Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Newborn Girl Found Stuffed in Wally World Trash Dumpster

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Newborn Girl Found Stuffed in Wally World Trash Dumpster · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: A newborn baby girl found dumped.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Literally in a dumpster behind a Wally World Mini marked.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Of course, the baby is dead.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: You know how many people would pay tens of thousands
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of dollars to have a baby to love. But no,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: let's just throw the baby in a dumpster to die
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: in a dumpster.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a shrink, but even I know.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: The meaning behind putting your child in trash. It's almost
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: more than I can take in. I mean, see, Grace,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: here at Crime Stories and on Serious xem one eleven.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: It is reminiscent of another case I recently covered. Listen,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: hello name one.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we just found the beating in the tracks
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: behind uh uh?
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: What is damn intent street?
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: The hob where?
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: Hey, gretfully?
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: Where we are.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Them all.
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: Behind set?
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: We're behind Hoggs. Mall. Okay, I'm showing you just un god, yes, ma'am, okay.
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: Them all behind them all?
• 2:00
  Speaker 7: Okay?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Is it clothes broken up?
• 2:07
  Speaker 8: Is it?
• 2:08
  Speaker 9: Does the baby have any clothes on?
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: It is making noise?
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Okay, do you have a blink? Here here's good boy
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: and he is still alive. I believe he lurks pretty good.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: That baby lived, That little baby boy lived, and one
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: day he's going to be told that he was so
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: hated as a newborn, so unloved, the only thing anybody
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: could think to do is just throw him away in
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the trash. He's going to know that inside the rest
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: of his life. This baby girl doesn't even have that opportunity.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: She died.
• 2:47
  Speaker 8: Listen Indicator, Alabama, a newborn baby has been found in
• 2:50
  Speaker 8: a dumpster behind the wally World Mini mark. Police investigation
• 2:54
  Speaker 8: began with a tip called into police about possible human
• 2:58
  Speaker 8: remains in a dumpster. Decatered Police found the newborn baby
• 3:01
  Speaker 8: dead inside a bag in the bottom of the dumpster.
• 3:04
  Speaker 8: The body has been sent for autopsy determined the cause
• 3:07
  Speaker 8: of death. No arrest have been made.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: This was at Point Mallard Drive at nine o'clock in
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the morning. Joining me an all star panel makes sense
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But first I want
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: you to listen to more about what we know about
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the location where the baby was dumped.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Take listen to our friend.
• 3:30
  Speaker 8: Dave mac wtvy is reporting that a baby was found
• 3:33
  Speaker 8: in a dumpster behind a convenience store into cater Alabama.
• 3:37
  Speaker 8: One employee of the store, Carry Hall, was shocked to
• 3:40
  Speaker 8: realize a baby had been thrown in the dumpster. Hall
• 3:43
  Speaker 8: is quoted as saying, consider that site, it's probably somebody
• 3:47
  Speaker 8: in the neighborhood, probably somebody close to just throw their
• 3:50
  Speaker 8: baby away and not care. Unquote. Police have not made
• 3:54
  Speaker 8: an arrest yet again.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel makes sense of what
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: we know right now, but straight out to crimeonline dot
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: com to get a reporter, Nicole Parton, I wanted to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: start with the narrow line of questioning regarding the discovery
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of the baby.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Who, what, where and why explained.
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: So the local police department there received a tip that
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: they should check this dumpster behind this gas station, this
• 4:21
  Speaker 6: Wally World market. They went out and they dug through
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: the trash beneath the large trash bags that the convenience
• 4:30
  Speaker 6: store had put out from their pails of trash every
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: evening by the gas pump. They found a smaller white
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: trash bag, and in that trash bag they found this
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: beautiful baby girl, who unfortunately was already deceased.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Wally World, my understanding is kind of like Six Flags
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: or a Disney knockoff. I mean, it's a fun place,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: and this was a wally World mini mart. Explained that
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: to me, Nicole Parton.
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just a name that they used. It's actually
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: just a gas gas station. It's just a convenience store
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: there in kind of a rural area. Decatur has about
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: fifty thousand people who live there. This particular gas station
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: at Point Miller Drive is Point Mallard Drive is in
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  Speaker 6: a rural area. It's kind of where you go get
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: your cup of coffee in the morning. And you know
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  Speaker 6: the guy that you see in front of you because
• 5:19
  Speaker 6: you see him there every day. So this community is
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: shocked to think that someone in their area has placed
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  Speaker 6: the baby girl outside in the dumpsters.
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  Speaker 1: Wallyworld was a name used later in a National Lampoon movie,
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  Speaker 1: and it was based on a short story named Vacation
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  Speaker 1: fifty eight where the stars of the story were trying
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  Speaker 1: to make a trek to an amusement park. So the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: irony behind the name of this Wallyworld Mini mark. You
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: think about children having fun and being with their families,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and now you're at a wally World mini mart and
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  Speaker 1: behind it in the trash in a dumpster, left to
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: die or already did, is a beautiful baby girl.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Now you are hearing and I'm one call earlier regarding the.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Case of Alexis Villa, and I'm always stunned that this
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't end. It goes on and on and on. Baby's
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: thrown in dumpsters like their trash. I mean, I need
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a shrink.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Doctor. Angela Arnold is joining me.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: We're now a psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Angela,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. You'll have to explain to me,
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  Speaker 1: not the symbolism, but the psychopathy behind putting your baby
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  Speaker 1: in a you know.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: What a dumpster?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, because you've never looked for evidence
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: in a dumpster as I have. It was a dumpster
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  Speaker 1: behind a restaurant and it smelled to high heaven. I
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  Speaker 1: can't imagine putting a baby in there with the flies
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  Speaker 1: and those big green flies that bite, and maggots.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: And worms and rotting.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Food and everything out of the bathroom, the bathroom trash,
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  Speaker 1: and you put the baby in there.
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, I believe that that speaks more to an
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: act of desperation by someone who is either not attached
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: to the baby through the pregnancy and or scared to
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: death of what this means for their life. So they've
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: not formed an attachment to this baby that has been
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: growing inside of them for nine months that they've probably
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: they've probably tried to hide this pregnancy for the whole time.
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: So instead of becoming joyous over bringing a baby into
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: the world, these people are scared and they do not
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: know what alternatives they have.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: James shell Nut is joining me renowned lawyer with the
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: shell Nut Firm, and what I like about him is
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: he did twenty seven years in Metro major case. He's
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: also a detective, former swat, former judge, former municipal prosecutor,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: and you can find him now shell Nut Law Firm
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: dot com. James, Doctor Angie Arnold sounds suspiciously close to
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: defending the mother that we believe put this baby dead
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: in the dumpster, or put the baby in the dumpster
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: to die with all the bathroom trash and the refuse
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and the rotting food and the flies and the larva.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, seemingly is defending the mother.
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: Oh, I agree, and nothing against doctor Anne Jarnal. I'm
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: a general fan, but I will tell you I adamantly
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: disagree with this.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I was a fan until about two minutes ago.
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  Speaker 5: Go ahead, well, I will.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Tell you why.
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: You know, if you look at just the mere fact
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: of where this child was discarded, like you said a
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: minute ago, like a piece of trash. This child wasn't
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: placed somewhere on a doorstep. It wasn't dropped off at
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: some hospital, it wasn't dropped off at some family home.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: It was thrown where you would throw trash that you
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: never want to see again and never remember again. And
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: to me as a detective, that looks like a person
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  Speaker 5: who is selfish, who is self absorbed, and has no
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: concern whatsoever for the human life of this innocent child.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And you know another thing. I'm not saying abortion is
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: right or wrong, but if you don't want a baby,
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  Speaker 1: why do you wait until you give birth and then
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: you kill the baby.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I don't understand that thinking.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: And also shell nutt there are safe haven spots all
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: over the country where you can take the baby. You
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: can take the baby to hospitals, to law enforcement, to family,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: you know, But to kill the baby, that's murder of
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: a defenseless infant, the tiniest, the most helpless in our societies.
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  Speaker 2: That is murder shall Nut.
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know it's concerning, and you know, I don't
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  Speaker 5: know what the excuse will be as far as to
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  Speaker 5: why this person did this.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord in heaven, are you asking me to
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: prove motive? Do I need to prove motive?
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Why does anybody do anything? Why does Scott Peterson kill
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Lacey because he.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Wanted to be free? He want to be married anymore?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: What does anybody do anything?
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: Well, I will tell you. You know, in Alabama, which
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: is where this happened at, Alabama has some interesting laws.
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  Speaker 5: One of the laws Alabama has is a chemical endangerment
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: that causes the death of a child. Now, I don't
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: know what the autops you will show with.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: So basically you're lit your ear, flapping your wings into
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a flight of fancy because you have no idea whether
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: there was any drugs or alcohol involved. And ps voluntary
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: use when drugs are alcohol is not a defense.
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: Oh, I agree with you. My point, just trying to
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: save their own She could be trying to save her
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  Speaker 5: own skin because at some point this child is going
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: to be zerologically tested. This child is going to be
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: looked at for any signs of physical abuse, and under
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: Alabama law, if there is any type of controlled substance
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: in this baby system, then now this turns into a
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  Speaker 5: Class A felony for the death of this child.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greace. Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: not just a medical examiner, but chief medical examiner. You
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: know how hard it is to become chief medical examiner.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: You can't have a single complaint from any of your
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: clients ever. Oops, sorry, you don't have any clients that
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: can speak. You're the medical examiner, they're all already dead.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner, Charrant County fort Worth. But joking aside,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: you have to climb up the ladder perform thousands and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: thousands of autopsies to become the chief medical Examiner and
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Trant County Lecturer University Texas Austin and Texas Christian University
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Medical School.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So I defer to you, doctor Kendall, how go ahead.
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  Speaker 4: The discussion of whether the mom is using a chemical
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: or something like that. If she placed a breathing baby
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: into a trash bag, that's a six year So I
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  Speaker 4: think that you're dealing with a homicide. Not only have
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: you placed a kid in a trash bag where they
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: cannot breathe, but then jettison them into a trash can.
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  Speaker 4: So I'm unsure of why there be even a question
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: of whether the mom was intoxicated or not.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, before I get off into whether the mom had
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a cocktail before the baby was thrown in the dumpster.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Joining us right now, a very special guest from National
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Programs for Child Help at Childhelp dot org and child
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Help Hotline dot org. They are an establishment that I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: really believe in. They truly care about children. When you
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: donate to them, your money is going to help children,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: not to the president and the vice president and the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: vice vice president. It goes to help children. Childhelp dot Org.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Michelle Fingerman with us. Michelle, when will it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: End when we quit finding babies in dumpsters?
• 14:20
  Speaker 9: We talk about it all the time, Nancy. I mean,
• 14:22
  Speaker 9: we hear this time and time again, and we're devastated
• 14:25
  Speaker 9: each and every time another innocent life lost. So we
• 14:30
  Speaker 9: talk a lot about how can we prevent this from happening?
• 14:35
  Speaker 9: What resources? There's no defending the action. There's a baby
• 14:39
  Speaker 9: that's dead now because of these actions, but what can
• 14:42
  Speaker 9: we look at to prevent these from occurring in the future.
• 14:48
  Speaker 9: And that's part of the role that we play here
• 14:50
  Speaker 9: on the hotline is talking to people that may be
• 14:53
  Speaker 9: in crisis, talking to family members when they have concern
• 14:59
  Speaker 9: about somebody, what options do they have so we can
• 15:03
  Speaker 9: intervene before something.
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: Like this happened.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking back on John David and Lucy, who
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: believe it or not, are about to turn sixteen. It's
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: been the best sixteen years of my life. They were
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: extremely premature. They were both in the nick Neo Natal
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: intensive care unit for weeks. Lucy was born at two
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: pounds two pounds, too smaller than a kitten. And that
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: little thing lying in the incubator at the hospital would
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: hold up a one arm in the power sign and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: she would lay there like that. And oh, of course
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: they were both in incubators. We would sing to them,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: we would stand there, we would watch them. They had
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: so many tubes going in and out of their bodies,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and they were so fragile. And I'm thinking about this
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: little baby in a ster covered in trash, either dead
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: when she's thrown in there, or dying there not understanding
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: what was happening around her. Nobody holding her, nobody loving her,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: nobody feeding her.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Or short little time on earth. Just awful and I'm
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out too, doctor Kendall Crowns.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: How do you look at a baby and determine its age?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: How many days, how many weeks, how many hours old?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: It is?
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: So there's actually a number of measurements that have been
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: put together over time. One of them is foot length.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: You can use a foot length to determine the gestational
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: age of the baby and get pretty accurate from.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: It foot length. What else?
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: I believe hand length is another one, and then overall
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: length of a baby, although that one isn't as as
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: specific as to foot length.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Of Doctor Kendall Crowns. Do you have children?
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: I do.
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: I have five children.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Well, you do remember what they looked like when they
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: were first born, don't you?
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so do you remember what they looked like a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: month later when they started to get a little baby
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: fat on them and they were rounding out and they're
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: no longer.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: That pinkish reddish color.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: When they're born and they're starting to get hair and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: their eyes are focusing, their eyes look different.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: When they're first born.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: You can tell they can't really see, they're looking around,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: they can't really see. But in a week or two
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: you can tell the eyes are focusing. The eyes actually
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: physically look different. Would you agree with all of that?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: But you're telling me the only way that you are
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: renowned physician with thousands of autopsies under your belt, lecturer
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: at two fantastic universities. The only way I can tell
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: how old a baby is by the foot, in the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: hand length.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: And overall length with the body.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, they look different, doctor, I mean I'm a jade
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: he not an empty But I know a newborn baby
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: from a baby a week old or six months old.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: You can look at.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Them and tell sure, are we talking about gestational age
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: once you've been born and then you've aged over time,
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: or are you talking about a child that has died
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: in utero and has come into the office.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Now, baby in the dumpster?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: That baby? Why would I be talking about a baby
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: in utero? That's not even a topic today.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Often with these dumpster babies, they are born prematurely and
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: die at the time of birth, so you have to
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: get an idea of what gestational age they were at
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: to move forward with a determining cause of manner.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I know what you're doing. Doctor.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: You're using all of your fancy medical jargon on me
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: because you know I don't understand it.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: No, No, that's not my goal.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Isn't it true?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: You can look at a baby and tell if it's neborn,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: just born, or three weeks.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: Old newborn just born or three weeks so newborn and
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: just born would to me be the same. Yes, you
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: can tell that they're or had a survival time period.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, And that, James Shell not is why you never
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: put a doctor on the stand unless you really have to,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: because they will out thank you if you ask them
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: any medical question, just you know, forget about it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Would you agree with that unless you really have to? Oh?
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: I think you say within your specialty for sure. When
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: you don't what, you get exposed.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've been exposed as I'm not an obgyn.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: There I said it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, I want to get back to this baby and
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: what the h E double L happened. But I'm just
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: thinking about what we just talked about to doctor Angel Arnold.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out which one is really worse.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: To leave your baby to die in a dumpster just
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: after you've had the baby just given birth, or you
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: have it around for two or three weeks and you
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: take care the baby. And I assume you would get
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: attached to the baby and then throw it out. They're
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: both horrible or Oh, are you going to defend the
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: perfect again?
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: No, I'm not. But you know, Nancy, when you talk
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: about and I do believe it's worse to keep the
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: baby around for a couple of weeks and then kill it.
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: But I also think it might be two different disease processes.
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: So the first one when you get rid of a
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: baby when it's just been born and it comes out
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: of you, I do believe that it has to do
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: with number one, a lack of attachment and number two,
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: some sort of feeling that that there's that there's trouble
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: and she's not going to be able to take care
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: of the baby two to three weeks later. If a
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: baby is disposed of, that has more to do with
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: some sort of post partum depression episode.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Depression is not a defense.
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: But okay, but I'm just telling you as a doctor,
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: as a psychiatrist who practices, who takes care of these
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: women all the time, there is a difference.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I'm depressed. Can I just go ahead and see Jackie
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: right now?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: No?
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: No, And Nancy, I don't believe you're depressed, Okay, but
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: when you take care of people who truly are depressed, Nancy,
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: it is they can't see their way out of it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: You can't you can't shake them out of it. They
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: literally can't see their way out of it. Okay, So, yes,
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: there is a difference in getting rid of a baby
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: at those two different times in the babies in the
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: baby's life.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, You're not the only baby specialist
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: on today, because we've got Nicole Parton, who is mother
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: of ten, yes, one, zero, ten, and she did it willingly.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: It's not like I accidentally got pregnant. She adopted many
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: of these children, and many of them have learning disabilities
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: and all sorts of issues they're trying to overcome. So,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Nicole Parton, I can't say enough what a hero you
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: are to so many. But you have taken in children
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and adopted them that have been abandoned by as their parents.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: How has that affected them?
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: Absolutely? I can speak firsthand. I'm raising four beautiful little
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: girls who were abandoned by their mothers, and even after
• 22:26
  Speaker 6: being in a loving home where I adore them, I
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: have a daughter who's been with me for seven years now,
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: and she still is traumatized remembering the day that her
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: biological mom left her to die. And she's still on
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: days when she's feeling less than or having a hard day,
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: will say, Mamma, you're not going to leave me, are you.
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: You're not just going to give me away? Are you?
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: Even after therapy, even after seven years of love in
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: a stable home, these children suffer tremendously knowing that the
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: mother who burst them, the person who's supposed to protect them,
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: just threw them away, or set them aside, or left
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: them to die. It's tragic and even though we do
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: everything we can to help them overcome, it is a
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: struggle that they deal with sadly. Sadly, these biological parents
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: who do this, I don't even know if they have
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: any clue what they're doing to their children.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: So who is the perp who did this?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And not just throwing the baby into the trash, but
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: stuck quote according to the cops, stuffed in the bottom
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: of the dumpster under several other large bags of trash.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut six from Crime Online.
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: Police Indicator Alabama. We're contacted about doing a well being
• 23:52
  Speaker 8: check on thirty six year old Cindy Crow. According to WAFF,
• 23:57
  Speaker 8: a family member believe Sidney Crow was a month's pregnant,
• 24:00
  Speaker 8: but when she saw her, it looked like she had
• 24:02
  Speaker 8: lost a lot of weight overnight. Her sister believed she'd
• 24:06
  Speaker 8: given birth and was concerned about where the baby was
• 24:09
  Speaker 8: before calling police to check on her sister. The family
• 24:12
  Speaker 8: member said that as Cindy was leaving her home, she
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: noticed a large white trash bag in the back floor
• 24:18
  Speaker 8: of warrior of the car she was driving. When the
• 24:20
  Speaker 8: family member tried to look in the bag, Crow refused
• 24:22
  Speaker 8: to let her. Crow then left headed to their ant's house.
• 24:26
  Speaker 8: While Crow was gone, her sister looked into some other
• 24:28
  Speaker 8: trash in the house and found bloody feminine products. When
• 24:31
  Speaker 8: she arrived at her ant's house, she noticed the trash
• 24:34
  Speaker 8: bag was no longer in the car.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, that is a lot of information from crimeonline dot com.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: The family noticed that suddenly, this woman, Cindy Nicole Crow,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: had lost a lot of weight, disturbing amount of weight. Then,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: when asked to look in a white trash bag in
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: the back floorboard of her car, she wouldn't let her.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: There are some real indicators right there, but there's more listen.
• 25:03
  Speaker 8: Police followed up by contacting Cindy Crow at her job.
• 25:07
  Speaker 8: They were able to convince Crow to go to the
• 25:08
  Speaker 8: hospital and prove that she was not pregnant. WAFF forty
• 25:12
  Speaker 8: eight reports. While waiting for the test results, Crowe gave
• 25:16
  Speaker 8: an officer consent to search her cell phone. A Decator
• 25:19
  Speaker 8: detective found that Crowe had Life three point sixty on
• 25:22
  Speaker 8: her phone. That app allowed the detective to trace the
• 25:25
  Speaker 8: route Sidney Crow took when she left her home on
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: Monday to go to her aunt's house.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Joining me right now. IRV.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Brandt, Senior Inspector, US Marshall Service, International Investigations Branch, Chief
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Inspector DOJ Department of Justice, Office of International Affairs. Author
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: of multiple books, including Solo Shot, Curse to the Bluestone,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Flying Solo, Top of the World on Amazon and inspired
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: by all of his trips around the world investigating cases
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and tracking down fugitives.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: IRV.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Brandt, that's a lot of police work that is actually
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: gone into this case. And it all started herb with
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: family members asking for a welfare check on a relative
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that had lost a ton of weight.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: A ton of.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Weight, and I don't mean over a period of months,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: so if they're on a zipic or something or we gov,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: but a drastic amount of weight just gone.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Then they get.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Suspicious of a white trash bag in the back of
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: their car. I'm suspicious about them being suspicious. If I
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: see a white trash bag in somebody's car, I don't
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: really think anything about it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I certainly don't want to look into it.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: So something must have made them very suspicious about that
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: trash bag or Brant.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I agree, Nancy. And from the way the facts that
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: we know about the case right now, it appears that
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: these family members suspected this all along. That's why they
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: called the police. And when the police started to investigate,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: and probably in the initial interviews of her, you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: decided that there was something very very wrong.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yes she's lying that.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly that she's lying. Then when they got consent
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: to go into her phone, that investigator was looking for
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: something very specific and what.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Would that be, or Brandt looking for what her movements
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: explain how LI three sixty works.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: The app I love it.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: By the way, parents love to use it, put it
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: in their children's funds. There's a lot of different uses
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: for these apps. And that police officer, that investigator had
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: something specific in mind to track her movements if they
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: possibly thought that this maybe had been disposed of in
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: another location, which ultimately it turned out that it was.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Now doctor Angela Arnold joining me or an own psychiatrist
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Now, remember, to be a psychiatrist,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: you have to get.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Your medical degree and then you go on after that.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So we're talking let's say four years of undergrad three
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: or four years in medical school, and then more then
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you get your specialty in psychiatry. Now, doctor Angela Arnold
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: tried to tune up earlier about this poor young maybe
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: a teen girl that had gotten rid of her baby
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: because she didn't know what to do.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, bs, the woman's thirty six years old. I think
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: she knows what's happening.
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: Doctor Angie, I completely completely agree with you. So it's
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: a completely different story. And why was she hiding the
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: pregnancy from her family? My other question is, which I imagine
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: many of your viewers have also, is was she denying
• 28:43
  Speaker 6: help from the family. Did the family try to help
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: her through this or were they all just sitting back
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: from afar going I think she's pregnant, but nobody was
• 28:53
  Speaker 6: helping her, because that could have been the case also,
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: or was she denying help from her family? And by
• 28:59
  Speaker 6: the way, that baby didn't get there on its own.
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: Where was the father in all of us?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yes? Where is the father in all of this?
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: And remember at the hospital she took that pregnancy test
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to take a listen to our friend.
• 29:15
  Speaker 8: Dave max WAFFTV reports the test results for Crow came
• 29:19
  Speaker 8: back positive for pregnancy. Staff at the hospital said Crow
• 29:23
  Speaker 8: was seen at the hospital in February twenty twenty three
• 29:25
  Speaker 8: and she was six weeks pregnant at that time, her
• 29:28
  Speaker 8: due date October thirteenth. With this information, Crow agreed to
• 29:32
  Speaker 8: go back to the Decatured police department, where she was
• 29:35
  Speaker 8: interviewed by the detective. Crow told the detective that she
• 29:39
  Speaker 8: was at the hospital in February and she was pregnant
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: at that time. Crow then told the detective that she
• 29:44
  Speaker 8: had a miscarriage not long after the hospital visit.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, I almost said wow on one of the cops
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: felt bad about, you know, aggressively questioning a woman that
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: apparently had just given birth and chose to throw her
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: baby in the trash.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: What was going on in her mind?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: But wait a minute, she has the wherewithal to lie.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: She's lying, Oh, yeah, I had a miscarriage a while back.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Because help me out, doctor Crown's and doctor Arnold. Why
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: would you still be testing positive for pregnancy if you
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: had the miscarriage a couple of months before, I.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: Don't know, if a couple of months, if you had
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: the baby a couple months before, if you would still
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: be hilling the hormones that would give a positive pregnancy test.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: February twenty twenty three. She said she had a miscarriage
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: shortly after the hospital visit in feb twenty twenty three.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Those are months months before. Why would you still have
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: pregnancy hormones.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: It wouldn't make sense that the pregnancy hormones would be
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: still be there months later that I can't give you
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: good explanation for.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: So that's a lie.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: I would think it would be.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: That she still had pregnancy hormones and her miscarriage, according
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: to her, had been seven to eight months before.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, but then we learn more. Listen.
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: Cindy Crow agreed to speak to the detective and was
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: taken to the Decatur Police Department. Way and thirty one
• 31:10
  Speaker 8: reports that during the interview, Crow confirmed the hospital February
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: twenty twenty three, hospital visit and that she was pregnant
• 31:16
  Speaker 8: at that time. She claims that she had a miscarriage
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: shortly thereafter. She then admitted that she did have a
• 31:22
  Speaker 8: white trash bag, but claimed that it contained trash from
• 31:25
  Speaker 8: the car she was driving. When the detective asked where
• 31:28
  Speaker 8: the trash bag was, Crow provided multiple locations that were
• 31:32
  Speaker 8: all determined to be false.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Oh what a tangled web we weave when first reepracticed
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: to deceive. Didn't anybody learn anything from Watergate? The cover
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: up was much worse than the crime. For Pete's sake,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: here we're We've got a horrible crime and now a
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: cover up lying about it. All the locations she gives
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: about the trash bag are false, her fake miscarriage is false.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Everything is false, and she has the wherewithal to lie.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: In other words, she's not insane, She's not having.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: A break from reality. She knows enough to lie and
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: lie very well. Crime stories with Nancy Grace to doctor
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, how can you tell when you look at
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: a baby if the baby was still born or if
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the baby lived and was then killed.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: So one of the things you can do is what
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: we call the float test, where you take the lungs
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: from the baby and placed them in a jar of water,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: and if the lungs float, then the baby took a
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: breath and survived the birthing process. They sink to the
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: bottom them and the baby was more than likely a stillborn.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: The unfortunate thing with the float tests is if there
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: is any decomposition, because especially with these dumpster babies, they're
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: not often found right away, and the decomposition process starts,
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: bacteria starts producing gases, and the gases and that make
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: the lungs actually float, so that can throw that test off.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: The other thing you can look for is is phologically
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: looking for expansion of the airspaces and the lungs, which
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: again can show that the baby possibly took a breath,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: But if any CPR was done, that can disrupt that
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: test as well. So there aren't a lot of good
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: tests to determine whether the baby was alive at the
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: time of birth or not. We just have a few
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: that we can use to brand.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: How do you go about proving this case other than
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you've already caught the mom in a lie, a couple
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of lies.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Well, that's going to be mostly with a homicide investigation.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Once it starts comes offside investigation. The suspect Crowe has
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: already given statements. That's, like you said earlier, a weave
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: of lies, and it's going to come down to her admitting,
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: and it's going to be an admission on her part.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: It almost always is in cases like this, when confronted
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: with the evidence, when confronted with the lies that she told,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: she's going to end up admitting to what she has done.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: And there's also the issue of following her trail. Does
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: lie three.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Sixty show that she went to the dumpster site? Does
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: her nap system in her car show she went to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: the dumpster site?
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Do surveillance videos.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Behind or around Wally World's show her pulling in and leaving?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: If so, what day?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: She obviously is not going to have a mental defect
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: defense because she knows enough to lie to her family,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to go to a location, put the baby in a dumpster,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: to lie to police about where she's been, about her miscarriage,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: about the white trash bag. Her lies are becoming intricate
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and they're very hard to keep straight once you start
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: a tangle of lies. I was speaking earlier to Michelle Fingerman,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: VP of National Programs for child help at childhelp dot Org.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I can't really stress child help dot org enough. It
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: never seems to end. Take a listen to our cut fifteen.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Another example, this one out of Florida.
• 35:36
  Speaker 10: This is the dumpster where the baby girl was found
• 35:38
  Speaker 10: on Wednesday. Her apartment is just beyond in that back corner.
• 35:43
  Speaker 10: She told investigator she didn't think the baby was breathing
• 35:46
  Speaker 10: and put.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Her in the dumpster.
• 35:49
  Speaker 10: Investigators released new details about a newborn babygirl found inside
• 35:53
  Speaker 10: this dumpster at a Westboca apartment complex.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: The arrest report.
• 35:58
  Speaker 10: Says the baby had a plastic bag around her head
• 36:01
  Speaker 10: and was placed inside another plastic bag. Investigators dug through
• 36:05
  Speaker 10: the trash and found a matching plastic bag with a
• 36:08
  Speaker 10: receipt to Fantastic Beauty Supply.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: We found her like that.
• 36:12
  Speaker 10: Jessica Raya says she was working the day detectives came
• 36:14
  Speaker 10: in and remembers the suspect, Rafaela Sosuck, coming in the
• 36:18
  Speaker 10: store on Tuesday. Employees were able to help investigators because
• 36:22
  Speaker 10: their computer system stores clients names and phone numbers.
• 36:26
  Speaker 9: We have to put in the client's information in order
• 36:29
  Speaker 9: for us to process the order for them.
• 36:31
  Speaker 10: The arrest report shows Sosa told deputy she thought her
• 36:34
  Speaker 10: baby wasn't breathing and took the baby to the dumpster.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Why not have a funeral for Pete's sake?
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And that's the Florida baby, and what about the Vegas baby?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Take a listener, cut sixteenth.
• 36:46
  Speaker 11: Do you want you guys to take a look.
• 36:47
  Speaker 12: Neighbors who know nothing about this baby are out here
• 36:50
  Speaker 12: leaving flowers and candles because it's just such a devastating situation.
• 36:55
  Speaker 12: I did spend the day out here, and neighbors told
• 36:58
  Speaker 12: me a man who lives in this area found the
• 37:00
  Speaker 12: baby's body inside one of these dumpsters, inside a duffel bag.
• 37:05
  Speaker 11: He tried to lift the buck, but it was heavy.
• 37:09
  Speaker 12: This woman didn't want to share her name, but told
• 37:11
  Speaker 12: me what happened Sunday morning in the alley behind her apartment.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Neighbor who lived to buildings away from here, who was
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: looking on for the dobls and he thought a ruffel
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: repped buck.
• 37:23
  Speaker 12: Her neighbor couldn't lift the bag, so she told me
• 37:26
  Speaker 12: he unzipped it and sold the baby.
• 37:28
  Speaker 11: She says he called nine one one North. Las Vegas.
• 37:31
  Speaker 11: Police haven't stopped investigating sin And.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: There's the Delaware baby and our cut eighteen.
• 37:37
  Speaker 8: The lead line in Newsweek said they were the perfect teens.
• 37:41
  Speaker 8: Then she got pregnant, They got scared. Amy Grosberg and
• 37:45
  Speaker 8: Brian Peterson brutalized and discarded in a dumpster. The victim
• 37:49
  Speaker 8: of Amy and Brian was their unnamed newborn child. It
• 37:53
  Speaker 8: was November of ninety six, and Grosberg had hidden her
• 37:56
  Speaker 8: pregnancy from her parents before moving to Newark to attend
• 37:59
  Speaker 8: the University of Delaware. Peterson was attending college in Pennsylvania,
• 38:03
  Speaker 8: but rushed to Newark when Grosberg's water broke and checked
• 38:06
  Speaker 8: them into the comfort in. Conflicting stories have made the
• 38:09
  Speaker 8: subsequent events a mystery to anyone except the couple, But
• 38:12
  Speaker 8: Peterson and Grosburg claim they believed the infant to be
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: still born, wrapped him in a garbage bag, and disposed
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: of him in a dumpster.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: If they believe the child was still born, why was
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: it brutally beaten dead? But in this case, doctor Angie Arnold,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the mom is a thirty six year old grown woman.
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: Right, So Nancy, we all know that that means that
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: she knows better. But you know, but Nancy, I agree,
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: what's going to happen is what she's going to find
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: out is that there's so much information that's going to
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: tie her to this that there's no way she's going
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: to get out of it. She's going to have to
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: admit to this. It's a very and I also believe Nancy.
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: You know the fact that as you were talking about
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: the dumpster and the fact that she literally dug under
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: the trash in the dumpster to put the baby, she
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: did know what she was doing. She didn't want that
• 39:06
  Speaker 6: baby to be found, and she dug under all of
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: the trash and put the baby under the trash.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Michelle Fingerman joining me VP National Programs Childhelp dot Org. Michelle,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: what are alternatives from others that don't want the baby?
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Listen, I don't understand. I can't relate to that.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I wanted a family so badly, and again, these have
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: been the best sixteen years of my whole life, or
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: the time I've had with John, David and Lucy, my children.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: But for moms that don't feel that way, what are
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: the alternatives? What can they do? Michelle Fingerman?
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: There's choices.
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: There's obviously positive choices that don't have to result in
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: babies dying. There are adoptions we have safe haven laws.
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: You know there's free confidential help or somebody in the
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: situation can pick up a phone or send a chatter
• 40:03
  Speaker 7: text and understand what options that they have that will
• 40:08
  Speaker 7: give this baby a chance in life.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: What alternatives? When you say safe havens, could you explain
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: that place?
• 40:14
  Speaker 9: Yes, So, taking babies in Alabama their safe haven laws
• 40:18
  Speaker 9: taking babies to emergency room departments recently passed the law
• 40:22
  Speaker 9: where they're going to expand that where you can take
• 40:25
  Speaker 9: babies within so many days three days. I think that's
• 40:28
  Speaker 9: expanding to forty five days in Alabama where they can
• 40:32
  Speaker 9: go to a fire station and take the baby there.
• 40:37
  Speaker 9: So from there the professionals can handle it to make
• 40:39
  Speaker 9: sure that this baby gets the medical attention that this
• 40:43
  Speaker 9: girl needed can be on the pathway to finding a
• 40:48
  Speaker 9: family that wants wanted to raise her.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: If you or someone you know doesn't want the baby,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: dial toll free to childhelp dot org. They will help
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: you find a save haven to take the baby and.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: You won't get in trouble.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: There will be no prosecution, there'll be no judging, no shaming,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: and the baby will live. The number is eight hundred
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: four two two four four five three repeat eight hundred
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: four two two four four five three. You can find
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: all the information at childhelp dot org. And as for
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Cindy Nicole crow Booker, Goodbye frid