Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Jodi Arias argues Nancy Grace stole her fair trial! What does Nancy say?

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Jodi Arias argues Nancy Grace stole her fair trial! What does Nancy say? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM
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Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one thirty two. After they met at a
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Speaker 1: work event, the world stopped steal. They dated, he broke up.
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Speaker 1: She did not accept that she traveled across the desert
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Speaker 1: with gas cands in her trunk so as not to
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Speaker 1: leave a trail at a gas station with a credit
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Speaker 1: card or an a t M. Showed up at his doorstep,
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Speaker 1: had a marathon day of sex, then stabbed him twenty
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Speaker 1: nine times and kept it off with a shot to
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Speaker 1: the head. And today she's blaming everybody him, his family,
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Speaker 1: the media. ME. I don't feel that special for her conviction.
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Speaker 1: I'm talking about none other than Jodi Arius. I Meancy Grace,
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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now along with Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer,
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Speaker 1: founder of child crime Watch dot com. Dr Brian Russell,
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Speaker 1: host of investigation discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows, renowned New
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Speaker 1: York psychologist here and Stark Alexis terres Chuck joining me
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Speaker 1: from Radar Online dot com. Alexis, I know you stayed
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Speaker 1: up through the night sifting through over four hundred and
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Speaker 1: thirty pages of appellate brief from Jody Arias. I mean,
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Speaker 1: isn't it pretty simple? Isn't her digital camera found in
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Speaker 1: his washing machine by police, with the wet laundry, with
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Speaker 1: photos of the crime as it happened, accidental photos? I mean,
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Speaker 1: and I'm missing something. According to Jody, what you're missing
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Speaker 1: is that this is all your fault, Nancy. Right off
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Speaker 1: the bat in this brief filed this is the first
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Speaker 1: time in three years we've heard from Jody, other than
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Speaker 1: finding out that she was buying things make sex stories
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Speaker 1: behind bars, is that she blames you, Nancy Grace, for
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Speaker 1: her getting what she says is an unfair trial. She
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Speaker 1: says that she did not kill Travis for any other
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Speaker 1: reason except for self defense. She goes through her excuses
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Speaker 1: for killing him. She has written, her attorneys have written
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Speaker 1: in this crazy brief that she finally found out that
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Speaker 1: Travis was a pedophile and then he abused her and
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Speaker 1: she shot him and doesn't remember stabbing him. But what
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Speaker 1: she says is it was the fault of the media,
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, who set up a remote television station one
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Speaker 1: block away from the court. That is a direct quote
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Speaker 1: from these papers, one block away, and you taunted the
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Speaker 1: defense every night on your show you are pro prosecution,
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Speaker 1: and that you you taunted her, and that this led
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Speaker 1: to the jurors believing everything that you were saying, including
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Speaker 1: their family members, and that is why she got an
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Speaker 1: unfair trial and why she deserves to have this verdict,
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Speaker 1: which is guilty guilty of first degree murder for stabbing him,
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Speaker 1: slitting his throat, and shooting him in the head. And
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Speaker 1: she believes that this should be thrown out because of you.
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Speaker 1: You know, that's always hardening to hear, but I think
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Speaker 1: it had more to do with the evidence. What is
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Speaker 1: unusual to me right now is that she is still
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Speaker 1: blaming Travis Alexander. I mean to you, Dodger. Brian Russell,
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Speaker 1: you're the shrink lawyer, aunts like coologist. Your specialty is
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Speaker 1: about fatal vows. Now they met, and it's interesting. I'm
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Speaker 1: gonna go to Karen Stark on this in a moment.
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Speaker 1: But all of his friends and family that knew her
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Speaker 1: did not want him to be with her that And
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Speaker 1: I've questioned them about that repeatedly, saying what was it
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Speaker 1: about her? And they all said, I don't know. It
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Speaker 1: was just a freaky, hinky feeling. She was just we
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Speaker 1: just thought she was weird and crazy. There was just
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Speaker 1: something about her, you know, Dr Brian Russell. She's many
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Speaker 1: people believe beautiful. She's got a beautiful face. Many people
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Speaker 1: think she's got a beautiful body. I don't find her beautiful,
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Speaker 1: but many people do. She's got tons of people writing
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Speaker 1: her and sending her money behind bars. The thing is
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Speaker 1: when Travis Alexander, who I understand at the time was
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Speaker 1: a devout Mormon, got tangled up with Jodi Arius. At
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Speaker 1: some point he wanted to break it off. He said
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Speaker 1: things like he did not think they would ever get married,
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Speaker 1: he wanted to start dating other people. She would have
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Speaker 1: none of it. So she finds out he's going on
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Speaker 1: a trip to Cosumel with another woman, and that just
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Speaker 1: throws her into a fit, drives literally across the desert.
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Speaker 1: She's moved away with all the gas cans in her
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Speaker 1: trunk so she doesn't have to stop to use her
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Speaker 1: credit card or beyond a surveillance video at A seven eleven,
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Speaker 1: gets to his home. They have crazy fetish sex all day,
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Speaker 1: complete with photos which were played over and over and
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Speaker 1: over at trial. And then he still refuses to cancel
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Speaker 1: the Cosumel date, and when that happens, she stabs him
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Speaker 1: twenty nine times and shoots him in the head, leaving
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Speaker 1: his body to decompose in the shower. Help me out,
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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, I'm glad you just gave that rundown, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: because one of the things that specifically said in this
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Speaker 1: appellate brief is that you had criticized this alleged expert
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Speaker 1: for the defense, this therapist whom I criticized also at
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Speaker 1: the time on the air, because she apparently knew nothing
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Speaker 1: about Travis Alexander or his relationship with Jodi Arias except
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Speaker 1: whatever Arius remember, a defendant facing the death penalty, somebody
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Speaker 1: highly motivated to lie had told her, Yet she goes
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Speaker 1: into court and she testifies that arius suffered from battered
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Speaker 1: woman's syndrome and PTSD. Let me just quickly address both
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Speaker 1: of those. First of all, I'm highly skeptical whenever I
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Speaker 1: hear battered woman's syndrome as a defense whereby women in
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Speaker 1: abusive relationships allegedly can't see any means of escape other
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Speaker 1: than killing the abuser alleged abuser, when in fact there
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Speaker 1: are alternative means of escape, calling fleeing, filing for divorce
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Speaker 1: for example. It's not a formally recognized diagnosis. It's not
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Speaker 1: supported by sound psychological data. Don't get me wrong, I
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Speaker 1: hate domestic violence, but the remedies not to allow an
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Speaker 1: alleged battered wife to be the judge, jury, and executioner
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Speaker 1: for the alleged batterer. You know, if she said she'd
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Speaker 1: killed him while he was beating her, there'd be a
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Speaker 1: self defense argument, but physical evidence from the scene clearly
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Speaker 1: suggested that didn't happen that way. I never saw solid
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Speaker 1: evidence that he'd ever beaten her. Then this PTSD thing,
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Speaker 1: which is, you know, a disordered psychological reaction to a
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Speaker 1: stressful event, that does not explain, in my opinion, the
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Speaker 1: gaps in her memory, alleged gaps for events surrounding the killing.
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Speaker 1: Killing somebody and claiming that the killing gave you PTSD
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Speaker 1: is like the Menendez brothers murdering their parents and then
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Speaker 1: crying about being orphaned. But more importantly, she recalled specifics
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Speaker 1: like what she ate and drank before and after, but
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Speaker 1: supposedly didn't remember the stabbing really well. Another thing regarding that,
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Speaker 1: let me address the better woman syndrome issue. When I
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Speaker 1: prosecuted Inner City, Atlanta, I also volunteered at the Batter
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Speaker 1: Women's Center, and it was a hidden location in Atlanta,
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Speaker 1: and I'm in the hotline. I firmly support the batter
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Speaker 1: Women's syndrome in many cases, this, however, is not one.
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Speaker 1: Let's just look at the facts. As you accurately point
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Speaker 1: out Dr. Brian Russell, there were many ways if it
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Speaker 1: were indeed true, which no one but Arias says. It's true.
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Speaker 1: They were broken up. She had moved away, hours away.
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Speaker 1: They were not living together. They were never married, they
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Speaker 1: never had children, nothing. They had a fling. He broke up,
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Speaker 1: she moved away, scorned, she left. She was living somewhere else,
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Speaker 1: had a brand new place to live, had a car
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Speaker 1: a job, the works, and they've been apart for a while.
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Speaker 1: How could this possibly be better women's syndrome when you
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Speaker 1: have no choice but to kill. While I do support
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Speaker 1: the batter women's syndrome as a defense, this, I agree
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Speaker 1: with you was not one of them. As a matter
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Speaker 1: of fact, I'm reading directly from the autopsy report. Travis
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Speaker 1: Saling's anders juggular vein. His throat was slit, the common
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Speaker 1: karnid artery, the trachea had been slashed. He had defensive
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Speaker 1: wounds on his hand. He may have even been dead
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Speaker 1: at the time she shot him in the head. Also,
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Speaker 1: the crime scene revealed that when he first was stabbed,
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Speaker 1: he realized he was dying, he stumbled to the bathroom
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Speaker 1: mirror and actually looked in the mirror as he was dying.
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Speaker 1: And we know this because of the blood evidence. There
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Speaker 1: were drops, not spatter, not throwback, not transfer, drops of
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Speaker 1: blood that dropped down from his neck and his nose
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Speaker 1: and his face onto the sink as he looked into
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Speaker 1: the mirror as he died, and he was left naked
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Speaker 1: and bloody, bleeding out in the shower. As a matter
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Speaker 1: of fact, it's really not even contested how he died,
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Speaker 1: listened to Jodi Arius at trial admitting she slit his throat.
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Speaker 1: Would you agree that you're the person who actually slit
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Speaker 1: Mr Alexander's throat? From here to here, yes, to Ashley
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Speaker 1: will Cut, veteran trial lawyer and judge, It gives me
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Speaker 1: no pleasure to replay the rendition of how Travis Alexander
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Speaker 1: was murdered. He didn't see it coming, He had no
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Speaker 1: idea what was about to happen. But we also know
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Speaker 1: Ashley that at the beginning she claimed that she wasn't there,
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Speaker 1: she had nothing to do with it at all. Then
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Speaker 1: when evidence turned up that she had been there, she
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Speaker 1: actually claimed that Ninja's showed up all dressed in black
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Speaker 1: and for no reason, burst into the home, stole nothing.
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Speaker 1: She ran and saved her in life, but they killed
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Speaker 1: Travis and left like shadows in the night. I mean, Ashley, really,
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Speaker 1: really so she was lying from the get go, obviously
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Speaker 1: with the story that she initially told with the ninjas.
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Speaker 1: But here's what I love about our justice system. During
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Speaker 1: this trial, it went from story to story to story
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Speaker 1: to story. But as you just played, finally on the
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Speaker 1: stand under oath, she admits she slit his throat period. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and it just like this and just like that, and
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Speaker 1: then shot him, cleaned up the scene as best she could,
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Speaker 1: put a lot of clothes in the washer, including her
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Speaker 1: digital camera. Hello, And on the camera, to Karen Stark
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Speaker 1: were actual photos. They had been She had been taking
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Speaker 1: sex photos the whole day. Okay, but forget about that.
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Speaker 1: On the digital camera that she left in the washing machine,
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Speaker 1: our photos we think accidentally taken during Travis's murder. Karen Starr,
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Speaker 1: New York psychologist, what about that? Well, I mean, here's
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Speaker 1: somebody who says that she's suffering from PTSD and she
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Speaker 1: can't remember anything, but she's cleaning up, she took photos.
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Speaker 1: And this is a person who really is not only
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Speaker 1: a pathological liar, but has absolutely no guilt about anything
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Speaker 1: that happened and documented it as do it as it
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Speaker 1: was happening. Now, even if it was accidental, somehow she
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Speaker 1: knew that she should wash things up, clean them up,
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Speaker 1: despite the ninjas or whatever she was saying. And she
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Speaker 1: very clearly is a psychopath who committed this murder. There
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Speaker 1: is no doubt in my mind that she knew exactly
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Speaker 1: what she was doing and that it had to do
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Speaker 1: with rage, and jealousy and her inability to let go
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Speaker 1: of this man. Alexis Torres Chuck writer online dot com.
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Speaker 1: You also covered the case every single day. I was
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Speaker 1: in the courtroom almost every day and was broadcasting from
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Speaker 1: a couple of blocks away from the courthouse. The digital
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Speaker 1: camera evidence, to me is overwhelming. It places her there
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Speaker 1: at the time of the murder, in the room with Travis.
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Speaker 1: It does it's right up to and after she murders him.
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Speaker 1: There's there are pictures of him naked in the shower,
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Speaker 1: got the water running over him. He's looking directly at
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Speaker 1: the camera. These were not secret photos that he didn't
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Speaker 1: know were being taken. Then there's the picture of his
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Speaker 1: foot in the shower, and there's another picture of the
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Speaker 1: blood on the floor, and they're taking there's a time stamp,
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Speaker 1: so you can tell that they were taken just moments,
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Speaker 1: literally less than two minutes after he was alive in
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Speaker 1: the shower. She's taking pictures, and then he's dead. She
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Speaker 1: when she went into her friend z her spree killing
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Speaker 1: spree and stabbed him repeatedly. And the thing was it
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Speaker 1: she also shot him, but the bullet casing was found
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Speaker 1: on top of the blood. So what The evidence was
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Speaker 1: presented in court is that there's no way she shot
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Speaker 1: him first, otherwise that would be on the bottom and
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Speaker 1: be covered with blood. It happened afterwards, and it wasn't disturbed.
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Speaker 1: And this is everything that was shown on her camera.
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Speaker 1: Didn't take the camera with her, She stuck it in
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Speaker 1: the washing machine. She left it there. It was so
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Speaker 1: easy for everybody to find. One particular photograph is very convincing.
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Speaker 1: It is accidentally taken as Jodi Arius drags Travis's body
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Speaker 1: and it shows blood running down his neck. According to
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Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the prosecution actually displayed a very disturbing photo
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Speaker 1: they say was accidentally taken as she dragged Travis's body
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Speaker 1: through his home after stabbing him twenty nine times. Now,
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Speaker 1: the dark image, and I'm looking at it right now, Jackie.
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Speaker 1: Here it is that's of Travis, and it's of the
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Speaker 1: back of his head, part of his back and his arm,
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Speaker 1: and there's a blood pouring down his back, and there's
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Speaker 1: an obstruction in the foreground, and it is a leg
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Speaker 1: wearing sweatpants. So but what you do see is Travis's
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Speaker 1: body being dragged across the floor, covered in blood going
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Speaker 1: down his back. I mean Dr Brian Russell. It's on
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Speaker 1: her camera. How can you get away from the fact
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Speaker 1: that her own admission and her camera convicted her, not
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Speaker 1: me or anybody else. Well, that's right. It's crystal clear
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Speaker 1: to me that the evidence does not support any kind
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Speaker 1: of a self defense battered woman, any kind of argument
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Speaker 1: like that. The evidence is totally consistent with a woman
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Speaker 1: who felt narcissist entitlement to literally administer the death penalty
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Speaker 1: to a man who had scorned her. In her mind,
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Speaker 1: he'll have no fury like a woman. Scoring This case
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Speaker 1: certainly proves that. But you know, the overall thing about
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Speaker 1: this appeal that jumps out at me is that there's
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Speaker 1: allegation after allegation of media coverage biasing the public in it.
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Speaker 1: But it really doesn't even effectively allege how that media
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Speaker 1: coverage biased the jury, at least not in any identifiable way.
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Speaker 1: So I'm really not sure what the beef is with
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Speaker 1: not getting a fair trial because of the media coverage.
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Speaker 1: There's really no nexus in this appeal between the media
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Speaker 1: coverage and and reaching the jury. And if you think
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Speaker 1: about it, she didn't get the worst outcomes she could
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Speaker 1: have gotten, which you'd think was is what would have
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Speaker 1: happened if the jury had been so profoundly biased, you know,
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Speaker 1: to as she will caught a nearly four well four
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Speaker 1: hundred plus page brief. I mean, what about that? So, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I stayed up last night and read the entire brief
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Speaker 1: because I was astounded at the length of it, the
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Speaker 1: facts that were in it. But let's boil it down
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Speaker 1: to this. The press coverage was inconsequential to the verdict,
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Speaker 1: a fundamental constitutional right, First Amendment right. Media has to
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Speaker 1: report right freedom of speech. And what really bothers me
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Speaker 1: in this case is, here is a defendant, Jody actually
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Speaker 1: is one who has consistently used her First Amendment right
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Speaker 1: freedom to speech to her benefit, and then she wants
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Speaker 1: to accuse the press of doing it in a way
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Speaker 1: that has um affected prejudice the jury. And I agree
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Speaker 1: completely that nexus isn't there. Well, Ashley, I'll always have
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Speaker 1: our time in court together when she shot a bird
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Speaker 1: at me. We'll always have Arizona, my happy memories of
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Speaker 1: Jody Arius. But you know what, I have to say
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Speaker 1: that I've met an American Idol, because Jodi Aris did
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Speaker 1: win American Idol. Behind bars, take a listen, Oh holy
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Speaker 1: name get started. Did a Tampa woman try and manipulate
19:48
Speaker 1: her daughter's face into a smile after she allegedly shoots
19:54
Speaker 1: the daughter and her teen brother dead. This in a
20:00
Speaker 1: articulously planned double murder. This mom, Julie Shinneker, living in
20:09
Speaker 1: a beautiful upscale home, a mansion. When you look at
20:14
Speaker 1: the overhead aerial shot of it, you see a pool
20:17
Speaker 1: in the backyard, manicured green lawn, everything you could imagine
20:24
Speaker 1: at the tip of your fingers. Why, why are these
20:28
Speaker 1: two children dead? And why is she conniving to walk free?
20:34
Speaker 1: With me? An all star lineup? Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert,
20:37
Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University and author of
20:42
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet. Renowned New York psychologist here and Stark,
20:46
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, founder of Child Crime Watch dot com, judge
20:50
Speaker 1: and lawyer, Atlanta prosecutor Kenya Johnson, and joining me now
20:55
Speaker 1: w f L A TV reporter Meredith and Sulo Meredith.
20:59
Speaker 1: First two, you explain to me what police have learned.
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Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning with the death of the
21:05
Speaker 1: little girl and teen boy. Colonel Parker Sheneger was serving
21:10
Speaker 1: overseas he was stationed in Cutter and was unable to
21:14
Speaker 1: reach his family. He flew back to the United States
21:17
Speaker 1: and went to his home in New Tampa, very nice
21:21
Speaker 1: neighborhood in Tampa, and walked into the home and couldn't
21:25
Speaker 1: find anyone. He goes searching throughout the home and in
21:29
Speaker 1: an upstairs bedroom he finds his sixteen year old daughter, Klix,
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Speaker 1: very well performing childhood school, involved in sports. But she
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Speaker 1: was found well, wait a minute, she was a straight
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Speaker 1: A student, she was a star athlete. I mean, I'm
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Speaker 1: looking at the pictures of the two children right now,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, and they're beautiful. They obviously have had braces
21:53
Speaker 1: on their teeth. They live in a beautiful home. And
21:56
Speaker 1: what I find really significant about the death of Kaelix
22:00
Speaker 1: the girl, the little girl, she's propped up. She had
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Speaker 1: been propped up at her computer doing her homework, Ashley
22:06
Speaker 1: in that bazaar. And so you're right, this is a
22:08
Speaker 1: case in which these are kids that any one of
22:11
Speaker 1: us might see our our kids hanging out with and
22:14
Speaker 1: friends of and doing well in school and doing well.
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Speaker 1: So how bizarre's this happens? And then she's propped up
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Speaker 1: like that, pretty sick go ahead, Meridith Sinceolo so Calix
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Speaker 1: was actually found propped up in bed. She had been
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Speaker 1: shot in the back of her head and uh, and
22:28
Speaker 1: she was located in a bedroom away from where she'd
22:31
Speaker 1: been shot. Colonel Sheneker then finds his son, thirteen year
22:35
Speaker 1: old bow I want to I want to go back
22:38
Speaker 1: to what you just said, Meredith Cincelo. That's really significant
22:41
Speaker 1: and the crime scene, Meridue Cinceolo had just corrected me.
22:45
Speaker 1: The body had been moved away from the computer. She's right,
22:49
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, what does that mean to you that
22:53
Speaker 1: the mother took care rearranging things and kind of point
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Speaker 1: out one thing that's really key here. When they found
23:01
Speaker 1: this young girl's body reclined on the bed, her body
23:04
Speaker 1: was actually covered with a blanket. It was actually the
23:08
Speaker 1: face was actually covered. And this is something that we
23:11
Speaker 1: see in cases like this where if an individual is
23:15
Speaker 1: known where they have a personal relationship, is called face covering.
23:19
Speaker 1: They don't want to be able to look into the
23:20
Speaker 1: eyes of the individual they've perpetrated this crime with. That
23:23
Speaker 1: is signal. Take a listen to Colonel Parker Scheneger as
23:26
Speaker 1: he's describing the conversation he had with his wife just
23:29
Speaker 1: before he left for Afghanistan. I reminded her leaving in
23:33
Speaker 1: a few days. Just wanted to make sure that everything
23:36
Speaker 1: was okay. Um, are you gonna be okay with me
23:38
Speaker 1: being gone for a couple of weeks? What did the
23:42
Speaker 1: defendants saying? Well? And then I added on to that,
23:44
Speaker 1: I said, if there's a problem, I can I can
23:46
Speaker 1: ask Nancy to come in, or I can I can
23:47
Speaker 1: find someone else to come in. The defendant at that
23:50
Speaker 1: time look at me square in the iron and said
23:52
Speaker 1: I got this. So that to me is in Stark
23:55
Speaker 1: contrast here and start New York psychologists with what we
23:58
Speaker 1: know was said later, But because the mother, Julie Schinneker,
24:02
Speaker 1: states that she backhanded her daughter in the face for
24:06
Speaker 1: quote being mauthi, the daughter says something like, you're not
24:10
Speaker 1: my parent. You discussed me, okay. I would have been
24:13
Speaker 1: mad about that too. I don't know if I would
24:14
Speaker 1: have slapped him in the face. Though, Karen Stark, you
24:17
Speaker 1: want to slap them in the face and you want
24:19
Speaker 1: to kill them Nancy, I mean that's extreme. Yes, you
24:23
Speaker 1: have to deal with teenagers and adolescents who begin to
24:27
Speaker 1: talk back and have issues, but this is a case
24:30
Speaker 1: of somebody who couldn't deal with the situation and took
24:35
Speaker 1: matters into her own hands. As Joe Scott Morgan said,
24:39
Speaker 1: this is somebody who was treated, her body was staged,
24:43
Speaker 1: and that happens in a situation where you have a
24:46
Speaker 1: personal relationship and despite the fact that you killed the person,
24:50
Speaker 1: you're still caring enough to want to cover their face,
24:54
Speaker 1: to put a blanket over them. That there's a personal
24:56
Speaker 1: involvement here, you know. I want to revisit a that
25:00
Speaker 1: scenario with me from w f L a TV investigative
25:03
Speaker 1: journalists Meritis and Sulo. I want to because this is
25:07
Speaker 1: very significant about how Calix's body is found. What is
25:13
Speaker 1: the scenario police have have put together as to how
25:16
Speaker 1: the teen girl was killed. What they found was that
25:19
Speaker 1: Calix had been shot from behind in her head was
25:23
Speaker 1: then shot in her mouth because as you as we've
25:27
Speaker 1: mentioned Um Julie schenek Er, her mother was upset she
25:30
Speaker 1: felt like her children were becoming mouthi children, so she
25:34
Speaker 1: also shot Calix in the mouth. After she had shot
25:38
Speaker 1: the child in the head at some point, she then
25:41
Speaker 1: relocated the sixteen year old body into a bedroom and
25:45
Speaker 1: then covered the child. And what we believe now is
25:48
Speaker 1: that she also tried to cut a smile onto Kylix's face,
25:54
Speaker 1: onto her mouth. That's how how the daughter was found dead.
25:58
Speaker 1: What about the sun Bow? Thirteen year old Bow was
26:02
Speaker 1: found in the family's vehicle. It appears that he also
26:06
Speaker 1: had been shot in the back of the head and
26:09
Speaker 1: in his mouth. He was bending down to move some
26:12
Speaker 1: soccer equipment around. They were actually on their way to
26:15
Speaker 1: soccer practice. It hadn't even gotten out of the driveway
26:19
Speaker 1: when Julie Scheneker pulled out a gun and shot him
26:23
Speaker 1: as he was leaning down, shot him in the back
26:25
Speaker 1: of the head and then also shot him in his mouth.
26:28
Speaker 1: His body was left in the vehicle. Joe Scott Morgan,
26:32
Speaker 1: death investigator, You and I have seen so many crimes scenes,
26:36
Speaker 1: so many homicides. There's something about this case. It just
26:40
Speaker 1: it just makes me sick in the bottom of my stomach.
26:43
Speaker 1: I mean it feels that way about all of the
26:45
Speaker 1: cases that we cover, especially the ones regarding children. But
26:49
Speaker 1: this case, I mean these children, Yeah, they're a couple
26:53
Speaker 1: of years older. They remind me so much of John
26:57
Speaker 1: David and Lucy. Yeah, and that's the tragedy here, because
27:02
Speaker 1: it's not just the case itself, Nancy, is not just
27:05
Speaker 1: their brutal homicides. It's the fact that these kids were
27:10
Speaker 1: living I think, in my opinion, at least from what
27:12
Speaker 1: we're piecing together, in a tortured environment. Um, torturous just
27:18
Speaker 1: day in and day out. There's evidence that that this
27:23
Speaker 1: person had been detailing in a diary the wrongs that
27:29
Speaker 1: her children had done to her. Uh and oh, hold on,
27:32
Speaker 1: hold on just a moment. You're right, Joe Scott Morgan
27:35
Speaker 1: too meritis. Since ulo w f L, a t V
27:38
Speaker 1: investigative journalist, tell me about the diary the journal Joe
27:43
Speaker 1: Scott referred to. That's right, Um, Julie Senneker was keeping
27:47
Speaker 1: a diary, and she would repeatedly right in that diary
27:51
Speaker 1: that her children were mouthy and that she wanted to
27:56
Speaker 1: m basically silence them, get rid of these children that
28:00
Speaker 1: she felt were in some way turning against her. Uh.
28:03
Speaker 1: It appears now that her husband was starting to pull
28:07
Speaker 1: away from her, and she had the impression also that
28:11
Speaker 1: her children were pulling away from her, that they were
28:14
Speaker 1: becoming mouthie, and she wanted to silence them. She wanted
28:18
Speaker 1: to to stop this. Um in her own warped mind.
28:21
Speaker 1: I think she she felt like, uh, if they were
28:24
Speaker 1: going to pull away from her, she was going to
28:26
Speaker 1: make sure that didn't happen. And she was also going
28:28
Speaker 1: to make make sure that they would never be able
28:31
Speaker 1: to mouse back to her again. And this is this
28:35
Speaker 1: is what she did, and this is what she detailed
28:37
Speaker 1: in the diary, including following their murders, detailing exactly what
28:42
Speaker 1: she had done to the children. Right now, mother of
28:45
Speaker 1: two Julie Shaneker planning, conniving, scheming to walk free. This
28:52
Speaker 1: after both of her children, Bow and Calix, found dead
28:56
Speaker 1: by gunshot wounds in their multimillion dollar home. Married Cincelo
29:00
Speaker 1: joining me w f L a t V investigative journalists.
29:04
Speaker 1: You know this mother had it all, Meredith, I mean,
29:10
Speaker 1: describe their lifestyle. She was a very brilliant woman. She
29:14
Speaker 1: was in the military, she had become a translator. She
29:19
Speaker 1: was career military. Her husband, Um was doing very well,
29:24
Speaker 1: also a member of the military. That the neighborhood that
29:27
Speaker 1: they lived in here in New Tampa, very beautiful homes,
29:30
Speaker 1: very nice neighborhood. Um, they had everything that they could
29:34
Speaker 1: ever ask for. The children did very well. We've mentioned
29:38
Speaker 1: that they both were straight A students, they were involved
29:42
Speaker 1: in sports, great members um within their schools um and
29:47
Speaker 1: all of that, it appears um led up to her
29:52
Speaker 1: murdering the children in what clearly was premeditated, down to
29:57
Speaker 1: her going out and purchasing a gun, um eating the
30:01
Speaker 1: weight period later saying that oh, I was just going
30:04
Speaker 1: to commit suicide with that. Many people have argued that
30:07
Speaker 1: the mother just snapped. But take a listen to Generald Tanso,
30:12
Speaker 1: who owns Lock and Load gun store. This is where
30:15
Speaker 1: Julie Scheneker buys the murder weapon before she murders her children,
30:21
Speaker 1: and then try to tell me this was not a
30:23
Speaker 1: calculated plan. Listen, she was an average person, easy going,
30:30
Speaker 1: very nice, smiling, happy and just a normal normal customer
30:36
Speaker 1: too for us. Anyways, you know, did she tell you
30:38
Speaker 1: why she felt she needed a gun. Um? She said
30:42
Speaker 1: she needed a weapon because there was some crime in
30:44
Speaker 1: her neighborhood. Now we're Julie Senneker's hands shaking when she
30:50
Speaker 1: came into the store. No, she was not. She was
30:54
Speaker 1: not shaking at all. She had a very slight shaker
30:56
Speaker 1: in one of her hands. But that's more. With a
30:58
Speaker 1: lot of people that come to the shop, a lot
31:01
Speaker 1: of older people shake, I mean nothing to be alarmed
31:04
Speaker 1: the boat. You know. So, when when you sold Julie
31:07
Speaker 1: Schinniker the murder weapon, did you have any reason to
31:10
Speaker 1: believe she had a mental illness, that she was insane,
31:14
Speaker 1: that she was drunk or high, any raising you felt
31:17
Speaker 1: you should not sell her a gun? Not at all,
31:20
Speaker 1: not at all. In fact, did you find it unusual
31:23
Speaker 1: for a woman to be buying a gun. We saw
31:27
Speaker 1: guns to women every day, and again we kind of gun.
31:31
Speaker 1: What kind of gun did you say she bought? Was
31:34
Speaker 1: a Smith and Wesson bodyguard? And did she buy ammunition?
31:40
Speaker 1: She bought ammunition? To correct when she left? What was
31:45
Speaker 1: her demeanor? Um, she was very nice, very very good,
31:49
Speaker 1: very personable, smiling, happy. In fact, is Tennis, she shake
31:54
Speaker 1: your hand when she left. That was on the day
31:57
Speaker 1: of the pickup. Yeah, that was on took my hands
32:01
Speaker 1: and goodbye and everything was fine. That is Gerald Tan
32:03
Speaker 1: says speaking to me on hl And, the owner of
32:06
Speaker 1: Lock and Load gun shop in Tampa, and he talks
32:09
Speaker 1: about interacting with Julie Schinneker the day she bought the
32:13
Speaker 1: murder weapon she then used to kill her children. Mary's
32:16
Speaker 1: Ceceilio W F L A. T. V. Meredith, tell me
32:20
Speaker 1: what you know about her purchase of the murder weapon. Well,
32:23
Speaker 1: she had complained that she had to wait. She didn't
32:27
Speaker 1: like that there was a three day waiting period. That's
32:30
Speaker 1: what she wrote in her journal, because she had said,
32:33
Speaker 1: I wanted this to be a Saturday massacre. She wanted
32:37
Speaker 1: to allegedly kill the children and herself on a particular day,
32:42
Speaker 1: and she was upset that that could not happen because
32:45
Speaker 1: she had to wait to get the gun. So do
32:48
Speaker 1: you hear this, Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor. She goes, she
32:53
Speaker 1: makes a trip to buy the gun, the murder weapon.
32:55
Speaker 1: She has the wherewithal to complain, and she doesn't went
32:58
Speaker 1: away because it's messing up her plan in for a
33:00
Speaker 1: Saturday massacre. How could she possibly claim insanity on a
33:06
Speaker 1: case that was so well planned. Absolutely, we're looking at premeditation,
33:10
Speaker 1: we're looking at knowledge of wrongdoing. Um. She clearly documented
33:15
Speaker 1: her actions this. The public would be amazed at how
33:18
Speaker 1: many instances where people tell on themselves. She carefully thought
33:22
Speaker 1: this out and even had the nerve to be angry
33:25
Speaker 1: and upset about it. We have the apple thought so
33:28
Speaker 1: to come back and say that she was insane at
33:30
Speaker 1: the time that she committed the offense. Uh, and that
33:33
Speaker 1: this was a missed opportunity for a defense to exonerate
33:37
Speaker 1: her is a stretch and unlikely to prevail in that
33:40
Speaker 1: motion for nutraal right now, Julie shannonker Scheming, conniving, plotting
33:45
Speaker 1: to walk free, her two children dead, Maritus Cecilo w
33:51
Speaker 1: f l A TV. What about the death the details
33:54
Speaker 1: of the death, the shooting death of the little boy
33:57
Speaker 1: Beau So he was shot in the family vehicle, UM
34:01
Speaker 1: on his way to soccer practice. Julie was to take
34:03
Speaker 1: him to soccer practice. They had just gotten in the vehicle.
34:06
Speaker 1: He leaned over, apparently to adjust some of his gear,
34:11
Speaker 1: and that's when she actually pulled out the gun and
34:14
Speaker 1: shot him. And there was some testimony in the courtroom
34:17
Speaker 1: that perhaps Uh he had noticed that she had pulled
34:22
Speaker 1: out a gun and and that comes from her journal. UM.
34:25
Speaker 1: And she did shoot him in the head, also shot
34:28
Speaker 1: him in the mouth, then left his body in the
34:30
Speaker 1: vehicle because apparently she was unable to UM carry his
34:35
Speaker 1: his body into the home and then placed him upstairs.
34:39
Speaker 1: UM and do as she did with Kaylix, where UH
34:43
Speaker 1: cover him with UM with his blankets, put him in
34:45
Speaker 1: his bed. Um his body was left in the vehicle,
34:48
Speaker 1: but he did die the same way as his older
34:50
Speaker 1: sister did. Know that the boy didn't even see it coming.
34:53
Speaker 1: Can we determine that, just Scott Morgan, Uh, yeah, this
34:57
Speaker 1: this the speaks volumes to her planning. And if we
35:01
Speaker 1: if you just go back and look at the daughter,
35:03
Speaker 1: you know, how did they determine that? Well, a lot
35:06
Speaker 1: of blood spatter evidence probably, remember they talked about how
35:09
Speaker 1: she was in a chair and then she was moved
35:11
Speaker 1: to the bed. My thought is is that the investigators
35:15
Speaker 1: at the scene, when they began to look at this
35:17
Speaker 1: young man's body, they could tell the attitude that he
35:20
Speaker 1: was in. Now, just as Meredith mentioned, this lady had
35:23
Speaker 1: documented in her diary that he had an awareness potentially,
35:27
Speaker 1: and that adds a whole another level of heart to
35:30
Speaker 1: this Nancy when you think about it, he saw his
35:32
Speaker 1: mama draw a gun on him. If that is in
35:35
Speaker 1: fact the case, I don't know. You know, Uh, this
35:38
Speaker 1: lady seems to document everything, which you know, and my
35:42
Speaker 1: mind goes to intent and planning and all these sorts
35:44
Speaker 1: of things, and then she shoots this young man in
35:46
Speaker 1: the back of the head. I don't think she's surprised him.
35:49
Speaker 1: I think that there was something rolling up to this.
35:52
Speaker 1: There was something leading up to this, and again just
35:55
Speaker 1: this horrific environment these kids had to live in. Well,
35:57
Speaker 1: apparently she claimed they were mouthy. What does that mean, Meredith, Well,
36:01
Speaker 1: she had been writing in her journal that she felt
36:03
Speaker 1: like they had started talking, you know, talking back to her. Um.
36:07
Speaker 1: She noticed that there was an email apparently sent from
36:11
Speaker 1: their father to the children that she was not allowed
36:15
Speaker 1: to see uh as she perhaps thought that he was
36:19
Speaker 1: planning to leave with the children. Um. We don't know
36:23
Speaker 1: the contents of that email, but I guess in her
36:26
Speaker 1: mind she was developing this concept that the family was
36:31
Speaker 1: leaving her and perhaps they were getting mouth dear to her,
36:35
Speaker 1: and she was going to stop all of that. However,
36:38
Speaker 1: she did write in her journal after she had killed
36:41
Speaker 1: the children, UM, that her and Bow were going to
36:44
Speaker 1: have it uh and that maybe Calix would join her there.
36:49
Speaker 1: She had a very bad relationship with Calix as as
36:52
Speaker 1: we learned in the testimony at the trial, but she
36:55
Speaker 1: was still had a decent relationship with her son Um
36:59
Speaker 1: and so again she felt like the two of them
37:01
Speaker 1: would go to heaven together. And you know, perhaps Calix
37:05
Speaker 1: would join them there as well, right because the little
37:08
Speaker 1: girl is the bad one. Right now, what can you
37:10
Speaker 1: tell me, Meridith Cecilo about de facts previously being in
37:14
Speaker 1: the home one time after an incident where Kaelix stated
37:19
Speaker 1: to other people that her mom had backhanded her, right,
37:23
Speaker 1: and there were details of that that came out during
37:26
Speaker 1: the court trial that Calix had complained that her mother
37:30
Speaker 1: had backhanded her for being mouthie um because there were
37:35
Speaker 1: no other documented efforts or or a history of the
37:42
Speaker 1: family needing assistance. Uh. That was one of those things
37:46
Speaker 1: that was added to a long file um of Julie
37:51
Speaker 1: Scheneker's actions, not necessarily her actions in regards to musing
37:55
Speaker 1: her children, but her history of behavior that seemed to
38:01
Speaker 1: be um essentially bipolar, very manic, very highs and lows,
38:06
Speaker 1: and there was a growing concern over her behavior. Julie
38:11
Speaker 1: Seneger had a history of chronic mental illness and it
38:18
Speaker 1: appeared that her family noticed so that she was literally
38:24
Speaker 1: coming off the rails. Um. There were concerns within the
38:26
Speaker 1: family about her mental health and all of that, it
38:31
Speaker 1: appears um led up to behavior that seemed to be
38:36
Speaker 1: turning more towards abusing her children. Julie Schenneker, now conniving
38:42
Speaker 1: to walk free after both of her children found dead
38:45
Speaker 1: in their luxurious Tampa home, We learned that she kept
38:49
Speaker 1: a very detailed journal. It reveals chilling information about the
38:56
Speaker 1: murders of her two children. In the hours after police
38:59
Speaker 1: say she murder her children, She then, after she murders them,
39:03
Speaker 1: picks up a pen and confesses an a spiral bound notebook.
39:09
Speaker 1: She said, quote, I oft bow in the van often.
39:16
Speaker 1: He's thirteen years old. I mean, josephs got Morgan forensics expert.
39:21
Speaker 1: I offed him. That's mob talk. I mean, why would
39:24
Speaker 1: you refer to your son that way? I don't know,
39:26
Speaker 1: it sounds like an episode of the Sopranos. You know,
39:29
Speaker 1: I'm no psychologist, but it sounds like she's gotten to
39:32
Speaker 1: the point where she's just it's about the mission she's on,
39:35
Speaker 1: and she's completely detached herself from from, you know, any
39:39
Speaker 1: kind of compassion towards these children, even though she's saying
39:42
Speaker 1: that he's gonna, you know, he's he's gonna join her
39:45
Speaker 1: in in heaven. Uh, that's you know, who cares? Who
39:50
Speaker 1: cares at this point? But what we do care about
39:53
Speaker 1: is what kind of picture this paints. She's gone into
39:56
Speaker 1: great details. She's playing this thing. She's even talked about
39:59
Speaker 1: being angry about the waiting period to be able to
40:02
Speaker 1: purchase his hand. Listen to this, Listen to this. Joe,
40:05
Speaker 1: Scott and Karen start weigh in. She says, quote off
40:09
Speaker 1: the bow in the van, she shot him at close
40:12
Speaker 1: range into it was into the son's head. The next
40:15
Speaker 1: shot was to the mouth. Quote he is mouthy mouth. Karen,
40:20
Speaker 1: you know, this is the case where she may have
40:22
Speaker 1: been bipolar, but there's no doubt, according to the law,
40:26
Speaker 1: that she knew the difference between right and wrong. So
40:29
Speaker 1: she set up a paranoid case where these kids are
40:33
Speaker 1: working against her and knew exactly what she was doing,
40:36
Speaker 1: and then confess to all of it. So there is
40:39
Speaker 1: no way that she can prove insanity in this case.
40:43
Speaker 1: It doesn't I can't imagine that she'll ever be able
40:46
Speaker 1: to get away with that too. Kenya Johnson, Atlanta felony prosecutor.
40:50
Speaker 1: Apparently Schenniker's notebook um depicts her her own notebook as
40:55
Speaker 1: a woman furious who vented out all of her anger
41:01
Speaker 1: onto her family, including her two children. She had been
41:05
Speaker 1: about ten years career in the military. She loved it
41:08
Speaker 1: to raise her two children, and then became angry, furious
41:12
Speaker 1: at Keelix and Bou for becoming quote her words, is
41:15
Speaker 1: not mine, sassy, so she killed them. Daniel, I'm so
41:19
Speaker 1: glad that my parents didn't take the stand. Teenagers are
41:22
Speaker 1: known to be mouthy, and this is nothing out of
41:25
Speaker 1: the ordinary. But the answer is not to murder your
41:28
Speaker 1: own children, even if you hope to meet them again
41:31
Speaker 1: in the afterlife under different circumstances. That's the only insane
41:35
Speaker 1: part about that rationale. However, the fact that she plotted,
41:39
Speaker 1: she documented, she took substantial steps towards committing this crime.
41:43
Speaker 1: She researched how to do this or what is the
41:46
Speaker 1: best way to to kill her children. Um, these are
41:49
Speaker 1: all things that can be used against her in court,
41:52
Speaker 1: and we're likely used against her and shows that she
41:55
Speaker 1: had this intense um this and I can see that
41:59
Speaker 1: the jury would not be very sympathetic or a judge
42:02
Speaker 1: because anyone that has a child has had a mouthew
42:04
Speaker 1: teenager or knows of one, and that's just not the
42:07
Speaker 1: way to deal with this. UM. With child protective services
42:12
Speaker 1: being involved with some allegations of perhaps some abuse. This
42:16
Speaker 1: shows that she may have been uh separating from reality
42:20
Speaker 1: to an extent, but not quite to the extent that
42:23
Speaker 1: it justifies murder of her own children. This is very
42:25
Speaker 1: egregious and shocking to the public. You know. Another issue is,
42:29
Speaker 1: although she murdered both of her children, the girl killing specifically,
42:35
Speaker 1: this mom is so angry at her daughter for criticizing
42:38
Speaker 1: what she makes for dinner, maybe the clothes she wears,
42:41
Speaker 1: or her behavior. I don't know what this means. I'm
42:45
Speaker 1: sure aren't shrank. Karen Stark can weigh in on it,
42:48
Speaker 1: but I don't like it when the children talk back
42:51
Speaker 1: to me. On the other hand, I don't get crazy
42:54
Speaker 1: about it because I'm glad they have their own mind.
42:57
Speaker 1: I'm glad they're independent. I mean, I don't like them
43:00
Speaker 1: talking back to me, but I really take it with
43:03
Speaker 1: a box of salt. Children are not going to agree
43:05
Speaker 1: with their parents. They're growing up. As much as I
43:09
Speaker 1: don't like it, they are and it's just one of
43:13
Speaker 1: the obstacles you face it. It's part of the package
43:16
Speaker 1: of raising children. According to Julie Shinneker, she described how
43:24
Speaker 1: she snuck up behind her daughter while her straight. A
43:27
Speaker 1: daughter was at the computer doing homework, murdering her giving
43:32
Speaker 1: Calix the quote saying treatment she had given her son
43:35
Speaker 1: one bullet to the head and one bullet to the mouth.
43:38
Speaker 1: You know what that you don't need me to tell you.
43:40
Speaker 1: Listen to Julie Schenneker herself, ABC News Tampa. This young
43:46
Speaker 1: thing around her came up and went through the ceiling
43:53
Speaker 1: and then I picked her up and put her in
43:56
Speaker 1: bed and cover it up. And I got her up
44:01
Speaker 1: and I hugged her, and um she didn't hug me back.
44:07
Speaker 1: And I laid her down and I kissed her goodnight,
44:11
Speaker 1: and I covered her up. And then I realized I
44:14
Speaker 1: forgot to cover up bow and it was January, so
44:17
Speaker 1: I went and got a blanket and I covered him
44:19
Speaker 1: up and kissed him good night. And I didn't see
44:23
Speaker 1: any blood at all at all. After hearing evidence at trial,
44:29
Speaker 1: take a listen to what a Chinnaker Grard tells me
44:34
Speaker 1: hln Well. The eviness was actually kind of overwhelming, particularly
44:38
Speaker 1: the journal. The journal was this kind of feel with
44:41
Speaker 1: a lot of hate. Um Well filled out a lot
44:46
Speaker 1: of it. You can tell her she actually was playing
44:49
Speaker 1: in quite a ways out exactly what she was going
44:51
Speaker 1: to do it and how she was going to do it. Um, Yeah,
44:56
Speaker 1: the defense can never prove. Yeah, the sanity plead that
45:01
Speaker 1: she didn't know right from wrong. And that's really the
45:03
Speaker 1: biggest thing. The whole thing was this kind of a
45:05
Speaker 1: whole said said. After the stunning guilty verdicts, we are
45:11
Speaker 1: now learning that Julie Schinneker has no regrets, no regrets
45:18
Speaker 1: whatsoever about murdering her two children, according to People Magazine,
45:25
Speaker 1: a jaw dropping discovery. After Julie Shinneker says she would
45:31
Speaker 1: do the same thing all over again, she was asked
45:35
Speaker 1: if she regretted the shooting, and she says, no, I
45:39
Speaker 1: saved them. She also claims that the gun that she
45:43
Speaker 1: purchased was for suicide, not to hurt her children, that
45:46
Speaker 1: she only meant to kill herself, not them. Funny how
45:50
Speaker 1: it always turns out that way, Karen Stark, I knew
45:52
Speaker 1: you were going to say that, Nancy, because we hear
45:54
Speaker 1: so many stories where people say I bought this gun.
45:58
Speaker 1: I maybe I was going to kill them, but I
46:00
Speaker 1: was definitely going to kill me. And yet they don't
46:03
Speaker 1: wind up shooting themselves. Miraculously, they managed to survive and
46:08
Speaker 1: kill off their families. So I don't buy that for
46:12
Speaker 1: a second that she bought the gun to kill herself.
46:15
Speaker 1: We are now learning that Shinnaker is seeking and very
46:19
Speaker 1: possibly will receive, a new trial. The basis in emotion
46:24
Speaker 1: filed by Shinnaker is that her lawyers were in effective,
46:28
Speaker 1: making multiple mistakes, such as leaving out a critical video
46:31
Speaker 1: of evidence of her at the hospital after the incident
46:36
Speaker 1: to show to prove to the jury that she was
46:38
Speaker 1: insane at the time. She's also claiming that the jurors
46:42
Speaker 1: were predisposed to find her guilty, that they had already
46:46
Speaker 1: made their minds up on day one, and that some
46:49
Speaker 1: of them slept through parts of the trial. Now we
46:53
Speaker 1: know that now infamous video was taken hours after the
46:57
Speaker 1: arrest where she is shaking, uncontroled allably. But Joe Scott,
47:01
Speaker 1: she wasn't shaking when she took aim at her children,
47:04
Speaker 1: all right. She's pretty good shot, Yep. She was right
47:07
Speaker 1: on target Nancy completely and seems like she was in
47:09
Speaker 1: full control of her faculties because you know, after this,
47:13
Speaker 1: she went back, you know, manipulated the scene from the
47:16
Speaker 1: initial shooting, rearranged things just like she wanted it. And
47:20
Speaker 1: wasn't that the way it is? She wanted everything to
47:24
Speaker 1: be her way in this particular case, and she got it. Unfortunately,
47:28
Speaker 1: you had all of these lives that were just absolutely
47:31
Speaker 1: ripped to shreds now. If a judge grants her emotion
47:34
Speaker 1: for a new trial, she will be brought back to
47:36
Speaker 1: Tampa to argue in front of the judge. We wait
47:40
Speaker 1: as justice and foals Nancy Grace Crime story, signing off,
47:45
Speaker 1: goodbye friend. Did you know a recent law can leave
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