Latest / Pod Therapy / #388: Helpful Stress, Surviving Twin's Insignificance, Avoiding Employment

Transcript

#388: Helpful Stress, Surviving Twin's Insignificance, Avoiding Employment · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 0:00
  Speaker 2: Were you into Sean Hunter at all? On Boy Meet's World?
• 0:03
  Speaker 3: That was the friend right, Yes, it was Cory. I
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: liked his older brother.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: That's actually Corey's older brother. His name is Eric. Eric.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Okay there it is so good, so okay on.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: The same page.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I appreciate you opening up about
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: your first sexual problem.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Fabulous Vegas. This is pot therapy. Real people are real problems.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: Is are real therapists some bigger questions anonymously at therapy.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Always have therapy guys at gmail dot com and now
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: broadcasting with return.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: That's Jim. That's with me. I don't worry.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: About It is pot therapy.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: What was your first sexual fantasy as a kid? If
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: you want to hear about Whitney's Patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: What was your first crush? What was your first like.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Youthful rush on a TV person?
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, I assume like Charlie Chaplin,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: you know, somewhere right around there, you know, yeah, some
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: of those early.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: The Adventer of the Wheel, Yeah yeah, the little Rascals, Darla.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Everybody on the Andy Griffith Show, Barney.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, mine was fun. What was this bitch's name
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Brooks Shields.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Brooks Shields Ione.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Just random TV show. I don't remember when she was in.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: It was just like god damn, like.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, still all about that. Shields is gorgeous.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Brook Shields his way up there. I mean there was
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: like the common ones of like the models, you had
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: your you know, Michelle Pfeiffer, your.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: We also didn't have TV growing up like we had
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: the you know, the like the three networks.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Basically we could we get NBC. We get NBC, so
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: like Walter CBS.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe a little a b C if the wind
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: was right, and same with Fox.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I think I think those four channels.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: You were you were up at eleven thirty at night
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: jerking off to like that blurry Walter Cronkite, you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: late at night. Yeah, snowy TV, waiting for the signal
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: to catch.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: Why would the TV be snowy for wind is a
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: factor in the connection?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Come on, man? You set yeah with you're scene like
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: you set it up. I was with works. I don't know.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Walter Brookshields was.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Way up there in the early days. What's the other one,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Cindy something.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Cindy Crawford Cindy Crawford.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: God, that was a big one.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she was before your time too, Sidney Crawford.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I woll yeah that's my jam. I can't help myself,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: older woman. Yeah, I wasn't into those other girls my age.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: They tell me it's weird, like how you have these
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: crushes on these old people. Then you watch kids now
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: and they crush on older people, Like what And then you're.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like, what the fuck
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: is wrong with you? Well, like we talked about in
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the Patreon you know area that apparently there's a forty
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: year old beefcake dude in the newly Low and Stitch movie.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And I kept from probably younger.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm upset about it anyway. I don't I don't
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: know if I recommend seeing the movie. I wouldn't say
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: in theaters.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Younger.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: If you have is he really shot up? Wow? Do
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: you have Disney Plus?
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: All right, just wait for it. It's a whole thing.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: To watch the emotions one.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, inside out too. I just watched it again this weekend.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It's it's worth it. That's a that's a good watch,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: that's easy to watch. That's fun, I think, especially as
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a therapist, like seeing how they're doing like this whatever
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: it's called anthrow apologizing? What is that called, Jacob, you
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: said this word the other day and anthrow?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: You remember I said a word you fucking did.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: We had a whole conversation about it. And you use
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: the word and and throw hologizing and throw pomorphizing.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Ye see I told you no, he used it the
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: other day in a sentence he did. That's functional anyway,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the anthrow, pomorphic, anxietyorphousie anxiety. Look, I said, he knows
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: what it is. Yeah, he's only just walking around confirming
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: what I said.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: He knows.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: He knows one hundred percent of the things. Anyway, Nick's
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: not here, which is why the show is just off
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the fucking way. We don't care anymore. There's no grown
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: up supervision. We're doing whatever we want, Nix and I
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: because I'm a bad boy. Yeah, and I am a
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: bad boy. And uh Nick's apparently living it up out
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: in the middle of fucking nowhere. Uh no indoor plumbing
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: and just he's living his best life. So whatever, Nick,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: go fuck yourself. But as for the rest of us,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: here in fabulous Las Vegas, we have some great questions
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: for today's show, and we're kicking off the order with
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: healthy versus Unhealthy stress. Would love your opinion on health
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: versus unhealth stress. For context, I likely have c PTSD
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: from abusive parents.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: What's that mean?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Complex PTSD, So if you're thinking about PTSD is like
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: something that might be based in like an episode of
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: your life. C PTSD is based on your life. So
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: like if you want PTSD a.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Little more complex than regular pts.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Yah, yeah, PTSD is uncle abused me. CPDDSD is I
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: lived with uncle. Yeah yeah, and it just never stopped
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: and so just always happened.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: So that's another way of saying it is just a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: little more complex.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess that that's probably why they say that.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: It's a well named Yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: It almost seems to catch itself right there. Good job, folks, Yeah,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: thank you. And when I was in high school, I
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: noticed if I was alone in my room, I would
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: jump in panic every time someone opened a door, even
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: when I was living in a safe home. But if
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I was on stage doing a play, I was calm
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: and care free. In the past, when talking I think
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: that's talking, yes, taking yeah, in the past, when talking
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: to therapists, They've suggested that this is tied to anxiety
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: and not feeling comfortable with calm, that I should work
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: on meditation and being more okay with peacefulness. Now that
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: I'm older, I've gotten better at this and would like
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: to think I can suffer through a calm Saturday. However,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: for work, I've noticed a familiar pattern if I'm at
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a stable. If I'm at a stable, if maybe a
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: little boring job, I'm uncomfortable, I usually don't last very long.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I find instead I thrive at jobs on small teams
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: where there's always a new fire to deal with. I've
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: noticed starting new companies from scratch is something I've become
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: quite good at. I think a lot of this is
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: just personal preference. I like a good problem and the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: ability to mix things up every day. However, I can't
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: help but notice a similar pattern of thriving in chaos
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and not dealing well with stability. Any suggestions on behaviors
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I can notice, or clues I can look for to
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: give me a sense of if I'm making the decision
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: here or if my childhood is making the call. Thanks
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: PD s D, which I assume sounds for South Dakota.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: I.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: PD is a spokesperson for Sunny Delight.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Oh have you seen the new alcoholic Sonny Delight?
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: No, this is bullshit.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: No, I think it's great because the ones you want
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: to mean, I think it was gross marketed to us.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Just feels it moral.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: This is what I.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Would rather have.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: The purple stuff, Oh, purple drink. I like purple.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: That was their ad there, We're like, oh this purple stuff.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Oh there's sunny, like a picture of purple. Take the
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: purple stuff.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Did you ever drink tang?
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you were more in the tang side of
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: the street.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Tang was already a novelty though when I was a kid,
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: it was established. It wasn't like, oh, we're going to
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: go have a nice thing of tang. It was like, hey,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: let's try tang okay.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So that was like it was already like it was
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: already not a normal.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Was cool? What was the normal?
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Was it?
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Kool aid?
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Kool aid was was very ubiquitous cool, a cool aid, coke, PEPSI.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like tea always existed in my family. It
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: was always just like a picture of tea.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, there might be some tea somewhere. We often
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: we were southern. We had pictures of tea, but it
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: was like it was a picture of tea in my refrigerator.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Right now, tea, did you sweet tea?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I do sweet tea when I'm make it at home.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: See, I make my good old fashioned Louisiana sweets easy.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: But oh, don't tell me it's old fashion unless it's
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: in the orange plastic picture.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: No, it's a it's a last I don't know, buddy,
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: the plastic pictures and the microplastics and all this stuff.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: I buy into all of that, and yeah, I buy
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: into it enough that it bothers me.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I don't buy the new stuff.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I'm with you on that.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't all be bullshit. No, I'm ill, but no,
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: I kind of don't care. Okay, it might all be bullshit,
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: but it bothers me enough just thinking about it that
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: I buy the last one or whatever.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, yeah, this is a complex difficulty, very complex.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, feeling heavy lifting. It is doing something.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: So if I'm reading this right, it's whitey. Yeah, nice,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: well done. That was really good, solid, solid work, just
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: subtle triple on Dondre. So what I see in this
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: question is sort of like the person saying, look, I
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: notice that whenever there's chaos, I'm fine. Whenever it's quiet,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm feeling nervous, I'm feeling electric and looking
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: back in my ch childhood. If I was in a
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: room by myself, as soon as somebody opens the door,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: my reaction is big. It's it's wrong sized, and you'd
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: think that I startle easily. You'd think that, like I'm
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: jittery or I'm squeamish. But you put me on stage,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: you put me in front of other people, I'm great.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: And the same thing today as an adult, Like if
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: i'm if i'm within my own thoughts on a casual Saturday,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I'm restless, I'm not doing well. But then you put
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: me in the melu, you put me in a small
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: group project where there's always a problem. I'm fine, you know,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So like that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I speak a.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Lot of friends, Yeah, speak a lot of that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: And having abusive parents kind of like you shared a
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: moment ago gently, there's that constant. It's probably sporadic. I
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: don't know. They didn't share specifics, which is fine, but yeah,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: I can feel like you're kind of on your toes.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: You have to be on guard at all times. So
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: even when things are maybe more relaxed or chill, like
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: you're in a safe space, eventually you may still jump
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: when something happens because you're like, oh no, I let
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: myself relax, and here we go. Someone opened a door
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: and now I'm.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Like, huh right, what were you? Like?
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: I still do that. I'm like, do I have CPS?
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. Peter will be like, I live here, Like,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: I know, but I didn't hear you another.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I terrify my WiFi regularly.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: Okay, I feel.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Better hearing this. It's horrible just by existing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Walking into a room in my house that I live in. Yes,
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: it's literally the worst thing I could do.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Does she do the backseat driver thing whereas you're driving
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: if there's anything happening, she just.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Gasps, No, that's real PTSD. I feel like I'm very
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I drive us every I am because no, I really
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: think that is PTSD. Because I have been in like
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: two pretty serious car or one really serious one one
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: not so serious. Correct and not including the rear ending.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Patre dot com slash therapy everybody if you want to
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: hear all about.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: But I feel like after that one of them, I
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: was in the rain and couldn't stop. So in my mind,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: it's like, in my mind, oh, you could still hit
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: someone even when you push the bikes. Because I tried that,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: it didn't work. I still hit someone. And then yeah,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: so I guess I just feel like that is like
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: a weird little trigger for me. So I just started
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: looking out the window when he's driving. I feel like
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: we're getting too close. I don't like that. I just
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: look out the window, like.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: If i'm that's kind of me.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: If i'm I'm I'm a nervous passenger if I pay
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: attention to what's happening, and like, I'll find myself starting
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: to get a little nervous, and I'll kind of purposely
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: be like stop paying attention.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, Like you don't need to pay attention to the road.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: It's fine, exactly, they're fine.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: The car is gonna they're driving, They're fine, right.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly, They're fine. So anyway, I very much relate
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: to the like jumping with humans door to room.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: I have worked over the years with a lot of
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: people like this, and I think that I have touched
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: into this a couple of times myself, because I well
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: I work very well when there is a problem. I'm
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: a really good big problem solver. Okay, Like, hey, we
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: have a crazy thing happening. You know, in certain context,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: you'd call it an emergency. You know, here's a thing happening.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I'm really good. Yeah, I'm level headed. I don't get
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: overly emotional about it. And I'm good at just grabbing
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: people and be like, you do this, you do this,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: you do this, We're gonna do this. And I have
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: probably at times in my life, I can't think of
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: any right now, but I've probably at times in my
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: life kind of sewed a little chaos into a work situation.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Probably probably you don't see how you just bring chaos
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: into every fucking situation as soon as there's an opportunity.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Probably I think you were maybe confusing okayferent aspects of
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: my life. Oh yeah, yeah, fine, fine, fine, yeah yeah,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: but yeah, like it like writing shows and things like that.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: There's definitely a part of me that works really well,
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: and I'm aware of it clearly that I work really
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: well under under these kinds of pressures. I know people
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: that I can think of off the top of my
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: head that absolutely do this regularly, and we know it
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: about them, like other other co workers are like, yeah, yeah,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: that's Joe. Joe has to kind of blow it all
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: up and then he puts it all back together.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, and like that's just kind of how Joe works.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: And so if you don't want Joe to do that,
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: don't put Joe on that job.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, Oh but no, I do think that. I
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: mean obviously, like it is a real thing. Jacob's just
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: sharing a great example of that. But yeah, I have
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: friends where it's like, yeah, even if they could sit
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: down on a Saturday, it's like, no, I gotta I
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: gotta like clean the house or I gotta do that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: It's like I can't even sit still because the discomfort
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: is so strong. It's like that feels uncomfortable. So to
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: ease that, they go and do shit or in their
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: minds it's like blowing up something that it's like I
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: have to do this or else, Like it's okay if
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: you don't pull out your stove and clean behind it today,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: like it will be yeakay.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean and even that energy of like the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: other shoe's gonna drop, you know, And like the CPTSD
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't surprise me there where It's like, Hey, you grew
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: up in a situation that there was rarely a sense
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: of stability or safety. There was constantly a new crisis.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And you don't really tell us writer kind of what
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: specifically gave you that CPTSD, But like, I appreciate that
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: energy that It's like, no, I just I don't sit still. Well.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I'm always kind of expecting the new thing. Whereas when
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I'm surfing the wave of the experience, I'm on the
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: edge of it. I'm tipping back and forth. I don't
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: need to wait for the world to happen to me.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I'm happening to the world. Whereas at home quietly on
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: a Saturday, do you get like this, Do you feel restless?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I do, Like, if there's nothing to do and I
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: don't have a project and I'm just kind of supposed
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to rest something about that feels weird to me.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: I have gotten good at the last couple of years
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: at being able to switch off.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: You can do it.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: It'd be like, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna take an
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: hour and fucking chill.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Do you ever feel guilty? Do you ever feel weird?
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Like I certainly have?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I wasted this afternoon?
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: Oh That's why I say, like I've gotten good at
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: it in the last couple of years, Like I wasn't always.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: I feel like I used to be better at it, Yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: but maybe since going into private practice, it kind of
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: seems like there's always like something you could be doing.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Like when when you're self employed or whatever, it's like
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: what else should I be should I've been doing this shit?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Oh my god?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Well that happens all the time in private practice because
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: like you'll you'll have like two sessions in the morning
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: and then you'll have a blank hour or a blank
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: two hours, and so you're like, Okay, I have this
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: break between you know, this part of sessions. In this part,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I need to be doing paperwork or I need to
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: get this thing done or whatever needs to get done.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And like there's this constant sense that if you have time,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: do something with it, because another day you won't have
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: any time.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: And I mean and that easily can all come from
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: you know, home trauma growing up. I mean, if you
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: have an hour to relax, you know at the end
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: of that hour that somebody's coming home, and like you're
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: not gonna be able to even if nothing happens. You're
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: not gonna be relaxed, right.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: I do feel like that has been more self inflicted
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: for myself, like I was the opposite before. Actually, was
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: just thinking about this the other day that like for
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: me personally, I in the past have found TV very addicting.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: For me, I will like some of it is modeled behavior,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: just like modeled behaviors like living in chaos exist. But
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: then I would feel really bad that, like, oh I
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: just wasted my day or I like grotted my brain
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: or whatever. And I used to tell Peter, I'm like, man,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: if we could just not have a TV, I just wouldn't.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: It's like if I could just remove it, I would.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: And He's like, behore, we're gonna wad football. And I'm like, fuck, solid.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Up a good point. Solid brings up a good point.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Don't like that. I'm like, well, so we have TV
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: in the bedroom? No, yeah, we have one TV in
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: our house.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: That's kind of where we draw the line too, Okay,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want to.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: I have the theory on this. My theory is, if
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: you have kids, you want a TV in your bedroom.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: That's fair?
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Why oh, because they.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Then they might be like watching something in.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: The lad Let them Bogart the big TV.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: I'll just want to watch it like an adults.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we watch a lot of porn and it's
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: only in the bedroom because we're responsible.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because that's where the kids hang out.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. Did you guys go back to the
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: living room now, let me alone?
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, sweetie.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: So y'all don't have TVs in your bedroom? Where do
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: you mean, Jacob, I've been to your home. You have
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a big TV in your main room.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: That's pretty much.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: It's on the porch, the porch.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where that was.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: The other place we've thought about was hanging on porch.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like we have we have an outside TV.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Did you'll have garage TVs?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Like I grew up in Vegas? It is too hot? Yeah,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: your ship would be.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we have.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: We have the big one in the in kind of
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: our big room, and we have the one outside, and
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: we have one in our guest wing that like guests
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: watch I guess them.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, we.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Have two others that are sitting in my storage room
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: right now that just are sitting there.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I like the peacefulness. We didn't ever get
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: in a fight about that. But if we stayed in
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: hotel rooms, then the TV's there and I just like
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: kind of addicted, be like, oh, like what's on TV?
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Like I just turned it on Peter B trying to
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: go sleep. He gets so pissed at being sorry, and
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: then I turn it off and he'd be all mad
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: at me the next s.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: J does love hotel TV.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: There's something about hotel the channels that we don't have,
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: like we don't have we don't have any of that.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Chef.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, especially back in the day, is like.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: A hotel and watch h G TV.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. My kids are fascinated by live television, and
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: so when we're at like a hotel, they're like, oh
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: my god, dad, TV's just on right now, And I'm like,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about?
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Like television regular their.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Whole lives, TV has been on demand, like they just
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: sign in, like, hey, watch the show on Netflix, no ads,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: and then they're like, oh my god, something like the
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: other day when not the other day. A couple of
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: years ago, I got my kids a handheld FM radio
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: changed their lives. They were like, oh my god, like
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: there's just playing and you can just I'm like, why
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: would you listen to this like an idiot. Whenever we
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: have Spotify, like they pay for Spotify, it's on your phones,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: pick whatever song you're interested in. Like, no, no, this is
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: way cooler because like there's a whole station and it's
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: just like different songs you wouldn't have thought to listen to.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, dude, this is upsetting.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I miss radio a little bit, not so much the
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: ads and they just repeat the same five songs.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: It's always the same song anyway, So writer the.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, was it like their childhood making the decision
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: or is it them? I feel like that's kind of
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: a really interesting question or thought, which my opinion is
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: that our childhoods are what make us we are today.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I mean in a very like ooh you know.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think your childhood's definitely part of the equation.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, to me, like getting in that headspace where
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: you're finding it that you're really restless whenever you're calm.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I wish I knew this solution to that. I feel
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: the same way, like I just I get like this
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: weird neuroticism of like, oh I'm bad, Like if I'm
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: doing if I'm doing nothing, I'm like oh, I'm letting
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: people down. I should be doing something better. I should
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: be researching or recording something for the show or doing
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: something better. And if I'm not doing anything and I'm
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: just like playing a video game or something like that, Yeah,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: there is this weird like energy.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: That's sort of and then more stuff on. You're like, oh,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: I got I started working here, I started. I'm like jump,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Doing it no, and it just makes my life so bad,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Like I just keep signing up for all these things.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: And then my wife's like, dude, what the fuck? And
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like no, I'm so unhappy, like I need to
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: sell this, and she's like why do you keep doing that?
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm like I don't know, because like when I
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: have downtime, I'm like I need to do something, so
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I take another job.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I am so good at telling people I don't want
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: to work for them.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Ah, you need to come.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Give my friends to call me and they're like, hey,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: can you come, can you come work on this for me?
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And I say yes.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I still I won't even let them pay me because
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't want to work for you. Oh okay,
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: I don't want to do any of like I'll come
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: over and just tell you out a little bit every
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: now and then. Yeah, but like I don't want to.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: I don't want to add anything to it.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Obligation, that's it. You don't want the obligation, that's it.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Like I'm just showing up.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I'll help out if I'm here. It's as a favorite,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: that's right. And that's one hundred percent of the energy.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd rather you owe me than give me one
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Oh that makes so much sense. I know.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: My question too, is like is it can help? But
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: notice the pattern and thriving chaos, like is it a problem?
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting kind of dynamic, right, because it
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: seems like writer has found a way to surf this,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: you know, like they've they've found that like, Okay, I
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: do well with chaos. Let me get myself involved in
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: things that are kind of chaotic and I succeed and
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: like great, kind of feel like.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Those people need to exist in this world.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you're the kind of person that can
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: parachute in and lead the tribe to success. Like we
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: need people like you. It is appreciated that this is
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: a difficult thing on your own though, that when you're
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: trying to just relax, there is this sense of like
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I cannot quite turn my brain off. I always feel
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: like something bad is going to happen, And referencing back
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: to childhood, like I couldn't even be in a room
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: by myself, you know, like if somebody popped in the door.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I was always afraid of what was approaching me and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: like just being caught off.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Guard, especially a lot of those formative years like zero
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: to four, zero five. I mean, gosh, so many neurons
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: are connected to them.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Did you have your own bedroom growing up?
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah I did too.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: I was like, there's only two of you.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I know that. Like a lot of families are a
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: little bit strict about this kind of stuff where sometimes
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh you don't have a door, or like
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: you know, like there's some kind of transparency roles, or
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: like in this writer's case, like people are just kicking
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: in the doors all the time. I don't remember having
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: much of it, like a fear of like people walking in,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: but I do remember being really embarrassed, like if I
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: was like playing with my g I Joe's or something, Yeah,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and somebody walked in. Even though it was a little kid.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I remember feeling like exposed and like scene and being
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: like no, like what an invasion this is, and just
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: feeling like humiliated. Do you relate to that?
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: No, I do. I have one moment still at thirty eight.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: It's ingrained in my mind.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Playing with your barbies at thirty eight, the g.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I Joe's oh g yeah you know what.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: No, I don't know how old I was. Well, I
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: had to be older than eleven because okay, because of
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: a time like away. So I was at least eleven
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: and one of my parents basically like I was doing
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: something weird in the hallway, like dancing, I don't know,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: like something goofy, and then I turned the corner and
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: like one of my parents was there. They were like, oh,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: they were like that was weird.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Oh you got seen, Like yeah, that was weird.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And it was like I felt like a judgmental weird.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: And I swear every time after that, I was like
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I'm weird or like, I don't know, it doesn't sound
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: as boad my state now maybe.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: No, but I get the emotional energy for a kid.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I was just like, I don't know why sat with
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: me I was like, I can't be weird now, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: I hate that weird people are awesome like being weird
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: as being yourself. And there's so much tied into one statement.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that parent doesn't even remember it. They don't
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: even remember it.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I hear that story, and what for me really rings
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: in that is here an adjusted like doing fine therapist
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: is haunted by this easy childhood memory of a parent
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: stepping on their toes emotionally and the writers talking about
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: like legit complex PTSD, yeah right, and so like obviously
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: for them being haunted to the point where they can't
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: function in their day to day household and like on
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: their average weekend is feeling like completely unsettled, like they're
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: doing something wrong or like dangerous right around the corner.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: It is so difficult, it is, and like, I'm really
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: glad that writer's talking, you know, to a therapist about
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: this and doing some work on this complex. PTSD is
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: very very hard to overcome, and like with most PTSD,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: our goal is to sort of like get the splinter
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: out of your brain by like processing it enough times
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and sort of like desensitizing you to it, catching things
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: like hey, why are you reacting? The way you do
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: in this scenario, like it doesn't make sense that you're
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: mean to your family like on a Saturday is because
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: you feel restless or whatever, like and bringing that to
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: your your awareness and then kind of like picking it
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: apart and like working on you know, sort of being
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: different about it. But see, PTSD is so much harder
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: because it's so formative. It's not like, oh, here's who
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: I was before the trauma and here's the weird bend
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I've had after the trauma. Ce PTSD is shaping. Yeah,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: and so it's really really difficult to overcome because like
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it's hard to know where the trauma ends and where
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I begin. You know, it's sort of like at a
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: genetic level, like so to speak.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I'm proud of you that you can suffer through a Saturday. Honestly,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not even joking by saying that. The fact that
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: you are at least trying, like making that effort to
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: like kind of like Jacob said, it took him something.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: He's like took me into the last couple of years
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: to just like it's it's okay that I'm I'm here,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you know, not being busy, and I'm sure there are
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: little itches that pop up throughout that day or whatever
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: where it's like, oh, I could do this, Like nope, I'm.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Here, give or take anyway. Writer, good luck with this.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I love hearing that you're working on it.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I mean I wish we could, you know, I tell you,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: here's one weird trick to solve it. It's not that way,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, but I guess I would do want to
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: normalize what you're going through, because this stuff is formative,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: it is haunting, and you know, even with good therapy,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: it doesn't always go away. But what does happen is
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: we become very aware of ourselves and our reactions, and
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: so like we might not be able to control our
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: first reaction, but we can think it through as it's happening,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: and we get better and better at like slowing that down,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: which is tremendous because like obviously, when somebody walks in
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: and says, oh, hey, do you want to go to lunch,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: we don't want your energy level to feel threatened or
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: you know, bring this kind of like antagonism against that person.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: We don't want that to be what they sense in you,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and we don't want that to be the way you
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: emote at them right, And so like the fact that
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: you're doing that personal work, catching these things, slowing that down,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: becoming self aware and processing it out is tremendous and
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: it's tough because like in these scenarios sometimes we can
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: even tell family members like, hey, it's not you. But
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: like I am startled really quickly if somebody comes into
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: a room, and like there's value to that, Like I
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: do see the value of like teaching people about ourselves,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: and I can also see the other side of that,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: which is like, hey, this is my thing, and like
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I need to work on this. I can't ask the
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: world to accommodate me. So it is a hard thing. Writer.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: But listen, I'm glad that you're working on this. I
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: appreciate the letter. I appreciate shining a light on this
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. We don't get enough chances to talk
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: about c PTSD, and I just feel like you just
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: humanized it, which is really really necessary. Anyway, we're gonna
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: take a quick break and when we come back, we're
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: talking about feeling like I don't matter. You're listening to
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: pop therapy something.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Do you know it? What you you have that part
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: of the script, I mean, you sent me the script.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Is it written down to today's episode of That to
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: You by Jay Schneider, Richard Macy, Sunny Boy, Thunder Cooger.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: Falcon Soup, Slippery motherfucker, Sandra mcwaffle, and Gabriel Adam.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Would you have a sponsor a show?
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: Become a therapy partner at dot com Therapy?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Wow?
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, good job Nick, he wrote things and Jacob actually
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: reads the script. All right, So Emma's new horse is
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: a pony soprano because everybody's aware that is the official
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: new horse. Okay, good Because all right, you may be
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: a bit fucked because today's questions are about the soprano,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: all right, and I have all the answers. You two
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: are facing it off, and it's a two points if
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: you shoot from the hip or you can take.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like he has a good answer. That's true,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: all Whitney, We're going to give you the first shot here.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: What is the name of Tony Sopranos therapist two from
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: the hip, or you can get the options options all right,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Option A Gloria Trillo, Option B Lorraine Brocco, Option C
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: doctor Jennifer Melfie, or Option D doctor Elliott Kopferberg.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: The first who didn't have doctor in front of them.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: They did not.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: Then she got it right, Doctor Jennifer Melphy, I get
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: on the board ones that was covered contents.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I feel since he had those ducks in the first episode,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I got very.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Solid show that that actually really resonates. And speaking of which,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: number two, Jacob, what kind of animal does Tony become
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: obsessed with in season four seeing it as a symbol
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: for his family?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: No options until you ask for them?
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, helped you for this episode one.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: She's got an encyclopedic knowledge.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: That sounds vaguely from options.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Give me the options are a bear, a duck, a dog,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: a deer.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Raising animals?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: All right, get that point there?
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: It is there we go.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Well done, Whitney.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Back to you, who was the first major character to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: die on the show.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: In season one?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Spoiler alertly.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Alright, your options are Jackie Alprelay, Senior Brendan Filone, Pussy Bond,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Penn Cerro or Richie a Prelay.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Actually no, the third one. We're watching the second episode
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: where the like the teacher's car is stolen the kids
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: like Pussy says.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, what what?
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know because.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: That's only pussy Bond. Penn Sierro is in correct. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: you know what, I'm not going to tell you the
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: right answer because I don't want to ruin it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, it doesn't matter.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: All right, you're good, You're good, You're good, all right.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: So they wasn't him?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: One to one to zero a ka a tie game?
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Good job every way. Don't not get another question?
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: You bet you're asked, you do, my man? Here we go.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Question number four. What is the name of Tony's favorite
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: strip club, which also serves as a front for his operations?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Is that that is the it's a good name.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's the Bottom Ban Bottom Ban, that is. Yes.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Jacob jumps to three and takes a commanding lead in
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the game. Well played, sir, well played. Good damn show
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: that is? So you know how I'm supposed to watch
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: a show and completion for forty four?
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Do you need me to get the killer out?
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: No?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Please, don't, please, don't any fact. But I've been working
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: on a watching a show. I've been watching Archer. Oh
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: my god, would that count?
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Funny?
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of seasons, so I'm like, I'm just
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: working through season one.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You know what, Jim I feel like you're slowing yourself
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: down enough. I don't think you need our help.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, did you watch all of Archer? It counts Yeah, okay, great,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I'll take a win.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: I have a question, though, somebody sent you the strawberry
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: plant to grow a strawberry that.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Died, that died that.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know why you even ask, and it's hurtful
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: that you brought it up that he grows and eats. Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Emma sent me a strawberry plant and I grew it
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: and there was a strawberry, but I didn't eat it
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: because I was like, I don't think it's ready yet,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: and so I kept it out of my porch. And
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: then the whole fucking thing.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: You're an idiot.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I should just fucking that strawberry. That right off
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the list.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: You know what you should do is just next time
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: you're out the store, get the green onions and just.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Just a little that's what.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, See, this is why a lot of
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: the things on my list I'm not that scared about,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: because like the dolphins, that's not that hard. Like, if
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: you're in the ocean, there's dolphins in the ocean. Now,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: what is the proximity rule, Jacob, you like be with
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the dolphins proximity intimately because that's illegal everywhere, Okay to
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Thailand it is. Then yeah, you can go to home
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: depot and you can just buy a strawberry bush and
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: it will have strawberries on it, and once I won't
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: have them if I have the receipt. At what point
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: do we know that I've grown this object?
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: You'll know, don't. You don't my conscience, you'll know.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: No.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Fuck now, I.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Don't like this game now now now I have to
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: sit here and feel this like internal sense of shame, shame, shame, whatever,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: feeling like I don't matter perfect Nick Whitney, Jacob and
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: j fuck Nick. Fairly new listener, I heard the cue
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: might be running low, and I thought, why not ask
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: a question? Bear with me, as this one may take
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit to unpack. I'm a male, and I'm
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: also a twin, or I was a twin, once a twin,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: always a twin. My brother Caleb drowned in a swimming
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: pool when we were seven or eight. I remember bits
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and pieces of him, of the funeral, and how things
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: changed immediately after. I didn't fully grasp what losing him meant,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and I'm still kinda I still kind of can't because
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm being forced into living for both
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: of us. After his death, my parents kind of weaponized
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Caleb's memory against me. When good things happen in my life,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: they'd say it's because he's watching over me growing up.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: When I made even the slightest mistake, failed to class,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: got into a fight forgot to call home, they'd tell
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: me that Caleb was disappointed and ashamed of me.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Fuck.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: This trend has continued into adulthood. My dead brother gets
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: all the credit for the successes, and every time I
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: missed up, I'm reminded by my parents of how I'm
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: a disgrace to him. Because of this, I've never felt
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: like i'm enough on my own. I'm not just me,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I'm what's left of us. Fast forward to nowish. My
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: wife and I are expecting our first child. It's going
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: to be a boy, and we're thrilled. However, my mother
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: became fixated on us. Oh, you guessed it, Caleb. She said,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: it's the right thing to do and the only thing
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. Bullshit. Then a few weeks ago, my
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: mother passed away unexpectedly. Wow as you can imagine we're
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: all still in shock. It's bringing back a lot of memories,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: both good and bad, emotional and difficult. I tried to
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: pull my dad aside the other day and comfort him
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: by telling telling him that Mom is with Caleb now,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: and he absolutely lost it on me. He told me
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I had no right to talk about either of them
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: that way, and that I don't understand anything. I feel
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: like I've let everyone down, my mom, my dad, my brother,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: But mostly I feel like I don't have a voice
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in my own life. I want to honor my family,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: but I also want to build something new with my
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: wife and our son. I want my child to be
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: his own person and not a constant reminder of the
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: grief I've spent my whole life caring. Am I being selfish?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Is it too much to ask to leave the past
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: in the past and build my own life? How do
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I help support my dad without angering him. I don't
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: want to forget the memories I have of my brother.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I don't want to forget my mother or go against
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: her wishes either, But at some point, I just want
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: to know what it feels like to not be a
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: constant disappointment to those that are supposed to be closest
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: to me. Thanks, Adam, you.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Have to name your son mother.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Oh that's it, okay, or we had some leftover names
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: from the horse context, okay, Pony Soprano's off the table, Adam,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: you can't have it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: But George Bush hates black babies. That is offensive. It
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: was clearly horses.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Oh dare you?
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Oh dare you?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Sully the game?
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: But the writer doesn't have a horse.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, you know what expecting a horse hates
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: black full name. Writer to your problem, my man, you
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: know what you were writing into.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Well, First of all, I'm sorry for so much loss. Yeah, yeah, congratulations,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, And I bet that feels weird.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: I'll bet like being happy about something has gotta feel weird.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: My god.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you have the right to be it's it's a
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: wonderful thing. You have the right to be happy about it.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: You have the right to uh you certainly, as you
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: know intellectually, you have the right to name this baby
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: anything you want to name it, as long as it's Jacob.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: That one's taken. Yeah, you can't have it, but no,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: it's it's it really is fascinating.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Please name your son Jacob. Junior. Of course.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: There's a level we could we can direct some Patreon money.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: We get pay for this kid's college if they're willing
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: to sell naming rights.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: If you name this kid Jacob junor just forever, You're like,
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: who's the junior from this podcast?
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: James Adam. But it's a good name. I don't expect
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: to name that kid after my last name.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, that would be silly.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: That would be ridiculous.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: You're toping ridiculous.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: We're talking about a serious stuff.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Of course, this is a human being they need to know.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: But you know, it really is fascinating. I mean, you
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: think about how I think identity developed. This this component
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: is like it's one thing to lose a sibling, right,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and like that's already transformative, and it would definitely change
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: your family. And of course it's gonna just fuck up
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: your parents, right, and they are going to be different
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: to you for the rest of your life. And clearly
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: they coped by constantly referring to the lost sibling as
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: a way of like, you know, being okay with you know,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: celebrating you and being okay with being happy that somehow
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: there is this tipping of the cap to the lost child.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: An old friend of mine had this happened to her.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: She had one of her children die and her youngest
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: and she has I believe three surviving children that are
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: I think all of them are teenagers. Now one of
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: them might be like a preteen or something, but they're
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: they're in that age group. And yeah, I see her
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: when when I see her in person, when I see
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: her online, she copes by talking about him every day.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: That is, you know, she talks to other children about him,
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: She talks to strangers about him, She talks to friends
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: about him. You know that that is just how she
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: copes with it. I know other people that have lost
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: children that you know, they have never mentioned their their
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: children again after that. But yeah, this particular woman, you know,
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: that's it sounds kind of like your parents, you know,
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: they they do just they're so like I know, but
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: you know, part of it, to me looks like they
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: are so desperate. They're so very desperate to keep that
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: memory alive that they're doing anything they can to keep
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: that memory alive.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: It's a tremendous burden and they're doing it.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Uh And I say this word with with love, but
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: they're doing it thoughtlessly.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they are not thinking about how that is affecting
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: other people like yourself, right, And it's and it's hard
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: to it's honestly hard to ask them to yeah, because
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: it is a it's such a shitty thing, and I.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Mean it's such shitty thing that like it's it's a
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: shitty thing that happened to everyone.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: No, no, one is obviously good from from this.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: No.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, like you do you see
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: that from time to time.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: You do, And you know, it's interesting because you think
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: about Adam's situation. I mean, it's one thing to lose
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: a sibling already, I think is just a earth shattering reality.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: It's another thing for your parents to have lost the child,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: which is going to fundamentally change them for the rest
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: of your experience with them. But then to add in
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: this component that this is your twin that your twin
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: brother who was in your life for seven or eight years,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: you know, and then you lose this person and like
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: enough time's gone by that you can remember them the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: way you remember like an early childhood friend, you know.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: Like yes, guilt and the guilty goes along with that, right,
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: Like I remember this person as a friend, not as
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: a sibling like that's got and that's got to be tricky.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: With the parents too, sure, who are constantly dealing with
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: their own coping by holding vigil you know, for the
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: lost child. And then here you are, and it's like
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: you would feel guilty or dishonorable to not bring them up.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: And then here's a moment where your mom passes, and
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: of course your first way to try to like help
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: your father and appease him or try to, you know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: just soothe him is to bring up the thing he
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: and mom have been saying for years, right, which is like, hey,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: she's with Caleb. Now, sure that's what we always said,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: that was the ritual, and then shut the fuck up.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I can't handle this, and that that opens up a
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: ton of questions for me, right because like I'm curious,
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: like for Dad, maybe that was mom's coping skill.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Did wonder today, like maybe.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: That was more Mom in the system. And Dad just
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: kind of like yep, nod in his head going with
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it to say, it's not personally good for him to
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: hear that or dwell upon that, but he can see
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: that his spouse is coping with that. He too feels
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: a softness for the loss this is fine, and now
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: it's it's like the straw that broke the camel's back.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I really would go throughout that when you were
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: growing up in all of that pressure put onto you,
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: and then with your mom passing now and your dad
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: reacting to that way, all of that is them. That
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: is their way of coping, way of rationalizing, way of
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: bringing him up. Still like none of that, sadly has
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: anything to do with you. Really, like that is all
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: of them. I can't imagine losing a child. I've I've
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: had cousins who have passed, and my aunts are never
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: the same, They're never like it's it's a dark, a
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: dark path to watch, and so uh you being and
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: it sounds like the only other living sibling, Like there
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: were there was only the twins and now just one.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: You are carrying all of that through childhood and now
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: into adulthood with your mom passing. Man, it's got to
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: feel really lonely. We could go into a little bit
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: of like birth order stuff. My opinion is that when
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: children grow up as like only children, there is a
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: there can be a lack of a sense of like
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: reality almost to like what you experienced growing up. It
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: can make you feel a little like crazy sometimes or
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: like unsure of what you went through and having all
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: of that trauma wrapped in that and growing up as
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: basically an only child since age seven or eight, Like, oh,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: fuck me, that is a lot to sit with. And
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: so I think I I mostly just want to remind you, Adam, that,
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: as much as I can, this is not about you.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: Your dad snapping on you. He's lost a child and
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: he's lost his wife now, and I'm so sorry that
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: he did snap on you, because I would be just
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: as confused and hurt and shocked as you are. And
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: then going into like, wow, I thought I was doing
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: the right thing. This is what I've been told and
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: trained my whole life growing up, and here I am
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: coming in, I'm doing the right thing. I'm saying the
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: right thing, and just whip right back and it's just
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: you two left, Like that has to be just shocking,
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's that's just him and his grief right now.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: And I really encourage you, like it's not your job
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: to have to say everything right way, like, please try
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: and let go of that. And I say that very
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: oversimplifying that statement, yeah, because we're.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Just that, Yeah, yeah, we don't want this to be
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: your burden to the point where you're so supposed to
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: know the very delicate dance of what Dad needs in
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: a given moment. How can anybody know, Even though you
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: are a part of his system and you know him
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: very well and you grew up with him, no human
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: can possibly know what this man is all about.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Right now.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: He lost a kid. Whenever that kid was seven or
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: eight years old, he raised a surviving twin son growing up.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Throughout your life, Adham, whether you liked it or not,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Dad looked at you sometimes and thought of Caleb. And
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: there is no words for what that experience was like,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: even in your finest moments where he's like, look at
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: my young man, he's growing up. I'm so proud of him.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: And yet what about Caleb? Is this dishonorable that I
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: love Adam so much and I'm so excited for Adam,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Like all of that weird survivor guilt that you've been
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: enmeshed with your entire life. Your father was Party two
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: and now here he's lost the only other human who
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: fully shared his story. And it sounds like she was
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: a little off. She had adapted in her own ways.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: All of us would look at a human who went
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: through that and think, well, the mom's gonna lose it,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Like she's just going to be a different person, a
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: little cuckoo after that. Sounds like Mom was pretty eccentric
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: in some ways, yes, and pretty imposing in some of
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: her coping skills, and it, you know, sounds like you
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: relate to that based on what you're sharing. And I'm
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: sure Dad kind of saw that sometimes and thought I'm
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: picking my battles like I'm not gonna, you know, get
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: involved and fight this woman on this stuff. She's broken.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I'm broken.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: You see a lot with more strong personality people, they
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: will have partners who kind of go along with right, So.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if one person kicks it into high gear, the
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: other one's kind of like becomes a passenger and it's like, look,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not really gonna stir up a lot, but I'm
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: just going along with this. And so writer, it's interesting
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: because like Mom was the one pushing you to say,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: you're having a son replace my dead son, right, like
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: name him after your brother. That is honorable, that's what
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: you're meant to do. You didn't quite comments in your
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: letter giving us any clues to what Dad wants. I
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: think the only clues we got were that Dad is hurting,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: and that when you tried to soothe the dad with
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the common ritual of the family, Dad's sort of snap.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And I think for Whitney and I we're interpreting that
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: in all sorts of ways, like that could mean Dad
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: was sort of hostage to Mom's emotions too all this time,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: and it's sort of like please fucking stop, like that's enough, right, Yeah,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: there could be this like anger of like, hey, I
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: dealt with this shit for a long time from your
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: mother and like that's enough. I don't have words for this,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: but this just fucking hurts, and it never felt good
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: to constantly bring this up, and I don't want to
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: hear this shit anymore. Maybe it could just be that
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Dad's just in a bad place and he's grieving and
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: he's raw, and he just doesn't have words and he
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: does want to be soothed. Right now, we're told anything
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: good because it feels dismissive of a loss that cannot
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: be calculated. It's impossible for us to fully get a
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: grip on like what the realities are. But you do
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: bring up this sense of like just over assuming personal responsibility,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: especially with mom being gone. And look, I know you
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: don't need permission from some voices on your phone and
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: on a podcast, but it helps. But it helps because
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: I do want us to recognize that from our chairs here,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: we look at this and we say, look, the story
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: that you came from and the tragedies that you've survived,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: you do not owe your child's life to that history.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: And that's a really important thing. Like so many humans,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and especially just to take it to American history for
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: a moment, how many people had escaped incredible histories and
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: incredible times in their country of origin and came to
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: America and got this whole fresh start and have this child.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: And there could be the sense of like, I need
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: to pay homage to the stories and the legacies and
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: the histories and the peoples that have delivered me up
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: to this moment and the incredible but then you realize
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: none of that shit will matter to this kid. This
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: kid deserves to have a completely fresh start. They do
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: not need to have our legacy and our history constantly
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: pulled over them as if they owe something to the past.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to burden them with that. And of course, Adam,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: you've lived that. So, like, I think you, more than anybody,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: understand how important it might be to not burden your
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: son with any reference to the past.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I say, how wonderful that your child hopefully will
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: never know what that pressure feels like because of what
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: you've been through. Like, yeah, I can imagine that that
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: will be one of the things you fight for the most,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: is giving your child their individuality.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, they've been through this. You mean you lived with this,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: you know aching and this constant you know peace, And
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: of course it is only a tragedy that you've lost
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: your mother. It is only a tragedy. I'm not going
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: to say there's any silver lining to this. It is
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: only a tragedy. She also was the one who apparently
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: was the historian and the one who is kind of
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: carrying the torch of the past as her main coping skill.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: And so I do think that your son, you don't
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: have to worry that your son's going to be constantly
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: told about this, or that you're going to be I
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: think shamed for not naming your son Caleb. I think
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: from what I'm picking up, your father doesn't necessarily hold
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: all that thinking. And so it sounds like you are
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: sort of free to move forward, which itself I think
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: can make a guy feel really ashamed, especially if his
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: whole life he's been sort of told like the honorable
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: thing is to reflect on your brother and to think
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: about this. And now you're sort of free of that
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: because the court or the torch bearer, your mother is
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: no longer here at that table, holding that space, but
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: like we still feel the gravity of her words and
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: like what she would say in all these scenarios. And
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that that unspoken content is there between you
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: and your father, But I think over time that that dwindles,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: and I think over time you feel freer and freer
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: to move on.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's complicated too, because sometimes when people, especially
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: die unexpectedly in the midst of of such life changing events,
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: it's like you don't really have a chance to even
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: have closure about it, like I would imagine. I would
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: imagine it's hard to not be like, well, okay, I
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: want to name my child something else, and I didn't
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: even have a chance to like just let my mom
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: know that, you know what I mean, Like the closure
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: that comes with sorting through that, it's just feels like
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: betrayal instead, which.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Adam talks about like the sense of like I'm not
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: honoring my mother's wishes, And look, I want to be
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: careful because like in my personal family and my personal culture,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: I don't have that sense of like I'm dishonoring an
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: older generation by not obeying what they tell me to do.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: I say whatever I want, you know, but like I
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: respect that there are cultures where that's not how this works.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: You know, like it is normal to obey your elders,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: even on something as intimate as naming a child, and
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: like they have a vote and it is really important
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: to you, maybe religiously, maybe culturally, And so I want
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: to respect that, Adam, even though you didn't give us
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: that subtext, you do talk about like struggling with feeling
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: like you're not fulfilling your mother's final desires here, And
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: so I guess I just look at that and I say,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I want to be really careful because I
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: don't want to step on your cultural toes. I don't
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: want to presume to know what's right in that scenario.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: But boy, therapeutically, I want to talk a lot about
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: authenticity and I really want this is your child, and
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: like this is your family, and it's your future, and
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Caleb is part of your family tree, but he is
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: not this child, yeah, you know, and I relate to this.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I mean like I had a friend die of cancer
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: and there was this time in my life where I thought,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: if I had another son, I would name my son
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: after my dead friend. And I kind of went through
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: an experience with that for a while, and then we
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: were pregnant and we were kind of preparing to find
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: out the gender and I remember thinking, like, you know,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: am I going to follow through on that? Because I
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: had shared with some people like that was my intention,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: and I kind of was thinking that through at the
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: time of like if this turns out to be a boy,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: am I going to do that? And I remember before
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: we learned the gender, deciding for myself.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: No.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: I think that I've honored my friend as and I've
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: cried as many tears as I can, and I've given
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: as much, you know, like homage of pain as I'm
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: meant to give. And a child is a celebration of
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: the future. And I want this person's life to be
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: defined by this other person's story. That has nothing to
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: do with that.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: It's also putting baggage on the kid.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: It really is it?
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Really is?
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Well, and that I gotta tell you there's very little baggage.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: No, there's no baggage.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: I mean you want you.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: To be very serious about it, Yeah, to be very serious,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: unlike my asshole co hosts. You want to choose a
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: name that's presidential, you know, you want to choose a
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: name that is athletic, you know, equine, Yeah, a name
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: that resonates with history, that moments, Yeah yeah. And he
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: also speaks to culture and speaks to the nuances of
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: race ye black people.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: So I got it.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Georgie for sure.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Rock Hussein, Obama Junior. Oh, Whitney.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: If you ever randomly get pregnant, I really hope you
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: bring it to the and just try the people. We
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: will pay this kid's college.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: But if you want to name your kid Jacob, that's great,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: that's fine.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Or George Bush hates black people either way completely, or
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama or Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Also on
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: the board, nobody was bold enough to put it up there,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: but I wanted to see it.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine that your child would have any drama
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: attached to that.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Not at all. By the time there are like ten
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: people won't even remember anymore practically ancient history anyway, by Adam,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: good luck with this, Thank you for writing in. It
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: is a great opportunity to reflect on the nuances of
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: a very very unique situation. But friend, at the end
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: of the day, I'm sure anybody hearing this story is
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: thinking as we're thinking, boy do we hope this gets
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: to be your story. We hope this gets to be
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: your child's story, and the sadnesses of people lost in
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: the past can be about their names and their truths
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: and their history through your eyes, but that this child
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to bear their name as some kind of
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: penance for something they never experienced. So I hope that's
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: something you're free of. But again, I want to respect
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: your culture, your truth, your history, and I just hope
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: that there's somebody in your life, hopefully a therapist, that
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: you're talking through this intimately with and just getting out
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: those feelings, and hopefully with your spouse, because that can
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: be something very nuanced where they're not sure how to
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: correct you or challenge you because they don't want to
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: hurt you. They know you're going through so much loss,
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: but perhaps in their mind they're thinking I don't want that,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: you know, and like I don't want to feel dishonorable
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: to you by taking those off the table. So I'm
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: not going to say straight up no, but if you
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: ever lean towards the might have a problem with it.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: And so like, it's just really good to make sure
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: you're talking in therapy about this kind of stuff, because
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I think you're gonna get to better answers.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: On that faster.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Anyway, Adam, good luck with that. We're gonna take a
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: quick break and when we come back, we're talking about
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: unemployment avoidance.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: You're listening to pod therapy.
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: Today's episode is brought to you by people and other
• 59:21
  Speaker 6: people and Jake Schneider and Malia and Richard Macy and
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: Sonny Boy and under Cooper Fact Scoop and Sturt the
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: Kid Motherfucker and Sandra mcwaffle and Alena and Gabriel Madame.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Just wanted to show how somebody else I want to.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I just like to mix it up all right, Back
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: to this pony soprano trivia. The game is currently Jacob
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: and the lead with a solid three commanding lead. Some
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: might say Whitney with a paltry one, but she's ready
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty proud.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Based on two episodes of viewing proud. Yeah, you are
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: not doing as bad as one man.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: What's that thing in school? The weighted great is right?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Curve curve that thing? Question number five for Whitney, what
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: does Carmela that very good? Often?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: She got it?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: What is what does she sibstentially struggle with throughout the series?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Existentially?
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, options, gambling, addiction, her own criminal past, her
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Catholic faith, and complicity in Tony's misgivings or personal substance abuse.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: I think see that is correct degrees. Girl got it.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: She's staying compared to me, and I like that, right, Yeah,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: that's the catholic one. I like that. We're also giving
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: you some things to look forward to.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: I'll forget it anyway, no.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Spoilers, and like, has he ever seen it? Watched?
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: He has?
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: He watched the second episode with me. He's like, you
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: want watch another one?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, no, it is very it's so good.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: I think I watched the first two seasons and then
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: they kind of drifted away, but yeah.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: No, it's Oh they referenced so much ship that is
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: so old. They're stealing like laser players.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: I was like, laser.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: They're like between DVDs and records.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I remember those.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: You never had laser discs in school growing up, Damn.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: That's the only place I ever saw them was in school.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I only ever saw them.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: They play them on a TV or.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: Like school districts would invest in them because they thought
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: that was going to be like the future technology.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Too small, I think laser disc That must have been
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: part of laser disc's business plan was get them into
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: silves and get kids comfortable with them.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then hope they were they really were.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: They were. They were DVDs that were the size of
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: a record album.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: They were huge.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: They were just ridiculous, and they were so expensive.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: Yes, and they didn't like they didn't record as much
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: data on one as you would think they should, so
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: you'd still have to switch the disc.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole thing. VHS was just way superior and cheap.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: And she was Yeah, so totally that was the way
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: to go.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Well, good, I'm glad we got to cover that. Jacob
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: back to You, which character is revealed Oh closure ears Whitney,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: which character is revealed to be an FBI informant in
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: season two.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Oh is that pussy? That might be pussy? Yeah?
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Oh no, she heard me.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know what the question was.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Oh goody later, But all right, okay, you get two points.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: You are sitting around at five to Whitney's two. Back
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: to Whitney, Whitney, what does Tony feed to the ducks
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: in his pool? In the pilot episode This girl was
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: made for you? I mean, come the fuck on. I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: know it's fifty percent of all the episodes you've ever seen.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: I know, but I watched that one like two months ago.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, two episodes options?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, bread, corn, sausage, or crumbs from a canol?
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: How is one of the options not duck food? I know,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: it's just.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Like a responsible duck arm. You said crumbs of bread, corn, sausage,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: crumbs from a canole.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: I feel like my sea has been my ride or
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: die so.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Lifted she heard Sea has been working it.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: I know feels weird, but I feel like they would
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: the canoli. It's hard to not choose that.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with sea sausage. False it is corn?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Who would feed sausage to ducks?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: My ducks loved corn?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, you should have picked corn.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: I thought you was an idiot.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Are ducks carnivores?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Can they eat?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: They eat kind of anything.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like they.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Eat duck food. We throw it out and it would
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: like find it was like give me that.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I love it when I love how they stab the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: water with their beaks.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: And it's aggressive.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: That's exciting. Jacob, did already give you two in this round?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: I say yes, Let's say yes.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Because you are crushing.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: Don't matter, You're going to just.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Got you by a lap. Last question of the night,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: feeling like I don't matter? Nick Whitney, Jacob, Jim, Wait
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: a minute, fairly new listener, Nope, that was the one
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: we already did. Last question of.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: The night unemployment avoidance, Jim, Nick and Whitney. I'm a
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: long time listener, first time caller. I'm writing in today
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: because I know your question Q reservoir is running.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Fuck you.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: But I could also use some life advice. If only
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: there was a certified.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Life coach, I could ask, heyway jumping straight almost five
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: years now, and I feel incredibly guilty about it, specifically
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: towards my parents but also myself. My parents are the
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: ones that financially support and I feel like a leech
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: that's just sitting around watching life pass me by.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair to leeches.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: I think leeches do a lot of work to do, gather,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: they work, they have to find things to feed on.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they just do a lot of work. I think
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: you're really under selling the.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Fair the mighty leech ignorant.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: I've worked a couple of jobs postgrad, and I've been
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: at two different jobs for just under four to five
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: years total.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: But my last job got burnt out and depressed. Probably
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: got me burnt out.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, yep, I got burnt out.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: But at my last job, I got burnt out and depressed,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: which made me quit on my own terms.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: It was a very comfy job, but I really couldn't
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: take it.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: I was almost suicidal and abusing alcohol and weed, sometimes
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: smoking on the job to numb the pain. During this time,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: I started leaning into exercising way more, using exercises a
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: way to give myself pain that I felt I deserve.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: Fast forward a couple of years, I've successfully quit the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: alcohol and the weed and have still been hitting the gym,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: working out almost daily, learning to love it. I'm working
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: on my full driver's license, and I'm trying to build
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: up something more meaningful. Yep, Okay, I'm making good general progress,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: but I still feel very lost in my career and life.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: I've been lost for the past five years.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: Sure, the years are getting better, but in comparison to
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: the people around me, I'm so way behind in terms
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: of most people.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: I'm trying my best, but I still feel like a loser,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: which makes me avoid people.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: I carry this shame and guilty I'm not worthy of
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: people because I can't provide for them, especially a problem
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: in meeting new people and in dating, which I'm also
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: avoiding right now. See the pattern. I know I shouldn't
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: compare myself to other people. You know we're gonna say
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: that you've listened.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Monches, you asshole.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: I know I shouldn't compare myself to other people. And
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: I know there's more to life than having a career
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: and or money. I'm aware I don't need to provide
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: to have worth. I have many different attributes that can
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: provide value, but I can't shake this feeling off that
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: I need to be working. Problem is I now have
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: an avoidance of work. I don't want to look for
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: a job. I don't want to have to go through
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: rounds of interviews proving my worth. I don't want to
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: embarrass myself. I don't want to be seen. It makes
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: my knees weak. I also don't have any IRL friends,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: and I only leave my house to go Jim and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: run basic errands. I assume I have a lot of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: trauma and guilt around working, given my natural avoidance to
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: the subject, but my environment is also very enabling to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: these avoidance behaviors. I attribute most of my behaviors to
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: pass discomforts at work events, but also my upbringing. Do
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: you have any insights or advice on how I can
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: move forward to be less avoidant of my fears and
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: feelings of inadequacy. I'd love to not be so avoidant
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: about everything. Love the show, Keep it up U three ps.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: I love you too, Jacob PPS. But Jim's what is
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: that supposed to say?
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Neuroticism?
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: That's probably it. But Jim's neuroticism feeds my soul. Thanks
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: for all the laughs, Jim. I appreciate you more than
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: you could ever know. Fuck the police, the police, Sam
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: signed cunt wallet Battleship Destroyer two.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: Oh good. I'm glad that there's a two because I
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: wouldn't want to get you confused. Thank you, cunt wallet,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: battleship destroyer, Prime Prime Senior Esquire. I'd hate to see
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: that happen. This is a really good question. Yeah, this
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: is really really good just and I get the impression
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: that writer doesn't give us any time stamps to tell
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: us how old they are. I'm getting the earlier side
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: of life, you know, I'm kind of It gives vibes
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: of like I'm getting my license, you know, I'm kind
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: of like looking for self identity, looking for work, but
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm avoidant of work. I don't want to look
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: for a job. I don't want to go through interviews.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I don't want to try to prove my worth. I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: don't want to feel that sense of embarrassment. I don't
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: want to feel exposed. That is so fucking relatable.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: That is especially if you're in an enabling environment, like oh,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: it is really hard to pull out of that because
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: it's like when we talk about anxiety or treating anxiety
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: or obsessive compulsive behaviors, the hardest thing is not as
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: having family members who are enabling. It's like, oh did
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: I did I lock my bedroom door. Can we turn
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: around and do it and do it? Because they're like, oh, well,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: there's no harm in a minute late, you know, whatever
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: the story is in their mind, but they do it,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: and so that just feeds like feeds the monster kind of.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: And so if you are in an environment where they're like,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: you don't have to worry, just take your time, work
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: on you. They care about you, it sounds like, you know,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: they're they're trying to be carrying towards you, but you're like, uh,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: it just doesn't help. I don't have I have a
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: lot of anxiety around getting out there applying for jobs.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: Probably could be due to pass you know, struggles and jobs.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: If you're a fucked up experience at a job, it
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: doesn't make you really want to go get another one.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: Right well, and writer seems to already kind of struggle
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: with this sense of like self worth. I mean this
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: this point that the writer kind of made very subtly
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: about I was working out to experience a pain that
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: I felt I deserved. And that's tricky, you know, yeah,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: because like okay, you know, Freud talked a lot about
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: positive neuroses and like all right, you know, like we
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: find these ways to cope with life. And maybe they're
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: not bad. Like I'm not out there, you know, shooting
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: up drugs. I'm over here getting healthier and people admire
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: that I'm working hard on my body or things like that.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: But like, fundamentally, it's a it's an expression of self hatred.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Like it's self harm in a way, but like geared
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: in a positive light. I don't have an answer for that.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to simplify it and say a good
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: thing or bad thing, but it's it's fascinating. I think
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: it's very interesting.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: I to speak to that a little bit. I don't
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: know that I maybe do it. I don't know what
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: the writer's doing, to be honest when they say, like
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: I'm working out to the point of pain, but I
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: do sometimes when I'm feeling very anxious, I'm like, I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: just want to go, like go on a run. But
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: the point on the run is to like almost feel
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: your lungs, that that pain in your lungs when you're
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: like breathing. I don't know, do you know what that.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 6: Where?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: It's just like that sharp pain almost in your like
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: esophagus or something. Right, Yeah, I don't know, it almost
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: like it tickles my brain or something. It's like there's
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: something to a version of that that makes sense. Fel
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: like you're exerting yourself so hard. I don't know if
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: I've ever thought about it enough to feel like, oh,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: this is me trying to inflict pain, or it's just
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: like I.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Well, and maybe we're oversimplifying it by making it just
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: as simple as you're inflicting pain. There's something about making
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: tangible something that is emotional, and I think a lot
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: of us do that, and that's a very real thing
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: where sometimes like I want to go work out and
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: I want to feel the resistance of this weight and
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: I want to feel the burn in my muscles, like
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: a challenge to yourself. I want to make it real
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: because I'm dealing with something I don't know how to
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: language or how to put a finger on. I need
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: to experience this differently and metabolize the emotion so absolutely,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: of course, like running would do that, working out would
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: do that. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: at all. I just wanted to shine a light on
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: it because you know, it tells us a little bit
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: more about the same profile aple.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: Of different ways of quote self harm, like for sure.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Well, and it certainly seems to maybe cascade into this
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: writer's talk about like, Hey, I'm dealing with a lot
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: of like struggle with being seen and sort of putting
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: myself out there, and like, you know, I have this
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: incredible avoidance that's beyond mirror, you know, like social phobia.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: There is this really complex energy, you know, surrounding this
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: and it's interesting because I mean that kind of does
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: hold hands with yeah, and like I used to like
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: work out to the point of hurting myself to sort
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: of feel like I deserved that, and so it's like
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: a self flagellation sort of energy, and it's just it's
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: an interesting right, Like I shuffle those cards together in
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: the same deck and I start to go, oh, okay,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: like that that's fascinating, right, And if I was that
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: person's therapist, we'd be doing a lot of talk about
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: like how what kind of meaning are you ascribing to
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: like your everyday interactions and like how you assume other
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: people are thinking about you, and how many units of
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: energy you think other people give toward thinking about you,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: and like just right sizing a lot of that because
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: especially at a young age, I think we can definitely
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: have this sense that like we feature in other people's
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: experiences so big, and we become so like, oh my gosh,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: like I've done wrong or I've failed, or I'm unimpressive
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: or I'm underwhelming, and it's like, I don't know, it's
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: hard to describe what that is, but it's this thing
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: of like making ourselves wrong sized in the plot and
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: and like forgetting that, Oh no, you are one of
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: ten interviews today. You're interesting, and they're gonna hire somebody
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: that can scoop the ice cream. That's kind of it,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: Like you don't have to overthink this.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would be curious. You know. They mentioned like
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: I can't shake this feeling off that I need to
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: be working. That was kind of an interesting line to me,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: and my question back would be like, well, where do
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: you think that comes from? Yeah, you know, you could
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: easily say, oh, society or this or that, and but
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: I think for the person, I'm always surprised whenever I
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: think I know what answer a client will say and
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: then they give you kind of like something yeah, surprised.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: But those are my favorite moments. Oh yeah, because I'm like, oh, good,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: glad I asked. Yeah, but yeah, I wonder what you
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: would say, is like why do you feel you need
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: to be working and well?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: And that greater narrative of inadequacy that the writer talks
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: about the end of the letter, like saying, hey, I
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: struggle with this, yeah, this sense that like I'm not
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: enough and therefore that is part of it too, which
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: I you know, I appreciate the writer's perspective here because
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: it's something These dots I don't connect very often, but
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: they should be connected because they're very relatable. Like a
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: human who is struggling with the sense of inadequacy and
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: like hypersensitivity of self and like fear, and then asking
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: them to go out and do job interviews, which you're
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: already on the top ten list of things people just
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: naturally are pretty aversive to. They're not looking forward to.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: It's considered a very anxious moment. Your worth is being
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: sized up on a monetary level, and like you're going
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: to be ascribed identity as you look for a job
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: and all this pieces and like here's this human who's
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: already struggling with the sense of like self doubt and inadequacy,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: and then that also restlessness feeling of like but I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: don't feel good being lazy and doing nothing, So I
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: can't just retire in my twenties and a piece with that,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like I should be doing something, but
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: then I'm crushed every time I try. And so now
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: here I am in this weird catch twenty two that
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: I need to find something, and it's tough because, like
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people these days, they
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: seem to have ironically, because I think AI is going
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: to kill its all.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: Whitney, Well, it's something going to take over all the jobs,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: all the jobs.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: It's all coming back to, Yes, we need tis. Hopefully
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: we get those checked out, get those cranberry juices flowing,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: cranberry rick. That's right, somebody needs them cranberries. But like
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: I think about, like how ironic it is that young
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: people today often their first job is a gig job,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: like they're delivering for Uber Eats, you know, or they're
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: working for Instacart, And like that's interesting, right, because I
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: think a lot of our first jobs, millennials, we didn't
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: often have the option of picking something that was non interactive.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: A lot of times your first job really was the
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: frontline person, Like you're the clerk, you know, or you're
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: the the valet, or you're the concierge person, like you're
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: just the front desk. You're the job that people don't want,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: which is usually like the interactive jobs. Yeah, a lot
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: of people jobs. Or you're working at a fucking kiosk
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: at the mall, like selling cleaner for sneakers or whatever
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: it is, like those are the jobs, you know, and
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: like it's interesting, right retail fast food, Like yeah, you're
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: a waiter, and like you just think, like, wow, that's
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: so interesting that like a lot of people now can
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: kind of find these roles that they don't necessarily have.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: To stay isolated.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's pros and cons. I'm sure like
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: in some ways I think, oh good, I'm glad there's
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: a lane to accommodate people that that would have not
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: been very good. But then another part of me thinks,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: and yet humans seem to need to be challenged.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: It's reminded me of this story I just read. I
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: started reading a book called When Panic Attacks. Oh. The
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: first like one of the first stories the writer shares
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: is how they were very averse to like blood. Oh okay,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: but because they're like a doctorate or whatever doctor, they
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: went through a very.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: A doctorate is a girl doctor.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I don't know if they went into psychiatry
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: or what, but they've been through some med school basically.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: So part of that was a small bit where they
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: had to go and you know, do medical stuff. And
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: so they were in like a hospital doing their residency
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: or whatever it's called. In probably talking out my ass,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: but they were there and someone came in and was
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: just like blood everywhere all this like that's why they
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: were not choosing to be a doctor. But they had
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: to spend like this semester, you know, in this environment.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: And they said that going through that in the moment,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: it's almost like that exposure therapy in some ways, like
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: extreme exposure therapy. They got through it and they were like, oh, okay,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: like now I can I not that they want to
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: pursue a medical field thing, but they were like, oh,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: blood doesn't bother me as much because I was like thrown,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: you know, thrown in the deep end of the pool
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: like pretty quickly, or for them, the deep end, And
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: that kind of sat with me because I'm like, wow,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: it made me challenge things like I've never settled well
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: with like the side of blood or whatever. But the
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: reality is us as humans, we adapt, and if I
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: had to see blood every day, I probably like just
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: get used to. I wouldn't love it, I'm sure, but
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be like, oh I'm queasy and like, uh, like.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: I'm fine with blood. I'm fine with most things. The
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: smell of vomit gets made.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh yeah, okay, oh yeah.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: Around people bleeding profusely. Yeah, around people caused a lot
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: of it. Yeah, yeah, you were the culprit. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: the cause of and solution to Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: The blood doesn't bother me. I'll get somebody else's blood
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: all over me. Yeah, like that's part of it.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but like I don't like all the is there
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: like or whatever, But yeah, yeah, to me, it's just
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: the idea that you're there's blood outside your body or
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know what where the blood.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you ever seen those videos where somebody takes
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: a firm tooth comb and like just runs their thumb
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: across it with a cat. Have you ever seen this?
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: It makes cats like start an involuntary vomited reaction just
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: from hearing that sound. And that's how I am when
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: I hear somebody like starting to make the throw up
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: sounds like, yeah, this is it hurts. Yeah, thank you, Jacob.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: This is an audio show, and so that is not inappropriate.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: Are you are contributing the You're welcome, solid solid thinking. Yeah,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, she's actually got the night off so
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: allowed her not to be here today.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: She's yeah, she's here, Yeah, yeah, she's exactly.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: It's also what it looks like when she's working. She
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: does tell health from the closet. But writer, you know,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I appreciate this question where you're asking about, like, hey,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: insights advice on how to move forward, how to get
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: away from this avoidance, because yeah, I don't have any
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: friends in real life. You know, I really only go
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: to the gym. I am avoidant. I'm avoidant of going
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: to work, I'm avoiding to go in interviews. I'm avoidant
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: of spending time with other people. I need to pressure
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: myself to get out there. And you know, I'll tell
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: you that we treat this very similarly to how we
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: treat like a gooraphobia, you know, like which is a
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: really strong, you know, more accentuated version of what you're
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: you're experiencing where people are literally locked in their homes
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: and they cannot leave, they can't check their mail.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: The fear of being gored by a rhinoceros.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Honestly, the people that aren't afraid are the
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: ones I worry. Yeah exactly. I mean, if you see
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: a rhino fucking run, you know because they are dangerous
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: that they'll get you. But you know, writer in these scenarios,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: it really is. I think in my experience and when
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: i'd be curious what you think about this, I usually
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: find that it's going to be exposure therapy. It is
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: going to be the slow and methodical, challenge based therapy.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Or we're going to start by saying, hey, I want
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: you to get up on meetup dot com. I want
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: you to come back to me with five groups that
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: you found interesting. Maybe a D and D group, maybe
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: a board game group, maybe a walking group, a hiking group,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: a running group, of climbing group, a political group, a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: matinee group, whatever, And come back to me with groups
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: that you found that you you would just objectively think
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: that sounded interesting to me. I would be interested in
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: that because the more people that you find that are
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: like you, the more you're gonna just get wins. Right,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: Like you think, oh, I'm off putting or I'm offbeat,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: or people don't like me, and then we just tally
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: up what your interests are. We figure out you're into
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: like Lord of the Rings or some shit, and then
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: we get you to like D and D group and
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: then like you find your people and like you get
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: there and you're like, oh, well this is great. Like
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: I had a really nice experience and like I wasn't
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: off putting and it was nice, and it starts there.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: So in my opinion, we're going to start with something
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: like very small exposure therapy with people that I've had,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: especially young men and women. And again, writer, I'm guessing
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: at your age, you never told us. But like when
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: I've had people that are scared of jobs because they
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: feel like inadequate or like out of their depth, or
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: they're scared to be embarrassed because they're getting paid for it,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: I usually start with volunteer work. And so the first
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: thing I like to get them to do is same
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. We set up a challenge where I
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: have them look up like five to ten opportunities in
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: their community that could be serving in different capacities at
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: an animal shelter or volunteering to move things for a
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: house company's just moving and like that's a great way
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: to get paid too and not have a lot to
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: do besides moving boxes with some earbuds in. But like,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: I had a young guy years ago that was struggling
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: with this and like had tried out a job in college.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: I hadn't gone well. He had quit pretty quickly, and
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: he was like, man, you know, I just I really
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: gun shy now, like I'm really scared and screwed up again.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: And so you know, we said, great, let's get you
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: connected with this volunteer association that was attached to a church.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: And basically it was like widows, like you know, people
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: that were older that were moving houses, they could call
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: the church and like young college guys would show up
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: with trucks and like move their stuff. Yeah, and just
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: for free, just the thing the church would do. And
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: these young guys would get some exercise, they did good
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: in the world, and they were happy about it was
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: all for free, and sometimes they get a tip or
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: something like that, but that was about it. And like
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: we got him doing that, and he just had a
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: couple of successful little missions there and he started getting
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: his like you know, confidence back up of like, hey,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: that was nice, and I've kind of seen the same
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: guys that several different of these service opportunities, and like
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: the pastor was really proud of us, and like the
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: old lady that we helped was really nice and I
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: was I feel good and it was like great, Like
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: you're building life skills. It goes on your resume if
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: you want it to. But also you're getting some wins.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: So like I look for those things writer like volunteer opportunities.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: That's a great way to do it. Starting with like
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: low stakes mutual meetup groups that are around to shared
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: activity instead of something very direct. Those like small sort
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: of indirect options sometimes build up confidence and expose you
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: enough that you could start processing what that experience was like,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: and maybe that starts building up to things that are
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: more formal, like an interview or you know, job work.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I like that. The volunteering I really like too,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: because it feels a little bit more on your terms, right,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: you know, you're choose that versus going into an interview
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: where yeah, you're trying to sell yourself and they might
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: have like the power hand, right yeah, or it feels
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: like that and.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: You're not being evaluated to like, if I'm a shitty volunteer,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: you still got a dude who showed up and helped you. Yeah, Like,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: there's no reason to assign.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: Me that positive response, like you said, yeah, I can.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: Only do nice things for you. And if I was unhelpful,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: I showed up and nobody else. So I moved to
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: the box half as far as you wanted it to go.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: That was one hundred percent further than it.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: Was waiting till me.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, I gave you something.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah, writer, I'm a big fan of just anything
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: that kind of like exposes you, in small bites to
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: a little bit more of that tolerance pressure of kind
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: of getting out of the house, giving yourself opportunities to
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: size up with other humans, and then giving you opportunities
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: also to contemplate, hopefully with a therapist or in a
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: journal working on your own. What are my takeaways from that?
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: What kind of ways did I sense this other human
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: was giving me value or sizing me up? And is
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: that accurate? Like, you know, I feel like that's a
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: big part of it too, Like I know, when I
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: was a young man, I was constantly going through like
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: these weird transitions of having a bad interaction with somebody
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: and then fundamentally questioning like, oh my god, like I
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: must be a piece of shit like that guy. I
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: remember once I literally volunteered to move things for a
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: church and like one of the dudes, like an older guy,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: and he seemed really unimpressed with me, and like I
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: was trying to like show him like, hey, I'm with
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: you every step of the way, I'm caring what you carry,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: and he had like made some kind of like offhanded
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: joke about like, oh, this boy can't keep up with us,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: and I remember being like, but I tried really hard
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: today to like show you that wasn't the case. And
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: I thought it was maybe like an insecurity thing out
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: of him, that he was just picking on me to
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: like resonate with the other dudes there because I was
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: the odd man out. But I remember coming home and
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: just being like haunted, yeah, and just being like, wow,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: I am a piece of shit, and like I just
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: I do not have what it takes, and like other
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: guys can see it. Oh my god, like even when
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: I try my best, like it wasn't enough. And like, writer,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: if you go through that weird neurotic shit like I do,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: which you resonated in a letter with your pps that
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: perhaps you do, boy, do you have some personal work
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: to do, because that is not about that asshole. It's
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: about you and the way that you give other people
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: meaning in your head. And you've got to go through
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: that personal disassembling work, which only happens when you put
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: yourself out there you start having some exposures. Yes, yes, yes, yes, anyway, writer,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: we're gonna wrap it up there. Thank you for listening
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: to the show. Thank you for your ongoing support, thank
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: you for being a cumpwallet battleship destroyer two part due
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: the electric Boogloo. We're in take quick break in when
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: we come back, we are wrapping up the show. You're
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: listening to pod Therapy.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Malia Richard, Bacy,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: Sonny boy At Thunder, Cooper Palkino, Snipper, k Motherficker, Sandra mcaffle, Elena,
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  Speaker 4: and Gabrielam. If you want to be a sponsor on
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  Speaker 4: this show, head on over to therap, head on over
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• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: Who knows all right therapy.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: Go there.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: Now, last question for each of you, this is worth
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: one million points, right, this is it? Okay, as it
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: should be. This is the deal. We're starting with Whitney. Whitney.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: What is the name of Tony's uncle who was often
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: called you in here?
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, options, I'm gonna give.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: You a hint. His last name is soprano.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: Thank you?
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: Now, what are the options?
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: The options are Anthony DeMeo Corrado soprano, Phil Leatardo Carmine soprano.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: Anthony DeMeo Corrado soprano, Phil Leotardo Carmine soprano.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: Car is someone in there, isn't it?
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: It's very Italian. They're all very except for Phil. Phil
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: not very Italian in here. Anthony, Philippe, Carmine.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with that one.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: You're going Carmine soprano with the steel Jacob for a
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: million points. It's the second one, Corrado.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: That one wrong.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: It's Phil. It is definitely a soprano. In fact, the
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: last one was on my list as Carmine Lupertazzi. But
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: I knew if I gave you that last name, it
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: wouldn't even be a guess. You would just pick the
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: only one that ended the soprano. I didn't like how
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: it was phrased, so I denied you that opportunity for
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: the win of Jacob. Where does winning for another win? Yes,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: she could get the rebound and tie you for infinity.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: Where does Furio, a person Whitney's never heard of by
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: episode two, eventually move after fleeing the US due to
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: his feelings for Carmela.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: Oh I don't. I don't remember.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: Want options?
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: Sure? Yes, Naples, Italy, Rome back to Italy.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: That was an option? Back to Italy. Oh I believe
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: he does go back to Italy and Palermo.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going back to It was a specific.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: All Italians are just from Italy, end.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: Of unless you're Sicilian. I learned this recently. Sicilians like
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: to be Sicilian.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, that's also where that pizza place is from.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: Little Caesars.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: It's sorry to argue with that proud tradition because he's
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: an idiot, really hard dark.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: When's the last time you had Little Caesars?
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: Oh I, I've vomited maniacally.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: No, stop it, stop it.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: That ruins it for me.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to know.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: you that you can sign up Patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:30:43
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• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: Not the outro.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: I'm just reading over the outro music.
• 1:30:48
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• 1:30:48
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• 1:30:51
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• 1:32:02
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• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: for supporting mental health. Well that's all the time we
• 1:32:07
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• 1:32:09
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• 1:32:11
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• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: Nick Tansman, I'm with you, Joe, I'm also Jim.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks, and we'll see your favorite point next week. Today
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: we learned that that is a longer song than people realized.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: Oh those so like forty seconds left.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: It goes, yeah, it place. That doesn't change that song, Fox, Yeah,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: keep it forever.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: That's sound Fox.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: Goodbye, everybody, Bye.