Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #126: Finding Balance When Caring For Loved Ones: Joel Gets Personal

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Episode #126: Finding Balance When Caring For Loved Ones: Joel Gets Personal · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_00: So watching him go through it, I sum it up as he was like a single parent who was taking care of like an elderly sick parent in living in the house that was not getting better, was only deteriorating.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes these things are uh are a blessing that you don't realize.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: And you look back on them in time and you realize that they they they create um relationships through dependency in your life that would have never happened otherwise.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with Joel Salatin, our favorite farmer.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: And actually, today we have a special guest, uh, Dr.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Donald McCullough, my husband.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: He's here not by choice, by request from listeners.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: We have a listener who sent in an amazing question, one we've never been asked before.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: It's Andrew Keeler.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: And this is his question.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: We're going to dive into this on multiple levels and get Joel and Donnie's input.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: The question is: I really enjoyed your talk and Cena's story and the additional insight that Joel brought to light about his father's change when he was diagnosed with cancer.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, Andrew here is talking about the episodes where Joel and I recorded about my health journey and basically going down the road to near death and fully recovering.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: And Joel talked about his father was diagnosed with cancer and just how it changed everything in his life in a moment.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Andrew continues and he says, I know this may not have much to do with beyond labels, but if you think it would be worth an episode, I think it would be helpful and very guiding to hear about how families or spouses are impacted and ways in which a farm can keep its gears lubricated as best as they can, even when a spouse or somebody in the family who's part of a farm operation is trying to work through the demands of trying to regain and balance their health.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: There may be times, I understand, that a break needs to be taken.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: But when one feels so strongly about the work of regenerative agriculture, it may be hard to know when that break needs to be taken to put all the focus on the health issue at hand.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: My wife has been dealing with a rare cancer for some time, and it's progressed to where the farm work is becoming strained.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Our farm is a CSA farm, and we're getting close to off season, but I'm thinking ahead.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to allow the farm work to take me away from being the support I need for her, even though I see the farm work as therapeutic for me right now.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: So here's the questions What is the balance?
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Cena, would your husband join a podcast and talk about his experience of what his experience was with your health?
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Or can you talk about your experience with your mom's health?
3:00
SPEAKER_00: And then Joel, assuming that your dad was a major helping hand in your farm operation, how were you able to get through his health, his health issues, and manage the farm?
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Now these are great questions from Andrew.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Brings up a lot of uh emotional um issues for me.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Um I do want to say um out the gate that I think this question applies not just to people who are farmers, but this question applies to anybody who is taking care of somebody who has a health condition.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: It may be a spouse, it may be a child.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: As you know, we're seeing increasing rates of childhood, um, chronic and autoimmune conditions.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So this is applicable also if you're just having anybody in your family who is sick.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, there is the the responsibility, the mental, the emotional stress that is placed on those caregivers.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: It all can be very similar.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: So we want to uh basically address an umbrella of an audience here.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm gonna start off by asking Donnie the first question from Andrew.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: When you when I was really sick and you know couldn't get off the floor, you know, we had two children at that time.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: You were working um not in the house, right?
4:16
SPEAKER_00: You had to leave for the office.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: How were you actually impacted by my alien health situation?
4:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, first uh thanks for having me.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: I do notice it's the first time you've invited me now that y'all went to the premium thing last year.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: You used to have me on when it was the free B uh YouTube thing a couple of times.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, thanks for having me on now.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: Um, that that's a good question.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: And it's funny.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: I had kind of blocked a lot of it out.
4:43
SPEAKER_03: And Cena, you and I had to talk about it the past couple of days because I didn't remember a lot of it, but going through it.
4:50
SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, it was there was an impact.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: Like I definitely had to prioritize things in my life differently.
4:59
SPEAKER_03: Now, with your situation, it wasn't like you were fine one day and got in a car accident and suddenly debilitated the next day.
5:07
SPEAKER_03: It was kind of this slow progression over the course of years.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: And so to some degree, my involvement was almost like the proverbial what frog in a pot, you know, boiling, doesn't even quite notice it.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: So it was just like over time, I would have to pick up more and more tasks around the house.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: And so, like, oh, maybe helping with the dishes more, helping with dinner more after coming home, or interacting with the kids more because you needed to lie down.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: Like those kind of things just kind of progressed over time.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: And I had actually forgotten the worst of it.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: Like you were telling me yesterday, or you were helping remind me yesterday that, like, when you were at probably rock bottom, I mean, I got up, I made breakfast for myself, everyone else.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: You would be sitting on the couch before I went to work.
5:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, I get ready for work, but before I went for work, I'd like set out food next to you, food for the kids, like help them get set on a TV or whatnot, because you weren't actually even able to like click the channel for them, or it was hard for you to be able to do that.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: And then when I got home, it would be like come home and like, okay, let me pick up whatever mess is going on with you know everyone who had been there, let me get dinner taken care of and all that.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: So it was a lot of time commitment, and it was a lot of like extra effort, or I guess that I'd have to put in compared to what I do now, compared to what I do now now that now that you you're healthier and whatnot, and and able to help out.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now I'm the energizer bunny that we can't keep up with.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: And until the sun goes down, and then you're then you're then you're asleep.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: But then he gets his alone, quiet time.
6:48
SPEAKER_03: I mean, so real, really the biggest impact was, yeah, I mean, it required extra effort, right?
6:54
SPEAKER_03: And and and more work, maybe picking up what someone called a slack that would, you know, come up and stuff.
7:01
SPEAKER_03: So it'd be like, yeah, I worked at an office and came home, and then all of a sudden I was having to do things like pick up for stuff that happened at three o'clock in the afternoon when I wasn't even there.
7:10
SPEAKER_03: And there were those type of things that um that occurred.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: The other piece I would say was it definitely impacted what I could do outside of the family.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: And I do remember, and I will say that at times this did bother me, right?
7:24
SPEAKER_03: For um there were times where like I had to prioritize coming home, helping out, doing something over something else.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: So at that time, when you were going through sickness, we hadn't changed our diet.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: We weren't buying meat from Joel's, we were all unhealthy, all of us.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: Maybe there's a correlation there or not.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: Like we hadn't we hadn't really got to that level.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I had changed my diet.
7:44
SPEAKER_03: Not really.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: You hadn't officially changed your diet that you had started to.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: You were eating organic, but you hadn't really gotten rid of all grains.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: You had got rid of grains you thought you had that you knew.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was organic, gluten-free.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I'd taken dairy out.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know about the gluten-free labeling lie, so I was still eating some grains.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: I was eating pure junk and sad diet.
8:06
SPEAKER_03: And especially uh anything that anyone offered for free.
8:09
SPEAKER_03: I was all all over all food.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: Sure, I was all over it.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: Could have been anything.
8:14
SPEAKER_03: Free food on the sidewalk.
8:15
SPEAKER_03: It'd have been fun.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, but the times that really annoyed me is like after work, there might have been like a work happy hour or something where the company was paying for food and beer.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: And I used to drink beer.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh you go, I you know, I try to go to those things, and it might start at like maybe we start a little early, like at 4:30 or whatever.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: But like by 5:30, I'd pretty much have to leave and come back home.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: Where everyone else might stay there till seven, enjoying free food and drinks and whatever.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: And but I remember I'd want to stay, but I'd start getting like a text message or maybe a phone call from her, like, hey, what uh the kids need food or I need some help.
8:53
SPEAKER_03: Like, when can you come home?
8:54
SPEAKER_03: And I'd just so you know, then I'd have to come home.
8:58
SPEAKER_03: Those were that type of thing was the most annoying, if you will, right?
9:03
SPEAKER_03: Like that was the time I got the most annoyed.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: To be honest, though, for the rest of it though, I just felt it was more outside of those particular times, and those were few and far in between.
9:14
SPEAKER_03: It was more like I just felt it was my duty, right?
9:18
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't think anything of it.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: It was just like, yeah, that's what I have to do here, you know, help out and whatnot.
9:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I like to sum it up as because I witnessed all of it, of course, and so I had this guilt associated with it because I couldn't do things that I knew were kind of my quote unquote duties as a mother and a wife.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: So watching him go through it, I sum it up as he was like a single parent who was taking care of like an elderly sick parent living in the house that was not getting better, was only deteriorating.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And so that's to me, when I saw him do it, it's like that's the position that my health situation put him in, which was very it was draining.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: Like he's a good sport about it, you know.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: And if you've ever met Donnie, you know, he's very calm, level-headed, and just known to the grind.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: He just does what needs to be done, and that's what he did during the situation with me, but it was taxing.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: So, like as I was reminding him, um, he started drinking caffeine.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, uh, during this time, which he, you know, never drank coffee really before that.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: I picked up drinking coffee, and not only that, I'd go to for those of you who live in Virginia, I'd go to Wawa and pick up one of those giant iced coffees, like the 40 ounce iced coffee, and I pretty much drink that every day.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Dole from a gas station.
10:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's good coffee.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: For those who drink that, Wawa is good coffee.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: He would he would bring it home, and the smell would make me want to vomit.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I could smell like burning plastic in that coffee.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: You have to have it outside.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: But anyhow, yes, that was one of the consequences to tell you how how physically draining it can be to care for somebody for such an extended period of time, is that he not only started drinking caffeine to get through the day to get everything done, but he also would fall asleep at night, like watching his football games.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's something I look back on.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: Like I'd forgotten about uh actually just recently I've been watching a football game and I was like, hey, I never don't fall asleep anymore.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: What happened?
11:36
SPEAKER_03: I used to fall asleep watching a game at night, like nine o'clock, and wake up at the end of the game.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: And so actually, when she was talking about this, I was like, oh, that makes sense.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: That's what happened.
11:45
SPEAKER_03: I was just so tired by the time it got to like 9:30, 10 o'clock.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: I fell asleep watching a game that I was enjoying.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think it did contribute to him getting sicker.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, he had recurring Lyme.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he had that, you know, he had the gum disease.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, he he started to develop lupus.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so it also contributed to him developing the chronic, quote unquote, chronic autoimmune diseases or conditions.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is not uncommon, right?
12:16
SPEAKER_00: We see this published in the scientific literature where caregivers are they are notorious for having weakened immune systems, decreased ability to recover from acute illnesses, um, even from like cuts.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: If they get a cut, they often will have a decreased ability to heal from the cuts because there is such a um, it's an energetic drain on somebody to be chronically taking care of um another individual, right?
12:42
SPEAKER_00: And he he had to do that with me while taking care of the two littles, our two youngest, and working.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So it was quite taxing.
12:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and the worst part was I had to do other people's dishes, which I absolutely hate doing other people's dishes.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: My own all day long, no problem.
12:59
SPEAKER_03: I hate touching touching dirty dishes, but that's an old thing from a high school job I had.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: I have no interest in cleaning other people's dishes at all.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he had to do a lot.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so before we get into like deeper though, into the next part of the question with Donnie, Joel.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm interested on your farm, as you're, you know, you talked about your dad got that diagnosis of cancer, and overnight, uh it within a matter of hours, you did not recognize him anymore.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: What happened with that?
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, did his health quickly debilitate and or deteriorate?
13:33
SPEAKER_00: And then you weren't he wasn't as helpful on the farm and you had to accommodate for that, or uh you know, please explain.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so of course we were, you know, we were like so many uh partners here on the farm.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: And uh fortunately this uh my d you know, all of our parents have faults just like we do.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: But if there was one thing that he didn't have a fault about, it was um being excited about delegation.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: And so fortunately, uh even uh when he knew at when I was like 14, 15, 16 years old and he knew that I really wanted to farm, he began a a very strategic um successional back-off plan.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: So that uh um even even though I was only about whatever, 27, 28 uh when he uh got this uh cancer diagnosis um and and it completely changed his his his emotion, his demeanor, his everything, um I had already uh by that time I was making all the decisions on the farm.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: And so uh if we were if we were in a typical father-son family relationship, I would not have made any decisions yet.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, it would have I would have basically been uh been a slave to the patriarch who controlled everything.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: And so as we as we talk about this um with the you know, with the the the sidebar of farming on this, um uh my my first uh uh my first uh whatever admonition is this is why a lieutenant is so important.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: And so what I did, but fortunately, um I did not take the brunt of dad's care.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: Mom, mom was healthy and and she definitely took the brunt of his care during that time.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: And it was a it was a you know, it was it took it took um almost four years for him to finally pass.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh he he had he had some some um uh um rebounds, you know, uh up and then and then drop back down and a rebound dropped back down.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: Um I think what we're talking about here in this podcast, uh Cena, is is uh we're talking about when you have a a chronic morbidity.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: We're not talking about somebody with a broken leg or somebody, you know, uh uh, you know, that that that that whatever cut their cut their foot.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about uh a truly almost, I'm putting this in quotes, uh almost hopeless situation where the end is it's just a matter of time.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: And uh and so so for for uh us for sure, mom took the brunt of that.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, we we would we would rotate, we would take turns.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: Fortunately, you know, uh Teresa and I were married by then, and uh, and so we would rotate, you know, uh if somebody had to be somewhere, well you sit with dad, you know, tonight, and or you know, and and and we rotated through.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, but one thing that did for me from the workload was that um two two things.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: One was that Teresa and I, Teresa came my my right hand.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh Daniel wasn't big enough to do stuff yet.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: He was just the little toddler.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: And so she went out with me to hold the light if I had to help deliver a calf.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: She drove the tractor.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: She she learned, I mean, she grew up on a farmer.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: She had three brothers, so she never drove a tractor, you know.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean she had she had to cook the meal.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: So when it came in from the hayfield, everybody had something to eat, right?
17:10
SPEAKER_02: And and so she came here.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: I had to teach her how to drive a tractor and and and uh run the bailer and all that stuff.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: And and uh, you know, looking back on it for us today, uh as difficult as that was, uh we cherish that because it was truly uh I'm gonna get teary here in a minute, but it it was truly um a wonderful thing for us to be that partnered up, if you will, that that partnered up in um because you know, a lot of families don't have the opportunity to be that partnered up in the actual day-to-day work of of the of the household, of the family, of the uh even of the business.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And so um and so we partnered up.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: The other thing that so so it was really it really drove us together as a married couple to spend that much time together doing important, uh, meaningful, meaningful things together.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we we totally relied on each other because dad wasn't there to do it.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: The second thing it did was it drove me to find help.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: And so during that time, I developed a very, very close relationship with a neighbor.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh the really the only neighbor we've ever had ever who uh who didn't think we were crazy.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it didn't mean he did what we did, but he didn't think we were crazy.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: And he he needed help too, because uh his his father-in-law had um was was ill.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: He got uh diabetes and he was one of these, you know, they amputated a toe, then they amputated a foot, and then they amputated it.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: And and so he was going through that while I was going through this with dad.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: And so we kind of hooked up as neighbors.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: He lived um uh goodness a a mile and a half away.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: And he worked in town.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: So he had a town job was trying to farm on the side, and so um so we kind of worked out a schedule and uh and I'm concentrating on hay making because hay season is like you know, that's like the sprint time on a farm.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's nothing like hay season.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: And um and so for example, uh uh Teresa and I, since I was here on the farm, uh we we could bale hay, I could start raking early, we could bale hay and be and and have about four or five wagons loaded, that'd be about four or five hundred bales on wagons.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: We'd push them in the barn, you know, by like 230, 3 o'clock and uh and she'd come in and work on supper.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: I'd I'd run over to the neighbors and uh I could rake for him because he was still at work.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: And when he got home at 4:30 or 4 or 5 o'clock, then he'd jump on the baler and I'd catch bales for him in the evening.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: We would unload that hay in the barn in the evening, and then early in the morning before he went to work, he'd come over here at daybreak.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: We would unload the hay that Teresa and I had made the day before to empty our wagons so that we could repeat that the next day.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: And and uh and that was all directly because dad was ill.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: If dad hadn't been ill, dad and I would have done it, and I would not have the relationship with my wife or the relationship with this neighbor uh uh develop.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And so sorry sometimes sometimes these things are uh are a blessing that you don't realize and you look back on them in time and you realize that they they they create um relationships through dependency in your life that would have never happened otherwise.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: I'll jump in here.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean we were we were kind of sounding negative earlier when we were talking, but there were some things, maybe not quite to that level, Joel, you're talking about on our thing, but I will say there were some things.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: Like I was very close with our boys, and I still am because of that type of thing, right?
21:03
SPEAKER_03: So I had to do a lot of stuff with them to help because you weren't around, or on the weekends, I'd take them to leave the house so you could rest or whatnot.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: So, like I became much closer with the boys than probably a lot of fathers are, right?
21:15
SPEAKER_03: A lot of fathers, especially the ones, Joel, not not the ones on a farm, right?
21:18
SPEAKER_03: The ones who are off at work all the time and everything.
21:21
SPEAKER_03: So, like that was probably a benefit too.
21:24
SPEAKER_03: Another one that for for us, um, again, it's not bailed age, but like because I was around the house more and doing stuff in my hands, I didn't just sit there and dwell on, I gotta do all this extra work.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: It was like, well, what else can I do?
21:38
SPEAKER_03: What other things can I do?
21:40
SPEAKER_03: And like it's during that time that I was able to start up our my alternate business, my side business uh of with Legos actually started off at that point because it was like, oh, I'm around the house while I'm doing dishes.
21:51
SPEAKER_03: What can I start thinking about?
21:52
SPEAKER_03: I start thinking about this, coming up with new uh new ideas, new things to do.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: And that's when I started launching, you know, a side business myself.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: During that time.
22:01
SPEAKER_03: So there were positives that can come out of this type of thing, right?
22:04
SPEAKER_03: If you choose to focus on negative, you will get negative.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: But if you choose to just do it but focus on positive, there are things that can come out of any of these type experiences.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, in our culture today, we we don't we don't promote duty.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: We promote, I'm the center of the universe.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: I've got to be happy, I've got to be satisfied.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: It's all about me.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Um and we've got all this entitlement and victimization and everything going on.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: And um and uh um I can tell you it was a it was a huge um lesson for for me to watch mom's uh duty taking care of dad during those times.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Um it actually created a wonderful platform for Teresa and I, I think as we age, uh we know that we're we're duty bound to each other.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: We might not like cleaning up after each other, okay, but but that's what you do.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, you you do.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: You don't you don't run.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: You don't you you you you embrace it and you do the duty.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Um and and that's just such a such a strong um such a strong thing.
23:17
SPEAKER_03: It's it's in the vows, right?
23:19
SPEAKER_03: Like I don't want to, I don't want to judge, you know, I don't want to judge people.
23:21
SPEAKER_03: Everyone's situation is different and everything like that.
23:24
SPEAKER_03: But to me, it was like the whole in sickness and in health, right?
23:27
SPEAKER_03: You say that when you get married, so like it's not just what everyone's healthy having fun, like there's this part too.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: I know most of us view it way in the future.
23:36
SPEAKER_03: The the sick part is way in the future, but you know, sometimes it comes earlier, right?
23:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: It sure does, and yeah, and it was a positive for me, too.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've talked on the show before about many positives that came out of my own health situation, but one positive that I haven't talked about is with my relationship with Donnie, that for me, it completely changed our relationship, you know, because I came from um I have four parents, right?
24:05
SPEAKER_00: My parents were divorced, and so I had two parents and two step parents.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So divorce was just common.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: I was raised in California.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: Most of my friends, their parents were divorced, so it's just it's a common thing.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it was a concern at some point when I was so sick and just so incapable of like being a wife or being a mom.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: It did cross my mind sometimes like, is he gonna leave me?
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there it's the engineer trying to comfort me.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: The the the stoic, the stoic and the romantic, right?
24:53
SPEAKER_00: So true, like these thoughts pass in your head, you know, and it's hard not to because you know you're you're not able to fulfill your duties, right?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: So, anyhow, it it was really life-changing for me because he stuck by me through all of that.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: And I like without any, he really didn't complain, you know, he really just did what needed to be done and to help me.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And and so for me, it strengthened our relationship because I was like, if he didn't leave me through all of that, he's not going anywhere, like you know, so we're like so we're like completely committed, almost like a renewing of the vows through that whole thing, you know.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, but having said that, another way I want to talk about one more way that actually Donnie helped me as a caregiver that wasn't a physical helping.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: All right, so we've talked a lot about how we're how you have to pick up on physical, you know, slack, right?
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Donnie actually helped me mentally, not just because he was pretty much practically my only support at that time, you know.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: As you know, family had pretty much turned against us, and we didn't really have friends to help us.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: So he not only was my emotional support, um, but he like I credit him with the catalyst for that pivotal moment in my healing journey that shifted everything.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, we Joel and I have talked on the podcast before about the power of perception.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: And it was my perception shift, in my opinion, that really turned it around for me and started me on the road to recovery.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And it was because of Donnie that I actually had that perception shift.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember you talking about being, you know, the victimhood mentality, Joel.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, you when I finally did get the diagnosis, I remember calling Donny on the phone while he was at work and pretty much just breaking down and crying on the phone.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I can barely even say the words.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, What's happened?
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, are the kids okay?
27:05
SPEAKER_00: I was like, they're fine.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: But and I told him, I I remember like through like you know, exacerbating crying, I said, I have a disease.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: And he thought, well, what did you think you had?
27:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, and this is when like I'm laying on the couch, I you know, I can't wrap my hand around the cup, it hurts to breathe.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, What is on?
27:35
SPEAKER_00: But they were just symptoms until I had a label, right?
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And so all of a sudden I got the label and I massively just broke down, yeah, like everything inside me just broke down, and I was like, Oh my gosh, because it's that whole it's the death sentence, you don't heal from those.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: And I remember Donnie said to me, Huh, he said, You must be stronger than the disease, you can't let it own you.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Nothing has changed between the moment before you got that diagnosis to the moment after.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Nothing changed except your perception.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: And so it was those words of being stronger than it, do not let it define you, that I completely then in that moment changed the way I think about quote unquote disease to the point where now you know I don't even think that actual disease exists, it's just an imbalance, and it's all reversible.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: But it was Donnie, kind of in that caregiver emotional support capacity that shifted that entire path for me.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Or I may, I may have just gone down that route and not even been here today.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Right.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: It's good that I'm not so touchy feely, right?
28:42
SPEAKER_03: Because most people wouldn't have just said that too.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: He's bad as I call he wasn't upset or anything.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Well, just duck it up and get past it.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: Like so that this goes back to something how you we had talked about before Cena, you and I had chatted about.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: Like, I and this may be her situation, may be different, Joel, than like the one with your father's, because I never for once thought you weren't gonna get better.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, never.
29:07
SPEAKER_03: I was like, all right, well, she's got some issue going on.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it is.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: We'll figure it out.
29:11
SPEAKER_03: We spent a lot of time trying to figure it out together, both of us researching stuff, found some stuff up.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: I was like, we'll figure it out one day, it'll be fine.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: And so, like, I it never entered my head that she wasn't going to get better.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: So then when she's over there, like, oh, I have this, I'm like, Oh, yeah, of course she got something.
29:29
SPEAKER_03: Now we know what it is.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: Now we can fix it, right?
29:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because before we were like, we don't know what it is, and either any doctor did or anything like that.
29:37
SPEAKER_03: I just I don't know, I just never thought you were not gonna get better.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's that that that's uh that's a wonderful uh uh testimony, uh testimony not only of of faith, but just um you know, encouragement in that um my dad, uh boy, as soon as he as soon as he got the label, uh he was done.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he the death sentence, I'm done, you know, and and um of course, you know, I um I didn't know you back then, Cena.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: In fact, you you were just a you were probably a toddler in little um uh tights doing you know, um playing ballet with the kids um at that time.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: But uh I was a tomboy, so you're a tomboy, okay.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: All right, fair enough.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: Um but but anyway, um uh what I was what I was thinking was that you know everyone who is sick or or uh uh responds differently.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: And uh and a caregiver, um one of the best things a caregiver can do is that emotional support to provide hope and and encouragement uh because when you don't feel good day after day after day after day, uh it's a pretty dark tunnel out there.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: And so my encouragement to this uh wonderful fellow who asked the question to us now, and and you can you can read through the question and and and uh appreciate his, you know, he's got a he's got a tunnel here.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh and and his wife, you know, uh, I mean, my you know, my heart breaks for this uh for this kind of thing.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's it's it's it's reality and the the best thing that we can uh we don't want to build him up into some sort of a fantasy and you know and and uh paint something that's not at all uh whatever realistic or possible.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: But um, but as caregiver, some of the best you can do uh more than the actual physical is just be the you know, be the rock, be the uh the encouragement and and the encourager for.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Now the second part of that question, Cena, was a balance of life going on.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: I know we're we're we're pushing our time here, and I just wanted to I just wanted to make the point that uh and Donnie brought it up with happy hour.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, you you can't do it all.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't do it all.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: And and and and you you have to you have to not uh be guilty for saying no, for putting boundaries on your own life for the sake of the person you're caring for.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: And if that means you have a year or two where you don't do volunteer work, you don't you're not involved with the the church um you know uh outreach organizations or you know, whatever the civic club you're in, the little league ball game, whatever it is, there are there are times in life when you you just can't you just can't do it.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: And um and and you have to be um solid about creating those boundaries for yourself for your own sanity because because it is a it is a a terribly uh um draining, it's a terribly draining thing day after day after day.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: And and uh and the the other thing is then to cultivate cultivate um uh help uh you know a neighbor, a friend, uh uh, you know, don't listen, people man, get me on a soapbox here.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: How how much there's not a person listening to this podcast that doesn't want to help someone in need.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: But we deprive people of being able to step in and help us because we're too proud to help for something.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: We think it's gonna mess up their life, it's gonna mess up their schedule.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: No, listen, our world is full of people that want to help.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: And so let them enjoy the blessing of helping by reaching out and saying, you know what?
33:53
SPEAKER_02: I I need five hours off here.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: I just need five hours off here.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: Can you step in?
33:58
SPEAKER_02: And and very few people will say no to that.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I echo that sentiment.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: It's having support for yourself, right?
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Having the caregiver actually have some support is so critical so that you don't feel alone.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: And so you have somebody to talk to, and preferably somebody who's gone through it or that might be going through it, you know, simultaneously, so they understand more.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: But regardless, have somebody that you can talk to as a little reprieve for yourself.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, Donny really didn't have that at the time.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I mean, going back to Joel's first part though, I think it really one thing you can do is look at like what are the things you do during your day, your week, whatever that you have to do versus you're just doing out of habit in a way, right?
34:45
SPEAKER_03: Like, let me give you one tangible example from my experience, again, not directly related to a farm, but like I mowed the grass every week, right?
34:53
SPEAKER_03: And I just did it, like every seven days I mowed the grass.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: And it made me step back and be like, why am I mowing it every seven days?
34:59
SPEAKER_03: What if I wait eight days, right?
35:01
SPEAKER_03: Instead or nine days instead of every seven days.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: Is anything really affected?
35:05
SPEAKER_03: No, but it does save me over the time, right?
35:07
SPEAKER_03: I get to mow the grass one last time after so many weeks, right?
35:11
SPEAKER_03: It's like looking at those types of things.
35:12
SPEAKER_03: What things am I doing out of habit?
35:14
SPEAKER_03: Or because I was taught that way, but don't really have to be done.
35:18
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm just doing extra work in a way.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: And so it really made you like more efficient, and you really had to start like examining everything you were doing throughout the day to look for those places.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: So we basically streamlined, you know, which is applicable for anybody.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: So like Donnie streamlined a lot when I was sick.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: And then um, even now, with now that we have three kids and we both work in homeschool, we still are striving to streamline consistently.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: So some of the things that we do, we thought we could maybe provide a couple practical tips that may be helpful, um, aside from not mowing every week, just because.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we often will cook two big meals instead of three big meals.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: So two big meals, and then maybe you know, the kids eat a snack in the middle of the day instead of having a full meal.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes I would even cook one big batch of something, you know, like in a huge crock pot, and people could eat off that all day long.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: And if you just throw ingredients in to the crock pot at nighttime and let it do its thing overnight, then you wake up, breakfast is already there, and it's a better, much better breakfast than a typical American breakfast, right?
36:30
SPEAKER_00: Filled with carbs and processed foods and sugars.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: So the food's already there for you, and then people can just eat it throughout the day.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: So that's another way to kind of streamline.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, you may not like all the different all the solutions, but there's always a solution.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: So one way, like Donnie doesn't like to do the dishes.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, if you can't get to all the dishes, you could use disposable plates.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I know that's not environmentally friendly, but you know, there's no judgment.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: You do what you got to do to get through it.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing that we do um and started to do years ago to help out with the streamlining is purchasing things online.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: So that's when I really started going toward um, you know, buying even things from like Miss Fits Market or Imperfect Foods, like to get the produce.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, you can pretty much get almost any food online now.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, Joel, your meat and you know, chicken and eggs, you can buy those online and have it shipped to your door.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's Thrive Market.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: You can buy stuff on Amazon, you know, shop where you want to support.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it really cuts down on your time.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: You're now not going out and having to procure all of your different foods.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: It's coming to your doorstep and then you can batch cook it, and that streamlines a lot.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: So it's just another helpful tip to go through the schedule and see where are you spending your time?
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And can you think of these creative ways to kind of cut back on it or eliminate some things altogether that you're just doing because that's just you know what you were taught to do.
37:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, give Joel a shameless bug.
37:59
SPEAKER_03: We just recently bought what two of your 50-pound sausage bundles and had them mailed to the house.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: So I stocked my freezer with 100 pounds of sausage, strips to a grocery store, right?
38:08
SPEAKER_03: That kind of stuff.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: I guess reducing those number of errands and all that time and being like, well, you know, maybe in the old days I'd have been like, well, I'm hungry for a pizza tonight, so I'm gonna run to the store and get the ingredients to make it.
38:21
SPEAKER_03: No, you wait till your weekly one run.
38:24
SPEAKER_03: If you don't have it, you eat something else, right?
38:26
SPEAKER_03: And those type of things.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: But those type of things save time and effort.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: And and even in your even in your house, um, you know, if you can, if you can like reposition a bed, a bed, for example, so it's closer to a to the to the bathroom, you know, just it it's amazing what just some little things like that um can do to to facilitate that care, you know, in-house um to to make that streamlined as well.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: And and I I would I would just admonish um uh anyone here in this kind of situation, man, um start thinking about lieutenants.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: The problem is, you know, we don't think about lieutenants early enough.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: What I mean is delegation.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: I like to call them lieutenants.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Um but but we we don't think about lieutenants early enough.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: And and man, um uh putting attention on that now, start delegating, start, start um good.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: If if you're sitting with a as a caregiver, uh put some time.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean I'm thinking now specifically of a farmer here, but a business person.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Um take that time.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh Donnie said he did a side hustle.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe you need to take that time to do some SOPs.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you've been putting off making some written uh standard operating procedures.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: So, so so take some of that time you're sitting there, um uh do some SOPs so that you so that you can easily delegate someone um and create clear expectations for them to be able to take some weight off of your shoulders.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: And I'll add, sometimes the help comes from maybe areas or people that we wouldn't have necessarily thought to ask, like our children.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: So I know our kids, you know, I took the time to teach them about food and how to cook, and you know, they cook in the kitchen with us all the time.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: And so um, when I when I was sick at one point, the kids actually stepped in, and our oldest kid was helping to cook in the kitchen and was like showing Donnie, oh, this is how you steam the broccoli in the thing, you know, because Donnie doesn't eat vegetables.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: So Hunter was in the kitchen and I could hear him from downstairs, and he was like, You put it in here, you push the button, put the water in it, you know.
40:38
SPEAKER_03: So like a four-year-old telling me how to cook broccoli.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, taking notes.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: So, you know what I mean?
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Like the whole family.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Talk about strengthening the bonds, you know, the maritime.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: The whole family bonds can be strengthened this way, turning a situation from a perceived negative into actually a positive where everybody flourishes and gets something out of it.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: So they can be assets for you, and in turn, you're an asset for them.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I think we need to, we're we're out of time here, but we we really, it's been a been a fascinating discussion.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, most of us at some time in our life, if we're if we're close at all to family, um, you know, we're gonna have a situation like this, a parent of somebody that we're gonna have to deal with.
41:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, right now we're dealing with mom.
41:27
SPEAKER_02: Right now, she's our new our new project.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: She'll be a hundred in on December 11th, she'll be a hundred years old.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: And uh so Teresa, my wife, is her primary caregiver right now.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: She's over there multiple times a day, lives right right next to us.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're we're trying to keep her out of a home if we can possibly uh do it.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: She, you know, um, but it it it it's it's uh it's you know it keeps us from able to go anywhere together.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: It keeps us a lot of these things, but you know, it's a time of life we're in.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: And um and and and we do it.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: And it won't be, you know, it won't be but so long.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, uh, and so we'll cherish those uh those caring memories uh in the future, I know.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: And and so um it's it's a it's a powerful topic and one profoundly necessary for all of us to to deal with.
42:15
SPEAKER_02: So thank you all for being with us on another Beyond Labels podcast, and we wish you a great week and look forward to visiting with you again next week.