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Training Season · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters this podcast
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: is recorded on. Not all love stories are really, well, stories.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Not everyone has fireworks, overwhelming butterflies or cosmic kismet moments
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: that tell them they've just met the one. They don't
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: have big hurdles to overcome, any meet-cute to tell the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: grandkids or the it-almost-didn't-happen sliding-door moment. Some of the greatest
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: loves come about quietly and they can often be the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: most beautiful and long-lasting.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a dramatic love at first sight story overwhelming
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: love story. It was just two people who met by
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  Speaker 2: chance and fell in love and started building a future.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: And we did build a lot together in those 11 years.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: But, dear listeners, life itself is dramatic, whether we want
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  Speaker 1: it to be or not. Sometimes it's in the quietest
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  Speaker 1: and calmest of moments something can happen. A pin can drop,
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  Speaker 1: a butterfly can flap its wings, and suddenly everything changes.
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  Speaker 2: I was just in a state of shock. I didn't yell,
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  Speaker 2: I just stood there and was kind of running over
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  Speaker 2: my head. What does that even mean? Is it all fake?
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  Speaker 2: Is it all? I just felt like my life was
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  Speaker 2: like a highlight reel, but no one really knew.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has an Ex.
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  Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
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  Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
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  Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. For many
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: of us, thinking back to being 20 years old is
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: like casting your memory back to a different life altogether.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe you were at uni, in your first job, living
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: with your parents or travelling the world, partying every weekend
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and very much only dating for fun. Thoughts of forever love,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: marriage and a family, debt, mortgages, school fees, they were
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: all a world away. Being 20 is for vibes only,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: and that was certainly the case for today's storyteller, Sarah.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: when she got the old dopamine hit in that sound
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  Speaker 1: effect on Tinder that she'd matched with a guy named Jack.
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  Speaker 2: I was 20 years old. I was in my final
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  Speaker 2: year of my nursing studies at university and I actually
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  Speaker 2: matched with him on Tinder, which I wasn't using for
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a particular, you know, I wasn't really looking to settle
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: down when I was 20 years old. I do remember
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: some girlfriends and I sitting around just trying to match
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  Speaker 2: as many as we could just as a game. And
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  Speaker 2: he actually had a really awful, quite dirty pickup line
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: that he used. And I was immediately turned off.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, well, that's the end of Jack then?
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  Speaker 2: He had messaged me when he was back at work
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: during a work week. And he said, you know, I
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: think my friend took my phone or something like that.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: And it kind of just started from there. But it
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: took a while. I think we were speaking for three
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: months before we actually went on a first date. He
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: kind of wore me down and he was just consistent, kind.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: He made me laugh. And eventually I was like, oh,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: maybe I should go on a date with this man.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't thinking, you know, this is my future
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: husband or anything like that at the time. I was
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: only 20 years old. But yeah, I think he just
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: kind of persisted and I liked that. Our first date
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: was we went to just a fancy ice cream place
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: and it was summer at the time and we just
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: got our ice cream and then we walked around the corner,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: found a little park and we just sat in the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: park talking for hours until it was nearly dark. And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that was kind of our first date. I went home.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: We had a kiss. That was it. It wasn't anything extraordinary.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: But that's what made it extraordinary to them. That's how
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the word's spelled, after all. Extraordinary. Just two young adults meeting,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: dating and falling in love.
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  Speaker 2: We dated for a long time. We just did those
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  Speaker 2: stereotypical things, going to the movies together, going to restaurants.
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  Speaker 2: We met each other's families and friends. He was just a...
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  Speaker 2: really like family orientated he was really shy which I
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  Speaker 2: really liked because I'm quite bubbly and outgoing and I
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  Speaker 2: felt like he kind of ranged me in a bit
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  Speaker 2: so yeah I felt like we were kind of pretty
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  Speaker 2: we are pretty opposite and I think I liked that
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  Speaker 2: because he was kind of calming to me yeah and
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  Speaker 2: I just felt really comfortable I never felt he never
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  Speaker 2: put me under any stress I didn't I just felt
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  Speaker 2: at ease it was really easy for me actually I
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  Speaker 2: don't think there was this dramatic love at first sight
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  Speaker 2: type of love with him. It was just something that
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  Speaker 2: it was built over time. It was just, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we loved doing things together. We were always out and about.
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  Speaker 2: We were never people that sat at home and, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we went away for a lot of weekends together. And
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  Speaker 2: I think, you know, like our love language then was
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  Speaker 2: just a lot of quality time. Yeah, I think that's,
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  Speaker 2: you know, sums it up really. Just a quite a
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: lovely life where we spent time together. We made each
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  Speaker 2: other laugh. I didn't feel like we had a lot
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: of stress in that initial phases of our relationship. I
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  Speaker 2: just thought this is just so easy for me. Like
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  Speaker 2: it didn't feel hard. We just got on really well.
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  Speaker 2: Two years into it, we moved out together into our
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: own little rental. We got a dog together. We kind
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  Speaker 2: of did those really stereotypical step-by-step things that we both
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: wanted to have children and start a family and we
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: both had goals to move. We were living kind of
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: in the city at that time and we had goals
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  Speaker 2: to move out of the city and I felt like
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  Speaker 2: we just really aligned with our values and what we
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: wanted in life. So it was kind of a no-brainer
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: for me. I was just like, yep, that's it.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And it was it for Jack too. After three years
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: of living together, they got engaged. They moved out of
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the city, had their dream wedding and ended up building
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: their dream home. By the age of 26, they were
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: living the blissful, carefree, simple Aussie dream. To continue on
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: that timeline and complete the checkboxes, well, it was time
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to add the pitter-patter of little feet.
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  Speaker 2: We were living in out-of-city suburbs. We started to think
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: about where we wanted our children to grow up and
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: what type of home we wanted to have. Did we
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: want a bit of land? And eventually we landed on
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: further out of the city suburbs. And we bought land
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and then we built a house there. So, yeah, we
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: were just, we're happy to, like, we didn't know anyone
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: in that area. It's quite far from our families, but
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: we just thought a nice small country upbringing for our
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: children would be great. We started trying to have children
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: further on into our relationship after we were engaged and
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Then we realised it wasn't going to be as easy
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: as we had thought. So we did struggle with a
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: bit of male infertility. Yeah, it was quite a dark
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: time for us, just with uncertainty, disappointment, a lot of
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: negative pregnancy tests. But eventually we were super lucky and
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: we had our daughter in 2021. And then, you know,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: further down the track when we were thinking, oh, I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: think we're ready to have another one, we had started
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the treatment to fall pregnant again and... by a fluke.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I think they said there was 5% chance of us
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: having a baby naturally. Our son was conceived and yeah,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: then it was kind of a time where we couldn't
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: believe it really. I think I still did 1,000 pregnancy
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: tests because I thought this couldn't be, like there's no way.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I feel so grateful to have both of them.
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  Speaker 2: It's such a blur for me now, that whole period.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And I was on maternity leave and I thought, I
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: did notice maybe I felt like we were struggling as
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: a couple in that we were going through this season
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: of our life with a newborn and a toddler and
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  Speaker 2: sleep deprivation. And, you know, I was breastfeeding and I
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  Speaker 2: did feel that myself that I was just I felt
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  Speaker 2: burnt out as a mother. But I just thought this
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  Speaker 2: is a season of our life that will pass and
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  Speaker 2: we'll be OK. We're going to come out the other
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  Speaker 2: side of it. It wasn't, you know, big, huge arguments
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  Speaker 2: we were having. It was just little things here and there.
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  Speaker 1: It was all very normal for this stage of life,
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  Speaker 1: marriage and parenthood, but Sarah never wanted that to be
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  Speaker 1: her whole life or let it consume her. She'd moved
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: away from the city where she'd grown up and where
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: she'd spent all her party years, so while she made
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: sure she tried to maintain her old friendships from home,
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  Speaker 1: it was harder than when they lived around the corner.
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  Speaker 1: She wanted and needed to find and make new friends
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  Speaker 1: in her new town, so she stepped outside of her
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  Speaker 1: comfort zone and out of the trenches of the baby
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  Speaker 1: bubble and joined the local gym.
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  Speaker 2: Around, I think, when my daughter was 12 months old,
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  Speaker 2: I was kind of in a bit of a rut.
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  Speaker 2: I was feeling really down about my body. I felt
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  Speaker 2: like I'd really let myself go. And so I thought,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to go join the local gym. So I
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  Speaker 2: did that. And through that, I met the personal trainer
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  Speaker 2: there who trained me.
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  Speaker 1: Her name was Tiffany.
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  Speaker 2: And outside of that, you know, we started hanging out
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: outside of that. And I was... quite dedicated. I went
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  Speaker 2: to the gym six days a week. So I saw
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: her six days a week. Initially, she was just a
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  Speaker 2: personal trainer to me, but then obviously you spend so
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: much time with someone and, you know, she'd be like,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: do you want to go get our nails done? Do
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: you want to get a coffee after the gym? Do
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: you want to go, you know, to dinner? Do you
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  Speaker 2: want to take our children to bounce like the play
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  Speaker 2: center together? And I thought, oh, this is so nice.
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  Speaker 2: Like in a small town where I didn't really know anyone,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I thought, oh, this is so nice, like nice community
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  Speaker 2: feel about this town. And, yeah, it was just an
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: easy friend. She was polite, kind, overly friendly of anything.
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  Speaker 2: She really supported me, I guess, because I wanted to
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: lose weight and get strong. And she was always like,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you can do this, like very positive. I think when
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: you move to a small town, it's obviously harder to
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: make friends. And, you know, all my friends, weren't in
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: those areas, they'd all gone off and had their own lives.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: So it was really important for me, being a social
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: person that I am, that I made friends there. And
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I did make other friends as well alongside her, but
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: that was someone that I saw consistently, regularly. Even if
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I wasn't at gym, she made me feel really good.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it was just a very easy friendship. She
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: was lovely. We'd been friends for three years and she
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: trained me the whole way through I trained up until
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the day I gave birth to my son. So she
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: was really supportive through that. I had off the usual
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: six weeks that they say, and I still went back
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: and walked to the gym every day because I missed
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: it so much with him. And then I was on
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: mat leave and I started bringing my son with me
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: in a little capsule and she would hold him for me.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And I think he was quite unsettled at times and
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: she'd be like, it's fine, keep training, I've got him.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I just thought, wow, like what a nice,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: kind person that wants to support me to be a
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: better mum. And I think everyone used to always say,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, she's holding your kids again.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: And by this point, it really had become a whole
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: family affair.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And at the time, my husband, he wasn't at the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: gym initially, but he had joined later on down the track.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I think once he started seeing like, oh, she's, you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: really enjoying this and He thought, yeah, I think I
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: should join too. So he kind of just, it was
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: just like, of course, of course, join. We were doing
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: group classes at the time and there was like little
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: comments that, you know, she's the better trainer there. And
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I would agree. She really knows her job. She's really helpful.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: She helps me with the kids as well. So then
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  Speaker 2: he started training. He wanted to do a high rocks training.
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  Speaker 2: High Rocks is a fitness competition that involves running and
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: then some strength exercises in between. So run a K
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and then do a K on the ski erg, run
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: a K and then do, you know, the final task
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: is do 100 wall balls. So I think all up
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you end up doing eight Ks of running and then
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: all these strength exercises in between, wall balls, lunges, burpees.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: He'd mentioned to me that he wanted to do a
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: High Rocks. This is only when our son was eight
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: weeks old. And he said, I don't want to do
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it by myself though. And I said, look, I'm only
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: eight weeks postpartum. I don't want to let you down. Like, yes,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I was back at the gym, but only for two weeks.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: And there was three months till it was time. And
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I just thought, no, like my body's not ready to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: be put through that. Of course, you could just do
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: no training and rock up, but you're going to be A,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: probably not finish it and B, be very sore. So
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I have done one myself. So I do know that
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: you do have to train if you want to do
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: well in it, I guess as well. And that was
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: just something that he wanted to do. And I've been
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: supportive of everything else. So why wouldn't I be supportive
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: of this? And I said to him, I'll do one
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: with you later on in the year. But I said,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it with you. And then
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: he actually came up with the idea. He said, oh,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I could ask Tiffany, the personal trainer. So for me,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I was just like, oh, course like she would be
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: brilliant because a she knows what she needs to train
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: and it's just someone that I felt comfortable with and
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: that was fine by me I didn't have any issues
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: with them training together she was married with two children
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: her children were older than ours and she'd been in
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: that town forever you know around she grew up in
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: the surrounding suburbs and then kind of stayed around the
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: area people knew her she was friendly with everyone and
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I'd never heard her really say a bad word about anyone.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: She was helpful to me, so there was no issues
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: in me agreeing to let them train together. I just thought, well, yeah,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: this person, of course, this is the best person for
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: this job, essentially. So with their training, it was pretty regularly.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I'd say at least three times a week. We did
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: have some disagreements in the timing sometimes of training, so
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I kind of said, like 6.30pm just isn't a good
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: time for us. I have a newborn that's really unsettled
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: at this time and I'm trying to get a three-year-old
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: toddler off to bed. So there was some moments where
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: we did have some disagreements in that, but it wasn't something,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I was upset about it, but I
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: just said, just go. Like, you know, the kids would
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: both be screaming, but I knew that it was important
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: to him and I was like, I'm fine. Like, I
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: can do this by myself because I'm quite an independent person.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: So for me, it wasn't a huge... argument. So they
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: were training together. And then every now and then there
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: was some other extra training, I guess, where he'd say, oh,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I need to go do a run with her on
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the weekend. And I'd be like, yep, that's fine. I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: was just like, you kind of need to train for it. Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So the day came when they were doing the high rocks.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: We went down as a family with our daughter. We
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: got her to make little signs that said, go daddy
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: and Tiffany and put their little faces on it. And
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: His parents came as well and watched. And I just
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: had a little baby in a carrier walking around, following
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: them around, taking photos. And yeah, and they finished it
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: and they did well and they were happy with how
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: they did. And I was really proud. I was like, wow,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: you know, you've done this hard thing. And yeah, I
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: was just happy.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Sarah was also happy that it was now behind them.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: The level and amount of training the High Rocks took
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: meant her husband had been out of the house a
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: lot and parenting a toddler and a baby is no
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: mean feat, let alone, well, alone. Sarah was ready to
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: herself be Jack's partner again. Team training was one thing,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: but home was where his real team was.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: So once the High Rocks competition was done, I thought, OK,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I might get a bit of my husband back now
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: and he can help out with the children a bit more,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: but that really wasn't the case. They kind of did
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: stop the one-on-one training, but he still went to group
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: classes of an evening and, you know, there was still
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: a bit of tension there at the time in our
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: relationship regarding that. I didn't have an issue with him
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: training with her necessarily. I just thought, I'm obviously struggling
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and what are you really doing to help me with that?
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: It was more just that I felt like I was
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: really struggling with the kids essentially at that time. Our
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: daughter was never, she's still not a great sleeper and
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: trying to get her off to bed and then a
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: screaming baby as well. And that was, you know, exclusively breastfed.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Like I couldn't just give someone a bottle and say,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: take the baby. I could have, but I chose not
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: to obviously. So yeah, it was just, I just remember
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: like I was crying a lot at that time. He
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: kind of just said, it's just a part of our
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: lives now. And I kind of felt like I was
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: just shoved aside a bit with how I was feeling. And,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: you know, you're tired, like it's just, you know, you're
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: carrying on a bit essentially. I'm just sleep deprived. I
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: wasn't really, you know, I was on maternity leave. My
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: life was just the children essentially. But I was still
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: going to gym and I never disclosed any of those
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: issues to Tiffany because I'm just not that type of
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: person that with any of my friends I don't really
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: talk about. Any of my issues, that's just I choose
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: to deal with them personally. We were just in a
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: difficult phase of our life and it was just another
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: thing that we were going to get over together. We
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: got through infertility together. You know, this is just another
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: little bump in the road and, you know, I thought
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: all parents are experiencing this.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: And they were, or they do. Sarah had read the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: parenting books. She was in the Facebook groups and on
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the Reddit threads. It was as it had always been
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: for them for 11 years now. Their marriage and their
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: lives were, in Sarah's own words, nothing extraordinary. So a
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: random Monday in October, when Sarah went to the gym
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: with her eight-month-old son in tow, should have been just
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: another extraordinary day.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: It was just a usual Monday for me. I was
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: still off work at the time. I dropped my daughter
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: off at daycare and then took my son with me
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: to the gym to do the morning class, as usual
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I did, six days a week. She was obviously there
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: training the class and my son was being a little
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: bit difficult. I still remember. And she said, you know,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: passing to me, I'll hold him for you. That's fine.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And she carried him around for the whole 45 minute session,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: which wasn't unusual. It's just what she did. And then
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I went home and Jack was home. Because he started
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: his own business as well at the same time this
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: was all happening. And he worked from home on a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Monday doing some admin work. And I was playing with
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: my son on the floor. He walked in just like
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: usual and he had asked me, how was the gym?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And I said, good, just another usual day. I actually
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: did mention something to him. And I said, oh, I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: did feel like Tiffany was a little bit off. Off
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: as in I She just seemed a bit down, but
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I just, I didn't pry into it. I said, oh,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I felt like she was something a bit off with her.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: And I still remember the words. He just said, I
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: need to talk to you about something. And I just thought, oh,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: this will just be, you know, another normal conversation about,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know, something. that he wanted to do this
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: weekend or something to do with work but the way
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: that he worded it to me was I have feelings
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: for Tiffany and I remember just freezing I didn't say
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: anything I just stood there staring at him. And then
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean? He said, obviously, we'd
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: been spending time together. And I just said, do you
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: want to be with her? I think that was my
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: first thought. Do you want to be with her? Do
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: you not want to be in this relationship anymore? And
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: he immediately was defensive and was like, no, no, no.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to end things with you. These kids
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: are my life and I don't want to be with her.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And I just thought, why? I did ask him, what's
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: made you, why are you just telling me this now? Like,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: how long has it been going on? And he just said,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: it's just something I decided to come clean about. And
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: then I took my son and I left the house
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: and I went for a long two-hour walk, I think,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: around town. I just didn't want to be in that
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: space at that time and I didn't want to yell
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: and scream like in front of a child or have
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: those arguments then. And he messaged me at some point
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: throughout the walk and said, you know, are you coming home?
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And I said, I am. I just need some time
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to myself. And I just walked. I didn't message anyone.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't. I just walked around just thinking what has
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: just happened to me. Obviously, in my head, I think
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: everyone that has a betrayal obviously goes through that in
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: their mind. What's wrong with me? What did I not
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: give you enough attention? Did I not? communicate enough with
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: you in my mind I was just thinking why am
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I not good enough and yeah why if there was
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: no end point like you're not going to go leave
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: and be with her it's kind of all for nothing
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: essentially my mind was just racing because I was thinking
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and I didn't actually think immediately I'm out like that
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: wasn't my immediate thought it was kind of what do
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: you mean is this something we can work through yeah
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I wasn't actually saying to him, I'm going to leave
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: you and take the kids and, you know, you'll never
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: see them again. That wasn't ever my mindset. I just
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: wanted to know why.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: So that's exactly what she asked him. She gathered her thoughts,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: made a mental list of questions, thought about what it
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: was she wanted and went home to try to make
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: some sense of a world that had just come crashing down.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I came back after two hours or so and I
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: was never ragingly angry and screaming. Like I just was,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I just felt defeated really. And then I thought, wow,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: how could you do this to me after I felt,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: you know, everything I've put myself through, I've been there
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to support you through so many things and that's the
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: way that you repay me. And we had a conversation
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: and lots of conversation about, like, I thought, do you
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: want to actually make this work? And, you know, he
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: said to me, I really do. He was kind of saying,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you know, this is rock bottom for us and, yeah,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: because he said we can get help, like we're going
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: to go, like he really wanted to go to counselling.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: You know, he was so adamant that he even said
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: some outrageous things like, I'll take my life if you
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: leave me. I said to him, this is the perfect
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: opportunity for you to just tell me everything that's happened
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: because I'm really hurt and, you know, there's nothing you
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: can say now that's going to make it worse, essentially.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: But he just had told me at the time. that
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: they hadn't slept together, that it was just an emotional affair,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: that they had kissed each other and that's it really.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: He said, you know, that was the end of it.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I felt really blindsided by both of them and obviously
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of hurt there because I felt
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: like she actively tried to essentially, you know, put herself
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: in my life more than she didn't really create any
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: distance or not that that would have made it any
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: better for me, but I just thought like what type
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: of person can do this to someone that's having this
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: one reality, being a friend and then secretly behind her
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: back messaging her husband and dismantling her life. Like I
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: just couldn't believe it. I didn't reach out to her
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: initially when he told me, but I knew that he
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: and her had been in conversation because I received quite
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: a lengthy text message from her. And from my perspective,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel like it was in a True, authentic apology.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I felt like it was a list of excuses of
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: why it happened. And she said, I'm struggling in my
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: marriage with my husband and, you know, I'm going through
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: a lot there. And I just thought, this is such
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: a cop out. I don't really care that you were
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: struggling in your marriage. You knew that I was married
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: and you crossed a boundary there. They didn't just decide
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: to come clean. It was that her husband had found
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: messages on her phone. and had confronted her, and then
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: obviously she told Jack, and then Jack felt obliged to
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: tell me. I really didn't want a bar of it, essentially,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: and I replied once to that message, and I just said,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to hear a fake apology. I don't
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: have any time for someone like you. I felt like
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: with her I just thought, what have I missed? Was
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: it a friendship that I just had created in my head?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Did she not? you know, feel that way. But I
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: just think, yeah, you can't sit there and ruminate over
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: if the thoughts in someone else's mind, like we'll never
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: know truly what went on in their minds. And the
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: same from his perspective too, I just thought, has all
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: of this been fake? Like the whole, you kind of,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: at that point, I did kind of forget all those
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: good memories that we'd shared together. And I just thought,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: is it all fake? Is it all, I just felt
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: like my life was like a highlight reel, but no
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: one really knew.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: But Jack was adamant that wasn't the case and even
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: more adamant he wanted to right his wrongs to make
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: it work for them as a couple and as a family.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I was really open to couples counselling because I just
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: thought we'd shared such a history together. We had our
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: children together. I had liked who he was up until
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: that point. At the start they said you kind of
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: need to come in and have them twice a week, weekly,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: like that's how bad this situation is. We did all
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: that and, you know, that was... Another thing to juggle,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: we had our kids. So we're like, who do we
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: tell so that someone can help us with the kids?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And we did end up telling his parents the situation
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and they were really supportive. And they said, we love
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: you both and we want this to work. So yeah,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: everyone was really supportive in that. But I did say,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I have some boundaries that I need you to respect.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: And that was, you know, taking your passcode off your phone,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: not being trained by her. I did ask that he
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: leave that gym and go to a different gym, which
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: he couldn't do. Couldn't do or chose not to do.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: And his excuse was, it is true that that is
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: the only gym in our town, but I said, you're
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: just going to have to travel 20 minutes to the
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: next town now. This is what you've done and that's
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: what I'm asking of you. And he kind of couldn't
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: do it. And he said, I'll go at different times
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: that she's there. I quit the gym altogether at that point.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I stopped going. And he kind of just went at
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: times when I thought she wasn't there, essentially. He was
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: just kind of saying, you know, she's someone that made
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: me feel good about myself. And he didn't feel that
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I complimented him enough. And I think like the therapist
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: did say something, which was, I thought was really good
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: perspective for him was like, she's a personal trainer. Her
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: job is to make people feel good about themselves. He
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: was saying like, he's not talking to her anymore. He'd
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: like look me dead straight in the eyes without blinking.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: You know, he said he'd stopped. He doesn't see her anymore.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So the counselling, we did counselling for three, four months,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: all up. And so, yeah, it was quite a long process,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: but it was also enjoyable too, because it was kind of,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: you know, getting back to basics about, you know, we'd
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: kind of stopped, when you're at a point in your life,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: you just kind of stop dating each other, which we agree,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: you know, we did. So we started to make more
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: time for each other. And yeah, eventually there was no
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: initial red flags there for me during counselling. I just thought, yeah,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: we're working for this together. We both want this. I
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: remember one day I said, can I have a look
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: at your phone? And he said, no. And I said,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: why not? And he said, because I've messaged her. And
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean? Like, we've just paid
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: all this money, done all this counselling, put in all
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: this effort, and now you're telling me you've messaged her.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And I said to him, like, why? And he said,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: she's my friend. I said, that's not your friend. Like,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you can't tell me that you've got feelings for someone
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: and now you're just telling me it's just a friend.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And he said, she's got no one. And I thought,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that's not my fault. This is what she's done. She's
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: got her own friends and family. They're the people that
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: she should be talking to, not you. I thought, I
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: have no one. My family aren't here. My friends don't
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: live in this town. She has her parents, her siblings,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: her nieces, her nephews. So for me, I just felt
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: like that was a cop-out. You've got a lot of
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: people around you. You're just choosing not to lean on them.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I just felt like I was back to the beginning.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I just thought, why have I wasted so much time
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: on this person that isn't really trying that even though
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: he would argue that he tried because he did couples counselling.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I just think you didn't try though, because I asked
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: for all these boundaries to be respected and you couldn't
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: respect them. There was other things too, like don't follow
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: her on social media, which I thought was a no
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: brainer for someone that's had an affair, but I'd like
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: go on and have a look. Like it kind of
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: turned me into this crazy person. Like I was like,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, now I'm looking through her followers to see,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: oh yes, he is following her. Oh, he's not following
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: her from his personal page, but he is still the
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: business page. So I kind of just felt just like
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: he was trying to blindside me or just thought maybe
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't realise. He did say something to me. He
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: said to me, if I could develop a connection with her,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: maybe I never have loved you at all. And I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: just thought, no, I don't need this in my life.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: There's someone out there that won't do this to me.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to be with someone that makes
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: me question my worth. You just feel awful about yourself.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: You just think, you know, you ran through everything in
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: your head. Like, did I have a different reality of
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: our life? And yeah, you question your own self-worth. Was
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I not pretty enough? Did I not, was I not
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: funny enough? You just run through all those things in
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: your head, which now hindsight, like I know is nothing
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: to do with me, but yeah, it was just a
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: dark place. I felt like I was taken advantage of
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: essentially in that He probably thought she's too tired to
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: care or, you know, but it's so much worse. I
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: think when you know that someone is in that postpartum
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: fragile stage of their life where they're tired, obviously my
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: body didn't feel like it was mine. I just had
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: someone attached to me all the time. I felt really
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: touched out. So yeah, I guess just that added part
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: of being postpartum just made it all just so much
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: worse when I thought someone should be like holding me
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: so sacredly that I've just put my body through this
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: enormous strain and sacrificed, you know, you sacrifice your career
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and things like that. And then for someone just to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: be doing something behind your back, it just makes it
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: so much worse. It was awful. I just, I was
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: crying a lot. I was trying not to cry a
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: lot because I didn't want the kids to be affected
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: and them to see my hurt. But yeah, it's really hard.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: You still have to, when you're a mum, you still,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: you don't really have time to sit in your own grief.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: You kind of have to get up and you know,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: keep moving on. I think in my head I knew
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: that I had to leave, but obviously I think having
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: children makes that so much harder because I'm sitting there thinking,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, how am I going to be a
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: single mum and how am I going to survive? And so, yeah,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I did have lots of thoughts around that and I
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: didn't want the kids to be in a broken home.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: No one ever wants that, but Yeah, I just knew.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And he said to me, like, let's try counselling one
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: more time. And I just thought, I'm not doing that.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: This is a waste of my time. And I did
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: know deep down, but it still took me maybe still
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: a few more conversations and that to realise, like, no,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: this isn't it for me. He kind of said to me,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: you know, we had a lot of conversations and it
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: was like, essentially, he just said he doesn't know who
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: he is anymore. And I was like, well, you know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: you can go find that out, but I'm not going
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: to hang around and, you know, waste my time. the
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: conversation at the time was, I was obviously very upset.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel like he really showed much emotion throughout
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: much of it. I didn't really see him cry or
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I saw him maybe more get angry about things, but
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: angry at the situation. But I remember just, we were
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: sitting there and I just said like, what are we doing?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Like this, this isn't working. This isn't what I want.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: And so then our conversation kind of turned to our
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: kids a bit more like, okay, what does this mean
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: for them? So yeah, it was kind of, I felt
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: like it was a built, we'd already had, I'd already
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: felt emotional about everything before that. Once we had decided,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I thought that would be the easiest part. Like you've
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: made a decision, but then there's lots of things that
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: come with that. Like we had a home together. He
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: kind of didn't want to move out of the home.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Wasn't back at work yet. Still on maternity leave. And then...
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: We said, let's just try and live under the same
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: roof while we sell the house. That would be the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: best for us financially. We both don't need to be
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: out there renting. We can just live together. But I
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: quickly found out that's not a very easy thing to do.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: And I think I lasted two months and then he said, well,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: you can move out then. I'm not moving. So I
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: found a rental. I moved out. My family came and
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: moved me out all in one day. And that was
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: that really, like I signed the paperwork for our house
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: to go on the market before I moved out, just
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: so I knew that that was all underway. And the
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: house actually took a long time to sell. So it
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: took six months, I think. So he stayed in the
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: house for those six months and I moved out and
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I'm still where I am now. It's so hard. And
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I hope that, you know, one day they look back
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: and know that I did what I thought was the
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: right thing by them. And It's really hard, you know,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I've had to consciously make an effort to co-parent with
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: this person who's got to be in, you know, my
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: life indefinitely. So, yeah, it's hard. You just try not
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: to break down in front of them, wait for them
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: to go to bed and have a cry and then
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: one of them wakes up again and you've just got
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: to wipe your tears and move on with it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: But, of course, there weren't only two players in this.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: So what happened with Tiffany?
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: When, obviously, after we were separated, we were still living
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: in the same house and I thought, I'm just going
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: to have a look at his phone, like, which, you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: probably is the worst thing to do and I wouldn't
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: recommend it to anyone. But yeah, I just started, I
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: had a look and I realised like they had been
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: having conversations on WhatsApp. Like that's why I never saw
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: it in the messages on the, you know, the usual
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: place where you'd find it. And she was saved under
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: his phone as BFF. So I was kind of like,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: you know, that I probably wouldn't have opened that. I
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: decided I sat there and I just read the conversations
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: between them and I was just gobsmacked. Like it was
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: just like them, you know, just talking dirtily to each other,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: sending images to each other. They'd send photos of our
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: kids back and forth, which I thought was quite disgusting.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it was just, there was like talk in
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: there of the fact that they had had sex I
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: think deep down, like people had said to me, as
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: if you don't think more had gone on. And I said, yeah,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: like probably. It wasn't that much of a shock to me.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: But I just didn't know the depths of it and
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: their conversations and whatnot. So, yeah, it was like another
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: dagger to the heart. And I probably shouldn't have read it. But,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you know, that's hindsight now. But I never confronted him
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: about it because I'd already separated. I'd already made my decision.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't need to go back and unhash all that. Obviously,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: the joys of, I don't know, it's the joys of
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: living in a small town, but obviously everyone likes to
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: tell you everything that's going on. But she decided to,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: she stayed with her husband. I see them sometimes still
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: down the street together, but I also know that he
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: still sees her. My ex-husband still sees her as well.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: People spot them together at cafes. I went to the
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: cafe last week and my daughter said to me, Tiffany
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: was here with Daddy last week. And I was here.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I thought, wow, that's nice. So yeah, I think I'm
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: not sure what the nature though of that relationship is,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: but I do like lots of people do spot them
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: around town and in the gym together. And I've actually
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: rejoined that gym. So I do see her around still sometimes.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: So rejoining the gym was a slow process for me.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I started waking up at 4am and going to the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: gym then because I knew that she wasn't there yet.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And there was another mum that And I went at
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: that time and, you know, she said, just come with
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: me early and you'll be okay. Like, it's fine. And yeah,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: slowly I just started doing that. And then I sat
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: down with myself and I said, why am I uncomfortable
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: in a place that was once safe to me? Like
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: she should feel uncomfortable, not me. So then I just
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: started going a little bit more and I kind of
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: just was like, I'm not planning my schedule around her.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: You know, she can just deal with it. The hardest
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: thing now that if I go to the gym with
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: my children now that they still run up to her
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: and hug her. When they, you know, they'll say Tiffany
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: and they run up and give her a hug and
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I can't stop that. I'm not going to create a scene.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: The children are innocent in all of this. They don't understand.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I let the kids greet her and then
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I kind of just pop my headphones in and do
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: my own thing. Once I realised like, oh, I can
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: be around this person and, you know, that person isn't
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: really anything to me anymore. I don't need to know
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: what's going on in her life or his life or
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: what they're doing. Yeah, I'm just going to the gym
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to keep myself healthier for the kids. It'll be, I think,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: 18 months coming up and you kind of just reach this.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: You don't think that at the time, like you're going
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: to reach this place of just being happy again, but,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: you know, slowly but surely it happens. So our arrangement
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: is we do have 50-50 shared care of our children,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: which I think is really nice for them and they're
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: still quite young. Some days it's relentless, like, I think
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: that's the hardest part that, and I carry it quite well,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I think, that people always say, you're just doing such
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: a great job, but people don't see behind closed doors
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: when they're asleep that I'm crying, just trying to, you know,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: hold it together for them. Because when you're tired, you
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: don't really get the chance to tap out and say
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: to your partner, can you go get them? Can you
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: get up to them in the middle of the night?
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: They're sick now. It's kind of all on you. So
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: that part has been hard to adapt to, but we're
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: getting there. Our relationship now is... really good, I think,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: as co-parents. I can still not like what he did
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: to me and all the choices he's made, but I
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: still have to respect that he's the father of our
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: children and they deserve to have a good relationship with
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: him and I want them to. They love now that
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: they've got two houses and two bedrooms and we've tried
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: to make it a really positive experience. And I got
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: a new job, which is something I probably wouldn't have
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: thought of doing, but it kind of pushed me into
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: that space because of you know, I needed more flexibility.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I've just been enjoying working, furthering my career,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: spending time with my kids. And I have started dating again,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: which is a weird space to be in, but yeah,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it all. I think after, you know, I
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: was young when I got into a relationship and you've
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: been not dating and going on dates with people. And
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you're out there in a
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: world of dating apps and friends trying to set you
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: up with other friends. And yeah, it's just, just feels
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: weird that, you know, having to get to know someone
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: again and going back to all the basics things and
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: having conversations, but it's been enjoyable. And, you know, I've
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: met some really nice people and yeah, I think I
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: just have just some firmer boundaries in place about. And
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: you're kind of dating from a different lens now that
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: this far down the track that I'm not looking for
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: someone to have kids with and, you know, necessarily get
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: married again. So yeah, it's different. Yeah, I think essentially
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: for me, I just want my kids to be happy
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: and healthy. I just want to like look after myself
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: and my body further, my career, laugh, go out with friends,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: just simple everyday things really. And love, I hope one day,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: that I'm open to a relationship again one day, but
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: obviously you're still guarded, but you have to remember that
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: not everyone is going to do that to you. So
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: that's a really hard thing to get over. But yeah,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: it's a work in progress. I put myself in therapy
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: because I just don't want, I don't want to be
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: jaded in further relationships or carry that trauma onto my
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: kids and things like that. But the kids have been
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: They're a reason that you have to get up and
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: keep going. You can't sit there and wallow in your
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: pity on the couch. So, yeah, I think the kids
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: have helped a lot with that. And it's just, you know,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: every single day you just, like, notice little things that
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I smiled a bit more today, I
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: laughed a bit more today. And then you look back
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: and realise, like, oh, I made it out of that.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I think I have learnt that, you know, there are
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: still good people out there. I don't carry it with
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: me that every... girl that's going to befriend me is
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: going to go have an affair with a future partner
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: or I don't think like that at all and I
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: think it's really bad if you live in that headspace
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: of thinking that everything's going to go wrong when I
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: think I'm just a much more optimistic person now and
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: yeah you can't carry around hate with you forever I
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: kind of some people said do you want revenge on
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: her and I kind of said I think that the
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: consequences of their actions and just living in the quiet
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: of their minds in a small town where everyone knows
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: what you did, like, that's enough revenge for me. I
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: don't feel like I need to actively pursue her or
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: him in destroying their lives. I think, yeah, I would
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: hate to be inside their minds. So, yeah, I think
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: that's what I've learnt, really. At the time, you just think,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: my world is ending and how am I going to
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: get through it? But you do slowly, day by day.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: So I guess, yeah, just a message for everyone would
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: be Be honest with yourself, lean on your people, know
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: that you'll be okay. Maybe not, you know, today or tomorrow, but,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: you know, every single day you just feel a tiny
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: little bit better. Once you've gone through it yourself, you
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: realise that you're not alone and there's so many people
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: going through the same thing and dealing with infidelity and
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: children and, yeah, I guess just hanging in there and
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: just knowing that, you know, you can create a beautiful
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: life regardless of what's happened to you.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Everyone Has an Ex is a Minty Media production and
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mamma Mia Network. This interview was
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: conducted and the episode written and narrated by me, Georgia Love,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a story
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: you'd like to share, email us at everyonehasanex at mintymedia.com.au.
• 43:23
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• 43:30
  Speaker 1: next episode.