Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 453: How to Build a Screenwriting Career That Actually Lasts with Bob Saenz

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BPS 453: How to Build a Screenwriting Career That Actually Lasts with Bob Saenz · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four fifty three.
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  Speaker 2: Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
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  Speaker 1: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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  Speaker 1: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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  Speaker 1: screenplay bulletproof.
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  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: In this episode, I have with me a actor and
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: screenwriter who has written big budget feature films. He's written
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: indie films, he has pitched a Hallmark and he has
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: also acted in indie films. And he's also acted in
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: David Vincher Zodiac, which I didn't even know as we
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: find out about this during this interview. He did the
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: voice of a video game that I loved as a kid,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Safe and Filter. Does anybody remember Safe and Filter? He
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: was the voice of the bad guy. I didn't even
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: realize into us all as IMDb. I played the hell
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: out of that game as a kid growing up, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: we talk all about that as well with guest Bob Signs,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Hey Bob, thanks a lot for coming on the show.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: You're welcome you know again, you're.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Person I've actually want to have on here for a while.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: The you know, the reason being, you're a working screenwriter.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: You're out there actually doing it. You're always posting great advice.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: So you know, I wanted to ask about your whole career.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: And there's one thing I have to ask about right
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: off the bat. I see on here on your in
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: your acting credits. Actually, so when I'm gonna talk about writing,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: you actually did voices for the game Safe and Filter
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: and Safe and Filter three.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I did voices really for all the Sife and Filter games.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: I was the main bad guy. I was the man
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: in the shadows.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Oh that's it, Bob, I'm blown away. I think we
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: have to end the whole conversation right now. I don't
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: think we can pee on this.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I sat in the Sony studios in Foster City, California
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: with a big gold microphone and did that deep low
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: voice for that guy who was the Senate who ended
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: up being the Senator who was also the man in
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: the Shadows. It was really fun, And what was great
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: about it is they actually paid me extra to stay
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: an hour and make death sounds for people who got
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: shot and got lit on fire and fell off clips
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: and stuff.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: You know, it's just funny because I remember playing Siphon
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Filter in Uh when did that come out two thousand?
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I think, oh, maybe, yeah, I remember playing that, and
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: I just now it just it is amazing how small
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: this world has become, because now I remember, I can
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: remember everything about that first game, especially that first game,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: and the fact that I saw on your IMDb that
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: you did voices for it. I was like, I got
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: to talk to Bob about this. I just have to.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: I still get every once in a while the random
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: email from somebody who was a Seife fielder fan and
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: there's actually some Siphon Filder you know, group that gets
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: together and plays or something and they have a magazine
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: or something and had me wanted to interview me before,
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: and it was it was really funny. It's it's like
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: the video game that wouldn't die.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's just a testament to how popular the
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: game was, because again that first one especially, I always
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: remember that first one was just phenomenal, and I remember
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: playing that and just being blown away. Actually I remember
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: it coming. You know what, the first time I heard
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: about it, I ordered a pizza from Pizza hut and
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: they had a free disc glued to the top of
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: the box for the original PlayStation and I actually remember
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: it going, oh, wow, this is pretty cool, and I
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: popped it in and that's how I played for the
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: first time.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: I've never heard that before. This is pretty cool.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's actually yeah.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Wow, yeah, no, it's It was a fun It was
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: a fun gig, and it was really in The people
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: were so nice, the guys that produced the game, the
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: guy was the voice director, the whole the whole thing
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: was just first class and it was really fun.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: So, Bob, just to sort of continue with this, you
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: know when you moved out to la it was one
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: of your originals.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: I don't. Well, let's get let's get something really straight.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: I don't live in.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: La Oh you don't. Where do you live?
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Don't I live in San Francisco? I have, I have.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: I have had this career totally out of l A.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: So so let me ask you, Bob, are the rents
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: is been in in in San Francisco as bad as
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: they say?
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, I'm my my. They're worse up here than
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: they are in lap Here is like the the worst
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: rents I think in the country, except for like Manhattan.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: The My daughter has a friend who has a two
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: bedroom apartment in Mountain View, right near Google. That's like
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: forty two hundred dollars a month.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Wow, you know, I mean, I just I have a
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: friend who also lives out there. He was actually on
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: this podcast episode four, I think David Heule, and he
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: lives out in San Francisco. And I mean he and
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: I were talking one day and he was just saying
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: how bad the rents were out there in San Francisco.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: So more power to you, Bob, More powate you because
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: you're actually, you know, living in you know, in making
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: your career.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm very fortunate I have a house. So it
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: it That's part of the reason I don't also go
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: to l A. I also don't go to la because
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: I'm happy where I am and I'm four hours away
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: and I've never missed an appointment, and and I can
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: come up here and work out of my house and
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: go down there when I have to.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: So do you just plan like a long drive that day?
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Do you just take just pull, get in your car
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: and there.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: I leave at five in the morning, I get there
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: about at the latest about ten thirty in the morning,
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: and I can get a whole lot of work done.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: And I usually stay for four or five days. This
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: time I stayed for five days. Last time, I sleep
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: for five days because I had a bunch of meetings
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: and then we had two days of shooting of pickups
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: and and and VFX and EFX on one of my movies.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Oh that's good. And again it's cool you live so close.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: And because I've always wondered, you know, if you if
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: you do live semi close to LA like you do, you,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: how do you actually get out there? Because sometimes I've
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: heard people say, listen, I get in with a bunch
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: of other people. We all go down, you know, they
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: or they do something other, some other means of transportation
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: to get there. But you know, it's just good that
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: you live so close and so sort of taking step back.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: The reason I was asking this was when you decided
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: to move out to California, you know, because you were
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: now you're in San Francisco. You know, did you go
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: out there with the original goal of being an actor?
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Oh? I was born in California, so I've always been here.
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: But I've always wanted to be an actor from when
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: I was a little kid, and I was From the
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: time I was about sixteen years old, I was doing
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: like professional plays and musicals around San Francisco in the
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: Bay Area and was in the midst of a long
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: run in a show called The Fantastics when I met
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: my wife, and it was one of those things where
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: you say, do I want to spend the rest of
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: my life with this woman or do I want to
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: be a poor actor? And I decided I would spend
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: the rest of my life with my wife. We've been
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: married forty two years. And so when I was about
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: four years old, after I had worked in a real job,
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: but a good job, but a real job, I went
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: to her and said, you know what, we got money
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: in the bank, and it looks like the company I'm
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: working for is not going to be around much longer
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: because they've been bought by somebody else and they're screwing them.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: I think I want to be an actor again. And
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: when I picked her up off the floor, she said okay,
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: and I decided. Then people told me you can't do it.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: You're you're not You're living San Francisco. You can't be
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: a professional actor at your age. You can't you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: you can't just change and I said why not? And
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: I've spent my life saying why not to people, So
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: it all worked. I got my sag card in a
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: movie called Angels in the Outfield with one line try
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: throwing it over the plate. And I just marketed myself and.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: We'll be right.
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: Back after a word from our sponsor, and now back
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: to the show.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: And was relentless in my pursuit and ended up with
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: a with a recurring, very very very small recurring role
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: on a TV series that's TV series that shot up
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: here called Nash Bridges with Don Johnson and Cheech Maren.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: And I used my time my six years on that
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: TV show to work on my writing and get it
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: out to some of the producers on that show. And
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: it kind of all snowballed from there.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: So when you were reading the script for Nash Bridges,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: like each week, you know you would get the script
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: for the latest episode, would you sort of analyze it
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: in different ways, Bob, Like would you sort of put
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: on like a writer's hat and say, you know, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: wonder how.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: I would I said to myself, I can write better
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: than this crab and and and which was funny because
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: guys like Damon Lindloff were writing for Nash at the time.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: But but I I wrote an episode in Nash. That's
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: what I did, and they did buy it. But I
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: got a lot of encouragements from some people, and that
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: what's that's what spurred me on to write my first
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: Speck feature, which I optioned. So it's, uh, it's been
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: a weird trip. You know.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: That kind of reminds me of Mike Beerman when I
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: when I had him on the show a few episodes ago.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: You know, he actually said when he took his daughter
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: out to those auditions, he actually got the script and said, hell,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: I can write better than this. And you know, we're
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: both a part of that of that writer's group on Facebook.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: But it just it's just funny to me because you know, whenever,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: because I mean, I said the same thing to myself. Honestly, Bob,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I've said to myself, Hey, I can write or make
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: a movie better than this, and that's sort of what
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: sparked it. And then I got then it was proved
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: to me, was oh no I can't. I just sort
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: of but no, I'm just joking around.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: But what's funny. What's funny about the whole thing was
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: is I've been a lot of movies, and I've I've
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: done a lot of just small parts and things. But
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: I've really enjoyed myself. And there are a lot of
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: movies I've been in that aren't even on the IMDb thing.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: I don't even I don't add things to IMDb. If
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: if they're on there, it's not because I put them there,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: it's because somebody else did. But I've been a lot
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: of movies and I've done, you know, some some pretty
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: fun acting jobs. But I found out as I started
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: writing that I was a way better writer than I
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: was an actor. I have a very small range right now,
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: I'm holding my hands about three inches apart, and that's
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: you know, that's basically my range as an actor. And
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: so I found out I was a much better writer.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: So I'm enjoying that a lot more. So.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: I have to ask when you were on the set
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: of Nash Bridges. Was Don Johnson a cool as cool
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: of a guy as he seems?
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Don Johnson has a reputation and some times I think
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: unfairly of being I'm not great guy. And all I
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: can do is all I can go by is my
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: personal experiences with him, and he was terrific to me,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: completely terrific to me. And I was there for six
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: years and couldn't have been treated better. I came away
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: from that show with a lot of really good lifelong friends,
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: including you know, we don't talk now, but including Don.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: If I ran into him, I'm sure we would be
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: just fine. It was great experience. I was glad it
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: was over after six years because I wanted to move
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: on and do some writing. But it was a great experience.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't have traded for anything. I called it the
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Don Johnson Film School. I learned everything I could learn
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: on that set. It was great.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I like that name, Bob, the Don Johnson Film School.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: I like that a lot. That seems like a hell
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: of a film school.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: It was. It was great. I went to him, I
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: think in the second season, and I said, look, I
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: want to learn everything I can about how this is
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: all done. So when I'm not working but i'm here,
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: can I hang around on set and watch and see
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: how each department does what they do? And he made
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: a little flann of the cross and said, bless you,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: of course you can, and and said that's how I learned.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: So I did. I at one point I learned about
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: why they used you know, which lens they use. And
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: I got to carry around the steady cam one afternoon,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: and I learned from the sound guys, one of the
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: great sound guys ever. And I learned about lighting and
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: what the grips do and electrical and you name it.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: I just and props and everybody. I got to know
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: and learned from them how they did what they did.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: It was an unbelievably great experience and it's really helped
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: me as a writer.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: And that's something I wanted to actually follow up with Bob,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: is when you're on set like that and you know
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: you're you're you're, you know, seeing everything through the lens
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: of an actor. How has that helped your writing when
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: you're writing characters.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: Oh, a ton, It helps a ton, because I've I've
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: been on the other side of getting scripts where people
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: don't sound real like you get dialogue but you know
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: was written without anybody ever saying it out loud, and
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: and you you know, it's It's helped me not as
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: much with character, because I'm I really love to develop
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: character in my my scripts, but it's helped me a
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: lot with dialogue, a lot in having dialogue sound as
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: real and natural as it can be. It also helped by,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: you know, by learning how to do position rather than
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: you know, having you know, on the nose dialogue drives
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: me nuts. So it's it's it's really it did. Did
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: you'd answer your question? Yes?
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: That so because you know, I imagine when you're when
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: you're actually sitting down and actually writing a screenplay and
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: you're fleshing out these characters. I you know, we all
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: sort of imagine an actor playing that role. Uh, And
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: I imagine you when you're when you're writing this that
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: you're probably saying, well, what is the actor going to
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: be doing while they're saying this stuff? Should they be
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: sitting there? Hopefully this isn't sort of like what they
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: call a floating head scene, you know what I mean,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: there's I'm sure because you're you know, you have that
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: acting background, you could sort of take that a step
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: further and say, well, you know, I I know what
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: actors are going to say in the in a scene
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: like this. They want to be moving around or or
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: they want to be doing something.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: I do it Really it sounds so fun, It's gonna
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: sound really funny, But I don't think about actors all,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: when I write, I think about servicing the story. To me,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: everything is about story. I've talked to so many producers
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: and worked with so many people now, after all the
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: movies that I have been more than fortunate enough to
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: have produced, that the only thing that matters, especially in
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: a spec script is story. They want to know if
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: they've got a serviceable story that people are going to
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: want to see, And that's when I write as back,
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something that
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: services the story. Yes, if the character in that story
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: needs to move around during a scene rather than just sit, yes,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: And I think about those things absolutely. What would the
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: character be doing in this situation? They're not going to
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: be yeah, floating heads. Absolutely. But I'm a really, really
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: story guy, and I never think of I never imagine
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: any actor playing a role. I want to write roles
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: that actors want to play, and that that to me,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: is more important.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: So so, Bob, when you actually started to write your
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: own screenplays, did you grab any sort of books or
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: anything that to sort of use as like a sort
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: of a guide or anything when you when you when
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: you started writing.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: No, I didn't. I've never read a screenwriting book. I
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: know it's an announcement of most people, and they think, wow.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I read lots of scripts, and I looked for scripts
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: for for films that I loved and thought, how did
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: they do it? I read anybody's friends and neighbors or
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: whoever had a script, and read scripts to look at
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: and and most of them were bad. And looked at
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: bad scripts and thought, how can I keep from doing
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: some of these things? And I just wrote. The Only
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: thing I did was get myself a copy of final
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: drafts and to so that the so that the formatting
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: was correct. But otherwise, no, I didn't. I didn't read
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: any screenwriting books.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Well that's amazing, because usually, you know, you do you
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: do something like you go out maybe buy uh, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: you know the big three that people usually buy.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: You know, well, yes, Infield and and the the the Awful,
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Save the Cat and and whatever else you know, the
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: Hero's Journey, I guess. And and no I didn't. But
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: I've seen Save the Cat wreck more scripts than you
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: can imagine.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So so actually you know that that's actually
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: interesting because you know, whenever I'm in a screenwriters group
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: and somebody brings up like the Hero's Journey this or
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: save the cat or what have you. I usually tell
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: them just to sort of put that aside, because I,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: just like you said, it usually wrecks a lot more scripts.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: The reason being is they're always trying to force these
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: things to happen that aren't organically there, if you know
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: what I mean.
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Well, like I said before about story, when you do that,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: you can't service your story. You cannot. You can't make
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: a story fit into a preconceived box, especially a good story.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: We could talk about, you know, some later on some
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: of the things later that where I've completely ignored story stories,
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: story rules, supposed story rules and written some scripts that
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to write even though they broke you know,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: a ton of the story rules and those you know.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: The one of those scripts is the script that got
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: me noticed, knowlledg. I broke almost every single supposed story
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: rule going and I didn't do it on purpose. I
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: just wrote a script that I wanted to see.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: So let's talk about that, Bob. You know, you broke
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: every rule. You know, what was the script and what
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: were a lot of these rules that you broke.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's called extracurricular activity. It just we just finished
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: filming the effects sequences this last weekend. It should be
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: out in the fall, maybe, I think. And uh, and
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: it's it was a dream come true for me because
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: it was one of my favorite scripts I ever wrote.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: And the director and I, well not it didn't matter
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: what I thought, but the director pretty much saw it
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: for what I saw it for and wanted to have
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: it be basically what I had originally written, you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: eighteen years ago. So it's it's been kind of like
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: one of those dream come true deals. So, and how
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: did I break rules? Okay, the inciting incident happens, you know,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: forty pages before the movie starts. The main character, the protagonist, Well,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: you don't even know who the protagonist is most of
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: the movie. It could be one guy, it could be
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: another guy, but they both could be the antagonist, you
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: don't know. And and uh, the the main character, who
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: you don't know if is the antagonist or the protagonist
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: has no arc.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I could see that definitely breaking. That's seeing
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: what rules that broke? You know, it reminds me to Bob.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of like, what what Tarantino did
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: with reservoir dogs, what uh Sean Shane Black did with
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: lethal weapon. It was almost like, you know, I by
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: the way, I loved I actually love to read the script,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: not only see them more.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: No, when when we get when we get done, give
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: me your your email.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Also, Oh cool, thank you. I'm always interested in seeing
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: you again. Like like you were just mentioning, it sort
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: of broke all the rules, but you use it as
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: sort of you use the break in, which I always
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: think is great because I think what happens is a
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: lot of these screenwriters write with all these rules and
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: maybe to certain ways, and they don't make this script theirs.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: So what happens is they keep It's almost like imagine
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: if ninety nine screenwriters all were writing almost the same
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: thing with the same description, and that one other person
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: actually follows their own voice and maybe it's a little
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: off the wall and it doesn't adhere to these formatting
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like this whole description thing,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it's like, wow, look at
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: this and it's so different from the pack all because
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: they just you know, didn't go too crazy, but they
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: were able to differentiate different entry. It themselves.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Well, I went pretty crazy. But the thing about it
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: was is that I never let anybody tell me you
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: have to do something some way. My answer is again,
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: always want why not? And I wanted to write something
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: that was you know, that was me and that was different,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: that was something that I thought might get the interest
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: of some people. When it did, it's it's literally even
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: though it is what I would consider to be and well,
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: well not what I would consider to be as much.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: I had somebody who was one of the Hallmark producer
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: read it and tell me it was the anti Hallmark film,
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: and which I call pretty good about. But she liked
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: it so much that she hired me to write a
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Hallmark film. So you know, you just never know where
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: where something you know one of your samples is going
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: to lead you.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true. And and speaking of writing for Hallmark,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: you know you've actually had written a few movies for them.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: Oh yes, I have, I have, I have up to
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: right now, I have three Christmas movies for them. I'm
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: probably will have a fourth this year, we'll see. I've
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: got a couple of other films for them and I'm
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: writing one right now. So they've been great. That They've
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: been terrific to me. And the Hallmark doesn't produce any films.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: There are a bunch of feeder production companies that feed
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: Hallmarks gigantic appetite for films, and I've worked for a
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: few of them and it's been it's been really a
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: joy to work with some of these wonderful production companies
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: and wonderful people, and work with the Hallmark people who
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: are terrifically nice. And it's you know, they have a brand,
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: and within that brand and within the rules for those brands,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: you know, you have to color between the lines. And
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: if you learn how to do that and still tell
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: a good story, you know they want to work with you.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: So about that's actually my next question was when when
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: you're writing for Hallmark, do they let you come in
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: and pitch your own ideas or do they maybe have
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: something they want you to work on already.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: Now they let you pitch your own idea, well they don't.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: The production companies let you pitch your own ideas, Yeah,
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: and then they pitch your ideas to Hallmark. And if Hallmark,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: you know, goes for one, then you know they come
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: back and and you write it or are you will
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: you write write us back for them. And I've also
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: gotten jobs where they came production companies came to me
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: and said, here's our idea, we want to hire you
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: to write it. So they've come all different ways.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: And again that that's the power of networking, and it's
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: you know, obviously, you know you've been able to use
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: all these scripts as calling cards, and again, you have
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: such a great reputation you're able to sort of parlay
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: that in other work. Which is something that we usually
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: talked about on this podcast is how your network is
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: your net worth and basically how you're able to sort
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: of use your network by doing good work is really
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: critical of your success.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Networking is a really really interesting thing, and I do
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: it because I like people and I like to I
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: like you know, it's it's fun to it's fun to
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: network and find new friends. But networking isn't about finding
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: somebody in the industry and saying, now, what can you
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: do for me? Networking is all about building relationships that
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: are true. That you meet people and you and you
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: get to know people and you and you build relationships
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: where you actually like each other. I have a lot
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: of great friends that I also work with that that
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: if they you know that we can be honest with
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: each other and work together and with great relationships. And
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: it's easier to be nice than it is to be
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: not nice. Not being not nice takes a lot of work.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: And I like people, and I like to work with people.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: And the best writers, you'll always notice that work over
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: and over again, are the ones that know how to cooperate,
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: understand the business, understand that everything they write is going
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: to get rewritten no matter what, and work with the
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: people and learn from the people that they're dealing with.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: It's so easy to get jaded, and it's so easy
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: to get upset about all the rejections that you get
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: when you're in this, because I've had millions of them.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: But you get to a point where you also realize
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: that the rejection isn't personal, that they don't they're not
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: doing it because they want to get back at you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: They're doing it for a million other reasons that you
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: have no control over. So you have to You have
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: to set yourself up in a business where that business
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: the business is you, and your scripts are like your inventory,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: and you have to sell you and the only way
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: you can do that is being nice and cooperative. And
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: a good person, and it makes it makes a huge difference.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: So that that sort of you know, mythos so to
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: speak of the screenwriter who is it's almost like a
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: rambling alcoholic or something and going into meetings and and
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: just sort of making demands. Those days are far over
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: read Bob oh or the idea.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: There's there's a million scripts out there, and I'm not kidding.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: I mean there's a million scripts out there, and there
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: are thousands and thousands of screenwriters who want to be
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: want to do this. And yes, if somebody is like
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: uber talented, you know, they may put up with them
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: for a while while they are successful.
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: But you know they stop being successful and their phone
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: stop ringing because they're not easy to work with. Nobody
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: wants to work with with with people who aren't easy
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: to work with, and and you just you just learn
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: to you know, learn to it. You just be the
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: you treat people the way you want to be treated,
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: and it makes a huge difference.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I can curve Bob. And you know, there was
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: a friend of mine when he does a lot of
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: film work, both as like a producer and a director
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: and something he instituted finally when he was doing a
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: lot of like indie film and by indie film, you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: i'll just classify that. I'm gonna throw a number out there,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: one hundred thousand and under. Now, obviously I'm just throwing
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: a number out there, but it's basically he would always
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: be astonished when like first time actors or first time
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: writers would show up and they'd have an ego and
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: he never got it because they haven't done anything. How
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: do you even know what if you're good or not?
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: You basically you know. And so what you do is
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: he actually made a role no egos, and he would
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: send that message.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Bob, that's a great rule.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: And well, I agree completely because one of the things
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: I said to him was that is such a great
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: idea because what he says is in a very nice way,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: he tells everybody, Look, we all have had various successes
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: and failures in this industry. Some of us have worked
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: in this industry for ten fifteen years. Some people have
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: just started working in this industry last week. So let's
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: just all sort of, you know, leave all that at
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: the door and just focus on this project right now,
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: for better or worse.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, and it's yes. And what's so interesting about it
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: is I had really early success with my writing. I
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: optioned the first script I ever wrote to a studio,
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: and boy, my ego went out of bounds. It was
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: out of control and it was I regret it like crazy,
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: because I think I really alienated some people who were
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: my friends at the time because I was just such
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: a jerk. And then the movie didn't get made, okay,
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: And which is you know, now that I find out
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: that ninety nine percent of all option films don't get made,
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: it makes sense that it didn't get made, because it's
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: you know, if you're that lucky one percent, that's great.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: But but at the time, it was just like this
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: huge slap in the face and an unbelievable lesson to
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: me that to never do anything like that again. And
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: I'm kind of grateful now that it didn't happen at
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: the time, because I could have been a real jerk
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: and I just it was a really, really sober experience,
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: But I can imagine, though, you know, Bob, when you
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: have such success so quickly, it was almost intoxicating, you
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: know what. I mean, it's almost like almost a validation.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: Oh, it was a validation. I mean, it still was
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: a validation that I could write, but it was you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: I hate to say this, it was like too soon.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: It was like three months after I wrote my first
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: spec script. It ended up at PolyGram, the PolyGram Studios
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: to get made. And only because Universal and MCA bought
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: PolyGram Corporation for their music catalog and then canceled their
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: movie business and dumped all their projects that I got
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: it back. It wasn't honest way to get made. And
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: it was just this unbelievable shock of this happening that
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: kind of jolded me back to reality and out of
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: the the jerkiness stupor I was in.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because again I was just imagining, you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: especially when when you get success that quickly.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: You know, have you ever seen the movie Overnight, that's
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: a documentary about Troy Duffy.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Yes, I have. I did, and it's it's painful to watch.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, especially with everything that you hear about the Weinsteins.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: But they in that film look like the good guys
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: because they gave that guy everything and he just pissed
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: it all away.
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: Yep. He did, and it was it was it was
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: the Yeah, I didn't quite get that bad, No, I didn't.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: I didn't get to that point. But but yeah, it's
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: a you know, it's a it's a movie that that.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: There's a couple of movies about making movies that everyone
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: should watch much. What one of them is that one.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: The other one is a movie that I absolutely love
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: called American Movie. Have you seen that?
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: You know, A couple of listeners keep telling me to
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: watch it.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: I have not seen it yet, that you need to
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: watch that. It's about a guy making an ultra low
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: budget film. It's a terrific film.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: You know. I'm going to make sure to rent that
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: right now after we're off the phone, Bob, I'm going
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: to make sure to go either rent that or bite
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: off Amazon.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: It's a great documentary, just this. I actually it's one
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: of the few documentaries that I own, so it's it's
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: well worth it.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm definitely gonna check that out. And I've
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: you know, an overnight as we were talking about that's it.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: That's another great one. And there's always that that joke
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: about making a movie because it for for those of
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: the for those who've actually done it actually going through
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: the stake of making a movie. They there's a whole
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: other level of enjoyment because you're like, I've been at that.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: There's production meetings where tempers are flaring, or I've been
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: at that point where you're so frustrated you go, why
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: the hell did I start this in the first place.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: Well, everybody's got to live through a first movie. And
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: that's the truth. I mean, if you're a director or
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: a producer or something, you have to live through that
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: first movie and see all those mistakes that you make.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: First movies are like you know, in the most part,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: first scripts, they're they're mostly two to teach you a
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: lesson and not you know, go much further than that.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh you know that that's that's you know.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Another thing I always talk about too is meet how
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: you make a movie and uh always you know, I
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: don't mean this way it sounds, but always tell people
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: to aim low for their first movie because they you know,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: you tell somebody you may go make a movie, and
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: suddenly they want a movie with ten million dollars of
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: stunts and explosions. You're like, no, no, no, they thinks smaller.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: So you can actually get accomplished.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: Well. Yeah, there's the thing about movies nowadays, and it's
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: really sad, I think, is the mid budget movie has disappeared.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: There are movies that that the studios make that are
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: one hundred and two hundred million dollars, and then there's
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: the five million dollars movie and lower, and there's not
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: a whole heck of a lot in between. And there's
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: about six six entities that can make the two hundred
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: million dollar movies, and there's tons of producers that can
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: make the five million dollar movies. And yet people, the
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: new writers insist on writing these great, big budget things
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: that that there's no market for. There's zero market for.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: Last year, somebody was telling me this. I'm not sure
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: that this is completely true, but last year they said
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, Disney didn't buy one spec script.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I could definitely see that.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's that's the way it is right now. So
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: if you're going to write a first movie, write it
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: five million dollars or less.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I concur you know, And as we talked about
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Disney and buying all these spec scripts, you know I've
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: seen that before too, where you know, it's uh, I
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: was listening to a interview actually with the Weinstein brothers,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: and they actually said the best way to make money
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: in the movie business is just have a whole library
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: of films, not make another one. But you're just selling
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: the licenses and the content rights for you know, temporarily
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: selling them, just renting them out. And that's how they
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: they would make a lot of money in the film industry.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: So when I hear stuff about like Disney like that,
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: you know, I imagine either they're pulling back from already established
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: properties and I think Beauty and the Beast.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, they're all they're making. Yeah, all they're making is
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: things that are in there. They're from their back catalog
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: or the Marvel which they own, or Star Wars, which
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: they owned, or Lucas which they own, and and then
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: they're using you know whatever else. You know, they made
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: Peach they remade Peach Dragon last year. They I mean,
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: it's just there. They have their they're going to do
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: their their ride movies like Parates of the Caribbean, and
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: they're going to and they're going to stay away from
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: trying to do anything that doesn't have an already established audience.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why again, like guys like us. You know,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: we like you're just saying, you know, the under five
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: million dollar budget. There's a lot more producers there. And
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: you know also as we talk about you know, Netflix
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: and Hulu and all these other you know, distribution channels,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: there's a lot more ways to get your stuff out there.
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: But still Netflix and Hulu and Amazon, if they're doing
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: things with you know, buying films or making films, they're
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: all on that five million dollars or less category. I'm
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: not talking I'm not talking about the TV the series
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: that they that they end up buying, but those kinds
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: of things. But Netflix and Hulu and Amazon are also
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: buying ninety nine percent of what they buy from established writers, producers,
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: directors of production companies and people like that. When they
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: all first started, they were going to be open to
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: you know, all kinds of new people and found out
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: that most new scripts you know, are out of from
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: from unknown writers are pretty bad and had to regroup
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: and decide to do it the way the studios do
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: it through agents and production company in that way. So
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: it's it's not as open as as some people think
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: it is.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an extremely good point, Bob, because I think
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: you know, you're absolutely right, you know, because what happens
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: is when they do go out there and see all
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: these unknown writers. You know, maybe they're unknown for a reason,
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: maybe their scripts have never gotten better. For instance, I actually,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: you know, have known writers and they've written like ten eleven,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: twelve screenplays, and every single one of them, Bob, is
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: exactly the same as the one before it. And what
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: I mean by that is is literally it's the same
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: type of characters in the same type of situation, in
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: the same type of genre, and it's just the same
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: old The kids go in a house that's supposedly haunted
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: to prove it's not haunted, but it turns out it
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: is haunted, and they also dying one by one, and
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: that is that pretty much sums up all like ten
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: eleven of those scripts.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: When Amazon first got started, they had that let's be
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: open to everyone and let's find I think their idea
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: behind it was, let's try and get all the great
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: scripts that the studios miss. So they opened up to
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: everyone and they had they said, please send us your
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: stuff and we'll read it all and we'll be buying
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: from unknowns and they lost a million dollars on that
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: that deal and pretty much decided, Okay, this isn't the
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: way it works. We need to go to established producers
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: and production companies and writers and stuff. And they realized
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: that that having a an open submission policy left them
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: open to getting hundreds of thousands, hundreds of thousands of
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: scripts that they had to hire people to read.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: And most of those scripts probably were read before through
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: various you know, gateca keepers or maybe uh screen script consultants,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: packages and script consultants and stuff like that. And they
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: all got passes.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: You know. Uh so everybody, they all did, they all did.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: I can't I There may have been one or two
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: that the Amazon looked at and and did something with.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: But out of the couple of hundred thousand that they got,
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: that's not a you know, that's not a very good percentage.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's probably what less than one percent?
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's it's probably less than a tenth of a percent.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: You know. The The problem is is that is.
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: That that there are when you set up an open
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: submission like that, is you also set yourself up for
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: people who have unrealistic expectations that they figure once they
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: they are able to openly submit that, you know, they
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: can sit back and wait for the movie to get made.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: And this is a This is an industry, especially for writers.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: This is an industry of unbelievable patients. You have to
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: be so patient to try and be a screenwriter. It's
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: it's unbelievable that the average time between the time you
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: write a script and the time that it gets made,
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: if it does get made, is about eight years. Well
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: in the case of extracurricular activity, it was eighteen years.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: So you know it. There is no instant gratification in
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: this business. None. There are no shortcuts to get something done,
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: and there's no instant gratification. It is a long haul,
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: nose to the grindstone, thick skin business.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: And you know, I actually I wanted to ask you
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: too about that you mentioned nose of the grindstone. I
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: want to ask about your process, Bob, and how you
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: know you write screenplays. So when when you know you
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: wake up in the morning or if you have a
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: morning routine, what are some of the most important things
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: that you do before you start a screenplay? I mean,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: do you just start with a treatment, do you just
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: go right into it, you outline it all.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: I come up with a concept, and the concepts can
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: come from anywhere. I've gotten concept for my scripts from
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: something my kids said to me. I've gotten concepts from
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: my scripts with conversations with friends. I've gotten concepts by
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: reading an article in a newspaper or or you know,
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: just thinking about what if or seeing something when I'm
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: out somewhere and thinking, you know, what if, and and
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: coming up with concepts for for whatever I'm going to
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: write next, and and once I do that, if it's
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: a subject matter that I don't know anything about, one
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: of the first things I do is hands on research.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: I actually go out and find people that do what
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: I'm going to be writing about, and I ask them
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: about how they do it and what they do. I
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: don't go on with you know, on on Wikipedia and
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: on the internet or look at you know on the internet.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: I actually go out and find people. I've been I've
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: been on write alongs with cops. I've interviewed police chiefs.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: I've interviewed doctors. I've gone into hospitals, I've I've gone
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: I've done all kinds of things to get a good
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: idea about how things are done in the area I'm
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: going to write about, so that when I write it,
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: it has its basis in reality, even if I'm going
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: to write something that you know is completely out in
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: left field.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: So, Bob, how do you approach like people like, you know,
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: the police and the chief of police, how do you
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: actually approach them about maybe being able to sort of
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: to get them to open up talk.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: I call them and they say, Hi, I'm writing a
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: script about this and this and this, and I want
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: to get it right. And everybody says, finally somebody who
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: wants to get what we do right, and they open
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: up and talk to you. I was supposed to talk
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: to a police chief and a small town police chief
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: because I wrote something that had a small town police
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: chief police chief, and I wanted to get stories from
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: him and ideas from him and how it all works.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: And I was supposed to have twenty minutes with him,
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: and I ended up with almost two hours because we
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: were having such a good time and it was unbelievably
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: helpful in getting me to get a realistic idea of
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: all kinds of different things that ended up in the script. So, yeah, people,
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: you'd be surprised that people really want you to get
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: what they do right, so they will open up and
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: talk to you. Yes, I've had people say no, no,
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: I'm too busy, or no, that's ridiculous, but you know,
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: you can always find somebody.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: So you know, that's actually something that I've done too.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: Uh you know. Actually one of the things that I did, Bob,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: I want a courier one time and I actually just asked, Hey,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: is there any police officers that would want to talk
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: to me? And this is the reason why, and this
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: is what I'm doing. And I got like four or
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: five responses and I was able to talk to them,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know, it was it was amazing and
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: just you know, and that's that's what I did. I
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: didn't actually call up anybody in particular. I just put
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: that on courier.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: I think that's great. And you just do what you
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: have to do. You do, you know, you do, and
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: you might know somebody that knows somebody that does what
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: you're looking for. And it's just it's a matter of
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: just again networking and and finding out about things. And
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: then if you have you know, if you're doing your
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: your your you know, and then if I come up
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: against something that in the script that I that I
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: don't know about. I'll make an effort to find out
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: about it, not just make it up. I read a
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: script one time, unfortunately from another writer that took place
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: in a hospital, and when I finished reading it, I
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: called him and I said, have you ever been in
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: a hospital? Because nothing in this script would ever happen
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: in a hospital ever. And he said to me, but
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: it's a movie. And that was the end of our conversation.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: I just imagine the hospital fight from Machete where the
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: where you know, all the stuff's happening in the hospital.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: But then again, it's a movie, right yeah, but but
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: but you know, but that's of a movie and Machete.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: I went in expecting, you know, you know, so over
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: the top.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: You know so, I mean, I you probably can't go
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: into DP. But was it just like things like was
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: it a shootout?
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: Was it just uh no, it was just it was
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: it was they were comment during an operating room when
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: nobody was in there, which you couldn't possibly ever do.
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: It was it was just a lot of things like that.
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: It was just it was just ridiculous and and there
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: was It was just you know, you could have a
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: shootout in an operating room if you wanted to, that
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: would be fine, you know, but you have to portray
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: the operating room correctly and how they how they work.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: That's not Emmachette is great. I mean, that's that's Rodriguez
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: and that's Danny Trejo. And by the way, Danny Treo
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: is a great guy. But that's that's a whole nother thing.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: That's you suspend your belief something like that.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: So have you actually worked with with with Danny Treyo, Bob.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: I was on a TV series for six years called
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: Nash Bridges, where I, again like I had a really,
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: really really small part, but they had so many great
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: guest stars. I sat down with Robert Rodriguez one day
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: and picked his brain for about twenty thirty minutes. Treyo
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: was on and he was great. What a nice guy,
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: just a terrific guy. And I got to meet some
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: you know, I got to meet some really really fabulous
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: people and some people that to me were like icons.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: One of my favorite movies in the entire world is
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: The Producers and the guy that played Han Fleuke and
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: Kenneth Mars guested on Nash once and I got to
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: sit down with him and it was it was unbelievable.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: And James Hong from who played the you know, Low
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: Pan in Big Trouble Little China guest stars and I
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: got to tell him, you know, I'm not worthy, but
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: it was it was really, it was really an amazing experience.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Beyond that show was kind of Forrest Gumpy. I got
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: to you know, be there and and and meet and
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: see all this wonderful stuff.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: You can't see this, Bob, because it's a podcast. But
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: to my right on the on my right side wall,
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: here is a signed James hung headshot of him as
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: low Pan that I actually got a few years ago
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: at this event that he actually did here in Philadelphy Chinatown.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: It was at this meet and greet thing and he
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: was one of the he was the honored guest, and
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: I got to meet him and it was in He's
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: absolutely phenomenal.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just great. He's really funny and he's really
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: you know, I said. I walked up to him and
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: I said, hey, I gotta tell you something, and he
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: looked at me and went, low Pan, Huh.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: So it was you're right, yeah, you're your Cassandra's father
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: in Waynsworth too, And he goes, oh yeah, uh.
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: No, you never came never came out, no, no, yeah.
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: All I can think about is is Jack Burton going
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: with fire coming out of his mouth. And that was it.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: That was it for me.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: And see, that's such a great story, Bob, because I
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: mean I I've met him actually twice, and you know,
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: everyone who's always met him has always been like, wow,
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: he's just he is phenomenal. And when I met him,
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: he was right before Kung Fu Panded two or three,
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: I can't remember which one. But he actually showed a
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: little clip and he goes, he goes, listen everybody. He goes,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: you can't video this or I'm going to get beat
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: up by pixelar. He's like, Picture is going to come
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: to my house and have ducked to me. He goes,
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: so don't, you can't. You can't actually show this, And
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: it was just it was just funny because you know
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: the James Hung delivery of that line. So picture what
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: I just said as James Hang, and now it's funny.
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: Yes I can, I can Jack and completely picture. But anyway,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: he was great and he was fun on the show
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: and it was really wonderful to you know, sit down
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: and todd him. So I've had it's been it's been
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: a really kind of fun, you know, experience to be
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: an actor in doing these things I've I've worked with
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: some unbelievable directors I've worked with. I've been lucky enough
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: to work with Copola twice and as an actor, and
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: Ron Howard once, and Clint Eastwood twice and uh, David
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: Fincher once in an amazing experience. And I just it's
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: just been like kismet and thank you God, you know,
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: having me be able to have these experiences, because I
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: came away from them amazing happy and amazingly educated about
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: what I saw and took in.
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: So, what was that project that you worked on with Fincher?
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: I'm in Zodiac really yeah, in the uh I got
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: It's great. I got a letter from Warner Bros. Right
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: after I did it, and it said, you're in the movie.
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: Come down to the premiere. We can't wait to see you.
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: Looking forward to it. We'll give you the information when
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: we get it. And then a couple of weeks later,
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: I got a letter saying they cut eighteen minutes out
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: of the movie and your three minutes are in those
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: eighteen minutes, and thank you very much, and please don't
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: come to the premiere. So I thought, okay, well, I've
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: been cut out of you know, worst movies, and I
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: you know, it was one of those things you can't
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: take the experience away. But I was hoping. And then
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: I got a check, a residual check, and if you're
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: not in a movie, you shouldn't get a residual check.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: So I called my agent and I said, I got
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: a residual check, but I don't supposed to get it.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: I don't want to cash it. And she said hold on,
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: and she checked, and she came back and said, you're
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: in the director's cut, and you do get a residual check,
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: so go ahead and cash it. Then please send me
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: my ten percent. So I'm in the director's cut, so
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: I'm much. I put, no, it's now, don't watch that
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: two and a half three hour movie in the director's
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: cut again to look for two minuting me. But it
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: was fun and and Fincher is just he is the greatest.
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: He was so much fun and so just a terrific guy.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: I really enjoyed it.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: So so what does what does he do Bob that
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: is that is different, that that sort of makes him fincher,
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: if you know what I mean? Is it just by
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: directing actions.
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: I've told, I've told I've told this story before on
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: another podcast, so I'm not going to tell the entire story.
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: He cast me and then brought me in as an extra,
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: not telling me he cast me because the character was nervous,
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: and and then sprung it on me the day of
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: the shoot.
• 57:06
  Speaker 7: And then and then uh had me, had me look
• 57:13
  Speaker 7: at the script, and then once I felt halfway comfortable,
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: said okay, we're not using the script.
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: We're going to do this all and we're going to
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: add lib everything. And then he said, oh, by the way,
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: the real guy who you're portraying was a chainsmoker. You smoke?
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: I said no, and he said you do now, and
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: it just went to really help my performance. He was great.
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: I mean he was, he was. He was couldn't have been,
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: couldn't have been a better experience as an actor, couldn't
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: have been. It's it was one for the books. It's
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: it's you know, it's one of those great memories that
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: no one could ever take away from you.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: So Jesus A quick follow up one Fincher question, did
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: how many takes did you do of the scenes? Because
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: I've heard stories about Fincher where he does a lot
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: of takes of the same thing. Did you have through
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: a lot of did you do a lot of takes
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: that day? I?
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, many, multiple, multiple multiples. But the greatest story was
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: I play a cab driver. And then one of the scenes,
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: I was actually driving the cab and Jake Jillenhall runs
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: across Mission Street to the Chronicle building and all he
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: does to run across and he hits my cab with
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: the palm of his hand as he's running because I'm
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: to get up as he's trying to run across the street,
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: and I stopped, and about take seventy four, jill and
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: Hall walked up to the window of the cab and
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: looked at me and said, do you want to do
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: that again? And I said, hey, he goes, I don't
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: and he walked over to Finstant and said, I'm done.
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: I'm through with running across the streets and yeah, seveny takes,
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: so Bob running across the street.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: So so I just want to just sort of reiterate
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: that because we kind of lost the connection there for
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: a second, so Jake. But Jake went back to Fincher
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: and just said, I'm done.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm done with this.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: Uh see stories like that, Bob. That that that stories.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: I like that.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Why I like filmmaking. It's just stories like that. And again,
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: like you said, in an experience you're going to take
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: away for the rest of your life. Oh yeah, and uh, Bob,
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: we had a few questions come in. Uh okay, and
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: we've answered a lot of them as just in the
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: course of conversation as it naturally happens. But there is
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: there is one question that I thought I would ask,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: and I'm sorry I didn't. I don't know who actually
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: asked this. I will find out in a second. But uh,
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: just about marketing yourself over the years and promotion.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: This came in through the screenwriters who can actually write
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: a Facebook for him.
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask about that. What you so, what
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: are some of the things that you've done and advice
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: for for writers for marketing and promotion over the years,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: for for for people who want to promote their own.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Work, anything you can do that's not illegal or stupid.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: That's that's my that's that's pretty much my whole you know,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: my whole outlook on marketing yourself, I did it a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: lot through networking because I was lucky enough to be
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: an actor and beyond sets and network with people and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: get to know people first before I said, oh, by
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: the way, I'm writing something. I didn't walk up to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: you know, people I met right away and say, oh,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: you know, by the way, I'm I'm you know, I'm
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: a writer. Where you read my scripts and make me,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: you know, and buy it and make me a millionaire,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: which I've seen people do. I I again, I establish
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: relationships with people. Well. Networking is incredibly important. It takes
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: a long time, but it's really the best way querying
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: producers going on IMDb pro. You have to if you're
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: going to be in business for yourself, like I said before,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: in your marketing yourself, you have to invest in your business.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: You can't be cheap about it. So you have to
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: buy things like IMDb pro and you've got to go
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: on there and you've got to look at the producers
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: who produce the kind of scripts that you're writing and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: query them. You know, in ninety nine percent of the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: time you're going to get no answer or a pass.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: But the thing about it is is that all it
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: takes is one person to believe in you and believe
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: in what you do, one person to begin with. That's
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: all it took for me, one person. And I think
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: that that the problem is is that people don't want
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: to do the hard work that it takes to find
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: that one person. See query producers and you keep quarrying them.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: Querry managers agents. Agents aren't going to want to talk
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: to you. Don't query agents. They don't want you, they
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: don't need you there, They've got what they want. If
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: you're when you get established, then they'll talk to you.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: But managers, managers will talk to you. There's lists of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: managers on done deal pro There's lists of managers that
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: you can find on the internet. Find the ones that
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: are specializing in the kind of things that you're writing,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: and query them and then you know, do it again,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: and then do it again, not to not too quickly,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: but you know, and and keep it up and keep
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: I used to keep a big chart of who I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: sent stuff to and when I sent stuff to them
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: and what the response was. So so I was educated
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: and knew you know, who I'd sent stuff to before,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: so I wasn't an idiot and sent the same thing
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: out to them again.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: So it's like they're like, man, this this guy sent
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: me the same thing again. I didn't like it the
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: first time.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: Yet, Yeah, you don't want to do that because actually,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: surprisingly enough, some of these places do actually keep track
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: and and and you don't want to be one of
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: the people that they see something from and just delete.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: So you want to be you have to be smart
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: and businesslike about it. It's uh and and and corying
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: and networking and and some of the contests are good too.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: I've had a friend who I've got had a couple
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: of friends who did really well in the Nickel and
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: they got managers out of it, and they got some
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: writing assignments out of it. So the Nickels a great contest.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: To do well in Austin is another great contest to
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: do well in and after that it kind of falls off.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: Precipitously that you know that there are so many screenwrine
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: contests now that producers really don't care if it's Austin
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: or or the Nickel. They care if it is anything else.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: There's not a whole lot of interest, and then the
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: blacklist every once in a while, and can do something
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: on the blacklist, not very often, because it's like anything else,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: it's you have the same chances you do with a
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: query or anything else. If you do well, that doesn't
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: mean that somebody's gonna option your thing. And then you
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: can do well and sometimes somebody will option something, but
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: then again a lot of most options still get made.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: So it's it's it's a it's trial and error, it's
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: being organized, and it's figuring out how to network. You
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: can network on Twitter, you can network on Facebook. I've
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: met a lot of really wonderful people on the writing
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: and the writing group on Facebook, and I've met some
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: incredible people who are going to be my lifelong friends
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: on Twitter, who are who are really some f fine,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: fine writers that I really respect. So you just never know.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true, Bob. I mean, hey, look we're friends,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: and you know, we were friends for a while, and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: you know, now we're being able to chat like this.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: Which is great. I like your like I said before,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: I really like your podcast. You ask good questions and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: you listen and you ask good follow up questions. And
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: you have interesting people on. I can't ask for more
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: than this.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, well, I really appreciate that. And it's
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: always good having you know, amazing guests like you on.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: And no, I mean seriously, I mean.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: I met. I had a young writer who wanted to
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: come and have and have a drink with me last night.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: I was in LA and I it was late at night,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: and I said, yes, I'd be happy to and he
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: comes in and he says, look, I'm just so in
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: awe and all this stuff, and I said, stop stop,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: I don't. I don't handle that. Well, I know that
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: doesn't work for me. Let's just sit like a couple
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: of guys and talk about writing. And and that's thank
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: you for saying I'm amazing. I just I just I am,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: I am who I am. And it doesn't change from
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: you know, from person to person. And and and I
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: love what I do. And I had so much incredible
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: help when I was first getting started by some phenomenally calended,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: wonderfully influential people that the least that I can do,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: as far as I'm concerned, is to give some of
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: it back.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: And we're all very appreciative of that, Bob, because you know,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: I'm always fortunate again to find guests like that, who
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: who are very interested in sort of doing you know,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: podcasts like like mine and and you know, trying to
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: give back and sharing the knowledge and the wisdom from
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: from climbing those mountaintops, so to speak. And I've been
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: very fortunate. I've had a lot of great guests on. Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: So it's it's it's been it's been a long journey.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: It's great. We'll keep it up. I will continue to
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: listen and and thanks for having me on. I really
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: I really appreciate it. It's it's uh, yeah, I enjoy doing
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: things like this. It's it's always fun.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Bob. Where do you will find you? Right online?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: You can find me online at at b O B
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: S n z at on Twitter. I have a blog
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: that I am not really good about keeping up with
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: all the time. But some some buddy that rates screenwriting
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: blog somewhere rated me in the top ten, which I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: was amazed at. And uh, it's called it's Bob Signs
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: b O B S A e n z dot com
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: slash blog and I'm on Facebook but and uh at
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: Bob Science b O B S A e n z
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: and I'm not and I'm not the Bob Science Whousie
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: insurance salesman in Texas.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: Oh that's what I thought I was talking to. Damn.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: I I will link to all that in the show
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: notes everyone. By the way, so everyone who wants to
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: to talk to Bob, I'm gonna link to all that.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and and uh and and you can. Actually I
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: have a I have a business email which is which
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: is on my website. So it's not anything that isn't
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: out there. It's Bob at Bob Science dot com.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: Again, Bob signs. I want to say thank you so
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: much for coming on and this has been an absolute.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: Blast, my my player, thank you for having me take
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: care of Bob. Thank you bye.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave, thank you so much for
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: doing such a great job on this episode. If you
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: want to get links to anything we spoke about in
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproofscreenwriting
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: dot tv. Forward slash for fifty three. Thank you so
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: much for listening. Guys, as always, keep on writing no
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: matter what.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: dot tv.