Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Power of Adult Friendships | Guest Andi Andrew Enneagram 4

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The Power of Adult Friendships | Guest Andi Andrew Enneagram 4 · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:03
SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Amy Wix, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: As a wife, mama of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: But I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: As an Enneagram Type 7, I am all about the fun factor.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own week.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: It's a verse that says, God has given us all things to enjoy.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: And all?
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, friends, it means all.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: With the Lord's help, there is truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Simply Full Hearted Podcast, where you can expect solo style and interview style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: And let's get to learning together.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard the saying, be who your younger self needed?
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's exactly what author in Enneagram 4, Andy Andrews did while writing a book on friendship, which is something that she really wanted to have had five years ago.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Andy's newest book is called Friendship.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: It's complicated and is all about what the Lord walked her through on the topic of navigating and also pruning her friendships.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Has this thought ever crossed your mind?
2:00
SPEAKER_00: I thought we were gonna be friends forever.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes friendships it's messy.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: And there are times that people are only meant to be in your life for a season.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: This is hard.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: But with God's redeeming love and leading, it is possible for healthy friendships to be restored.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: As Annie Book says, we were made for connection with other women.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And yet too often our friendships are marked by drama, competition, betrayal, or unforgiveness.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Her book is packed with biblical and practical advice all about friendship reconciliation.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And so is this conversation.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Do you have friends?
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Or do you want to have friends?
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, this is an episode that you're gonna want to listen to.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: I actually thought maybe the Lord was gonna ask me to write a book on friendship this year.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: I do not like have an agent that I'm working with or a publisher or anything, but it just seemed like the topic was heavy on my heart.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I led a small group on it this year.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I don't think it really had anything to do with sharing a message with anyone else as much as like I was living some intense pruning and refinement when it came to friendships.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: It just captured my attention because I thought we need more about this.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: That's why I even thought, well, maybe I should write a book because it was hard to find anything at the time.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: But that's the thing too that I realized even when I wrote this, I had a need, a desperate need for a book like this five years ago when I was walking through so much turmoil in relationships.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: So isn't that interesting?
3:43
SPEAKER_01: I had to process and walk through stuff with God to then write a book where I'm like, I hope this helps people because I was looking for this.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: I laugh now how I even would have approached the topic nine months ago when it first popped into my mind, as opposed to the road that I've walked.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I had already walked a tough road or a challenging season of where the Lord was pruning friendships.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think all of us have probably experienced the, you know, COVID and the election and division in the church.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we're probably all feeling that pinch.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're experiencing when you talk to women about this?
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the biggest thing that I have noticed is it's not just me.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Like we have all been walking through relational destruction, like where it's like, wow, I thought we were gonna be friends forever.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I know that sounds like so cheesy, but that's how you go into friendship is with trust and opening your heart and doing life together.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, everything from COVID to the racial, political, everything divide has literally been something where I feel like we're we're just all missing each other.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: We're completely missing each other and we're forgetting about the fundamentals of how to do relationship because we're all walking around wounded, in pain, angry.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's definitely been a felt need.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: And that's what's so funny.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: I didn't write the book thinking this is a felt need.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: I wrote it again because I was like, I need this book.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, I think you should write it because we need layers of help with this topic.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was kind of curious to know were you nervous about writing it?
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Because the old adage for most authors is that if you're gonna write it, you're gonna have to live it.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And most of those things we write about, we don't want to really live it.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say so.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: I get amnesia every time I start to write another book.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, why?
5:35
SPEAKER_01: I forgot.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: This is hard.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: You can't, this cannot just be head knowledge.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: This has to be lived, like yeah, it has to be lived with revelation knowledge from the scripture and actual illustration from life.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: It can't just be ideas.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: And so I think, yeah, there was a little bit of nervousness.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I would say, even after it's been released out into the world, it has been tested.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: It has been tested big time, and there's been a lot of pain that I walked through.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's just life on planet Earth, but it is.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: You kind of why are we looking for like this utopia that doesn't exist yet?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: We're not there, we're not in heaven, but it's what we want.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: I know I'm past the 40 mark, and there may have been subconsciously this idea once we hit this decade, somehow this issue that feels petty sometimes that feels like we're living our junior high years, that somehow we would be over the hill and we would not be dealing with this.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the disappointment a little bit is realizing, oh no, this is actually a lifelong issue.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not relegated to teen years or 20s or 30s.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: It's we're gonna have to continue to revisit this.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because every relationship we're in takes work for it to actually be a healthy relationship.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we know that with our marriages, we know that with our children, we know that in the different spheres that we have, even in our work relationships, you have to foster those to build something healthy together.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: And so it's no different with friendships.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why they can fall away and we can miss each other and we don't communicate properly, we're not self-aware and we're trying to get our needs met.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: We have unspoken expectations, like of what we thought a friendship should be.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, whoa, I've had many a times where I have said, even in the past few months, like, hey, we may have missed each other there.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: What were your expectations of me in this certain scenario?
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Because I missed that.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: So asking questions like that, that instead of making it weird, it's just like, I'm so sorry if I missed the mark.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: I was unaware of what the mark was.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Can you maybe let me know?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, or even being willing to go back.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I know that we don't often know what's needed unless we go through a situation ourselves.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And so if we haven't experienced that grief or that pain or that loss or just whatever trial or circumstance, and then we get to there and we're like, oh, whoa, I really needed my friends to do this or that.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Then my next thought is like, shoot, I think I maybe miss some people when they were in the midst of a similar situation.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And I probably have a little bit of apologizing to do, or then going, man, I wish they would have told me what I could have done.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: So I could have been the friend that they needed.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: One of my closest friends, we have been friends for like 20 plus years, I've known her longer than my husband.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, five years ago, like our friendship like burned to the ground.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Like we went through this very difficult season, but that was in a way when people are like, What inspired you to write the book?
8:28
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, about five years ago, as I'm like, I'm an adult woman in my, you know, mid-30s leading a church, like I should really have this together.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you feel like you're gonna get to some certain age and it's all gonna be okay.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: But I just noticed all of these relationships burning to the ground.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: I cried out to God and I was like, God, seriously, what's the deal here?
8:49
SPEAKER_01: And it was like the Holy Spirit said, Hey, Andy, you're the common denominator in every relationship you're in.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: And for me to realize that was when I had to take radical ownership of my side of things.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: But when my friend Tanya and I, like I said, I write about her a lot, we've reconciled.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful story, and things are just so beautiful, probably because we both chose to rebuild.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: So there had to be reciprocity there.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: But yes, the beautiful thing was is as we sat there, we asked each other, what do you need from me?
9:19
SPEAKER_01: How can I love you?
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Here's what I'm willing to do.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: But like you said, I think I've realized when I backtrack and look at some relationships too.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: I went, Oh my gosh, I need to make amends.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I need to apologize.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, but also, yes, I want you to tell me what you need from me.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, like I can't be a mind reader and I'm gonna I'm gonna miss the mark.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: So help me out.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: So yes.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is so good.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that takes a deep level of self-awareness, which is one of the things that I wanted to cover today.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: There's always so many things, but you know, I gotta narrow down the focus.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: I think you've understood or figured out your Enneagram type along this process.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: So do enlighten us and tell us the little bit about this journey and what you've learned in the process.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: That's so funny that you said that.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember which chapter.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: It might have been the second or third one because I make totally make fun of myself about the Enneagram and how I avoided like everyone's like, You what are you?
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I bet you're this, I bet you're that.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: And I know you're not supposed to do that, but everyone does.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: But we do.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And so everyone's guessing what I am, and like years later, I'm like, fine, I'll take the test.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, I take the test and it like scores me.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm like a nine, an eight, and a four.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, well, that's this clear's mud.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's very so.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Then I read The Road Back to You.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: So that was someone just said, don't worry about the test, just read it.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: And so I read through all of them, and all I remember is I'm sitting at Italy in downtown Manhattan by myself, eating a pizza, and I am reading through the chapter on being a four.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I just start sobbing like alone over my pizza.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: And I go, okay, well, yeah, I've never felt so seen as I've read this book.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And realizing that so much of life has been me being a four-wing three, realizing that there's a part of me where I deeply feel everything.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: The weakness is that there's always something missing, right?
11:20
SPEAKER_01: So it's always something wrong.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: So then what do you do?
11:22
SPEAKER_01: You end up thinking about yourself a lot.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: That's not great in friendship when you're always thinking about yourself.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: So realizing that, but realizing when I'm healthy, I can actually pull a lot out of the other person in friendships.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Bring a lot of beauty to the friendship.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm grateful for my three-wing because it actually helps me to get stuff done.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: So that I don't sit there in my emotions, but it can be very complicated.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, every number is.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we all have complexities, but that was funnily enough, a bit of my journey and trying to gain understanding on who I was, self-awareness, so I know who I am, coming to the table, where I need healing, what I can own, and stop getting other people to try to own stuff or fix stuff for me, or trying to carry their stuff for them.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Because another huge thing that I realized, and we can go wherever you want, but is like, I mean, chapter one, I talk about the woman wound, which I taught I go into depth about my mother and the self-awareness and understanding that a lot of my issues and my lens with other women came from how I learned codependency with my mom with a little.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot in there, but that was some of my journey with Enneagram and all of that.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: What are you?
12:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm sure everybody knows what you do.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: I mistyped myself a couple of times, even as an Enneagram coach.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And so it just takes time.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: These things, like you said, yeah, can't necessarily rely on the test.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: I find most of the time when clients come to me and they're like, uh, I don't really know.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: The test tells them maybe they're tri-type or a learned coping mechanism.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: But really, what's the dominant innate nature?
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, it comes through story work and processing.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: But for me, I landed on a seven wing eight.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Now it's clear as day.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how did I even miss it?
13:13
SPEAKER_00: But I I didn't even give it consideration in a way.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: I thought there's no way I'm in the in my head.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: There's no way I'm this overly enthusiastic person who overcommits and under follows through and don't doesn't reverse wings.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Instead, I'm like, oh no, you know, I kind of have this vision of more of me being a two-wing three or a three-wing two.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wrong on that on all accounts.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: But it's been so good.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: And because too, I think with friendships, I've learned I am inclined to collect them in a way.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: It's something that I'm really driven to because it feels secure.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be limited in my friendships, the opportunities, the experiences, and that can serve me and it can also be a disservice.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: It's all about my motivation in pursuing those relationships.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: And am I collecting them just to collect them?
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Or am I being intentional?
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Am I being aware of their needs?
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Am I am I serving myself or am I being selfless?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And so it's definitely been a growing process.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And again, kind of really going back to the last couple of years, to be honest, um, of processing through that, the refining of that, and like, oh, okay, shoot.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the last two years we're we've all seen the darkest parts of ourselves.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes, who am I?
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: That's really what's in there.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: I would love to have you say because I think I can put you on the spot.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: But I know I've worked with several um type four clients and I love each of the Enneagram type as my clients for many different reasons, but something recurring that I found to be true is the sense of not belonging.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: So would you just extrapulate on that a little bit, expand on this thought that a four has about not belonging, in particular with their peers and in friendships?
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Interestingly enough, you bringing that up, that's a major barrier for me in friendship.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: So if you walk through life like with this like core belief that you really have to work through that there's always something missing, you're not good enough, or you need to work on something, or all of these things.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: And that uh, why am I blanking on the line you just said?
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the not belonging?
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and the not belonging part.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: So it makes it hard to step into a relationship.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And also you want authenticity.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: I want to be my true self in front of people.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: But then what I realize is I deeply feel everything.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: I walk into a room and I sense where people are at and all, you know what I mean?
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Like all of those, which you know is discernment, all of those different things.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I believe that's a gift from the Holy Spirit.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: But then at the same time, when you walk into a room like that, then you start to wonder where do I belong?
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: How do I fit?
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna think I'm weird?
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Are my emotions too much?
16:03
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
16:03
SPEAKER_01: My emotions have been too much for people.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: That's an actual reality that I have faced.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: And so then for me to truly be able to show up and be myself in relationships, I have to feel safe enough, especially within that inner circle, safe enough because my emotions and my heart are not for everybody, too.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: And so that's I talk about that.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: True story.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: That's important.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: But that has been a difficult thing that you do have to overcome.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, that's where I have to be intentional and go, I want to self-protect, I want to self-preserve, I want to be on the outside looking in.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Cause you get up into your head and you go, These people want to accept me, which is just a lie.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: Like you actually stop yourself from having any richness and any real relationship if you're always holding back a part of who you are.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: And so just realizing that I mean, do you have a number where you're like, oh, I wish I could be more like that?
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Or you know what I mean?
16:57
SPEAKER_01: So sure.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Some of my closest friends are eights.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: I have like a handful of them.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I really respect and love and honor the eight.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes I'm like, I just wish I could like show up in a room and be like, yeah, I'm fine, everything's good, you know.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, and I'm not, and so and you can't really hide it very well.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: No, I can't hide it at all.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: And like, this is when I know too is I am a crier.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: I have been since like when I'm happy, I cry.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: When I'm sad, I cry.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: When I think things are hilarious, I cry.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: My dad is like that too.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: So I birthed four children, and not a one of them are criers.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: They they don't emote.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: I was like, how did I like right during during the movie trailers?
17:44
SPEAKER_01: They're all looking over at me.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, stop looking at me.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have a moment in my movie trailer.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: So funny.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: No, you can't hide it though.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: I can't hide my joy and I can't hide my sadness, and I can't, I mean, it's a lot, but my husband loves it, so and my kids are fine with it, so it's fine.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: That's all right, that's all they know.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: That's and it's exactly what they've needed in you demonstrating that to them for whatever reason.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: God set it up really perfectly.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: That maybe it's not innate to them, but they it's gonna be a learned trait that will be really valuable.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been beautiful because I've even had moments where I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm crying, I'm trying to hold it together.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: And my eldest son will be like, Why?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Like it's fine.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: Your crying doesn't bother us.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wow, like you're 16.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: That was awesome.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is really sweet.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: All right.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Another question to kind of put you on the spot too is that, and I just think my Enneagram 4 people are going to eat this up because they're like, oh, finally, I'm not the only one.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Because in our coaching session, oftentimes I can speak what it is that they are experiencing or knowing because I can put on their lens because of my knowledge base and the training and everything like that.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: But there is nothing more powerful than hearing something that you can go me to.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And so you've touched on the belonging, but another piece that I think that fits in here oftentimes and is often intertwined is the struggle with envy and how that envy sometimes poisons the engagement to belong or to pursue and tends to uh land them in a self-sabotage cycle that sometimes they can't get out of.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
19:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie to you, I haven't drilled down on that too much, and maybe I need to a little bit more.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: I think for me, the envy comes in.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: This is a great question.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I kind of love that you're putting me on the spot.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Coaching, I think it's really fun.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: I love like, oh, we don't know what's gonna happen.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's the real thing.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: We're having a conversation.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Imagine that.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, imagine that.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: But the envy thing, it does come in for me.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna just start with my marriage really quickly.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: So my husband is a three, he is just a steady river.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: He is peaceful, he can walk through the fire, like hard things happen.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: He's just okay.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: He deeply feels and he appropriately grieves and lets things go, but he's just got this beautiful consistency about him.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And what is interesting is the times where I sabotage or try to, and you don't even realize you're doing it.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, oh no, you don't.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Why am I doing this?
20:20
SPEAKER_01: It's not purposeful.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: No, is when I think or feel I should be more like him.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: I should be more steady.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: I should be like, and I, and I'm just not.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: And so something is, and then it's the spiral.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Something is wrong with me.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm not enough.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go into my corner over here and I'm just gonna think about myself.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: I think that that's what we can do.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: So then put that into the friendship zone, put that into showing up at church, at your work, writing books.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, why should I, why should I write?
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, look at all these books that are out there.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Look at all these people that are doing what they're doing and and they have this following and that I don't have that.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: And God's like, who cares?
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have asked you to do this assignment because this is who you are.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: It's like I have to get slapped around.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, wake up, wake up from my slumber.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that I now that you bring that up, thank you.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you for the slave.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: But it does it.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even put two and two together that the envy or the desire to have somebody else's traits or be more like them actually sabotages me just fully being myself.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love it.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: I love the raw honest.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I think that's oftentimes the motivating uh piece.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily marriage or other externals, but it's the relational piece, whether it be with their child or with their friends, that type fours will seek out the coaching and go, I need some help because I feel stuck.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And it often is tied into some of this cycle and self sabotaging.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And then also in a same way, the nine can lose themselves because they merge a four.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: has this rustle of they want to be authentic, but they also so badly want to fit in.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to discern who really am I and and who do I really want to be.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: And will they love me for me if I really show them who I am.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, that's so insightful.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why too even scoring like with the nine.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: And when I read the nine too, that was interesting for me as well.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: But as I read through it, I went, you know, I can see that part of myself where I would merge with the other numbers to like to fit.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And then when I read the four, I went, no, this is more what it is, but I can see how that would be something that could be even maybe mistyped.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Would that be true?
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's totally true.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's merging for different reasons.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: All of us have the same temptations.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: All of us maybe have the same behavior patterns, but it's the why behind it.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: It's the motivation, it's the desire to do that action in order to obtain something specific that we're looking for.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: So it takes work, it takes intentionality.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And as you've really emphasized here and we've expanded on it takes the self-awareness, which is not for the faint of heart, but can produce really good fruit.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: It's not and I know I kind of already said it, but I'll touch on it again.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: The reason why I have personally found why self and self-awareness and doing the work on your end is really important is if we don't, then we show up to any relationship.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Unspoken expectations and we all have unmet needs.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: And some people are put in our world to meet different needs.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with that appropriately.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: But if we are not healthy, we will have expectations of people that they can never meet.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: I think that's why that self-awareness is so key and us being able to own it and do the work and realize we are the common denominator in every relationship we're in.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: And that's where we can do the work so we can't control a single person.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: You've given us some snippets of like chapter one, chapter two.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Could you give us uh just an overall picture of the book of just how you laid it out and how you would hope or how you envisioned women kind of walking through the material and and maybe even applying it.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: So I had a lot of fun with this book and I would love to even share this I I just feel like I am supposed to is the way that I even get a book is they'll just be like this download and I'll see the chapters in order.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, it's really beautiful.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, oh my gosh, this makes sense.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: This I mean that's how I like it makes sense the progression.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: And so really what I felt is as I looked at and started to pull it apart is I saw that part one, there's two parts to the book.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Part one is called facing yourself.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: So we've kind of gone there.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: We've done that.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: You got to face yourself.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: We're not going to start out with a list of all these friends that you need to make amends with there that's we're starting with our ourselves.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Part one is facing yourself.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: And then part two is uncomplicating all the things.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's about intentionality in uncomplicating your relationships in different ways.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Throughout I have these reflection points as well.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: So they're not like it does come across a little bit more creative, but it's because some parts are so needy and like I say when you open this like we just go straight for open heart surgery.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: That's what we do.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: If you are ready for that get this book if you're not don't get it yet because we're just going to go to those issues.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: And so what I love to do through the chapters is like I said, they're not necessarily at the end, but when there's a moment that we need to pause and reflect and actually apply and put that throughout the book as well.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean I start with the woman wound and I would love to share on why really quickly I did yeah and actually I wanted to go back there because I too spent uh it was almost a year with a group of women about the motherlessness because we talk about fatherlessness but the mother wound I'll tell you what so I'm like girl let's talk about that yeah so I realized I mean all of us exist because we have a mother and we all have a relationship with her or lack thereof or unhealthy healthy there's multiple variations of that.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: So what I realized in the beginning of ownership was the lens that I had towards other women just due to the first woman who had the power to hurt me.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm a mother of four and realize I have so much grace as a mother now.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: But also understanding so I really tried to write that chapter gracefully and honoring my mother and she wrote part of the chapter actually.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow that's awesome.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Which was really cool because we have this beautiful restored relationship.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: But growing up I now know my parents' story I didn't obviously as a child but they were walking through some of the most radically difficult things I've ever heard of.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: The fact that they're still married is a miracle but from a young age I became my mom's emotional mother.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I she would unload on me from the time I can remember talking about her marriage, talking about things that were completely inappropriate for me to carry, understand, know.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, that's where I learned codependency.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: So I learned like to merge with somebody else and go, oh I'll take care of that like I'll step in be the mother even though I'm not supposed to be my needs weren't met.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So I was meeting her needs fast forward I'm ruining all my friendships because that's I'm doing the same thing.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: That's why we start there is to look at to just be aware like is there anything that is maybe coloring the lens of the way that I look at live in my relationships and my female friendships.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: But yes, we do a lot of work with the father wounds and all of those sorts of things but we all had mothers too.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I think being able to walk in healing not throwing blame but going oh that was an unmet need for me as a child and gosh am I trying to meet that need somewhere else in unhealthy ways.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I started there.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean that really is what I discovered is that 80% of women are walking around with abandonment from their moms, whether it was emotional, physical or spiritual and some couldn't help be helped.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, a lot of times when we take time to explore that we begin to realize they just couldn't and they had all these obstacles against them.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not about blame shifting it's about understanding and then getting the healing for those wounds that are there because they're there whether we want to acknowledge it or not.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: They're there whether you know we blame somebody or not it's it's really just being attentive to those pieces of our story that are I mean they're it's just huge.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Ignoring it is going to serve nobody.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I I start there you know like I hit on a lot of topics in that first half.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: So we talk about navigating betrayal and I think the thing is is like we have to understand that we have not navigated our last betrayal.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: So therefore we have to get good at it.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: And it actually has to do with our heart posture and forgiveness and letting go of offenses all of those things that we love to read the scriptures of but to actually be a Christian and walk in the way of Jesus when we're navigating betrayals nothing we really want to do so that's the start of it.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: But really the pinnacle and the very end of the book is called becoming spiritual midwives.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: The reason why I talk about the midwives that birthed Moses and they had this plan for life in the middle of death and they did the right thing and um they they birthed the deliverer.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: But I look at this as a type and shadow for us as women that we are not each other's competition.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: But when we can deal with ourselves, when we can walk in healing and wholeness, then we can look to another woman and see what's in her and go, I want to help birth the dream that's within you so that we can all walk in on mission together and fulfill the great commission in our spheres of influence.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And then it becomes our greatest joy to not just think about ourselves and constantly being getting healing for ourselves but we're like, I want to do this for everyone.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: I want to birth the dreams of everyone so that's the progression of the book is that we walk through this journey together where we walk in healing and then we start to be intentional in building relationships because really truly us walking together and doing that and birthing the dreams of one another we're the body of Christ 1 Corinthians 12 it's like talking about how we need the hand and the feet and you know every single part of the body and we have to do our share together.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to be like everybody needs to be a hand.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't need everyone to be a hand.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: I want the men to be who they're called to be so we can operate together well.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: This is so so good.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: I guess I would say at this point, I mean we covered so much and there's more than like I want to keep talking but uh I'm pretty sure my friends are going to be putting that book in their Amazon card and uh I'm getting it but is there any like one last thing or or maybe there's a few small things that you would just encourage us today as we're pursuing this journey of strengthening our friendships and really giving some time and attention to that area of our life.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Well I think what I want to do is just acknowledge that I know everybody that's listening has we've all walked through relational pain.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: There's no escaping that.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: And we all have a tendency when it comes to relational pain.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: We all have a way that we self-protect we all have a way that we we stop that from happening again.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: I talk uh in the self-preservation chapter I talk about how self-preservation is willfully choosing the pain of isolation over the potential of messy godly connection.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: I think if we can understand there's pain either way the pain of isolation and you can be in a crowd of people you can be in a community group you can be in a life group you can be in a Bible study book study and you can still be self-protecting and alone.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: The point is my prayer for everyone that gets this book and walks through it is that they will be brave enough to step into healing but then brave enough to go again and try again and rebuild that which has been broken, make amends where they need to make amends, let go where they need to let go and start building something new and do something that feels very brave after we've walked through the last couple of years and a lot of people have social anxiety even the seventh yep absolutely so I think that that's my hope is that people just feel like okay I'm going to do this even though I'm a little bit scared and that God will just begin to do beautiful things in their relationships around them.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: That's my hope.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: So good Andy thank you so much for sharing today I know you have blessed so many people thank you.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for having me.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: This has been really fun and thanks for the coaching well I'm curious as you listened did names or faces of friendships come to mind for you?
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Well I would love to encourage you that you would chat with the Lord and ask him what he would like you to do with those relationships.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Is there someone you might need to apologize to?
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Is there someone you need to extend grace for their imperfections?
33:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you just need to send a text or a direct message on social media.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe maybe there's a need to let go of and remove someone from your life.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear what your takeaway was from this episode on friendship.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: I know it's a hot topic and as I mentioned it's a conversation I'm having with a lot of my clients and of women that I'm mentoring and encountering and talking to every day.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: You can email me or direct message me.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I would really love to hear from you.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: You can find me on Instagram at wholehearted Enneagram or email me at wholeheartedeneagram at gmail.com as you go about the rest of your day speak truth over yourself.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: You can say things like I am the right mom for this job.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: That is a powerful and truthful statement.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: It is true that what we hear often we start to believe scripture is clear about the power of our tongues.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: So I want to encourage you to intentionally speak life giving and empowering statements to yourself.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Until next week friend continue to take time to pause and pursue God's perspective purpose and plans for your day, week month and year