Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 17 September

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The Bolt Report | 17 September · The Bolt Report

0:11
Speaker 1: This is the Vault Report.
0:14
Speaker 2: Good evening and thanks for joining me on The Bolt Report.
0:16
Speaker 2: I'm James McPherson. Here's what's coming up tonight. Tony Burke
0:20
Speaker 2: has finally unveiled Labor's migration policy, but it seems the
0:24
Speaker 2: changes amount to little more than small tweaks, with targets
0:27
Speaker 2: still much higher than the Coalition's and One Nation's. Shadow
0:30
Speaker 2: Immigration and Home Affairs Minister John O'Donoghue joins me in
0:33
Speaker 2: a moment. Talk about the odd couple. Pauline Hanson and
0:37
Speaker 2: Fatima Payman, normally at each other's throats, momentarily come together...
0:42
Speaker 2: to attack Anthony Albanese over staffing arrangements. My panel will
0:45
Speaker 2: talk about that amazing coming together in a moment. And
0:49
Speaker 2: a small village of 300 people has voted to secede
0:53
Speaker 2: from the UK in protest at a government plan to
0:56
Speaker 2: move more than 1,000 male asylum seekers into the town.
0:59
Speaker 2: I'll talk to one of the residents a little later
1:02
Speaker 2: in the show. But first, the Church of England last
1:06
Speaker 2: week gave a prestigious award to a senior Islamic leader.
1:10
Speaker 2: who cares? You say, well, you should care because this
1:13
Speaker 2: story illustrates what I consider to be the incredible naivety
1:17
Speaker 2: of Western elites. The Archbishop of Canterbury presented Hafiz Ashrafi
1:22
Speaker 2: with an award for reconciliation and interfaith cooperation. It's a
1:28
Speaker 2: special award for people who do outstanding work building bridges
1:32
Speaker 2: between people of different faiths. Ashrafi is the chairman of
1:37
Speaker 2: the Pakistan Uluma Council, a group of high-ranking Islamic scholars.
1:41
Speaker 1: Here's a photo of the presentation.
1:44
Speaker 2: You can see there the Archbishop presenting the Reconciliation and
1:48
Speaker 2: Interfaith Cooperation Award to the winner. And in case you
1:50
Speaker 2: don't recognise her, that's his wife beside him. Why would
1:55
Speaker 2: the Church of England give one of Pakistan's most eminent
1:58
Speaker 2: Islamic scholars such an award? Was it because in 2007,
2:03
Speaker 2: as reported in The Guardian, he had decided to honour
2:06
Speaker 2: Osama bin Laden?
2:08
Speaker 1: He was to be given the title of Sword of God.
2:12
Speaker 2: Or maybe Ashrafi was given the Reconciliation Award because in
2:16
Speaker 2: 2013 he was reported as saying that suicide attacks in
2:19
Speaker 2: Afghanistan are lawful because NATO troops are invaders that have
2:23
Speaker 2: occupied the country. Ashrafi later said he'd been taken out
2:27
Speaker 2: of context, claiming suicide bombings were un-Islamic, but he could
2:31
Speaker 2: understand why Afghans might do such a thing. Or maybe
2:35
Speaker 2: Ashrafi was given the award for interfaith reconciliation out of
2:40
Speaker 2: deep appreciation for his support in 2014 of Islamic blasphemy
2:44
Speaker 2: laws that condemn people to death if they insult Muhammad
2:48
Speaker 2: or disrespect the Quran. After all, nothing says I'm a
2:51
Speaker 2: leader when it comes to cooperating with other faiths than
2:54
Speaker 2: if you disrespect us, you'll be put to death. Can
2:57
Speaker 2: you see why I'm struggling to understand how it is
2:59
Speaker 2: that the Archbishop of Canterbury is giving this.
3:03
Speaker 1: Man a prize rather than... a very wide berth.
3:07
Speaker 2: I wonder what Hafiz Ashrafi thought of the Archbishop as
3:10
Speaker 2: she handed him the award. After all, the man she
3:14
Speaker 2: chose to honour said in 2021 that women should not
3:16
Speaker 2: be shown in advertisements. He expressed disbelief that despite having
3:21
Speaker 2: so many good-looking men in the country, advertisers still hire
3:25
Speaker 2: women to represent their brands. In that same year, he
3:29
Speaker 2: also backed the then-Pakistan Prime Minister's assertion that women should
3:33
Speaker 2: wear the hijab in order to protect themselves from being
3:36
Speaker 2: raped by men who were unfairly impacted by women wearing
3:40
Speaker 2: few clothes. I could go on and on with this stuff,
3:44
Speaker 2: but I'll give you just one more. In April of
3:46
Speaker 2: this year... Hafiz Ashrafi told journalists that the war in
3:50
Speaker 2: Iran was not about stopping the Islamic Republic's nuclear weapons program.
3:54
Speaker 3: No, no.
3:55
Speaker 2: It was instead a plot hatched by Jews and Christians
4:00
Speaker 2: who wanted only to deprive the Iranian people of their
4:03
Speaker 2: nuclear power. So here's the Church of England bestowing an
4:08
Speaker 2: interfaith cooperation award on a man who blames Jews and
4:12
Speaker 2: Christians for what's happening in Iran. And to add insult
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Speaker 2: to injury, guess when this award was presented?
4:21
Speaker 1: September 11.
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Speaker 2: There's something almost breathtaking about the naivety of our public institutions.
4:27
Speaker 2: And I think the problem is this. We keep assuming
4:31
Speaker 2: everyone wants what we want. And we keep imagining that
4:34
Speaker 2: every culture is our culture, just with different food. We
4:38
Speaker 2: convince ourselves that if we just offer the right award,
4:41
Speaker 2: if we just use the right language or just bend
4:43
Speaker 2: over a little bit more, everyone will share our assumptions
4:46
Speaker 2: about liberty, equality and human dignity. The problem is that
4:51
Speaker 2: history proves they don't. And the refusal to understand that
4:56
Speaker 2: is not just embarrassing, sometimes it's downright dangerous because you
5:01
Speaker 2: can't build genuine reconciliation by pretending profound differences don't exist.
5:06
Speaker 2: And you can't defend liberal values by assuming everybody shares them.
5:10
Speaker 2: You certainly can't preserve a civilization by congratulating people for
5:14
Speaker 2: occasionally agreeing with you while ignoring everything they've said when
5:18
Speaker 2: they don't. The West has spent years congratulating itself for
5:22
Speaker 2: being so tolerant. Well, maybe it's time we became a
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Speaker 2: little more discerning about what exactly we're tolerating, you know,
5:29
Speaker 2: while we still have the chance. Now, while the Archbishop
5:36
Speaker 2: of Canterbury was handing out peace awards to an Islamic
5:39
Speaker 2: scholar who'd praised Osama bin Laden and supported Pakistan's blasphemy laws,
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Speaker 2: the Church of England in Leeds was putting on a
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Speaker 2: display of tapestry that paid tribute to those killed in Gaza, including,
5:52
Speaker 2: it appears, members of Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas, both
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Speaker 2: of which, I should add, are banned terrorist groups in
6:01
Speaker 2: the UK. Church officials said they weren't aware that terrorists
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Speaker 2: were named among those on the tapestry, which was being
6:08
Speaker 2: displayed as an act of remembrance, honouring all those lives
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Speaker 2: that were lost and the immense loss to humanity.
6:16
Speaker 1: Now, that's an admirable sentiment, although apparently.
6:20
Speaker 2: One with some interesting exclusions, because the tapestry on display
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Speaker 2: in the church doesn't include the names of Israelis who
6:27
Speaker 2: were murdered when Hamas invaded Israel on October 7th. Church
6:32
Speaker 2: Rector Paul Mabry was asked why dead Jews weren't named
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Speaker 2: on the tapestry. For instance, what about the Babass children,
6:40
Speaker 2: two little Jewish boys kidnapped by Hamas terrorists on October 7.
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Speaker 1: And subsequently murdered?
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Speaker 4: Wow.
7:02
Speaker 2: After being pressed to condemn the murder of the two
7:04
Speaker 2: little Jewish boys, the church leader finally conceded this.
7:08
Speaker 1: I condemn all killing.
7:16
Speaker 2: So the deaths of Palestinians, including many who were terrorists,
7:20
Speaker 2: are honoured specifically, but the deaths of Jews, even two
7:24
Speaker 2: little boys, are not treated with any humanity, only with generalities.
7:29
Speaker 2: The perverse part is that on the tapestry being displayed
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Speaker 2: in the Leeds church, the names of the murdered little
7:35
Speaker 2: boys are not recorded, but the names of the terrorists
7:38
Speaker 2: who kidnapped and murdered those little boys may well be
7:41
Speaker 2: listed on the honour roll. The free Palestine mind virus
7:45
Speaker 2: is incredible to me. It makes even church leaders destroy
7:49
Speaker 2: their own moral compass and embrace Islamist killers. Or maybe
7:54
Speaker 2: that's just what happens to a church that decides it
7:56
Speaker 2: no longer believes its own message. They start scratching around
7:59
Speaker 2: for a cause to ally with in the absence of
8:02
Speaker 2: their own members, most of whom wisely fled long ago.
8:10
Speaker 2: I want to talk about Tony Burke's press club speech today,
8:14
Speaker 2: outlining the government's brand new approach to immigration numbers. But
8:17
Speaker 2: before we get to that, it must be said the
8:20
Speaker 2: Greens have been remarkably quiet on the immigration debate, apart
8:24
Speaker 2: from defending mass immigration and attacking anyone who has the
8:29
Speaker 2: temerity to suggest that maybe we should discuss the number
8:32
Speaker 2: of people coming into the country.
8:34
Speaker 1: And that's curious, is it not?
8:35
Speaker 2: Because the Greens are, after.
8:37
Speaker 1: All, an environmental party.
8:39
Speaker 2: So you might think that an environmental party would occasionally
8:42
Speaker 2: wonder whether adding millions more people to a finite country
8:46
Speaker 2: could possibly have some environmental consequences. I mean, more people
8:51
Speaker 2: means more homes, more roads, more water, more energy, more emissions,
8:55
Speaker 2: and generally just more of everything. But apparently the laws
8:59
Speaker 2: of environmentalism have an immigration exemption. be that as it may.
9:04
Speaker 2: Have a listen to the language Greens Senator Nick McKim
9:06
Speaker 2: uses to describe concerns held by a majority of Australians,
9:10
Speaker 2: I might add, that immigration numbers are just too high.
9:14
Speaker 5: When the far right demands migrants be blamed for housing,
9:19
Speaker 5: for wages, for the state of our hospitals, for infrastructure,
9:23
Speaker 5: I don't know, for cracks in the footpath outside people's homes,
9:27
Speaker 5: whatever real or imagined problems that migrants are going to
9:31
Speaker 5: get blamed for next by One Nation.
9:35
Speaker 1: Did you get that?
9:35
Speaker 2: If you're concerned about immigration numbers, you're now far right.
9:39
Speaker 2: I suppose when you're as far left as the Greens,
9:42
Speaker 2: mainstream Australia probably does start looking fairly extreme, which is
9:46
Speaker 2: quite something, isn't it?
9:47
Speaker 1: The Greens think you're the extremist.
9:51
Speaker 2: I love how the Greens caricature the concerns of ordinary
9:54
Speaker 2: Australians blaming immigrants for cracks in the footpath. We know
9:58
Speaker 2: cracks in the footpath are not caused by immigration. They're
10:02
Speaker 2: caused by climate change, obviously. But this little line from
10:05
Speaker 2: Senator Nick McKim caught my attention. Listen carefully to the
10:09
Speaker 2: language he uses here.
10:12
Speaker 5: To stand up against radicalised anti-immigration policies today.
10:19
Speaker 2: Did you hear that? He called for opposition not just
10:21
Speaker 2: to anti-immigration policies, but to radicalized anti-immigration policies. Radicalized? It's
10:29
Speaker 2: a remarkable rhetorical trick, sneaking in the word radicalized to
10:33
Speaker 2: insinuate that your opponents on immigration are only one step
10:37
Speaker 2: removed from the Taliban. All right, I've got a question
10:44
Speaker 2: for you. Is Tony Burke the immigration minister or is
10:47
Speaker 2: he running for office? Because when he stood up at
10:50
Speaker 2: the National Press Club today and started announcing all the
10:53
Speaker 2: things he would do to bring the immigration system under control,
10:56
Speaker 2: I felt like screaming at the television, what have you
10:59
Speaker 2: been doing for the past four years? Because apparently now
11:03
Speaker 2: he wants to start deporting illegals.
11:06
Speaker 1: Now he wants to stop visa hoppers.
11:08
Speaker 2: Now he wants to better target the skilled workers we
11:11
Speaker 2: actually need. If Pauline Hanson or Angus Taylor had announced
11:16
Speaker 2: what Tony Burke said today, I would have thought, OK,
11:19
Speaker 2: you know what, you could make a good fist of things.
11:21
Speaker 2: But when the immigration minister announced it, I thought, where
11:24
Speaker 2: have you been? I mean, aside from at the airport,
11:27
Speaker 2: welcoming migrants from Gaza like their long-lost family. But, I mean,
11:31
Speaker 2: apart from that, where have you been?
11:34
Speaker 1: Actually, before I.
11:35
Speaker 2: Get to what Tony Burke said at the press club,
11:38
Speaker 2: I have to show you his acknowledgement of country. Now,
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Speaker 2: I've argued the acknowledgement of country is unnecessary tokenism. The
11:45
Speaker 2: immigration minister clearly thought it was necessary, but boy, did
11:49
Speaker 2: he give it the token treatment. This is the fastest,
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Speaker 2: most dismissive acknowledgement of country I have ever seen.
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Speaker 1: It's good to be here. here with each and every
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Speaker 1: one of you.
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Speaker 4: Acknowledge country and wonderful to be able to meet with you.
12:04
Speaker 4: Acknowledge elders past and present.
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Speaker 2: Wow, by my count, that was five seconds. Barely. Which
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Speaker 2: is about how much time Tony Burke seems to have
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Speaker 2: spent pondering a lower immigration target. One nation wants migration
12:18
Speaker 2: cut to 130,000. The coalition has nominated around 150,000, 160,000.
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Speaker 2: Tony Burke announced no headline figure today. Net overseas migration
12:22
Speaker 2: was 306,000 in 24-25. just under $ 300, 000 this past financial year,
12:35
Speaker 2: and the government remains committed to a target of $ 245, 000
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Speaker 2: this financial year, which, based on the government's record of
12:42
Speaker 2: meeting targets, could mean absolutely anything, other than lower, obviously.
12:47
Speaker 2: Tony Burke began his speech by comparing immigration, would you
12:51
Speaker 2: believe it or not, to an orchestra.
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Speaker 4: It's a pretty bad orchestra when everything's the same instrument.
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Speaker 2: It's also a pretty bad orchestra if everyone's playing from
13:01
Speaker 2: a different song sheet. I mean, one guy's playing the
13:04
Speaker 2: Australian national anthem, another guy's playing the Islamic call to prayer,
13:07
Speaker 2: another guy's playing chopsticks, which I know has nothing absolutely
13:10
Speaker 2: at all to do with China, but I think you
13:12
Speaker 2: understand what I'm trying to say. The orchestra metaphor relies
13:16
Speaker 2: on everyone agreeing to the same sheet of music. It
13:19
Speaker 2: also relies on a conductor who knows what he's doing.
13:22
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure the metaphor served Tony Burke very well.
13:27
Speaker 2: Tony Burke then cleared up a couple of what he
13:28
Speaker 2: called misconceptions, the first of which was that Australia had
13:32
Speaker 2: a mass migration problem.
13:35
Speaker 4: The first of the absurd claims is that Australia is
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Speaker 4: a nation of mass migration. There are parts of the
13:39
Speaker 4: world where mass migration is something that they are dealing with.
13:42
Speaker 4: It is not something we're dealing with in Australia.
13:45
Speaker 2: Semantics. Two million migrants will have arrived in Australia by
13:49
Speaker 2: the end of Elbow's second term in office. An extra
13:51
Speaker 2: two million people in a country of 27 million sure
13:56
Speaker 2: feels like mass migration. What would Tony Burke prefer us
13:59
Speaker 2: to call it?
14:01
Speaker 1: Mega migration? Migration migration?
14:04
Speaker 2: But I'm glad Tony Burke has found the definition that
14:06
Speaker 2: allows him to sleep soundly at night in the knowledge
14:09
Speaker 2: that as bad as things might be, we're doing better
14:12
Speaker 2: than the Spanish territory of Sueta. Next, Tony Burke told
14:16
Speaker 2: those assembled that the housing crisis had nothing to do
14:18
Speaker 2: with immigration.
14:20
Speaker 4: Housing and the housing shortage we have is not caused
14:24
Speaker 4: by immigration.
14:28
Speaker 2: And then we discovered whose fault the housing crisis really is.
14:31
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at you.
14:34
Speaker 4: Anyone who looks at the migration program and wants to
14:37
Speaker 4: somehow say it was their fault.
14:40
Speaker 2: No.
14:41
Speaker 4: Australians have made a decision about how many people they
14:43
Speaker 4: want per household Post-COVID, after we'd all lived very closely
14:48
Speaker 4: to each other, a whole lot of people decided they
14:49
Speaker 4: wanted fewer people around that had previously been there. And
14:53
Speaker 4: that may continue as a trend. But immigration will need
14:57
Speaker 4: to be part of the solution to help provide some
15:00
Speaker 4: space for housing supply to catch up.
15:04
Speaker 2: So there you have it. The housing crisis isn't caused
15:07
Speaker 2: by bringing hundreds of thousands of additional people into the
15:10
Speaker 2: country with a finite number of houses. It's caused by
15:13
Speaker 2: people like you wanting fewer people in your house. Next,
15:18
Speaker 2: he'll be telling us that a shortage of seats on
15:20
Speaker 2: peak hour Qantas flights isn't caused by too many passengers. No, no,
15:23
Speaker 2: it's caused by existing passengers refusing to sit on each
15:26
Speaker 2: other's laps. But here's what I really don't understand. The
15:31
Speaker 2: Immigration Minister had this to say about visa hopping.
15:35
Speaker 4: There is a problem with visa hopping where there are
15:38
Speaker 4: individuals who would never in fact meet the qualifications to
15:43
Speaker 4: be able to become a permanent resident and effectively jump
15:47
Speaker 4: from visa to visa, use the appeals process... to be
15:51
Speaker 4: able to stay here as long as possible until it
15:53
Speaker 4: eventually becomes absurd to not just let them stay because
15:57
Speaker 4: at that point they have Australian citizen children and at
16:00
Speaker 4: that point they are so integrated into a local community.
16:04
Speaker 4: The different methods of visa hopping I will go through
16:06
Speaker 4: a bit later. We need to deal with it. It's
16:10
Speaker 4: a genuine problem.
16:12
Speaker 2: We need to deal with it. You've been in government
16:14
Speaker 2: for four years and visa hopping's been going on longer
16:17
Speaker 2: than that. So why is it only now a genuine
16:21
Speaker 2: problem that we need to deal with? Why does it
16:24
Speaker 2: require a National Press Club address to announce that something
16:26
Speaker 2: you've had four years to fix is apparently now going
16:29
Speaker 2: to be fixed?
16:31
Speaker 1: You're not running for office, you're in office.
16:34
Speaker 2: Next, Tony Burke announced the government was going to get
16:36
Speaker 2: tough on people who are here illegally.
16:38
Speaker 1: But don't worry, it won't be Donald Trump tough.
16:41
Speaker 4: This is not the sort of operation that some people
16:43
Speaker 4: have seen on TV happening in other countries. This is
16:46
Speaker 4: making sure that we would have an additional 100 compliance
16:49
Speaker 4: officers and we would have an additional 250 beds. We
16:53
Speaker 4: are working through, we already have different alternative places of
16:55
Speaker 4: detention near airports that are available, but we're also having
17:00
Speaker 4: a look at the formal quarantine facility in Melbourne to
17:03
Speaker 4: see how that might be able to be repurposed as
17:05
Speaker 4: part of this as well. Effectively, what we are going
17:09
Speaker 4: back to doing is simply being able to make sure
17:12
Speaker 4: that if you overstay, you will not be able to say, well,
17:14
Speaker 4: there's no consequences.
17:15
Speaker 1: Well, where have the consequences been?
17:19
Speaker 2: Why now are consequences suddenly important? But here's the big
17:23
Speaker 2: question that came out of Tony Burke's much-awaited, eagerly anticipated speech.
17:27
Speaker 2: Why did the Immigration Minister sound like a politician promising
17:30
Speaker 2: to fix the immigration system when he's been the politician
17:34
Speaker 2: responsible for running it? Joining me now is Shadow Immigration
17:38
Speaker 2: and Home Affairs Minister, Senator Jonathan Dunham. Jonathan, before we
17:42
Speaker 2: drill down into some specifics, what was your overall impression
17:46
Speaker 2: of Tony Burke's presentation today?
17:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you've summed it up pretty well thus far.
17:53
Speaker 6: It's like nearly a half a decade on into the
17:57
Speaker 6: Labor government's term in office or time in power. They're
18:01
Speaker 6: now saying, oh, this is a problem, we need to
18:03
Speaker 6: fix it, but then deliver a speech where nothing is
18:06
Speaker 6: going to change. There are a few bits and pieces
18:07
Speaker 6: around the edges, tightening up a few conditions around working
18:11
Speaker 6: holidaymakers or backpackers, changing things for a couple of classes
18:15
Speaker 6: of student visas, et cetera.
18:16
Speaker 1: But beyond that, there is nothing. And the proof point
18:18
Speaker 1: on this.
18:20
Speaker 6: is the fact that their numbers are exactly the same
18:22
Speaker 6: as before he delivered the speech.
18:24
Speaker 1: They're not reducing numbers.
18:25
Speaker 6: There's this sort of steady trajectory down, admittedly, but it
18:30
Speaker 6: is not anywhere near what the number was before COVID,
18:34
Speaker 6: a long-term average of 220,000 They're still only hoping to
18:40
Speaker 6: get to 245,000, which is still too many. So this
18:44
Speaker 6: is the government, of course, that started their time in
18:47
Speaker 6: power in 2022.
18:49
Speaker 1: By saying, well, we're going to clear the backlog.
18:53
Speaker 6: Claire O'Neill, the former Home Affairs and Immigration Minister, bragged
18:57
Speaker 6: about clearing the backlog of visas. They, of course, in
19:00
Speaker 6: that year brought in 550,000 people into the country, didn't
19:04
Speaker 6: build any houses. And, of course, as you've already explained,
19:07
Speaker 6: this is the problem we have. So it was a
19:09
Speaker 6: bit of a window-dressing exercise today and will change nothing.
19:13
Speaker 6: So it's business as usual as far as Labor's concerned
19:16
Speaker 6: when it comes to immigration.
19:17
Speaker 2: As you said, they've kept their much higher target than
19:20
Speaker 2: that proposed by One Nation or by the Coalition. Anything
19:24
Speaker 2: today that gives you hope the government could actually meet
19:27
Speaker 2: its own target?
19:30
Speaker 7: No.
19:31
Speaker 6: They've... admitted today that they slowed down the processing of
19:35
Speaker 6: visas in order to try and keep numbers down. Now,
19:39
Speaker 6: I'm all for doing things in a way that sort
19:42
Speaker 6: of maintain a sustainable number of people coming into the country.
19:47
Speaker 6: But when, for example, you've got working high who actually
19:51
Speaker 6: do fulfil a function in our economy, they are the
19:54
Speaker 6: ones that go out to our regions and pick fruit.
19:56
Speaker 6: They are the ones that work in our restaurants and cafes,
19:59
Speaker 6: particularly in periods of high demand, like in summer. And
20:03
Speaker 6: the government basically turned the tap off. That was their
20:05
Speaker 6: way of managing it. They are now looking at bringing
20:09
Speaker 6: those numbers back on. But beyond that, there is nothing
20:11
Speaker 6: there that makes me think this government is serious about tackling.
20:14
Speaker 1: The situation we have.
20:15
Speaker 6: They talked about some of the legislative changes required to
20:19
Speaker 6: toughen the system up. We are all ready to do
20:23
Speaker 6: a deal that would actually see a stronger migration system,
20:27
Speaker 6: one that actually weeds out the bad people we don't want,
20:30
Speaker 6: brings in the people we need and can have in
20:33
Speaker 6: this country, but until they come at the amendments we
20:36
Speaker 6: proposed to them earlier in this sitting fortnight, we can't
20:39
Speaker 6: do a deal with the government on what they want
20:40
Speaker 6: to do.
20:41
Speaker 2: Just a quick question on that. Are they failing to
20:44
Speaker 2: reach a deal with the Coalition because they don't agree
20:47
Speaker 2: with the Coalition or because Labor members don't agree with
20:49
Speaker 2: each other on the proposals?
20:52
Speaker 6: I'd say it's probably more in column B there, sadly.
20:56
Speaker 6: I think Labor, of course, are very vexed on the
20:58
Speaker 6: issue of migration. They see allowing the gates to be
21:01
Speaker 6: flung open and in the name of compassion let everyone
21:04
Speaker 6: and anyone in, a bit like what Senator Nick McKim
21:07
Speaker 6: said My colleague from Tasmania was saying a bit earlier
21:10
Speaker 6: on that it's our duty to just let anyone in
21:14
Speaker 6: at any cost, whatever ramification that has for our country,
21:18
Speaker 6: for our national security or for our economy.
21:21
Speaker 1: There are people in Labor that feel that way. Not
21:23
Speaker 1: all of them.
21:23
Speaker 6: And I think Tony Burke, in fairness to him, tries
21:27
Speaker 6: to balance that out. Do I think that this government
21:30
Speaker 6: is doing a good job on that front?
21:32
Speaker 1: No, not at all.
21:34
Speaker 6: As borne out by the numbers, as borne out by
21:36
Speaker 6: the kinds of visas they're giving out to people who
21:38
Speaker 6: shouldn't be here. like the Gazans who came post the
21:43
Speaker 6: conflict in the Middle East. I mean, why are they
21:45
Speaker 6: still in this country when, of course, that conflict has
21:49
Speaker 6: more or less subsided and they could return home?
21:52
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of things they do wrong.
21:54
Speaker 6: Nothing they've said today makes me think they've learnt a
21:57
Speaker 6: lesson and are going to change things meaningfully. There is
22:00
Speaker 6: a lot of change required here to fix a system
22:02
Speaker 6: that has become broken over a long period of time,
22:05
Speaker 6: but mostly in the last four and a half years.
22:07
Speaker 2: Just before I let you go, have a listen to
22:09
Speaker 2: this exchange from the Press Club today.
22:12
Speaker 8: Given the public sentiment, how will you be able to
22:15
Speaker 8: argue and win the case to the public that higher
22:18
Speaker 8: levels of migration is the right thing to do?
22:21
Speaker 4: Because the lower levels will trash Australian services and trash
22:25
Speaker 4: the Australian economy.
22:27
Speaker 2: Jonathan, will the Coalition's plan trash Australian services and trash
22:31
Speaker 2: the Australian economy?
22:33
Speaker 1: No, it won't, but it will be a much lower number.
22:35
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that.
22:36
Speaker 6: And you don't have many weeks to wait now until
22:39
Speaker 6: Angus Taylor and I release our.
22:41
Speaker 1: Full policy, which will be costed, modelled.
22:44
Speaker 6: And have a number. People will know how we arrived
22:47
Speaker 6: at that number. They'll know what it means for the economy.
22:49
Speaker 6: And it won't trash the economy because you can bring
22:53
Speaker 6: the number down in a sustainable way, taking pressure off
22:56
Speaker 6: services like housing, health, education, our infrastructure, without trashing the economy.
23:02
Speaker 6: It's about who you bring in. This is not rocket science.
23:05
Speaker 6: I know the migration system is complex in many respects,
23:08
Speaker 6: but choosing who comes into our country, what contribution they're
23:12
Speaker 6: going to make, and they shouldn't come here if they're
23:14
Speaker 6: not going to make a contribution in broad terms, That
23:16
Speaker 6: is not rocket science. So in a few weeks, you'll
23:19
Speaker 6: be able to see how you can actually bring the
23:21
Speaker 6: number down in a sustainable way without trashing our economy.
23:25
Speaker 2: Jonathan, every time I talk to you, I just think,
23:27
Speaker 2: I wish he wasn't leaving politics. It's great chatting and
23:31
Speaker 2: I appreciate you giving me your time tonight. All right,
23:34
Speaker 2: stick around. Coming up after the break, I'll speak to
23:36
Speaker 2: a resident in the idyllic English town of Pittington, population 312,
23:41
Speaker 2: where the government's decided to dump 1,000 male asylum seekers.
23:46
Speaker 2: Local residents are so angry, they've just voted to secede
23:48
Speaker 2: from the UK. You don't want to miss this incredible
23:51
Speaker 2: story coming up after the break.
23:56
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the program.
23:58
Speaker 2: A tiny rural village one hour west of London has
24:01
Speaker 2: voted to secede from the UK in protest at a
24:04
Speaker 2: plan to dump 1,200 male asylum seekers at a nearby
24:08
Speaker 2: former military base. 312 of Piddington's 350 residents turned out
24:14
Speaker 2: for the symbolic referendum and their message to the British
24:17
Speaker 2: Labor government was pretty clear.
24:20
Speaker 9: We had 285 yes votes.
24:30
Speaker 2: UK Prime Minister Andy Burnham has responded, claiming that his
24:33
Speaker 2: plan to more than quadruple the town's population with men
24:37
Speaker 2: who are in the UK illegally is fair.
24:40
Speaker 3: I understand the strength of feeling. It's about fairness across
24:45
Speaker 3: the country. I'm not saying that only one part of
24:48
Speaker 3: the country or one group of communities should do all
24:52
Speaker 3: of the work. It's difficult, and obviously I will look
24:56
Speaker 3: at the issues being raised by the community and in
24:59
Speaker 3: the referendum, but we have to ensure that we have
25:03
Speaker 3: a fair plan as well as getting the numbers down.
25:07
Speaker 2: Well, if what they're doing to the people of Pittington
25:09
Speaker 2: is fair, I'd hate to see what unfair looks like.
25:13
Speaker 2: Joining me now from Pittington is Victoria Hubbix, a Pittington
25:16
Speaker 2: resident who's been extremely vocal on this issue. Victoria, thanks
25:20
Speaker 2: so much for coming on the program. The referendum to
25:23
Speaker 2: secede from the UK, of course, it can't actually legally happen,
25:28
Speaker 2: but it has put the plight of Pittington on the
25:31
Speaker 2: world stage. Was the hope to embarrass the government into
25:34
Speaker 2: abandoning their plan?
25:38
Speaker 10: Thank you very much for having me. Our hope was
25:40
Speaker 10: that they would listen and give us the answers that
25:42
Speaker 10: we need. So far, we have written thousands of emails.
25:47
Speaker 10: We have done our women's campaign. We've done our child's campaign.
25:50
Speaker 10: And we've hardly got anything back. And anything we do
25:53
Speaker 10: get back isn't adequate. So it was really just about
25:57
Speaker 10: making our voices heard and just saying, even though we're
26:00
Speaker 10: 350 people, of which 46 are children.
26:04
Speaker 10: We're not going to take this lying down and it's
26:06
Speaker 10: not fair just to quadruple the people next to us
26:10
Speaker 10: without any consultation and without the right assessments being done
26:14
Speaker 10: that that is the right site.
26:16
Speaker 2: For those of us here in Australia, we'd never heard
26:18
Speaker 2: of Piddington before. Now we all know Piddington exists, but
26:22
Speaker 2: paint a picture for us of what Piddington is like
26:25
Speaker 2: and how you expect it will change with the influx
26:27
Speaker 2: of more than 1,000 male asylum seekers.
26:31
Speaker 10: Piddington is a very small little village. There is nothing here,
26:35
Speaker 10: no shops, no pub. Most of the village doesn't even
26:39
Speaker 10: have any pavements. I think the most exciting bit of
26:42
Speaker 10: news that went on the notice board over the last
26:44
Speaker 10: week was the fact that a tortoise had been found.
26:47
Speaker 10: So there really is not much that happens here. But
26:51
Speaker 10: the concern is that with the asylum base going in
26:55
Speaker 10: and the fact that we haven't had the assurances from
26:58
Speaker 10: the government that we will be safe, is that our
27:00
Speaker 10: children's childhoods, as they know it now, and their independence
27:05
Speaker 10: will disappear. And the incredible community that we have, we
27:08
Speaker 10: will all just become very reclusive and just kind of
27:11
Speaker 10: live within our own homes and not be go out
27:14
Speaker 10: just because of a fear factor of the unknown.
27:17
Speaker 2: You mentioned safety concerns. I read during the week that
27:20
Speaker 2: women in Piddington are taking self-defence classes. Tell me about that.
27:25
Speaker 10: Yeah, so the self-defence classes start in two weeks' time.
27:28
Speaker 10: They are the first one is already fully booked. There's
27:30
Speaker 10: 30 women that are going to it. It is then
27:34
Speaker 10: expected that they will continue and be open to men
27:38
Speaker 10: and women. Really, it's about just how to keep yourself
27:41
Speaker 10: safe if you get put into a situation where you
27:45
Speaker 10: don't feel you are, because the information that we've had
27:48
Speaker 10: from the police locally is that if you find yourself
27:52
Speaker 10: in that situation to run and hide. because there just
27:55
Speaker 10: isn't the infrastructure to support that number of people, as
27:59
Speaker 10: well as the site not having the infrastructure, just the
28:01
Speaker 10: resources around our village. I think there is two policemen
28:05
Speaker 10: for around 45 villages here, and they've already said that
28:08
Speaker 10: if anything happens, it would take them 45 minutes to
28:10
Speaker 10: get here. So it really is about, we need to
28:13
Speaker 10: arm ourselves should the worst thing happen. It may be
28:17
Speaker 10: that we get 1,256 lovely asylum seekers, but because they
28:22
Speaker 10: also change every 90 days, And therefore, over a 10
28:25
Speaker 10: year span, we're probably looking about 50,000 people that will
28:29
Speaker 10: live next to our village. We only need a very
28:32
Speaker 10: small percentage of those to be the unlawful ones, I suppose,
28:38
Speaker 10: that therefore put our safety at risk. And I think
28:43
Speaker 10: our fears were only confirmed by the government, by the
28:46
Speaker 10: leaflets that they've created, that they are handing to the
28:49
Speaker 10: asylum seekers that make them aware of the cultural differences
28:51
Speaker 10: between us.
28:53
Speaker 2: What sort of things were they pointing out that were
28:55
Speaker 2: different that the asylum seekers should be aware of that
28:57
Speaker 2: have you concerned?
29:00
Speaker 10: Just about how women are equal within our country, how
29:05
Speaker 10: you're not to rape children, women, those kind of things.
29:10
Speaker 10: And to me, it just makes us feel like we
29:13
Speaker 10: are a pawn in a game and that we are
29:16
Speaker 10: just collateral damage in what is an experiment to see
29:19
Speaker 10: whether if we remove asylum seekers from hotels, and put
29:23
Speaker 10: them in a military base if that is a better idea.
29:27
Speaker 10: We already know as a village, based on our estimations
29:30
Speaker 10: that we've done, that placing them in Piddington's military base
29:35
Speaker 10: is not going to be cheaper than having them in hotels. So,
29:38
Speaker 10: of course, saving money isn't valid. And we just don't
29:43
Speaker 10: believe that it's been given the right level of assessments
29:48
Speaker 10: that are planning should be given because it's going down
29:51
Speaker 10: an urgent route. And therefore the government is just marking
29:54
Speaker 10: their own homework and bypassing all the things that I
29:57
Speaker 10: would need to do to get planning.
29:59
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you coming on the program tonight and
30:02
Speaker 2: giving us a picture of what's happening there. We're going
30:04
Speaker 2: to have to go to a break, but just before
30:06
Speaker 2: we do, I just got one more question for you.
30:08
Speaker 2: I totally understand why you guys would be upset. On
30:13
Speaker 2: the other hand, asylum seekers have to be put somewhere.
30:17
Speaker 2: So what do you think the government should do?
30:21
Speaker 10: I think until the government know who these people are,
30:23
Speaker 10: then they should be in an detained location. We have
30:26
Speaker 10: a prison about 100 feet from the proposed asylum centre,
30:31
Speaker 10: so this isn't a case of us being NIMBYs. It's
30:34
Speaker 10: just a case that I think until you know who
30:36
Speaker 10: these people are, they should be detained until they are
30:40
Speaker 10: either agreed to have asylum or they are deported.
30:43
Speaker 2: Victoria, great to speak with you and all the best
30:47
Speaker 2: with your fight. I hope you come out in front
30:50
Speaker 2: and you win it. I appreciate you joining me tonight.
30:52
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. All right, we're going to go to
30:54
Speaker 2: a break when we come back. An unlikely alliance has
30:58
Speaker 2: formed between Pauline Hanson and Fatima Payman. They're fighting the
31:02
Speaker 2: government over Senate staffing allocations. And wait until you hear
31:05
Speaker 2: how much the ABC paid Grace Tame to produce a
31:09
Speaker 2: four-part podcast. My panel is up next. Ideology is incredibly important.
31:20
Speaker 2: I mean, your ideology encompasses the things you hold most dear,
31:23
Speaker 2: the things you really, truly believe, the principles you would
31:27
Speaker 2: never compromise. So nothing matters more than your ideology, except,
31:31
Speaker 2: of course, your staffing allocation, which is why Pauline Hanson
31:34
Speaker 2: and Fatima Payman were able to put aside their ideological
31:37
Speaker 2: differences today and join forces to protest what they regard
31:41
Speaker 2: as Elbow's stingy approach to Senate staffing numbers. It's not
31:45
Speaker 2: often you see these two on the same side of
31:47
Speaker 2: an argument. Putting Pauline Hanson and Fatima Payman in the
31:50
Speaker 2: same room would normally be less a meeting of minds
31:53
Speaker 2: and more a meeting of opposing weather systems.
31:56
Speaker 9: If that is not racist, what is it?
31:59
Speaker 11: Senator Hanson has worn the burqa in this place.
32:01
Speaker 8: Maybe it's time that she pack her burqa and go
32:05
Speaker 8: to Afghanistan and talk to the Taliban about this. I
32:08
Speaker 8: kept on giving you the benefit of the doubt, Senator Hanson,
32:11
Speaker 8: despite your repetitive attempts to be racist to anyone who
32:16
Speaker 8: does not look like you. You're not just vindictive, mean, nasty.
32:21
Speaker 8: You bring disgrace to the human race.
32:25
Speaker 2: But despite their not inconsiderable differences, the pair joined by
32:29
Speaker 2: independent MP Dai Lee, they got together and put on
32:33
Speaker 2: a united front to push the PM for more staff.
32:38
Speaker 3: This is not about any.
32:40
Speaker 2: Comments that have been made in the past by any
32:43
Speaker 2: one of us. Deal with the issues that's here today.
32:45
Speaker 10: No Australians.
32:47
Speaker 12: Australians want to see politicians act in a mature way
32:51
Speaker 12: to put their differences aside when it comes to common causes.
32:55
Speaker 12: And we're here demanding transparency from this government. We're holding
32:59
Speaker 12: the government to account.
33:00
Speaker 11: When Labor makes dirty deals behind closed doors, at least
33:05
Speaker 11: we're coming up front, in front of everyone, in front
33:08
Speaker 11: of all the cameras and saying we are united on
33:10
Speaker 11: this cause.
33:12
Speaker 1: See, Anthony Albanese is uniting the country.
33:15
Speaker 2: Joining me now is former Nationals MP and Senior Advisor
33:18
Speaker 2: at Bondi Partners, Peter McGoran, and Christy McSweeney, founder of
33:22
Speaker 2: the PR Council. She's worked with Coalition Prime Ministers and Premiers. Christy,
33:26
Speaker 2: talk about the odd couple, not you guys, Fatima and Pauline.
33:32
Speaker 7: Politics, it makes strange bedfellows when there is money and
33:36
Speaker 7: a transaction to be made, doesn't it, James?
33:41
Speaker 9: And do you know.
33:41
Speaker 7: What in politics, when you are on the back foot
33:45
Speaker 7: or when you have a point to prove, you think,
33:48
Speaker 7: who can I get to stand with me so I
33:51
Speaker 7: can get some pictures of me disproving a narrative about
33:57
Speaker 7: me that's out there? And Di Lee and Senator Payman
34:02
Speaker 7: have walked right into that trap.
34:03
Speaker 9: They have now.
34:04
Speaker 7: Given Senator Hanson pictures of a young woman in a
34:10
Speaker 7: hijab and a Vietnamese multicultural representative standing with her. Now,
34:17
Speaker 7: any smart media person of those two other women is
34:22
Speaker 7: Should have known that. All being said, they appear to
34:25
Speaker 7: be united. I think it's odd. I think the optics
34:29
Speaker 7: are against Dylee and Fatima Payment for what they personally represent.
34:33
Speaker 7: But Senator Hanson has won.
34:34
Speaker 2: A coup here. You know, I'd not thought of that.
34:38
Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't about staffing at all. It was about
34:40
Speaker 2: the photograph that can then be used in One Nation advertising.
34:44
Speaker 2: Very good point.
34:45
Speaker 7: Well, they're getting better and better and better, James, and
34:48
Speaker 7: more sophisticated than we know.
34:51
Speaker 1: I'm impressed if that's what they were doing.
34:53
Speaker 2: Peter, from your experience, how important are staffers for a
34:57
Speaker 2: political representative? How much of a point do these ladies
35:01
Speaker 2: have here?
35:02
Speaker 13: They're at the risk of stating the obvious, James.
35:05
Speaker 1: They're critical.
35:07
Speaker 13: You must have sufficient people to deal with the heavy
35:10
Speaker 13: legislative load because you've got to vote on every piece
35:13
Speaker 13: of legislation. And there are several every week and a
35:17
Speaker 13: number of them are heavily complex. So if you're an independent,
35:23
Speaker 13: that's doubly the case. You don't have any speaking notes
35:27
Speaker 13: or ministerial briefings to fall back on.
35:30
Speaker 1: So, yeah, they need their staff. They've made a good case.
35:33
Speaker 13: I agree entirely with Kirsty. Senator Hanson has played them
35:37
Speaker 13: on a break.
35:38
Speaker 1: Very shrewd.
35:39
Speaker 13: I mean, Senator Payman, you know, she left the government
35:43
Speaker 13: because they weren't strong enough in condemning Israel.
35:47
Speaker 1: And so there's no meeting of the minds there.
35:49
Speaker 13: Di Lee is magnificent. She is a first class local
35:53
Speaker 13: representative and a moderate, if not liberal leaning in all things.
35:56
Speaker 13: So it is a fascinating sight. And it gave me
36:01
Speaker 13: one hell of a belly laugh.
36:04
Speaker 2: Well, I tell you what, if you can't laugh while
36:07
Speaker 2: you're doomed to live through the collapse of Western civilisation,
36:10
Speaker 2: what's the point? Speaking of a good laugh, the Public
36:13
Speaker 2: Health Association of Australia has given Health Minister Mark Butler
36:17
Speaker 2: its prestigious President's Award for supposedly driving down smoking rates
36:22
Speaker 2: and protecting young people from nicotine addiction. But according to
36:26
Speaker 2: the Australian Bureau of Statistics, nicotine consumption actually increased by
36:30
Speaker 2: almost 40% between 2017 and 2025, even though a survey
36:34
Speaker 2: from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare has claimed
36:37
Speaker 2: vaping rates have stabilised and smoking rates are at a
36:41
Speaker 2: historical low. It's been estimated up to 80% of the
36:45
Speaker 2: smoking products people are using are illicit. Peter, I'll start
36:48
Speaker 2: with you on this one. Does Mark Butler deserve this award?
36:51
Speaker 1: No, of course not.
36:51
Speaker 2: It's a nonsense award.
36:53
Speaker 7: Big.
36:54
Speaker 13: Type of ward your mother would give you because it
36:56
Speaker 13: comes from the public sector unions. It's a branch office
36:59
Speaker 13: of the ACTU, the Public Health Association. And even then,
37:03
Speaker 13: the president has confessed that she made a captain's call
37:07
Speaker 13: and it's only a signed certificate by her. So leaving
37:10
Speaker 13: aside the stupidity of it, what's Mark Butler done to
37:17
Speaker 13: earn it? It is true that daily smoking rates have
37:21
Speaker 13: gone down in the four years he's been a minister.
37:23
Speaker 13: But what's he done? It's been an historic trend. The
37:26
Speaker 13: same programs that have been in place for the last
37:29
Speaker 13: 10 years are continuing, plain packaging, heavy excise and advertising
37:36
Speaker 13: by the Cancer Council. Mind you, James, you have to
37:40
Speaker 13: give credit where credit is due. Mark Butler is a
37:44
Speaker 13: competent administrator in a government where you could count on
37:47
Speaker 13: one hand the competent government administrators. I'd put him in
37:52
Speaker 13: the top three, Jason Clare, Education Minister, Don Farrell, Trade Minister,
37:56
Speaker 13: and then the rest fall off a cliff. So Mark
37:59
Speaker 13: Butler's got ability, but he's done nothing to earn or
38:02
Speaker 13: deserve this certificate.
38:06
Speaker 2: The kind of award your mum would give you, Peter.
38:09
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, my mum never gave me any awards
38:11
Speaker 2: at all, so I don't know what that says about me. Christy,
38:15
Speaker 2: there's a job opening at One Nation's team in Victoria.
38:18
Speaker 2: I'm not sure where you're situated in life at the moment.
38:20
Speaker 2: Maybe you're looking for a job. The party's state leader,
38:23
Speaker 2: Warren Pickering, is on the hunt for a right-hand person
38:26
Speaker 2: for the state election. They're advertising for an experienced senior
38:31
Speaker 2: executive assistant with experience working with CEOs, board chairs. You've
38:35
Speaker 2: got to be willing to work full-time, by which they
38:37
Speaker 2: mean weekends and weekdays. The only caveat, Christy, you get
38:41
Speaker 2: paid exactly zero dollars. It's a volunteer role. You interested?
38:46
Speaker 7: Well, the person who takes that role won't be taking
38:49
Speaker 7: advantage of Albo's right to disconnect laws, I take it.
38:54
Speaker 9: They won't be.
38:55
Speaker 7: Paid for the position, so they wouldn't have a leg
38:57
Speaker 7: to stand on if they lodged a case at Fair
38:59
Speaker 7: Work anyway.
39:01
Speaker 9: But I think that One Nation is.
39:04
Speaker 7: probably leaving their run in Victoria slightly too late. We
39:09
Speaker 7: have seen the Coalition's vote continue to increase over the
39:14
Speaker 7: last six months. We've seen One Nation continue to drop.
39:17
Speaker 7: Labor has continued to drop. All being said, they are
39:21
Speaker 7: all roughly in the high 20s, but we don't see the.
39:27
Speaker 9: Coalition vote receding.
39:29
Speaker 7: They have been leading the three parties pretty much for
39:32
Speaker 7: the last six months, and it's been a significant trend.
39:36
Speaker 7: People are looking at local policies here in Victoria. I
39:39
Speaker 7: think there's a service delivery.
39:41
Speaker 9: Election, trains, roads, potholes.
39:44
Speaker 7: That Jess Wilson is talking about, people not getting the
39:47
Speaker 7: services that they were promised.
39:49
Speaker 9: And that local electorate politics... One Nation just hasn't got
39:54
Speaker 9: there in time, I don't think. Let's see.
39:57
Speaker 7: Let's see if their national brand can carry them through.
40:00
Speaker 7: But to your original question, no, I don't want the job.
40:04
Speaker 7: I am not like some other Liberal staffers who have
40:08
Speaker 7: gone to work for One Nation.
40:10
Speaker 9: And good on them. They want to have a crack
40:12
Speaker 9: at it. I don't.
40:13
Speaker 2: Well, here's my theory, Peter. Maybe the Victorian Labor government
40:17
Speaker 2: is so bad, One Nation figured out you don't actually
40:20
Speaker 2: have to pay people to come and help us. They'll
40:23
Speaker 2: line up to volunteer.
40:25
Speaker 13: That's true, but they've got to get in front of
40:27
Speaker 13: the Liberal parties. Obviously, the Labor Party's vote is going
40:31
Speaker 13: to collapse. They're going to have a much reduced contingent
40:36
Speaker 13: in the parliament. And the question then is, which of
40:39
Speaker 13: the two parties, Liberal and National Party, or One Nation,
40:44
Speaker 13: is going to have the biggest block? Because whoever has
40:47
Speaker 13: the biggest block will form the government with the support
40:50
Speaker 13: of the others on the floor of the chamber. So
40:52
Speaker 13: if One Nation thinks this is just a contest against
40:57
Speaker 13: the Labor Party, then they're missing the real goal.
41:02
Speaker 2: All right, speaking of paid work, it was revealed today
41:05
Speaker 2: the ABC paid Grace Tame $ 22, 000 to co-host four 30-minute
41:11
Speaker 2: podcasts earlier this year. That works out to a rate
41:14
Speaker 2: of about $ 76 a minute to sit and talk about
41:17
Speaker 2: her experience with autism. Peter, did we get value for
41:21
Speaker 2: our money?
41:24
Speaker 13: I'm trying not to be personally offensive here, James.
41:28
Speaker 2: Of course not.
41:29
Speaker 13: It's an absurd rate, but they're standard ABC rates, the
41:34
Speaker 13: ABC tells us, so how can you deny them to
41:37
Speaker 13: Grace Tame if you're paying them to every other freeloader
41:40
Speaker 13: on the public purse? There will be an audience or
41:44
Speaker 13: a constituency for the topic of autism especially, and she
41:50
Speaker 13: has said that she's on the spectrum of... So, look, James,
41:54
Speaker 13: it's one of those things that's done now. The ABC
41:57
Speaker 13: aren't exactly promoting it. It's too much money, but the
42:02
Speaker 13: problem is probably larger than Grace Tame, to be honest.
42:06
Speaker 2: Christy, I'd almost become a lefty to get paid that
42:09
Speaker 2: sort of money and work for the ABC.
42:12
Speaker 9: Oh, James.
42:13
Speaker 7: Look, I think it's a decision that invited controversy and
42:19
Speaker 7: I think the Reputation Watchers at the ABC should have
42:24
Speaker 7: been a bit more aware or thought outside their own
42:27
Speaker 7: paradigm when they contracted her after the comments that she
42:33
Speaker 7: had previously made about Jewish Australians. It probably cost them
42:36
Speaker 7: more in legal fees for someone to draft her apology.
42:40
Speaker 1: Indeed. All right, we're going to go to a break.
42:43
Speaker 2: When we come back, I want to talk about the
42:45
Speaker 2: late Princess Diana. 30 years after her tragic death, the
42:50
Speaker 2: royals are still warring over her. That's coming up next.
42:58
Speaker 2: Buckingham Palace has accused Earl Spencer, the brother of the
43:01
Speaker 2: late Princess Diana, of having clouded reasoning. It's a very
43:06
Speaker 2: royal way of saying we think you're talking absolute rubbish.
43:09
Speaker 2: The row follows the publication of Spencer's new book, which
43:12
Speaker 2: revisits Diana's childhood, her unhappy marriage to Charles, the aftermath
43:17
Speaker 2: of her death almost 30 years ago. But the explosive claim...
43:21
Speaker 2: concerns a conversation Spencer says he had with the then
43:24
Speaker 2: Prince Charles in the days right after Diana's death. Apparently,
43:29
Speaker 2: the two were discussing whether William and Harry should walk
43:32
Speaker 2: behind their mother's coffin at the funeral procession. And according
43:36
Speaker 2: to Spencer, Charles ended the conversation by saying, and I quote,
43:41
Speaker 2: rest assured we'll forget her soon enough. Buckingham Palace says
43:46
Speaker 2: Spencer's recollection is wrong. So I have two questions for
43:51
Speaker 2: my panel. I'll bring the guys back in here. First,
43:55
Speaker 2: who's remembering the past accurately? And second, why is this
43:59
Speaker 2: family still fighting over Diana nearly three decades after her death, Christy?
44:06
Speaker 7: I do remember the discussion at the time about William
44:09
Speaker 7: and Harry walking behind the coffin and just how awful
44:15
Speaker 7: it looked for those two boys who had just lost
44:17
Speaker 7: their mother and having to do that in the line
44:20
Speaker 7: of public duty and public viewing. Obviously Princess Diana is
44:25
Speaker 7: buried at Althorpe Earl Spencer's family estate and Diana's ancestral home.
44:30
Speaker 7: So I suppose that gives him a reason to think
44:33
Speaker 7: about it. But how many members of the royal family
44:36
Speaker 7: have to write books airing their own dirty laundry? If
44:40
Speaker 7: you have a gripe with Charles 30 years later and
44:43
Speaker 7: his recollection may be his version of the truth as
44:46
Speaker 7: he remembers it and the king's version will be the
44:49
Speaker 7: version of the truth as he remembers it if he
44:51
Speaker 7: remembers the conversation at all. But don't air your dirty
44:56
Speaker 7: laundry in public under the guise of defending your late sister,
45:01
Speaker 7: who everybody loved.
45:04
Speaker 9: And I just don't think it's necessary.
45:06
Speaker 2: Is it?
45:08
Speaker 1: I don't think so. In fact, Peter, I don't know.
45:10
Speaker 2: I mean, you might make some coin from book sales,
45:12
Speaker 2: but surely the Earl is not going to endear himself
45:16
Speaker 2: to anybody in the UK with this sort of stuff.
45:19
Speaker 2: Even if it were true 30 years later, why would
45:22
Speaker 2: you do it aside from the coin?
45:24
Speaker 13: Well, Earl Spencer hasn't endeared himself to anybody, let alone
45:29
Speaker 13: the royal family, in England for decades. He's led a
45:34
Speaker 13: life basically of debauchery. Ask his several wives that he's
45:39
Speaker 13: abandoned and persecuted what they think of him. He's not
45:44
Speaker 13: regarded as an admirable character, let alone a reliable witness.
45:51
Speaker 13: I unhesitatingly side with King Charles's recollection of that phone call.
45:57
Speaker 2: I'm sure in.
46:01
Speaker 13: The character of Earl Spence, it was a hotly contested call.
46:06
Speaker 13: But there's no way in the world Prince Charles, the
46:10
Speaker 13: man that he is and has proven to be, said
46:14
Speaker 13: those cruel words. It would have been an argument. He
46:17
Speaker 13: might very well have slammed down the phone, given everything
46:19
Speaker 13: that went before it. It was the wrong decision to
46:22
Speaker 13: make the boys or persuade them to walk behind their
46:26
Speaker 13: mother's coffin. I think it's obvious Prince Harry is living
46:30
Speaker 13: with that trauma even today.
46:32
Speaker 1: But the Earl of Spencer is in the rubbish end
46:37
Speaker 1: of the British aristocracy. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
46:40
Speaker 2: All right, before we go, I want to talk to
46:42
Speaker 2: you both about Labor's decision to finally scrap the $ 5, 000
46:45
Speaker 2: veterans health care cap. They're going to scrap it for
46:49
Speaker 2: good after the coalition blocked a proposal in the Senate,
46:52
Speaker 2: sent it back to the lower house. But the saga
46:55
Speaker 2: isn't over yet because the opposition say the cap firstly
46:57
Speaker 2: should never have been proposed and second, that the veteran
47:00
Speaker 2: affairs minister, Matt Keogh, should be sacked and for his
47:04
Speaker 2: mismanagement of the whole affair. Have a listen to Shadow
47:07
Speaker 2: Defence Personnel Minister Phil Thompson, a veteran himself. He gave
47:12
Speaker 2: a very emotional press conference earlier today. Have a listen.
47:17
Speaker 2: I know what it's like to carry a coffin. I
47:19
Speaker 2: know what it's like when your friends are no longer there.
47:27
Speaker 5: Sorry.
47:29
Speaker 1: This is personal for me because it's my family.
47:32
Speaker 2: It's my people. And this minister had failed continually. This
47:37
Speaker 2: Prime Minister has failed continually. And when the veterans came
47:40
Speaker 2: to Canberra to seek a meeting, they weren't even able
47:43
Speaker 2: to get in the room with Minister Matt Keogh. And
47:46
Speaker 2: it's just disgraceful. Peter, I'll start with you on this one.
47:50
Speaker 2: Should the minister be sacked? Yes, and he will be moved.
47:55
Speaker 13: Of that you can be sure.
47:56
Speaker 1: But not immediately.
47:57
Speaker 13: That's not the Albanese style. But they'll shift him on.
48:01
Speaker 13: You cannot have... a veterans affairs minister and defence personnel
48:07
Speaker 13: who loses the confidence and has incited contempt. So Keogh
48:14
Speaker 13: has failed.
48:15
Speaker 1: He's cost the.
48:16
Speaker 13: Government a great deal of support in a critically important constituency,
48:21
Speaker 13: because it's not just about the individuals, it's their families,
48:23
Speaker 13: it's the former servicemen and women and so on.
48:27
Speaker 1: You watch.
48:28
Speaker 13: Next reshuffle, he'll go off to an even minor portfolio
48:31
Speaker 13: or maybe even leave the ministry.
48:34
Speaker 2: Christy, it wasn't just that this policy was poorly conceived.
48:38
Speaker 2: The minister didn't even meet with veterans until he was
48:40
Speaker 2: pushed to do so. In terms of communications, it's an
48:43
Speaker 2: epic fail.
48:45
Speaker 7: I think that really sunk Minister Keogh, the fact that
48:49
Speaker 7: he didn't meet with the veterans, he resisted their request
48:52
Speaker 7: when they turned up to Canberra. He would have had notice,
48:56
Speaker 7: I'm sure, although don't quote me on that. I'm not
48:59
Speaker 7: sure of the circumstances of making the request. And then
49:02
Speaker 7: to finally meet with them under duress and to tell
49:05
Speaker 7: them that he was missing an engagement with the Governor-General
49:10
Speaker 7: that he was looking forward to and, you know, I'm
49:12
Speaker 7: reluctantly here meeting with you. my core constituency. I think
49:17
Speaker 7: the way that that played out in the media, that
49:20
Speaker 7: sunk him, that diluted significant public trust in the Albanese's
49:24
Speaker 7: government handling of this issue. He consistently got up in
49:28
Speaker 7: Parliament saying, I've consulted with the industry.
49:31
Speaker 2: It didn't seem that way. Sorry, Christy, I'm going to
49:34
Speaker 2: have to cut you off. We've run out of time.
49:35
Speaker 2: But you're totally right. It's just been an absolute mess.
49:38
Speaker 2: Thanks to both of you for coming on the show.
49:40
Speaker 2: Always great talking. That's it from me. Do not go anywhere.
49:43
Speaker 2: Here is Shari Markson.