Latest / Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza / Ep.79 – Pete Burak On Why Catholic Men Must Lead With Grit & Grace | Catholic Dads | Spiritual Leadership | Courage | Raising Boys

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Ep.79 – Pete Burak On Why Catholic Men Must Lead With Grit & Grace | Catholic Dads | Spiritual Leadership | Courage | Raising Boys · Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza

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  You could argue the primary leave behind for Jesus.
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  He left behind the sacraments. He left behind His teachings,
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  but he left behind men and women who had been formed into Him who
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  then, through the power of the Holy Spirit, were able to go out
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  and replicate Him and to do what He had done in them in others.
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  This is Virtuous Leaders, the podcast for based Catholics who
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  will speak truth, do good, or die trying.
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  Here's the show. Pete, you're the Vice President
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  of Renewal Ministries and the host of the Spirit Filled
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  Leadership podcast. Thanks for joining today.
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  Thanks. It's good to be with you.
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  Can you fill us in a little bit more about what do you do?
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  Sir Yeah. So within Renewal Ministries,
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  our mission is to help preach the gospel and help people meet
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  Jesus, fall in love with them, begin to share them with others.
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  Our heart is evangelization and renewal within and through the
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  Catholic Church. And so that takes lots of
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  different forms. We have lots of different ways
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  that the Holy Spirit has, I think, LED us, hopefully
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  directed us to have impact in the world and in the church.
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  So media and writing and preaching and teaching and
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  ministry to priests and light people, some youth ministry
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  efforts and camps. So just a lot of a lot of
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  international missions. So just kind of from every
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  conceivable angle, as the Lord opens doors for us, we're just
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  trying to bring the message that we feel like he's put in us,
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  both in our, our lived experience, but then also what
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  we feel anointed to, to proclaim.
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  And so at the, at the very simplest level, we're just
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  trying to follow the Holy Spirit that goes through the doors that
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  he opens and not run into the wall in the process, you know?
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  And what do you do with your Spirit Filled Leadership
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  podcast? Yeah.
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  So this podcast was an effort to just kind of be a compliment
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  really to a whole framework of formation that we've been
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  utilizing within the young adult communities that we work with.
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  Because what we realized was like, especially within the
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  young adult, young adult world, but really in the church at
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  large, that anything fruitful in the church, anything we see that
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  we'd go like, wow, that's fruitful.
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  At the core of it is men and women who are disciples
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  themselves, but who have actually been like stepped into
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  some form of leadership that we would call spiritual leadership.
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  Like you could argue the primary leave behind for Jesus.
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  He left behind the sacraments, He left behind his teachings,
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  but he left behind men and women who had been formed into him,
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  who then through the power of the Holy Spirit were able to go
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  out and replicate him and to do what he had done in them, in
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  others. And so the week, we call that
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  spiritual leaders. And so the podcast is just an
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  effort to kind of bring little tidbits of insight and hopefully
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  inspiration and formation to help people become spiritual
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  leaders. We say like the world needs
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  disciples, but disciples need spiritual leaders.
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  Yeah, the way you just described leadership there is actually
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  exactly how I see it too. Inspiring others, inspiring
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  others to bring out the best, bringing out the best in others.
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  So what? What are some of the gems that
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  you've taken out of your experience talking to these
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  leaders? Yeah, well, there's a there's a
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  lot of different things. I mean, I think the best leaders
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  are also very adept at obeying, which it seems like ironic, but
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  everybody's beholden to somebody and everybody needs to learn.
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  You cannot lead if you haven't learned how to obey first.
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  Because part of what you're inviting others into in your
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  direction in your vision is flows from the, the humility in
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  the, the experience of being submitted to somebody else's for
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  a time. And at some level we're all
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  submitted to the Lord. And every spiritual leader is
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  asking 2 questions constantly and every disciple, but every
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  spiritual leader in a particular way, what's God saying to me?
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  And the spiritual leader would also say, what's God saying to
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  us? And then what am I and what are
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  we doing about it? And so at the core, a spiritual
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  leader is preoccupied with the opinion of God to say like God
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  has an opinion about every aspect of life.
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  And not only does he have an opinion, but he wants to make
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  his opinion known. He, he's given us the ability to
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  hear him, to understand him, and then he actually empowers us to
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  be able to live in accord with what he's inviting us to do.
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  And so you got to be humble, You got to be obedient.
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  You have to be courageous. I mean, like anybody who's ever
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  tried to lead anything or kind of step into the, the breach and
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  say like, OK, it's time to try to do something.
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  Because one of my favorite definitions of, of leadership is
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  helping people get from here to there.
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  Wherever we are, we cannot stay here.
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  It's a part of the role of the leaders to create a certain
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  discontent with where we are, part of the world leaders to
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  cast a vision for where we can go and where, why we should go
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  there, and then to show the path for how we get from here to
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  there. And every step of that process
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  that I described are are, you know, accurately articulating
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  what's going on in the present, in the current moment, receiving
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  the vision and, and articulating why that's compelling.
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  And then the process of actually going from here to there takes
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  courage because it's painful, it's convoluted.
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  There's going to be all sorts of stumbling blocks along the way.
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  And and so a leader absolutely has to be courageous in the
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  midst of that. I'll be curious to hear which of
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  the spirit filled leaders most strikes you most inspires you.
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  In what? In what way?
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  In in you mean like in the lives of the Saints or just in
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  general? I was thinking either
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  specifically people you've interviewed on your podcast or
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  people that you you'd like to interview, who, who do you think
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  has has like the most magnanimous vision?
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  Who, who do you think is someone that like you, you really look
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  up to, you want to imitate? Yeah, it's a great question.
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  I haven't interviewed him for the podcast, but I know him well
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  and I've been observing him for a long time.
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  His father, Dave Pavanca, was the president of Franciscan
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  University in Steubenville, OH. I think he embodies a healthy
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  percentage of everything that I'm describing.
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  I mean, here's a guy who's just radically himself.
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  He's totally kind of aware of how the Lord has made him and
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  the gifts that he has. He's a very much aware of some
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  of his weaknesses. And so he's been able to
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  compliment those weaknesses and fill those and overcome those
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  weaknesses through putting people around him who have those
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  strengths where he is weak. He's casting a compelling vision
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  for the university and he's been courageously going about seeing
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  that vision actualized. And, and he's just, again, he's
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  just very much a kind of himself in the midst of it.
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  He's not trying to play a, a role.
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  He's not trying to be like the university president.
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  He's, you know, he's relaxed, he's with the students, he's on
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  social media and he's he's and he's filled with the spirit.
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  And so when I think about kind of men and women who are
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  actively walking in their gifting and and seeing a
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  tangible impact from that faithfulness, Father Dave would
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  definitely come to mind. I just had him on this show last
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  week, in fact. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  He was gracious enough to accept that.
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  Yeah. One thing that struck me about
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  him was, yeah, how normal he is. And at the same time, he does
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  strike me as being an effective executive, to use the term from
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  Peter Drucker, that he knows how to how to use his time for
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  highest impact and how to use his team so that he can have the
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  highest impact. Definitely no, he's, he's a high
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  capacity, high output guy in a very normal and very relatable
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  and engaging package. You know, he's very disarming in
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  this habit and you know everything about him.
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  He could talk about Notre Dame football and then at the same
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  time he's raising millions of dollars to transform university
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  and help these students grow academically and in their
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  relationship with the Lord. So it's he's an impressive guy.
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  Any other leaders that you met or you hoped to meet that really
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  stand out to you? Oh man, there's a ton.
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  I, I tend to be a bit of a like curator of leadership qualities.
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  So and I, I taking the same approach to my speaking where I
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  just, I tend to watch how people operate and go, Oh, I really
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  like that piece. Or I really think that's
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  something that I could grow in. So for instance, like Curtis
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  Martin, the the founder and, and president of focus, the
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  fellowship of Catholic University students.
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  I like talk about a guy with a huge vision.
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  I mean, just like this guy is it lives in and it's such a
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  beautiful way like the bigness of what God can do.
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  He's got a huge God right or another one is Father Matthias
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  the day on the the Co founder and president of or the chairman
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  of the of encounter ministries. Here's a guy who just either
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  parish priest here at Saint Pat's down the street in
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  Brighton, totally in love with the Lord, totally transformed by
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  the power of the Holy Spirit who just believes in this core that
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  the Holy Spirit is going to confirm God's word when it goes
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  out and encounter the particular way helps remind the Church of
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  the signs and wonders and the kind of the majesty of God and
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  and finally the diocese. It's like yeah, we're we're
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  going for the world. You know we're not we're not
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  playing it safe or a woman. I got the interview one time who
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  I just was so in kind of incredibly captivated by her
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  courage was a woman named Helen Alvare, who's been at the
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  forefront of religious liberty and defending life and just in
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  all these incredible circles at some of the highest levels of
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  government, been able to remain very faithful to the Lord and
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  very true to herself, but unequivocally willing to share
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  the truth. And then I I think some of the
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  best friend for the leaders are the ones I could say all these
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  names and you'd have no idea who they are because they're just
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  going about their life. They're leading their family
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  well, they're leading their communities.
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  Well, they're leading they're, they're, they're great workers
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  or their employers or whatever their job is, is, is part of who
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  they are. Think about a buddy just down
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  the street from us. His name is James Cresta, who's
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  a, he's a lawyer. He and his wife have, I think 8
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  or 9 kids at this point. And like, he's not necessarily
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  like famous in the Catholic world.
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  But I tell you what, his impact on the local church here in Ann
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  Arbor, MI is profound. He's serving on boards, he's
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  leading worship at our parish masses.
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  He's raising his kids to know the Lord.
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  He's donating to different things.
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  I mean, he's absolutely building the Kingdom and his his circle
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  of influence. And to me, that's every bit as
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  important as some of the names that I could say that would be
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  more obvious or known to the listeners.
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  Well, the fact that you find inspiration in these magnanimous
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  leaders tells me that you're probably a magnanimous leader
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  yourself, or at least you're striving to be so.
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  I want to hear. I want to hear.
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  Pete, What? What is your vision, man?
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  I love the way you said it. He has, he has a really big God.
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  He has big God. So what?
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  What is your vision, Pete? Well, I think I think to answer
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  that my parents always used to talk about like a mature man has
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  four legs of a stool that the Lord has an opinion about.
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  And if any one of them, if one is out of balance, the stool can
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  still kind of still speak exist, but is a little wobbly if but if
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  2 are out of balance or gone, you're falling over.
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  And so, and that was like personal health, relational
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  health with the people closest to you, relationship with God
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  and then contribution to the world.
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  And so I, I tend to think of it as like, Lord, what is your
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  vision for me and my family and, and workplace and try to try to
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  wrap my hands around arms around all of it, but also be it's like
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  one of those classic Catholic both hands.
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  It's like both very specific to individual aspects of like
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  what's my vision for my personal health right now?
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  It's like play pickleball and do kettlebell workouts, right?
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  And, and lose a few pounds. Like that's, that's the vision
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  for like just my personal health, but that's in context to
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  a bigger vision that I feel like the Lord is calling our family
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  to be radically missionary. Radically missionary in where
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  he's planted the Sierra Ann Arbor.
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  Then also radically missionary in the fact that he's opening
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  doors for me to, to go preach and teach and minister all of
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  the world. You know, whether it's Brazil or
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  Australia or Spain or Canada and the different places that he's
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  been sending me. So to boil it all down though,
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  what has been the driving understanding of my life since I
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  was about 8 years old was it was very simple.
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  It was God is real and he loves me and I, I want to stand up for
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  him and make him known. That became that kind of core
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  element of like, what's the vision of my life is?
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  Like I know that Jesus is real and I'm in the relationship with
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  him. I have faith that everything he
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  has revealed about himself is true.
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  I love him and I want to follow him and I really want other
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  people to know him. I mean, even when I was trying
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  to figure out what to kind of do professionally with my life, the
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  thing that just kept rattling around in my brain is I just
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  want people to meet Jesus. I want people to meet him in the
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  power of the Holy Spirit. And so my like, the biggest
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  possible vision, like most magnanimous vision I can come up
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  with is I just want the whole world to know Jesus.
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  And or maybe a better way to put it is I want the whole world to
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  be to hear the gospel preached with faith such that they are
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  given a chance to respond in faith.
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  Because I can't, I know I can't control whether or not somebody
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  says yes to the Lord, but I can't control as to whether or
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  not I participate in the Lord's plan for everybody to have the
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  opportunity to respond to him. You know, the Scripture tells
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  God desires that all would be saved and come to the knowledge
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  of the truth. And how could people be saved
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  unless they hear? And how can people hear unless
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  those are sent to preach? And so in many ways, like I
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  spend most of my time or good percentage of my time trying to
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  figure out how do we help people hear the gospel and how do we
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  help them hear it preached in such a way that it leads to a
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  decision point for them. What did you come up with?
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  Well, I think we're doing a lot of different things.
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  I think there's some of it is the people right under our nose.
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  Like I'm preparing right now for our boys camp, which is just a
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  week long boys camp. Yeah.
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  You know, how do we help the whole world hear the gospel?
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  Sometimes it starts with the smallest circle of people that
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  you can influence who are going to influence their small circle
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  or going to influence their small circle.
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  So I got 175 seventh, 8th and 9th grade boys about to spend a
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  week with me and my 75 staff. And the whole focus of the week
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  is to help them meet Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit,
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  learn what it means to be a Christian leader and to have a
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  great time. Those are three goals Boys Camp
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  and we've been doing it for since 1980 and that we're going
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  to keep doing it. And so that's like, that's a
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  very tangible expression of, OK, I want to, I want the world to
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  meet Jesus. But I know if I can help these
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  boys meet Jesus, they're going to become future fathers who are
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  going to have children who they can help meet the Lord.
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  They're going to become future priests who are going to lead
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  congregations. And I know that not just in like
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  the hypothetical, I hope I've I've seen it.
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  I've been, I've been, I've been the camp director since 2010,
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  but I've been coming out to camp since 2002.
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  I was a 7th grader in 2002 and I've been every year since.
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  And so I've, I can just see the, the ripple effect of the grace
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  of like when these boys meet the Lord, it does start to transform
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  the world. So it's, it's, that's an
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  example. And then, you know, but in a
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  week, I'm going to be flying to Spain to spend a weekend with
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  about 50 young men in Barcelona to do a retreat weekend with
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  them. How does that help meet the
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  world? Well, that's a whole nother
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  circle of influence, a whole nother circle of a concentric
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  circle of impact. I hope that's the Holy Spirit
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  can utilize to to help people step into the Kingdom.
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  So I heard about you, Chief, through John Bishop, who, who
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  does the Forge resources, really good stuff.
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  I guess you're involved in the leadership there.
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  He spoke really highly of you. What, what, what are some of
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  your leadership skills or strategies?
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  How do you how do you help organizations run better and be
• 15:13
  more effective? Me personally.
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  Yeah. Well, I, I tend to, it's funny,
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  I don't know if anyone's ever really asked me quite directly.
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  It makes me a little uncomfortable to be like, well,
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  what this is what I'm good at. But as I think about it, I think
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  the impact I've had on organizations that I've either
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  served on boards for or been in leadership of is ideas come very
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  easily to me. They're not always good ideas,
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  but I'm always kind of searching for, you know, the God ideas in
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  the midst of all the good ideas. So it's, it's not hard for me to
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  spend a, a relatively short amount of time with something
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  and immediately come up with different ways to help it grow.
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  I think the Lord has given me a gift to, to help win people to
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  things. So I, if you've ever taken like
• 15:58
  the Clifton strengths finders assessment, my number one is
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  woo. So I I love helping people get
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  excited about something. And what I've seen over and over
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  again a lot, often what I bring to an organization is an
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  enthusiasm for whatever the idea is.
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  I'm not the one who's probably going to execute on the idea.
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  I'm certainly not the one who's tenacious enough to kind of see
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  it through, but to get people moving.
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  So, for instance, like John had had his first forged Forge
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  conference close to 1000 men in Des Moines and he asked me to be
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  the MC, which was perfect because what's the role of the
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  MC is to get everybody excited to get everyone comfortable to
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  win everybody to what the day is going to be about to kind of
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  draw threads throughout the day of oh, here's what God is doing.
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  Here's what you're hearing in the talk, culminating with that
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  kind of let's go rallying, Let's let's go conquer the world type
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  of thing. And so that's that was the role
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  I played and I loved doing it. And from all accounts it was it
• 16:55
  was an effective contribution to the day.
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  And then the other thing, I think, at least in the various
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  Catholic or Christian realms that I've been in, as I, I
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  really try to listen to the Lord and sounds so obvious, like of
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  course, every board listens to the Lord, but I really do like
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  believe he's going to speak to us.
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  We, we call it, it's a core value of ours that we call it
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  expectant listening. We don't just kind of like, hey,
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  lip service to listening to God. We really expect him to
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  communicate to us. And we expect that when he does,
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  we'll be able to recognize it as such because he gives us the
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  power to. And then we expect we'll be able
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  to have the courage to act on it because why communicate it to us
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  if he's not going to expect us to do something about it?
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  So I think a lot of times I've been in environments where all
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  sorts of things are flying around and all different ideas
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  and strategies. And sometimes my role has often
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  been like, OK, let's pause for a second.
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  And just like, what does Jesus want us to do here?
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  Like have we actually asked the Lord what his his opinion is?
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  So yeah, those are some things that come to mind is.
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  There anything else you want to share with our audience?
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  Oh, I mean, there's so many things I'd love to share with
• 18:03
  the audience. That's the core.
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  It's, it's just continue to repent and believe in the
• 18:07
  gospel. We were just in staff meeting
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  today talking about Chapter 2 and Peter's speech in Acts
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  chapter 2 is it's the rallying cry of the church.
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  It's the first Pope standing with the other apostles
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  proclaiming what this is all about.
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  What does it culminate with? This is let the whole House of
• 18:24
  his room know assuredly, but the whole listeners of this podcast
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  know assuredly that God has made him both the Lord and Christ,
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  this Jesus whom he crucified. I mean, the core message is
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  Jesus Christ is the Lord, He's the King, he's the all powerful
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  one. And as Christ, he's the
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  anointed, he's the Savior, he's the Messiah, He's the only one
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  the way to the Father. And the response to that reality
• 18:43
  has to be repentance. The response, the only right and
• 18:47
  true response to who the fullness of who Jesus is, is out
• 18:50
  of both love and kind of fear of God, we bend our knees, proclaim
• 18:54
  who he is, and say, please forgive us so that his life
• 18:58
  could come into us. And so whether we've heard this
• 19:00
  before 1000 times or this is the first time hearing it, it's
• 19:02
  always every day as Catholics, this opportunity to reaffirm,
• 19:06
  Lord, I believe, help my unbelief, Lord, forgive me for I
• 19:10
  don't know what I'm doing. And Lord, fill me with your
• 19:12
  spirit so that I might deal out, go out and be your witness to
• 19:15
  the world. Well, I wish more Catholics can
• 19:17
  speak with your conviction. I I think we need more converts
• 19:20
  from Protestantism. Because they're not.
• 19:23
  I don't, Yeah. I didn't even convert.
• 19:24
  I was born and raised Catholic. Can you believe that I'm a, I'm
• 19:27
  a, I'm a cradle Catholic. Wow.
• 19:28
  I would never. I would never have guessed that,
• 19:30
  man. I don't know.
• 19:32
  I don't know where you got that fire.
• 19:34
  I do. It's from the community I was
• 19:36
  raised in. We are a bunch of the bunch of
• 19:40
  people, the adults my parents surrounded themselves with, with
• 19:43
  men and women who love Jesus. We're filled with power of the
• 19:45
  Holy Spirit and we're just radically Catholic in the midst
• 19:49
  of all that. Because everything I'm saying,
• 19:50
  this is, this is the heart of the Catholic Church.
• 19:52
  This is the heart of the Catholic message.
• 19:54
  This is this is what Scripture reveals to us and what the
• 19:56
  Magisterium has consistently taught.
• 19:58
  This is what we see in the last of the Saints.
• 20:00
  And so, yeah, no, I, I always appreciate a good like
• 20:03
  evangelical brother and sister coming in with some passion and
• 20:05
  view and all that. But it's like, that's great.
• 20:07
  But that's, that's our heritage too.
• 20:09
  That's that's our DNA just as much as it is theirs.
• 20:12
  Well, thanks for the preaching, man.
• 20:13
  Keep it up. Yeah, Yeah.
• 20:14
  I will, thanks. Thanks for listening.
• 20:17
  Please like, subscribe and share with your friends.
• 20:19
  See you next time.