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Giving Meaning to Crisis with Dr. Howard Woodruff · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
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Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
0:07
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
0:14
Speaker 1: show five four, three, two and one. Our folks, welcome
0:19
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have back Doctor
0:23
Speaker 1: Howard Woodruff Howard Welcome.
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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you guy. It's great to be back with you.
0:28
Speaker 1: All right, appreciate it. So. Howard is a Christian life coach, author,
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Speaker 1: and crisis response expert with over forty years in emergency services.
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Speaker 1: A former EMT, firefighter and chaplain, he now helps people
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Speaker 1: move from grief and trauma to renewed purpose through his
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Speaker 1: face faith based Back to Abundancy framework. A dean of
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Speaker 1: the School of Christian Mission at Missional University and founder
0:51
Speaker 1: are Reclaimed Living Doctor Woodriff Blend's biblical wisdom, trauma, psychology,
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Speaker 1: and real world experience to guide lasting, healing and hope.
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Speaker 1: Art Howard. So, last time we spoke, I focused really
1:07
Speaker 1: on you. I kind of dug in there into your story.
1:11
Speaker 1: You talked about your the impact your father had on you.
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Speaker 1: We talked about the importance of meaning and purpose, which
1:20
Speaker 1: I do want to talk to talk about as well,
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Speaker 1: but today we're going to talk about we need a
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Speaker 1: little more specific, So introduce to our guests what we're
1:33
Speaker 1: going to talk about today.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think mostly what's on my heart is reaching
1:40
Speaker 2: out to help people prepare for the difficult situations that
1:45
Speaker 2: are going to face. So oftentimes we're just not prepared
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Speaker 2: for it, and that's what throws us into a quandary.
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Speaker 2: And then oftentimes our lives just shatter because we feel
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Speaker 2: we've been so incapacitated or so on prepared, or just
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Speaker 2: you know, a multitude of emotions just just infiltrate us.
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Speaker 2: And I really want to try to help get culture
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Speaker 2: back to the way that we used to be, the
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Speaker 2: way that we used to understand life.
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Speaker 1: So what kind of crist easy we're talking about here?
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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I mean, it really is patient or person dependent,
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Speaker 2: you know, in my case, the death of my father,
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Speaker 2: the death of our son, you know, losing a job.
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Speaker 2: But I remember when I was I was a paramedic,
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Speaker 2: I was the director of emergency services, director of a
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Speaker 2: hospital emergency room at the age of twenty three, and
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Speaker 2: I mean that was quite a that was quite a
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Speaker 2: an achievement. And then when I lost that, I was,
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Speaker 2: you know, what in the world was I going to
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Speaker 2: do with my life? Because that's all I had ever
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Speaker 2: planned about, planned for, wanted to do. And you know,
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Speaker 2: so so people who lose lose jobs, people who you know,
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Speaker 2: lose lose a relationship. I tried to take my life
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Speaker 2: when you know, I was seventeen years old. My girlfriend
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Speaker 2: wanted just talked about breaking up with me. You know,
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Speaker 2: we're not teaching our kids and our generations after us
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Speaker 2: how to deal with those frustrations, And unfortunately what's happening
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Speaker 2: is social media is teaching them.
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Speaker 1: So part of me, a part of me is thinking,
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Speaker 1: no one I mean and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Speaker 1: No one can can prepare for the death of a kid,
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Speaker 1: a child. No one can prepare for the death of
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Speaker 1: How do you prepare for the death of your parents?
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Speaker 1: You know? So how how okay, lose a job, go
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Speaker 1: from breaks up? But granted, different people respond differently, So
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Speaker 1: what are we talking about here specifically?
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Speaker 2: How do you really, really I think you can prepare
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Speaker 2: for the death of a child. And what it is
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Speaker 2: is it takes a strong faith background in order to
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Speaker 2: do this, and it takes a very strong background as
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Speaker 2: to how you exactly see your life. Do you see
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Speaker 2: your life being just for you or do you see
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Speaker 2: your life being as a tool to help others? And
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Speaker 2: so it must have been two years before our son
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Speaker 2: passed away. I was pastoring in a local town and
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Speaker 2: a young man in my son's class who was working
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Speaker 2: on the farm ended up dying, being suffocated in a
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Speaker 2: vat of pigmentore. I mean, could you in a more
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Speaker 2: horrible way to die? And I was asked to do
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Speaker 2: the funeral for that, and you know, you talk about
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Speaker 2: what kind of hope can you impart? You know, at
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Speaker 2: that time, and it was a very difficult thing. And
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Speaker 2: I started reading a lot and realized, you know, just
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Speaker 2: it wass as current as two to three generations ago,
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Speaker 2: that when parents had children, they expected some of their
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Speaker 2: children to die. It was an expectator and that's why
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Speaker 2: they had more kids than we have now. And now
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Speaker 2: because of medicines and inoculations and a lot of those things,
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Speaker 2: you know, the prospect of childhood death isn't as prevalent
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Speaker 2: as it was, and so we haven't had to equip
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Speaker 2: ourselves for when or if that situation would happen. In
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Speaker 2: our case, what happened with me. He was our son
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Speaker 2: was a sergeant in the Marine Corps, and prior to
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Speaker 2: any of his deployments, he would come home. We would
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Speaker 2: sit on the porch. We would do the you know,
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Speaker 2: the macho thing. Just think of any movie, you know.
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Speaker 2: We'd sit there with our cups of brandy and smoking
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Speaker 2: our cigars, talking about the great past that we had,
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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he would just get
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Speaker 2: very serious and he would he would look me right
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Speaker 2: in the eye and he said, Dad, listen, if anything happens,
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Speaker 2: I know where I'm going, do not try to keep
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Speaker 2: me alive. Don't name a building after me, you know,
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Speaker 2: just and and take whatever organs that are needed for
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Speaker 2: other people. And that day, damn that yeah, that we
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Speaker 2: walked into the to the trauma center. He was he
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Speaker 2: was in the best place he could have been for
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Speaker 2: the for the possibility of survival. Walked in the trauma
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Speaker 2: doctor said, you know, I'm sorry your son's brain dead.
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Speaker 2: And right away I went back to that converse. My
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Speaker 2: son prepared me for this moment. Now. I mean, I'll
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Speaker 2: be honest, I did all the things that a father
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Speaker 2: should do, and I knew myself over my son's body.
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Speaker 2: I tried to, you know, say gosh, you know, take me,
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Speaker 2: not him, and did all those things. But but then
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Speaker 2: when I, you know, came came back and thought about
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Speaker 2: what it was that that our son Hamilton said, it
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Speaker 2: was like, okay, I now need to honor his wishes.
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Speaker 2: And what it did, what I realized that happened was
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Speaker 2: my son gave me the gift of control in an
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Speaker 2: otherwise uncontrollable situation. You know, he allowed me, He allowed
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Speaker 2: me to say, okay, I know what my son's wishes were.
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Speaker 2: So even though he's going to die, we still have
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Speaker 2: a say in this. We get to say how it's
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Speaker 2: going to happen.
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Speaker 1: And so hang on here. So you mentioned control and
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Speaker 1: otherwise uncontrollable situation. Yeah, you mentioned the importance of faith.
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Speaker 1: Now does that Does that translate to religious faith? Does
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Speaker 1: that translate to spiritual faith? Any faith, a belief in
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Speaker 1: a larger purpose, a larger media. What are we talking
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Speaker 1: about specifically here?
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Speaker 2: All of the above? All of okay, And that's and
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Speaker 2: that's awesome because this is how I experienced it. When
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Speaker 2: we knew there was no hope for him. Both my
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Speaker 2: wife and I have a lot of medical experience as
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Speaker 2: a paramedic. My wife's a nurse, and we saw his
8:40
Speaker 2: cat scan. His his head was just filled with blood,
8:42
Speaker 2: so we knew his brain was compromised. And so we said, okay,
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Speaker 2: we've we've got to uh, you know, make arrangements to
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Speaker 2: donate his organs. And that was going to happen the
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Speaker 2: next day. So this was this was the next day,
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Speaker 2: right after Easter. We had east on Sunday. Monday morning,
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Speaker 2: our son's dead. And that Monday night we're waiting, you know,
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Speaker 2: until Tuesday for the harvest team to come. And I'm
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Speaker 2: walking around outside the hospital. It is pouring down rain,
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Speaker 2: and I, as a pastor, I am swearing at God.
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Speaker 2: I mean, you would not believe the words I'm using
9:22
Speaker 2: my son. You know, I've helped I've helped so many
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Speaker 2: other people survive and now here's my son. And I
9:29
Speaker 2: can't do I can't do shit. Excuse me, I can't
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Speaker 2: do anything, you know. And I had a conversation with God.
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Speaker 2: I say, hey, I'm a pastor. I thought i'd have.
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Speaker 1: A little bit of a a little bit of a cushion.
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Speaker 2: And literally literally guy, I'm not not blowing smoke, but
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Speaker 2: I just heard God say, what did you celebrate last yesterday?
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Speaker 2: And it was course, you know, Jesus, death is resurrection.
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Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden it hit me. I mean,
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Speaker 2: here I am. I am a father who would have
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Speaker 2: done anything to save my son, but here is God
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Speaker 2: who allowed his son to die, so that when we
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Speaker 2: incur these moments, we know there's a better way that's
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Speaker 2: that's left. We're not unredeemed that our our Christian faith
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Speaker 2: tells us that we will see each other again. It
10:26
Speaker 2: will be some time. This will be a hurting moment,
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Speaker 2: but we'll get through it. And and then for me,
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Speaker 2: it was it was just the fact that, you know,
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Speaker 2: God has given me this, this wonderful opportunity to say
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Speaker 2: goodbye to my son when he could have been killed
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Speaker 2: in so many other horrible ways. Being special Forces with
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Speaker 2: with the Marine Corps, you know that we just we
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Speaker 2: just interpreted it as truly a gift from God that uh,
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Speaker 2: you know, we'll never be able to get the answer
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Speaker 2: why why it happened. That's not going to change anything
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Speaker 2: still hurts. And because of that, I've been able to
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Speaker 2: minister and to help and to coach literally hundreds of
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Speaker 2: people who have gone through that very process, and they
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Speaker 2: have all come back and said, how how blessed they
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Speaker 2: feel because of what they've gone through and they've worked through.
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Speaker 1: But let's let's talk about preparing people for this. Let's
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Speaker 1: get specific and and of course we're talking about an
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Speaker 1: extreme example, the loss of a child, but right that
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Speaker 1: is an extreme not everyone is obviously going to experience that.
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Speaker 1: But if we take a couple notch just back, take
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Speaker 1: a couple of steps back, what are we talking about
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Speaker 1: here that our culture quote unquote doesn't have, or isn't
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Speaker 1: working on, or isn't focusing on what are those skills
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Speaker 1: or what do we need?
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Speaker 2: Well? I believe our culture is telling too many of
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Speaker 2: us to focus on ourselves. You know, gone are the
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Speaker 2: are the days when generations look forward to say I
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Speaker 2: want to work to make things better for my kids.
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Speaker 2: You know, we kind of stepped away from that back
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Speaker 2: in the late sixties early seventies and it became all
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Speaker 2: about the me generation. What can I amass, what can
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Speaker 2: I gather? We look at the state of family life
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Speaker 2: today where there is just so much disbandonment over the
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Speaker 2: nuclear family. I believe the nuclear family is where God,
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Speaker 2: you know, God really shines, because it literally does to
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Speaker 2: you know, to take that book, it does take a
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Speaker 2: village to raise, to raise a child. And we've got
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Speaker 2: to be able to realize that that some of us
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Speaker 2: are not going to live to the ripe old age
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Speaker 2: of ninety eight or one hundred and die in our sleep,
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Speaker 2: will die at other ages. But if we truly believe
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Speaker 2: that God is in control, if we can look back
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Speaker 2: through history and say, yeah, look look at the horrible
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Speaker 2: thing that that happened to Job, and he remained steadfast,
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Speaker 2: He remained a believer that God had his best intentions
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Speaker 2: at hand, and certainly that that came to fruition. We
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Speaker 2: look at everybody in scripture who has gone down those roads,
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Speaker 2: that road to struggle and defeat and you know, early
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Speaker 2: death or what have you, and somehow God has always
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Speaker 2: been glorified through it. And I think if if we
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Speaker 2: would really start to reorient our lives to follow the
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Speaker 2: original calling that you know that first we're called to
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Speaker 2: being be great encouragers of each other, not to be
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Speaker 2: in competition with one another, but to encourage one another,
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Speaker 2: to help each other, long to celebrate each other's victories
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Speaker 2: and the defeats, to help analyze the defeat and say
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Speaker 2: how can how can we help you to get better?
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Speaker 1: Okay, so so that value of caring for others maybe
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Speaker 1: overmize over oneself specifically, I'm just playing playing Devil's advocate here.
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Speaker 1: How's that going to help me? If if in a
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Speaker 1: crisis situation?
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Speaker 2: Okay, it first and foremost, it brings meaning not just
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Speaker 2: to your life, but it brings meaning to that very situation.
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Speaker 2: All of a sudden, the things that we once thought
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Speaker 2: were out of control are now somehow in control. We
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Speaker 2: may not understand it, we may not like it, but
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Speaker 2: when we can say we believe that this is a
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Speaker 2: part of God's overall plan. This is a plan for restoration,
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Speaker 2: for remake. God has invited me into this part, and
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Speaker 2: he's invited me at a very difficult part. So I've
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Speaker 2: got one of two ways that I can demonstrate this.
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Speaker 2: I can either say, wow, I'm a victim. I don't
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Speaker 2: know what to do. Or we can say I'm going
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Speaker 2: to walk with God through this because I know God
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Speaker 2: has put me here for a reason, and you know,
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Speaker 2: and it may just just be a reason that it
15:28
Speaker 2: doesn't ultimately affect us in the long run, but maybe
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Speaker 2: somebody who's watching us and learning a little bit from us,
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Speaker 2: and then when they have their moment, they then are
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Speaker 2: empowered with the ability and the way that they can move,
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Speaker 2: you know.
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Speaker 1: So correct me if I'm wrong here. We're ascribing we're
15:54
Speaker 1: giving faith over to the situation. Yes, how the hell
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Speaker 1: can anyone you're talking about faith? You're talking about giving
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Speaker 1: power control over when we don't otherwise have power over
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Speaker 1: the situation. Now, for those people who aren't Christian, they
16:20
Speaker 1: don't necessarily believe in God. Are you saying it's important
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Speaker 1: that they believe in some kind of universal spiritual power?
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Speaker 2: I believe it is, okay. Now, I of course, coming
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Speaker 2: from the Christian background, I believe that Jesus Christ is
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Speaker 2: the answer, and I would certainly urge people in that direction.
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Speaker 2: But if that's just not a direction that people are
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Speaker 2: ready to go yet or can go, then by all means,
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Speaker 2: look at something beyond themselves. Understand that this world is
16:57
Speaker 2: not just about us, but this world is about a
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Speaker 2: relationship with us, in relationship with each other. So there
17:06
Speaker 2: are going to be those times that we've got those
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Speaker 2: incredible highs, you know, and they're going to be and
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Speaker 2: maybe we can reach out and help others, and then
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Speaker 2: there'll be those times when we have those incredible lows
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Speaker 2: when we can't reach out and help each other. But
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Speaker 2: what we have to do is be willing to accept
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Speaker 2: from other people ideas, suggestions, perhaps plans to help move
17:31
Speaker 2: them through this part of their life. One one aspect
17:36
Speaker 2: of the the treatment that I use is called a
17:41
Speaker 2: time map. And you know, we drolled into your time.
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Speaker 2: And I talk about the fact that that that our
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Speaker 2: time goes from our point of birth to our point
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Speaker 2: of death usually goes on a you know, chronological time basis.
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Speaker 2: But when you look at time in general, the the
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Speaker 2: Chairos time, God's time, it's not limited to that straight line.
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Speaker 2: It's limited to ups and downs, to forwards to backwards.
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Speaker 2: So while you know, while scripture says that you know,
18:14
Speaker 2: it took six days to create all of this earth,
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Speaker 2: I believe that it took six days. The challenges how
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Speaker 2: long were those days? I don't think they were twenty
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Speaker 2: four hour days back then. They could have a day
18:27
Speaker 2: could have been a thousand years back then. And in
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Speaker 2: God's time, it's it's hard to it's hard to equate
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Speaker 2: and relate that to. But when I have, when I
18:35
Speaker 2: have people, then take and plot. I'll say, what I
18:39
Speaker 2: want you to do is plot your your greatest moments
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Speaker 2: in life and your most horrible moments in life. The
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Speaker 2: great moments go up on top scale one to five,
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Speaker 2: the on toward ones go on the bottom scale one
18:52
Speaker 2: to five. Inevitably, what we find is every horrible event
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Speaker 2: that they have had gave birth to to one of
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Speaker 2: their highest moments in life.
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Speaker 1: All right, a second, So you're you're bringing in a
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Speaker 1: different aspect here. As far as I'm understanding, it.
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Speaker 2: Is not just.
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Speaker 1: Having an appreciation for the relationship of everyone else or
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Speaker 1: others rather than just ourselves, but looking at the meaning
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Speaker 1: in a sense, is it important to ascribe meaning?
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Speaker 3: Oh?
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Speaker 2: I think so. I really think so, because because once
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Speaker 2: once you are able to ascribe that meaning, then you
19:47
Speaker 2: can also envelop that sense of purpose. And then all
19:52
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the things that we used to think
19:54
Speaker 2: were just random, coincidental, they stop taking on that that feeling,
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Speaker 2: and they we realized that there really was a purpose,
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Speaker 2: there was a plan, and that things are going to
20:11
Speaker 2: get things are going to get better. They're going to
20:14
Speaker 2: get better. We need to wait that out, all right.
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Speaker 1: So how would you list to these qualities? So far
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Speaker 1: we're talking about that, and you started out by saying,
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Speaker 1: our culture, we've kind of lost what we need to
20:30
Speaker 1: get through these crises. Yes, so what else are we
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Speaker 1: dealing with here? What else do you think people need
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Speaker 1: to learn?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think they need to learn, need
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Speaker 2: to be reassured that they that there is a creator,
20:48
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call them, there's a creator that
20:51
Speaker 2: loves them, a creator that has created them for a purpose.
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Speaker 2: And that purpose is for for many of us, is
21:00
Speaker 2: oftentimes yet to be seen in our lives, all these
21:03
Speaker 2: events that were going through our steps to get us
21:07
Speaker 2: to the ultimate purpose of why God created us. You know,
21:10
Speaker 2: of course, the great existential question why am I here?
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Speaker 2: I love that question, and that question should not be
21:19
Speaker 2: a question that we ask looking for an outside answer
21:23
Speaker 2: to be given to us, but a question that we
21:25
Speaker 2: answer ourselves and we say, I know why I'm here.
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Speaker 2: And it may not be the magnanimous things in the world.
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Speaker 2: It may not be just to you know, become president
21:38
Speaker 2: of the United States or a multi millionaire. Maybe maybe
21:42
Speaker 2: your sole purpose was to be that person who gave
21:46
Speaker 2: a smile to somebody in the in the grocery line,
21:51
Speaker 2: and that smile just happened to prevent them from shooting
21:54
Speaker 2: themselves that day. You'll never know it, you know, but
21:59
Speaker 2: you've got to believe that that your life is so
22:02
Speaker 2: much more than what the human physical realm can can
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Speaker 2: give you can provide.
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Speaker 1: You when you when your son died, did did you
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Speaker 1: have these qualities? Did you have these beliefs? Or did
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Speaker 1: you was that the point where you're like, holy crap,
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Speaker 1: I need something?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would say, guy, it was It was both.
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Speaker 2: I was at the time feeling that I was really
22:42
Speaker 2: having a strong command in dealing with death and death situations.
22:49
Speaker 2: I was having a very a very good career in
22:54
Speaker 2: walking people who were in hospice, walking people literally up
23:00
Speaker 2: to the gates of heaven, you know, and then watching
23:03
Speaker 2: them pass through as as they died. Here working with
23:07
Speaker 2: the families to say, look, you know, your loved one
23:10
Speaker 2: is going to have a great time. Would would you
23:13
Speaker 2: be sad that they were going to Hawaii for a week?
23:15
Speaker 2: You know, none of us would be sad about that.
23:18
Speaker 2: But the reality is, gosh, it's going to probably be
23:21
Speaker 2: longer than a week until we see them again. But
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Speaker 2: For for me, as I was working through that and
23:26
Speaker 2: then my son died, it was almost like the Lord saying, okay, Howard,
23:33
Speaker 2: put up or shut up? Put up or shut up?
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Speaker 2: And and and here's here's really where for me life changed.
23:44
Speaker 2: I don't want to go too far. But our son,
23:47
Speaker 2: when he was in his car accident, we think he
23:49
Speaker 2: had a cerebralieneurism that ruptured that left him unconscious. He
23:55
Speaker 2: was driving his brand new truck, went up over an abankment,
23:59
Speaker 2: then down between two bridge parapets to the road below.
24:04
Speaker 2: And when the when the car hit the a post
24:06
Speaker 2: that posts in the front of the windshield. They're manufactured
24:12
Speaker 2: to break and to go out, but this one broke
24:14
Speaker 2: and came in and penetrated his tongue. Oh So, in
24:19
Speaker 2: brain injuries, when people have strokes and cerebral aneurysms that rupture,
24:25
Speaker 2: what happens is the skull is basically a closed unit,
24:31
Speaker 2: and bleeding starts happening, and it builds pressure and it
24:34
Speaker 2: pushes the brain stem down the spinal cord, and that's
24:37
Speaker 2: what kills the individual. It knocks out their heartbeat and
24:41
Speaker 2: their respiratory rate takes about about thirty seven thirty eight
24:48
Speaker 2: millimeters of mercury, you know, pressure to do that. Well,
24:52
Speaker 2: we were watching our son. I was monitoring the pressure
24:55
Speaker 2: in his head and he would start to get up
24:58
Speaker 2: to that level where the herniation would start, and all
25:02
Speaker 2: of a sudden, this bandage that they had here on
25:04
Speaker 2: the side of his head would just lift up a
25:06
Speaker 2: little bit, almost like a pressure dressing. Whoa, and you
25:09
Speaker 2: could hear air leak out, Oh my god, and then
25:12
Speaker 2: his pressure would drop. So when the harvest team came,
25:16
Speaker 2: the transplant team came, they said, there's a possibility that
25:20
Speaker 2: will get him down into the oar, will remove his
25:24
Speaker 2: breathing tube. But if he doesn't build up the pressure
25:27
Speaker 2: to herniate his brain to kill him, then we'll have
25:32
Speaker 2: to bring him back. You know, he'll probably be a
25:34
Speaker 2: vegetable for the rest of his life and he can't
25:37
Speaker 2: he won't be able to donate his organs. And we
25:40
Speaker 2: must have had fifty or sixty people out in the
25:43
Speaker 2: waiting room, and I went out and I said, look,
25:45
Speaker 2: I know you have been praying for his you know,
25:48
Speaker 2: for survival, for a beautiful miracle to happen, but I
25:52
Speaker 2: think another miracle needs to happen. And I said, you
25:57
Speaker 2: you need to pray for Hamilton to die. I said,
26:00
Speaker 2: you just need to pray for that, because if he doesn't,
26:03
Speaker 2: his body is going to be useless for anybody else.
26:06
Speaker 2: And so we went down with him to the oar
26:10
Speaker 2: and I'm sitting there holding his head right beside him.
26:13
Speaker 2: I can hear the heart monitor in the back, and
26:16
Speaker 2: I know when they take him off the ventilator and
26:19
Speaker 2: his heart rate just slowed down and just stopped. And
26:24
Speaker 2: it was such a peaceful, beautiful death. And then, you know,
26:29
Speaker 2: to realize, probably seven eight months later, get letters from
26:34
Speaker 2: people who receive the corneas of his eyes, who received
26:39
Speaker 2: some of his long bones. I have a very famous
26:43
Speaker 2: person who received his pancreas and lived for another two years,
26:51
Speaker 2: and I mean a multi billionaire who did it. And
26:54
Speaker 2: I think he was a little afraid that I just
26:57
Speaker 2: I deduced things, you know, because they never tell you
26:59
Speaker 2: who took it. But just when he came out at
27:01
Speaker 2: the annual meeting and was talking about it, and I
27:05
Speaker 2: put it together. He had received his transplant the morning
27:10
Speaker 2: after our son donated his, and he just happened to
27:14
Speaker 2: have all the right things, but it was like, you know,
27:17
Speaker 2: our son, there's nothing I would want more than my
27:21
Speaker 2: son to be back here with me. But because of
27:24
Speaker 2: his life, because of his death, other people now are living.
27:28
Speaker 2: And that's the way I want my life to be too.
27:31
Speaker 2: I want.
27:33
Speaker 1: Is it fair to say, on one level, when we
27:39
Speaker 1: encounter crises in our lives we have a choice of
27:46
Speaker 1: how we're going to respond, Yes, we do. We have
27:51
Speaker 1: a choice, and if we don't do anything, that's making
27:54
Speaker 1: a choice. And what I hear you saying, Howard is
28:01
Speaker 1: taking these situations and making meaning out of them, almost
28:09
Speaker 1: in a sense, honoring them.
28:12
Speaker 2: Yes, that's much better than I could have said a guy.
28:15
Speaker 2: That's that's it.
28:17
Speaker 1: I mean, because we're all going to experience varying degrees
28:23
Speaker 1: of crises, we're all going to die, right, and we
28:26
Speaker 1: have a choice about how we're going to live our.
28:28
Speaker 2: Lives right right, And and also the flip side of
28:34
Speaker 2: this is and how our relatives are going to live on.
28:38
Speaker 2: I mean when I die, I don't I don't want
28:42
Speaker 2: my death to decimate my family where they become recluses
28:46
Speaker 2: and no longer productive. They all have, you know, our
28:50
Speaker 2: our daughter, son in law, my wife, two grandkids. They
28:54
Speaker 2: I mean, God's God's work and their life is so incredible.
28:59
Speaker 2: Now I would I would hate for that to stop
29:02
Speaker 2: just because I died. We knew what was coming, we
29:05
Speaker 2: knew death is inevitable, and so just you know, we've
29:09
Speaker 2: it's and again it's it's not a subject that we
29:12
Speaker 2: want to talk about, but it's a subject we have
29:15
Speaker 2: to talk about, or it's or one day it's just
29:18
Speaker 2: going to clabor us over the head and and we're
29:21
Speaker 2: not going to know what to do.
29:24
Speaker 1: All right, as we wind down here, Howard, how do
29:29
Speaker 1: people learn more about what you're doing it Reclaimed Living?
29:31
Speaker 1: What's the best way for them to get in contact
29:33
Speaker 1: with you?
29:34
Speaker 2: The best way is just go on the website Reclaimed
29:37
Speaker 2: dash living dot org. There, I have a biography of myself.
29:42
Speaker 2: I've got some testimonials of some other people I've worked with.
29:48
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I've worked with Academy Award winners, NFL players,
29:53
Speaker 2: average you know, just average people.
29:56
Speaker 1: And in what context and more capacity as as a coach.
30:00
Speaker 2: As a coach yeah yeah, okay, coach, then spiritual advisor.
30:04
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, awesome, and and all of.
30:07
Speaker 2: These have developed a wonderful friendship and and I think
30:12
Speaker 2: one of the greatest uh uh marketing tools that that
30:17
Speaker 2: people can can use for me. Is is basically, people
30:21
Speaker 2: say you are so approachable and so non judgmental, and
30:25
Speaker 2: I say yeah, because I I was.
30:29
Speaker 3: I was a horrible person years ago, and I know
30:32
Speaker 3: how easy it is to be like that, and and
30:36
Speaker 3: and you doesn't matter where you've come from, it matters
30:39
Speaker 3: where you're going and when you want to change your life.
30:42
Speaker 2: Let's work on it, let's do it. Let's be serious.
30:45
Speaker 1: Appreciate that, all right, Howard, we'll have that link up
30:47
Speaker 1: here at the shows page at the Trauma Therapist podcast
30:50
Speaker 1: dot com. My friend, great, seeing you again. Have an
30:53
Speaker 1: awesome new year. All right, very much, blessings, take care
30:59
Speaker 1: you too. They get the common possible for the retirement