Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / The Christian Reeve Podcast #136 | Pamela Wong Miller

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The Christian Reeve Podcast #136 | Pamela Wong Miller · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian we
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  podcast. Today's guest is a curator poet
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  writer and much more all the way from California.
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  Please welcome to the show. Pamela Miller how you did.
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  Hi Chris. How are you?
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  I'm good. Thank you.
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  I'm good as I said before off-camera.
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  Thank you very much for agreeing to do this for those who don't
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  know in my community. Pam has been supporting me for a
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  while. Now and is a sort of a firm
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  member of my community. And I think I've interviewed a
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  few people from from my community here and there, I
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  don't really have any kind of like, Specific things, I guess I
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  look for in guests, particularly I think it's just like I reach
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  out to people and you know, if I think they've got like maybe
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  interesting stories to share or if they think they deserve like
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  recognition, not by any means saying this podcast does
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  anything for them but if nothing else, I hope I can give a good
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  interview, you know, and along those lines.
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  I, you know, obviously I've always seen the comments.
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  That you put in my live streams and stuff and I can tell you're
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  one of those people that's had like a very interesting life.
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  I can I just get that Vibe and that was kind of One of my key
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  reasons why I wanted to reach out to you and do this and also
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  just, you know, I do personally think everyone has something to
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  share. I truly believe this.
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  I think the art is always in making people feel comfortable
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  and then getting those stories, you know, and seeing where those
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  things can go and getting straight into it, you know, with
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  you what can you tell us about this work as a curator because
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  you're you do you do a, you work as a curator at hitter.
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  Occurred. So what can you tell us about
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  that? What exactly is a curator hit
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  record is a platform. That's very much like all the
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  other social media sites except it's run by Joseph Gordon-Levitt
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  the actor and he put together this community about 12 years
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  ago, 15 years ago, look this brother who passed early in life
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  mom, and they had this little basically garage set up where
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  they would, you know, produce little skits and things and or
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  just show his, his brother was a fire dancer and they would tape
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  him and they would play drums and and started off just small
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  and then he eventually started inviting people to if they were
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  writers or artists. Musicians singers to join the
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  community and the differences is not competitive, is supposed to
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  be collaborative and you try to remix each other's work.
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  So it's It's sort of different in the sense of where Tick Tock
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  is. Look at me, look at me, he's
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  more into, let's work on a project together, you know, and
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  it's all about collaboration there.
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  So so does Joseph work on stuff with people himself on the
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  actual site, or is he just kind of managing it and then everyone
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  else does that or still there? My experience with him was he we
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  wrote a short little story I wrote oh wow.
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  And so, he remixed it and And then whenever I would write
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  whatever subject, you know that they they would have prompts.
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  And so I would write something he would ask me a question and
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  then we would have a dialogue, you know, in texting and in
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  these messages back and forth. So I guess I became curator
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  because I was featured a lot and now I have basically it's an
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  honorary title. And you, you know, I have the
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  power to feature people, okay? And say, hey, look guys, you
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  know, I think this is an exceptional, you know, dialogue
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  or poem or short story, you know.
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  And so That's my, my power there.
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  And other than that, it's Ivan work.
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  I'm not working. Well, I've been enjoying, I've
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  been there for like nine years. I just had an anniversary couple
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  of days ago. He's been retired for nine years
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  though, right? Well, you've been there for
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  donors. I've been with this how cool
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  Chris the time and again they go.
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  All right, it was you know, I actually came upon it because I
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  got rejected by some of the other social groups I just hear
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  was you know, community that was welcoming and encouraging, you
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  know, support of your work and And really all started slowly
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  going to Instagram, though. I don't know why but you know it
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  the format HIPAA court changed a lot, and it's kind of very well.
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  It's very different from any of the other format.
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  So that your, your kind of bum parted with here, right in
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  foreign, Let her know for Words, tell me, you know, a sad story
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  and that would be the prompt of the day.
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  Why were you rejected from the other sites?
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  I'm curious about that. Well.
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  I guess, you know, it just I wanted to place where you could
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  actually have a conversation and you can chat with people and You
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  can't really, you know, with Instagram, you're kind of
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  performing for people. Mmm.
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  Showing something off, you know? And I, all I wanted was sort of
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  this interaction wanted to be able to have an interactive sort
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  of quality to, I guess. That's why Tick-Tock was sort of
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  interesting to me that people could talk to each other, talk
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  to the host and it was all a lie, you know?
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  So it's Tesla is it you want rejected you you just seeking
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  something a bit more meaningful and more interaction and then
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  you just didn't find that on those other websites.
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  And then that's LED you to take dark and to hit record.
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  So yeah. Okay.
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  As you guys get to say, because I was sitting there thinking
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  like, that's crazy. You're a very talented writer
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  and poet, and you're a really nice person.
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  Like, I can't imagine rejected yours.
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  So me though. But anyway, let's talk a little
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  bit more about this. This hit record can be like, how
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  big is it? I mean, I'll be honest I'd never
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  heard of it before and with such a high profile name, like Joseph
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  Gordon-Levitt attached to it, you'd think it would have more
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  sort of fanfare like, is it an American only where social
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  media? So it's a national International
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  and They do pay people, when something gets produced and
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  picked up by a network. They had a hit record for
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  television, a couple of few years, 10 years ago or
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  something. And no, not that long ago,
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  shorten that and it ran on Netflix, For a couple, you know
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  for a while so you could watch it there and the people who
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  worked on the show or the published some books.
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  So people who got their Works published, they get paid for it.
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  So they don't get paid a lot but you know, because it's a
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  percentage and there's a lot of transparency and you know and
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  they and Joseph Gordon-Levitt himself says things like well,
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  we're not in it for the money. Yeah, that's what art should be
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  about, you know, it should be just pure than that, I guess so.
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  He also was very strange. She said the current dictator,
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  he's a malevolent dictator, he say Benevolent in every way
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  those two mixed up? Yeah, I get like seems to come
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  across. Well, I actually doesn't its
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  question. I was going to ask you is like
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  what to fold? Like a what is he like?
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  Because obviously you said that you've spoken to him a little
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  bit, I've gotten to know him a little bit and second like, what
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  is his current day? Involvement with this website.
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  I mean, as you said, you've been made like a curator.
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  So he's got like some investment in there.
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  So obviously he's pretty busy with acting and Music Company
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  impressions of? Yeah Gordon Joseph Clement
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  wouldn't I could get his name is.
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  Joseph Gordon-Levitt sorry. It is confusing.
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  So he's just go by Regular Joe on the site now.
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  It's just Jo Jo yeah, yeah. I think it's name on Reddit is
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  Joseph golden rabbit. Well from this I'm getting a
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  vibe that he's not very doesn't really have like an ego.
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  It's just very kind of like You know, he enjoys this this is
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  just its artistic interest. Is that kind of the deal with
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  him? I guess some people love and
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  some described him as this cheerful song and dance, man.
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  it's bubbly and and then some people really see him as a
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  serious actor and I think he's he's in this Showtime series
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  called super pumped and he plays the CEO of uber.
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  Mmm, is this back when they were a bit more?
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  Controversial years ago? Yeah, I recently watched like a
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  mini doc about that and it's there's definitely a story there
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  so I can see why they're doing that anyway, bring it back to
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  you. So experience on this particular
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  website. Like you obviously you expressed
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  that the format is to remix other people's work, sort of
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  things. So what other people's work of
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  you remixed? What interesting work of what,
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  interesting interpretations of your work has been Produced like
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  talk to us a little bit about that, okay?
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  I tend to be the one, let they remix that's wrong because I
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  guess I am still sort of in the same mode of The Tick Tock
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  mentality where I have a product or an idea or story and I just
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  want to get it out there, right? and so, most people want to be
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  actors and performers so they liked they like taking my
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  material and reading it and I've tried editing and remixing of
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  the people's work and it's tough because I don't have the
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  technical skills but it's very hard for me to rewrite somebody
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  else's writing. I feel like that's sacrilege so
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  much. I got it.
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  I got it. Yeah, I suppose you end up just
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  changing it from what it is in a way which is And I interested.
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  Yeah. Okay.
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  I mean I can try to. Collaborate with someone as were
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  right? If we were writing together, you
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  know, and bouncing ideas off of each other, but at hit record,
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  you would right? I did one line.
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  I did have one lying, it's not call me when it's just I am
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  thinking of donating my body to science.
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  Fiction was the line. And someone turned it into a
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  song where they deserve Sang's those words over and over.
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  So then they took that and turned it into a music video.
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  Cool. Oh it involved animators now.
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  So that's what I mean about it being a collaboration but being
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  a writer I can't draw. You know, I can't write music.
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  So people were adding news. In illustrations and you know,
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  to to make this video and it was, it was exciting.
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  You know to see and people have done that with my poetry they
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  written or saying songs based on my poems. so, It's an it's yeah,
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  it's different. It's, it's different than other
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  Social media sites. Yeah, it's very interactive.
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  Yeah it sounds like an interesting concept.
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  I'm surprised I haven't heard of it before but maybe you'll gain
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  Traction in years to come, who's he?
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  Yeah. Never.
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  It depends on the marketing to be fair.
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  I mean, if Joseph Gordon-Levitt is pursuing it more as a passion
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  project as opposed to, you know, a thing to make money, then it
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  will probably just kind of sit there.
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  In its current state not necessarily.
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  That's not necessarily a bad thing.
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  You know, I mean, as you sort of remarks and that he'd said, you
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  know, it's if it's just about the art, then expose its already
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  fulfilling its purpose. Anyway, let's bring it back to
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  you. I'd love to know how you
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  actually got into writing. Poetry, how long have you been
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  writing? Poetry for?
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  This is funny. When I was in.
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  College. I was a Trauma major.
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  And I was determined to be a like a playwright that I took
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  screenwriting class and I was 18.
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  And I knew nothing about screenwriting and like and it
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  was a night course. And I saw the other students
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  coming in, they're all middle-aged and they know they
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  seemed like they knew what they were doing the class and I was
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  clueless and I Basically, before I failed the class, I dropped it
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  and I switched over to take a poetry class with my girlfriend
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  and then I just got excelled in that class and oh, and I became
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  like the star student in my poetry class.
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  So I kept taking the course, you know, more in depth and so, that
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  was the That was a long, long time ago, since College?
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  Yeah. Awesome.
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  Awesome. And, where would you say you
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  gain inspiration for your poetry.
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  So, I think this is always kind of a key thing with musicians
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  and writers, Etc. It's always different.
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  Where do you get inspiration? Write what, you know.
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  So, basically, I'm my stuff is very personal autobiographical,
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  you know, all right. Yeah.
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  So yeah, I kind of, um, Weiss, I saw the strange, so I know I'm
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  digressing but I had an idea that I could go into talk and
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  read my journals since, you know, or Oh, since I was nine or
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  something, you know. Wow okay consistently the whole
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  time. Yeah with gaps.
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  I would have some gaps and I lost some of them.
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  Yeah. I just so that there's a lot of
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  material there and I saw someone on kik talk reading from his
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  journal is diary and showing it, you know?
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  And the time we wrote it and I thought oh someone it is thought
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  that, you know, I don't and that's sort of like how I feel
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  about my writing is I sorta think of it as writing in a
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  journal but then, but then make it not me, you know, then try to
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  be like, try to see if I can be another character other than
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  myself, and then put my put that character in whatever situation,
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  you know, I'm a geek maybe, you know, in Falcon or something.
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  So do you actually read from the journal on?
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  Took another places on those? I haven't done that.
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  No, okay, I want to say something to you.
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  That I read a while ago, which I think you need to hear just on
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  this and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, so bear with me on
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  this, but Everything. That's Already thought of has
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  already most likely been done at some point and, I know, you know
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  that, right? But it's the first time that
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  you've done it. Right.
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  And I think that, what I would say about your ethos right now
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  is that if you're approaching this with the whole character
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  thing like that's just what you want to do.
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  That's how you feel comfortable then fair play like this, you
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  know, do it how you feel comfortable with it but what I
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  will say is that I think never be afraid to be who you are, you
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  know, like I think it's important that If it's like,
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  you're a bit trepidatious about like that, you're not sure.
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  Like, or should I shouldn't? I always be yourself.
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  I believe and I'm not, you know, I'm not saying that you need
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  this advice or anything, but I just think it's important to
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  know that like, That's an option, you know?
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  Because I remember when I first started doing all of this stuff,
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  I had something similar to like an identity crisis.
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  I don't know. I was unsure of myself as all of
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  us are when we start something new and I fell into a rhythm,
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  but I remember making a decision very early on and I don't know
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  if it was the blogging sort of vlogging or podcasting or
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  whatever, but I remember thinking I see that other people
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  do account or online. That's their thing.
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  I could do that but I don't want to. for a few reasons and I
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  don't have it anything against people that do that, that's
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  their decision, but I looked at it and I thought that's a very
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  tiresome to pay a character consistently And if I would
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  become successful, the say I became famous, I think it would
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  be strange to almost like meet people and you're not that
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  person and I always wondered like what it's like for them.
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  Maybe it's a disappointment for their fans, you meet the person
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  and they're not the same or I don't know.
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  I mean it depends and we're all humans.
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  Anyway whether was famous or not, doesn't really matter but
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  if you're playing a character, the Is you play that character
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  all the time? And I could see how that would
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  be very frustrating but or tiresome or something.
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  And for me that was just a decision that I made and I stuck
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  with it and over time it got easier and, you know, it's a
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  work in progress all the time, but I think we're with your
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  work, everything that I've heard so far, like I listen to it, and
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  it's very It's very heartfelt, it's very easy.
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  I think to just write about things in general, anyone can
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  write a poem song, you know, but to write from From like a deeper
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  level from from something that is an again.
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  I'm terrible articulating this but To write something that's
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  real, that's relatable that people can connect with, that is
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  purely. Just you communicating truth
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  from your life. I think is particularly special.
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  And I always get that whenever I finish reading one of your
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  poems, so I think You should definitely consider, maybe read
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  in that journal. And and then in your way, I
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  think that would be really cool to listen to.
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  I think I think and I think another thing as well is that
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  there's a lot of opportunities with that as well because you
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  mentioned that you've been doing that since the age of 9 and I
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  think it's interesting. So then reflect on.
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  Who you ever says, who you are and what you've learned over
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  that time, you know? So you could say, like, okay,
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  nine-year-old me thought this and believe this about life and
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  this is what I've learned since then.
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  And you know, here's the journey and you know, Whatever the
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  lessons are to be learned. That's what they are, you know?
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  But yeah. Please do consider it.
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  I think it would be very, I think a lot of people would
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  benefit from from hearing your words.
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  That's my thoughts on that. but, Moving it forward with regards
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  to your poems. What advice could you give to
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  aspiring writers and Poets? Like, one people that may be
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  nervous about getting into it or people that have never done it
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  before or like, what advice over the years of refining and
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  creating your work? Could you give to aspiring
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  writers and Poets? Read a lot of other.
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  Poets. Okay.
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  Who is it? Who is some of yours your
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  favorites? My favorites Classics.
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  I'm Robert Frost t.s. Eliot. the Barrington, you know,
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  Barrett's was it Barrett Browning there's so many poets,
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  this thing you have to Kind of find your own voice, you know.
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  And that's the thing about being a writer is standing out because
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  of the way you say it. Is there anything going on?
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  Please? No.
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  Well, I just remembered there. What's up?
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  A poem by Mark Strand, and he was sort of a Zen Buddhist and
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  he wrote something about when I move the air moves around me and
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  fills in the void, you know, that was once there aren't.
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  So the last line is I moved here, things whole and it just
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  sort of certain poem stick with you.
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  I paraphrased really badly but certain ones stick with you
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  because you think oh, I've never thought of that before, you
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  know? And remember, I remember this
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  thing, like you said earlier, well no one has an original
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  thought really, you know, but I'm ever going to be see him
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  with the class and you know in this Like Elementary School and
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  someone had done a black Square in the black square and some
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  kids said, hey I could done that and will you didn't though and
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  that's the difference. So, I guess you're finding
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  finding your own voice finding your own.
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  Challenge. Actually, you know.
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  It's hard. I was thinking about this
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  earlier, I was so I went for a walk and I was just kind of, you
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  know, like how it is. You go for a walk and thoughts
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  that come into your head. And I was thinking about
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  everything else that I do in my life seems pretty
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  straightforward. For instance, I do a podcast.
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  Yes. There's millions of podcasts,
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  many people that probably do almost exactly the same thing
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  that I do, but it's me doing it. When I write a song.
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  Yeah, a million songs are probably remember it being
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  written that sound. Exactly like that similar,
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  similar words, similar theme everything, but somehow writing
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  I feel is harder than everything because it's like you are simply
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  communicating the same lessons again and again and again, and
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  maybe the art is in the way it's worded because I have to say
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  like when you were recounting that poem and you know, you're
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  talking about how it makes you feel and what it makes you think
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  it's like That's how I feel. Sometimes when I hit here,
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  certain poems or read certain things, you know, it's tough,
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  you know, already. But sometimes it's the way that
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  it's written or the way it's spoken.
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  Just hits you in a particular way and I don't know, maybe it
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  moves you maybe it reminds you of something, maybe it resonates
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  with you on a particular level. Maybe that's the art and
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  writing, I don't know. But I do think it's probably one
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  of the hardest mediums like from a creative standpoint, it's hard
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  but yeah I mean he's gone. It's hard to communicate to
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  communicate just in general, you know, expressing yourself and If
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  you're opinionated, you know, being able to back it up with
• 30:23
  facts and it is it's difficult to talk to other people, you
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  know? And and hope that they can
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  understand what you're trying to do.
• 30:36
  You know to convey how have you learned to become a good
• 30:40
  communicator? Well, it's funny that you're
• 30:47
  interviewing me because I would normally be in your position
• 30:51
  because I was Broadcast journalism and I ended up
• 30:58
  working for a TV station at the time.
• 31:02
  So, I could I was able to produce and direct a little
• 31:12
  documentary when I was 25, wow, I just had a small camera crew,
• 31:22
  you know, the cameraman and the sound person.
• 31:26
  And I went and It's like four hours of filming or seven and a
• 31:35
  half minutes of air time. It's the harsh reality.
• 31:41
  Yeah this work is going to be 15 minutes and then they said no
• 31:48
  you have to edit it in half and I stayed up like 24 hours with
• 31:54
  the editor and it was, it was exhilarating, you know, it was
• 31:59
  an exhausting and But fascinating and I felt really
• 32:07
  proud that. That moment, you know, I was
• 32:10
  doing the voiceover for it and my mother was at the time.
• 32:16
  She said, who's the narrator? I said, I am.
• 32:20
  And she goes, no, that's not your voice.
• 32:24
  So I was trying to be very professional.
• 32:26
  Yeah. You know and time I had a very
• 32:31
  squeaky Nervous voice when I was like younger.
• 32:36
  And you know, when I get nervous who'd be like, oh hi Chris.
• 32:41
  How are you? You know that little girl voice
• 32:44
  and so I was trying to get rid of that and sound like a
• 32:47
  reporter, it's funny as well that you mention that because
• 32:51
  like I've started I've noticed that I've started doing the same
• 32:55
  thing with I don't know voiceovers podcasting acting
• 32:59
  whatever sometimes it's gone. Just other times it's not and
• 33:04
  I'm like hmm that's interesting but I think it's like you kind
• 33:08
  of realize that in order as you said to better communicate the
• 33:12
  message or construct something that kind of I guess feels more
• 33:18
  professional. It's that you fall into that but
• 33:20
  I feel like a part of that is a product of the society around
• 33:24
  us, you know, watching TV, when you're growing up, seeing the
• 33:27
  news whatever, they all talk in the same tone, you know, you
• 33:31
  never hear someone on the news. Go right.
• 33:33
  How's it going snooze? Yeah, you know.
• 33:37
  And it's like I don't know. I mean, it wouldn't it be pretty
• 33:42
  head? I'd watch the news if it was
• 33:43
  like that, that'd be hilarious. But I guess I guess in a way you
• 33:47
  wouldn't take it seriously. And I guess that's the whole
• 33:49
  point. Isn't it to be taken?
• 33:50
  Seriously. Sometimes well how is it?
• 33:54
  You know, it's a tricky one actually because I was going, I
• 33:59
  was going to say, oh, it could be taken.
• 34:00
  Seriously, you have to do that, but I don't think that's true.
• 34:02
  Necessarily, for example, there's, there's a celebrity
• 34:07
  musician here in the UK called big nasty and he's put he speaks
• 34:11
  in a very London, London slang? You know, that kind of way and
• 34:18
  he has like a chat show that he does.
• 34:20
  It's really really good and he's true to himself.
• 34:23
  He doesn't put on a Persona. He doesn't you know try to speak
• 34:27
  what other Quinta? He just talks as himself and
• 34:30
  it's really good and all his guests him comfortable, you
• 34:33
  know, he's had all manner of guess.
• 34:34
  He had like Louis Theroux on there, for example, and he
• 34:38
  seemed to be really comfortable, you know, he wasn't you know,
• 34:41
  then again Luther was spoken to all sorts of people but you get
• 34:44
  my, you get my point. It's like I think that there
• 34:49
  doesn't always have to be rules. But sometimes in certain
• 34:51
  industries like news and stuff that they're just seems that's
• 34:54
  just seems to be the case for some reason.
• 34:58
  Anyway, I do like to Waffle on a do.
• 35:00
  Apologize, bring it back to you. I got to ask about your
• 35:03
  broadcasting career. What would you say?
• 35:07
  Were the key? Kind of takeaways or lessons
• 35:11
  that you took from broadcast journalism?
• 35:14
  oh, Funny thing is that I I used to think that I wanted to be
• 35:24
  like an anchorperson, right. And so I wanted that recognition
• 35:31
  like be the Connie Chung kuo. She was a reporter at the time,
• 35:35
  you know? And she was the only Asian sort
• 35:37
  of representation of you know that I could relate to.
• 35:43
  So when I did my God, Venturi. I actually cut out myself,
• 35:50
  though, the film footage because they had listening shots, right?
• 35:55
  And you asking the question, so that you would know who the
• 35:58
  reporter was. Well, I was so insecure that I
• 36:03
  kept saying, oh, I'm too ugly. My face is fat.
• 36:06
  I don't want to be Adam, and I want this to be a serious
• 36:09
  documentary, and, and then everyone told me later, you're
• 36:13
  fooled. You're supposed to put yourself
• 36:15
  in there, you know? You're promoting yourself and I
• 36:19
  didn't see it that way. I saw this I'm making a film.
• 36:23
  I'm a filmmaker, you know, and so it changed.
• 36:30
  You know. I mean if I really wanted to be
• 36:33
  a broadcast, Sure a broadcaster I would have had to like show my
• 36:40
  face and at that time I was just not secure enough to do that,
• 36:47
  you know? And I just thought, I'm just
• 36:51
  want to produce a film and be thought of as a director or
• 36:57
  something, you know. So this was a good short.
• 37:00
  Lived thing that you did, then I want a one-on-one time.
• 37:05
  It's and then yeah. And then afterwards, I started
• 37:08
  working on a lot of other shows. Once I left there, I went on to
• 37:16
  do pilots and and we did a show that actually aired for a couple
• 37:25
  of seasons and it was A TV show about.
• 37:32
  Teenage a little teenage rock and roll band.
• 37:37
  They're in high school and I was supposed to write, you know, be
• 37:46
  able to write scripts for them and stuff, but They sort of
• 37:54
  trade everyone because they were sort of made them so they got
• 37:58
  like grants and things from Norman Lear and Alex Haley, who
• 38:05
  did Roots. All right said, yes, you're
• 38:10
  going to employ minorities women, people of color, you
• 38:17
  know, younger people and give them a chance to be. you know,
• 38:22
  it took you could that fit active in the TV and where they
• 38:30
  ended up doing was like hiring professional, you know, tax TV,
• 38:38
  you know, people who are like 45 50 years old, we've been doing
• 38:44
  this, all their life, you know, writing TV scripts and I
• 38:48
  remember feeling very betrayed by them because Cuz they took me
• 38:53
  away from KCTV the station. I was working at to give me a
• 39:00
  chance to Bright and they never gave me that chance.
• 39:04
  You know, they they gave it to professional writers rather thin
• 39:10
  groom within the company because it my notes Here.
• 39:15
  I can see that you've taken on a lot of different roles.
• 39:18
  But what you're saying is you kind of You wanted to be that
• 39:21
  writer, you wanted to be that broadcaster and then you were
• 39:23
  kind of pushed more into associate producer, researcher
• 39:29
  kind of territory. Okay?
• 39:33
  So was he KCET is associated with PBS.
• 39:37
  What could you tell us about your experiences there and Were
• 39:42
  you ever able to sort of get that stuff that you wanted out
• 39:47
  there and in written form? Or did you sort of just stick to
• 39:50
  like producing and researching? Yeah, I think the only people
• 40:00
  that really got the chance to be really creative and do something
• 40:06
  on their own were Film department.
• 40:12
  The people that could actually go out and pitch an idea and
• 40:20
  then have its say, okay, you know have the executive
• 40:26
  producer, okay, it and then they could go off and make whatever
• 40:31
  film they want, you know, a human interest story or some
• 40:36
  newsworthy, something newsworthy and it's KCT at that time that I
• 40:44
  was there was sort of the golden age and That was a lot of they
• 40:51
  did Cosmos, they're all safe and that was a big deal at a time to
• 40:58
  have him do that. I got, I got a good experience
• 41:07
  working for them. I didn't.
• 41:08
  I never stayed with the company for very long.
• 41:11
  Most of the times because they changed Management's.
• 41:14
  And then I was always trying to work my way up and the thing was
• 41:20
  in Show Business, you don't standing position longer than
• 41:23
  six months, you know. Hello.
• 41:27
  And so I was always trying to advance become, you know, and
• 41:32
  and at one Point I was working for a company that was like, HBO
• 41:38
  and Showtime, and they were competing, you know, it was
• 41:43
  early Eggies, and I had to do publicity for them.
• 41:49
  So I would do interviews, and with the celebrities and review
• 41:56
  films, right? The blurbs for them, collect the
• 42:00
  material press kits from all All the studios.
• 42:04
  And it's, that was a fun times that I got to just drive to MGM
• 42:09
  and Paramount box and, you know, and pick up all their, you know,
• 42:19
  and then get invited to all the screenings of move these two.
• 42:23
  So they were there any celebrity interviews that particularly
• 42:27
  stand out for you ones that you're proud of or ones that
• 42:30
  were just weird for some reason, or It's all well, he's kind of
• 42:35
  old but like, I remember being excited that I was I was going
• 42:40
  to interview. Brian De Palma's wife, who is an
• 42:44
  actress. And so I remember calling and
• 42:50
  getting their machine in. This is Brian De Palma ceia.
• 42:53
  And in such as such, I can't remove the actress's name right
• 42:59
  now. She was she was a person.
• 43:02
  I was Us to interview though. I remember being so nervous.
• 43:05
  So I was I was like going to throw up, you know just because
• 43:11
  the idea I'm going to interview someone and I don't, you know, I
• 43:16
  don't have a vast knowledge of their they didn't have a big
• 43:22
  movie background because she was young, you know, and she was
• 43:26
  just starting off but Brian De Palma with the producer, I mean
• 43:30
  director, you know, eating At that time.
• 43:35
  And I did, I did a lot of Hollywood stuff.
• 43:43
  When I was a teenager, I worked for Willie, Morris, putting it
• 43:49
  on a fundraiser part of every year, and it was like 200 men in
• 43:56
  the Showbiz industry. That would come to listen to
• 44:02
  like, Carl Reiner when he was alive, you know?
• 44:05
  And Stand-up comedians. That were well really well
• 44:14
  known. But this was the long time ago.
• 44:16
  So a lot of these people passed, but I got to meet people like
• 44:20
  Rod Serling, who was in The Twilight Zone, right?
• 44:28
  Toilet. So it was here.
• 44:30
  I've never personally watched it, which people go crazy.
• 44:33
  I'm a big sci-fi fan, but yeah, I never watch that.
• 44:36
  But I, it's, it's A big thing here, too.
• 44:38
  Yeah, yeah. It was celebrities.
• 44:45
  Yeah. And then the verse only two,
• 44:50
  women who were coordinating the whole thing.
• 44:54
  So it was, it was sort of an odd time for me because I was like
• 44:57
  19 and and then they would, they would tell, you know, naughty
• 45:03
  jokes and then they would the whole room and turn around and
• 45:08
  look at us to see if we were reacting and all right, or if
• 45:13
  so, it was all right. But then like, Johnny Carson,
• 45:17
  King, Me and asked, did you learn any new words tonight and
• 45:26
  something weird like that, you know, you have any gun?
• 45:32
  No, it's so, I mean, I used to think Johnny Carson.
• 45:36
  I don't know if you see this like Nate late night, television
• 45:39
  American show, right? And he's been dead for years,
• 45:44
  but I used to have this fantasy that I would be on a talk show.
• 45:48
  Show and talking to Johnny Carson.
• 45:50
  And I was in, then when I finally did meet him, I was
• 45:53
  speechless. I was just babbling and started
• 45:58
  like, what I'm doing now. No, no, no, it's this ignorant
• 46:02
  because it's noisy. Stiff is difficult, I think to,
• 46:06
  to do these sorts of things? You know, I still struggled to
• 46:10
  this day, I think and I think I think it's all about feeling
• 46:16
  comfortable, isn't I imagine with your interviewing?
• 46:19
  It took you it would have taken some time you know before you
• 46:23
  kind of get into the swing of the things, you know, like was
• 46:26
  there like how many interviews did you do over that time?
• 46:32
  Not that many just a handful. Okay.
• 46:39
  Yeah, most of the time. I mean that was sort of like I
• 46:45
  was helping other people like doing researching I did mostly
• 46:51
  research and so this cane at the will of the documentary was sort
• 46:58
  of the Pinnacle of my, you know. Success there was being able to
• 47:03
  do that and it was just It wasn't like a that was my title
• 47:13
  basically you know, I was in programming and I would I could
• 47:18
  do a lot of things but unfortunately I didn't get that
• 47:23
  to you know, I was an associate producer for a while.
• 47:27
  So suicide from the documentary that you did were there any
• 47:35
  other kind of memorable? Moments experiences from your
• 47:39
  time. So, working in TV and
• 47:42
  production. There were all those times while
• 47:52
  I was working. Well, you know, I think it was
• 47:55
  friendships, I made. Okay.
• 47:58
  And my best friends were people that I worked with, I had a
• 48:04
  girlfriend. Who was that MGM?
• 48:07
  And she was in charge of the archives.
• 48:12
  Yeah, and she had a, an office. In Culver City.
• 48:22
  I didn't know she was. Very shy actually shoots.
• 48:30
  So she never really connected with my boss and my boss was was
• 48:36
  very timid. So she basically gave me her job
• 48:41
  and you know, I was surgery her assistant and then shape, she
• 48:46
  said I can't do this. I can't call and talk to people
• 48:50
  and, you know, and ask for material and information and
• 48:54
  when Canada and and and I need to get on screening in a go get
• 49:00
  people on the screening list. So I got her job basically and I
• 49:06
  got a secretary and an office and and then I made really good
• 49:13
  friends with my secretary. Yeah.
• 49:16
  And I had a good relationship with my bosses and then I had
• 49:22
  these friends that were publicists and you know BP of,
• 49:27
  you know, right the library So it was, it was that was the fun.
• 49:36
  Part was, I was young, I was making contacts and networking
• 49:45
  and really making friends. So that was, that's good.
• 49:49
  It's nice to hear in that time because obviously, we hear all
• 49:55
  sorts of stories about Hollywood and that kind of industry and
• 49:58
  stuff like, was there anything that you saw Maybe that was very
• 50:04
  strange or very, I don't know. Wrong inappropriate.
• 50:09
  I don't know like anything that kind of just struck out to you
• 50:12
  as not being quite right, or normal or something to that
• 50:16
  effect. Yes, there was a lot of sexual
• 50:23
  harassment that was so from who from like Executives or actors
• 50:29
  or all the above. Oh yeah, they are.
• 50:39
  I was I worked for someone who just outright expected me to be
• 50:45
  his mistress and yeah, he's in a good relationship way or just
• 50:50
  kind of like waiting on you hand and foot like a secretary old,
• 50:54
  but would you mean the secretary and it was like I was just
• 50:58
  started, you know Kate. Yeah.
• 51:03
  And it was in the engineering and operations Department.
• 51:09
  He was the vice president of that and he's 50 and I'm like,
• 51:13
  25 or something, right? Or 24.
• 51:18
  And he's trying to touch me all the time and he would get into
• 51:22
  these fits of rage and he would throw like pain.
• 51:35
  Oh no. Lost you.
• 51:43
  I can't hear you. Yeah, you can hear me.
• 51:47
  No, I didn't hear any of that unfortunately.
• 51:50
  Yeah, yeah. So this guy tried to.
• 51:54
  Can you hear me now? I can't?
• 51:55
  Yes, yes. So this boss made the motion to
• 52:00
  slap me and then I decided to transfer to another department
• 52:09
  reported him. Yeah, thank you Father.
• 52:13
  He didn't, he was vice president and best friends with president
• 52:17
  and all that. Yeah.
• 52:20
  But he said I'm going to blackball you and you'll never
• 52:23
  get another job in this industry again and you know, because he
• 52:27
  got known as well. Mice, the boss of I went to go
• 52:34
  work for. He said, let's go over to your
• 52:38
  boss and tell him the good news that you're going to be working
• 52:40
  for me. Got it got around the studio
• 52:47
  that he was like a woman beater. And he tried to threaten me, you
• 52:53
  know, for spreading that rumor. But she was, he was a very
• 53:01
  despicable man, really, did he ever get his comeuppance?
• 53:05
  Did you ever see that? Or did you just continue sort
• 53:09
  of, get involved in like beta Max or something?
• 53:15
  And please tell me he invested those money and then it just
• 53:22
  sank because that's brilliant. I get it.
• 53:32
  Yeah, we'll see these people aren't even alive anymore.
• 53:37
  It's just, it's just crazy to me.
• 53:39
  Because I mean, in many ways, it's completely obvious, it's
• 53:42
  different time. Times change, you know?
• 53:44
  But luckily we live in a time where these things, you know, if
• 53:50
  it happens nine times out of ten, it gets reported, it gets
• 53:53
  dealt with now, you know, now it's dealt with but back then
• 53:56
  it's like as you say, these people would would threaten you
• 53:59
  or try to When you have an industry with drawable,
• 54:02
  whatever. And it's it's this crazy to me
• 54:05
  just to listen to this nearest think that this just happened
• 54:08
  all the time. I mean, obviously it's not the
• 54:10
  first time I've ever heard this and I'm sure our listeners.
• 54:12
  You know, I've heard this all their lives but it's like still
• 54:17
  crazy. The listen to it.
• 54:18
  You know, it's just straight and, you know, even when I was
• 54:22
  growing up, I saw it a little bit but then, as I was growing
• 54:27
  up, you know, my first say job like it, Would these things
• 54:32
  wouldn't let you know, you might see it but then it would get
• 54:34
  dealt with eventually, you know, I mean, at least it like someone
• 54:37
  would be like, oh no that's not. Okay.
• 54:39
  And they would deal with it, but a lot of the time it comes down
• 54:42
  to creating like a Fear atmosphere, I suppose, you know,
• 54:47
  like Culture of Fear. It's they say and the people at
• 54:51
  the very top control, everything.
• 54:53
  I mean, for example, Harvey Harvey, Weinstein is such a big
• 54:57
  example of that. I remember reading just a bit on
• 55:02
  him, I was just curious about a year ago.
• 55:06
  I was just wanted to kind of read up on it and I remembered
• 55:09
  afterwards. I started watching just some
• 55:11
  random movies and I just kept seeing his name in the credits
• 55:14
  like all. All the time just constantly and
• 55:16
  I know obviously his his spread was was wide and far and he was
• 55:22
  involved in many different things.
• 55:24
  But like he like at one point he pretty much couldn't be in a
• 55:28
  major movie without his involvement in some shape or
• 55:32
  form, which is a scary thing to think about, you know, you're
• 55:34
  trying to make it as an actor and actress.
• 55:37
  And he's basically telling you like, yeah, you can be in this
• 55:40
  role but you have to do this for me and that thing might end up
• 55:43
  being something. Wildly disgusting and
• 55:46
  inappropriate and it's crazy. Yeah, I truly hope that that's
• 55:52
  been fully eradicated from the industry.
• 55:55
  I mean, you never know for certain but, you know, at least
• 56:00
  at least at least people are coming out.
• 56:01
  And speaking about these things, that's one Saving Grace at least
• 56:06
  well and to be fair I used to see some strange things that
• 56:12
  Casey to wear. people were trying to get like a There's a
• 56:21
  project let's say. And somebody wanted that role.
• 56:26
  As of associate producer, something like that or a
• 56:31
  researcher and she came directly to the woman that he had hired
• 56:39
  to be his producer and he said, she said to him her she said to
• 56:45
  her I'm going to get that job because I've been sleeping with
• 56:49
  that man. For you know Brian and it's
• 56:56
  mine, you know, and The Other Woman Just shrugs, you know, she
• 57:03
  said, well, I have the position, I have the job, you know?
• 57:07
  But you know, who do you blame that situation?
• 57:12
  You know, I mean both both of them, it was consensual but the
• 57:18
  woman herself even just came out and admitted it that she was You
• 57:25
  know, using her sexuality to try to get ahead.
• 57:30
  So unfortunately that's just something that even to this day,
• 57:34
  still get people jobs and roles you know, you can try to to
• 57:38
  prevent it but it is these things.
• 57:40
  And it's not just that, you know, things like nepotism
• 57:42
  still, you know, like it kind of broke my heart years ago when I
• 57:46
  realized that like, to be honest Your Merit and hard work like
• 57:55
  rarely in a dinner, like a working for someone situation,
• 58:00
  rarely gets you the recognition and rewards that you truly
• 58:06
  deserve. I mean I'm not saying it never
• 58:07
  happens because there's plenty of good companies out there and
• 58:10
  and the due reward their workers and do you know, give them what
• 58:13
  they deserve. But a lot of the time it's like
• 58:16
  you often hear about the same thing.
• 58:17
  I've been on the receiving it you know work King tirelessly in
• 58:20
  a job working. Crazy hours, you know, thinking
• 58:24
  that that will, you know, get me the job that I want or get me,
• 58:28
  those that extra recognition at. Surely they'll notice this and
• 58:33
  reward me and then all that happens is you just set the bar
• 58:37
  really high and then that becomes the expectation.
• 58:40
  And then when you can't meet that because, you know, you're a
• 58:43
  human being and little robot, you just get thrown out, you
• 58:48
  know, you just get tossed. Way because I think that's the
• 58:50
  thing that people forget as well is that like, you can easily be
• 58:55
  replaced. You can easily be pushed out
• 58:57
  position and like that example, that you gave that producer,
• 59:02
  could have been the best producer ever.
• 59:05
  She could have been just fantastic.
• 59:07
  Brilliant like Irreplaceable. But then that other woman who's
• 59:11
  got that particular link. Let's say to the the older boss,
• 59:16
  she just gets it because of that link and it's like that's not
• 59:18
  fair. That's Not just, that's not
• 59:20
  right, but that often will just happen because if like, who owns
• 59:24
  the company or, you know, it's sickening that this happens,
• 59:31
  truly is, and that's why it's all the more brilliant when you
• 59:34
  see, someone get what they deserve in a good way and you
• 59:39
  know how hard they've worked for it and you know how much, you
• 59:44
  know, they've been rejected or how many times they've struggled
• 59:48
  excetera. And they finally got it and a
• 59:51
  bit and you can celebrate with them.
• 59:52
  And that's a really awesome thing to see and whatnot, but
• 59:56
  it's very frustrating. Yeah, I remember once, I've told
• 59:59
  this story before but I was quickly add this here.
• 1:00:01
  Like I was working because 18 19, I was working really crazy
• 1:00:07
  hours and it's like supermarket. And at the time I was kind of
• 1:00:11
  unsure what I wanted to do with my life.
• 1:00:14
  You know, I was pursuing music as well.
• 1:00:16
  It was an okay. Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah, it was it was just a supermarket job and you know,
• 1:00:22
  maybe it wouldn't amount to much but I really did work hard like
• 1:00:25
  that. There was like a supervisor role
• 1:00:27
  that they kept hanging above my head.
• 1:00:29
  Like yeah, yeah I can get this. I deserve this.
• 1:00:32
  I know I can do this and they kept giving me false hope they
• 1:00:35
  were like, yeah you know, we're doing that.
• 1:00:36
  Cause that course is coming, it's coming, it's coming but
• 1:00:40
  then things would happen. Like oh yeah, oh sorry, it's not
• 1:00:42
  happening this time. Now the six months passes.
• 1:00:46
  Oh yeah, this guys coming in and then here's where I started to
• 1:00:51
  annoy me and I just lost all motivation.
• 1:00:54
  Like I'm I lost motivation after about eight months just from you
• 1:00:58
  know them lying to me and stuff like that and working hard and
• 1:01:00
  getting nothing. But a big thing that really
• 1:01:03
  annoyed me was they bring someone in I train them to
• 1:01:10
  basically do the job and then they become my manager.
• 1:01:15
  What? And like I was like, and then
• 1:01:20
  they'd start trying to tell me what to do.
• 1:01:21
  And I might hang on. Like, and and, and, and another
• 1:01:25
  thing, and this happened in multiple jobs as well.
• 1:01:27
  And where you, like, the managers doesn't they might
• 1:01:31
  sometimes ask you like, hey, I need you to just manage while
• 1:01:34
  I'm gone and you're like, yeah, no problem.
• 1:01:37
  All day or they just leave and you just have to just manage
• 1:01:41
  yourself and you end up being a de facto boss even though you
• 1:01:44
  didn't ask for it and you do a good job but they don't reward
• 1:01:47
  you for it. And you're like this isn't fair.
• 1:01:51
  This isn't real, but that's life.
• 1:01:54
  And that's the that's yeah. That's the tough part about it.
• 1:01:56
  I think that not every company is going to be that that not
• 1:02:00
  every business owners going to be like that.
• 1:02:03
  I always employed people to go pursue their own thing, be their
• 1:02:06
  own boss. I think that's the best way to
• 1:02:07
  go about it, but if you are pursuing a career I think it's
• 1:02:12
  important to try just maintain good relations with everyone as
• 1:02:17
  best. You can don't obviously kiss
• 1:02:19
  other anyone's asses or anything like that.
• 1:02:21
  I don't believe in that but try your best to get on with people.
• 1:02:25
  And hopefully it'll work out because I think that that ski
• 1:02:28
  really isn't it. A lot of the time is not so much
• 1:02:32
  being good at your job, but being liked is that actually
• 1:02:35
  more important? Because we forget this as well.
• 1:02:37
  We think. Oh well, you know, they're going
• 1:02:39
  to appreciate my Socialism my hard work and my attitude and
• 1:02:44
  it's like they don't care about any of that.
• 1:02:46
  What they care about is do I like this person?
• 1:02:48
  Can I stand to see you every day?
• 1:02:52
  Abla. But that thing I've heard about
• 1:02:56
  whether they say supposedly when you walk into a job interview,
• 1:02:59
  they've already decided if they want you in the first 20
• 1:03:01
  seconds. And the rest is just something
• 1:03:05
  I've heard, but it makes sense when you think about it.
• 1:03:07
  But, you know, sometimes like I'm sure you've had this where
• 1:03:11
  you have like a group interview situation, it's the worst, I
• 1:03:14
  hate this. But have you ever been in a
• 1:03:16
  group interview before? No.
• 1:03:20
  Okay. Well what I can tell you about
• 1:03:22
  it, right? Is an interview is bad enough,
• 1:03:25
  right? We can all relate to that.
• 1:03:27
  Imagine you're in a room. Well, firstly, a lot of the
• 1:03:29
  time, they'll keep you in the this one or two ways, they'll do
• 1:03:34
  it, right? So, okay, this isn't a group
• 1:03:36
  interview but like, sometimes you will be in that little
• 1:03:39
  meeting area where everyone's sitting down and you're clearly
• 1:03:42
  all there for the same interview and you go one by one and you
• 1:03:45
  see the person come back and maybe they look happy.
• 1:03:48
  Maybe they look miserable, who knows?
• 1:03:50
  And that's that's number one, number two, and actual group
• 1:03:53
  situation. They normally won't tell you.
• 1:03:57
  You just walk into the room and there's Pete.
• 1:03:59
  There's loads of people, it's not just you and now you've got
• 1:04:03
  a try to like, A form I guess. Now, you got to be like, oh,
• 1:04:09
  it's me I'm the one that you want.
• 1:04:12
  So I'm the best worker and it's just becomes like a horrible
• 1:04:16
  experience, trying to win people over and it's like, this isn't
• 1:04:19
  this isn't what it's about. This isn't right this.
• 1:04:22
  Yeah, what, you know? But that's what you have to do.
• 1:04:25
  You have to perform, play it up a little bit and then,
• 1:04:28
  hopefully, you'll get to the next stage and then that's when
• 1:04:31
  you can really be like, okay? So this is why you should employ
• 1:04:33
  me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:04:34
  But like, Like some companies will just get straight to the
• 1:04:38
  point. The good companies will just be
• 1:04:39
  like, hey, what can you do for us?
• 1:04:42
  Okay, great. Yeah.
• 1:04:43
  All right, we'll give it a shot. That's a good company.
• 1:04:45
  A Bad Company. Most companies tend to just make
• 1:04:49
  you jump through hoops until they eventually decide.
• 1:04:52
  Yeah. Okay, well employ, this person
• 1:04:55
  It's this late. Like it's just and some of the
• 1:04:59
  some of the stuff they ask you in interview.
• 1:05:01
  Sorry, I digress by just since we're talking about us with
• 1:05:03
  Fighters out, like some of the stuff they ask you like, where
• 1:05:08
  do you see yourself in five years?
• 1:05:12
  Like, I don't even know what I'm gonna have for lunch today.
• 1:05:14
  Law, would you mean five-year, like who thinks about that?
• 1:05:18
  Like really like you sure. Everyone has goals and aims, but
• 1:05:21
  like life changes all the time. Like the goal, the Ames shift,
• 1:05:26
  and Automate. Like of course they say things
• 1:05:29
  like oh you know I want your job.
• 1:05:32
  Ha ha ha. You know I want to do that.
• 1:05:34
  I mean sometimes I've said in interviews like well I'd like to
• 1:05:38
  maybe run my own firm marketing or you know, I'd go like to go
• 1:05:42
  freelance which I am now you know like but Yeah, I don't lie
• 1:05:47
  anymore. I'm just very brutally honest,
• 1:05:49
  and interviews and sometimes that's to a fault, but I just
• 1:05:53
  can't sit there and lie and be like, oh boy.
• 1:05:55
  I would love to work 50 hours a week and get nothing.
• 1:05:59
  Yeah, that sounds great like no, come on.
• 1:06:06
  Anyway, speaking of different jobs and actually you can I ask
• 1:06:10
  you but on that on that topic have you had any sort of crazy
• 1:06:15
  job interview experiences anything good?
• 1:06:19
  Bad ugly. I did have an interview with
• 1:06:27
  some wheels and really nervy who's just talking to me.
• 1:06:30
  But I was an extra on the film. Yeah, he talking to me and he
• 1:06:37
  said he was the casting person. He was saying, so what do you
• 1:06:44
  do? Like I said, I over writer and
• 1:06:46
  he said, what do you writing about?
• 1:06:48
  Oh, don't tell me. He said, I bet you're writing
• 1:06:51
  about your romantic life. Or something like that, you
• 1:06:55
  know, maybe and he said, knowing your background because I would
• 1:07:03
  guess I was I told him that my mother was Japanese, okay?
• 1:07:08
  And definitely is American. She was born in LA.
• 1:07:14
  And during World War Two, she was in turn, the whole family
• 1:07:18
  went to internment camps. Oh wow.
• 1:07:23
  The so my grandmother died in Wyoming even though they had
• 1:07:28
  property out in California along the ocean because they were
• 1:07:33
  farmers. And then my father side is
• 1:07:39
  Chinese and he joined the army because he was in Hawaii when
• 1:07:44
  they bombed Pearl Harbor. And so he joined the US Army.
• 1:07:51
  It's so well one of my parents were in Camp you know the other
• 1:07:55
  one is in the army fighting you know or what he was supposed to
• 1:08:00
  be a part of a certain unit thing that he didn't get into
• 1:08:05
  it. But He's the casting director
• 1:08:11
  said now that's what you should write about your parents because
• 1:08:15
  they're really have a story. You know, there that that's an
• 1:08:20
  interesting story to tell and I thought yeah, I guess so but I,
• 1:08:29
  I don't, I don't know if, you know, I guess a part of me felt
• 1:08:32
  like, I don't know them. Well enough, really it's under
• 1:08:39
  your parents but I don't really I couldn't really tell like why
• 1:08:44
  they fell in love and things like that, you know?
• 1:08:47
  Because things change that he said, how do you see yourself in
• 1:08:51
  five years when you look back on your parents life?
• 1:08:56
  And There's so many questions. I wish I could have asked them.
• 1:09:02
  Hmm. Well, I had a chance.
• 1:09:06
  I want to say on a side note like with that guy.
• 1:09:08
  Like, first of all, he sounds like an ass.
• 1:09:12
  If you're still alive, you're an ass and you're listening to
• 1:09:15
  this. You're an ass.
• 1:09:19
  Even if that is true like come on.
• 1:09:21
  You don't say that to someone like oh yeah you're not
• 1:09:24
  interested in but your parents pray.
• 1:09:26
  Like, come on. What would we expect that you're
• 1:09:28
  gonna be like oh yeah brilliant. Like you know like I've had
• 1:09:32
  people be that rude to me before and I imagine that your response
• 1:09:36
  was probably just quiet thinking like but yeah like because it's
• 1:09:41
  like it sounds like someone is so rude that you're just like
• 1:09:45
  wow. But you know, even angry.
• 1:09:47
  You're just like, wow. That's just.
• 1:09:49
  Wow. But yeah, speaking speaking
• 1:09:58
  about that though, just just for a sec, I realized like obviously
• 1:10:02
  you didn't even ask them lots of stuff.
• 1:10:03
  But like, did you ever ask your parents about that?
• 1:10:07
  Did you ever like they ever? Did they ever talk about those
• 1:10:10
  experiences like like to talk about it for one?
• 1:10:16
  yeah, it was Bad memories for both of them, I think.
• 1:10:22
  Sure. Yeah.
• 1:10:23
  So my mother would always say oh, I don't remember, you know?
• 1:10:28
  And we show how old would she have been in probably in her
• 1:10:34
  mid-20s. What happened to her was when
• 1:10:39
  they first got off the Japanese-Americans from Southern
• 1:10:44
  Cal and you know in l.a. they took they all sent them to Santa
• 1:10:49
  neither racetracks would be stayed in Stables the horse
• 1:10:53
  stables. Wow.
• 1:10:56
  And my mother contracted tuberculosis there.
• 1:11:01
  So she was in a TB Ward for seven years during the war and
• 1:11:07
  the rest of the family was sent to Hart Mountain.
• 1:11:10
  Wyoming, And my grandmother thought they were trying to
• 1:11:17
  poison them because she was used to eating certain foods, like
• 1:11:21
  rice and fish and vegetables and they were giving her milk and
• 1:11:27
  Shredded Wheat. She's in not really in their
• 1:11:32
  diet, you know, traditional Japanese.
• 1:11:35
  She was, because my grandmother was born in Japan and she
• 1:11:39
  thought that was straw. They were trying to poison her
• 1:11:44
  and funny thing is I like shredded we like, because I'm an
• 1:11:49
  American, but she was, you know, she wasn't used to, it was cold
• 1:11:55
  and she was used to being, you know, nice and temperate climate
• 1:11:59
  in California and So I guess that was sad, you know, said
• 1:12:07
  times. Like I said, good, yeah, she
• 1:12:11
  didn't want to talk about it. And yeah, people deal with
• 1:12:17
  trauma in different ways than thereby.
• 1:12:19
  I would imagine and pick some people.
• 1:12:22
  I've met over the years. So when I was living in Europe,
• 1:12:24
  it was a similar thing. You'd ask them about these
• 1:12:26
  experiences and they'd say like, hey I'm living in the here and
• 1:12:29
  now you know that was then this is now and I get that you know
• 1:12:33
  that father, is to say that when I've asked him about past, he's
• 1:12:36
  like I'm right here. This is where I need to be and I
• 1:12:41
  respect that, I get that. I think that Yeah.
• 1:12:45
  I never used to understand it as much in the past but I get it
• 1:12:48
  now. I think I understand this
• 1:12:50
  concept of like triggering things.
• 1:12:52
  I think it can be a very dangerous thing sometimes,
• 1:12:56
  especially if you've kind of built up like a defense to
• 1:13:02
  something that you've kind of internalized, it in some way.
• 1:13:06
  Maybe you've resolved it you come to terms with it and then
• 1:13:09
  when you're forced to kind of revisit it, I think that can
• 1:13:11
  kind of One, quite like we opened Old Wounds cause damage
• 1:13:17
  caused problems. So imagine for them, they
• 1:13:18
  probably just wanted to move on with our lives and just, you
• 1:13:21
  know, okay. These were horrible experiences
• 1:13:24
  but that doesn't need to be what my whole life is, its kind of
• 1:13:28
  thing. Maybe I'm just theorizing, but
• 1:13:32
  yeah, but one more happier note like, how do you did your
• 1:13:37
  parents talk about like, how how they met?
• 1:13:41
  Yes. Yeah, I got two versions.
• 1:13:47
  My father said I used, I saw this woman with great legs high
• 1:13:52
  heels. She was very fashionable hat and
• 1:13:57
  she was walking down the Going to work, you know, and she would
• 1:14:02
  stuff off at the coffee shop and read Time Magazine.
• 1:14:09
  So my mother said, there was this guy who kept stalking me.
• 1:14:18
  He was a real smooth talker and he would, he always knew where I
• 1:14:22
  was going to have lunch and we're going to sew the court
• 1:14:37
  show. He was older She's older.
• 1:14:45
  Oh she's all right. Seven years.
• 1:14:48
  So she was sort of looking at him like you're just a kid in a
• 1:14:52
  way you know and he was like I guess if she was like 30 when
• 1:15:00
  they met or 31 he was only 23 or something 24.
• 1:15:08
  Yeah yeah. That's a, yeah.
• 1:15:18
  She bring it back to yourself. Like would you say that?
• 1:15:22
  I mean, obviously parents have like a profound impact on their
• 1:15:25
  children, but as you kind of sort of said, quite firmly
• 1:15:28
  there, like you consider yourself American.
• 1:15:30
  Like, that's the country, your boy and that's what how you're
• 1:15:33
  raised. So To what extent did they have
• 1:15:38
  an impact on your life and how you think and feel and live your
• 1:15:42
  life? Interesting.
• 1:15:48
  Um, well, I've never felt anything but be pleased to say,
• 1:15:55
  you know, they come directly up to me and say, what are you?
• 1:15:59
  And I'd say, thank you. I'm Japanese and Chinese and
• 1:16:02
  American. And I'd always have to explain
• 1:16:05
  the American part because people look at you there and if they're
• 1:16:10
  not sure what's going to come out your mouth, you know, I
• 1:16:13
  could speak Japanese or Chinese. These and I don't know either
• 1:16:16
  language because my parents didn't speak it to us.
• 1:16:20
  Oh really, that's interesting. Oh my father, they're never knew
• 1:16:25
  that Chinese. It's been like fourth-generation
• 1:16:31
  Hawaiian. The little they never, you know,
• 1:16:35
  they were just English, my mother forgot most of her
• 1:16:40
  Japanese because she was schooled in English.
• 1:16:45
  I'd go home and then her parents would say, no, you can't speak
• 1:16:49
  English in the house. You want to speak English?
• 1:16:52
  You have to go to the barn, you know?
• 1:16:55
  And so the kids would go to Florence.
• 1:16:57
  They could talk to each other. It was a big family and because
• 1:17:01
  that was that was more natural for them, you know.
• 1:17:06
  And Japanese was like a second language to them as opposed to
• 1:17:12
  even though, you know. Her mother spoke to her
• 1:17:17
  Japanese. She wasn't schooled that way.
• 1:17:22
  So she was very American and she, she did all sorts of things
• 1:17:28
  that shocked, the family, like, Japanese just was have long
• 1:17:33
  straight black hair, right? Well, when she was 13, she got
• 1:17:37
  to cut and she got a curl a perm, and she was wearing makeup
• 1:17:44
  and you know, And she and they were very religious families.
• 1:17:50
  That was horrifying for them and she way to read all of the
• 1:17:57
  banned books. Anything that was banned, she
• 1:18:02
  read those books, you know, the church said, no, you can't read
• 1:18:06
  this. You can't read Candy by
• 1:18:08
  Voltaire. She's a rebel awesome.
• 1:18:19
  You mentioned earlier that you interviewed for extra role in a
• 1:18:24
  movie. That was a Kevin Costner movie
• 1:18:25
  was a nah. It's all right.
• 1:18:27
  Oh yeah the movie was it was Club.
• 1:18:33
  No Way Out. No Way Out.
• 1:18:37
  It had Sean Young Gene, Hackman and David Bowie's wife has a
• 1:18:46
  short roll, a small role in the team on cool.
• 1:18:50
  Yeah. So this was early in his career.
• 1:18:55
  Don't really see it done. Maybe one or two films he was
• 1:19:00
  here, done just like small roles, right?
• 1:19:06
  He had small roles in big fields, so I remember it was
• 1:19:12
  really cold. It was, it was the scene where I
• 1:19:15
  was supposed to be a streetwalker of Filipino
• 1:19:18
  streetwalker and they, they had hundreds of extras.
• 1:19:24
  Out on Terminal Island and it was 6:00 in the morning.
• 1:19:28
  It was freezing and I had this big puffy pink coat and they
• 1:19:34
  made me wear to talk, you know? And I was and I was and they
• 1:19:40
  said you can't wear your jacket in this scene.
• 1:19:43
  You have to take it off, right? So I took off the jacket and
• 1:19:48
  they took it away from me and then Kevin Costner came over and
• 1:19:53
  said your Facing here, it'll ever get my sweater.
• 1:19:58
  So they got his sweater and And we start to talk and I said to
• 1:20:07
  him I really liked you and Silverado.
• 1:20:10
  It was you were really very funny, you know and he was
• 1:20:13
  impressed that I knew who he was.
• 1:20:16
  Meanwhile there was another girl who didn't know who he was and
• 1:20:20
  thought he was just an extra, it's trying to him.
• 1:20:25
  So she was saying, why are you so nice to that scuzzball?
• 1:20:29
  You know, and someone I love You know, he's usually I get it.
• 1:20:40
  Yeah, yeah. So then, you know, they said,
• 1:20:45
  okay, we want in another scene. Oh cool.
• 1:20:49
  So I had another thing, you know, again I put me in
• 1:20:53
  another's little blouse and, um, in this scene is to go into a
• 1:21:03
  Topless bar and he's calling. Sean, Young, Kevin Costner.
• 1:21:09
  So, I'm in the foreground, not in the background, are all these
• 1:21:13
  strippers, you know, topless topless dancers, that is, and
• 1:21:21
  I'm in the foreground. So, the guy who plays the buddy,
• 1:21:25
  you know, Kevin Costner picks me up and he starts doing this and,
• 1:21:32
  you know, Dancing with me and he's like lifting up in the air
• 1:21:37
  and just kind of shaking, you know.
• 1:21:41
  And so they did that take about State times.
• 1:21:44
  I remember and during the filming, well, during the lunch
• 1:21:50
  actually was where I felt this tension between the writer and
• 1:21:57
  Kevin Costner. Because Costner was writer came
• 1:22:01
  up to me as I was waiting in line.
• 1:22:03
  Time for the lunch buffet and he said, hi, I'm the least
• 1:22:08
  important person on this production.
• 1:22:10
  I was screwing writer. And would you like to sit over
• 1:22:15
  there with us? You know, with you know, and
• 1:22:19
  they said, oh, all right, and he asked me my name and I'd like
• 1:22:24
  that, you know? So the next I go and pick my
• 1:22:27
  stuff up to there and then Kevin Costner seasoning with Robert
• 1:22:32
  Carlin screenwriter and says, oh Garland, this is pam.
• 1:22:39
  Pam, this is Garland and he suddenly his voice.
• 1:22:42
  Changed. It was almost like hostile, you
• 1:22:45
  know, and like into the evening. He was saying to me.
• 1:22:50
  What are you going to do after this?
• 1:22:51
  Where you going? Yeah and I think the
• 1:22:56
  screenwriter gave me his number. We exchanged numbers by then and
• 1:23:01
  I said well I'm just going to have dinner with my family and
• 1:23:05
  my brother came in from out of town and you know very
• 1:23:09
  innocently and I he was Oh, like he was relieved or something,
• 1:23:14
  you know, and like I'm gonna go out this and writer.
• 1:23:20
  Oh, he just didn't like the writer, I guess, they did not
• 1:23:24
  find him. Yeah, I mean, he's this close to
• 1:23:27
  him because he hired them to do a couple of movies, you know, to
• 1:23:31
  write a couple of movies with him, but apparently Costner was
• 1:23:37
  sort of on proud during that time, even though he was
• 1:23:42
  Married, so naughty naughty. Yes, that was a little bit.
• 1:23:52
  Sounds like a pretty cool and varied experience of rules,
• 1:23:56
  interesting Insight. So as I mean, I've only ever
• 1:24:01
  been on a few movie sets like, big Productions and I don't
• 1:24:05
  know, from my experience was, it was just boring, it's just
• 1:24:10
  waiting around for Ages and ages and maybe it's just action
• 1:24:16
  films. Maybe it's just that but this is
• 1:24:18
  the scan something please happen but I did it talking to talking
• 1:24:24
  to people on set is always interesting actually like I
• 1:24:27
  don't know like for me when I was on ten I spoke a lot to like
• 1:24:31
  the costume designer and some of the production agents and stuff.
• 1:24:35
  And that was interesting. You know, what weird thing was,
• 1:24:39
  I remember on that set their mind.
• 1:24:41
  I was in Sonia. When that was being filmed and I
• 1:24:46
  saw someone I went to school with and as I can't be and I
• 1:24:51
  walked over and it was and I called his name and he kind of
• 1:24:54
  looked a bit stunned as well. We just looked at each other for
• 1:24:56
  her second. It's like hey.
• 1:24:58
  And then we just had a conversation for about half an
• 1:25:00
  hour and it's just like life is weird.
• 1:25:07
  Yeah, listen. Thank you.
• 1:25:09
  Thank you for sharing those bread is bread in moving it
• 1:25:13
  Forward. I just like to kind of ask a
• 1:25:16
  couple of questions about your suppose light what you've
• 1:25:20
  learned in life like what's the best advice you've ever
• 1:25:22
  received? Well.
• 1:25:29
  My mother used to say if you want to fall in love.
• 1:25:37
  Fall in love, get married, get married have kids, whatever.
• 1:25:41
  That always be, financially self-sufficient and I thought
• 1:25:46
  that was a strange. My mother was working at a time
• 1:25:50
  when most mothers just stayed home and were there for the
• 1:25:54
  kids, you know? And her their husbands come home
• 1:25:57
  from work and they and my mother worked 40 hours a week.
• 1:26:01
  So, it was different and I think she instilled Need that sense of
• 1:26:07
  autonomy that I really need to always.
• 1:26:11
  I think it's sort of sounds selfish, but you do have to put
• 1:26:15
  yourself first. You have to think about how to
• 1:26:20
  take care of yourself before you can even, Think about being in a
• 1:26:25
  relationship, even know. Otherwise, it comes very
• 1:26:32
  codependent. You know, I totally agree with
• 1:26:36
  that concept. I mean, I'm single but I've had
• 1:26:40
  a lot of time to think about what I want in a relationship.
• 1:26:43
  And I think I've kind of come to a similar mindset of what your
• 1:26:48
  mom has, which is that, I think not, not just with being
• 1:26:52
  self-sufficient, but I think it's like the best scenario is
• 1:26:56
  that it's two individual people coming together.
• 1:27:00
  And like sharing a life, but still having their own lives,
• 1:27:04
  you know, you still have time for your stealth yourself.
• 1:27:07
  Sorry. You still have a career.
• 1:27:10
  Have these different things that you goals.
• 1:27:12
  You know, you your life doesn't just end or stop for that other
• 1:27:15
  person, you know, and I get the different relationships are
• 1:27:17
  different and whatnot, but I just think generally that's the
• 1:27:21
  best situation because if you do it in that manner, then it
• 1:27:27
  prevents things like resentment from happening.
• 1:27:29
  You hear it, sir. Many times in relationships with
• 1:27:31
  people, you know, they put aside their dreams and hopes to have
• 1:27:35
  family or something or like what is it?
• 1:27:41
  I suppose. It's maybe it's different if you
• 1:27:42
  have kids but like maybe maybe they put aside their dreams and
• 1:27:47
  hopes for their partner, let's say and then they began to
• 1:27:51
  resent them over time and it's that wall.
• 1:27:54
  That's kind of the key, isn't it?
• 1:27:55
  You shouldn't put yourself to one site like you, it's you.
• 1:27:59
  That's your life, you know? And it's difficult.
• 1:28:02
  Like, I mean, especially if you add other things into the
• 1:28:05
  equation, another person children Etc, but still got to
• 1:28:09
  make time for you. But that whole self-sufficiency
• 1:28:13
  thing from US Financial standpoint, I think that's smart
• 1:28:15
  because Anything Could Happen? Yeah, you don't know.
• 1:28:18
  You could break up tomorrow, get divorce whatever.
• 1:28:20
  It's like we're going to do. What are you going to do?
• 1:28:23
  Is I've been married. Okay times and divorced and I
• 1:28:33
  remember my first marriage? No, well, my, he didn't even
• 1:28:38
  have the checking account. He was 12 years older than me or
• 1:28:44
  11 years old me and for some reason he didn't have any credit
• 1:28:48
  cards and they credit any any you know he didn't even have a
• 1:28:52
  checking account, he just used cash and sounds dodgy.
• 1:28:56
  I'm sorry. I cool I could be S right there.
• 1:28:59
  What's going on there? with my geology Professor so
• 1:29:05
  that marriage didn't last very long now watch, My weird, the
• 1:29:12
  closer in age and first thing he wanted was to get a joint
• 1:29:16
  checking account. And I was like, well, alright, I
• 1:29:21
  guess we're married, we'll have, you know, well that's great.
• 1:29:26
  We'll have a joint checking account was, what was the, but
• 1:29:31
  why would you want that? Like, I've got be, honestly, I
• 1:29:35
  would. I just be like, I wouldn't want
• 1:29:36
  that? No, no.
• 1:29:39
  And I would never do that now. You know, and at the moment at
• 1:29:42
  the time, he somehow convinced me that this was a good thing,
• 1:29:46
  you know, how and we, well, I don't know, like we would pull
• 1:29:53
  our resources somehow, you know. And and yet I remember he was
• 1:29:58
  one that was bouncing the checks, you know?
• 1:30:01
  So yeah, I was gonna say it's gonna be some sort of scheme or
• 1:30:03
  something or like this.e, B, multi-level marketing business
• 1:30:07
  scheme was only, Good on ya. I don't know.
• 1:30:17
  That's my own thing. Always have your own checking
• 1:30:19
  account. Even if you were married there,
• 1:30:22
  any other tips you could share like relationship tips that
• 1:30:26
  you've learned that you could impart to our listeners.
• 1:30:32
  Relationship tips. Oh boy.
• 1:30:36
  I think you have to be open-minded and You have to be
• 1:30:46
  kind of ready to want to have a relationship.
• 1:30:53
  You know a lot of people they will you go on sites, you know.
• 1:30:58
  And they say I don't know what I want, I don't know what I'm
• 1:31:02
  looking for and that's honest, I think more honest and saying, I
• 1:31:07
  want a relationship. I want to get married.
• 1:31:10
  You know, I mean those are so Finite.
• 1:31:14
  I mean in a way it's like how do you know you're going to be able
• 1:31:17
  to meet that person that you want to marry?
• 1:31:19
  That's a big step, you know? So just I guess allowing
• 1:31:28
  yourself to be vulnerable but not to the point of being
• 1:31:32
  foolish and Because you want to be able to be honest with the
• 1:31:40
  other person and show, you know that you're human.
• 1:31:43
  You have flaws, you don't want to hide anything and have them
• 1:31:48
  discover later, you know, you're not who you presented yourself
• 1:31:52
  to be. So, and I guess honesty and Just
• 1:32:01
  being open-minded to strangers or this is frightening, you
• 1:32:08
  know, because you don't know them. so, I guess you have to
• 1:32:13
  develop a lot of I guess inner resources, you know, to be able
• 1:32:21
  to know the difference between what seeing's like this, this
• 1:32:29
  could be a relationship or this could be a catfish, you know, I
• 1:32:34
  don't, you know, you, you have to go through that Balancing Act
• 1:32:40
  of not knowing for a while, I agree with all of that.
• 1:32:45
  But in particular what you were saying at the beginning about
• 1:32:50
  how you have to know that that you want a relationship.
• 1:32:54
  I don't think enough people think about that they think
• 1:32:58
  about what's missing from their life.
• 1:33:00
  They think about I'm lonely. Oh I want to be loved all, I
• 1:33:06
  want to be appreciated and the stand that everyone wants that,
• 1:33:11
  but a relationship. based on my understanding of it and this is
• 1:33:16
  mostly through making mistakes and having a lot of time to
• 1:33:20
  think I've been single now about four years, just saying, I'm so
• 1:33:25
  lonely that, you know, but truthfully, it's maybe it's been
• 1:33:30
  a good thing because I've sat down and I've really thought
• 1:33:33
  about Well what what is a good relationship?
• 1:33:36
  What makes a relationship work? And there are a lot of answers
• 1:33:40
  to that question, but I think one key thing in a relationship
• 1:33:45
  of any kind, be it with friends family a lover Etc, is, you have
• 1:33:52
  to be willing to put, aside your own self interests in order to
• 1:33:59
  be able to be empathetic to that person.
• 1:34:03
  And even the concept of empathy is something that I had to
• 1:34:06
  learn. You know.
• 1:34:07
  And it sounds crazy like what do you mean?
• 1:34:09
  You know, I'm pathetic. But I used to think it was like,
• 1:34:12
  oh, you give advice, you know, you're like this but actually
• 1:34:18
  And again, I could be wrong, but this is what I've learned is
• 1:34:20
  that it mainly involves just sitting down and being present
• 1:34:25
  with that person, listening to what they have to say and try.
• 1:34:29
  And yeah, it's like trying to hear that deeper thing that
• 1:34:34
  they're saying, like, don't so much pay attention to the words,
• 1:34:37
  the same, but try to here. The Deep thing that's coming
• 1:34:43
  out. So like, for example, if
• 1:34:45
  someone's telling you About you know I don't know they're just
• 1:34:50
  not happy at work there unfulfilled whatever like the
• 1:34:54
  bigger thing that they're trying to say with that is like well
• 1:34:58
  how do I change that? How do I become filled and
• 1:35:02
  appreciated excetera? You know, they don't want you to
• 1:35:04
  sit there and go, we'll have you tried this.
• 1:35:06
  Hope you tried that. They might ask you but they need
• 1:35:10
  to feel That they're in control of the situation because for
• 1:35:16
  whatever reason, they're not in that moment and bye.
• 1:35:22
  Interrupting or not listening properly or giving advice when
• 1:35:26
  it's not asked for and I'm still give this to this day and I'm
• 1:35:30
  always trying to not do that because it's very difficult when
• 1:35:34
  sometimes you hear someone saying something a lot.
• 1:35:37
  Of course it's this but then they didn't ask you and ask for
• 1:35:41
  that. They already know that probably.
• 1:35:46
  So, it's important to keep your mouth shut and just listen and
• 1:35:50
  be there and sometimes that is all someone needs. in the
• 1:35:55
  context of empathy, at least, but wider than that, as I said
• 1:36:00
  before, about the selflessness within a relationship, I think
• 1:36:03
  it's like, Understanding that it's not always going to be
• 1:36:07
  Sunshine's Daisy. Sometimes it's going to be hard.
• 1:36:11
  Sometimes a relationship is about It's kind of akin to like
• 1:36:16
  being in a storm and you're in a boat and it's feels like it's
• 1:36:22
  sinking and all you have is each other. and you've just kind of
• 1:36:26
  got a Work through it. I think that's love.
• 1:36:32
  That is cool. I think Hollywood sold us a lie,
• 1:36:35
  that stuff exists. There is romance, there is true
• 1:36:38
  love. There is kind feelings, these
• 1:36:40
  small little things. These beautiful things that make
• 1:36:42
  up love, but at the same time, it's also the bad times, the
• 1:36:46
  hard times, it's those things. That's what a lot of the time
• 1:36:50
  movies and TV. Don't show you because they only
• 1:36:53
  want to focus on the good times. Paint their little convenient
• 1:36:56
  story, but they don't tell you about Sometimes love is sitting
• 1:37:01
  there for like 5 hours, 8 hours, or all night and just listening
• 1:37:05
  to someone and continuously reassuring them.
• 1:37:08
  And, you know, I think When you when sometimes, if you walk away
• 1:37:14
  from someone, when you choose to leave someone, I think a lot at
• 1:37:17
  a time it comes down to the fact that you've exhausted every
• 1:37:21
  option when it comes to those things.
• 1:37:24
  And you just Can't make it work. Unfortunately, sometimes there's
• 1:37:29
  other reasons, just bad relationship.
• 1:37:31
  People don't work whatever. But for instance, if you're
• 1:37:34
  always being there for someone and then pathetic sooner or
• 1:37:39
  later, it's going to work and you're going to get the desired
• 1:37:42
  result. But sometimes, you know, people
• 1:37:45
  don't want to hear, don't want help.
• 1:37:48
  They just want to complain and drag you down and it's
• 1:37:51
  difficult. Sometimes you have to know when
• 1:37:53
  to walk away and protect yourself and think of Self and
• 1:37:57
  other times, you have to understand that all that someone
• 1:38:00
  needs is a little bit of compassion and a little bit of
• 1:38:03
  understanding, and they need that every once in a while.
• 1:38:06
  Like, if someone has confidence issues self-esteem issues?
• 1:38:09
  It probably just need to be pepped up and reminded how
• 1:38:12
  special they are. It's a tough one.
• 1:38:16
  So, yeah, I completely agree with your idea and you send them
• 1:38:20
  an on that. Like, I think that people don't
• 1:38:22
  think about this enough, you know, like for instance right
• 1:38:24
  now and this is the last thing I'll say on this.
• 1:38:26
  But I am tremendously lonely right now and it's hard
• 1:38:31
  sometimes. But I know that if I would just
• 1:38:35
  go for the first thing I see first thing, first opportunity,
• 1:38:39
  you know jump on that train. It's like what?
• 1:38:42
  If I don't like the destination I'm going to You know, I just
• 1:38:46
  jumped on at the random time just because I was lonely and it
• 1:38:50
  was better than feeling like I think that's worse.
• 1:38:53
  I think it's worse to jump into something that makes you
• 1:38:56
  unhappy. And I've been in that situation
• 1:38:59
  before. I've been in a relationship
• 1:39:00
  where You know, I just desperately wanted to be out of
• 1:39:03
  it because I wasn't happy and it's horrible to be in that
• 1:39:06
  situation. And being single is a is better
• 1:39:09
  than that. To be honest, you get those
• 1:39:11
  lonely moments and you get those feelings where you feel
• 1:39:13
  unlovable. You feel is a difficult time.
• 1:39:16
  But But you also learn to appreciate yourself more and
• 1:39:21
  appreciate what you deserve. And I think that's key as well
• 1:39:25
  and as cringey as it might sound cringy but cliche as it might
• 1:39:31
  sound, you do have to learn to love yourself first.
• 1:39:34
  Before you can love anyone else because that ultimately Being
• 1:39:39
  able to self care and treat yourself like a.
• 1:39:44
  I don't know. Something sacred will help you
• 1:39:47
  to do the same with the partner for the deserving partner and so
• 1:39:52
  yeah I think it's something that people don't take lightly.
• 1:39:55
  They think too much of these. These things like loan.
• 1:40:00
  I mean Jesus you can be, you can be with someone be happily
• 1:40:02
  married and have everything you want and still feel lonely.
• 1:40:05
  You know what I mean? It's I think you have to address
• 1:40:08
  the real things that you want. Do you really need or want a
• 1:40:11
  relationship or is there a deeper thing that you need to
• 1:40:14
  address within yourself? That's just my five cents on
• 1:40:19
  that. I mean I take advice from my
• 1:40:24
  daughter who's 30 and ship for 15 years.
• 1:40:30
  That's your only boyfriend you know and I I don't have
• 1:40:42
  long-term relationships, I mean, I think right now, I'm in a
• 1:40:50
  relationship that started in like 2018 and when we broke up
• 1:40:58
  in 2019 some misunderstanding I immediately rebounded with
• 1:41:05
  somebody. Yeah which was a big mistake.
• 1:41:10
  He turned out to be a recovery narcissist.
• 1:41:13
  He said heard what the hell is that?
• 1:41:16
  Okay? a lot of therapy, but he
• 1:41:22
  realized he was a narcissist and he was and There was this
• 1:41:28
  gaslighting going on for a couple of years, you know, where
• 1:41:31
  he made me feel like I wasn't good enough.
• 1:41:34
  I wasn't smart enough. He without competitive towards
• 1:41:39
  me, you know, and I wondered why I was in this relationship
• 1:41:43
  except I was just filling boy, you know, I was sort of like it
• 1:41:49
  was a convenient. To have this relationship, even
• 1:41:54
  though I wasn't happy, you know, I was sort of like, oh, I have
• 1:42:01
  it's sort of like you have the security of having someone but
• 1:42:05
  then you're not happy with that person.
• 1:42:08
  So what's the point, you know, and We when we broke up it was
• 1:42:17
  because I couldn't take the fact that he never accepted me for
• 1:42:21
  who I was you know it was all my flaws and everything like that,
• 1:42:26
  you know, or whatever, couple extra pounds I had on me, you
• 1:42:30
  know, I mean the fact that he couldn't accept that.
• 1:42:35
  Just I said that's it. I don't you know I don't want to
• 1:42:39
  be in this video, it's not rewarding for me anymore, you
• 1:42:43
  know, I don't feel It about myself, you know, you don't make
• 1:42:47
  me feel good about myself. So And then kindly and then I
• 1:42:54
  rediscovered my ex-boyfriend. So we've been together since
• 1:43:02
  Pat. But it's bad to, you know, it's
• 1:43:09
  bad to just always jump from one relationship to another and I
• 1:43:14
  had a tendency to do that even though I always wanted Idol of
• 1:43:19
  enjoyed living alone And I always had guys that wanted to
• 1:43:24
  move in with me and I've tried to resist all the time, you
• 1:43:28
  know, I was in high demand. Yeah, I lived two blocks and
• 1:43:40
  each one time, they like it, they like yeah.
• 1:43:47
  I will say, just well done for for Having the courage and
• 1:43:50
  strength to walk away in their Operation, you have to Value
• 1:43:53
  yourself and people can't drag you down, and they can't treat
• 1:43:57
  you like that, so it's never acceptable.
• 1:43:59
  Well, done, and I'm happy to hear that.
• 1:44:00
  You're in a happy relationship now.
• 1:44:02
  So, congratulations, that's awesome.
• 1:44:06
  Another deep question for you. My favorite question, what's the
• 1:44:12
  biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:44:17
  Wow. I guess.
• 1:44:25
  Never Say, Never. You don't know, you know, life
• 1:44:31
  is long. There can be long and anything
• 1:44:38
  can happen, you know? Good and bad.
• 1:44:42
  But you have to be willing to be resilient to go, which ever way
• 1:44:51
  you're being pushed, you know, you don't want to break.
• 1:44:55
  So, you bend, and But it's sort of like, saying.
• 1:45:05
  Where do you see yourself five years from now?
• 1:45:08
  You know, for someone like me, I could be dead in five years.
• 1:45:12
  No, no, gonna get a living. Can be very healthy.
• 1:45:15
  Don't worry about that. I am or I could live for another
• 1:45:19
  30 years. Yes.
• 1:45:20
  Yeah, right. And you like 100 years old but
• 1:45:32
  Biggest life lesson is to be loved, I think to love somebody.
• 1:45:39
  I think it's it is better to love and to be loved, I have
• 1:45:45
  having had a child. I've kind of realized that my
• 1:45:51
  life was secondary to hers that she would always come first and
• 1:45:57
  that That's my role. Now, you know, once I became a
• 1:46:01
  mother was to give her a life. She didn't ask to be born.
• 1:46:06
  So try to give her the happiest life I could, you know, and, and
• 1:46:14
  trying to help other people. Because I spent so much time
• 1:46:18
  trying to advance my own career, or my own romances, or whatever
• 1:46:24
  it comes down to other people, you know, you want to be, you
• 1:46:28
  want to be kind to other people. Thanks for sharing this amazing
• 1:46:36
  stuff on this day. As we draw things to a close for
• 1:46:40
  today. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:46:42
  projects or some final thoughts? You'd like to share with our
• 1:46:44
  listeners? See projects.
• 1:46:50
  Well I still don't have the courage to go live on Tick-Tock.
• 1:46:56
  I'll do it. Do it.
• 1:46:57
  I'll people love it. It'd be brilliant.
• 1:47:01
  I don't know what time to go on, because I think about most of
• 1:47:06
  the people I've met to tick tock is through you.
• 1:47:10
  They're mostly in the UK, so that would be she'll come for
• 1:47:17
  nian time. It's like, yeah, morning time
• 1:47:20
  for you basically, I'll be the best time because that's evening
• 1:47:26
  mid-evening time, hear it too late.
• 1:47:28
  The evening, something other Yeah.
• 1:47:31
  But yeah, definitely do that 100% great.
• 1:47:35
  You'd be very good at think. People would really love to
• 1:47:37
  hear. You talk and share your thoughts
• 1:47:40
  and insights on life and do your poetry, of course.
• 1:47:43
  Yeah, go for it. Okay, I'll try to get up the
• 1:47:48
  nerve. Awesome.
• 1:47:53
  I know, I know but it would be good.
• 1:47:56
  You enjoy it for sure. Okay well I want to say a
• 1:48:02
  massive thank you for being on the show.
• 1:48:04
  It's been an absolute pleasure and yeah just massive.
• 1:48:09
  Thank you for agreeing to do this has been really enjoyable.
• 1:48:15
  And it's all of the listeners of the Christian Reef podcast.
• 1:48:18
  Be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.