Latest / That Car Show / Cracking the Car Code with Derek Powell

Transcript

Cracking the Car Code with Derek Powell · That Car Show

0:00
Who's on your death watch right now, 2025?
0:03
Oh boy, oh boy. I mean, get me a Stalantis
0:08
dartboard and blindfold me. This week, automotive writer,
0:13
former Top Gear America producer and friend of the show Derek
0:17
Powell stops by Derek's an encyclopedia of arcane car
0:21
knowledge, the kind that can only be gleaned through a
0:23
childhood is spent with your nose buried in old car and
0:27
Driver magazines. We talk 80s cars, go deep into
0:30
Iacocca territory, and try to define what luxury will mean in
0:34
the future Automotive World. Derek and I are both GT4 owners,
0:38
but somehow that never comes up. Rejoice, Dan Pilling, who, by
0:41
the way, is off moving. But we'll be back next week.
0:45
Stay tuned. This is a fun one.
0:47
It's that car show. All right, Well, welcome back to
0:54
that car show. Ryan and I are here tonight and
0:58
we are very lucky to have my good friend Derek Powell with
1:01
us. Hi, Derek.
1:02
Hello, hello. Thanks for having me.
1:04
Thanks for joining us. And as everyone in the car world
1:08
knows, Derek Powell really needs no introduction.
1:10
As Lynn Woodward said, everybody knows Derek Powell, but I
1:15
thought I would share a couple of sort of tidbits about your
1:17
career and just sort of our friendship to kick things off.
1:21
Derek and I met at Matt Farah's watch party at the beginning of
1:24
last year and we both promptly forgot each other until we met
1:27
at Lynn's house again in the fall.
1:30
And then we really got to know each other.
1:32
We got to hang out at Aaron Robinson's house with Aaron and
1:34
Tina and Lynn and a bunch of other friends.
1:37
And like, we've been fast friends ever since.
1:41
Derek is a very talented writer. He's had a 20 year career in
1:44
commercial television and features.
1:46
He's been a producer on Top Gear America.
1:49
He has worked on campaigns for Acura, Audi, BMW, Infinity, Land
1:52
Rover and Ryan's favorite Porsche.
1:56
His writing has appeared in Auto Week, The Drive Car Driver,
1:59
Jalopnik Haggerty and Motor Trend and his documentary series
2:02
Coding the Car and Coding the Car, to explore the feature
2:06
future of software defined vehicles through the
2:08
collaboration of legacy car makers and tech companies around
2:12
the world. But when he's not working, he's
2:15
out at the racetrack, which we have talked about.
2:18
He loves going off roading and building demolition Derby cars.
2:22
But what really sets Derek apart for me is his authenticity.
2:26
He's a very good friend and his ability to find joy throughout
2:31
the day, which for the two of us means we're finding gremlins,
2:34
movie references and spotting Land Rovers, particularly
2:40
defenders and sports, and then Broncos in the wild.
2:44
Derek excels at honing in on what makes people smile and
2:48
celebrating those things, which is just a very small part of
2:52
what makes him such a gift to those who know him.
2:55
So I'm thrilled to hang out with him tonight and share you with
2:59
that car show audience. So thank you so much for joining
3:02
us. You are.
3:04
You are too kind. I'm glad this is audio only or
3:07
Elsie would see me. Homer Simpson into the shrubs.
3:11
But alas, it's not audio. Only Dirk if you know.
3:14
Oh no, hate to tell ya. But only on Spotify, so you're
3:17
you're safe. OK.
3:19
All right. Cool, so we will ask our
3:20
audience to give you a break. Don't watch the Spotify video
3:22
this week. Sometimes I forget to turn the
3:25
video on and it is. Right, right.
3:28
I'm. Glad I wore pants for the
3:29
podcast. Well yeah.
3:31
Geez, you guys. Well, you've been sitting down
3:34
so I'm not so sure. That was a hell of an intro.
3:38
Well, you know, he's a hell of a guy.
3:40
Right. Yeah, wow.
3:42
Thank you forever. I you know, when you put it that
3:45
way, my imposter syndrome goes down just a tiny, tiny bit.
3:49
I only speak the truth, buddy. Come on.
3:51
Yeah. Same same.
3:52
Stoked to have you with us. I know Ryan has a lot of
3:55
questions. So I think, Ryan, why don't you
3:57
kick it off? I do because I think you're
3:59
living the dream, right? And I know a lot of hard work
4:02
has gone, you know, into it. But but how'd you, you know,
4:05
how'd you dip your toes into this thing?
4:06
Like what was your taproot moment for cars and and then the
4:09
industry, I guess. Oh man, I mean how?
4:11
How far back do you want to? Go all the way back.
4:14
I know we're we grew up with car and driver and that probably had
4:16
something to do with it. Well, I yeah, that was that.
4:19
That's the thing. It's like car and driver was
4:22
kind of like my mainstay from 10 years old and just.
4:26
I made sure that my my parents renewed it every year and it
4:30
followed me to high school. I went to boarding school and
4:34
and made sure that the mailing address was changed and then to
4:37
college. And then when I moved, yeah,
4:40
every time I moved, that was like, the first thing I'm going
4:43
to change are the addresses for my car magazines and so to.
4:47
Those priorities? Yeah, yeah.
4:50
And, and so like, I guess the TLDR for the just the automotive
4:54
portion of it is that, you know, I, when I graduated from
4:59
college, I, I applied to all the car magazines.
5:02
And especially at that time in the, the late 90s before it, it
5:08
went digital, It was, it was a really tough nut to crack.
5:13
And I thought I had a leg up because I was the senior editor
5:17
to the newspaper and I put together this like 4 page color
5:21
cover letter of like all my car exploits.
5:24
I had just done Bridgestone winter driving school the year
5:26
prior. And so I did a little article on
5:29
that. And yeah, I thought it was super
5:33
cool. Nobody else did.
5:35
So, so I, I got a, a round of nose and, you know, after a
5:42
brief stint in New York City, I moved to Los Angeles in 98 and
5:49
just kind of fell into production.
5:52
You know, I've always been an avid reader.
5:55
There's this Dean Koontz book that I've always wanted to make
5:58
into a movie. And when I got into production,
6:01
I was like, oh, this is how you do it.
6:03
This is this is how you do it. And I was surrounded by super
6:07
smart people who had kind of like the same goals.
6:12
And, and so I, I kind of worked my way up through commercial
6:17
production, through a variety of production companies on staff.
6:21
And then I went freelance as a freelance writer.
6:24
And I found myself writing for a lot of car directors because you
6:32
know, when you're, when you're writing, when you're writing
6:35
pitches, it's, it's not just about, you know how good it
6:39
sounds. It's also about the knowledge
6:40
that you have behind it. And so because I was just, I,
6:44
I've been obsessed with cars my whole life.
6:46
It was kind of like, all right, this is, this is natural.
6:48
And so I could talk about the driving, I could talk about the
6:51
styling, I could talk about the experience behind the wheel.
6:54
And, and, and it just kind of, it continued to grow.
6:58
And along the way, I got my right my racing license and and
7:05
then one of my then one of my car directors bought Lindsay.
7:11
You'll love this. One of my car directors bought a
7:15
Land Rover Series 2A. Actually, I'm going to call him
7:19
out because I owe a lot to him. Synway Xavier and and also also
7:27
another just tremendously authentic person, just super
7:31
great guy and we can. Collect those.
7:34
Yeah, we really do. Yeah.
7:37
You know, my dad who's who's been in Pennsylvania for, you
7:42
know, since 1967 when he moved there, he was always worried
7:47
that it would come to Los Angeles and just kind of like
7:49
crumble or, you know, do what whatever people in Los Angeles
7:52
do. And I said, well, the the trick
7:55
is to just surround yourself with good people.
7:57
And so that's been my mantra ever since.
7:59
And so Sin Wei is, is, is one of those people.
8:03
And I've, I've known him for a million years as well.
8:06
And this was back when Twitter was a Twitter and be a fun place
8:13
to hang out. And I had also I had also
8:17
collected a lot of car people on Twitter.
8:20
It was just it was a fun place to hang out.
8:22
And, and I had tweeted a picture of the Land Rover Series 2A
8:29
being towed behind my Audi all Rd., which I know you have
8:34
plenty of questions about. And, and it was in response to
8:39
Graham Kozak, who used to be at auto week, Graham Kozak's tweet
8:43
about Land Rover Series 2 as and he, he wrote back and he's like,
8:48
is that yours? I said, no, it's Simway
8:50
Xavier's. And so Graham reached out to
8:52
Simway and said, you know, could you write a little piece on in
8:57
auto week about it? And Simway was like, no, I'm I,
9:02
I can take pictures, but I think Derek should write it.
9:04
And so that was my first published piece back in 2015.
9:10
And and then yeah, there's there are a couple of other steps, but
9:16
that's that was the first kind of like legit piece in all the
9:20
week and just things just kind of blossom from there.
9:23
And the rest is history. Yeah, that's amazing.
9:26
History, yeah. I think that's so emblematic of
9:29
the car world. I mean, it's like how many
9:31
things have unfolded because you happen to be standing physically
9:34
in a certain spot next to somebody or you happen to get
9:39
invited because your friend said, hey, we're doing this cool
9:41
thing and you meet somebody and like your whole life takes a
9:44
right turn in the best way. It's I.
9:48
Don't. Yeah.
9:49
And, and, and you and I have talked about that, you know, in
9:51
person, too. Or over text or the myriad ways
9:54
in which we communicate. Yeah, you know, just just.
9:58
Can we have going at once? Also, yeah, it's it's also about
10:02
like you and I have discussed about a lot of the support of
10:08
people in this industry and. Yeah, the people that are that
10:12
have been our champions and resources and it's like we
10:15
couldn't be where we are without these people.
10:18
And that's, I mean, that's one of the things I love about the
10:21
car world. Like when somebody says to me,
10:23
you know, I have a lot of like girlfriends that'll say to me
10:25
like, OK, like help me understand the car thing.
10:28
I don't get it. But you're into, it's like
10:29
what's like, obviously it's giving you something like help
10:33
me understand it. And I always I go, you know, the
10:36
cars are like the door opener. But immediately it becomes about
10:40
the people. And, you know, you were talking
10:42
about your dad's concern with coming to LA and, and I think
10:46
that's a fair concern. But I think what's so
10:48
interesting is that the genuine people, at least especially in
10:50
the car world, they show themselves pretty quickly and
10:54
so. Yeah, they sure do.
10:56
You get to choose, you know, who you're around.
11:00
And I think the genuine, authentic people find each other
11:02
pretty quickly too, because a lot of us were maybe the only
11:06
car kid growing up or, you know, we found our people later in the
11:10
car world. And so it's like, hey, I
11:12
recognize you. And then we're all happy to help
11:15
each other and you get to choose, You know, the people you
11:19
surround yourselves with are the the rising tide lifts all boats.
11:22
Like, that's one of the things I love about Lynn is that she's
11:24
very, you know, like, hey, it only benefits all of us if we
11:28
all succeed and there's plenty for everybody.
11:30
Like, let's go. We're going to do this.
11:33
Yeah, yeah. And that was just, it was that
11:36
was just a very formative and transformative time for me in
11:40
like 2015 to 2017. That was just kind of where
11:44
everything just started to just coalesce and and come together.
11:49
It's like I could give you a blow by blow account of all of
11:53
the opportunities and all of the people who have supported me
11:55
along the way. It's it's, but this is your show
11:58
and so. Maybe we'll do.
12:00
We'll do a Patreon episode for that, Yeah.
12:03
And then we can we'll. Go back.
12:06
What is what is it about cars, though?
12:08
Like, I don't think people who are into baseball have this same
12:11
kind of like camaraderie or, you know, there's just something
12:14
about every friend of mine is a car person, right?
12:18
And it wasn't always like that, but there's just to your point,
12:20
it's just there's an immediate you speak my language and I know
12:23
you're probably have a pretty good person, right, Right.
12:27
I don't know Bassem. You know, like Bassem described
12:30
it so well to me so concisely where he said it's shortcuts,
12:34
it's sidesteps and shortcuts, all of the small talk because,
12:37
you know, you have this major thing in common and you just get
12:40
into sort of like the meat of the friendship almost
12:43
immediately. You know, I mean, I think like,
12:46
Derek and I are a good example of that.
12:47
Like, we, we met once and forgot about it.
12:49
We met again and didn't have a chance to like really talk
12:52
because we were at a fun party. And that's how that goes.
12:55
And then when we saw each other at the dinner party, we ended up
12:58
sitting next to each other and I think we talked for 3 1/2 hours
13:01
straight. Yeah, Yeah, I think we did.
13:04
Exclusion of everyone else, so sorry.
13:07
Yes, sorry everyone. It happened.
13:09
When you find your people, you recognize them pretty quickly.
13:13
I I think too, it's like just to, to connect it to baseball.
13:18
You know, it, it is a shortcut and I think that's a really
13:20
apartment description of it, but it, it sidesteps all of the
13:24
preamble. But you still have to find your
13:26
people because you're not going to connect with everybody at the
13:30
Dodgers game. You're not, you're not going to
13:33
connect with everybody at air and water, but you still have to
13:38
find those people. It's just, it's like just
13:40
because you both drive the same brand doesn't mean that you'll
13:44
have much to talk about. It's like, I go to the track and
13:47
the the last thing honestly, I want to talk about are cars.
13:51
You know, I just, I love those human connections.
13:53
And so it's like, yeah, the cars are the catalyst, cars are the
13:56
the entryway. And then it's like, all right,
13:58
now I'm in this room. Let's find.
14:00
Let's find that subset of that subset.
14:03
Right. Yeah, yeah.
14:04
I think it's just it's sort of streamlines finding your people.
14:08
And then on top of that, you also have this massive hobby in
14:12
common which only adds to the whole thing.
14:15
Yeah. I mean like one of the things
14:17
that we've laughed about because I think it gives you common
14:19
experiences that you don't have to explain, like the the rate
14:24
that that only car people can understand when you see a car in
14:26
the wild on your phone malfunction that you don't get a
14:29
picture of. We were talking about this.
14:33
Just like, just like last week, yeah.
14:36
I don't what was the one because I was so proud of myself.
14:38
I caught a it was a Gen. 1 Range Rover Sport in Vesuvius, which
14:43
was one of the two colors. You could, yeah.
14:45
The turbocharged Remember I sent you that picture.
14:48
Yeah, it's it's kind of like the, it's like that picture.
14:51
Yeah. And the turbo?
14:53
It was the supercharged engine came in black or Vesuvius, and
14:58
the Vesuvius are very rare. They only made it, what, a
15:00
couple years, Derek? I mean.
15:07
Not to put me on the spot, sorry.
15:08
I know, I know, I know. Well, the, the, the Rover
15:14
connection is, is rather new for me.
15:16
So I'm, I'm still getting up to speed.
15:18
You know, here's the other thing.
15:19
It's like when I, when I first met Jason Camisa, I, I did not
15:24
know. Sorry, Jason, I did not know.
15:29
Sorry to everybody that drives ABMWI didn't know BMW platform
15:34
name numbers or or letters. And so when he's talking about
15:38
his E30 Touring and I'm like, huh, what?
15:40
What does? This mean yeah.
15:42
What is that? When So I grew up in
15:44
Pennsylvania and, and when somebody says G Body, I
15:47
immediately think of, you know, a 78 to 88 Monte Carlo or, you
15:53
know, Grand National or something like that, because
15:55
that's AG body for me. And so I had a lot of catching
15:58
up to do in 2015 on once I started meeting people in the
16:03
automotive journalist area because it was like going into
16:08
commercial production where I like, I'm surrounded by these
16:10
super smart people. And you know, they have a wealth
16:13
of knowledge that I don't know. And I've got my own subset, but
16:17
I don't have, I don't have their subset.
16:20
And so it's like, OK, there's, there's still a lot to learn.
16:23
Yeah, So what is your subset? I, I think, well, a car and
16:30
driver fax starting with, you know, January 1986.
16:35
I bet you still know all those quarter mile times from that
16:38
road test digest they had in the back, right?
16:40
I mean. It was.
16:41
Yeah, it was. It was more, it's more turns of
16:45
phrase. It's more how someone analyzes a
16:49
car. I remember they had a
16:50
retrospective on when they had the the Buick by Opal in the
16:56
late 60s and car and driver hated it so much that they shot
17:00
the the photos in the junkyard. And I will never forget this,
17:05
this phrase when they look back on it.
17:08
And and once Buick saw the article, they said Buick
17:14
levitated with rage and cancelled their advertising well
17:17
into the 21st century. And I just, I just love that
17:21
it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's gleefully recounting, you
17:26
know, kind of like the, the just the irreverent nature that's at
17:31
the heart of car and driver and, and unapologetic, too.
17:34
They're like, yeah, yeah. Sorry, there's a swagger, but it
17:37
was an intelligent swagger. Right.
17:39
Yeah, always. Appreciated that.
17:41
When you got to love a good like, genteel, very subtle
17:43
insult of like. Yeah, yeah, love that for.
17:48
You. Yeah, yeah.
17:49
Yeah, yeah. So my subset I I think is, is
17:53
more American. My friend Sarah has a really
17:57
great view of why certain cars gain value and it's the cars
18:04
that we've grown up with. And so for me it's it's 80s
18:08
cars. And and so like when the Grand
18:10
National started going up in, in price, I was like, yeah, OK.
18:16
And so we only had a Chevy Olds dealership.
18:20
And so the, the sound of a 2.5 liter Iron Duke or a 2.8 liter
18:25
V6 is just like ingrained in my head.
18:29
I could, I could tell you all the trim levels, I could tell
18:31
you all the colors. And so it's it's more just kind
18:37
of just a overview of of American cars as a whole as
18:43
opposed to like the specific zero to 60 times because nobody
18:46
was proud of those in the 80s. Well, that's what I was coming
18:53
good at. I mean if our, you know, 12 or
18:55
15 year old selves could see like the performance of cars,
18:58
you know what, 3 decades later or whatever, 4 decades later,
19:03
you know, I was told. There'd be no mask.
19:06
So more numbers for you, more numbers for you, Lindsay.
19:11
So I, I got to return to the scene of the crime.
19:14
I, I got to write a piece for all the week before they went
19:18
digital only. And it was about the, the
19:22
malaise days, the Malaise Motors car show that was held down in
19:27
El Segundo. And the Malaise era is defined
19:32
by the start of emissions controls all the way through the
19:36
end of OBD 1. So all the way to 1995, which
19:41
means that the Dodge Viper slides in under malaise cars.
19:48
I think it. Just made Ryan's entire month.
19:52
If you want to get technical, so when when it came out it, it had
19:57
400 horsepower and the reviews at the time were like holy cow,
20:01
400 horsepower. No car is ever going to have
20:05
more than 400 horsepower, especially from, you know, V10.
20:09
And cut to 2020 and the Lincoln Continental with a three liter
20:15
turbo V6 made 400 horsepower. So you know the time March is
20:21
on. Yeah, absolutely.
20:22
Yeah, it does. Sorry, Ryan.
20:25
No, I, I just, yeah, it's, it's amazing And, and, and, you know,
20:28
just the quality of cars too. It's just.
20:32
When you say quality it that's just a a a dictionary
20:36
description, right? That's because.
20:37
Yeah. There was no quality.
20:39
To be found, yeah. If you go back even further,
20:44
sorry to the 70s Consumer Reports, which is notoriously
20:50
hard on every product that it has.
20:52
Yeah, in, in the 70s they would have comparison tests of, of I,
20:58
I remember one about full size automobiles in American in like
21:03
73 or something like that. And they noted the defects and
21:08
it was done in a very, for me, uncharacteristic Consumer
21:12
Reports way because they're talking about stuff that like
21:17
would fall off or, you know, fluid that was leaking new cars.
21:21
And they're like, well, this happened.
21:22
It's it's a defect. But still, like, we'll give it,
21:25
you know, a good score and you think the.
21:28
Thing. That that was the level of
21:32
expected quality back back then. The bar is on the floor, kids.
21:38
Really, truly, you know, so you grew, you grew up with American
21:42
stuff. I mean, that's what you were.
21:43
Parents were driving. They were Oldsmobiles.
21:45
Yeah. Well, yes, yes, My mother had a
21:51
67 GTO. That was her first car.
21:55
That was her first new car. She she got it when she got her
21:58
teaching job at the university in Pennsylvania and drove it
22:02
from Kansas to Pennsylvania and drove it until it rusted out,
22:05
which in Pennsylvania was like the next year.
22:09
And my dad had a, he first had a Datsun 240Z.
22:16
And that's the car I came. Home with we talked.
22:19
About that because my friend had one.
22:20
Of those when I was young too. It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's,
22:24
it's fun to kind of like revisit that.
22:28
And then and then he got a 260Z and that was that was kind of
22:34
like the extent of the imports. And then, you know, Mom
22:38
Transcend transitioned into a a Cutlass Sierra and my dad got a
22:42
a Buick Century wagon. Same thing, right?
22:48
Well, the sentry was AG body. Oh, OK.
22:51
It was, it was a rear wheel drive, but unlike the Grand
22:54
National, it made 95 horsepower. You could not spin the tires on
22:58
gravel. And my mom's Cutlass Sierra, the
23:02
first one, the 84 was it was such a lemon that even back in
23:10
Pennsylvania before lemon laws, the dealership was like, bring
23:14
it back. We're so sorry.
23:16
We are so sorry. Hey, Les, we'll just take it off
23:18
your hands. And then because it's a small
23:20
town, someone else bought that Cutlass Sierra and more often
23:25
than not I would see it on the lift in the garage in town and
23:30
it was only like 2 years old. So.
23:33
So then my mom got another another Cutlass Sierra for some
23:36
reason. And but you know, it was sharp.
23:39
It was 1986. It was 2 tones.
23:41
So it was like silver over charcoal.
23:43
It had the blatty 2.8 liter V6 and what constituted a bang and
23:48
stereo system at the time, GM just like dialed in the base and
23:51
you're like, Oh yeah, yeah, like this is this is impressive.
23:56
Just like I remember playing by horsepower you.
23:58
Guys, remember the movie Gung Ho, right?
24:00
Oh yeah. Batman, right?
24:02
It was a Batman. But a gung.
24:05
Ho featuring Batman. I I, I feel like that was kind
24:07
of like half a documentary of like what the American
24:09
automotive industry was like. Right?
24:12
Yeah. That era I.
24:13
Don't know about the ribbons of shame and all that, but like it
24:15
was, you know, that was I, I can only imagine, you know, the, the
24:19
love and care that went into the construction of those things,
24:21
right? And by love and care, you're
24:24
placing it under the same bucket of quality, right?
24:27
I mean I I'm curious to see your dictionary and how these
24:32
definitions like if there are pictures next to them.
24:36
That's my dictionary. It's illustrated right.
24:38
It's illustrated. Yeah, just.
24:39
Point, right, Yeah. But it's it's amazing, like we
24:44
ever made it anywhere. Right, we took.
24:46
These cars cross country, right? We used to have things like
24:49
vapor lock on our brand new Chrysler minivans.
24:52
And you know what? Vapor lock and and with bias
24:55
supply tires, you would get so many flats.
24:58
And what's even more amazing is that the speed limit was 55.
25:01
So it's not like you were taxing these cars in any way.
25:04
It was kind of like you're at idle, right?
25:08
Yeah, compared to today, right? Yeah, compared to today where
25:12
it's like you can sustain, I don't know, 100 miles an hour,
25:15
120 for hours on end, close. Course not attempt if you're not
25:20
a professional driver. Close course.
25:22
Close course. But I cut you off so you were so
25:25
cutlass Sierras and and things like this and then.
25:29
Yeah, Lindsay and I also bonded because my dad had a an 83 Ford
25:37
F-150 with the the 300 straight 6 and A4 speed manual.
25:43
And that's what I learned to drive stick on.
25:45
OK, right. And.
25:47
And I learned to drive regular in an 85 Ford Bronco, which was
25:50
the same era, effectively very similar vehicle.
25:54
So, you know, it's a great start, right?
25:57
Because look at us now. Yeah, and Ryan, did you know
26:00
that Lindsay loves Broncos? She especially likes the the
26:05
Raptors if. Where do I look?
26:12
Oh. We just got called out.
26:14
By I did see that comment. Yes, I did see that comment
26:17
today. You know what?
26:20
I thought Raptors were supposed to be fast.
26:21
Sorry, quick rather. I Yeah.
26:24
That's in the dictionary too, but it's all subjective.
26:28
It's it's all subjective. It's like getting into my mom's
26:31
V6 Cutlass Sierra when you know, which had 125 horsepower.
26:36
It's fuel injected. It was lighter than the, the,
26:39
the, you know, the lethargic Buick.
26:42
And so for me, that was performance.
26:44
That was performance in 1986. And so when the Raptor first
26:49
came out, it's like, what else was there in the landscape that
26:55
that had those capabilities and those qualities And that that
27:01
was the Triton V8. Was that the 6/2?
27:04
Or I think so. I believe that first.
27:06
Gen. naturally aspirated. So yeah, I mean, compared to the
27:10
the EcoBoost, it's not as as powerful and not as quick, but
27:16
it's not going to overheat as quickly.
27:18
Right. It's a trade off, right?
27:21
Yeah, but it is, it's, it's a subjective observation and and
27:26
much like Consumer Reports, kind of like, Oh yeah, these have
27:29
defects. It's kind of like the the Raptor
27:32
at the time. It's like, holy cow, like this
27:33
is this is a new segment. This is this is pretty cool.
27:37
Right. It's like, look at what an
27:38
accomplishment this is. Like look at what a feat this
27:40
is. And, and I think like you make a
27:43
good point, Derek, like coming from the Ford trucks that you
27:46
and I came like grew up with. Yeah.
27:49
I mean, there's no comparison. You know, that's, I mean, even
27:52
my like I have a 2011F-150 and I mean it has colored lights
27:57
inside. Like if you had told me when I
27:59
was inside my 85 Bronco that trucks would one day have seven
28:04
different colors of lights and heated seats and air, air
28:07
conditioned seats, I would have said you were nuts like truck.
28:12
But here we are. And I'm not complaining.
28:14
And I like the pink light, just so we're clear.
28:17
What? This is also brand new
28:19
information. This is brand new information.
28:21
I I didn't send you a a magenta car earlier today.
28:26
You definitely did not. But that's what I love about the
28:29
car world too. You know, you find your people.
28:32
But also, and like you were saying, like we were, you and
28:35
Ryan were both saying, we bring our own sort of references and
28:40
we broaden each other's horizons.
28:42
Like the people that you get to know, you know, I mean, like
28:44
poor Paul Kramer at Auto Kennel, he now sees pink cars everywhere
28:47
because of me. Poor Derek now sees pink cars
28:49
everywhere because of me. And sharks.
28:52
And sharks. And pink sharks.
28:53
I mean, where's the line, Lindsay?
28:58
We haven't found it yet. We're going to get there.
29:01
Yeah. But, you know, we all like and
29:03
like my friend Laura, she sees Broncos because of me.
29:06
You know, Derek sees Broncos because of me.
29:07
But Derek was already seeing vintage Ford trucks, so.
29:10
Yeah, yeah, I was. Right.
29:13
It's good. I love it.
29:14
So yeah. So we we've totally thrown you
29:17
off Ryan, I'm. Saying no, no, no, no, no.
29:19
But I, I do want to bring this back to sort of like 80s, early
29:22
90s now because when the, the typhoon and well, I guess the
29:25
cyclone first. Came Oh God.
29:27
Yes. Do you remember how mind blowing
29:29
that thing was? Because mind blowing from these
29:31
130 horsepower full size Fords or whatever to Yeah, well,
29:36
that's like a. Pre Raptor, almost like it was
29:38
the It's in the same thread, kind of.
29:41
It's it's, it's more of so when the Grand National kind of
29:46
reached peak performance, you had, you had this incredible
29:50
powertrain saddled to this ancient platform.
29:54
And so Buick actually limited the top speed of the Grand
29:58
National to 124 mph because any faster and it would just
30:03
detonate. It would just the engine
30:05
wouldn't detonate, just the the car would, just the body would.
30:08
Just just. Turn into particles and and so
30:13
the engine found a better home in the, the 20th anniversary
30:17
Trans am two years later, but that platform was still like
30:22
what 7 years old at that point. And so not that the, the the S10
30:29
platform was any better, but it had an all-wheel drive system.
30:35
And I, I think, I think GMC kind of looked at Buick and was like,
30:38
hey, we want to turbocharge AV 6 too.
30:41
So they, they took the, the Vortec V6, which was basically
30:44
just kind of like, you know, a 5 liter V8 with two of the
30:47
cylinders cut off. But that, that V6, unlike
30:53
Buick's naturally aspirated V6 in the early 80s, Chevy had paid
31:00
attention to it. And so it was already fuel
31:02
injected. They had already kind of
31:03
upgraded the internals. And so it was, it was in a good
31:06
spot to be boosted and, and putting it in the the the
31:13
cyclone was kind of like, wait, yeah, what just happened?
31:18
Yeah, yeah. What just happened because that
31:20
all-wheel drive powertrain just like put all of that performance
31:23
to the pavement and it was just it just the zero to 60 time was
31:29
in the fours. Yeah, that.
31:33
What else did that in 1991 or whenever it came out?
31:38
Yeah, you look at that road test digest and it would jump out,
31:41
you know, it it just, it was. Nothing.
31:43
It would literally jump out of the digest I.
31:47
Mean, of course, that. Was based.
31:49
Six second car to 60 back then, right?
31:51
I mean, it was it was it wasn't that.
31:53
And shout out to our friends at Blue Chip here in Denver.
31:56
They have in their collection currently a teal typhoon that is
32:03
like, I don't know, it got 200 miles on it or something.
32:05
And and the the owner also owns a cyclone, one mile cyclone.
32:08
But to see one that pristine, right.
32:11
And then that color like peak, Yeah, you know.
32:13
I was gonna like, that's so of the era.
32:15
Like teal? Just yeah, it's a moment.
32:17
For teal. Teal, you know, with like pink
32:19
graphics on the side, like 15 inch wheels, you know, and it's
32:22
and it the whole thing is tiny, right with the whole thing looks
32:25
like a little sports car now compared to anything else and it
32:27
just what a an embodiment of that that age just did.
32:32
I want one I want one I want. It was, it was that era where
32:37
like turbocharging solved so many problems and it was it's
32:43
it's different from well, OK, so 1992 you had like just an
32:48
onslaught of like like planet stomping turbocharged cars.
32:56
You had the the Audi S4, which was, you know, 227 horsepower 5
33:05
cylinder just awesome goodness together with the stick shift.
33:09
You had the the cyclone and the typhoon and you had the Dodge
33:14
spirit RT turbo, which had 224 horsepower.
33:18
Oh yeah, 224 horsepower, 5 speed manual Lotus 16 valve head on
33:25
the the Chrysler block. And that thing just like stomped
33:30
everything else. Yeah, it's like it's, it's
33:32
keeping up at least in a straight line with this, this
33:35
$54,000 Audi S4. Yeah, yeah.
33:38
And, and you're like, yeah, but I've got this.
33:41
I don't know. I don't I I don't know the price
33:44
of the Spirit RT Turbo off the top of my head but I believe it
33:48
was less than $20,000. Yeah, I'm sure it was less than
33:51
20,000. And it was keeping up with an
33:52
Audi. Yeah, yeah.
33:53
Yeah. These are the Iacocca years,
33:56
right? Still, this was Was he gone by
33:59
then? I think he was on his way out.
34:04
If he had not fully stepped down, you know he.
34:07
He stepped down from CEO but he was still chairman of the board
34:10
or something around but not in the same capacity.
34:14
Yeah, Yeah. You know, he, he founded a a
34:19
electric bike company about 10 years after that.
34:22
Really. Yeah.
34:23
Yeah. In the late 90s, I actually, I
34:26
was, I had just moved to Los Angeles.
34:28
I was working at the Beverly Center at Banana Republic.
34:31
And one of the other associates there was actually working for
34:37
Lee at his, at his electric bike kind of startup.
34:43
And the startup was even a word in the the 90s.
34:47
And so I gave her my copy, my hard copy of Iacocca, which I
34:52
had read cover to cover in the back of my mom's cut with Sierra
34:55
going on a road trip to New York for camp, emerged a complete
35:00
Mopar die hard fan. And I mean, 'cause you can say K
35:05
Car and Mopar in the same sentence.
35:07
And yeah, but it it's like that that 10 year span, give or take,
35:15
you know, he got there in the late 70s, K car came out in 81
35:19
and the the final Aries rolled off the line in 89.
35:24
So that's that's kind of like the Iacocca years.
35:28
They even put a turbo in the Lebaron of the era I.
35:31
Remember, dude, they put a turbo.
35:33
They put a turbo in anything like like if, if, Yeah, they
35:39
put. OK, so here's another dumb fun
35:43
fact. Yeah, seriously.
35:44
Like you have your dictionary. I just have this stupid like fun
35:49
facts. We.
35:50
All have our stuff. So one thing Chrysler didn't
35:54
have was AV 6. They had the the slant 6 and you
36:00
know, that had that powered Chrysler's for, you know,
36:04
decades, but it wasn't going to fit in a front wheel drive car.
36:09
It was just it was too old, it was too heavy.
36:11
It was just, it was just too everything except powerful.
36:16
And, and so they developed the 2.2 liter and the 2.5 liter and
36:22
that's kind of what sustained every single car that was front
36:26
wheel drive for the longest time.
36:28
But as Chrysler started to grow up and realize, you know, we
36:32
have to have more than 4 cylinders, they started to make
36:35
AAV 6 and they were behind on development in the late 80s.
36:41
But the new minivans had come out in, you know, the the first
36:45
minivan came out in 84. They facelifted it and put AV6IN
36:48
in 87. But because their V6 was behind,
36:53
they sourced AV6 from Mitsubishi 141 horsepower 3 liter V6.
37:00
And you always know when it has the Mitsubishi V6 because if you
37:05
see any of those cars and it puffs out of the plume of blue
37:09
smoke, like, yeah, that's the Mitsubishi V6, not.
37:13
What we're in, that's what went in the caravan.
37:17
So when the Caravan, Voyager, Yeah, Dynasty, New Yorker, I'll
37:23
stop, but. Please don't.
37:26
Mitsubishi could not supply enough V sixes to to to to to to
37:34
supply, you know, the The New Yorker that came out the dynasty
37:38
that came out the minivans that were selling like minivans.
37:42
And and so for two years, 19891990, Chrysler dropped its
37:48
2.5 liter turbocharged 4 cylinder into the minivans in
37:53
the short wheelbase minivans. And you could get it in the SE,
37:59
the wood grained LE or on the Plymouth side, the LX and on the
38:04
Dodge side the ES, the performance ones.
38:06
And you can tell those 'cause they have a twin tailpipe coming
38:09
out from the right side. It it was an.
38:13
Annual available in that turbo as well or my.
38:15
Yes, imagine yes no. So it it, it produced 150
38:19
horsepower, which was more than the V6, but these engines were
38:24
also notoriously under stressed. And so I mean, you can go in,
38:29
you can go on YouTube and just type in turbo minivan and you'll
38:33
see these things lay down quarter mile times in almost
38:36
single digits. No kidding.
38:38
But to answer your question, yes, over the course of two
38:42
years, Chrysler produced for the Dodge and Plymouth Variance 500
38:49
minivans in each model year with a stick shift.
38:53
So you could get not in the LE because wood grain because you
38:57
know. It doesn't, yeah.
38:58
Who's going to drive a stick in a wood grain vehicle?
39:02
But you could get a stick in that.
39:04
And to find one of those is an obtainium.
39:07
That would be awesome, yeah. So, Derek, have you ever driven
39:11
one of the manuals like in your life?
39:13
I've never driven the turbo manual.
39:17
I have driven. I have driven 1 manual caravan
39:22
and that was the third generation that went from 91 to
39:25
95. Also, fellow fellow car person
39:32
Alex Lenz has 1. He does, he does, he has a, he
39:37
has a manual. It's, it's the naturally
39:38
aspirated 2.5 liter. Oh my God.
39:42
And yeah, nice. So I would love to drive that as
39:45
well. Yeah, I know.
39:47
And I'm like, should we put it out to like if anyone has a
39:50
turbo manual? Minivan anyone has a turbo
39:53
manual unmodified minivan because those went straight to
39:57
the drag strip like why wouldn't you and of course the the drag
40:02
strip is better obviously with with an automatic and that
40:06
automatic was also the the Chrysler 3 speed was just nearly
40:11
indestructible and so when you're putting. 15 lbs of
40:15
booster there. It's like, OK, here's second,
40:18
here's third. Yeah.
40:19
All right. What else do you want?
40:21
Yeah. You can't have headrests, but
40:23
you can have a turbo and a manual, right?
40:25
Yeah, well. I mean, you got to pick and
40:28
choose I guess. Pick one.
40:29
Come on. Yeah.
40:30
Yeah, yeah. What do you want?
40:32
Those are just such, I don't know, important cars to so many
40:35
of us, right? I mean, that's just what our
40:36
what our memories are made of, right?
40:38
Those, those things. And we had two, we had an early
40:41
one I think in 85. And then we had a facelift one.
40:43
Both were the four cylinders, both were the automatics.
40:46
And neither one had a cassette deck.
40:47
I think there were S ES, maybe the sporty ones.
40:50
Yeah, but not. Not the yeah, the the SE got I'm
40:55
just nerding out again. The the SE was it was, it was
40:58
Bass SE and Ellie and so but yeah, the SE and at the time,
41:05
it's like air conditioning was still optional.
41:08
Yeah. And.
41:09
Like rear air was not like revolutionary like.
41:12
Even roll the damn windows down. So you were really toasty back,
41:15
right? Yeah.
41:16
That's yeah. I mean, it is.
41:18
It's so funny to look back on like knowing what you know now
41:21
and especially being like fully baked car people as we are, you
41:25
know, just like we just we are who we are.
41:28
And my family came so close to buying one of the extended.
41:32
It was probably a second Gen. because it wasn't the first one.
41:35
It was slightly, you know, the. Facelift, second Gen., whatever
41:38
you want to. Call it.
41:39
Yeah, the facelift one, it was ice blue with Navy, you know,
41:42
pinstripe extended. And we were so excited because
41:46
there were three kids and we were like, we're going to be
41:47
able to get to the backseat easily and this is going to be
41:50
amazing. And instead my parents bought an
41:53
Oldsmobile custom cruiser station wagon.
41:56
In retrospect. Well, you just made Johnny
42:00
Lieberman very happy. I know.
42:01
I told Johnny, I'm like, we had the same car.
42:03
It was just, yeah, mine was all Gray.
42:05
It was all brown. Yep.
42:07
But but so I learned to drive in the custom cruiser and the 85
42:12
Bronco and I have never meant anything that I was intimidated
42:15
to drive because they were both enormous in different ways.
42:20
I learned to parallel park in the Bronco, you know, and like,
42:24
like, were we very disappointed that we didn't get the minivan?
42:27
Yes. Are we glad now that we didn't
42:29
get the minivan? Yes.
42:33
I wanted my mom, I wanted my mom to get the, the the Sentra XE
42:39
Coupe instead of so it it wasn't like just the the square Sentra.
42:44
It was like the XE Coupe that was sporty and I wanted her to
42:48
get either that or the Pulsar NX with I was just comparable.
42:52
With the top that you or the back end that you could take
42:54
off. And she comes home with the
42:56
Cutlass Sierra again. It's, it's kind of like, yeah,
43:00
it's, it's like, oh, I know this polonium gave me like all my
43:05
hair fell out. So I, I I returned it, but I
43:07
came back with uranium, which is different.
43:11
It's the same but different. The gal at the store said this
43:14
one's better. It's 2 tone.
43:16
Yeah, this one won't break. I love it.
43:18
I know. I love it, I know.
43:19
It's amazing. Are we on question #2 Ryan?
43:22
Yeah, let's also let's bring this to current day and we're
43:24
talking. About one. .5.
43:28
Some of these cars, some of these brands don't exist.
43:30
Who's on your death watch right now, 2025?
43:33
Oh boy, oh boy. I mean, get me a Stalantis
43:38
dartboard and blindfold me. Yeah, where we Iacocca, where
43:45
are you, right, I mean speaking. Of yeah.
43:47
Here's the thing, it's like I take a look at Jeep.
43:52
It's, it's been that has been the crown jewel of any
43:56
manufacturer, any, any manufacturer that has owned Jeep
44:00
or has acquired another car company is because of Jeep.
44:04
And Renault probably jumped into bed with AMC, not because of
44:09
like the Concorde or the spirit or the Gremlin or the Pacer.
44:12
It was like, it was like, oh, what's this thing?
44:15
What's this thing here? And I mean, if, if, if you
44:19
haven't seen Jason Kamisa's piece on the XJ, it's
44:23
phenomenal. And it talks about the
44:26
collaboration of, or the influence that Renault had on
44:29
the XJ. And, but, but as we know, the XJ
44:34
kind of transformed the, the, the sport utility world.
44:39
And, and then once the, the Grand Cherokee was introduced,
44:45
it was just kind of like, OK, even before that, like Chrysler
44:49
was like, all right, we're going to buy Lamborghini.
44:53
We're going to do this stupid, you know, mash up.
44:55
Sorry, Ryan, we're back in the 80s.
44:57
We're going to do this stupid mash up with Maserati.
44:59
We live here now. And, and we're also going to
45:04
get, we're also going to buy AMC because of Jeep.
45:07
And then maybe the merger of equals was, was because of Jeep.
45:13
And you know, the, the, the following Grand Cherokee in the
45:18
2000s had a lot of ML parts underneath.
45:23
And so, but now it's like Jeep is not the crown jewel.
45:29
It's been struggling in sales. That's not to say that it's on
45:32
the chopping block. I don't think it's be on the
45:34
chopping block, but it's, it's, it's no longer the crown jewel
45:38
when so many other brands have caught up to, to just kind of
45:44
doing something comparable. That's part of a larger, you
45:48
know, just analysis because it's like to go back to the S4 90s to
45:53
go back to the S4. It's like Audi used to
45:54
differentiate itself by having turbocharged all-wheel drive
45:58
cars, and now every German is turbocharged and all-wheel
46:01
drive. So where's the differentiation?
46:03
Yeah. So if it comes to the chopping
46:06
block, it's like, yeah, I, I think some something that this
46:13
stalanthus portfolio. Yeah.
46:16
What? Fiat has a car.
46:19
Yeah. And they're free.
46:21
Yeah. What was it is it doesn't
46:24
Chrysler? They just have the Pacifica
46:25
right now. They just have the Pacifica.
46:27
That's a weird one too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:29
When you end up with a, a mark that has literally 1 vehicle,
46:33
yeah, it's not a. And then when you have several
46:35
marks that have one vehicle like.
46:38
It's like a airport with just one flight, yeah.
46:41
Like why are we keeping? This up they exist, but not for
46:43
long. Yeah.
46:46
So it's a question too. And this is beyond my pay grade
46:49
of like, what does it take to keep the lights on for a brand?
46:52
Yeah, yeah. Well, how much?
46:55
Like if they're under the umbrella, you know, the
46:57
Stilantis umbrella, how many other brands, like keeping the
47:01
Pacifica alive for, you know, it's like, how much is the
47:06
overall picture playing into? Like, yeah, we'll keep the
47:09
lights on with this one model and just see how it goes.
47:13
Could you think standalone? Would it be sustainable?
47:17
There's something to be said about for economies of scale.
47:20
And there's there's a reason that this this weirdly named
47:27
acronym is this, you know, brand juggernaut.
47:32
But if we take a look, sorry, Ryan, at the 90s when Ford went
47:37
on a shocking spree and picked up Aston Martin and Jaguar and
47:43
Land Rover, Land Rover and Volvo and was like, oh, we're going to
47:49
make a premier automotive group. Yeah, PAG.
47:52
And so they didn't have resources to properly support
47:56
any of those brands. And so you had Jags platform
48:00
sharing with, with the with Lincoln's and the Ford Taurus
48:04
and the Volvo sharing the platform.
48:07
And then, you know, the most egregious but awesome thing is a
48:11
a Ford Crown Vic steering wheel and then Aston Martin.
48:15
What's not to love? Come on.
48:16
What's not to love? And so I think it flash forward
48:21
to the present. Sorry.
48:24
Oh, I mean, you're welcome. Flash forward to the present.
48:26
It's it's the same thing. It's like you've got you've got
48:30
all these mergers and acquisitions and you have to, in
48:33
order, to Lindsay's point, stay on the radar because bespoke
48:37
brands just cannot do it. I mean, blessed be to the the
48:44
VCs who are like, yeah, let's pick up Aston Martin.
48:47
You know it's a what could go wrong, right?
48:51
We don't have the Chinese in the past.
48:53
This is going to be totally fine.
48:55
Yeah, or the the Chinese or for, for, for Julie saying, oh, you
48:59
know, we had such luck with Volvo, let's pick up Lotus and,
49:03
and, and achieve this, this I know and achieve the same
49:06
effect. So on one hand, those brands
49:09
would probably not exist like Lotus and Aston Martin and, you
49:15
know, maybe Jaguar would not exist were it not for these
49:18
giant companies, right? But if you cannot fully support
49:24
the brands that you have, then there's no there's no
49:28
differentiation between them. Yeah.
49:30
Yeah, you're right. They end up it's it's you know,
49:34
it's a little bit it's different from what people.
49:37
But when they talk about Porsche, like smaller and
49:39
smaller slices of the same size pie, you end up having like they
49:43
share more and more. Yeah, like what do you, what are
49:46
you getting? There's no differentiation.
49:48
It doesn't help. And then like, what's the
49:51
appeal? Yeah, it's cars at least.
49:54
Better look good. I I I recently was on the the
50:02
1st Dr. of the the bent leaf lines for hybrid and it shares a
50:06
lot of DNA underneath with the the Porsche.
50:10
You know the the Porsche Pandem Pandemera Turbo SE Hybrid.
50:15
I hope I'm saying that right I. Think so, yeah.
50:17
Sorry, Porsche, we'll. Get corrected if.
50:19
Not yeah, yeah. Or the the Jaguar Land Rover
50:22
Defender. I don't know.
50:25
So and and there are a lot of places in which it does feel
50:32
very Bentley and very unique. I did not say very unique.
50:35
Please delete that it it feels special.
50:39
But then you open the door and you're greeted by the same time
50:42
that you're going to hear in an Audi A3, you've got an
50:46
infotainment system that you will find in a six with Gilson's
50:52
fonts because that's very British.
50:55
And so it's, it's kind of like where do you find those areas
51:00
where you can manage costs, but you can still deliver a unique
51:04
experience where the the customer will spend $300,000 as
51:09
opposed to the Porsche, which is, you know, 230.
51:15
I think not that. Yeah, not that.
51:17
Yeah. Because as, as the customer, how
51:20
do you justify that to yourself if it's in a lot of ways the
51:24
same car, as you know, you've lost the exclusivity of like,
51:29
well, you can only get this if you're in this realm, unless you
51:32
get this other thing over here which is kind of the same or has
51:35
a lot of the same elements. Yeah.
51:38
So I think we are in that bubble of being able to to speak to
51:43
this and articulate it in a in informed fashion.
51:46
But we're also Canaries in the coal mine kind of seeing this
51:50
happen and thinking, OK, what's the spring effect?
51:54
When is that going to catch up with the public?
51:57
When or will they care? Will they care that their their
52:05
iris is an RSQ 8 like if you open the spare tire cover and
52:09
see a bunch of Audi branded wiring or right will they care
52:15
or is it is it image? Is it?
52:18
Yeah, is. It literally for the name, yeah,
52:21
yeah, yeah. And I think it's you're right.
52:23
It's an interesting, it's sort of a psychological exercise of
52:26
like it. It's going to play out and show
52:29
how strong the brands are that they can sustain on basically on
52:35
the name only as the cars get more similar, the strength of
52:39
the brand is going to sustain them beyond because people are
52:42
going to go well. But it's still a Bentley or it's
52:43
still this, it still has the halfway.
52:45
How long does that last before people start to catch on and go
52:48
like, OK, but it's really just an Audi or it's really this, you
52:52
know? If I may like again, sort of the
52:55
evolution of what is luxury, right?
52:57
Yeah, you know, over the decades, right.
52:59
And probably most recently it equaled technology, right?
53:02
Well, now everyone's got the tech.
53:04
Where do we go from here? Do we go back to like a, a
53:06
Mercedes, you know, W124 where it's, it's just the, the vault
53:10
like feeling or I mean, like what's what's next?
53:13
What is luxury, you know, 10 years from now?
53:18
We go back to a clean slate, right, Lindsay?
53:22
Right. Yeah.
53:24
Yeah, Have you? You've already talked about the
53:26
state reveal on the Well I Did episode.
53:30
But I would love to hear your, you know, because you knew about
53:33
it for so much longer than I did.
53:36
Like you haven't. I'm sorry I couldn't tell you.
53:39
No, are you kidding? That's I mean, I was laughing
53:42
about that and I'm like, that's how you know, you found your
53:44
people where you both finally go like I couldn't really and.
53:47
Then Lindsay didn't tell us so. And I've been good, right?
53:50
Yeah. She's.
53:50
Yeah, she's no Angel. Yeah.
53:53
I don't know or I am absolutely an Angel because I didn't tell
53:56
anyone. True, true.
53:58
I think it's so look, slate is not a luxurious vehicle in any
54:04
way. But what the, the brilliance of
54:07
Slate for me is that for, for so long, the, the, the car
54:16
companies have kind of like developing technology,
54:19
developing features to try to set them apart to try to get you
54:23
to buy the next year. I mean, it used to be styling
54:27
changes used to be like 60s and 70s, they would change the look
54:30
of the car every year. Now you can do that through
54:34
technology. You can upgrade a car just with
54:37
a over the air update. And, and, and Slate's viewpoint
54:44
is kind of like so many people don't need or want those
54:48
features. And, and so I don't think it's a
54:51
novelty. I don't think that they're doing
54:53
crank windows because they, they want to be anti or they want to
54:58
be punk. Yeah, it's, it is, it's, it's
55:01
form and function at that perfect intersection.
55:06
But I, I don't bring that up to kind of pivot.
55:09
I, I feel like there could also be back to basics for luxury as
55:15
well, because there some of the, some of the luxury brands just
55:20
even in fashion and there are fewer and far further between
55:26
because everything is just so on on a fast track now.
55:31
But there are still those established brands that that
55:34
feel that less is more and don't need to dazzle you or put a lot
55:40
of expensive, heavy, cumbersome, unreliable tech into the cars.
55:47
Even even as journalists. We'll get into cars and we'll be
55:50
like, OK, how do we wait? Why is there an augmented
55:53
reality screen on this M5? Like why do I need to see what
55:58
I'm seeing like? Right.
56:00
Like in a car. What's going on here?
56:02
Yeah. Even even as journalists, like
56:07
we get into cars and we're like, OK, it's going to take us a
56:09
second to kind of, like, absorb all of this.
56:12
And, you know, especially when we're in and out of cars on a
56:16
regular basis, there's no kind of like simple tactile muscle
56:20
memory thing that can just kind of literally seat you.
56:27
And so for luxury, it's like, what does that look like in 10
56:30
years? It, it depends on back to your
56:33
dictionary what your definition of luxury is.
56:36
Is it going to be a, a space that you just have serenity that
56:42
you have just let, let's take away, let's take away all the
56:47
technology. Let's, let's take away ADAS,
56:49
let's take away any autonomy or the future that we've been
56:53
promised. And why?
56:54
I don't know. I want to drive my car and just
56:57
kind of like look at luxury for luxury's sake.
57:00
I, I think the first question you have to ask yourself is
57:02
what's luxurious to you? What do you feel proud about
57:09
when you get in a car? It's, it's like, is it that
57:13
sense of solidity or is it the, the just the smell of the
57:20
leather seats or the interior? Is it the way that you have a, a
57:24
commanding view of, of the road in front of you?
57:27
Or for me, is it a climate control system that can actually
57:32
keep a consistent temperature? It it all depends on yeah, it's,
57:40
it's not just luxuries for luxury for feature's sake, but
57:44
luxury for an experience, Yeah, or in a memory.
57:47
Kind of it's like what fits your life and enhances your
57:50
experience in the car. That's gonna be a different
57:53
definition for everybody. Yeah, you know, and yeah, like
57:57
you, you bring up a really good point because like to me, my
58:00
truck is luxurious and I know that's not the definition of
58:03
luxury to. A lot.
58:04
You have pink lights, of course your truck is luxurious.
58:06
Right. I mean.
58:08
Yeah. But yeah, it's like you said,
58:11
like I it's dependable, it's unbelievably comfortable and it
58:16
has allowed me to do so many things in my life, like it fits
58:19
exactly what I need. And, you know, like, what more
58:23
could you want, really? So there's your Ford ADD.
58:28
Also, Ryan, I realized I didn't answer your question with a with
58:33
a solid answer. It was more of a quantification,
58:35
more of a philosophical. That's OK.
58:38
Question, but it it, yeah. It yeah, it is interesting.
58:45
I think there's something about simplicity, right?
58:47
I mean, I think trends are often in response to world events and
58:49
all that. In an increasingly complicated
58:51
world, we want simplicity. We want calm, right?
58:53
We want that. Whatever Infinity is doing is
58:55
not what I'm looking for. In luxury.
58:58
OK, so noted. All right, I, I, I saw this QX
59:02
50th that was perfect for you. You may have to pivot. 70 or
59:07
nothing or what is what's the big one?
59:08
Yeah. I'll, I'll keep looking for you,
59:11
yeah. Yeah, this stuff V eights.
59:13
There's big SU VS the big infinities they did a couple
59:15
years ago, right? Yeah, the QX 80 man.
59:18
I remember driving when I think that was a throwback.
59:20
It was like driving an old station wagon or something.
59:22
I, I, we, we had an episode, Top Gear episode up in Montana and
59:30
we on our off day, a couple of us drove to Yellowstone and you
59:38
know, it's, it's beautiful, beautiful sweeping 2 lane roads
59:42
on the way from Butte to to Yellowstone.
59:45
And we're in this QXADI mean that sounds like we got there.
59:53
We got that. Well, that's a good segue to
59:56
talk about Top Gear a little bit.
59:58
I know we don't have a lot of time left, so we'd love to hear.
1:00:01
About some enjoy, I can push my dinner, whatever you need.
1:00:04
Well, OK, yeah. We'd.
1:00:05
Love to hear about some of your favorite experiences and places
1:00:07
you went. Just yeah, I mean that what when
1:00:09
you when you think of those years, what comes to mind?
1:00:13
So a saving my bacon because I got hired on Top Gear America
1:00:19
mere days before the world shut down in 2020.
1:00:23
And BBC was so generous to keep everybody on for that production
1:00:33
because we nobody knew. Nobody knew what was going to
1:00:36
happen and well. That's even more remarkable
1:00:39
given how how stringent England was so to.
1:00:43
Have the. Parent company.
1:00:46
Like, and you had, you had three parents really.
1:00:49
You had, you had BBC, you had Discovery and you had Motor
1:00:52
Trend and, and for all of those conglomerates to kind of agree
1:00:57
and, and keep that momentum going was, was such a boon for
1:01:04
everybody involved. And so that also kind of united
1:01:08
us from the start because we were in the trenches in, in this
1:01:11
just I hate this term because it's so connected, but this
1:01:16
unprecedented time because nobody had the answer and nobody
1:01:23
had been through this before. And we were actually one of the
1:01:27
first ones out of the gate, started shooting in July of that
1:01:30
same year and just really hit the ground running.
1:01:35
And what was unique about that first, that first season is that
1:01:42
we couldn't travel. We could not, we could not get
1:01:45
on the plane. And so we had to drive
1:01:49
everywhere. And that meant being very
1:01:53
creative in our stories and our locations because we wanted to
1:01:57
make it look different. It couldn't be all Los Angeles
1:02:00
based. So our, our, our zone was about
1:02:07
500 miles. And, you know, we got to go
1:02:11
north, you know, all the way to Thunder Hill, which is one of my
1:02:15
favorite tracks. I can cross that question off my
1:02:19
list then. Yeah.
1:02:21
And well, yeah, we haven't even gotten to your questions yet.
1:02:25
Sorry. And and so that first year was
1:02:28
just was just such phenomenal bonding because it was kind of
1:02:32
like, how can we how can we make this a season at a time when
1:02:40
everything is shut down? You know, we season 1 and two,
1:02:44
we wore masks every single day of shooting, even when we were
1:02:48
outside, even when when we were in the desert, even after we
1:02:52
started getting vaccinated because we were so we were so
1:02:57
stringent on making sure that that we complied because we had
1:03:01
a show to deliver. And if anyone had gotten sick
1:03:04
and nobody did, if anyone had gotten sick, it would have just
1:03:08
completely, you know, thrown everything off.
1:03:11
It's an. Incredible record because you
1:03:12
think about all the productions that we heard about getting shut
1:03:15
down for two weeks or forever because however long or the
1:03:19
chain, like you said, like one person gets sick and then it can
1:03:22
set off a chain and production shut down maybe for the rest of,
1:03:25
you know, the project or whatever.
1:03:27
That's an incredible record. And my first day on set was I.
1:03:35
I had flown to Austin, TX and then driven out to Buddha, Texas
1:03:41
to work on an episode. And I don't I don't think I knew
1:03:49
anybody on on set didn't know anyone I knew Jethro.
1:03:55
I knew Jethro from Motor Trend, but I didn't know anybody on
1:04:00
crew. And I walk into the the
1:04:03
Fairfield Inn and Suites or wherever, wherever we were
1:04:06
staying, and one of the producers, David Silverman,
1:04:11
comes up to me and goes, Hey, you have a you have a defender
1:04:14
shirt. My brother is a defender cool
1:04:15
shirt. And that was like that was in it
1:04:19
was. Just.
1:04:20
Off and running and everyone, everyone that I worked with in
1:04:27
those trenches was just so amazing, so amazing, you know?
1:04:31
You met Sean Winograd at the Slate reveal.
1:04:35
Oh, was he on that project with you?
1:04:36
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was.
1:04:38
No, I didn't know. We were kind of like the the,
1:04:40
the four Musketeers. It was David Silverman, Sean
1:04:43
Winograd, Joe Berry and myself and.
1:04:46
We just. You know, we had our own table,
1:04:51
you know, at at Thanksgiving it was the kids table.
1:04:54
That's amazing. Pleased to be, but yeah.
1:04:57
But it's like, you know, we're still on a group text to this
1:04:59
day. We all went to Joe's wedding in
1:05:01
Italy. It's it's kind of like, you
1:05:04
know, it just we forged so many great relationships and
1:05:09
Francesca Duluthis, who's the production manager on Top Gear,
1:05:13
was my producer on the first Cody in the car.
1:05:16
And so it was just, it was such a, a magical place to not only
1:05:21
kind of like share this trauma of a, a worldwide pandemic, but
1:05:27
also kind of like work on something that we're, we all
1:05:30
could speak that shorthand. So that was, that was, that was
1:05:36
one of the most memorable things, You know, the, the, the
1:05:41
cars that we had the stories that we could tell in, you know,
1:05:46
every episode was shot in two days.
1:05:49
We had an additional day for beauties for the cars.
1:05:53
But yeah, the, the stories were shot in two days.
1:05:55
And so wow, we had a lot of of obstacles to overcome and, and
1:06:00
we just, we managed to do it and we could not have done it if we
1:06:04
hadn't all been working together.
1:06:05
So that was great. Well, and like you said, I mean,
1:06:09
I think it's one of those things it's like a, it's like a study
1:06:12
abroad on steroids where. Like you.
1:06:15
Are you are the only group of people who knows what that was
1:06:18
like? So to be able.
1:06:20
To maintain those friendships is, you know, that's, I think
1:06:24
that's one of the best parts of life.
1:06:25
And it's that's sort of a microcosm of the car community
1:06:28
because you don't have to explain it.
1:06:31
You kind of just go like you remember the thing with the and
1:06:34
you're like, you're all there. Yeah, yeah.
1:06:37
And, and, and still like there are several group chats with
1:06:41
various members of the crew and, and we'll pop up from time to
1:06:44
time when the memory happens or, you know, shoot stuff on, on
1:06:48
Instagram or yeah, it's it's just nice to have have those and
1:06:52
to have those relationships kind of blossom beyond, beyond the
1:06:56
show. And again, Ryan, I think that's
1:06:58
more of a, a, a, a world philosophical answer as opposed
1:07:04
to like, you know, like, oh, we, we had the vector.
1:07:08
That was awesome. But again, it transcends the
1:07:11
cars, right? That's.
1:07:12
That's all about. Yeah.
1:07:13
I mean, we keep like unintentionally, that's the
1:07:15
theme, right. But I think that has been all of
1:07:17
our experience in the car world too.
1:07:19
So it's like that's, that's a natural progression in the
1:07:22
conversation. Yeah, yeah.
1:07:25
Does that? Does that, does that answer your
1:07:26
question? Or do you have?
1:07:28
It does or. Not your questions.
1:07:29
I am not asking any more questions.
1:07:30
I realize I've kind of taken over the question asking.
1:07:33
So Lindsay, I'll, I'll hand the bit down to you.
1:07:35
Sorry, it's. Well, you have such good
1:07:37
questions. Yeah, dude, what else do you
1:07:42
have? I mean, you have, you know, and
1:07:44
I know we, we don't have a whole lot of time here, but I know
1:07:45
you're a big movie guy, film guy.
1:07:47
Obviously you're involved in production and directing and
1:07:49
writing and everything else. As far as mainstream movies go.
1:07:54
Is is there one that you think really got the car casting
1:07:57
right? Because I think that's such an
1:07:59
essential part. When they even when they get it
1:08:01
wrong, you notice, but sometimes they really get it right.
1:08:03
It's I can take this one. It's obviously, it's obviously
1:08:06
Gremlins 1 and now Derek. Will be is there AG body?
1:08:14
Probably we'll go on IMCDB. Yeah.
1:08:18
Yeah, I, I actually, I think Billy's mom drives a, a, a
1:08:22
Pontiac G body wagon, maybe in terms of car casting a rabbit.
1:08:27
Or something. I'm going to give you a left
1:08:30
field and there, there, there are two and they're both
1:08:35
animated and I am not a fan of animation normally.
1:08:42
Actually I'll say 3, but the third one is is you'll get it
1:08:45
when I say it. The first one is animated French
1:08:50
movie called Triplets of Belleville.
1:08:53
And there's a a Sichuan DS that's driven by the bad guys
1:08:59
and they chase this bicyclist around.
1:09:02
Yeah, yeah, France. And whenever it comes to a stop,
1:09:05
it just goes because of the the hydro pneumatic suspension.
1:09:10
Yeah, that's great. It's just it's so genius, so
1:09:12
genius and never gets old. And then the other one is the
1:09:15
Audi A4 two point 8IN Miyazaki spear to the way.
1:09:20
And it's not so much the accuracy of the drawing, which
1:09:23
is yeah, it's AB 5 and I think it's the facelift, the 1.
1:09:26
So it's got the the only like. Car so I've got to check this
1:09:30
out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:09:33
And did you have the 1.8 or the? No I the two the 2.8 the the
1:09:37
facelift and it was this the the 5 speed.
1:09:39
OK, cool, cool, cool. Good, because that's what this
1:09:42
car was. Awesome.
1:09:43
And what I love about it is that they got the Foley right, they
1:09:48
got the sound design right. And so when it is driving
1:09:51
through frame, you hear that 2.8 and you know the sound of that
1:09:55
car, that 5 valve like in second gear.
1:09:58
I always thought that I was Marty McFly in in the DeLorean
1:10:02
because it it had the same second gear whine, or at least
1:10:05
the whine that it had in back to the future.
1:10:07
But the sound of this a four 2.8 in spirit of the way is it's
1:10:13
accurate. It's because you've all you've
1:10:15
all seen those movies where like, you know, an Audi RS6
1:10:18
starts up, but it's a Ford 3O2 starter or they lock it and it's
1:10:22
the sound of a Toyota or a BMW and you're like, Oh my God, no
1:10:25
right of. Course not hard people.
1:10:29
It's really not. It's not hard, you guys.
1:10:31
It's just not, it's not right. On the car, it's right.
1:10:35
There I I'll leave the, you know, the the other answers for
1:10:39
other people because I, I, I just, I love that.
1:10:42
The third one is, is Archer and especially I think it's season 2
1:10:48
or 3 when he gets a, it looks like a 68 or 69 Dodge Charger
1:10:53
and he's just like ripping through the the streets.
1:10:56
But anytime you pause it and look at the cars in Archer on
1:11:02
the street, it's it's almost as good as Grand Theft Auto where
1:11:07
you see it looks like a Lincoln Mark 4, but it's not really a
1:11:10
Lincoln Mark 4. He's driving a Charger, but it's
1:11:12
not really a Charger. It's.
1:11:15
Like cars one and two where you're like.
1:11:18
Yeah, yeah. But they're they're drawn in a
1:11:21
way that it's clear that whoever was drawing them knew exactly
1:11:25
what they were doing. Oh, that's pretty fun.
1:11:27
Like. Like Easter egg, it's not just a
1:11:31
car. It's like a Lincoln Mark 4, it's
1:11:33
a Dodge Charger. It's or like in Grand Theft Auto
1:11:37
when it's like almost a Grand National or almost a Crown
1:11:42
Victoria. Yeah, yeah.
1:11:43
Like we we couldn't get the copyright, but you guys know
1:11:46
what it is. Yeah.
1:11:47
Yeah, exactly. Those are great answers.
1:11:50
I I know that we're running short on time, and Lindsay, I
1:11:54
don't. If you've got anything else,
1:11:55
please, now's the time. I mean, I should wrap this up
1:11:58
for like 6. Yeah, I know.
1:12:00
Well, you'll come back soon because this has been an
1:12:02
absolute pleasure. Have a really quick moment if
1:12:04
you have a minute. Yeah, yeah, 4. 5 so OK perfect.
1:12:10
So I got to go off roading at the Quail over the weekend with.
1:12:14
Landro. See, there we go.
1:12:18
Yeah. And it was.
1:12:20
Send pictures I. Did send a couple to Derek.
1:12:24
Yep, and video. And video, yeah, so, but so one
1:12:28
of the funniest parts about when I sent you the videos and our
1:12:32
friend Steph Kowal was there, which was amazing.
1:12:34
We were just we were just missing our Derek Powell.
1:12:37
But when I sent Derek one of the videos, he immediately wrote me
1:12:41
back Daphne because one of the coaches is Daphne Green.
1:12:45
And so I wondered if you can share a little bit about her
1:12:49
background because I think you know more than I do.
1:12:51
I know she did the Camel trophy for years and years.
1:12:55
She's this like pint sized bad ass legend, like legend, most
1:13:01
delightful woman. I mean, I just, I was like, I
1:13:04
just want to put her in my pocket or my purse and.
1:13:07
Like you can off road anywhere. Yeah, again, it goes back to
1:13:16
sineway. He introduced me to her almost
1:13:20
10 years ago. And Daphne is responsible for if
1:13:26
you go to an OHV course in California, chances are she's
1:13:31
designed it, not only had a hand in it, but designed it.
1:13:34
And, and again, like when you meet her in person, she's just
1:13:37
very humble and down to earth, but just has, just has such such
1:13:45
an intuitive sense of driving off road.
1:13:48
And you can tell with her hand gestures, right?
1:13:51
It's just like even if you don't know what the the hand gestures
1:13:54
are for stuff for off roading, like when you're coming down
1:13:59
that Rockwall or that that rock staircase, or if you're if
1:14:03
you're trying to get the if you're trying to get the, the
1:14:07
the fulcrum and have it go from this to this.
1:14:12
Safely, right. So Ryan, you're on three wheels
1:14:15
and the front left wheel is completely in the air, you know,
1:14:18
3 feet. And she's guiding you to bring
1:14:22
it forward so that the car will gently settle without tipping
1:14:26
too much, you know, and so you get a sense for the car and the
1:14:30
capability. But right, like what Derek is
1:14:33
saying, you know, because she guided me on the fulcrum part.
1:14:37
So you're sitting in the air. And she.
1:14:42
Yeah, that was my first experience of having someone
1:14:45
outside the car. And I talked to her later and I
1:14:49
said, OK, your facial expression, like, tell me what
1:14:53
that was. Because we were not, we were too
1:14:56
far away to be communicating verbally.
1:14:58
So everything was non verbal and they talk about that before we
1:15:03
start. They said, you know, when you
1:15:04
have a team and you learn the rhythm and Daphne and her Camel
1:15:07
Trophy teammate obviously had their own very successful rhythm
1:15:11
that they developed over years and years.
1:15:14
But she truly just is, you know, you talk about nature versus
1:15:17
nurture like this is her nature. She is exactly where she should
1:15:22
be as an off road coach and instructor because without a
1:15:26
word she just, it's like everything got quiet and super
1:15:32
calm. Like we're just going to do
1:15:34
this, no big deal. But you know, it's almost
1:15:38
magnetic and she just has this very easy sense and you just do
1:15:43
what she says and everything is fine.
1:15:46
Some people are just born to do a role, right?
1:15:49
Yeah, much like our friend Derek here, right.
1:15:50
I mean, you were born to do what you're doing.
1:15:53
Yeah, which is. I haven't figured that out yet,
1:15:56
but. And get back to us when you have
1:15:58
the answer. And I will work on that.
1:16:03
Yeah. Derek, what?
1:16:05
What do you have going on? Like what's in the works?
1:16:07
Where do we find you? All that good stuff.
1:16:12
In terms of what I have going on, I've got a couple of
1:16:14
projects that I'm writing right now.
1:16:17
I actually might be in Denver and I'll, I'll, I'll look you
1:16:21
up. Please do.
1:16:23
And yeah, I've got some feature projects in the works which I'm
1:16:31
very excited about. A few TV shows that, you know,
1:16:35
in this industry, it's like you're always, you're constantly
1:16:37
pitching and one day one hits. I I do have some fun stuff to
1:16:43
announce later this summer, which will be really great.
1:16:48
Yeah, yeah. And, and yeah, in the meantime,
1:16:52
it's just, without getting too specific, it's like it's, it's,
1:16:59
it's nice to have that, that moment where everything
1:17:04
coalesces and, and comes together, where everything that
1:17:07
you've worked on for 20 years and you don't know it's leading
1:17:11
up to certain things, but it, it comes together.
1:17:14
Top Gear was like that, like my, my experience in the production
1:17:17
world intersected with my love of cars.
1:17:21
And even though I didn't know anybody on set first day, it was
1:17:24
just like fell into that rhythm almost immediately.
1:17:29
And are you asking where you can find me on on social media?
1:17:32
What's that if? You're into that kind of thing.
1:17:34
Yeah, yeah, I'm still, I'm, I'm still out there.
1:17:39
I, I don't, I don't post much, but you can find me on Instagram
1:17:43
at Derek Lane Powell on Facebook if anybody still goes there.
1:17:49
And I'm going to say Twitter because to me it's always
1:17:54
Twitter and it's just at Derek Powell and very easy to
1:17:58
remember. Yeah, yeah.
1:18:00
My daughter corrected me the other day.
1:18:02
I said Twitter, and she goes, you mean X?
1:18:04
And it took me a second to even understand what she was.
1:18:06
I'm like, no Twitter. Oh, yeah, Yeah.
1:18:09
But for those of us old guard, it's always Twitter.
1:18:11
Right things we've. Lost I I I refuse to update the
1:18:15
app on my phone. I actually disabled automatic
1:18:19
updates because I still have the bird on my phone and it's going
1:18:21
to stay that way as long as I can have it.
1:18:24
Until someone gets wise and disables that app, I'm going to
1:18:29
run it into the ground. Tweet.
1:18:30
Tweet. Motherfuckers.
1:18:32
Yeah. Tweet, tweet motherfuckers.
1:18:34
Derek, what a pleasure. Talk to you all night.
1:18:36
I hope you will. Come in soon.
1:18:38
So I would love that. I had such a blast.
1:18:40
Thank you so much for having me on.
1:18:42
Thanks so much. Super fun.
1:18:43
Any anytime with Derek Powell is a good time, yeah.
1:18:48
Thanks again. And always be driving.
1:18:52
We're that car show. See you next week.