Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Perry Sheraw and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Perry Sheraw and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

0:16
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
0:19
Connections, the show where relationships aren't
0:23
collected, they're built. I'm Michael Forman,
0:26
and today we're tackling a topic every entrepreneur
0:29
uses, but very few use email. Email isn't just
0:34
a tool, it's a follow -up. It's a reputation.
0:37
It's what people remember about you long after
0:40
the event ends and the business cards disappear.
0:43
My guest today... lives at the intersection of
0:47
email marketing, automation, and entrepreneurship.
0:50
And she knows how to turn simple messages into
0:56
real conversations that actually move business
0:59
forward. If you've ever wondered why or how to
1:02
stay on top of mind without being annoying, which
1:06
I try to all the time. how to keep relationships
1:09
warm without chasing people, or how systems can
1:12
support connections instead of replacing it.
1:17
You're in the right place. I'd like to welcome
1:20
to the podcast Perry. Perry, I'm very interested
1:24
in what you have to say today, but why don't
1:27
you give us like the cliff notes of how you got
1:29
here today. Yeah, thank you so much, Michael,
1:32
for having me on your podcast. The cliff notes
1:35
of how I got here today are a little bit off
1:39
the beaten path, but I started as a news reporter
1:42
for the Cincinnati Inquirer in the 90s, before
1:45
the internet was really a thing, especially in
1:47
journalism. And so I started as a writer, and
1:51
then I ended up moving to the Virgin Islands
1:55
in the early 2000s, and strangely enough, worked
1:59
for a national. mergers and acquisitions firm
2:02
that was based out of there. And so I started
2:05
to really develop my career in marketing from
2:07
there by piecing together a CRM system that was
2:13
Frankensteined from a database and something
2:16
called Sage Sales Logics. And so it just pieced
2:21
all of that together and started to really, I
2:25
was at the pioneer stage of piecing together
2:29
the idea of marketing and sales, communicating
2:32
together to create things like icebreakers and
2:35
a variety of touch points for marketing to help
2:40
sales ultimately influence friends and win over
2:44
people. Great, great. I've amassed a few questions.
2:49
I'm going to get them to you. Let's just see
2:53
where that takes us. Most people think networking
2:56
starts with a conversation. You work in email.
3:00
Where do you believe real connection actually
3:03
begins? I have always believed in the power of
3:09
the written word to be conversational. And I
3:13
think that was what made me a natural fit for
3:15
journalism back in the day before it was digital.
3:19
And I always tried to write and I always told
3:22
myself, write this like you're telling it to
3:24
someone. And so I believe that I have carried
3:28
that over into email. And I do believe that a
3:31
lot of conversations start in email. And I think
3:33
that. They are very powerful conversations because
3:36
people can go back and refer to them and they
3:40
can save them until they're ready to carry on
3:42
the conversation. So I do believe that email
3:45
has the power of conversation baked into it and
3:49
that everyone's sending an email. And I know
3:52
a lot of emails are written through AI right
3:54
now, and I think that's totally fine. And I think
3:57
that AI is really trying to be as conversational
4:00
as possible with things like anthropology. hiring
4:03
a philosopher to make AI more human and those
4:07
types of things. But I do think that before you
4:10
hit send on an email, even if AI wrote it, you
4:13
should look at it and say, do I talk this way?
4:15
Is this how I would communicate with someone?
4:18
Because if not, it's the sting of something that
4:22
is totally ignorable because it's not conversational
4:26
and it's not interesting to the person that's
4:27
receiving it. I agree. I wholeheartedly agree.
4:32
AI is a tool that you can use. And that's all
4:36
it really is. It can't replace your meeting,
4:39
your talking with somebody. But you have to go
4:42
over your AI because you can't just copy and
4:45
paste and say, that's it. You have to read it
4:48
and say, does this sound like me? Exactly. If
4:52
it doesn't, then the person receiving it will
4:55
just go, all right, this is AI and I don't want
4:57
it. Exactly. In fact, when I would create messages
5:01
for sales enablement, it was mandatory for myself
5:05
and my team to always meet with salespeople and
5:08
role play. So that I understood how that salesperson
5:12
would speak. And this is before AI. This is when
5:14
I was acting like AI, right? And creating these
5:17
emails and sequences for sales. And it's so important
5:21
that what you say in an email is because it's
5:25
a touch point. These are layered touch points
5:27
that you're building the relationship with each
5:30
of these touch points, whether it's SMS or email
5:32
or push notifications or anything that you're
5:35
doing that's digital communication. That is one.
5:38
piece of the conversation and it needs to be
5:41
cohesive and consistent with what you would normally
5:45
say to someone. Absolutely. I agree a hundred
5:48
percent. What mistakes do you see entrepreneurs
5:52
make when they treat email like a broadcast instead
5:56
of a relationship? That's a big one. I know that
6:01
number one, I just always encourage entrepreneurs
6:04
to start and use the channel. And so if broadcast
6:07
is what you can do, try and make it personalized,
6:10
at least try and make it come from your voice
6:14
and be helpful. OK, so if you can only get one
6:18
batch and blast email out a month, do it. It's
6:22
better than not doing it, in my opinion. And
6:24
then the next thing is, if you can just take.
6:28
Three set of goals is make three basic segments
6:32
out of your database and then identify a way
6:36
to talk differently. Even if it's once a month
6:39
and even if it's still batch and blast for those
6:41
segments, take three different approaches with
6:46
those segments. For e -commerce, it's easier.
6:49
You can say purchasers versus non -purchasers.
6:52
If it's B2B, then try and find a nuance in each
6:56
vertical. separate it by verticals and do more
7:00
than just personalization with name and personalization
7:03
with business name those types of things try
7:07
and find something that is helpful to that person
7:09
because of who they are and utilize that I see
7:13
a lot of cold emails for example that come out
7:16
that that scrapes something off of my LinkedIn.
7:20
And I get that. I get that is one way to try
7:24
and personalize. But you know what? The emails
7:26
that I read, and I read a lot of emails, but
7:29
the emails that I read are emails that actually
7:33
give me something helpful that I can take and
7:35
possibly make some revenue off of or improve
7:38
my learning. So down the road, I can make some
7:41
revenue off of it. So I would say in a nutshell,
7:45
be helpful. Whether you can segment or not, just
7:48
be helpful. You have to bring, all my clients,
7:54
they ask me about LinkedIn because I use LinkedIn
7:57
as a business tool. But I say, before you try
8:01
to sell anything, you have to create value. between
8:05
yourself and your connection. And once you establish
8:09
the value three, four, five times, then you can
8:13
go in and ask for a cup of coffee or a virtual
8:16
cup of coffee. And so you can't, I hate those
8:19
events, those networking events where a guy walks
8:22
up to you, hands you a business card, say, hey,
8:24
I'm this way and you can, I sell this and this
8:26
for only, for sale just for today only. I want
8:30
to throw the guy right out. It's the same thing
8:32
connection -wise, and you just have to bring
8:35
value to the relationship. Yeah, absolutely.
8:38
And I think it's funny when I think about it
8:41
from my personal experience that I'm more comfortable
8:44
building that value layer through email and through
8:50
marketing touchpoints sometimes than I am in
8:52
-person networking events, which is why I'm the
8:54
marketer and behind the keyboard. And other folks
8:58
are the salespeople who can really make that
9:00
nuance work in person. Being as I've been in
9:03
sales for 40 years. And one thing I've learned
9:06
is that when you go to these events, you go with
9:09
what's called a servant's heart. You go in looking
9:12
to give, not receiving. Go in looking to give.
9:16
It takes all the pressure off your shoulders.
9:19
You're saying, how can I make you more successful?
9:23
And by doing so, it releases all the pressure
9:26
and you can enjoy yourself a lot more. And I
9:29
think that's exactly what you have to do with
9:31
digital communications also. And I think that
9:35
it's critical that you go into it trying to be
9:39
helpful, trying to give first. And that is where
9:43
you're going to start to engage and you'll be
9:45
able to take the relationship to the next level.
9:48
Okay. How can someone turn a single in -person
9:52
connection into a long -term conversation through
9:57
email without sounding transactional? Great,
10:01
great question. What I would recommend that you
10:04
do is develop a persona around that individual.
10:09
What do you know about that person? In sales,
10:11
I'm sure you would do your research. You'd look
10:13
at their LinkedIn, you'd look at any web material,
10:16
you'd look at any history that they have, and
10:19
you'd frame your conversation around what you
10:21
know about them. And so you need to do the exact
10:25
same thing in email and frame that communication
10:28
around how you could potentially be helpful to
10:32
them, how you can break the ice with that email
10:35
communication and establish a relationship without
10:40
coming out sounding transactional or sounding
10:43
like you just are reaching out to them because
10:46
you want something. Exactly. Perfect. Absolutely
10:49
perfect. Information scares a lot of people because
10:53
they think it removes the human element. Where
10:56
does automation actually strengthen trust when
11:00
done right? We know because of automation, we
11:05
know and we have the ability to scale, to talk
11:08
to someone where they are in our customer journey,
11:10
as opposed to the past where we really didn't
11:13
have any idea about them. Or if we did, it was
11:16
too vast to even tap into. And so now we are
11:20
able to say, hey. I want to talk to you about
11:24
this specific topic because of your behavioral
11:28
data that I have in my automation system. And
11:33
so it makes it a much more personalized and relevant
11:36
and helpful conversation because you can actually
11:40
speak to them where they are in your journey.
11:43
Very good. What's one email most professionals
11:47
should be sending after they meet someone, but
11:51
almost never do? That recap email. The recap
11:55
email with next steps and with follow up. opportunities
12:00
and follow -up instructions, whatever's relevant
12:03
there. But that recap email is so important.
12:06
And it's funny how rarely we receive that. I
12:09
sign up for a lot of demos. I sign up for a lot
12:11
of sales discussions, part out of curiosity,
12:15
part because as an agency owner and with multiple
12:17
clients who need different tools at their disposal.
12:21
And it is interesting how rarely sales professionals
12:25
send that follow -up email. And it's something
12:27
that can be automated. Or easily templated, but
12:32
still stay personal by just going in and adding
12:34
a couple of lines in that email about something.
12:39
Personal that came from the conversation. Hey,
12:42
Perry, as we discussed, I hope you're having
12:44
a great day in the Virgin Islands or Colorado.
12:47
And then the rest of it's templated. And then
12:49
your follow -up contact information. Don't hesitate
12:52
to reach me by cell. Those types of personal
12:55
touches. I think those can really move a deal
12:58
along. I agree. It amazes me at how many people
13:03
don't do it. Don't follow up with that email.
13:07
They follow up. First of all, that's half my
13:10
talk. I go around the country and I say that
13:13
follow up is probably more important than actually
13:16
meeting the person. But the time it takes the
13:20
person to follow up and then how many times all
13:24
this comes into play. It's amazing how many salespeople
13:28
don't have a clue. Yeah. And it also is interesting
13:32
because they're. I can remember in 2002 when
13:36
I was saying I Frankensteined a CRM together.
13:39
There are so many tools today that can be configured
13:43
to make that follow -up very automated, even
13:47
allow you to add personalization, but it can
13:50
make it a very streamlined process for you so
13:53
that part of your SOP is phone call hung up,
13:57
disposition the phone call. Template comes up
14:00
on the screen. You add a few personal touches
14:03
to it, hit send, and you haven't even spent five
14:06
minutes after that phone call and that communication's
14:09
out there. Right. From your experience, what
14:14
separates emails that get ignored from emails
14:18
that start real dialogue and opportunity? Okay,
14:22
so that's the segmentation is where it starts,
14:25
right? So making sure that you have identified,
14:28
and let's say that it's one -to -one, then segmentation
14:31
isn't really the issue. But if you're sending
14:34
to a larger audience, segmentation is number
14:37
one, and then one -to -one or larger audience,
14:40
the next thing is going to be your subject line.
14:43
And that subject line, and if you have the opportunity
14:47
to enter pre -header text or the first line of
14:50
the email, Very important. And the subject lines
14:53
that typically win are subject lines that are
14:57
adding value. So you should ask yourself, am
15:01
I adding value? And clearly communicating that
15:04
in the subject line. I know there's a huge trend
15:08
on subject lines that intrigue or ultimately
15:12
misrepresent. what the email is about. And that
15:15
is something that I would caution strongly against.
15:18
Never, you're betraying trust at the first touch
15:21
point when you do that. And so I would not resort
15:25
to gimmicks. I would just try your best to resort
15:28
to or to pull and draw on how your subject line
15:32
is adding value and can be helpful if the person
15:35
opens that email. Yeah, there are small books
15:38
written. just for the subject line of an email.
15:42
Because it can be off the chart. But I would
15:45
make it short, concise, and with what you're
15:48
talking about. Don't make it something completely
15:50
different. You don't want to fake somebody out
15:53
because I think that will annoy somebody more
15:56
than get their attention. That's exactly right.
16:00
And this is going back to AI as a tool. That
16:03
is where AI can be a huge help. You enter the
16:07
proper prompt, which don't be afraid of prompts,
16:11
right? If you're not already using AI, it's just
16:13
basically asking it exactly what you want. That's
16:16
your prompt and giving it examples of past communications
16:20
and the communication that's underneath the subject
16:22
line and asking for 15. Great examples of that,
16:28
of subject lines that would work with that. The
16:31
AI prompt, you have to really hone in on exactly
16:36
what you want your prompt to be. And don't expect
16:39
it like the first, second, third or fourth try,
16:41
because you have to continually drill down on
16:45
it and expand what you want to say. And then
16:48
it'll just give you a prompt. That's right. I
16:50
usually wind up asking AI. What prompt should
16:54
I use if I'm trying to get this result? That's
16:59
right. And it'll tell me the proper prompt. And
17:02
then I tell the prompt and then I get. A lot
17:05
better. It is. AI is a conversation too. You're
17:09
conversing with AI there. And it's not just one
17:12
language model that you use. I use regularly
17:16
Gemini, Perplexity, Claude, and ChatGPT, all
17:21
for different aspects of my daily life. Yeah,
17:26
absolutely. As do I. How can entrepreneurs use
17:31
email to stay top of mind with their network
17:34
without becoming that person in the inbox? Oh,
17:39
yeah. So that is going to come back to understanding
17:43
how regularly this contact might engage with
17:49
your material, understanding that person's sales,
17:52
the sales cycle. dealing with this person. For
17:56
example, if you have a seasonal, a business that
18:01
has a seasonal component, if we have a supplement
18:05
company and they offer a big sale, Black Friday,
18:08
Cyber Monday, and they have certain purchasers
18:11
who wait and buy their year's supply during Black
18:16
Friday, Cyber Monday. And so those people I identify
18:20
them in a segment and I say, these people should
18:24
probably get a monthly touch point to stay top
18:27
of mind. So I'm going based on their behavior.
18:30
And that's probably the best example I can give
18:33
that if you can identify when these people are
18:36
most likely to engage with you based on your
18:39
business and sales cycle, then you can identify
18:42
what kind of cadence you should communicate with
18:44
them to remain top of mind without being annoying.
18:48
Absolutely. Absolutely. What signals in someone's
18:53
email communication tell you instantly whether
18:56
they value relationships or just results? Interesting.
19:02
That's a good question. So I would say your...
19:07
Open rate signals, some of that depends on content,
19:11
right? But your open rates can help you understand.
19:14
And if someone's consistently opening but not
19:17
clicking or engaging by calling you or taking
19:22
some other kind of action, your open rates would
19:25
probably indicate more of a relationship because
19:27
they haven't unsubscribed, they haven't reported
19:30
you as spam or anything like that. But they're
19:32
reading your emails. And so if you've got the
19:35
ability to see, that's one way. to identify that
19:38
they are just learning from you and that relationship
19:41
is building. If they are clicking through, and
19:44
this is one thing I always recommend, to have
19:46
CTAs in your email that indicate interest, right?
19:51
You send four or five emails to an individual,
19:53
maybe three are general and informative, but
19:57
maybe two indicate a hot lead. And so when they
20:00
click through on the hot lead, then you know
20:04
that's a good time to make your phone call. Or
20:06
that's a good time to escalate the communication
20:09
into something that might be more deal closing.
20:13
Absolutely. And that call to action, it amazes
20:17
me how many times an email is sent with absolutely
20:21
no call to action. And it's just like they cross
20:24
their fingers and hope that somebody is going
20:27
to reply to it or go further. But there's absolutely
20:30
nothing to tell them. That amazes me. If you
20:34
stripped away funnels, tools, and tech, what
20:38
does genuine connection through email really
20:41
come down to? Wow. So no automation, no tech,
20:47
no. true segmentation because you wouldn't be
20:50
able to. So this is going back in time. And that
20:54
is basically saying, hey, reply to me and I can
21:01
give you a little more information on X, Y, Z.
21:05
That's a tactic for how you would do that. Again,
21:09
you're still being helpful, but you're offering
21:11
to open up the communication in an unthreatening
21:15
way. We know we're not talking about a phone
21:17
call. I know a lot of people don't like to get
21:20
hung up on phone calls and that sort of thing.
21:22
So at the very onset of the relationship, if
21:25
you offer someone without any kind of ability
21:29
to click through, fill out a form or anything
21:31
like that, you offer someone an opening to start
21:35
an interesting conversation that adds value by
21:38
simply replying to this email. I think that is
21:42
probably the best step forward. Okay. All right,
21:46
Perry, let's bring this podcast full circle.
21:49
For someone listening who hates networking events,
21:53
I hope not because that's what I'm all about.
21:56
What role can email play in building profitable
22:00
relationships quietly and consistently? Ooh,
22:05
that starts before the networking event, if possible.
22:08
And so if you understand a little bit about...
22:11
the folks who will be attending that networking
22:13
event, just sending a simple message that says,
22:18
hey, I noticed that you're going to be attending
22:20
this networking event also, and I'd really love
22:23
to connect with you. I've got a couple of ideas
22:26
that you might find helpful, or I just would
22:29
love to learn a little bit from you about what
22:33
is important to you right now. Of course, that
22:36
would be tailored to the event and to the individual.
22:40
But then, Following up from that event and within
22:43
the first two days, ideally after the event,
22:46
following up, this was amazing. I really enjoyed
22:50
this event. It was just incredible to meet you
22:52
and to learn a little bit more about your business.
22:55
It made me think of this app. Or our conversation
23:00
made me think of this downloadable, just offering
23:04
something and follow up. And then also trying
23:07
to set up a time where maybe it's a lunch date.
23:11
Maybe it's just a phone call. Maybe it's a coffee.
23:13
Depending on the interaction and the opportunities
23:17
that would follow, just follow up with something
23:20
actionable and helpful. Okay, Perry, that was
23:24
great. Perry. How can somebody get hold of you
23:28
if they want to acquire your services or just
23:31
say hi? What's the best way for them to get hold
23:34
of you? The best way is parishirah .com. And
23:38
from there, I also have an agency called dumacx
23:43
.com. And so, you know, either parishirah .com,
23:48
really, that would be the best first step. Just
23:50
reach out to me there. And it's got all my contact
23:52
information right on the homepage. Great. What
23:56
a conversation. If there's one takeaway from
23:59
today, it's this. Connections don't fade because
24:03
people forget. You just stop showing up in a
24:06
meaningful way. Email, when used with intention,
24:10
becomes your quiet follow -up partner. It keeps
24:13
doors open. It keeps conversations alive. And
24:17
it gives your network a reason to remember you.
24:20
If this episode sparked an idea, a question,
24:23
or a, wait, I should fix that moment, good. That's
24:28
where progress starts. And if you're listening,
24:32
thinking, I need to communicate better, communicate
24:35
smarter, or turn conversations into real opportunities,
24:40
that's exactly the work I do. You'll find ways
24:44
to connect with me in the show notes. Thanks
24:46
for listening to Networking Unleashed, Building
24:49
Profitable Connections. So until next time, stay
24:52
intentional, stay curious, and keep the conversation
24:55
going. Perry, again, I want to say how great
24:59
of a guest you were, and I hope to speak with
25:01
you soon. Thank you, Michael. It was really great
25:04
to be on your show. Hold on, folks. Don't go
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anywhere. Let's hear from our sponsors. David
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26:05
A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such...
26:08
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
26:12
to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
26:15
and spending your time with us. If you're interested
26:18
in my digital courses, being coached or having
26:21
me come and talk to your company, just go to
26:24
Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
26:28
networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
26:31
being present. So take what you've learned today,
26:34
get out there and make some meaningful connections.
26:38
If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't
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26:46
inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going.
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You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube,
26:54
or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.