Latest / The Curve / RTC49: One of the biggest frauds in US history - explained in layman terms

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RTC49: One of the biggest frauds in US history - explained in layman terms · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money.
• 0:07
  They are money for the future they want to have.
• 0:10
  We're all busy in the pursuit for financial confidence and increasing your wealth
• 0:14
  should be a simple one.
• 0:16
  This podcast is for women to learn about investing in a non-scary or intimidating way.
• 0:21
  With short episodes, you'll have time to learn, digest and understand
• 0:25
  everything to do with the world of investing.
• 0:28
  So thank you for being here and for listening, because together we really can raise the curve.
• 0:35
  Hey, oh my god.
• 0:38
  Firstly, I'm back in Auckland, which is, I tell you what Tracy, we've got a guest on,
• 0:44
  it's very exciting, we'll get to that in a second, but I flew in from London yesterday.
• 0:47
  If I've been trying to record podcasts in different sides of the world from London to Auckland
• 0:51
  and I tell you what, it has been a full-time job trying to find times that work.
• 0:56
  Yeah, we thought it would be easy, you just plug in the mic, put on some headphones.
• 1:01
  It's absolutely fine, but no, when you have about an hour each day.
• 1:06
  It's basically vicking the morning, it has a coffee, I've got my tea about to go to bed,
• 1:10
  you're just like energetically off, it's been a bit of a nightmare.
• 1:13
  So being in the same room is quite exciting.
• 1:16
  And probably energetically off.
• 1:19
  We've got a guest all the way from Perth and it's really exciting.
• 1:24
  Yes, we do. So I want to preface this episode with, you know, we've done a few crypto episodes
• 1:30
  and probably a while ago now.
• 1:32
  And this is when crypto was going bananas and we had heaps of interest,
• 1:37
  listenership was going nuts.
• 1:39
  It's just because we're such a...
• 1:41
  Because honestly everyone's just saying, oh my god, the caretaker.
• 1:45
  Honestly, these particular episodes were so listened to.
• 1:49
  Like everyone was just gobbling up any kind of crypto.
• 1:52
  And I think it's sort of happening again now with opposite reasons.
• 1:55
  Yes, yeah. And like crypto is an asset you can invest in.
• 1:59
  But it's not an asset that I have a lot of experience investing.
• 2:02
  And we did, so if an I dabble a little bit in investing in crypto,
• 2:06
  safe to say it's probably more than half the value.
• 2:10
  It's not thriving, but I would say.
• 2:12
  We've probably invested at the peak, so don't do it, as we say.
• 2:17
  But we've got a professional on.
• 2:19
  We do help us in the space.
• 2:21
  Because as books said, firstly, not an expert in the crypto,
• 2:24
  but also not a giant fan, I would also say, doesn't love crypto.
• 2:28
  And we've got someone who hosts the number.
• 2:31
  Am I right?
• 2:32
  Say it's a number one crypto podcast in Australia.
• 2:34
  Right, the moment.
• 2:35
  Yeah.
• 2:36
  It's pretty amazing.
• 2:37
  Welcome, welcome, welcome.
• 2:38
  Yes, so Tracy is in Perth at the moment.
• 2:42
  Yes, that's it.
• 2:44
  So Tracy is the founder and the fabulous host of crypto curious,
• 2:49
  which is a great name for a podcast, by the way.
• 2:51
  And it is a great podcast because they break down everything to a crypto,
• 2:55
  which can be such a confusing space that even I try and read on it
• 2:59
  and I still get slightly confused.
• 3:01
  It's almost like the more I read the more confused myself.
• 3:03
  It's not good.
• 3:04
  But yeah, so we really wanted to get her in here to have an expert
• 3:08
  to break down everything that's going on in crypto at the moment
• 3:12
  with FTX and all that drama.
• 3:15
  And if you don't know what FTX is, you will in a minute.
• 3:17
  Yeah, we'll get there in a second.
• 3:18
  But she also wears another hat, which is the majority of the hat,
• 3:22
  she wears.
• 3:23
  And she is the COO of Bamboo.
• 3:27
  Do you want to tell us a bit about Bamboo?
• 3:29
  Because I'll probably butcher it.
• 3:30
  So yes, I will look up.
• 3:32
  Thank you so much.
• 3:33
  Thanks so much for that intro.
• 3:35
  I don't need to say before we go into Bamboo, I need to say,
• 3:39
  you've said expert there.
• 3:40
  Look, five years in the crypto space,
• 3:42
  and I still probably know
• 3:44
  scratching the surface on it.
• 3:46
  Because like you said, it is so confusing
• 3:48
  and there is so much to know.
• 3:50
  So I'm still learning after five years.
• 3:52
  So expert is a strong word.
• 3:54
  But I will definitely try and help you out on some of the topics for sure.
• 3:58
  I think everything changes in the crypto space so often as well.
• 4:01
  It's like you almost have to keep learning and relearning.
• 4:04
  100% 100%.
• 4:07
  Absolutely.
• 4:08
  And they say, you know, a day in crypto is like, you know,
• 4:12
  a month in the real world.
• 4:13
  And that could not be more true.
• 4:15
  Absolutely.
• 4:16
  Everything changes so quickly.
• 4:17
  But are you getting great hairs from we're here in the space?
• 4:19
  You know what?
• 4:20
  This is, yeah, this is definitely a die job there.
• 4:23
  Absolutely.
• 4:24
  And anxiety, galore, absolutely.
• 4:26
  I went to the hairdresser yesterday.
• 4:28
  And he sat down and he looked at my hair and goes,
• 4:31
  oh, so we can either give you a cut in a blow wave.
• 4:35
  We've only got time for a cut in a blow wave or a die in a cut.
• 4:39
  And I was like, is it that bad?
• 4:41
  I said, so I got, I got my hair dyed.
• 4:45
  Really?
• 4:46
  Because there was so many grays.
• 4:48
  I have never dyed my hair once when I was like,
• 4:51
  probably 18, never again.
• 4:53
  Or you should say it.
• 4:55
  It's the funniest photo ever seen.
• 4:57
  I wish, if I got it, I'm.
• 4:59
  What was that?
• 5:00
  It was kind of like a short pixie.
• 5:02
  She looks 45 and she was pretty young.
• 5:05
  It is the funniest thing you've ever seen.
• 5:08
  I did a Rodney Wayne hair modeling thing and they were like,
• 5:10
  they were like, you know what?
• 5:11
  We're going to make you look like Victoria Beckham and I was like,
• 5:13
  gosh, she is.
• 5:14
  Oh my god.
• 5:15
  I had her like long hair and they cut it to her,
• 5:17
  did a blonde fringe.
• 5:19
  And I was like, I don't think that's pretty good.
• 5:21
  No.
• 5:22
  I want to see if it was.
• 5:23
  It was one of the prettiest people I know.
• 5:24
  Oh, it was her perfect.
• 5:25
  The worst look I have ever seen.
• 5:27
  Was this a modeling gig then?
• 5:28
  Was this a modeling gig then?
• 5:29
  I mean, I say modeling.
• 5:30
  But like, they didn't care what I looked like.
• 5:32
  They just wanted to showcase their hair expertise.
• 5:34
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:35
  Our age is crazy.
• 5:36
  And it was.
• 5:37
  You had to look at it.
• 5:38
  Oh my god, you've got it.
• 5:39
  And you had to grow it out.
• 5:40
  You had to grow it out.
• 5:41
  And we dyed the blonde pet at the front.
• 5:44
  And then we'd orange.
• 5:46
  So, yeah, safe to say I was single for a few years.
• 5:49
  I don't feel like I've seen this to you recently.
• 5:52
  Being like, lol, let's never forget this.
• 5:54
  Oh my god.
• 5:55
  I'm going to send you an email after this,
• 5:57
  out with it just because it is so funny.
• 6:00
  Okay, so you've just dyed your hair.
• 6:02
  Well, you know, well, it looks good.
• 6:04
  It looks great.
• 6:05
  The parts looking glorious.
• 6:06
  Well done.
• 6:07
  Gosh.
• 6:08
  Maybe if we just started about your background.
• 6:10
  And how I feel into this wonderful world.
• 6:13
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:14
  I'll give you the abridged version.
• 6:15
  But look, country girl from deep south down here in WA.
• 6:19
  Cattle farmer's daughter who's now in the crypto space.
• 6:22
  So it is a bit of an unusual story.
• 6:24
  I guess by trade, I am a marketer and an operations manager.
• 6:29
  And I've been a lot of different sectors.
• 6:31
  And when I look back, a lot of those sectors
• 6:33
  have been real male driven industries.
• 6:35
  And when I came into crypto,
• 6:37
  that was five years ago this year, actually,
• 6:41
  looking at late 2017 when I came into the industry.
• 6:45
  And came in via a digital fund.
• 6:48
  It was actually one of the first funds in Australia
• 6:52
  that was set up for crypto.
• 6:54
  At the time, very, very few people knew what Bitcoin was.
• 6:59
  So I was just hearing all of these things
• 7:02
  and not understanding any of them.
• 7:03
  And I'm not, I'm not backwards coming forward.
• 7:05
  I'm a bit of a talker.
• 7:06
  So I'm a question asker.
• 7:07
  And I was asking loads of questions,
• 7:09
  getting them explained to me,
• 7:10
  still not understanding and asking more questions.
• 7:13
  I was just thinking about a time on Google.
• 7:15
  Like, what does this mean?
• 7:17
  What does this mean?
• 7:18
  So much time.
• 7:19
  It did fascinate me, though.
• 7:20
  The story of, I think, Bitcoin,
• 7:23
  and where it came from.
• 7:24
  Once I did understand what it was and this whole,
• 7:27
  you know, championing the underdog,
• 7:29
  trying to pick up from that whole global financial crisis
• 7:34
  of 2008 and, you know,
• 7:36
  be the Robin Hood that was going to look after the little people
• 7:40
  and, you know, was born from that.
• 7:43
  Look, there's got to be a better way here.
• 7:45
  There's got to be a better way than these banks.
• 7:47
  And I think Bitcoin, in its inception,
• 7:50
  was a peer-to-peer transfer of cash.
• 7:53
  So it was meant to be taking away that intermediary.
• 7:57
  You know, it was meant to be a way of doing things
• 7:59
  without having banks or the intermediary to do it for you.
• 8:03
  That's Bitcoin.
• 8:04
  And then, obviously, to do that,
• 8:06
  the technology there was the blockchain.
• 8:09
  And then it snowballed, you know,
• 8:11
  from there to where we are here,
• 8:13
  where the blockchain is then used for
• 8:16
  many different things.
• 8:18
  And, you know, Ethereum's come, DeFi's come, you know,
• 8:21
  NFTs have come,
• 8:23
  decentralized, decentralized finance.
• 8:25
  So there's just, it's snowballed into so many different things.
• 8:28
  And I think, you know,
• 8:31
  without being, without kind of going too high level on it all,
• 8:35
  Bitcoin still remains as, there's only 21 million.
• 8:38
  There only will ever be that.
• 8:40
  And it's likened to digital gold.
• 8:43
  You know, and then there's Ethereum which sits there
• 8:46
  as the number two token.
• 8:48
  And it's trying to be this global world computer
• 8:52
  where a lot of other things are being built out.
• 8:55
  It's trying to be decentralized.
• 8:57
  So I think for a set to your early days in the crypto space,
• 9:02
  because obviously you live and breathe crypto.
• 9:04
  This is, you know,
• 9:06
  aside from the podcast,
• 9:07
  you're very entrenched in cryptocurrencies.
• 9:10
  And I'd love to know,
• 9:12
  this is actually one of Vex questions that she wrote,
• 9:14
  but I'd also love to know the answer.
• 9:16
  When did you first dabble in cryptocurrency?
• 9:19
  And also, I would love to know,
• 9:21
  have you got any good stories that were like,
• 9:23
  this was a really good moment that I remember.
• 9:25
  And this was a really shit moment that I remember.
• 9:27
  Like, I would just love to kind of hear your like,
• 9:29
  early look.
• 9:30
  Yeah, look, little embarrassing was because I look,
• 9:35
  I'm a, I like, I like to say no.
• 9:37
  I'm a bit of a gambler.
• 9:38
  So probably a bit more on the risk.
• 9:41
  I'm probably a bit on the risk side.
• 9:43
  Not anymore.
• 9:44
  Probably probably crypto is probably maybe pull away from the gambler
• 9:48
  in myself, to be honest.
• 9:50
  I love this.
• 9:52
  I'll buy the way.
• 9:54
  I love the cast.
• 9:58
  But, you know,
• 10:00
  probably pulled away from that side.
• 10:01
  A bit more risk adverse these days.
• 10:03
  And my portfolio set up to be very, very risk adverse.
• 10:06
  But in the really early days,
• 10:09
  the guys are working, I was working with,
• 10:12
  they had done some really awesome things with these ICOs
• 10:15
  and they had some amazing gains.
• 10:17
  And I said to them,
• 10:19
  one particular coin,
• 10:21
  you know, is it still, is this, is this still going well?
• 10:24
  Should I, should I get some of this particular coin?
• 10:27
  And they were like, do you want to,
• 10:29
  do I get your first pay packet in that coin?
• 10:31
  And I was like,
• 10:32
  can I do that?
• 10:33
  They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:34
  I was like, okay.
• 10:35
  Let's, let's, I'll get my whole, yeah, okay.
• 10:38
  And like these guys, like they were my mates too,
• 10:41
  like I've got to say,
• 10:42
  these guys are incredibly intelligent.
• 10:44
  One of them are called Rayman, incredibly intelligent guys
• 10:47
  who don't really well.
• 10:48
  And what was the second whole month pay?
• 10:50
  A whole month's pay.
• 10:52
  And when I look back, they were, they were teaching me a lesson.
• 10:55
  And I was like, yeah, let's chuck it all.
• 10:57
  Mase will just go, put it on red.
• 10:59
  Just chuck it on there.
• 11:00
  Yeah.
• 11:01
  I was like, okay, let's pop it on.
• 11:03
  And the coin at the time was called datum.
• 11:05
  It had done very well.
• 11:07
  It's now, I don't think it exists anymore.
• 11:09
  It didn't exist not long after I put my whole pay packet on.
• 11:12
  So.
• 11:13
  And this, but this was again,
• 11:16
  really early 18, 2018,
• 11:18
  when everything just, you know,
• 11:20
  so that that was it.
• 11:22
  So I got my first pay packet in a coin called datum.
• 11:25
  And I think it was a bit of an office joke, really,
• 11:28
  because yeah, it just did not do,
• 11:30
  it didn't do really well.
• 11:31
  And these guys,
• 11:33
  well, I said, Todd, what did you let me do that for?
• 11:36
  And he's like, you gotta learn these hard lessons.
• 11:38
  And these are guys who have been entrenched in crypto for a while,
• 11:41
  and traditional banking,
• 11:42
  and you know,
• 11:43
  still work very closely with them now.
• 11:45
  So that was just the point.
• 11:46
  Talk to me about, like,
• 11:47
  look, it was put on.
• 11:48
  Well, this was,
• 11:49
  this was one of it.
• 11:50
  It had reached its highs.
• 11:51
  And, you know,
• 11:52
  but I had just seen it do like 10X.
• 11:54
  And, you know, I was like, okay,
• 11:56
  you know, it'll just keep going.
• 11:58
  But this was the harsh lesson once it's been there.
• 12:00
  That's it.
• 12:01
  Once it's up.
• 12:02
  You know, you're violent.
• 12:03
  It's down like, you know, in theory,
• 12:05
  we should all be, you know,
• 12:07
  it's slowly averaging into crypto now,
• 12:09
  the next six months.
• 12:10
  We're at the bottom of the market because of FTX.
• 12:12
  And all the publicity right now,
• 12:14
  there is negative because FTX.
• 12:16
  I mean, I had money.
• 12:17
  Yeah.
• 12:18
  Yeah.
• 12:19
  There's a lot of people that want to rid the news,
• 12:21
  maybe didn't see what we posted on Instagram.
• 12:23
  So let's just start with an overview of that.
• 12:25
  This is,
• 12:26
  this isn't really a crypto story, though.
• 12:29
  It's really a story about green corruption,
• 12:32
  because fraud.
• 12:33
  Yeah, fraud, greed, corruption,
• 12:35
  and yeah, because this,
• 12:38
  this guy is,
• 12:40
  I, I had money in FTX.
• 12:42
  So he's a scam artist.
• 12:43
  The sky.
• 12:44
  Yeah.
• 12:45
  But I didn't lose money because I got it out in time.
• 12:47
  Okay.
• 12:48
  So he's a scam artist by the name of Sam,
• 12:50
  who ran FTX.
• 12:51
  Yeah.
• 12:52
  My friend called Sam.
• 12:53
  I was a total scam artist.
• 12:54
  There you go.
• 12:55
  Bloody Sam.
• 12:56
  Yeah.
• 12:57
  Bloody Sam.
• 12:58
  Who used crypto as a Mac mechanism,
• 13:00
  basically, to steal billions from ordinary people.
• 13:03
  And, you know, Tom Brady and Chazelle,
• 13:05
  and a bunch of other businesses.
• 13:06
  But, you know, so, yeah.
• 13:08
  He was loved before this all happened.
• 13:11
  He was really beloved by the crypto mainstream media,
• 13:14
  really respected by politicians.
• 13:16
  FTX is a crypto exchange.
• 13:19
  Okay.
• 13:20
  It was the second biggest crypto exchange.
• 13:22
  Binance was the first biggest.
• 13:23
  So it was the first big exchange where you can go
• 13:26
  to buy and sell crypto.
• 13:27
  Okay.
• 13:28
  So I was like, that's where I was.
• 13:29
  That means the news.
• 13:30
  The New Zealand stock exchange.
• 13:31
  Yes.
• 13:32
  So I was stock exchange.
• 13:33
  Exactly.
• 13:34
  And there was, there was, you know,
• 13:35
  thousands of different tokens that you could buy and sell on there.
• 13:37
  So I was at one point doing my,
• 13:38
  my, um, my trading on there.
• 13:40
  So, you know, it was a very,
• 13:41
  very popular exchange.
• 13:42
  And binance is the number one in the world.
• 13:44
  FTX is number two.
• 13:45
  And it became really,
• 13:46
  really popular in 2021.
• 13:48
  You know,
• 13:49
  and they're flashing money around.
• 13:50
  They bought them only heat stadium.
• 13:51
  Like this, it was just like the cool exchange everyone was using.
• 13:54
  So I'll step back.
• 13:55
  So this is what happened basically.
• 13:57
  I'll, I'll try and roll it down.
• 13:59
  The FTX saga began when a journalist from CoinDest,
• 14:02
  which is another.
• 14:03
  Exchange in the US.
• 14:05
  Published a report to say that a hedge fund in the US,
• 14:08
  which was linked to FDX.
• 14:09
  So I was like,
• 14:10
  I was like,
• 14:11
  I was like,
• 14:12
  I was like,
• 14:13
  I was like,
• 14:15
  I was like, I was like,
• 14:40
  it's not, we're not together, we're not close, it was my company, but we're not at all linked.
• 14:45
  Anyway, this journal uncovered that they were closely linked. And this company, Alamada Research,
• 14:53
  had a huge amount of FTT tokens on its books, roughly five billion. So FTT is a token or a cryptocurrency
• 15:04
  that FTX made up, but it's kind of thinking that it's like the contest, like a frequent flyers type
• 15:10
  token, but they have that in there. So when you when you trade FTX, if you hold that token,
• 15:17
  it gives you discounts on trading. So everyone that trades all is, so it's actually good to have it.
• 15:22
  And it was, it was, you know, it had good, it had a good use case. It ran well in the ecosystem
• 15:28
  if you're using on FTX, but no other value outside. So within this system, so there was FTT token.
• 15:36
  So, but prior to that, when FTX was coming up as an exchange, a, the CEO of Binance, who is the
• 15:45
  number one exchange, a guy called CZ, he invested in FTX, a fair bit of money to help them come up.
• 15:52
  When FTX was doing well, CZ and, and Sam had a discussion and, and CZ said, I come out and
• 15:59
  now Sam goes, okay, I'll, I'll buy you out and paid him in FTT tokens. And FTT was doing well,
• 16:05
  I even held some for a while. So CZ thought, good deal, got paid out, you know, a couple of,
• 16:11
  I think it was quite a few million, a billion at the time, maybe, of these FTT tokens. So that deal
• 16:16
  was done maybe a year ago. Anyway, so this, this article comes out from CoinDesk about
• 16:22
  Alamada Research holding roughly five billion of FTT and not looking good. So CZ, well, they were
• 16:31
  just overexposed and having too many of this on its books and then being closely linked. So one of
• 16:37
  the people who really took note of this was CZ and he realised that FTX, FTX and these FTT tokens
• 16:46
  were really probably going to hold a bit of a risk in the market and Binance holds a lot of these.
• 16:52
  So he realised more broadly speaking that if this FTT token could potentially, yeah, because we
• 16:58
  just had the Luna crash. So, you know, maybe anyone that doesn't understand the Luna crash was,
• 17:04
  yeah, that was, that was a big market crash because it was a Ponzi scheme and that was, you know,
• 17:08
  a few months back and that wasn't great for crypto. But sidebar, that would take me a while to explain,
• 17:12
  but just know Luna crash, similar scenario, Ponzi token that didn't mean anything crash the market.
• 17:19
  So CZ's having nightmares about that thinking, okay, this FTT token could be similar.
• 17:24
  I'm going to get rid of my big stack of this that I hold. He's then probably done a bit of a
• 17:30
  bit of a bitch move and mentioned this on Twitter. So he's announced to everybody.
• 17:34
  Yes, the bitch move. I mean, like, fine. Yeah, because Binance going to buy FTTX?
• 17:43
  No, he wasn't, well, this is coming down. The story's coming to that bit because, yeah, so yeah,
• 17:48
  he's basically said, yeah, he's having a head. He's basically said, he's gone out, everyone said,
• 17:54
  look, I am, we're announcing that we're going to sell more than half a billion dollars worth of
• 17:59
  this FTT token because we don't think it's a good deal right now. So the market got spooked
• 18:05
  from hearing this and then the long-term kind of sustainability of FTX was in question.
• 18:13
  And then Panic said in really quickly, in tens of thousands of FTX customers rushed to withdraw
• 18:19
  their funds from the exchange. This correct that when you withdrew?
• 18:22
  Well, I withdrew about then, yes, because we've got a couple of thousand crypto chats going on,
• 18:27
  but some people are a bit smarter than me, so they're like, anyone's in there get out. So this
• 18:31
  has really created this big rush on, get your money out. Everyone was chatting, take it out.
• 18:37
  So from this, FTX was forced to reveal that they didn't actually have enough money to process
• 18:43
  everyone's withdraws. That's what happens. This is when they really, this has been
• 18:49
  they showed their true colours. That's when I was like, what? FTX, oh my god. So this is when it
• 18:55
  was really shown, if I would have, they'd be insolvent. That's when everyone kind of realised FTX
• 19:01
  was insolvent. So FTX had actually been using its clients' funds to prop up its own trading activities
• 19:08
  and simply didn't have the money on hand to return funds to its customers. So this was huge news,
• 19:15
  this was huge news. So you want to be the first one to get money out, not the last one?
• 19:18
  This is like a reality TV show. I know. Well, this is what it's going to be a
• 19:22
  I think just yesterday they announced that Marvel have like just a Netflix guys have just done
• 19:27
  some, like a mini series. I mean, this is mental. So anyway, when this all went down and you know,
• 19:32
  FTX had to put like a stop on customers getting their funds out. He went to Binance and said,
• 19:37
  hey, I need help because he knew they'd be the only ones that could help. And then there was a
• 19:41
  tweet saying, basically, he said, yeah, what's, you know, what do you call it? Night and shining
• 19:47
  armor. CZ's come to help. He's going to bail him out. I'm going to basically buy FTX. But then
• 19:55
  wait 24 hours, like, you know, depending due to children's obviously, DD had to be done.
• 20:02
  Hold on one second. Why would he ever buy a company where they they've used customers money?
• 20:07
  Two. No, no, he was, well, he was going to come in and help. He was CZ was then going to come in
• 20:12
  and help and do the right things, save the customers and buy the company out because he'd be the,
• 20:18
  he'd be the hero. He's, you know, they basically owe it. Yeah, but it was all going to be based on
• 20:24
  just some DD that had to be done. So it was all looking okay. But literally all it took was 20,
• 20:30
  24 hours. That shows how bad the books were for him to back out. He came and said, look, no,
• 20:35
  these books are just so bad. It's not happening. So with straightaway, basically FTX declared
• 20:41
  bankruptcy and that was when this whole financial contagion then just erupted and all of this
• 20:48
  other stuff, you know, really kind of unleashed from here. It was an absolute. It's just,
• 20:54
  it's just been mental from here. It's just been mental. So much stuff has happened. Honestly,
• 20:59
  like every headline I read is just like, you know, these worst, it's worse and worse and worse.
• 21:05
  There was a headline that he raised $420 million. Yeah. And paid himself the same. By the way,
• 21:11
  paid himself through into a million of that. Yeah. So he was based on the CEO of getting 300 million.
• 21:15
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then now there's all these other dodgy CUND. Yeah. I'm sorry.
• 21:20
  Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And this is the whole thing about greed. Like, you know,
• 21:25
  everything, everybody gets so greedy in the industry and it drives me insane. But all so
• 21:30
  not greedy bad. Nothing. No, but he did do. But they went in there and had a look at his books
• 21:35
  and they basically said it was literally the worst thing that they had ever seen. Like,
• 21:40
  and he was in finance, like sorted out. So this is another thing that I have an issue with is
• 21:46
  the regulation. So that could have never, like I said, never, never. But, you know, having a
• 21:52
  hedge fund that owns that FTT token. Yeah. That FTX is created. And all that into twining,
• 22:01
  you know, you could never have that happen in a traditional. No. No. Look, that is it. But like,
• 22:08
  it just got wilder and wilder. Like, love triangles. You know, he's chatting with Elon.
• 22:14
  He would give him microdose. He'd do big seminars on what drugs to take to keep everyone awake.
• 22:19
  You know, he's got all these got non apartments in the Bahamas under his parents name.
• 22:24
  He had a back door, which allowed him to easily move funds to alter the financial records
• 22:30
  without alerting or triggering anyone with red flags. He was actually a baddie. He's like a baddie.
• 22:36
  He was my ex-boyfriend. He was literally my ex, but this is Sam Vincent. I'm going to block out
• 22:42
  the last name. Oh, far out, like, honestly, that is literally he would steal from my wallet.
• 22:50
  And then he would make guests like me to make me think that I'd lost it. He,
• 22:53
  but you know what, even when you even when you thought that it couldn't get any worse or a bit of
• 22:58
  wider, we did this special episode on it. Like we recorded it all, what had happened on the Friday.
• 23:03
  And we're like, you have to think we've covered it off down a good episode, dropped this bone
• 23:07
  and then on the Saturday, FTX was hacked. Like it was a live hacking. Like, you know, they went in,
• 23:13
  a hacker went in and stole 600 million out of their exchange. Like for instance, they're like
• 23:19
  inside job, obviously. We still don't know who it is. So they took, yes, 600 million.
• 23:25
  They got no money. They stopped. They stopped. They used like withdrawals. They had some,
• 23:32
  yeah, they had some in there, but it's just madness. Absolute madness. Like, you couldn't write
• 23:38
  this stuff. You literally couldn't write it. Obviously, it's God, Netflix is doing a show on it,
• 23:41
  because I will absolutely watch it. I think everyone's going to absolutely watch it. It's
• 23:46
  it's a track, absolutely, train wreck. But, you know, everyone's like, you know, is crypto safe,
• 23:51
  you know, what kind of thing, you know, are we, but like I said, it's, you know, like I said,
• 23:56
  it's been sitting at work just talking about this. And obviously, we've done a beast in crypto.
• 23:59
  We're very traditional beast in stocks. We're sitting on the Australasian stocks.
• 24:04
  But we're sitting there going, okay, you know, how systemic is this? You know, you've been saying,
• 24:09
  so you said, you know, next 24 hours, all this stuff keeps coming to light, keeps unraveling,
• 24:13
  you know, I guess what is, it seems like we're beyond worst case scenario. So it's kind of like,
• 24:20
  what is yet to be uncovered? And is this the kind of the Lehman's moment?
• 24:24
  Yeah, I just about to say no. You know, if this was the first,
• 24:30
  bank to, you know, roll over and the global financial crisis and lead to the flow on pretty much
• 24:35
  the start of the financial crisis. And so even if I'm saying, is this the Lehman's moment of
• 24:40
  crypto and is crypto over or down? Yeah, it's crypto, okay. I think look, the FTA, this saga is
• 24:46
  probably set the crypto space back a year, maybe two. But we're an industry that will learn from this
• 24:51
  and, you know, maybe be able to call out and see the warning signs next time. You know,
• 24:56
  there shouldn't be another FTX, there shouldn't be, you know, but we'll, you know, we will be
• 25:04
  better regulated, I suppose, and look at onshore exchanges. We've got a lot of really great
• 25:09
  onshore exchanges here in W in Australia. People will probably look at self-custody as well,
• 25:15
  looking after their coins on their hardwallets. And we'll probably look at, just stop chasing yield.
• 25:23
  And, you know, that return, yeah, and look at, just look at, because the whole thing with crypto
• 25:31
  is that it is unregulated and it is decentralized. Yeah. So then what's like, I guess the,
• 25:38
  you know, the pessimist to me is like, well, it can't operate unregulated decentralized,
• 25:42
  because there's countless not here to ruin it for everyone. And then so does that mean that the
• 25:46
  whole peer to peer, do we have to go back to, you know, relying on the government? I think that we
• 25:52
  can't put all of this on crypto. I think we cannot put all of this on crypto. We can put this on
• 26:00
  human nature and lack of regulation, because you remember that, Christ, the crypto is not a system,
• 26:06
  it's built on trust and a trustless system. So the block, the blockchain is built on code,
• 26:14
  and humans are, you know, that's what's running the fraud here. So I think regulation is probably
• 26:21
  what a lot of the industry have actually been seeking, but it's regulation that we need to have
• 26:26
  that supports innovation, because sometimes regulation can stifle innovation. You know what I mean?
• 26:32
  Yeah. So I know, I know that here in Australia, a lot of the industry participants, you know,
• 26:38
  currently feel like that, we're kind of looking over our shoulder a little bit, and then being
• 26:43
  a little bit nervous around what regulation is coming, because we want regulation, we want to
• 26:48
  comply with regulation, but we don't know what's coming. So we just want some clarity to understand
• 26:56
  what that regulation is going to be in the sector, but it's hard though, because the whole point of
• 27:01
  us do not have regulation. There's a bit of line between having some regulation, so this doesn't
• 27:06
  have it again, so that people get confident, that people, you know, start buying it again and using it,
• 27:11
  and then there's also, you know, making sure that it still has, you know, its use case of, you know,
• 27:16
  being that peer to peer, you know, being working. Just in terms of what, if I was an investor,
• 27:22
  and I wanted to invest in crypto, but I was super scared about everything going on, like what,
• 27:26
  what should I be looking for in a currency or in an exchange, you know, just as kind of a box tick
• 27:33
  in terms of, look, I think if you're an investor looking to invest in crypto right now, you don't,
• 27:42
  personally, Bitcoin Ethereum, the two big blue chips is where you want to go, you don't want to play
• 27:46
  around anything else. Insaying that though, if you did want to take, if you were educated and you
• 27:53
  went out there and you spent a lot of time and effort, looking at other coins, finding out you think
• 27:59
  this is going to really make a difference in the metaverse, and this one's going to be making a
• 28:03
  difference in, you know, file storage or whatever, and you really think these coins are, and you've
• 28:08
  got to risk appetite. If you're going to put 10,000 in, like we mentioned, I would put 75% of that
• 28:15
  in Bitcoin Ethereum and leave a little tiny bit to make up of these other coins that are going to
• 28:20
  be a risk high risk there. So that would be, you know, where you do it. So whatever you're going to
• 28:25
  put in, major majority of it should be Bitcoin Ethereum, leaving even 80% of it and leaving the
• 28:32
  other bit to try out on these other ones, because they probably won't go anywhere. You know,
• 28:36
  and that's my advice to you, but I still would just stick with Bitcoin Ethereum to be honest,
• 28:41
  especially if you knew. If you're not going to do any research at all and look at those others,
• 28:44
  just stick with Bitcoin Ethereum, that's it. But on an exchange that you, and then take it and
• 28:50
  get someone that you know to explain what a hard wallet is, which is a treasurer that keeps
• 28:56
  a little USB. It's a little USB that's your keys, your wallet, yep, yep, yep, yep,
• 29:01
  yeah, there's my Bitcoin. So then pop that on there. So then you're done. It's safe, it's there,
• 29:14
  that's what I would suggest. If you're in Australia though, you jump on the bamboo app and do it that
• 29:20
  way. But otherwise, yep, that's it. Do it that way. But you know, find someone who knows more about
• 29:25
  and ask questions, you know, listen to the podcast. And there's plenty of great YouTube
• 29:31
  videos you can watch out there. There's loads of good podcasts. There's a really good guy
• 29:35
  called Guy, actually, from the coin bureau. He's really good for beginners. There's a really good
• 29:41
  group called the collective shift. They are really great for beginners too, based in Australian.
• 29:46
  So there's a lot of really good resources out there that you can spend a lot of time on.
• 29:53
  Yeah, yeah. And I guess it's like just like the stock market. You know, there are those blue chip
• 29:57
  really, you know, stable companies that have been around forever, you know,
• 30:02
  created dividend-freever sell really boring things. And then there's those little spicy ones.
• 30:08
  Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, the whole stock market isn't scary. Just like the whole land of crypto
• 30:13
  is not scary. Exactly. This is her talking to herself. Yeah. And once you've done it,
• 30:20
  don't check it every five minutes. Don't check it every week because one week you're going to be
• 30:23
  like, holy shit. And then, you know, just leave it. Set, yeah, set, set and forget and leave it there
• 30:30
  because we are ridiculously early on this thing, ridiculously early. So even put a little bit in there
• 30:36
  and you're ahead of the curve on most of that. So there you go. Oh, we'll put up with it. Right.
• 30:43
  You're right. We're there. Yeah. I must say, I would like to put some more and this is for our
• 30:52
  personal portfolio. Yeah, but I'm just telling you know, I just want to keep maybe get a bit of
• 30:57
  Ethereum because I don't know, I've got any of that. And you definitely need to do that. And
• 31:01
  then offline, I'll tell you about another half a dozen. You've put a cheeky tiny bit in.
• 31:05
  Do some spicy ones. I'll give you some spices. Oh, my god. I think I love that.
• 31:09
  I'll give you some spices. Yeah. And then we'll go to the casino.
• 31:15
  Traces just on the poke. No rule that 21 red all the way. Oh, my god. Amazing. Hey, oh my god.
• 31:23
  This has just been so good. I've learnt so much. I've learnt so much. Oh, hopefully.
• 31:28
  Brain is struggling a tiny bit, but I have learnt so much. Hopefully. Hopefully.
• 31:33
  Thank you so much. Just so coming on. You're a bundle of knowledge and we could have talked
• 31:38
  hours and hours and hours, but you're also a very busy woman. So yeah, thank you so much for taking
• 31:43
  the time out to talk to us and explain your love of crypto and your crazy stuff that's going on,
• 31:49
  but yeah, we really, really appreciate you coming. Thank you so much for having me. It's
• 31:53
  absolute pleasure. Hopefully you'll have me back one day when we're in a bull market and things are
• 31:57
  doing really well and you guys are like, look at my portfolio trace. It's looking great. So,
• 32:04
  thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of Raising the Curve. Please subscribe and
• 32:09
  leave a review on what ever platform you're listening on. We would also love for you to share
• 32:13
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• 32:18
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