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Does Mickey Loomis's Job Hinge On Saints Head Coaching Hire? · AFR Saints

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  Speaker 1: AFR on Demand is brought to you by Breck Golf.
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  Speaker 1: dot org. Golf dot Breck dot org. Jeff Duncan's covered
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  Speaker 1: the Saints for a long time. It's covered Mickey Loomis
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  Speaker 1: for a long time. He had a column earlier this
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  Speaker 1: week about Mickey Loomis and uh, maybe he can be
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  Speaker 1: a bit more objective than me here, Jeff, thanks for
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  Speaker 1: the time, man.
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  Speaker 2: How are you, hey, Man, I'm doing good, Bud. Thanks
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  Speaker 2: for having me on.
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  Speaker 1: It's our pleasure, Okay. Am I being too hard on
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  Speaker 1: Mickey Loomis because I just I'm at this point like
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  Speaker 1: some people get in a relationship where like familiarity breeds
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  Speaker 1: content and just like looking at his face or listening
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  Speaker 1: to the way he eats his food annoys me. Now
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  Speaker 1: I'm just very done. Should I be like am I
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  Speaker 1: being way too hard here on Mickey Loomis.
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  Speaker 2: Look, I understand the frustration, for sure, I get it.
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  Speaker 2: I think part of the issue with where we're at,
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  Speaker 2: with the state of the franchise and the maybe the
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  Speaker 2: disconnect with some of the fan base right now is
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  Speaker 2: because of, you know, the longevity that Loomis has had
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  Speaker 2: here and the you know, continuity and stability that they've preached.
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  Speaker 2: While that philosophy I think matt works when you're winning.
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  Speaker 2: When you're not winning, people want to see it changed.
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  Speaker 2: And I think there is a bit, and I've said
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  Speaker 2: this before, a bit of institutional arrogance that comes out
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  Speaker 2: of airline drive that I think doesn't help matters. You know,
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  Speaker 2: that can be a positive for Mickey Loomis and the
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  Speaker 2: Saints when things are going well. You know, we're going
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  Speaker 2: to pick out Drew Brees when everybody else in the
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  Speaker 2: league thinks he's hurt, and you know, we're smarter than
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  Speaker 2: everybody else, and you know what, they were right about that.
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  Speaker 2: But when they're not right, and I think right now
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  Speaker 2: it's hard to say they're right about much, that arrogance
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  Speaker 2: comes across as off putting and tone death, and I
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  Speaker 2: think that's where we're at right now.
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  Speaker 1: Jeff, what have they done well since Reees retired and
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  Speaker 1: Peyton left.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I actually think they've done some things better than maybe,
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  Speaker 2: And so I think what I'm getting at what Loomis
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  Speaker 2: was getting at, is there are some aspects of the
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  Speaker 2: operation that are better than maybe the results are showing.
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  Speaker 2: For instance, I would argue, and I've kind of been
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  Speaker 2: on this island for a while, that Jeff Ireland is
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  Speaker 2: one of the strengths of the organization. I think they're
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  Speaker 2: drafting can be better than the results on the field
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  Speaker 2: show up, and I think we're seeing that right now
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  Speaker 2: by Zach Bond, Trey Hendrickson, Alex Angeloni, Cayden Ellis. Those
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  Speaker 2: are all draft picks by Jeff Ireland and his staff
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  Speaker 2: that didn't find as much success in New Orleans that
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  Speaker 2: are finding success elsewhere. So I think the college scouting
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  Speaker 2: department's pretty damn good, but that management, the coaching, the
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  Speaker 2: development within the organization isn't realizing the results here on
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  Speaker 2: the field. So it's a hit an amiss, if you
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  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So I do think there's some
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  Speaker 2: things actually cautioned people a lot, Matt, because I've seen
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  Speaker 2: it happen. I saw it happen with Sean Payton in
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  Speaker 2: two thousand and six, saw that with Jim Haslet and
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  Speaker 2: Randy Mueller in two thousand. There's more talent on the
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  Speaker 2: roster than might be revealed by a five and twelve record.
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  Speaker 2: I remember when Jim Haslet took over in two thousand,
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  Speaker 2: he looked around and saw Joe Johnson, Leroy Glover, Chris Naoli,
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  Speaker 2: Cal Turley, Willie ROAs and said, we've got good lines here,
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  Speaker 2: and they immediately turned it around where the team before
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  Speaker 2: went three and thirteen. So we saw a similar turnaround
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  Speaker 2: with Sean Payton and guys like John Stinchcomb that were
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  Speaker 2: labeled busts, and he's found a way to get the
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  Speaker 2: most out of him. So I think if they hit
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  Speaker 2: on a home run higher here, and that's a big,
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  Speaker 2: big gift. But if they do, I do think there's
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  Speaker 2: more talent here than maybe we're seeing on the results.
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  Speaker 1: Are there names players that you think are better talent
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  Speaker 1: than the way they're performing right now? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, look, I don't know if I can pull
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  Speaker 2: them out the top of my head, but I mean
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  Speaker 2: Zach Bond's a good example, you know. I think a
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  Speaker 2: year ago at this time, if you'd have told Saints
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  Speaker 2: fans that asked Saints fans, is he a bust? They
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  Speaker 2: would I'd say eighty ninety percent would say yes. And
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  Speaker 2: I never thought he was going to be a first
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  Speaker 2: team All Pro, but I definitely thought he was a
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  Speaker 2: talented player. And lots of times guys get in a
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  Speaker 2: system where they're not being used, right. I mean, that
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  Speaker 2: was a streak of Sean Payton. I know I always
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  Speaker 2: sound like I'm I'm waiving the flag for Sean Payton,
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  Speaker 2: but he taught all of us here. I think how
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  Speaker 2: what it looks like when it's done right. And we
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  Speaker 2: saw a functioning organization with good coaching would take players
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  Speaker 2: from other organizations and find a role for them in
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  Speaker 2: New Orleans and they would be productive, functioning players. We
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  Speaker 2: saw a year after year after year, and they weren't
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  Speaker 2: always superstars. But you get a David Patton, you get
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  Speaker 2: a Billy Miller. You know guys that would come in
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  Speaker 2: and find a role and be productive because the coach
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  Speaker 2: and the staff had a vision for them and played
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  Speaker 2: to their strengths as opposed to letting their weaknesses be exposed.
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  Speaker 2: That's coaching. Matt, and I just don't think it's been
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  Speaker 2: going on here for a few years now.
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  Speaker 1: Jeff Duncan's with us on Twitter at Jeff Duncan underscore
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  Speaker 1: and Jeff, you're porn about the draft. I agree with
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  Speaker 1: I've made that point. They've drafted well, they've just done
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  Speaker 1: a very poor job of retaining that talent, choosing who
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  Speaker 1: to pay or being able to pay, because they've mismanaged
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  Speaker 1: the cap, and in my opinion, that all points directly
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  Speaker 1: back to Mickey Loomis. Am I wrong?
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  Speaker 2: No, You're a one hundred percent right. I've been saying
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  Speaker 2: for years. You know, I have a lot of respect
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  Speaker 2: for Mickey Loomis in his ability to run an organization
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  Speaker 2: as far as knowing the cap, and Ky Harley is
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  Speaker 2: one of the best too, But their philosophy I think
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  Speaker 2: is completely wrong. I think that works when you're trying
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  Speaker 2: to win a Super Bowl with Drew Brees at the
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  Speaker 2: end of his career and you're going all in. I
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  Speaker 2: get it. That hadn't been the case for four years, Matt.
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  Speaker 2: It's not like the Saints are some geniuses and have
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  Speaker 2: found something that no one else knows. Every team in
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  Speaker 2: the league knows. You can do this. They all choose
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  Speaker 2: not to because they realize there are consequences and costs
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  Speaker 2: with your roster that come along with this style of management.
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  Speaker 2: The Saints aren't, you know, geniuses or pioneers in this area.
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  Speaker 2: Everybody knows how to do these voided years and restructures.
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  Speaker 2: They choose not to for a reason, and we're seeing
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  Speaker 2: why in New Orleans right now. And it's been going
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  Speaker 2: on for too long. And frankly, there should have been
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  Speaker 2: more criticism before this year or last with how this
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  Speaker 2: thing's being managed.
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  Speaker 1: Is Mickey Looms too comfortable to change?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think he's changing incrementally,
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  Speaker 2: but I don't know if he's changing enough to get
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  Speaker 2: this thing turned around. I'm just being completely honest. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I think bringing in Randy Mueller and Dave Ziegler guys
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  Speaker 2: like that to kind of not be yes men, because
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  Speaker 2: I do think there's a little bit of a concern
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  Speaker 2: that he's surrounded by all the people he hired and
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  Speaker 2: they're all going to be deferential to him. And I
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  Speaker 2: know one thing about Randy Mueller, He's not going to
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  Speaker 2: tell Mickey what he wants to hear. He's not afraid
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  Speaker 2: to give an unfavorable opinion to him. He hired Mickey Lemis,
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  Speaker 2: so Mickey used to work under him for a long time,
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  Speaker 2: and I think that's a good step in the right direction.
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  Speaker 2: I think they could do more of that on airline drive.
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  Speaker 2: That's what I was getting at postseason saying they need
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  Speaker 2: to make changes, They need to get some fresh ideas,
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  Speaker 2: some different ways of running things in that building. The
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  Speaker 2: strength of the Saints is also the weakness of the Saints,
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  Speaker 2: and that is their tight knit insolerity of management in
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  Speaker 2: that department. And we've got a lot of locals that
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  Speaker 2: work there that know the New Orleans department, new Orleans market,
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  Speaker 2: but they're not the Pittsburgh Steelers, Matt, That's who they
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  Speaker 2: compare themselves to all the time. It's similar, and there's
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  Speaker 2: kind of a family run operation, a mom and pop
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  Speaker 2: of the NFL, but they don't have six Bombardi trophies.
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  Speaker 1: I agree with you, Jeff, that it's time for some
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  Speaker 1: new ideas, but I am of the opinion that includes
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  Speaker 1: Mickey Loomis. Is it time, in your opinion, to move
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  Speaker 1: on from Mickey Loomis and finding your general manager.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think it. I don't first of all I
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  Speaker 2: wrote that the other day, it's not going to happen.
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  Speaker 2: So whether I say it's time or not, I think
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  Speaker 2: it would be certainly prudent to consider that in ownership
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  Speaker 2: and management, it's nothing else. Have Mickey move into a
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  Speaker 2: role similar to Rich McKay in Atlanta, where he's still involved,
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  Speaker 2: still certainly valued in sort of you know, consulting or
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  Speaker 2: overseeing the operation, but not the guy running the day
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  Speaker 2: to day, you know operation. But that's not going to happen, Matt.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just not He's he's really committed to
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  Speaker 2: writing the ship here, and I understand that. I think
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  Speaker 2: he feels disappointed that Dennis Allen didn't work out, and
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  Speaker 2: he understands that it's his responsibility to kind of fix this,
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  Speaker 2: and that's what he wants to do. I think before
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  Speaker 2: he moves on, I had someone in the organization tell
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  Speaker 2: me Mickey's not going to move on when things are down.
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  Speaker 2: If he moves on, it'll be when things are going
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  Speaker 2: well and he feels good about the direction.
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  Speaker 1: The column from Jeff is I like it or not,
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  Speaker 1: Mickel Loomis isn't going anywhere. But the interesting thing about
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  Speaker 1: about that Jeff is that's the way that you phrased
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  Speaker 1: it is to suggest that it's Mickey Loomis's decision when
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  Speaker 1: he leaves, when in actuality, there's an owner of the
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  Speaker 1: team who can make that decision. So why won't Gail Benson.
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  Speaker 1: That's a question I have. I just don't know. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not on the I'm not on the inside. Why why
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  Speaker 1: is there such a hesitance seeming hesitance to hold Mickey
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  Speaker 1: Loomis accountable for It is very clearly a failed approach
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  Speaker 1: at running this organization over the last half decade.
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  Speaker 2: Well, as I pointed out in the column, and I think,
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  Speaker 2: you know, some people maybe are aware, maybe they aren't,
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  Speaker 2: but he's not the typical general manager. He's heavily involved.
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  Speaker 2: He's embedded in the hierarchy of the organization. It's such
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  Speaker 2: a deep level because of the unique situation with Gail
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  Speaker 2: Benson and how she got in control of the teams.
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  Speaker 2: We all know that it was highly publicized, the Benson
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  Speaker 2: family feud and the division and the ranks. And I think,
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  Speaker 2: if you want to use the term made men, there's
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  Speaker 2: some made men on Airline Drive that stided with Gaile Benson.
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  Speaker 2: And she's going to always be loyal to that group.
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  Speaker 2: Now I would say this, I think Dennis Lauosia, who's
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  Speaker 2: the president of the organization, could make that call just
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  Speaker 2: as well as Gail Benson. I mean, he's a very
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  Speaker 2: powerful force in the organization. He basically is running the
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  Speaker 2: organization on the day to day level, certainly the business side,
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  Speaker 2: and he was heavily involved in the dismissal of Dennis
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  Speaker 2: Allen he and Gail Benson. So do not underestimate Dennis
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  Speaker 2: Lauscha if it got to that point, make him a
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  Speaker 2: call like.
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  Speaker 1: That, because we all know Dennis is he's the executor
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  Speaker 1: of her estate as well. So when Benson passes, Dennis
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  Speaker 1: Lauschi will be the one that handles the sale of
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  Speaker 1: the franchise and all that, which is a great point. Jeff.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think last thing? Well, actually two more things
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  Speaker 1: if I can. Number one, do you have a feeling
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  Speaker 1: on what direction is completely different? What direction to go
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  Speaker 1: for the for head coach?
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  Speaker 2: Now you know, look, Micky's playing that close to the
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  Speaker 2: best he usually does. I would say anything you're seeing
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  Speaker 2: out there is strictly speculation that would be coming through
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  Speaker 2: the agent community because Mickey does not talk, and especially
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  Speaker 2: on matters of this importance. So I think they're still
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  Speaker 2: early in the process. I know they are, Matt. They're
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  Speaker 2: going to go through interviews all the way up. I think,
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  Speaker 2: you know, they can get second round with Aaron Glenn
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  Speaker 2: and people that are in the playoffs. So I think
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  Speaker 2: this thing's got a ways to go, and I don't
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  Speaker 2: think they've zeroed in, you know, to name a front
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  Speaker 2: runner right now with anybody. There's just too many interviews
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  Speaker 2: left to, you know, to perform before they get to
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  Speaker 2: that point.
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  Speaker 1: Realistically, how long of a rebuild is this for the
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  Speaker 1: Saints to get back to relevance.
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  Speaker 2: That's a great question, and I think it's much longer
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  Speaker 2: than what Vicky Loomis thinks.
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  Speaker 1: I agree.
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  Speaker 2: You know, he said he thinks they can turn it around,
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  Speaker 2: and he's right. In normal circumstances, you hit on the
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  Speaker 2: right head coach, you have a great offseason. It can happen.
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  Speaker 2: But man, they've got a lot of things that have
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  Speaker 2: to go right, not just the head coach. You've got
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  Speaker 2: to hit on a staff. A very underrated part of
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  Speaker 2: this hire is ken this coach get a staff in here.
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  Speaker 2: That was something that was overlooked in the Dennis Allen
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  Speaker 2: High He did not have a very good staff. Frankly,
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  Speaker 2: they were okay, but Sean Payton could bring in Mike
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  Speaker 2: Nolan and Dan Campbell and Aaron Glenn and you know,
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  Speaker 2: coaches of that caliber that were on the staff working
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  Speaker 2: under him. His ability to attract talented coaches, that's a
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  Speaker 2: big part of this hire. They've got to be able
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  Speaker 2: to find somebody that can do that, and then they've
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  Speaker 2: got to get the salary cap cleaned up where they
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  Speaker 2: can fix the roster. So they've got to hit on
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  Speaker 2: a lot of things, and that'll be difficult. It's possible,
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  Speaker 2: we saw it happen in six but very unlikely in
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  Speaker 2: my opinion.
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  Speaker 1: I can talk forever. Nola dot com is where you'll
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  Speaker 1: find his stuff, right call him up about Mickey Loomis
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  Speaker 1: right now for Monday. He's on Twitter at Jeff Duncan underscore.
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  Speaker 1: Y'all go give him a follow. Thanks, Jeff, always appreciate
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  Speaker 1: it man anytime.
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  Speaker 2: Man, Thanks for having me on Bud