Latest / Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast / PART 1: Becoming Whole: Leaving Toxic Love & Finding Yourself with Sharon Gladney

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PART 1: Becoming Whole: Leaving Toxic Love & Finding Yourself with Sharon Gladney · Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast

0:16
This episode contains discussion of emotional and psychological
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abuse, as well as reference to sexual acts which may be
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triggering or difficult for listeners.
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The content shared reflects the lived experiences of our guest
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and is intended for educational and awareness purposes only.
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Listener discretion is advised. If you are currently
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experiencing abuse or need support, please reach out to a
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trusted professional therapist, counselor, or call the National
0:46
The Myth Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for confidential
0:53
assistance. Good morning and welcome to
0:58
Surprise and Fly with Doctor Jane Nicole, where we are rising
1:02
up late and thriving apartments. Today is a very exclusive
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episode. We're going to be hearing about
1:12
the experiences of my wonderful guest here with Sharon Gladden.
1:18
She is a trauma informed care practitioner and abuse recovery
1:22
coach with 18 years of experience and behavioral mental
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health field. She has held positions as a
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clinical director and mental health clinical monitor.
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She is also a certified risky Master and Spiritual Life SOAP.
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Sharon Gladney obtained a master's in education with a
1:42
specialization in Human Services from the University of Wisconsin
1:46
Platteville and a bachelor's degree in psychology from the
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University of Wisconsin Park side.
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Also my own model. Outside of work, she enjoyed
1:58
spending time with her four amazing children, reading and
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took in Let's give she want a warm welcome.
2:05
Thank you so much here. I'm so happy to be here, so
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excited. Yes, indeed.
2:13
Well, Sharon, I really want to thank you for having the courage
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to speak out about the story. And then I'm also honored that
2:21
you filled the space to share here with me today on Ryzen 5
2:26
with Doctor J Nicole. So we'll just get right into it
2:31
in this episode, I'm going to be putting down with Sharon.
2:36
He's a speaker, a survivor and a folder woman.
2:40
He's walking boldly in her feelings.
2:42
After 18 years and a psychological repeated
2:46
relationship, Sharon found the couch face herself.
2:51
And he build a guy through the impunity, purpose, and personal
2:56
truth. Through this candid, very
2:59
authentic and vulnerable conversation, Sharon is going to
3:03
share what it means to do self, to heal the parts that date long
3:09
and redefine love, not just with a partner, but with God, with
3:15
motherhood, and with self. This episode is for anyone who
3:19
is ending on the edge of change, who's scared to jump or maybe
3:24
even desperate to be free. So, Sharon, thank you in advance
3:28
for doing the hard work. It it has been hard work, but it
3:34
is well worth it. Absolutely.
3:37
Absolutely. So Sharon, let's just jump right
3:40
in. What were some of the signs that
3:43
maybe you overlooked early on that later revealed themselves
3:47
to actually be emotional or psychological abuse?
3:52
Oh well, the signs were very clear.
3:56
You know, I'm looking back and the, the signs that I saw in the
4:00
beginning ended up being the same reason of ending, you know,
4:06
18 years later. What I, what I ended up having
4:09
to leave for is, is what I saw from the very beginning.
4:11
So sometimes in relationship wills will, you know, to see
4:16
things trickling down over years.
4:19
Our first year ended up being a very traumatic or shock
4:24
situation for me. So right after our first year, I
4:29
ended up finding out that he was addicted to our operating in
4:33
like chat lines and so. Now some people might not know
4:37
what chat lines are what year we talking here.
4:40
Sharon I didn't when I I was what, I got married at 20.
4:45
So that was after the first year, you know, 2122.
4:50
And so I ended up getting a call from a company where he like
4:55
owed money for the chat lines and I'm like, what's that?
4:59
So I ended up finding out that and he ended up confessing.
5:03
So she and I, that was the commercials that used to come on
5:05
back in the day before we had AOL Messenger.
5:12
I'm gonna go first. I didn't pay any attention to
5:16
that world or anything like that.
5:18
So it was mind blowing to me of like actually chatting with
5:22
people and then like meeting up with them and having sex like
5:27
that blew my mind. I didn't really know anything
5:30
about that. And so he ended up confessing,
5:34
you know, that within our first year he had had sex with at
5:37
least 10 women from chat lines. OK.
5:41
And so that was. A shocker that year, or in
5:47
totality. Within the IT goes a lot
5:50
further. That's just within the first
5:52
year. I was, you know, we go through
5:56
the I'm done, you know, how could you?
5:58
What is this all this kind of stuff?
6:00
And at the time I listened to, you know, and this is no down or
6:06
negative to anyone that feels a certain way of saying, you know,
6:12
God going to change him, God going to going to fix it.
6:17
He's going to be a strong man of God.
6:20
I don't want to veer anyone from that, but that was a huge
6:23
influence for me at that time from older women.
6:29
So you want to hear that, you know, God's going to come do a
6:33
great work and all of this stuff.
6:36
And I remember I went through a phase where I was like, man, I
6:40
wish I didn't listen to those women.
6:43
Yeah, yeah. And they were likely giving you
6:47
advice that they had been given. Yeah, yeah.
6:52
And so it's, it started from the the sexual and and it really it
6:56
continues for 18 years in different ways.
7:00
But yeah, it wasn't like, you know, 15 years in and it's like,
7:05
Oh my God, they had an affair. And this is a huge part of my
7:09
story is we're going to get to it.
7:12
But self betrayal? Yeah.
7:15
Because I saw I got a huge sign within the first year.
7:21
OK, so the chat line that was more glaring, what were maybe
7:26
some of the subtle or or just not even necessarily subtle, but
7:30
like other behaviors, speech, mindset, any of those things
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that like, you know. Well, something I picked up on a
7:42
lot, you know, when we get we would get into argument, you
7:45
know, or disagreement. I'm just here for the kids
7:48
anyway. OK.
7:51
And then would apologize later. I'm so sorry.
7:53
I didn't mean to say that. But it will continue to come up
7:57
in different arguments where some people may, you know, a
8:00
person can be telling their truth when they're upset.
8:02
But it's like, well, I don't, I don't want to lose you.
8:04
So, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that.
8:08
This is before it gets really deep where it got pretty
8:13
extreme, but just different comments will come up.
8:16
You know, I was typically one. I love to cook, clean.
8:19
I'm a woman that I keep a a really nice house and I do all
8:23
those things that he's to say. You know, plenty of women do
8:25
that. Plenty of women do that.
8:28
Oh. And what Happizing and
8:30
diminishing? Oh yeah, plenty of women do what
8:33
you do. Things like that would be said
8:36
quite a bit. OK, so that's subtle in the way
8:40
and I think how it sneaks by because it's not like a dagger,
8:46
it's just like a little sinking of the sandhoping.
8:50
Oh, it became a dagger. All right.
8:53
When you let the little things go.
8:55
And also it wears down your protective layer.
9:02
Yeah, it let it's. I'm sorry.
9:04
Go ahead, Hon. I also say, yeah, when you when
9:06
you skim past those things that seem little, you can get a lot
9:11
bigger. So pretty much this went on in
9:17
many different ways for years. I reconciled after that.
9:21
The children came had a kiddo every three years.
9:27
Sharon, let's, let's, let's, let's start at the beginning of
9:29
the love story, right? Because there was love, right?
9:33
To to get down the path or some type of connection.
9:37
So walk, walk us back to how it started.
9:41
High school. OK.
9:44
Junior year, I remember. Y'all so English plan?
9:48
Sharon and I actually grew up in the same hometown.
9:51
Or it's a city, not the town. We grew up in the same city.
9:54
We went to the same high school. I don't think I met you until
9:58
high school, and then we overlap as well in undergrad at
10:03
University of Napa Parkside. So I remember, I remember y'all,
10:06
y'all so cute. Yeah, yeah.
10:11
And, and I stopped for a minute, a minute when you said there had
10:14
to be love. Yeah.
10:15
Somewhere we'll get to that process of what I learned in
10:19
therapy, where I had to face like, what really is love?
10:24
Because we'll call something love because of a feeling that
10:28
we have, but then we have to talk about what love is.
10:31
The. Experience so I would say we
10:33
connected in high school and had this connection as friends.
10:39
So it's kind of like I ended up and it wasn't something I
10:44
wanted. And you know, in the beginning
10:45
it's like, oh, this is my homeboy, you know, type of
10:48
thing. And it grew from there.
10:53
And so there was this connection of friendship, but I did not
10:59
know the inner struggles that he had, just like he wouldn't know
11:03
the inner struggles that I have. And I would say that's one of
11:07
the things where I'm not a big supporter, not necessarily
11:10
against it or judging anybody else to, but not a huge
11:13
supporter of getting married at 20 and our first from high
11:17
school. Because you really don't know
11:20
all the different parts of you yet going into adulthood and
11:25
then different situations. Developing.
11:28
No, no. So then there was no way for me
11:31
to know some of these inner struggles because he probably
11:34
didn't even know those inner struggles.
11:40
You know what I'm saying? For me.
11:43
So yeah, it, it started with friendship in high school.
11:46
And then it's like, you know, I went to Columbia College in
11:49
Chicago fresh from high school. So I moved downtown Chicago and
11:54
he came when he was 19 and asked to marry me.
11:59
And I'm like, you know, like any other young girl.
12:03
It's like, Oh my God, I'm like so excited.
12:06
And I remember a moment of something.
12:08
This has always stood out to me. I was in Columbia College and I
12:12
was in the elevator and I was telling my a friend of mine
12:15
that, you know, I was now engaged.
12:17
And I was talking about, you know, I'm going to, I've been
12:20
going back and forth about going to school for psychology.
12:23
I'm going to go back home so I can get married and this, this
12:26
and that. And I switched my whole
12:28
trajectory because I was going to Columbia College for
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broadcast journalism. And I've completely switched
12:39
something, a direction that I was going in.
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I made a decision and I remember a woman, she stepped off that
12:48
elevator and she held the door and she said you better focus on
12:53
you and if it's meant to be, that person will be there.
12:59
But you do not up and change your life for a man.
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And then she walked away. I have never forgotten.
13:07
I just got chills. And when I hear that when people
13:11
tell stories, my brain creates a picture like a movie.
13:14
So I just need this dramatic Paul.
13:17
And you're just like, and you just look like this.
13:20
You look like a Hallmark movie, like the best thing that has
13:23
ever happened to you and excited about because you know that's
13:27
what it was about being chosen. Yeah.
13:30
Boxes checked, I've arrived and this lady said no, that's not
13:37
it. That's not the priority.
13:40
And I've never forgot that moment.
13:42
And it still gives me chills because I know that was
13:45
significant. Yeah.
13:46
It was like just it wasn't. It was just like a warning that
13:53
felt deep. You ever got like somebody say
13:55
something, but it hits you, hits your spirit a little different,
13:59
Sharon. Listen, God be communicating
14:03
with us all the time who uses people all the time.
14:06
He will use the very person that might be hurting us to get us a
14:11
message and we have the restricted to like that pause.
14:14
You had that pause 20 so your department wasn't high.
14:22
Yeah, that's key. Yeah, that's key right there.
14:26
But even though it's like it wasn't high, you use the perfect
14:30
word. It was this pause like a zip
14:32
time stopped like Sharon, listen, listen right now.
14:37
And if I didn't so. Why would you give it up if the
14:42
goal at that point is to get the ring, get married, get to have
14:48
kids? Like there's this fantasy that
14:51
people create that you do these things and now you have the
14:54
perfect life. Yeah, because I looked at it
14:56
before as a fantasy, but now I know better.
14:59
It's programming. So, Oh yes, ma'am, you speak in
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my language. So let me ask you this.
15:05
While you were at Columbia College on your track to
15:08
broadcast journalism, what was he doing?
15:11
Back home, just working, OK, I believe you just had a job at
15:16
the time and working and I was super focused, like I've always
15:21
been one to be like focused on education, focused on what my
15:25
goals were. That person changed over the
15:28
years. I, I, I went through season.
15:30
I lost a lot of that part of me. Of the piece.
15:33
And had to find it back. Along the way, Yeah, along the
15:36
way. So this is a little bit more
15:38
reclamation self. Yeah, and it's a journey.
15:45
It's a journey back. One thing I learned is the
15:47
longer you stay on the train, longer it takes to get back
15:51
home. It was a it was years of losing
15:56
myself and self betrayal. And then there was a deep moment
16:02
of having to get back, but get back with all the stuff that I
16:07
learned. Because those left are meant to
16:10
be left behind. Because if not, you get back on
16:11
the same train, just in a different destination.
16:14
OK, so you come back home then What happened?
16:24
Started having kiddos which I have 4:00 three boys and a girl
16:30
and like I I mentioned before started having them three years
16:32
apart but it was always some level of infidelity in between.
16:38
OK. So it's like, you know, you're
16:40
having a kid and you may have some happy moments, but even
16:45
when I say happy moments, I was never truly happy once
16:51
infidelity started. Eventually I will forgive and
16:54
smile and do all that, but not truly ever comfortable on the
16:58
inside. Once that trust is gone, you can
17:02
continue to fake it for your lifestyle that you want or image
17:07
or I got married, I'm staying married.
17:10
But day in and day out, you know, you're not sleeping
17:15
necessarily with peace. You're not really comfortable.
17:18
You know, you're not really stressed out.
17:20
You're not comfortable in life. You're just doing what you need
17:24
to do. So I did that for years.
17:28
For years. Yeah.
17:30
So, yeah, and so it was a lot of stuff.
17:34
And it wasn't just like, you know, some people can listen to,
17:38
you know, the first story I said of the, you know, the 10 women
17:41
having sex with 10 women in the first year.
17:43
And I'm pretty sure to be some people be like, that is enough
17:46
for me. I'm out of there.
17:49
It was more things that happened that were extreme.
17:52
OK. And so I dealt with with a lot I
17:56
dealt with, you know, being confronted by when women stating
18:03
that he's trying he's talking to them or.
18:06
So they've had say chat line to in person, these conversations
18:11
with a phone or were people pulling up on me?
18:15
Oh, I've never had somebody pull up on me.
18:17
OK, I want to make sure I understood what.
18:21
These I'll give it. I mean, I'll give an example
18:23
after I had my third and this goes this will go smooth good
18:28
into what I think should be talked about next is trying to
18:32
change things about yourself for your partner.
18:36
So that brings up, I went through a season and I know
18:40
there's plenty of people that have experienced this where I
18:44
knew that he was not going to be faithful.
18:48
OK. So a way to control it was to
18:51
offer threesomes. Oh, I can see how you're like,
18:57
well, he's going to do it anyway.
19:00
Have some control and knowing who it is, maybe even a sense of
19:05
safety because you know a lot of people doing stuff with that
19:09
stuff. I know that was really the most
19:12
eloquent way to say it, but like, there's a lot of things
19:17
that are out there, so being aware.
19:20
Yeah, it's a lot and and like I said, I I really can't say it
19:27
enough when it's not your truth, it is truly self betrayal.
19:34
Expand on that a little more. When you are going against the
19:39
voice within. OK.
19:42
That comes with a cost. Yeah.
19:46
It affects your mental health, your physical health, it a
19:52
changes your brain neurologically and you can think
19:58
you're doing something that's making my relationship and my.
20:05
That's like dying for something because slowly you're dying.
20:09
That's saying that this is more important than my life.
20:14
Yeah. That's out of balance there.
20:18
I was out of balance for years trying to make my relationship
20:25
work. It was always from beginning to
20:30
end. It was always about sex.
20:33
I remember one time this was, and actually I'm going to go
20:35
back to that story, but prior to that when we were into it about
20:39
some affair and I asked why did you even, you know, he's the one
20:42
that came to me in high school and he confessed it later.
20:46
He was like, because I wanted to have sex, I wanted to have sex
20:50
with you. And that makes sense.
20:51
For, like I said, 18 year old boy.
20:53
I want to have sex with you. But then I ended up liking.
20:56
Then I ended up loving you. Well, why did you get married?
20:58
What made you want to marry me? Well, because I come from a
21:04
Christian family and I wanted to be able to have sex with you
21:06
without them on me and without guilt.
21:11
That happens to a lot of people. They get into these very serious
21:14
situations because the adult pushing them to live in
21:22
alignment with what the book says, but then also the kids
21:26
because that's what y'all were still right.
21:29
Absolutely. The spiritual maturation, the
21:32
emotional maturation, it wasn't it.
21:35
Not at all. OK, so then it's, you know,
21:39
being young, getting together with somebody for sex, marrying
21:43
somebody for sex, then it's just nothing but issues with sex.
21:47
This is a it's the it's the foundation.
21:50
You said what? I said now I don't even remember
21:54
his name. I just remember his face when we
21:56
were like young and he wore glasses.
21:58
That's all I care. Like kind of I could kind of see
22:01
his face on my mind, but I didn't know anything about him
22:04
other than he was your boyfriend when we were in high school.
22:07
Like that's literally the only reason why he popped up on my
22:09
radar. But I don't know anything like
22:15
about him. So I'm saying that to preference
22:19
my next statement. But if all these things are
22:22
about sex, sex, sex and the length he's willing to go to or
22:27
through for sex, and my mind clinically they're telling me
22:32
he's had a sexual trauma in some sort of way or been exposed to
22:37
something, something's happened to him, so on and so on.
22:44
Yeah, I don't know specifically about any sexual trauma.
22:47
I just know that like most young boys, he went through a time of
22:51
being addicted to pornography. Well, there you go.
22:55
But with family or anything like that, I don't know.
22:58
That's enough of anything watching those images, it
23:02
changes how what what a kid may know is normal because nothing
23:07
about pornography necessarily depending on what do you watch
23:12
and right it's meant for like intimacy and nor can it capture
23:16
what it needs to create a connection like and and building
23:22
like a like true friendship and connection versus seeing women
23:26
and men as a means to it and just for pleasure transactional,
23:30
disposable. Absolutely.
23:34
It has a great effect. It can go for many, many years,
23:38
change how you view relationships.
23:40
Like don't even know how to properly treat someone because
23:45
of these visuals that you've had from a very young age.
23:49
So all of that could have definitely played a part.
23:54
But so like I said, it was just many situations.
23:58
There was a situation that came up of him being unfaithful with
24:04
me from someone back home and that person was married too.
24:10
And one of the things that came up with my therapist when I
24:16
shared with her these different because he wanted me to befriend
24:18
this person many years later. But I didn't know that they had
24:21
had an affair. But that's one thing that has
24:25
come up. So my my therapist used the word
24:27
sexual deviant. Yeah.
24:30
When they want you he is. Happened numerous times where he
24:34
wanted me to be around someone that he has slept with or is
24:39
dealing with without me knowing. That has shown up numerous times
24:43
and I never heard the word or thought sexual deviant that
24:47
there's something behind that. So that goes into what I was
24:51
originally saying. When it got into the whole
24:53
threesome thing, there was a woman that he wanted to have a
24:57
threesome with and me trying to please, I reached out to her.
25:03
I called her and she said just like, I don't think you know
25:09
everything or I'm surprised that you're calling me.
25:12
OK, Just like I just left from there not too long ago.
25:15
We are already having sex. Oh, OK.
25:19
But he could have chosen anyone but that.
25:22
That's that deviant I need, you know, some people will be like,
25:26
well, I cheated with this person, so stay far away from
25:29
them because I don't want you to find out.
25:30
He would want to put me right in the battlefield, right?
25:33
Right there in the center. He like.
25:37
This it? Yeah, it's happened numerous
25:39
times. That probably really gave him a
25:42
sense of power. Yeah, yeah, that's the way it
25:46
was expressed to me with sexual deviant.
25:48
We were at his cousin's wedding once.
25:50
And I'm just dancing and looking cute and having a good time.
25:53
And I just kept seeing him by this woman just constantly.
25:57
And I looked on his Facebook the next day and he was writing her,
26:01
you know, I really want to get to know you.
26:02
I'm very unhappy. And during that time, we were
26:04
doing OK, doing pretty good. And so I asked him about it.
26:08
And he was just like, so you shouldn't have went through my
26:11
phone. He was like, that's not my
26:13
problem. You found out because you looked
26:15
in my phone. And so I reached out to her and
26:19
she ended up telling me. She said, you know, we talked
26:22
that whole time and she was like, I'm going to be honest
26:26
with you. I watched you that.
26:27
Night. She said I watched you that
26:30
night and that changed me. And she said I want to apologize
26:36
for connecting with him over that weekend.
26:40
She said, But there's one thing I want to say if you decide to
26:44
stay, she said be very careful because your man has no
26:48
functions. It's always sat with me.
26:54
She's saying it was a pause, it was a pause.
27:00
It was a pause in like as if God said pause.
27:05
This woman that she's apologizing to you because she's
27:09
letting you know this is what I was up to.
27:13
But whatever was said or whatever happened that weekend
27:18
when I wasn't around, she said you have a man with no
27:21
conscience and you should be very careful.
27:24
And as life went on, I have never forgotten that moment
27:29
because it got way worse. Yeah, Sharon, I'm like, that man
27:34
was beyond bold for multiple reasons.
27:38
How far into the relationship are y'all at this point?
27:42
We did four, it was 8 at that point.
27:45
Didn't have my second one yet so this was early on.
27:50
Probably 6-6 or seven, maybe 6. Years, OK.
27:55
Possibly. Around that OK and I girl you
27:59
call that early. I my, my whole relationship with
28:02
their whole fatality was like 6 1/2 years and it felt like that.
28:06
But when you put that in the context of 18 yes.
28:12
So by this point, though, Sharon with you accepting him when you
28:17
found out about the love the the what is the the chat line look
28:21
ups and that there were ten with a how this personality is
28:29
shaping of this person based on the behaviors.
28:32
The patterns of behaviors is what I'll what I'll say.
28:35
This is the person who's like, well, she accepted me through
28:39
that and then do this, do that. Like it's almost like it kept
28:46
feeding it and it you being so willing to fix the hold on,
28:54
right, Because marriage can become an idol to a lot of us
28:57
and it does to a lot of people. And you had the coveted thing.
29:01
Why would you give it up and go back to these racing streets?
29:05
Who's out there, right? Sometimes is where people think,
29:09
well, we got these and I imagine depending on who you talk to, if
29:13
you talk to anyone at all, people were walking you into the
29:18
marriage and turning you to stay in the marriage in spite of what
29:21
you knew, right? But it seems that he was only
29:26
going to keep escalating each time.
29:30
And for him to be that bold and do this in your face at a
29:34
wedding that's next low. Oh that's not young lady.
29:41
Glad God changed her and she had that.
29:46
I'm glad. I'm glad as well.
29:48
Yeah. Because she didn't have to
29:49
confess that and say, you know, this isn't the first married man
29:52
I've messed around with or. Taught.
29:54
Fool and just observing you, I just don't want to do that.
30:01
What did she say, what she saw when she was observing to me?
30:05
She just said you were just such a beautiful woman and it just
30:09
didn't make sense to me why he was hooking up with me.
30:12
I just didn't get it. It just didn't make sense.
30:18
Yeah. And so all of this.
30:20
So before I continue, because you're like, that sounds like a
30:23
lot, you'll understand why I got to the point of I finally filed
30:27
for divorce. But through this process, it
30:30
wasn't just people encouraging. There's family and people,
30:34
they're just like, is something wrong with you?
30:38
OK, what? What?
30:40
You know, there is not everybody encouraging to stay, OK.
30:44
You know, my mom was, she passed away in 2017.
30:50
But prior to that, she watched me go through all of these ups
30:55
and downs. Siblings watch this and they're
30:58
all like, do you need help leaving?
31:02
Like, what is what's the problem?
31:04
Yeah, You know, it's something psychologically wrong because
31:08
this ain't that serious. You know, you do have people in
31:11
your circle like that. That's over it.
31:14
They don't care about after you're hurt.
31:17
Yeah, after you're hurt so many times.
31:18
They're just like, is there something else going on?
31:21
So I had that support also, but and it was actually my mom that
31:27
I remember her stating it to me years.
31:30
It was actually the situation where I'd reached out to the
31:34
woman regarding the threesome and she said, you know, this is
31:38
been dealing with him. After I reconciled, after that
31:43
situation, that's when my mom was like, are you OK?
31:50
Like, psychologically? Yeah.
31:52
Like she asked me seriously, what?
31:56
What's the limit? When is there a limit?
31:59
Yeah, yeah, Ma. And she told me no woman is
32:07
ready to go until she's ready to go.
32:09
That's. True.
32:13
He said there's nothing else for me to say because when you've
32:15
had enough, that'll be when you have had enough.
32:17
Yep. And no one can define that.
32:21
And Sharon, what was your father's interpretation of all
32:25
of this or his response to it? Well, he passed in 2020, but
32:29
growing up he was not in my life much.
32:34
I saw him every couple years but he was very abusive.
32:37
So I'm from Mississippi, even though a lot of people can't
32:41
tell that. I used to have that country
32:44
accent when I was little, but it went away over the years.
32:49
Too, Actually, yeah. Yeah, So that Mississippi girl,
32:52
she's still in here, though. But that's why I was from my dad
32:56
was a pastor, and I didn't find out.
32:59
There's few memories that I have in Mississippi.
33:01
I left there when I was 9, I think a lot blocked out.
33:04
But he was very physically abusive to family and sexually
33:08
abusive to older siblings. And my mom left before that.
33:14
It hit me. So I didn't grow up with any,
33:18
you know, any of that, that type of abuse.
33:21
I can remember seeing some of the physical, but I never
33:25
experienced, thankfully. I think I've dealt with trauma.
33:30
Yeah. But I am my heart.
33:31
I'm very grateful that my mom got us out that situation.
33:35
I didn't grow up with any type of sexual abuse or anything like
33:38
that. My heart goes out to people that
33:41
have because that's some heavy healing right there.
33:45
Absolutely. And so even when growing up in
33:48
that environment of abuse, it contributes to the blueprint.
33:52
It normalized something early. I don't know what the abuse
33:56
looks like. You know, whether it was like
34:00
verbal, what you were hearing, what you were seeing in the
34:02
interactions, all of these things.
34:05
We don't recognize it. It's part of it.
34:08
Yes, we we had to dig deep in trauma therapy.
34:13
Yep. We'll get to that.
34:15
But I did, you know, almost two years of trauma therapy.
34:18
Yeah, when I finally filed for divorce.
34:21
But yes, going into my childhood, specifically the day
34:25
that my mom left, my dad and I didn't know what all was going
34:28
on, but it was like chaos in the house.
34:30
It was chaotic because everybody's packing, leaving
34:34
real quick, you know, while he's at work.
34:36
And I knew we were running away from something and how
34:39
significant that day was for me because I'm little.
34:43
And I'm just watching everybody running, running around, you
34:47
know, in a panic. And I remember getting in the
34:49
car, nobody's explaining anything, anything to me because
34:53
I'm little. They just like, come on, you
34:54
know, come on. And I remember sitting in the
34:59
back seat, and I had this doll. It was a really big doll.
35:03
And her name was Annette. And she had on a blue and white
35:07
dress. And I left Annette and I
35:10
remember sitting there and looking out the back window like
35:13
this and I knew better than to ask my mom to go back and get
35:17
that doll. And that's I have remembered
35:19
that for a year. Yeah.
35:23
But in therapy, we had to really dissect that, what that chaotic
35:29
moment did to me and how it shows up in my life, how
35:38
everything has to have a place for me.
35:41
Everything cannot it, you know, it's showing up in my life and
35:45
how I operate. And if I'm not balanced, you
35:50
will know it. If my space appears to be
35:52
chaotic, that on the inside I'm chaotic.
35:55
Yeah, that's a common marker that I can tell when some of my
35:59
clients are having a hard time. It shows up in their space and
36:02
some of them, they recognize it on their own.
36:04
They're like my space is a mess because I'm a mess.
36:07
That is a very true statement. That is a very true statement.
36:11
And when you get clear, your space can be clear.
36:14
Then you just feeling good. It's energetically,
36:18
energetically it affects you. It affects your space.
36:20
So, but definitely childhood, childhood became a big part of
36:26
it. But I did not, you know, see my
36:28
dad a lot throughout my years growing up.
36:31
I have had to look and see like, how is that affecting me?
36:34
Yeah, I always kind of would just be like, no big deal.
36:38
I kind of felt like, you know, I grew up in a very loving
36:41
household, single mom, but my my mom was amazing.
36:45
I would choose her over and over and over.
36:48
I grew up with a very kind, loving, soft spoken mother, very
36:53
feminine, very. So I've picked up a lot of her
36:56
characteristics. And so one of the things you
36:59
said, what one of the things that stood out to me was as I
37:04
got older, would I have taken a lot of the things that I did had
37:09
I had some experience of healthy masculine energy if that
37:15
father's face. Was.
37:17
An example had been there in a healthy manner, how different
37:24
would that change because I think that's necessary.
37:27
Absolutely. I think it's very important.
37:29
And so I grew up being like just a very soft, very feminine.
37:35
That was my answer, being not just a good person, but feeling
37:37
like you always have to be nice, even if it hurts you.
37:41
That self sacrificial type of thing that it's the blueprint
37:45
for self betrayal. Nice over everything.
37:49
Yep, Yep. Yeah, that has changed.
37:54
So I think we were a story within the story within the
37:58
story, right within the. Story.
38:00
So we're going to see players, yeah.
38:02
Yeah. And so basically because they
38:06
have been, there were so many moments of infidelity, I would
38:12
not be able to hit on it. So I'm just going to get to what
38:15
really made things change in my life.
38:19
So was the infidelities, but it was constant arguing regarding
38:24
flirting. We didn't have the same values.
38:27
So he was always like flirting is healthy for relationships.
38:34
You need because I while I was married, I didn't have male
38:36
friends. I didn't really talk.
38:39
Was that something that was talked about or was that
38:42
something that he like nipped in the bud immediately or was it
38:46
just your values? That's like, no, that's not OK.
38:51
We just didn't agree and he did what he wanted.
38:53
He told me that's not my problem, that you are
38:57
uncomfortable. Like, I have female friends.
39:00
If I have, you know, I can talk to a woman about sex and not
39:03
have sex with her. And there's nothing wrong with
39:05
that. And I feel like I will always
39:08
just be like stuck, like I felt like I was in a movie.
39:11
But also, what would you say? And then also, Aaron, we got
39:16
many layers of your programming here that lend itself to this
39:21
where even though the people who knew you most and or best are
39:26
like, well, what's the problem? They're not even connecting the
39:29
dots from the imprints of the one birth to nine years old.
39:35
That moment when you're riding away in the park knowing that
39:39
you never going to see Annette again, right like and the chaos
39:44
that ensued. You just didn't know your life
39:46
abruptly ending your physical connection for that moment
39:54
because that you know was severed from your father right.
39:57
Not sure what the relationship looks like you're after, but
40:01
then also having this mother since so beautiful and just so
40:06
soft. But even in our softness, we
40:10
need a little. You better believe.
40:14
It and so with all of that that made you, for lack of a better
40:19
way to put it, the perfect candidate for we pray for a
40:25
predator to come in and just take over your world because you
40:33
have been flying to allow them to come in, to be nice, to be
40:41
sweet, to please. Yeah, to please above.
40:46
All. That is not the truth.
40:50
That is not what is most important.
40:54
And so, yeah. So yeah.
40:59
That those things continued and there just wasn't, you know, you
41:03
mentioned bold, very bold, always have been.
41:07
So I can be like, I don't want you flirting with other people.
41:11
It wasn't like, you know, I'm sorry, you know, I work last.
41:14
Like I like to communicate. I think you should flirt more.
41:18
That's the first I ever heard a man encouraging it.
41:22
Well, OK, so we'll get there. We're on our way.
41:28
We almost there. OK, so when it gets to actually,
41:34
you know, a lot of people started talking about Polly and
41:37
things of that nature. A lot of that started coming up
41:38
in the black community and families and on social media and
41:42
started being a really big conversation.
41:45
So he found his his tribe, as you could say.
41:52
So one of the big parts was that change because we were going to
41:56
church and then he decided that, you know, his beliefs changed.
42:02
And so he left church and he started getting more into Poly
42:07
and telling me or talking about it, you know, bringing it up how
42:11
you know this was the natural way of doing things.
42:15
Before you go too far. So like his beliefs change.
42:19
You mean from Christianity? Christianity he no longer
42:22
believes in God. Like what do you mean when you
42:25
say you change? And he believed in God, that the
42:29
organized religion, OK, as you would say of Christianity and
42:33
the rules, you know, this was never God.
42:36
This is man made though that was his thoughts on it at the time.
42:41
And so from there it grew to pretty much like whatever goes,
42:46
you know, type of thing. And so, yeah, he ended up
42:51
finding that community. So when you hear other people,
42:54
y'all educating each other about, you know, the freedom,
42:58
you know, we got the kids, we can have another woman in here
43:01
doing this, doing that. I wouldn't be stepping out.
43:04
And it's just an ad. And I'm just sitting here
43:07
thinking to myself, just like that, speechless, just stuck,
43:12
just stuck. And so it came up around the
43:17
time when my mother started getting really sick.
43:23
She had been ill and her hers comes from trauma also.
43:28
We ended up finding out that later.
43:31
So sorry. But yeah, so that was that was
43:34
2017. I'm pregnant with my last child
43:39
with my baby girl. And I just remember telling him
43:42
over and over during the pregnancy, please do not ruin
43:46
this for me. Like this is my last time having
43:52
a baby. Just let me be happy.
43:54
Like let me have a happy pregnancy.
43:57
But what would be any different? You asking him to go against
44:01
what he had been doing for decades now, or at least over a
44:04
decade. Yeah, just asking and my mom's
44:08
I'll so, but then this was the time I had I had an event in
44:15
Houston. I ended up finding out that was
44:19
the woman in the audience that he was talking to.
44:22
And this is who he had in his mind for that.
44:26
He would like to bring her in as a second wife.
44:31
Were we were y'all living in Houston?
44:33
Were y'all living in Texas? No, I had an event in Houston
44:36
and so she lived in Houston, so she came to my event.
44:40
This is so layers. I got it so many layers because
44:43
he knew getting back to the sexual deviant and the strategy,
44:49
he knew you were going to his. Then he sought how people in
44:53
Houston. Did he seek her out after your
44:54
event or before your event? I'm saying that to say if he did
45:00
this pre motivated mean premeditated, that meant he
45:04
intentionally looked up people, I'm coming come to this event
45:07
where my wife is going to be come.
45:09
I want to see you here. Even if he doesn't say whatever.
45:12
I don't know what he's telling the other women neither, right?
45:14
But it sounds like he LED or would tell people I'm married.
45:17
And so that would also be a way for him to filter out who's with
45:22
it and who's not. Because if I tell you I got a
45:24
wife and you still entertain me, I got you, You, your your value
45:28
system is so low. Whatever, then.
45:32
Yeah. Because what's safe?
45:34
Exactly. So I'm not at this point when I
45:42
look bad, I was not mentally OK because but everybody has like
45:49
their person. This is like, I mean, they just
45:53
and it could be different people.
45:54
Grandma, whatever. Mine was my mom.
45:56
Yeah. That was my person, yeah.
46:00
And I knew that she was dying. That's.
46:03
But I also had this baby growing in me and so I went into
46:08
depression and I didn't have a big fight for him regarding this
46:12
Polly thing. Eventually I was just like,
46:15
whatever, you know, just doing. He's like, he was like, well,
46:18
she has another. His thing was he was like, well,
46:20
she has her doctorate, she has an income.
46:24
Her and her kids can move in with us.
46:27
Me and her can work. You can run your but he had this
46:30
whole plan and she can help us pay these bills and all this
46:34
kind of stuff. And I'm just sitting there
46:36
stuck. I'm big and I can't even
46:39
function. When I look back in the time I
46:43
felt like I was there, you know, in the moment I'm listening.
46:45
But when I look back, I wasn't even fully like functioning.
46:49
I was just like. You are already grieving.
46:53
You were in a depressive state, you were pregnant, so that's
46:57
going to take away your energy. Anyway, like you, it seems like
47:00
your fight every day was to just get up and continue to grow this
47:05
healthy baby inside of you that I don't even have time.
47:08
So do what you want to do, Sir. Yep, mother time.
47:10
And I'm just trying to stay alive, bring our daughter into
47:14
this world. But I also hear that this the
47:17
way he was saying this about her is that he doesn't understand
47:22
his role as the man to cover. You going to get her because of
47:27
the resources she can bring in? You can't afford her, bro.
47:31
Yeah, it was all. That's what Polly was to.
47:34
Him. Convenience.
47:36
What? Women.
47:37
Yeah. OK, this might sound personal,
47:40
but I want to try to say this where it's not personal.
47:43
It sounds like based on the behavior, he has no problem
47:47
using women. No problem at all.
47:52
Absolutely not. And so, yeah, it's like what you
47:55
said. I just kind of, I don't know
48:01
what to do. So at that point.
48:03
And then there were so many things that I had talked to my
48:05
mom about throughout the years. I was suffering so much on the
48:08
inside because this is just one thing I could not tell her as a
48:12
daughter. I was so embarrassed that I was
48:16
allowing this to go on. Yeah, and so I remember when I
48:22
just said forget it. You know, this is what he's
48:26
going to do anyways. He's telling me because I'm
48:29
pregnant. So at the time I'm not working.
48:33
You know, we need this income. And you know, if you try to stop
48:37
me from being with her, you being selfish as a woman or you
48:41
need to go get a job and I'm like.
48:43
What? I'm doing like 3 weeks.
48:49
I'm not against getting a job, but it's like I'm about to have
48:51
a baby. My mom, it could be any other
48:54
day, but he's like, you know, and I believe Mama is like about
48:58
to die and I'm big and pregnant. No income right now because I'm
49:03
about to have a baby and he's in here like, well, she has a
49:07
doctorate. She can come in here and help
49:09
pay these bills. I'll just have sex with you and
49:11
her then, you know, and I'm like, she had two kids and I'm
49:16
like, so you want her two kids to move in here with our four?
49:20
You want me to stay at home? I'm just like saying all this
49:23
out loud, just processing. And I went into this quiet
49:28
depressive state. And so I remember one time he
49:32
had her over and I'm just like, I had no fight anymore.
49:38
And I remember one night of, you know, allowing and engaging in a
49:42
threesome. And I will never forget this
49:46
moment. I got up in the middle of it and
49:51
I walked out of the room and I walked in my kitchen and I put
49:57
my head down on the counter and I just bent over my belly.
50:01
It was so big. And it just hung.
50:05
And I just, I just cried when I process, I mean, I won't forget
50:12
that moment because I remember the level of sorrow.
50:16
It was sorrow in me. And what I was thinking about
50:21
was my mother and how disappointed she would be in me.
50:27
And I felt sorrow. And of course, you know,
50:33
somebody, I mean, I would think somebody get up there, you know?
50:36
Hey, you good? They studying there, having sex.
50:39
And so I didn't say nothing. I needed to be alone and there
50:45
was no nothing to do. It was just sorry.
50:47
That's all I felt. All I felt was sorrow and
50:51
embarrassment because it wasn't my truth.
50:55
But I felt too mentally imbalanced to do anything.
50:58
Yeah, And then I'm hearing, you know, you're processing.
51:02
OK, Well, then if I do this, then where am I going to go
51:05
right now? I have to have time to have the
51:07
baby and heal, and then I have to have time to look for a job
51:10
again, all the when all these things are simultaneously
51:13
happening and then got to bury her, then I got you're doing.
51:18
I'm mentally out of control, but I'm silent.
51:22
That's just on the outside. It was a whole lot stirring
51:26
going standing on the inside. Chaos.
51:30
And the body keeps score. And the by the body keeps the
51:35
score. That is absolutely true.
51:38
And so my mom passed September 9th of 2017.
51:44
And I was, I remember I was at an event, I saw her the day
51:49
before I went to the hospital. I kept going back and forth.
51:51
So like I said, I'm being pregnant.
51:53
And I remember the day, the last time I talked to her, she said,
51:57
Renee, all my family cost me Renee.
51:59
Nobody actually cost me sharing in my family.
52:02
And so she said, Renee, you got to stop coming up here so much
52:06
because you are like Brady to pop.
52:11
And I was like, well, mom, I want to, you know, come see you
52:13
every day. And I said, OK, I came today.
52:18
I won't come tomorrow. I'll come on Sunday.
52:22
It was on a Friday. I said I'll come on Sunday.
52:24
So then I had an event the next day on Saturday and I got to the
52:29
event and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is only like 2-3
52:34
minutes from the hospital. I had no idea where I was going,
52:37
was so close. So I was like, I'm going to see
52:39
her anyway because I'm right up the street.
52:41
Yeah. I get a call from my sister that
52:45
was there at the hospital with her and she was like, she isn't,
52:48
you know, she's not responding all of a sudden when I tell you
52:53
because one of my fears was not being there.
52:58
If my mom passed for years, she got diagnosed with the
53:03
autoimmune disease and she had issues with her heart and her
53:09
lung and all of that links to trauma.
53:14
And so she was a very healthy woman, very healthy.
53:18
I remember her working out four times a week, always ate real
53:22
good and healthy. But the body keeps the score.
53:26
And your mom was a woman. I don't know how old she was
53:29
when y'all was Mississippi, what she might have went through as a
53:33
child, and then her own choices. She had a positive.
53:39
She had a wonderful childhood, wonderful childhood, but my dad
53:44
was very abuseful, like I said, sexually abusive.
53:46
So your children being abused by their father, your partner, it's
53:53
extremely traumatic. I mean, then also the physical
53:56
abuse. So as we said, the, you know,
53:59
you can do all these things you want to do, but the body keeps
54:02
the score. She still ended up going through
54:05
this illness and I was at that event.
54:09
I got off that phone. I didn't care about none of the
54:12
stuff I was selling. I left all my products.
54:17
I had some other family there. Y'all get my kids.
54:21
I got to go, but I. Can't.
54:23
I can't miss this moment in my big old cell I had on a yellow
54:29
dress. I was running down a hill do any
54:32
day. I ran down this big hill because
54:36
it was the fastest way to get to my car and I was flying.
54:41
You hear me? I get to the hospital, I'm
54:44
running, I get to the elevator and I get up there and the nurse
54:48
said, you know, she has 16% oxygen left, so you don't have
54:53
long, but she can still hear you.
54:55
Yeah. But we always said everything,
54:58
appreciation, love, cures. There was nothing else to say,
55:01
but I still just laid on her chest and just spoke how much I
55:06
just loved her and cared for her.
55:08
And. I'm going to miss her and I just
55:11
laid on her chest until it stopped so I was able which was
55:17
only maybe like 4 breaths so I'm glad I took that heal.
55:22
Made a huge difference. And thank God I didn't roll down
55:27
and with my big old self, but I that moment, I don't even know
55:32
how different I would have taken her passing if I would have just
55:36
got a call saying, oh, it happened.
55:40
So my thing was, even though it was so close, I still was able
55:45
to catch that the last couple of heartbeats.
55:48
But even Sharon, this is not why I worked.
55:51
You were just there nodding your business And he said I'm a
55:54
pretty close enough. And then you need to recognize
55:57
I'm really close to the hospital.
56:00
I'm going to go see my girl. I'm go see my Mama.
56:03
Yeah. I mean, when I say close, I'm
56:05
talking 3 minutes. I was.
56:08
And when I was driving there, I'm like the house puddle's
56:10
right there. That's all.
56:11
I didn't know that my mom was going to be passing and I
56:13
needed. To be that close, that's all I
56:15
got to work. I needed to be that close.
56:18
So she passes. We have the funeral seven days
56:27
later. I have my daughter the day after
56:31
the funeral. And that was my prayer.
56:34
I said, look, doctors, I need y'all to know that under no
56:39
circumstance am I going to miss my mother's funeral.
56:44
So let's figure this out or I'm going to break some rules.
56:50
I'm going to have to clean up, do whatever.
56:52
Put me in a wheelchair if you must, if I have my child before
56:57
this funeral, Made it to the funeral the day after my water
57:04
broke. So I made it and I had her.
57:08
And I remember being in the hospital getting ready to go on
57:12
labor. And I see him on the phone and
57:16
he's all excited. And he's excited that this woman
57:21
is coming down to help the one that he wanted to make his
57:26
second wife. So I'm here.
57:28
Actually, as a woman, I'm like, he's not excited about the birth
57:31
of his child, but this woman's arrival.
57:34
His focus was that woman, OK, even though he knew my mom since
57:41
he was 18 years old and she's been such a sweet person.
57:45
His focus was so much on this opportunity of Polly.
57:50
And that's another thing that I had to face with my therapist
57:53
and talk about. It's like I can't remember him
57:56
at the funeral. I have.
57:58
I know he had to be there, but I have no memory with trauma and
58:03
we going to talk about that. You can lose a lot of memory.
58:06
I have no memory of him being there but I remember the moment
58:12
of seeing the sheer joy on his face that this woman was on her
58:18
way here and driving from Houston to be able to spend time
58:22
from Houston which is like 4 hours for drive.
58:27
OK. OK.
58:28
So while we're in West City. I'm in the DFW area.
58:33
OK, so at the time Fort Worth, OK, so we're like 4 hours from
58:39
there and so I'm just too tired for anything.
58:43
I am. You're grieving, you just gave
58:45
me by. I thought I knew what grief was.
58:48
I had no idea. Grief is something else,
58:52
especially Mama and if you were very, very close.
58:58
And so that and then it's such opposite things because it's
59:03
like I had three boys and man, I bury I've had to see my mother
59:07
in a casket yesterday, which was a huge fear of mine.
59:13
And then here I am with this brand new baby girl that I
59:15
finally had a daughter. And I remember my mom telling me
59:18
just a few days before she died, she said, I really wish I could
59:21
see your daughter because I can't even imagine you with a
59:25
girl. I can't believe you having a
59:27
girl. And I said, mom, don't say that,
59:30
but she knew that she wasn't going to make it.
59:33
And so having those opposite feelings was crazy when I look
59:38
back and then him, you know, trying to pull somebody in
59:44
during this time is and at this time, I'm not fussing or not
59:52
when you get to a place where you are just tired.
59:56
Like, yeah. There's nothing I can do right
59:59
now and so I went, had the baby and had a healthy baby girl and
1:00:09
left the hospital. So she was at my home while I
1:00:14
was in the hospital and while I so he was there for her birth.
1:00:20
But the next day, which was 24 hours I spent in the hospital,
1:00:24
just me and the baby, he hung out with her and her children
1:00:28
the whole day. That's when I called and I said,
1:00:32
where are you? They were somewhere in Dallas
1:00:36
bowling. You're in the hospital
1:00:39
recovering from giving birth to y'all and daughter and he's out.
1:00:45
He's out on a date with this woman and her.
1:00:48
Thank you for tuning in for another episode of Rise and
1:00:50
Thrive. Please come back by parts two
1:00:52
and three of Becoming Whole, Leaving Toxic Love and Finding
1:00:56
Self with Sharon Gladney.