Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / Whose Life Is This? How to Find Yourself When the Life You Built Stops Fitting | Happiness | E560

Transcript

Whose Life Is This? How to Find Yourself When the Life You Built Stops Fitting | Happiness | E560 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

0:06
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Speaker 1: and success, y'all. That's how it's done. Now on with
0:47
Speaker 1: the show.
1:00
Speaker 2: I knew in my soul I couldn't do one more day.
1:03
Speaker 2: My joie de vivre, like the joy of life, was missing.
1:06
Speaker 1: Have you ever looked around at your life and thought, wait...
1:20
Speaker 1: Whose life is this? How did I get here?
1:24
Speaker 2: You've built a life on other people and other things
1:27
Speaker 2: and your younger self's wants and desires. But that's not
1:30
Speaker 2: who you are today in this moment. And so let's
1:33
Speaker 2: try to figure out who that is.
1:34
Speaker 1: You know, I think that especially as we evolve through
1:37
Speaker 1: the years, move forward through time, we all can have some, huh,
1:42
Speaker 1: that's not where I intended to go moments moments. We
1:45
Speaker 1: need to do a course correct.
1:47
Speaker 2: How's your health and fitness? How's your spiritual life? How's
1:50
Speaker 2: your vision for your life? How will your happiness, the
1:53
Speaker 2: quality of your life?
1:54
Speaker 1: And figuring out how to get back on track, how
1:58
Speaker 1: to get reconnected with yourself and what you want.
2:01
Speaker 2: If you're not happy and fulfilled in your professional life,
2:04
Speaker 2: your personal life is probably also suffering. Let's look at
2:08
Speaker 2: the whole system. Let's look at every aspect of your life.
2:17
Speaker 1: If this is your first time tuning in, I'm so
2:19
Speaker 1: glad that you found me.
2:20
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Dr.
2:21
Speaker 1: Lisa Marie Bobby. I'm a psychologist. I'm a marriage and
2:24
Speaker 1: family therapist, and I'm also a board certified coach. And
2:27
Speaker 1: I could not be more thrilled to introduce you to
2:30
Speaker 1: Tanya Shikani. Tanya, like me, is a marriage and family therapist.
2:35
Speaker 1: She's also a board certified coach who incorporates a lot
2:38
Speaker 1: of coaching psychology into her work. as well as ideas
2:42
Speaker 1: from somatic spirituality, and she has such powerful ways of
2:47
Speaker 1: helping you get reconnected with yourself. Tanya, thank you so
2:51
Speaker 1: much for being here with us today.
2:53
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Yeah.
2:56
Speaker 1: Well, I've really been looking forward to this conversation because
3:00
Speaker 1: I've had a number of meetings today with clients or
3:04
Speaker 1: other people in my life, and One of the themes
3:07
Speaker 1: that's coming up is just this experience that I think
3:11
Speaker 1: we can all relate to on some level. But, you know,
3:13
Speaker 1: you get to a certain point in your life, you
3:15
Speaker 1: look up one day, you look around, and the life
3:18
Speaker 1: that you have created for yourself is actually that awesome
3:23
Speaker 1: in some ways. And, you know, that requires a reset, right?
3:30
Speaker 1: New intentionality around, okay, if this isn't really working for me,
3:35
Speaker 1: what do I want instead? And that in itself is
3:38
Speaker 1: a whole process. And that's your expertise. So just to begin,
3:43
Speaker 1: where do you think that comes from and why is
3:45
Speaker 1: it so common?
3:48
Speaker 2: I think there's so many factors. First of all, we're
3:52
Speaker 2: growing and changing and evolving. And so what worked for
3:57
Speaker 2: us in our 20s maybe isn't working or the same
4:00
Speaker 2: that we want in our 30s and 40s and those
4:02
Speaker 2: goals and those visions and all of that. um also
4:06
Speaker 2: many times we have other factors that influence who we
4:11
Speaker 2: want to be our families our belief systems our things
4:15
Speaker 2: like that and we get to a stage where we
4:19
Speaker 2: reach the goal that we've worked our whole life towards
4:21
Speaker 2: and we're like this isn't actually that fulfilling and um
4:25
Speaker 2: and so I think you know there's many reasons and
4:28
Speaker 2: many different scenarios but change and transition seems to be
4:32
Speaker 2: a universal human quality and And I think this reflects that. Yeah.
4:38
Speaker 1: Well, that's such a beautiful way to think about it,
4:40
Speaker 1: you know, and also so like compassionate and normalizing. Like
4:46
Speaker 1: if you're having that experience, it doesn't mean that you've
4:49
Speaker 1: done anything wrong, but it's really just sort of the
4:51
Speaker 1: reality of being a person moving through time. And especially,
4:56
Speaker 1: I love what you just said, you know, a lot
4:58
Speaker 1: of the things that we do, are really quite long-term.
5:02
Speaker 1: I mean, getting established in a career is, for a
5:06
Speaker 1: lot of people, a multi-decade process or having a family.
5:12
Speaker 1: And not only do the circumstances around you change 10, 15,
5:17
Speaker 1: 20 years later, but you're evolving the whole time too.
5:20
Speaker 1: And what once fit might not for the person that
5:23
Speaker 1: you've become. And so we just really need to take
5:25
Speaker 1: stock of that in a different way from time to time.
5:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Um, well, you know,
5:36
Speaker 1: let me ask you about another piece of this because
5:39
Speaker 1: I think, um, one of the things that can happen
5:45
Speaker 1: is that when people arrive in that place and they're
5:48
Speaker 1: just dissatisfied, you know, like kind of angsty, it can
5:53
Speaker 1: feel really overwhelming and, um, sometimes make people believe that
5:59
Speaker 1: their whole life is a disaster. They have to make
6:01
Speaker 1: big dramatic changes. And I know from my own experience
6:05
Speaker 1: in coaching, it can be really helpful.
6:07
Speaker 2: To put.
6:10
Speaker 1: A structured way of assisting people and like thinking about
6:14
Speaker 1: different domains of life as sort of their own things.
6:19
Speaker 1: Because like you could have so many parts of your
6:21
Speaker 1: life that are working really well, but perhaps you your
6:25
Speaker 1: physical health isn't what you would want it to be.
6:28
Speaker 1: Or maybe your physical health and your relationship aren't what
6:31
Speaker 1: you want them to be. But it doesn't mean that
6:33
Speaker 1: your whole life is a dumpster fire. Can you take
6:38
Speaker 1: us into, you know, you help people do some of
6:41
Speaker 1: that work of assessments.
6:44
Speaker 2: You know, I, a lot of reclines come to me
6:46
Speaker 2: when the fire is burning every, you know, is they're
6:51
Speaker 2: in a period of transition because that's really when you realize,
6:56
Speaker 2: things aren't working and you do need to make a change.
7:00
Speaker 2: And many times, you know, they'll come to me for
7:02
Speaker 2: one reason, career, marriage, relationship changes. But we really see
7:09
Speaker 2: there's such a strong correlation. You know, if you're not
7:12
Speaker 2: happy and fulfilled in your professional life, your personal life
7:16
Speaker 2: is probably also suffering. And so also as a marriage
7:20
Speaker 2: and family third, like I take a systemic lens of,
7:22
Speaker 2: Let's look at the whole system. Let's look at every
7:25
Speaker 2: aspect of your life, not just your relationship, your social life,
7:29
Speaker 2: but how's your health and fitness? How's your spiritual life?
7:32
Speaker 2: How's your, you know, the vision for your life, how
7:36
Speaker 2: your happiness, the quality of your life. And I think
7:40
Speaker 2: that's what's important where there is an inciting incident. You know,
7:43
Speaker 2: most people don't like to come to coaching or therapy
7:46
Speaker 2: and things like that. It's not body that you're just.
7:48
Speaker 1: Nobody really wants to talk to us. I'm not going
7:51
Speaker 1: to take that personally, but I think you're right. But yeah.
7:56
Speaker 2: And so, but when they do, it's something's really alive
8:00
Speaker 2: in them and this desire to change. And when we
8:04
Speaker 2: look at it, you know, it can be simple steps.
8:06
Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't even need to focus on, you know,
8:11
Speaker 2: that one thing that's causing the crisis. Maybe if we
8:14
Speaker 2: start creating different habits, different different behaviors on a different
8:19
Speaker 2: topic um they can work together and help you move
8:23
Speaker 2: it so when clients come to me um you know
8:27
Speaker 2: we just start with that we start with what's the
8:29
Speaker 2: vision like what's going on where do you want to
8:32
Speaker 2: go what what are your dreams your hopes your desires
8:34
Speaker 2: um And then we look at where are you at
8:38
Speaker 2: right now? Like, let's do a really deep dive. Where
8:41
Speaker 2: are you at in all 12 categories of life? Not
8:44
Speaker 2: just the thing that brought you here.
8:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting.
8:50
Speaker 2: Okay.
8:51
Speaker 1: And then this is also something great to normalize. Typically,
8:55
Speaker 1: it does take time. feeling like you are having a
9:00
Speaker 1: crisis to be motivated enough to connect with somebody like
9:04
Speaker 1: me or Tanya and start the conversation. And there's oftentimes
9:08
Speaker 1: this acute pain around one dimension of life that is
9:13
Speaker 1: like that precipitating incident, the catalyst, so to speak. But
9:20
Speaker 1: what you're saying, though, is so interesting because you're like,
9:23
Speaker 1: everything is related. Like, even if you are convinced that
9:28
Speaker 1: you just hate your job so much and if you
9:31
Speaker 1: had a different career path, everything else in your life
9:33
Speaker 1: would be better and different, you're saying that that's actually
9:36
Speaker 1: not true. Like, that your career would touch your relationship
9:40
Speaker 1: or your health or your spirituality even. I mean, can
9:45
Speaker 1: you just take us into this a little bit more deeply?
9:47
Speaker 1: Because this is counterintuitive. Yes.
9:49
Speaker 2: You know, when I started, I started as a career
9:51
Speaker 2: coach and an executive coach.
9:53
Speaker 1: And have an MBA. Oh, my gosh. I forgot to
9:56
Speaker 1: even mention that in your intro. Yes.
9:59
Speaker 2: I've had my... own personal transition story for when I
10:03
Speaker 2: had to redefine my life. But when we started that,
10:10
Speaker 2: all my clients were coming for leadership development. They were
10:15
Speaker 2: looking for a new job. They wanted to transition. They
10:18
Speaker 2: were laid off from their job. purely career matters, professional matters.
10:24
Speaker 2: And I just started noticing that there was such a
10:27
Speaker 2: strong correlation. They were having trouble in all relationships, not
10:33
Speaker 2: just relationships with their colleagues, relationships with their children. And
10:38
Speaker 2: so I did a bit more deeper dive on that.
10:42
Speaker 2: And studies do show that there is a strong correlation
10:45
Speaker 2: on this. And And that's where I started getting really
10:49
Speaker 2: interested in the relational aspect. And when I became a
10:53
Speaker 2: marriage and family therapist, because I felt you couldn't separate.
10:57
Speaker 2: You know, you're one person. And if you're going to
10:59
Speaker 2: live in integrity and congruence, you're really going to have
11:04
Speaker 2: to look at everything and work through all aspects. Interesting.
11:09
Speaker 1: And so then what I think I'm hearing you say
11:12
Speaker 1: is that, well, and maybe it's a both and, that
11:15
Speaker 1: stressors from the job or things that you're experiencing in
11:18
Speaker 1: the career domain can sort of influence and have this
11:22
Speaker 1: ripple effect on other areas of your life. But what
11:25
Speaker 1: I'm also hearing you say is that you are the
11:28
Speaker 1: same person.
11:29
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
11:30
Speaker 1: Go to work or when you're at home and that
11:33
Speaker 1: what you started to experience as an executive coach before
11:37
Speaker 1: you became an MFT is that there were these kind
11:41
Speaker 1: of bigger, broader, deeper patterns that were showing up in
11:45
Speaker 1: different places. And when people were coming in talking about
11:49
Speaker 1: job stress or difficult relationships at work, you saw more. Yeah.
11:55
Speaker 2: And let me just rephrase that. Ideally, you're the same person.
11:59
Speaker 2: You're not putting on a mask.
12:01
Speaker 1: It's a different problem.
12:03
Speaker 2: Brasswood creates a lot of, you know, the stress, the, the,
12:07
Speaker 2: just the dissatisfaction when you can't be authentically yourself. And
12:12
Speaker 2: many times you don't even know who your authentic self
12:16
Speaker 2: is because there's so many different roles you play. And
12:21
Speaker 2: so that's kind of what we do in my room.
12:23
Speaker 2: We try to like peel off this, these layers, this,
12:27
Speaker 2: you know, I always say it's like repealing the onion
12:29
Speaker 2: to get to the the road.
12:33
Speaker 1: Oh, this is going so much deeper. It's, I mean,
12:36
Speaker 1: it's really not even exploring like, how would you rate
12:39
Speaker 1: yourself in the health domain of your life? You're saying,
12:43
Speaker 1: do you even know who you are on like a
12:45
Speaker 1: fundamental level?
12:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:47
Speaker 1: Wow. The people get disconnected from that over time. Wow.
12:59
Speaker 1: But that makes sense though. You know, I mean, I
13:01
Speaker 1: think especially being a, air quote, functional adult really requires
13:08
Speaker 1: us to be, the word that's coming up, like selfless, self-sacrificing,
13:16
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, as a parent. doesn't really
13:19
Speaker 1: matter what your preference would be uh you know weeknights
13:23
Speaker 1: when your kid needs dinner and a bath and homework
13:25
Speaker 1: and right it's disregarded or there's so much stuff that
13:29
Speaker 1: you just have to do um both at work at
13:33
Speaker 1: home and and that over time so much of that
13:37
Speaker 1: can become like so automatic that it's like what do
13:40
Speaker 1: i enjoy yeah what is meaningful to me.
13:44
Speaker 2: Yeah and you know In this fast-paced life, we have
13:49
Speaker 2: very little luxury to ask ourselves that. And so to
13:56
Speaker 2: have that ability to just take a breath, take some
14:00
Speaker 2: space and understand that it's a privilege, but also it
14:04
Speaker 2: feels to me like the key, one of the turning
14:06
Speaker 2: points for your own happiness and success and growth.
14:11
Speaker 1: And this is also big, like this is a big work,
14:14
Speaker 1: as they would say in Montessori, right? And so for
14:17
Speaker 1: our friends listening to this, perhaps it's tears in their
14:20
Speaker 1: eyes thinking, oh my gosh, yes, this is me. This
14:22
Speaker 1: has happened to me. Obviously, this is a experiential process
14:28
Speaker 1: that unfolds over time. And I just want to make
14:30
Speaker 1: everybody aware of this, especially in this day and age,
14:33
Speaker 1: like so much of I think what people are thinking
14:35
Speaker 1: that we do or what Coaching is or therapy is
14:38
Speaker 1: like informational, like just tell me what to do, right?
14:41
Speaker 1: But what I think people don't realize is that people
14:44
Speaker 1: like me and you are creating experiences for people that
14:48
Speaker 1: unfold over time. And I just want to say that
14:50
Speaker 1: out loud to manage everybody's expectations here. For somebody who's
14:55
Speaker 1: listening to this and thinking, how do I even begin
14:58
Speaker 1: to get back into contact with who am I now?
15:03
Speaker 1: Where might they even start?
15:05
Speaker 2: You know, that's a great question. And I think that
15:07
Speaker 2: really depends on who they are and how they respond.
15:11
Speaker 2: A lot of clients, it's the physical, it's the body.
15:14
Speaker 2: So it's even working with your hands and just finding
15:18
Speaker 2: places and avenues where you find joy or creativity or happiness.
15:22
Speaker 2: You can connect, you know, you can connect to the earth,
15:25
Speaker 2: to whatever it is.
15:27
Speaker 1: So you're saying just like start paying attention to what
15:30
Speaker 1: feels good.
15:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:31
Speaker 1: Okay.
15:31
Speaker 2: We always talk about like go to the gym, sweat, dance,
15:34
Speaker 2: do things like that. Like do things that will make
15:38
Speaker 2: you feel alive. Call some friends, go out for dinner,
15:42
Speaker 2: just laughing and playing. And I think that's the starting.
15:46
Speaker 2: It's like this push of getting into your bodies in
15:48
Speaker 2: a sense.
15:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:50
Speaker 2: I'm also a somatic therapist and coach, and I find
15:53
Speaker 2: the body is like this tuning fork. And so what
15:57
Speaker 2: can you do to feel alive? For some people, it's travel.
16:01
Speaker 2: Let's go to a different country and experience foreign cultures
16:05
Speaker 2: and things like that. And, you know, I'm talking more
16:08
Speaker 2: about the clients that come to me and they really
16:09
Speaker 2: come to me in those periods of transition. We kind
16:13
Speaker 2: of need to interrupt that pattern. You know, they've been
16:17
Speaker 2: leading a life that maybe is or has not felt
16:20
Speaker 2: like it's their own, but whatever it is, they're in
16:22
Speaker 2: a stage where they want to change, but they don't allow.
16:24
Speaker 2: It's so overwhelming. Right.
16:27
Speaker 1: It is overwhelming. Well, and also too, like, I'm hearing
16:31
Speaker 1: everything that you're saying and like so important, right? You know,
16:36
Speaker 1: just start doing stuff and getting out into the world
16:39
Speaker 1: and that there's so much power for connecting with your
16:41
Speaker 1: physical experience. But I think there's also this, and I
16:45
Speaker 1: think I've experienced this in my own life. And I
16:47
Speaker 1: don't know if you have, but like, I don't know
16:51
Speaker 1: what would be fun for me with certain things. And
16:55
Speaker 1: it's like, you almost need to have experiments again, like,
17:01
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do random stuff and maybe I
17:05
Speaker 1: won't like some of it, but maybe I will like
17:07
Speaker 1: some of it. And it's like almost having to read.
17:10
Speaker 1: It's just like a rediscovery.
17:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see it like that. As children, we're discovering
17:15
Speaker 2: there's this curiosity around the whole, you know, I've ever
17:18
Speaker 2: seen children playing in the sandbox or wherever it is. Oh,
17:21
Speaker 2: there's a new color. There's a new, you know, thing
17:24
Speaker 2: we can play with. And so sometimes that's what it is.
17:29
Speaker 2: Look at, you know, see what's being offered, the classes
17:32
Speaker 2: that's being offered in your local community. It could be
17:35
Speaker 2: a breathwork class. It could be even literally a laughter
17:38
Speaker 2: yoga class, which is just going to force you to laugh,
17:41
Speaker 2: you know?
17:41
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go to a laughter yoga. I didn't know
17:44
Speaker 1: that was a thing. We have goat yoga at Boulder County,
17:47
Speaker 1: but I'm going to sign up for that. But yeah,
17:49
Speaker 1: like just to see what is interesting. But also what
17:52
Speaker 1: I'm hearing in here is like, it's okay to not
17:55
Speaker 1: know what you really want or what you like it.
17:59
Speaker 1: And I think that some people, like, that feels like
18:00
Speaker 1: its own sort of pressure, that it can turn into
18:03
Speaker 1: this intellectualization, like, and its own kind of anxiety. You're like,
18:09
Speaker 1: just stop. Just go do stuff. Be random.
18:11
Speaker 2: It's okay. That reminds me, I don't know if you
18:15
Speaker 2: have seen the movie Runaway Bride. No. Rita Roberts and
18:20
Speaker 2: Isaac Lee.
18:21
Speaker 1: From ages ago. I didn't know that one. Yeah.
18:24
Speaker 2: So basically, you know, she would like take on the
18:28
Speaker 2: partner that she was engaged to to that, you know,
18:32
Speaker 2: in that phase of her life. And she, you know,
18:34
Speaker 2: she kept going deep relationships up to the wedding and
18:37
Speaker 2: then she'd run away. But there was this scene where
18:41
Speaker 2: one of her friends, you know, asked her, I've noticed
18:44
Speaker 2: there was a journalist who was doing an expose on her.
18:47
Speaker 2: And he's like, I noticed that the eggs you eat
18:50
Speaker 2: in the morning are are based on your fiancé' s favorite eggs.
18:54
Speaker 2: So if she's with one person who likes poached eggs,
18:56
Speaker 2: she eats poached eggs every day and all night. And
18:59
Speaker 2: so then there's this scene where she's spitting. She's like,
19:02
Speaker 2: I've got to change this pattern. I've got to change
19:03
Speaker 2: this habit. And she's got eggs laid out on the table,
19:07
Speaker 2: every kind of egg you can imagine. And she's tasting
19:12
Speaker 2: them all to see what does she like, not what
19:14
Speaker 2: is her culture telling her or her relationships or her job,
19:19
Speaker 2: her work? What is she as an individual like? And
19:22
Speaker 2: I feel that's kind of what we're trying to get at.
19:24
Speaker 2: You've built a life on other people and other things
19:27
Speaker 2: and your younger self's wants and desires, but that's not
19:30
Speaker 2: who you are today in this moment. And so let's
19:34
Speaker 2: try to figure out who that is.
19:36
Speaker 1: So powerful with compassion, with curiosity, with openness, but it's
19:42
Speaker 1: like this invitation to just find out. Yeah. I'm sad
19:47
Speaker 1: to report that we need to take a really quick
19:50
Speaker 1: break because I am so enchanted by everything that you're
19:52
Speaker 1: saying right now. I want to keep going. But so
19:55
Speaker 1: on the other side of this, I would love to
19:57
Speaker 1: even go into this deeper. I mean, you know, pulling
20:00
Speaker 1: in some of your wisdom as a somatic therapist, I
20:03
Speaker 1: know that also spirituality is a big part of how
20:07
Speaker 1: you help people reconnect with themselves and And going into
20:11
Speaker 1: the different dimensions and being able to use some of
20:13
Speaker 1: those tools and techniques, is that okay to talk about
20:16
Speaker 1: on the other side?
20:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do that one.
20:34
Speaker 1: We are back with my friend and colleague, Tanya Shikani. She,
20:38
Speaker 1: like me, is a marriage and family therapist. She's a
20:40
Speaker 1: specialist in coaching psychology. And Tanya's the most fascinating person.
20:44
Speaker 1: She has such a diverse background in the MBA, somatic therapy.
20:49
Speaker 1: There's a spiritual component to your work, Tanya. And just
20:52
Speaker 1: before the break, you were taking us into the heart
20:56
Speaker 1: of the experience of becoming disconnected from the self and
21:01
Speaker 1: how it often begins as a feeling of dissatisfaction, sometimes
21:06
Speaker 1: even a crisis of dissatisfaction. But at the core is
21:10
Speaker 1: often the central problem that we often don't even know
21:14
Speaker 1: what to change if we don't know who we are.
21:19
Speaker 1: And so we started talking about some of your ideas
21:23
Speaker 1: for how to reconnect with yourself. And I'd love for
21:26
Speaker 1: you to take us deeper into this. I mean, Incorporating
21:30
Speaker 1: somatic components, even spiritual components.
21:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:33
Speaker 1: So with the experiences you're creating for your clients, where
21:36
Speaker 1: do you go?
21:38
Speaker 2: It's really customized on them and who they are because
21:42
Speaker 2: none of us are the same. I have some who
21:44
Speaker 2: are very kinesthetic and, you know, they embody things through
21:48
Speaker 2: feeling and touch and things like that. and others who
21:52
Speaker 2: are more mental and visual and the thinkers and the
21:57
Speaker 2: analysts and things. And so it really depends on you.
22:00
Speaker 2: And I think this is what part of what this
22:02
Speaker 2: process is, is finding out who you are. There's many
22:06
Speaker 2: ways to quiet the mind in a sense. And so
22:08
Speaker 2: I incorporate a lot of mindfulness techniques, a lot of meditations.
22:13
Speaker 2: That's part of the experiential work of You know, how
22:17
Speaker 2: can we tune in, listen to our body? What was
22:19
Speaker 2: like a pain in our thigh? Is that a pain
22:22
Speaker 2: in our thigh or is that our thigh? Part of
22:26
Speaker 2: the somatic psychotherapy is a lot of these symptoms show
22:30
Speaker 2: up in the body. And many times it's an access
22:34
Speaker 2: point to your unconscious of what's beneath the surface in
22:38
Speaker 2: a sense. And so we kind of use that as
22:41
Speaker 2: a tool to really see what's playing out, what's going
22:45
Speaker 2: on under the surface. But for many people, meditation is hard.
22:49
Speaker 2: You know, we're trained.
22:51
Speaker 1: I hate it.
22:51
Speaker 2: Exactly. Like everyone says, you know, you want to see
22:56
Speaker 2: the biggest failure, like try to meditate and, you know,
23:00
Speaker 2: go like that. But meditation doesn't have to be sitting
23:03
Speaker 2: cross-legged on a cushion, chanting a mantra or anything like that.
23:07
Speaker 2: It could be gardening, using your hands. It could be
23:11
Speaker 2: taking a walk. It could be sewing. But the importance
23:14
Speaker 2: is to turn off that chatter brain so you can
23:18
Speaker 2: hear the whispers that are on the other side. And
23:22
Speaker 2: I think that's part of that access point. Some people
23:26
Speaker 2: with journaling, writing, doing things to really open up that
23:30
Speaker 2: right brain, which we don't get to use that much,
23:32
Speaker 2: most of us.
23:33
Speaker 1: I'm having like all kinds of ideas exploding in my
23:36
Speaker 1: mind all at once. And now I have to organize
23:39
Speaker 1: my reaction to this because I'm just so struck by
23:42
Speaker 1: what you're saying. The theme here is that no matter
23:46
Speaker 1: what you feel about meditation, our ability to kind of intellectualize, rationalize,
23:52
Speaker 1: worry about stuff is really an obstacle when it comes
23:56
Speaker 1: to being in contact with your true self many times.
23:59
Speaker 1: And I know that. I mean, I can rationalize myself
24:02
Speaker 1: into all kinds of stuff, right? But what you're saying
24:06
Speaker 1: is that your body is communicating with you if you
24:10
Speaker 1: know how to listen to it. And that simply finding
24:14
Speaker 1: ways to be in the present and grounded in physical
24:17
Speaker 1: reality is an entry point. But also, and I think
24:21
Speaker 1: this has been my experience, like I love journaling and
24:24
Speaker 1: I just something about like, how do I feel? And
24:28
Speaker 1: being able to put it into words through writing is
24:31
Speaker 1: really helpful for me because like I'll write stuff and
24:33
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I didn't know that I felt that way.
24:36
Speaker 1: But it's kind of understanding what your own access points are.
24:41
Speaker 1: And maybe it can be more than one. Is it
24:43
Speaker 1: okay to ask, like, for you? I mean, have you
24:46
Speaker 1: ever gone through this and thinking, like, how do I
24:50
Speaker 1: stay in touch with myself?
24:53
Speaker 2: I think part of, you know, you want to say
24:55
Speaker 2: you teach what you most need to learn. For me,
24:58
Speaker 2: you know, that was my story. I built my life.
25:01
Speaker 2: I was going to be the vice president of marketing
25:04
Speaker 2: for a huge Fortune 500 company.
25:05
Speaker 1: Wow.
25:07
Speaker 2: And that's what I worked towards for years and years.
25:10
Speaker 2: That's where I got the MBA. I worked in corporate
25:13
Speaker 2: for 15 years, brand management. And then I reached a
25:18
Speaker 2: stage where on the outside, my financial life was really healthy.
25:23
Speaker 2: My career prospects, I hadn't reached 30 and I was
25:27
Speaker 2: already managing a half a billion dollar brand.
25:30
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
25:32
Speaker 2: Exactly. So on the outside, everything looked amazing. But- Those
25:37
Speaker 2: other factors, health and fitness, was zero. My relationship life, like,
25:42
Speaker 2: didn't exist. Like, there were many other factors where I
25:47
Speaker 2: wasn't really happy. I wasn't internally successful. My mind, like,
25:51
Speaker 2: always chattering. I love to learn things and do new things,
25:54
Speaker 2: but I had no access to myself and who I
25:58
Speaker 2: was and what I needed and what would help me
26:01
Speaker 2: grow and thrive and just be happy and content and peace.
26:04
Speaker 2: And so I did a really deep dive where I
26:07
Speaker 2: left corporate. I kind of, I say it was like
26:10
Speaker 2: this long gap year of I traveled the world and
26:14
Speaker 2: I took every single personal development program I could get
26:17
Speaker 2: my hands on to find myself in a way. And
26:20
Speaker 2: that is when I fell in love with coaching and
26:23
Speaker 2: meditation and connection. So for me, the access is really
26:28
Speaker 2: connecting with the land, connecting, really grounding myself, really being
26:33
Speaker 2: in meditation and things like that. But it took a
26:37
Speaker 2: while to find that. And I think that's where I
26:41
Speaker 2: did that big deep dive of transitioned into coaching and
26:44
Speaker 2: into therapy and into all of that because I felt
26:48
Speaker 2: that spark again. For me, it didn't matter if I
26:50
Speaker 2: sold another unit of whatever it was I was selling.
26:53
Speaker 2: It almost felt like I needed more and I had
26:57
Speaker 2: no idea, you know, what or how to do. So
27:00
Speaker 2: I experimented with everything. I went back to school and
27:04
Speaker 2: all of these things. And so sometimes you just don't
27:06
Speaker 2: know and you're stuck in the patterns. And sometimes you
27:10
Speaker 2: need an outside nudge. I had so many coaches and
27:14
Speaker 2: mentors to help me and they come to you in
27:17
Speaker 2: the right time.
27:18
Speaker 1: And that's also a good point because, okay, first of all,
27:23
Speaker 1: I think I and all of our friends here as
27:26
Speaker 1: part of this conversation today, Tanya, I mean, I'm so
27:29
Speaker 1: struck by the courage. And also like the trust that
27:36
Speaker 1: went into your own leap of faith. I mean, that's
27:38
Speaker 1: the only way that you can say it because it
27:40
Speaker 1: could also have been really easy to talk yourself out
27:43
Speaker 1: of all of that. Like things are fine. I'm fine.
27:46
Speaker 1: Like doing that thing, you know, it's not that bad.
27:49
Speaker 1: But instead, you were like, I am actually not going
27:52
Speaker 1: to do this anymore. And this giant experiment where you
27:56
Speaker 1: didn't know it was going to happen set off into
27:58
Speaker 1: the unknown, like this year of travel and exploration and
28:01
Speaker 1: how courageous that was. And also, because it's so easy
28:06
Speaker 1: to talk yourself out of that kind of thing, you
28:08
Speaker 1: almost need somebody holding the other side of the rope
28:11
Speaker 1: that's like, keep going.
28:13
Speaker 2: It's okay.
28:13
Speaker 1: Because I would also imagine you probably had friends and
28:17
Speaker 1: family who were Thought you were having a mental breakdown.
28:19
Speaker 1: I was like really worried about you. Is that fair
28:22
Speaker 1: to say?
28:24
Speaker 2: You know, I knew I made a commitment to myself.
28:26
Speaker 2: I had a period of time and, you know, I
28:29
Speaker 2: was privileged to have some funds set aside where I
28:32
Speaker 2: knew I could always go back to the old life.
28:34
Speaker 2: You know, I had enough. I could always take another job.
28:37
Speaker 2: I could always... So with that, I did have a
28:40
Speaker 2: security blanket of sorts. But I knew in my soul
28:44
Speaker 2: I couldn't do one more day. My joie de vivre,
28:47
Speaker 2: like the joy of life, was missing. And so I
28:51
Speaker 2: find there's always a calling of sorts. You know, everyone's
28:54
Speaker 2: hero's journey. There's like that inciting incident that like pushes
28:57
Speaker 2: you in a way. And you have to make a choice.
29:00
Speaker 2: You either continue sleeping or you step up and you
29:04
Speaker 2: try it. You know, it took me many years to
29:06
Speaker 2: do this. So it's not like you just jump and
29:08
Speaker 2: you do it. It took me many years and a
29:10
Speaker 2: lot of planning and a lot of like, you know,
29:13
Speaker 2: thinking and all these things. But at the end, I
29:16
Speaker 2: knew I had to do it because I wasn't happy. Yeah.
29:20
Speaker 1: And now because of that work. You're in a position
29:24
Speaker 1: to help other people do exactly that, which must be
29:27
Speaker 1: so meaningful and exciting for you to walk back into
29:30
Speaker 1: the fire in some way and light the way forward
29:35
Speaker 1: for people who really need to do that as well
29:37
Speaker 1: but might be feeling scared or confused or overwhelmed. like
29:40
Speaker 1: all the things and that they need a guide.
29:43
Speaker 2: And that's you. Yeah. No, and I feel very lucky
29:46
Speaker 2: and privileged to be able to do that and really
29:48
Speaker 2: excited because I think, you know, no story is the same.
29:53
Speaker 2: And when you tap into that inner truth, just, You know,
30:00
Speaker 2: I always say we're creating a different story for the
30:04
Speaker 2: generations to come. That's when change happens. That's when growth
30:07
Speaker 2: happens in the world. That's when, you know, we become
30:10
Speaker 2: a better society. And so for me, I love it.
30:14
Speaker 2: And I feel very lucky that I found it and
30:16
Speaker 2: I'm able to do it.
30:19
Speaker 1: And, you know, something that you just said, that inner voice,
30:24
Speaker 1: reminded me of something else that I would love to
30:26
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on. Because, you know... spirituality can be
30:32
Speaker 1: such a powerful and important dimension of life for many people,
30:36
Speaker 1: not all people.
30:37
Speaker 2: And you do not have.
30:38
Speaker 1: To be a spiritual person or have a relationship with
30:41
Speaker 1: something larger than yourself. There are so many ways to
30:43
Speaker 1: be a happy person and have a nice life. And
30:47
Speaker 1: I feel like in a lot of ways, spirituality is
30:50
Speaker 1: kind of the third rail of our profession, right? So
30:54
Speaker 1: as psychotherapists and professional counselors, we need to be very
30:57
Speaker 1: careful around spirituality. creating space for other people to talk
31:02
Speaker 1: about their belief system, but like not always going there.
31:06
Speaker 1: And certainly like, you know, as psychotherapists, we're here to
31:10
Speaker 1: diagnose and treat clinical mental health conditions. And we're really
31:13
Speaker 1: like focused on the source of things like depression, anxiety, trauma,
31:17
Speaker 1: there's that. But I think that what you're doing in
31:20
Speaker 1: the coaching realm is opening this up to such a
31:23
Speaker 1: larger audience. you know, values, meaning, who are you? What
31:29
Speaker 1: is your purpose in life? And that is really this
31:32
Speaker 1: anchor to a more powerful spiritual dimension. I'd be so
31:36
Speaker 1: curious to hear your perspective or ideas on how someone
31:41
Speaker 1: could start to get tapped into that if it's undefined
31:46
Speaker 1: or even how to use an existing faith system to
31:50
Speaker 1: get more clear about some of these macro things big
31:54
Speaker 1: picture questions. Who am I? What is my life about?
31:56
Speaker 2: What am I here to do? You know, as a society,
31:59
Speaker 2: we have, everyone has different thoughts and feelings around spirituality,
32:04
Speaker 2: and religion, all these things. And so I'm never here
32:08
Speaker 2: to prescribe anything to anyone. It almost feels like there's
32:13
Speaker 2: three different forms of accessing spirituality. And, you know, this
32:19
Speaker 2: was taught to me by one of my teachers, where
32:23
Speaker 2: The first form, and that's the one we're most used to,
32:25
Speaker 2: is kind of someone else tells us what it is,
32:29
Speaker 2: whether it's a religious text or a spiritual leader or
32:34
Speaker 2: things like that. So the spirituality is almost outside of us,
32:37
Speaker 2: told to us.
32:39
Speaker 1: This is the way.
32:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the way. Yeah, exactly. And I think
32:42
Speaker 2: that's the part that many of us have been experienced
32:45
Speaker 2: with and have different feelings and responses to. Then there's
32:49
Speaker 2: the spirituality that is the inner knowing. You connect to
32:53
Speaker 2: your heart, you connect to yourself, your spirit, the inner voice,
32:58
Speaker 2: and it kind of guides you into, you know, that's
33:01
Speaker 2: kind of where they, it's, I don't know if you've heard,
33:04
Speaker 2: like the God within kind of thing. You know, that's
33:07
Speaker 2: the truth, the inner soul. Right. And then there's the
33:11
Speaker 2: universal spirituality where it's like we're connected to a bigger thing.
33:16
Speaker 2: the cosmos, the universe, you know, humanity as a whole,
33:21
Speaker 2: in a sense. And so we can tap into that
33:26
Speaker 2: connection in any of those three ways. Like for me,
33:29
Speaker 2: when I first tapped into my spirituality, it wasn't in
33:33
Speaker 2: the church or the mosque or the traditional religious senses.
33:37
Speaker 2: It was taking walks in the forest, sitting in the ocean,
33:40
Speaker 2: in the beach, in nature, having the sand in my hand,
33:43
Speaker 2: the water around me, hearing the leaves, the bird, you know?
33:47
Speaker 2: So it doesn't have to be like that. Those are
33:50
Speaker 2: the access points, those entry points that kind of just
33:53
Speaker 2: gets you to quiet your mind, to hear that different sensation, feeling,
33:59
Speaker 2: sense of knowing. You know, some people hear it, some
34:01
Speaker 2: people see it, some people feel it as goosebumps. And
34:04
Speaker 2: so that's kind of what we're trying to do. Your
34:07
Speaker 2: question was, how do we start or.
34:10
Speaker 1: I think that you answered it, which is like, how
34:15
Speaker 1: do you pull that lever, so to speak, as another dimension?
34:18
Speaker 1: And what you're saying, and I love this idea, the
34:21
Speaker 1: three different pathways of spirituality, and also that you can
34:26
Speaker 1: have all of those. You can be in a very
34:29
Speaker 1: well-defined belief system where there are teachings and the ritual
34:35
Speaker 1: around it, and also have a personal relationship with you know,
34:40
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of God or whatever you want to
34:43
Speaker 1: call it inside of you, but that also this experience
34:46
Speaker 1: of being connected to like this universal, we're all on
34:51
Speaker 1: a spaceship together kind of experience. And so those could
34:55
Speaker 1: all be there at one. But again, going just back
34:57
Speaker 1: to this idea, like getting really curious and starting to notice,
35:01
Speaker 1: where do I feel connected? Is it sitting in church
35:05
Speaker 1: on a Sunday morning with a group of other people?
35:08
Speaker 1: Is that really where I feel deeply connected? Or is
35:12
Speaker 1: it being in nature? Or is it having, you know,
35:15
Speaker 1: a different experience and that it's all okay? But giving
35:18
Speaker 1: yourself this almost invitation to start noticing.
35:22
Speaker 2: Sometimes the habits help you open to that. Think of
35:26
Speaker 2: like the really old yogic traditions and the more contemporary religions,
35:32
Speaker 2: you know? There's moving the body. There's singing. There's saying
35:37
Speaker 2: certain words in a pattern. Some have discipline. Some have community.
35:42
Speaker 2: Some have connection. But it's all different access points.
35:47
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Or even art. I mean, you know, we could
35:50
Speaker 1: say all kinds of things about the Catholic Church, but
35:54
Speaker 1: part of my spiritual background with my family was Catholicism.
35:58
Speaker 1: And I tell you what, I mean, with what they
36:01
Speaker 1: can do. And I've just had some experiences, not all
36:04
Speaker 1: the time, but in a few, they're doing with art
36:07
Speaker 1: and light and architecture and design and music. And they
36:12
Speaker 1: bust out the frankincense incense. I mean, like they are
36:15
Speaker 1: creating a whole atmosphere that is very powerful. And just
36:19
Speaker 1: pay attention to that and notice it.
36:21
Speaker 2: So good.
36:22
Speaker 1: Tanya, this is fascinating. And I love the way that
36:27
Speaker 1: you're really creating so much dimensionality for people to start
36:32
Speaker 1: tapping into different aspects of the self in a new way,
36:36
Speaker 1: to start to answer some of these questions around, how
36:40
Speaker 1: do I start to create a life that I feel
36:44
Speaker 1: good about? And we spend our time so far really
36:46
Speaker 1: talking about how to begin figuring out how you are
36:51
Speaker 1: and what you want, first of all, so that we
36:53
Speaker 1: can then turn that into to a different reality. And
36:57
Speaker 1: I hope we can talk about that part on the
37:00
Speaker 1: other side of this next break. So we're back with
37:17
Speaker 1: my friend and colleague, Tanya Chikani. Tanya, this has been
37:21
Speaker 1: such an interesting conversation. And I think you've given so
37:25
Speaker 1: much richness and depth to the experience of self-discovery, right?
37:31
Speaker 1: Like getting back into contact with who you really are
37:36
Speaker 1: and that there are so many pathways to doing that physical, spiritual, environmental,
37:42
Speaker 1: with your own voice, with your own just life, with
37:45
Speaker 1: what you enjoy. And this is always the first step
37:50
Speaker 1: of actualizing anything is to getting more information. And for
37:56
Speaker 1: all of our friends who are listening, if you have
37:58
Speaker 1: not been feeling good, if you've been feeling dissatisfied, if
38:01
Speaker 1: you're feeling like there is a gap between what you
38:04
Speaker 1: have in your life right now and what would really
38:08
Speaker 1: feel good to you, but you don't even know what
38:11
Speaker 1: to move towards yet, this is where we start. That
38:16
Speaker 1: has been just so awesome to hear you talk us through.
38:19
Speaker 1: But then there's that next part. And that's so much
38:22
Speaker 1: of what the coaching process is, is not just discovery.
38:27
Speaker 1: Because we can also do that as therapists. And therapists
38:30
Speaker 1: and counseling, there's like a lot of the discovery, but
38:33
Speaker 1: that's oftentimes where it stays, right? And that like insight
38:37
Speaker 1: and understanding, there's the hope that it could translate into
38:41
Speaker 1: a different outcome outside the counseling room. But that's actually
38:44
Speaker 1: not what therapists are there to do. But a coach
38:48
Speaker 1: is like, So, and so then I would love to
38:52
Speaker 1: hear you talk a little bit more about what we
38:54
Speaker 1: can begin doing with the information we're gathering about ourselves
39:02
Speaker 1: in different domains of life. And maybe just to begin,
39:06
Speaker 1: you started, I don't know if you said this out loud,
39:09
Speaker 1: but this is what I kind of interpreted you as saying,
39:12
Speaker 1: this like wheel of life idea, right? Different dimensions of life.
39:19
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes have things in common with others. Sometimes
39:22
Speaker 1: they're uniquely yours, but might include health. They might include
39:26
Speaker 1: an intimate partnership. They might include spirituality. Like, talk us
39:30
Speaker 1: through what you see as being the usual ones, and
39:35
Speaker 1: then we could talk through more specifically how to create change.
39:39
Speaker 2: Oh, that's, you know, when someone first comes to me,
39:42
Speaker 2: that's our first step is let's see, let's kind of
39:46
Speaker 2: do a visioning of where you want to go. And
39:48
Speaker 2: we do that, but we're doing that based on today's reality.
39:51
Speaker 2: So then we have to look at what is today's reality.
39:55
Speaker 2: Where are we at today, which is kind of what
39:57
Speaker 2: we discussed before. Yeah. And so we do a deep dive.
40:01
Speaker 2: Where are you in your health and fitness? Where are
40:03
Speaker 2: you in your intellectual life? Where are you in your
40:06
Speaker 2: spiritual life, in your love life, in your social life,
40:09
Speaker 2: in your career, in your financial life? in your character life? Like,
40:14
Speaker 2: what kind of person do you want to be? So
40:16
Speaker 2: there's like a whole bunch of, you know, I follow
40:19
Speaker 2: 12 categories. And this was taught to me by one
40:22
Speaker 2: of my teachers. And so we look at where you're
40:25
Speaker 2: at in all those categories. And the last category is
40:29
Speaker 2: your life vision. So not where you are in isolation,
40:34
Speaker 2: but as a whole, how is the person, you know,
40:37
Speaker 2: in that? And where's the gap? And I think this
40:40
Speaker 2: is the big part of You know, with therapy, we
40:43
Speaker 2: stay on the gap and the analysis and the looking back.
40:47
Speaker 2: But here we're looking at how can we bridge that gap.
40:51
Speaker 2: And really, once we have that clear understanding of honestly
40:55
Speaker 2: where we're at, not kind of where we'd like to
40:59
Speaker 2: be or hesitant, but really looking at, you know, where
41:04
Speaker 2: you're at today and that gap. And what needs to happen? Like,
41:08
Speaker 2: where do you really want to go? What can you shed?
41:11
Speaker 2: What can you release? What do you have to bring
41:13
Speaker 2: in and add into to achieve that vision and that goal?
41:17
Speaker 2: And then it kind of becomes clearer of how to
41:20
Speaker 2: make that happen. What are the simple steps? I'm always saying, like,
41:23
Speaker 2: what's that one simple step you can take to just
41:26
Speaker 2: inch yourself forward? But that's really overwhelming and hard when
41:30
Speaker 2: you're starting. And it's like, everything needs to change. Nothing
41:32
Speaker 2: is working. Versus, let's break everything down. Let's look at
41:37
Speaker 2: where we need to go, and what's easiest to start with.
41:39
Speaker 2: You know, maybe in the first year, we start with
41:41
Speaker 2: our bodies. We start, you know, going to the gym,
41:45
Speaker 2: eating better, being healthier. So that can be a move. Yeah.
41:49
Speaker 1: Oh, no, not to interrupt you.
41:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:51
Speaker 1: Why? There's so much wisdom in that. Like, choose one.
41:55
Speaker 1: But also, like, wisdom in choose the one that is
42:00
Speaker 1: going to have a lot of impact. Like what you
42:03
Speaker 1: were just saying about physical health, I could totally relate
42:07
Speaker 1: to this idea of a keystone, something that we.
42:11
Speaker 2: Can do first.
42:12
Speaker 1: And I know that times in my own life, you know,
42:15
Speaker 1: I have really prioritized everything else except my physical health.
42:20
Speaker 1: And I didn't even realize it until I got to
42:23
Speaker 1: a place where I was just tired, you know, just
42:26
Speaker 1: kind of like simmering in anxiety that really does have
42:30
Speaker 1: such a physiological component, like not sleeping well, not feeling
42:33
Speaker 1: strong or energized. And also like, I think, especially as
42:37
Speaker 1: we get older, right? I mean, there starts to be
42:40
Speaker 1: a cognitive impact, like kind of not clear. And, you know,
42:45
Speaker 1: just got to this point where that was something that
42:47
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, this year, the only thing I'm
42:49
Speaker 1: going to do is focus on physical health and you know,
42:53
Speaker 1: starting to exercise regularly and paying more attention to what
42:56
Speaker 1: I'm eating. And it made such a difference because then
43:01
Speaker 1: like you have more energy that shows up in other
43:04
Speaker 1: parts of your life. And so, and I'm not saying
43:06
Speaker 1: that everybody has to start with physical health. Maybe for
43:09
Speaker 1: some people it is really more spirituality or more relational.
43:12
Speaker 1: It could be anything, but like just to choose one
43:15
Speaker 1: and go.
43:16
Speaker 2: Like, you know, in the office or the business world,
43:22
Speaker 2: start with this 10-year plan for where the business is going.
43:27
Speaker 2: And then we break it down to the annual plan.
43:30
Speaker 2: And then we have the quarterly plan. And then every month,
43:33
Speaker 2: you know, we meet. And then the weekly plan, maybe
43:36
Speaker 2: you meet with your line manager of what are we
43:38
Speaker 2: doing this week? to build. And with our lives, we
43:42
Speaker 2: do this and we can do the same things. And
43:44
Speaker 2: I really advocate that because as humans, we tend to
43:49
Speaker 2: overestimate what we can do our goals for a year
43:53
Speaker 2: and underestimate what we do for three years. Like the
43:57
Speaker 2: goals we set in three years, most times we can
44:00
Speaker 2: over surpass them, but we kind of overestimate those annual goals.
44:05
Speaker 2: And if we overestimate them and we don't achieve them,
44:08
Speaker 2: then we get deflated, then, you know, all the other
44:10
Speaker 2: things come up. And so what we're trying to do
44:13
Speaker 2: is to create wins, small wins that will, over time,
44:17
Speaker 2: give you that 10-year goal or vision that you're wanting.
44:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so smart. And a good reminder, I think,
44:26
Speaker 1: that I could certainly get overly ambitious about what I'm
44:29
Speaker 1: going to do in a day, you know, let alone
44:31
Speaker 1: a year, but like to... have awareness about your capacity,
44:35
Speaker 1: what's realistic, design, whatever you're doing so that you have
44:38
Speaker 1: wins is so important. And there's so much wisdom there.
44:43
Speaker 1: But before I let you go, can I just ask
44:45
Speaker 1: you about one other dimension of this? And I think
44:48
Speaker 1: Ivan needs to be more part of the conversation. And
44:51
Speaker 1: sometimes what I worry about, especially in a day and
44:56
Speaker 1: age where people are like, Claude, what do I do? Right?
45:00
Speaker 1: And there's this idea that if somebody just told me
45:04
Speaker 1: what to do or having the answer, having more information
45:08
Speaker 1: is going to solve this, as opposed to the experiential
45:11
Speaker 1: power of what you're doing, Tanya, is this other piece
45:16
Speaker 1: of creating the outcome, which is understanding the obstacles in
45:23
Speaker 1: a different way and In my experience in my own life,
45:27
Speaker 1: and certainly with clients, what I see time and time
45:30
Speaker 1: again is that many times there can be a clear vision.
45:35
Speaker 1: People know what they want. There can be a motivation
45:39
Speaker 1: to change if people can understand, okay, now I even
45:41
Speaker 1: have an action plan. But they're not fully aware of
45:46
Speaker 1: these frequently internal obstacles, these old things that will drag
45:51
Speaker 1: them off the plan or be like these habitual ways
45:55
Speaker 1: of being or even thinking, and they are blind spots.
46:00
Speaker 1: And so I know that this is unique to every person,
46:05
Speaker 1: but I feel like this is the power of having
46:10
Speaker 1: a relationship with somebody like you, the therapist and a
46:14
Speaker 1: coach who can design all of this. We have in
46:16
Speaker 1: these conversations, but also be giving people visibility into the
46:20
Speaker 1: things that they don't even know. They don't No. Is
46:25
Speaker 1: that what you see or would you are... Do you
46:27
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about?
46:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I do. And, you know, I get this
46:31
Speaker 2: feedback a lot because I was a coach first before
46:34
Speaker 2: I was a therapist. Yeah. And when clients would come
46:37
Speaker 2: to me, my therapy clients would come to me, they'd say, Tana,
46:40
Speaker 2: you're so different because you do hold us accountable. You know,
46:44
Speaker 2: I hold the space, the warmth, the, you know, that
46:47
Speaker 2: makes therapy work. But also I'm a coach. I'm action
46:51
Speaker 2: oriented at heart. And so... you know, I'm going to
46:55
Speaker 2: be direct. And I think that's what a lot of coaching,
46:58
Speaker 2: what the benefits of coaching is. We're not going to
47:02
Speaker 2: just hold your hand and say things are okay. If
47:05
Speaker 2: we can push, we're going to lovingly and gently push
47:08
Speaker 2: you when you need to be pushed. We're going to
47:10
Speaker 2: bring in different ideas. Whenever the experts, you're the expert
47:13
Speaker 2: of your life and you're going to guide what What
47:16
Speaker 2: happens and you know your life better than any of us.
47:20
Speaker 2: But sometimes it takes an outsider to help you see
47:24
Speaker 2: those blind spots. Everyone, like there's a rear view mirror
47:27
Speaker 2: and there's two side mirrors when you're driving because you
47:30
Speaker 2: don't know what you don't know and you can't see
47:31
Speaker 2: what you can't see. You're still driving. But I see
47:34
Speaker 2: that coach is kind of like helping, holding that space
47:37
Speaker 2: to support you. in a loving and gentle and sometimes
47:41
Speaker 2: more directive way. And, and so, um, yeah, I know
47:45
Speaker 2: that's the feedback I get and the clients that come
47:47
Speaker 2: to me, they want that. They want, you know, someone to,
47:52
Speaker 2: to push them when they need to be pushed.
47:53
Speaker 1: Well, and I know they've often been in therapy for
47:57
Speaker 1: years before it, before coming to you, they're like, okay,
48:00
Speaker 1: I mean, this needs to change for real. But you know, the,
48:02
Speaker 1: the other thing too, um, yeah, to be able to
48:06
Speaker 1: say things more directly and to lovingly challenge somebody to,
48:11
Speaker 1: you know, follow through. And I could also see you
48:15
Speaker 1: doing this so masterfully, Tanya, is using the experience of
48:22
Speaker 1: taking action to understand things more deeply. Like a lot
48:25
Speaker 1: of times for me as a coach too, like we'll
48:28
Speaker 1: talk about, so, okay, based on what you're talking about,
48:31
Speaker 1: where you want to go, This is the place to work.
48:35
Speaker 1: Can we commit to doing, you know, X, Y, Z
48:37
Speaker 1: between now and the next time we meet again? And
48:39
Speaker 1: if somebody comes back and is like, yeah, we talked
48:41
Speaker 1: about that, but I didn't do it. There's not shame
48:45
Speaker 1: in it. It doesn't mean that they maybe don't want that,
48:48
Speaker 1: but like there are oftentimes competing goals or other things
48:53
Speaker 1: that neither of us know about yet that we didn't know,
48:59
Speaker 1: but that if we can kind of crack into that,
49:02
Speaker 1: So it did happen with that. In a really curious way,
49:06
Speaker 1: there's this whole other dimension of understanding that comes from that.
49:10
Speaker 1: But it's like people need to be.
49:13
Speaker 1: This is true for me, too. I mean, this is
49:14
Speaker 1: why I have a coach in my own life is
49:16
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that by myself. And I...
49:20
Speaker 1: I don't know what to be curious about within myself
49:24
Speaker 1: because we're all kind of like swimming in our own soup.
49:26
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? But to have somebody be like,
49:31
Speaker 1: what just happened there? And unfold it.
49:36
Speaker 2: Is so powerful.
49:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
49:39
Speaker 2: But I said at the beginning, like how we show
49:41
Speaker 2: up in one area, we're showing up in all areas.
49:43
Speaker 2: And so, you know, something as simple as not doing
49:47
Speaker 2: an assignment for coaching at the end of the day,
49:49
Speaker 2: it's who cares? You know, it's like a very small thing.
49:52
Speaker 2: But many times when we dig a bit deeper, it
49:57
Speaker 2: tells us so much more, you know? Right. about what's
50:01
Speaker 2: going on under the surface. I love it. Me too.
50:06
Speaker 1: Well, okay. This has been such an amazing conversation. And
50:10
Speaker 1: so what we were just talking about, there are experiential
50:13
Speaker 1: layers to this that are hard for all of us
50:17
Speaker 1: to crack into on our own. And there are also
50:23
Speaker 1: things that anybody could do. I mean, even today to
50:26
Speaker 1: begin the work that we're talking about here. which designing,
50:32
Speaker 1: designing your life in an intentional way. And so before
50:35
Speaker 1: we wrap up, can you just leave us with one
50:38
Speaker 1: or two, you know, ideas or tools or activities that
50:41
Speaker 1: one of our friends could like hang up this show
50:44
Speaker 1: and go do and start to experience some new awareness.
50:48
Speaker 2: You know, one of my favorite exercises is called the
50:51
Speaker 2: perfect day. I don't know who created it, but you
50:54
Speaker 2: can just Google it.
50:55
Speaker 1: Lou Reed created it. They can't perfect. I just made
50:58
Speaker 1: that he has song called.
51:00
Speaker 2: Just like download a meditation and do it. And it's,
51:02
Speaker 2: it's an exercise. Is that 10 year vision of what
51:06
Speaker 2: is a perfect day 10 years from now, but not
51:08
Speaker 2: just the one we think we want. Like, really get
51:12
Speaker 2: into it you wake up how what is the feeling
51:15
Speaker 2: of the sheets that you're waking up to what's the
51:17
Speaker 2: sound what are the smells who's the first person you
51:21
Speaker 2: see what are the you know like embody it get
51:23
Speaker 2: into it and really see what comes up you know
51:28
Speaker 2: what food are you eating who are you engaging in
51:30
Speaker 2: conversation what are you wearing to the office are you
51:33
Speaker 2: going to the office right you know um get deep
51:36
Speaker 2: into that. And I think that's going to help you
51:39
Speaker 2: see where you kind of want to go. And then
51:42
Speaker 2: you can look at where you at today, you know,
51:45
Speaker 2: and how, what, you know, just, are you there? Because
51:48
Speaker 2: if you're there, that's amazing. You know, that's what we
51:50
Speaker 2: want for you. Yeah. Um, I always find that's a
51:54
Speaker 2: great eye opener for many. Yeah.
51:58
Speaker 1: And, um, And to add, and I'm sure that you
52:01
Speaker 1: do this as well, this is so garden variety standard
52:05
Speaker 1: issue part of our work, probably don't even think about it,
52:07
Speaker 1: but even that like simple scaling question, like on a
52:10
Speaker 1: scale of one to 10, if one is like, I
52:13
Speaker 1: hate everything about this, and a 10 is like, it's perfect.
52:16
Speaker 1: How would you rate this? And okay, it's an eight. Well,
52:21
Speaker 1: why is it an eight and not a one? So
52:23
Speaker 1: we're focusing on like, what's good here? But also, why
52:26
Speaker 1: is it an eight and not a 10? And not
52:28
Speaker 1: in an all or nothing kind of way, but just, again,
52:31
Speaker 1: as a way of considering the dimensionality of it. Yeah,
52:35
Speaker 1: that's a tool that I frequently use with science and
52:38
Speaker 1: with myself, quite frankly. But yeah.
52:41
Speaker 2: I love it. And you can do it, you know,
52:43
Speaker 2: you maybe you don't want to like invest that much
52:45
Speaker 2: time into do it. But do like pick three or
52:48
Speaker 2: four life categories that really speak to that you feel
52:52
Speaker 2: you want to work on and do that exercise there. Like,
52:56
Speaker 2: where am I on this wheel? And where would I
53:00
Speaker 2: like to go? Amazing.
53:02
Speaker 1: I might do some of that later today, Tanya. I'm
53:05
Speaker 1: feeling so inspired by this whole conversation. And I really
53:09
Speaker 1: appreciate your being here with me today, with us, with
53:11
Speaker 1: our friends. You have so much wisdom and perspective. And
53:15
Speaker 1: you are in the trenches doing this work with people
53:19
Speaker 1: every single day in their careers, in their relationships, in
53:21
Speaker 1: their lives. And just to be able to I don't know,
53:24
Speaker 1: tap into some of that here with you has been
53:26
Speaker 1: so exciting. And so I will also just say, because
53:30
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to bring this up yourself, you
53:32
Speaker 1: are so humble, but, you know, I've been so honored
53:35
Speaker 1: to be able to work with you at Growing Self
53:37
Speaker 1: for years and years and cannot recommend you enough. And
53:42
Speaker 1: so just to our friends, if anybody's listening to this,
53:44
Speaker 1: they'd be like, I want to talk to Tanya. Yeah.
53:48
Speaker 1: I want Tanya to help me curate the experience and
53:51
Speaker 1: set me up with these assignments and help me do
53:54
Speaker 1: the work that we're talking about today. You know, open
53:57
Speaker 1: invitation to come to growingself.com forward slash Tanya. That is T-A-N-I-A.
54:05
Speaker 1: And you can talk to Tanya. You can schedule a
54:07
Speaker 1: free consultation session with her and more about what's going
54:10
Speaker 1: on in your life and see.
54:12
Speaker 2: If it's a good fit.
54:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
54:15
Speaker 2: Thank you.
54:16
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Well, Tanya, thanks again for doing this. And I
54:18
Speaker 1: hope to have you back on the show another time soon.
54:20
Speaker 1: You're just such a gem.
54:21
Speaker 2: And this is a lot of fun. Way too. This
54:23
Speaker 2: was a lot of fun. I appreciate it.
54:47
Speaker 1: So I don't know about you, but for me, one
54:49
Speaker 1: of the biggest takeaways from today's conversation is that finding
54:54
Speaker 1: yourself is a process. It is something that you have
54:59
Speaker 1: to invest some time into. How do we crack into
55:04
Speaker 1: our own unknown? How do we invite that quiet, wise
55:09
Speaker 1: voice to be part of the conversation again? And we
55:13
Speaker 1: talked about a lot of different strategies, things that you
55:16
Speaker 1: can use today in order to start doing that. But
55:19
Speaker 1: we also talked a lot about the blind spots, the obstacles,
55:25
Speaker 1: and how hard it can be sometimes to understand ourselves
55:31
Speaker 1: without feedback, without someone else asking questions that we might
55:36
Speaker 1: not even think to ask ourselves, much less holding up
55:41
Speaker 1: a reflection, a mirror that is creating an experience where
55:45
Speaker 1: we can understand ourselves more deeply. And I just want
55:49
Speaker 1: you to know that if that part feels daunting, you
55:53
Speaker 1: are not alone in this. There are people who that
55:57
Speaker 1: is what they do, like Tanya, who you just met today.
56:00
Speaker 1: And I think there's so much value in having another
56:04
Speaker 1: person help us slow down, you know, take a peek
56:08
Speaker 1: under our own hood and and create an experience for
56:12
Speaker 1: us that we can't create for ourselves so that we
56:15
Speaker 1: can tap back into our truth. Who am I now?
56:21
Speaker 1: But then also figure out, okay, if this is true
56:24
Speaker 1: for me, this is what I want, but this is
56:28
Speaker 1: where I am. What needs to happen in order for
56:32
Speaker 1: this thing that I want to come into being? And
56:35
Speaker 1: sometimes that is a long-term plan. Sometimes, you know, things
56:39
Speaker 1: are easy. We just rearrange a furniture, you know, put
56:41
Speaker 1: a coat of paint on and we're like back. But man,
56:43
Speaker 1: sometimes these could be macro, macro decisions that take years
56:47
Speaker 1: to unfold depending on what it is that you want
56:49
Speaker 1: to actualize. And again, it's very helpful to have a supporter,
56:54
Speaker 1: a guide, and somebody who can help you break this down,
56:58
Speaker 1: organize your actions, figure out what's the thing that you
57:01
Speaker 1: want to.
57:02
Speaker 2: Work on first.
57:03
Speaker 1: If you had this one piece in place, what would
57:05
Speaker 1: that make possible for what comes next? And that is
57:09
Speaker 1: part of a really effective coaching process. Yes, Tanya is
57:12
Speaker 1: a therapist. We talked a lot about therapy. But you
57:15
Speaker 1: know what therapy is great for, particularly traditional talk therapy,
57:19
Speaker 1: is the insight part. How do I feel? Why am
57:23
Speaker 1: I the way I am? All good. All absolutely good.
57:26
Speaker 1: And all very much part of a powerful coaching process
57:30
Speaker 1: that takes all that and then connects it to the
57:35
Speaker 1: then what, what's next. So if you would like to
57:39
Speaker 1: participate in an experience like that, I have some resources
57:43
Speaker 1: for you. You are, of course, welcome to come on
57:45
Speaker 1: over to growingself.com. That's my practice. And you can connect
57:49
Speaker 1: directly with Tanya to do a deep, deep dive. Growingself.com
57:55
Speaker 1: forward slash Tanya, T-A-N-I-A, And the very first step is
58:00
Speaker 1: just to schedule a free consultation with her, a free
58:04
Speaker 1: consultation to meet her, get to know her a little bit,
58:09
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your hopes and goals, and
58:11
Speaker 1: just see if it feels like a good fit. If
58:15
Speaker 1: it does, then you can continue moving forward, seeing her and,
58:19
Speaker 1: you know, devising that plan forward. First discovery, we always
58:24
Speaker 1: have to know where we're going, but then devising a
58:26
Speaker 1: plan forward. So take advantage of that growingself.com forward slash Tanya.
58:32
Speaker 1: All right. And so thanks again for hanging out with
58:35
Speaker 1: us today. Great conversation. I loved it. Thanks for being here.
58:38
Speaker 1: And I will be back in touch again soon with
58:40
Speaker 1: another episode of love, happiness and success.