Latest / Just Heal with Dr Jay / Who Heals the People Who Heal Everybody Else with Pastor Phillip Anthony | Season 2 Premiere

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Who Heals the People Who Heal Everybody Else with Pastor Phillip Anthony | Season 2 Premiere · Just Heal with Dr Jay

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: One of the disservices we've done in the body of
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  Speaker 1: Christ is that we have preached mountaintops, like you said,
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  Speaker 1: and I agree a thousand percent. But we have not
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  Speaker 1: given people a proper hermeneutic for suffering. And suffering is
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  Speaker 1: part of the Christian experience. And this is one of
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  Speaker 1: the reasons like what I would call the Western version,
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  Speaker 1: I would call American Christianity has done us a disservice.
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  Speaker 1: Because in Western Christianity, we preach a Jesus who gives
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  Speaker 1: us an easy flight without suffering. But suffering is actually
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  Speaker 1: part of not only the human experience, but it's part
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  Speaker 1: of the Christian experience. There will be no believer who's
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  Speaker 1: truly born again and saved will go all the way
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  Speaker 1: with the Lord Jesus Christ to the end and not
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  Speaker 1: experience suffering. What's up, guys?
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Just Heal with Dr. J.
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  Speaker 2: And I am your host, Dr. J.
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  Speaker 1: Barnett.
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  Speaker 2: Listen, this episode I'm excited about when the team reached
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  Speaker 2: out to me about interviewing my brother, this man of
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  Speaker 2: God who has just taken the world by storm. I
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  Speaker 2: was just honored and humbled to have the opportunity to
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  Speaker 2: sit with him. And as you know, we have conversations
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  Speaker 2: around healing. And what we're hoping today is that this
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  Speaker 2: conversation will bring some healing as he's sharing his message
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  Speaker 2: so boldly and unapologetically. And I'm just so grateful to
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  Speaker 2: have my good brother, man, Pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell, man.
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  Speaker 1: How you doing, brother? I'm doing good, man.
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  Speaker 2: Listen, man, welcome to the healing community, man. That's what
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  Speaker 2: I call this, the healing community, man. Most of the
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  Speaker 2: people who follow my work and follow this podcast in
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  Speaker 2: some way are looking for healing, healing of the mind,
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  Speaker 2: healing of the soul, healing of the body, which I
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  Speaker 2: believe all of that is our mental health. And as
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  Speaker 2: we dive into this conversation today, and dive into your journey, uh,
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  Speaker 2: of mental health, uh, before we get into your new
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  Speaker 2: book that you have coming out next week. Um, if
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  Speaker 2: you can share a little bit, like I've done the
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  Speaker 2: research and all those different things, but I'll always love
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  Speaker 2: to hear, hear from the guests and I'll get into, uh,
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  Speaker 2: some other questions about just your ministry.
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  Speaker 1: But when did.
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  Speaker 2: You notice, uh, or when did you identify that mental
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  Speaker 2: health was real for you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, First, again, just thank you for having me
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  Speaker 1: on the platform. I appreciate it. No, thank you. And
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  Speaker 1: shout out to what you're doing. I think what you're
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  Speaker 1: doing is critically important, absolutely necessary in the body of Christ.
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  Speaker 1: For me, it became real in 2017. I suffered a
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  Speaker 1: betrayal that really sunk me into a depression in that
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  Speaker 1: season of my life. And that season of depression lasted
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  Speaker 1: for about five years. You know, I write about that
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  Speaker 1: in my book in chapter five. And it was during
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  Speaker 1: that time I realized the seriousness of mental health, not
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  Speaker 1: only for me, but the mental health crisis in America
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  Speaker 1: and in the body of Christ specifically. Around that time,
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  Speaker 1: I was pastoring, but battling a deep depression that I
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  Speaker 1: could not pray my way out of there. I was embarrassed.
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  Speaker 1: I was ashamed. And it was my wife who kept
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  Speaker 1: coming to me and challenging me, like saying, honey, you
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  Speaker 1: really need to get help in this area. But my
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  Speaker 1: pride at the time would not allow me to listen
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  Speaker 1: to her. And so I continued to try to. push
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  Speaker 1: through that battle on my own. At some point in time,
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  Speaker 1: I did concede and I went out to get the
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  Speaker 1: help that I need. And that help came in the
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  Speaker 1: form of counseling. It came in the form of medication,
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  Speaker 1: increased accountability. And God worked through these other agents outside
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  Speaker 1: of my own prayer to walk me out of that
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  Speaker 1: dark season that lasted about five years. And had I
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  Speaker 1: not gotten that help, I'm not sure I would have
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  Speaker 1: survived that season. Wow. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: You see a lot of pastors, but I've counseled a
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  Speaker 2: lot of pastors and walked with a lot of men
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  Speaker 2: that lead lay members. Do you feel most of them
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  Speaker 2: try to preach through their mental health challenges?
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  Speaker 1: That's a good question. Obviously, anything I say right now
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  Speaker 1: is pure conjecture. But I would probably say yes. Again,
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  Speaker 1: pure conjecture. I would say yes because I think there
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  Speaker 1: is oftentimes a negative stigma. around the mental health challenge,
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  Speaker 1: especially in the body of Christ. There is something in
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  Speaker 1: us who are believers who think that we can't pray
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  Speaker 1: our way out of everything without seeing that God uses
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  Speaker 1: other agents outside of ourselves to step into that dark
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  Speaker 1: space with us, right? And that's where I was. I
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  Speaker 1: thought that I can pray my way out. I did
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  Speaker 1: not foresee that God would use counseling as one of
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  Speaker 1: his graces to help me come out of that dark space.
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  Speaker 1: or even medication to help me come out of that
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  Speaker 1: dark space. And I think right now, as you and
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  Speaker 1: I are having this conversation, probably all across the country,
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  Speaker 1: probably around the world, there are leaders of churches who
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  Speaker 1: I would call silent sufferers who are doing their best
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  Speaker 1: to lead their families, lead their ministries, but are dying
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  Speaker 1: on the inside and probably feel trapped by the stigma
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  Speaker 1: around mental health. They probably feel ashamed and feel that
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  Speaker 1: they would let their people down if their people knew
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  Speaker 1: that they were struggling But at the same time, there
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  Speaker 1: are probably people sitting in their congregations who are battling
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  Speaker 1: just the same. And this is why I believe people
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  Speaker 1: who sit in positions of leadership or authority or influence,
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  Speaker 1: we actually help more people by revealing our humanity every
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  Speaker 1: now and then. Absolutely. I think when we have a
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  Speaker 1: veneer of perfection, we rob people of hope. We allow
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  Speaker 1: people to think that we have come to a place
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  Speaker 1: of strength and spiritual maturity that they can't get to.
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  Speaker 1: And so then idolization begins to happen. And we're about
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  Speaker 1: to put people on pedestals, not realizing that they're struggling
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  Speaker 1: with things just like us. And so I'm a proponent
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  Speaker 1: for saying every now and then, to the extent that
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  Speaker 1: someone feels comfortable, it's okay to peel back the curtain,
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  Speaker 1: reveal your humanity, talk about some of your struggles. It
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  Speaker 1: gives other people hope that if this person I admire
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  Speaker 1: can survive something like that and God can bring them through,
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  Speaker 1: he can do the same for me. And I'll tell
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  Speaker 1: you this, Pastor, that's what grew your ministry. You think so? Absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: Your authenticity.
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  Speaker 2: Your authenticity, because sometimes we can pull on a pastor's divinity, uh, but.
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  Speaker 1: Then we shun his humanity.
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  Speaker 2: And I think it was your level of humanity, which
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  Speaker 2: allowing yourself to be seen because, uh, I was listening
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  Speaker 2: to one of your messages last night and, and you
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  Speaker 2: were talking about.
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  Speaker 1: Having the confession of it, but not being able to
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  Speaker 1: live it. Yeah. Right. Or the conviction.
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  Speaker 2: And so, so there, there, it's often this, this, um,
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  Speaker 2: It's as if it's a barrier between preaching it, but
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  Speaker 2: then living it, but also processing it, right? And I've
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  Speaker 2: had to say to a lot of pastors, you cannot
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  Speaker 2: preach and process.
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  Speaker 1: You got to choose.
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  Speaker 2: Because what will happen is you'll be processing while you're preaching,
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  Speaker 2: and you're bleeding on the people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I talk about that in my book. You know? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And I truly believe that as a man, because you
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  Speaker 2: know this. I mean, you're from New York, right? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: You know Concrete Jungle, right? Where are you from? I
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  Speaker 1: grew up in the South. Okay. Yeah, I grew up
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  Speaker 1: in the South, in Mississippi. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: But I've done a lot of work on the East Coast.
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  Speaker 2: And I often say this, men follow men that they respect.
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  Speaker 2: I can follow you because there's a level of respect.
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  Speaker 2: Because when a man shows his womb, I now feel
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  Speaker 2: like I can see him. But if you don't allow
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  Speaker 2: me to see your wounds, you don't allow me to
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  Speaker 2: see your scars, I don't know if I really buy
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  Speaker 2: into what you're selling because I'm like, you know what
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  Speaker 2: I'm saying? What's the gig, right? And I think that's
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  Speaker 2: something that has been very pure about your ministry to
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  Speaker 2: bear it all, right? And of course, we all know
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  Speaker 2: that comes with all type of stuff.
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  Speaker 1: Man, I first, man, I just appreciate you saying that.
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  Speaker 1: That's very encouraging to me. Right. Someone told me I'm
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  Speaker 1: a little too transparent at times and maybe I overshare.
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  Speaker 1: But just thank you for saying that. Thank you for affirming.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And, you know, I learned that from
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  Speaker 1: a greater man. Right. I learned that from the Apostle Paul. Right.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things the Apostle Paul wrote that that
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  Speaker 1: has stuck out to me is when he wrote that
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  Speaker 1: he boasts all the more in his weaknesses that the
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  Speaker 1: power of Christ can be displayed in him. And this
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  Speaker 1: is one of the reasons I personally love the back
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  Speaker 1: half of Romans chapter 7. You know, in the back
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  Speaker 1: half of Romans chapter 7, Paul says, the thing I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to do, I do. And what I should
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  Speaker 1: be doing, I don't do. And if you read the
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  Speaker 1: back half of Romans 7, he is describing this wrestle
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  Speaker 1: he has between his sinful nature and the Spirit of God.
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  Speaker 1: He does not name for us in detail whatever that
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  Speaker 1: sinful battle is, but he does describe a struggle he
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  Speaker 1: has with the flesh. And he's a man that we
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  Speaker 1: respect and admire. So I think when men do that,
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  Speaker 1: when they show that level of humanity, I just think
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  Speaker 1: it gives other people hope. And I want to not
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  Speaker 1: do ministry, do marriage, do parenting, do business, do life
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  Speaker 1: with a veneer of perfection because I'm not, right? There
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  Speaker 1: was only one perfect person who ever lived and he
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  Speaker 1: died on a cross for us and was raised for
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  Speaker 1: our salvation. So for me, I feel.
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  Speaker 1: I feel that I do more just being real about
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  Speaker 1: both mountaintops and valleys, and invite people into that struggle
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  Speaker 1: with me, with the hopes that it'll help other men see, man,
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  Speaker 1: that God will step into their space as well. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And we need that.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I think we've had enough preaching about the mountaintop,
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  Speaker 2: get the car, get the house, get the spouse, and
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  Speaker 2: not so much that, you know, all of biblical teaching
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  Speaker 2: or preaching is about the valley, but I think it's
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  Speaker 2: important to expand our minds on the duality of life.
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  Speaker 2: because I'm often telling people the practice. When I first
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  Speaker 2: started practicing as a clinician, we were by a large
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  Speaker 2: church and 70% of our clients were members of a
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  Speaker 2: very large church here in the DFW area. And, I
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  Speaker 2: was amazed of the individuals who were afraid to say
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  Speaker 2: that they were suffering.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: It was as if I admit that I am not well,
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  Speaker 2: this is an indictment on God's character or his reputation.
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  Speaker 2: And most times I was saying to them, his reputation
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  Speaker 2: is already intact.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. And I don't think he want.
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  Speaker 2: You to negate what your actual life experience is, which
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  Speaker 2: is why I think your teachings about Paul is so necessary.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Because Paul is telling you about his ministry, but he's
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  Speaker 2: also telling you about his complexities, right? He's telling you
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  Speaker 2: about his idiosyncrasies. He's telling you about his proclivities. He's
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  Speaker 2: bearing it all, right, for us to understand. And I
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  Speaker 2: think that when we're talking about God, you can't avoid
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  Speaker 2: mental health.
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  Speaker 1: Let me tell you another thing too that's powerful about
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  Speaker 1: what you're saying. At the beginning of Paul's ministry, before
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  Speaker 1: he even preached, The very first time. When God calls Paul,
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  Speaker 1: he says something very important about him that will mark
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  Speaker 1: his ministry. He said, I will show him how much
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  Speaker 1: he will suffer for my name's sake. I think one
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  Speaker 1: of the disservices we've done in the body of Christ
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  Speaker 1: is that we have preached mountaintops, like you said, and
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  Speaker 1: I agree a thousand percent, but we have not given
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  Speaker 1: people a proper hermeneutic for suffering. And suffering is part
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  Speaker 1: of the Christian experience. And this is one of the reasons,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: like what I would call the Western version I would
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  Speaker 1: call American Christianity has done us a disservice. Because in
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Western Christianity, we preach a Jesus who gives us an
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: easy flight without suffering. But suffering is actually part of
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: not only the human experience, but it's part of the
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Christian experience. There will be no believer who's truly born
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  Speaker 1: again and saved will go all the way with the
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  Speaker 1: Lord Jesus Christ to the end and not experience suffering.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, the Apostle Paul, In Philippians chapter 1, he
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  Speaker 1: attaches the word suffering and grant in the same sentence
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  Speaker 1: to say that some suffering is actually a gift from God. Now,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the suffering people experience because of disobedience, rebellion, pride, arrogance.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that. Suffering because of bad decisions.
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking about the suffering that God allows inside his will.
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  Speaker 1: And that is part of the package. And here's the thing.
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  Speaker 1: If we would be honest with ourselves. Here it is.
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  Speaker 1: If we would be honest and look over our shoulders.
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  Speaker 1: we would actually realize God has probably done more to
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  Speaker 1: shape us in our character and our faith and our
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  Speaker 1: attachment to him, to the things that we have suffered
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  Speaker 1: more than our mountaintops. Mountaintops, they last for a moment
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  Speaker 1: and we celebrate them, right? Like this Saturday, we'll do
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  Speaker 1: access at AT & T Stadium, right? There'll be 80,000
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  Speaker 1: brothers and sisters there praying. There'll be churches around the
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  Speaker 1: country praying. That's a mountaintop that will last for a moment.
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  Speaker 1: But after that, we go back to real life. And
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  Speaker 1: I have learned after two decades of walking with the Lord,
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  Speaker 1: this is my personal experience, that God has probably done
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  Speaker 1: more to shape my character as a man and as
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  Speaker 1: a leader and as a husband, as a father, and
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  Speaker 1: the things that I have suffered and not in the
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  Speaker 1: mountaintops I've stood on. Because God uses suffering for our good.
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  Speaker 1: And I want to say three things about suffering I
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  Speaker 1: think is very important. Number one, the first thing I
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  Speaker 1: want to say about suffering is that it is inevitable.
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  Speaker 1: It is unavoidable. We're going to suffer no matter what.
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  Speaker 1: And so I think we have to have a better
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  Speaker 1: hermeneutic for suffering. We have to teach people to suffer.
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  Speaker 1: So one of the things I teach people in our
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  Speaker 1: church is that you have to learn to live well
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  Speaker 1: and suffer well. You've got to do both. So that's
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  Speaker 1: the first thing. The second thing I want to say
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  Speaker 1: is that God produces in us a deeper intimacy with him,
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  Speaker 1: a deeper faith in him, and greater character development in
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  Speaker 1: our suffering. And I have a very powerful story about that.
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  Speaker 1: And then the third thing I want to say about
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  Speaker 1: suffering is this, and this is very important, okay? There
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  Speaker 1: is something in our fallen human humanity, our fallen human nature,
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  Speaker 1: that mankind is searching for utopia down here, right? And
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  Speaker 1: we are trying to comfort our life with all of
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  Speaker 1: these material things that we think is going to shield
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  Speaker 1: us from suffering in essence. Man is searching for utopia.
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  Speaker 1: Man in their heart is searching for a life so
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  Speaker 1: perfect they'll never cry again. Now, here's the thing. If
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  Speaker 1: God gave us utopia, he would be unkind, right? If
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  Speaker 1: God gave us everything we desire to make our lives comfortable,
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  Speaker 1: he will be unkind because God has gone to prepare
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  Speaker 1: a place for us. Jesus said, I am going to
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  Speaker 1: prepare a place for you that where I am, you
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  Speaker 1: will be also. There is another life coming that there
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  Speaker 1: will be no more sorrow, be no more suffering, be
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  Speaker 1: no more tears. But if everything was perfect now, we
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  Speaker 1: would have no desire for that. Come on. So there
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  Speaker 1: is something I've learned. I know what it is to
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  Speaker 1: suffer so much pain that I would be in my
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  Speaker 1: prayer closet and longing to go be with the Lord.
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  Speaker 1: Some people have not experienced pain at that level. I've
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  Speaker 1: experienced pain at the level where I said, Lord, I
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  Speaker 1: would rather go be with you But then when I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: think about 2019, when I think about the spread of
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  Speaker 1: the gospel, when I think about like, but there's a
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  Speaker 1: part of me that still has to remain and do
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  Speaker 1: your work. And what suffering does, suffering is a vehicle
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  Speaker 1: that God uses to help men lift their eyes towards
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  Speaker 1: something that is coming that's going to be much better
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  Speaker 1: than what we have right now. And if we remove
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  Speaker 1: suffering from us, we'll have no desire for eternity. There'll
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: be no desire. So God uses suffering to push the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: heart of humanity to say, we know that something is
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  Speaker 1: coming that's much better. And if he removed that from us,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: our hearts would be so tethered to this life, we
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: would never think about the world to come. But then
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the scripture said, it was good that I was afflicted.
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  Speaker 1: Come on, man, that I would learn. I would learn.
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  Speaker 1: Your ways. Your ways. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: That's, brother, when I tell you, that's so powerful because
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: what happens with substance abuse, sexual addiction, avoidant, attachment, disassociation,
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  Speaker 2: all these things, right, that we named and the mental
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: health jargon and space is what we're trying to find
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  Speaker 2: at a utopia. So I'm rolling a blunt because I'm
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: trying to ease my anxiety.
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  Speaker 1: Come on, bro.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sleeping with all these different people because I'm trying
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  Speaker 2: not to really touch this thing that's really sensitive.
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  Speaker 1: Come on.
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  Speaker 2: That I don't want to look under this rug, but
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  Speaker 2: land with another body, even if it's just for this moment,
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  Speaker 2: it allows me to escape.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And even if I can just, man, if I can
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  Speaker 2: just take a shot, man, if I can just get
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  Speaker 2: so pissy drunk where I don't remember, at least I'm
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: numb to the things I remember. And this is why
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: we have an America that is addicted, not to just
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  Speaker 2: social media, but we're addicted to narcotics. We're addicted to porn.
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  Speaker 2: We're addicted to running away because nobody wants to deal
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  Speaker 2: with it.
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  Speaker 1: And you know what's so powerful about what you're saying?
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Let's just take everything you're saying and let's put a
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: word on it. Unless you will not attach a word
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to what you said. So we'll take that whole junk
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: drawer and we'll give that junk drawer a name. I
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: would just call it Vices. And I'm gonna speak for me.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I just met you, right? But I'll assume, I mean,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you look like a hundred percent dude that you've had
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: your struggles with vices. I've had my struggles with women,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to drugs, to alcohol, all the things. I've been there. Pornography,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: all the things. Here's the thing, bro. We will run
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: through those vices. And they were momentarily satisfied. But I'm
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: going to speak for me. I'm going to jump out
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: on a limb and speak for you. But then we
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: wake up the next morning and that emptiness is still there.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And you feel worse. You feel worse. It's still there.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And one of the things I have to learn, like,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you know, breaking my addiction from pornography and lust and
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol, all those things, I've had to find
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: a new vice. So I have a new vice, right?
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I have a new vice. And my vice is my
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: secret police. It's prayer. Prayer is my new vice. One
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: of the things I've had to teach myself over the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: last two decades is that every time my heart feels heavy,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I want to carry it into the presence of God.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Every time I feel broken, I want to carry my
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: heart into the presence of God. Every time loss comes
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: up in my heart, I want to carry it to
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the presence of God. Every time pride comes up in
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: my heart, I want to carry it to the presence
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of God. So for me, I've trained myself to make
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: prayer my vice. And in doing that over a period
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: of 20 years, what has happened is all of the
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: pain I experienced And the struggles of humanity has inadvertently
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: created a deeper intimacy between Christ and I, because I
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: keep carrying all of my brokenness into his presence. So
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the prayer now is my advice. My secret place is
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: my advice. And then the thing that I would despise,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: the things that I would hate about my struggles the most,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: God has actually used it to create a stronger relationship
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: between he and I. Man, that's beautiful. Yeah. I'm going
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: to tell you why I love that.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I heard a, um, An old wise man said, if
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: it keeps you on your knees, it's good for you.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Come on, man. Come on. If it keeps you on
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: your knees, it's good for you. This is what I'm
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: saying right now. Exactly. Yeah.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And what I love about what you're saying is I
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: think for the men that watch this podcast.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: You have a lot of men that watch this podcast? Yeah.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Is that the dominant demographic? It's pretty balanced. Pretty balanced?
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: It's pretty balanced. I wrote a book titled Just Heal, Bro.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: It was for men and women? It was just for men.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Just Heal, Bro. Just Healed. Yeah, Just Heal Bro. Just
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Heal Bro. Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: went on tour for like three years, 36 cities, reached
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: 18,000 men. Wow, bro. And beautiful, man.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: It's like averaging 400, 600 men coming out.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Wow, bro. That's powerful. And what I love about what.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: You're sharing is because I read DMs that brothers would share.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: And brothers are often looking for solutions. They are. And
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: what I've had.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: To share with them is that the solution is only
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: going to be feel or be found in the disciplinary
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: of your actions or what do you do when that
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: thing comes up to what you just said?
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So me being a former athlete working out was what
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I did. But now recently over the past couple of years,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: running has become this thing that man, I play running back.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: So running was something that I, that I love to do.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: But now it's become this space where I'm talking to God. Yeah.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: And it is exactly what you said because all of
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: the things that I feel like, man, if this comes up,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I got to take it right back to him.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And I got to put it right back in his face.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And I think the challenge with most men is we
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: try to carry it.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I love what you're saying because, like, so,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you know, I got staff right now in the studio
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: with us. And we was in our van, our Sprint
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: event yesterday. We was having this conversation. I feel the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Spirit of God right now, bro. Yeah, I like what
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: we're doing right now. And I was saying to them,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you talked about being an athlete, so I know you
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: was an athlete. You said you was in the NFL
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: for a stint. One of the most powerful words that
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: we can use often is the word no. And I
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: think it is more powerful when you have the discipline
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to tell yourself no. And so this would be a
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: man who, you know, he is, there's a brother right
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: now who's watching, and he's struggling in his marriage. right,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: him and his wife is going through a difficult season.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And I know what it is to come through tense
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: situations in my marriage, especially early on, and the temptations
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that you frustrate your wife, you're going to go gratify
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: your flesh by watching pornography, right? And so I struggled
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: with that early in my marriage until my wife caught me, right,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and I had to repent, right? But I didn't have
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the discipline to tell myself no, right? And what I've
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: had to learn over time is, like, you'll go through
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: stuff in your life and be tempted to run to
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: this particular vice That is a place of familiarity for you.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And in that moment, the temptation is right there. And
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: now it's easier because you could just swipe. It's just
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it's like, no. No,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: because I know the damage this is going to do
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: to my soul. No, because I know that God is watching.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: And no, because I need to take this thing I'm
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: feeling right now and let me go carry it to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: my prayer closet, right? And so I think as men
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: who are listening right now, one, I would, if I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: could say to a brother listening, to not condemn himself, right?
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: That the struggle is part of, the human experience, but
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the failure is not in the struggle. The failure is
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: in the yielding, right? I think if somebody's struggling, you're
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: in a good place. I would say to somebody, I
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: don't know, I feel the spirit. If somebody's struggling right now,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I would say you're actually in a good place. The
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: struggle means your heart is fighting. You're warring. There is
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: something in you saying, I feel this temptation, but I'm
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: trying to push against it. So that dynamic of struggling
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: means your heart is still sensitive to God. You're still
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: in a good place. We're in a dangerous place is
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: when we keep yielding. And then when you can sin
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and sleep, if you can sin and go to sleep,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: then you're in a bad place, right? If you can
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: sin and lay down and rest, you're in a bad place.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: But if you're struggling, right? If there's a brother listening
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to me right now, I should say a sister, because
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: if you're a sister and your brother is struggling, you're
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: actually in a very good place. And it's only the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: enemy of our soul that will make us feel so
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: guilty for our struggle that he pushes to the point
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of such embarrassment and shame that we give up. And
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: then we start yielding to the thing that's pulling on us.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: That is where we need to get from. You see
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying? So I think the most dangerous place
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: is not the struggle, is the being able to sin
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and go to bed. If you can sin and go
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to bed, you're in a bad place. Man. Yeah. And
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: in your conscious. Yes. Is that Paul talked about the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: fierce conscious? Because here's the thing, though, bro. When we
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: talk about the conscious, people need to slow down and
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: look at the spelling of that word. The word conscious
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is spelled C-O-N, science. The word con means with. The
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: word science means knowledge. That means God has given every
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: human being a with knowledge, a conscience of when you're
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: doing right from wrong. It don't matter if you're saved
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: or unsaved. Every human being has been wired with a
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: with knowledge that you know what you're about to do
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: is wrong. The thing is, you have to ignore that
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: to sin and sleep. Can we go deeper? You got
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to ignore that to say there is no God, right?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Because he's put that in every single human being, right?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: And so there is something in man that we intuitively
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: know this is wrong. That's why in every... Nation on
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the planet, we know that murder's wrong, whether you're Christian
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: or not, right? We know that murder's wrong. We know
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: that killing people's wrong. Well, where do we get that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: morality from? It came from the conscious, right? So when
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that rises up in us, we have a decision to make.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: We can either keep yielding, right? And we could either
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: keep yielding to the point where we no longer feel
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the conscious talking to us, and that is a dangerous
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: place to be. Yeah. Or we could start saying the
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: conviction that I feel is actually God's kindness to lead
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: me to his presence, right? The former will create destruction.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: The latter is a measure of grace. And I pray
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: more people will see that conviction like, dang, I feel
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: bad for doing this. That's actually a good thing. And
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: that it would lead them to the presence of God. Yeah. Yeah, man.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: And I truly believe that as you're talking, it leads
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to healing. It does lead to healing, bro.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Because to be unwell and to be unhealed, it is
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: to not only just be broken and something that's not
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: fixed or something that is incomplete. I also think the
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: more that you feed the monster, as I tell guys,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: like I work with a lot of pro athletes and
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: their thing is, how do I fight the lust?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: How do I fight this feeling, this urge? Because whether you.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: basketball, football, I just think, you know, because they're in
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: a time in their lives where they're in their 20
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: and that testosterone is through the roof.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that body is talking. And
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I said, here's the thing, man. Whatever you feed grows. Facts.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I said, if you want to really get to a
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: place where you create distance from yielding, you got to
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: starve it.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bro. You have to starve it. You got to
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: starve it. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: It's the same thing when people are navigating mental health challenges, depression,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: and all those different things that you know that you
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: can live in this space of destitute, a desolate place,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: if you keep replaying the.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Story over and over and over.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And I believe, and I share this a lot of
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: times when I'm speaking to churches on mental health, if
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: you're not aware of how the enemy works through trauma,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you always remain in a traumatic space.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Bro, I chuckle because this word that you used was
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: coming up in my spirit. And you used the word aware, right?
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: And when you said that, I felt like a bomb
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: went off in my spirit because when I think about
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: mental health struggles and I think about people in that
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: dark place that are struggling, I feel like oftentimes the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: first step to winning the battle is just awareness. Where
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: is it, bro? I feel like there is so much
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: power that breaks over the things that have us bound
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: in those dark places when we just acknowledge this is
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: going on in my life. So there are people struggling
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: with mental health challenges, and they're in denial. They're in
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: a very bad place. But then there are people who
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: struggle with mental health challenges, and then they come to
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a place of awareness. They realize, you know what? I'm
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: in a bad place. I need help. And I think
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: that is the beginning of winning the battle. It starts
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: with awareness. Then it's pushing past the shame. and then
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: getting the help that we need, right? And I write
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: about that, right? Even as you like, we was talking
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: about my book earlier. I write about, I have a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: whole chapter in my book in chapter five, where I
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: talk about a five-year battle I had with depression. And
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the first part was awareness. And then it was pushing
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: through the shame and then getting the help that I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: need and watching God walk me out of that dark place.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: So I think awareness is very, very important. So I
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: love that you even mentioned that. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting here and I feel God in this space. Yeah,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I feel God right now, bro. It's heat right now. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: When you think about your new book, Contend, that word
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: contend means to fight for, right?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: When you think.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: About contend, And you're talking about the birth of a
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: burden that you have. You're talking about the walk. You're
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: talking about the church. You talk about so many facets
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: of just ministry life. What are you wanting the people
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: who are going to read contend? What are you wanting
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: them to really fight for when they put that book down?
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Man, yeah, that's a very powerful question. I would want
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: people to read that book or listen to it, either one.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And I would want them to come away with a
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: few things. I want them to first come away with
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the fact that for those who have any admiration for
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: me at all or respect my ministry to see my
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: humanity in the book. I tell a lot of stories
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: in the book. I confess my own sins. I talk
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: about when I had to apologize to my children. for
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: being physically present, but not mentally present. So first, I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to come away some sense of seeing my humanity
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: in the stories that i tell secondly i wanted to
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: come away understanding that we all have been called to
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: contend the word in greek means to agonize it means
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to to fight for and if anybody is a follower
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of jesus that calling is not for just pastors only
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: um Jude, when he writes a letter, he said to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: those who are called, to those who are kept, to
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: those who are beloved. So if anyone is called, kept, beloved,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: and that are Christians, then we all are called to contend.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: So this is a call for the entire body of
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Christ that all of us, all of us who are
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: followers of Jesus, we all have been called to contend
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: for the faith from the stay-at-home mom to the business
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: leader to the entrepreneur to the pastor to to the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: people traveling the world, to the missionaries, all of us
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: have been called to contend for the faith in any
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: sphere of influence God has placed us in the way
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that we live for Christ, in the way that we speak,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: in the way that we show up at our schools,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the way we show up on social media, it's in
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the way that we disciple our children, show up on Sunday,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: it's in the way that we hold the line when
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it comes to biblical values and biblical Christianity. Then I
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: also wanted to come with the fact that there is
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: another battle, and not only the battle happening in culture,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: but there's a battle happening inside of us, yeah, You
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: talk about this a lot. You talk about mental health.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: There's a whole chapter in that book about contending on
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the inside for the faith. Learning how to use the Psalms, community,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: God's agents, preaching to yourself. I learned that there is
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: a battle between the ears and our mind, but there's
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: also a battle in our heart and that we have
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: to contend for the faith on the inside. And then
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: the last thing I want them to come away with
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: is this. I want them to come away with the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: fact that in my estimation, we're probably living in the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: final hours of the church age. And that the headlines
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: in America and the headlines around the world are screaming
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: warnings to this generation that we're living in the final
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: hours of the church age. Every day that we get up,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: we're one day closer to the return of Christ. And
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: so because that is a true reality, time is running
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: out on us. And because time is running out on us, man,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: this is the hour for us to contend. Because if
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: we don't contend for biblical values right now, my fear
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: is that we're gonna live in America some 10, 20
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: years from now that we will not recognize. And it's
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: our children, our grandchildren are gonna suffer the consequence for
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: our indifference and our complacency. I wanna remind people that
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: the faith that we hold so dear in Christianity was
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: not born in the West. No, it was born in
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the East. And if you travel now to the East,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that's where this book was born in Turkey. There was
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: almost very little semblance of Christianity there. This also happened
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: across Africa, it's happened across Europe. happening right now in
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: america and if we don't wake up america is going
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: to look like the east and we're going to suffer
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: um for our indifference and our complacency now is the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: hour to be serious about christ now is the hour
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: to be serious about our calling now is the hour
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to contend for the faith in culture and contend for
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the faith in our heart i want them to walk
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: away with that when they finish reading the book man
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: yeah you know what.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I love about what you just shared is as from
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: a clinical lens is them being able to walk away
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: with a holistic view.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Yes. Oh, not only just this book. Yes.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: But their biblical understanding and understanding of God on a
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: deeper level.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yes. Through understanding, because it's always the fight within. Yes.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: You know, what normally happens when I'm talking to people
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: who are believers that are navigating mental health challenges, I
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: don't think their fight is with God. more so than
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: their fight is with themselves.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I agree. You know. I agree. Because God is God.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: But then if I'm losing the war within, that changes
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: how I see God.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I think if you're losing the war within, it sometimes
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: eclipses us seeing the goodness of God. There it is.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you feel like God is not present in
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that battle. That's why when I was going through my
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: mental health challenge that five years, one of the things
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: that was really a blessing to me was the Psalms. Yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Psalm 143 in particular. I love Psalm 143 because, first
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: things first, I want to say to your audience that
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: if anyone is battling mental health challenges, to not condemn themselves, right?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: It is a part of the fallen human experience. And
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I love the Psalms because the Psalms, the writers of
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: the Psalms, most of them by David, and you have
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: some others, Moses wrote some others, but the catalog of
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the Psalms, what it has done for us in humanity,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: it has given us the full range of all human
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: emotion all from anger to hope to rage to depression
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: it has the full range of human emotion and in
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: that range one of the ones i like is right
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: there psalm 143 where the writer is confessing yeah can
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: i use that word yes he's he's confessing that he
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: has grown distant from god happens to a lot of
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: people yeah he's confessing he's like where are you in
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: all of this yeah So let's just be technical. He's
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: having a mental health crisis. Psalm 143. Yes. He's acknowledging
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that crisis. He's acknowledging his distance, both in his heart
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: and his mind. He's acknowledging he has trauma. Yeah. And
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: then at some point in time, he starts to remember
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: what it was like when he was close to the Lord. Yes. Right?
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: So now he has an awareness like, man, God and
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I used to be tight. Yeah. And then he speaks
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: to himself. Yeah. Like, what is wrong with you? He
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: talks to his soul.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Like, what is wrong with you? Why are you downcast,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: oh my soul? So now he is, he in a sense,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: he's counseling himself. He's realizing I'm in a bad place.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And he makes a pivot towards God. And as he
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: makes a pivot towards God in that bad place, he
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: feels the grace of God meet him in that place.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And on the backside, man, there is a restoration between
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: him and God. And so he kind of walks us
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: through what it looks like to have a mental health crisis.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I was close to God. I grew distant from God.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I have a mental health crisis, an emotional crisis. I'm
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: in trauma. I feel like giving up. I get counseling.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: For him, it was counseling himself. I feel God come
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: near to me in that counseling. There is restoration at
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: the end. So there is like all of the different
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: stages of a mental health crisis, but it finishes with
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: restoration between him and God. I love that song.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: So my brain is turning into the therapist.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Come on, man. What he's returning back is the homostasis.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Come on, man. Talk to us about it, bro. He's
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: returning back. To his original state. To his original state.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: To his original program. Yes.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: And to the state that actually defined him because what
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: we know David throughout the scripture is his heart for God.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: His heart for God. So when his heart grew distance, right? Yeah.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: He now was operating in a clinical turn and a
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: maladaptive persona, right?
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I'm now operating in this persona that I have adapted
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: according to. Because there were some things that David put
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: himself through that brought on consequences.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: But I love that, and now that you're saying that,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I'm going to comb back through that 143.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: 143 is powerful, man.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: And this is why I tell pastors, man, you can't
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: preach without talking.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: About mental health.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And mental health for me, and the meaning that I
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: give to people whenever I'm speaking, it's.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Life in motion. I love that. Life in motion. Life
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: in motion. Bro, I got to steal that from you.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Steal it. Life in motion. Give me credit for it
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: for the first time. Yeah, I got you, bro. I
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: got you. And then the second time is yours. Yeah,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I got you, bro. Life in motion. Yeah, life in motion, man.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I love that, bro. That's what it is. It's life
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: in motion.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: And if you think about life in motion, you think
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: about a life that is constantly moving because it doesn't stop.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Whether you're on the mountaintop or whether you're in the valley,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: it doesn't stop. And what I love about your ministry, man,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and what I love about what you've done is you
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: haven't stopped moving. You know, we often hear the word pause, right?
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And sometimes when people hear the word pause, I'm often
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: talk about the Sabbath. You know, it's a day to pause.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Pause isn't necessarily me stopping, but sometimes it can be
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: a moment to cease.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Can I interject something right here? Yeah. First, man, thank
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you for that affirmation. But I do want to interject
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: something into that that I think is critically important not
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: to miss, right? Bro, I've suffered a lot of hell
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: in my lifetime, but a lot of hell in ministry.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: And I've suffered enough hell to quit. That's where I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: was going. And I've made enough mistakes. I've suffered enough
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: warfare to quit. But I... This term that you use,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: life in motion, can I tag something to that? Tag it.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: All right. I'm not sure a person could do life
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: in motion and make it to the end if they
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: don't understand the importance of two things. Number one, failures, mistakes, hardships,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: and trials, they are an inevitable part of life. But
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: then one of the things I write about in my
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: book and I've preached from my platform is that when
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: those things happen, like David, who had catastrophic failure, at
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: that point, You have a choice to make. Your failures
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: could either become a coffin that buries you. Come on.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Or a classroom that teaches you. Come on. If it
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: becomes a coffin, then there is no life in motion.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Come on. If it becomes a classroom, then it becomes
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: life in motion. Because then you learn from your mistakes
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and you continue the journey forward. Now, you and I
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: off camera was talking about something. I'm starting to feel
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: a little emotional. And I feel like we should bring
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: it up now on camera. Is that I had a
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: failed suicide attempt in my life. And you said you
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: had a failed suicide attempt in your life. So at
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: some point in time, you and I both was at
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: a place of hopelessness where we thought death would ease
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that pain. Yeah. And for me, it was a shotgun
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: on my lap and a bottle of Hennessy. And God
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: sent somebody to my apartment that talked me off that
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: ledge with her presence. Right. But I saw my failures
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: and my troubles and everything I would do in life
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: as like, this is a coffin. and I was gonna
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: bury myself in that coffin. And had I done that,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: there would be no life in motion, right? So I'm
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: just taking what you said, which I think was powerful
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: about life in motion. I think if more people can
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: look at the things that will make them feel like
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I can't bounce back from this, some mental health challenge,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: some trauma, some mistakes, some fear like David, if they
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: see that as a coffin, they will bury themselves in
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: a season or they will bury themselves physically. They will
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: unalive themselves Or they bury themselves in a season mentally, emotionally,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and there is no life in motion. Come on. They
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: make it a coffin. Come on. Or they make it
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: a classroom. They say that I can learn from this.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I could become a better man. I could become a
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: better woman, a better parent, a better spouse, a better leader.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: And now this catastrophic thing, this failure, this thing that's
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: brought on, this crisis in my life. I can use
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: it to glean from it. Yes, yes. Become more wise. Yes.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Let it shape my character.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I can have life in motion. It becomes a classroom
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: that affords me life in motion. So I would say
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: if it's a classroom, then life in motion becomes the gift. Yes.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: But if it's a coffin, then I disconnect myself from
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: life in motion. You know what I'm saying? Oh, dude.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Let me throw this in here, too. I feel the
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: spirit of God. Let me just add this, right? There
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: is somebody probably watching right now who's not only battling
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: mental health issues, maybe a mistake or failure they made,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: and the guilt is killing them, right? And I feel
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: led in the spirit to remind them, David is the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: most quoted person in the New Testament. And yet when
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: we talk about him, we only talk about his adultery
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and his murder, right? The man took a life, right,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: for the sake of a woman. but yet he's the
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: most quoted person in the New Testament. In fact, Jesus
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: calls himself a son of David. And I only mention
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: that on your podcast to give people hope that their
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: failure does not have to define them and their mistakes
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: does not have to define them and that their character
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: is not seen in a moment, but their character is
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: seen in how they respond to failure and what they
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: look like over a period of time. So I just
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: need to say to somebody who's watching right now who
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: had blown up a marriage, blown up a season, blown
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: up a job, a business, and you are in a
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: mental health crisis because you feel that some failure from
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: your past, some fall, some mistake you've done has disqualified
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: you to the point that God no longer loves you.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: You can never bounce back. Whatever the case may be,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: lies of the devil, okay? Lies of the devil. Your
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: character is seen over a lifetime in terms of consistency.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: And sometimes the greatest reflection we see in character on
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: a man and a woman is how you respond to
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: failures and mistakes and challenges and trials. One person, man,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: they bury themselves and then they become their failure. Another person,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: they learn from their mistake and becomes a better human being.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: And then we see character and how you respond to
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: what they've gone through. And so if we will have
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: life in motion, If we will have life in motion,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: if we will continue to move forward, if we would
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: make it to the end of our journey, then the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: things that bring on some of our mental health crises, hardship, trials, situation, life,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: these things have to become classrooms and not coffins. And
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I write about that in my book very extensively. Classroom
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: or coffins. It's your choice. It's their choice. I almost
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: chose wrong. But I thank God I've learned now to
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: let my mistakes teach me and not kill me. Just
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: let that sit for a moment. Yeah, man. This is
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: very serious, man. Just let that sit for a moment.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: You either choose to be in a coffin. Or a classroom.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Or a classroom. And that's something we'll do for the
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: rest of our lives, bro. Man. Yeah, man.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Brother, I know we got a hard stop, but listen,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: we got to do this again because this has been
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: so therapeutic, so cathartic, and I just thank God for
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: this moment and this time.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Me too, bro. To meet you. And I just.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Thank God for the covering that he has, not over
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: on your life, but just over your ministry.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you, man. Bishop Jake says something often, you can't
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: hide real glory.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: And this is a word to you, no matter what
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: is being said, no matter what is being typed or
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: written in a caption, you can't hide real glory. And
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: the glory that God has on your life has already
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: been spoken before you got here. There's no denying it.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: There's no questioning it. And that's not a devil in hell.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: That's not a witch. That's not a warlock. That's not
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: a demon. That's not a word curse. That's not any individual,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: any entity, any deity that can come against what God
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: has called you to do in this hour. What he
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: has called you to do in this hour is not
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: only timely, but it was destined when.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: You had that gun in your lap. This is why
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: you couldn't go.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: And everything that you overcome, overcame was for the edification
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: of Christ and what God is allowing to be lived
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: through you and through your ministry. So nothing that you're doing,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: my brother, is in vain. It is all predestined and
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: it's all intentional and it's all purposeful. So be encouraged
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: as you stand on that stage and allow God to
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: use you. And I'm praying that every angel in heaven
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: is surrounding at AT & T Stadium, that you are covered,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: that you're protected, you're shielded, and that the work that
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: God has done in you, it will be completed, and
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: that work, it can't, it can't return void.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: It's already finished. Amen. And that work is already completed, man. Amen.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that, brother.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: And the crown that God has in heaven for you, man,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: it's just unreal. but you're not going to just get
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: it in heaven, but you also want to be able
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: to have it here because I know what it's like
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: to be called to greatness, but to feel like it's
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: miserable because of the persecution. But even in what we're
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: called to do, we deserve joy. And there's that sort of,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: that wrestle that we have that Paul had because it's like, man,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I'm called to minister. I'm called to give this word,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: but it comes with a great agony.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: You know, called to lead, but wanting to follow, you know,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: called to prosper. But sometimes like, man, I wish I
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: didn't even have this.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Being poor might be all right. And not just poor financially,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: but just even in what you know. So, man, this
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: has been a blessed time that I've had with you.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: And I didn't even want to do my podcast, bro,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: the second season. And Kalen reached out to me and says, hey,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: We need to do this interview. And I know it
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: was intentional because I know God is calling me higher.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: And you're where God is calling me and not in
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: the ministry place, but seeing you and laying eyes on you.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: It is a place that God is not on calling me,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: but he's calling men.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Because it's time for us to take our rightful place, man.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: So, brother, be encouraged, man. Thank you for your ministry, man.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that, man. Thank you, man. That was very encouraging, bro. Yes, sir.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Very encouraging. Yes, sir.