Latest / Awoken Game Club Podcast / Neon White

Transcript

Neon White · Awoken Game Club Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: To the Awoken Game Club What's up Patrick?
0:03
SPEAKER_00: What's going on man?
0:05
SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to speedrun this Awoken Game Club for May?
0:09
I'm ready to discard this game from my life No I'm kidding I
0:14
had a good time but
0:15
thinking of discarding soul cards I'm ready to discard The time
0:21
that I played this
0:22
SPEAKER_00: game like speedrunning is not my jam so I'm ready to talk about that
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, that was one of my questions was, are you a speedrunner?
0:32
But before we get into it,
0:34
Awoken Game Club is a monthly video game book club.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: We play indie games,
0:39
SPEAKER_01: we debrief,
0:40
we have fun Follow us on Substack for notifications to see
0:43
Patrick's art and chat
0:45
SPEAKER_01: with us Next month's game is Mixtape,
0:48
which we're very excited to play And each and every Awoken Game
0:51
Club episode is
0:52
SPEAKER_01: going to be full of spoilers So today we're talking about Neon White,
0:55
the game for May Treat these like a monthly book club where all
1:00
the attendees have
1:00
SPEAKER_01: had their time And then you can always come back,
1:03
SPEAKER_01: the episode is evergreen With that,
1:06
SPEAKER_01: let's get into it
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Who picked this game?
1:10
SPEAKER_01: How did we play it?
1:12
SPEAKER_00: I think I offered it on the table and you picked it And you had,
1:16
SPEAKER_00: from what I recall from the conversation,
1:18
SPEAKER_00: a reason that you picked this game Yeah,
1:21
SPEAKER_01: but before we share that,
1:23
SPEAKER_01: how did it enter your orbit?
1:26
Because I think it came out in 2022,
1:28
it's not like a current event or anything like that
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's a strange overlap for me.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: I follow a YouTuber.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Listeners might know him as Iron Pineapple.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: He kind of just reviews mostly soul-like games,
1:44
but he's kind of evolved into just reviewing cool games that
1:48
tickle his fancy.
1:49
And games that interest me on his channel,
1:52
I typically write them down somewhere.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: And so this one was always in the back of my head, and I just figured...
2:00
we haven't done a speed running type of game and I didn't
2:03
particularly think you
2:05
would pick this one and I threw it in there along with some
2:08
others and you were
2:10
like holy smokes I like neon white and I was I did like the
2:14
white blinking man Jeff
2:15
SPEAKER_00: and I was like okay I guess we're playing neon white
2:18
That's actually really funny because the Blinking Man gif is
2:23
Drew Scanlon from
2:24
Giant Bomb which is a games media website and the Giant Bomb
2:30
Game of the Year
2:30
awards from 2022 they talked about this game heavily which is
2:36
why I know so much
2:38
about it so yeah that's a funny full circle That's an amazing
2:42
full circle moment
2:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: because when this game came out,
2:47
SPEAKER_01: I knew it was the follow-up to Donut County,
2:50
SPEAKER_01: which is a game,
2:51
SPEAKER_01: the first game that I actually played with my partner,
2:53
SPEAKER_01: a very cute raccoon.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: What's the game where you play as the ball and roll the whole town?
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Super Monkey Ball or Katamari Darmacy.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Donut County was like a Katamari-like, and it's cute.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: So this was like a very big
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Departure for Ben Esposito who is the I guess the director for this game
3:17
Interesting Yeah and then Super Monkey Ball probably you
3:22
mentioned that probably
3:23
the last and only speedrunning game I've ever played slash
3:28
loved How about you?
3:31
I don't particularly have any love for speedrunning or time
3:34
trials Honestly the
3:36
times that I remember doing it that because there was not much
3:40
else available to me
3:41
SPEAKER_00: was in Crash Bandicoot
3:43
like the other thing you had to do to get 100% in that game was
3:46
do the time trials
3:47
and they stressed me out this game stressed me out this game
3:53
also I think as we
3:55
realize our mortal coils kind of hurt my hand just by how much
4:00
I was white
4:02
knuckling all that being said I did have a good time with it
4:06
but that's my only
4:06
SPEAKER_01: love for speed gaming yeah maybe like
4:14
Racing the Penguin in Super Mario 64 I'm trying to get like
4:18
what are some white
4:19
knuckle kind of mini time things I do love Games Done Quick
4:26
which is the kind of
4:28
twice a year charity stream where the speedrunning community
4:30
comes together and I
4:32
definitely respect the hustle out of speedrunners and then I
4:37
watch the speedrunning
4:39
SPEAKER_01: history videos there's like a prominent YouTuber
4:43
that does like history of Mario Tennis speedrun and somehow
4:47
like it's like full of
4:48
drama and intrigue and I respect it in the way that
4:52
speedrunners are like kind of
4:53
like people in esports where they're just doing it at a high
4:55
level for the love of
4:57
the game yeah speedrunners are kind of quirky though because
5:00
they'll speedrun games
5:01
that are not speedrunning games yes they'll speedrun just like
5:06
anything honestly
5:07
SPEAKER_01: that you give them absolutely yeah
5:11
so what do you think so did you just choose it just because
5:16
this was featured on as
5:19
a close contender for the 2022 you just want to see what the
5:22
hype was about I
5:23
always thought it looked fun when I watched gameplay of it it
5:28
was probably on my
5:28
Steam wishlist for years and years and years I must have took
5:33
it off at some point
5:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it was on at this point I think
5:39
SPEAKER_01: It's another one of those classic games where I'm like, that looks fun.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: I need a little bit of motivation to try it.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: And here you were.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess just overall impressions.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed it.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: I liked it quite a bit.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: I felt like that even though there are white-knuckle elements...
6:03
So I will say I liked the first half of the game more in that
6:08
the levels were
6:08
SPEAKER_01: shorter,
6:09
SPEAKER_01: so you get more respite and it doesn't feel so intense.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: Today, I did not finish the game.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: I was playing today against the second Neon Green fight, which is like...
6:28
in the big castle in the sky and I my that was like the first
6:33
time my hand was
6:33
SPEAKER_01: really hurting because I was just like trying to lock in for these like
6:37
multi-minute like squeeze squeezing the controller vest so I
6:42
will say that the the
6:44
whimsy and the fun and the like counter-strike surfing vibes
6:49
were great the first
6:50
SPEAKER_01: half and then the second half uh when it just kept getting
6:55
more turnt up and the gunplay became more prominent I would say
6:59
it appealed less to
7:00
me yeah I think I agree my my reason when I didn't necessarily
7:07
enjoy the second
7:08
SPEAKER_00: half is actually very similar where
7:12
I didn't enjoy the longer elements and some of that was
7:14
actually not necessarily
7:15
for the level completion although I did have a note in my make
7:19
it better part where
7:21
the green boss fights were just like a little bit of a drag
7:24
they sucked yeah I
7:26
hated both of them uneven item pickups the speed and then the
7:32
occasional just like
7:33
actual hard card requirement I just felt stranded and yeah not
7:39
so great yeah I
7:43
Um What was I about to say Oh and you played this all on
7:47
Playstation right?
7:48
SPEAKER_01: I did So I will say like
7:52
I'm pretty sure when this game first came out there was no
7:54
controller support I
7:56
played this game both on mouse and keyboard and on the Steam
7:59
Deck I played it more
8:00
on the Steam Deck because it's just more accessible for my life
8:05
but this is
8:05
definitely a mouse and keyboard game especially when the
8:10
gunplay starts to matter
8:12
at all like precise shooting and dipping the cursor around on
8:16
the Steam Deck I
8:17
SPEAKER_01: found it to be a bit annoying yeah
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought the some of the auto aim was very forgiving.
8:24
I do think where it fell short and got frustrating is when
8:28
there were and this
8:28
SPEAKER_00: happened often a lot of clumps of enemies.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
8:31
SPEAKER_00: like if I needed to shoot the barrel,
8:34
SPEAKER_00: especially if I'm jumping on top of the barrel,
8:36
SPEAKER_00: and there's a lot of enemies around it,
8:37
SPEAKER_00: sometimes I would miss overshoot undershoot.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: And that was a little bit frustrating.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: And then I do think,
8:45
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
8:45
SPEAKER_00: I actually also thought that there were moments,
8:48
SPEAKER_00: especially with the shotgun power up.
8:50
yeah I just could not hit the right angle and that was a little
8:54
frustrating so you
8:57
did you finish it I did I finished it a good bit I got the true
9:02
ending I for the
9:05
most part and this is some of the gripes that I was leading to
9:08
earlier the first
9:09
SPEAKER_00: half I really tried to get everything at least a gold medal
9:14
got all the gifts and but the second half as the levels got
9:17
longer and especially
9:18
the gifts I will say for the first half I I wrought for the
9:23
lack of a better word
9:24
and or me choosing to not choose a better word I raw dogged the
9:28
first half of the
9:30
gifts as in I very intentionally explored which basically meant
9:35
resetting a lot
9:36
SPEAKER_00: because some of those gifts were in difficult places and you just
9:40
even exploring you had to burn soul cards just to get a
9:44
different angle and that
9:46
was enjoyable for the first half but like you said as the
9:49
levels got longer and
9:50
more complex no one wants to spend three minutes exploring and
9:55
then just having to
9:57
give up because you don't have enough soul cards to like
10:00
continue the level or
10:01
SPEAKER_00: continue exploring so I gave up and just ended up guiding the gift part
10:07
That's so funny like just the how differently we play games is
10:12
like crazy I mean
10:15
it's just always like I should expect it but I did not get a
10:19
single gift I did not
10:23
I did not engage with a single word of dialogue or a single
10:30
part of the hub that
10:31
was not redeeming my heavenly ticket and then going on more
10:35
missions I just
10:37
SPEAKER_01: ignored all of that.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, completely.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: That fight,
10:43
SPEAKER_01: that second Neon fight,
10:44
SPEAKER_01: I just kept,
10:45
SPEAKER_01: I played it for probably like 10,
10:47
SPEAKER_01: 15 minutes today at least.
10:48
I just kept getting to like three-fourths of the way through it
10:51
and then you get up
10:52
on that platform and there's like the moving single kill death
10:56
beam at the bottom
10:57
and a bunch of like people shooting at you at the top and I
11:01
just kept dying like
11:03
SPEAKER_01: within like two seconds of getting up there and I'm like,
11:07
I'm exhausted like give me a checkpoint like I just want to go
11:09
I'm not even
11:10
learning from my mistake because I just keep kind of insta
11:13
dying and I know that I
11:15
would eventually figure it out and finish it but I was like man
11:18
we're recording
11:19
later today I'm good like I don't need to see further but
11:23
what's past that point so
11:24
that I think where I'm at I think I completed mission nine or
11:28
ten and it's like two
11:30
SPEAKER_01: days left until judgment like what happens after that second boss fight
11:34
So that's a good question you the book of life is pulled from
11:39
your hands violet
11:41
neon violet is kind of she betrays you and maybe she already
11:46
did I don't fully
11:47
remember but the book of life gives you one more soul card
11:50
which is the most OP one
11:52
and it's basically like a flash or a blink that's unlimited
11:56
recharges so it
11:58
actually kind of not I won't say necessarily trivializes the
12:01
game because I think
12:01
SPEAKER_00: the levels designed after that are
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good to know.
12:32
It felt like the most hardest and most frustrating level by a
12:35
good margin.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
12:38
And I feel like even after that part where I kept dying,
12:40
I think his health bar was like 25%.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: I think there was going to be more past that part.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: If you're in the air with those platforms,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: if that's where you got,
12:49
SPEAKER_00: I think there's like two phases of that.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: So I did not like that fight either.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: I almost like...
12:58
So the first two missions were very fun for me because after
13:03
each mission we have a
13:05
mutual friend Alex I guess played this game like I guess I
13:09
don't know if he bought
13:09
SPEAKER_01: it and and he I was scorer
13:13
after every run I would see what his time was and it was like a
13:16
little bit of a
13:16
carrot to try and beat his time or just out of curiosity wonder
13:20
what his time was I
13:22
feel like the most fun I probably could have had with this game
13:25
and I probably
13:26
won't go back to it just because of life not because I don't
13:28
want to is just like
13:30
on the first three or four missions just score leaderboard
13:37
chasing like I just
13:38
found those missions to be so fun and I find the like getting
13:42
the ace medals and
13:44
beating your friends and getting top 100,000 on the leaderboard
13:47
or whatever it is
13:48
SPEAKER_01: that's like to me where this game shines the
13:51
the story the boss bites the I even felt like even though a lot
13:57
of the later soul
13:58
cards and more complicated levels like justified themselves I
14:04
didn't want them like
14:06
I did not want to when I start a level and I see I have to kill
14:10
like 48 demons I'm
14:12
SPEAKER_01: like
14:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: I just kind of want to jump and glide and hop and shoot around the map.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to shoot 48 demons.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: No, I agree with the chasing and the comparisons.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: It is a shame we had different platforms.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: We could have had a lot of fun chasing each other's high scores.
14:34
Just be like,
14:34
let's focus on one 10 thing mission and let's just battle each
14:38
other.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: So I had one
14:42
it's actually not even a friend I don't particularly know this
14:44
person but I think
14:45
through our mutual friend Nick one of his friends I think added
14:49
me on PlayStation
14:51
and this guy got a platinum trophy or platinum time on every
14:56
single one and I just
14:57
could not beat him an ace on all of them oh my gosh and there
15:01
was one level I beat
15:03
it because he clearly beat the whole game and one level where I
15:07
beat him and I did
15:08
SPEAKER_00: have the like pathetic
15:12
Meanwhile every other score he's beaten me but the one time I
15:15
beat him I was just
15:16
like I'm even good at this game That's awesome Yeah like I
15:22
think that if I was like
15:23
maybe younger and like couldn't afford to buy another game or
15:28
didn't have a backlog
15:29
SPEAKER_01: or like back in the day when
15:32
You bought a game that was $60 and you'd buy another game the
15:35
next month.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: I would enjoy going back to this game.
15:39
I think it is very replayable if you really enjoy the mechanics
15:46
and you enjoy
15:47
SPEAKER_01: speedrunning and you've got some carrot on a stick of people to beat.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: So I do think this game is really good in that aspect.
15:54
yeah I think also especially if we're talking about biting and
15:58
chewing and more
15:59
into it I think the the gift hunting I did enjoy because it was
16:04
a part where you
16:04
could express a little bit off the beaten path and even like
16:09
intentionally slow
16:10
down how you play and for the most part the gifts if you
16:14
replayed a level they were
16:16
out in the open like you could see them they'd be like on the
16:19
top of the building
16:21
SPEAKER_00: and
16:22
Like I'd mentioned that first quarter to first half,
16:24
you could piece together what you needed.
16:27
Like,
16:27
okay,
16:28
if I need to get up there,
16:29
I'll probably need at least two yellow cards.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: I'll need a blue card.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: And then you would back,
16:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:34
you would puzzle it together when you could save from using the
16:38
card here,
16:38
SPEAKER_00: doing a shortcut here to not burn that card.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And that was actually really
16:43
really rewarding but just like I said earlier when those levels
16:48
just got longer you
16:49
just couldn't justify the exploration component because you
16:53
can't it took too long
16:56
and then sometimes when the gifts were too well hidden kind of
17:01
like in blueprints
17:02
the first or the second time I looked it up I was like alright
17:06
well the dam's
17:06
broken YouTube video is now all in my feeds and I'm referring
17:11
to it all the time
17:13
completely yeah it's funny I knew there was something going on
17:17
there I knew there
17:17
was like collectibles I'm like I don't care I just want to yeah
17:20
I am like I I think
17:22
I played it for like yeah I just I wanted to see as much of the
17:25
game as I could I
17:26
did like a decent amount of replaying especially if I saw that
17:32
I was close to the
17:32
ace medal or if I saw that I was close to a friend score or I
17:37
just really enjoyed
17:38
SPEAKER_01: the level I felt like I oh I saw like if it's like 26 seconds
17:43
and you realize that you could have skipped one section it
17:46
feels like I'll just
17:47
replay it and in 20 seconds I'll have improved my score it was
17:50
like a nice feedback
17:51
loop versus like a three minute level where you're just kind of
17:55
like and I don't
17:55
even think it was three minutes even like one minute 20 seconds
17:58
feels like a very
17:59
long time when you're playing it yeah I think that's a good
18:02
point what do you what
18:04
other components do you think are important for a good speedrun
18:08
time trial game I
18:10
SPEAKER_00: do think the short level is really good is a good one
18:13
Yeah I think like it's almost like a puzzle game or a deck
18:18
building game where
18:20
there's a happy path but when you feel like even though the
18:25
designer has created
18:28
SPEAKER_01: the sandbox when you feel like you're outsmarting the designer and you've
18:32
discovered a shortcut or a hack or like you feel like you're
18:36
breaking the game or
18:38
subverting the designer's expectations that's what makes it
18:42
good to me like a fun
18:44
speedrunning game where even though I think this is a
18:47
masterclass in design and I
18:49
SPEAKER_01: think that
18:51
SPEAKER_01: 80-90% of those hacks,
18:54
SPEAKER_01: shortcuts,
18:54
SPEAKER_01: aversions,
18:55
SPEAKER_01: whatever they're called,
18:56
SPEAKER_01: I think Ben Esposito was very aware of them and very much intentional.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: But I thought that that was when I was having the most fun,
19:05
SPEAKER_01: is when I would be like,
19:06
SPEAKER_01: oh,
19:06
SPEAKER_01: I didn't need to jump there,
19:07
SPEAKER_01: I could have skipped that platform,
19:09
SPEAKER_01: or I could have actually reloaded this gun and used it later to save.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Really, problem solving.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: It's not just white-knuckled
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Aiming skill it's problem solving for me when it was at its best agreed
19:23
I think that also paired with just a fast restart I think like
19:28
Super Meat Boy this
19:30
game if you flub it which you can flub it a lot you're just
19:33
like quick restart go
19:35
go I just need I almost if I can't I can't sit in my failure
19:39
too long so I just
19:40
gotta try again completely yeah like I remember we used we play
19:46
Apex Legends a lot
19:47
SPEAKER_01: and when they introduced the like
19:51
re-cue immediately after you die that was like it didn't save
19:55
that much time but it
19:56
felt better it felt good yeah you're just like get me back in
20:00
there like let me
20:00
scrub that from my memory it was kind of funny I was reading
20:03
the Wikipedia and I
20:05
guess Ben Esposito finished Donut County in 2018 and around
20:11
that time the roguelike
20:12
deck building game Slay the Spire had just released and created
20:16
a wave of card
20:16
SPEAKER_01: based games and I think it is
20:19
I mean obviously State of Spire is one of my favorite games of
20:22
all time and I just find it
20:25
SPEAKER_01: infinitely fascinating,
20:26
SPEAKER_01: impressive,
20:27
hilarious how much it inspired of course there's a million
20:32
roguelite deck building
20:35
games on Steam but the fact that it inspired this anime
20:38
speedrunning game is
20:40
hilarious but apparently the first prototype was a card based
20:46
arena shooter so this
20:49
SPEAKER_01: game originally was a shooter it's like Frag Punk
20:53
yeah remember that game we tried fragpunk I do and he said that
20:57
like the randomness
20:58
of acquiring the cards just was kind of too you couldn't
21:02
combine like fast-paced
21:03
shooting with red like the cognitive load of like which cards
21:08
you're holding in
21:08
your hand um and that's when he decided to make the cards fixed
21:12
and then it kind of
21:12
evolved into this speed running game which I think is like a
21:15
brilliant pivot it's
21:16
SPEAKER_01: like a super cool pivot um
21:19
I think that's a good point and also speaking of just like the
21:22
mental bandwidth and
21:23
as you're white knuckling I really enjoyed it that there
21:27
weren't too many instances
21:29
where I had to fumble jumping and swapping my soul card for
21:34
discard it could have
21:37
gotten really annoying tedious and annoying and I just was like
21:40
this is I know he's
21:41
being nice or they're being nice by like blessing us with this
21:45
design as I jump
21:46
SPEAKER_00: forward
21:48
like the blue card and the yellow card aren't gonna screw me
21:51
over as I pick one up
21:52
like it's just always in the right order exactly I will say for
21:57
fun the gifts are
22:00
an interesting point did you see what the gifts eventually like
22:03
give you no no
22:05
So the gifts obviously they do the dialogue which I personally
22:10
did find the game to
22:11
be funny and charming I thought the writing was actually there
22:15
was a few times
22:16
where I laughed not even ironically but the gifting unlocked
22:21
side quests for each
22:23
of the original neons and each one was thematic so for example
22:29
yellow neons his
22:32
SPEAKER_00: were levels designed where you couldn't use the discard function
22:35
So they were all normal jumping and guns,
22:38
but it was almost kind of like Doom.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: You're just like playing a Doom level.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: The red neons was only the soul discarding.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: So it was all levels that were just hyper-focused on discarding.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: It's like playing Super Smash with all items turned on.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: All items turned on.
23:00
and then the super fun one which was awful is Violet's hers
23:05
were just very
23:06
intentionally punishing and that was the one instance where she
23:10
would give you
23:11
cards in the wrong direction there would basically be these
23:14
tiny windows and so I
23:16
did have a note here that I did love that the various
23:19
challenges from each Neon was
23:21
like on brand with her character because Violet was like crazy
23:24
Yellow was like a
23:25
SPEAKER_00: bro and Red was just like um
23:29
you know just suave and cool but I did find Violet's punishing
23:34
runs I would
23:35
recommend honestly just looking like watching a YouTube video
23:38
because they are
23:39
genuinely terrible like that's awesome to play and they're just
23:43
like Jesus Christ
23:45
SPEAKER_00: there were so many times where I was just like God damn it
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Seems like a really fun game to make as a designer.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: You get to scope it to these fun little levels with these little ideas.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to worry about all these other things.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: You can introduce cool soul cards.
24:07
You can express yourself with the gifts and the puzzles or with
24:10
the thematic levels
24:12
SPEAKER_01: like you're describing.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: I also feel like even if you're not a speedrunning fan...
24:18
if you're just interested in level design especially 3D level
24:21
design I feel like
24:23
this and you want inspiration this game is like probably the
24:26
gold standard I can't
24:28
think of like any other game or thing that would introduce you
24:33
to all of these
24:33
different vignettes of cool level design and traversal and
24:40
puzzles just like back
24:42
to back back to back for the whole time you're playing it I
24:45
think that's very cool
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
24:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I would have finished it if it was only white knuckling,
24:51
SPEAKER_00: if it wasn't draped in this kind of like anime style,
24:55
SPEAKER_00: both visually and even like the visual novel component of it.
25:00
That kind of really helped me get through and buy into the
25:04
actual speedrunning
25:05
SPEAKER_00: part,
25:05
SPEAKER_00: which I don't typically enjoy engaging in.
25:09
yeah definitely I really feel like it gets more white knuckling
25:13
towards the end too
25:15
like I really feel like the first few missions are like easing
25:18
you in and I thought
25:21
a lot about the surfing in Counter-Strike where you're just
25:24
kind of like which I
25:26
never played I just watched videos but like it feels or super
25:30
monkey ball even it
25:31
just feels good to feel the weight of your character and be
25:35
flying through the air
25:36
SPEAKER_01: and double jump like double jumping feels good like
25:39
SPEAKER_01: in every game that it's in.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And in this game, it's core to the whole gameplay.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Did you find that most of the mechanics and mobility felt fair?
25:51
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: I think that they're all very forgiving.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: If you finish your shotgun discard or your...
26:04
Dash,
26:04
Godspeed,
26:05
Discard,
26:05
anywhere near an enemy,
26:06
that enemy's just gonna die.
26:07
But the one thing I did not like was the demon boxes where you
26:14
kill them and they shoot.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: The mimics?
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the mimics.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like a treasure chest.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I just found them to be like just they exist to kill your flow.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Unless you really there's a few where like
26:35
you gotta just shoot them at a better time so you don't lose
26:38
your flow but there's
26:39
just many times where you have to like jump or duck or like I
26:43
don't get to just
26:44
keep running forward because of these stupid mimic boxes I
26:47
didn't enjoy the mimic
26:49
boxes really ever I was like just we don't need these yeah
26:54
that's amazing no I
26:56
agree I didn't love them I died to them way more than I thought
27:00
I would like more
27:00
SPEAKER_00: than
27:01
Violets like Tripwires which I did die to a lot for those two I
27:05
like the Tripwires
27:06
more yeah I like the Tripwires more too I in terms of the soul
27:11
cards I thought they
27:13
SPEAKER_01: were all pretty good I thought that the
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Zipline 1 was cool but I didn't need a lot of it.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Flying through the air,
27:27
ziplining felt very fun but I'm glad they saved it until later
27:34
and I don't need to
27:37
SPEAKER_01: do a lot of ziplining.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: I preferred the movement the other movement in the game.
27:44
I think for me when that one got introduced that's when I
27:49
started falling off of
27:51
gift hunting because I will say whether it be the rocket jump
27:55
component with the
27:56
normal shooting plus the zip line it basically just like opened
28:01
the whole level up
28:02
SPEAKER_01: as on the table and that really felt annoying because I was like
28:07
okay I know you're showing me the gift it's in this box like
28:11
right at the starting
28:12
level but dude I have no idea how to get there like you're
28:15
you've given me like
28:16
three bazookas in the beginning and basically I'm gonna sit
28:20
here just trying to
28:21
rocket jump because you can rocket jump up the whole building
28:24
if you have enough
28:25
ammo and I just felt this is very yes this is probably the most
28:29
mobility that we've
28:30
SPEAKER_00: been gifted and freedom and expression but also you've
28:34
You've opened up the whole level and I don't want to sit here
28:38
for two hours just
28:40
trying to scale up a tower only to fail and then I guess I have
28:45
to start over.
28:45
I feel like both the Rocket Jump and the Stomp were never going
28:52
to be my favorite
28:54
SPEAKER_01: soul cards because they in many cases require you to look straight down.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: I find it to be like...
29:02
SPEAKER_01: Not as fun.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I love just flying forward, dashing forward, jumping forward.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: But I found it's a little bit more disorienting and flow.
29:16
I think my eyes rolled to the back of my head whenever I would
29:19
miss a green jump
29:20
SPEAKER_01: and just fly down to the clouds.
29:40
that's probably the deepest eye rolls of and then like an angry
29:44
reset for sure yeah
29:46
SPEAKER_01: I definitely got the achievement of stopping off the edge of the map yeah
29:51
absolutely yeah I really liked the I really liked the Godspeed
29:57
the one where you
29:57
SPEAKER_01: just dash forward like I just like I love like
30:01
The best feeling in the world is hitting one of the bouncy
30:04
balloon demons,
30:06
like bouncing up all weightless and then dashing straight into
30:09
another one and then
30:10
SPEAKER_01: double jumping up to a ledge.
30:13
And even though there's nothing hard about that,
30:16
you feel like you barely made the ledge.
30:20
You're like,
30:20
I had to bounce,
30:21
dash,
30:22
double jump,
30:23
and then I cleared the ledge.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And it just feels awesome.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: It feels really good.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: For sure and I do think if we're talking going back to what makes a good
30:32
speedrunning game is obviously catching the physics right the
30:37
momentum like that
30:38
just needs to feel good and that can really help I mean that's
30:42
probably why people
30:42
love Mario like they get how Mario can move and it's consistent
30:47
and typically that
30:49
brings back to like did it feel fair and most of the time it
30:51
did feel fair
30:52
SPEAKER_00: especially the godspeed and the double jump like if I miss those
30:56
yeah that's on me it gets frustrating for me with the shotgun
31:00
red one I did not I
31:02
just felt like I don't understand this power up in the range
31:05
yeah I enjoyed like
31:09
SPEAKER_01: What would you call the discard for that?
31:12
SPEAKER_01: It's like a falcon punch.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: It's literally our foxes up B.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Or Kirby's up B. Yeah.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Or like where you turn into a tornado in a certain direction.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed doing that into a balloon or through a wall.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: I thought that felt good.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed...
31:31
SPEAKER_01: I liked the shotgun.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I liked having a big enemy and being...
31:38
on one of those water breezeways and just like rolling up to it
31:42
and just like
31:43
shooting at the last second and just having it explode right in
31:45
front of me.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: The gun part of it is great.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Trying to shoot at the range is super annoying too though.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:55
I noticed a really big drop off in the Steam achievements per
31:58
mission which was
31:59
SPEAKER_01: kind of interesting.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: So like I completed mission nine and
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Let me go to the achievements.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: So like the number of people that completed mission two is 72%.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: So like 28% of people
32:25
didn't want to continue which I guess like that must mean that
32:28
speed running is
32:29
just not everyone's cup of tea like this is this is like an
32:32
overwhelmingly positive
32:34
game so people really like it and it's sold a ton of copies
32:38
like it's I mean the
32:40
SPEAKER_01: leaderboards had hundreds of thousands of people and I just find it very
32:43
fascinating that after two missions the first two which I find
32:46
like to just be a
32:47
SPEAKER_01: blast that 28% of people are like I'm I'm good I'm good boss thanks
32:52
SPEAKER_01: And then by the end,
32:54
like Mission 5 is 50% of people have dropped off That's
33:02
fascinating And then by
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Mission 9,
33:04
SPEAKER_01: I think,
33:05
SPEAKER_01: which I completed,
33:06
SPEAKER_01: only 32% of people have that achievement
33:12
which is weird because normally the sweatier the game the more
33:17
people actually
33:18
SPEAKER_01: finish it like if you look at the Elden Ring achievements the Elden Ring
33:22
achievements are like insane how many people finish that game
33:25
right I'm like I
33:27
don't know I'm a little bit surprised I don't really have like
33:30
a theory or like I
33:32
don't know why I think it's interesting I just think it's
33:34
interesting yeah that is
33:35
a very interesting because especially also because Elden Ring
33:39
is for sure more
33:40
SPEAKER_00: mainstream
33:41
and like more people what I would consider more casual people
33:45
buy it and open it
33:46
because I do think you have to actually open the game for for
33:51
the achievements to
33:51
hit just not buying it but even then the honoring completion
33:56
achievements are very
33:57
high and this game it does feel like if you know you know like
34:02
what you're getting
34:02
SPEAKER_00: into so yeah I don't know if 30% is a big is a big chunk or not
34:09
I feel like I played it for four and a half hours roughly I
34:13
really I wasn't chasing
34:15
gifts I was just enjoying the new mechanics and I really
34:19
replayed like 10% of the
34:21
levels 20% and for 70% of people to have fallen off I was
34:26
surprised by that yeah
34:28
SPEAKER_01: but it reviews really well and I think it is like a beloved game
34:34
I thought the medals also felt really fair and balanced which I
34:39
really appreciated
34:39
like they must have done a lot of playtesting I agree there
34:43
were a few times where
34:44
I got a bronze and then especially when I had that one friend
34:48
that had played the
34:48
game and you know he has all the ace medals and I'm like my
34:53
dude the level is only
34:54
SPEAKER_00: a minute and 20 seconds how did you shave 40 seconds off the time
34:59
yeah and um I think uh I think it's just really really tight
35:05
and I will say that's
35:06
a good point you brought it up the more you play the level you
35:09
will eventually
35:10
unlock the hints and it will tell you where the shortcut is so
35:14
the game is also
35:15
very accessible but even if you don't use the shortcuts you can
35:19
typically get the
35:20
SPEAKER_00: gold
35:21
by just playing the game straight faced it's only if you're
35:24
chasing the aces where
35:26
you might need that shortcut or take that weird angle with the
35:29
gun and bypass a
35:31
whole part which I I'm here for yeah yeah I feel like like I
35:37
would say maybe 50% of
35:38
SPEAKER_01: my what's it called flashing and um
35:43
Bouldering or climbing is when you like the first time you
35:45
climb a wall without
35:46
ever practicing it I would say like 50% of the time I got gold
35:50
30% I got silver and
35:51
maybe 20% I got bronze maybe more like 10% bronze the first
35:55
time that I played it
35:57
and every time I got silver and bronze I felt like oh yeah that
36:00
felt like a silver
36:01
run or that felt like a bronze run yeah oh good I got a silver
36:04
run and I don't
36:06
SPEAKER_01: think I I think I maybe got an ace on my first run once and it was
36:13
you could tell some very lucky like I panicked and something
36:16
lucky happened and so
36:18
those felt everything just felt it felt fun to chase the medals
36:23
which at the end of
36:24
the day are arbitrary cutoffs that the developers set and I
36:27
think if you set those
36:28
SPEAKER_01: cutoffs poorly then that would make the game a lot less fun and then the
36:35
SPEAKER_01: accessibility like you said is really good because
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Um...
37:05
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of trophies,
37:07
SPEAKER_00: I did think about platinum-ing this,
37:09
SPEAKER_00: but the way I understood,
37:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it was like a 6 or an 8 out of 10 difficulty,
37:15
SPEAKER_00: and you had to do the gift bonus levels,
37:19
SPEAKER_00: like all of them,
37:20
SPEAKER_00: without dying.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, absolutely not.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: And so I gave up on the actual platinum trophy.
37:27
which is freeing for me I think it's a good thing because I can
37:31
just be like oh I
37:32
actually get to naturally enjoy a game I'm glad we're playing
37:36
mixtape next month
37:38
Jesus I know you need a break from platinum if there is a
37:43
platinum I'm sure there
37:44
is I'm sure it's not sweaty yeah what did we play last month
37:49
yeah pretty sweaty
37:50
SPEAKER_01: games so far the last few last few months
37:54
yeah uh yeah i think that covers my notes i i wrote the gunplay
38:02
and shooting
38:02
becomes more prominent later on fps elements are taking a
38:05
bigger role hard to
38:07
SPEAKER_01: balance the drive to progress versus the perfecting each level um
38:13
There was like a tug and a pull there where I like I kind of
38:15
want to try that one a
38:16
couple more times but like I also want to see what's next so I
38:19
think that's where
38:20
like the replayability comes into play I really liked the level
38:25
before the worst
38:26
level we're running the temple with no enemies no enemies oh
38:31
this is total change
38:32
SPEAKER_01: of pace and feels very spooky and cool it does it did um
38:40
some level like there were a lot of highlight levels but like
38:43
they're very hard to
38:44
remember and reference I really liked the level where you're
38:49
falling down a shaft
38:50
shooting the shotgun just like a really deep shaft yeah the end
38:56
of mission six
38:57
which I think is called race baby or something where you you're
39:02
racing the the
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the tethers?
39:08
SPEAKER_01: The tethers?
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Violet's tethers?
39:10
SPEAKER_00: That was very cool.
39:11
That was probably my favorite level,
39:12
and I aced that level,
39:13
and it was just a blast.
39:16
That was a level where you're going forward,
39:18
full tilt,
39:19
guy speeding,
39:20
cutting corners.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: You needed every second, too.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: I loved that one.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, I think my favorite, shout out, Bouncy Demons.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Those are my favorite, the big balloon guys.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:34
I do think some of the obviously I know you weren't a fan of
39:38
the mimic I did like
39:39
how they could whether it be the mimic or even the shield guys
39:44
where you couldn't
39:45
shoot in and you had to physically enter and pop I did think
39:48
these were creative
39:49
ways to keep mixing it up and as you understood the mimics and
39:54
the bubble guys you
39:55
knew like what you had to do like whether it be okay I do have
39:58
to ground stop in
39:59
SPEAKER_00: there or
40:01
The laser guys that are charging up like there is this thrill
40:04
that you can't shoot them from.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: I hated them to bullet sponges.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the thrill of getting close to them in their bubble.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Jesus, here we go.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't hit me.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Don't hit me.
40:16
It's the worst feeling when you're at the end of a level and
40:20
all you have left is
40:21
your melee soul card and you have to kill one more guy and
40:26
you're slashing at him
40:27
SPEAKER_01: while he's charging up and you're just like,
40:29
SPEAKER_00: just die.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Also,
40:32
SPEAKER_00: when you die,
40:33
it's like a flatline noise and it feels bad and it sounds bad
40:37
and you're just like,
40:38
SPEAKER_00: time to run it back.
40:39
if you're using your melee at any point you probably should
40:42
just restart you've
40:43
lost you have lost but like I'm like let me let me finish yeah
40:50
cool do you have
40:52
anything else no maybe I know you didn't go through the whole
40:58
story but I think my
40:59
other maybe questions were I think we talked about our favorite
41:02
and least favorite
41:03
SPEAKER_00: power-ups but what about who is the best neon
41:08
which color it's hard I mean really I genuinely didn't read a
41:12
word of dialogue
41:13
which I think like was also primed a little bit in me by that
41:17
giant bomb coverage
41:18
where they they laughed about how they didn't care about the
41:21
story at all and they
41:22
SPEAKER_01: were just in it for the speed running but I think like
41:27
I still well one I'm like I don't have a ton of free time this
41:30
has been a busy
41:31
month but also after um Promise Pascot Agency I'm just like
41:36
nope nope nope I've
41:38
been here I've played this game before I'm good I'm here for
41:41
the I don't need any
41:43
chuckles just take me into the speedruns so I don't I don't
41:47
have I don't have no
41:49
like do you wanna is there any story that you could briefly
41:53
summarize for me
41:55
Uh not necessarily I mean it's just they were a family that did
41:59
crimes together all
42:01
five of them and had no idea yep there it is uh green was the
42:06
boss uh green took
42:08
him on one bad last job that went poorly got them all killed
42:12
and uh basically at
42:14
the end you like choose to forgive him in the true ending and
42:18
that's how everyone
42:19
SPEAKER_00: makes it to heaven and
42:21
Found Family everyone's got their own archetype very anime
42:26
archetypes so like if
42:27
you buy into that I think they're quite tickling I do agree it
42:32
is super anime and
42:35
that's not for everyone so I think that's even Iron Pineapple's
42:39
like his take was
42:41
he thought a lot of the dialogue was cringe which it was who's
42:44
your favorite um
42:48
I think I typically like probably red or white I like red or
43:00
white basically the
43:02
two main leads yeah there was so much going on in the hub that
43:08
I did not I kept
43:09
SPEAKER_01: going to the beach what do you do with the beach?
43:12
um so basically that's where uh green's gifts are if you
43:16
they're like super
43:18
extensions in the level like deep further hidden than gifts uh
43:23
and they that's how
43:24
you unlock green's backstory and so you throw coins into the
43:27
beach it's not great
43:31
okay not great nothing uh um the music was good I haven't
43:35
shouted out the music yet
43:37
SPEAKER_01: um
43:39
in particular the zipline levels I thought the music was like
43:43
super hype yeah
43:46
SPEAKER_01: cityscape cityscape vibes cool well looking forward to mixtape next month
43:56
I don't think it came out of nowhere I think people knew about
43:59
it but it got some
44:01
super good reviews and it's going to be fun to play something
44:03
super current and I
44:04
think something that's going to hit us right in the nostalgia I
44:10
think we're of that
44:10
era I think we've earned that I think we're very much the
44:14
target demographic I hope
44:16
so because every once in a while I think I'm in that and then I
44:20
have some older
44:20
SPEAKER_00: millennial or even Gen X fans that are like
44:23
you don't own that they barely think we're 90s kids and I'm
44:27
just like I don't know
44:30
I barely think Zoomers that were born in 97 are 90s kids and
44:33
they also claim 90s
44:34
kids so I always worry that could be true I know that there's a
44:38
lot of licensed
44:39
music in it so hopefully I have some reference points yeah well
44:48
cool man I hope you
44:51
SPEAKER_01: have a great rest of your day
44:53
Yeah man I'll see you in the next one I'll see you next time
44:57
Thank you for listening Much love