Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the delightful Jack Rees about his choice of Kill the Moon

Transcript

Talks to the delightful Jack Rees about his choice of Kill the Moon · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None. A hamster with a blump.
• 0:34
  Pen Knife For doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:40
  Welcome back here. A hamster with a blump penknife.
• 0:43
  The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast, Mister Jack Reese.
• 0:48
  Hello. Welcome back.
• 0:49
  Hello, thank you for having me back.
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  I've. Got something to tell you
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  though? Your cash from Our episodes were
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  massively popular. Really.
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  I kicked into the top ten of TV reviews that week.
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  What of all the TV review podcasts?
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  There we go. What other TV review podcasts
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  are there? Are you kidding me?
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  There's thousands of the bloody things.
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  I'm usually fine out with. The Gilmore Girls people, the
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  Friends people. Toby Haydock's one.
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  You know, those sort of people. But you inched me into the top
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  ten. I'm not there very often.
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  Usually the 20, but not the top 10.
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  It must be the fact that you know you were systematically
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  deconstructing your childhood and actually realising
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  throughout that podcast that Doctor Who was in fact really
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  shit. That was the conclusion.
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  Absolutely. Was therapy really, you know?
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  Yeah, it's. I'm wondering, do these other
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  podcasts, is it like cheerleading gangs?
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  Do you all have like a bit of a rivalry?
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  And do you meet up and have like?
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  Gang fights? No.
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  I told me I would be Gilmore Girls podcast.
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  Nothing in common with them at all.
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  Well, you know, too hot for TV's in there every now and again
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  trap one. So the Doctor Who ones sort of
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  jump about the place. But yeah, I usually shot pretty
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  well, but I've tried extremely well that week, so thank you
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  very much. Yeah, yeah.
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  Good. Good.
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  Well, happy to help. I don't.
• 2:11
  I don't think Cashabel was a big favorite of many peoples.
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  Not even like Doctor Who fans, I think.
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  It's weren't yours at the end of that commentary as well.
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  I found myself questioning why I liked it as well.
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  What a wonderful, uplifting experience it was.
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  I've got to say, though, that I'm a little on the fence with
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  the episode we're talking about today, so I'm already at that
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  point. Whereas after you like it a lot.
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  Oh yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it.
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  Well, what is it we're going to talk about tonight?
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  We're going to talk about Kill the Moon.
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  Yeah, that's not a popular episode, Jack.
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  Again, I. Think I missed this was when
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  this aired. It was probably I was probably
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  like 2025, so I wasn't really going on either forums or social
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  media to know what the reaction was.
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  So I was completely disconnected from what Fandom thought of the
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  TV series at the time. So if anything, it's a bit of a
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  place to be. What a great place to be.
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  In fact, you know, I actually said to someone recently, watch
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  the episode and then leave it a week, don't go looking for any
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  other opinions, form your opinion.
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  And then if you want to go and look after that, and I think
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  probably for most people, I think most people go on and then
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  the bitching starts and then, you know, that's why they hate
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  everything. Yeah, that's a bit of.
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  A problem, but you know, can't tell you a story, right?
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  When Star Beast, Wild Blue Yonder and The Giggle came out,
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  yeah, I had a great time with the Star Beast.
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  Then I chat to your brother afterwards, who absolutely
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  loathed the thing. And it proceeded to tell me why
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  it was the worst bit of television you've seen in the
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  last two decades. I was like, oh, and then I'll
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  watch it again. I was like, oh, I didn't enjoy
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  it as much anymore. So yeah, you're right.
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  I think it's a good place to be. Ignore everyone else and made
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  your own opinion. Also, I think maybe just I I
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  feel like I need to just not listen to any publicity at all.
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  I need to be taken to like a dark room and with with like 2
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  minutes warning to say there's new Doctor Who on and then they
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  put a bag over my head and then they put me in a van and then
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  they take me to watch the episode and then I stay in the
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  room for a week and then I come out and it's fine.
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  Are you sort of one and out you watch it once and and then maybe
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  you watch it again in a couple of years I've.
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  Re watched it less and less. It's very rare that I rewatch an
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  episode. I used to do it all the time,
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  but it has to be a really good one.
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  But now The thing is that now, as I've just moved in with my
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  girlfriend, we're doing like a condensed rewatch of a lot of
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  the new series. And there's actually a chance
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  for me to watch all the things that I've only seen once or I've
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  forgotten about, you know, things like the the, the, the
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  woman who lived. I have no memories of that
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  whatsoever. Like watching that was like
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  watching a missing episode. I don't.
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  Have a clue what that's about? Is that the one with the Lion
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  Man in it? The The Lion Man.
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  And yeah, the doctor basically helped stage a house robbery
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  with a highway man. And it was great because there
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  was no expectations to watch it. Obviously all the things that I
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  disliked about it the first time were there, but there was way
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  more for me to like again, because the pressure of of it,
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  the pressure of it being, you know, the newest Doctor,
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  whoever, that's got to be amazing wasn't there.
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  So most of the of the new series is a lot better than I remember
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  it being. It's just extremely competent.
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  I think we do have this issue that every episode has to be the
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  best thing ever or is going to be cancelled like it was in
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  1989, you know? Since she's not here, can I ask
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  you sort of what periods did your girlfriend particularly
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  like then? So we saw a bit of, we did a bit
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  of tenant. So I'm trying to cut out all of
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  the things that I think are bad and it but to her it's still,
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  you know an OK TV show. She doesn't think it's the best
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  thing ever. She thinks that Matt Smith is
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  the best Doctor, and she had no preconceptions of him.
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  She'd never seen him before, and she had no idea what he'd be
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  like. But a few episodes into series
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  five, she was like, I can't imagine any other person playing
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  the Doctor. Oh wow.
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  I mean, that's not an unpopular opinion.
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  I think a lot of people think that about Matt Smith.
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  No, I I think that his Series 5 performance is the best the
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  Doctor's ever been. You said Series 5 very
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  specifically, then. But yeah, most of it's she, she
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  she it's all she's a big Harry Potter fan, so it's going down
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  well with her. So she's a big fan of Riversong,
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  a big fan of Rory, a big fan of Missy.
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  So nothing's really so that has been particularly bad.
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  So the sign that it's a good relationship.
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  Yeah. Hey, I'm in a relationship with
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  a Doctor Who fair and that means one conversation.
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  This whole thing could be over. And we've we've kicked out all
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  the duplicates now, so we've only got 1 collection between
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  us. That's how solid this
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  relationship supposedly is. So we do ever separate that.
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  That collection's got to be split in half.
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  So I'm such a fan that when you said we've kicked out all the
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  duplicates, I thought you meant like Dalek agents the.
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  We're not doing Asylum of the Daleks today.
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  Well, let's let's circle round to Peter Capaldi and the 12th
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  Doctor, because I gleam from our messages that you're quite keen.
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  I'm yeah, I'm a big, big fan. I think Capaldi's the probably
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  my favorite new series Doctor I I'm aware of how he might have
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  been badly handled to begin to begin with, but overall, my
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  favorite TARDIS team is Capaldi and Jenna Louise Coleman.
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  I I'm going to confess something to you.
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  My two favorite incarnations of the Doctor, and they're season
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  specific as well, are Season 22 Colin and Series 8 Capaldi.
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  So I've got a feeling I just like the Doctor being a total
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  cunt. Yeah, I get this horrible in
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  both seasons. Yeah, there's degrees of it.
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  But I think if anything, kill, Kill the Moon for me was the
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  point where the series settled a bit.
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  And even though his Doctor is, you know, kinder and gentler
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  and, you know, softened from here on, this feels, this story
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  kind of feels like the benchmark.
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  Because even though it's got a Doctor that's been very
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  controversial and difficult, it's still, it's still not.
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  We're moving away from Malcolm Tucker in Space, which seems to
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  be in the brief when they first started.
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  I should have just gone the whole hog and Adam swearing
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  because he basically was like character, right?
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  Yeah, and you're right in this episode it is probably his most
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  asshole move of many asshole moves that he makes in series 8.
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  But we'll we'll get there, talk about that.
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  Can I very quickly ask you again?
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  Because this is a not we perspective and that's quite
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  interesting on Kapowi. How does your girlfriend find
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  12? No, she likes him, but she she
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  raised a really interesting point which was when we watched
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  the caretaker she she found it odd that he was, that the Doctor
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  was so had such a strong dislike of Danny Pink because it implied
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  that Matt Smith was fancied Clara.
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  As in she she was reading into it that the Doctor only wanted
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  her to go out with someone who looked like he did.
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  But anything else, any other guy like Danny Pink implies that it
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  actually was a romantic relationship.
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  And so it's got this. He's being oddly territorial, so
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  he did have proper feelings for her, which I've never heard that
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  mentioned, so. That's why it's so interesting
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  to watch with a non fan. You know, they they they don't
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  come with any preconceptions either.
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  So they're always find their opinions so a lot more
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  interesting. Oh, sorry bloody your opinions
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  won't be interesting today, I'm sure.
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  Because that fella in the caretaker that looks like Matt
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  Smith, isn't it? There's another teacher.
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  Yeah. She doesn't like Danny Pink.
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  No, he doesn't like Danny Pink. Well, I can understand that
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  entirely, no. No, no.
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  She's like I'm with Danny Pink and was very devastated when he
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  died. Because another big thing is, is
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  that I get emotional and cry at Doctor Who and she doesn't at
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  all. Because she's like, I can't, I
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  can't get upset about this because anyone who dies, we're
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  going to see them again or we're going to go back in time and see
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  them or they're going to get saved and it's going to get
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  undone with Danny Pinkett through her.
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  Because she said, well, we've seen his, his his ancestor, his
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  future. Yeah.
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  Future ancestor in listen So she was absolutely mind blown that
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  they killed him. Actually, I've I've got another
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  question I'm asking. I promise you we'll we'll press
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  play in a second, but what are the most emotional moments in
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  Doctor Who then? What hit you the most?
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  Too too many. Probably.
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  The end of This gets Me Fabulous Heaven Sent Gev Gets me.
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  Obviously The Day of the Doctor gets me quite a bit.
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  The the scene in the Barn and the scene in the in the prison
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  cell. In Day of the Doctor, they
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  always get me and it's generally, it's generally sad
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  moments where the show feels like it's the exact same
• 12:29
  character from 40 years prior. I got it.
• 12:33
  It's kind of quite slightly haunting, sad moments where you
• 12:36
  go you're like you're feeling for the Doctor, but you're under
• 12:41
  no pretence that it's the same character that, say, Tom Baker
• 12:45
  was playing. I didn't let those get me.
• 12:48
  And that's interesting that you cherry picked all moments from
• 12:51
  Moffett's time, because I've always found I'm emotionally
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  disconnected from that era in a way that Rusty Davis makes me
• 12:58
  blow up every other episode then I you know, I like, I like a
• 13:01
  soap opera, so I'm cherry made for that era.
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  You know, the man at high camper melodrama of series one to four,
• 13:09
  Chipnall's type? It's all a bit too subtle,
• 13:10
  probably, for the pair of us. Yeah, I I don't really have many
• 13:16
  issues with Chipnall's time, but it never really moved me enough.
• 13:21
  Power of the doctor obviously. But there was it'd be pretty
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  hard to not make a fan emotional when you bring back all those
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  elements Russell T Davis scripts have made me you know that they
• 13:37
  did used to make me cry. Not so the the new stuff not so
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  much. If anything the only thing that
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  got me was probably Bernard Cribbins his his cameo.
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  But I think yeah Steven Moffat for for all of the flaws I'm
• 13:56
  aware of probably is my ideal writer slash showrunner.
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  But I'm aware that he rubs people up the wrong way.
• 14:06
  I don't know who you're talking about.
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  Well, let's skip into Kill the Moon, because there's going to
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  be a lot to talk about here. I'm going to count as in if
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  you're ready. Yeah.
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  In 54321 off we go and straight away with a hugely dramatic
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  opening. Moon 2049.
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  That's really not that far away. I just did Waters and Mars the
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  other day and that was sort of about 20-30 years away as well.
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  I I quite like these, sort of it's a bit like the moon base
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  and things like that back in the 60s, isn't it?
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  It's near enough that you can reach it.
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  Yeah, well, isn't the Hungry Earth is set like 2020, so we've
• 14:53
  already passed it. I'll.
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  Try and forget that that story exists, though.
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  You know, though, most of us do. OK.
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  So I'd like to get Courtney out of the way very quickly, if we
• 15:05
  may, please. Yes.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Nicholas Courtney. Courtney Woods, Everybody's
• 15:12
  favorite pseudo companion? Yeah, two episodes, right?
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  This and caretaker. Yes.
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  Yeah. Is that heroic?
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  That and this. Yeah, well, it's not really a
• 15:22
  hark. It's more of like a.
• 15:24
  It's just a line that goes. Triangle.
• 15:28
  It's a line, yeah. I don't know I I have don't mind
• 15:34
  Courtney at all. I mean I kind of like that
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  they've I I like the school setting for this series and I
• 15:42
  like that they don't glamorise it and that it's.
• 15:45
  I mean, I mean, the oddest thing about this is that it's, it's it
• 15:49
  looks like a state school, but it's meant to be in Shoreditch.
• 15:52
  I don't know of any schools in Shoreditch.
• 15:54
  It's just land of like tech startups and like bougie fashion
• 15:59
  agencies. Well, surely it's supposed to be
• 16:01
  that school from? It's Cohil, isn't it?
• 16:03
  It's the. It is, but it's the idea that
• 16:05
  it's in Shoreditch is just blows my mind because Shoreditch is
• 16:08
  such a desert of anything that isn't overpriced coffee and art
• 16:11
  galleries and stuff like that. But.
• 16:14
  I just think it's it's a gorgeous idea.
• 16:16
  When I first heard about the 12th Doctor and Clara and Danny,
• 16:20
  both school teachers, and it's called school, I thought, well,
• 16:23
  OK, we're leaning into season one again where it didn't really
• 16:27
  go down that path, did that? Because Danny never really
• 16:29
  stepped foot in. No, no.
• 16:32
  But I like, I like that. I The thing is, I buy Courtney
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  as a school kid, as in she's kind of like annoying.
• 16:41
  She's annoying. She's annoying but an aggressive
• 16:44
  she's not. She's not like a Hogwarts style
• 16:47
  polished, you know, prep school kids, as in, you feel like she's
• 16:52
  going to like, leave a crisp packet in the TARDIS and scroll
• 16:54
  on it, scroll on it with a marker pen.
• 16:57
  So I quite like that. Well, later on in this one,
• 16:59
  she's on TikTok or something, isn't she?
• 17:01
  She's She's like in the TARDIS, beaming straight on social
• 17:04
  media. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:06
  So I I mean, I yeah, I I don't mind her.
• 17:09
  And I think you you raise the point.
• 17:12
  Does she need to be here? But I think it kind of.
• 17:16
  It makes Clara more vulnerable, the fact that she's responsible
• 17:21
  for this kid and so the jeopardy.
• 17:25
  And I also like the fact that later the Doctor refers to not
• 17:28
  even knowing how old she is. Which?
• 17:31
  Are you 30? Yeah, yeah, I quite like that.
• 17:34
  Because it's it. It continually makes Clara the
• 17:38
  the the figure of responsibility, whether she
• 17:41
  wants it or not. Which is very different from the
• 17:43
  Clara of season 7B with Matt Smith, where they were just
• 17:47
  basically just dashing about the universe having a laugh.
• 17:51
  Yes, yeah. Yeah.
• 17:53
  We didn't watch many episodes from that bit of it because.
• 17:56
  I can see why. Yeah, it just it.
• 17:59
  None of it quite Lam, None of it quite Lambs.
• 18:02
  Which is odd because at different times I love Matt
• 18:05
  Smith and I love Jenna Coleman. But them together in that
• 18:08
  series, it's oddly it just doesn't really gel.
• 18:12
  It's all the bits where he's looking up her skirt and things
• 18:15
  and I'm like, what are we doing? What is this?
• 18:17
  Yes, yeah. Yeah.
• 18:19
  So when Capaldi came along, obviously that had to stop
• 18:22
  because that would be very inappropriate.
• 18:25
  Yeah, it's it's, it's that the most noticeable thing of doing
• 18:30
  this re watch is how odd it is that Matt Smith in series 5, his
• 18:34
  character is so asexual and bizarrely becomes more laddish
• 18:41
  and more kind of pervy do. You know what I think it is,
• 18:45
  though? I think it's the show becomes a
• 18:46
  hit in America, Yeah. And I think he, he's, he's
• 18:51
  bringing that sort of laddishness to the part from
• 18:53
  that point on, from The Impossible Astronaut onwards.
• 18:56
  It's a bit. I find it a bit awkward.
• 18:59
  Yeah no that's yeah, I'm not a fan of it because because it's
• 19:03
  it's so well played and and kind of modest and he he he's just
• 19:08
  this kind of shy nerdy kid in Series 5 and I just, I think his
• 19:13
  his performance is just brilliant.
• 19:16
  You remember the beat in the lodger Jack when he's going,
• 19:19
  doing the air kisses. It's so cute.
• 19:21
  I'm like that. That's him.
• 19:23
  There come the end of the he's snogging people left, right and
• 19:27
  centre, you know. Yeah, yeah, So.
• 19:30
  So that's what I was glad when Capaldi came along because
• 19:32
  obviously he's someone that looks like the classic Doctors
• 19:36
  and it immediately takes away any opportunity for kind of, you
• 19:43
  know, just if if you've got an actor like a Matt Smith, it's
• 19:46
  easy how as a a writer you can lean into the fact that you know
• 19:50
  he's a good looking young man. You can't do the same with Peter
• 19:53
  Capaldi, you know, making no, no comments on how he looks
• 19:57
  because. You know what he looks like?
• 19:59
  He looks to me not like a classic series Doctor, a classic
• 20:02
  series villain. Harrison Chase and that sort of
• 20:04
  person, you know, yes. Just we've just met the new
• 20:10
  astronauts of this story. I recently finished reading a
• 20:16
  book, which is I don't read that much science like general
• 20:19
  science fiction, but I read a recent book called In Ascension
• 20:23
  by Martin McGuinness, and it's all about the logistics of
• 20:26
  actually going into space and you have to be so fit and do so
• 20:30
  much exercise to train for this. And then I watched this and I
• 20:33
  was like, who the fuck are these people?
• 20:37
  I mean, it's Hermione Norris. Come on, Yeah.
• 20:39
  But it's as in you, you have to do so much, so like you've got
• 20:44
  to do serious weight training because you lose all your muscle
• 20:46
  mass in space. But then they explain it away
• 20:50
  because they say, well, this is a suicide mission.
• 20:52
  None of them expect to go. We don't have space programs
• 20:55
  anymore, and it's just very Doctor Who that something
• 20:59
  ridiculous appears on screen, but then the line that explains
• 21:02
  it, so it's fine. It is fine and you know what I
• 21:07
  mean. I feel like the two at the back
• 21:09
  here that are walking, they're complete non entities when they
• 21:11
  start dying. I don't miss them at all.
• 21:13
  But Hermione, Norris's character, she does make an
• 21:15
  impact in this episode. I like, I like just like how
• 21:18
  much of A cow she is most throughout most of the episode.
• 21:21
  She doesn't really get a redeeming moment, does she?
• 21:23
  She's horrible throughout the whole thing.
• 21:25
  Yes, yeah. Yeah.
• 21:26
  She's very cynical. Very, yeah.
• 21:29
  Kind of bitter. And she's the one that wants to
• 21:31
  push the button, isn't she? And kill the moon.
• 21:34
  Well it's like she she it's like she knows she's in an adventures
• 21:38
  like a family adventure story and is deliberately being the
• 21:42
  cynical 1 to say just cut the crap.
• 21:47
  Also, I I don't know how they did the moon in this episode.
• 21:50
  I was just about to say, how good does this look?
• 21:53
  It looks like the moon. The moon well.
• 21:56
  No, it's Spain. There's shooting this in Spain
• 21:59
  and they've gone to this sort of it's a bit Planet of Fire rest,
• 22:02
  that sort of quarry, and then they've obviously slapped a
• 22:05
  filter over it to make it look a bit more unearthly.
• 22:08
  Yeah, it looks great. I actually want to say to you,
• 22:11
  recently I've watched Planet of the Spiders for this thing and
• 22:15
  if they'd have put this many fucking cobwebs up, we would
• 22:17
  have been in great shape in Planet and Spiders.
• 22:20
  Yeah. You just know you're in trouble
• 22:22
  the second you walk in somewhere and there's that many cobwebs
• 22:24
  about the place. Yeah, well, it's odd.
• 22:27
  It's. I wonder how many giant spider
• 22:30
  stories there are because we've we've got arachnids in the UK
• 22:35
  and we've got Planet of the Spiders.
• 22:37
  Tell me you love arachnids in the UK.
• 22:39
  So sorry to be a disappointment, but I've got a I've got a big
• 22:44
  point to make here. It's a serious point, I hope
• 22:48
  serious didn't like arachnids in the UK and I'm going to compare
• 22:51
  it to this because here's here's my one big point which you can
• 22:58
  disagree with. But I think the the better the
• 23:01
  budget becomes for Doctor Who, the more it needs to take be
• 23:07
  original with the scripts, because it can do a monster
• 23:11
  movie like any kind of straight to DVD, you know, you know, like
• 23:16
  Sharknado or whatever. It can kind of do those more
• 23:21
  authentically, but as a result it can kind of lose, lose the
• 23:25
  identity of the show more. There's something like Planet of
• 23:28
  the Spiders. They don't have the budget for
• 23:30
  the spiders, so it's actually about these blokes at a
• 23:34
  monastery. It's actually about a bunch of
• 23:36
  middle-aged men who are having midlife crises.
• 23:39
  So practice Buddhism and they end up conjuring up giant
• 23:43
  spiders. It's.
• 23:43
  Scarier than any spider you can imagine.
• 23:45
  Although I think Planet the Spiders does something that this
• 23:48
  and Iraqis in the UK don't come anywhere close to do it.
• 23:52
  And that's so spiders jumping on people's backs, which is such a
• 23:55
  visceral scare, you know? And then and then so for
• 23:59
  something like arachnids in the uki really tuned off during that
• 24:03
  because I just thought, I just feel like I'm watching any other
• 24:06
  kind of monster movie that I could watch.
• 24:08
  You know that that that is being made elsewhere whereas kill,
• 24:13
  kill the moon. I think the spiders are such a
• 24:17
  minimal part of this story and there's, you know, you're not
• 24:21
  going to see many stories like this in, you know, elsewhere.
• 24:27
  So I think it does it, it it it it, it takes quite a common
• 24:32
  trape of giant spiders, but weaves it into a much bigger
• 24:35
  story with different layers to it.
• 24:37
  So that's that's all I'm going to say.
• 24:41
  I am going to cancel that point though, because I do think this
• 24:44
  is a good episode and I think it's doing interesting things.
• 24:48
  I don't think it's long enough to tell the story is telling.
• 24:50
  It has to do things very fast, by the bit where Clara reaches
• 24:54
  out for the Earth and they everyone on the Earth makes a
• 24:56
  decision in about 5 seconds, which you know.
• 25:00
  But Joe referendums are really easy.
• 25:02
  We know this. They're really simple,
• 25:04
  uncontroversial things. Why does it feel like I've been
• 25:06
  waiting 5 ice ages for the next one then?
• 25:10
  But I I do think this is very interesting but very worthy and
• 25:15
  that time's a little bit dull, whereas I think Arat is in the
• 25:18
  UK is camp and fun and it's got a bit more energy to it and
• 25:23
  that's just my preference to watch.
• 25:25
  Yeah, yeah. No, no, that isn't.
• 25:27
  Yeah, my preference is the other way.
• 25:30
  And that's what's great about Doctor, is it?
• 25:32
  Caters for all of us. Yeah, but I I would be totally
• 25:36
  open to seeing an extended edit which is full of cuts to people
• 25:40
  in their houses arguing about whether to keep the lamp lights
• 25:42
  on or not. Whole family's been torn apart.
• 25:45
  Like pull them on. Turn.
• 25:49
  Them off like well I'm putting the bedside lamp on.
• 25:52
  I'm. Just, you know, this is the
• 25:54
  Mafia era. It's right for that sort of
• 25:56
  situation comedy, isn't it? No, we're making an important
• 26:01
  decision. Turn them off, you know.
• 26:02
  Yeah, I guess I'm I'm a fan of too many ideas than too few.
• 26:09
  That's my preference. And there's no ideas at all.
• 26:11
  It's in the UK, but it is fun. I do think it's quite.
• 26:17
  Fun again. It's one I never rewatched.
• 26:19
  So in a few weeks I might have changed my mind.
• 26:23
  And what I love about the two episodes is Capaldi and Jodie
• 26:26
  Whittaker do exactly the same thing.
• 26:28
  They both stick their head in a massive black hole full of
• 26:31
  spiders and go, oh hello. Regardless of the tone of the
• 26:36
  story, the Doctor is the Doctor. I walked past Jodie Whittaker in
• 26:41
  the street the other day. You never did, Did you?
• 26:44
  Say hello. I It didn't feel right.
• 26:49
  Breeze. No, if it was a different
• 26:53
  context, but it was like it was a really quiet, empty St. and
• 26:56
  she was there with her mate chatting and I've got a really
• 26:59
  good eye for celebrity faces and I clocked her and went, Oh my
• 27:03
  God, it's her. And then just walked on I.
• 27:06
  Would have been all over her. I'd have jumped on her back.
• 27:09
  Yeah, but it was, yeah, it was really bizarre because also it
• 27:14
  was the same Rd. That I've walked down where I've
• 27:17
  seen Kate Lethbridge Stewart. Wow, What's?
• 27:22
  Down that road, there's one Rd. Near massage parlor or
• 27:28
  something. Near Hampstead Heath, where I'm
• 27:30
  just going to camp out and just wait for more, more people to
• 27:33
  come out, I think. That's where they do the phantom
• 27:36
  events. Maybe it's that.
• 27:38
  I mean, I saw Peter Capaldi in a cafe in Crouch End once as well.
• 27:46
  What the hell? How?
• 27:46
  Do you? He was in the I was walking in
• 27:48
  the street and he was in the cafe, so I wasn't just going to
• 27:50
  suddenly go up to the cafe and go just barge in and say hello.
• 27:56
  You admitted to swap positions. You know I need to be where you
• 27:59
  are. You need to be where I am.
• 28:01
  Yeah. The thing is, when I recognize
• 28:02
  these people, I just immediately feel like a serial killer.
• 28:05
  I'm like, I can't go up to these these people.
• 28:08
  I just feel I just feels odd. Well, you don't look like a
• 28:11
  serial killer. Don't worry.
• 28:13
  I know, but I just, I just, if anything, I want to walk past
• 28:15
  them and just do a thumbs up and then that's it.
• 28:19
  Who was that strange man? How scary is this?
• 28:23
  You've got the torch lights flickering.
• 28:25
  There's spiders crawling all over the walls.
• 28:28
  It's good. I mean, it's exciting.
• 28:29
  I mean, very little. Obviously very little of Doctor
• 28:33
  Who scares me because I'm an adult, but spiders don't really
• 28:40
  freak me out. Or me.
• 28:42
  I'm a big fan of the return of the Yoyo.
• 28:44
  I don't know why I I associate yoyos with Doctor Who.
• 28:47
  Probably because of Tom Baker. Yeah, because these these
• 28:52
  spiders, they're not spiders, really, are they?
• 28:54
  They're kind of. CGI spiders.
• 28:57
  You know, the sort of thing you see on Pitch Black and movies
• 28:59
  like that? Yeah, So the thing I never got
• 29:02
  was that Courtney kills him in the spray.
• 29:05
  You don't have spray bottles like that in space, do you?
• 29:08
  If there's gravity is an issue. It looks like a just a normal
• 29:12
  bleach ball doesn't. It it's like silly bank.
• 29:14
  It's like they've taken silly back.
• 29:17
  Also. What I like is that they really
• 29:18
  like this base purely as the Mexicans, just the mex, came
• 29:22
  here and built their Mexican space space.
• 29:25
  It's like Chipnall's India space agency in in dinosaurs in a
• 29:29
  spaceship, you know. But it's it's also specifically
• 29:33
  Mexicans. As in, it's not South Americans.
• 29:36
  It's just Mexicans. I think it's quite nice because
• 29:39
  back in the day, you know, back in the classic series, it was
• 29:41
  always the British space agency, wasn't it?
• 29:43
  You know, Yeah, we achieved everything.
• 29:47
  It's nice to know that other things are going on in the
• 29:49
  world. Can I ask you a question about
• 29:52
  this? I've heard tale or critique that
• 29:56
  this is a story about abortion. Yes.
• 30:02
  Do you think that's the case? I I think it's, if anything
• 30:07
  it's, I think it's too abstract for that.
• 30:13
  Obviously the imagery is that you've got three women, well two
• 30:17
  women and a young girl deciding the fate of an unborn animal.
• 30:22
  But if anything, it's more of a kind of David Attenborough
• 30:25
  natural world kind of thing. If, you know, should we
• 30:28
  interfere with nature or at war? I don't know.
• 30:31
  It's a bit too. It's a bit, you know, I don't
• 30:34
  think any American, you know, conservatives like pro lifers,
• 30:37
  are going to be using this as propaganda.
• 30:41
  But I have heard other podcasts there's bumper Cast, which is
• 30:45
  all women, where they absolutely slated this and gave it that
• 30:49
  reading and it was quite a compelling argument.
• 30:52
  I was. I was like, I'm going to go back
• 30:54
  and watch this and see if I and I still really couldn't see it.
• 30:56
  But then I'm not a woman that's been in that situation, so maybe
• 31:00
  I can't see it that way. Yeah.
• 31:02
  And it's also the consequences aren't the same because it's
• 31:06
  it's that the whole planet is at threat from a mega monster being
• 31:10
  born. It's not quite.
• 31:12
  It's just doesn't translate to the to the nuances of, you know,
• 31:19
  if we're, if we're. Working under the assumption
• 31:22
  then that all this time the moon was an egg, yeah.
• 31:24
  So the moon base from Seeds of Death, you know where the T mat
• 31:27
  operations were from. That's on the on that on an egg
• 31:32
  and the moon base in the moon base.
• 31:35
  Eggman. Or yeah, it was all Eggman so.
• 31:39
  Who says the new series can't throw new light on to the
• 31:44
  classic series? Do you Do you want to know the
• 31:46
  reason why I think this story was such a big hit with me?
• 31:49
  Go on. It's it's because when I was a
• 31:51
  teenager, I used to write fan fiction and put it on the web,
• 31:57
  and one of the stories was about a werewolf, a race of werewolves
• 32:03
  who had a giant werewolf leader that was imprisoned in the moon
• 32:07
  and they were going to blow up the moon to release it.
• 32:11
  So deep down, I was just glad they kind of interpreted that
• 32:16
  and made this. I hate to tell you this, but I
• 32:19
  think Peter Harless has actually raided your RATIC.
• 32:22
  Read that and then written this script.
• 32:26
  So yeah, it just it it it slightly reminded me of some fan
• 32:30
  fiction that I wrote, so I was really happy to see it.
• 32:34
  Same thing with, you know when David Tennant makes that force
• 32:38
  field in the Star Beast? Yeah.
• 32:42
  That reminded me exactly of a bit of fan fiction I wrote as a
• 32:44
  kid, So. It's not slow.
• 32:48
  You're on the same page. Oh well, I really do want to
• 32:56
  talk to you more about the 12th Doctor and Clara and their
• 33:00
  relationship. Which?
• 33:03
  Have been bubbling under for half a season, but explodes at
• 33:07
  the end of this story. What are they trying to do?
• 33:12
  What story they're trying to tell there?
• 33:15
  I or OK, here's another here's another approach.
• 33:20
  Was it wise to have a doctorate and a companion to sort of Chuck
• 33:27
  away that hand in hand and running off to adventures in the
• 33:31
  universe and having two people that are very unsure about each
• 33:35
  other in the TARDIS? I think it makes travelling in
• 33:41
  the TARDIS feel real so they make they make some really
• 33:45
  interesting decisions that I think are seen through.
• 33:47
  So I mean this story is all about the differing moralities
• 33:53
  of you know of 1000 year old Time Lord and a human And and I
• 33:59
  think it's right to do that because it's it we can rely we
• 34:05
  can rely on the Doctor of of being too much of an authority
• 34:08
  figure that his his word is you know law.
• 34:11
  And I think it's good that the show challenges that more
• 34:16
  because because it stops the Doctor being a deity that is
• 34:20
  right on everything. And and what this does is that
• 34:23
  it goes, not only is he right on everything, but when he tries to
• 34:25
  give it to Clara to take the responsibility, it's too much.
• 34:31
  And so that causes a fracture in their relationship.
• 34:35
  And so the result is at the end of this story, she doesn't like,
• 34:37
  she doesn't want to travel with the Doctor.
• 34:40
  But unlike, say, in the 80s when lots of companions didn't want
• 34:43
  to be in the TARDIS but still went by, the next story, the
• 34:49
  mummy on the Orient Express, they they, they deal with it
• 34:52
  really wisely in that it's almost like an addiction that
• 34:55
  they can't stop doing it even if they know it's bad for them,
• 34:58
  like a bit of a toxic relationship.
• 35:01
  And so I love it because there's only so much mileage you can get
• 35:07
  out of the kind of, you know, very happy travel buddies.
• 35:13
  So I mean, I like this, you know, as something that's
• 35:18
  different to what's gone before and what happens again.
• 35:21
  And I totally get why you would when we get to Jodie's tenure, I
• 35:26
  totally get why it's a fairly nice and happy and cooperative
• 35:30
  group aboard the TARDIS. But I like this to me just
• 35:36
  reminds me of the 7th Doctor and Ace, which again was quite an
• 35:40
  intense duo and be could be quite fractious and
• 35:44
  manipulative. But I just like it.
• 35:47
  I just like it a lot. I think this would have worked
• 35:51
  for me as well if it wasn't for one single scene in this season,
• 35:55
  which I think is the pay off for all of this because I had a lot
• 35:58
  of troubles in the first half of the season.
• 36:00
  I'm going, God, you know, it's in that 80s thing again.
• 36:03
  I'm like, why the hell are they travelling together?
• 36:05
  Because they don't like each other half the time.
• 36:08
  And you're right, it's a sort of unhealthy relation.
• 36:10
  But when you get to that bit in dark water after Danny Pink has
• 36:14
  died and he she then throws the keys into that volcano, or we
• 36:20
  think she has, she's betrayed him in a massive way.
• 36:23
  And then he turns around to her and says, do you honestly think
• 36:26
  that you betraying me like that would stop me from helping you
• 36:30
  out and loving you essentially is what he says to her.
• 36:33
  And it's such a great moment. It basically just gels the
• 36:36
  relationship beautifully. But no matter what she does, no
• 36:39
  matter how much she pushes him, he loves her and he'll do
• 36:42
  anything for her. I love that scene.
• 36:44
  I I just think it's one of the most understatedly beautiful
• 36:47
  scenes in the new series. Yeah, And I was surprised how
• 36:52
  much I loved Last Christmas on Bree Watch as well as in their
• 36:57
  their, their final reunion where they agreed to travel together
• 37:00
  is very, very powerful. And it is.
• 37:03
  It is a love story, a kind of dark and strange love story
• 37:08
  between them because they are inseparable as a pair.
• 37:13
  They are, they are a couple in its own strange and unique way.
• 37:17
  I just think they're the best. I think they are.
• 37:21
  I don't think they've been topped as a.
• 37:24
  My my issue there is 9 where I feel like Clara's not needed for
• 37:27
  most of nine until that, until those last three where she's
• 37:30
  given a lot of focus, but before that, she's written out of
• 37:34
  stories. She doesn't appear as whole.
• 37:36
  In one story, she's an evil duplicate.
• 37:38
  In another story, you can tell that Jenna Coleman was supposed
• 37:41
  to leave in last Christmas and they're hastily giving her parts
• 37:44
  in these scripts because she was never supposed to be in any of
• 37:47
  them. And so I feel like the run from
• 37:50
  8 up to last Christmas, that's just great, but it kind of stops
• 37:54
  there for me. And then by the time she goes in
• 37:56
  face the Raven in that interminable sequence, when the
• 37:59
  the Raven goes through and she's making 17 speeches before she
• 38:02
  dies and then comes back again in hell bent, I'm like, well,
• 38:06
  you just go already. Like I'm ready for Bill anyway.
• 38:16
  Anyway, I think we've missed one of my favorite lines in this,
• 38:20
  which is when they killed the spider earlier.
• 38:22
  Capaldi goes look at it. It's the size of a badger.
• 38:27
  The best line in this though, you think, is when he's got that
• 38:30
  maniacal grid on his face and he goes, the moon's an egg, yes,
• 38:34
  yeah. Yeah, yeah, he delivers it so,
• 38:37
  so well. And.
• 38:40
  Whilst I will say Capaldi I think is my favorite actor to
• 38:45
  play the role of the Doctor, there's still in our rewatch.
• 38:50
  We've got up to lie of the land and I know it's a bad story, but
• 38:55
  it's also the first story that I've watched where I've gone,
• 38:59
  wow, Capaldi really isn't in this.
• 39:02
  He's really it's not it. It's not a bad performance, but
• 39:05
  it's the performance of someone who is dead behind the eyes.
• 39:08
  And it's like when I'm when I'm when is this going to be over or
• 39:12
  if you if? You know, I'm reliably informed
• 39:15
  now that he was fired after my husband's A River Song, and he
• 39:21
  was then contractually obliged to come back and do Series 10,
• 39:24
  as was Moffett, because Chippers wasn't ready.
• 39:28
  So he probably was a bit pissed. I thought, well, do you know
• 39:30
  what? You're only getting half a
• 39:31
  performance at me now and I'll take.
• 39:34
  Yeah, but I think it's odd that it showed up at that point,
• 39:37
  because I don't get that same feeling from the other stories.
• 39:43
  Although we missed, we missed a few.
• 39:44
  I don't know. I don't know what he's like,
• 39:46
  not. Not world.
• 39:47
  Enough of time at the Doctor Falls.
• 39:48
  He's absolutely heroic in that one performance.
• 39:52
  One of the best ever. It must be so odd.
• 39:54
  To be essentially fired from ATV show, then allowed back, and
• 39:59
  then suddenly you're working with Matt Lucas.
• 40:01
  Well, it wasn't even allowed back.
• 40:03
  Forced back. No wonder he won't really talk
• 40:05
  about it now. No wonder he he doesn't really
• 40:08
  want anything to do with it. You know, I I think he's been
• 40:12
  more than polite afterwards. Yeah, it's yeah, it's.
• 40:15
  It's such a shame. What?
• 40:18
  And it's baffling, but the BBC did not realise what our
• 40:20
  resource they had in Peter Capaldi playing the Doctor.
• 40:23
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:25
  Crazy. Can I ask you, do you do you
• 40:29
  think the fact that the moon is an egg is the reason why this
• 40:34
  episode came bottom of the DWM Peter Capaldi pole?
• 40:39
  Did it. It was.
• 40:40
  Last, it was last by some margin.
• 40:43
  You mean of all his stories? Of all his stories, this is this
• 40:47
  is easily the most hated Peter Kapori episode.
• 40:50
  I had no idea. Oh, I'm so sorry to inform you
• 40:52
  of that. No.
• 40:54
  But then I feel like we're winning at life because we like
• 40:57
  this. Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 41:00
  I mean, yeah, I love this story. I Surely there are much more
• 41:05
  ridiculous ideas in the show. Well, yeah.
• 41:08
  Have you not seen it in the Forest of the night?
• 41:10
  Yeah, yeah, I think I totally buy the moon's an egg.
• 41:17
  Well. I mean, the TARDIS is a police
• 41:19
  box that's bigger on the inside than now.
• 41:21
  The Doctor is a a being that can transform his body like this
• 41:25
  show is used to dealing with pretty wacky concepts.
• 41:28
  Yeah, but I totally buy the moon's an egg and I speak that
• 41:30
  as as say that as someone who eats a lot of eggs.
• 41:34
  So and then that qualifies me. You could be in a moon a day and
• 41:39
  not even know about it. I like a bacon and moon
• 41:42
  sandwich. You do what?
• 41:46
  OK, do you think this is a miscalculation on the Doctor's
• 41:50
  part? They're chipping out of the
• 41:51
  story when he does. Or can you see his point of
• 41:58
  view? I don't.
• 42:00
  Well, this is, I can see his point of view, but as in this is
• 42:07
  where I enjoy it because I'm I'm viewing the Doctor as a
• 42:11
  character in any other drama and not as the hero to an adventure
• 42:16
  show. So I like this because even if
• 42:19
  he is making a mistake, I'm kind of glad he's making a mistake.
• 42:24
  As in, he's not being bathed in light like the fires of Pompeii
• 42:29
  and painted to be some kind of deity.
• 42:31
  You know, stuff like that really.
• 42:33
  Like it winds me up the wrong way.
• 42:35
  Oh, I love all that stuff. But then I'm a bit over the top
• 42:37
  myself, so that's how I'd like to enter a room, you know?
• 42:43
  And he was at Mars when he comes in and there's all the blue
• 42:45
  light around him. Yeah, yeah.
• 42:47
  That's sort of how I walk into rooms.
• 42:49
  Yeah, I mean, I was a big fan of the TV show Girls by Lena
• 42:52
  Dunham, and that's fun of people being unlikable.
• 42:54
  So I'm just kind of used. That's what I expect from TV,
• 42:57
  so. I always say that making
• 42:59
  mistakes is what makes people interesting, you know, is the
• 43:01
  mistakes they make. And that's how they learn.
• 43:04
  And it's true of the Doctor. It's true of the show as well.
• 43:07
  When the show makes not not mistakes but, you know, gets it
• 43:10
  wrong, that's yeah, and usually way more interesting to talk
• 43:13
  about, you know? And it's good because this, this
• 43:16
  is the Doctor drawing on his reputation of being, of saying,
• 43:21
  well, I am a Time Lord, I know more than you.
• 43:25
  This is me delegating responsibility and it completely
• 43:30
  misfires in his face. But she's she's standing there
• 43:33
  crying. She's got tears in her eyes and
• 43:36
  she's screaming his name and I think sometimes, you know, read
• 43:39
  the fucking room, all right? Like she's asking for your help.
• 43:44
  Don't just go. Well, you got this.
• 43:46
  Don't worry. This is this is also one of
• 43:49
  those episodes where it still surprises me the the relative
• 43:54
  budget for a single one off story you know in the middle of
• 43:58
  the series. I think it looks pretty damn
• 44:01
  good. I think a lot of it looks really
• 44:03
  good. Yeah.
• 44:05
  They sort of went down dark fantasy route in a, didn't they?
• 44:09
  And they pulled it, a lot of it off what?
• 44:11
  Suddenly the lights were down. So everything's a lot more
• 44:13
  atmospheric than it was in Matt Smith's later years.
• 44:17
  Yeah it's just they make the whole moon and it's just it's
• 44:22
  just kind of there it's it's it's one of those things where
• 44:26
  you you you couldn't believe them doing it in 2005 that this
• 44:31
  would become, this would become you know a mid season episode.
• 44:34
  You would have thought you know this would have been A2 parter
• 44:38
  big big, you know, budget breaking story for the 1st 4 or
• 44:44
  even 5 Series I I reckon. Having recently done The Waters
• 44:49
  of Mars, they very quickly got to a point where they could
• 44:52
  realise that stuff. But it did take 4 four years or
• 44:55
  so. Yeah, but this is better than
• 44:58
  that. Obviously it's it's later on
• 45:00
  than the show gets yet more expensive looking as it goes
• 45:03
  along, as they grapple with the technology.
• 45:07
  Do you know, I think I may have figured out what Courtney's
• 45:08
  doing there. You've got these three three
• 45:10
  women, three very different demographics, all making this
• 45:13
  decision. What I think doesn't land is her
• 45:16
  performance. I don't think she can deliver
• 45:18
  the weight that Jenna Coleman and Hermione Norris are.
• 45:21
  So she just sort of she's her opinion, just feels a bit
• 45:24
  invalid compared to the rest of them.
• 45:26
  Yeah, I mean, it's big. It's big stuff that I think is
• 45:31
  quite hard to act, but I think it does.
• 45:36
  If she wasn't there, it'd be a very different story.
• 45:41
  And if if anything it was, yeah, I'd yeah, I'm glad she's there
• 45:47
  because I think it would be. Maybe the debate would be a bit
• 45:53
  too clear cut because it's just two people arguing.
• 45:57
  I don't know why, but having three people.
• 45:58
  There, a third voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:02
  Whoa. Listen to these bloody podcasts.
• 46:03
  When you have three people on, there's never a consensus.
• 46:07
  You find 3 people that have the same opinion about a Doctor Who
• 46:10
  story. It's rare.
• 46:12
  Yeah, and I like that they've given them different space
• 46:15
  suits, you know, they didn't have to.
• 46:18
  They could have been all in orange, but she's got this big
• 46:21
  grey Duke blow outfit. Oh my Norris.
• 46:26
  Man, what a she's such a cow. She's giving.
• 46:29
  Everyone evils there. I haven't seen her in anything
• 46:31
  else. What?
• 46:31
  What else? Has she got?
• 46:32
  No. She was in that big ITV comedy
• 46:36
  drama. Cold feet, cold feet.
• 46:39
  Yeah, it was much. OK, yeah, I was kind of before
• 46:41
  my time. She was what?
• 46:42
  Oh, I'm sorry. I forget how young you are.
• 46:44
  Well, yeah, well that was a big drama at the time and she was
• 46:48
  like one of six in that show that was quite big.
• 46:51
  I've she sort of does bit parts like this now.
• 46:55
  This extra in NASA is pretty good.
• 46:59
  I noticed this is he's just he's got a very small job to do but
• 47:04
  it just struck out as pretty clever and I've got.
• 47:08
  One scene, I'm going to make it count all right.
• 47:12
  You just you have to go. How are things on earth?
• 47:14
  He goes pretty bad and he looks off camera as though, like
• 47:18
  everybody's dead. No one gave you that stage
• 47:21
  direction. Please let me have a bit of
• 47:23
  business please. Yeah, it's like everybody's
• 47:25
  died, but he's not allowed to tell them.
• 47:27
  So he goes, yeah, pretty bad, yeah.
• 47:33
  And I think that. This is a bit I wish was played
• 47:35
  out over a bit more time, she just said to everybody on the
• 47:38
  earth. Right Let us know, is he turn,
• 47:40
  turn off your lights or turn them on?
• 47:41
  No, just turn them on in it so they can see him, Yeah.
• 47:45
  Because The thing is, it wouldn't work.
• 47:47
  It would. It would.
• 47:49
  Whoever's in charge of the power grid is the guy that has the
• 47:52
  vote. So whoever's in, you know,
• 47:54
  whoever's actually manning the the, the electricity board for
• 47:57
  each country there, who votes? It's not people in their in
• 48:00
  their houses voting. It's Jack Robertson from Iraq.
• 48:04
  He's in the UK. Fuck the moon, he's not a poor.
• 48:06
  Believer. Turned all the lights off.
• 48:09
  Really, they should say, like some people be asleep.
• 48:11
  Right. Yeah, people would be asleep.
• 48:14
  They'd be like, wake up, wake up.
• 48:16
  What's going on? We've got to turn our lights on.
• 48:18
  Imagine the rails in the morning.
• 48:20
  Excuse me, England was sleeping, OK?
• 48:24
  Well, it's like, do you remember when people like bang the pots
• 48:26
  and pans for the NHS? They'd be like, do you remember
• 48:28
  when we had to turn our lights on and off to save save the
• 48:31
  beer? Yeah.
• 48:35
  Oh good God, I loved all of that.
• 48:37
  It's slow motion running through the corridors, sparks flying.
• 48:41
  Great stuff. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's
• 48:45
  all because it doesn't, I guess, because there actually isn't a
• 48:48
  big action ending to this story. So I guess they have to put
• 48:52
  small things in there like this to make it more interesting
• 48:55
  because it is just them waiting. What what I think would probably
• 49:01
  give this more weight would be if they had had to make this
• 49:04
  decision themselves for everybody.
• 49:06
  I suppose you're in a bit in the You remember the Cold Blood
• 49:09
  episode where Amy Pond and that woman from Goodness Gracious Me
• 49:13
  are deciding whether human race and the Silurians are going to
• 49:16
  have a future together. And as if the rest of the human
• 49:20
  race are going to go by their word.
• 49:21
  You know, that's the problem with that scenario is free
• 49:24
  people can't really have to say for everybody.
• 49:27
  Yeah, also the The thing is the consequence of what's happening
• 49:32
  and what does happen is that people are suffering on Earth,
• 49:35
  but we don't see it. So, so all of the consequence of
• 49:38
  what's happening isn't seen. You know, we the astronauts get
• 49:42
  eaten by spiders, but that's their own fault because they
• 49:45
  went to the moon, whereas all the kind of flooding and tidal
• 49:50
  issues that they're having are, you know, all those casualties
• 49:57
  we don't see. Peter Harness did claim that the
• 50:00
  abortion thing, you know, it never was part of this story and
• 50:03
  he it never entered his mind. But he did put the word aborted
• 50:07
  into the climax. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I totally
• 50:11
  get that, yeah, he said. He had no idea what was going
• 50:13
  on, you know? What people?
• 50:15
  You know what people are going to the TARDIS, right?
• 50:18
  And you think, or maybe they'll be a companion.
• 50:20
  I have no question in my mind that Hermione Norris was never
• 50:24
  going to be a companion. Yeah.
• 50:26
  Even though she was. In the target, every story she
• 50:28
  just turns up and goes, oh, just kill it, just kill it.
• 50:32
  But those are the good guys who just kill them.
• 50:33
  Just kill. Basically, it'll be like I've
• 50:34
  been missing at the Tardis, wouldn't it?
• 50:36
  You know, we did. Wasn't it great Now?
• 50:40
  Yes. Can you make split your well?
• 50:42
  Go on, go on. So this is the only bit of the
• 50:45
  story that I actually don't like when?
• 50:47
  There's another egg. So do you know what if if they
• 50:52
  had put in an effect shot of this thing laying an egg, I'd be
• 50:57
  fine with it. But also, how did how does this
• 51:00
  little? I mean, it doesn't even look
• 51:01
  like a dragon in that scene. It just looks like a little kind
• 51:03
  of. It looks like a sea monkey.
• 51:06
  How is an egg a mood? How is an egg coming out of that
• 51:09
  thing? Well.
• 51:10
  The trouble is, is it's laid an egg larger than the egg it was
• 51:14
  housed inside. How is that even possible?
• 51:21
  Oh. Is this camber sands that
• 51:23
  they're down at because? Nah, that's quite near me.
• 51:25
  Camber sands. No, they're saying Cardiff.
• 51:27
  Surely it's just, you know, off the coast of Wales?
• 51:32
  Yeah, I went there just over a year ago and because they, they
• 51:38
  shot the ultimate foe there, I think, yeah.
• 51:42
  Didn't they shoot? I think they shot the chase
• 51:44
  there as well. You know when Ian and Vicki are
• 51:45
  going over the sand dunes? Yeah, but that doesn't count
• 51:48
  because it's not recognisable like 60s.
• 51:50
  TV is so muddy and unclear and in black and white that it's
• 51:54
  like it's easy. I can visualise the ultimate pho
• 51:57
  being there, but a Hartnell? Hartnell looks fake, even when
• 52:01
  it's actually on location. Crazy, isn't it?
• 52:04
  Did you fall down a quicksand pit?
• 52:07
  You know, load of hands pop up out of the sand.
• 52:09
  No, but I wanted to. I bet you did.
• 52:13
  Yeah. I wonder where this.
• 52:14
  I'd like to see you try to explain that to your girlfriend.
• 52:17
  What are you doing? No.
• 52:20
  Crush them on your face. Oh, dear.
• 52:25
  Oh, we go now for the Pierce the resistance in the second.
• 52:28
  Halfway this last scene. Well, not quite.
• 52:30
  Last scene. Well, that's another thing I
• 52:33
  love about this is obviously it's all been about the moon
• 52:37
  being an egg and all of that. The dilemma actually, what the
• 52:40
  whole episode has been about has been getting them to this point
• 52:45
  and the pay off is incredible. I think Jenna Coleman in this
• 52:48
  scene, her sort of restrained anger, like fury, is just
• 52:54
  magnificent. Well, this is what I enjoy is
• 52:57
  that this, this is the finale, the scene of them in the TARDIS,
• 53:01
  which is very, very rare because you get so many stories where
• 53:04
  there's, you know, the the adventure is done and there's,
• 53:09
  you know, some filler dialogue near outside the TARDIS or in
• 53:12
  the TARDIS at the end. Whereas you know this, this
• 53:18
  forget the moon stuff. This is the end of the story and
• 53:21
  this is where everything comes to a head.
• 53:24
  She wants to say fucking. I know she says Bloody, but the
• 53:28
  the script was so to be able to say get in your fucking TARDIS
• 53:30
  and go, you know, but she can't say it because we are pretty
• 53:34
  watershed. Yeah, and I also love that it's
• 53:37
  happening in one of the best TARDIS sets.
• 53:41
  Oh, it's gorgeous, isn't it? Yeah.
• 53:43
  Oh, love this look. Come on, Courtney.
• 53:44
  Get out of the TARDIS. I've got to lay into the Doctor.
• 53:47
  Yeah. Oh, look at her straight away at
• 53:50
  the console. No, we are not going anywhere
• 53:52
  mate. Yeah, I really like just that
• 53:57
  subtle laugh that he makes when he talks about grey areas.
• 54:02
  What? And he he tries.
• 54:03
  He tries to make light of it for as long as possible.
• 54:07
  When he realizes, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to get
• 54:10
  her to laugh. Yes, So he misreads us so badly.
• 54:19
  I mean, if anything, despite the darkness that this series goes
• 54:23
  to between these characters, the darkest point for me is actually
• 54:27
  when he starts punching the console at the end of Death in
• 54:30
  Heaven. Oh yeah, that's.
• 54:32
  That, that for me, that's when I go, oh, is that a bit too far?
• 54:35
  That's when it feels like. Oh, that's that's great for me.
• 54:38
  You know, that's a big crazy melodramatics again, isn't it?
• 54:40
  Slow motion, punching, sparks flying in slow.
• 54:43
  Oh, that's great. Yeah, but as in as in for for
• 54:47
  for a character that doesn't is not known for physical violence,
• 54:50
  it's really odd to see him punching the, you know, the
• 54:53
  TARDIS, which is essentially another another character in the
• 54:57
  series. I do love that whole Danny
• 55:02
  Pink's OK. Oh, I know.
• 55:03
  I found Gallifrey, the two of them lying to each other and
• 55:07
  then Santa Claus going. I'm not having this.
• 55:10
  I'm sorry. We have a better ending than
• 55:12
  this. It's great.
• 55:14
  Stereo gaffer. He's so naughty.
• 55:16
  And. I can, I can.
• 55:18
  I can see why Jenna Louise Coleman stayed, because it's
• 55:21
  they're clearly to incredible actors that clearly enjoy
• 55:25
  working together. So I think, you know, the show
• 55:30
  is very privileged to have had the two of them.
• 55:35
  One of the lies she has here about I didn't feel respected.
• 55:39
  I love that line that you dare love being with the rest of
• 55:42
  those little humans. It's like, it's like she's
• 55:47
  literally punching it around the face with every line.
• 55:50
  Yeah, It's also as in if you're a Doctor Who fan and you've sat
• 55:53
  through so many classic series scenes of characters in the
• 55:58
  TARDIS disagreeing not for any reason, but because they need to
• 56:02
  fill time. Call yourself a Time Lord, Jack.
• 56:05
  A broken clock. It's time better than you to.
• 56:11
  See it done properly Level, isn't it?
• 56:13
  This This to me is the same as suddenly seeing you know, the
• 56:17
  Daleks flying on a budget, you know, with with decent special
• 56:21
  effects. It's the same thing of something
• 56:23
  that has been done terribly many times.
• 56:26
  Before suddenly done properly, if, if Tegan have been written
• 56:31
  that well, if Janet Fielding had been able to play it that well,
• 56:35
  we would have sat for all those interminable TARDIS scenes in
• 56:39
  season 19 with, yeah, Glee. Back to school.
• 56:45
  Back to school. This is my life now, these
• 56:49
  horrible kids. Excuse me, we barely touched on
• 56:53
  Danny Pink because he's only just appeared now.
• 56:55
  So now's your chance. Come on.
• 56:57
  I want to hear about him. I know people don't like him,
• 57:00
  but I've never had a problem with him.
• 57:02
  And I really, I actually really like the actor who plays him.
• 57:06
  I think it's slightly, I think it's quite a nice little nuanced
• 57:09
  and fairly realistic. You know, like performance.
• 57:14
  But I don't. I haven't met anyone else that
• 57:16
  likes him. There's a.
• 57:18
  Few, I've heard a few people say they like him.
• 57:21
  You're you're a very sort of niche club, but.
• 57:23
  Yeah, I can't Unsee it as in as in some a lot of things.
• 57:27
  I can go, Oh yeah, I can see what you're saying there.
• 57:29
  But with this I yeah, I just he just ticks the boxes for me.
• 57:35
  I just think he would be the most boring day imaginable.
• 57:39
  He'd be going on about his war stories and the annoying kids at
• 57:45
  school. Yeah, I think he's Joe is making
• 57:49
  up for it in other departments. Well, he's very pretty.
• 57:52
  Yes, I will. I won't deny that.
• 57:53
  Particularly the PE department. When he's in the Santa Claus
• 57:57
  costuming last Christmas, now you are talking.
• 58:00
  Yeah, and he's having a bit of fun with her as well, wouldn't
• 58:02
  he? He's like, I'm not wearing
• 58:03
  anything under this. And I'm like, my God, where was
• 58:06
  he in Series 8, you know? And if any other fans of Danny
• 58:10
  Pink are listening, please get in touch and we'll set up the
• 58:15
  Danny Pink Appreciation Society. I'll be the janitor.
• 58:23
  Don't laugh at me when I say this, all right, because I know
• 58:25
  under any other circumstances a character going home and pouring
• 58:29
  a glass of wine would not be something very adult.
• 58:34
  But for Doctor Who, it is, yeah, yeah.
• 58:37
  To choose to go and then to have a very mature moment with the
• 58:40
  person she loves and then go home and pour a glass of wine.
• 58:43
  And that's basically, we think, the end of her story.
• 58:46
  Yeah, it feels really at all. It is, yeah.
• 58:49
  I mean, if I wrote it, it would have been a line of coke.
• 58:51
  Fair enough. That might have just taken there
• 58:55
  the edge off the the end of this episode.
• 58:57
  Mind if she's there like. Yeah, I I love moments like
• 59:02
  that. Yeah, it does it fit?
• 59:05
  Yeah. It it feels like proper grown up
• 59:07
  Doctor Who, so cheers to that. What I would like to say as well
• 59:11
  is I think this Mummy and the Orient Express and Flatline form
• 59:17
  a trilogy of stories I think are just superb.
• 59:20
  And for me to find three episodes on the bounce in the
• 59:24
  Stephen Moffitt era that I say are superb is rare.
• 59:28
  Indeed, yeah. The Amen.
• 59:30
  I think they're great. Absolutely great.
• 59:34
  I was never Mummy on the Orient Express kind of passed me by,
• 59:37
  and I think it's because I hated Murray Gold's score for when the
• 59:42
  Mummy appears. I think it took.
• 59:44
  I don't remember it. It's very bombastic and over the
• 59:48
  top and I think it's clear that they've got a very scary
• 59:52
  prosthetic and they're adding the music to make it less scary
• 59:56
  because if if you strip the music back it would be even
• 1:00:00
  scarier. So I think they're actually
• 1:00:01
  trying to soften. How grotesque it is, But the
• 1:00:05
  actual script itself is great and it's got lots of bits that I
• 1:00:09
  missed. Flatline, I think single handed
• 1:00:11
  because I was out of Doctor Who in series 7B.
• 1:00:14
  Like I'd had enough. It just wasn't for me anymore.
• 1:00:16
  I was watching it, but sort of hate watching it, you know?
• 1:00:19
  And then flatline here. And that was so great, so
• 1:00:23
  creative, so dark. Giving Clara that brilliant
• 1:00:27
  role, shrinking the TARDIS, his hand coming out on the
• 1:00:32
  everything about it was just amazing.
• 1:00:33
  I was like if the show can still deliver this, I mean.
• 1:00:38
  Yeah, yeah, it's it's weird. Doctor Who and I always like it
• 1:00:41
  when it's weird. Well, I'll tell you what else is
• 1:00:44
  weird. Is the last time you came on
• 1:00:46
  this thing. I did not force you to endure
• 1:00:48
  choosing 3 reasons to recommend Questor Alva, but I am going to
• 1:00:52
  make you do it about kill the moon.
• 1:00:54
  OK, Jenna, Jenna, Louise Coleman, Peter Capaldi.
• 1:01:02
  Now you can't just choose actors.
• 1:01:04
  Come on now. No, no.
• 1:01:05
  And the third one is still at bank.
• 1:01:10
  All right. Well, then I'll go for a mighty
• 1:01:12
  Norris because I feel like, well, she's not a likable
• 1:01:14
  character and she's consistent, you know?
• 1:01:17
  Yeah, the spiders. Just because I think they're
• 1:01:21
  great scares. And that that last scene between
• 1:01:25
  the Doctor and Clara, which is one of the most unforgettable
• 1:01:31
  moments between the doctoral companion in the new series by
• 1:01:35
  country mile. Yeah.
• 1:01:37
  And #4. Boiled eggs.
• 1:01:40
  Boiled eggs. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:42
  The fact that you've been eating moons for the last, well, your
• 1:01:44
  entire life. Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  Yeah. And the fact that #5, the fact
• 1:01:50
  that we can accept but the moon is an egg, alongside all the
• 1:01:54
  other absurd concepts that Doctor Who has thrown us.
• 1:01:57
  Yeah, come out of the moon closet as soon as you accept and
• 1:02:00
  it's an egg, you'll have a much happier life.
• 1:02:05
  Another thing I didn't ask you to do on the last commentary is
• 1:02:09
  to let people know where you are online, should they wish to find
• 1:02:13
  you. Yeah, I post on Twitter a little
• 1:02:16
  bit under Jack Who Dat, but really not that much and mostly
• 1:02:22
  about Doctor Who and that's it. Well, that's what people
• 1:02:25
  listening to this I've got to want us breed so.
• 1:02:27
  Yeah, I'm not here just for the eggs.
• 1:02:31
  And I've got another podcast about eggs, which is called No,
• 1:02:34
  it's Not True. What he does have is another
• 1:02:37
  podcast which he says that he doesn't appear in too often.
• 1:02:41
  But actually, I hear you are going to be making more
• 1:02:44
  appearances. I'm making appearances with it,
• 1:02:46
  but it's it's Dylan. It's Dylan's podcast that he
• 1:02:49
  puts all the work into. So I there's no way that I can
• 1:02:51
  still, you know, like he, it's his baby.
• 1:02:55
  But I think I helped out with when it started and now I will.
• 1:02:59
  I will keep going back and we've got stuff recorded and stuff
• 1:03:02
  planned, but it's very much Dylan's baby.
• 1:03:06
  I just turn up and say random shit once in a while, which I
• 1:03:09
  hope I provided the same service here.
• 1:03:12
  But you always do. Jesus, we'll be back in the top
• 1:03:14
  ten again, don't you worry. I mean, I love your brother more
• 1:03:17
  than words can say, but when the two of you are onto off TV, that
• 1:03:22
  is when it is like nectar. It's gorgeous.
• 1:03:25
  Yeah. Well, that's just pretty much
• 1:03:26
  how we talk normally. Oh, really?
• 1:03:29
  We'll just put a microphone in the room.
• 1:03:31
  Then you'll have years worth of content.
• 1:03:33
  Well, it's. That's.
• 1:03:33
  The thing is, having two Doctor Who fans in the family is that
• 1:03:36
  it's it's if we're sat together at family occasions, everyone
• 1:03:42
  else gets annoyed because we just start talking this secret
• 1:03:44
  language and laughing a lot and no one, no one has a fucking
• 1:03:48
  clue what we're talking about. But they know it's Doctor Who,
• 1:03:51
  but they just oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:03:52
  yeah. And they'll go, oh, they're
• 1:03:53
  talking about that thing again. Yeah, they'll get annoyed
• 1:03:56
  because they're like, oh, it's it's they're annoyed because
• 1:03:58
  they know it's we're having a big, big old laugh and nobody
• 1:04:02
  gets it except those who know. Who knows?
• 1:04:10
  Joe knows. I know, yes.
• 1:04:12
  Well, I have conversations with that, with my other half all the
• 1:04:14
  time. And all my friends locally, none
• 1:04:17
  of them are Doctor Who fans. So when me and Mark are talking
• 1:04:19
  about this stuff, I know the look.
• 1:04:21
  The sort of look amongst each other going what on earth?
• 1:04:24
  Yeah, you need some when you yeah, you must need like someone
• 1:04:27
  in the corner doing sign. Yeah, that just that I did did
• 1:04:34
  lose the sign for anyone who can't actually see me right now.
• 1:04:37
  Jack, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:04:40
  A great episode to talk about and lots of interesting things
• 1:04:42
  to say. So thank you for having me.
• 1:04:45
  But hang on. Well, I'm hoping I can entice
• 1:04:49
  you back for a third visit. We'll talk off Mike about that,
• 1:04:53
  but please say you do one more. Yeah, definitely, of course.
• 1:04:57
  Wow. Until next time then.