Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Spoiled Saturdays: Across the Spider-Verse

Transcript

Spoiled Saturdays: Across the Spider-Verse · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and I'm welcome to Steffan Never
0:07
Speaker 1: Told You production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to another edition
0:21
Speaker 1: of Spoiled Saturdays.
0:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we've only.
0:24
Speaker 1: Done one of these. It's been a minute since we've
0:26
Speaker 1: done two. Okay, we've definitely done something that was like
0:31
Speaker 1: in the realm of Spoiled Saturdays. I don't know if
0:33
Speaker 1: we'd called it that yet. Yeah, but yeah, I'm excited.
0:39
Speaker 1: I'm excited. But yes, as the titles suggest, spoilers, massive spoilers,
0:44
Speaker 1: everything spoiled. So if you don't want to be spoiled
0:47
Speaker 1: on the new Spider Verse movie, go away, come back,
0:51
Speaker 1: go live alone, people, come on, yeah, come on. As
0:54
Speaker 1: I was doing this, I realized we never did the
0:57
Speaker 1: first one. We kind of talked about it in the
1:02
Speaker 1: No we never did it. We talked about it briefly
1:05
Speaker 1: in our superhero themed holiday feminist movies around the world
1:09
Speaker 1: where we did like Batman and Iron Man three Expider first.
1:15
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know, because we need to come back
1:18
Speaker 2: to it then we should.
1:19
Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts on that. As I was
1:22
Speaker 1: doing this, I had such a glorious moment of it's
1:26
Speaker 1: so nice when you just know something so well that
1:29
Speaker 1: I'm just writing from the heart right, I don't want to.
1:34
Speaker 2: When we were talking about doing it, I was like,
1:36
Speaker 2: this is gonna be an easy one for you.
1:37
Speaker 1: Just go for it. The hard part was condensing it,
1:41
Speaker 1: to be honest, but I tried my best.
1:44
Speaker 2: Yes, which listeners, he does have a little little warning
1:48
Speaker 2: of side note, keep it brief us joly Annie.
1:52
Speaker 1: For myself, I wrote it in there, don't do it
1:55
Speaker 1: and speaking of because I wanted to go into all
1:59
Speaker 1: these tangents about like the animation and the technology involved.
2:03
Speaker 1: That's not really this podcast, but I did do that
2:07
Speaker 1: on Movie Crush when I did an episode on the
2:09
Speaker 1: first one where I really went in. So if you
2:13
Speaker 1: want to listen to that, I would recommend it. It's
2:15
Speaker 1: very nerdy. I'm talking about like the Kirby Dots and
2:18
Speaker 1: the Kirby Crackle and all this stuff. It's great, but
2:22
Speaker 1: to say, like new technologies have been invented to make
2:25
Speaker 1: these movies. They have an R and D department to
2:28
Speaker 1: make these movies, so really cool stuff. This one has
2:33
Speaker 1: been very successful, It has very been very critically acclaimed.
2:36
Speaker 1: It made more money and it's opening weeks than the
2:38
Speaker 1: first one did all together. So it's doing well. And yes,
2:43
Speaker 1: as Samantha and I were discussing right before, there are
2:46
Speaker 1: two different versions of this movie in theaters. Essentially what
2:50
Speaker 1: happened was there was kind of a complaint about some
2:52
Speaker 1: of the audios, so they fixed some of the audio,
2:55
Speaker 1: and then there's about twenty very small differences in between
2:59
Speaker 1: the two of them. So that's just if you want
3:02
Speaker 1: to look it up. There's some guidelines of the differences,
3:05
Speaker 1: so you can be like, oh, here we go, that's
3:07
Speaker 1: the version I watch. Yes, so I'm going to do
3:14
Speaker 1: a rundown of this plot because it's kind of it's
3:17
Speaker 1: a lot. I feel like I'll just it'll be easier
3:20
Speaker 1: if I just go to just go, just go, okay.
3:24
Speaker 1: So Spider Man Across the Spider Verse is the twenty
3:27
Speaker 1: twenty three sequel of the critically acclaimed twenty eighteen Spider
3:31
Speaker 1: Man Into the Spider Verse, both written and produced by
3:33
Speaker 1: Phil Lord and Christopher Miller. Both of these films are
3:37
Speaker 1: unique in their animation styles. They have two D, they
3:40
Speaker 1: have three D, they have stop motion, different frame rates,
3:43
Speaker 1: bright colors, and just a lot of different stylistic animations
3:48
Speaker 1: like noir, anime, punk, and colors that make them very
3:52
Speaker 1: very beautiful. It is like watching a living comic book.
3:55
Speaker 1: So in the first movie, which yes, I will keep
3:59
Speaker 1: this brief, Ayles Morales discovers a multiverse of alternate universes
4:03
Speaker 1: and their respective Spider People and not even people. Always
4:07
Speaker 1: with their help, he learns to accept his role as
4:10
Speaker 1: Spider Man after the death of Peter Parker in his universe,
4:14
Speaker 1: along the way learning his uncle Aaron is the Prowler
4:17
Speaker 1: who is a villain, and he gets killed by King Pinn,
4:21
Speaker 1: while also strengthening his relationship with his father, who is
4:24
Speaker 1: a police officer. All of the other Spider People are
4:27
Speaker 1: returned to their own universes. The second one picks up
4:31
Speaker 1: pretty much right where that one ended, though it starts
4:35
Speaker 1: with Spider Woman slash Gwen Stacy's POV and going a
4:41
Speaker 1: bit more in depth into her backstory of how she
4:44
Speaker 1: Spider Woman, was blamed for the death of her best
4:47
Speaker 1: friend and only friend, Peter Parker, something that has made
4:51
Speaker 1: her really closed off and has driven a wedge in
4:53
Speaker 1: her relationship with her police chief father, who is determined
4:57
Speaker 1: to catch Spider Woman and bring her to Jess This
5:00
Speaker 1: not knowing it's Quinn and kind of not understanding why
5:02
Speaker 1: Gwinn doesn't want him to do it. After the events
5:07
Speaker 1: of the first film, she missus Miles, who is the
5:10
Speaker 1: first friend she'd made after the death of Peter. While
5:14
Speaker 1: investigating a disturbance, she sees a sort of Italian Renaissance
5:17
Speaker 1: version of the Vulture. And by the way, the song
5:20
Speaker 1: on the soundtrack is called Vulture gets Culture because it
5:24
Speaker 1: happens at a museum and I love it anyway. And
5:28
Speaker 1: he's glitching, indicating that he is from another universe. They fight,
5:33
Speaker 1: and soon Miguel O'Hara slash Spider Man twenty ninety nine
5:37
Speaker 1: shows up from his universe to aid her, and he
5:41
Speaker 1: was introduced as an Easter egg in the end credits
5:45
Speaker 1: of the first one. Actually, he also shows up with
5:48
Speaker 1: another Spider woman, Jess Drew, and together they are able
5:52
Speaker 1: to subdue Vulture. Gwynn reveals her true identity to her
5:57
Speaker 1: father and he tries to arrest her, hurt when accepts
6:00
Speaker 1: Miguel's very reluctant offer to join the Spider Society and
6:04
Speaker 1: escapes into a portal with him and Jess. So basically
6:08
Speaker 1: he's implying he's having to grow and clean up their
6:11
Speaker 1: mess that they created by trying to fix this collider
6:16
Speaker 1: multiverse problem, and he's not happy about it and he
6:19
Speaker 1: doesn't want her in the society, but Jess is like, no, no,
6:21
Speaker 1: I think we should have her in. Meanwhile, Miles is
6:25
Speaker 1: struggling to balance his responsibilities as Spider Man with those
6:28
Speaker 1: of his family and academic life as it comes time
6:31
Speaker 1: for college applications, especially when his family doesn't want him
6:34
Speaker 1: to leave Brooklyn. He also imagines telling them about his
6:38
Speaker 1: identity as Spider Man that he holds himself back, even
6:41
Speaker 1: as his parents suspect he is lying to them, and
6:44
Speaker 1: he misses Gwinn too. He also does not have much
6:48
Speaker 1: in the way of friends, so he keeps mentioning these
6:50
Speaker 1: friends like Quinn, and his parents are like, why haven't
6:52
Speaker 1: we never met Quinn and he's like, oh well. He
6:57
Speaker 1: encounters what he calls a bad guy of the week
7:00
Speaker 1: called the Spots. I'm just going to call him Spot
7:03
Speaker 1: throughout this, but it's the Spot who after the accident
7:07
Speaker 1: with all the alternate universes at the company he worked for,
7:10
Speaker 1: alchem X, from the first one, he has these interdimensional
7:14
Speaker 1: spots and portals on his body. He blames Miles for
7:17
Speaker 1: what happened to him and reveals that he transported the
7:20
Speaker 1: spider that bit Miles from another dimension Earth forty two.
7:25
Speaker 1: Spot learns how to travel through universes using his spots
7:28
Speaker 1: and decides to increase his power to become more than
7:31
Speaker 1: a bad guy of the week. Gwinn and Miles reunite,
7:36
Speaker 1: and he follows her and learns she's been tracking Spot
7:39
Speaker 1: through dimensions. Es tells Gwen to leave Miles behind, but
7:42
Speaker 1: Miles jumps in the portal after Gwyn, taking them to
7:46
Speaker 1: Mumbatan on Earth fifty one oh one, Mumbatan being Mumbai
7:51
Speaker 1: in Manhattan mixed together. They join forces with that universe
7:55
Speaker 1: of Spider Man, Paveteer Prabakar and Hobie Brown Spider Punk
8:02
Speaker 1: as you might know him, to take on Spot, who
8:05
Speaker 1: is draining that universe's collider to increase his power. Spot escapes,
8:10
Speaker 1: but he leaves Miles with this vision of the death
8:13
Speaker 1: of his father, Jeff, who had just been promoted to
8:15
Speaker 1: police captain. While Pavetier is saving his girlfriend, he sees
8:20
Speaker 1: her father, the police captain, in danger, but is unable
8:24
Speaker 1: to get to him in time without dropping his girlfriend,
8:27
Speaker 1: so Miles saves him instead, but Mumbaton starts to collapse
8:32
Speaker 1: because Miles has disrupted a quote canon event. While some
8:36
Speaker 1: Spider People come to do damage control, Gwynn, Hoby and
8:40
Speaker 1: Miles go to the Society's headquarters on Miguel's world, Earth
8:44
Speaker 1: nine two eight, and it's this huge complex with hundreds
8:47
Speaker 1: of Spider people. Okay, so brief aside. I know, I
8:52
Speaker 1: probably don't have to explain this because I've talked about
8:54
Speaker 1: it a million times on here, but cannon is something
8:58
Speaker 1: that is produced when accepted authentic author and in something
9:03
Speaker 1: like Marvel, it's even more than that. It is the
9:05
Speaker 1: current accepted properties storylines, works that are accepted as the
9:11
Speaker 1: quote real ongoing story as decided by whoever owns the property.
9:16
Speaker 1: In this case, it would be Marvel slash Disney, i e.
9:20
Speaker 1: Anything not canon would be something like Legends, which is
9:23
Speaker 1: what it's called in Star Wars and no longer has
9:26
Speaker 1: any impact on the current canon, though a lot of
9:29
Speaker 1: crossover can be had there, which is very confusing, very
9:33
Speaker 1: very confusing. There is also head canon, which is like
9:38
Speaker 1: your own personal idea of what happened, and you keep
9:43
Speaker 1: it to yourself, but that's just in your head. That's
9:46
Speaker 1: how it went and then there's fanin, which is like
9:48
Speaker 1: when a bunch of head canons come together and make fanin.
9:52
Speaker 1: And that can be confusing because you think you hear
9:54
Speaker 1: it all the time because fans believe it. You think
9:57
Speaker 1: that it's canon, but it's fanin.
10:02
Speaker 2: That's a whole TikTok trend.
10:03
Speaker 1: Now I know what to make mistakes.
10:06
Speaker 2: It's essentially I think when people make mistakes or do
10:08
Speaker 2: something that's so common, but it's like they're gonna have
10:11
Speaker 2: to learn for themselves, it's just cannon. It took me
10:16
Speaker 2: a long time to be like what, Yeah.
10:19
Speaker 1: I kept seeing headlines about it. I assumed it was
10:21
Speaker 1: something like very silly, like this is my canon event
10:24
Speaker 1: and you stubbed a toe or something, but I know,
10:26
Speaker 1: I don't know.
10:27
Speaker 2: It's essentially like every person, every fandom or every group
10:30
Speaker 2: of like growing into this age or doing this. I
10:33
Speaker 2: guess it could be like when I say my niece
10:35
Speaker 2: is gonna come to Atlanta, she'll learn for herself and
10:38
Speaker 2: then become more liberated. I guess in that way liberal
10:43
Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's like that's canon.
10:46
Speaker 1: That way interesting? All right, well, listeners, let me know,
10:50
Speaker 1: because I yeah, I.
10:51
Speaker 2: Was, I think that's what I assumed.
10:54
Speaker 1: Well, that's what it seems. You can have a lot
10:55
Speaker 1: of fun with it. I'll say that. So in this
10:59
Speaker 1: case of this movie, a cannon event would be something
11:02
Speaker 1: that has to happen, Yes, because it is cannon. So
11:06
Speaker 1: Miles is reunited with his mentor, Peter B. Parker and
11:10
Speaker 1: introduced to his daughter may Day or May, who Peter
11:13
Speaker 1: had in part because he wanted to raise a child
11:16
Speaker 1: like Miles. Miguel informs Miles that every Spider Man has
11:21
Speaker 1: a cannon event that cannot be changed without wrecking reality,
11:25
Speaker 1: usually the death of a loved one. After a tragedy
11:28
Speaker 1: in his own universe, Miguel attempted to replace another version
11:31
Speaker 1: of himself who is happy, but it led to that
11:35
Speaker 1: universe to collapse, and he did care about that version
11:38
Speaker 1: of his family, but they all kind of got wiped out.
11:42
Speaker 1: Miles realizes that his cannon event is coming in two days,
11:46
Speaker 1: the murder of his father by Spot. He tries to
11:49
Speaker 1: escape to change it, but Miguel imprisons him. Later, Hoby
11:53
Speaker 1: helps break him out before jumping away in a portal,
11:56
Speaker 1: quitting the society. He's a very like fight the System,
11:59
Speaker 1: fight the man. I'm done and they have these handy
12:05
Speaker 1: dandy wristband portal jumping things, which is the gizmo from
12:10
Speaker 1: the end credits of the first one. Miguel orders all
12:13
Speaker 1: Spider People to stop Miles, resulting in a hectic chase
12:18
Speaker 1: or He tells Miles that he is a mistake, that
12:21
Speaker 1: without him his realities Peter Parker would still be alive,
12:24
Speaker 1: and that Spider was never supposed to bite him and
12:28
Speaker 1: the reality the Spider came from doesn't have a Spider Man.
12:33
Speaker 1: So Miles manages to get back to the quote Get
12:37
Speaker 1: Home Machine with the help of Spider Bite also known
12:41
Speaker 1: as Margo, and this is a machine that uses DNA
12:44
Speaker 1: to send people to their home dimension. He returns to
12:48
Speaker 1: his home dimension after realizing that Gwen and Peter b
12:51
Speaker 1: knew about all of this, and he feels very betrayed
12:53
Speaker 1: by that. He reveals that he is Spider Man to
12:56
Speaker 1: his mom, but she doesn't know who he's talking about,
13:01
Speaker 1: and then Uncle Aaron arrives and Miles realizes he is
13:05
Speaker 1: in the wrong reality. The reality of the Spider that
13:08
Speaker 1: bit him was from this reality and it is the
13:11
Speaker 1: one that has no Spider Man, so you can like
13:13
Speaker 1: see chaos outside. Aaron Surprise attacks Miles, and when Miles
13:18
Speaker 1: wakes up, he's tied to a punching bag, which, by
13:20
Speaker 1: the way, is a running joke about Spider Man being
13:22
Speaker 1: a punching bag, and he learns in this universe, Aaron
13:26
Speaker 1: isn't the Prowler Miles is. Meanwhile, Miguel kicks Gwyn out
13:31
Speaker 1: of the Spider Society and she returns to her universe
13:34
Speaker 1: to learn that her father quit his job. They reconcile
13:37
Speaker 1: and he gives her the Portal Watch thing. I'm sure
13:41
Speaker 1: there's official name, but you know that Hobie left for her.
13:46
Speaker 1: She uses it to go to Miles's universe, intending to
13:49
Speaker 1: help him, only to learn he's not there. A team
13:53
Speaker 1: from the Society are there too, Miguel and Jess and
13:56
Speaker 1: Scarlet Spider, who's like the really angsty emo. Spider Man
14:00
Speaker 1: puts together a team to help Miles, including Peter B Spider, Noir,
14:05
Speaker 1: Spider Ham, Pabetier, Hobie, Margo, and may Day. And that's
14:09
Speaker 1: how it ends. Cliffhanger, So in this alternate universe, his
14:25
Speaker 1: dad Miles, his dad is dead and Aaron has survived.
14:28
Speaker 1: But that brings me to one of the things that,
14:30
Speaker 1: of course kept popping up in my feed. The creators
14:32
Speaker 1: have said this is their version of the Empire strikes Back.
14:36
Speaker 1: It has the vision of losing a loved one, but
14:38
Speaker 1: it's inverted because it's so it's sort of like the
14:42
Speaker 1: reveal at the end is that, oh, I'm the villain
14:46
Speaker 1: and oh my dad is dead. Instead of Impire strikes Back,
14:49
Speaker 1: the reveal is, oh, my dad's the villain and he's alive.
14:53
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. But it has a bunch of like if again,
14:56
Speaker 1: if I was left to my drothers, as the cool
14:58
Speaker 1: people say, I would just go in to that and
15:01
Speaker 1: talk about hilarities. And the difference is but one person
15:07
Speaker 1: pointed out, is actually more like Matrix Reloaded, because you
15:11
Speaker 1: get to the end of Matrix Reloaded and you realize, like,
15:14
Speaker 1: this whole time, you thought you were fighting to do
15:16
Speaker 1: the right thing and do good, and there's this whole
15:18
Speaker 1: system in place that is keeping you from changing anything.
15:22
Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting. There's also a big ah.
15:28
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's theory is the right word,
15:30
Speaker 1: but a lot of people have pointed out that in
15:32
Speaker 1: the first one, when Miles and Spider Man first interact,
15:38
Speaker 1: Spider Man has like the red blue like Spider tingle
15:41
Speaker 1: things happening, and Miles has purple and green and they
15:45
Speaker 1: kind of have like this headache moment. And some people
15:48
Speaker 1: have said he was supposed to be that world's Prowler
15:52
Speaker 1: because of the Spider from the other universe. Things went
15:57
Speaker 1: to differently.
15:59
Speaker 2: Like when Uncle and dies he becomes the new Prowler.
16:01
Speaker 2: Is that what it's supposed to be.
16:03
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be. Yeah, like he was because he
16:05
Speaker 1: loved to sell Claren. Yeah, I was following in his footsteps,
16:08
Speaker 1: really wanted to do it. They haven't. I don't think
16:11
Speaker 1: the creators have said if they meant to do it
16:13
Speaker 1: or not, but it feels very They don't usually put
16:17
Speaker 1: anything in these movies without it meaning something, so which
16:23
Speaker 1: leads us too the discussion. One of the big things
16:27
Speaker 1: people have talked about is whether or not there's a
16:30
Speaker 1: trans character in this movie. And so the reason people
16:36
Speaker 1: are talking about that is because quote, the film subtly
16:42
Speaker 1: integrates additional affirmation for the transgender community, and Spider Gwynn,
16:46
Speaker 1: voiced by Hailey Steinfeld, prominently displaying pink and blue hues
16:49
Speaker 1: symbolic of the transgender flag, while her father's police uniform
16:53
Speaker 1: briefly reveals a badge adorned with the trans flag. And
16:58
Speaker 1: so in Gwyn's world, it's very it's watercolor based. The
17:02
Speaker 1: colors are representative of her emotions and how she feels
17:06
Speaker 1: at that moment, and most often they are the colors
17:11
Speaker 1: of the trans flag, and the artists clearly know what
17:14
Speaker 1: those colors are if they have a trans flag featured
17:16
Speaker 1: in two different instances in her world. So the art
17:21
Speaker 1: styles in these movies are very specific to each character
17:25
Speaker 1: and they are meant to communicate something about that character.
17:28
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from one of the creators about the
17:30
Speaker 1: futuristic slash blade runner style that they use for Miguel's world.
17:35
Speaker 1: And you can see the lines on Miguel like the
17:37
Speaker 1: pencil is unfinished. It's kind of a cruel joke on Miguel,
17:41
Speaker 1: who's essentially asserting that the future is written, but the
17:43
Speaker 1: image is constantly undermining his argument and saying, in fact,
17:47
Speaker 1: the future is not completely fleshed out. And here's a
17:50
Speaker 1: quote from Vox. Devotees have pointed out that the Spider
17:54
Speaker 1: Woman is literally Eg has a trans flag in her room,
17:58
Speaker 1: and symbolically EG the experiences the allegory of coming out
18:02
Speaker 1: depicted as a trans ally, if not trans herself. Gwenn's
18:06
Speaker 1: possible transness and even her allyship is a big deal.
18:10
Speaker 2: So from fan the green Casey quote, trans and even
18:14
Speaker 2: SYS fans have every right to say Gwen Stacy is trans,
18:18
Speaker 2: even if the movies never outright confirm it. We can't
18:21
Speaker 2: deny that it's been hinted at. The fact is, if
18:24
Speaker 2: she can make somebody feel represented, who are you to
18:27
Speaker 2: tell them they're wrong. Fans also noticed that Gwenn's father,
18:31
Speaker 2: policeman George Stacy, has a transgender flag that he wears
18:35
Speaker 2: on his uniform. That's notable for a couple of reasons.
18:38
Speaker 2: One of those is that in the real world, trans
18:41
Speaker 2: activists have said that trans people, especially black transgender people,
18:45
Speaker 2: often face discrimination from law enforcement. Said discrimination is a
18:50
Speaker 2: huge reason why trans people don't feel comfortable asking police
18:54
Speaker 2: for help.
18:55
Speaker 1: Yes, and you see him wearing the flag after he
18:59
Speaker 1: accepts her identity a spider woman and believes her because
19:02
Speaker 1: she's continually telling him this and he doesn't leave her,
19:05
Speaker 1: indicating that he is an ally and some speculate that
19:08
Speaker 1: he would only be an ally in the context of
19:11
Speaker 1: Gwenn's potential of being trans if he had a trans
19:14
Speaker 1: family member, then it made me happy because the Mark
19:18
Speaker 1: Hamill gift is going around again of when he says,
19:23
Speaker 1: if you believe Luke Skywalker is gay, he's gay. Yes,
19:28
Speaker 1: but that brings us to the question why not do
19:30
Speaker 1: it outright? Countries censor LGBTQ plus content and studios know it,
19:35
Speaker 1: and they are studios are primarily profit driven. Again, they
19:39
Speaker 1: are not allies. That's what we talked about in our
19:41
Speaker 1: recent episode about what's happening and a bunch of a
19:45
Speaker 1: bunch of these companies in the US, even with this
19:47
Speaker 1: small mention, like I didn't even notice it the first
19:50
Speaker 1: time this movie has been banned in two countries. And yeah,
19:54
Speaker 1: that's what we talked about. With what's going on with
19:56
Speaker 1: Target and bud Light facing backlash. It's not an excuse
20:01
Speaker 1: at all, but that is what they're thinking. And I
20:05
Speaker 1: will note the creators have kind of flat out said
20:08
Speaker 1: that the studio metals they're kind of big sneaky about it,
20:17
Speaker 1: but basically they were fired from Solo. Oh. I don't
20:20
Speaker 1: know if you know that, but anyway, they were, and
20:22
Speaker 1: they have said about that. I always remember the original
20:24
Speaker 1: trilogy were independent movies. Yeah, something else before we move
20:31
Speaker 1: on from Gwen Stacy Gwinn Stacy. It's kind of infamous
20:39
Speaker 1: for an example of fridging. It's not just that, but
20:44
Speaker 1: in Spider Man to the Amazing Spider Man two there's
20:47
Speaker 1: that kind of like slow mow fall that she has.
20:51
Speaker 1: But that's based on the night Gwen Stacy died, which
20:55
Speaker 1: is this very well known comic and when it came out,
21:01
Speaker 1: people were shocked and Marvel received death threats because she
21:04
Speaker 1: was a popular character. People loved her, and she died
21:09
Speaker 1: because it was implied, it was very dark. It was
21:12
Speaker 1: a like stark turn for their normal storytelling because the
21:17
Speaker 1: implication was maybe he had killed her from the whiplash
21:21
Speaker 1: of catching her and that's how she died. But it
21:24
Speaker 1: started this whole thing called Gwen Stacy syndrome because because
21:33
Speaker 1: that was it was such a popular plotline. Even though
21:36
Speaker 1: people were pissed about it and they were heard about
21:37
Speaker 1: it, it became like this iconic scene and in every Spider
21:41
Speaker 1: Man movie, I'm pretty sure literally every Spider Man movie
21:44
Speaker 1: there's some kind of reference of like somebody following and
21:48
Speaker 1: you catch them with the web. It became known as
21:51
Speaker 1: Gwen Stacy syndrome. And it was kind of the start
21:55
Speaker 1: of like, it's just not a safe to date be
21:57
Speaker 1: a woman dating Spider Man. It doesn't matter if you're
22:01
Speaker 1: just like a one off or like you've been dating
22:04
Speaker 1: for a while, Like you are not safe. So it's
22:07
Speaker 1: this whole thing. I would love to come back and
22:09
Speaker 1: talk about that more. And in this movie, Gwen Stacy
22:12
Speaker 1: says in every other universe, Gwen Stacy falls for Spider Man,
22:16
Speaker 1: which kind of implies like love, but it also implies, yeah,
22:19
Speaker 1: a literal fall. Yes, But let us move on for
22:24
Speaker 1: now to canon events and problems with fandom and cannon.
22:30
Speaker 1: We've talked about toxic fandom at length, but that's kind
22:33
Speaker 1: of what's going on here. From the Verge. Here's a quote.
22:37
Speaker 1: It's an insidious, pernicious and this is especially important racist
22:42
Speaker 1: idea that has thrived in segments of the Spider Man
22:44
Speaker 1: fandom ever since Miles first appeared in Marvel's comics, and
22:47
Speaker 1: the way across the Spider Verse subverts it to deepen
22:50
Speaker 1: Miles's lore is one of the movie's most spectacular feats.
22:54
Speaker 1: So they were saying, the real villain is not Miguel
22:58
Speaker 1: or the Spot, it is this toxic fandom. When Miles,
23:04
Speaker 1: who is a teen of black and Puerto Rican descent,
23:07
Speaker 1: was introduced in twenty eleven, there was a huge backlash
23:10
Speaker 1: as sort of like not my Spider Man thing that
23:12
Speaker 1: was definitely soaked in racism going on, and this overall
23:16
Speaker 1: idea that he wasn't as good as Peter Parker, that
23:20
Speaker 1: he was not really Spider Man, which is at the
23:24
Speaker 1: heart of the whole film of Miles being told he's
23:27
Speaker 1: a mistake. If you weren't here, your universe of Spider
23:29
Speaker 1: Man would still be here. You're not supposed to be here,
23:32
Speaker 1: that he's the quote original anomaly that started this whole thing,
23:36
Speaker 1: and Miles saying I'm going to do things my own way.
23:39
Speaker 1: We don't have time to get into this. But also
23:43
Speaker 1: when Miles was first introduced, he was not given a
23:47
Speaker 1: lot of depth. That is not to excuse any racist
23:51
Speaker 1: attacks at all, but it did improve. Like, but that
23:55
Speaker 1: says something too of people say like, well, you gave
23:57
Speaker 1: Peter Parker so much attention in time and depth, and
23:59
Speaker 1: then you introduced this character and really didn't do it.
24:02
Speaker 1: But these movies have and games the games too have
24:06
Speaker 1: really given like fleshed out his character a lot more,
24:09
Speaker 1: there's the idea I saw a quote from one of
24:13
Speaker 1: the creators involved of like encountering this anger from fans,
24:18
Speaker 1: So that has to be the same story over and over,
24:21
Speaker 1: and if you deviate from that in any way, just
24:24
Speaker 1: anger about it. And so on the movie, it's Miles
24:28
Speaker 1: tampering with Cannon that makes Miguel angry, not the dimension
24:33
Speaker 1: jumping villain that is like what really upsets him. And
24:37
Speaker 1: then Canon getting to dictate who gets to be Spider
24:41
Speaker 1: Man when the message at the heart of these movies
24:44
Speaker 1: is that anyone can be Spider Man. I also think
24:49
Speaker 1: there's a moment of that's like examining bad Allyship at
24:52
Speaker 1: the end with Gwenn and Peter b choosing to protect
24:57
Speaker 1: the status quo over him, Like, didn't they didn't tell
24:59
Speaker 1: him any thing about it. They were willing to like
25:02
Speaker 1: just go ahead with this, and then realizing that they
25:05
Speaker 1: were wrong, And then you do have people loved it.
25:09
Speaker 1: But Hope's whole fight the power vibe, this is wrong,
25:14
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be doing it. It is also a coming
25:18
Speaker 1: of age story for sure, realizing that things weren't what
25:23
Speaker 1: you thought that they were, and identity growing up as
25:28
Speaker 1: a superhero for sure. According it to Vox's alex Abod Santos,
25:33
Speaker 1: who I have we've been quoting throughout across the Spider
25:36
Speaker 1: Verse centralizes queer and trans imagery, symbolism, and allegories while
25:41
Speaker 1: creating a Spider Man whose narrative identity operates with a
25:44
Speaker 1: lot of components of a coming out story. So that's
25:46
Speaker 1: actually from movie Web about the Vox article that we
25:50
Speaker 1: have been But yeah, like the whole idea of the
25:54
Speaker 1: fear of telling your guardians, of being told you don't belong.
25:58
Speaker 1: His mother's message of ever let anyone tell you you
26:01
Speaker 1: don't belong fits into all of this.
26:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the quote goes on Rio's worries about her
26:06
Speaker 2: son mirror so many fears that parents of LGBTQ children have,
26:11
Speaker 2: mainly that family acceptance is the easy part, and it's
26:14
Speaker 2: that not being able to protect them from the world
26:16
Speaker 2: that they live in is much more difficult. She knows
26:20
Speaker 2: he has a secret and she'll love him no matter what,
26:23
Speaker 2: but she also knows that not everyone will accept her
26:25
Speaker 2: son as much as she does. And yeah, that's from
26:27
Speaker 2: the Box article.
26:29
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And there are a lot of articles about
26:32
Speaker 1: this about kind of the how queer people connect to
26:36
Speaker 1: that idea of you have to hire this part of
26:38
Speaker 1: yourself and being afraid to share it. So that's really interesting.
26:42
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons it resonates for
26:43
Speaker 1: so many people too. Well, we have to talk about
26:48
Speaker 1: the animation a little bit. We want to rain myself in.
26:50
Speaker 1: But I would say, literally every frame, pause it it's
26:54
Speaker 1: our I did it with the first one. It's really fun.
26:57
Speaker 1: There's so much going on. I remember a lot of
27:00
Speaker 1: people were saying, oh, I'm so overstimulated after seeing it,
27:03
Speaker 1: And I saw it before. You and I went together
27:06
Speaker 1: right on my second time. But my first time, I
27:09
Speaker 1: was in the front row and I was like all
27:13
Speaker 1: the way back like a played interurbulence. Yeah, I mean
27:18
Speaker 1: both of them.
27:18
Speaker 2: I was like, I because I saw have bad vision anyway,
27:22
Speaker 2: and then my contacts often get blurry. But but the
27:25
Speaker 2: way it sets up, I adjusted my contacts a lot, realizing,
27:29
Speaker 2: oh no, that's just that's just the way it is.
27:31
Speaker 2: It's from my vision as I typically think it is.
27:36
Speaker 1: So I did a lot.
27:36
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh god, blinking, so many blinkings.
27:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is really cool, like all the different
27:44
Speaker 1: styles and brain rates and how they interact and it
27:46
Speaker 1: is awesome. I will say, the longest ever animated film
27:50
Speaker 1: produced by an American studio, and it is part It's
27:54
Speaker 1: essentially part one of two. I mean, it's a trilogy,
27:57
Speaker 1: but I really feel like this one and the next
27:58
Speaker 1: one are like a two parter. They said they tried
28:01
Speaker 1: to put it all on one movie, but it just
28:02
Speaker 1: was not happening. A fourteen year old did get hired
28:06
Speaker 1: to animate the lego scene. The creators saw it on YouTube,
28:09
Speaker 1: did not realize it was fourteen year old. They were
28:13
Speaker 1: so impressed. They were like, all right, they.
28:16
Speaker 2: Have a major motion picture under their resume at fourteen,
28:20
Speaker 2: Like they are, They're done, They're ready, like they can
28:24
Speaker 2: make these movies.
28:26
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. There have been some articles coming out lately,
28:30
Speaker 1: which is especially interesting because we're still in the midst
28:33
Speaker 1: of the writer's strike about some animators saying that this
28:37
Speaker 1: was not sustainable. They can't keep working like this, and
28:41
Speaker 1: in the words of this person, the next movie, which
28:44
Speaker 1: is supposed to come out in March, might not come
28:46
Speaker 1: out in twenty twenty four at all because it is
28:49
Speaker 1: so much and several of the animators quit. One called
28:54
Speaker 1: it death by a Thousand paper cuts because of the
28:57
Speaker 1: lack of understanding by Lordly in this article. It was
29:01
Speaker 1: a variety article about how three D animation works and
29:05
Speaker 1: late revisions, so essentially like, at a certain point you
29:09
Speaker 1: want to be I can't just revise this at the end.
29:12
Speaker 1: It has to happen a lot in the beginning. But
29:15
Speaker 1: it was kind of the opposite of that, and apparently
29:18
Speaker 1: he needed to get every sequence approved. But it was
29:23
Speaker 1: interesting because they were talking about what they're talking about
29:27
Speaker 1: with the writers strike right now, and what we've talked
29:29
Speaker 1: about and industries like this and like that, because they
29:34
Speaker 1: were saying, you know you do you want to work
29:36
Speaker 1: on something that you love, and they know that. And
29:40
Speaker 1: also if you leave as an artist and someone else
29:43
Speaker 1: takes over than your name, it's not yours anymore, especially
29:47
Speaker 1: if they fix it at the end of that revision.
29:50
Speaker 1: So they were talking about, like maybe we need to
29:53
Speaker 1: do something with the union or something like that, so
29:55
Speaker 1: we'll see how that plays out. There is also so
30:00
Speaker 1: to add more work onto them. A woman led spinoff
30:04
Speaker 1: called Spider Woman in the Mix. I don't know much
30:08
Speaker 1: about that yet. I don't think they've really said much
30:10
Speaker 1: about it. And then a lot of articles have also
30:15
Speaker 1: come out and I've made the argument that the success
30:17
Speaker 1: of these films shows that people do want to see
30:20
Speaker 1: more diverse representation, that it is more representative of all
30:23
Speaker 1: of us. Here's a quote from MPR and North America
30:27
Speaker 1: Exit tracking found that the audience was about one third
30:30
Speaker 1: Latino and another third black and Asian. Diversity percentage is
30:33
Speaker 1: far higher than for most superhero films. And like, going
30:37
Speaker 1: back to the trans the possibility of a trans character,
30:43
Speaker 1: Like so many people were talking about that, and it's
30:45
Speaker 1: one of those things like I'm really happy that's in there.
30:47
Speaker 1: That's a flag that says protect trans kids in Enguin's room,
30:51
Speaker 1: but it's also so frustrating that it's like those little
30:54
Speaker 1: scraps for your like, ah representation. I mean, I'm super
30:58
Speaker 1: thrilled it's in there, but it's also like we could
31:01
Speaker 1: get more, we could get more. And then, because I
31:16
Speaker 1: have been really good and I haven't gone too long,
31:19
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a fun bit at the bottom, okay,
31:23
Speaker 1: which is just some of my random Easter eggs.
31:26
Speaker 2: All right, Okay, so just behind the curtain here, I
31:32
Speaker 2: saw the outro. I thought it was the end. There's
31:35
Speaker 2: a whole full other page.
31:39
Speaker 1: I was gonna cut it if we went too long, but.
31:42
Speaker 2: We did okay, So it was a surprise.
31:46
Speaker 1: This whole recordings by surprise. I'm just I like to
31:49
Speaker 1: keep you on your toes.
31:50
Speaker 2: You.
31:51
Speaker 1: I like you. You're good. So a couple of random
31:55
Speaker 1: Easter eggs. There is a I believe it's a billboard
31:59
Speaker 1: that says all of it always all over the place,
32:01
Speaker 1: and it's a bagel place, which is everything everywhere all
32:03
Speaker 1: at once, or a love it. There's a venom bit
32:08
Speaker 1: that I love that Donald Gover does show up Donald Glover. Yeah,
32:13
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a couple, not a lot
32:16
Speaker 1: of folks at Marvel's as in the MCUs, because soon
32:20
Speaker 1: this will be Marvel as well. Spider Man like doctor
32:24
Speaker 1: Strange and to Yes, but I really want to go
32:33
Speaker 1: through a very fun list. This is so minuscule. So
32:38
Speaker 1: Polygon has this article where they identified like pretty much
32:42
Speaker 1: all of the Spider people, and some of them are
32:45
Speaker 1: so funny. But please look up the article. I was
32:48
Speaker 1: cackling reading it and I can't believe this is all real,
32:51
Speaker 1: but it is so all these quotes are from them.
32:53
Speaker 1: But I thought, Samantha, you and I could go back
32:55
Speaker 1: and forth with a few of my favorite ones. Okay,
33:00
Speaker 1: let's start with jess Drew, a quote created in nineteen
33:04
Speaker 1: seventy six in a rush to stop an animation studio
33:06
Speaker 1: from grabbing the trademark to the Spider Woman name. Comic
33:09
Speaker 1: book Jessica actually has no real relation to either Peter
33:12
Speaker 1: Parker or Miles Morales, having instead acquired her powers in
33:16
Speaker 1: a bewilderingly arcane origin involving Hydra, her geneticist father, and
33:21
Speaker 1: possibly a talking cow. Spider versus Chess is thus a
33:25
Speaker 1: wholesale reinvention of the concept, though comics Chess did famously
33:29
Speaker 1: have a book in which she did superhero stuff while pregnant,
33:32
Speaker 1: which she did in the movie Yes.
33:34
Speaker 2: Hobby Brown, He was fun. Hoby won the affection of
33:38
Speaker 2: fans by siding with people against their corporate oppressors, leading
33:43
Speaker 2: the downtrodden masses against the establishment, and breaking his guitar
33:46
Speaker 2: over the head of the United States President. I like it.
33:50
Speaker 1: I love it.
33:51
Speaker 2: Oh, she's very English punk.
33:52
Speaker 1: I love that.
33:53
Speaker 2: Yes. In the in the.
33:56
Speaker 1: It's like magazine cut out santamation. So good, It's so good,
34:00
Speaker 1: bombastic bag man. Peter Parker learned to his horror that
34:05
Speaker 1: the black costume he had been wearing was actually a
34:07
Speaker 1: symbiote alien from another planet that left him briefly without
34:10
Speaker 1: any costume to wear around town. But longtime phrenemy Johnny
34:15
Speaker 1: Human Torch Storm Lint a hand, giving Parker one of
34:18
Speaker 1: his own extra suits, a paper lunch bag to put
34:21
Speaker 1: over his face, and a kick me sign surreptitiously taped
34:25
Speaker 1: to his back for good measure. Oh my gosh, I
34:29
Speaker 1: can't believe this.
34:29
Speaker 2: Is real Spider Cat. Which, yeah, you said spider people earlier.
34:34
Speaker 2: There are a lot, a lot of that. He is
34:37
Speaker 2: a spider man and also a cat. The typical cooterie
34:41
Speaker 2: of gamers from Earth nine ninety nine. Spider Cat gained
34:45
Speaker 2: his powers through an encounter with one of the mystical
34:48
Speaker 2: Spider Totems in an untold tale that presumably makes as
34:52
Speaker 2: much sense as any other story involving the mystical Spider Totems.
34:58
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
35:00
Speaker 1: It's a thing Spider verse. But wow, okay, yes, listen
35:05
Speaker 1: to this one, Teter Tarker. Spider Rex is just because
35:16
Speaker 1: it's heterodactyl, all yeah, yeah, but it is spelled everybody
35:23
Speaker 1: p T E t R p t A r k
35:26
Speaker 1: e R. But anyway, spider Rex, a resident of the
35:30
Speaker 1: prehistoric world of Earth sixty six Wildfowler t Rex Peter
35:35
Speaker 1: Darker had a chance encounter with a spider filled meteorite,
35:40
Speaker 1: granting him wondrous spider like powers. In an early battle
35:44
Speaker 1: against his nemesis Nerana Soorman uh Tarker accidentally allowed a
35:49
Speaker 1: tree branch to take the life of the villain, teaching
35:52
Speaker 1: him an important lesson about responsibility. So good.
36:00
Speaker 2: And then we have the Peter parked car, which is
36:05
Speaker 2: an anthropomorphic talking car Spider Man.
36:11
Speaker 1: These are all in the movie movies.
36:13
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.
36:15
Speaker 1: Yes, so all of those work quotes from that Polygon
36:18
Speaker 1: article that's kind of just tracking all of the Easter
36:21
Speaker 1: eggs in there, so please please go read it. I
36:23
Speaker 1: was laughing so hard, but you can feel kind of
36:28
Speaker 1: the it shines through that the fans are making these
36:32
Speaker 1: and they're putting in all of these things. I love it.
36:36
Speaker 1: I love it. Can't wait to go again. Yes, Wow,
36:41
Speaker 1: this was fun. I'm excited about doing another Spoiled Saturdays,
36:45
Speaker 1: So if you have suggestions for that, please let us know.
36:50
Speaker 1: You can email us Stuff India Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
36:52
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter I'm Mom
36:54
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I
36:56
Speaker 1: Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have a
36:59
Speaker 1: teap book store. We have a book. You can pre
37:02
Speaker 1: order it. It is coming out August twenty ninth. You
37:05
Speaker 1: can pre order it at stuff you should read books
37:07
Speaker 1: dot com. We also you can pre order it on Audible.
37:11
Speaker 1: Thanks a zawais to our super producer Christina, our executive
37:14
Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you, Hope I
37:18
Speaker 1: didn't spoil everything for you. And thanks to you. Oh no, yeah, Steph,
37:25
Speaker 1: I'll never told you. This production of iHeartRadio. For more
37:27
Speaker 1: podcasts or my heart Radio, you can check out the
37:29
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or regulusten to your
37:31
Speaker 1: favorite shows