Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - Christmas Special! Season 24 (featuring Mikey Smith, Robert Valentine and Toby Hadoke)

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Strictly Come Hamster - Christmas Special! Season 24 (featuring Mikey Smith, Robert Valentine and Toby Hadoke) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:02
  By our vengeance. Vengeance on whom, Kane, You're
• 0:05
  too late. All your mercenaries are dead.
• 0:07
  I can soon find. More But where will you find
• 0:09
  another home planet? Talking in riddles, Dr. Pro Amon
• 0:12
  is my home planet. Was your home planet?
• 0:15
  Take a look at your navigational equipment.
• 0:18
  It's fully operative now. Must be something wrong.
• 0:22
  Sadly not. Your planet, your people, your
• 0:25
  entire race were destroyed 1000 years after you were exiled.
• 0:30
  No, no, it's not possible. Look at the son of Pro Amon.
• 0:34
  When you left, it was a cold red giant surrounded by freezing
• 0:38
  planets. There's nothing there but a
• 0:40
  neutron star. Your son toned a supernova 2000
• 0:43
  years ago and all its planets were engulfed in the explosion.
• 0:48
  Your people were annihilated, your planet obliterated.
• 0:51
  You're too late, Cane for your revenge.
• 0:53
  You have no home. Time has flowed by.
• 1:00
  No, it shall not be. Danger Unfiltered.
• 1:05
  Sunlight. What's he doing?
• 1:08
  It's scorching. Welcome back to Strictly Come
• 1:50
  Hamster. My name is Joe Ford and Merry
• 1:55
  Christmas everybody. This episode is going out on
• 1:58
  Christmas Day. I'm not even going to introduce
• 2:00
  you people yet. Can you all say Merry Christmas
• 2:02
  to everyone? Merry Christmas.
• 2:03
  Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Joel Cole.
• 2:06
  Merry Christmas, John. And a Merry Christmas to all of
• 2:09
  you at home as well. Of course, we are here.
• 2:12
  It's Christmas, it's time for a panto.
• 2:15
  We're here today to talk about season 24, everybody's favorite
• 2:20
  season of Doctor Who, including the participants in the call
• 2:23
  today. But we have 3 amazing guests of
• 2:29
  us today. I am going to throw out to each
• 2:31
  of you now ask you to introduce yourselves and give us your
• 2:35
  initial impressions of this season without giving you a pal
• 2:39
  to go away too much about the stories in general.
• 2:43
  And I'm going to go straight across to the magnificent Mikey
• 2:48
  Smith. Hello, Mikey.
• 2:50
  Hi, Joe. It's good to be here.
• 2:53
  Joe, who are you? Oh sorry, yes hi everyone.
• 2:56
  I'm Mikey, actor and broadcaster and star of short lived podcast
• 3:01
  series Mikey and Who, which if you haven't listened to it, you
• 3:06
  should. Is that enough about me or do I
• 3:08
  need to tell them about my sensational David Burton
• 3:11
  interview? Or is that too?
• 3:12
  Much. No, please, please mention that.
• 3:14
  Yeah. OK, so I finished.
• 3:16
  I finished my having been one of the rising stars of podcasting
• 3:21
  during the summer of 2024. I went out on a climax and I
• 3:26
  climaxed with David Burton with a sensational tell all
• 3:30
  interview, which you'll want to check out because every time you
• 3:33
  listen to it, I get paid 12 pence.
• 3:36
  So. Can I can I just ask is it true
• 3:38
  about the proton? I beg your pardon?
• 3:41
  Well, he was given a car, wasn't he?
• 3:43
  He wasn't given a car. He was a leasing.
• 3:46
  Look, Joe, look, Joe, you need to listen to this interview, OK?
• 3:49
  That's, it's just that kind of fabrication that has haunted
• 3:52
  that man for an eye on 20 years, OK?
• 3:56
  It was a leasing agreement based on mutual trust.
• 3:59
  I don't understand what your issue is Joe.
• 4:02
  My issue is you haven't yet told me what you think of season 24
• 4:06
  of Doctor Who. But I want to keep my powder
• 4:09
  dry, yeah. Yeah, just sort of an overall.
• 4:11
  Right. Well, overall I think it was a a
• 4:14
  much needed just sort of shot in the arm.
• 4:17
  I don't mean like meth, I mean like, you know, in a nice way, a
• 4:21
  much needed shot in the arm for for a show that was getting a
• 4:25
  little bit it's getting a little bit violent and you know, you
• 4:31
  know, so it was fun. Great, great attempt to bring in
• 4:35
  the kids, I would say, which every so often the show has to
• 4:39
  remind itself that that's what it's for because you know, those
• 4:43
  guys will be dead soon. You know, they've got to bring
• 4:46
  in the fresh, you know, so well, not soon.
• 4:50
  I mean, I wish you a long life, fellow podcasters, but I, you
• 4:54
  know, it was a much needed change of tone and you know,
• 4:58
  there's nothing wrong with that. Every so often you got to have a
• 5:00
  bit of a switch up. Get a new duvet cover, you know,
• 5:03
  have a switch up. You know, you started off there
• 5:06
  sounding sort of very positive about season 24 and then I.
• 5:09
  Went well. You sounded a bit apologetic at
• 5:12
  the end. I don't think you should
• 5:13
  apologize for your pleasures. Well, I want Joe.
• 5:18
  Moving on, let's go over to the gorgeous Mr. Rob Valentine.
• 5:23
  Hello, Rob. Hello Joe, how are you?
• 5:25
  And Merry Christmas as well. Merry Christmas to you, Sue.
• 5:28
  We're coming out midnight on Christmas Day.
• 5:30
  You know people are going to wake up and go fuck the
• 5:32
  presents. I want to listen to Strictly.
• 5:33
  Come hamster. I'll be asleep.
• 5:36
  I know it. Yes.
• 5:38
  Yeah. Anyway, me, I'm a writer.
• 5:40
  I write a lot of Doctor Who for Big Finish.
• 5:43
  Too much, some might say. And Season 24, it was where I
• 5:47
  came in. I was seven years old when Time
• 5:49
  and Irani was on TV. I I do remember bits of Colin
• 5:54
  Baker and even vague, vague, blurry bits of Peter Davison.
• 5:58
  But Time and Irani was properly aimed at 7 year old me and I was
• 6:03
  kind of hooked. Now it's a, it's a, it's a
• 6:06
  season or series. It's a season of Doctor Who I'd
• 6:10
  much rather talk about than have to watch, to be honest.
• 6:16
  I, I, I like it residing in my memory where I can kind of,
• 6:20
  yeah, access bits of it. But I do, I do find it, yes.
• 6:27
  I mean, couldn't we say it's something of a success given
• 6:29
  that 7 year old, you watched this, absolutely loved it and
• 6:32
  then. Oh, no, no, no, no.
• 6:34
  So closely, totally. Yeah.
• 6:36
  Are we just giving you? No, we just the just headlines
• 6:39
  here, right. Yeah, yeah.
• 6:42
  I love it for what it's trying to do again.
• 6:44
  I just, I just rather I'd rather talk about it than watch it,
• 6:47
  mate, that's all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:50
  Have you had to watch it for this then?
• 6:52
  Or have you done all your? You know, I'd like to do, I'd
• 6:54
  like to do my homework, but I found myself skipping it.
• 6:57
  But yes, yes, I did. I.
• 6:59
  Did. That's my choice to put you
• 7:00
  through that, Rob. I'm very sorry.
• 7:03
  It's yes. And last but not least, stepping
• 7:07
  in last minute with three days notice to do this Mr. Toby
• 7:11
  Heydo. Hello, Toby.
• 7:13
  Hello, my name is Toby. I am a guest star in the latest
• 7:16
  season of Ridley. I'm the voice of Toby, the tram
• 7:18
  engine in Thomas and Friends, the bun that everyone hates and
• 7:22
  I'm a regular presenter on BBC Radio 4 Extra.
• 7:25
  But nobody gives a flying fuck about that because I watched
• 7:27
  Doctor Who once and now I'm saying it's like sheep shagger,
• 7:30
  Joe said. You shag 1 sheep and suddenly
• 7:33
  you're stuck with it for life. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I, I, I do
• 7:36
  Doctor Who things, including making documentaries for the
• 7:40
  Doctor Who DVD's and Blu rays. Well, actually only the Blu rays
• 7:43
  because they don't make DVD's anymore.
• 7:45
  But I'm still a kind of Opal fruits kind of guy.
• 7:47
  So if you have to forgive my occasional lapses into the
• 7:50
  nomenclature of days gone by, it's a joy to happy Christmas,
• 7:54
  everyone. I love being in people's homes
• 7:56
  on Christmas Day, not because I'm a burglar.
• 7:58
  I, I present on radio four extra and, and, and, and I always get
• 8:02
  given the Christmas period. So I, I particularly like it
• 8:04
  when Christmas falls on a Saturday and Sunday, which is
• 8:07
  when I present, but I'm not this year.
• 8:09
  So it's really nice that you've enabled me like, because I love
• 8:13
  Anika Rice and her and her listeners choice, which plays
• 8:17
  all the children's music from when we were younger.
• 8:19
  They play on Radio 2 on Christmas morning.
• 8:21
  So I hope somebody some where likes it when they hear me
• 8:24
  introducing Journey from Space on Christmas Day as well.
• 8:28
  But I'm aware it's a smaller group.
• 8:29
  So I'm glad that the audience has grown now and that the
• 8:32
  audience has strictly get to hear my festive jangling, which
• 8:35
  is what I'm doing now. I'm jangling festively for you
• 8:37
  to watch season 24, which, well, you know, I make it my duty, I
• 8:44
  think to spread positivity and joy about all things Doctor Who.
• 8:48
  I'm a lover, not a hater. And I I say with my hand on my
• 8:52
  heart and my cockles all warmed, that Season 24 contains what I
• 8:59
  consider be to be the two worst stories in the whole of classic
• 9:04
  Doctors. There's.
• 9:04
  Only four stories there. Well, indeed, I know.
• 9:07
  So consistency, at least it scores some points for I mean,
• 9:11
  I, it's, it's I, I have done my homework because I did get three
• 9:14
  whole days notice. And I, you know, I was, I was
• 9:17
  very sympathetic to what was going on, but I cannot, I lived
• 9:20
  through this. So I still bear the scars.
• 9:23
  And I was exactly the wrong age for something that was trying to
• 9:27
  be what has been described as, you know, fun and strange and
• 9:31
  accessible to the kids. I wanted it to be all grown up
• 9:33
  and sexy because I wanted to be grown up and sexy.
• 9:37
  But now that I've been grown up and I will never be sexy again,
• 9:39
  if ever I was, I'll I'll try and embrace the joy.
• 9:43
  But the scars, I still bear the scars.
• 9:47
  And when you're sort of talking today, is it, is it you now
• 9:50
  talking or is it you who endured this when you were a child?
• 9:54
  Well, as a number of psychiatrists have said to me,
• 9:56
  Joe, there's still a damaged child inside me.
• 9:59
  So I mean, I've tried to get him out.
• 10:01
  He's a pesky little sod. So I shouldn't have, I shouldn't
• 10:05
  have eaten him. But I, I think I, I mean, for
• 10:09
  me, our association with the Doctor Who of our childhood is
• 10:12
  key to its appeal to us Every time we were talking before just
• 10:16
  how lovely it is to meet Mike, you I've never met and Rob, I, I
• 10:19
  do know and and admire. So this is all lovely, isn't it?
• 10:22
  But we were talking before about how music can take you back to
• 10:25
  times and places. Doctor Who, You know, when I
• 10:28
  watch a story now, I can sort of remember where I was certainly
• 10:32
  physically, but also sometimes emotionally when first first I
• 10:35
  watched it. And when I watched season 24, I
• 10:37
  was really pissed off. It was the first season I
• 10:41
  videotaped as well, so it was the first one I could watch over
• 10:45
  and over again and get increasingly cross about.
• 10:47
  Rather than go onto Twitter or Facebook, which hadn't been
• 10:50
  invented, I could just I could just seed at it privately and
• 10:55
  and and compose dirges of hate. I have a massive fondness for
• 10:58
  the music of Season 24 because no one else knows this because
• 11:02
  it all happens behind closed doors.
• 11:04
  But my if I put on sort of certain Doctor Who soundtracks,
• 11:08
  my Ruff will start doing sexy dances for me.
• 11:10
  And when I put on the future pleasure or future leisure, you
• 11:15
  know, in time and the Ronnie, the dance I get is absolutely is
• 11:21
  exotic. And I'll tell you so I am a huge
• 11:25
  proponent of season 24, and not just because it's colourful and
• 11:29
  camp and energetic. I do think JNT is trying to
• 11:33
  bring us back to Saturday night television, pulling in prestige
• 11:37
  guest actors. There's big, bold, colourful
• 11:40
  stories, lots of laughs. But the more I think about 24,
• 11:44
  the more I see an underlying darkness to all of these stories
• 11:47
  because a lot of the ideas in this shelter and the Bannerman,
• 11:50
  for example, you know, is about genocide.
• 11:52
  It just happens to be a musical, an uneasy mix.
• 11:54
  You might say, well, we'll get there.
• 11:57
  Every time I start thinking of 24 as, oh, OK, this is just a
• 12:01
  kids show, I get a moment like, love has never been known for
• 12:05
  its rationality or you can't pay back your debt to Kane, ever.
• 12:10
  And I really sit back, and I'm like, that's a bit more
• 12:12
  thoughtful than you would get on your average children's
• 12:15
  television. So I think there's more
• 12:16
  happening here than some people I would suspect given the
• 12:20
  surface gloss. I think we're going to have an
• 12:23
  interesting conversation today. Before we start, gentlemen, if
• 12:28
  we could just read the overview comments.
• 12:30
  Toby, you and I, we're going to do a couple of pre prepared ones
• 12:33
  to start off with and then I'm going to hand over to our
• 12:36
  guests. So this is the the strictly come
• 12:38
  hamster. I mean, I'm imagine they're a
• 12:40
  load of old camp Queens. So I would imagine they all love
• 12:43
  this season. But let's find out.
• 12:44
  Toby, do you want to kick us off?
• 12:46
  Yes, so, Dan Pin says. Loved it when I was a tiny 9
• 12:51
  year old and love it even more now.
• 12:54
  It's a season of transition, but it's colourful camp and a lot of
• 12:57
  fun and never dull. Cyhart says I was 12.
• 13:01
  Suddenly, Doctor Who exploded with colour and fun.
• 13:04
  After years of drab tunnels and brown sets, it was exhilarating
• 13:09
  to have a version of the show I loved back.
• 13:11
  I couldn't understand why no one else liked it, because it seemed
• 13:14
  imaginative and brilliant again. Glenn Fitzgerald says 13 years
• 13:20
  old and this was the first time I was having to watch the show
• 13:23
  on my own in my bedroom as the rest of the family had given up
• 13:27
  on it. This is when it became my show.
• 13:30
  Lots of entertainment, campness and panto and I loved it.
• 13:34
  That's so sad, isn't it? Ostracized at a bedroom to go
• 13:38
  and watch Doctor Who? Oh wow, Dan Hollingsworth says,
• 13:41
  aged 14. I was embarrassed by it and it's
• 13:44
  silly. Cheap pantos, darlings.
• 13:46
  But thankfully I have since reassessed it and it's much
• 13:49
  better than the nasty, bickering sabred era.
• 13:52
  We get companions that want to be there, having adventures, new
• 13:56
  ideas. The direction and budget often
• 13:58
  let the sheer ambition down, but this was trying new things.
• 14:03
  I'm already becoming convinced by this.
• 14:04
  I'm I'm going to, I'm going to have to stop, stop my seasonal
• 14:07
  pantomimic catering. It's a Christmas.
• 14:09
  Miracle, but, but there was also there's, I forgot to mention
• 14:12
  him. And there's also a story that I
• 14:14
  was so obsessed by, I transcribed the whole thing and
• 14:17
  wanted to mount my own production of it.
• 14:19
  And it will surprise you which one it was.
• 14:21
  So I, I mean, I'm a man of extremes.
• 14:23
  And Anthony Carroll, there are two of them out there.
• 14:26
  There's no clue as to which one this is, Says Oh dear, prepare
• 14:31
  for a doom laden hamster listener.
• 14:33
  Awful season. I was 16 at the time.
• 14:36
  Childish. Oh I know which I know which.
• 14:38
  Anthony Carroll. It is now.
• 14:39
  Childish. Some good effects, but low
• 14:42
  standards all round. I don't know if you've noticed
• 14:45
  as we've gone from comment to comment, each person has got one
• 14:48
  year older. Oh, Chris says.
• 14:50
  I was 17 and I had never been so embarrassed to be a Doctor Who
• 14:55
  fan. Have you noticed there there is
• 14:56
  a theme here, The older you get the worse it is.
• 14:59
  But the lowest point was sitting down with my girlfriend, her
• 15:02
  parents and grandparents who had never seen the show before to
• 15:05
  watch Paradise Towers par 4. How I squirmed.
• 15:09
  I now look at it as a Doctor Who cartoon and I can enjoy it for
• 15:13
  that. It was 101 years.
• 15:16
  Oh, sorry, Adrian Berry says. I had just turned 18, held my
• 15:21
  head in my hands for most of it, but after time in the Ronnie
• 15:25
  Sylvester was the best thing about this season.
• 15:29
  Oh and I'm assuming Duncan Campbell was 19 but he says
• 15:33
  having watched since 1972, I was dismayed to see my favorite show
• 15:37
  demean so much. I hated it but as I got older I
• 15:42
  rewatched it on Blu-ray and have a new founders for it.
• 15:44
  But I always preferred Delta and that's never changed.
• 15:49
  I may have I may have done Adrian Barry a disservice there,
• 15:51
  though, because it could be. But after time in the Rani,
• 15:56
  Sylvester was the best thing about this season.
• 15:58
  So Sylvester is either the best thing about this season after
• 16:00
  time in the Rani, which is the best thing of the season, or
• 16:03
  it's after time in the Rani, which he's not very good in
• 16:07
  Sylvester is the best thing about the season.
• 16:09
  So I, I don't know what Adrian means there, but I've given you
• 16:12
  a a number of different readings so that when it comes to casting
• 16:16
  me and the role of me, you've got options.
• 16:18
  Should you care to get in touch Adrian and let us know, please
• 16:22
  do, but let's skip across to Rob and Mikey now for the non
• 16:26
  numerically ordered first set of overview comments.
• 16:30
  If we start with Rob and Johnny's comment, please.
• 16:33
  Yes, OK, Johnny says. Back in the 80s I used to think
• 16:38
  Dragon Fire was the best and the rest were embarrassing.
• 16:41
  But each time I rewatched Paradise Towers, I've been fond
• 16:43
  of it. Now I just adore it.
• 16:46
  Ditto for Ronnie and Delta. What a man he's.
• 16:49
  Extra. That's right.
• 16:51
  Right this this comes in from Dylan Reece, who's 12:00 and
• 16:55
  from Wolverhampton, he says, unfairly maligned by Dick heads.
• 17:03
  We would all grown too old for a kids TV show, but we're too
• 17:06
  immature to have any opinions of critical faculties.
• 17:09
  That matters. Season 24 has come full circle
• 17:13
  and is now rightly seen as the beginning of a bold new
• 17:16
  reinvention of a tired old show that desperately needed some new
• 17:21
  blood. Nice to know I'm a dickhead so
• 17:26
  early in the show. I was never really in doubt for
• 17:30
  me. Right.
• 17:31
  Well, multiple fruit says just terrible from start to finish.
• 17:37
  Season 23 lowered the bar to ground level, then 24 somehow
• 17:41
  manages to crawl under it. Ronnie at least has a childish
• 17:46
  earnestness about it, but that's all I've got for compliments.
• 17:49
  A disaster. Thank goodness he goes under a
• 17:52
  pseudonym of multiple fruit. Daniel Knight, who's 7:00 and
• 17:57
  from Blackburn says. I enjoyed 24 then and I love it
• 18:01
  now. It's surprisingly mature under
• 18:03
  all the so-called panto trappings, genocide,
• 18:06
  cannibalism, and the collapse of society.
• 18:09
  Sylv is great from the off, but Carmel needs his knuckles
• 18:13
  rapping for not giving Bonnie enough to do.
• 18:16
  Oh dear, right. John Arnold says exactly the
• 18:19
  wrong season for me in 1987, but time's been very kind to it.
• 18:25
  McCoy is the instant adrenaline shot to the show me.
• 18:28
  Crash Dummy says. Probably my second favorite
• 18:31
  classic season. It has a lightness of tone but
• 18:35
  depth of story unlike anything before.
• 18:37
  It's like an awkward teenager starting to find themselves.
• 18:40
  It's still not quite there, but the building blocks are in
• 18:43
  place. Thank you Crash Dummy, but the
• 18:45
  insight into your teenage years I.
• 18:49
  Think they're onto something? Anyway, James Lark says even
• 18:53
  under normal circumstances, this would be a bold and confident
• 18:57
  new chapter for the show. However, emerging from prolonged
• 19:00
  crisis and made with absurdly little notice, it's nothing
• 19:03
  short of miraculous. So if we give a few toll
• 19:06
  inconsistencies, it's also as fun as who gets.
• 19:09
  Go on, James. It's funny, I read that one, but
• 19:12
  I wasn't listening. Yeah, OK.
• 19:17
  Fair enough. Fair enough.
• 19:20
  Jason Stevens the worst season. It was on transmission and it
• 19:27
  remains so. No, only plus are the amazing
• 19:32
  guest stars. Well, I mean, I do agree with
• 19:36
  the last comment there. David, let's be proud, the
• 19:39
  absolute hits a stinking stinker than the deer of Doctor Who.
• 19:44
  The sort of season true fans shouldn't even give the time of
• 19:47
  day. This is the sort of thing said
• 19:49
  by people who are wrong and hate fun.
• 19:52
  Oh, you've got me, David, you've got me.
• 19:54
  It might be rough around the edges, but it's also charming.
• 19:57
  Did you hear that, Toby? People that hate fun.
• 20:00
  Yeah, yeah. Well, as I, I mean, as I say, I
• 20:03
  am, I am now much better. I'm just being honest about my
• 20:06
  Trump, the trauma that it put me through as a as a youngster.
• 20:09
  I, I now can perfectly accept, you know, it's many virtues and
• 20:15
  there's no, there's no classic Doctor Who I don't like, but
• 20:19
  also I feel duty bound because this is a loving to, you know,
• 20:24
  to, to, to probably sound a, a little bit of a, you know, the,
• 20:28
  the, the, the, the, the dampener klaxon, just just in order that
• 20:33
  we don't all sound like we've been programmed to sing its
• 20:36
  praises because that would be tedious.
• 20:37
  But you know, I'm and it's all relative.
• 20:39
  I still think every single Doctor Who story is more fun
• 20:43
  than anything from any other program.
• 20:46
  Including the two of the right at the bottom of the list.
• 20:49
  Yeah, yeah, I mean, but also, you can enjoy watching something
• 20:54
  without necessarily thinking it's any good because it's the
• 20:57
  association one has with the show.
• 20:59
  You know, I sometimes like some Kraft cheese slices on
• 21:03
  Warburton's white toasty bread, but I'm not going to say it's a
• 21:06
  good example of food. Look, Toby, I'm going to make
• 21:10
  you feel instantly better about not liking some of Doctor Who.
• 21:13
  Are you ready? Go on.
• 21:15
  I can't be arsed with any of the trout and stuff.
• 21:18
  Get out, OK? Tom Newson says.
• 21:22
  It's clear from Paradise Towers onwards.
• 21:25
  These are younger, punkier writers.
• 21:27
  Carmel hasn't quite worked out TV's limitations, but he
• 21:30
  probably never does. And that's why we like it.
• 21:33
  It's. True.
• 21:34
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:34
  It's ambitious, yeah. Yeah, PlayStation Gamer 187 says
• 21:40
  walks slowly up to the summit of Ronnie Hill and sits down to
• 21:43
  wait for trouble. This is my Hill, I say.
• 21:46
  Delta is pure fun and LSD trip of the story.
• 21:49
  Dragon Fire has some excellent characters.
• 21:51
  Cracking season. It's polarizing.
• 21:55
  We know this much. We know this much.
• 21:58
  OK, well this nest guy is more kind of even handed.
• 22:00
  Sudoku 24 says it's all bad. The classic shows rock bottom,
• 22:07
  full stop. Very succinct.
• 22:10
  And last but not least, Steve at DN 21 Media says needed to be
• 22:16
  junked. What a Scrooge.
• 22:20
  Outrageous. Well.
• 22:22
  Because now, because if it had been, we'd have AI
• 22:24
  reconstructions of it. Let's.
• 22:27
  Let's move on to the stories themselves then.
• 22:30
  And just because I'm feeling particularly mean, let's go
• 22:34
  straight across to Mark Powell. Marky Smith.
• 22:37
  You've got a choice of all four stories and whether you want to
• 22:40
  praise it or condemn it. Off you go.
• 22:43
  Oh Blimey. OK, so I would like to go for
• 22:51
  dragon fire. OK.
• 22:56
  And I would like to praise it, to praise you like I should.
• 23:04
  Is that all right? No, it's your absolutely.
• 23:07
  Off you go. OK, so.
• 23:10
  So yeah, I really like dragon fire.
• 23:14
  I just think it's just blooming. Brilliant.
• 23:17
  I just get major. You can just imagine that only a
• 23:21
  few feet away, Andy Crane is in the broom cupboard whilst
• 23:25
  they're filming this thing. He's probably going off and
• 23:29
  getting Asani and walking past and he looks through into Studio
• 23:33
  8 and he goes, why have they got all that plastic hanging down?
• 23:36
  Everyone goes, that's ice, Andy, ice.
• 23:40
  It doesn't look like ice, it's fine.
• 23:43
  And on he goes. You're kind to say it's plastic.
• 23:46
  I think it's a curtain, you know?
• 23:47
  Oh, it's just absolutely brilliant.
• 23:50
  It's I don't know, every so often the shore has to just just
• 23:57
  reset and go look, this show's going to go on and on and on.
• 24:00
  So we can do anything. So let's just do this.
• 24:02
  You know, it's a it's a farm foods on a planet and the
• 24:08
  creature from alien is sort of hidden.
• 24:13
  Go and find that just brilliant. And also this is the this is the
• 24:19
  one where for me, like where cells like just looks like he's
• 24:22
  having a great time. You know, the stuff when they're
• 24:25
  in the kind of wimpy, the the little calf thing and space
• 24:29
  wimpy all that stuff. Like is that the first time that
• 24:33
  we see loads of different creatures all at the same time?
• 24:35
  Well, no, probably the first time he's maybe Dalek master
• 24:37
  plan where you've seen like lots of different creatures in a kind
• 24:40
  of tomorrow people way. You know where they go, right?
• 24:43
  One creature is not enough. Here's 5.
• 24:46
  They all look shit. Here they all are.
• 24:48
  Like Poundland Cantina, isn't it?
• 24:50
  Yeah, but I just, I just absolutely love it.
• 24:53
  So you you're, you know, you can see at the back, you know,
• 24:56
  there's like these different creatures who were there and
• 25:00
  we're listening in on a conversation and we never listen
• 25:02
  in on conversations in Doctor Who.
• 25:04
  We're listening in on conversation.
• 25:05
  It's almost like sitcom like. And then the way that Ace is
• 25:08
  introduced, she isn't introduced with a shot of her eyes or her
• 25:13
  hands or any of that bollocks. She just walks in.
• 25:17
  She just walks in serving milkshakes.
• 25:19
  It's just it's just lovely. And the the ace that we get in
• 25:23
  that first story when you first meter is the ace that you get in
• 25:28
  survival. It's just, I don't know, it's
• 25:31
  like it's like she's just matured, but it's the same girl.
• 25:34
  It's the same, it's the same girl.
• 25:36
  Can I ask? Are you suggesting that sort of
• 25:38
  long shot where Sophie Aldridge first walks in to shore that
• 25:41
  that was actually a creative choice?
• 25:44
  Well, I think it, yeah. I mean, it's obviously not a
• 25:46
  creative choice. That's what's so fun about it.
• 25:48
  It's just like, stick the camera on.
• 25:50
  It's like Richard Martin, kind of.
• 25:51
  They all went to Richard Martin's School of Film.
• 25:55
  It's just turn the camera on and then just you guys get on, you
• 25:59
  know, they've they've blocked it like a it's.
• 26:02
  Just great. I just love it.
• 26:04
  It's so nice because everything just happens, you know?
• 26:08
  And I like that. I don't like some when, when the
• 26:10
  new show really annoys me, it's when I'm being told what to
• 26:13
  think about stuff. So I'm getting certain
• 26:16
  selections of shots, I'm getting certain music, I'm getting all
• 26:19
  this sort of thing and I'm like, no, I don't need it.
• 26:20
  I'm all right. Like I can figure it out.
• 26:23
  And I suppose it's more, you know, I like, I like Doctor when
• 26:25
  it's more like a play And, and this, this is how this plays out
• 26:29
  for me. And also, you know, the Tony
• 26:34
  Selby character. Glenn's brilliant.
• 26:38
  We need more of that. You know, he's, he's a rogue.
• 26:42
  He's got a bit of banter. We've got a little bit of like
• 26:46
  library music playing in the cafe in the background.
• 26:49
  It's just lovely. Did you see the potential for
• 26:53
  sort of half a daily in space? You know, glitz adventures with
• 26:56
  diva. No, that would be shit.
• 26:59
  Oh yeah. It won't.
• 27:01
  That's no, no. I mean, the I think they're
• 27:05
  pushing the look when he turns up again because this is the
• 27:08
  second. This is the second time he's
• 27:09
  turned up. Isn't it third?
• 27:11
  Is he the third? Yeah.
• 27:13
  Oh, yeah. OK, yeah.
• 27:15
  OK. I get you.
• 27:16
  Yeah. OK.
• 27:17
  It's technically the third, but I think he's, I think he's done
• 27:20
  on that, right. It's like Weekend at Bernie's,
• 27:22
  Weekend at Bernie's 1, great Weekend at Bernie's two.
• 27:25
  Yeah, I'm still having fun. Weekend at Bernie's three
• 27:28
  straight to video. But.
• 27:32
  That's got nothing to do with him.
• 27:33
  Sorry, but but I I think, yeah, he couldn't come back again.
• 27:37
  But what a great, what a great character.
• 27:39
  And plus, it's this kind of, it's the acting style.
• 27:44
  OK, so Stones of Blood, I'm just bringing this up.
• 27:47
  Stones of Blood has an acting style about it that is slightly
• 27:53
  caricatured. It's like almost on purpose,
• 27:56
  it's been directed like that. And so it's really engaging and
• 27:58
  it's fun. And, and you're always kind of
• 28:00
  guessing. And when you consider this is
• 28:03
  what, 10 years later, this is, this is like that.
• 28:08
  It's quite it's, it's got that kind of knowing it's the stuff
• 28:12
  that like loads of boring old fans complain about where the
• 28:15
  show is too much in on its own joke and it's winking and all
• 28:19
  this sort of thing. I think that's fine.
• 28:21
  I think it's absolutely fine for the show to have fun and have
• 28:23
  that stones of blood kind of DNA of it just being a bit of a good
• 28:27
  crack. You're not talking about that
• 28:30
  scene where he's saying all that techno bubble from the old
• 28:33
  folding text to the guard, are you?
• 28:36
  He's not in paradise. I'm maybe I'm getting.
• 28:37
  Mixed up in this one, he goes. I think you're far most educated
• 28:40
  people regarding mythical convictions as fundamentally
• 28:42
  animistic. Oh, wow.
• 28:44
  OK, wow. OK, didn't know that.
• 28:46
  I think that's great. That's great because that's
• 28:48
  something which is a casual fan. As your casual 12 year old
• 28:52
  watching it on a 5 inch screen in his nan's kitchen, you're not
• 28:54
  going to pick up because you're still having fun.
• 28:56
  Yeah, but for the for the guy at home who's too serious, it's
• 29:01
  going look, I see you, I see you, I see you.
• 29:04
  I don't mind that. I don't mind that.
• 29:05
  And, and you know, the the new series has always done that, has
• 29:08
  trolled the fans on it. Trouble is, though, Mike, is, is
• 29:10
  if you are going to appreciate the meta jokes.
• 29:13
  Yeah, I mean, you just heard all those comments of those people
• 29:16
  getting older and older. They're the ones that can
• 29:18
  appreciate it, but they're the ones watching through their
• 29:20
  fingers as the ice billows around the actors.
• 29:23
  I'm not getting older, Joe. Well, no.
• 29:25
  Look at you. I haven't.
• 29:26
  I haven't aged for nearly nine. Years looking man.
• 29:30
  There's ways of doing it, but I, I, I don't, I don't think it's
• 29:35
  aimed at those people. And also what's weird is, is
• 29:38
  that we watch the show now from a different angle.
• 29:41
  And I'm just thinking of, yeah, I'm just thinking of that like
• 29:43
  that, like 10 year old, like watching it at his nan's house.
• 29:45
  It's just, it's just a lot of fun.
• 29:49
  Plus I think there's, there's like little scenes in there that
• 29:52
  are quite modern. So you know, when like Sophie's
• 29:55
  telling her kind of story about when she was, when she was a kid
• 29:58
  and all that and you just get a little slight sense of like a
• 30:01
  back story. I think that's really nice.
• 30:03
  They don't overdo it, you know. They all sense of a back story.
• 30:06
  She basically looks out the camera and says the entire
• 30:08
  exposition of her bioog. Well, I do that occasionally
• 30:12
  when I'm talking to the wife. That's fine.
• 30:15
  I've got no problem with that. Plus I also like how Mel is in
• 30:18
  this story, like Mel's chill, a bit chilled out in this story.
• 30:21
  Like I feel like Sophie Aldridge rubs up on it, rubs off on her.
• 30:26
  They've got good chemistry. There's a lot of ice around.
• 30:29
  But I but there's, there's a kind of reality to Mel in this
• 30:32
  that he's actually a little bit big finish.
• 30:34
  It's a bit Pfizer, Vulcan, you know, and this, this, I just
• 30:38
  think it's perfect timing. It's, it's not as daft as time
• 30:45
  in the Rani, but the characters are as kind of lucid.
• 30:51
  I don't want to say panto because I hate it when people
• 30:54
  say panto is a negative word for obvious reasons, Joe.
• 30:57
  I love a panto. Why are you looking at me?
• 31:00
  No, but sometimes people say, oh, it's a bit panto like that
• 31:03
  means it's like people going Oh dear.
• 31:06
  Do you know do you put? On the explicit night as well?
• 31:10
  Or do you just do the family friendly ones?
• 31:12
  I just do the family friendly ones.
• 31:14
  You should do 1. You know there's packed out
• 31:16
  every year. No, I I couldn't, I couldn't say
• 31:18
  the C word in front of Gainsborough, Carlisle, but I,
• 31:27
  I, I, yeah. So, So I don't think it's panto
• 31:30
  in any way. But the this, this, the
• 31:32
  characters are kind of defined in a way that a sitcom character
• 31:37
  is, in the sense that we learn all about them in a couple of
• 31:40
  lines with the way they deliver their text.
• 31:42
  And I've got no problem with that at all.
• 31:45
  Also, this is a very clean looking production.
• 31:50
  Like there's no faffing around. We jump around almost like a
• 31:54
  comic book. Like we, we, we'd know exactly
• 31:57
  where we are all the time. We very rarely spend any time
• 32:00
  without the Doctor, which is important to me.
• 32:02
  I can't stand endless scenes without the Doctor.
• 32:05
  I'm just particularly in audio. Oh my God, you know, I need I
• 32:10
  need the Doctor there. And this is great because it
• 32:13
  does that comic book thing of you get a couple of frames
• 32:16
  without the Doctor. But we get back to the Doctor
• 32:19
  because we see all this through the Doctor's eyes.
• 32:21
  I don't care what anyone says about, oh, we see it through the
• 32:23
  companion's eyes. No, we don't.
• 32:26
  We're here for the Doctor and, and it's very much Doctor
• 32:29
  focused. So that's really good.
• 32:32
  Plus the guy that plays Kane who who ends up as the leader of the
• 32:38
  new family in Emmerdale when they cast people in soap stars
• 32:44
  the talent show now does anyone remember this?
• 32:48
  Yeah, no, he doesn't. Educators.
• 32:50
  Yeah, come on, hang on. No, Toby's already disagreeing
• 32:53
  with me. I don't know.
• 32:54
  He's an expert in such things. So I'm.
• 32:56
  I'm. I'm instantly thinking I may
• 32:58
  have made this up. The the people in Soap Stars
• 33:02
  were were sort of wannabe actors who'd been on the show.
• 33:05
  Yeah, like a pop stars, the rivals.
• 33:07
  Thing Yeah, and it was a guy called the.
• 33:09
  The guy played the dad was a guy called Mark Jardine, who'd been
• 33:11
  an extra in Battlefield, but he's not Edward Peele, who
• 33:14
  played. Edward Peele was in Emmerdale,
• 33:16
  but he wasn't as a result of soap stars.
• 33:19
  So what you're saying to? Eddie Peele is a National
• 33:21
  Theatre player of high regard. Toby So what you're saying is
• 33:25
  I've took two separate things, combine them into one story and
• 33:28
  passed it off as facts. What you're saying is Toby's.
• 33:31
  I'm Katie Manning. No, you're Joe Ford on hamster
• 33:34
  with a blood pen knife. Well done.
• 33:37
  I apologise for that, but yeah, he's a soap actor, but he does a
• 33:39
  good turn in this. I really love the his the cane
• 33:43
  character in this. Like it's a proper baddie.
• 33:46
  The proper baddie and the thing we keep coming back to with the,
• 33:51
  the, the, the statue, you know, that's being made like that's,
• 33:55
  that's iconography in a story, which I think a lot of like
• 33:59
  modern who forgets to do that's that iconography gives us
• 34:02
  something to keep an eye on. Chekhov's ice statue.
• 34:05
  I just wish I. Just wish it looked a bit more
• 34:08
  like ice So. Oh yeah, yeah, it don't look
• 34:10
  great, does it? But then we've all had rough
• 34:12
  nights. Especially XANA.
• 34:16
  Well, thank you very much for that.
• 34:17
  Toby. Shall we go to the comments?
• 34:20
  Yes, now that we've established that soap actors can be good in
• 34:24
  things, which I'm delighted to him.
• 34:29
  Yeah. Shall I start with that?
• 34:31
  Oh, that's that's oh, so we've got.
• 34:33
  Oh, I've got to scroll because Dragon Fire is is right at the
• 34:36
  right, at the bottom right. So here we go.
• 34:38
  It's Dylan Reece who whose words I'm going to read and I won't
• 34:43
  put on a stupid voice even though he's implied that people
• 34:45
  with my opinion are Dick heads. So Dylan Reece has gone?
• 34:50
  No, he's got an epic conclusion. Best companion of the classic
• 34:53
  series. Kane.
• 34:55
  Melty faces Frozen zombies Glitz Mel the Dragon 10 out of 10.
• 35:02
  Did that stick in your throat to say that?
• 35:04
  No, I'm I'm happy that people enjoy things.
• 35:07
  I don't. I don't get joy in in people a
• 35:09
  bit not liking things. I've got this one pinned as one
• 35:12
  of your bottom 2, but I don't know, we'll find out.
• 35:15
  Sigh Haw lovely, lovely sigh Haw says I liked it in 87 but I'm
• 35:19
  not sure now. Great music, model work.
• 35:22
  Kane's demise was suitably ghoulish, but somehow it's more
• 35:25
  serious. Tone feels a little off.
• 35:28
  Gareth Baouley. Says a welcome return for Glitz.
• 35:34
  Kane is truly sinister with his control of people.
• 35:37
  Mccoy's face off at the end is the template for what's to come.
• 35:41
  Plus Kane's melting face. You really studied him when he
• 35:45
  came on last time, didn't you? Jason Thompson says.
• 35:49
  Never really works for me. Kane's death is an iconic
• 35:51
  visual, but he's remarkably quick to throw in the towel once
• 35:54
  he finds out his home world is gone.
• 35:56
  Couldn't he think of anything else to do with the awesome
• 35:58
  power he's now got? Crashed dummy says PO faced but
• 36:02
  important for what's to come. Kane's depth, Ace's arrival and
• 36:06
  the sad exit of Mel all combine into a satisfying tale.
• 36:11
  Jim Allenby Kane is creepy and the death is horrific.
• 36:14
  It's great to see Glicks again and whilst Mel's exit is sudden,
• 36:17
  the scene itself is very sweet. Ace adds much needed shake up
• 36:21
  and the dragon is a fantastic design.
• 36:24
  That's why Mum's goes what I sold.
• 36:27
  Paul Paul Paul Smyer says it's great.
• 36:30
  My fave companion makes a debut and straightaway is better than
• 36:33
  Mel. The death of Cain is horrific
• 36:36
  and gave 10 year old me nightmares.
• 36:38
  Best music too. David Gillespie Prakt is very
• 36:43
  firm in his opinion. A stinker, he says.
• 36:46
  It sometimes feel like we're watching the rehearsals as the
• 36:48
  performances are sometimes a bit off and the direction clumsy.
• 36:52
  A story that's trying to do something interesting, but the
• 36:54
  production betrays it. Paul Cressa says I like it, but
• 36:59
  God does it look cheap apart from some great model work.
• 37:02
  And why does it spend so much time with that little girl?
• 37:05
  What is that little girl all about?
• 37:08
  I Yeah, I don't know. James Hold.
• 37:10
  On a minute, am I allowed to? Oh, no, sorry.
• 37:12
  I think the little girls are really good returning more teeth
• 37:14
  because she's running around and we we're sort of tracking her.
• 37:18
  Like, I think that's really clever.
• 37:22
  She's not really that horrified by the massacre that's occurred
• 37:25
  around. Her, but that's what's
• 37:26
  intriguing. OK, she's emotionally scarred.
• 37:30
  It's just that she's there and she's like a returning thing.
• 37:32
  And then it's really clever at the end that she's like,
• 37:35
  everyone's just like, it's a bit like the end of vengeance on
• 37:37
  Barra. So everyone's like, oh, back to
• 37:38
  normal. I can't really like that.
• 37:40
  You know what is? People's problem.
• 37:42
  When the mum goes oh there you are, but looking all over a few
• 37:45
  like a massacre hasn't just happened.
• 37:47
  But that's the whole. She goes, come on, let's go.
• 37:49
  But the the entire colony has moved.
• 37:52
  Where's she going? But that's the whole point.
• 37:55
  That's what the writers doing. He's saying it's a shopping
• 37:58
  centre, people just carry on. If you see someone with a
• 38:00
  massive Nosebleed in the in the pottery centre in stock, you
• 38:04
  have a quick look and you walk on by right?
• 38:06
  That's fair. Yeah.
• 38:07
  I mean, I work in the shop. I absolutely can.
• 38:09
  Yeah, that's what he's. I think that's what he's saying.
• 38:11
  I think this, it's a, it's a coder.
• 38:13
  I like it. What's going on here?
• 38:16
  Oh please, you ain't heard nothing yet.
• 38:18
  James Lark says the mix of comic book and sci-fi fantasy is
• 38:22
  beyond both Chris Cloth and the budget.
• 38:24
  The complacent result has the shit the money's run out vibe
• 38:27
  that's hard to ignore. Partially rescued by Dominic
• 38:30
  Glynn who's phenomenal score spearheads a renaissance in
• 38:33
  Doctor Who music that will continue for the rest of the
• 38:36
  80s. Jack.
• 38:38
  Coyer says why does Mel want to travel with Glitz, let alone
• 38:42
  leave the doctor? Why focus on the little girl
• 38:45
  when she's neither threatened nor rescued?
• 38:47
  How is Kane trapped on Ice World when it's a trading port?
• 38:50
  We don't have time for that because we're focusing on the
• 38:52
  dynamic of Kane and Patricia Quinn.
• 38:54
  Oh wait, she's killed off in Part 2, so here's another spare
• 38:57
  episode. You do miss her, Luke sins.
• 39:00
  Jenkins says. What is with that Cliff
• 39:02
  cliffhanger? Not a perfect story, but I enjoy
• 39:05
  it though Mel, just like Perry before her, is dumb dirty fuck
• 39:09
  it, throw it in the bin. Sorry, Ace.
• 39:12
  Paul Quinn, no relation I suspect, says a step backwards.
• 39:16
  Briggs is the weakest of the new writers.
• 39:18
  The theory discussion scene is dire.
• 39:21
  Kane is underperformed. It's sorry Paul, it's Paul.
• 39:25
  Unwell, Tony Selby is an obvious hangover, but they get away with
• 39:28
  it because the tonal and performances shifts are fairly
• 39:32
  the tonal and performance shifts are fairly extreme.
• 39:35
  On the plus side, Mel's leaving scene is rightly praised and
• 39:38
  Mccoy's sense of adventure is lovely.
• 39:41
  The big orange Michael says it felt like a classic.
• 39:44
  Whose story when the stories needed it most.
• 39:46
  Sorry, when the series needed it most.
• 39:48
  Yes, the literal cliffhanger is silly.
• 39:50
  It tries to make Ice World appear cold, but some characters
• 39:53
  miss the memo. Yet somehow I liked it then and
• 39:56
  I like it now. Sophie is great in her debut.
• 39:59
  A complexitated cookie says. Great intro for Ace, Nice send
• 40:03
  off for Mel and quite a nice little story too.
• 40:06
  Edward Peel is fab as the villainous Cane and Ice World is
• 40:08
  nicely put together. Nearly there, folks.
• 40:11
  Jeff Richardson says looks cool, that canteen is fun.
• 40:14
  Ace has promise to do without glitz and his slave trade in
• 40:17
  ways and male leaving to join him.
• 40:19
  Mind you, we did have that fabulous book by Jacqueline
• 40:22
  Rayner, didn't we? Oh sorry, Bonnie Langford.
• 40:24
  All of the stuff underground is dull and the main story is a bit
• 40:26
  same old. I like Kane second in command,
• 40:29
  but it's my least favorite. Darren Lit, Randall says.
• 40:32
  Weakest for me back in 1987, I remember thinking it felt very
• 40:36
  cheap and childish. There's a good story struggling
• 40:39
  to break forth. I like the Indiana Jones
• 40:41
  quality. Like the rest of the season, it
• 40:43
  needed imagination from the director and skilled editing.
• 40:47
  Matt Foy says good ideas if flawed and the Overlit studios
• 40:51
  let's it down. Sophie was a breath of fresh
• 40:53
  air, Blitz is always fun and Kane is a great villain.
• 40:56
  Part 3 Kane melting was where I came in and transfixed.
• 41:00
  Age 6 Tell McCoy to stop sliding.
• 41:04
  And James Hadwin, Bennett says reminds us of what's at the
• 41:09
  heart of who adventure. I want more of this.
• 41:12
  I want treasure maps. I want sci-fi dragon type
• 41:15
  monsters and the futuristic equivalent of the Tootingbeck
• 41:18
  toilet as the setting. Keep Rob Dragonfire.
• 41:24
  What are my options again? Bend OR keep?
• 41:33
  Bend Yeah. Why?
• 41:38
  I I, I I prefer others. And yes, I, yeah.
• 41:45
  Drag farm. Doesn't do do very much,
• 41:49
  although I don't like talking about any of these.
• 41:51
  This is why this is painful, Joe.
• 41:54
  Also, Yeah, I know, I know. I think there are just better
• 42:00
  ones in this series that I'd rather see through, to be
• 42:03
  honest. I haven't got anything terrible
• 42:07
  to say about it. I just haven't got a huge amount
• 42:09
  that's good. I'd love Kane's face melting
• 42:11
  though. Am I talking?
• 42:13
  But I let it through on that. What?
• 42:15
  I let it through on that. Just cut that whole thing
• 42:18
  through just for man's face melting.
• 42:20
  It's your call. Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm the weak
• 42:23
  link. I'm like 12 angry men.
• 42:25
  I'm whichever the flippiest, floppiest jurors.
• 42:28
  It's terrible. But I was with this season, I
• 42:31
  was always going to be, no, I'll say Ben.
• 42:33
  I don't know why I can't. I cannot justify it.
• 42:37
  I just, yeah, I want to say Ben. I want to say Ben.
• 42:39
  Dragon fire. I can't.
• 42:42
  I can talk about it. Sometimes I'll have to sit down
• 42:44
  and watch it and and I find it, I find it a tough watch.
• 42:49
  I find it a tough watch. There's so much good stuff that
• 42:53
  could have been good in it, but it just doesn't ride for me.
• 42:57
  Yeah, I have. No, I have no deep insights into
• 42:59
  why, but yeah, Ben, Ben, I think I'm just going to even if I'm
• 43:03
  wrong, even if I disagree with myself, even if I'm flip, I'll
• 43:06
  be. I'm going to stick with Ben
• 43:08
  because otherwise I just. It would be ridiculous.
• 43:10
  Yeah, Bin. I mean, that's a kind bin
• 43:13
  because you prefer other stories in the season.
• 43:16
  That's the gentlest bin you could possibly give.
• 43:18
  Yes, I suppose it is. That's neat.
• 43:20
  I I don't hate it. I don't hate it.
• 43:22
  I I you know, I'm committed to bury dragon fire.
• 43:24
  I it just doesn't do enough for me.
• 43:29
  I I find it a Luke. It's it's not, it's not.
• 43:33
  It's lukewarm. You know, it's it's Yeah, that's
• 43:36
  it. I'm sorry.
• 43:37
  It's not. It's not Interesting.
• 43:38
  Ben. Yeah, but Ben.
• 43:41
  Toby well, I need to establish my parameters here in in that in
• 43:47
  order to make this podcast series have some semblance of
• 43:52
  civilization about it. I, I, I have made the decision
• 43:57
  to been to and to keep to so the ones I've been and not
• 44:01
  necessarily ones I'm being horrible and mean about, you
• 44:04
  know, I could, I could always happily save any Doctor Who
• 44:07
  story because there's something I like about every Doctor Who
• 44:10
  story. So, but, but also because this
• 44:12
  podcast has been daft in the past and let something through
• 44:15
  on some sort of vague whim of somebody.
• 44:17
  And then it's knocked out a complete classic out in the
• 44:20
  final stages. And I wanted to kick everyone
• 44:21
  involved in the head. So I will be bidding to and I
• 44:25
  will be saving to and and so therefore, when I'm rude about
• 44:28
  something, do bear in mind that that there's been some great
• 44:32
  things said will be said about all of these stories and, and,
• 44:36
  and, and that sort of encompass the whole season.
• 44:39
  I think that the main one of which is Andrew Cartmel, who I
• 44:42
  think comes in with genuine ambition for the show.
• 44:45
  I think his instincts are correct.
• 44:46
  I run a comedy club and it started off very, very
• 44:49
  successfully. And then we had a few years
• 44:52
  where students weren't coming to comedy anymore.
• 44:54
  We lost a venue, blah de blah. And to try and keep it going.
• 44:57
  My instinct was to keep booking the same acts and try and make
• 45:00
  it like it had always been. And it and it, and it was a kind
• 45:03
  of shadow of its former self. And it was only when the the
• 45:06
  people who helped me do it and I let them take control a little
• 45:08
  bit more and they started booking acts who were a bit more
• 45:11
  avant-garde, who I wouldn't have booked because I thought, well,
• 45:14
  oh, they're not. They're not necessarily
• 45:15
  guaranteed to storm it, in which case we might have abandon it.
• 45:18
  But actually, because they were coming from left field, they
• 45:21
  gave the place a bit more of a sort of unique identity and,
• 45:25
  and, and, and had an eye on the future and it and it and it kind
• 45:28
  of stopped us from being a pale imitation of what had gone
• 45:30
  before. And the instincts that I had to
• 45:32
  preserve it and just try and play safe were definitely wrong.
• 45:36
  And the instincts of my colleagues were correct and have
• 45:39
  have made the club carry on today.
• 45:40
  And now it has a reputation for being sort of strange and kooky
• 45:44
  and for promoting slightly offbeat acts.
• 45:46
  And I think what I wanted as a kid was unit stories with
• 45:50
  explosions and invading Earth and what Andrew, but Mel, I
• 45:54
  think very sensibly. So even though it wasn't
• 45:57
  necessarily to my taste because I was an angry teenager, I was
• 45:59
  at exactly the wrong age of it to come in and go, let's embrace
• 46:02
  this slightly weird comic book outrageous style and have
• 46:07
  ambition to have a companion who has a back story but also has
• 46:10
  trauma and all this sort of thing.
• 46:11
  I think was he was almost ahead of his time.
• 46:16
  And I think it comes, I think that stuff flourishes really
• 46:19
  well in the next two seasons. The the problem here, I think,
• 46:22
  is that he, you know, he doesn't hit the he, he, he, he sort of
• 46:27
  has to work it out on the go because he inherits time in the
• 46:30
  Irani, which isn't his. And and and then I and so then I
• 46:33
  think the focus and the tone isn't quite as well delineated
• 46:37
  as it is in later seasons. And also, I think that, you
• 46:41
  know, the show is unloved under budgeted and and Jonathan
• 46:46
  Turner's preference for sort of playing styles doesn't does give
• 46:51
  it all the whiff of a bit of light end, which which is which,
• 46:55
  which I think is quite insidious in a lot of 80s doctor and
• 46:59
  doesn't doesn't help it. And and 80s Doctor Who is best
• 47:03
  when it overcomes that. And, and you know, prior to
• 47:05
  this, it tried to overcome it by being violent.
• 47:09
  And after this it, I think it tried to overcome it by, by
• 47:13
  being of serious intent, even if it was dressed up in sort of
• 47:18
  outrageousness or, or, or, or sort of avant-garde worlds that
• 47:22
  only existed within their own bubble.
• 47:24
  But I think there's something to be said for that.
• 47:26
  And you can, you can do that in Doctor Who and you can't in
• 47:28
  casualty. So bloody well do it then.
• 47:31
  And at the time, lest we forget, Dragon Fire came top of the
• 47:35
  season pole. And I think it did because I was
• 47:39
  booking the comedy club, because it was the one that was most
• 47:43
  like what we imagined, what we wanted Doctor Who to be.
• 47:48
  And it has all those key ingredients.
• 47:50
  Edward Peele is excellent as Kane.
• 47:52
  He is ice cold. He has a chilling aspect to him.
• 47:57
  He is ruthless and of Ace has so many of those wonderful things
• 48:00
  that scene where he tries to make it take the coin her back
• 48:03
  story. The fact that this is a
• 48:04
  character that has been conceived to have some sort of
• 48:07
  development built into the characterization to have some
• 48:10
  sort of dynamic that she'll she'll have, although she wasn't
• 48:14
  necessarily always going to be a companion.
• 48:17
  You know that there's there's clearly good in intent there.
• 48:21
  These are these are these are creatives who are inspired by
• 48:24
  good things. All of the characters are named
• 48:25
  after either film critics or, or, or exponents of, you know,
• 48:30
  high end or, or specialist, you know, well regarded cinema.
• 48:37
  I like the guard scene because I think it's funny.
• 48:39
  I think the, I think the, the deadpan delivery of the verbose
• 48:43
  text is a really nice gag. And it's and it's wonderful.
• 48:46
  And again, it's the sort of thing that you go that doesn't
• 48:48
  hurt the art that it doesn't need to be there, but the art
• 48:51
  lies in the fact that it is there.
• 48:52
  Absolutely. Doctor Who allows for those
• 48:54
  wonderful moments. You know, they're, they're,
• 48:58
  they're obviously inspired by Alien as, as you know, they have
• 49:02
  the Ant hunt, which is as close as it sort of gets to what I
• 49:05
  imagined classic Doctor Who would be.
• 49:09
  Dominic Glynn is a fantastic incidental musician.
• 49:12
  I actually love all, I mean, I love all the music in season 24.
• 49:16
  I, I, I go against it. I had the cassette with all the
• 49:19
  music on and I, I know it fills the screen, But actually you
• 49:22
  need to, if we've saw recently that scene where David Tennant's
• 49:24
  in the TARDIS on, on Rachel Tilele's YouTube channel without
• 49:27
  ambient sound, without the music and he's sort of running on, you
• 49:30
  can hear the hollowness of the set.
• 49:32
  You can, you can, you can that, that, and that really
• 49:34
  contributes to the sort of student.
• 49:36
  Now, obviously that would have been changed that have been
• 49:38
  broadcast. You're really playing against
• 49:40
  that in 80s who because you're on a cross arched, you know,
• 49:43
  three walled set, multi camera, all that studio sound is picked
• 49:47
  up. It's really hard to get rid of
• 49:49
  it. So if you fill it with Dick
• 49:50
  Mills making a noise every time someone presses a button and
• 49:53
  fill it with really, really exciting instantal music, it's
• 49:57
  it's it's like it's giving you a few more quid to the budget.
• 50:00
  And I think and so I'm a great fan of that, but I think so I
• 50:04
  will be defending Kev McCulloch later, but I think Dominic Glynn
• 50:07
  is is better. I think Dominic Glenn's music is
• 50:10
  in never anything other than superb.
• 50:13
  However, I think large segments of dragon fire are
• 50:17
  untransmittable. This is the one and I will be
• 50:22
  binning it. Well, it's, I mean it's tricky
• 50:25
  because had had I not. Been a a.
• 50:28
  Good boy and just gone in to this because it was short notice
• 50:32
  and gone in with my general view of season 24.
• 50:37
  I wouldn't have watched them again.
• 50:38
  And and so I went in watching them expected to go, and I'm
• 50:41
  going to bin that and I'm going to bin that and I'm going to
• 50:42
  save that and I'm going to save that.
• 50:43
  And, and of course, then loads of different things throw
• 50:46
  themselves at me and go, Oh, I'm not even convinced of my own
• 50:48
  views now, but I, I dragon fire didn't used to be my least
• 50:54
  favorite story of the season and therefore in the whole of Doctor
• 50:58
  Who. But latterly, and I won't tell
• 51:01
  you what the other one is, and I might change my mind through the
• 51:03
  course of this, but it's there in the bottom 2.
• 51:06
  And I think it's problem is that unlike some of that, I think the
• 51:10
  more successful stories from this period, it's because it's
• 51:13
  trying to be a bit more trad instead of embracing the, the
• 51:19
  the style that the show is now going for.
• 51:23
  I think you therefore have something that goes, well,
• 51:27
  Aliens was good, wasn't it? Let's shoot Aliens on the set
• 51:31
  for the Price is Right or, you know, or, or, and let's film it.
• 51:36
  And there's some real problems that the directors have this
• 51:40
  season. I mean, there's a bit in this
• 51:41
  where Bonnie Langford bangs ahead.
• 51:43
  There's a series of people banging their head in time in
• 51:46
  the Rani where it's clear from the way that it's shot that
• 51:49
  they've done anything but bang their head.
• 51:52
  And and I mean, that's, you know, that's really basic sort
• 51:54
  of television grammar. And it's not because of course
• 51:57
  you do it. There are no cutaways.
• 52:00
  It's vision mixed as live. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's
• 52:03
  all done in a way that you wouldn't do television anymore.
• 52:05
  You'd have, you'd do a completely different set up.
• 52:07
  You'd probably have a stunt person in you.
• 52:09
  You don't in this day and age of doing Doctor Who.
• 52:11
  But therefore you have to put your cameras in a place where
• 52:14
  the artifice is not just front and centre and you go, well,
• 52:17
  we're just going to have to have them say I've hit my head.
• 52:20
  And and so it's desperately try. It's, it's ambitious.
• 52:26
  Ian Briggs is, I think, a really interesting writer in that I
• 52:29
  think he's of serious intent and he's trying, but he's a bit like
• 52:33
  Bob Baker and Dave Martin. I think he's writing something
• 52:38
  that is that that will never look what he wants it to look
• 52:42
  like on the television. Now, unlike Bob Baker and Dave
• 52:44
  Martin, I think he does individual scenes and vignettes
• 52:47
  and characters very well. And I think the Belarge stuff is
• 52:49
  very nice. I actually, I don't think
• 52:51
  Patricia Quinn's all that good. I think it's a, it's, it's a,
• 52:53
  it's a, it's a, it's an unnecessarily it's, it's again,
• 52:57
  it's a performance that doesn't just quite look comfortable
• 52:59
  within the, the multi camera sort of setup that we've got.
• 53:04
  Whereas I think the underplaying of Edward Peele is, is very
• 53:06
  good. Blitz is obviously a late
• 53:08
  addition who's been crafted onto this other character.
• 53:11
  And so we have this love, lovable rogue that we know and
• 53:13
  love, played by Tony Selby, who we've come to enjoy.
• 53:16
  And that's why they brought him back, because Tony Selby is
• 53:18
  brilliant, who nonetheless has sold his entire crew.
• 53:22
  And we treat that as a kind of no, you're, you're wrong.
• 53:25
  And which is, you know. Is tonally.
• 53:28
  Quite Askew. And I think, again, I think
• 53:30
  that's the kind of issue where where Season 24 where, where,
• 53:34
  where it's trying to do the things I wanted Doctor Who to be
• 53:36
  doing, to be tough and gritty and gritty is where it falls
• 53:40
  down because it should have gone the other way and sort of
• 53:42
  embraced the sort of offbeat and the weird and Sylvester needs to
• 53:47
  stop sliding around or everybody else needs to be doing it.
• 53:51
  Those sets that, you know, they've, they've worked really
• 53:53
  hard to, but but they just don't, you know, they don't work
• 53:56
  at all. And there's some bits where you
• 53:57
  can see the curtains and the edge of the curtains and the
• 54:00
  scaffolding and the studio lights and you go that would
• 54:03
  fail a quality control test Now into that's why I don't, I don't
• 54:08
  use the word untransmittable lightly, but I mean it
• 54:10
  genuinely, I genuinely think it's untransmittable.
• 54:13
  And the ending of episode 1 is unforgivable.
• 54:17
  You need to add something in post to explain what the fuck
• 54:20
  he's doing at the end of the 150th, the first episode of the
• 54:24
  much wanted 150th Doctor Who story.
• 54:26
  So a lot of my school mates watched it because they'd heard
• 54:29
  that, you know, something was going on and like it went into
• 54:31
  school the next day and they all said oh what was he doing at the
• 54:34
  end? And I had no answer.
• 54:37
  And I was the guy you go to to ask about Doctor Who and I had
• 54:40
  no answer. So not only did I think it was
• 54:43
  shit, but everybody else at my school thought it was shit and
• 54:47
  held me personally responsible because I was the Doctor Who guy
• 54:51
  and the alien hunt. Alien is a wonderful film.
• 54:55
  You can't do alien in studio wherever it was of TV center
• 55:00
  with flood lighting and multi camera.
• 55:02
  So yes, God bless them for trying to do alien.
• 55:05
  But we've got Alien and we could see a sorry Aliens and we could
• 55:09
  see aliens. So the problem with, you know,
• 55:10
  when, when the Hinchcliffe and Holmes are revoking classic old
• 55:14
  films, you'd occasionally we catch a classic old film every
• 55:16
  now and again to be reminded of you.
• 55:18
  You, you didn't have it sort of available to compare it to.
• 55:22
  I could have watched Aliens immediately after dragon fire
• 55:25
  and I'd have gone well, that's good because that's made the way
• 55:29
  it is. And that isn't because that's
• 55:31
  made the way it is. So it's it's folly to try and do
• 55:35
  that. So it's with a heavy heart
• 55:37
  because there's, there's much, there's much to recommend it,
• 55:42
  but but I think it's, it's it, it's pretty close to the nadir
• 55:47
  of, of, and because a lot of the comic, the Star Wars cantina is
• 55:51
  the other one. We've got aliens.
• 55:53
  We've also got Star Wars Star Wars Cantina is full of viscous
• 55:57
  liquids and, and, and, and sort of smoke and heat in the air.
• 56:01
  And it's got the haze of film and all of this.
• 56:03
  This has got latex creatures that haven't got that haven't
• 56:06
  got any viscosity or, or liquid or, or, or sort of life about
• 56:10
  them. And then it's got jokes about
• 56:12
  fucking milkshake. And you know, comedy is a really
• 56:17
  important part of Doctor too, but it's very rarely that Doctor
• 56:20
  Who writes. Yes, I understand this is
• 56:22
  appealing to the kids again, but it always appealed to the kids
• 56:25
  without writing down to the kids.
• 56:27
  It wasn't Tea bag. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't
• 56:30
  children's television. The reason it succeeded in the
• 56:33
  60s was because it's not like the other children show in shows
• 56:36
  in the 60s. It writes in a way that in a, in
• 56:41
  a manner that it's, it trusts the kids to get what it's
• 56:44
  talking about. It doesn't talk down to them.
• 56:46
  I think the humor in this too often is, is sort of lame kiddie
• 56:51
  humor, not panto. Panto is, is, is an art form in,
• 56:56
  in all sorts of different ways and has great skill about it
• 56:59
  and, and is pitched and, and the whole wait.
• 57:01
  The reason panto works is because he's tonally absolutely
• 57:04
  bang on. It knows what it's doing.
• 57:06
  It's got an adult thing going on as well as a thing that's
• 57:08
  accessible to kids. I think some of the gags in this
• 57:11
  and some of the the the tone of, you know, the customer and the
• 57:14
  ice cream and the milkshake, you know, you don't do the Star Wars
• 57:17
  canteener and have fucking milkshake in it.
• 57:20
  And so, you know, I think it's wayward in that sense.
• 57:24
  So yeah, I'm afraid I am. I am putting, I'm putting it in
• 57:30
  the bin and I'm pouring lots of leftover ice cream ridden banana
• 57:34
  milkshake on top of its fetid corpse.
• 57:39
  Michael, you look like you were desperate to jump.
• 57:41
  In then, my Lord, may I approach the.
• 57:44
  Bench please. Right.
• 57:47
  The reason he sells his crew? Is he's a pirate.
• 57:51
  That's that's his all raised on Detroit.
• 57:53
  It's always like the kids understand.
• 57:55
  Oh good, he's a pirate. So, Doctor Who?
• 58:00
  Moral crusading hero who's fun to be around but has a a strong
• 58:04
  moral core goes oh, that's OK because you've been in it
• 58:07
  before. You can sell your crew to
• 58:08
  consign them to become space zombies.
• 58:11
  Well, hey up, hey up. He's a buddy.
• 58:12
  Sort of. What about He's not.
• 58:15
  He's the Doctor's mate. He's a de facto companion.
• 58:17
  No, the doctor just gets home with everyone.
• 58:19
  Right, that's my first problem. He.
• 58:22
  He does. He does let.
• 58:23
  Mel leave with him and selling your whole crew to be turned
• 58:28
  into ice zombies is a really bad business model for a pirate.
• 58:32
  It's a it's a good business model for a slaver, but not I
• 58:36
  would I would contend not for piracy.
• 58:38
  But you said that Glitz is a slave.
• 58:39
  Trader. Yeah, well.
• 58:42
  Essentially, yes, if you if you. Sell people for money, body life
• 58:46
  are not going to put up. With none of that.
• 58:48
  Shit going forward, no, he's just an happy pirate, right?
• 58:51
  We've done that one. OK, the cliffhanger when he's
• 58:55
  hanging from the Cliff, that's. It's a cliffhanger.
• 58:58
  Yeah, but I'm really funny, isn't it?
• 59:00
  Let's be honest, I don't. I don't think it needs to be.
• 59:02
  Funny, it's a kind of a right this I've got Lords here, I have
• 59:07
  no objection to hang hanging. Off the Cliff and having a
• 59:09
  cliffhanger as a cliffhanger, but he needs to have a reason to
• 59:12
  be hanging off the Cliff so he doesn't look like a Dick because
• 59:15
  he's got to do. But that's what they're doing.
• 59:18
  They're criticizing. The format.
• 59:20
  Of the show. So that's the reason why.
• 59:22
  There. Is a there is a beat after he so
• 59:26
  after he goes down click. Is it Chris?
• 59:29
  Cloth this. Chris Cloth.
• 59:31
  Yeah. He leaves a beat after the
• 59:34
  doctor realizes he's got nowhere to go.
• 59:36
  Chris Cloth. Chris, hello.
• 59:39
  Chris Cloth leaves a beat, and that's because he knows what's
• 59:42
  going on. He is going, give it a second
• 59:45
  and then we'll call and he's going.
• 59:49
  People are going to go. Why is he there?
• 59:51
  What's the point of this? He's saying cliffhangers are,
• 59:56
  you know, fabricated. And so he fabricates the
• 59:59
  ultimate pointless cliffhanger and then leaves a beat to let to
• 1:00:03
  let you know people like us 87 years later.
• 1:00:07
  I think you've got to be quite. Sophisticated.
• 1:00:09
  I would I would argue that when you're.
• 1:00:11
  When your show is not as popular as it once was, having a key
• 1:00:14
  moment of the episode essentially going yeah, we think
• 1:00:17
  it's shit as well. Is is probably not.
• 1:00:20
  I mean, was was Gerald Ratner advising on on how to make the
• 1:00:23
  show? Well, I'm I'm not saying that
• 1:00:26
  the people. Involved were trying to make the
• 1:00:28
  classic show. I'm saying they were pioneers,
• 1:00:31
  right Next one. So there's for me, for me, Toby.
• 1:00:37
  There's nothing. The only alien thing here is the
• 1:00:41
  design of the thing in the caves or whatever.
• 1:00:45
  That's the only alien element to this, because it's not like it's
• 1:00:47
  hunting them down, they're hunting it.
• 1:00:50
  So I got no problem. With the hunting.
• 1:00:52
  Thing and I think with the alien with with the idea that they're
• 1:00:57
  aping alien or trying to ape alien I think they're just
• 1:01:00
  cameoing it yeah yeah. They've.
• 1:01:03
  Already established the dragon as a gentle creature that's
• 1:01:07
  protecting the treasure, so there's nothing scary about it.
• 1:01:10
  It's like, it's like it's. Thora heard in the ice caves
• 1:01:15
  when they find. It it'll give you a nice.
• 1:01:17
  Hug I I I do actually quite like.
• 1:01:19
  That sequence. And I like the two actors and
• 1:01:21
  one of them, Stuart Organ was in in Grey and Chill as they died
• 1:01:23
  this year. And he was he was a very
• 1:01:24
  reliable and I like Stephanie Fairman who plays Mcglue.
• 1:01:27
  And then there's that great bit where she sort of goes, there's
• 1:01:29
  a close up of her and they used it in the trailer that you know,
• 1:01:31
  for what's coming up tonight. And she was a, you know, imagine
• 1:01:33
  it coming out of the darkness. But then she she ruins it all
• 1:01:35
  because, and it's not her fault because she's then given this
• 1:01:39
  line at the end where she says Mr. Kane wants the head.
• 1:01:42
  And I ain't never leave a job half done.
• 1:01:45
  And you go, what is what is? So it's either been written as
• 1:01:49
  somebody with a regional accent and they've got somebody doing
• 1:01:54
  RP and they haven't and they have.
• 1:01:56
  So you either you make the actor do the accent or you change the
• 1:02:00
  line. But it's the most incongruous
• 1:02:02
  line. And she's really good.
• 1:02:04
  She's, I think I know what's going on, I think.
• 1:02:07
  They're going down this piracy route, you know, and the, and
• 1:02:11
  the, the these people are sort of crew members.
• 1:02:14
  Oh, and I ain't never. Leave a job.
• 1:02:16
  Well then she should. Then she should have done the.
• 1:02:18
  Whole thing like that. Yeah, well, she should have.
• 1:02:21
  Done. But you know.
• 1:02:22
  As well as I do Toby. You can't blame the actor, but
• 1:02:26
  they but well, indeed. But they've, I mean.
• 1:02:28
  They've had a bit of time to work this out.
• 1:02:30
  Why somebody didn't ask the question or, or, or address it.
• 1:02:34
  I suspect she might have asked the question.
• 1:02:35
  They should just do it love you know which, which is, it's
• 1:02:38
  slapped us, but it's so bizarre. I mean, I'm kind of fond of it
• 1:02:41
  because I think it's batshit, but it is.
• 1:02:44
  It's the Sophie Aldridge problem.
• 1:02:45
  Isn't it? That is clearly supposed to be a
• 1:02:47
  a a lower class sort of cockney character.
• 1:02:50
  And yet the whole all the lines being played like you know,
• 1:02:53
  she's well, this I've eaten. This is the problem.
• 1:02:55
  With Ace, despite the great ambition and the fact that that
• 1:02:58
  Sophie has such great energy about her and and and gets
• 1:03:00
  better and better, Ace is a teenage girl written and
• 1:03:04
  conceived and constructed by people who've never met a
• 1:03:08
  teenage girl. That's the only explanation.
• 1:03:10
  I I'm played by a musical theatre performer.
• 1:03:12
  You know, and that's the yeah, that's the issue.
• 1:03:15
  I haven't. I've got more on my post it note
• 1:03:17
  for a while I saw you mentioned teabag.
• 1:03:19
  And you started scribbling. Oh yeah, that set me off so.
• 1:03:22
  What's wrong with teabag? Well, it's.
• 1:03:25
  It's not doctors. If Doctor Who tones itself as
• 1:03:28
  teabag, I think it becomes a different show and not a teabag
• 1:03:30
  is the key to time. Done with, done with more jokes.
• 1:03:34
  I'm a performance style. I'm talking performance style.
• 1:03:37
  Yeah. Yeah, because it is.
• 1:03:38
  Very stagey tea bag, but I'm just I'm just backing up tea bag
• 1:03:41
  here because it's dead good. I would.
• 1:03:45
  Yeah, I would say. As a 7 year old, just thinking
• 1:03:48
  back to 87, Doctor Who of that period and tea bag and I think
• 1:03:54
  Alfonso Bonzo with Alex Jennings might have been a little bit
• 1:03:57
  later, but as that they all live next door to each other in my
• 1:04:02
  head that. And yeah, so I think it's I
• 1:04:05
  think in terms of in in tone, season 24 is like does slide
• 1:04:12
  into proper children's TV for the first time.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah, it does if drop bags turned.
• 1:04:17
  Up in season. 24 I wouldn't be at all.
• 1:04:19
  Yeah, yeah, she would. She would drop.
• 1:04:20
  Bags would not be out of place, but also look at what's around.
• 1:04:24
  Like at the BBC at the time, you know, like things like, does
• 1:04:29
  anyone know what Bad Boys is? I've got a feeling.
• 1:04:32
  You're going to tell us? Oh my God, bad boys.
• 1:04:36
  Yeah, that. What was his name?
• 1:04:37
  Boys? Yeah, his name.
• 1:04:38
  His second name is Boys and he's with.
• 1:04:40
  AZ yeah. He's well, he's a naughty, he's
• 1:04:43
  a. Naughty schoolboy, but he's kind
• 1:04:46
  of like a working class naughty, naughty schoolboy and this is
• 1:04:48
  like ABBC series at the time that's on like CBBCI had
• 1:04:53
  forgotten all about that the. Reason I bring up bad boys.
• 1:04:56
  Is, is, If you watch Bad Boys, you're going to recognise the
• 1:05:01
  shots, the acting style, the feel, the things that are left
• 1:05:08
  in, the things that aren't edited out, the, the, the lack
• 1:05:11
  of care. You know you're going to
• 1:05:13
  recognise it because shouldn't we be?
• 1:05:15
  Shouldn't we be aspiring? For.
• 1:05:17
  Something a cut above that. Why?
• 1:05:19
  Why? Why?
• 1:05:20
  Well. That's what we get with
• 1:05:21
  Remembrance next. Season.
• 1:05:23
  Well, we do, which is, do you know what?
• 1:05:25
  Do you know what the most beautiful thing about season 24
• 1:05:27
  is? Is that it it ends on dragon
• 1:05:30
  fire and then you tune in? What is it?
• 1:05:32
  Nine months later and remembers the Dalis comes on and you're
• 1:05:36
  like, what the hell? Where did this come from?
• 1:05:39
  Oh, you're. Saying it's goodbye to fall.
• 1:05:42
  I'm saying it's like a I'm saying it's.
• 1:05:43
  Like a warm up, it's like a sexy striptease before the main.
• 1:05:49
  That's a long warm up though. You know. 12 but the contrast is
• 1:05:53
  unbelievable. But it's not a contrast in in
• 1:05:56
  quality. It's a contrast in style, tone.
• 1:06:00
  Yeah. I don't think I've got anything
• 1:06:02
  else to criticize Toby's surfing for.
• 1:06:05
  Well, I'll tell you. What I'll quickly jump in with.
• 1:06:07
  My opinion, and then we'll move on to the next story.
• 1:06:09
  I knew you was going to be trouble, you know, the second
• 1:06:11
  you turned up. Please continue.
• 1:06:15
  I really like Dragon Fire, although I think it's probably
• 1:06:18
  my least favorite of the season, but I still really like it.
• 1:06:21
  I like the setting as depicted in the script.
• 1:06:26
  So ice world is, it's a really romantic sort of fantasy world
• 1:06:30
  for kids to go on a treasure hunting, isn't it?
• 1:06:32
  Singing trees, Ice gardens, You know that crazy freezer centre,
• 1:06:37
  Kane's palace, The sheer ice faces like on the page.
• 1:06:41
  Man, if I have the money it could be absolutely incredible.
• 1:06:44
  And fortunately enough, I can squint enough to see the
• 1:06:49
  ambition in The Rising, even if it doesn't always hit the
• 1:06:52
  screen. But I also really love Ace and
• 1:06:56
  Mel in this. And I think for a second, not
• 1:06:59
  for long, for a second, they're going for like class and social
• 1:07:02
  differences. The bit where Mel comes into
• 1:07:04
  Ace's room and she's sort of looking around like she's some
• 1:07:07
  dirty scab and starts doing her washing for her.
• 1:07:11
  I really like that. And I think have they gone on?
• 1:07:13
  You could have done something really interesting with a sort
• 1:07:16
  of obviously middle class companion and lower class
• 1:07:19
  companion, which they didn't do actually later on with Big
• 1:07:23
  Finish. And I wish they had, but they
• 1:07:25
  didn't. But I do think they're a strong
• 1:07:27
  team. I think Mel brings out Ace's
• 1:07:29
  protective side when she's sort of quite hard.
• 1:07:32
  And I think Ace brings out Mel's rebellious side, which is just
• 1:07:35
  great fun because by the end of episode 1, she's literally
• 1:07:38
  throwing bombs at people, you know, like, and that's not the
• 1:07:40
  male we've been hanging out with.
• 1:07:42
  It's a really fun dynamic. Bonnie was supposed to be in
• 1:07:45
  season 25 and I just can't imagine the role she would have
• 1:07:49
  had and remember sort of Daleks. But I could see her in Happiness
• 1:07:53
  Patrol though, I think she'd fit in quite well in there.
• 1:07:56
  And the last thing I really love about this story, I mean,
• 1:07:59
  there's lots of things I love, but I've just got 3, It's
• 1:08:01
  Sylvester McCoy. And I don't say this very often
• 1:08:04
  because I'm quite hard on Sylvester McCoy.
• 1:08:06
  But I think throughout season 24, he realizes he's got the job
• 1:08:10
  of a lifetime. And he starts off taking the
• 1:08:13
  piss of it. And by the end of the season, he
• 1:08:15
  he realizes this is gold. And, you know, you give him a
• 1:08:19
  long speech and it's touch and go whether he's going to get it
• 1:08:23
  right or not. And there are times like that
• 1:08:25
  speech at the end of Battlefield where it just becomes a
• 1:08:28
  horrible, garbled mess. And you're sort of watching, oh,
• 1:08:31
  please stop. But the end of this, you know,
• 1:08:34
  where he's every inch the moral hero and he's delivering that.
• 1:08:36
  You know, your people were annihilated, your pilot
• 1:08:39
  obliterated. You're too late, Kaden, for your
• 1:08:41
  revenge. Time has flown by.
• 1:08:44
  All of that. He's word perfect.
• 1:08:46
  He's absolutely on it. Why the fuck?
• 1:08:50
  Doesn't Kane? No, Kane has not been living
• 1:08:52
  like a hermit in isolation. He's been living in a place
• 1:08:54
  where people come and do their shopping and nobody's once gone.
• 1:08:57
  Fucking hell, man, I'm sorry to hear about your home planet.
• 1:09:00
  And he's not bothered to check because I'm plotting my revenge,
• 1:09:02
  but I assume it's still haven't heard from anybody from there
• 1:09:05
  for ages. But as I'm here shopping, have
• 1:09:08
  you got the ordinance? Survey of the universe for that
• 1:09:10
  little sector, yeah, but that old woman in stones of.
• 1:09:13
  Blood has been living with that girl, the Kaliak, for how many
• 1:09:18
  years and she's never said, oh you look a bit like them in
• 1:09:21
  pictures. It's funny you mentioned the
• 1:09:23
  stones of. Blood.
• 1:09:24
  It's the only the woman who plays the little girl's mother.
• 1:09:27
  That's her only other story, isn't it?
• 1:09:28
  Sharon Taylor? Yes, Yes.
• 1:09:30
  Wonderful in both as well, no? No, no, but I think, I think
• 1:09:33
  he's genuinely funny. That scene with the techno
• 1:09:35
  Babble is funny. The look of panic on his face
• 1:09:37
  when the guard spills out, all of that techno Babble at the end
• 1:09:40
  of the scene is very funny. He does slapstick well because
• 1:09:43
  he's the best of McCoy, and that's been his career to this
• 1:09:45
  point. So all that stuff where he's
• 1:09:47
  climbing all over glitz is very, very funny.
• 1:09:49
  But he's really thoughtful as well.
• 1:09:51
  I just love that line reading of your debt to Kane.
• 1:09:54
  You'll never be able to pay it back, ever.
• 1:09:57
  And McCoy just does those quiet, haunting moments so brilliantly.
• 1:10:01
  And he gets quite a lot this season, too.
• 1:10:04
  Yeah. I So I think this is really fun.
• 1:10:07
  It is trad, it's probably the weakest of the year, but I just
• 1:10:10
  think it's mercilessly entertaining to watch.
• 1:10:13
  However, because two of our panel have been Grinches tonight
• 1:10:18
  and declared that dragon fires in the bin.
• 1:10:21
  Dylan Reece is now crying into his Turkey because it's his
• 1:10:24
  favorite Doctor Who story. Sorry.
• 1:10:27
  Dylan. Let's go over.
• 1:10:30
  To. Rob now for his choice of the
• 1:10:33
  remaining three stories. OK, I'm picking this one.
• 1:10:38
  I've told you this. Joe before I think on hamster
• 1:10:40
  but when I first watched it, loved it.
• 1:10:44
  The cleaners were the best thing ever quite frankly.
• 1:10:47
  Didn't see it again until 1999 when I was at university and
• 1:10:51
  obtained on video. Put it in, took took the VHS out
• 1:10:55
  of the VCR as if it was a dog shit.
• 1:10:57
  We just like so. Oh my God, what the hell was
• 1:10:59
  that? I was.
• 1:11:02
  Wrong but the the. Shock between what I remembered
• 1:11:04
  and what I actually watched as a 19 year old who I think was
• 1:11:08
  hoping for something kind of yeah, just not what it.
• 1:11:13
  Is anyway. Paradise Towers I'm I'm
• 1:11:16
  advocating for because and I knew this was all it was this
• 1:11:19
  season. It was always going to be kind
• 1:11:20
  of the arm wrestle between not not what I remember and what I
• 1:11:26
  what exists to me now, because I that that's not an interesting
• 1:11:29
  thing for me. It's really, it's the thing
• 1:11:31
  about Paradise Towers is the idea of what it almost is, is
• 1:11:34
  just so compelling. And yeah, it's obviously it's
• 1:11:38
  quite famously one of its influences is High Rise by JG
• 1:11:42
  Ballard. And it's it's one of the most
• 1:11:44
  2000 AD bits, season 24. I would say the whole thing is
• 1:11:49
  really this is the season that is influenced by 2000 AD in a
• 1:11:54
  way that season 25 and 26 actually I think ease off on
• 1:11:58
  that quite a bit. But Carmel's, you know, bringing
• 1:12:02
  his influences in, I can't think if everyone had gotten the memo
• 1:12:04
  about, you know, this isn't original, but you know, tonally
• 1:12:08
  if everyone, if everyone was on the same page about what
• 1:12:10
  Paradise Towers should be. If everyone had.
• 1:12:14
  Gone through that. It would sing, but it nearly
• 1:12:17
  does. Richard Breyers, I think is
• 1:12:19
  terrific in it until he becomes Cragnon, but I think as the
• 1:12:24
  chief caretaker, no, I'm all on board.
• 1:12:26
  Clive Marrison, I just he can't help.
• 1:12:29
  It'd be great and. Everything I think.
• 1:12:31
  The dialogue is wonderful. The caretakers will book quoting
• 1:12:40
  the Kang's dialect. Yes, there are plot holes you
• 1:12:44
  could drive a truck through, but you know that they're so that
• 1:12:48
  you could all you know, if you squint and take a step back, you
• 1:12:52
  can, you could, they could all. There's nothing that couldn't be
• 1:12:55
  explained away by a line. The whole idea of Paradise
• 1:12:59
  towers, just setting it in, yes, it's like they're kind of space
• 1:13:04
  corridors, but they're not. They're it's recognizably an
• 1:13:08
  inner city power block. Dirty, isn't it?
• 1:13:11
  Yeah, it's grimy. It's.
• 1:13:13
  Dirty. It's a it's a story about urban
• 1:13:16
  housing. It's a story that is angry about
• 1:13:19
  the world we're actually in. It's not about, you know, some
• 1:13:22
  element that's the most valuable thing in the universe from a
• 1:13:26
  Galaxy somewhere. Over there it's it's about.
• 1:13:30
  Here, yes, if you know all things I want to.
• 1:13:35
  Love about it the. Things it doesn't succeed in
• 1:13:38
  being, but if you cast actual, you know, Grange Hill type kids
• 1:13:44
  as the Kangs, if you know, if everyone had just, you know,
• 1:13:49
  been on board with, you know, just this is what we're going
• 1:13:52
  for a 2000 AD comic book angry satirical punky piece, then it
• 1:13:59
  would have been the stone cold masterpiece.
• 1:14:02
  It fails, but the intention is there, the energy there and
• 1:14:06
  Sylvester McCoy is there. The rule book scene where he's
• 1:14:10
  being held prisoner by two of the caretakers, that is, that is
• 1:14:15
  his doctor right there from the from essentially the beginning.
• 1:14:21
  It's, you know. The.
• 1:14:23
  Cleaners are these beautiful art deco robots which are only
• 1:14:33
  terrifying because of of the fact they're behaving in the way
• 1:14:39
  they shouldn't be. I mean, yes, why why would why
• 1:14:43
  would you need buzz source to clear a corridor?
• 1:14:46
  I don't know, I don't know, but it doesn't matter.
• 1:14:47
  You know, it's, you know, it's, it's this is kind of, this is
• 1:14:52
  angry 8 mid 80s satire aimed at 7 year olds.
• 1:14:58
  And I know everything that's wrong with it and certain, you
• 1:15:03
  know, days of the week, I'd say bin.
• 1:15:04
  However, I, I think this one is too important to to not let
• 1:15:12
  through. It's hugely ambitious.
• 1:15:16
  The production fails it, but the elements in there are so damn
• 1:15:21
  good and they're all, they're all there.
• 1:15:24
  They're all there for a reason. And this is, this is Andrew
• 1:15:27
  Partmelt's Doctor Who. Yeah.
• 1:15:32
  Do you know I did. An interview with Steven Wyatt
• 1:15:35
  recently, well, there's a planet pics for strangers in space and
• 1:15:40
  I was asking him a few questions about, it's mostly not about
• 1:15:42
  Doctor Who, but I asked him a few questions about Doctor Who
• 1:15:44
  and he said he wrote that script for Paradise Towers very fast,
• 1:15:48
  but just assumed, you know, it's all inside.
• 1:15:51
  They they can pull this off and then saw what hit the screen and
• 1:15:55
  then sort of lowered his expectations a bit for his
• 1:15:58
  second story great show in the Galaxy, which he thought was
• 1:16:02
  absolutely superbly realized. But yeah, even he said he was a
• 1:16:05
  bit taken aback by just how mannered everything was in
• 1:16:12
  Paradise Towers. To be honest, just a little bit
• 1:16:15
  of. Fine tuning here and there would
• 1:16:17
  have really saved it. We have we did we on this on our
• 1:16:19
  discussion of Greater's show. We kind of spent most of that
• 1:16:22
  discussion, I think talking about Paradise Towers.
• 1:16:25
  But yeah, if, if, if, if, if the production team of a year later
• 1:16:29
  with that confidence and knowing what they could do and you know,
• 1:16:32
  knowing what they were doing, if we if they if they could have
• 1:16:35
  done Paradise Towers that year, it would have been it would have
• 1:16:40
  been the best come 26 when they're actually making.
• 1:16:43
  Drama, at that point, it could have been unbelievably good.
• 1:16:47
  Yeah. Yeah, Rob, Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  Rob, go ahead, Mikey. I was just going to say, you
• 1:16:51
  make such a good. Point.
• 1:16:52
  I've never heard it before about how if the Kangs were like
• 1:16:57
  Grange Hill, you know, Sylvia. Young actors, Oh my.
• 1:17:02
  God, that would have changed it completely.
• 1:17:05
  I thought exactly the same. That really chimed with me and
• 1:17:07
  hadn't occurred at all, and it would have given the whole thing
• 1:17:11
  a totally different feel. I think that's a, that's a
• 1:17:14
  genius observation. It really is, I think.
• 1:17:16
  I think it's don't they? They've got to feel.
• 1:17:18
  A bit feral? Not just that, I think not.
• 1:17:20
  Just that I think it's the anger.
• 1:17:22
  It's the anger of no, no, no. Yeah, this may look a bit sci
• 1:17:25
  fied up, but this is the these are the buildings we, we and our
• 1:17:30
  parents grew up in. These are the buildings that
• 1:17:32
  went up post war. So yeah, I, I, I think if if you
• 1:17:36
  just if you just cast people you know who might convincingly have
• 1:17:41
  grown up in places not very different from paradise towers
• 1:17:45
  and that the anger in the script would be there on the screen.
• 1:17:48
  And you just just you don't get that one change flies do Rob at
• 1:17:51
  all. You don't get.
• 1:17:52
  That the the the bottom floors is the frustration and the anger
• 1:17:57
  as it goes on. You don't get that.
• 1:17:59
  I said the difference. With the Lord of the Flies is.
• 1:18:01
  That it's really it's, you know, it's the, it's the, it's the
• 1:18:03
  private school shit, shitty little asshole kids.
• 1:18:08
  It's, it's their private school upbringing.
• 1:18:09
  And that kind of makes them kind of start eating each other in
• 1:18:13
  this. It's their, it's the
• 1:18:14
  architecture, the architecture and the decisions of government.
• 1:18:18
  And the, the, the caretakers are, you know, they're the kind.
• 1:18:22
  Of the the. Leftovers of the representatives
• 1:18:25
  of of that the Kangs of the victims, the Kangs of the
• 1:18:28
  absolute victims in this and yeah, they, they play it they
• 1:18:32
  play they're not they're not killing each other.
• 1:18:34
  It's the the system is eating them.
• 1:18:37
  Trouble is, they they sound like they've.
• 1:18:39
  Come out of public school. That's the problem.
• 1:18:43
  Yeah. Although I will say, I will say
• 1:18:45
  it's one of the very few stories that Janet Fielding watched on
• 1:18:49
  behind the sofa and had the best time with, you know, so I always
• 1:18:52
  remember just how she was flying the flag for Paradise Towers.
• 1:18:55
  I don't know if you've seen any of those, but she's not too keen
• 1:18:57
  on much of it. But she loved this one.
• 1:19:00
  Well, what I imagine. The reason why she likes.
• 1:19:02
  It is because it's, there's an academia to it.
• 1:19:06
  It's, it's, it's a kind of, if you look at the characters,
• 1:19:09
  they're all quite Brechtian. It's kind of like, OK, we're the
• 1:19:12
  caretakers, we're the old people, we're the youth.
• 1:19:16
  That's the real black Brechtian thing.
• 1:19:18
  So I would imagine someone like that might shine with someone
• 1:19:20
  like Janet, who's quite, you know, I think, I think it was
• 1:19:23
  more the fruity. Performances, you know, those
• 1:19:25
  character actors coming in and having the best time, but but
• 1:19:27
  that's because it is very. The funny thing about season 24
• 1:19:30
  is time and the Rani is like sort of, I don't know, it's like
• 1:19:35
  ITC television almost. Paradise Towers is like stagey,
• 1:19:40
  it's almost like a play. Delta and the Bannerman is like
• 1:19:43
  a film and Dragon Fire, you're back to a play.
• 1:19:47
  It's just it, it's all these different things going going on.
• 1:19:52
  But that's the ride I enjoy sort of taking.
• 1:19:56
  Oh, and the cleaners in Paradise Towers for me are ripped off
• 1:20:02
  from labyrinths. The cleaners.
• 1:20:05
  Just putting it out there. Well, I'm going to come see you
• 1:20:07
  in a moment. But Toby, should we do the
• 1:20:09
  comments first? Yes.
• 1:20:12
  So. The comments on Paradise Towers.
• 1:20:16
  We begin with Dylan Reece. Dylan says perfect 80s kids TV,
• 1:20:22
  high concept, lots of laughs, lots of danger.
• 1:20:25
  No, it doesn't need to be darker or pitched like a Hinchcliffe
• 1:20:28
  era story. It's perfect.
• 1:20:30
  I think he's got his. Blinkers on, you know, watching.
• 1:20:33
  This season, Jason Thompson A bold attempt at a new type of
• 1:20:36
  story that falls flat because no one can quite decide what
• 1:20:39
  they're aiming for and it ends up all over the place.
• 1:20:42
  Bend. George is lost, says.
• 1:20:46
  Delightfully dark in a silly way, but surprisingly good word
• 1:20:49
  world building that gives an interesting window into how this
• 1:20:52
  society works. Feels like a lot of thought went
• 1:20:55
  into it to make it believable even amongst all the silliness.
• 1:20:59
  Wonderful and massively underrated.
• 1:21:02
  I hope you find your way, George.
• 1:21:04
  Paul Quinn says given it's satire on class, home ownership
• 1:21:07
  and petty officialdom, Briars is brilliantly cast as a hyper
• 1:21:11
  version of the type of character he usually played on TV, Oscar
• 1:21:16
  Groucho. Says a dystopian.
• 1:21:18
  JG Ballard novel on a Lovejoy budget Briars channelling
• 1:21:22
  Olivier as performed by the Tis was cast adds to the fun Lovejoy
• 1:21:28
  was all. Lovejoy was all.
• 1:21:29
  Shot on film, it would have killed Lovejoy, but yeah.
• 1:21:32
  I'm just thinking that my God, no, we can only dream.
• 1:21:36
  James. Hadward, Bennett says.
• 1:21:38
  On paper, superb, but the design?
• 1:21:40
  Let's sit down. The cleaners don't look like
• 1:21:42
  robots. They're clean but could be evil.
• 1:21:44
  The pull crab doesn't even look functional.
• 1:21:47
  A shame, as it's otherwise great, Jeff Richardson says.
• 1:21:50
  Pick of the. Year.
• 1:21:51
  It's hilarious. The robots are total crap.
• 1:21:54
  The pool cleaner is a janky freak show.
• 1:21:57
  Mel and the Rezes, Mel and Pecks, all of it.
• 1:22:00
  I don't love the Kangs, but mostly because they're grown
• 1:22:03
  women pretending to be kids. Mel wins this one nine out of
• 1:22:07
  10. John Hall says it's his least.
• 1:22:10
  Favorite It's on screen realization goes completely
• 1:22:12
  against the grain of the script and premise.
• 1:22:14
  Nobody's on the same page, and by the time he plays Cragnon,
• 1:22:18
  Briars has wandered into into a completely different chapter.
• 1:22:22
  Big orange Michael. Says not.
• 1:22:24
  A favorite when I first saw it, but it's grown on me.
• 1:22:27
  It even manages to make the cliche of running down corridors
• 1:22:30
  interesting. No small feat.
• 1:22:31
  Keep it a design of those corridors.
• 1:22:34
  That sort of Ross design so he can swing the camera, it's very
• 1:22:38
  clever, Daniel Rosley says. What do High Rise Shivers, A
• 1:22:42
  Clockwork Orange, Judge Dredd, The Raid, Redemption and RT DS
• 1:22:46
  Gridlock all have in common? They're all influenced by more
• 1:22:50
  polished and expensive than, but not nearly as fun as Paradise
• 1:22:54
  Towers. Hey, sigh, Hart says.
• 1:22:58
  Felt more tentative than the rest, a bit unsure of tone and
• 1:23:01
  performance. Some of it seemed a bit
• 1:23:03
  grotesque, but the image of the cleaners dragging away Tabby
• 1:23:06
  through the waste disposal and her slippered legs in the bin
• 1:23:09
  made me laugh a lot. The slipper coming out the back
• 1:23:12
  of the. Cleaners is something else.
• 1:23:14
  David Gillespie Pratt, A fun and funny story, and another one
• 1:23:18
  that feels big as they make the most of the studio sets.
• 1:23:21
  Build high for happiness, Philip R Clark says.
• 1:23:25
  The closest Doctor Who gets to a comic strip.
• 1:23:28
  Despite a few casting issues, this is a great story about
• 1:23:31
  apocalyptic factions being formed.
• 1:23:34
  As a 7 year old I loved it and the nostalgia will always keep
• 1:23:37
  it in my top ten. Mel gets to be cool and brave
• 1:23:40
  too. Jim Allenby if this has been
• 1:23:43
  filmed on. Location.
• 1:23:44
  It would have been better received, Gareth Boli says.
• 1:23:47
  Top tier The cleaners terrified me as a child, dragging rezes
• 1:23:52
  through the drains, but it's the world building that shines
• 1:23:55
  through. An escape from New York ways.
• 1:23:58
  It's like he's in the room. Dan pin wire is the find of the
• 1:24:01
  season. The multi layers set dressing,
• 1:24:03
  the studio floor and the lighting are done really well.
• 1:24:07
  The cleaners are silly but I love them.
• 1:24:09
  Red Kangs are best. Michael Storm.
• 1:24:12
  The use of. Unique, colloquial language
• 1:24:14
  helps sell it as a real world. The guest cast is mostly
• 1:24:17
  excellent, and Briars give us a fantastic performance as CRO
• 1:24:20
  Agnon, giving the vibe of someone who hasn't figured out
• 1:24:23
  how to work the body correctly. I don't disagree with that, you
• 1:24:27
  know. Daniel Knight, The best script
• 1:24:29
  of the season and an exceptionally well designed.
• 1:24:31
  Unfortunately, the tone is all wrong and while I adore Briars,
• 1:24:35
  his performance in part 4 is terrible.
• 1:24:37
  Tilda and Tabby are camp grotesques that are killed off
• 1:24:40
  too soon but in spectacular style.
• 1:24:43
  Paul Sly says the 1st. Doctor Who story I saw live, so
• 1:24:47
  it holds a special place in my heart.
• 1:24:49
  It roars with a new style, hilariously funny and sinister,
• 1:24:53
  with a very dark concept. Bonkers but brilliant.
• 1:24:57
  And finally, Darren Lit. Roundel says.
• 1:24:59
  One of my favorite stories. I loved it in 1987 and I love it
• 1:25:03
  now. I can even reveal when the
• 1:25:04
  nostalgia of it or fantasize about how to improve it.
• 1:25:07
  And I get huge pleasure from both.
• 1:25:11
  Mikey Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:25:13
  So I. I I really like Paradise Towers.
• 1:25:17
  It's so close to a stage play in a lovely way.
• 1:25:22
  It's kind. Of thing I'd love, I'd like.
• 1:25:24
  To be in, you know I'm. Probably as well.
• 1:25:27
  Cast as the beefy guy, as the beefy guy that's in it.
• 1:25:34
  It's yeah, I think you'd be a very good deputy chief
• 1:25:37
  caretaker. You know, Oh, thank you.
• 1:25:39
  You're welcome. But that whole the.
• 1:25:41
  Whole way that. They talk to each other and
• 1:25:43
  everything. It's all about the dialogue.
• 1:25:46
  You know, it's very 60s in a way.
• 1:25:49
  You know how like 60's, the Hartnell stuff is like all about
• 1:25:52
  the dialogue. Like, it's all about the
• 1:25:55
  dialogue. This.
• 1:25:55
  And it's. Yeah.
• 1:25:57
  And it's staging in the best possible way, really.
• 1:26:01
  But something that one of the commenters said, chime with me
• 1:26:05
  there. Like imagine if they'd have done
• 1:26:06
  this for real and done it in an actual tower block.
• 1:26:10
  Allah the bill you know with. With video.
• 1:26:14
  Cameras and OB, it's so different, wouldn't it?
• 1:26:17
  It would be. Unrecognizable and it would be
• 1:26:20
  like. Surreal, wouldn't it?
• 1:26:21
  It'd be totally surreal because you'd be getting in the lift
• 1:26:24
  with the Doctor in this grimy lift in High Gate or whatever,
• 1:26:28
  and you'd be coming out and Elizabeth Spriggs would be there
• 1:26:31
  gonna come into my flat and it would be even scarier.
• 1:26:36
  You know, the, the idea that these two old women are eating
• 1:26:39
  people. It would be so much more scary
• 1:26:41
  if you were in an actual flat, wouldn't it?
• 1:26:45
  I thought if you if you. Slap that kef.
• 1:26:46
  McCulloch Music. Over a genuine location the tone
• 1:26:50
  would just be so wow that gives me goosebumps that.
• 1:26:54
  Idea and that's what's so lovely about Doctor Who is that it
• 1:26:57
  could be this. It could be that.
• 1:26:58
  Imagine if they'd done this. Imagine if they'd done that.
• 1:27:00
  And like we get to do that and a lot of people, a lot of fans of
• 1:27:02
  things don't get to do that. So that's something they could
• 1:27:05
  have done. But I do like what they did.
• 1:27:08
  It's it's incredibly stagey for me.
• 1:27:11
  I've never read the book that everyone goes on about the high
• 1:27:16
  rises. Has anyone read it?
• 1:27:19
  Yes, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:27:21
  Rob is. It about.
• 1:27:22
  Is it like that or is it not? Not really.
• 1:27:25
  It's. No, it's a lot less like
• 1:27:28
  Paradise Towers than you'd think.
• 1:27:30
  It's, it's a, it's a bunch of rich people living in a, a more,
• 1:27:35
  more of a luxury flat. And the architect who built it
• 1:27:37
  lives at the top. Yeah, it, it's much more, I
• 1:27:42
  think, I think the main character is a lawyer or
• 1:27:44
  something. So no, it's much more of a kind
• 1:27:46
  of a JG Ballard satire on kind of people he knew and kind of
• 1:27:50
  people with money. It's a more money to place
• 1:27:54
  Paradise Tower. So really it just takes, I think
• 1:27:56
  it takes the idea of sitting in one block really is the main
• 1:28:00
  inspiration. But then it's kind of much more
• 1:28:02
  kind of Judge Dredd 2000 AD in terms of the Rezis, the Kangs,
• 1:28:07
  like even the caretakers, they could, they could all be really
• 1:28:10
  that's it's more like, yeah, it's more like a tower block in
• 1:28:12
  Judge Dredd. Really.
• 1:28:14
  That's actually the closest that you know, it's the I realized
• 1:28:17
  that's the closest thing it's to because everyone in there.
• 1:28:20
  Represents a type of person in society.
• 1:28:24
  Like that's the idea. And that's why I was going on
• 1:28:26
  about Brecht, because that's like, Oh yeah, totally, totally.
• 1:28:28
  Yeah. So.
• 1:28:30
  I sort of suspected the JG. Ballard thing was a thing that
• 1:28:33
  fans have just said because you know you.
• 1:28:35
  We should treat all things that we all say with suspicion,
• 1:28:38
  shouldn't we? I've heard that episode of On
• 1:28:41
  the Time. Lash Yeah, You know, I treat
• 1:28:42
  those. I am I.
• 1:28:43
  Am the myth breaker in general as you know Joe or?
• 1:28:48
  Starter. Yeah.
• 1:28:50
  Absolutely. But but yeah, I suspected it was
• 1:28:54
  just more about different types of people and if you literally
• 1:28:58
  trapped all those types. Of people in a small.
• 1:29:02
  Space, what would happen and that concept is so lovely and
• 1:29:06
  it's it's it's really well played out on stage.
• 1:29:08
  So and on stage, and this is on stage, we're basically watching
• 1:29:12
  on stage. Look at the way it starts.
• 1:29:14
  We hear when it starts, we hear like in the distance like the
• 1:29:18
  Kang's chanting, don't we? And stuff that's exactly our
• 1:29:21
  stage play would start. Very rarely do we get a cutaway
• 1:29:25
  shot or anything like that. I think it's, I think it's a
• 1:29:30
  really. Great thing, that doctor.
• 1:29:32
  Who did once Yeah, and and the whole idea of it is the.
• 1:29:35
  Whole idea of, you know, urban kind of housing like that is
• 1:29:39
  having flats on flats on flats on flats is so that the
• 1:29:43
  proletariat don't have anywhere to meet together and talk and
• 1:29:48
  get organised. It it's the whole idea of the
• 1:29:51
  architecture is fascist. It's, it's meant, it's meant to,
• 1:29:53
  it's meant to stop people unionizing.
• 1:29:55
  Oh my God, Because there's no work at this level.
• 1:29:58
  Yeah, there's nowhere for. Them to group.
• 1:30:00
  Yeah, exactly. It's it's designed.
• 1:30:02
  So that people can't talk to each other.
• 1:30:05
  So you went, You end. Up with.
• 1:30:07
  You end up with subcultures and you know, yeah, what happens?
• 1:30:12
  The Doctor. Comes in he.
• 1:30:13
  Brings them all. Together at the pool, and they
• 1:30:16
  bring down the society. The Doctor becomes the
• 1:30:19
  courtyard. Yeah, the doctor.
• 1:30:21
  Yeah, yeah. He brings everyone together and
• 1:30:23
  then they can actually form a proper society.
• 1:30:26
  And and that's, that's, you know, This is why I'm, you know,
• 1:30:29
  letting this one through. This is, this is Doctor Who
• 1:30:31
  that's really about something. And it's angry about not not
• 1:30:35
  just not just the 80s and Thatcher, but this, you know,
• 1:30:38
  these are, you know, these are projects dating back to the 60s.
• 1:30:41
  So it's it's angry with. Everything they've been left.
• 1:30:47
  Rob, as a writer, what would you have done?
• 1:30:50
  To because I can tell you're frustrated that they didn't
• 1:30:52
  bring it out properly. Oh no.
• 1:30:56
  No, it's as a writer, just, you know, just a couple of lines.
• 1:31:02
  All we have, all we have to do is say there was a war or, you
• 1:31:05
  know, explain a bit about the war.
• 1:31:06
  It's a little bit more just one line, one line and maybe and
• 1:31:09
  maybe have a line to say, well, you know, during the war, murder
• 1:31:12
  was punishable by death. So that's.
• 1:31:17
  Why they didn't so? Technically they didn't murder
• 1:31:19
  crack. Not just one line to explain why
• 1:31:22
  the parents put his brain in the basement.
• 1:31:24
  But again, to be you don't really need it.
• 1:31:26
  To be honest, if the production and the tone had all been kind
• 1:31:29
  of going in the same direction, then you you, you don't none of
• 1:31:33
  that would matter. But basically keep the script
• 1:31:35
  exactly as is and just and basically execute it the way the
• 1:31:40
  next year they executed the greatest show in the Galaxy.
• 1:31:43
  Yeah. Which was mint.
• 1:31:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:47
  My only other thing, but my only thing.
• 1:31:49
  I'm my only thing. But when Richard Breyers does
• 1:31:53
  become Bragnon, the thing I've never understood is why suddenly
• 1:31:56
  his uniform is silver and his moustache is different shape.
• 1:32:00
  You know, Main. Mainly, it's the moustache.
• 1:32:03
  So we know he's evil. At that point.
• 1:32:05
  But it's it goes from a hit. In the Tash it goes to full for
• 1:32:08
  a handlebar and I just yeah, I don't I don't quite get how Corp
• 1:32:13
  electroscopy does that to a man, but there you go.
• 1:32:18
  Well. In stones of blood.
• 1:32:23
  Go on. Well, how does Vivian Faye
• 1:32:25
  suddenly. Get decked up in silver makeup
• 1:32:28
  like as she kept that next to the sausage sandwiches or what?
• 1:32:31
  There's so many comparisons. With stones.
• 1:32:33
  Of blood. Have you watched that?
• 1:32:34
  Yeah. What is it?
• 1:32:35
  I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
• 1:32:38
  I bought a new. Projector for the bedroom.
• 1:32:40
  And I watched Stones of Blood on it the other night.
• 1:32:42
  I'm so sorry. Well, Toby.
• 1:32:45
  Paradise Towers. Well, Paradise Towers, of
• 1:32:49
  course. Famously, the you know, the
• 1:32:50
  writer was, as you say, quite surprised by by the the the the
• 1:32:55
  way that it's turned out and, you know, sort of was was, you
• 1:32:59
  know, felt they misjudged certain certain aspects of the
• 1:33:02
  casting. For example, you know, Pecks was
• 1:33:04
  written to be like the rock and out of the casting pool, they
• 1:33:08
  they pulled a Pebble in, in, in terms of how the character was
• 1:33:13
  conceived. You know, a lot of consternation
• 1:33:18
  about Richard Briars's performance as the under to the
• 1:33:20
  to the effect that I'm told that his performance in Torchwood was
• 1:33:26
  something he regarded as an apology to Doctor Who fans
• 1:33:29
  because he'd picked up on the fact that he he had been sort of
• 1:33:33
  ridiculed for his his efforts there.
• 1:33:38
  And it was, of course, famously the one story for the whole of
• 1:33:43
  the John Nathan Turner era that was allowed to get an absolute
• 1:33:46
  critical mauling in the pages of Doctor Who magazine.
• 1:33:50
  It was torn a new asshole by Richard Marsden.
• 1:33:54
  And you know, it's really bizarre to read because he
• 1:33:57
  thought we don't really do this with with Doctor Who.
• 1:34:00
  You know, it's pretty much. Toes, toes the party line.
• 1:34:03
  And I think, you know, it's, it's, it's seen as a, as, as, as
• 1:34:07
  a of a flawed production of a, of an interesting script For,
• 1:34:11
  for me, this is the story that I transcribed the whole of the
• 1:34:17
  script for and I wanted to make and I wanted to put on at
• 1:34:20
  school. It's weird because I, I, you
• 1:34:22
  know, I came into this saying, you know, this is my least
• 1:34:24
  favorite season. It's the one I was really angry
• 1:34:26
  through. Through this, I was absolutely
• 1:34:29
  inspired. And it reminds me a little bit
• 1:34:32
  to continue the comedy analogy that I had not intended to
• 1:34:35
  thread through all of this, but I'm going with it is sometimes
• 1:34:38
  you have an an idea comedy where you've got an act that is so
• 1:34:40
  sort of batshit crazy that 2 tables are looking at them in
• 1:34:45
  absolute absolutely mystified as to why everybody else in the
• 1:34:50
  room is pissing themselves. And they that to me as, as
• 1:34:55
  somebody goes to a lot of comedy just because that's where I'm
• 1:34:57
  working and, and I'm usually on is, is, is, is much is much more
• 1:35:02
  interesting than somebody that is just doing and everybody's
• 1:35:06
  sort of going ha, ha, ha to the idea.
• 1:35:08
  I so admire comedians that are brave enough to so commit to
• 1:35:12
  what they do that they know there's going to be some people
• 1:35:15
  that, that aren't buying into it, but they're true to
• 1:35:18
  themselves and they're not trying to please anybody.
• 1:35:20
  And I, I, I don't think I have that in me.
• 1:35:22
  I, I, I'm so, I, I've, you know, I'm so desperate to please.
• 1:35:26
  I hugely admire those people who are so true to themselves and
• 1:35:29
  they're their creativity and I think with what it is with
• 1:35:32
  Paradise, this is also the story I haven't watched for, I should
• 1:35:36
  think 2 decades, Joe, because I was saving it because I watched
• 1:35:40
  it so often. When it was on, I watched it
• 1:35:43
  every day and when each episode went out I then watched the two
• 1:35:47
  episodes every day and then the three.
• 1:35:50
  So I knew it word for word and I knew it so well and too, so even
• 1:35:55
  when it came out on DVD, I didn't watch it.
• 1:35:58
  I wasn't, I wasn't on the commentary because Mark Ayers
• 1:36:00
  had wanted to do it. He'd pitched for it.
• 1:36:02
  So I was like, OK, I would have done it.
• 1:36:04
  I'd watched it if I was doing the commentary.
• 1:36:05
  So I thought, well, no, maybe the world's trying to tell me
• 1:36:07
  something. I shouldn't watch it.
• 1:36:08
  So I was going to wait until I did it for my podcast.
• 1:36:12
  But I'm a professional and I watched it today.
• 1:36:15
  And part of me was going, all of that joy is going to vanish in
• 1:36:19
  the cold light of day because I'm going to be aware of of, you
• 1:36:22
  know, it's, it's staginess, it's production compromises, the fact
• 1:36:26
  that those performance styles, you know, they are, they are for
• 1:36:33
  a particular taste in a particular palette and, and
• 1:36:36
  embedded in a particular time. But what what I think what's
• 1:36:39
  raised, what's been raised brilliantly in, in, in this
• 1:36:41
  discussion is the fact that I think this script more than any,
• 1:36:45
  you know, Dragon fire could be improved if the sets were
• 1:36:48
  better. You could, you could get
• 1:36:51
  different performances, but I think they'd all be largely of
• 1:36:54
  the same sort of interpretation. You know, time and the Rani I
• 1:36:58
  think is, is more dictated to because of the dialogue of the
• 1:37:01
  style of the script. It could only ever be played
• 1:37:03
  that way. What's fascinating, I think
• 1:37:05
  Delta and the banner men is, is is probably judged and played
• 1:37:08
  the way that it, it should be. And that's why it's the way that
• 1:37:11
  is, I think Paradise Towers, as we've suggested, and this is,
• 1:37:15
  I'm not making this comparison lightly, like a Shakespeare
• 1:37:19
  play. You could, you could completely
• 1:37:21
  change the way that you do it, but it would still bring out
• 1:37:25
  everything in the script, but in different ways.
• 1:37:27
  I think Rob's comment on the casting of the Kangs, for
• 1:37:30
  example, would would, would still be true to what it's
• 1:37:33
  doing, but give it a different vibe.
• 1:37:34
  Mikey's idea about actually doing it on location, I think
• 1:37:37
  you'd still get a legitimate production of this script, but
• 1:37:40
  would open up all sorts of different elements.
• 1:37:42
  Not to take away from the way that they do it here, but to
• 1:37:44
  open. And that to me is the sign of a
• 1:37:46
  script that is ambitious, that works on its own terms.
• 1:37:49
  And it gives, it gives you as a creative, something to grasp
• 1:37:52
  onto when you're making it. And they made the decisions they
• 1:37:55
  made. Sometimes they, I think they,
• 1:37:57
  they didn't have much choice. They, they struggled to find an
• 1:38:00
  actor that fitted Steven Wyatt's image of Pex.
• 1:38:03
  And I actually think Howard Cook on his own terms, gives a really
• 1:38:06
  good performance. I like the gusto that he gives
• 1:38:08
  it. And I, I was really upset when
• 1:38:10
  Pex died. I, I was, I thought that was
• 1:38:12
  really, really sad. I, I actually don't mind the
• 1:38:16
  Kang's performances, but but now that this spectre of a
• 1:38:19
  completely different style is hanging over it, I can see how
• 1:38:21
  it would have been much, much better.
• 1:38:23
  I and and and, and and an example, I, I love Clive
• 1:38:31
  Merrison full stop. I think he's, he's he's so droll
• 1:38:34
  and funny as the deputy chief. But the other actors that they
• 1:38:37
  considered, one was Edward Hardwick who turned it down and
• 1:38:40
  one was Philip Jackson. And I could see either of those
• 1:38:43
  actors giving a completely different performance to
• 1:38:45
  Merrison. Each of them would have been
• 1:38:46
  brilliant. Jackson in particular I think
• 1:38:48
  would have been droll and hangdog and probably a bit
• 1:38:51
  sunken eyed and tired and and they would have been equally
• 1:38:56
  good interpretations of a really nice choice part that you get a
• 1:38:59
  good actor in and they and I think Clive Merrison is pitch
• 1:39:03
  perfect. I think he's fabulous funny,
• 1:39:05
  isn't he? And.
• 1:39:07
  And I'm talking. Against myself because you know,
• 1:39:09
  I always think of myself as the guy that likes the traditional,
• 1:39:12
  the gothic horror, the explosions and aliens and this
• 1:39:15
  sort of thing. But to me, Doctor Who is the
• 1:39:18
  thing where you can have two old ladies slippers the corpse of of
• 1:39:23
  an old lady with slippers was on sticking out the back of a
• 1:39:26
  cleaning machine being dumped into in a cellar.
• 1:39:28
  That is doctor have ever in the annals of entertainment has ever
• 1:39:34
  and I can't believe I'm saying this sentence, but isn't it
• 1:39:37
  glorious that it's Doctor Who that conjures it has ever
• 1:39:40
  cannibalism been so badly disguised as in this story?
• 1:39:45
  What's a delicious name? And and it knows it's not
• 1:39:49
  disguising it and it and it obviously has limitations, you
• 1:39:52
  know, because it's basically saying, you know, if you
• 1:39:56
  scrutinize the world too much, it doesn't make sense.
• 1:39:59
  But that is sort of the whole point.
• 1:40:00
  I love the 202,000 AD and actually I got Eagle myself, My
• 1:40:04
  friend Ollie got 2000 AD. So I was aware of it and in a
• 1:40:07
  way I sort of liked it more because it was more grown up and
• 1:40:10
  dirty and but I never thought to get it myself because it was
• 1:40:12
  almost like I'm not cool enough for that.
• 1:40:14
  And Doctor Who is 2000 ADI think is a legitimate.
• 1:40:20
  You know, way, way of doing it. And I think that the idea of
• 1:40:23
  pitching something in in that area is a is a sound one with
• 1:40:26
  with what Doctor Who does. But I think to create, I think
• 1:40:32
  to create a world and say doctor and Mikey said it's about types.
• 1:40:36
  You know, Robert Holmes wrote types.
• 1:40:38
  You know that they're all types in talents or being a type
• 1:40:41
  doesn't stop you being and I'm not saying that Mikey was saying
• 1:40:44
  this. I like doctor, the fact that
• 1:40:45
  Doctor Who can do types because other dramas casualty in the
• 1:40:48
  bill can't really they can't really get away with it.
• 1:40:50
  But when you're writing a type, it means that that an actor can
• 1:40:54
  have great fun with it. But that doesn't mean that what
• 1:40:56
  they do isn't truthful. And so long as you are being
• 1:40:58
  truthful, even if it is in a grand grotesque large
• 1:41:02
  performance, so long as there is truth to it, it doesn't matter
• 1:41:05
  if if if it's dressed flamboyantly, if you like and
• 1:41:09
  casting Richard Bryers, Doctor Who can do this.
• 1:41:12
  Well, loads of other programs can't.
• 1:41:14
  Yes, Doctor Who can do necromancers and you know, space
• 1:41:20
  generals and and dictators, but it can also do and what we get
• 1:41:24
  here is officious little Hitler's.
• 1:41:26
  And who were you going to get to play an officious little jobs
• 1:41:29
  worth? It's Richard Bryers.
• 1:41:30
  How do you make him a little Hitler?
• 1:41:32
  You dress him. You make him look like Hitler in
• 1:41:35
  so many other programs. That would be terribly bad
• 1:41:37
  taste, but it absolutely works within the world that has been
• 1:41:41
  created because it is not a real world, but it is truthful within
• 1:41:45
  itself. And you have and it relies on a
• 1:41:48
  certain amount of good faith. Just as the batshit comic who's
• 1:41:51
  standing on his head over a goldfish bowl.
• 1:41:53
  You, if you don't want to be the table staring at going, well,
• 1:41:56
  this is shit. You have to go and meet it a
• 1:41:58
  little bit. And if you don't, OK, fine, it's
• 1:42:00
  not going to be for you, but you'll lose out because it's
• 1:42:03
  saying to you, look, this might be, this might be a challenge to
• 1:42:06
  your sensibilities, to what you might expect, but we've created,
• 1:42:08
  created a thing here. We're not just being, it's not
• 1:42:10
  just daft for darkness's sake. We've created a thing here, come
• 1:42:13
  into this world and explore it with us.
• 1:42:15
  And it's quite fun. And there will be things that
• 1:42:18
  we're asking you to swallow, like the fact that you've got 2
• 1:42:21
  old ladies giving somebody who, who somehow have all the
• 1:42:23
  ingredients for cakes and biscuits, but they need to eat
• 1:42:26
  people. You know, that was the one thing
• 1:42:29
  that Stephen. Wyatt said he that was bang on
• 1:42:32
  was Tilda and Tabby. He said that couldn't have been
• 1:42:34
  better. Well then, they are glorious and
• 1:42:36
  in. Fact there's.
• 1:42:37
  I love the bit where she says something.
• 1:42:38
  You, you. Brenda Bruce does a bit where
• 1:42:40
  she goes. And.
• 1:42:44
  They're and and they're great, but I but I think the caretakers
• 1:42:47
  are great. I think the rule book scene that
• 1:42:49
  to me is Doctor Who and and particularly if you think about
• 1:42:52
  the 70s and 80s where a lot of what sort of beset this country
• 1:42:56
  was people, you know, is, is and, and we and we and we have
• 1:42:59
  annoying officials got shot through Doctor.
• 1:43:02
  That's very BBC that the BBC has a certain way of doing things.
• 1:43:05
  If ever you have to deal with, you know, certain bodies in this
• 1:43:10
  this country where you meet somebody goes, well, I'm afraid
• 1:43:13
  we can only do that. Certainly.
• 1:43:14
  Oh, yeah. And it's a very British thing.
• 1:43:17
  And the fact that they make that the enemy.
• 1:43:19
  But also then and perfect for Sylvester Mccoys, Doctor Who is
• 1:43:23
  the sort of clownish rule breaker to to that that scene
• 1:43:27
  where he uses the rule book against them to me is absolute
• 1:43:31
  pitch perfect Doctor Who and they do it so brilliantly.
• 1:43:34
  Even better is the bit where him and.
• 1:43:36
  Briars. And it starts off with Briars
• 1:43:39
  interrogating McCoy, and it ends with McCoy interrogating Briars.
• 1:43:43
  Yeah, that is, that is absolutely.
• 1:43:45
  Fantastic. I, I understand people who don't
• 1:43:48
  like what briars is and, and the fact when he turns silver in his
• 1:43:51
  moustache grows like, yes, that is, that is nothing but but
• 1:43:55
  Breyers does the only thing you can do there is that he commits
• 1:43:58
  to it. And but I but you know, there's
• 1:44:02
  a lot I can totally, this is one of those ones where I totally
• 1:44:06
  get anybody that could do a list of things that they don't like
• 1:44:10
  about this. And I, I would, I would, I would
• 1:44:12
  be sympathetic to it, but for some reason it caught me at a
• 1:44:16
  time when I was young and I was angry and I wanted Doctor Who to
• 1:44:19
  be a particular way. It gave me a totally different
• 1:44:22
  Doctor Who and I absolutely gobbled it up and I was enthused
• 1:44:27
  and I was excited and I, you know, I memorized every, every
• 1:44:34
  line of it. I mean, you know, Mel's, Mel's
• 1:44:36
  determination to get to the pool while all this terrifying stuff
• 1:44:39
  is happening around her. You know how you, you have to
• 1:44:42
  sort of go with it and go. But the, the rules, this is the,
• 1:44:45
  these are the rules of this particular story.
• 1:44:48
  There is nothing outside here. In fact, you know, I, I need
• 1:44:51
  even less of that. You know, what was happening in
• 1:44:53
  the war, Miracle City and all that sort of thing.
• 1:44:55
  It's, it's, it's, it's a world of its own creation.
• 1:44:58
  There's nothing out. I don't care about what goes out
• 1:45:00
  on outside Paradise Towers. It's, it's, it's, it's an
• 1:45:03
  adventure within this bespoke world for this particular.
• 1:45:06
  And that's, and you know, Doctor would be boring if it was all
• 1:45:09
  the same. And it's the only show where you
• 1:45:11
  can cross into a different genre and go.
• 1:45:14
  But this week, you know, yeah, you may have, you may have had
• 1:45:17
  the Sea Devils not long ago, and now you've got Carnival of
• 1:45:19
  Monsters, you know, and that's the same here.
• 1:45:21
  You may have had Revelation of the Daleks, not longer.
• 1:45:24
  But now we're in this, you know, crazy, crazy place where the
• 1:45:28
  rules are different and there's fun to be had, but also things
• 1:45:33
  to be said. It I forgive anything if it, you
• 1:45:37
  know, there are certain elements of the plot that don't quite
• 1:45:39
  work or hold together or whatever, but that's because he
• 1:45:42
  has created something that it has subtext and it has metaphor
• 1:45:45
  and it's trying to represent something.
• 1:45:47
  And I will forgive you for your story or the OR the logic or the
• 1:45:51
  outer or the outer logic not quite working.
• 1:45:55
  If you've committed yourself to be saying something with the
• 1:45:58
  drama and with the story that you're telling.
• 1:46:00
  I would much rather have that than something that just held
• 1:46:04
  together but was telling another alien invasion story.
• 1:46:07
  Much as I I love those that the ambition to say to do something
• 1:46:12
  beyond what we see on the surface, I think Doctor Who is a
• 1:46:15
  great vehicle for that. And so writers that attempt to
• 1:46:18
  do that, I would I would always be, you know, I would always
• 1:46:21
  give them the benefit of the doubt.
• 1:46:23
  So I will absolutely keep and champion Paradise Towers.
• 1:46:30
  Well, Sir, really. Matter what I say.
• 1:46:32
  Anymore because it's going through to round two, because
• 1:46:34
  three people love it. But I will say there are two
• 1:46:37
  moments in this that sum up Doctor Who so beautifully for
• 1:46:40
  me. And one of them is when we're in
• 1:46:43
  this sort of scary moment where the poor female companion is
• 1:46:46
  being tied up by two cannibals and threatened with pitch
• 1:46:49
  pitchforks. And you know, there's she's
• 1:46:51
  going to be cooked and eaten. And that's sort of a scary
• 1:46:53
  situation. And then someone comes up with
• 1:46:56
  the line, see if you can spot the basil.
• 1:46:58
  And it just makes me how. And that's Doctor Who for me.
• 1:47:02
  It makes me scared and it makes me laugh.
• 1:47:04
  And somehow that makes the scares OK, I love I absolutely
• 1:47:08
  love the scripts of this. But the other is this fabulous
• 1:47:11
  pool that they're talking about throughout the whole thing is
• 1:47:14
  we'll meet at the pool. All right is the most look at
• 1:47:17
  it. It's fantastic.
• 1:47:18
  It's good. It's the most fucking drab
• 1:47:21
  looking pool you've. Ever seen in your life that?
• 1:47:25
  Is Doctor Who for you? You know, they've they've,
• 1:47:27
  they've got big ideas for pool at the top of the towers and it
• 1:47:30
  looks like a puddle, doesn't it? I mean, it's just terrible.
• 1:47:34
  But don't you think as well, you know, like Toby?
• 1:47:35
  'S description, which I like off you know, it's it's not a real
• 1:47:39
  world, but it's a world that's consistent within its own rules,
• 1:47:43
  so everything looks terrible. Is that what you're?
• 1:47:45
  Saying no, I actually think that.
• 1:47:47
  That describes Roald Dahl stories because he sets up a
• 1:47:52
  world that you live in and you just accept.
• 1:47:55
  It's very rolled out. It's very rolled out.
• 1:47:57
  It's. Gracious.
• 1:47:58
  And the humor, yeah. But especially if you think
• 1:48:00
  about those two you. Know those two cannibal women?
• 1:48:03
  You would. That is exactly the sort of
• 1:48:04
  thing you would expect in a book like The Witches or whatever.
• 1:48:07
  And and wouldn't even bat an eyelid, that kind of thing.
• 1:48:11
  So I think it comes from that. It comes from that world.
• 1:48:14
  I think this is really good Doctor Who, he said.
• 1:48:17
  I called them the resi as he goes they.
• 1:48:18
  Were absolutely lesbian as he goes.
• 1:48:20
  But John Nathan Turner told me I couldn't say it, you know, it
• 1:48:23
  was appalled by that. But actually my three reasons
• 1:48:25
  and I'll be quick, are three characters and they're all
• 1:48:28
  caretakers. And it's just a small example of
• 1:48:30
  the levels that this story is working on.
• 1:48:33
  I really love the. Young caretaker.
• 1:48:35
  That you meet in the first episode, I knew you'd love you.
• 1:48:38
  I was just because he's pretty. I knew that Joe would.
• 1:48:42
  Lust after the young, gorgeous What's that actor called Toby?
• 1:48:46
  He's called Joe. He's called Joseph.
• 1:48:48
  Joseph Young, much prettier Joe than me.
• 1:48:51
  Anyway, but this is a character who's scared of his own shower.
• 1:48:54
  Shadow kind of wants reassurance.
• 1:48:56
  He keeps checking in with his boss and he's stuck in this
• 1:48:59
  world of murder, survival and society spiraling out of
• 1:49:03
  control. And I really like the fact that
• 1:49:05
  you see that shade of the society that someone actually a
• 1:49:09
  bit timid around it. Obviously you've got the chief
• 1:49:12
  caretaker as well, and he is somebody who puts across that he
• 1:49:15
  is somebody has figured out this sort of crazy world taking
• 1:49:18
  control of it. But actually underneath it all,
• 1:49:21
  he's a panicked, nasty, manipulative puppet.
• 1:49:25
  And you see all of that sort of spiraling and out of control as
• 1:49:28
  the story goes along and he realizes he's not in control at
• 1:49:31
  all. And I just adore the deputy
• 1:49:34
  chief caretaker. All of my heart actually.
• 1:49:39
  Report from floor 109. Two of the oldsters have fallen
• 1:49:43
  down the standard X12 waste disposal unit.
• 1:49:46
  I mean, just every line. But he's a complete sell out of
• 1:49:49
  a character but incapable of independent thought, devoted to
• 1:49:53
  the rule book and utterly in love with his boss.
• 1:49:57
  And oh, look, Yeah. Well, for me, I love.
• 1:50:00
  Any dish that you can put, just put a fried egg on.
• 1:50:02
  It improves it for me. Put Clive Merison in something
• 1:50:06
  and absolutely. Absolutely the way he goes.
• 1:50:11
  Hey Jiffy, you know he just loves him, doesn't he?
• 1:50:14
  But, and that is just one tiny section of this script.
• 1:50:18
  And all of those 3 characters are part of that tiny subsection
• 1:50:21
  of this script. And there's lots of it happening
• 1:50:23
  with the with the Rezis, with the Kangs, with pecs.
• 1:50:28
  I just think it's a it is a near perfect script for me
• 1:50:31
  structurally. I think it hands together
• 1:50:33
  extremely well. I do think there are production
• 1:50:36
  issues. I I think Nick Malik gets worse
• 1:50:39
  as he goes along rather than better because I really don't
• 1:50:42
  rate cursor Fenrick. Yeah, I think I would have liked
• 1:50:46
  this script to have been handled by another producer.
• 1:50:51
  And I wouldn't often say that about scripts in J and TS time,
• 1:50:55
  but it there's just so much going on the page for this and
• 1:50:58
  it's just delirious fun to watch.
• 1:51:00
  So of course Paradise Fratals goes through to We haven't.
• 1:51:04
  We haven't mentioned the language.
• 1:51:05
  The language that the Kangs are given, I think is, is, is
• 1:51:08
  superb. I don't always like it when when
• 1:51:10
  language gets messed about within order to make something
• 1:51:12
  seem futuristic, but it's it's, it's consistent within it's and
• 1:51:16
  there's a there's a reality to why it has it has it has sort of
• 1:51:20
  metamorphosed that way. And also that great wheeze.
• 1:51:22
  It's obvious you've got the red, the yellow and the blue Kangs.
• 1:51:25
  You know, in, in this country, the political parties are red,
• 1:51:28
  yellow and blue and, and, and, and they are basically
• 1:51:32
  squabbling children playing silly games that actually have
• 1:51:36
  deadly consequences. And it's that kind of, you know,
• 1:51:40
  simple but actually extremely thoughtful metaphor that I that
• 1:51:44
  I think shows that it it has ambition to do more than than,
• 1:51:48
  you know, is on the surface. Yeah.
• 1:51:50
  So you're in one of those unfortunate situations.
• 1:51:52
  Where you forget that not everybody in your life is a
• 1:51:54
  Doctor Who fan and when you quote lines of them, they don't
• 1:51:57
  have a clue what you're talking about.
• 1:51:58
  We had a new star start last week.
• 1:52:00
  It's Christmas time, of course, the Christmas temps are coming
• 1:52:02
  in and two people are being introduced to each other.
• 1:52:04
  And I went, He wants to how you do?
• 1:52:09
  And they just looked at me as if I was mad and I just wanted the
• 1:52:13
  ground to swallow me out. It's interesting to note though,
• 1:52:15
  you know that. Grange Hill thing is, I'm going
• 1:52:17
  to keep coming back to because it's such a great observation,
• 1:52:19
  but we we had that conversation about Stephanie Fehman in in
• 1:52:23
  Dragon Fire not doing a a regional accent because you
• 1:52:26
  don't have many regional accents in Doctor Who even at this
• 1:52:29
  period, even this late in its in its existence.
• 1:52:33
  And Catherine Cusack, who plays the blue Kang leader in in real
• 1:52:37
  life has a beautiful Irish accent, but they've clearly got
• 1:52:40
  well, no, you can you can do cockney because the others are
• 1:52:43
  doing RP, but but an Irish accent that would that would
• 1:52:46
  that would say too much, you know, and and it's interesting
• 1:52:48
  what the gradations are of what, where you're allowed your accent
• 1:52:52
  to be how, how far you're allowed to go away from RP and
• 1:52:55
  Cockney. Yeah, cockney is not too far
• 1:52:57
  away from RP. So it's a that's that suggests
• 1:52:59
  slum, but Irish. No, absolutely no way that
• 1:53:02
  would. We don't have.
• 1:53:03
  There won't be Irish people in the future, or science fiction.
• 1:53:06
  You know, that's a bit of a step too.
• 1:53:08
  Far if you ask me, Toby, we have two Stone Cold Classics left for
• 1:53:14
  you to choose from. Off you go.
• 1:53:18
  Well. I'd like you all to pack a very
• 1:53:21
  small suitcase and come on holiday with me.
• 1:53:25
  We are going to Shangri-La in Wales, in Wales, in Wales,
• 1:53:30
  England and we're travelling by bus and it's it's a story.
• 1:53:38
  I remember watching the first episode and being quite
• 1:53:41
  disappointed with it. It didn't quite hang together
• 1:53:44
  for me. I thought it was a bit, it was a
• 1:53:46
  bit sort of sloppy and all over the place.
• 1:53:48
  But it is the story now that I think of the four holds together
• 1:53:57
  it's consistency of what is actually a period of the show
• 1:54:01
  where consistency is not necessarily what it's aiming for
• 1:54:04
  because it has this, you know, avant-garde waywardness, which
• 1:54:07
  is part of its appeal. But it manages to package it in
• 1:54:10
  a way where I think everything everything is working in for
• 1:54:16
  the. For the one that's got all the.
• 1:54:17
  Songs in it, everything is in harmony in a way.
• 1:54:21
  And I also think it suits Sylvester Mccoy's doctor
• 1:54:25
  probably the best I think. I think, I think Paradise Tower
• 1:54:27
  suits the Doctor. I don't think he's great in I I
• 1:54:32
  think he takes a while to find his feet.
• 1:54:35
  He's got many virtues as a performer.
• 1:54:37
  He's a brilliant natural clown. He's got that wonderful
• 1:54:41
  melancholy bird like face that can do sort of introspection and
• 1:54:46
  innate sadness very, very well. I think he does struggle with
• 1:54:50
  some of the big dramatic scenes and I think unforgivably later
• 1:54:54
  on once he realizes he can play the part.
• 1:54:56
  He's not on top of his lines enough for a leading man in a
• 1:54:58
  major television program. And I but I think in this he has
• 1:55:05
  some glorious moments, the look of one of his greatest moments,
• 1:55:11
  because he's a doctor with many, many great moments, which makes
• 1:55:13
  the bits where he's not on song all the more frustrating for me
• 1:55:16
  actually, because we, I knew him as an actor before he was cast
• 1:55:20
  as Doctor Who. I'd seen him in Shakespeare at
• 1:55:21
  Ludlow Castle and, and we knew him, of course, from from the
• 1:55:24
  Omen and stuff. And he to me was wow, they've
• 1:55:26
  cast this guy. He's going to be absolutely
• 1:55:28
  brilliant because he has that, you know, madcap thing about
• 1:55:35
  him. But, but, and, and that's sort
• 1:55:38
  of uniqueness, the, the look on his face when Ray asks him to
• 1:55:43
  dance, that whole bit where she's really sad and he tries,
• 1:55:47
  he tries to comfort her, even though the doctor's not really
• 1:55:50
  good at all of that sort of stuff, which I, I love it.
• 1:55:53
  I love the doctor not being across the language of love
• 1:55:55
  because I think that that makes a good hero for young kids who
• 1:55:59
  are young teenagers who are uncertain about sort of that
• 1:56:01
  sort of thing. I, I, I, I think it's more
• 1:56:03
  identifiable than having a Doctor Who is in love.
• 1:56:05
  But that's a conversation for another day, which I will
• 1:56:08
  probably issue with repeats with expletives, but let's not get
• 1:56:12
  into that right now. I love my doctor awkward in
• 1:56:16
  love. And I love the fact that his
• 1:56:17
  instinct is to be nice to, to, to Ray.
• 1:56:20
  And then when she sort of calls him on it and says, yes, OK, I
• 1:56:25
  will dance. He looks absolutely terrified.
• 1:56:27
  That is beautiful, beautiful Doctor Who to me.
• 1:56:31
  And it and it's the it's the doctor being kind, even though
• 1:56:34
  that kindness makes him uncomfortable because he's
• 1:56:37
  because he's a batshit alien. I I love the I love the Kev
• 1:56:41
  McCulloch score for this. I love invoking Dick Barton.
• 1:56:44
  I love the fact that the music is actually part of it because
• 1:56:47
  because Billy is in the band and all of that.
• 1:56:49
  And that helps to evoke the 1950s.
• 1:56:51
  I love what they do with this period where they go, well,
• 1:56:53
  yeah, let's do history, but let's do the 50s and the 60s.
• 1:56:56
  So it's not that far away. And and and and and but and
• 1:57:01
  actually the 60s is in the lifetime of the show as well.
• 1:57:03
  So suddenly going oh, those those times are suddenly I'm
• 1:57:06
  being nostalgic about and that they're quite easy to do.
• 1:57:09
  I I think Doctor Who at Butlins is exactly what Doctor Who
• 1:57:14
  should be doing. Doctor I was when I was re
• 1:57:17
  watching it, the other having you go right, we need to cast
• 1:57:21
  actors who look like they're from the 50s.
• 1:57:22
  So let's get the guy from the Flying Pickets because he's got
• 1:57:25
  big sideburns. So we'll have him, he can sing
• 1:57:27
  as well, but we won't even get him to sing.
• 1:57:29
  But it just helps with the sort of musical vibe.
• 1:57:31
  But he's quite a political guy. Brian Hibbard, The Flying
• 1:57:33
  Pickets were a political band. So he's going to play him as a
• 1:57:36
  South African because he's playing a mercenary and that's a
• 1:57:38
  comment on what was going on in South Africa in the 1980s.
• 1:57:41
  So suddenly there's these sort of individual talents, but all
• 1:57:44
  working. They're all bringing what they
• 1:57:46
  bring to it, to it to give it a kind of batshit Dr. to who vibe.
• 1:57:51
  And, and, and there's the scene where, yeah, that the music's
• 1:57:54
  playing and he and that and that and we're getting snapshots of
• 1:57:58
  everybody settling into their God awful chalets.
• 1:58:01
  I mean, I love that. And I do quite like that about
• 1:58:03
  the fact that, you know, you look at the foods that's brought
• 1:58:06
  round on the, on, on the sort of, you know, the, the, the,
• 1:58:10
  the, all the plates are sort of stacked in a thing and everyone
• 1:58:12
  and it's, you know, everyone's got sort of mash and gravy,
• 1:58:14
  which is probably lukewarm and overcooked vegetables.
• 1:58:17
  You know, God, this is how we used to eat.
• 1:58:19
  This is what we, we used to do on holiday, on holiday, we used
• 1:58:23
  to travel to, to stay in, in this.
• 1:58:28
  I could feel the cold turning on the tap and the water that you
• 1:58:32
  would wash your face in would be absolutely freezing.
• 1:58:34
  And we used to do that And I could and the and the, and the
• 1:58:37
  sort of lack of robustness about the bed and the bedside tables
• 1:58:40
  and the sheets, which would be cold and go and you go.
• 1:58:43
  We used to do it when we blaster smiles on our face and go, but
• 1:58:46
  we're going to have fun. And that to me is what sort of
• 1:58:49
  Britain has about it. And Doctor Who is very British.
• 1:58:52
  So it's, it's this sort of, we have nostalgia for stuff that
• 1:58:56
  was awful and yet we kind of make a good fist of it.
• 1:59:00
  And I like that about us. And Delta, the Bannerman seems
• 1:59:04
  to be sort of all part of that, this sort of glorious sort of
• 1:59:07
  kitsch that it has, but not sort of winking, sort of it's it's
• 1:59:12
  it's a sort of celebration of that spirit, which is evoked by
• 1:59:16
  my favorite character in it who isn't probably not one you
• 1:59:19
  expect. Yeah.
• 1:59:20
  Don Henderson's brilliant as the villain and and, and Ken Dodd,
• 1:59:27
  you know, freed of the shackles of of of context as a good one.
• 1:59:30
  But for me, Richard Davis as Mr. Burton, if you want a Welsh
• 1:59:34
  actor, you had to get Richard Davis.
• 1:59:36
  That was Doctor Who has always done that.
• 1:59:38
  We were in Scotland. We need Angus Lenny.
• 1:59:40
  You know, there's something very comforting about that.
• 1:59:42
  But he and so he comes with that sort of identity about him, but
• 1:59:45
  he's he, he's one of those actors.
• 1:59:48
  He's funny, he's naturally funny.
• 1:59:50
  He's a witty performer, but and it's a slightly larger than
• 1:59:54
  knife character, but he is utterly believable.
• 1:59:58
  It is a totally truthful performance.
• 2:00:00
  But with that sort of that, that character actors dressing that
• 2:00:04
  we that we've always done so well.
• 2:00:06
  In our in our entertainment in this country and, and, and in
• 2:00:11
  our cultural landscape. And then, and because Doctor Who
• 2:00:15
  is so good at going, we're going to get you in to do the thing
• 2:00:17
  that you usually do, but we're also going to let you let your
• 2:00:20
  hair down and, and do stuff that you're perfectly capable of that
• 2:00:24
  you probably don't get to do that often.
• 2:00:25
  And the scene makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end
• 2:00:28
  when Gavroc's going to kill Mel after the bus has blown up and
• 2:00:32
  he bravely comes and goes stop. And you keep her alone and.
• 2:00:35
  He plays it absolutely. Absolutely truthfully.
• 2:00:37
  And it's a, he's a supporting character who has his moment of
• 2:00:40
  being and he's the camp guy, but he's the guy that he's got a
• 2:00:43
  position of responsibility and he takes that responsibility
• 2:00:47
  very, very seriously. And so he's brave and we find
• 2:00:50
  out that he's fought in the war. And I think that's really
• 2:00:52
  interesting because we so often dismiss older people and go,
• 2:00:56
  well, you're just a, you're just an old bloke.
• 2:00:58
  Well, actually he was our bloke who not that long ago was a
• 2:01:00
  young man who was fighting for his life and, and, and, and his
• 2:01:03
  and, and I love that little scene he has with Vinny, who's
• 2:01:06
  the sort of funny guy who's who's just there to sing and,
• 2:01:10
  and he sings this Vinny and he's got this lovely voice.
• 2:01:12
  And then then when he talks, he's he's very well, he's the
• 2:01:14
  major and he's not done talking to Kobe.
• 2:01:17
  Thank you, Vinny, but. You will all have to go and then
• 2:01:21
  and then when the bus pulls. Out it is a nice piece of
• 2:01:23
  direction that they go well alright Vinny, you're the you're
• 2:01:26
  the actor in this so all the extras are on the bus, but you
• 2:01:28
  you run after the bus and jump on late and it's just nice
• 2:01:30
  little thoughtful touches like that.
• 2:01:32
  It's, it's got loads of, you know, fun, fun characters in it.
• 2:01:37
  And, and I think it just has I, I, you know, I get that, that
• 2:01:41
  there are aspects of it that don't quite work.
• 2:01:43
  I mean, but, but then again, you know, you're mixing genocide
• 2:01:46
  with genocide with Butlins and, and rock'n'roll.
• 2:01:49
  And then Hugh, Hugh Lloyd comes into it and, and they don't
• 2:01:53
  explain why he seems to know all this stuff.
• 2:01:56
  So I know there's loads of theories about Gurunwi now.
• 2:01:58
  And I love the fact that they do that and that he just takes it
• 2:02:01
  all in his stride. And I love the bit where he
• 2:02:02
  decides, Oh well, for this scene, I'll just be really into
• 2:02:04
  my book and I won't talk to anybody.
• 2:02:06
  And it's lovely bits like that. And the fact that the, and
• 2:02:08
  Sylvester McCoy is very good at that is that having little
• 2:02:11
  moments with actors where they work out a little bit where, and
• 2:02:14
  it's a respectful thing that goes on there.
• 2:02:16
  And I, I enjoy that. I enjoy the fact that Gurunwi is
• 2:02:18
  kind of like, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm honest.
• 2:02:21
  I know what's going on. I, I, but I the bit where they
• 2:02:25
  break all that honey upsets me because that's a lovely.
• 2:02:28
  I don't like waste. I don't like waste.
• 2:02:31
  And if and if I'd got honey in jars that I'd, that I'd, that
• 2:02:34
  I'd produced in 1932, I'd be like, well, I'm stowing some of
• 2:02:38
  these. You can have the stuff from
• 2:02:39
  1981, but I'm taking some of this, this really good stuff out
• 2:02:42
  of here before you drop it on some space fascists.
• 2:02:47
  And I think the opening battle is, is really nicely handled.
• 2:02:49
  That feels like you're doing a different kind of story.
• 2:02:52
  I, I think, I think the confrontation of Gavrock is, is
• 2:02:54
  very good, but largely for, you know, because they've gone.
• 2:02:56
  Let's give Don Henderson some manky hands and and Don
• 2:03:00
  Henderson's gone. Why don't I eat a dead egg?
• 2:03:03
  And, and I revolting it. It is revolting, but I think I
• 2:03:09
  think it's true to itself. It it is vicious in the sense
• 2:03:14
  that it's, it's not trading on what it thought Doctor Who does.
• 2:03:19
  It's going, I think Doctor Who could do this and get away with
• 2:03:22
  it unless it's probably got one, a couple too many characters in
• 2:03:25
  it. I don't think Stubby Kay and
• 2:03:28
  Morgan dear particularly need to be in it, lovely though it is to
• 2:03:30
  have Stubby Kay and Doctor, even though I didn't know who he was
• 2:03:33
  when I was younger. So it's it's a it's an example
• 2:03:35
  of John Nathan Turner going let's put the money on screen
• 2:03:38
  and you go, yeah, but, but, but that you're using the decimal
• 2:03:41
  system here because I'm not sure.
• 2:03:45
  But but it's, it's I think it makes a virtue of the fact that
• 2:03:50
  it's all on on location. I love Murray the bus driver as
• 2:03:55
  well. Johnny Dennis, I think is
• 2:03:56
  gorgeous. I think it's tonally slightly
• 2:03:59
  Askew that they all get killed, especially as the explosion on
• 2:04:02
  the bus is pretty poor and you go, oh, is that is that blown
• 2:04:05
  up? Oh, OK.
• 2:04:06
  I think that's a that's rescued because of the scene immediately
• 2:04:09
  after it. And then when everybody and then
• 2:04:11
  when everybody else arrives and it's about and they start
• 2:04:14
  shooting at them and they're in the sales.
• 2:04:15
  Ah, it's, it's, I mean, it's terrific.
• 2:04:17
  I love. I love all of that.
• 2:04:18
  So it's, I think, I think it's generally pretty well balanced,
• 2:04:22
  but it's, it's, it's not, it's not an easy balance, I don't
• 2:04:26
  think. So I think it's more an
• 2:04:27
  achievement in that sense because it's got, it's pulling
• 2:04:30
  in a lot of different directions.
• 2:04:32
  It's meaning to it's not made it easy, but I think that the
• 2:04:37
  rewards therefore are a little bit greater.
• 2:04:39
  And I think watch today, by the way, I think the three episode
• 2:04:42
  structure is lovely. And I think that's one of the
• 2:04:45
  the the the great successes of the McCoy era is those stories
• 2:04:48
  that are three episodes, I think really, really fit together
• 2:04:51
  very, very nicely. I think it's I think I could put
• 2:04:54
  on Delta and the bannerman anytime and just go I'm going to
• 2:04:57
  have a whale of a time. It exists, it works, and the
• 2:05:01
  pieces all sort of work together.
• 2:05:02
  Even the fact that Belinda Maine is shit kind of works if you
• 2:05:07
  were going to have anybody to be sort of a bit wooden and
• 2:05:09
  perfect. And I love the fact that when
• 2:05:11
  Billy goes, let's fly this baby out of here and as you go, she's
• 2:05:14
  going to fucking hate him. Stop thinking.
• 2:05:18
  About, but she she. Needs someone to screw but then
• 2:05:20
  again when they have a baby who's going to I I I don't want
• 2:05:23
  to know how how the shit running yeah and by the.
• 2:05:27
  Way if you get on a party. Bus that's going on a holiday
• 2:05:29
  and you're on the run for your life and you're the last of your
• 2:05:31
  kind and somebody says are you from the bloody Bart Don't say
• 2:05:34
  out loud. No, actually I'm a shimmering
• 2:05:36
  I'm you know but again within the world that it is in it all I
• 2:05:42
  just I think it's a lovely AI think it's a it's it's fun, but
• 2:05:47
  it's also got the requisite amount of action and shoot John
• 2:05:50
  Henderson so good as the villain it it just all fits together.
• 2:05:53
  It's got everything you need from Doctor Who doesn't all
• 2:05:56
  quite work. Some of it's some of it is a, is
• 2:05:59
  a yeah, some of it is slightly flawed, but I, I, I don't think
• 2:06:04
  it matters. In fact, I think it's one of the
• 2:06:06
  rare occasions where the things that don't quite work actually
• 2:06:09
  add to its charm. And I, I resist that Sometimes I
• 2:06:11
  resist that. Oh yeah, Doctor Who was good
• 2:06:13
  because it was bad. I don't agree with that, but I
• 2:06:15
  but I but sometimes bits not quite working in the way that
• 2:06:18
  they should make it sort of somehow comfortingly.
• 2:06:21
  Doctor Who. So I love, I love Delta.
• 2:06:25
  I'm torn between it's in paradise.
• 2:06:27
  So I'm going to be interested to see how this goes because I come
• 2:06:30
  from different views. I loved Paradise at the time I
• 2:06:32
  was less less keen on Delta. But I I wonder now if I think
• 2:06:37
  Delta is not the most successful of the season, so I would like
• 2:06:41
  to keep it her. Line reading of.
• 2:06:45
  She's due to change. The singing time is near.
• 2:06:49
  It's something else, isn't it? Yeah, she's.
• 2:06:53
  She's she's but bless, but bless her fabulously.
• 2:06:58
  Shit, you almost. As I say it all.
• 2:07:00
  It doesn't sort of doesn't matter, no.
• 2:07:03
  There's too much going on around.
• 2:07:04
  It Well look, shall we go to the comments?
• 2:07:08
  Michael Storm says. My least favorite of all time
• 2:07:12
  after all that, tonally, all over the place, awful
• 2:07:17
  performances save Don Henderson, Hugh Lloyd and Sarah Griffiths.
• 2:07:21
  The music is intrusive and the inclusion of the devil's gallop
• 2:07:24
  over a chase scene is supposed to be funny, but it's just
• 2:07:27
  embarrassing. All done.
• 2:07:30
  In contrast, says my most favorite feel good story ever.
• 2:07:33
  Just perfect. Great period setting.
• 2:07:36
  Don Henderson is wonderful. McCoy has become his doctor.
• 2:07:39
  Great guest cast. Bum, bum, bum.
• 2:07:43
  David Gillespie, Pratt says. The one with Ken Dodd, who turns
• 2:07:46
  out to be quite good value in his small role before getting
• 2:07:48
  brutally murdered. Perhaps one of the daftest
• 2:07:51
  stories ever close to ATV action comic strip, which is a good
• 2:07:54
  thing. We needed more like this, Dylan
• 2:07:57
  Reece says. Bonkers.
• 2:07:58
  Nonsensical and hilarious. You can mock it, but you can't
• 2:08:02
  knock it. Another breath of fresh air.
• 2:08:04
  The best story set in Earth's history since the heart of the
• 2:08:07
  era. Yeah, Jeff Richardson says.
• 2:08:10
  Oh, hello. Bernard Bernard's come in, Jeff
• 2:08:12
  Richardson says good fun, dull Americans and slow padding.
• 2:08:16
  But I love Billy and Ray, the green baby, the bus people and
• 2:08:20
  that baddie Doc's great. Mel friggin Bush takes the cake.
• 2:08:24
  Fucking green baby. With the the fellas inside the
• 2:08:28
  mouth complexicated, Cookie says it's one of the most unserious
• 2:08:32
  stories ever, but I find it impossible not to be taken along
• 2:08:35
  for the ride. Plus it features 2 guest actors
• 2:08:38
  who had number one hits Jack. Koya says I love the ambition of
• 2:08:43
  trying to tie Garron with bees into the shimmer and lifestyle
• 2:08:46
  cycle. Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:08:47
  Ray's a great character until the plot demands she step into
• 2:08:50
  the background. Her time with the Doctor is more
• 2:08:52
  than Mel gets. Although at least she can thaw
• 2:08:54
  the heart of Ice Queen Delta. Although at least she can thaw
• 2:08:58
  the heart of Ice Queen Delta. Bonnie Langford gets 2 lines in
• 2:09:02
  episode. Three does she 2.
• 2:09:05
  Lines. And one of.
• 2:09:07
  Them is Stop Stop, Darren Lit Randall says, a joyous,
• 2:09:13
  colourful romp brought to life with all the flair of 1987
• 2:09:17
  Crossroads. The extended Part 1 is like the
• 2:09:19
  best of Black Orchid Part 1. Massively improved by having
• 2:09:22
  this TARDIS crew. It can breathe.
• 2:09:24
  Less keen on parts 2:00 and 3:00, Daniel Knight says a
• 2:09:27
  charming. Summer romp with an excellent
• 2:09:29
  cast of fun characters which makes the sudden death of the
• 2:09:32
  Navarinos really shocking and effective.
• 2:09:35
  PSI love Ray Jason Thompson, one of my favorite.
• 2:09:38
  Stories. A wonderful, joyous atmosphere,
• 2:09:40
  even with genocide as the main plot beat and the 7th Doctor
• 2:09:44
  arrives properly. Shout out to Burton, one of the
• 2:09:46
  best supporting characters ever. Bumbling Comic Relief until he
• 2:09:50
  finds out what's really going on.
• 2:09:52
  Steps up to the mark as one of the bravest, bravest people ever
• 2:09:55
  to appear in Doctor Who. Yeah, and he says the line space
• 2:09:57
  buns. For tea, Mark Donaldson says
• 2:10:00
  many people say survival is the blueprint for the RTD era, but
• 2:10:04
  it's not. Oh, many people say survival is
• 2:10:06
  the blueprint for the RTD era, but it's not.
• 2:10:09
  It's Delta. Colourful aliens, Welsh
• 2:10:11
  locations, a cast of memorable minor characters and a proper
• 2:10:15
  love story. Oh, and Don Henderson gnaws on a
• 2:10:18
  big knuckle. A joy.
• 2:10:20
  That's, that's very true, isn't it?
• 2:10:21
  I remember, yeah, I remember when this and the Green Death
• 2:10:23
  with the Welsh Doctor Who stories has changed.
• 2:10:27
  Mark Donaldson says many people. Oh no, that's wrong, Big Orange
• 2:10:30
  Michael says the banner men aren't threatening or
• 2:10:33
  interesting, and Ray is an interesting companion that could
• 2:10:36
  have been however to the bin. Oh sigh.
• 2:10:39
  Hearts is. Probably my favorite of the
• 2:10:41
  year. Gorgeous summary, location work,
• 2:10:43
  a fun little story, great cast, the music.
• 2:10:46
  What's not to love? Paul Cresser, My favorite, then.
• 2:10:49
  And now I'll return to more exciting Doctor Who with
• 2:10:52
  spaceships and gun battles. The rest is still a lot of fun,
• 2:10:56
  even if the cast are playing it for last and half.
• 2:10:58
  Deadly straight with Bonnie and Sylvester somewhere in the
• 2:11:01
  middle, Crashed Dummy says. My true love.
• 2:11:05
  I could watch it anytime. Just thinking of it makes me
• 2:11:08
  smile. It's the most bonkers.
• 2:11:10
  Who in the best way? Perfection Tom Newsome Part 1
• 2:11:15
  might be one of the. Best first episodes the show
• 2:11:17
  ever did, even if I find the American agents completely
• 2:11:20
  baffling, John Hall says. I never hated Delta the way most
• 2:11:24
  fans did, but it always seemed lightweight and inconsequential.
• 2:11:28
  These days it's a breath of fresh air and ironically the
• 2:11:30
  most like 2005 who made in Wales, starring a young lady
• 2:11:34
  then better known for her singing than acting.
• 2:11:37
  An ultimate comment, James. Locke.
• 2:11:38
  How blinkered were contemporary fans not to appreciate his deaf
• 2:11:41
  mix of epic and intimate humor and Jeopardy, the absurd and the
• 2:11:46
  mundane? This is both joyously silly
• 2:11:48
  nonsense and mature character drama, beautifully played by a
• 2:11:51
  fabulous cast amongst whom McCoy absolutely shines the season
• 2:11:56
  highlight by a country mile. I think he likes it.
• 2:11:59
  He does. Matt Foy says never a favorite
• 2:12:01
  but grows on me with each rewatch.
• 2:12:03
  Bar some terrible casting choices and green babies, Don
• 2:12:07
  Henderson plays it straight and feels a genuine threat.
• 2:12:11
  Mikey Smith. You handsome.
• 2:12:13
  Bastard. What do you think of Delta and
• 2:12:15
  the Panaman? OK, so the first thing I want to
• 2:12:19
  say is that I've just worked out this is quite a frightening
• 2:12:24
  thing that the 50s is to Delta and the Banaman what Britpop is
• 2:12:29
  to us now. Oh good God.
• 2:12:32
  So I just. Want you to Mull on that?
• 2:12:34
  We're ageing to death, Billy. Billy would be singing.
• 2:12:37
  Oasis would he if he was. I love that genuine grunge and
• 2:12:45
  also. While we're talking about
• 2:12:48
  blooming the the guy from the flying pickets, can we all agree
• 2:12:52
  that Yazoo did the better version of Only You?
• 2:12:57
  I love the flying. Pickets.
• 2:12:59
  I love the flying pickets Dying. I love it.
• 2:13:03
  I love Yazoo. As well, but I love the flying.
• 2:13:04
  Pickets person, but I'm not a musical person, so I would I
• 2:13:08
  would never make a definitive statement, but I love I do like
• 2:13:10
  the flying pickets version. Well, I'm I'm very definitive
• 2:13:13
  when it comes. To all matters Alsa Moye, I'm
• 2:13:16
  afraid, yeah. So yeah, I absolutely love it.
• 2:13:22
  I love Doctor Who, where there's a feeling that you can almost
• 2:13:27
  imagine the filming of it, and you can almost.
• 2:13:30
  Put yourself there and. I don't know if it's just me,
• 2:13:33
  but my ultimate fan fantasy is to be there and often I have
• 2:13:39
  dreams where I'm on the set of a particular episode and I have
• 2:13:46
  quite lucid director dreams so I can decide where to go, where to
• 2:13:49
  look. So I'm in Television Centre and
• 2:13:51
  I'm walking around and they're making, you know, I don't know,
• 2:13:55
  worries of the deep. I mean, God, worst luck, it's
• 2:13:59
  there. Come.
• 2:14:00
  On Yeah, so I'm walking around. I'm looking behind the set, I'm
• 2:14:04
  looking in drawers, you know, and dealt with.
• 2:14:07
  The Bannerman was one of those episodes where it wears its
• 2:14:11
  production. On its sleeve.
• 2:14:12
  You can just feel it. You can feel the warmth of the
• 2:14:16
  sun, you can feel the long days filming when you see the grass.
• 2:14:23
  That's overgrown because these weren't chalets that people were
• 2:14:27
  in. These were the chalet blocks
• 2:14:29
  that weren't being used. You can smell that grass.
• 2:14:31
  It's just, there's just something absolutely bloody
• 2:14:35
  delicious about the whole thing. Yes, some bits are totally
• 2:14:41
  crazy, you know, and the sound guy hasn't quite worked out how
• 2:14:46
  to deal with sound in a small chalet.
• 2:14:50
  And can I just say Toby said earlier about, you know what,
• 2:14:53
  how do people go to these chalets?
• 2:14:55
  Well, I was on touring Rome with something last year and we spent
• 2:14:59
  two nights at Maidenhead Butlins and it's the same well as.
• 2:15:04
  Miserable. It's.
• 2:15:06
  Exactly the the chalet. That we were in was exactly the
• 2:15:10
  same, but but yeah, I just when I was at school or something
• 2:15:16
  really random. I don't know why, but whoever
• 2:15:18
  was, whoever was our head teacher, I'm talking about
• 2:15:20
  primary school now. They were really into Butlins.
• 2:15:24
  So once a year there was a school trip to Butlins and we
• 2:15:28
  did Perfelli one year and we did Skegness one year.
• 2:15:35
  And so I'm just happy seeing, you know, I'm just happy seeing
• 2:15:39
  Butlins. And yeah, this is the one for me
• 2:15:42
  that is quite filmic. I think of it as filmic.
• 2:15:47
  I think it's the way that it integrates music into it.
• 2:15:53
  You know how in like a drama, you'll be listening to a
• 2:15:58
  incidental piece of music and then it'll end up on a radio?
• 2:16:02
  You know they do that kind of. Cut across.
• 2:16:05
  I feel like that's a trick that's used in this.
• 2:16:10
  It's a pleasure. Ken Dodd, what can you say?
• 2:16:16
  Yeah, it's a pleasure. I would say I've watched this a
• 2:16:19
  lot less than the likes of Dragon Fire and Paradise Towers,
• 2:16:26
  but it's good to know it's there when I need it.
• 2:16:29
  Wonderful. Thank you, Rob.
• 2:16:33
  Yeah, I, I. I watch.
• 2:16:35
  Paradise Towers more than this one.
• 2:16:37
  I don't know why I I suspect I feel my life would be better if
• 2:16:42
  I just watched Paradise Towers less and Delta and the Bannermen
• 2:16:45
  more. I think it's a love story.
• 2:16:48
  My God I love a love story. Doctor Who doesn't do them.
• 2:16:50
  It ends with two people and their kids going off and
• 2:16:56
  starting a whole new civilization.
• 2:16:58
  It was. It feels so fresh.
• 2:17:00
  I love Ken Dodd in this. I just also just love the idea
• 2:17:04
  of the TARDIS, you know, winning a price of being with the
• 2:17:08
  brilliant customer. It's really good into a story
• 2:17:11
  and my God, I mean the thing, the thing that really makes me
• 2:17:15
  always I don't I forget Delta and the bandwidth so often.
• 2:17:18
  But the thing that really tells you you're in the in the
• 2:17:20
  presence of not just greatness, but of a show kind of doing
• 2:17:23
  something that was really brand new.
• 2:17:25
  And I just it's one tiny moment. It's when you you cut from the
• 2:17:31
  the the Ken Dodds and Doctor and Mel to Navarrino's as Murray is
• 2:17:38
  coming through the transformation arch and and he's
• 2:17:41
  he's going from purple squabbly blood monster into bus driver.
• 2:17:45
  And that just that moment is just so confidently with the
• 2:17:49
  Doctor Who doesn't do this. We it's it's it's successful in
• 2:17:54
  the tone it's going for. I would love for Dell from the
• 2:17:59
  fan of men to have had twice as much money spent on it.
• 2:18:01
  I'd have loved this. I'd have loved a really kind of,
• 2:18:04
  you know, the production to feel like God, they oh, they they
• 2:18:08
  really forked out on this one. But no, I love it.
• 2:18:11
  I think that the I think Gavrock is really pretty terrifying
• 2:18:15
  villain and a lot of things about the the bannermen, they
• 2:18:18
  feel like real world genocidal mercenaries.
• 2:18:22
  You know, they, you know, they there is talk of, you know,
• 2:18:25
  intergalactic courts and, you know, the, the kind of that
• 2:18:30
  human rights violation by thing that real genocidal mercenaries,
• 2:18:34
  you know, in Yugoslavia or wherever, you know, would deal
• 2:18:38
  with. So he feels kind of like, yeah,
• 2:18:40
  he he belongs in some kind of real world.
• 2:18:43
  I love the 50s setting, you know, to to to my immediate
• 2:18:48
  association on TV was this is Doctor Who does high behind.
• 2:18:51
  You know, I know this, but I know from high behind.
• 2:18:55
  But this, this, this feels like this is Andrew Cartmel is kind
• 2:18:59
  of taking this in a new direction.
• 2:19:01
  But also to be honest, it's it's John Nathan Turner kind of doing
• 2:19:04
  successful John Nathan Turner stuff.
• 2:19:07
  I love the music in it. I I and I love the the the sheer
• 2:19:11
  guts and courage to do a story that's this light, joyful and
• 2:19:15
  about about love and relationships and winning out
• 2:19:19
  over hatred and genocidal monsters who are essentially
• 2:19:24
  human. So it's, it's, it's, it's kind
• 2:19:27
  of more grown up than, you know, Paradise Towers.
• 2:19:30
  Paradise Towers is doing, you know, you know, we're talking
• 2:19:32
  about, you know, essentially we're doing like a Marxist
• 2:19:35
  reading of, you know, social housing in the 80s, whatever.
• 2:19:38
  But this is not no, no, no, this is like, no, we are, we are, we
• 2:19:41
  are unafraid. We're unafraid of doing a fun
• 2:19:45
  like 50 set love story adventure in Wales.
• 2:19:52
  Yeah. And but I always, I always, I
• 2:19:54
  always forget what a ride it is. I kind of, I think, I think I
• 2:19:59
  kind. Of think of all the.
• 2:20:00
  The OB, the OB kind of broadcast look feels a bit cheap.
• 2:20:04
  I wish, you know, it wouldn't be great if it was, you know, Yeah,
• 2:20:07
  more, you know, if it just hadn't had a bigger budget or
• 2:20:11
  whatever. But those are those are silly
• 2:20:13
  quibbles from an idiot. Yeah.
• 2:20:15
  So this is definitely going through.
• 2:20:18
  Yeah. Because I, I think, I think The
• 2:20:20
  thing is, it's just it's dealing with sort of the subject matter
• 2:20:25
  and kind of story choices that Doctor Who hadn't really done up
• 2:20:30
  to now. So yeah, it does feel like a
• 2:20:32
  window opening. It really does.
• 2:20:35
  Yeah. It says as much for.
• 2:20:37
  Andrew Cartmel for trying this doesn't it as John Nathan Turner
• 2:20:41
  to to do something this light and this fun.
• 2:20:45
  You know, especially after where Doctor Who's been for the last
• 2:20:47
  couple of years. It's it's a space.
• 2:20:50
  It's a. It's a.
• 2:20:51
  It's a bus spaceship. You know, it's just brilliant.
• 2:20:55
  Hit by an American satellite and.
• 2:20:57
  Landing in Butlins, I mean it's a Doctor Who thing again though,
• 2:21:01
  isn't it Rob? It's we're promised Disneyland
• 2:21:03
  and we get miserable chalets in in Wales.
• 2:21:06
  Bless them. I at the war dealt with the
• 2:21:09
  bannerman. I think this might be one of my
• 2:21:12
  all time favorite Doctor actor performances in any Doctor Who
• 2:21:16
  story. I think McCoy is word perfect.
• 2:21:19
  He's emotion perfect. He's he's just brilliant in
• 2:21:22
  this. That be it where he's having the
• 2:21:24
  scene with Mill in the cafeteria.
• 2:21:27
  I don't know what he's doing with that apple, but it just
• 2:21:29
  feels so Doctor Ish to me that the speech he gives to Gavrock
• 2:21:33
  at the end of episode 2, again, he is lying perfect in that
• 2:21:37
  speech. Even that actually, I think I
• 2:21:40
  may have gone a little too far, you know, straight to the
• 2:21:43
  camera, perfect. The way he looks out mournfully
• 2:21:47
  straight at the camera and says about love is never known for
• 2:21:49
  its rationality. We've I think Andrew Cartmel
• 2:21:53
  knows. We've had a couple of years with
• 2:21:55
  her, through no fault of Colin Baker, an abrasive, unlikable
• 2:21:59
  Dr. And they're really trying to make him as thoughtful, as
• 2:22:04
  funny, as likable as possible. And I just think it all coheres
• 2:22:08
  here brilliantly, and he's great.
• 2:22:11
  I also really love all of those subsidiary characters that
• 2:22:14
  everyone says shouldn't be in this.
• 2:22:17
  People say, well, what did I add to the story?
• 2:22:19
  Because in the last episode, yeah, they all get something to
• 2:22:21
  do, but it's just like, I'll hold that rope or something like
• 2:22:24
  that. You know, they're not exactly
• 2:22:25
  plot functions, but they just pump the whole story.
• 2:22:28
  Full of humour, full of charm, full of character.
• 2:22:31
  By the end of the story, in this glorious sunny location, Doctor
• 2:22:34
  Who has got this enormous gang of insane, eccentric characters.
• 2:22:39
  It's just wonderful. I could just hang out there for
• 2:22:42
  a few more episodes, but the invasions and the genocidal
• 2:22:45
  Nazis? It's the music.
• 2:22:47
  Wonderful, nostalgic, catchy, perfectly suiting the tones of
• 2:22:51
  the peace. Here's to the future that the
• 2:22:54
  electric guitar that comes in during the last set piece, that
• 2:22:58
  is gorgeous. Anybody says Kev can't do it, he
• 2:23:01
  can do it. And yeah, you've all mentioned
• 2:23:03
  the sunny, crisp, colorful, beautiful location work.
• 2:23:06
  I love Doctor Who out in the country because I spent a lot of
• 2:23:09
  my childhood out in the country. So when we're running around
• 2:23:12
  fields and things like that, that's exactly where I could
• 2:23:15
  pretend to play Doctor Who. I just adore this.
• 2:23:18
  I do watch this on a regular occasion and that's why I'm as
• 2:23:22
  mad and as upbeat. As I frequently AM.
• 2:23:25
  Of course it's going through, Joe, don't you think that?
• 2:23:28
  Delta, Nevannaman. Is really like silver Nemesis
• 2:23:30
  see like in the way in the way shifts between various different
• 2:23:34
  little mini missions that different characters are doing.
• 2:23:37
  Although yeah, I'd say you could.
• 2:23:39
  Probably. Cut about half of Silver Nemesis
• 2:23:42
  runtime and still do the same plot.
• 2:23:44
  Yeah, but that kind of idea that you're kind.
• 2:23:46
  Of like following this like frantic pace of all these
• 2:23:48
  different characters do in store and because it's again, it's all
• 2:23:53
  done on. Location, so it looks really
• 2:23:55
  gorgeous and it doesn't stay anywhere long enough for you to
• 2:23:57
  get bored. Yeah, I'll see it.
• 2:24:00
  I'm just going to mention this now.
• 2:24:01
  Because what I'll never ever mention it again, that the
• 2:24:04
  shaking the apple thing mystified.
• 2:24:06
  That's so you can hear the pips, so that you know it's ripe,
• 2:24:10
  isn't it? I have no idea, I thought.
• 2:24:13
  That was the kind of thing that. Actors come up with It's also
• 2:24:18
  what a Time Lord. Does to understand.
• 2:24:20
  About apples, yeah. It's, you know, it's a time.
• 2:24:22
  It's a, it's the Time Lord Apple manoeuvre, Mr. McCoy.
• 2:24:25
  You know, it's always makes sense to me.
• 2:24:27
  It's. Like he's, you know, he does the
• 2:24:29
  hat. Thing in Paradise Towers when he
• 2:24:31
  sort of says hello to a Oh yes, Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:24:35
  No, it's just to me, the Apple thing, just I, I, I always saw
• 2:24:38
  the sense in that anyway, just bring up the Apple thing just to
• 2:24:43
  you got carried away in the sun. You said about the bit where
• 2:24:46
  he's. Dancing with Ray the pair that
• 2:24:48
  kills me is where he says Billy you know a romantic song from
• 2:24:52
  across the pond for a very special lady in the audience and
• 2:24:55
  Ray looks all exciting Delta so hard all had that moment in our
• 2:25:01
  lives and we when they're looking at the the wrong person
• 2:25:03
  and the doctor realizes and Ray is so.
• 2:25:07
  I have to say, I think he's made the Ray is at Ray.
• 2:25:10
  It's absolutely gorgeous. Spas on fellas before we head
• 2:25:16
  into, obviously. The meteoric classic of the
• 2:25:18
  season. Would you please do me the honor
• 2:25:21
  of reading the second batch of overview comments?
• 2:25:23
  And let's start with Mikey. This one.
• 2:25:27
  Comes from. Darren under score lit roundels.
• 2:25:33
  Hey, you can. Keep your.
• 2:25:34
  Dark Doctor, which means he frowns and grows a lot.
• 2:25:37
  I love this Doctor. He's just bumbling around the
• 2:25:41
  universe, sightseeing and looking for adventure, joined by
• 2:25:45
  a companion who likes him and wants to be there.
• 2:25:48
  Joyous Holcomb. Lovely.
• 2:25:51
  And not really midge. Your I don't know, you process
• 2:25:55
  too much there, Midge. I think a breath of fresh air
• 2:25:58
  after the dire Sayward years. Paradise Towers is absolutely
• 2:26:01
  fantastic, and Dragon fire bar a few cringey moments is great
• 2:26:05
  too. Even Silver's mangled proverbs
• 2:26:08
  make me smile. Time and tide melt the snowman
• 2:26:11
  indeed, and. Michael Storm, who's 7 and.
• 2:26:15
  From Croydon says a mixed bag with the new regime finding
• 2:26:20
  their footing. Does it all work?
• 2:26:22
  No, but there is a sense of fresh air and new imagination
• 2:26:25
  blowing away the cobwebs of Saywood, flawed but highly
• 2:26:30
  charged with promise of more electricity to come.
• 2:26:34
  PJ. Galley says at the.
• 2:26:36
  Time awful. Now I view it very differently.
• 2:26:40
  It's full of ideas and warmth, and if they've been the budget
• 2:26:43
  and better casting, Paradise Towers would have been amazing.
• 2:26:48
  Oh, I don't like this one. Charlie Barnes, Doctor Who, The
• 2:26:52
  Pantomime? Not sure.
• 2:26:55
  That's the approach they. Should have taken at the time.
• 2:26:58
  Cardinals anarchic comic book inspired style shows promise and
• 2:27:02
  McCoy grows into the role with each and every story.
• 2:27:04
  Campy and colourful. Why do people keep saying
• 2:27:08
  pantomime like it's a bad thing Joe?
• 2:27:11
  I say it as if. It's a good.
• 2:27:13
  Thing I love a pantomime, all right, yes.
• 2:27:17
  Chris. Hogman, Hello.
• 2:27:18
  Chris says this series does an awful lot of heavy lifting, a
• 2:27:21
  soft reboot, new Doctor companion style, etcetera.
• 2:27:25
  But it is fun, camp and over the top.
• 2:27:28
  Or is that? All that is that should be, but
• 2:27:31
  it is. Fun camping.
• 2:27:32
  Oh no it's fun. Not Melt and the Doctor work as
• 2:27:35
  they want to be together. I just wish it was one story
• 2:27:38
  longer. Fair enough.
• 2:27:40
  Spider Man 72 says. There's lots of like here.
• 2:27:44
  Delta is my highlight, mainly for Billy, looking very hot in
• 2:27:47
  his 50s, biker gear shallow I know Some great story ideas,
• 2:27:52
  though the execution doesn't always land, but still a fun
• 2:27:56
  season. Luke Simmons Jenkins says I.
• 2:27:59
  Always overlooked season 24. Now I see it for what it is, the
• 2:28:02
  start of something special. The stories are fun too.
• 2:28:07
  Mark Duddick. A fun, vibrant set of stories
• 2:28:10
  with an infectious energy to them.
• 2:28:12
  Although there are missteps along the way, this is the most
• 2:28:15
  refreshing and entertaining year of the classic run.
• 2:28:18
  Can't help but feel the McCoy era loses something when he
• 2:28:22
  ditches this energy. Herald of Creation.
• 2:28:26
  The. Nadir of the original series,
• 2:28:28
  Rani is an embarrassing pantomime paradise.
• 2:28:33
  'S JG Bala. Performed as Rent A Ghost Delta
• 2:28:36
  surprisingly works. It's not until you get to Dragon
• 2:28:39
  Fire that you see glimpses of who the 7th Doctor could be, and
• 2:28:43
  we have a traditional style story.
• 2:28:45
  The seeds of the cancellation were sown here.
• 2:28:47
  Not I don't know if I've. Ever disagreed with a comment
• 2:28:51
  more? I don't see the glimpses of the
• 2:28:53
  7th Doctor till Dragon fire madness.
• 2:28:58
  Paul Quinn not. Related not perfect, but it's
• 2:29:02
  the best single season since 18 or 19.
• 2:29:06
  Cardinal was a godsend, and his decision to bring in new writers
• 2:29:10
  results in a run of mostly strong stories and sets in place
• 2:29:14
  the model for the Virgin and BBC books, as well as much of New
• 2:29:18
  Who and Anderson H. One definitely the weakest
• 2:29:22
  season of the classic run. I like all the stories to some
• 2:29:25
  degree, though the show feels that it's been written and
• 2:29:27
  filmed by a high school drama class.
• 2:29:30
  Come on. Burn right?
• 2:29:34
  I suppose. I have been left.
• 2:29:36
  To start with, time and the Rani, the ultimate.
• 2:29:43
  Doctor Who? Pantomime, and I mean that with
• 2:29:46
  the highest possible praise. OK, watching this I I go to the
• 2:29:51
  pantomime every year Yeah. And it's full of mad campery
• 2:29:55
  colour. You know, great laughs one.
• 2:29:58
  Well, no, usually terrible jokes delivered with such instinct and
• 2:30:02
  charisma that they spin them into gold and that's a lot
• 2:30:06
  what's happening in time in the Rani.
• 2:30:08
  It's just fucking amazing actors taking hold of an idiosyncratic
• 2:30:15
  script, shall we say, and just having a blast with it.
• 2:30:20
  It's absolutely a handover script.
• 2:30:22
  Obviously Pip and Jane were heavily involved in the previous
• 2:30:26
  era. We know that Andrew Carmer
• 2:30:28
  wouldn't have used them. It details brilliantly in script
• 2:30:31
  Doc. So, you know, I'll say it again,
• 2:30:33
  Andrew phoning up Pip and Jane and saying, you know, I need
• 2:30:36
  some script revisions. Pip answering the phone and
• 2:30:39
  going, oh, hello, Andrew, Jane going, who is it?
• 2:30:42
  Give me the phone. We're not changing the script.
• 2:30:44
  It's tough. And just puts the phone down on
• 2:30:46
  him. Like she was a beast and I love
• 2:30:48
  her to pieces. She knew what she wanted to do.
• 2:30:52
  I actually think this is a really competently plotted story
• 2:30:57
  once it gets going. She they introduce a lot of
• 2:30:59
  elements in one to three and it all culminates very neatly in
• 2:31:04
  four with a big threat to the universe and a chance for the
• 2:31:07
  new Doctor to save the day or the entire universe in the most
• 2:31:11
  heroic way you possibly can because she plans to rewrite
• 2:31:14
  time. That's quite a big threat and I
• 2:31:17
  think it's extremely well made as well.
• 2:31:19
  Given this is the worst story ever, I think there is some
• 2:31:23
  money on the screen in Time in the Rani.
• 2:31:26
  But the three reasons I would like to put this through is 3
• 2:31:30
  actors, I think, but number one is Sylvester McCoy.
• 2:31:35
  And I think Sylvester McCoy comes in and it does the shtick
• 2:31:39
  that he knows from the Ken Campbell roadshow.
• 2:31:41
  He starts throwing himself about the set and gobbling his lines
• 2:31:45
  and totally playing the the thing like up to 11.
• 2:31:48
  Yeah. And taking the piss out of it a
• 2:31:50
  little bit. I think through the course of
• 2:31:52
  this first story that is calmed down.
• 2:31:57
  And by the end of the. Story I think you do have a
• 2:31:59
  doctor that you're, you know, the way he says so at the end
• 2:32:02
  I'll grow a new meal. The way he saves the day and the
• 2:32:04
  way Darcy, the way he confronts the Rani, all of it.
• 2:32:07
  I just I absolutely buy it that this is our new Doctor.
• 2:32:11
  He's a nice bloke and I want to hang with him.
• 2:32:13
  And I think McCoy is he is being a bit lazy at the start of this
• 2:32:18
  story. But I do think come the end he's
• 2:32:21
  got it. But he can't hold a candle to
• 2:32:23
  Queso Mara, who is absolutely convinced that she's playing the
• 2:32:27
  most fabulous person in the entire universe, and she knows
• 2:32:32
  that there's nothing in nothing at all.
• 2:32:35
  That could possibly. Embarrass the Ronnie, which is
• 2:32:38
  fortunate because there are many embarrassing things in this
• 2:32:40
  story, but she just plays it as if she would she would play
• 2:32:43
  Dallas or Dynasty or any other serious drama.
• 2:32:46
  She's absolutely glorious. She commits to this role in a
• 2:32:50
  way that what we rarely see in Doctor Who, this isn't Richard
• 2:32:53
  Bryan sort of taking the piss. She's glorious.
• 2:32:58
  Bonnie Langford is my last reason and people will think I'm
• 2:33:02
  mad by saying that because obviously she plays every single
• 2:33:06
  line up to 11 and she never really comes down from that.
• 2:33:10
  But as written, Mel manages to talk around her kidnapper in the
• 2:33:15
  1st episode. She's full of agency and
• 2:33:18
  confidence throughout the entire story.
• 2:33:20
  She's empathetic to Faroon when she realizes she's lost her
• 2:33:23
  child. She beats up the doctor in one
• 2:33:25
  of the funniest scenes you're ever going to see.
• 2:33:28
  She saves the location's life by doing that the one time she does
• 2:33:31
  anything to do with computer programming with that wire in
• 2:33:34
  that episode. And she's appropriately appalled
• 2:33:37
  by the Rani schemes. All of this is dialed up way
• 2:33:42
  over the top. And I can see why this is
• 2:33:44
  absolutely the wrong approach for Doctor Who in 1987 is
• 2:33:48
  sending out the wrong message to everybody that this is a really
• 2:33:51
  silly, quite stupid over the top television show.
• 2:33:56
  We're not in 1987 anymore. The show went away.
• 2:33:59
  It came back. We can just enjoy this on its
• 2:34:02
  own terms now. What time in the Rani is it's
• 2:34:04
  just a great time. I, I, I genuinely think the
• 2:34:08
  jokes land in this. The bit where the Kate O'Mara
• 2:34:11
  looks straight out the screen and goes, I'm overwhelmed, gets
• 2:34:15
  a belly laugh out of me. The bit where he goes, why was
• 2:34:18
  the Ronnie dressed like you male?
• 2:34:19
  Well, perhaps she's fashion conscious.
• 2:34:21
  Like these lines are great and they're they're being delivered
• 2:34:24
  by great actors. It's really stupid.
• 2:34:29
  The three of you are probably going to.
• 2:34:30
  Hate it? But there are few stories that
• 2:34:33
  give me more pleasure than time in the Ronnie.
• 2:34:36
  I once described it in a review as being akin to having a 90
• 2:34:41
  minute wank that was all orgasm and I still agree with that to
• 2:34:45
  this day. I watched episode 4 this morning
• 2:34:48
  and I just had a blast with it. It's truly terrible in many,
• 2:34:51
  many ways, but I do think it is a well made, well acted piece of
• 2:34:56
  television that I just have fun with.
• 2:34:59
  So I am going to put this one through and see what you find.
• 2:35:02
  Gentlemen have to say next. But let's first go to the
• 2:35:06
  comments Toby. OK, so the.
• 2:35:09
  Comments on time and the Rani. We will begin with David
• 2:35:17
  Gillespie Pratt, who says it shouldn't work and often
• 2:35:21
  doesn't. You can see why people hate it,
• 2:35:24
  but I enjoy it a lot and more so over time.
• 2:35:27
  The bubble traps are great and while it's just another quarry,
• 2:35:29
  it feels vast. And of course, Kate O'Mara as
• 2:35:33
  Bonnie Langford as Mel Complex the Katie Cookie.
• 2:35:37
  Says utter tripe. Yes, it's wonderfully camp, but
• 2:35:40
  that can only carry it so far. From Colin being done dirty to
• 2:35:44
  the sheer OTT in this of it all, there's just one redeeming
• 2:35:47
  quality and that's Silv, who carries full weight of this
• 2:35:51
  steaming heap on his shoulders. James Lark says it's clear that
• 2:35:56
  Pip. And Jane don't have the depth or
• 2:35:57
  intellect this new era and. He had plenty of the 7th.
• 2:36:01
  Doctor arrives fully formed and instantly brilliant.
• 2:36:04
  The wistful quality, the warmth and the physical energy that
• 2:36:07
  switches to magnetic stillness in a heartbeat.
• 2:36:10
  Do you know that bit? After you know.
• 2:36:13
  He's picked Mel up and thrown her around a bit and they're
• 2:36:15
  going around that console touching each other's wrists to
• 2:36:19
  test the heartbeats, and he just goes, Mel.
• 2:36:22
  Oh my God, he's gorgeous, Daniel Knight says.
• 2:36:26
  Glorious. Kate O'Mara vamps up the camp.
• 2:36:29
  The Tetraps are fun, scary monsters for the kids.
• 2:36:32
  Mark Green Street's like Mark Green Street is beautiful.
• 2:36:35
  How dare they put him in that make up.
• 2:36:38
  Ikoner is a good foil to male. He should have been a companion.
• 2:36:41
  Pip and Jane's script, however, is verging on vertigenous
• 2:36:44
  verbosity, Paul Cresser says. Not quite as.
• 2:36:48
  Bad as its reputation, but not great.
• 2:36:50
  However, there's a wonderful moment in Part 2 when Wanda
• 2:36:53
  Ventham wanders into a scene and, despite having sequins
• 2:36:55
  glued to her face, lifts the whole thing by about 10 levels.
• 2:37:00
  She's really crying, Toby. Isn't she?
• 2:37:02
  Yeah, Yeah, there's few. Doctor Who stories with real
• 2:37:05
  tears, and one of them is is Wanda Ventham with paper stuck
• 2:37:10
  on her face in a wet quarry, looking at a skeleton, yet
• 2:37:14
  another victim. Michael Storm says visually
• 2:37:18
  impressive story. Rise is all rather silly, with
• 2:37:20
  the Rani reduced to a mad villain.
• 2:37:23
  What's wrong with that? As opposed to an amoral
• 2:37:25
  scientist of before? But the performance is elevated.
• 2:37:28
  Oscar Groucho says it works well.
• 2:37:30
  When considered as a coder for the 6th Doctor's era, as opposed
• 2:37:33
  to a bold new beginning, divesting expectations, this
• 2:37:37
  resembles one of those Choose Your Own Adventure 80s novels.
• 2:37:40
  Disposable, frothy fun. They did write one of those.
• 2:37:44
  Didn't they pick and Jane? I think I've got that.
• 2:37:47
  No, not the mine, Probe says despite the brilliance of
• 2:37:50
  packing mail into a giant zuba ball and bouncing her around a
• 2:37:53
  quarry. This water wall cringe.
• 2:37:56
  This is water wall cringe inducing horror, a coma inducing
• 2:38:00
  calamity of quite comprehensive cosmic catastrophe.
• 2:38:05
  God, you ensured you. Had that one, Joe.
• 2:38:06
  But you did it very well. Thank you very much.
• 2:38:09
  James Hadwin Bennett says McCoy clowns in a post regenerative
• 2:38:13
  haze. O'Mara camps and vamps for all
• 2:38:16
  it's worth and Langford let's RIP loudly.
• 2:38:19
  Every single person involved gives it their all because
• 2:38:21
  that's what who does it inspires keep.
• 2:38:25
  Have you noticed how Tom and? Arani has inspired the people
• 2:38:28
  doing the comments to, well, elevate futility to a high art.
• 2:38:34
  Dave Rennie says batshit crazy, pardon the pun as back creatures
• 2:38:38
  are in it, but I freaking love it.
• 2:38:40
  Kate Amara is having a ball and it's so watchable.
• 2:38:43
  I love her, Gareth barely says. Never understood why folk
• 2:38:47
  dislike it. It's visually stunning, a
• 2:38:50
  substantial step up in effects from previous years.
• 2:38:53
  McCoy is great to watch his face deliver great confusion in his
• 2:38:57
  amnesiac state. Wish there were more Pip and
• 2:39:00
  Jane stories. If he's not available, I will
• 2:39:03
  just. Call you OK, Jason Thompson.
• 2:39:06
  The unexpected need. To stick a new Doctor in his
• 2:39:08
  handle pretty well, and the camping glitter sits alongside
• 2:39:11
  some wonderful supporting characters, though the less said
• 2:39:14
  about the silly purple brain a male's excessive screaming, the
• 2:39:18
  better. Paul Dunn says bright.
• 2:39:20
  Gaudy, some abysmal acting and almost pantomime at times.
• 2:39:24
  I love it. Jack Coyer Part 1 is
• 2:39:26
  particularly. Dire, maybe the weakest of
• 2:39:29
  Classic Who? Too much clowning around,
• 2:39:30
  falling over, running on the spot.
• 2:39:32
  Once we get to the actual story, there's at least some energy and
• 2:39:35
  a touching ending, but ultimately not enough to salvage
• 2:39:38
  it. The killer bee laser pointer is
• 2:39:40
  perhaps the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen on TV,
• 2:39:46
  John. Hall says.
• 2:39:47
  Complete and utter camp and I adore it.
• 2:39:49
  Yes, it would have worked better as Colin's last story, but never
• 2:39:52
  mind. Paul Quinn, This is old.
• 2:39:55
  Whose flux? It shouldn't exist, but it does
• 2:39:58
  and it's mostly wonderful. The mistake is to have the post
• 2:40:01
  regeneration silliness compounded by the Ronnie's
• 2:40:04
  injection. It hampers McCoy for the best
• 2:40:06
  part of two episodes. Matt Foy says absolute.
• 2:40:10
  Shite and one of the worst stories ever.
• 2:40:13
  I actually like panto but don't think who should go down that
• 2:40:16
  route. Cartmel.
• 2:40:17
  Cartmel got a lot right but he clearly gave up on this.
• 2:40:21
  Alan Alan Mcwan says. That's not a name I recognize.
• 2:40:25
  Sorry, Alan, I couldn't. Oh, Alan's a good guy.
• 2:40:27
  Alan's a lovely. Fella Yeah, yeah, we love you,
• 2:40:30
  Alan. I couldn't.
• 2:40:31
  Go as far as to say it's good, but I could probably name at
• 2:40:33
  least one story per season I enjoy less And Niles.
• 2:40:38
  Crane says. Absolutely garbage.
• 2:40:40
  One of the worst stories in the show's history.
• 2:40:44
  Now I'm going to go. To Mikey now, because he looked
• 2:40:46
  apoplectic a second ago, he was sort of shaking his hands in a
• 2:40:49
  range because people keep saying panto.
• 2:40:52
  And it really grinds my gears, Joe.
• 2:40:55
  But he said he liked panto. He just didn't.
• 2:40:58
  But if you come. To the Trinity Arts Theatre in
• 2:41:00
  Gainsborough this Christmas. And and watch me as models.
• 2:41:05
  In Snow White, starring Basil Brush, you'll understand.
• 2:41:07
  Well done. Then you'll understand that
• 2:41:10
  there's more to the art. Storm tickets on sale now.
• 2:41:12
  You know, Mikey, this is going out Christmas Day, are you?
• 2:41:14
  Still running after this? Yes, I am still running very
• 2:41:17
  much. So like diarrhoea, I'm still
• 2:41:19
  running all the way through to New Year's Eve.
• 2:41:23
  Well, what do you think of time and?
• 2:41:24
  Arani. Oh yeah, sorry.
• 2:41:26
  Yeah, time and Arani. So I don't want to upset you.
• 2:41:30
  Joe But I don't like it. I don't.
• 2:41:31
  Think it's very good. No, no.
• 2:41:33
  I mean, I kind of knew this was. Coming.
• 2:41:34
  Don't worry. Yeah.
• 2:41:35
  I just think it's, I think. It's pretty bad in my brain.
• 2:41:40
  You know, we all categorize things.
• 2:41:41
  I just take it out. It's for me, It's not part of
• 2:41:46
  it. I think the problem might.
• 2:41:49
  I think the problem it is obviously Pip and Jane, but also
• 2:41:53
  I think it's partly Sylvester. So I'm going to, I'm going to
• 2:41:59
  pick up Toby's illusion. Illusions.
• 2:42:01
  Is that the right word to stand up comedy?
• 2:42:03
  Is that all right, Toby? By all means.
• 2:42:06
  So I've only ever done stand up comedy.
• 2:42:08
  Three times in my whole life, right?
• 2:42:10
  The first time it went terrible. The second time it went worse.
• 2:42:18
  And the third. Time it went.
• 2:42:20
  OK. And I feel like we're still in
• 2:42:23
  Silv's tryout night and he's just when you're nervous and you
• 2:42:28
  don't know what you're doing, you're just peddling as fast as
• 2:42:31
  you can as a performer. You're just peddling, peddling
• 2:42:34
  and just hoping you get through the day.
• 2:42:36
  And he's peddling through this like Billy or I'm surprised his
• 2:42:39
  chain doesn't come off. It's it, It's not this is not
• 2:42:43
  the 7th Doctor. It's it's.
• 2:42:46
  Not it's, it's not. Good man.
• 2:42:48
  It's not good, I think. I think the writing's obviously
• 2:42:51
  bad, but Sylvie's probably the main the main problem.
• 2:42:56
  What's bad about the writing? Knuckle it down for me.
• 2:43:00
  What's going on? Here, Joe.
• 2:43:02
  I mean, what is when you bake it down?
• 2:43:04
  What's got? OK, tell me the plot.
• 2:43:06
  Forget the regeneration. Tell me the plot of Time of the
• 2:43:09
  Run in two sentences. The Rani blasts.
• 2:43:13
  The TARDIS down onto the planet Lakersha in order to steal
• 2:43:17
  knowledge of time from the Doctor's brain, to add to a
• 2:43:21
  series of geniuses that she's captured through time in order
• 2:43:24
  to make a time manipulator and thus rewrite all of history to
• 2:43:30
  her own design. How did I do that was one
• 2:43:33
  sentence. God, you know you're right.
• 2:43:35
  It's a fantastic. Show, it's wonderful.
• 2:43:37
  It really is OK, Good effort, just don't think it's very good.
• 2:43:44
  I think the effects are brilliant, like the thing with
• 2:43:47
  the bouncing thing that's we've not seen.
• 2:43:50
  Effects like that I mean. Tell me if I'm wrong lads, but
• 2:43:53
  we have not seen effects like that in Doctoroo until this
• 2:43:55
  point, no? When it.
• 2:43:57
  Goes on the. Water as well, yeah.
• 2:43:59
  At the at the time that was like.
• 2:44:01
  Oh, they've they've really stepped up with the effects.
• 2:44:02
  Yeah, the bounce on the water is is a cracker.
• 2:44:05
  At one point I thought I was watching teabag.
• 2:44:07
  Torby. It's it's fantastic.
• 2:44:12
  But it's just not right. It's just not right.
• 2:44:14
  It's just off. And I think it's probably Sylve.
• 2:44:18
  Oh yeah, And Wanda Bentham is a terrible actress.
• 2:44:21
  The end. Thank you.
• 2:44:22
  What the fuck? You mean?
• 2:44:26
  That. I do, yeah.
• 2:44:27
  She's even batting. Only fools and.
• 2:44:29
  Horses. And who's batting?
• 2:44:30
  Only fools and horses. Wow.
• 2:44:32
  Well. I'm sure.
• 2:44:33
  That's going to be counters shortly.
• 2:44:35
  What about the tetrap? So don't you love those?
• 2:44:38
  I can't believe you moved on the Tetraps.
• 2:44:40
  Toby Toby's still getting over the Wanda Bentham or he's coming
• 2:44:44
  for you. He's coming for you.
• 2:44:48
  The Tetraps. Do you know what they're?
• 2:44:49
  Actually quite a good designer, aren't they?
• 2:44:51
  Oh yeah, I used to love. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:44:53
  But yeah, great. Yeah.
• 2:44:55
  Do you not remember the little Dappo figure?
• 2:44:57
  Of the Tetraps, gorgeous. That's the thing, the effects,
• 2:45:00
  you know, the the. Colouring of the sky is is so
• 2:45:03
  much better than like the year before in Trial of a Time Lord.
• 2:45:08
  The the effects, the creature design, it's all great, but it's
• 2:45:12
  just terrible. Oh yes, Doctor Who, isn't it?
• 2:45:18
  Exactly. I mean, I love it.
• 2:45:19
  I obviously. Love.
• 2:45:20
  It I've obviously watched it 50 times, but I'm just saying it's
• 2:45:24
  just like compared to the other in the in in the season, it's
• 2:45:26
  not great. Is it really?
• 2:45:29
  So am I to assume you're pinning?
• 2:45:30
  This one, yeah, I'm sorry. Just this one I.
• 2:45:34
  Kept the other 3. It's been a fine friendship to
• 2:45:36
  this point. But let's move on.
• 2:45:38
  I'm sorry and I want to apologise for the.
• 2:45:39
  Wonder comments from earlier. I've got to go to Toby last.
• 2:45:42
  You give me time. To sort of build up his
• 2:45:44
  argument. Help.
• 2:45:47
  Yeah, well. Consid I was I.
• 2:45:49
  Went into what were you watching?
• 2:45:50
  This one, which I don't do very often, expecting it to be lousy.
• 2:45:54
  I was surprised by how expensive it looked.
• 2:45:58
  I I keep forgetting it's a damn good quarry.
• 2:46:00
  It looks like an alien planet all the kind of is it the contel
• 2:46:04
  paint box stuff all looks lovely.
• 2:46:09
  Considering the plot is. Build this giant brain, have a
• 2:46:13
  rocket. There isn't a line that says
• 2:46:15
  trust the right to combine brain surgery and rocket science and
• 2:46:18
  that that line, that line should be in there I think.
• 2:46:21
  But anyway, it is terrible. But I was watching the one
• 2:46:27
  interesting thing I observed this time around is the sort of
• 2:46:31
  the the Doctor trying on different costume scenes.
• 2:46:35
  And this is really for the this is quite a very interesting take
• 2:46:38
  on it. I realized only on this time
• 2:46:40
  what it's doing. He tries on the 4th Doctor's
• 2:46:44
  outfit, then the 3rd Doctor's outfit, then the 5th and it's
• 2:46:49
  all no, no, no, no, no. Then he comes out in the Second
• 2:46:52
  Doctor's coat and pulls it off, revealing the success.
• 2:46:57
  So really it's I might be just reading in too much, too much
• 2:47:00
  into it because I was just trying to find something to kind
• 2:47:02
  of hold on to here. But it is kind of saying we're
• 2:47:04
  doing, we're doing the Second Doctor again, kind of that's
• 2:47:07
  kind that was kind of on this reading of it that suddenly hit
• 2:47:12
  me. That's true.
• 2:47:13
  I don't know but. That was the idea in.
• 2:47:15
  The script I don't well because. Because he's trying.
• 2:47:17
  Because he's trying on past. Costumes until he lands on the
• 2:47:19
  second one and it's in the 2nd Doctor's costume within his fur
• 2:47:23
  coat that we land on. This is who I'm going to be.
• 2:47:27
  Oh yeah, it's it's bad for all the reasons you know, Mike has
• 2:47:31
  come with it. No, no, no, it's I I mean, I
• 2:47:37
  could be watching LA confidential right now, but no,
• 2:47:40
  I'm watching time on the right. So you're winning it live.
• 2:47:44
  No, no, no, I, I going back when I was 7.
• 2:47:47
  No, I absolutely loved it. I know I here's I love all the
• 2:47:50
  stuff in it, but that's not how you cook a meal.
• 2:47:54
  The tetraps are great. I think Kate Amara is great.
• 2:47:57
  The whole idea of the Rani impersonating Mel, that's all a
• 2:48:01
  riot. I think a lot of the problem is
• 2:48:03
  having the scripts kind of having.
• 2:48:05
  I hate having amnesiac doctors for two episodes.
• 2:48:08
  I think it's a waste, a waste of time.
• 2:48:13
  The clowning thing in the first episode is kind of like the the
• 2:48:17
  domestic violence in the beginning of twin dilemma.
• 2:48:21
  If you just take those first episodes out whole rest, it's a
• 2:48:23
  much easier ride after that. It's just a kind of an
• 2:48:27
  unfortunate first impression you get in very different ways,
• 2:48:29
  because I think time of the running is kind of an antidote
• 2:48:33
  to the twin dilemma, you know, even down to the very the last
• 2:48:37
  lines. I just think it's just, it's
• 2:48:39
  just a bad way to introduce a new Doctor on an unfamiliar
• 2:48:44
  alien planet with straight range people doing odd things that
• 2:48:48
  have no have no meat behind them.
• 2:48:53
  Because the other stories you've got, you know, just as a as a
• 2:48:56
  kid in the UK, you've got shitty.
• 2:49:00
  Blocks of flats which we all knew.
• 2:49:04
  Holiday. Camps, which we were a lot.
• 2:49:05
  Of them are very familiar with and being being taken by your
• 2:49:08
  mum around the freezer section. You know, those are all you
• 2:49:12
  know, those are all very familiar human things that
• 2:49:15
  Doctor Who did the rest of the season because this is an
• 2:49:17
  inherited 6th Doctor script. I think it would be really good
• 2:49:20
  6th Doctor story. Well, I also did notice I think
• 2:49:23
  that I think Sylvester McCoy really pulls off the 6th doctor
• 2:49:27
  costume the way Colin can't because on Colin it's a very
• 2:49:31
  close deliberately a close fit. But because Sylvester McCoy is a
• 2:49:36
  he's a little clown with dark hair as well.
• 2:49:40
  He just, he just carries the 6th Doctor costume in a way that
• 2:49:43
  doesn't kind of kill his performance as it kind of does
• 2:49:46
  unfortunately with with Colin. But do you think do?
• 2:49:50
  You think Colin? Is more a more adept wordsmith
• 2:49:55
  to handle Pip and Jane dialogue as well.
• 2:49:57
  Because I just think in Terra the verve was a mark of the
• 2:49:59
  brony. Those lines just trip off his
• 2:50:01
  thumb beautifully, whereas McCoy stumbles a lot.
• 2:50:04
  Probably, but, but also because you're introducing.
• 2:50:06
  It's it's all the stuff from it's it's a bit like introducing
• 2:50:10
  the 4th Doctor and robot in the it's it's it's he a new Doctor
• 2:50:15
  essentially watched an episode of the previous doctors show.
• 2:50:19
  But it's all the stuff that's kind of wrong with the sick
• 2:50:21
  doctor era. I think it's not as a as a as an
• 2:50:25
  introduction to seven. It's not a good one, but I like
• 2:50:29
  a lot of the stuff in it oddly, but they're not all they're not
• 2:50:36
  all in aided much. Yeah, but I'm always surprised
• 2:50:40
  how? I don't hate it, it's just that
• 2:50:44
  first. Episode is a that first episode
• 2:50:46
  is a really tough watch, but it's it's definitely a bin.
• 2:50:50
  It's an undeniable bin. I I couldn't formulate an
• 2:50:53
  argument that I'd believe to let it through.
• 2:50:57
  I'd be like Christmas. Could you bin?
• 2:50:59
  Time and the Rani on Christmas Day because now no matter what
• 2:51:04
  Toby says to us, and I'm assuming this is going to be the
• 2:51:06
  other one, this is bottom two list, this is being binned.
• 2:51:12
  But Toby, Wanda Ventham, what's your opinion on that?
• 2:51:15
  I think I think Wanda Ventham is a marvellous.
• 2:51:17
  Actress and and in fact, I think he's the only person giving a a
• 2:51:21
  performance that you would nobody else's performance in
• 2:51:25
  this would be allowed in any other television program.
• 2:51:28
  I think Wanda Ventham would would be would be, you know,
• 2:51:31
  you, you put what she does in this in a in a 9:00 BBC drama
• 2:51:35
  and you'd go, yeah, that's that's perfectly acceptable.
• 2:51:37
  That's how that's how real real beings behave.
• 2:51:41
  And I think she is a touch of class.
• 2:51:43
  But he's it's it's it's almost you almost sort of think, Oh,
• 2:51:47
  spay, your dignity wonder just just just just just be bad like
• 2:51:51
  everybody else. I What about Donald Pickering?
• 2:51:55
  Donald. Pickering is I think.
• 2:51:57
  Doing his best to hide the fact that he's embarrassed about
• 2:52:01
  being there. And I suspect that Wander and
• 2:52:03
  Donald, who I know were very good friends, were probably
• 2:52:05
  leaning against it. Well, they probably couldn't
• 2:52:07
  lean against the flat because it would fall over, but they were
• 2:52:10
  probably hanging around. So I go.
• 2:52:12
  Haven't we put in Doctor Who before, darling?
• 2:52:14
  Yes, yes. We were in one with Patrick
• 2:52:16
  Troughton. What was that?
• 2:52:17
  Oh, yes, it was. Oh, yes.
• 2:52:18
  I was a baddie alien, wasn't I? I was cold and chilling in that.
• 2:52:21
  I I think I'm going to I'm going to do bored in this one.
• 2:52:24
  What about you? Yes.
• 2:52:25
  Oh, well, yes, I know it was, it was, it was, it was sort of
• 2:52:28
  scary and Moody, that one, wasn't it?
• 2:52:29
  And body horror and everything. Yes, this one's got a panto bat,
• 2:52:34
  but I look I, I, I, I watched this because I'm a professional
• 2:52:41
  and I actually found I, I rather enjoyed it and look, I enjoy
• 2:52:48
  panto. Panto is a is is an art.
• 2:52:50
  I admire people who do it is that the hardest working actors
• 2:52:55
  in the country are doing panto because it's exhausting and you
• 2:52:58
  have to be multi talented and you have to, you know, picture
• 2:53:02
  performance that works for adults and kids.
• 2:53:04
  It's it's a skill. I saw Scorby play King Rat, and
• 2:53:07
  I'm very happy to have done so. But in the same way that I like,
• 2:53:13
  you know, I like spaghetti Bolognese, but I I would be
• 2:53:16
  annoyed if an episode of Doctor Who was spaghetti bolognese.
• 2:53:18
  I like oral pleasure, but please don't stick it in.
• 2:53:21
  Don't stick it in the middle of Nightmare of Eden.
• 2:53:23
  Thank you very much. Stick around for Stephen Moffes,
• 2:53:26
  you will. Not be disappointed, all right.
• 2:53:28
  Well, no. And indeed.
• 2:53:29
  Well, and actually I have to say yes Sir, I do like quite a saucy
• 2:53:32
  joke, but I don't like him in Doctor Who.
• 2:53:35
  However, I, I would say, and I'm before I say anything else, but
• 2:53:39
  you know, I, I, I, when you asked me, you didn't know my
• 2:53:41
  view of this season. And it was definitely what I
• 2:53:44
  would say without thinking if you said what's you were season
• 2:53:46
  of Doctor Who, I'd say 24. What are your stories?
• 2:53:49
  I'd, I'd say, and, and it's actually been lovely for me that
• 2:53:53
  watching these in the past couple of days, I enjoyed
• 2:53:56
  watching them all. And I am, I am happy that I have
• 2:54:00
  got to, because I've spent a lot of my time struggling to be.
• 2:54:04
  So. You know, I, I think a lot of us
• 2:54:05
  as Doctor Who fans, you know, we, we throw ourselves into
• 2:54:07
  Doctor Who because we find life difficult to navigate.
• 2:54:10
  And, and I spent a lot of my life being too angry with things
• 2:54:13
  in Doctor Who that I don't like and more angry than is necessary
• 2:54:16
  because Doctor Who isn't important yet paradoxically,
• 2:54:19
  it's also the most important thing in my life.
• 2:54:21
  But but also it's so startlingly unimportant that it's not worth
• 2:54:25
  getting cross about when I see people getting cross on the
• 2:54:28
  Internet about this aspect of Doctor Who, that aspect of
• 2:54:30
  Doctor Who, you don't have to watch that one or like that one.
• 2:54:33
  So, you know, the the Doctor Who that I don't like isn't going to
• 2:54:35
  spoil my enjoyment of the rest of Doctor Who that especially if
• 2:54:39
  it's historical Doctor Who. But you know, I was furious with
• 2:54:42
  a lot of this at the time. And I I I've had a lovely couple
• 2:54:44
  of days, which gives me hope that Joe when you asked me in 25
• 2:54:47
  years time to talk about Rogue, I might be cock a hoop with joy
• 2:54:50
  about it, but there's going to be have to be a fuck of a lot of
• 2:54:53
  water under the bridge. But anyway, you'll have to
• 2:54:56
  convince me on that one as well. All right.
• 2:54:59
  Well, yeah. I mean, how old God I will.
• 2:55:01
  I mean, I will be 75. Perhaps I would.
• 2:55:03
  Perhaps things won't matter to me so much anymore.
• 2:55:05
  A less convincing gay. Romance you will never see on
• 2:55:09
  television and and. Well, with there's, there's a
• 2:55:14
  lot that's not very convincing in in time in the running, but a
• 2:55:18
  lot of what I did like about it was that sort of in the same way
• 2:55:21
  that, you know, Airplane is one of my favorite films because it
• 2:55:23
  is a spoof of of how those movies are done.
• 2:55:27
  And there's a certain performance style.
• 2:55:29
  And the reason it's good is because the actors aren't trying
• 2:55:31
  to be funny, although they know that they are, but they're
• 2:55:33
  playing it ostensibly straight. Unfortunately, a lot of the
• 2:55:36
  performances in time and there are like that, but they're not
• 2:55:38
  trying to be fun. You know, we, we, we put the
• 2:55:42
  campery up upon it in a way. So in this where the jokes and
• 2:55:46
  the humor and the the the the sort of anarchic, almost meta
• 2:55:50
  energy occasionally of some of the other stories in this season
• 2:55:53
  work because they're supposed to here.
• 2:55:55
  I don't think anyone's trying to be funny.
• 2:55:57
  And I and I and I feel a bit bad because a lot of my very
• 2:56:00
  humorous, very joie de vivre gay friends think this is absolutely
• 2:56:04
  marvellous because it's huge. But This is why a lot of people
• 2:56:07
  hate you and want you killed, Joe.
• 2:56:08
  This is this is because this is because this is it's it's it's
• 2:56:14
  we, we, we, we, you know, I think we impose, we, we get joy
• 2:56:19
  out of it, but the joy wasn't there from the makers.
• 2:56:23
  Do you know what I sure you don't think, Kate?
• 2:56:27
  O'mara's asides? Well, the camera asked.
• 2:56:29
  But not supposed to be funny. No, that's supposed to be funny.
• 2:56:32
  And Kate? O'Mara is a class act, but
• 2:56:35
  there's a dissonance here which isn't Doctor Who dissonance.
• 2:56:37
  At its best, it's a it's a really peculiar thing.
• 2:56:40
  What struck me actually watching it this time is the run is
• 2:56:43
  always sold to us as this well, she's not evil like the Master.
• 2:56:46
  She's an amoral scientist, which is a good conception for a
• 2:56:48
  Doctor Who character to go. It's it's somebody for whom the
• 2:56:51
  Doctor was just in the way, rather than somebody she
• 2:56:53
  deliberately wants to kill. He says she's horrible son, kind
• 2:56:57
  of, you know, touches the doctor on the shoulder and tries to
• 2:57:00
  comfort him after he's done a pratfall.
• 2:57:02
  And she's like, right, well, you're gonna die now and then
• 2:57:06
  somebody else, I think, I think. And what is it?
• 2:57:08
  Somebody's escaped. So she goes, well, I'm just
• 2:57:10
  gonna randomly pick off some innocent civilians with my with
• 2:57:14
  with my kid. She's, I mean, she's does some
• 2:57:16
  things that are nastier than some really, really nasty Doctor
• 2:57:19
  Who villains. And yet she's she's playing it
• 2:57:22
  like she's but you know, she's, I mean, I, I love Katie Murray.
• 2:57:26
  She's a true pro. We don't make actresses like
• 2:57:28
  that anymore. But she's also giving a sort of
• 2:57:30
  performance that exists in this weird time bubble.
• 2:57:33
  I mean, I've never admired anybody more than she was at the
• 2:57:37
  one of it was the other fifty. I think it was the 50th
• 2:57:39
  anniversary at the Expo arena and she'd had a stroke and she
• 2:57:43
  was a bit deaf. And yet she was dressed like a
• 2:57:46
  Space Dometrix lesbian. And I absolutely loved her for
• 2:57:49
  it. And I admire that sort of
• 2:57:51
  effortless glamour that a certain type of 80s woman had
• 2:57:56
  that that comes from an innate, an, an innate possession of
• 2:58:01
  that, but also requires a lot of effort and work to, to, to sort
• 2:58:05
  of keep it up. You know, you can't just slip
• 2:58:07
  into that stuff. And, and, and so I, I'm, I'm, I,
• 2:58:09
  I think Kate O'Mara is Absolutely Fabulous, but it's
• 2:58:14
  fabulous in a way that I, I, I, you know.
• 2:58:18
  Makes. Doctor Who seem a little bit
• 2:58:21
  what people imagine bad Doctor Who to be, even though she's not
• 2:58:24
  doing anything particularly wrong.
• 2:58:27
  I I also sadly think that Sylvester Mccoy's first scene
• 2:58:32
  where he wakes up and does that monologue and turns around and
• 2:58:36
  does the, you know, pantomime, very stagey point and all that
• 2:58:40
  is, I'm afraid, the worst acted scene of any doctor in the
• 2:58:44
  history of Doctor Who is that. And, and it's his first scene
• 2:58:49
  and it culminates with him doing another of these season 24.
• 2:58:53
  Somebody falls and hits their head where they clearly don't
• 2:58:56
  fall and they don't hit their head and the camera captures it
• 2:58:59
  in all its embarrassment. And then they do that again in
• 2:59:01
  Part 4 with Donald Pickering and Bayers.
• 2:59:03
  And it's like, put the camera somewhere else.
• 2:59:05
  And it's a shame because Andrew Morgan, I think he's a good
• 2:59:07
  director and I think he uses the quarry very well.
• 2:59:09
  I think the quarry looks great. Those special effects are good,
• 2:59:13
  but the dial the the real problem with it is again, it
• 2:59:17
  exists in this weird sort of bubble.
• 2:59:19
  If if you'd put some of the scenes in this in the day-to-day
• 2:59:23
  or in something now again a sort of airplane type of film, you
• 2:59:27
  wouldn't have to change a thing about the dialogue.
• 2:59:30
  Some of the dialogue is things like I find your incompetence
• 2:59:37
  more than enough without listening to your puerile
• 2:59:40
  opinions, you know, and that's why you think about you on a
• 2:59:43
  regular. Occasion I find your detachment.
• 2:59:46
  Difficult to understand. It's all it's, it's all people
• 2:59:49
  speaking in a way that nobody has ever spoken.
• 2:59:53
  And what's the best 1 is when the doctor.
• 2:59:55
  Goes ah, hologram as substantial as the Raleigh Scruples
• 3:00:00
  absolutely, although that that scene is.
• 3:00:02
  Actually, well done. I think Bonnie Langford is
• 3:00:03
  brilliant. The way that she walks in a way
• 3:00:05
  that you go. It's something slightly wrong
• 3:00:06
  here and then that effect is simple and nifty.
• 3:00:09
  I do think the location stuff is quite good.
• 3:00:11
  I love the effort has gone into little things like when the
• 3:00:13
  locations run, they don't bend their arms.
• 3:00:15
  You go, OK, go for that. I actually think the location
• 3:00:17
  makeup is not, is not bad and their hair is excellent and,
• 3:00:21
  and, and the bats are an attempt to do something different.
• 3:00:24
  And the idea of having the, you know, the different, the
• 3:00:26
  different viewpoints from the, the eyes, It doesn't quite make
• 3:00:29
  sense. And the scene where the doctor
• 3:00:30
  goes to smash the thing and Kevin Mcculloch's music there is
• 3:00:33
  brilliant. Is, is all pretty good, but it's
• 3:00:35
  I, I find, I find the, the, the, the costume changing scene is
• 3:00:39
  desperately trying to be funny and it's not.
• 3:00:41
  I think it's twee and a bit annoying.
• 3:00:44
  Sylvester's doctor has some good I I.
• 3:00:46
  I like the fact he talks about sad skeleton.
• 3:00:48
  That sort of stuff. Is is really nice that that
• 3:00:50
  plays to his strengths. But the the minute he suggested
• 3:00:54
  playing the spoons they should have either they should have
• 3:00:58
  said get the fuck out of here or they should have drugged him and
• 3:01:02
  and and and and hypnotized him so that he never made such a
• 3:01:05
  suggestion again. What is it on her chest though?
• 3:01:08
  Yes. And.
• 3:01:10
  And should have been executed for that.
• 3:01:13
  There would be no fun in Doctor Who if you.
• 3:01:16
  People were in charge, I as I. Say, taken as Now, you know,
• 3:01:23
  something that I can detach myself from, you know, it's
• 3:01:27
  impact on the show because I have to bear in mind, as I say,
• 3:01:29
  I've had quite a lot of fun with season 24.
• 3:01:31
  But I have to bear in mind being there at the time on what the
• 3:01:34
  show needed to do to the general public, which this season
• 3:01:37
  absolutely did not do. So.
• 3:01:39
  So, you know, I'm aware I can look at it and go, well,
• 3:01:41
  objectively and in terms of, you know, watching it now and all
• 3:01:45
  that sort of thing, I, I, I cannot quite forgive it for
• 3:01:48
  that. And certainly this particular
• 3:01:50
  story, Yeah, I might have I yeah, I might be able to switch
• 3:01:56
  off everything around it and go, well, yeah.
• 3:01:58
  I mean, you know, things for exactly how's my favorite worst
• 3:02:02
  space thing ever, which is when which I which I sort of love,
• 3:02:07
  but it's awful when Mel and Icona hide in a concrete tunnel
• 3:02:11
  that is, you know, there in the quarry and they go, how do we
• 3:02:14
  make this a space concrete tunnel?
• 3:02:17
  Well, you know that gap between the slabs of concrete?
• 3:02:19
  Let's just line that with some tinsel because then it looks
• 3:02:22
  like it comes from space. That to me is time and Irani and
• 3:02:26
  and bad Doctor Who. Did you notice that I put a
• 3:02:29
  little foil? Over the rocks outside the
• 3:02:31
  centre of it's it's, it's all of.
• 3:02:34
  That sort of stuff. And you go, I mean, really.
• 3:02:37
  Well, it's a shame because the model work is very nice.
• 3:02:38
  I think the pink sky is an attempt to do something
• 3:02:41
  different. Yeah, as I say, I think wonder
• 3:02:46
  Venthem is is is good, but I I think that's about as far as it
• 3:02:49
  goes. And I think this for for where?
• 3:02:51
  For it's imp for its import in the show history is a big
• 3:02:56
  turning point of the show. I think it's unforgivable and I
• 3:02:59
  would, even though I've enjoyed doing this and this is what is
• 3:03:02
  gorgeous about doing this podcast and gorgeous that we can
• 3:03:04
  do as fans where we reassess stuff.
• 3:03:07
  And also that even something I, I don't like madly is still
• 3:03:12
  something I can watch and enjoy because it's Doctor Who.
• 3:03:14
  And Doctor Who makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
• 3:03:17
  But I, I think, and having talked and listened and I was
• 3:03:20
  batting back and forth between Dragon Fire and Time and Irani,
• 3:03:24
  but I, I, I think I could probably comfortably label this
• 3:03:28
  as the worst Doctor Who story of all time.
• 3:03:32
  So I will put it in the bin. You 3 have just listed.
• 3:03:37
  All the things that make me want to go and watch this.
• 3:03:39
  Immediately we finish this call. Do you know I'm going to touch
• 3:03:43
  my my wrist thing now and set out a killer insect on you all
• 3:03:49
  when they set out the killer insects?
• 3:03:51
  They then have to dub it because they haven't shot it in the city
• 3:03:53
  and they dub it over and it's not kill, it's not Mark I.
• 3:03:57
  Think the intention. Is that it's supposed to be
• 3:03:59
  Icona say that it's not Mark Green street.
• 3:04:01
  I suspect it's probably Peter Dudnham, but it's it's you know
• 3:04:03
  they they've suddenly they've suddenly thrown a couple of
• 3:04:06
  lines of because they've clearly watched it and gone.
• 3:04:07
  This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever the way that Let's
• 3:04:11
  Rescue it post. Gamely.
• 3:04:13
  Tries to make this dialogue. Sound naturalistic?
• 3:04:15
  It's just one of the greatest pleasures when she says the line
• 3:04:19
  selective retribution will keep these dissidents to heel.
• 3:04:23
  Like she just says it as if she's saying I'm going to down
• 3:04:26
  the shops to do, you know, my groceries.
• 3:04:29
  She she's, she's magic. But it it it's but, but, but,
• 3:04:34
  but it's she's she's a relic of a sort of almost a different, a
• 3:04:38
  different way of doing things that I think shame sort of
• 3:04:42
  modern science fiction shouldn't be doing, you know, Well, in the
• 3:04:45
  words of the Ronnie. I'm overwhelmed.
• 3:04:48
  Let's move on to round two. Yes, here we are, 3 1/2 hours
• 3:04:53
  later into round two. Fortunately, with only two
• 3:04:57
  stories going through Paradise Towers and Delta and the
• 3:05:00
  Bannermen, it's going to be very, very short.
• 3:05:04
  So kick in with the camp music. I'm going to go around each one
• 3:05:09
  of you now and. Ask you to choose a favorite of
• 3:05:12
  these two stories and first of all I am going to go to.
• 3:05:19
  Rob. You could.
• 3:05:21
  You could see that I. You really.
• 3:05:23
  I really didn't want you to ask me first, didn't you?
• 3:05:26
  That's why you've come to me first.
• 3:05:28
  You were, sort of. Yeah, you were watching.
• 3:05:30
  Time in the Ronnie. Paradise Towers or Delphin the.
• 3:05:34
  Bannerman, my God. OK, well here's my here's my.
• 3:05:43
  Thinking Deltran. Deltran, Bannerman.
• 3:05:48
  Is a really sweet, fun, light adventure.
• 3:05:53
  With with some. Mass murder and implied genocide
• 3:05:55
  in it. But it's, it's, it's, it's very
• 3:05:59
  laudable for being that Paradise Towers fails.
• 3:06:04
  To be everything, I think. It could be, but it's I, I
• 3:06:08
  perpetually will it to, to be what I what I want it to be.
• 3:06:12
  But Deltra and the Banner Man succeeds in what it's trying to
• 3:06:17
  be. Even though it has rough edges,
• 3:06:19
  Even even though I'd like to have a bigger budget, Even
• 3:06:22
  though I can't think it would work better if Deltra and Billy,
• 3:06:25
  if I believe that they were in love.
• 3:06:27
  But it's a hell of a lot close to succeeding.
• 3:06:30
  However, do I then do I value what Delta and the Bannerman
• 3:06:34
  succeeds in being more than I value what Paradise Towers
• 3:06:39
  could, should try to be? Good question and I.
• 3:06:43
  Think my. Answer.
• 3:06:46
  Well. I'm going to go with Paradise.
• 3:06:48
  Towers is the one I'd let through for that.
• 3:06:52
  Reason. Even though it might not be the
• 3:06:56
  most worthy, but it might be the most ambitious in a way that I
• 3:07:00
  appreciate. Paris Towers want to keep
• 3:07:03
  things. Interesting.
• 3:07:05
  I am going to choose Delta and the Banner Men.
• 3:07:08
  It's probably my second favorite Sylvester McCoy story because I
• 3:07:12
  think it does commit to what it's doing wholeheartedly and
• 3:07:16
  it's just a ray of sunshine. I feel good every time I watch
• 3:07:19
  it. And what more can I ask from
• 3:07:21
  Doctor Who? Let's go across to Mikey.
• 3:07:28
  Well, Joe, I've loved these stories ever since I spent
• 3:07:34
  pretty much all of my student loan at Aberystwyth University
• 3:07:39
  with BBC Video and I. Literally ordered.
• 3:07:44
  About 70 tapes and they all arrived in the in my student
• 3:07:49
  accommodation. And the ones that were part of
• 3:07:51
  that consignment are in my DNA, like the really, really matter
• 3:07:56
  to me. I wasn't doing very well with
• 3:07:58
  the girls down the student union, but I could go home to
• 3:08:01
  some mark of the Rani, you know, That's probably why.
• 3:08:06
  You weren't doing so. Well, with the girls, correct.
• 3:08:07
  Yeah, OK. But.
• 3:08:09
  I would those. 2. Stories.
• 3:08:11
  I would say that the one that is most in my bones is Paradise
• 3:08:17
  Towers. There's something about
• 3:08:20
  paradise. Towers that I bounce against and
• 3:08:25
  I remember so many more moments than I would Delta and the
• 3:08:31
  Bannerman. Having said that, I'd also.
• 3:08:35
  Like to take this opportunity to wind.
• 3:08:39
  Back on my. Terrible previous comments about
• 3:08:42
  National Treasure Wand of Anthem.
• 3:08:47
  Who especially? Taught in Toby's presence, who
• 3:08:51
  most nights is in bed with me whispering in my ear, I listen
• 3:08:56
  to his DVD commentaries to go to bed.
• 3:08:58
  How many people do you imagine go to bed?
• 3:09:00
  With Toby We go to bed with Toby and for.
• 3:09:03
  Me to say such things, I'm going to.
• 3:09:06
  Order the complete box. Set of UFO by way of recompense
• 3:09:13
  Toby and I will I will I will defer back to you Joe and then
• 3:09:17
  on to Toby it's a. Paradise Towers, yeah.
• 3:09:21
  Yes, please. Oh dear.
• 3:09:23
  So if you go 1. Way Toby.
• 3:09:24
  It's a tie and if you go the other it's a clean slate for
• 3:09:28
  Paradise Towers I wish I'd been to bed with.
• 3:09:31
  As many people who seem to go to bed with me these days, have you
• 3:09:35
  noticed how many blokes it is as well?
• 3:09:37
  Well, yeah. Take what I'm offered.
• 3:09:43
  Inch I mean, Paradise Towers means so much to me, but it's a,
• 3:09:47
  it's a, it's a peculiar one because I, as I, as I outlined,
• 3:09:52
  I, I, I transcribed it. I was obsessed with it.
• 3:09:55
  I watched it over and over again.
• 3:09:56
  And then I kind of in the same way that I played with my Star
• 3:10:00
  Wars figures quite obsessively. And then one day I lay them all
• 3:10:03
  out and I put them with their respective guns and I sort of, I
• 3:10:06
  think I even took photographs of them.
• 3:10:09
  And then the dog came. In and sort of messed them up.
• 3:10:11
  And, and, and I was a bit annoyed by that.
• 3:10:12
  So then I'm sort of scribbling what and put them in a box and I
• 3:10:15
  never played with them again. It was really weird.
• 3:10:17
  It was kind of that was, yeah. And Paradise Towers.
• 3:10:19
  I, I kind of did that. So it was.
• 3:10:20
  And, and then latterly I've been like, well, I'll, I'll hold out
• 3:10:24
  in order to rediscover it as the one having been so familiar with
• 3:10:28
  and see what. And that's what I did, did for
• 3:10:29
  this. And I'd expected, you know, me
• 3:10:33
  to have been blinkered by the fact that it was a, a brave new
• 3:10:36
  world. And, and I, and I thought it all
• 3:10:40
  the bits that were that had worked about it before had
• 3:10:42
  worked. I love this discussion about it,
• 3:10:45
  throwing up different ways of doing it, which shows what an
• 3:10:47
  ambitious and interesting idea it is well rendered.
• 3:10:52
  And there was loads of stuff we could have talked about that we
• 3:10:54
  didn't. That shows that what a rich idea
• 3:10:56
  it is. And I don't even think it's as
• 3:10:57
  bad a production as, as, as history gives us those that I
• 3:11:00
  think those sets are actually really, really good and, and,
• 3:11:03
  and, and some aspects of it are very well judged.
• 3:11:08
  In Delta and the band, I mean, I wasn't so keen.
• 3:11:10
  On at the time, but. That's more ambitious.
• 3:11:14
  Than I thought it was and and and and I.
• 3:11:19
  And I and I think. In my head I would always have.
• 3:11:23
  I would have always had Paradise Towers out on top just because
• 3:11:26
  of the impact it had on me at the time.
• 3:11:30
  But but actually Doctor Who. Watching is sometimes about
• 3:11:33
  reassessing things and I love some stories I didn't used to
• 3:11:36
  love and some stories I used to love and I can see the floors of
• 3:11:39
  and and and if I had to watch another of these adventures
• 3:11:42
  again tomorrow, I would watch Delta.
• 3:11:45
  And the Bannerman because. I think it is more cohesive.
• 3:11:47
  It is more cohesive. The three-part structure works.
• 3:11:50
  I think it's fun, but I think it's fun without being too
• 3:11:53
  disposable because it's got the stuff about, you know, the, the
• 3:11:57
  life cycle of the bees and, and the nostalgia kick, which I
• 3:12:00
  think is so important to us, the Doctor Who fans.
• 3:12:01
  That 50s nostalgia thing I think is very sweet.
• 3:12:04
  It's sweet. It's kind, it's a sort of, it's,
• 3:12:07
  it's infused with a sort of benevolent joy and a sort of
• 3:12:12
  almost an innocent. That's what I like about it.
• 3:12:14
  The, the, the, the, it's sort of approach to love as well.
• 3:12:16
  It's kind of innocent and I don't mind, you know, sex
• 3:12:20
  rearing its ugly headed Doctor Who if it if it has a sort of
• 3:12:23
  innocent fairy tale quality to it.
• 3:12:26
  So I'm not, you know, I'm not a total puritan when it comes to
• 3:12:29
  affairs of the heart in Doctor Who.
• 3:12:31
  But I think they have to have a kind of distancing from the, the
• 3:12:35
  cut and thrust and the grinding of the the, the physical side of
• 3:12:39
  things because just because maybe that's.
• 3:12:42
  Just. Because.
• 3:12:43
  Just because. Just because I don't have to,
• 3:12:45
  you know, So I yes, please, I am going to keep with much love.
• 3:12:51
  To both of the stories. I'm going to make life
• 3:12:53
  difficult, Joe. I'm going to keep Delta and the
• 3:12:56
  banner. That's my favorite story of
• 3:12:59
  season 24 and definitely the one that if I had to watch just one
• 3:13:02
  of the stories of this season, I would watch.
• 3:13:06
  Wow. We seem to have reached an
• 3:13:08
  impasse. Can I ask?
• 3:13:11
  Is there a? Worm for turning on this call.
• 3:13:16
  Oh yeah, definitely me. I'm.
• 3:13:19
  I'm leaky. Yeah, because if no one.
• 3:13:25
  Does I? Have just thought of a reason
• 3:13:27
  why I could defer to Paradise Towers.
• 3:13:30
  See if you can spot the basil. I just love that line I.
• 3:13:35
  Would argue. Basil is the wrong.
• 3:13:37
  Choice of herb to be cooking. Unless it's a tomato based
• 3:13:39
  sauce. I don't know what she's using.
• 3:13:41
  Bonnie Langford before, I mean. If you.
• 3:13:45
  Were going to stuff the herb under Bonnie Langford's skin.
• 3:13:47
  If you were to roaster, I think Rosemary would be a good choice.
• 3:13:51
  Sage, I think basil would not stand that sort of cooking.
• 3:13:54
  If they're pan frying, maybe. But then you'd as I say, you'd
• 3:13:58
  really probably need a tomato based sauce.
• 3:13:59
  You'd need to be so the basil to bring out the foot.
• 3:14:03
  It's a sort of the flavour of the vegetables really.
• 3:14:05
  And and with and with and certainly if human, if human
• 3:14:08
  meat tastes like pork or chicken, I would I would basil
• 3:14:12
  would be quite low on my list of herbs to use.
• 3:14:14
  So you sort it out. Wyatt killed the.
• 3:14:17
  Joke now? Yeah.
• 3:14:19
  Rob, are you for turning? Well, yeah, I am.
• 3:14:22
  Turning. Potentially because I, I
• 3:14:24
  Paradise Towers is one that calls to me for what it isn't
• 3:14:29
  quite. Whereas Delta and the bannermen
• 3:14:33
  is what it is, what it's trying to be and what it and what it's
• 3:14:36
  trying to be what it is, is a glorious, wonderful, romantic,
• 3:14:40
  innocent adventure. So I could.
• 3:14:44
  Yeah. So I could quite easily flip
• 3:14:46
  what happens if I don't? Well, then we just stay on this.
• 3:14:49
  Call till somebody changes it. No I'll I'll kick both of them
• 3:14:53
  through. But it is nice to have a winner.
• 3:14:56
  Or in that case, let me in. That case I will.
• 3:14:58
  I will happily or go what paradise powers could have been,
• 3:15:05
  but what dealt from the battleground is yeah, that's
• 3:15:09
  really not a difficult switch to make and just because.
• 3:15:13
  Of the very. Fact that my.
• 3:15:14
  Nemesis Michael Storm declared Paradox as I dealt with the
• 3:15:18
  Bannerman, the worst Doctor Who story of all time.
• 3:15:22
  Merry Christmas to me. Merry Christmas, Joe.
• 3:15:26
  Well. A very worthy winner.
• 3:15:28
  I think we, I think we can all sort of acknowledge there was a,
• 3:15:31
  a wave of innovation sweeping through Doctor Who at this
• 3:15:35
  point, right? And if it wasn't there, we're
• 3:15:37
  going in the right direction, Andrew.
• 3:15:40
  Andrew Cartmel is. As I say, is, is is ambitious.
• 3:15:45
  He's sort of, he's perceptive. I get slightly ahead of his
• 3:15:48
  time. Perhaps I'm not not sure the
• 3:15:51
  world was ready for season 24, but it was certainly getting
• 3:15:54
  ready for for 25 and and and 26 and, and certainly you can't
• 3:15:59
  doubt his commitment. And, and Mikey, I think you
• 3:16:02
  mentioned it bring bringing in new writers, irrespective of the
• 3:16:06
  what, what creative impact that has has just from a, just from a
• 3:16:11
  level of principle and a level of, you know, keeping the
• 3:16:14
  landscape of television alive and and and and and and shaking
• 3:16:19
  up the BBC ship and all of that sort of thing.
• 3:16:22
  I, I think Andrew Cartmel is, is is is one of the show's great
• 3:16:28
  visionaries. Actually, I'm, I and I didn't
• 3:16:31
  realize it at the time. I, I, you know, I was crossed
• 3:16:33
  with happiness, betrayal. I didn't quite get what was
• 3:16:35
  going and all the and which which is interesting because I,
• 3:16:39
  I was the target audience. So, but but I'm, I'm prepared to
• 3:16:43
  admit that that was that was probably my fault.
• 3:16:45
  Not not it's but who, but who knows?
• 3:16:49
  But I I think, yeah, I and and and and and, you know, that the
• 3:16:54
  first flashes of that are in this season, which seen as a
• 3:16:58
  sort of work in progress is is, you know, obviously a stage.
• 3:17:03
  In in the show. 'S evolution.
• 3:17:05
  But that said, I'm, I'm trying not to feel too guilty for being
• 3:17:08
  down on season 24 because being there at the time and knowing
• 3:17:12
  how the view the show was seen by the public, I have to because
• 3:17:16
  I was feeling really guilty during a lot of this because I
• 3:17:18
  was not disagreeing with most of the nice things people were
• 3:17:21
  saying. I, I do have to have in.
• 3:17:23
  I do have to bear in mind that that at the time, this being,
• 3:17:27
  being, being the Doctor Who fan in school, it was, was hard.
• 3:17:31
  It was hard. I can't even imagine going to
• 3:17:33
  school. After time in the Raleigh
• 3:17:36
  Episode 1 was broadcast. You must have had your head hug
• 3:17:40
  in shame. Well, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm.
• 3:17:43
  Yeah, you've, you've, you've, you've seen the way I conduct
• 3:17:46
  myself. It's Doctor Who's fault I bear.
• 3:17:49
  I bear the scars. But it's such a, it's such a
• 3:17:53
  tragedy. That when it comes out fully
• 3:17:55
  formed by remembrance of the Daleks, people aren't there for
• 3:18:01
  it. It's such an absolute tragedy.
• 3:18:04
  We've all got to have that first girlfriend to get to that second
• 3:18:07
  girlfriend. I had to go through Lisa Pimling
• 3:18:10
  to get to Debbie Gilding. You know, you have to.
• 3:18:14
  But nobody was, nobody saw it. It's just so.
• 3:18:19
  Tragic. I think it was already too late
• 3:18:21
  then anyway because. It was a classic case of
• 3:18:23
  mismanagement by the BBCI. Don't you know, we we can blame.
• 3:18:27
  I mean, you know, the Jonathan Turner comes in for a certain
• 3:18:31
  amount of deserved stick, but also he kept the show going as
• 3:18:35
  well and was devoted to Doctor Who and yeah, or at he was show
• 3:18:39
  busy and convention oriented. And then there was the other
• 3:18:42
  stuff that actually is is not important when we're talking
• 3:18:45
  about its impact on the, you know, the the creative decisions
• 3:18:48
  made for the show. But irrespective of that, the
• 3:18:51
  BBC didn't give a shit. And that's criminal when you're
• 3:18:56
  a public service broadcaster that has to use the modern
• 3:19:00
  parlance, which is horrible. But it's useful that a brand
• 3:19:04
  that is, has such worldwide recognition and you neglect it
• 3:19:09
  and actually actively undermine it, then you, you should hang
• 3:19:14
  your head in shame, you know, and especially as there were
• 3:19:16
  creative forces there who were battling for it and battling for
• 3:19:21
  it to be a show of serious intent and much imagination.
• 3:19:25
  And you're there undermining it or underselling it.
• 3:19:28
  And that's mismanagement of a public service broadcaster,
• 3:19:31
  which doesn't have, you know, the pressures of, of, of
• 3:19:37
  commercialization to, to worry about.
• 3:19:39
  So should be absolutely whenever I work for the BBCI know I'm
• 3:19:44
  working with public money. So I have a duty to produce, you
• 3:19:48
  know, the, the, the. Very best.
• 3:19:50
  And I think everyone who works at the BBC should have that
• 3:19:53
  attitude that this is the public's money and to justify a
• 3:19:56
  public service broadcaster which is a vital part of our nation's
• 3:20:00
  identity. You don't take that for granted.
• 3:20:03
  You actually you anything that the.
• 3:20:06
  BBC. Produces should be done with
• 3:20:09
  absolute commitment, and that includes handling the things
• 3:20:14
  that you have with, with, with respect and, and trying to make
• 3:20:20
  the best of them. And, and Doctor Who was at at
• 3:20:22
  worst, neglected by the management and, and no, well, at
• 3:20:27
  best neglected and at worst actively scuppered.
• 3:20:30
  And I think, I think that's shameful.
• 3:20:33
  And yet. You know, picking a story from
• 3:20:36
  each season, Dara and the Bannermen, Great show in the
• 3:20:38
  Galaxy, Ghost Light, those sort of stories of that quality
• 3:20:43
  emerged from this period. I do think it's to both Andrew
• 3:20:46
  Carmel and John Nathan Turner's credit, J&T was pulling in great
• 3:20:52
  actors for 24. You know, Richard Breyers, Wanda
• 3:20:55
  Ventum, Don Henderson, Edward. Peel.
• 3:20:58
  You know, he wasn't slumming it. He was still trying to get the
• 3:21:01
  best and then delivered possibly the best two final seasons of,
• 3:21:06
  you know, of Doctor Who. Yeah.
• 3:21:09
  The step up to remembrance. Of the Daleks is astonishing.
• 3:21:13
  Yeah. And more importantly, can I just
• 3:21:16
  check that my very last minute attempts to anonymize the names
• 3:21:20
  of those two ex girlfriends who were actual ex girlfriends did
• 3:21:23
  come across as legit. They did.
• 3:21:25
  Yeah. Good.
• 3:21:26
  Good. Because.
• 3:21:26
  I'd changed them only. Slightly.
• 3:21:28
  I wonder who Lisa and Debbie were?
• 3:21:29
  But the Lisa and Debbie is true. But I.
• 3:21:32
  Panicked on the second names because I suddenly realised they
• 3:21:34
  were on my Facebook. And people get involved, don't
• 3:21:36
  they fellas? Thank you so much for, you know,
• 3:21:41
  there are prestige seasons of Doctor Who that you could be
• 3:21:44
  talking about on Christmas Day, and instead you're here with me
• 3:21:47
  talking about season 24. It's been an absolute blast.
• 3:21:52
  Can I ask you all quickly to let everybody know?
• 3:21:55
  I mean, I they know because you've done this before, but
• 3:21:58
  where they can find you online or in your work or on the stage,
• 3:22:04
  what exactly you're doing at the moment and where people can find
• 3:22:07
  you. Let's go across to Mikey.
• 3:22:10
  I'm at Mikey Smith UK. On X and I've just opened one on
• 3:22:13
  that new thing Blue Blue Sky, which is at Mikey Smith UK as
• 3:22:17
  well. You can check out Mikey and who
• 3:22:20
  it covered the new the new series and might be fun for you.
• 3:22:25
  Plus, if you're in the area, you can catch me in Gainsborough
• 3:22:30
  this Christmas in Snow White with Basil Brush and Britain's
• 3:22:34
  Got Talent Stephen Hall running from the 11th of December
• 3:22:39
  through to New Year's Eve at the Trinity Arts Centre in
• 3:22:44
  Gainsborough. I bet you're.
• 3:22:47
  Magic in a panter? I bet you are too, Rob.
• 3:22:53
  Where can we find you? Oh, you can find me.
• 3:22:56
  Still kind of slimming it on X at Mr. Robert Valentine, Ditto
• 3:23:00
  on Blue Sky at Mr. Robert Valentine and Threads as well,
• 3:23:03
  which is basically just, it just transposes all your Instagram
• 3:23:07
  stuff. Anyway, this month we'll have
• 3:23:10
  just come out from Big Finish, the CV and download of Doctor
• 3:23:14
  Who, the stuff of legend, the live show which we did at the
• 3:23:18
  back in September. Can I just say congratulations?
• 3:23:22
  Oh, thanks man. Fucking brilliant afternoon.
• 3:23:25
  Great idea. Just brilliant.
• 3:23:26
  Oh. Thank you, wasn't my idea but.
• 3:23:28
  They they they let me great execution that.
• 3:23:31
  Crowd just S. Up that story.
• 3:23:33
  Oh yeah, it was, it was, it was wonderful.
• 3:23:35
  It was wonderful. And yeah, the audiences were
• 3:23:37
  just terrific. But you can buy that now.
• 3:23:41
  I don't always plug stuff, but there's a royalty situation, so
• 3:23:44
  it would be good for me if you did.
• 3:23:46
  Yeah. Everyone buy it, right?
• 3:23:48
  Everyone. Listens to this right now, gets
• 3:23:50
  a bigfinish.com Toby. Well, I'm.
• 3:23:53
  It's a great pleasure for me to be in your house on Christmas
• 3:23:56
  Day. As I said, I love broadcasting
• 3:23:57
  at Christmas and I have the honor of broadcasting on BBC
• 3:24:00
  Radio for extra presenting the 7th dimension.
• 3:24:03
  And I always get me to do it over Christmas and New Year.
• 3:24:06
  Which means that I get to also make an extra little program
• 3:24:11
  called Absent Friends, where I bid at fond farewell to those
• 3:24:15
  who've contributed to UK sci-fi who have passed away this year.
• 3:24:18
  And that will include in this year's instalment many Doctor
• 3:24:22
  Who people, including Stuart Organ, who plays Basin in Dragon
• 3:24:26
  Fire. And that will be on the weekend
• 3:24:29
  of the, I think it's the 28th and 29th in between Christmas
• 3:24:32
  and New Year. A show I wrote for Radio Four
• 3:24:35
  extra for the 60th anniversary that I wrote and performed
• 3:24:38
  called The A-Z of Surviving. Doctor Who will be out in time
• 3:24:42
  for Christmas. So if you didn't get it in your
• 3:24:44
  stocking, I get it in the the post Christmas sales it brings
• 3:24:48
  together. It's it's good bears.
• 3:24:49
  The legend on the cover presented by Joe Wiley and Toby
• 3:24:53
  Haydock. We're on the same line, but I
• 3:24:55
  suspect we're in a very different pay bracket.
• 3:24:57
  In fact, I didn't even know it was coming out on CD until
• 3:25:00
  somebody had nothing to do with it.
• 3:25:01
  Sent me a link to the Amazon so it shows how important I am and
• 3:25:06
  but anyway, it's quite nice to Wiley and Haydock together at
• 3:25:09
  last. We were once in the queue for
• 3:25:10
  the same lure to gig in in a music venue in Islington, but so
• 3:25:17
  there's that. And also all I want for
• 3:25:19
  Christmas is which I might have got.
• 3:25:21
  By the time you listen to this, which will be Christmas, it's
• 3:25:24
  not Christmas as we record. This is a publication date for
• 3:25:28
  my Equator Mass book, which I suspect will not be prior to
• 3:25:32
  Christmas, but hopefully will follow in the footsteps in the
• 3:25:38
  new year. But it's, I mean, it's as near
• 3:25:42
  as damn it. It's just having that boring
• 3:25:45
  sort of production stuff to it. And it's only the first volume.
• 3:25:47
  It's on the Equator Mass Experiment, but I've worked,
• 3:25:50
  it's a, that's a, a life. I was working on that pretty
• 3:25:54
  much when season 24 was on. So that's, that's and I think I
• 3:25:59
  think season 24 might have aged better than I have, but I'd
• 3:26:02
  really love it if people got that because quite a massive
• 3:26:06
  special and I've put a lot of work into that.
• 3:26:08
  And I have some podcast called Toby Haydock's Time Travels,
• 3:26:12
  which I'd love you to listen to, a mixture of commentaries and
• 3:26:15
  whimsical essays and deep dives into episodes.
• 3:26:18
  And I'll just keep flinging it out there and, and, and, and
• 3:26:21
  hope that there are people out there who like to listen to it.
• 3:26:24
  Thank you very much. Do you know I've got 13?
• 3:26:26
  People now that I've got to buy alternative Christmas presents
• 3:26:30
  for because you're quite a math book was going to be absolutely
• 3:26:34
  perfect for them. It's not my fault.
• 3:26:36
  It's going to be birthday presents for out next year now.
• 3:26:40
  Sorry about that. Oh, I I can't wait.
• 3:26:44
  Can't wait. Yeah, thanks.
• 3:26:47
  I mean, you're the one that gave me the education.
• 3:26:48
  On it in the first place so well I'm I'm.
• 3:26:52
  I'm I'm it's, it'll be a good introduction if you don't know
• 3:26:54
  anything about it. But if you also know what we
• 3:26:57
  don't know about it, a lot of what we don't know about it, you
• 3:27:01
  will know what we do know about it because I found it out.
• 3:27:03
  So I'm you know, it's, it's, it's been a real deep dive.
• 3:27:09
  And also there is, there is material that will be within
• 3:27:12
  those pages that is rather special that, that, that I've
• 3:27:16
  turned up on my delving as well. That I'm, yeah, I'm, it's, it's
• 3:27:20
  taken a long time to come, but if it had been published any
• 3:27:23
  earlier, it wouldn't have some of the stuff in it that's in it.
• 3:27:25
  So I suppose good things come to those who wait.
• 3:27:29
  But yeah, I really, I just want, I just want it to be out because
• 3:27:33
  then it will be, I'm in purgatory right now.
• 3:27:35
  And I, I, I, I can't wait to actually hold it in my hand
• 3:27:40
  well. I have left the.
• 3:27:41
  Girls, it was only the men I wanted tonight.
• 3:27:46
  Can we? Please leave the.
• 3:27:48
  Audience on Christmas Day with a Merry Christmas to everybody on
• 3:27:52
  the count of 3321. Merry Christmas.
• 3:27:59
  Here's. To the future.
• 3:28:01
  Love is the answer. And a Merry Christmas to
• 3:28:04
  everyone at home. Too, and I'll cut it there.
• 3:28:36
  The. The.