Latest / Graeme Souness Tackles / Martin Tyler: Aguero's Goal, How to Get into Commentary & PL Round-up | Graeme Souness Tackles Ep 4

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Martin Tyler: Aguero's Goal, How to Get into Commentary & PL Round-up | Graeme Souness Tackles Ep 4 · Graeme Souness Tackles

0:02
Welcome to Grahamson S tackles on the show.
0:05
Today we have Scott, the brains behind operation and the legend
0:08
is Martin Tyler. Interesting stories today
0:11
guaranteed. If you're watching on YouTube
0:14
then please hit like, comment and subscribe.
0:17
Enjoy the show and I feel now it's a bit of a competition.
0:21
Who can talk the most? Talk little but say a lot and
0:24
I've always thought that was wonderful.
0:26
Advice Who's the best team at the moment in the country?
0:30
Awesome. Not many people watching this
0:31
will remember what a telegram was that football's always
0:34
reflected the world. The players shot themselves, in
0:37
my opinion that. Was one of the many stupid
0:39
things I've said in my life. That's a new thing pressing.
0:42
Yeah, we used to call it closing down.
0:44
Yeah, yeah, we go back a long way.
0:52
We do. Yeah, we do.
0:54
And then we ended up working together.
0:56
Yes, which is great fun. And I can remember one story to
0:59
start with, your perception in the early 90s might have been
1:04
1991. We were commentating on Serie A
1:08
Sam Doria were going to win the league that season and they were
1:13
playing away to Roma and a draw was the result.
1:19
But Sam Doria made what I think you categorised as a mistake by
1:25
going one nil up and as we went into half time you said Roma
1:30
will score in the second-half and the game will finish one
1:33
one. And Rudy Volo, I think, was the
1:35
man who scored. And I thought that there's never
1:38
been a bit of commentary like that that's absolutely predicted
1:41
what was going to happen inside knowledge.
1:43
Maybe witnessed it when I was there.
1:46
You told me a story actually before, haven't you, When you
1:48
were there and Trevor when it scored or just going to school?
1:54
How can I put this without being appearing in court?
1:58
I'm playing, I'm playing in Italy and we're playing one of
2:01
the big teams, if not the biggest team around at the time,
2:08
and we were a really good young team.
2:10
And that's why I've gone to Sam Dora, because they wanted a
2:13
senior player with all the young Viale Mangini and Mangini
2:17
Pellegrini, some really super young players that went on to
2:20
win Syria. And coming off at half time,
2:23
it's nil, nil. And I can see our captain and
2:26
the captain of the opposition deep in conversation.
2:31
So we get back to the suggestion room and I'm sitting there
2:34
listening to our coach speak about we're going to play a draw
2:39
today. And I said to Trevor, am I
2:44
understanding correctly lack of Italian?
2:46
Am I understanding correct? We're going to have to build a
2:48
draw in the second-half. Yeah.
2:50
And quite late in the game our defender, one of our defenders
2:56
made a mistake, he slipped and one of their star players was
2:59
through one-on-one with the goalkeeper, our goalkeeper
3:03
Bourdon, who was a top goalkeeper.
3:05
And this player dropped his shoulder, flicked up outside his
3:08
right foot. Our our goalkeeper had bought
3:10
the dummy and the last minute stuck his leg out and the very
3:13
toe of his boot made connection to the ball and it spun round
3:16
the post. There must have been 20 players
3:20
ran to this guy saying what are you doing anyway?
3:24
I can't name names but I won't take much working on.
3:27
What? What was he like to work with on
3:29
a cocon? Oh terrific, he didn't do enough
3:31
for me. We ended up doing the odd game
3:33
together. I wish we'd done more, but you
3:36
were far too busy managing other people and managing other
3:39
aspects of your life. Spot on.
3:41
Great knowledge knowing reading the game instantly so, but there
3:46
were there were other you you weren't sort of put on the rota
3:49
of being doing it regular, but it was always.
3:52
We would. We had some really good games
3:54
together and 11 and unfortunate circumstances when they, I won't
3:58
say any more than they allocated.
4:00
Co commented. It wasn't available on the
4:02
morning of the match and Graham was there as a guest.
4:04
It was shuffled. Yes, it was.
4:06
Yeah. And with no warning that this
4:10
was going to happen, just stepped up and did the job.
4:13
Proper broadcaster as well as a proper player.
4:15
See, you see, I can remember that.
4:17
We were out for dinner and an Italian restaurant in Gilson
4:22
Kirkin, and then we went back and then woke up in the morning.
4:25
Gary Hughes came to me and said I've got a bit of a problem.
4:27
Could you do cool commentary? I said, well, I've never done it
4:31
before, but I knew I was in safe hands.
4:34
I was always worried that you end up talking too much.
4:37
You talk for the sake of talking where you know, I don't know
4:40
about you and the modern. I'm asking you to be critical of
4:42
anyone but in the modern way of commentary and Co commentary.
4:46
It's non-stop talk now. Well, you would you would say
4:50
your bit over to who you're working with and I feel now it's
4:55
a bit of a competition who can talk the most.
4:58
I think it's a sign at times. A lot of things we might talk
5:00
about over the next hour or so about it's what it is.
5:04
It's the reality of now and certainly I'm still working and
5:07
I believe that I have to embrace all these things and not perhaps
5:12
in my work. But I'll tell you one little
5:14
story from around the time that he started playing.
5:17
I did my first commentary and John Watson, who of course was
5:20
the BBC number one and somebody I knew not that well, but he was
5:26
kind enough, this will date it to send me a telegram before my
5:30
first game. Now that not many people
5:31
watching this will remember what a telegram was.
5:34
But it was suddenly went to the post office and they, the
5:36
postman delivered this and I found it.
5:38
I've been moving house over the last few days and I've found it.
5:41
This is from John Watson. John Watson, 1974.
5:45
And it said talk little but say a lot.
5:49
And I've always thought that was wonderful advice.
5:52
Wonderful. Advice, Martin.
5:53
I'm not saying it, but that's why you were the best for
5:57
decades. And that's why.
5:59
You set the people to judge. Really.
6:00
No, I'm telling you as a football person, thank you.
6:03
And I could listen to you and that.
6:04
Yeah, got that. Like anything, what I say,
6:07
you're not going to agree on 100%, but I would say high 90%
6:12
of things that you said were correct.
6:14
Well, I'm classic. About that You.
6:15
You. You were undoubtedly the top man
6:17
for what? How many decades?
6:19
Best part of three decades? Well.
6:20
And still going of course, 81 next week and.
6:23
You know, bugger. I knew you'd bring that up,
6:25
Scott. Yeah, and you dodged my
6:27
question, by the way, about people talking too much.
6:30
But I'll say it to you, I think modern football commentary, I
6:35
don't want to hear what he had the guy had for his breakfast.
6:39
I don't want to hear that trivia about whatever he might have
6:45
done or not done. I want to hear football.
6:47
I want to hear. That's what my advice now to
6:50
every young commentator is a simple thing.
6:52
Watch the game, not, you know, the prep you do the preppers
6:58
like you like you train as a backup.
6:59
You've got to be fit to do your job.
7:01
So the prep is the commentator's equivalent of doing the doggies
7:04
and running around and getting ready in the week.
7:08
So the prep is there, but when the game happens, I mean, it's
7:12
very easy to prejudge what lineups are going to be, for
7:14
example, And then somebody will, if you don't look, you won't see
7:18
that they're not playing three at the back or then they're not
7:21
playing two pivots or whatever. You've you've made-up your mind
7:24
beforehand. Don't make up your mind.
7:26
Watch what happens and be confident to be able to describe
7:29
that. And I well, the the advice that
7:33
we as if you like the play by play guys, will always say to
7:36
the Co commentators when they start try and tell us something
7:39
that their viewers can't see on the screen.
7:41
Great. That that that was, I didn't do
7:43
any prep, you know, I didn't do any prep.
7:47
I felt that any prep I could, I was going to access the people
7:54
at home could go on the Internet and get the same information.
7:57
So anything, you know, he scored ten goals at this time last
8:00
year. Whatever stat would come up,
8:02
they could get that at home. I saw my job when I was doing
8:07
punditry to point out something to the guys that the people
8:10
watching at home that they're not seeing.
8:13
The other thing I would say is the vast majority of television
8:15
commentators going right back, including John Molson, learnt
8:19
their trade on radio. I didn't.
8:21
I've never done any radio of any consequence.
8:25
So I was, I was lucky enough to get a job behind the scenes in
8:28
television and I was able to watch someone that Scott knows
8:32
extremely well and, you know, very knew very well, Brian
8:34
Moore. Who was a?
8:36
Top master of his craft. Yeah.
8:37
And, and. And he didn't have Co
8:40
commentates very often because it was all highlights in those
8:43
days. So you've got your rhythm into
8:46
it. You became not a copier of
8:48
somebody else. You became your own individual.
8:50
But if you've been doing radio all the time, I'm.
8:53
I'm amazed some of them do radio and television now and how they
8:57
switch between the two. It's a great credit to those who
8:59
do it. Yeah, I think so.
9:01
Yeah, there's there's definitely a different style between the
9:03
two. Obviously as a Co commentator
9:05
with TV the pictures. Are you one of these guys I'm
9:07
talking about? I don't know.
9:09
We've done quite a few games. You can tell me.
9:12
We've done quite a few games together.
9:13
We have. Has he talked too much?
9:15
No, no. Did you watch the game since
9:25
yesterday? We're talking on the Monday
9:27
after that Sunday. What would you have said about
9:30
Odegar's goal? What would what would you have
9:32
said? You've obviously watched it a
9:34
few Times Now. What would you have said had you
9:36
been sitting alongside Peter Drew?
9:38
Who's doing the? Great Dummy by Havarts.
9:40
Yes, yeah. Defender may have anticipated.
9:45
I know he's thinking he's going to go to his right because Havas
9:46
is going to spin in right. I wouldn't offer too much
9:49
criticism against him. It was.
9:51
It was. Would you?
9:52
Have would you have tracked Odegard when you were playing?
9:55
Oh, yeah, yeah. But Odegard's first touch.
9:58
But we, you know, like you, you know, and you know, you can look
10:02
at the from Chelsea's point of view and think should have done
10:06
this, should have done that. And from the the Arsenal point
10:09
of view where it's a great dummy and a great first touch by
10:11
Odegard and he's sticking it away.
10:14
I like him back. He's grown by the Odegard.
10:17
He's having a good start to the season, having Nope in his best
10:20
last season. Yeah, he did have a good.
10:22
I was lucky enough to do it, a Norway game, that the World Cup
10:25
was wonderful for me. I was very lucky to well with
10:28
Andy Townsend. I was based in Dallas and then I
10:30
did the England. He was wonderful and he like he
10:35
he he would say if he was sitting here now, he doesn't
10:38
overburden himself with prep. He watches what happens.
10:42
But we loved we stayed on the air, which most broadcasters
10:44
wouldn't do when Norway had won their game in Dallas and the
10:48
rowing and the guard was banging on the drum and everything that
10:51
was just. Sensational theatre.
10:53
Interesting what you say about that goal.
10:56
I think if Moises can I say, though, was playing, I think he
10:59
naturally drops in and follows her to guard.
11:01
But but it's interesting. Look almost the not the start of
11:04
your career because you you were a written journalist first, and
11:07
then you were not for very long. Not for very long.
11:09
No, but I did. My first job was writing for a
11:12
magazine and Graham will laugh at this.
11:14
I would put on the skills and tactics strand every week for
11:18
this magazine because I had played in the Ismid League and
11:22
been coached. George Cohen coached me.
11:24
That was not for very long, but a World Cup been coached by a
11:26
World Cup winner. What magazine was it it?
11:28
Was a it was actually, to be fair, Graham, it wasn't a
11:31
magazine. It was called a part work.
11:33
And if you're you're old enough to remember these things were
11:35
like you bought them in weekly parts and they had a binder and
11:39
then you put them in like an encyclopaedia.
11:41
So it was a, a football encyclopaedia that you got in
11:43
weekly parts. So every week it was great.
11:46
It got me into television in truth, because so we'd come up
11:50
with a subject, say free kick over the wall for example, and
11:54
so we needed some examples. No video recorders at all, but
11:58
we'd have seen a couple of goals and if they're ITV, we had a way
12:03
of being allowed to go in say once a month.
12:07
I'm sure a little bit of cash changed hands.
12:10
But we were allowed to go in and watch on the video until we took
12:13
an artist, a graphic artist with us who would watch the goal over
12:17
and over again and do a diagram of the goal.
12:19
What? Year.
12:20
What year would be? The year was 1971, my first day
12:25
as a journalist and the very first day as a journalist.
12:29
Arsenal won the league on the Monday night and the following
12:32
Saturday. That Spurs.
12:33
Yeah, that Spurs. What was that?
12:34
That game, I bet you because you were young Spurs, young Spurs
12:37
player. What date was that?
12:39
May, May the May, the 1st, maybe 1971.
12:42
And then I was sat almost on the 71 on the Saturday they won the
12:46
cup. Frank Mcclintock going up and
12:49
holding out the cup, and I ended up going to the people who cover
12:52
those games just as an interloper to draw.
12:56
I didn't do the drawing but we found the examples us and they
12:59
had to get the videotapes out. There was no spinning anything
13:02
through. You had to know exactly when it
13:04
would happen in the game. And so we did all that and I met
13:06
a few people and then when this part work came to an end, I got
13:10
a call saying would you like to come and work for us behind the
13:14
scenes in television? And I went no, no, I'm a non
13:16
league footballer. No, I'm not going to do that.
13:18
I means I have to give up my Saturdays.
13:21
And that was one of the many stupid things I've said in my
13:24
life where where somebody put me straight and the Jimmy Hill with
13:27
the great late Jimmy Hill. I was writing a column for him
13:31
and the and one of the Sunday papers, he'd tweak it his way,
13:35
but I'd do the substance for it. And I used to deliver it on a
13:38
Friday morning when in the Sunday People of the News of the
13:41
World can't remember one of those.
13:42
And I would deliver it by hand. They'd written by hand.
13:45
No, no laptops or anything. I'd deliver it and push through
13:48
the letterbox and one day he was there.
13:51
We've been doing it for seven or eight weeks and we hadn't really
13:54
spoken except on the phone. Anyway, he said come in, what
13:57
are you doing? And he said he knew I played for
13:58
Corinthian Casuals because he was connected with that kind of
14:01
football. Anyway, I told him I'd been
14:04
offered this job in television. He just left ITV to go to the
14:06
BBCI, wasn't replacing him. But I said, now I've turned it
14:12
down. And he went, what he said these
14:16
very words were, he said, go home, pick up the phone, ring
14:19
him back. You never know where it will
14:22
take you. He said, you're mad.
14:24
He also said, how good are you as a player?
14:27
You know, are you really going to progress?
14:28
I was 26 or something like that. And so I did exactly what the
14:32
powerful presence of a man. And so I went home and phoned
14:35
up, hoping that they would say the job's gone.
14:38
But they said come in next Tuesday.
14:39
He he was impressive, wasn't he? Jimmy Hill?
14:42
Yeah, he was at the front of it all.
14:45
He was ITV, he got ITV front, but he just got Coventry into
14:49
the old First Division as they just got back to the Premier
14:51
League now. He got them into the old First
14:53
Division and left. He never managed the First
14:55
Division game. He got them through.
14:57
They were very glitzy. They're Clement, a nice kit and
15:01
all the little gimmicks that was his head of his time.
15:04
What he did with the PFA as well.
15:06
Yeah, he got the the fring of the slaves they used to call.
15:09
It he abolishing the maximum wage?
15:10
He was a very confident guy and he'd obviously he'd been a
15:15
decent player in the 50s with Fulham and then got into the the
15:20
union and the PFA. And I could remember that.
15:23
I'm the oldest in the room by some distance.
15:25
But I can remember that fight because the maximum wage was, so
15:28
you got at the end of it was £20 a week, but you played for
15:32
Arsenal or Aldershot. That was the most officially you
15:35
could get paid. So a lot of good players stayed
15:37
in the lower divisions because they were happy they didn't have
15:39
to move home, they were getting regular football.
15:42
And, and do you think our game today is a great watch?
15:47
I do. I think it's a fantastic watch
15:50
and I think my industry television has played a huge
15:52
part in it. How can it be a great game to
15:56
watch today when on a regular basis, majority of the time the
16:01
people who have most touches of the ball in your centre halves?
16:05
How? Can it be a great game?
16:06
I think, I think that's that's like a year with a great respect
16:09
and I love you to bitch, you know that.
16:10
I think that's a year out of date.
16:12
I think people are playing the ball. 4 and I went to Brentford
16:15
Beach, Sunderland on Saturday. My new house is a lot nearer
16:18
Brentford than my old house, so I factored this in.
16:21
I'd be my new house. I could leave at 1:00 and go and
16:23
watch Brentford be sundown. It was a great watch.
16:25
It wasn't a fantastic game. It was a great contest,
16:28
athletically superb. The first four passes I stopped
16:31
counting after 4, but all 50 yards or more.
16:34
If it if it has changed, Martin, it's three games into a season,
16:38
yeah. So it's early to call that last
16:41
year on a regular basis, the people had most touches of all
16:43
their centre halves. But they, they keep their own
16:46
stats, don't they? They they get they're 95%
16:49
completed pass. That's, that's what's taken
16:51
over. And This is why my my I would
16:53
argue that a lot of it is borders on being unwatchable
16:58
because of that, you know? But it's just security.
17:01
Now let let me just ask. You this it's all about stats.
17:04
Players today have total security.
17:06
You didn't. I knew you right at the heart of
17:09
all your career and I, we might talk a bit later about the trip
17:12
to Sudan that we shared together with Liverpool was.
17:14
Sammy and the Sammy and the luggage.
17:16
But you. You.
17:21
Were fighting for your wages, your family win bonuses,
17:25
appearance money, all of which is gone now, all of which takes
17:28
the fear out of being a footballer.
17:30
So that rejection and yet, you know, there's a lot of issues
17:34
about generally in society, we're looking after those who
17:39
struggle better than we've ever done.
17:41
And I'm all in favour of that. But the truth is I grew up as a
17:44
commentator, I never had for ages, didn't have a contract.
17:49
I just wanted to do it. And if it took me down the wrong
17:52
path in the end, then so be it. And you guys, it's all very well
17:56
now, people saying we should do this and do that, but what about
18:00
the 18 year olds that get released?
18:02
You know, we lead them on and do that.
18:04
And what about someone who just gets to the end and we say,
18:06
well, sorry, you've done really well for us, but you're 32 now
18:10
and you're sorry. You've got to go.
18:12
You've got to go. There's no question about it.
18:14
You can't hang on to the last year.
18:15
We'll make it uncomfortable for you to do, although that's more
18:17
difficult now, I believe. So I think that I enjoyed people
18:23
fighting for their wins and and that's not there now.
18:26
We, we is it? Is it better that people are
18:28
fighting well? How could it be a better game
18:30
then? Are they are they almost two
18:32
different things though, what we're seeing on the pitch and
18:35
actually because because we've discussed about how 18 year olds
18:39
could be on 30,000 LB a week and they're still nowhere near the
18:42
first team. They're on a five year contract
18:44
and that blunts their their motivation to to be the best
18:48
that they can possibly be. And I think that's wrong, but I
18:51
am with you. I think it's just it's not worse
18:54
or better. It's different.
18:55
It's different from the 80s, It's different from white.
18:57
It reflects. The football's always reflected
19:00
with the world. It it almost gets so important
19:03
that you think it shapes the world, but we're kidding
19:05
ourselves if that is the case. Well, can I take you back to
19:07
something you said how they're in the comfort zone, I think was
19:11
the term you used about and it's all.
19:13
Stat. They're not.
19:13
They're not fearful for their. Futures and it's all stat driven
19:17
today and I think that's a major problem.
19:19
You know, I must have played well because and past completion
19:23
start was 98% but 97 of that was going square 10 yards.
19:27
Right. I, I want to ask you this
19:29
question because I've been waiting for an opportunity to do
19:31
it. I believe the power has been
19:33
taken away from the players to alter things in the game that
19:37
everything has to go through. The coach now I've seen you play
19:41
and make decisions on the field. When you were in your pump at
19:44
Liverpool, where you go, I'm certainly say you might check
19:47
with Ronnie Moran or Bob or whoever was the man.
19:49
But did you, did you have the freedom to do that?
19:52
And do you look at players now and say, well, they don't have
19:54
the freedom to do that? So.
19:56
When we get over running midfield, do you sort it out
19:58
yourself? Yeah, Well, it.
19:59
Was very simple. It was always the same thing.
20:01
Just pull your two white men in, Ronnie Wheelan, Sammy Lee or
20:05
Jimmy Casey kind of bit tighter. So nothing was happening between
20:08
us, it was happening outside of us.
20:09
Just give us a chance to make some sort of recovery.
20:12
But I don't think I, I was never that bright to go down what
20:16
you're talking about in terms of coaches changing it from the
20:20
side. It's an instinct, you know, go
20:22
back to the England game and I I was supportive of Tuchel but
20:29
also he is culpable. At the end of the day you go one
20:32
nil up against Argentina. I think was it 18 minutes before
20:38
Argentina equalised? Was it 18 minutes, 20 minutes?
20:41
In that period of time what happened to the England players?
20:46
Tuchel didn't come onto the sideline.
20:48
Now we've gone one nil up, everyone retreat.
20:51
Let's just because when you score a goal and you go on and
20:53
up, you get up, you're re energised, you have a bit more
20:56
more belief. You're not taking 3 touches,
20:58
you're taking two. You're not taking two, you're
20:59
taking 1. He never went to touches.
21:02
No retreat, no guy's retreat. Well, just hold on to that.
21:05
The players shot themselves in my opinion.
21:08
They just what do we do next instead of going out and
21:11
dominating the ball? Don't have to run bump, just
21:14
dominate the ball. In that 18 to 20 minutes, do you
21:18
know how much possession England had?
21:19
Very, very. Two passes. 12% of possession in
21:23
that period of time. But can you not factor in that
21:26
they were exhausted? I, I, I, I'll be honest with
21:29
you. I'm.
21:29
From from Mexico and after that. No.
21:32
Well, Argentina were extra time almost at the moment.
21:35
They went to the tournament lockout stages and if you see
21:39
the way when they went 21 up that they pressed us and even
21:43
when they went two went up and we were trying to obviously get
21:45
back in the game, they pressed us.
21:47
They did the opposite of what we did when we were one nil up and
21:51
they didn't allow a chance of short for for England.
21:53
So Tuko gets thick for that. I don't think he deserves any
21:55
stick for that. That's totally down to the
21:56
players. Could he not have done something
21:58
different though? Could he not have?
21:59
Made, let me tell you. So you score and you think, come
22:01
on, then let's get a second one without chasing the game.
22:05
It's not have all of a sudden they've just bottled it and
22:07
they've just retreated and that this is where he's culpable.
22:10
He's looked at his bench and he's looked at his I think he's
22:13
got Manu and Shalaba. Shalaba.
22:16
On the bench, it would have been all of.
22:18
Them and he's going to go. They're not going to improve my
22:21
midfield and for me it was Declan Rice and the boy Anderson
22:24
just went back and sat and hold hands with the back four they
22:27
should be now trying to take the team forward away from.
22:30
The keep Argentina honest at the back and one thing, listen about
22:34
your judgement on this. But it always seems to me you
22:36
can get behind Enzo for Fernandez.
22:39
If you let him have the ball, he'll run the game, but his
22:42
weakness is running in that direction, not.
22:44
Very fast, the hard, the hard yards.
22:46
Yeah, that's where that's where Toukor was brought in to do
22:50
something different that Gareth Southgate did.
22:52
And if anything, he doubled down on what Southgate was apparently
22:55
doing all the time. But by making, by making forward
22:58
substitutions, Olly Watkins and and others on the bench, he he
23:02
could have been sending a signal to the players and to the
23:04
nation. Look, this is what I'm trying to
23:06
do with the players as I can't. Actually.
23:09
Change it. Initially when they scored a
23:12
goal, that's down to the players what they're going to do in the
23:14
next 10 minutes and they didn't do anything other than retreat
23:18
and held hands and they feel horrible.
23:20
When he looks to the bench, that's for where he's culpable
23:23
for me. When he decides to change it at
23:25
that time he's got how can I make it better?
23:27
I can't. So he sits at centre half or a
23:29
couple couple of defenders on and they think they can go down
23:32
the road. They went with Mexico, but
23:35
you're playing against Argentina.
23:36
It's another level 100. Percent it seemed at the time
23:39
and I was lucky enough to be there and it was, I was working
23:42
for the host broadcaster, which is a world feed and I'm totally
23:45
neutral. You have my word on my
23:48
children's line. So I'm totally neutral and, and
23:51
it just seemed at the moment of the substitution, when Gordon
23:54
was taken up, he needed to have somebody to keep them honest.
23:58
That was the phrase I used. Got to keep them honest at the
24:00
back so they don't just pass. Absolutely, because then you
24:03
just it's defensively attacked and at some point they're
24:06
they're going to break it. But it was a wonderful that was
24:08
my 13th World Cup as a commentator.
24:10
I'm so lucky to have done that. And if that turns out to be the
24:13
last ever game I did in the World Cup as a broadcaster, just
24:16
simply covering the drama of a football match, you couldn't ask
24:21
for a better way to bow out on it.
24:22
It was just extraordinary. We talk about the World Cup just
24:30
on the on the managers. I think the managers now have
24:33
everybody in a straight jacket and they almost use it as a, a
24:36
chest light way. Whereas back in Graham's day and
24:38
even my day, you're allowed to problem solve on the pitch.
24:41
You felt it, you saw it, you you made the difference.
24:43
Now I think that and it's a societal thing where there's not
24:47
enough leaders generally, not just on the pitch but in
24:50
society. I think people who expect to be
24:52
told what to do the whole time. So you were a manager, did you
24:56
straight jacket your players? Did you have players on the
24:59
field in your teams when you were manager Who you said you
25:02
sort it out there? Were moments in the game.
25:04
I I can say from experience he he let us problem solve.
25:08
There's moments in a game where you're, you know, you're getting
25:12
overrun as a player. The same message I would try to
25:17
on when I was a manager, the wider midfield players come in
25:20
plain but narrower help. You know, once you don't want
25:22
anything coming straight down the middle that you want it
25:24
happening out there where you've got a chance of recovery.
25:28
You know, IA constant thing today is they're not very good
25:32
at the back like Chelsea against Brighton.
25:36
I, I, I think you have to look beyond that.
25:39
I don't think it's just your goalkeeper or your back four.
25:42
When I took to the field as a player, my priority mark was to
25:45
make sure my number one priority, make sure Laura and
25:48
Alan Hanson weren't exposed. That was my number one priority.
25:52
And after that, if you can be a bit more adventurous and create
25:55
something, have a shot at goal, that was secondary to that.
25:58
So I think when you look at teams today, when you talk about
26:00
the goalkeeper making mistakes, which is a black and white
26:03
thing, it's not subjective, But I think the rest of it is where
26:06
defenders are not doing their job, it's because they're
26:08
exposed by the midfield. Yeah, and maybe it's because I
26:10
played in. Midfield and who's the best team
26:12
at the moment in the country? Arsenal and they're the best
26:15
team without the ball and how compact they are.
26:17
I'm lucky enough to help out the working Academy with under
26:20
seventeens, eighteens and nineteens and the one quality we
26:23
cannot find is people who smell danger because you don't get
26:27
taught that when you're young. Declan Rice is the best of that.
26:29
Yeah, and, and just anybody, we've seen a lot of them over
26:33
the years, but now I don't think the next generation, they just
26:37
want to play. And that's why football is like
26:39
it is now. The last these two games I
26:41
watched yesterday in the last minute, the team that's winning,
26:45
they're going to try and score another goal.
26:47
Not taking it to the corner. What happened to that?
26:49
Taking it to the corner and just infuriating everybody and
26:53
getting kicked up in the air. But you, you run down the clock.
26:56
Nobody does that anymore. They just want to score another
26:58
goal with five Subs who want to get on.
27:01
Maduaika came on, I don't know how long he had, five minutes.
27:03
He doesn't want to spend 5 minutes taking the ball into the
27:06
corner, which is what he should be doing.
27:08
I believe. I not that I would ever be at
27:10
that level, but that I want to win the game.
27:13
Everybody wants to win the game. I will win the game 31 and
27:15
Maduaika will beat four people sitting in the top corner or
27:17
lose it and then suddenly Chelsea are coming down the
27:20
other end, but that's a massive change.
27:22
Yeah, absolutely. Again, it's the thought pattern,
27:25
what you'd said before about not being a #9 anymore.
27:27
But you wouldn't want your boy to be a number 9 you because
27:29
everyone wants to be a number 10.
27:31
So that's enforcing my opinion. If you're a boy who's going to
27:35
be a player, the last position you'd want to play will be sent
27:39
forward. How can you, as is the way with
27:42
Allen, have 90 minutes of football and touched the ball 6
27:45
times? You might score a couple of
27:46
goals for that. No but the best feeling in
27:48
football and I was a non league centre foot when they crossed
27:51
right footed from the right and left footed from the half No 6
27:54
foot 3. I had half a chance then which
27:56
they don't do now is scoring a goal.
27:58
I want my son to experience I all the way.
28:01
I played my last game when I was 77.
28:03
I've got it on my phone. I scored a goal and I looked it
28:06
on the video and when they sent it to me afterwards, I looked so
28:09
awful that I will I said I'll never play again.
28:12
But that scoring that goal is still, it's still the greatest
28:15
thing. I saw Alan Shearer at an awards
28:17
do a few years ago now and he said he's never in his life
28:21
since he retired as anything in his life, anything replicated
28:26
the thrill of scoring a goal. His wife's delighted to hear.
28:28
Well, that's. Not it, but you're you, you
28:30
score goals if it's suited. I mean if it's suited the
28:32
situation you've got when you live to score goals, scoring
28:36
goals in the school playgrounds, scoring goals in part time
28:39
football parks, football, scoring goals in the Premier
28:41
League. If you are one of those then
28:43
there's nothing better than that.
28:44
So I would want my son to experience what?
28:47
I said 6 that was. He plays centre half my son.
28:49
How many? Games.
28:50
Do they play 36 games? How many games are the Premier
28:52
League 3838 games 38 times, sixes, whatever it is.
28:57
So over a nine month season, you're going to touch the ball
28:59
2. 116 is that. That's not a lot some.
29:03
Teams, it wasn't like that with what I saw with with Sunderland
29:07
and Brian. Probably the bull's whacked into
29:10
him all the time. He holds it up, he gets lots of
29:12
touches. But that feeds into my we differ
29:15
on it and that's what I think some of the games today are
29:20
unwatchable. I think the spectacle of full
29:22
stadiums, carpet as a as a football pitch, the way the
29:27
television promote it. But I'd have to say, I think
29:30
some games where they're playing, I'd go to a football
29:32
match to watch my team play in their half and create chances
29:35
and I'll and pepper the goal. Ideally you you.
29:38
Were for the majority of great talent.
29:39
I'm talking about you're general.
29:40
Great talent. I'm talking general SO.
29:42
You're judging people with your own.
29:43
Talent in general. You can watch Premier League
29:45
games today with the balls mostly in their own half, going
29:48
nowhere with it. If you had come to Anfield,
29:51
sorry Melwood, and watch this train, and I'm sorry to say
29:54
that, to say that because that's only that.
29:58
Can I? I went to the equivalent of
30:00
Oxbridge. Yes, the people I worked for,
30:03
there was no one better. Never has been anyone better.
30:05
They were as good as anyone you want to name in the history of
30:08
football. If you had come to watch our
30:10
small sided games, hit aside, all you would hear from Ronnie
30:14
Moran and Joe Fagan. Look forward, pass it for look.
30:18
I could pass it square, look forward.
30:21
And that's every day in training.
30:22
Now a midfield player today are lots of them so-called world
30:26
class ones. Or receive a ball off a full
30:28
back and they'll never look there.
30:30
They'll do that and pass it there.
30:32
Ah, but my past stats, completion stats are great.
30:35
It makes for a boring watch, I'm sorry.
30:38
The worst kind of midfield change my mind, the ones that
30:40
lend you the ball and and that happens in football.
30:44
That's I've been watching football since the 1950s.
30:45
There've been plenty of those in the past as well.
30:47
He wasn't one of them, but. Martin, you have to tell.
30:49
That's what England should have heard from Anderson and Declan
30:51
Rice and that Argentina game. Just don't know.
30:54
Keep possession, don't have to go anywhere with it.
30:55
Just keep it and keep it. You're 1 nil up.
30:57
They couldn't do that because they don't have the ability to
30:59
do that. But they didn't have anybody to
31:01
play into. To to transfer second.
31:03
Goal. Just on visits in Melwood, I
31:06
believe. I do believe you did do that one
31:07
time. Graham invited me one day, I
31:09
probably pestered into, pested him to let me in and on Saturday
31:13
morning you were a bit late, I was already there and you
31:17
apologised to me for something. Do you remember it wasn't for
31:19
being late. Do you remember what it was for?
31:22
No. You wore black shoes with a
31:24
brown belt and. I said, did I?
31:29
You did. That's not like me.
31:30
Which? Is why you apologised.
31:33
I thought it was exactly like, well, that you were worried that
31:36
your style had not been carried off even though it was a
31:39
Saturday morning training session you did.
31:42
Let's talk about the weekend's games as well with with Arsenal
31:46
and also Chelsea. What did you see in that game?
31:48
Many people are saying that Chelsea are the team that can
31:50
get closest to Arsenal cut after it.
31:54
What? What did you see?
31:55
Up to you. What would you say?
31:58
There's no doubt. I think Arsenal are the team to
32:00
be at three games and remember. But when when you look at what
32:03
Arsenal do in the second-half with the Subs to make, they've
32:06
got a really strong squad. I think they're a powerful,
32:10
aggressive team, which you must be.
32:13
I still think they need a centre forward, if I'm honest, but I
32:17
see them as the the team to beat.
32:19
You know, they're they're a solid out for that really are.
32:24
But I still think they need, you know, we take guy cares, Guy
32:28
cares have ours. I think the answer for a team.
32:32
Do they play for PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City?
32:37
No, no they don't. So Liverpool even they don't pay
32:41
for them. Those two don't get in the
32:43
Liverpool Tina. Or maybe not even Chelsea, but
32:45
actually what they do without the ball, even the forwards.
32:48
But for, yeah. But that's a given, right?
32:50
That's not a new thing you did you ever see in Rushcliffe?
32:53
I know, I know. Of course it is.
32:54
In Rush was the best one man press I've ever seen.
32:57
It's just unbelievable. He did it all on his own, you
33:00
know. Martin, that's a new thing
33:01
pressing. Yeah, we used to call it
33:03
closing. Down.
33:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of those Arsenal forwards
33:07
wouldn't necessarily get into the top teams.
33:09
I don't even think they'd get into Chelsea's team from an
33:11
individual basis. Really do what Mikhail Arteta
33:14
want them to do without the ball as well as with the.
33:16
Ball, Don't be. Don't be saying that, man.
33:19
You're you're a player today playing in the modern game and
33:21
everyone's. Support.
33:22
What about the left backs? What about Tyreke Mitchell and,
33:26
well, Ben Chilwell? Luke Shaw?
33:29
Fantastic cross. I was thinking I'm going to
33:30
speak to Scott Memento who knows everything about left backs, so
33:33
I'm watching it. The left backs had a pretty good
33:36
day, didn't. They they had a very, very good
33:37
day. I'm pleased with Tyreke Mitchell
33:39
as well. Ben Chilwell, good to see him
33:40
back in, in English football. I mean, where did he go after,
33:44
after being at Chelsea and winning the Champions League as
33:45
well? But I I do want to ask you about
33:47
Michael Etta. I understand what you're saying.
33:49
It's a point. I'm playing devil's advocate.
33:51
But Michael Arteta is one of those real modern day managers.
33:54
He is structured. He does want his forward players
33:56
to to press. Of course it happened back in
33:59
the day. I mean, according to Martin and
34:01
others, football didn't happen before 1992, no?
34:04
No, of course that's one thing you can't accuse me of.
34:07
But but how, how often have you come across Michael Arteta and
34:10
what what is he like as a as a person?
34:12
Not as often as you think because I, I used to do the
34:14
aftermatch interviews, but that obviously the thing expanded
34:17
and, and, and great for the, the television companies and I
34:20
believe for football. So now I've more commentated on
34:24
him when he's on the touchline and showing his passion.
34:28
And I think that the energy, I think energy is a really
34:31
important thing in life. I'm lucky enough and you've
34:34
already told everybody my age, but when I go to work and I've
34:38
got a Champions League game on Wednesday, so I go to work and I
34:42
know if I I've got to find the energy and I.
34:45
Do you think people are looking at you and maybe questioning
34:48
that? Wow, your knowledge is second to
34:50
none. No, no.
34:51
But the energy, the way you do it and I love the game.
34:53
It's not hard. It's not as though I'm sort of
34:55
acting apart. I love being there.
34:58
I'm not being at a game is is the worst thing for me and it's
35:02
not, doesn't have to be a level I would be.
35:04
I've been to see I've been Colchester against Southampton,
35:06
Watford against West Ham, I've done the under nineteens against
35:10
Forest Green, I mean the dugout and yeah, the Champions League
35:14
game coming up with PSG, which is which is a great thing to do.
35:17
But the energy is important and I think that's what Mikkel have
35:22
to go back to the subject. Mikkel has that great enemy like
35:25
Mourinho did when he first came in.
35:27
He would run up and down the touchline Dr everybody mad.
35:29
But it was must be wonderful if you're playing for him.
35:32
But you didn't have people like that.
35:34
You had your, your managers were.
35:37
Well, Bob, Bob was just a genius enough to do that.
35:39
He just bought the best he. Looked like somebody out of
35:41
Rovers returned with the result. Ioffer my opinion about Arsenal.
35:46
Tell us what you thought of Chelsea at the weekend then.
35:49
I thought they gave a good go of it, really.
35:51
It was odd because I hope Reece won't mind me saying this, but
35:56
I'm having coffee in Oxshire at 9:00 on the match day and Reece
36:00
comes in for a coffee and I first thought was, oh, he's not
36:03
going to play. But they left.
36:05
They went on the day, which I think a lot of players would
36:08
appreciate sleeping in their own beds overnight.
36:10
That sort of started my day off thinking about Chelsea.
36:13
Really. I think the, the whole business
36:17
plan is, is, you know, way beyond me.
36:20
You know, I, I, I, I was really pleased when the transfer
36:24
deadline, when Brendan Johnson and Dwight McNeil swapped, it
36:29
was just a swap like the old days.
36:31
And yet Spurs paid 60 million for Brian for centre half and
36:35
then sold the centre half for 46,000,000.
36:37
Why didn't they just swap and 14,000,000 between the two
36:40
clubs? Well, I think there's PSR
36:42
reasons. There'll be accountancy reasons.
36:44
Why? Yeah, but.
36:44
Surely that's less, I mean, are you trying to create a false
36:47
economy by doing that? That that worries me a little
36:50
bit, but I haven't got no financial skills, as my bank
36:54
manager will tell you. Are you alluding to Chelsea's
36:57
business model Well? It's, it's unusual, isn't it?
36:59
It's buy as many players and make profit on them.
37:02
And it's, it's sort of things that they can do with our game.
37:05
The Americans can't do with their own sports.
37:07
Do you agree that if you whatever walk of life that these
37:11
camera people here who are earning fortunes, how it's
37:13
changed them? No, quite rightly so, by the
37:16
way. You give anyone too much money,
37:18
whatever, walk of life when they're too young and then get
37:21
their armchair. That happens, put their feet up
37:24
to give to pay too much for a footballer.
37:26
Has Chelsea have done? There's any?
37:28
Premier League does. Because they're paying big
37:29
wages, though, do they? Because they're no, No, that's
37:32
about. A week or seven years lower than
37:35
you think. It's because it's the length of
37:36
the contract and it's very much into bonuses.
37:38
As well, see, I'm not, I'm not sure we can believe when they
37:41
give out these numbers, the transfer fees they receive and
37:43
what they're paying. I really don't.
37:44
Want backs up your point, Graham, because they've got
37:46
security for six or seven years if they want to sit on.
37:48
Their I would I wouldn't want that.
37:50
No, I genuinely wouldn't want that because I'd be scared that
37:53
I would sit on my but. Two things happen.
37:54
You pay too much for them, they won't all work out.
37:57
So try and get rid of the ones that don't work out.
38:00
You know, you end up having a pay them to go and you end up
38:03
getting a fraction of the transfer of money you've spent
38:04
on. Them.
38:05
Listen boys, I want to say this and again I emphasise I'm the
38:08
oldest in the room. Believe it or not, I am and we
38:12
have to live in what the world is.
38:13
We can't change it. We have to go with it and take
38:17
Harvey Barnes's goal. You know that.
38:20
The joy that that gives me as a football fan, I've got no
38:22
allegiance to Harvey or Newcastle.
38:24
I commentate on his dad a few times and like, it's just
38:27
astonishing. And that, yeah, it's a good
38:29
pitch. Yeah, the ball's better.
38:31
Yeah, the boots are better and the defenders can't, can't,
38:34
well, you can't kick people up in there.
38:36
Let. Me show menu on this strong
38:37
foot. You were a rare team where you
38:39
had footballing centre backs and that's one of whom I have got a
38:44
story about which I just tell you about Gary Gillespie.
38:49
I I had my children in the late 1980s.
38:53
And so I get in the tunnel, as you know, we'd probably first
38:57
met in a player's tunnel at Middlesbrough and you get
39:00
chatting about things. And I told Gary that I was going
39:03
to be a dad for the first time. And he went, I've got 4 and I
39:07
went and he said I delivered one of them.
39:10
What? Yeah, I'm thinking now I've got
39:12
to go go through this and the first time, Dad, I want to be
39:14
there, make sure I'm not there. Said yeah, he said.
39:18
I was in the, we were in the hotel, perhaps moving in the
39:20
football, living in a hotel. And so the, the good lady
39:25
Gillespie, she, she was giving birth and there was nobody
39:28
there. They couldn't get a midwife
39:29
there. And Gary had seen it a couple of
39:31
times. So it was obviously not his
39:32
first job and he did it and I thought, wow, that's a great
39:36
story to be able to tell, but how on earth can you get it into
39:39
a football commentary? It goes Grobola to Hanson to
39:43
Gillespie, who delivered one of his own child.
39:46
But I waited and this was a Scotland game.
39:48
Graham, this would be 3 or 4 years later.
39:51
He's playing for Scotland against Poland at Hampden and
39:55
we're covering it for Sky. And so Gary's a centre back, the
39:58
ball goes over his head and he's running back towards his own
40:02
goal. And Andy Gorham's a goalkeeper
40:05
outcomes Andy Gorham think he's going to get the ball.
40:06
Gary toes the ball up over Andy Gorham.
40:09
Gillespie own goal. So I said this is a man who's
40:13
normally so calm that he actually in a crisis
40:17
domestically delivered one of his own children and he's just
40:20
done this. I thought that was really,
40:22
really smart. Not one person that's ever
40:24
mentioned it to me. I talked to Gary about it
40:27
because I honestly, we share that that story originally, but
40:30
that I would say that to you and commentators, Wait, if you've
40:32
got something good, don't throw it away.
40:35
Wait till it's the right moment. I remember to say it so that but
40:38
he was a football in centre back.
40:40
You had football in centre backs but it was, you know, you should
40:44
be appreciative of what we have now.
40:46
But yours could defend, I guess a bit, no.
40:48
I am, I am a football lover, Martin.
40:50
I'm like the three of us. I love football, but I think I'm
40:53
honest enough. I think some of the games are
40:57
just ordinary to watch and that's because it's all about
41:01
possession stats. I never give the ball away and
41:04
they play in their own half and there's a there's a any
41:08
spectator wants to see action up that end.
41:10
But they don't, they don't look at, look at, I mean, actually it
41:12
was Chelsea and Arsenal, wasn't it?
41:13
In the Everton goals, Tyreke George from Chelsea scores of
41:16
Belter and Maitland Niles scores the goal of the weekend even
41:21
better than Harvey Barnes's probably.
41:23
And I mean, that's not, I know the George girl.
41:27
They were one down, weren't they?
41:28
So all right, all right. One of those magnificent moments
41:32
as football lovers. What game did I watch?
41:34
Who Aston Villa played at the weekend Hub?
41:37
Did you watch that? No, I was at.
41:40
Aston. Villa I'm on my way to watch
41:41
Brent. Parson, Aston Villa I think I'm
41:43
correct in saying in three games I had one shot on time.
41:47
Yeah, yeah. They haven't scored.
41:48
Yet tell me, tell me about, tell me about their business model,
41:52
Aston Villas. Let me tell you what to do.
41:54
We'll sell all our best players and see what it takes us.
41:57
Yeah, but that's that's because of the PSR and where it is
42:00
because they're not bringing in enough income because of the.
42:03
The way that the big players. Have almost pulled up the
42:05
drawbridge. They want to kick on, they don't
42:07
want to sell the best players, but it's almost been like a
42:09
domino. Effect.
42:10
But why is not? Why are we not told all this?
42:12
Why are we not given the details for the transparency?
42:15
I think the game could do with a huge dose of transparency
42:19
because people are are paying massive money.
42:21
The game only exists because of the supporters.
42:24
The supporters are entitled to know, not just, oh, will I have
42:29
to do that because it's a money thing.
42:31
What are the numbers? Why?
42:33
Why is it? I mean, as a journalist, I would
42:35
be wanting to be asking those sort of questions.
42:37
And if they say well, it's none of your business, well, I think,
42:39
I think we're entitled to say is our business.
42:49
Thanks to our whiskey partner Saint Andrew's Three Fingers
42:52
Whiskey, the legendary measure. One team Graham that doesn't
42:56
seem to be worrying about spending £100 million on players
42:58
is Liverpool course got their first win of the season at the
43:01
weekend. What?
43:02
What did you make of that and Alexander Isaac?
43:04
That was the sack. I thought they were the bot
43:06
among the touches, his first touch for both goals.
43:09
Sensational. But unfortunately if you look at
43:14
I think I'm correct in saying this, he's quite fragile.
43:18
If you look at his CVI think he misses a chunks of every season
43:20
he plays in. I'm laughing because I've just
43:23
come here driving, listening to the talksport on the way, on the
43:25
way. And they had Tyson Fury saying
43:28
and he said I'm not going to fight AJ, I'm going to fight
43:31
Alexander Rizak. But it was Usik, but he was
43:35
saying, but I'm sure it came out as Isak.
43:37
I probably wanted. I don't know when Alexander's
43:39
quite up. Freud didn't slip.
43:41
Yeah. But he's a player.
43:43
You know when you're buying a player you're looking at the
43:47
negatives and the pluses. For him it was just plus plus
43:51
plus. He scores goals in the Premier
43:53
League at Newcastle. He can handle being at a big
43:56
football club in Newcastle. He's a right age, His family
44:00
have got over any settling in period, so it'll just be
44:03
seamless. He's not kept himself fit and
44:06
you look back at last year and that was his season.
44:09
Yeah, a footy sack gets in any team.
44:11
Iriola, you've been there. Obviously you've been there,
44:14
seen. Again, what advice would you
44:15
give? None.
44:16
I think I watched Bournemouth quite a bit.
44:20
The he played a brand of football that you'd want to
44:22
watch. I like him.
44:24
It's whether he can get that same tune that he demands high
44:28
energy being at that same that tune out of the Liverpool
44:32
dressing room as he got from the Bournemouth.
44:34
He was success. But my question is, I think
44:36
Liverpool, they're a bit like your old team, Chelsea.
44:40
I think you become vulnerable. See if you agree with us.
44:44
I've alluded to if your midfield's not high energy and
44:47
stopping the opposition, every team today wants to be up near
44:51
the halfway line. They want to be close to the
44:53
midfield, the back four or back three and they want to be in
44:56
touch with the strikers to to lessen opportunities where
45:00
people can pass through you. So they're up there.
45:02
So the back four up there, which makes them vulnerable to
45:05
anything, any breakaway if the midfield, they're not closing
45:08
down as a unit. If you've got 4 closing the ball
45:11
and one decides not to do it because you're not switched on
45:14
all the time. And that's happening for both
45:17
Chelsea and Liverpool, that makes them vulnerable behind you
45:20
only needs one to go to sleep for a a nanosecond and you're
45:23
vulnerable. And I think that's where Chelsea
45:25
will struggle and Liverpool will struggle as well.
45:28
But in talking about Chelsea, you're talking about Chelsea,
45:32
and I've said this to you before.
45:33
You can be a good team with a great striker or great strikers
45:37
and you could win the league. You could be an absolutely
45:40
sensational team, but you don't have an out and out goal getter
45:43
and you won't win the league. So Chelsea, I can't make my mind
45:46
up on them yet. What do Spurs have?
45:49
So far they've not shown a lot, have they?
45:51
They've not shown a lot. And that must be, I say,
45:54
distressing. I'm choosing that word correctly
45:56
for all the support and maybe doubly distressing for the
46:00
people that have spent the money on the players a lot there's.
46:03
Over 300 million, there'll be 400 million with the obligation
46:05
to buy a mamous close to the job that deserve he's got.
46:10
He talked about mentality and turning it around, which you
46:12
must scoff and laugh at that. He's got, he's got energy, by
46:16
the way, hasn't he? He's, he's quite energy, Yeah.
46:21
When you have so many changes, you're very lucky to get it
46:23
right. Poor Arne Slot made his changes
46:27
having won the league and then they had.
46:30
I saw our good friend Jamie Carriger say it was the worst
46:33
transfer window that they had a year ago and what what happened
46:37
cost him his job in the end. So whether this will go that way
46:39
or? And the guy Hughes has left
46:42
after being Richard Hughes, the main main call in the transfers,
46:46
and he's left after spending 400.
46:48
And 50 He must have been key to appointing Erola because he was
46:52
at Bournemouth, wasn't he? So I remember actually as a
46:54
player, actually, yeah. But how did you get away with
46:56
it? You spent £450 million and you
46:58
walk out the door and no doubt the land another big.
47:00
Girl. Well, he's that's why we need to
47:02
know more. I go back to the point of if I
47:04
could do one thing as a legacy and before I go to wherever we
47:08
go to next, it would be open your, open your doors.
47:14
Don't make it a secret. You want a more transparent.
47:16
Martin, I really want to ask you a couple of questions about
47:18
about your career. First of all, take yourself back
47:22
to 1990 and and Sky have come in for you.
47:26
This is before the Premier League.
47:28
Why did you leave your ITV at the time?
47:31
Why did you leave that? For no, it's another.
47:34
Sky Sports wasn't this iconic. Pro channel is now.
47:38
Do you have the vision to see where it was going?
47:39
Did you see? Absolutely not.
47:42
Like I turned down the chance in television in the 1st place that
47:46
when Jimmy Hill put me right, I turned down the chance to go
47:51
into what we call satellite television.
47:53
Then it would double my money, which wasn't a lot by the way,
47:57
so but it would have doubled it. And I had two young kids.
48:00
But I said no because it was a bit risky.
48:02
And I'm, I'm not the, the biggest risk taker.
48:06
No, I'm not a risk taker really at all.
48:08
So in the end a guy called John Hockey, who was my agent at the
48:14
time, he said, I said no one will be watching it.
48:19
And he went and I was number. I'd done the World Cup final for
48:21
ITV, but there were, Brian was still there doing a wonderful
48:24
job and Alan Perry was very ambitious.
48:26
He'd come from BBC so it was a bit of competition.
48:29
But I said, oh, I'll, I'll, I'm well looked after here.
48:33
And but John, I said nobody will watch it.
48:35
Nobody will watch it at all. And John said everybody in
48:37
football will watch it. And I went Where do I sign?
48:41
Who said that? There's a guy called John
48:43
Hockey. Oh, I still see it today.
48:46
He saw it coming. He, well he just saw an
48:49
opportunity and then I went, I had to resign from ITV when when
48:53
this was agreed. So I went and saw Greg Dyke, who
48:56
obviously had the big profile since then and at the time and
49:00
he said yeah. And I had two more years at ITV
49:02
on a contract I think. And he said, no, you can go.
49:05
I was in his office in the old London weekend building and he
49:08
got at me big enough that he walked me to the door and I
49:12
looked at the door and I said I'll be back knocking on your
49:14
door in a few weeks time and he went I don't think you will be.
49:19
He knew as an ITV executive he knew the threat and I never went
49:24
back. An interest in the.
49:25
Door I mean look so many iconic moments as well that you
49:29
commentated on and actually the things that you come out with
49:32
are up there with the greatest of any commentator.
49:34
I mean, the Aguero moment, how many people stop you in the
49:37
street? And I just, I, I did a game with
49:39
you a couple of months ago in the last season and we're
49:42
walking back because of West Ham wasn't.
49:44
It we were walking to you were guiding me back.
49:46
To I didn't guide you very well, no.
49:49
I was like I was working. People were I.
49:52
Think that's the greatest? That's the greatest bit of
49:55
commentary for a dramatic moment ever.
49:59
I would say I'll tell you you've triggered a thought in my mind.
50:04
All I can say about it is when it went to, to, I thought it was
50:09
on and in, in your mind you think, well it's if it is on,
50:14
it's going to be special. But when and I said this, I
50:18
didn't talk to Sergio about it for about 8 or 9 years
50:20
afterwards. And I did say to him, very
50:23
presumptuous of me Sergio, I knew you'd score before you did
50:27
because you took a touch and I know what a great player you
50:30
are. So I got some air in my lungs
50:32
and what came out was totally spontaneous and I never thought
50:35
and it happened, the game was over.
50:37
Then we went back to the studio where Graham was talking and
50:39
then we came back to the trophy presentation and everything so.
50:42
But Graham had arranged a an end of season dinner in Altrincham,
50:48
where the wine prices were. Extravagant, that's why, I'm
50:52
sure. But if it was Graham's choice,
50:54
everyone was going to go there. We were never going to be fed
50:56
and watered very well. I was one of the last to arrive
50:59
at the restaurant and I hadn't really thought it was a great
51:03
story. And, you know, thinking, oh,
51:06
Manchester City, typical City. They nearly blew it.
51:08
That's what City fans always said, typical City.
51:11
And they didn't. They were supposed to beat QPR.
51:13
Weren't they supposed to beat QPR straight up?
51:15
And I'm going in and they're playing, Graham's sitting at the
51:17
table and they're playing with Scott Melvin, who's of this
51:20
parish where we're Speaking of today and from today.
51:24
And then they're playing it with the commentary and I thought,
51:28
oh, that's the first time I ever thought that it might get
51:32
remembered. And Graham won't remember this.
51:35
But I then we all had to say a few things at the end of it.
51:38
And I was virtually an emotional wreck because I realised that
51:43
something had happened after 38 years as a commentator that
51:46
might actually be remembered. And, and that was the first
51:50
time. So that was in that restaurant
51:52
in Otrium where I didn't have to pick up the bill.
51:54
Thanks. But I would have done, by the
51:57
time I realised that somebody that I actually like what I
52:00
said, I would have paid for. It that's a greatest bit of
52:03
commentary I think in my lifetime.
52:06
I know that you it's all over now, the World Cup 66.
52:12
I'm told that happened in the World Cup.
52:15
I think you're bit aware I was just sensational, but it was.
52:18
It was their moment, there was Sergio's moment, nice cities
52:20
moment and to me it was Victoria.
52:22
Wakeley was my boss and he sent me to the game so I had phoned
52:27
him as soon as I could to say thank you.
52:29
But because you're not, it happens, It happened.
52:31
Brian Moore, Anfield, probably I shouldn't mention that, rather
52:34
like England, but that was one of those moments and a few
52:38
others as well. You have to be there with the
52:40
microphone and hopefully take the opportunity.
52:44
But that's your best. What was your worst?
52:46
Oh, there's too many to mention. Too many to mention.
52:49
Yeah, as I come and take, you know, it can't be perfect.
52:52
You can keep trying and I'll go to my game on Wednesday.
52:55
Striving for the impossible really.
52:57
You still want to try and get it as near to that.
52:59
But the big moments do matter. And and somebody, I won't name
53:03
him, but he, he was a Premier League manager while you work it
53:07
out. He'd taken Reading to promotion
53:09
that season and so Reading was one of my early games the next
53:14
season, 20/12/2013. So they were playing at AFC
53:18
Women that Kings Meadow pre season.
53:20
So I've got myself there. I'll have a look at they're all
53:22
there like 25 players who are going to play part of the game.
53:25
And the manager came up to me and said, oh, by the way, well
53:27
done in May with that. And they said like I said what I
53:30
always say, which is Sergio's moment and and Man City's
53:33
moment. He said no, no, this is not
53:36
exactly what he said, but you've worked the rest out.
53:38
He said no, you could have messed it up, but he didn't use
53:41
the word mess. And I can't even in a podcast
53:45
broadcast, I can't say what it meant.
53:46
And that's that, that's, I'm glad that was the case because
53:50
it was, it was a fantastic football moment.
53:54
Martin, you are one of the most humble men I've I've ever come
53:57
across. You don't still to this day
53:59
don't realise that you're one of the greatest ever commentators
54:01
this country's produced and even after the.
54:04
Greatest. The greatest?
54:05
Yeah, even after the first decade of the Premier League,
54:09
you won the the. Yeah, they abolished the award
54:12
after. That because they knew you'd
54:14
probably win it every single time and you did last that.
54:17
That has it has made the move from my old house to my new
54:20
house. I know who else I think is up
54:23
there with you. Clive Tillsley.
54:26
I liked him as well. You worked with Clive?
54:27
Didn't you do do some stuff? Yeah, he was just a young
54:32
summaries to me. I like this commentary as well.
54:35
I still, you're still. Very.
54:37
We're both still working that that must.
54:39
Have that tells you everything, yeah.
54:40
My own next to the Moore was up there.
54:42
Clive would want me to point out he's a lot younger than me, So.
54:45
And Brian was, yeah. I mean, I was in the next office
54:48
to Brian Moore. When you imagine going into
54:49
television, Brian Moore's the next office, he's talking on the
54:51
phone like I'm listening to my commentary on my television at
54:54
home. Passion, wonder.
54:56
Just wonderful. Who are your favourites?
54:57
Then give me your top three. Oh no, I, I.
55:01
I will just name 5 that. Are no, I'm going to name now.
55:03
Give me give us five or three Co commentators that you were.
55:07
Now the Co commentators are all like my children and, and, and
55:10
you've you've got children. And if I say who's your
55:12
favourite child, you'll go well no, I can't tell you that, but I
55:15
did with a football manager who's managing in the League 2,
55:19
who's Irish. And again, that's a story that I
55:22
would like to clear with him. So I'm not going to mention his
55:24
name. I said this to him about he
55:26
asked me about my my favourite coke on my head wasn't.
55:28
I said no, no, you can't choose your favourite child.
55:31
He said oh I can my daughter. That was the other time.
55:34
We said just the other day depends who behaves best on that
55:37
day well. So, but I love there's nobody
55:40
that I've worked with. I've gone.
55:42
I'll go because don't forget I'm still starry eyed about this.
55:47
You guys have achieved what I tried to achieve.
55:49
You know, I would love to have won the FA Cup, won the
55:52
Champions League. I'd love to.
55:53
I've commentated on all those things, which is in my world, of
55:56
course, a little bit of an achievement, I guess.
55:59
I texted one of your favourites, one of your favourite children,
56:02
I have to say Alan Smith. He told me last night you were
56:04
the one that you would be renowned for having to get there
56:08
hours and hours early and you and him and have arguments.
56:10
About time because he wanted to eat one time.
56:12
You were stressed and you, you couldn't handle it.
56:14
And you, you, you turned up two hours before.
56:16
For you, that was. That was far too close to.
56:18
Yeah, it was. That was interesting to tell you
56:20
what it was. It was West Ham against Everton
56:22
and it was a hurricane. I'm on the M25 on the South
56:25
side. It's got you now.
56:26
You know the M25 and you've been on it plenty of time.
56:29
So I'm on junction 9, going round over the crossing to West
56:34
Ham, coming back in again. And I couldn't get to #8 for two
56:37
hours. And some of my colleagues were
56:40
phoning me stationary saying, oh, you're not going to get
56:44
here. And then the police came past
56:46
and I said, can I go up on the hard shoulder because I've got
56:49
to commentate on this game for Sky Sports.
56:51
And the policeman looked out and ran down the window.
56:53
He said they'll have to get somebody else there, won't they?
56:56
That's all they said. Yeah, and I did get there about
56:59
an hour and three quarters before the game.
57:01
Everton won one nil. Lee Carsley scored the goal, but
57:04
I never felt right. But young Wayne Rooney was on
57:08
the bench. I think maybe came.
57:09
I never, you know, it's that kind of everybody's got their
57:12
ritual, haven't they? I am doing Sky Sports right.
57:18
Quick question for you both. Big European Knights, Champions
57:22
League, 10 minutes before we're going on air.
57:26
A foreign gentleman would turn up with his golf clubs.
57:28
Sorry I'm late. He goes straight to the chair in
57:32
the studio. He's having his makeup put on
57:35
when the music's being played the start of the game and he
57:39
would turn around and say what game is it time doing?
57:43
Name names. Graham No foreign gentleman tall
57:47
worked at your football club, Chelsea I.
57:49
Think I know what you mean. Go on root.
57:51
Root. Honestly I'm only telling him
57:55
that like 6 minutes before kickoff.
57:57
He helped us win the FA Cup. Graham, I cannot have a go.
58:00
What a boy he was. And by the way, still is.
58:03
Yeah, absolutely. What preparation?
58:05
Talent all winner as well. I've got some stories on him.
58:08
That's for another day. Listen, Alan Smith also told me
58:10
as well. He's never known anyone so in
58:12
love with the game and obsessed with it in the way that you are.
58:15
And clearly and apologies for revealing your age, but it just
58:18
goes to show there's not many people that can stand the test
58:21
of time in the way that you have.
58:21
Martin, it's been an absolute pleasure.
58:23
Thanks for coming in. It's an honour for me, honestly.
58:26
I should be interviewing you guys, I promise you, and we've
58:28
got through it anyway. Thanks for coming in, pleasure.