Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mustached serial killer trades STEAK dinners for true confessions to brutal murders of unsuspecting women!

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Mustached serial killer trades STEAK dinners for true confessions to brutal murders of unsuspecting women! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Henry Lee Lucas makes Charles Manson and Ted Bundy look
0:10
Speaker 1: like Tom Sawyer. I can't tell you how many times
0:15
Speaker 1: in court I would be prosecuting a homicide case and
0:18
Speaker 1: I would look over at the defendant. Of course, I
0:20
Speaker 1: never did that in front of a jury. In front
0:23
Speaker 1: of the jury, I would never look over at the
0:25
Speaker 1: defendant or his fleet of lawyers. But when they weren't looking,
0:29
Speaker 1: I would look over at the defendant or defendants, and
0:34
Speaker 1: in many homicide cases, they would have a look in
0:37
Speaker 1: their eyes like I would be looking at a frog
0:43
Speaker 1: or a lizard, just something cold blooded with no expression.
0:50
Speaker 1: Henry Lee Lucas because either he's the biggest hoaxter that
0:56
Speaker 1: ever lived, or he may be responsible for as many
1:00
Speaker 1: as six hundred murders. In twenty six States Crime Stories
1:14
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, Henry Lee Lucas says he has killed
1:20
Speaker 1: one hundred women. Lucas claims to have killed over one
1:23
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty women. Henry Lee Lucas killed at least
1:26
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty people during an eight year spree
1:29
Speaker 1: that only ended when Texas authority he's caught him last year.
1:33
Speaker 1: One policeman said he makes Charles Manson sound like Tom Sawyer.
1:37
Speaker 1: Henry Le Lucas murdered my sister, Largene. Henry Lee Lucas
1:41
Speaker 1: murdered my mother. John Gilmore Lucas killed my sister Rita Salazar.
1:46
Speaker 1: The last person he killed meant no more to him
1:49
Speaker 1: than the last favorite that he smoked. This is a
1:52
Speaker 1: bad guy. Everyone's perfect kill killer him. Yet he's just
2:00
Speaker 1: you didn't d You can't kill two hundred people and
2:05
Speaker 1: never leave a single shred of evidence, nothing zero. I
2:10
Speaker 1: just grabbed right. You talk about being conned. He was
2:15
Speaker 1: playing them like a violin. Either they found that world's
2:19
Speaker 1: worst serial killer art that was the biggest hoax in
2:24
Speaker 1: American criminal justice history. Believe me, it is not a hoax.
2:29
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
2:32
Speaker 1: being with us. His victims meant no more to him
2:36
Speaker 1: than his last cigarette. Boy, that was well put. And
2:41
Speaker 1: when that guy just said his last murder victim meant
2:46
Speaker 1: last to him than his last cigarette that he flipped
2:49
Speaker 1: off to the sidewalk, I get it. I wish I hadn't.
2:54
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, but I do from looking into
2:58
Speaker 1: the eyes of so many killers. Again, I Nancy Grace's
3:01
Speaker 1: Crime Stories I want to thank you for being with us.
3:04
Speaker 1: You were just hearing part of an incredible series Netflix series,
3:10
Speaker 1: The Confession Killer. I want you to take a listen
3:14
Speaker 1: to this. Kate Ridge. Kate was eighty two years old,
3:19
Speaker 1: lived by ourself. The family member told the sheriff that
3:24
Speaker 1: there was a suspect in her mind of Henry Lee
3:27
Speaker 1: Lucas and he was living with Kate for a while.
3:33
Speaker 1: We did a lot of searching for the body. We
3:38
Speaker 1: found Kate's purse thrown over a bridge, so you know
3:42
Speaker 1: that pretty well told me that the body was probably
3:46
Speaker 1: still in the vicinity. After about a month of work
3:50
Speaker 1: in this case, I realized that we also got a
3:53
Speaker 1: fifteen year old girl missing. She went by Becky, but
3:58
Speaker 1: her name was Frida Little Pale. She was Henrycy girlfriend
4:04
Speaker 1: Becky's missing. Kate smissing, Henrycy common denominator. He was a
4:11
Speaker 1: pretty good suspect. Well, I've said many many times, there
4:14
Speaker 1: is no coincidence in criminal law. With me an all
4:17
Speaker 1: star panel to break it down, put it back together.
4:19
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor author I've read flags. You can
4:24
Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Doctor Daniel Bober,
4:29
Speaker 1: renowned forensic psychiatrists. He's on Instagram at doctor Daniel Bober.
4:34
Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door. If that
4:39
Speaker 1: doesn't give you a chill down your spine, I don't
4:42
Speaker 1: know what does. Your website is awesome, Stephen Lampley dot com.
4:48
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree joining me. Medical examiner out of South
4:53
Speaker 1: Carolina and author of a fantastic book that I appreciate,
4:58
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Old Guide. But right now to wc IV
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Speaker 1: ABC four Charleston reporter Ann Emerson, and I'm trying to
5:07
Speaker 1: get my mind wrapped around Henry Lee Lucas because either
5:14
Speaker 1: he's the biggest hoaxter that ever lived, or he may
5:18
Speaker 1: be responsible for as many as six hundred murders in
5:22
Speaker 1: twenty six states. I mean, this guy even murdered his
5:28
Speaker 1: own mother. Ann Emerson, WCIVA, what can you tell me?
5:33
Speaker 1: You know, this is one of those cases that just
5:35
Speaker 1: is so chilling. And he really set the stage when
5:40
Speaker 1: he first announced this sort of killing spree that he
5:44
Speaker 1: was on, and that's what probably just caught my attention
5:47
Speaker 1: right off the bat. He waited until he was in
5:49
Speaker 1: a court, He waited until all the cameras were on,
5:52
Speaker 1: and then he says to the judges, he's about to,
5:55
Speaker 1: you know, face these crimes that we already knew about
6:00
Speaker 1: with h from his mom to Becky to Kate Ridge.
6:04
Speaker 1: He says, well, what are you going to do about
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Speaker 1: the other hundred women I killed? And I think that
6:11
Speaker 1: that must sud just I mean, been such a shock
6:15
Speaker 1: to everybody in the community, everybody in an anybody that
6:18
Speaker 1: was able to watch that. I just I think that
6:21
Speaker 1: was the turning point where it was like, wait a minute,
6:24
Speaker 1: there's more to this. And here's the thing that really
6:27
Speaker 1: gets me that I really wanted to think about here
6:30
Speaker 1: was there's always something in the middle. There is truth
6:34
Speaker 1: somewhere in this middle. And that's probably what's thinking the
6:38
Speaker 1: families just a nerve now of what was true and
6:43
Speaker 1: what wait a minute, wait a minute. Imagine all these
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Speaker 1: families that don't know what happened to their child or
6:51
Speaker 1: their sister there, their aunt, their girlfriend. Now I noticed something,
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Speaker 1: Anne Emerson WCIV that we've said, his mother, his elderly renter,
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Speaker 1: his landlord, his fifteen year old girlfriend. They're all women.
7:11
Speaker 1: Is that correct, Anne Emerson? That's right? And you know
7:14
Speaker 1: it sounds like he had a very abusive relationship with
7:17
Speaker 1: his mother. They talk about how she beat him severely
7:23
Speaker 1: to the point and this is so interestingly they really
7:27
Speaker 1: kind of examine it whether or not he was beaten
7:30
Speaker 1: so badly that he had severe brain damage in certain
7:33
Speaker 1: parts of his brain. And Anne, please don't do that
7:39
Speaker 1: to me. Do not start blaming his mother. For all
7:43
Speaker 1: I know, she was a she devil from hell, but
7:45
Speaker 1: he's the one that apparently has killed six hundred people.
7:50
Speaker 1: You can only blame the mother for so long. And Emerson,
7:55
Speaker 1: you're right, and you know what, that's what I think.
7:58
Speaker 1: That's what one of the most disturbing parts of this is.
8:01
Speaker 1: Everybody's had at some point a problem with a relationship.
8:05
Speaker 1: It's how you manage it. And you certainly don't go
8:08
Speaker 1: on a killing spree after all this. But there is
8:12
Speaker 1: something he literally says, and you can hear him talk
8:15
Speaker 1: about this, that he hated women. Time stories with Nancy Grace,
8:40
Speaker 1: we learned that Henry went to prison in nineteen sixty
8:43
Speaker 1: for killing his mother, did some time in the pen
8:46
Speaker 1: and the psychiatric cord for a period of time. My
8:53
Speaker 1: theory was that he killed Becky and then Kate figured
9:01
Speaker 1: it out and that's why he killed Kate. He come
9:08
Speaker 1: up to the Sheriff's office with us, friendly enough, act
9:12
Speaker 1: like he was sinceris, but there was nothing we could
9:15
Speaker 1: hold him on. He was pretty impressed that we had
9:17
Speaker 1: already gathered a lot of information on him. He said,
9:21
Speaker 1: I guess since you found all that out about me,
9:24
Speaker 1: you know about that warrant on me. I said, Praise
9:28
Speaker 1: the Lord, and the back of my mind, I said, yeah,
9:30
Speaker 1: that's out of Florida, and I started shuffling looking forward
9:32
Speaker 1: in my papers. He said, no, I'm Michigan, you know.
9:35
Speaker 1: I said, that's right, that's right, And I said, what
9:40
Speaker 1: was that far? He said, wells originally for stealing the car,
9:43
Speaker 1: but the warrants for probation violation. So I got the
9:47
Speaker 1: warrant number and then when he come back, we put
9:49
Speaker 1: him in jail. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories,
9:52
Speaker 1: and you're hearing our friends over at Netflix and the
9:54
Speaker 1: Confessional Killer. We are talking about conceivably the most prolific
9:59
Speaker 1: serial kill in the country. Henry Lee Lucas. You know,
10:03
Speaker 1: you hear of Bundy, you here of gay Cy, you
10:07
Speaker 1: hear of the night Stalker. But this guy has them
10:12
Speaker 1: all beaten, claiming up to six hundred murders, and right
10:17
Speaker 1: now I believe him. Now, let's talk about what is
10:21
Speaker 1: a probation violation to Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor, all the
10:25
Speaker 1: red flags, Wendy in a nutshell, explain it. Well, you're
10:28
Speaker 1: put on probation as opposed to going to prison, and
10:31
Speaker 1: probation means you have to abide by terms and conditions
10:34
Speaker 1: set by the court. So it's interesting in many cases
10:37
Speaker 1: where maybe somebody doesn't commit a new crime, if you
10:40
Speaker 1: violate one of those terms and conditions, you can be jailed,
10:43
Speaker 1: You can be brought back to jail, you can be fined,
10:45
Speaker 1: your probation can be extended, and in many cases, if
10:48
Speaker 1: it's bad enough, your probation can actually be revoked and
10:51
Speaker 1: you can go to prison, which is a much more
10:53
Speaker 1: serious penalty. So for somebody to have a warrant out
10:56
Speaker 1: probrobation revocation not a new crime, but a potentially could
11:00
Speaker 1: be a new crime, depending on what the person did. Okay,
11:03
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, you sound like you're reading straight out of
11:06
Speaker 1: the OCGA, the Official Criminal Code of Georgia annotated. Let
11:13
Speaker 1: me just say it in regular people talks it's not
11:15
Speaker 1: all of us went to law school. Bottom line, you
11:18
Speaker 1: get convicted on one thing and you can't even make
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Speaker 1: it through probation. You get a sweet deal. You don't
11:25
Speaker 1: go to jail, You get probation, and you can't even
11:28
Speaker 1: behave long enough to get through your probation period. Say
11:32
Speaker 1: you get your shotlift, you get three years probation. What
11:36
Speaker 1: what do you do? Run out steal a car. That
11:38
Speaker 1: is a probation violation if you do it within those
11:40
Speaker 1: three years. That's what I'm talking about. Although, of course, Wendy,
11:44
Speaker 1: you're perfectly correct, and this guy is telling them, which
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Speaker 1: blows your theory to smitherings. My dear Anne Emerson WCIV
11:52
Speaker 1: ABC four that oh maybe he had some type of
11:56
Speaker 1: a mental illness. Did you hear this? This sheriff he
11:59
Speaker 1: walked up, He was quote friendly, sincere said, I guess
12:02
Speaker 1: you found out about my warrant. Oh excuse me, h
12:06
Speaker 1: double L. I quit cursing when the twins were born.
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Speaker 1: Oh h L. Yes, he knew exactly what he's doing
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Speaker 1: coming up talking about a probation warrant. Oh yeah, he
12:17
Speaker 1: was playing them like a fiddle. And what that means
12:21
Speaker 1: is he was arrested on one thing. Then he steals
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Speaker 1: a car and he's got a probation violation warrant out
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Speaker 1: on him, and that's how it all starts to break down.
12:31
Speaker 1: You know what's crazy, Steve Lampley, detective author outside your door.
12:36
Speaker 1: Criminals can be very charming. This is a sheriff saying
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Speaker 1: he was very friendly and sincere, he's a freaking serial killer.
12:44
Speaker 1: What do you mean friendly and sincere, Nancy, that's correct.
12:47
Speaker 1: So so many criminals are do have that personality, and
12:52
Speaker 1: you have to be able to ignore that. You have
12:55
Speaker 1: to be able to look past that facade to the
13:00
Speaker 1: real person, the real underlying person, the real underlying criminal,
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Speaker 1: potential criminal, whether that you're taughting to. They are very charming,
13:09
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, all of them are very charming. He can
13:12
Speaker 1: be very charming, but you have to look beyond that.
13:15
Speaker 1: You know. I'm so glad you said Ted Bundy, Steve Lampley,
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Speaker 1: because we all know Ted Bundy prolific serial killer. But
13:23
Speaker 1: one thing a lot of people don't know about Ted
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Speaker 1: Bundy is that he was a necrophiliac, which means he
13:31
Speaker 1: had a fascination with dead bodies, and many of his
13:34
Speaker 1: victims I hope everybody's sitting down. You may need to
13:37
Speaker 1: lay down for this. Bundy would get his female victims,
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Speaker 1: take them back to his home, bathe their dead bodies,
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Speaker 1: apply makeup, apply makeup, and fix their hair, and then
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Speaker 1: have sex with their dead body or their body parts.
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Speaker 1: There are reports he had sex with one of his victims,
13:59
Speaker 1: severed head and kept it in the fireplace until his
14:02
Speaker 1: girlfriend was coming home. Then he burned it so she
14:04
Speaker 1: wouldn't see it. That's certainly something to think about. But
14:08
Speaker 1: you're saying he's so charming. I'll let you stew on that.
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Speaker 1: Steve Lampley in the meantime, speaking of necrophilia. Listen, he said,
14:15
Speaker 1: I'll have to show you where Becky is, but it's
14:19
Speaker 1: not a pretty sad he said. If you'll dig out there,
14:21
Speaker 1: you'll find a pillow case with part of her. The
14:24
Speaker 1: legs are out that a way or heads this away.
14:28
Speaker 1: And then I brought him back to Dent and PD
14:30
Speaker 1: to be intro game. We kept arguing, cussing each other.
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Speaker 1: Inn that was it when I hit it with a
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Speaker 1: knight okay, And after after that part happened, he recalled,
14:42
Speaker 1: what you did that? Yes, I took for Pioneers and
14:46
Speaker 1: a brawl, and I had thanks for lunning for it.
14:50
Speaker 1: That's one of those things that I guess you got
14:53
Speaker 1: to be a part of my life. Had alectrounic Port
14:57
Speaker 1: to the bed after after she's dead, and after you've
15:04
Speaker 1: had sex with her? What happened this? Well after that,
15:08
Speaker 1: I cut her up in Little King of Feza. You know,
15:13
Speaker 1: he told me I'll killed the only girl I've ever loved.
15:16
Speaker 1: At least it bothered him a little bit. Did he
15:18
Speaker 1: killed Becky? Well, apparently it didn't, because he continued to
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Speaker 1: killing sprees up to possibly six hundred women, parents, family's, husband's,
15:29
Speaker 1: boyfriend's sisters grieving what happened to their loved one. They
15:35
Speaker 1: still don't know. Was she a victim of Henry Lee Lucas?
15:38
Speaker 1: And just by the way, did you hear him and
15:42
Speaker 1: Emerson w CIV. He might as well have been saying,
15:45
Speaker 1: you know, I'll have a cheeseburger. Let us into meta.
15:47
Speaker 1: You know what hold of me o? The way he
15:49
Speaker 1: was describing having sex with his girlfriend's dead body before
15:53
Speaker 1: dismembering her. And you know the thing is is I
15:55
Speaker 1: don't think there was any calculation. I mean, this was
15:59
Speaker 1: this was a reaction. It was an impulse. I think
16:03
Speaker 1: it was an example of someone who just went for
16:07
Speaker 1: it whenever he felt like it. There was no filter,
16:11
Speaker 1: and this guy killed randomly and as much as he
16:15
Speaker 1: wanted to. And there was obviously a very sexual deviant
16:18
Speaker 1: part of it that that was where he waited until
16:20
Speaker 1: they were dead before he did what he did to
16:25
Speaker 1: the bodies, and then he just chopped him off. And
16:29
Speaker 1: you can say it you're on crime stories when you
16:32
Speaker 1: say he did what he did. What he did was
16:34
Speaker 1: brutally butcher a fifteen year old girl and then have
16:38
Speaker 1: sex with her dead body and talks about it as
16:41
Speaker 1: calmly as if he's, you know, returning an overdue book
16:44
Speaker 1: to the library. To doctor Michelle Dupree, South Carolina medical examiner,
16:49
Speaker 1: renowned and author of homicide investigation Field Guy, doctor Dupree,
16:52
Speaker 1: question to you, when, and I know you've seen it
16:56
Speaker 1: all literally conducting thousands of autopsies, how do you identify
17:04
Speaker 1: a body when you have something like a severed leg?
17:09
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have a fingerprint, you don't have teeth,
17:12
Speaker 1: to do dental X rays? What do you do, doctor Dupre,
17:15
Speaker 1: Especially a severed leg that's found out in a field
17:18
Speaker 1: and it's been there for years. Well, Nanthy, hopefully we're
17:21
Speaker 1: able to get some DNA. We may not be able
17:24
Speaker 1: to get the normal DNA that we think of, the
17:26
Speaker 1: nuclear DNA, but there is something called mitochondrial DNA, So
17:30
Speaker 1: if we have an idea who the person might be,
17:34
Speaker 1: then we may be able to match it up with
17:35
Speaker 1: a female relative through the mitochondrial DNA. There may also
17:40
Speaker 1: be some seam markers or something that may have been
17:43
Speaker 1: buried with that body part that may help us identify
17:46
Speaker 1: that person clothing. I'm even a tattoo or a birthmark
17:50
Speaker 1: that may be on the leg if that is still visible,
17:53
Speaker 1: that we may be able to help track back to
17:55
Speaker 1: who that person is. You know, a doctor dupree, I'm
17:58
Speaker 1: a JD, not an MD, but having grilled so many
18:02
Speaker 1: medical examiners, usually in their office because they're typically a
18:05
Speaker 1: state's witness, trying to figure out what the hey they're
18:07
Speaker 1: saying when you're referring to nuclear versus mitochondrial DNA. Nuclear,
18:12
Speaker 1: the let me just say jeans for lack of a
18:15
Speaker 1: better word, of the mother and the father of both,
18:18
Speaker 1: which gives you your individual DNA. Nobody else has your
18:22
Speaker 1: DNAs like a fingerprint. But mitochondrial is DNA that has
18:27
Speaker 1: origins strictly from your mom. And you can get that,
18:31
Speaker 1: for instance, from a hair without a root. A root
18:35
Speaker 1: is a nucleus. So question when several lug let's just say,
18:41
Speaker 1: for the heck of it, doctor Dupree has been out
18:43
Speaker 1: in a field for let's just say twenty years, where
18:47
Speaker 1: do you get the DNA? Nancy? We may be able
18:49
Speaker 1: to get that from the bone marrow. There will be
18:51
Speaker 1: no tissue, of course left, but there may be enough
18:54
Speaker 1: in the bone marrow to still get that mitochondrial DNA.
18:57
Speaker 1: That's the one thing about mitochondrial DNA is a last forever,
19:01
Speaker 1: well not truly forever, but for a very long time.
19:18
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace to judge asking do you
19:28
Speaker 1: understand that you're being charged with murder? I'm sitting there
19:32
Speaker 1: an open court, m you know, casually listening, and all
19:36
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Lucas just blurts out, well, judge, what
19:41
Speaker 1: are we going to do about these other one hundred
19:43
Speaker 1: women I killed? From that point it went to hell
19:47
Speaker 1: in a hand. Basked, quick in here and you said
19:51
Speaker 1: you killed O'RONI wind that true? Wow, what a way
19:54
Speaker 1: to announce it in open court on another matter. And
19:57
Speaker 1: then you say, with a court room full all of
20:00
Speaker 1: lawyers and reporters, the judge, the other inmates, what are
20:03
Speaker 1: you going to do by those other hundred women? I
20:05
Speaker 1: killed Henry Lee Lucas most likely the most prolific serial
20:11
Speaker 1: killer in America and Emerson wc IV, ABC four. So
20:16
Speaker 1: that's exactly what you were saying. And by the way,
20:19
Speaker 1: you were hearing from our friends over at Netflix on
20:21
Speaker 1: the confession killer and he had a flare, did he not?
20:26
Speaker 1: I mean the timing, the timing of making that announcement.
20:29
Speaker 1: What does it say? It says that he knew how
20:33
Speaker 1: to make an entrance for sure. I mean he opened
20:36
Speaker 1: up this this world. I mean, if I could not
20:39
Speaker 1: have written a lead in better than that, there's no way.
20:42
Speaker 1: And to have that kind of hook on a whole
20:46
Speaker 1: community that is trying to grapple with all of these
20:50
Speaker 1: missing women, and it could be your loved one you're
20:56
Speaker 1: hearing for the first time, Well what about the other
20:57
Speaker 1: one hundred women? Immediately people think, oh my, do you
21:00
Speaker 1: remember that case back when you know, three years ago,
21:03
Speaker 1: two years ago, that string of murders down this highway.
21:06
Speaker 1: You know, you immediately start thinking, oh, my gosh, he
21:09
Speaker 1: is going to give us everything. And so from a
21:13
Speaker 1: I would think from a law enforcement perspective, then that
21:16
Speaker 1: opens up all of this this new work. But then
21:19
Speaker 1: you also just have this guy who wants to talk,
21:23
Speaker 1: and he really wants to talk. Explain to me, doctor
21:27
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, the forensic psychiatrist guys joining me out of
21:30
Speaker 1: the Florida jurisdiction. You can find him on Instagram, doctor
21:33
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober. Doctor Bober, explain to me this mindset of
21:37
Speaker 1: a serial killer. Let me just give an example. You
21:40
Speaker 1: know what, when I walk through Central Park and I
21:43
Speaker 1: see a little rabbit cross my path, my impulse is
21:47
Speaker 1: not to go chase it down and tear its neck
21:49
Speaker 1: out with my teeth. My impulse is to say, look John,
21:53
Speaker 1: David and Lousy, look at the bunny. Okay. So there's
21:56
Speaker 1: a difference in the thinking of a predator like Henry
22:00
Speaker 1: Lee Lucas and a normal person. As we use the
22:03
Speaker 1: word normal, Nancy, this is a guy who's intoxicated by attention.
22:07
Speaker 1: He's doing all this to basically hold the victims families
22:10
Speaker 1: as an emotional hostage. He wants as much fame as
22:14
Speaker 1: much glory. He's a narcissist, he's a psychopath. And yes,
22:18
Speaker 1: there are differences in the way that psychopaths process the
22:21
Speaker 1: world a lot. I know you don't want to hear this,
22:23
Speaker 1: but a lot of times they have abuse, they have
22:25
Speaker 1: neglect that of course that doesn't excuse their behavior, or
22:28
Speaker 1: they have absent mother figures. I mean there are some
22:30
Speaker 1: Why is it always the mother with you, bober, Why
22:33
Speaker 1: do you never say anything about the father. It's always
22:36
Speaker 1: the mother. Well, it's always the mother with you. Between
22:39
Speaker 1: a mother, the relationship between a mother and a child
22:42
Speaker 1: is something that's very sacred and there's nothing like it,
22:44
Speaker 1: as I'm sure you very well know. But you know,
22:47
Speaker 1: even Ted Bundy at the end of his life was
22:50
Speaker 1: it was confessing to murders that he had no connection
22:52
Speaker 1: to just for more attention, for more fame, for more um.
22:58
Speaker 1: You know, it got him off to know that all
22:59
Speaker 1: the people were sort of at the edge of their
23:01
Speaker 1: seat waiting for him to tell people the authorities where
23:04
Speaker 1: the bodies were. So this is very similar. You know what.
23:06
Speaker 1: I hate Ted Bundy and we don't say that h
23:08
Speaker 1: weren't in our home. I hate him so much because
23:12
Speaker 1: he ruined so many lives, and I've spoken with some
23:16
Speaker 1: of his victims that managed to live, and the way
23:20
Speaker 1: they describe him, it was charming sometimes. But the look
23:27
Speaker 1: in his eyes. One victim told me it was like
23:29
Speaker 1: the devil, the actual devil was behind his eyes. I
23:34
Speaker 1: want to follow up on something doctor Daniel Bober, renowned
23:37
Speaker 1: forensics psychiatrists, just said Listens Presley was supposed to be
23:41
Speaker 1: the biggest shot. But I think I even beat the
23:43
Speaker 1: elders Presley, and I think I even beat what's his name,
23:47
Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler. Seemed like I would have going to beat him.
23:51
Speaker 1: God seemed like every time they would bring a murder
23:54
Speaker 1: case in, I would accept it no matter what it was.
23:58
Speaker 1: Henry Lee Lucas road Show was in full swing, and Lucas,
24:02
Speaker 1: who had lived all his life as a bump, was
24:04
Speaker 1: bosking in his a Kim. I had everything. I wanted,
24:08
Speaker 1: everything possible that a man could want. I had. I
24:14
Speaker 1: had money I didn't have. I had a colored television
24:18
Speaker 1: I didn't have before. I had cable TV and I
24:21
Speaker 1: didn't have that before. I had all kinds of food,
24:25
Speaker 1: even stacks of cigarettes in cartons on in my house.
24:30
Speaker 1: That's coming from nothing. Wow. He certainly has bragging rights
24:34
Speaker 1: to nearly six hundred murders. That's ninety three TV program
24:38
Speaker 1: Henry Lee Lucas Confessions of a serial Killer and John Woodvine.
24:42
Speaker 1: You know what, this guy is an enigma to so
24:45
Speaker 1: many people. He sounds so dashing, he sounds so mm
24:51
Speaker 1: charming and debonair. But the reality is that's not what
24:55
Speaker 1: killers are. They're all the same. And I'm sure an
24:59
Speaker 1: emer w CIV and doctor Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists are
25:04
Speaker 1: going to disagree with me, But I see it in
25:06
Speaker 1: black and white. Serial killers are the devil. Think about it.
25:11
Speaker 1: A fifteen year old girl his quote girlfriend. He's a
25:15
Speaker 1: grown man with a fifteen year old girlfriend that he murders,
25:22
Speaker 1: that he rapes after she's dead, then he dismembers her body.
25:29
Speaker 1: That's what a serial killer is. He's comparing himself to
25:32
Speaker 1: Elvis for Pete's sake. But let's talk about the reality
25:37
Speaker 1: to you, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor in TV on the air.
25:43
Speaker 1: In the media, killers criminals are very often glorified. I
25:48
Speaker 1: don't understand that. Maybe it's because I know the reality
25:51
Speaker 1: of criminals, of killers. I mean, Wendy, you've been on
25:54
Speaker 1: a murder scene, right, Oh, absolutely, Nancy. And you know
25:57
Speaker 1: you mentioned looking into the eyes of a murderer in court,
26:00
Speaker 1: while I do the same thing when the jury is
26:03
Speaker 1: not there. And when you look into the eyes of
26:04
Speaker 1: the psychopath, particularly after they've recounted their crime in detail,
26:08
Speaker 1: they don't just look sort of matter of fact. Sometimes
26:11
Speaker 1: they look excited, proud, almost basking in the glory. And
26:15
Speaker 1: the attention that they're receiving is I think several other
26:17
Speaker 1: guests now have mentioned. So then you go to the
26:19
Speaker 1: crime scene, as you're saying, and you can't believe it's
26:22
Speaker 1: the same guy that's dressed up in court just wowing
26:26
Speaker 1: the jury with the articulation. Sometimes because you don't have
26:29
Speaker 1: some very intelligent people come to some of these crimes,
26:32
Speaker 1: and we all remember just the kind of celebrity status
26:36
Speaker 1: that Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, remember all the
26:40
Speaker 1: women that were writing and wanting to marry these men.
26:42
Speaker 1: These are some of the reasons people want to talk
26:45
Speaker 1: about the crimes they've committed, especially a guy like this
26:48
Speaker 1: that went from bum to celebrity, how by killing and
26:51
Speaker 1: then boasting about killing, and then at least arguably boasting
26:55
Speaker 1: about even killing people that maybe he didn't to doctor
26:58
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree, down South Carolina medical examine or author of
27:02
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor dupre, let's get real about
27:07
Speaker 1: murder and a murder scene. They are horrible. You go
27:12
Speaker 1: to a murder scene, it smells. It smells of decay,
27:16
Speaker 1: it smells of blood. I can't really describe that smell
27:20
Speaker 1: of human blood that coagulates and gets sticky, and it's
27:24
Speaker 1: all over everything, and there's hair stuck in it. It's
27:30
Speaker 1: something you'll never forget once you smell it, once you
27:35
Speaker 1: see it, once you're in that room or in that
27:37
Speaker 1: open field, once you see that first homicide victim. It's
27:44
Speaker 1: not glamorous, it's awful, and it is stuck with me
27:47
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life, Doctor Michelle Dupre. Nancy,
27:50
Speaker 1: You're right, you will never forget that. There's nothing like
27:54
Speaker 1: the smell of blood. It's that whether it's a rust
27:58
Speaker 1: or whatever kind of smell it is, you don't forget it.
28:01
Speaker 1: There's just nothing like it. One thing though, most murder
28:05
Speaker 1: scenes have many similarities, but yet they're all very, very different.
28:09
Speaker 1: And so when we walked through a crime scene, we're
28:12
Speaker 1: looking for a couple of things. We're kind of looking
28:14
Speaker 1: to see if it's organized or disorganized. A murder scene,
28:18
Speaker 1: it's a murder, but when we try to determine if
28:20
Speaker 1: it's organized or disorganized, that will tell us something about
28:23
Speaker 1: the killer. And that's one clue that we actually can
28:26
Speaker 1: have that will do something for us. Crime stories with
28:41
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, the first compression was Lucas was just a
28:47
Speaker 1: dirt ball. I was horrified by the smell. He was
28:55
Speaker 1: one eyed and his other eye dripped. He had three,
29:01
Speaker 1: maybe four teeth. He was a pitiful looking gentleman. Really
29:08
Speaker 1: smelled bad. A dirt ball, missing teeth. How the heck
29:13
Speaker 1: did this guy charm anybody? I mean, when you look
29:16
Speaker 1: back at some serial killers, some people, not me, of course,
29:20
Speaker 1: think they're attractive, like Bundy. They function in our society
29:26
Speaker 1: normally seemingly like BTK buying torture killed. Dennis Rader was
29:31
Speaker 1: a dogcatcher, which told me a lot about him. Right there,
29:34
Speaker 1: that had a wife and children, was a deacon at
29:36
Speaker 1: his church. This guy, how did he get access to women,
29:41
Speaker 1: much less hundreds of them? He smelled, he had a
29:44
Speaker 1: roving I literally three or four teeth. What did they
29:49
Speaker 1: feel sorry for him? And then he attacked them. You're
29:52
Speaker 1: hearing from our friends over at Netflix saying the confession
29:55
Speaker 1: killer about potentially the most prolific serial killer in US history.
29:59
Speaker 1: And here's the big question. If he didn't kill all
30:02
Speaker 1: the victims, then who did victims family is now demanding
30:06
Speaker 1: new investigations into six hundred murders. Lucas admitted to straight
30:12
Speaker 1: out to and Emerson WCIV ABC four cops coaxing him
30:17
Speaker 1: into confession in exchange for milkshakes and national coverage. I mean,
30:23
Speaker 1: he's talking about everything he has. Does he not understand
30:26
Speaker 1: that authorities are playing him like a fiddle and Emerson
30:28
Speaker 1: to get more information from him? Well? Absolutely, I mean
30:31
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things going on. And
30:32
Speaker 1: back to that point of who would let somebody like
30:34
Speaker 1: this end? There were some he talked about how he
30:37
Speaker 1: looked so pathetic. He come to a door and he
30:39
Speaker 1: would open the door and they would say he would say,
30:42
Speaker 1: can I get a glass of water? And he goes
30:43
Speaker 1: that was their mistake. They would let me in the
30:46
Speaker 1: front door. That sort of pathetic nature that he played
30:51
Speaker 1: on that as well, he knew that he looked pathetic
30:54
Speaker 1: and that's why people trusted him. These women trusted him.
30:58
Speaker 1: He said. Now, as far as happened with the law enforcement,
31:01
Speaker 1: you know, this was innovative. Back then. They had an
31:04
Speaker 1: investigative task force brought in from all over the country
31:07
Speaker 1: twenty six states where they wanted to find answers for families.
31:11
Speaker 1: They were desperate to find answers, and this guy was
31:14
Speaker 1: willing to not only give um answers, draw pictures of
31:17
Speaker 1: these women, who had a whole notebook full of pictures.
31:21
Speaker 1: They would send these pictures all over the country. I mean,
31:24
Speaker 1: this was an orchestrated event, and it was getting fed
31:27
Speaker 1: by this need to find answers for people who had
31:32
Speaker 1: been missing loved ones for years now. But the problem
31:35
Speaker 1: here is is that at the same time, we've got
31:38
Speaker 1: this feeding frenzy on serial killer fascination happening. At the
31:42
Speaker 1: same time, the idea of a serial killer is a
31:47
Speaker 1: new phenomenon. Supposedly, you know, this is like all those
31:50
Speaker 1: sudden people are learning what a serial killer is, and
31:53
Speaker 1: there is this morbid fascination that we're also feating. So
31:57
Speaker 1: it's like the perfect storm. It's the perfect storm for
32:01
Speaker 1: someone like this to basically get away with murder or
32:06
Speaker 1: confessed to a bunch of ones that he never did. Well,
32:08
Speaker 1: here's the kicker. And this is not about politics. You
32:11
Speaker 1: know how I hate talking about politics. I don't like
32:13
Speaker 1: Republicans and I don't like Democrats. I don't like Greens.
32:16
Speaker 1: I don't like any of them because I think they're
32:18
Speaker 1: all lying. But I can tell you this, George W.
32:21
Speaker 1: Bush commuted his descendance shocker, Yes, oh yes he did.
32:27
Speaker 1: Bush commuted his sentence, his death sentence when he was
32:32
Speaker 1: a Texas governor because he did not believe he had
32:35
Speaker 1: committed a murder that he had admitted to. Right now,
32:40
Speaker 1: families all over the country are begging for cases to
32:43
Speaker 1: be reopened with the thought that this guy, Henry Lee
32:48
Speaker 1: Lucas is the killer. How many people did he kill?
32:54
Speaker 1: I know Marla Sharp, twenty six, was killed in her
32:56
Speaker 1: Provo apartment while her roommates were out. She's absolutely beautiful,
33:02
Speaker 1: a Utah college student murdered. And there are so many more,
33:07
Speaker 1: their families begging did you hear what Anne just said,
33:12
Speaker 1: doctor Bober? How he would approach people at their door,
33:15
Speaker 1: maybe this girl, this Utah college student, and say, man,
33:20
Speaker 1: I have a glass of water. I mean, it's hard
33:22
Speaker 1: to turn down somebody who just wants a glass of water. Bober. Yeah, Nancy,
33:26
Speaker 1: it's very similar to what Bundy did when he was
33:28
Speaker 1: walking around on college campuses with a you know, a
33:31
Speaker 1: splint and holding books in his hands. Can you just
33:33
Speaker 1: help me with these books and just open the other
33:36
Speaker 1: door of the car for me. I mean, it's it's
33:38
Speaker 1: part of the psychopathic mentality, which is exploiting people's vulnerabilities
33:42
Speaker 1: because people, by nature are good and they want to help,
33:46
Speaker 1: and you know, you use that against them to get
33:47
Speaker 1: what you want. Guys, we are talking about a serial killer,
33:50
Speaker 1: Henry Lee Lucas, and it's amazing to me that while
33:55
Speaker 1: he is behind bars, he walks around freely, practically lives
34:01
Speaker 1: off strawberry milkshakes, and is treated more like an assistant
34:05
Speaker 1: of trustee than a serial killer. Um, what is his
34:11
Speaker 1: exact murder count? We don't know. Evidence that he points
34:15
Speaker 1: to including a bag of bones. Okay, doctor bow Bran,
34:19
Speaker 1: need to shrink again really quickly. He had a bag
34:22
Speaker 1: of bones. Well again, you know, many killers will keep
34:26
Speaker 1: trophies of their victims, but with this guy, it's really
34:29
Speaker 1: hard to know which of the actual murders and which
34:32
Speaker 1: is just sort of braggadocio. I want to go back
34:34
Speaker 1: to Anne Emerson WCIV and what is a realistic tally
34:40
Speaker 1: of how many murders Henry Lee Lucas is responsible for?
34:44
Speaker 1: And what is the resistance of reopening cases? I don't
34:49
Speaker 1: understand it. I mean, how hard is it to reopen
34:51
Speaker 1: a case and try to get a DNA match with
34:53
Speaker 1: all the revolutionary new DNA technology, and you know, and
34:56
Speaker 1: they're gonna push so hard for this. I think that
34:58
Speaker 1: there are some communities, that law enforcement communities that are
35:02
Speaker 1: going to be more open to it because it's just
35:04
Speaker 1: so obvious that there was a mistake here. It could
35:07
Speaker 1: be up to one hundreds. He never would This guy
35:11
Speaker 1: would never even give a real number of women he
35:17
Speaker 1: killed in certain areas. He was vague, And so we're
35:20
Speaker 1: looking at you know, he threw out that hundred women
35:24
Speaker 1: number at the very top. I would I think that
35:27
Speaker 1: they're looking somewhere around that range, because yes, he did.
35:30
Speaker 1: You know, as soon as you discounted this guy for
35:33
Speaker 1: not being a killer, he would point you to a
35:35
Speaker 1: deer stand where there were bones, where there was a
35:38
Speaker 1: credibility there. We just don't know how far he took this. Well,
35:41
Speaker 1: we know right now is that certain cases aren't being reopen,
35:46
Speaker 1: but very few listen. It all started when Marla's cousin
35:50
Speaker 1: met Kara Porter with the Utah Old Case Coalition. I
35:52
Speaker 1: gave her what information I had and just asked her
35:56
Speaker 1: if she could take a second look at it, that
35:58
Speaker 1: I would appreciate that I had never thought that Henry
36:02
Speaker 1: Lucas committed the murder. Three months later, Valerie Colgan's phone rang.
36:06
Speaker 1: She said, we don't believe that he did it either.
36:09
Speaker 1: HERR says they found new evidence that proves Lucas didn't
36:13
Speaker 1: do it. This week, the Provo Police Department says they
36:16
Speaker 1: have reopened Marla's case. This monster is out there doing
36:19
Speaker 1: who knows what. Each day, Leah says she thinks about
36:22
Speaker 1: her sister and what happened on that tragic day. Now,
36:26
Speaker 1: she says, she hopes to find the truth one she
36:29
Speaker 1: already thought she had one years later. It's gonna be really,
36:35
Speaker 1: really difficult. Kara Porter with the Utah Cold Case Coalition
36:39
Speaker 1: tells me that she believes Henry Lee Lucas could have
36:42
Speaker 1: wrongly confessed to more than ninety murders. That's why the
36:45
Speaker 1: coalition has decided to start a Facebook page and a
36:48
Speaker 1: website to help other families find out who actually killed
36:52
Speaker 1: their loved ones. You're hearing our friends at Fox thirteen
36:55
Speaker 1: News as Utah reporters Sydney Glynn. Can you imagine losing
37:00
Speaker 1: your loved one to murder and never having an answer?
37:06
Speaker 1: The hell that would be? We wait as justice unfolds,
37:13
Speaker 1: and to Henry Lee Lucas wrought in hell. Nancy Grace cried,
37:19
Speaker 1: story siding off, goodbye friend,