Latest / Courage to Reinvent / Episode 2 - 29 Oct 2026 - Where Courage Comes From

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Episode 2 - 29 Oct 2026 - Where Courage Comes From · Courage to Reinvent

• 0:07
  Dawn Russell: What happens when the old script no longer works?
• 0:12
  Dori3: This is"The Courage to Reinvent," a podcast about the moments that ask us to let go of what we know, question who we've been, and find the courage to become something different.
• 0:23
  Dori3: I'm Dori Gonzalez Acevedo, founder and CEO of Procelerx.
• 0:28
  Dawn Russell: And I'm Dawn Russell, co-host and a product leader who works where transformation actually gets built.
• 0:34
  Dawn Russell: Together, we explore candid stories of reinvention with leaders, entrepreneurs, innovators, change makers, and people whose lives have taken an unexpected turn
• 0:45
  Dori3: these aren't polished stories.
• 0:47
  Dori3: They're honest conversations about what happens underneath the transformation, the fear, uncertainty, failure, and makes us want to ask what needs to be let go of to reinvent oneself.
• 0:59
  Dawn Russell: And where does the courage come from?
• 1:09
  Dawn Russell: In episode one, we explored the life experiences where Dori's old script was ever present and where moments of courage and honest reflection would glimmer.
• 1:19
  Dawn Russell: There was the pressure to become a doctor early in her life or Dori's life will never amount to anything.
• 1:26
  Dawn Russell: The decision she made to pivot when she couldn't achieve that goal, diving into a startup that ran on adrenaline.
• 1:33
  Dawn Russell: This role became the life raft for her value and purpose in the world and led to an identity enmeshed in her work persona, one that burned at both ends.
• 1:43
  Dawn Russell: The fail-safe move across the country that changed everything on the surface, the city she was in, her friends, job, and home life.
• 1:52
  Dawn Russell: And the question: how did it change Dori?
• 1:57
  Dawn Russell: And in the last two minutes, something I didn't know after all these years was revealed.
• 2:01
  Dawn Russell: Dori was adopted.
• 2:03
  Dawn Russell: We stopped there on purpose.
• 2:05
  Dawn Russell: Today's focus is the one this show asks every week, and one we have not answered yet.
• 2:11
  Dawn Russell: Where does the courage to reinvent oneself and how they show up in the world actually come from?
• 2:21
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Hi, Dawn
• 2:22
  Dawn Russell: Hey, Dori.
• 2:23
  Dawn Russell: Nice to see you.
• 2:24
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It
• 2:25
  Dawn Russell: Nice to hear you.
• 2:26
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I know, I was spoiled last week in having you in person,
• 2:29
  Dawn Russell: I know, it's incredible.
• 2:31
  Dawn Russell: we didn't really get to talk much because we were doing conferencing with ISPE global 2026, doing a workshop, all kinds of amazing content and people and connections.
• 2:42
  Dawn Russell: But we haven't had a chance to really catch up personally, and it's been a month since you lost Coco.
• 2:48
  Dawn Russell: I wanted to check in and see how you're carrying that today
• 2:52
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: That's interesting.
• 2:52
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: there's still those phantom times where I think I hear her, nails on the floor and jumping out of bed to think I have to let her out.
• 3:03
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And so there's those sorts of things, still processing and just noticing pretty much.
• 3:10
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Also noticing the change in the household, and the, the cats are now adventurous and exploring the rest of the household where they didn't do it before.
• 3:21
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So Yeah
• 3:23
  Dawn Russell: And that was a significant milestone given when Coco came into your life and overall, what she represented to you.
• 3:30
  Dawn Russell: I'm glad to hear that, that you're handling it in a way that's, recognizing the change while also accepting and embracing what that means for you.
• 3:39
  Dawn Russell: And, yeah, this, this week is gonna be interesting in terms of what we talk about'cause we're gonna be diving deeper into courage and where that comes from, and change and all the things influences and impacts.
• 3:52
  Dawn Russell: I was reading your newest book that's coming out here in December.
• 3:56
  Dawn Russell: I got the pre-read.
• 3:57
  Dawn Russell: it's called The Courage to Reinvent, and you open it with a story, where you demonstrated a moment of vulnerability, and this was in a, a very public professional space.
• 4:09
  Dawn Russell: There was a room with 600 people.
• 4:10
  Dawn Russell: Of course, you know the story, but I'll share it so everyone can visualize this with us together.
• 4:15
  Dawn Russell: So here you are, in a room of 600 people, and there was a presentation happening at the time, and the speaker asked who was living with a chronic illness, and yours was the only hand that raised.
• 4:30
  Dawn Russell: In the book, you run the numbers on the room.
• 4:33
  Dawn Russell: Statistically, about 17 people there would've shared your bipolar diagnosis, and about roughly 240 would be living with a chronic condition.
• 4:43
  Dawn Russell: However, yours was the only hand that went up.
• 4:46
  Dawn Russell: Can you tell me what happened next?
• 4:49
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: so in that moment, I was kinda surprised, when he, appeared by my side, in the room and asked if I would join him on stage.
• 4:57
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And I said,"Sure." and walking up to stage, it was a unique situation actually that in that room prior to...
• 5:06
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: This was the end of his talk.
• 5:07
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: In the beginning of his talk, there was an interruption by, a member of PETA, protesting, pet, laboratory experiments and so forth, and it was quite disruptive.
• 5:18
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and also a violation in many ways of the space and the rooms that the conference was, in, right?
• 5:26
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So it was that moment.
• 5:27
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And and then he asked me up on stage and asked me, what chronic illness this was and if I would share and I shared.
• 5:33
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: so that's what happened.
• 5:35
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And, the point of him even asking, which is often similar to what I raise in, in, in rooms, is, what are we doing this for, right?
• 5:45
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And so in a room of professionals of, those that are in pharmaceuticals, he was trying to i-illustrate the point that some of us here in the room are who we're doing the work for.
• 5:55
  Dawn Russell: हम्म
• 5:55
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and that's very much true, right?
• 5:58
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and we often forget that we are also the patient.
• 6:03
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: We are also the one sometimes doing the work to help the patient at the same time.
• 6:09
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and for me, folks came up to me afterwards and saying,"Oh, I can't believe.
• 6:12
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Did you know that?
• 6:13
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Was that staged?
• 6:14
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Was it this and that?" And, it wasn't staged and also it wasn't a question at the end of the day, for me.
• 6:21
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I have come to understand myself enough to know, how I'm going to respond in certain circumstances, what I'm willing to share, what I'm not willing to share.
• 6:32
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I could have said many other things, not just the bipolar in that moment.
• 6:37
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: living with and understanding bipolar now, in my 50s is very different than when I was first diagnosed in my early 20s, right?
• 6:46
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and my journey and my-- what has happened, has given me the opportunity to continue to talk about that, and not everyone is blessed with that, right?
• 6:57
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And so for me, it's passing it, paying it forward, passing it on, and learning from those things.
• 7:03
  Dawn Russell: It's fascinating that so few, in fact only you, had gotten to that point in their life where they were willing to both recognize and acknowledge publicly what troubles them on a daily basis.
• 7:20
  Dawn Russell: chronic is usually accompanied by some limiting factor, whether it's pain or, the inability to achieve or execute something in a way that you want to.
• 7:30
  Dawn Russell: and the fact that you were the only one to raise your hand, and then of course speak to that on top of it.
• 7:35
  Dawn Russell: So this is really the heart of what I wanna, to get into today is courage and what it takes to get there.
• 7:41
  Dawn Russell: and so I wanted to share a little story, that, that contextualizes this in a different way, s- slightly adjacent, and thinking about courage from a historic standpoint.
• 7:53
  Dawn Russell: last year I visited Charleston, South Carolina, which is this incredible, historic district that, is from the early, 1700s and even earlier.
• 8:04
  Dawn Russell: and there were all these houses that dated back to, 1712, well before the Revolutionary War, and I found myself ambling around, and I happened upon this, this 300-year-old park that had been planned.
• 8:17
  Dawn Russell: it had these ancient laurel oak trees that lined it, and it was remarkable.
• 8:23
  Dawn Russell: to think about this idea of someone saying,"Hey, we wanna park here." It was surrounded on three sides by water, and it jutted out, so that you could see, the distance and the harbor and the water beyond.
• 8:35
  Dawn Russell: and right at the junction where the park came to a point at the river, there was this monument, and it was etched in granite with the words courage.
• 8:47
  Dawn Russell: And I remember being transfixed at that time because basically time in general collapsed for me, and I went back and forward and thinking about what courage would've meant that moment when these people, whatever this monument represented was, happening.
• 9:04
  Dawn Russell: I was transported by the architecture, the land, the sea breeze, and I imagined, what, what courage would have taken to, fight and defend for this land back in the day.
• 9:12
  Dawn Russell: It's a very different
• 9:14
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: ん う ん。
• 9:14
  Dawn Russell: of courage than...
• 9:16
  Dawn Russell: But similar, right?
• 9:17
  Dawn Russell: there's a thread there.
• 9:18
  Dawn Russell: what was really fascinating is that, I was troubled at the same time because the courage that was represented by this particular monument was actually in service of a deeply ingrained Southern script, one of subjugation.
• 9:32
  Dawn Russell: I mean, 150 years after the Civil War, the same monument was tagged in 2020 during the Black Lives Matter movement with the word traitor and surrounded by protesters who were demanding the script to be rewritten Right?
• 9:46
  Dawn Russell: And this is like the heart of what we're getting at here is your script and like 600 people, right?
• 9:51
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Да
• 9:51
  Dawn Russell: so it was the first time in a long time I had sank into a deep reflection on the complexity that plays into courage.
• 9:58
  Dawn Russell: and it's my perspective that like passion, courage is a force that fuels decisions, action and inaction, and fundamentally it can be a force for benefit and loss, both at a personal and a societal level.
• 10:10
  Dawn Russell: as I attempt to make sense of what courage means in today's world, I turn to you, Dori, author of this book that's coming out in two months, The Courage to Reinvent.
• 10:20
  Dawn Russell: What do you mean by courage?
• 10:22
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: My courage comes from being unashamed, and learning every day how to be unashamed of my flaws, of who I am, like all of those imperfections, being okay with my imperfections, being curious of, what's around me, like, and giving up that somewhat ego, right?
• 10:50
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's part of the g- giving up the ego, but it's more on giving up the narrative that I've held onto for so long one of the reasons w- when I reflect on that, that moment in, in the conference when I was the only, hand that went up is, yes, we know statistically there was a lot of people in that room with something going on.
• 11:13
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And what holds them back or what, w- that sh- for me, historically was the shame of, and the association and the layering of all of those things.
• 11:27
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: What, does other folks think of those things?
• 11:30
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: How have we portrayed, in this example of bipolar, what does that mean?
• 11:35
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and How it's been portrayed in movie and TV and all of the...
• 11:41
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: there's so many things that have been us on a day-to-day basis of how we have made meaning and how I've made meaning of my life and who I am and how I show up, until I start really doing some of that har- had- started doing that hard work of reflection of that and what does that mean in my life, it, the moment that it transforms, and that's the courage that I seek, every day, right?
• 12:12
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Is, And I do that in service of something too, right?
• 12:16
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And so it's not just this haphazard way of sharing things.
• 12:22
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: That, and y- and I think that, that is often mistaken, and you do see that in some places, right?
• 12:28
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: for...
• 12:30
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: There are so many elements of my life, my journey, where I'm at today that have evolved, that have changed.
• 12:40
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I've also given myself permission to change, right?
• 12:44
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And not to hold that identity to one particular thing or deterministic outcome.
• 12:53
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and for me, it's been creating spaces and places for me to be able to do that.
• 13:00
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And I was just on with my chief core group, right?
• 13:04
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And, one of those things is I'm not, someone to work in a large corporate organization.
• 13:13
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I've learnt that about myself.
• 13:15
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I've learnt that for a long time, right?
• 13:18
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and that's not for everybody, right?
• 13:20
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Entrepreneurial life is not for everybody either, right?
• 13:24
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And, but it's to be willing to sit in that kind of space of almost existential crisis of oneself, right?
• 13:33
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: To be willing to be touched by others and figure out it is and how to say yes and, right?
• 13:42
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: to the circumstance, to the thing, to learning more, to, em- now embracing AI.
• 13:50
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: whatever it is to say yes and, and this is all of who I am at the moment, and I might not get it right, and that's okay.
• 13:57
  Dawn Russell: So there's a lot to unpack there, and I would say that if we think about shame, I'm guessing there's a feeling associated with that because where you were in our last conversation,
• 14:10
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Mhm
• 14:12
  Dawn Russell: let's revisit a bit of that.
• 14:14
  Dawn Russell: You were in a high-powered, startup role, burning at both ends, working hard all day, partying all night.
• 14:21
  Dawn Russell: and your drivers, your script in that was being twice as good, twice as perfect, being seen as enough, right?
• 14:28
  Dawn Russell: and I would imagine at that point in time, sharing that you were bipolar was an absolute shut door.
• 14:35
  Dawn Russell: There was no'Cause that would be you're not perfect, you're not good, you're not enough.
• 14:40
  Dawn Russell: And so here you are, many years later at a conference in front of people that you wanna get work with, people that you want to be able to, have respect you.
• 14:51
  Dawn Russell: And at the same time, through respecting yourself and acknowledging that there's nothing to be ashamed of and accepting what you're, what you, who you are and all that makes you up is the ultimate form.
• 15:06
  Dawn Russell: there's this, this transition, that happened here.
• 15:08
  Dawn Russell: And so is it a feeling?
• 15:10
  Dawn Russell: Is it something Is it Did it creep up?
• 15:13
  Dawn Russell: Did it disable you at one point where you were like,"I can't do it anymore?"
• 15:16
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: yeah.
• 15:17
  Dawn Russell: yeah.
• 15:17
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: a part of my, journey in, in, in cycles, if you will, of, of ups and downs, right?
• 15:23
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Have been, at the bottom, not always at the bottom of the bottom, right?
• 15:28
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: But it's been the moments of, ending a, a, a business partnership or ending a personal relationship or firing a customer, which I've done, right?
• 15:40
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: there's been moments where, There's where do I as an individual versus me as a company versus me as an employer and wanting to take care of my people, right?
• 15:53
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: where is that line?
• 15:54
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and it's not so much a feeling, but more of an action of leadership.
• 16:00
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: is what is that step that needs to be taken that no one else is going to be willing to take, right?
• 16:06
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: What is the words in the room that are not being spoken?
• 16:10
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: in many ways, the hand going up is the voice in the room that no one's wanting to share because it's not the right place and time to share for them in, as individuals.
• 16:23
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: But how do we as a collective kind of hold the space for all of that, it's not so much a leader-follower sort of thing.
• 16:30
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's around a, a more of a servant leader role or how...
• 16:36
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I see it as space and system creation, right?
• 16:39
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And if you look at, even some of the things going on politically, what all of those things, it's how...
• 16:45
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: We're all human, right?
• 16:48
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: are all incredibly fallible, and I think that the part of the, the AI kind of generation here, th-there's a myth, right?
• 16:57
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: In that just using AI, everything's gonna get better or how can we eliminate human in the loop or like all of these things, but like it's still a relationship, right?
• 17:09
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's human relationship with machine.
• 17:11
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's human-human relationship.
• 17:13
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's machine-machine relationship, and any one of those things are quote, unquote"perfect" without the other.
• 17:23
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and so how to do that dance, it's very much a dance.
• 17:28
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I talk about that a lot too, right?
• 17:30
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Like it is a dance.
• 17:31
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's a dualistic dance.
• 17:32
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's, having that dialectical back and forth and, maybe having conversations with folks that an answer is not produced, right?
• 17:43
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And I think that's also, a human characteristic'cause we want an answer, and for many things, there is not a single answer.
• 17:51
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: there is a multitude of answers, and having the capacity to talk in spectrum or gray is a skill
• 18:01
  Dawn Russell: Yeah.
• 18:02
  Dawn Russell: there's definitely an emphasis these days on what did you produce, what did you deliver, and knowing, right?
• 18:09
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Knowing.
• 18:09
  Dawn Russell: I think...
• 18:10
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: ROI,
• 18:11
  Dawn Russell: exactly, and I would say I've made my entire career out of the business of not knowing, and that's why I'm so valuable in or- in any organization, in any relationship, is I approach things with this unresolvable curiosity of I don't know.
• 18:25
  Dawn Russell: And sure, I know, but I don't know, right?
• 18:29
  Dawn Russell: There's...
• 18:29
  Dawn Russell: I can put the pieces together, and the reason I can put them together the way that I put them together is because I embrace not knowing, and I'm one of very few that I meet in the professional world that are like that.
• 18:41
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Yeah.
• 18:42
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And in order to do that, I think for, for me, it's giving up, right?
• 18:46
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's what am I giving up in order to do that?
• 18:48
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And for me, it's been giving up my ego.
• 18:51
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's be- giving up the knowing.
• 18:53
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's giving up, that I can do it all alone.
• 18:57
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: it's giving up that the direction is the singular direct- Like, all of those things, it's just Bringing back to a, an element of play, something that I think we all have desperately missed in some form or fashion.
• 19:16
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And some, like yourselves, going out and playing and, and being with your band and all that.
• 19:21
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So like some have figured out how to bring that play back.
• 19:24
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I bring play back in a different way, right?
• 19:27
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: it, and but all of those things is, what makes us have more courage.
• 19:34
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: The more we're comfortable with who we are and not trying to force a change of who we are, but accepting who we are and working together to figure out, okay, so then how do we solve the problem?
• 19:46
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: How do
• 19:47
  Dawn Russell: S-
• 19:47
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: move forward?
• 19:48
  Dawn Russell: so I wanna point on one particular piece there, which, ties back to the story, but also about relationships and shame and accepting who you are.
• 19:57
  Dawn Russell: So there's a moment where something needs to be said in the room, you feel that it needs to be said.
• 20:03
  Dawn Russell: Through all of your experience and work and recognition, you come into a room, and maybe there's some BS going on
• 20:10
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: My BS meter is flying high.
• 20:12
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Yep.
• 20:14
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: a
• 20:14
  Dawn Russell: and y- we were at the conference and I actually identify with this quite a bit.
• 20:18
  Dawn Russell: I've had it happen at least three times this week, where I'm saying something really with good intent, and it's about pushing a project forward in a way that's actually needed in the moment, and there is this response of either someone's not paying attention, they say that I'm over-escalating or this or that, And I think I heard people, through roundabout saying,"Oh, Dori," They don't say it to your face, but they're like,"Oh, Dori," she's really tough.
• 20:44
  Dawn Russell: she's really," There's all these words that are around how you basically are unwilling to sit amongst the bull and let it fly, right?
• 20:54
  Dawn Russell: there's a kind of a cut-through I highly respect, and I think that's what's made you so successful.
• 20:59
  Dawn Russell: But there's these opinions, right?
• 21:01
  Dawn Russell: There's these responses of trying to break you down or bring you back to that shameful place or make you question whether or not what you're saying is accurate.
• 21:10
  Dawn Russell: And you go through this process of acceptance.
• 21:13
  Dawn Russell: You recognize who you are, and there's a certain peace that, that comes with...
• 21:18
  Dawn Russell: it's n- of course, it's not like it's cemented, right?
• 21:22
  Dawn Russell: I'm imagining that it ebbs and flows.
• 21:24
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and flows
• 21:24
  Dawn Russell: a sense of peace
• 21:25
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: yeah
• 21:26
  Dawn Russell: and, you, you get to that side of it.
• 21:28
  Dawn Russell: But then there's these moments, these perspectives, these opinions.
• 21:32
  Dawn Russell: h- how do you have the courage internally to say,"You know what?" I- I mean, it's not you wanna...
• 21:39
  Dawn Russell: I imagine there's a moment where you listen, you take it in, right?
• 21:43
  Dawn Russell: And you're like,"Okay, is this real?
• 21:45
  Dawn Russell: Is this something I should consider?
• 21:46
  Dawn Russell: Is this an area where I need to work on myself?" And then there's a,"You know what?
• 21:51
  Dawn Russell: That person is off."
• 21:53
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: there's one thing that I've come to know and I forget who said this someone famous said this but the feedback is not real and what I mean by that is feedback of the giver not of the receiver and I've had to learn this through a lot of hard conversations and a lot of harsh things that folks have said about me in a variety of different contexts right Not just business context most of that now I understand is I've touched someone that's made them uncomfortable I've touched something that is a mirror for them in some sort of way I do see this with some women that o on the catty side if you will right understanding now that it's around insecurity what's going on for them less about what's going on for me Is there a kernel of truth in something Sure Could I have delivered something smoother Sure But that's not me Right for me to really f it's often the case actually it's in the room and something a off happens or off occurs and I don't say something someone would come up to me and be like I thought for sure you were gonna say something Like why didn't you And there's usually a reason for me not
• 23:22
  Dawn Russell: Угу.
• 23:23
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: it was too broad of an audience the audience wasn't whatever it might not have been the right time or place right Those sorts of things but people will seek me out for What did you think of that What is your perspective on that and I think that has been a process of getting to know myself more and also creating spaces where folks feel comfortable enough because I've shared publicly on a lot of different topics to be able to approach to ask questions
• 23:58
  Dawn Russell: it's really interesting because the first step, and you talk about this in the book, the three parts of accept it, right?
• 24:04
  Dawn Russell: And what's interesting to me is that acceptance first happens on this, this personal level.
• 24:09
  Dawn Russell: and it fosters a, a great deal of change and, and is the planting the seeds of courage, right?
• 24:14
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Mhm
• 24:16
  Dawn Russell: courageous.
• 24:17
  Dawn Russell: you can look, she's so confident." that was a desperate act.
• 24:20
  Dawn Russell: Or,
• 24:20
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Угу
• 24:20
  Dawn Russell: there's all these different ways that courage can show up as a false courage.
• 24:24
  Dawn Russell: The true courage is starting with acceptance, right?
• 24:26
  Dawn Russell: You lay, you trow the field, you lay the seeds, and now they're growing.
• 24:30
  Dawn Russell: Um, and then that happens internally, but then there's this, this next level of, change, right?
• 24:36
  Dawn Russell: You move into now I'm gonna change these aspects of myself.
• 24:39
  Dawn Russell: Once you get to a place where you're, you've accepted and you've changed, now that starts to radiate out from you to the people around you, these relationships that you have.
• 24:50
  Dawn Russell: And so there's this, this balance between what you can change, the things within yourself, what you can't change, and then the things you could potentially change which extend beyond yourself but require this other party or these other people
• 25:03
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: is what it is gonna always be or that is what it is now
• 25:07
  Dawn Russell: Mm-hmm
• 25:07
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: being okay with that's what it is now
• 25:10
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 25:11
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And I think that's really hard for folks
• 25:13
  Dawn Russell: Yeah
• 25:14
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: to kinda say there might be the best intentions there might be the the best ideas but it might not be the right thing in the moment And that also that's a different type of courage is to say I hear it I know is and this is all I'm capable of right now or this is all that's that I can give at the moment or or I can participate in this way versus that way a good example is so I know I shared with you crowds make me incredibly uncomfortable I have a lot of problems big crowds also a huge political with small P Person right And so for me not going to marches and this and that is a piece of what I would love to be able to do but I can't physically do it right but So for me the question is how can I participate in this process but not in a way that's meaningful to me but also
• 26:21
  Dawn Russell: Respects.
• 26:22
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: respects and takes care of me at the same time
• 26:25
  Dawn Russell: Yes
• 26:26
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: for someone else that might look like doing X Y and Z cause people often come to me and Why are you not running for office thing that comes up a lot and I'm like You have no I would love to but the amount of energy
• 26:40
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 26:41
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: to do that for me would be a lot
• 26:46
  Dawn Russell: Yeah
• 26:47
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and I would Maya who was on the panel with me last week was talking a lot about entropy and I think it's a great analogy for those that are scientists and chemists out there Entropy makes a lot of sense right You need to put into something in order to get an output a change right And often is the case is you need to put more energy order to even baseline or come to a level chem chemical balance It's homeostasis right And that's true and that's physical and we often forget is what the human body is
• 27:21
  Dawn Russell: Угу.
• 27:21
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: well
• 27:22
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 27:23
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: cause we are animals after all and I know I Now I'm really going around
• 27:27
  Dawn Russell: Yeah
• 27:28
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: the truth we see this studies in primates right what they spend their time in It's very sim the socialness and when
• 27:34
  Dawn Russell: Угу.
• 27:35
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: together in a social group when they need to be alone It's the same with us right
• 27:40
  Dawn Russell: Yeah。
• 27:40
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: what is our what is my personal kind of makeup of that
• 27:44
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 27:45
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: week was enormous amount of energy
• 27:47
  Dawn Russell: Oh my gosh.
• 27:48
  Dawn Russell: I got back, Dori, I think I've taken three hour and a half baths since we got back, and w- it's only been about five days maybe.
• 27:58
  Dawn Russell: and every single time the word that emerges,'cause I'll get quiet, reflective, and it's conservation.
• 28:05
  Dawn Russell: Conserve.
• 28:06
  Dawn Russell: And there were so many different people with so many different points of view and needs and interests, and I'm bouncing around inside this entropy of 3,500 at this, global conference where people are trying to reconcile, how do we actually make therapies in a safe way using AI, right?
• 28:28
  Dawn Russell: That was like the heart of it, if I were to summarize, right?
• 28:30
  Dawn Russell: How do we regulate this?
• 28:31
  Dawn Russell: How do we create compliance around it?
• 28:33
  Dawn Russell: How do we validate?
• 28:35
  Dawn Russell: and there was so much energy and I, in the moment I was bouncing around and talking, and then I came back and it was like all these ideas and it was like, okay, what's, how do I conserve and where do I direct, and what's the right moment to apply energy and with whom and why, right?
• 28:53
  Dawn Russell: And that, that was really,'cause it was just, a million things.
• 28:58
  Dawn Russell: and so I actually wanna talk about, this idea of change and timing and when to apply and when it works and when it doesn't through a life story that you shared in the book.
• 29:08
  Dawn Russell: so we've named what's true, right?
• 29:11
  Dawn Russell: There's the acceptance here, and I'd like to talk a little bit about that, that ability to change and what it costs you when it's right and when it's not.
• 29:19
  Dawn Russell: and so there's a quote that, that you talk about from the recovery process, and, in that you state, and I, and this may not be your own quote, but coming from some of the other, philosophies and frameworks that you've worked with, is that the real work starts after the breakthrough.
• 29:37
  Dawn Russell: and in the book you say that it was 12 years wasn't your first attempt at sobriety, so Coco in 12 years, right?
• 29:44
  Dawn Russell: and that you'd actually attempted this before to make this change, but it didn't stick.
• 29:49
  Dawn Russell: And so I would like to understand through this context of, you know, accepting and change and when the timing is right, what was different about the one that held for you?
• 30:01
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: so This l m this now the longest period of my recovery is I think in part been the longest due to my full surrender of it's okay to ask for help and how to ask for help And that can co it needs to for me come from a variety of places and not a singular thread I think early in my recovery or attempts of recovery there was a notion that I'm better than this that I can the just the will of saying it was enough that that not changing my circumstance or not changing my circle of friends or not changing my job but that m me as an individual all of that what I've accomplished in life up till that point I should be better quote unquote than this right so there was a lot of expectation previously on myself to be able to do that alone and
• 31:13
  Dawn Russell: I'm sorry.
• 31:15
  Dawn Russell: I'm sorry that you felt that way, And I, I know that you're not the only one.
• 31:19
  Dawn Russell: that's, that's tough, when you feel that you have to do it all yourself
• 31:24
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Yeah
• 31:26
  Dawn Russell: And I understand it.
• 31:28
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Yeah And I think when it when you sit in that right And I think that in my early recovery times yes there were words that were said in rooms that I said that but it wasn't really in there right It was this level of not having the mind-body connection having the mind say these things but not having the connection to have that full surrender And full surrender for me is being completely raw and open and sharing with others and being allowed to be influenced or felt by others and and that been a many mask revealing right So it's not just my recovery it's and it's not just my bipolar it's many things It's me coming out as bisexual It's me it's been this kind of all of the layers of who I am in its complexity and celebrating that complexity rather than being the a stereotypical X Y or Z
• 32:39
  Dawn Russell: う ん。 う
• 32:43
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I want for the world more spaces for folks to be able to have that
• 32:51
  Dawn Russell: ん。 う
• 32:56
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 12-step kind of program and cycle is the going through all of them and knowing that the last is giving back right and to know that I can continue to enter that those steps wherever I need to in order to keep myself grounded in a way that makes sense for me all of us have stories And all of us have moments in our lives where We there wasn't a connection that was deep enough to be able to take us through to the next how we felt progression And whether that for me it's from a variety of things from being adopted to being in a family that was very healthy and relationships with men that were not healthy and trying to find myself in that and not not knowing What I know now is I needed to share more with trusted people but I did trust some people that might not have been the best people to trust and so how do you when as a individual do we become aware enough to really sit in that Because it is uncomfortable sucks what are we creating and how are we creating and then how are we gonna create a new workforce if we don't understand how we even got here right and I'd like to break that cycle right
• 34:28
  Dawn Russell: ん、 う ー ん。
• 34:29
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: one thing that comes up in recovery too is how do you break the cycle And some for those in that understand 12-step programs is it has to come start with you And so if I'm not that voice in the room what we're doing at least professionally is trying to create a sustained change to do sustained change a world that has been very stagnant in terms of how narrowly defined their roles have been for many decade now that takes a lot of courage
• 35:09
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 35:09
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: take someone to show up and say Okay these ADSOPs don't add value
• 35:17
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 35:17
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: What do we need from this Why are
• 35:20
  Dawn Russell: I think what's fascinating about what you're saying is that it's so grounded in the human.
• 35:26
  Dawn Russell: It's so grounded in our script, where we came from.
• 35:30
  Dawn Russell: Each one of those SAP- SOPs, at least historically, were written by human.
• 35:34
  Dawn Russell: Even if it was written in con- conjunction or collaboration with an AI, an, a human wrote the AI.
• 35:39
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Absolutely
• 35:40
  Dawn Russell: and so you have at the basis of everything from through the lens of your eyes, which is incredible to think of it this way, is that everything that I encounter, every system, every company, every contract, every SOP ultimately comes down to a human who is at a point in their life where they have accepted what baggage they're carrying or not,
• 36:04
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Yeah
• 36:04
  Dawn Russell: and they're willing to change or not, and they have a goal that's being either imposed or internally generated.
• 36:11
  Dawn Russell: And how do we get from point A to point B?
• 36:14
  Dawn Russell: And you're analyzing everything through that lens of do I even want this customer?
• 36:18
  Dawn Russell: what's the feasibility of making this happen?
• 36:21
  Dawn Russell: and, it's, it's a beautiful world to see that through your eyes in that way.
• 36:25
  Dawn Russell: and, and so
• 36:27
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And
• 36:27
  Dawn Russell: we, Yeah.
• 36:29
  Dawn Russell: Sure.
• 36:29
  Dawn Russell: Yes.
• 36:30
  Dawn Russell: Yeah
• 36:30
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: what we propose and how we, we do work with folks ultimately challenge some of the fundamental beliefs of those organizations that we go into.
• 36:40
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And to take that on courage on their part to do something different, right?
• 36:46
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Because, yes, consultants are a dime a dozen, and who you choose to work with, I think, really does matter.
• 36:53
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and, and whether or not you're willing to really do the work to change or are you just wanting to fix a Band-Aid, and put a Band-Aid.
• 37:02
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And again, from a recovery perspective, I did the Band-Aid for many decades, right?
• 37:07
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Band-Aids don't work.
• 37:08
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Band-Aids wear off.
• 37:10
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: They heal, superficially, but they don't do the deep work.
• 37:13
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and it, prevents illness and all that sort of stuff, but it doesn't dr- you know, dramatically transform the landscape.
• 37:21
  Dawn Russell: Right
• 37:21
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I think what we're in a existential crisis in the business world and, and we could talk pharmaceutical or life science specific, but I think in general, I think we're in a s- in a crisis moment where we all have the choice to do something different.
• 37:37
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And if we choose to do something different, it has to be to the depths and the roots that we're talking about.
• 37:43
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and that's why I wrote the book, right?
• 37:45
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Because
• 37:45
  Dawn Russell: Ja,
• 37:46
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: th- and, while the book takes the lens of digital validation in my specific niche area, it applies across the board, and
• 37:53
  Dawn Russell: Угу.
• 37:54
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: wanted to do this podcast as a more general, more broader conversation because this is n- this is no different.
• 38:01
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: you could put whatever, industry here.
• 38:04
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: You can put higher education in here.
• 38:07
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: You can put politics in here.
• 38:08
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: You can do
• 38:09
  Dawn Russell: all systems, right?
• 38:10
  Dawn Russell: They're systems of, of culture meeting policy, meeting technology, meeting people.
• 38:15
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: That's right
• 38:16
  Dawn Russell: and so let's, take this into the very specific point that you bring into the world right now where as a business and as a leader of a consulting firm in this life sciences space, you're a change maker fundamentally, and you're a change maker in a highly regulated and conservative industry, right?
• 38:34
  Dawn Russell: And you said 64%, I believe, are still on paper, all of the, history of how a product is made on a physical piece of paper.
• 38:43
  Dawn Russell: amazing, right?
• 38:44
  Dawn Russell: now you've also said you can only change what you control.
• 38:47
  Dawn Russell: So what's your first courageous act for a quality leader who's scared of AI right now?
• 38:53
  Dawn Russell: they're being forced, by this huge change that's happening that we're all required to jump on the bandwagon with, yet they're on paper.
• 39:02
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Mhm
• 39:04
  Dawn Russell: or two pieces of advice that you'd give to those quality leaders in these organizations of how to be courageous?
• 39:11
  Dawn Russell: where do they start?
• 39:13
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So I think starting is first writing down what you think you do every day and where do you think you actually have a choice.
• 39:20
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: most of what we do on a day-to-day basis is routine, rote, kind of instinctual things that we do.
• 39:28
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and I would challenge folks to kinda actually document that for real.
• 39:33
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and then do an exercise around, am I actually making a choice here, or is it something that has come from downstream and that I'm just the recipient of?
• 39:46
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and in our quality systems, this happens a lot, and that exercise often reveals systematic problems that need to be solved, within organizations.
• 39:57
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and those sorts of interviews that you and I have done together with, with folks is hard work, right?
• 40:02
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: It's not a comfortable conversation.
• 40:04
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: people get very defensive, right?
• 40:06
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So you have to get through that defensive layer, so it's part, coaching, part, system, an- analysis, right?
• 40:14
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and teaching folks how to look at systems, right?
• 40:18
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: where they're connected within that system.
• 40:20
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: so yeah.
• 40:20
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So I think that kind of first walk and look at what are you actually doing day to day, and where do you actually make decision or judgment calls, or where do you think you're making a judgment call?
• 40:33
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 'cause I would challenge that most of us are not making those, without influence.
• 40:38
  Dawn Russell: So once they've written down and reflected on, what do you actually have the power to change and, or, what is your role in this overall system, what would be...
• 40:48
  Dawn Russell: Is that the first act of courage, is that reflection?
• 40:51
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: a first reflection, right?
• 40:52
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And then take, to take that the next step further is then you break them up into three sort of categories.
• 40:58
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: What is within my control?
• 41:00
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: If you're a leader, which all of us are leaders in some form or fashion, who do we influence as part of that?
• 41:06
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And then where do we...
• 41:08
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: where is our organization in, that paradigm?
• 41:12
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and if we have a voice at that leadership level or not, are we participating in that, right?
• 41:18
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: So I think, where you come in within whatever level of the organization or dynamic or family or whatever, right?
• 41:25
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: you can kinda look at it from the different perspectives to be able to then consciously kinda take the, the step of,"Oh, so I'm a- also a leader here here.
• 41:37
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: What can I do here in order to influence or change X, Y, or Z?" If you're in the, an organization at a level that actually has the decision-making process, it's different, right?
• 41:50
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: was just listening and putting together a talk for next week when I go to Puerto Rico for ConX around human factor and some of the disasters that have happened around the world, historically, and I think a lot of us don't look at, information enough, right?
• 42:06
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: There's a lot of good documentation and studies around, air- airplanes and, human factor failure, as well as, nuclear, reactor failure.
• 42:17
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: And that in pharma, I think, quality folks in particular, if we're talking about that particular role, would be very surprised by what's been, discovered through true, root cause analysis, where a lot of the root cause analysis that I see historically in pharma are very surface level and do not get to systematic, root causes.
• 42:40
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and so we've been potentially solving for the wrong problem for a long time because we haven't been willing to look in places that make us feel uncomfortable
• 42:51
  Dawn Russell: Yeah.
• 42:51
  Dawn Russell: I have to say that in my own experience as well, getting someone to write down a problem statement, what is the problem you're actually trying to solve, is so challenging.
• 43:00
  Dawn Russell: there's always a million solutions, a million ideas, but really truly understanding and embracing and sitting with the problem.
• 43:08
  Dawn Russell: and, and, what is that?
• 43:10
  Dawn Russell: What is the problem with quality in AI and paper?
• 43:13
  Dawn Russell: H- how would you craft that statement?
• 43:15
  Dawn Russell: And I think that's a great place to leave off on today.
• 43:18
  Dawn Russell: Dori, it's been such a pleasure getting to know you more.
• 43:21
  Dawn Russell: We've had tears here today.
• 43:23
  Dawn Russell: You can't see the video, but really moving story.
• 43:26
  Dawn Russell: and, and not just the story, but your life.
• 43:28
  Dawn Russell: it's touching.
• 43:29
  Dawn Russell: It's incredible.
• 43:31
  Dawn Russell: you are an inspiration to me.
• 43:32
  Dawn Russell: and I'm so grateful to be part of your life and part of this podcast a- as a whole.
• 43:38
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Yeah.
• 43:39
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: Thanks, Dawn.
• 43:40
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: I'm really looking forward to what we're gonna have next.
• 43:43
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: and I know it's a journey.
• 43:44
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: but it's, If folks also have thoughts and ideas, we'd love to hear from you, so
• 43:49
  Dawn Russell: Угу
• 43:50
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: add them to some sort of, list I know we, we put out.
• 43:54
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: so I enjoy our next conversation
• 43:57
  Dawn Russell: Awesome.
• 43:58
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: All
• 43:58
  Dawn Russell: we'll see you in a, a bit here.
• 44:00
  Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: All right
• 44:02
  Dawn Russell: As we close out episode two in our conversation with Dori, I thought I'd leave listeners with a few reflection prompts to consider as you go into the rest of your week and month.
• 44:16
  Dawn Russell: Think of a room that you're gonna walk into this month, a meeting, a conversation, a decision you've been putting off.
• 44:23
  Dawn Russell: Before you get there, ask yourself,"What do I already know that I haven't said out loud?" If I do something bold in that room, what will be driving it?
• 44:36
  Dawn Russell: Is it desperation, escape, proving myself, or is it a choice that I've made before I arrived?
• 44:44
  Dawn Russell: What's one small thing that I can decide now so I'm not counting on courage in the moment?
• 44:51
  Dawn Russell: And who can I tell so I'm not deciding alone?
• 44:55
  Dawn Russell: Remember, it doesn't have to be a dramatic leap.
• 44:58
  Dawn Russell: Most of the time, courage looks like showing up again and having already decided.
• 45:04
  Dawn Russell: I'll go ahead and put these questions into the show notes so you can have them before you come into that next room.
• 45:09
  Dawn Russell: And until then, we wish you the best, and, uh, talk with you soon
• 45:36
  Dori3: Reinvention isn't about erasing who you were.
• 45:40
  Dawn Russell: It's about having the courage to decide what comes next.
• 45:44
  Dori3: If something in this conversation stayed with you, share it with someone navigating an unexpected turn of their own.
• 45:51
  Dawn Russell: Subscribe to The Courage to Reinvent wherever you listen.
• 45:56
  Dawn Russell: New episodes arrive on the last Thursday of every month.
• 46:00
  Dori3: The reflections from each conversation will be waiting for you in the show notes.
• 46:04
  Dori3: And The Courage to Reinvent book is now available for pre-order at CourageToReinvent.com.
• 46:11
  Dawn Russell: Real stories, real courage, real transformation.