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The GOAT Debate Is OVER: Why Michael Jordan Clears LeBron | 2011 Finals Choke, Stats & Player Reactions · Between Two Generations: A Father-Son Sportscast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to Between Two Generations, a father's son sports podcast, because raising a son is tough.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: But debating sports with me, now that's even tougher.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome back to Between Two Generations.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_04: We took a brief break, but we are back, and y'all might notice that my son's voice may be just a little bit different since a couple weeks ago.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: What do you think, Briggs?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Say hi to everybody.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: Hi, guys.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_04: I was not expecting that.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: Bro, what were you expecting?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: That right there.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_04: See, my man, my son is becoming a man.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: Talking about men, I'll tell you what, who is the greatest man of all time in the NBA?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Michael Jordan.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: That's thing, right?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: Who is not the greatest man all time in the NBA?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: LeBron.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: Now, our fans of our show know exactly where we're going with this.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: Y'all, we're about to have some fun roasting LeBron James, but we are gonna pick apart, you know what?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna be a little more clear about that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: My son is about to break down exactly why MJ is the greatest of all time, and LeBron doesn't even come close.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, LeBron sucks.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, buddy.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: Let's get right into it.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: But before we gotta give people what they want, buddy.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: Oh we gotta give people what they want.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, so here we go.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna hit you with my first one.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: Y'all know what's about to happen.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: LeBron James doesn't have a killer instinct.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: He has a let me check the roster first instinct.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_05: Boom! Roasted.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_05: Michael Jordan never needed a super team.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_05: He just turned his teammates into one.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: Woo! Ain't that the truth?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, I'll tell you what, I got another one for you.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you know what?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: People say LeBron makes his teammates better.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: Until they forget how to play basketball the second he leaves.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: Wait.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: That helps him.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_04: That kind of helps him.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that's not true either.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's not true either.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_05: That's not true.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you what, let's try this one.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, LeBron, he didn't build dynasties, he built group projects.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_05: That's truth.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_05: Bang, right there.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_05: Snap on it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_05: I get a little emotional when I talk about it, and then sometimes I get like too emotional that I go into like um very emotional mode, which includes snapping.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_05: So be ready for a lot of snaps today.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_05: Get it, buddy.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_05: Jordan didn't recruit stars.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: He created trauma and opponents.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: Ooh, he did create trauma.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_05: He's he's mentally the greatest of all time.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_05: Most weird.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_05: LeBron is like the worst mentally.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: He he actually might be.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like I'm not like I'd be happy to play LeBron because I could just like use him.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_05: I can just use him to my advantage and I'd be chill.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, you know what we gotta do?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so between now and our next episode, you and I are gonna watch the 2011 NBA Finals, aka the LeBron choke finals, and you're gonna see exactly why nobody, nobody in their right mind is gonna put him ahead of MJ.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Jordan without roster never would have lost to the Mavericks.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, I'll tell you what.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you what, I got I found a fun little soundbite of I'm gonna I'm I got the I found a soundbite of people that played against Jordan and just listen to the fear that they have talking about what it was like playing against Jimmy.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_05: Of him saying that he's um because I uh he like I think one time he said that he he like he wasn't worried because when Golden State was up on him, I mean help yeah, up on the calves.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_05: So then I think at one point he said, Yeah, I'm not worried because I am the best player in the world.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: That was MJ?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: No, that was Jordan that was LeBron.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, oh, LeBron has oh, I'm gonna find that one.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you gotta find that one.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: All right, crazy.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: Here we go.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna cue the first one about Jabron Le not LeBron, uh Jordan and his teammates and the fear.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Here we go.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: His eyes were bloodshot red.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: I swear to God, he had the orange joint.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: He still put up 40.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: How was it like playing against MJ your rookie year?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Shaking in my boots.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I was terrified being out there with Michael Jordan for a second.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: If you ain't never faced him, you don't understand.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: If you ain't ever faced Mike, you can't make that comment.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Man, I played against some of the most hard-nosed, talented players ever played this game.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: He was a phenomenon.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: And he had attitude to go with it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he was when you played against Mike, his eyes were bloodshot red every game.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like he was possessed.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I used to sit to himself, all right, I gotta go work tonight.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus is coming.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so, what do you think was your welcome to the NBA moment?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: MJ.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Pippin gets it to Jordan.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Michael Jesus! Oh, and I mean, we was just all scared of Jordan.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, that ain't that you know, when you when you show me against him, yeah, I get a little hot.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Playing against him, the one thing that I think that he was unlike any other player I've ever played against is that there was a real fear playing against him.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like people, I've never seen like the league be kind of fearful of a player or have that much reverence for a player.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: No matter who you who I looked at him, and for the first time in my life, a human being didn't look real to me.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, buddy.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's just get into it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, what what what do we got up first?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why do we say Jordan is is the untouchable greatest of all time?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: Because he just the GOAT.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I mean, if like when he when he hear of Michael Jordan, you just like think of GOAT.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like you like number 23, like if you if you're like like if we're going shopping with your mom, like for back to school or something, and if you go into like a sports store or like whatever, and then there's always gonna be like iconic in North Carolina number 23 like jerseys everywhere everywhere.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_05: It's yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_05: And then and then yeah, so I'm just gonna go into stats just real quick.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: So before we like really dive into him, like like why like I'm gonna say like why like he's the worst, like LeBron.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just gonna go like to like a quick like basis of stats.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: So basically, um MJ versus LeBron, rings like we're comparing like stats here.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_05: So MJ, so MJ has six rings, LeBron has four, finals MVP, Jordan six, LeBron four, MVP, Jordan five, LeBron four, defensive player of the year, Jordan one, LeBron zero.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_05: All um all NBA, LeBron 20, Jordan 11, which is because LeBron just played longer.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_05: And then all defense, Jordan 9, and then um LeBron 6, and scoring titles Jordan 11, LeBron 1.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_05: And then seasons 21.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I think it's like 23 season now, what for LeBron?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_05: And then yeah, 15 for Jordan.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, let's hit that real quick.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's one of the things that annoys me so much about LeBron.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: I did some research on the the the patch that LeBron is wearing this season.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: He's got 23.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: 23 on his jersey.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_05: I was scrolling for like ESPN shorts, and then um Jordan was like, I wanted to make uh I mean LeBron was like, I wanted to make Jordan proud by wearing number 23.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, you are absolutely not making Jordan proud.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_05: Like he's disgraced that you're wearing number 23.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but you know what, you know why?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: You're exactly right.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: I love that point.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know why he's got the 23 patch on his shoulder?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: Because he knows that Jordan's the goat.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, there's no other than that, yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_04: So he actually he actually went to the NBA and was like, this is my 23rd season.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: That 23 is not about MJ.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: He said, I want to commemorate my 23rd season wearing a patch on his jersey.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_05: I'm the goat.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_05: I'm the best.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_05: Is that not ridiculous?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_05: Now I have not verified that with official sources.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's my number 23 season.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's my everything.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: Roast him.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: Me, me, me, me, me.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: Get him, Briggs.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Ron.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, we can't stand him.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but yeah, totally narcissistic behavior right there.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's ridiculous.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Keep him going.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: Keep it going, buddy.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well then, so that that's like all like my basis stats that I have.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_05: So then now I'm just gonna like dive like right into um I'm gonna I'm gonna give one more like quick basis stat.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_05: So total 40 point games.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_05: I know points don't equal GOAT status, but LeBron has played like I think around seven more seasons than Jordan.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Jordan has a hundred and seventy-three 40 plus point games, and LeBron has seventy-eight.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, well, let's put some more color on that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_05: No, and and then and then they're saying LeBron's a great and and then some people think that LeBron like is the greatest scorer of all time, which is the most ridiculous thing ever.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: Because it took way more seasons for LeBron to get the scoring title, and then Jordan did it in like 12 seasons.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so current current and former NBA players, they're all dog on LeBron that he doesn't have a bag.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: That slang term.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like if if if you got another basketball player saying you ain't got no bag, what they're saying is you have no moves, you have no offensive skill.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like no one respects your crossover, your handles, and all that kind of stuff.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: The only thing people can can, you know, in a way respect, or at least in awe of LeBron, is the fact that he is 6'9, 250 pounds, and just solid athleticism.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_05: I would say he's been and he's been like and he's been consistent, and we've never seen a body like his throat and play consistently throughout 23 years.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_05: You're 100% right.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: I'll give him his respect on that.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_05: Which is totally respectful.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's definitely top three contention, but yeah, no, that is totally that's totally for sure.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: So here's here's the thing about the points too, though, is if you look at the type of basketball that they both played in the era, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: So the 90s and the 80s was so tough.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you were allowed to beat up and assault seven players.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_05: I know that Jordan had like people bring up that Jordan had a way better team.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_05: The first three years, let's just say, first of all.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: Not at all.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: You're you're right.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, they're so rude.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: Let's say, first of all, Jordan's first three seasons, the first all-star caliber talent he had was Scotty Pippen, right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_05: But then after that, it was only Horace Grant, never an all-star with Jordan, and then just a r bunch of random other guys that didn't.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: Horace Grant, we looked this up.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong were the only other all-stars that Jordan was ever teammating.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: But never had an all-star with Jordan.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: But they were only all all-stars the season, uh, the the seasons that he was retired, not even with him.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_05: So, yeah, so that's a good point.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but Jordan had to go through, I mean, this this is after the bad boys, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_05: And the bad boys were still going strong until like what, like 93, 94.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_05: But anyways, until all that dinosaur and stuff, but anyways, he had to go through the Detroit Pistons in that defense.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_05: He had to go through the Indian Pacers later in his year.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_05: Bloodied.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_05: And he had to go through Charles Barclay, who wanted to get wanted to beat him so bad, and everybody just wanted to just freaking beat him, but they know they couldn't.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: They literally, they literally planned to knock his head off when he was in the air.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_05: Literally.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_05: And how and the fact he still beat him is is just insane to me.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_05: And they couldn't stop him no matter what they tried.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so the rules of the NBA, like referees, you were allowed to physically manhandle.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like like hand checking was a thing.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's where you could put your hand on him and kind of got him with your arm and your forearm.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_04: That was allowed back then.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: But now if you and but I but now if you like poke him in the shoulder, then it's a foul.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's ridiculous.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: If you sneeze on him, that's a foul.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to keep that guy under 30 points.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was hard, but he was he was that good, man.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: You guys had what they called the Jordan rules.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is what Chuck was saying.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: If Michael goes to the basket, put his ass on the ground.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he once he got that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you gotta hit him.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta hit him.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, every time he went to the basket, we hit him.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And stuff like that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, but but uh and I say I get that guy a lot of credit, man.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like like these players said they ran, they don't really respect how tough it was to play in that era.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now how tough it is when you have when you have to go to basket and get your teeth knocked out, go to basket, get your head knocked off, and then go to basket and be on the ground and stuff like that, and all of a sudden nobody wants to pick you up.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: They don't understand that stuff, how he played.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what, though?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I said call Michael the greatest basketball player ever.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: You're exactly right.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so well, the the space and the because of Steph Curry, you have pace and space style of play now where the floor is wide open.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, LeBron should be thinking about it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_04: He's got more open lanes to score on.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: It's easier to score.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: And the defense sucks.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, defense is a good thing.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_05: And the fact LeBron does have more scoring titles with the defense that is now in the regular season with tanking and everything, is it's I mean, scoring titles again, they don't mean um they don't mean GOAT status, but like, you know, scoring scoring is a very important part of it, but it's not like the whole thing, you know?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I I have a different, a little bit of a different take.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: I understand what you're saying because I hear a lot of sports guys out there make that point that scoring titles don't make the goat, but like nobody was better at it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: He has the all-time highest averages, and like look at Carmelo Anthony.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: You remember Carmelo Anthony, dude was a stud scorer.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, even look at Kevin Durant.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: Kevin Durant's one of the top scores of all time, but no one's saying he's a goat.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: But then the stat that you hit everybody with, I think, is key.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: Nine time uh first team all NBA and one time defensive player of the year, all while every single season he played was a scoring guy.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: Both ends of the floor.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: LeBron, LeBron only committed to defense and had great defense the very beginning of his year.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: But then after that, he didn't care anymore.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_05: And here's another stat.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_05: Like, hold on, it's not a stat, but like, so yeah, Jordan, they were back, they were back to back to back 3P champions, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_05: 91 to 93.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_05: And then um after that, so it was the same team, and then Jordan left just because like, yeah, I'm gonna go play baseball.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like, isn't that that's so cool?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_05: And like that's like just like a cool.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna go with baseball because like I did enough in the case.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but then yeah, so then um so the Bulls did nothing with the same team that Jordan did.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_05: So that just proves the point.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: Because they did they did nothing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_05: They did they did they even get out of the first round of the playoffs?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: I think they did once, but then they immediately lost to the next round.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_05: Magic.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's right.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_05: Look at you, dude.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you weren't even alive then, man.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_05: You just spitting out these stats.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_05: I've yeah, the doc I've watched so much documentaries, it's ridiculous.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: It's so fun.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_05: If y'all haven't seen Holland, by the way, if y'all haven't seen The Last Dance, go watch it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's the greatest documentary of all time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, side note, my son, for all you parents out there listening to this and you've watched The Last Dance, you know the type of words that are used in there.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: I did not know my son was watching that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: Shame on me as a dad.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: Would I have led him anyway?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, I'm gonna be honest.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: It is such a fire documentary.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: I just may have.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, shoot, mom might kill me for that one.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's alright.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: Let's move on.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: You're right.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_05: Why I didn't even know there are swear words, I just like listen now.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, oh yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_05: And then I realize.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you do not have a swearing problem, so I'm proud of you, but yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: Heck yeah, bro.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'm locked.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_05: But, anyways, so you want me to dive deep, like deeper into like the rosters like throughout the seasons, like to prove my point why like the words better?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: Let's do that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: Let's do it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: Let's uh let's fade out real quick.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: We're on a road with this Jordan.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: Jordan and LeBron.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: We still got more stuff to get to.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_05: What topic you want to hit on at next?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, so I'm gonna get onto rosters because I know all every LeBron fan brings up Jordan and better roster and everything, and he didn't win until he got better players.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: But yes, listen.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: I am excited for what you got on this.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, hit us, hit us.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_05: So I think LeBron came into the league in 2003.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_05: I think so.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_05: So that was his rookie year.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so same thing like Jordan.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: The Cavs sucked.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_05: But the Jordan, but the Bulls were like the laughing stock of the league before Jordan got there.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: Were most of them on drugs?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_05: They probably were.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_05: That's what he was talking about in that documentary.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: But um, yeah, but so they're laughing stock then.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: LeBron, he didn't win until he went to Miami, which had Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosch, and Mario Chalmers in the 2011 team that lost to the Mavs in there, and Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch are still young.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: How much time are we gonna hit on that 2011?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: Because I got a lot to say.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want me to come back to that later?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_05: You can hear me do this right now.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Is now the time?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, now's the time.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, because we gotta, we gotta, so for me, there's a lot of things that make it clearly that LeBron is not the GOAT.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, and hold on, wait one real quick.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's not that like he was like it was like young like nerves, or like it was at like first finals um where like his first final nerves.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: I think he was he was at the finals before, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, 2000, I think, seven or eight against the Spurs.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: Now he was clearly unmatched, but that was his first time.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but he yeah, but he did get swept.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_04: They got like they they were embarrassed swept.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like that was one of the worst.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: But no, but no, but still props were wrong for even getting there.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_05: So that's that that that received some Yeah, but yeah, I just want to say that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: So Okay, yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: No, that's I wasn't gonna point that out, so that's actually a good point.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because some people might say, well, yeah, he collects come on, give him some give him some space because that was his first finals, and maybe he's under the pressure of it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: No, that was the second finals.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: He's had eight years in the NBA.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like, no.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that that was do you have the set on that?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: Was that his eighth or ninth year in the league?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: It was eighth or ninth.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, yeah, so you already laid out his stack squad.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, yeah, okay, Chris Bosch.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, yeah, it's on eight his teams get more insane, so just wait.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: So just LeBron 2011, okay?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of reasons why he could be considered one of the best players of all time.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll and I'll grant you that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: He's got good stats, he's good all-around type of player, sure.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: For me, he's somewhere in the top 10.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know where exactly.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: LeBron?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: LeBron is in the top 10.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And that's fair, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but there is no way, especially and maybe even singularly, because of his 2011 performance in the finals, he could never be considered the greatest of all time.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: To me, it would be a complete dis disgrace to the whole entire game of basketball.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: Not only just basketball, but it would be a disgrace to how we define a true champion and somebody that I would ever want myself personally to aspire to.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, because his performance in that 2011 was just a classic strength job.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, wait, wait, wait.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: He was mentally not tough.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_04: He shrunk.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: He he was outplayed by Jason Terry.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: Jason Terry wasn't even an all-star.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: And he was also outplayed by JJ Berea, who I think was 5'10 and just the tiniest guy on the court.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, hold on.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: Wasn't even a starter.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: Go ahead.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, can I say one thing?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_05: For sure.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: So if you're gonna read a self-help book and there's and you're at the bookstore and there's two books right next to each other.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_05: One is written by LeBron and one is written by Jordan.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_05: Which one are you reading?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's a good point.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_05: You're reading Jordan one million.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_05: Dude, did you come up with that on your own?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_05: That is fire, dude.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_05: You're gonna go to the Jordan book, obviously.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_04: That is such a good point.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm proud of you for that, buddy.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Get it, buddy.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm proud.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: Has Jordan even written a book yet?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_05: I bet he has.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_05: I bet he has something that's like motivational or something.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: There is no way that Jordan has written a book and I haven't read it, because if he's written it, I'm going for it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: Unless.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: There's no way I've missed a book.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: We'll have to look on that later.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: We'll come back to that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but that's really the essence of the point I want to make about 2011.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: So he's uh I've got the I've got the stats on that here pretty soon right here.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: So hold on.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, so I got some stats on his 2011 finals collapse.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh first they lost to the Dallas Mavericks, which the Dallas Mavericks were a solid, solid team.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I respect the heck out of that team because they were a true team.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: Dirk Nabisky was at the tail end of his career, but he was still really, really good.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_04: But they were just an all-around, well-balanced team.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: So anybody that had that is an elite performer should still be able to beat that team.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um going into the finals, the Mavericks were, most people were like, okay, this is going to be a sweep.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: They maybe were saying they would win one game.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: But LeBron, he only averaged 17.8 points per game.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: 17.8.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: Or Jordan averaged in the regular season for his career something like 30.2 points per game.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: The highest point average ever.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_05: Wait, do you know Jordan's like point per game in the first playoffs?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: That I mean the first finals that he was in.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know about his first, but I have the stat here for his overall average in the playoffs, went up to 33.8.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: So he only got better in the playoffs.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: So here, especially in the finals, his average went up to like 34 or 35.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: Dang.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: LeBron went down because he was averaging 29.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: Went down to 17.8.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: But it gets worse though.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: So if he was still taking shots and he was just missing a ton of them, because maybe you could explain that by their great defense on him, but he was still being aggressive.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: Great.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: His shot attempts went down.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_04: His passing and assists went down.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: His his rebounds, everything went down.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: So that tells you he simply shrunk.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_04: Mentally, he just simply shrunk.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Now I'm not going to hit anybody that shrinks mentally, okay?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, in fact, I give him credit because in the later finals, like against the Golden State Warriors, he didn't shrink.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: So he overcame that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna give him his credit.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: But but that to me eliminates you from ever being considered the singular greatest person of your of your sport.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because Jordan, I mean, I mean, everybody knows he didn't lose any.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_05: There's no shrinking whatsoever.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_05: Kobe's got that same mindset.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: There's no shrinking in those guys.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: I just wanted to say that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, okay.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: So, okay, so now fast forward a year.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_05: We're at 2012, okay?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_05: Same team.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_05: LeBron, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosch.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: Then you add Shane Badier, and which is a great, like um.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: He's one of the best complimentary players ever.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: Shane Badier.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_05: Stud at a Duke, and then they won versus the Thunder, but then people are like, Oh, yeah, LeBron played against tough repellent.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's like he went through the Thunder.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: With that roster versus like and and then okay, who's gonna guard?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um LeBron's gonna guard KD, right?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_05: So that's all at this point.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so then Jay so then and then um it'd been Dwayne Wade, James Harden.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Dwayne Wade, clearly.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because that was young James Harden.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, then what about Russ?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Russell Westbrook, Mario Chalmers.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: Eh, okay, I'll give maybe Westbrook a little bit of an edge there because he was so athletic.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: Terrible shooter though.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: But Chris Bosch dominated.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: They had Steven Adams.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: And Chris Bosch was elite.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: If Chris Bosch Chris Bosch had to end his career side note early because of health issues, but can you imagine a 6'11 dude that has crazy athleticism and can he he could shoot the deep three?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: If Chris Bosch transplanted himself into the league now, dude, him and Wemby would be considered the top players.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_04: Chris Bosch was amazing.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: So, anyways, yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_05: So you have that team, okay?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_05: They won versus Thunder, obviously.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: Then you fast forward another year, they get Ray Allen.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's right.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_05: They have Ray Allen.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_05: Stacked.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_05: And then they say, Oh, yeah, LeBron has the worst teams.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_05: Are you kidding me?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: Are you kidding me?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_05: That team is stacked.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then yeah, so they beat the Spurs.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_05: The next year, same whole team.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_05: They lost versus Spurs.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, bad too.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: Didn't they?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but I feel like I feel like if you compare Rodgers, they're pretty equal.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_05: So if you're gonna peek call the goat, you gotta win those series.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_05: And they didn't.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, LeBron didn't.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_05: So LeBron, if you're hearing this, step it up, bro.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: I love that that dude those are good points.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: Those are good points.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_04: So, all right, buddy.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, everyone, lock in.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: Father Son Sports Sports Pod is back.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: We're back.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: Briggs is back.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: My man.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know what this was?
• 23:57
  unknown: This was.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, Katie, Dad, no doubt.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_05: This was a six, seven.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_05: No dad.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_05: That's actually done.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it's it's over.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: Six.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: What it's been done for six, seven months.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: No, dad.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's over.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like, it's like done.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like, no.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, I am capping.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not that mad a captain.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: I am cooked.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: I am so cooked right now.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: I'm on fire.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: But I still use cooked.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: Man, I am cooking and cooked at the same time.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_05: Cooked?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, use that.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_05: That's all that.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: Beat that aura.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: We out.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_05: We out