Latest / Scrappy but Successful [Consultant's Personalities When No One's Watching] / 61. Hustle to Engine: Building a Sales Machine Beyond the Founder with Matt Lauro

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61. Hustle to Engine: Building a Sales Machine Beyond the Founder with Matt Lauro · Scrappy but Successful [Consultant's Personalities When No One's Watching]

• 0:03
  What's happening, everybody? Welcome to Scrappy But Successful. This is a show where I sit
• 0:07
  down with your favorite consultants and we find out if they're successful today because they're
• 0:12
  sophisticated or because they're a little bit scrappy. I'm your host, Jack Tompkins, CEO of
• 0:16
  Pineapple Consulting Firm and Pineapple Analyst AI, always helping small businesses become more data-driven. Fun
• 0:21
  fact of the day, our guests alma mater. So, Virginia Tech, the school's mascot is
• 0:26
  named Hokie. A lot of people know that. But it was literally invented for a
• 0:30
  $5 prize. Some kid won a contest in 1890, and the name has stuck ever
• 0:35
  since. Big fan of the hokies, love their tailgates, but that's neither here nor there.
• 0:39
  Today I'm joined by Matt my friend Matt Lauro. He's the founder of Fractional CRO.
• 0:44
  he's got over a decade and a half experience in workforce solutions and recruitment. He's
• 0:49
  a revenue strategist who helps companies align sales marketing ops and the client experience. Basically
• 0:53
  the goal is to help them scale predictably working with teams. So Matt, thank you
• 0:58
  for joining, man. We've known each other for a while. We know that you're successful.
• 1:02
  The question we have for you today, do you think you fall more on the
• 1:07
  sophisticated side or more on the scrappy side?
• 1:10
  good question. Thanks for having me, Jack. And I did know that fun fact about
• 1:12
  Virginia Tech. I did know that. I
• 1:14
  Did you? Okay, nice.
• 1:16
  think every every freshman going at to going to tech knows that. But I would
• 1:20
  say a hundred percent on the scrappy side. and I'm very,
• 1:23
  Nice.
• 1:24
  very happy to admit that and talk about that and I d I do all
• 1:27
  the time with with other people that that call me up and ask for advice.
• 1:31
  So
• 1:32
  Okay, very nice. All right. So this is tried and true, through and through, whatever
• 1:35
  you wanna say. Is this is this from the beginning? Like take us back. Where
• 1:39
  did you grow up? Did you have some scrappy entrepreneurs in the family?
• 1:43
  Yeah, so I really honestly didn't grow up, I would say, in an entrepreneurial kind
• 1:47
  of family. My my dad was a police officer. So he he kind of grew
• 1:51
  up through the ranks and ended up being chief in for the US Park Police
• 1:56
  in DC, which was awesome to kind of see that. But that was a very
• 2:00
  typical normal job. my mom maybe more kind of on the entrepreneur, but kind of
• 2:05
  always in the corporate space. I would say probably the scrappiness came from well, you
• 2:09
  know. back in the day, I two younger brothers always kind of looking to make
• 2:14
  extra money so that we can go buy, you know, go to the toy store
• 2:18
  and buy something. So lemonade stands, you know, pictures to try to sell our parents
• 2:23
  for a couple of dollars here and there, doing chores around the house. So like
• 2:27
  that that kind of approach of like money actually got me what I wanted. I
• 2:32
  lost that to be honest, Jack, over like the last fifteen, twenty years in the
• 2:36
  corporate space because I was just kind of trying to climb the corporate ladder where
• 2:41
  I think probably came from from my dad and kind of his corporate journey through
• 2:45
  like the law enforcement. and then and got it back when I started fractional CRO
• 2:50
  and I think the scrappiness has followed the last couple of years, which has been
• 2:54
  fun.
• 2:55
  Very nice. Okay, cool. So as a kid, you're go you're running around with your
• 2:58
  three brothers saying, Hey, where can we make a couple bucks? You do the lemonade
• 3:02
  stand. Are you collecting anything?
• 3:04
  Yeah, no, collecting money. I mean it didn't sit in our piggy bank.
• 3:06
  Collecting money.
• 3:08
  It didn't it didn't sit in our piggy bank very long, you know, we were
• 3:09
  going
• 3:10
  Okay.
• 3:11
  out and spending it right away. But yeah, we did collect stuff just to ultimately
• 3:14
  get what we wanted.
• 3:16
  Okay. Did you collect anything like Pokemon cards, baseball cards, anything like that?
• 3:19
  collecting that I've yeah, I mean we I collected stamps, which is kind of weird
• 3:23
  and I look now. I have two younger two younger sons and they look at
• 3:28
  my stamp collection, they're like, That's weird, Dad. Like why why do you discount that?
• 3:32
  but they did really like my soccer cards and baseball cards and football cards that
• 3:37
  I collected. So some kind of old school I I was born in the eighties,
• 3:41
  so to them feels old school kind of cards and I pass those all down
• 3:46
  to them and they're super into collecting cards now with them and their friends, which
• 3:50
  is awesome. so yeah, collected that and then very random thing. I don't have any
• 3:55
  of them anymore. two random things. One pogs. I don't know if you remember if
• 3:59
  you grew up with Pogs, we had
• 4:02
  Sure. Yeah.
• 4:04
  sleeves and sleeves of Pogs, me and my brothers. And then I played soccer growing
• 4:08
  up most of my life. So we would go to tournaments and everybody would trade
• 4:12
  pins. So like actual little metal pins and you would have like a bag of
• 4:16
  pins and you would have your team pins and trade them back and forth with
• 4:20
  different teams from around the country, which was cool. But I have no idea where
• 4:24
  that is. I assume it got lost in somewhere in my family house. but I
• 4:28
  I do still remember collecting that. It was pretty cool back in the day.
• 4:32
  That's pretty good. Okay. Ever ever the aspiration of hey, maybe one day these would
• 4:36
  be worth a couple of bucks and it'll make me rich?
• 4:39
  I think I probably had that, right? Now I see it through my my sons,
• 4:43
  my especially my oldest son who's nine, his eyes. I mean, he is collecting and
• 4:47
  now hopping on the iPad and like, this card is worth three dollars or four
• 4:51
  dollars. And I I've kind of tried to pass down the entrepreneurial spirit and the
• 4:55
  scrappiness to him. So we he had a whole box of Pokemon cards. For example,
• 4:59
  we went to a Pokemon shop here in Charlotte because he wanted to make money,
• 5:03
  he wanted to sell them on eBay, unsuccessful, went to the Pokemon shop. spent about
• 5:08
  fifteen, twenty minutes the guy sorted through them and then gave him forty dollars. And
• 5:12
  he was upset
• 5:13
  Okay.
• 5:14
  'cause he had in his mind something bigger, you know, because he searched all the
• 5:16
  cars and thought like, you know, obviously looked at the highest price. I was like,
• 5:20
  that was forty dollars that, you know, was just sitting in a drawer. Now you
• 5:24
  can go and spend it on something else or invest it in something else. So
• 5:28
  ultimately I think it was a good lesson in kind of entrepreneurialship and you know
• 5:31
  changing something for something better or something that you want more. So
• 5:35
  Yeah. That's I mean, especially at nine years old, like that's a pretty big lesson
• 5:38
  to learn, I imagine.
• 5:40
  Yeah. Yeah. So it was it was good. He was a little upset that he
• 5:43
  didn't get as much money as he wanted, but then he ended up going and
• 5:46
  investing it in in soccer cards, World Cup soccer cards. So he he he was
• 5:49
  happy after that. So Yeah. Exactly.
• 5:51
  Okay, we've got a nine year old investor in the family. All right, cool. are
• 5:56
  you guys big Charlotte FC fans?
• 5:58
  Huge season ticket holder since the beginning. So yeah, I'll actually I'll actually be going
• 6:03
  this weekend for my son's birthday to the
• 6:06
  Nice.
• 6:07
  so yeah.
• 6:08
  that's super cool. That's awesome. Okay. All right. Give me give me thirty seconds on
• 6:11
  today. What the heck do you do today? What the heck is a fractional CRO?
• 6:15
  And then we're gonna build a bridge from you collecting stamps as a kid to
• 6:19
  today.
• 6:20
  Yeah. Awesome. So yeah, fractional CRO is really combining sales and marketing, which I've I've
• 6:25
  done both kind of in the corporate space, and looking at sales and marketing to
• 6:30
  drive ultimate pipeline. Right. So fractional CRO was built with combining those two typically siloed
• 6:35
  pieces of an of an organization. And really as I've formed the business over the
• 6:40
  last several years, I found really the crux of where my services come in. Is
• 6:45
  when those founders are driving all their business, they're scaling their business based on their
• 6:50
  relationships, their network, you know, they are the ultimate salesperson. There becomes an inflection point
• 6:55
  where they need to get out of the sales leadership role and really build out
• 7:00
  that engine that scales beyond them and their relationships. So that's really where fractional CRO
• 7:05
  comes in. and so my days are, you know, working with founder-led businesses, you know,
• 7:10
  here locally in the Charlotte market, but really nation and now inner I've brought on
• 7:15
  a couple international customers that are looking to enter the US market, so international as
• 7:20
  well. helping them, you know, build up their pipeline, build up their go to market,
• 7:25
  and ultimately drive, you know, scalability within their organizations. There you go. You could get
• 7:30
  them connected.
• 7:31
  Nice. Maybe maybe they want to buy some World Cup soccer cards too. You never
• 7:35
  know. Okay, very cool. So if I if I'm a founder, I'm a founder-led company,
• 7:40
  whatever, five, ten employees, something like that, and sales are not stalled, but maybe flat
• 7:45
  or not growing as much as I want. The knee-jerk reaction is, all right, well,
• 7:50
  let me go hire a VP of sales or a sales rep or like that.
• 7:55
  One hundred. Yeah.
• 7:56
  Is that I'm assuming that's not a hundred percent the case, right? There's gotta be
• 8:00
  some sort of maybe a CRO works better in other situations, right?
• 8:04
  Yeah, I actually just wrote a blog about this recently because it is a topic
• 8:08
  that continuously comes up in a lot of conversations. I've seen a lot of founders
• 8:12
  go down that route. And I would say that honestly, I said 100%, meaning like
• 8:16
  that's typically the knee-jerk reaction. It's not the right, it's not the right move typically.
• 8:21
  Yeah.
• 8:22
  So throwing people or throwing technology at a problem, you from a technology probably know
• 8:25
  this and see it firsthand, usually never solves the problem. It just kind of throws
• 8:29
  that band-aid on there. And that's the same with a a head of sales. So
• 8:33
  Couple things, right? You're going to hire somebody, they're going to sell themselves because they're
• 8:38
  good at set selling, right? So they're going to sell themselves that they're going to
• 8:42
  bring over this book of business, that they have all this, they have all that.
• 8:46
  A lot of times, if your sales process is, there is no sales process, it's
• 8:50
  non-existent or it's broken, no matter how good the salesperson is, they're not going to
• 8:55
  be able to drive the type of impact you're expecting, right? Even if they bring
• 8:59
  over books of business and stuff like that, it's not going to be that scalable
• 9:03
  growth that you're looking for. So typically, a lot of times and I've seen like
• 9:07
  I said founders hire the salespeople, you know, spend a lot of money on them
• 9:12
  and then they just don't produce a year. And there's activity here and there, but
• 9:16
  nothing really comes out of it. The smarter route and a lot of founders are
• 9:20
  now that I'm talking to are seeing this of having somebody like myself come in
• 9:24
  and really build that that process. So that process enabled by technology, that sales process
• 9:29
  that you could ultimately pass it on to a sales leader to then drive forward
• 9:33
  and and drive the team forward. Or you don't even maybe need as senior level
• 9:37
  of a person as you initially thought. You could bring on more junior people because
• 9:41
  the process is so buttoned up that they all they need to do is kind
• 9:46
  of follow that step and let the technology do a lot from kind of the
• 9:50
  back end. so that's really a a lot of the conversations, especially recently. I think
• 9:54
  it's becoming more and more you know top of mind for these founders of like
• 9:58
  I could go and hire a VP of sales, but it's gonna be, you know,
• 10:03
  150, 200, you know, all in, you know, six figures, high six figures, or I
• 10:07
  could bring in somebody on a fractional basis to build the engine and then have
• 10:11
  somebody go run the engine down the road.
• 10:14
  Okay. And you come from the staffing and sort of like the recruiting space quite
• 10:19
  a bit too.
• 10:20
  Yeah.
• 10:21
  Is if somebody if a founder brings on somebody and they're doing okay, but to
• 10:24
  your point there's they're never gonna reach as much as the founder did, is the
• 10:29
  knee jerk reaction then to be like, well, I made a bad hiring decision?
• 10:34
  Sometimes it is, right? Sometimes usually the underlying is that the the sales process is
• 10:38
  broken, right? The edge and that that salesperson is supposed to be moving forward is
• 10:43
  just not there. It's not it it doesn't exist or it's broken. And that sales
• 10:47
  leader, you know, typically, depending on their background, but most likely 95% of the sales
• 10:52
  leaders aren't looking at what a CRO looks at and aren't understanding kind of the
• 10:57
  intricacies of the sales pipeline and the data and the conversion. version points and all
• 11:01
  those things that we look at as a CRO. So they might not even see
• 11:06
  it, right? They might just, I need more activity, I need more activity. We're targeting
• 11:10
  the wrong person and make shifts, right? Where those shifts can be detrimental to the
• 11:15
  business, right? If they're not made the the right way. or kind of with the
• 11:20
  right lens on. So yeah, that is t normally the knee knee jerk reaction. The
• 11:24
  knee jerk reaction should be, hey, let me look a level below that person and
• 11:29
  see if our actual sales approach and go to market approach is the right approach.
• 11:34
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It makes so much sense, especially in the world of AI. Like
• 11:37
  you can build out a lot of processes and then insert the human into the
• 11:41
  right spots or something along those lines.
• 11:43
  Hundred percent.
• 11:44
  I have you always had this? Like what what what was the very first job
• 11:47
  in high school? What were you doing?
• 11:49
  Very first job in high school, I was for several years actually in high school,
• 11:53
  I was a banquet server and waiter at a country club in Chantilly, Virginia. So
• 11:57
  Ooh, okay.
• 12:00
  yeah, I was serving in like the little grill area at the country club and
• 12:04
  then we would do weddings and big events and stuff like that, you know, big
• 12:08
  banquet. kind of events which was which was fun. I had then buddies that worked
• 12:12
  in the golf pro shop so we would get to hang out at work all
• 12:16
  the time. but yeah it was an interesting interesting environment for sure to be in.
• 12:20
  Yeah. I've got some nice tips are getting thrown around there too. And did you
• 12:24
  still have that same mindset of all right, I just made money, let's go spend
• 12:28
  it. Okay. Okay.
• 12:29
  No, definitely not anymore. Now I mean now I mean to a degree, right? I
• 12:33
  think there's certain things that as a family, right, we definitely value over others from
• 12:38
  spending money on this versus that. but you know, as as you know, when you
• 12:42
  grow up and then you have more responsibilities and it's not just you anymore. You
• 12:47
  you know, I have a wife, I have two kids, two dogs, right? There's a
• 12:51
  lot of people and you know, living beings that are relying on me. So I
• 12:56
  need to make sure that I'm not just going and and spending money willy-nilly. so
• 13:00
  it's more of, you know, working and and making the money to get to the
• 13:05
  means of, you know, what we want to do as a family.
• 13:09
  And so with that I have to imagine the the leap from the cushy corpor
• 13:13
  I won't say cushy, but like the corporate job of security to starting your own
• 13:17
  business, what was it four years ago now, five years ago?
• 13:20
  Yeah, so full all in. I was doing it as a side gig, kind of.
• 13:22
  I was
• 13:23
  Yeah.
• 13:24
  in the corporate space and then doing this on the side with just some kind
• 13:27
  of founder led businesses in Charlotte. and then I made the full leap early last
• 13:31
  year. So it's been about a year and a half now. fully.
• 13:34
  And how was that conversation in the house? Was that like, hey, I'm finally doing
• 13:37
  the thing or was there was it nervous? How wasn't?
• 13:40
  it was definitely the good thing is I was kind of already doing it a
• 13:44
  little bit at a very small scale on the side, so it wasn't like totally
• 13:48
  blank slate. but for sure it was it took my wife probably three to six
• 13:52
  months to kind of wrap her arms around like, okay, this could actually be something
• 13:56
  viable. and this is and you say security, which is funny because I was I
• 14:00
  would always say like that security as well in the corporate space, but to me
• 14:04
  it's it's a false sense of security. you quickly realize, I mean, pop up LinkedIn
• 14:09
  on any day, right? And there's people that have been in bus in the corporations,
• 14:13
  you know, companies for 10, 15, 20 years. And then at a drop of a
• 14:17
  dime, you know, consultant comes in, a new leader comes in, a market shifts, and
• 14:21
  they're out of a job, right? So you have this false sense of security that
• 14:25
  everything's good. You're in this big corporate environment. But at the end of the day,
• 14:29
  I hate to say you're just kind of a number or just a wheel, you
• 14:34
  know, a cog wheel and a cog wheel or however you say that saying. But
• 14:38
  I mean, it it's sad, but when you've kind of gone to the other side,
• 14:42
  you realize like it wasn't as secure as you maybe thought, right? I think you
• 14:46
  actually have more security doing your own thing because you create your own destiny, right?
• 14:50
  And I that was always told to me by entrepreneurs that I know, family, friends.
• 14:54
  I just never understood it until I made that leap myself.
• 14:58
  And how did you start it on the side in the first place? What was
• 15:01
  there an aha moment or you're just tired of corporate? Like what's what's because you
• 15:05
  you did it the right way, it sounds like. You got experience, you started on
• 15:09
  the side, worked out a few years, made sure that everything was set up and
• 15:12
  then built it. Like how do you actually jump into that entrepreneurial environment?
• 15:16
  Yeah, so I I've always I've always wanted to do something myself, right? I've always
• 15:20
  kinda wanted to be my own boss. I always it was I I didn't want
• 15:24
  to make the jump just from Corp and just one day start a new business
• 15:28
  because I have Like I said earlier, I have a lot of people relying on
• 15:32
  me, right? So I needed to make a little bit more of a calculated thing.
• 15:36
  So I really I have some friends here that are part of like EO and
• 15:40
  Charlotte and have their own companies and just kind of threw together some like one
• 15:44
  page business plans like we all do at the beginning and shared it with them,
• 15:48
  got some feedback, and then just started to get my feelers out there and like
• 15:52
  some of my original cus you know, customers that, you know, I I brought in
• 15:56
  were friends of friends, right? That just, you know, hey, this is a need, let's
• 16:00
  do it. And I quickly realized in those kind of conversations that I, and I
• 16:04
  don't know how you feel when you started your company, but I always felt like
• 16:08
  would people really pay me for what I know and what I'm able to do?
• 16:12
  and you quickly realize when you're in those conversations, like the 20 plus years of
• 16:16
  experience I've had in corporate and living international and working in different cultures, all of
• 16:20
  this like to me feels like it's just kind of common knowledge because I've grown
• 16:24
  up in that space and I've learned it as I've gone. to founders that haven't
• 16:28
  been in that space, it was like a lot of really just different ways of
• 16:32
  thinking and things that they would never even think about or be able to plug
• 16:37
  into a Google or an AI and and come up with. So that level of
• 16:41
  just like I guess expertise to a degree and it still feels uncomfortable to kind
• 16:45
  of say that people pay you for your expertise. But that level was really it
• 16:49
  was like a light bulb moment of hey, this could actually this could actually be
• 16:53
  something right. So I was, yeah, I was just doing some smaller kind of client
• 16:57
  engagements on the side. I was running global marketing in the corporate space. and I'm
• 17:01
  glad I did it that way because, you know, I sat down with my father-in-law
• 17:05
  who's a business owner, and he kind of told me years ago, he's like, basically
• 17:09
  what I just said, you have a family, you know, you need to be smart
• 17:13
  about it. You need to maybe probably get a couple more years, build up your
• 17:17
  network, and then you can go do something on your own. And that's what I
• 17:21
  did. And I think I I did it at the right moment where, you know,
• 17:25
  I kind of eased into it, left the corporate space and then was able to
• 17:29
  kind of, you know, fire on all cylinders once once the corporate job was behind
• 17:33
  me.
• 17:34
  Very n I mean, it's it's a sophisticated way to go about it. was it
• 17:38
  are you a patient person? This feels like you're you're doing it very methodically. Is
• 17:42
  that a natural tendency for you? Or were you at some point like screw it,
• 17:46
  I'm just gonna do it?
• 17:48
  No, I'm very I'm very patient and probably very populated
• 17:50
  Okay, okay.
• 17:51
  when it comes to that. I think I don't feel like I come across, but
• 17:55
  I've had people, clients, friends, family tell me I come across very process oriented, which
• 17:59
  I don't see I see myself more on the creative kind of ideas strategy side,
• 18:03
  but people say I come across much more process oriented. So I think hopefully I
• 18:08
  have a mix of both, because I think that makes actually a strong CRO.
• 18:12
  Very much so. for the purpose of this show, very scrappy and sophisticated at the
• 18:16
  same time.
• 18:17
  Yeah, exactly. So I guess to answer your initial question it's probably a little bit
• 18:19
  of both, but I feel like it's more scrappy than anything.
• 18:21
  Right. Gotcha. Okay. Anything that you really overthought when you were starting your business, especially
• 18:28
  when you went full time.
• 18:31
  I probably I mean, so overthought and keeps me up at night are two different
• 18:35
  things. I mean, the overthought is I probably overthought kind of the pricing and like
• 18:40
  my approach and I don't know, coming from like a marketing mindset and marketing roles
• 18:45
  in the corporate space, probably like kind of how I came across, right? And at
• 18:50
  the end of the day I realized like customers really at this stage at least,
• 18:55
  right? And as I scale and grow, this will change and evolve, but they're buying.
• 19:00
  me right so like it doesn't really matter how my proposal comes across or how
• 19:05
  this comes across like actually now move some proposals are just an email communication back
• 19:10
  and forth right I'm not even spending the time to build out a full on
• 19:15
  three four page nicely designed proposal because I don't think that ultimately matters right if
• 19:19
  you're if you're delivering kind of the impact that that individual that the founder wants.
• 19:24
  so I I think I've probably overthought those elements just because that's kind of the
• 19:29
  background that I've come from like everything needs to be
• 19:33
  Yeah. I so on that note too, you're a you're a CRO, you're an expert
• 19:36
  in the field. How the heck do you price for fractional services? I think this
• 19:40
  is a larger conversation for a lot of different fractionals, but how the heck do
• 19:44
  you actually set a price?
• 19:46
  So that I think is one thing that I've constantly struggled with. I think I'm
• 19:50
  at a much better spot now. you know, when you start off a business, you're
• 19:54
  kind I mean you could run Google searches and all this, but it's just i
• 19:58
  the you have a couple of things working against you. You fractional is a newer
• 20:03
  term in the space, right? So you're not really a consultant, like so you can't
• 20:07
  compare yourself to the big consulting firms. You're not a contractor, so you can't compare
• 20:11
  yourself to a contractor coming in at an hourly rate. so there's really no data
• 20:15
  to kind of back it up. there's more and more now, more people are coming
• 20:20
  into the market in fractional space. CRO is also a newer term. So a lot
• 20:24
  of my you know, conversations with founders is a lot of education on like what
• 20:28
  is a fractional, how do you engage a fractional properly? What's the impact a fractional
• 20:32
  makes versus a full time hire versus contractor versus consultant? And then CRO being a
• 20:37
  newer term, right? Like I'm not coming in and leading your sales, but I'm not
• 20:41
  coming in and leading your marketing. I'm doing both, right? And I'm connecting the dots.
• 20:45
  So The pricing, I mean, I I want w again, kind of the scrappiness just
• 20:49
  went and asked some people like, Hey, you're a business owner, what would you pay
• 20:54
  for this, right? and I've kind of now come to a conclusion where probably like
• 20:58
  a lot of people in my role, you undervalue your cost and you kind of
• 21:02
  lowball it just to get the business. And I definitely did that at the beginning.
• 21:06
  I now I'm at the point where there's a bottom and I won't go below
• 21:11
  that because I I know the value. And honestly, there's only so many hours in
• 21:15
  the day. Right. So I I only have so much time and I wanna spend
• 21:19
  my time on the clients that are gonna value me, but I typically kind of
• 21:23
  have tiers, right? Like fully embedded CRO, dedicated time, you know, like that's that's the
• 21:28
  highest tier. So there's like more of a mid tier where I'm an extension of
• 21:32
  your team embedded and then more of like an advisory tier. And they're based on
• 21:36
  I don't I don't charge myself powerly. It's a monthly retainer cost based on a
• 21:40
  set kind of like range of hours. because I also know two things. I don't
• 21:45
  want to overcharge you if I'm really slow and bad at what I do. Like
• 21:49
  I don't want to be that loyal. that just charges for hours. I don't think
• 21:53
  that's valuable. Two, I want it to be simple to engage with me in my
• 21:58
  services. So, you know, if you're a founder, you have a lot of other expenses,
• 22:02
  a lot of other things that I want you to just know, okay, every single
• 22:06
  month, this is going to be the charge that I have to pay Matt to
• 22:10
  keep him on board. And then third, a lot of stuff comes up, right? So
• 22:15
  I might, you know, say I'm gonna dedicate 20 to 25 hours a month to
• 22:19
  your business. The beginning is probably much more than that, right? I'm probably dedicating 40,
• 22:23
  50 because I'm really diving in. We're building out some foundational stuff. And then it
• 22:27
  might go back to more of a 2025 in three, four, five, six months, but
• 22:32
  you're not fluctuating kind of your, you know, your retainer because of that, right? It
• 22:36
  kind of just evens out. so a much more of a simplistic, you know, one
• 22:40
  page consulting agreement. simple retainer fee that we agree on and make it as easy
• 22:44
  as possible to engage because I think that goes a long way you know with
• 22:49
  the type of buyer that's buying these services, you know, the founder that has a
• 22:53
  million other things going on. So that's how I've I've done it. I just I
• 22:57
  still don't think I'm perfect, right? I think I probably still have some improvement to
• 23:01
  refine that even more, but I feel like I'm in a really a much better
• 23:06
  spot than I was like a year ago for sure.
• 23:09
  Okay. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. There's a there's
• 23:13
  a safety in expectations of the flat fee on a monthly basis for a client.
• 23:17
  how do you how did you get your first clients? Were they all referral based?
• 23:21
  Did you do any like ridiculous marketing to get those first clients? How did that
• 23:25
  happen? Okay.
• 23:26
  All referral based. so we're just yeah, friends of friends or you know, honestly now
• 23:30
  if I look back even over like the last year and a half, a a
• 23:34
  third of it comes from referrals, a third comes from LinkedIn. So I do a
• 23:39
  lot of posting on LinkedIn, just kind of personal updates, business stuff, you know, people
• 23:43
  will come in, either new prospects or people that have been in my network, right?
• 23:48
  And have just seen that I'm doing this type of work will come in. and
• 23:52
  then the other third is my website. So there was a reason I chose fractional
• 23:57
  CRO as my name because I don't have to pay for, you know, Google Ad
• 24:01
  Space and stuff like that. People are searching it. So now more and more people
• 24:06
  booking directly on my website, meetings, prospect meetings. with me. I asked them, you know,
• 24:10
  how did you find me? And a lot of the times it's, you know, I
• 24:15
  was it's like a chat GPT or some other AI module and doing searching and
• 24:19
  fractional CRO popped up. So it's the website for sure, but then it's the constant
• 24:24
  kind of content and updating of the website to make sure it's you know ranking
• 24:28
  properly. But I would say it's very evenly if I look kind of at my
• 24:33
  pipeline and existing customers, it's a third referrals, a third LinkedIn and a third, you
• 24:37
  know, direct to the website.
• 24:39
  Pretty good. That's pretty good.
• 24:40
  Yeah.
• 24:41
  You were drinking your own champagne. I respect it.
• 24:43
  Yeah, exactly.
• 24:45
  anything that you did where you're like, like 100%, we can totally do that. Absolutely,
• 24:49
  very confident in it, but you've never actually done it before.
• 24:53
  I think just being a fractional CRO, right? Like You
• 24:55
  Yeah.
• 24:57
  know, I mean it's a brand new thing. So I, you know, is coming from
• 25:00
  the corporate world and you know, hey, we we want to do this engagement. Great.
• 25:04
  Yeah, I'll like can you you know, can we get started? Can you, you know,
• 25:07
  can you build you I mean, my first customer actually was the one that pushed
• 25:11
  me to a monthly retainer. I was initially Set to do project work. My big
• 25:15
  thing was do a gap analysis, dive into the business, spend a couple of weeks
• 25:18
  with them, come back with a big report so your typical kind of consulting. And
• 25:22
  then on the back of that report, have a list of projects. You know, we'll
• 25:26
  define your ICP, we'll build out your go-to market framework, we'll build out your outbound
• 25:29
  approach, whatever that is. And the first prospect, you know, a friend of a friend
• 25:33
  here in Charlotte was like, Can you just come on a monthly, you know, retainer
• 25:36
  basis and just be part of our leadership team? And that was also like a
• 25:40
  light bulb moment where I was like, okay, that actually makes my job a lot
• 25:44
  easier. I'm not having to sell every two months a new project to you, right?
• 25:47
  I could just kind of come in, roll up my sleeves, and do the work
• 25:51
  that I enjoy doing. So but that too, I mean, I remember sitting like in
• 25:55
  the parking lot getting the text that they want to brought me in. I'm like,
• 25:58
  that's awesome. But I was like, what do I need to do next? How do
• 26:02
  I price it? What how am I going to structure this? Like, how is this
• 26:05
  going to work? Like hopefully they see that hopefully I'm able to drive the impact
• 26:09
  that I know I can like all those kind of questions come up. But you
• 26:13
  know, you just kind of that's the scrappiness side. I think you just kind of
• 26:16
  figure it out as you go. And the end of the day, I have to
• 26:20
  constantly remind myself, like, I've done this, I've I've been in these these seats before.
• 26:24
  My f the founder that I'm working with has it. That's why they're reaching out
• 26:27
  to me. and so I'm gonna guide them a lot better than any other kind
• 26:31
  of tool out there that they might, you know, tap into. And I've had founders
• 26:34
  say, you know, I could figure this out, like with the AI models out there
• 26:38
  and all of that, but like I don't wanna waste time and money. trying to
• 26:42
  figure this out. I'd rather somebody come in that knows how to do it. So
• 26:45
  that's been reassuring that I actually know what I'm doing and founders see that. But
• 26:49
  in the background, I mean, I'm sure you're the same way. You're kind of figuring
• 26:53
  it out as you go when when it comes to certain things.
• 26:56
  Absolutely. I'm I've been in business for six years and I am still very much
• 27:00
  figuring out as I go in so many different ways. when did you actually when
• 27:04
  did you kind of accept or admit to yourself or however you phrased it that
• 27:08
  you actually are the expert that they're bringing in and your voice does carry a
• 27:12
  certain weight on your expert topics? How long did that take?
• 27:16
  I I th I still think there's elements of me not fully feeling that, right?
• 27:20
  I think there's I feel a lot more confident now. And I think some of
• 27:24
  the things that validate that that confidence and like I have expert voices, I don't
• 27:28
  know, things as simple as like posting my thoughts or ideas on LinkedIn and seeing
• 27:32
  people outside of kind of my, you know, there's always you're always going to have
• 27:37
  those kind of friends and family that are liking your comments and stuff. But when
• 27:41
  you start to see other people that are also kind of experts in their field
• 27:45
  engaging on your content, you're like, okay, well, I do have something to say that's
• 27:49
  valuable and is actually aligned to how other people think or, you know, in that
• 27:54
  direction. And so that's very reassuring when people do that or people have had some
• 27:58
  recent prospects, you know, they've seen a video I've posted or something they've really enjoyed
• 28:02
  and they watch, you the whole 10-minute video. I'm like, wow, that you've spent 10
• 28:06
  minutes watching a video of me talking about a topic is there's something valuable there,
• 28:10
  right? I just I never see myself as yeah, like people will pay or like
• 28:15
  spend time on that, the stuff I have to say. But now, especially over the
• 28:19
  last year and a half, when I've been doing more and more of that. it's
• 28:23
  reassuring, like, okay, it there is some value here, right? Like they are seeing some
• 28:27
  value. I'm bringing something to the table that they haven't had before. and I think
• 28:32
  that that boosts not only my confidence, but also the confidence of like the overall
• 28:36
  business, that there is a very clear opportunity here. and it's a very big need,
• 28:40
  you know, for these for these types of businesses.
• 28:43
  I I have a very similar thought when people watch a video that I produce
• 28:46
  or something like that. I'm like, I have you heard of Netflix? Like there's a
• 28:49
  lot better things out there. Like
• 28:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:52
  I really appreciate it, but that's crazy, you just spent ten minutes on that.
• 28:55
  Yeah, I mean like I I'd much rather watch Ted Lasso. like I didn't last
• 28:58
  Right.
• 28:59
  besides, you know, watching me talk about go to market frameworks, but you know, whatever
• 29:02
  it is.
• 29:03
  Exactly. Yep. To each their own. And if it works out for us, it works
• 29:06
  out.
• 29:07
  Yeah.
• 29:08
  this is a this is a scrappy fractional thing. Do ever try and create a
• 29:11
  consortium where like all right there we're eight fractionals all in different spaces? If we
• 29:15
  all band together, we can get a really big client. Do you ever do anything
• 29:19
  like that?
• 29:20
  I have a couple of those things kind of in flight. Like I have a
• 29:24
  past colleague of mine that's a fractional CHRO. We've tried to kind of go in
• 29:28
  and combine on some stuff. I have a marketing agency out of South America that
• 29:32
  he's trying to enter the US market. So we've gone in on some deals together,
• 29:36
  kind of like I do the strategy execution. He does like the marketing side of
• 29:40
  it, like paid and all that. I think that potentially has some really good legs.
• 29:45
  I have a couple fractional CROs, like ten ninety-nines that are part of the fractional
• 29:49
  CRO team. So they're going out and building their own books of business. but then
• 29:53
  I'm also bringing business and leads into them, right? And then kind of passing those
• 29:57
  leads down to them for them to go and deliver. I honestly think that's probably
• 30:01
  the way I can grow and scale the business, right? Because like I said earlier,
• 30:06
  there's only so many hours in the day. I can't bring on 20 clients and
• 30:10
  have time with all those 20 clients to deliver what I need, but I could
• 30:14
  have other really strong fractional CROs in different spaces. but A lot of I have
• 30:18
  people reaching out to me all the time that are either trying to get into
• 30:22
  the fractional space, that are in the fractional space and just want to kind of
• 30:27
  partner. And so there's a lot of those kind of connections and conversations going on.
• 30:31
  Nothing's like fully materialized, but I've always am open to a conversation with somebody like
• 30:35
  in a parallel or similar space because you never know what's gonna happen. Like I
• 30:39
  talked to a guy out of California, I've kind of been staying in touch with
• 30:43
  him. We have a new opportunity that came in to fractional CRO. He's probably a
• 30:47
  really good fit. So it's probably something that we can team up on together. But
• 30:52
  I would have never known that if I said no to that, you know. competitor
• 30:56
  that was wanting to talk to me and have a conversation, right? So I'm I've
• 31:00
  really realized w since I've gone into my own thing, I will literally have a
• 31:04
  cup of coffee and a 30 minute conversation with anybody. because there's I feel like
• 31:08
  there's always some type of value, right? Like unless they're trying to sell me something,
• 31:13
  which sometimes annoys me, like I think a lot of founders probably, but I think
• 31:17
  if you're just building relationships and kind of understanding what each other does, helping each
• 31:21
  other out, like you never know. I think that's kind of the fuel and like
• 31:25
  all like the the key kind of pieces that ultimately come together down the road,
• 31:29
  right? Like that's how you start to build up referral networks and funnel and all
• 31:34
  of that is by having all those people kind of your eyes and ears out
• 31:38
  in the market and you the same for them. So
• 31:41
  Yeah. No, definitely agreed. I think the the fractional community is pretty strong and it's
• 31:46
  much more collaborative than competitive for the most part.
• 31:49
  Yeah, for sure.
• 31:50
  selfish data question for you. As you know, I'm a data guy. You're in charge
• 31:54
  of sales growing, I'm assuming is the main way that you continuously provide value or
• 31:59
  prove value. What are the main KPIs that you're looking at when you work with
• 32:04
  business?
• 32:05
  Yeah, so I mean there's some leading indicators for sure, of like just kind of
• 32:09
  sales activity, engagement meetings booked and stuff like that from a from a actual like
• 32:14
  once things are up and running and going, it's your typical close rates. So like
• 32:19
  what's our win rate? You know, we're bringing in X amount of leads. So we
• 32:24
  really look from a funnel of marketing qualified lead, sales qualified lead, opportunity proposal and
• 32:29
  win. So that full funnel, looking at all those all those metrics. And then I
• 32:33
  think the biggest that sometimes is overlooked is really the client experience side of it.
• 32:38
  So I really think
• 32:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:41
  of about it's a bow tie model is what I I implement with my clients
• 32:45
  so you look at the sales funnel you turn it on inside and then you
• 32:49
  look at after client acquisition the other side so it's a funnel kind of growing
• 32:54
  the other way bow tie right that piece is a huge amount of opportunity for
• 32:58
  a lot of clients right so you brought this person in they understand who you
• 33:02
  are they're obviously a customer of yours they see value how do you grow and
• 33:07
  scale that side of the business right and there's a lot of things you do
• 33:11
  on the new net new logo sale right and a lot of the clients I
• 33:15
  work with are in B2B that you can implement on the client side. So, how
• 33:20
  do you grow? How do you bring more lifetime value out of those customers? How
• 33:24
  do you add additional services, solutions, get referrals to go back into your, you know,
• 33:29
  net new side of the business? so that is a huge, like the lifetime value
• 33:33
  piece of existing customers and also retention, right? Because I have some customers where I
• 33:37
  mean, we can do everything we want from like the net new logo side of
• 33:42
  the bow tie. but you know, I call it the leaky bucket, right? Like you're
• 33:46
  putting in water and it's just falling on the other side, you're just constantly two
• 33:50
  steps forward, one step back, and you're just never gaining any traction, right? From a
• 33:55
  pipeline perspective and revenue perspective. So I would say those those typical kinds of sales
• 33:59
  and marketing you know, qualify leads all the way to opportunity and like the the
• 34:04
  conversions amongst that. And then most importantly, which is typically a blind space. But a
• 34:08
  lot of times is when a customer comes in, then how do you grow that
• 34:12
  customer? What's the value of that customer for the long term?
• 34:16
  Yeah. Yeah, it's much easier to sell to an existing client than go find a
• 34:20
  new one.
• 34:21
  Hundred percent, yeah. And but a lot of sales is focused on bringing in the
• 34:24
  new clients, right? Because that's the what the that's the chase. That's like the big
• 34:28
  game hunter, right? Like that's they want to go after that, which is fun and
• 34:32
  good and it does bring in revenue, but if you don't have that other side
• 34:36
  of the business buttoned up, you're gonna do a lot of work for a little
• 34:40
  return.
• 34:41
  And hence the leaky bucket. I like it. All right, let me hit you with
• 34:44
  some scrappy or sophisticated lightning round stuff.
• 34:46
  Okay.
• 34:47
  all right. Have you ever had to play the credit card timing game where you
• 34:50
  wait till tomorrow to charge something? 'Cause that's next month's statement. Yeah.
• 34:53
  Hundred percent, yeah. Yeah.
• 34:57
  Your expression was like, Yep, obviously. Moving on. any early clients that you regret, obviously
• 35:01
  you don't have to name them, but anything that you lost money on, maybe.
• 35:06
  there's definitely a couple of clients that, you know, everybody has those clients that didn't
• 35:10
  pay or just kind of, you know, didn't didn't agree, you know, agreed to the
• 35:14
  terms but then didn't, you know, follow the terms that you agreed on. So yeah,
• 35:19
  there's definitely some, but that helps me grow and realize who my ideal customer is,
• 35:23
  right? And who I should be working with.
• 35:26
  There you go. There you go. Yep. That's the positive spin. I like it. any
• 35:31
  was your initial I ICP or ideal client, was that right, or have you had
• 35:36
  to evolve it?
• 35:38
  My ICP was everybody. Like it's so it was actually everything that I I teach
• 35:41
  people not to do, right? More established
• 35:43
  Yeah.
• 35:44
  businesses is as a solar entrepreneur, right, at the beginning, it was just like anybody
• 35:47
  and everybody. now I've really refined that much more to like my sweet spot, which
• 35:51
  is the professional services space. Now I do have some customers outside of that, but
• 35:55
  that is really where I'm honing in on and I think that is definitely the
• 35:59
  right ICP for me. Now say in the other CROs in my space, you know,
• 36:03
  they have their different ICPs and that's why I brought them onto the team. So
• 36:08
  There you go. Okay. How do you feel about websites that are dot net?
• 36:13
  I mean, it's like people that have Yahoo email addresses.
• 36:19
  Very much agreed. do you ever do any barter agreements with other consultants or anything
• 36:26
  like that?
• 36:27
  I haven't they've I've gotten approached by some and I just I don't know, I
• 36:31
  don't really my time's too valuable, I don't really feel like dealing with that.
• 36:35
  Definitely, definitely agreed. Okay. all right. Within the home, ever ever use two previously used
• 36:42
  dryer sheets instead of one new dryer sheet.
• 36:46
  For sure. I'm sure I've done that.
• 36:49
  Okay, as a kid, any garage sales or yard sales where you were haggling with
• 36:54
  customers?
• 36:55
  Yeah, I mean, like I said earlier, lemonade, garage sales, like all of the above.
• 36:59
  you know, overpriced and then somewhere meat in the middle kind of thing. A lot
• 37:04
  of the garage sales are just you know, selling a bunch of my brother's crap
• 37:08
  and trying to make money off of it.
• 37:11
  Did your brothers know it was being sold?
• 37:14
  maybe not. But once I got older it was hard to realize for sure.
• 37:18
  Fair. Okay. any hot commodity as a kid that you had that immediate I'm gonna
• 37:24
  go buy that gold with?
• 37:27
  we grew up in like a cul-de-sac in Virginia that was huge into just all
• 37:32
  sports street hockey. So like when the new Nike rollerblades came out, it was like
• 37:37
  the hot commodity that everybody needed for Christmas. So I remember Christmas morning we all
• 37:42
  kind of got them. I I my dad, like I said, was a police officer.
• 37:47
  I got like the the you know, ones where you still had your sneakers tied
• 37:52
  into your like your roller blades where you strapped,
• 37:55
  Yeah.
• 37:56
  kept your sneaker on and they were kind of the blocky. So that was my
• 38:00
  original pair and then I had some friends that had the nicer pairs, but I
• 38:04
  eventually got up to those Nike like legit hockey inline skates. that was a huge
• 38:08
  Christmas eventually. So
• 38:09
  Nice. Okay. Did you ever do Heelys back in the day?
• 38:13
  You mean like the trick Healy's?
• 38:15
  The like that it was a shoe with a wheel in the back. You ever
• 38:20
  have those?
• 38:21
  I thought you meant like Heelys like rollerblade like moves or something. No, I never
• 38:25
  had Heelys, no, I never had this.
• 38:27
  Me neither. I I wanted but I never had all right, take me in
• 38:30
  I didn't have the light up shoes that were my my boys have asked me
• 38:32
  because light up shoes are still a thing apparently. If I had light up
• 38:35
  No way.
• 38:36
  shoes I had the light up shoes. But they said that those are like for
• 38:38
  really little kids now. They're like too cool for but they I thought they were
• 38:40
  pretty cool back in the day. Yes, they are, yeah.
• 38:42
  they're too cool now. Yeah, still are, some would say. all right, take me inside
• 38:47
  the office. How many monitors are on the desk that you use?
• 38:52
  I have two monitors and I have a client laptop like a client specific laptop
• 38:56
  that I've gotten from one client. So I have three monitors I guess, but typically
• 39:00
  working off two.
• 39:01
  Okay. Are those two monitors the same make and model? Nice, there we go. any
• 39:07
  business cards currently on the desk?
• 39:10
  No, I I don't I don't know. And I have clients too that sp we
• 39:14
  just spent thirty minutes talking to the marketing team of one of my clients about
• 39:18
  business card design. I'm like, why why are we still doing that? Doesn't make sense
• 39:22
  to me.
• 39:23
  It's so true in today's world. all right, anything really unique in the office? Any
• 39:27
  trinkets, any awards, anything like that that's really unique?
• 39:30
  yeah, I have some you Talked about Charlotte FC. have some Charlotte F C bobbleheads.
• 39:34
  so I we we go typically like two hours early before kickoff to be first
• 39:39
  in line to get our bobblehead. So I have a Tim Reem bobblehead and I
• 39:44
  have a Ashley Westwood bobblehead, and then coming up, they're gonna have a Christian Kalina
• 39:48
  bobblehead night. So we're gonna be there early. I have spent some time over in
• 39:53
  Europe. We lived in Europe for three years, so I have some different like trinkets
• 39:58
  like from my trips across Asia and Europe that kind of clutter the desk. Yeah.
• 40:03
  Okay. All right. I mean that's a that's a tapestry going on there. I like
• 40:06
  it.
• 40:07
  Yeah. Yeah. I have a I have a little cat waving at me now. So
• 40:10
  yeah.
• 40:11
  The classic one, yep.
• 40:13
  Singapore. Yep.
• 40:15
  Very nice. Okay. how many emails unread is too many.
• 40:22
  I that is kind of my like mental to do list. Like, so I I'm
• 40:26
  always clearing out my emails. I I went through some updates on my iPhone and
• 40:31
  for some reason it was pulling up all my old Gmail things and it drove
• 40:35
  me crazy. Every time I looked at my phone I had like two thousand, three
• 40:40
  thousand, five thousand emails. and it it like just it it it crushed me mentally.
• 40:45
  but now I got it fixed, so it's good. Like I typically zero emails in
• 40:49
  my inbox on red.
• 40:51
  Okay. Okay. Zero unread. Okay. Is there a total list that are in there, even
• 40:56
  though they are red?
• 40:58
  I come I mean I I've much more of a reader, either delete it if
• 41:02
  I'm not gonna need it or put it in a folder. So I have like
• 41:06
  all my client folders or different kind of key folders and file it away. so
• 41:11
  in my actual inbox right now for work I have eight emails. Yeah.
• 41:15
  Okay, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. ever gotten a review from a family member?
• 41:22
  a family member. No. No. I have I have though back in the day for
• 41:27
  a job, I'm pretty sure I asked like a family friend for a reference check.
• 41:33
  so that was yeah, I guess some somewhat similar. Yeah.
• 41:37
  That checks the box. That's crappy enough. all right, last one. Back of Virginia Tech
• 41:43
  at Duck Ponds. Did you ever see the rare albino duck?
• 41:48
  I mean if I did, I was probably too hungover or drunk like I remember
• 41:50
  it.
• 41:51
  Yeah.
• 41:53
  We did a lot of there was a five K sorority did a five K
• 41:57
  charity thing and I just remember going and running that around the duck pond and
• 42:02
  around kind of frat lap. I mean probably we were out till three o'clock the
• 42:07
  morning the night before and so I'm sure I saw it, but I don't remember.
• 42:12
  I love it. That's perfect. I could say more scrappy than sophisticated, but definitely have
• 42:16
  dashes of both going on, Matt. I love it. Yeah.
• 42:20
  Yeah. Well for that analysis. Appreciate it.
• 42:23
  It's completely data driven, I promise. awesome, man. What's coming up for you? Anything you
• 42:28
  want the folks out there to know? Anything you want to promote?
• 42:32
  no, I mean take take a look at my website, fractional CRO dot org. I
• 42:35
  am in the process of writing a book, so I'm very scrappy on that. hopefully
• 42:39
  the goal, right? I have it up on my clipboard behind my desk is to
• 42:43
  have it launched in November. So just yeah, be on the lookout. I would love
• 42:47
  to get it out there and get it up and you know, out on Amazon
• 42:51
  before before the holidays. I don't know if it people are gonna read it, but
• 42:55
  going back to what we said earlier, maybe people actually will spend the whatever I
• 42:59
  end up pricing it at, probably below $20, people will pay for it and and
• 43:03
  use it. So hopefully, but I have it written. my wife is is a past
• 43:07
  English high school teacher, so she edited it for me. So talking about Scrappy, I
• 43:11
  didn't go to a professional editor. She edited it a couple of nights
• 43:15
  Love it.
• 43:17
  instead. and so I have it ready to go. I just need to pop it
• 43:20
  on and and get it going. So but yeah, be on the lookout
• 43:23
  Nice.
• 43:24
  for that.
• 43:25
  And what what is it about?
• 43:27
  it is about moving from hustle to engine is the title of the book. So
• 43:30
  it's the idea
• 43:31
  Ooh.
• 43:32
  of founders really hustling and building their business and you know, all the stuff that
• 43:36
  we talked about today and what I hear from founders all the time of just
• 43:40
  kind of growing their business like scrappiness, right? Like you're like we're talking about. But
• 43:45
  then building that into a repeatable, scalable engine and how do you go about that.
• 43:49
  So
• 43:50
  Sounds like the perfect book for this audience. I love it.
• 43:53
  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And if you I have a sub stack actually that's set
• 43:57
  up. It's called From Hustle the Engine. So the same title sub stack where I
• 44:02
  post videos you know, where people actually do watch and do sign up for it
• 44:07
  looks like. but I have like a monthly subscription and a yearly subscription. that you
• 44:11
  can go on there and you get kind of every two weeks a new video
• 44:16
  talking about something go to market framework, the customer journey, living the brand, like all
• 44:21
  these kind of concepts and frameworks that I I work with founders on in their
• 44:25
  businesses, you can get, you know, as a master class video for myself.
• 44:30
  Nice. Okay. Yeah. Send us that link. We'll include it in here.
• 44:34
  Okay.
• 44:36
  Yeah, no, this is great, Matt. very much appreciate. We'll include the link and I
• 44:40
  can't say a hundred percent scrappy. We're gonna go eighty percent scrappy, twenty percent sophisticated.
• 44:45
  Okay, cool. I'll take it. I'll take it.
• 44:48
  Awesome, man. Thanks so much for coming on, Matt, and stay data driven everybody.
• 44:50
  Yeah. Thanks, Jack.