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SMNTY Classics: Mexican Gothic · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and welcome to Stefan Never told
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: you a production of iHeartRadio. So for today's classic, we're
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: bringing one back that I really hesitated to bring back
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: because it's really new in terms of when we bring
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: back classics. But I loved this book, and we are
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: in Hispanic Heritage month and we are in the time
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: where I'm wanting to devour all things creepy, and I
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: just yeah, I really really enjoyed this book and it
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: fits all of the criteria. As far as I know,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the show isn't out yet. I did a brief Google
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: search before this and I didn't see it, so that's
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: still that's still on the horizon. But if you miss
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: this the first fir time, if you haven't read this book,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: really recommend it and please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not good with Stephan
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Never told you protection of iHeartRadio. And today we have
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: a Halloween.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Edition of a book Club. Ooh, I'm very excited about this.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: But before we get into it, I just have a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: question out of curiosity to Samantha. When you read books,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: do you picture like actors are people that you know visually?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: When you read or hear like a character's description.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: No, I have a vague, ghost like picture of them,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: and does have a generic picture of what they look like,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: but they're they're never of someone specific.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: I've thought about this before because when things turned into movies,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: are they I'm like, oh, that is not who I pictured,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: But I can't tell you exactly because it's not I
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: go by what they say, but it's not ever of
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: a person that I know.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that's really interesting because lately we've seen
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: kind of a spate of people creating programs that are like,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: this is what the character would really look like based
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: on the description.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I always have, like an actor or somebody.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I have, I have a clear picture in my head,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and I just feel like that this book was very
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: descriptive and very easy for me to kind of put like, oh,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: it's this, so it's this, so it's this, and I
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: just it really painted a picture.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: In my head for me.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Okay, who did you picture?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I could tell you, but it would I would
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: have to look up all the actors' names, because as
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not good with actors names.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: That's fair, But I could do it.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I could do it, and I think it's part of
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: that is also just the cover art can influence that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I've seen some stuff from the show. They're they're shooting
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a show about this for Hulu, so some of that
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: can influence it. I remember, like when Harry Potter came out,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I had such a strong.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Like in my brain, who everybody looked like? That?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: When the movies came out, I kind of almost had
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: like a breakdown is too strong of a word, but
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: it was like a war in my brain of like
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: who do they actually look like? And they sort of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: all kind of came together and created a composition of both,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: which is really interesting. But I can still remember, at
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: least for a lot of the big characters what they
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: looked like in my head versus what who.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Was actually cast.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: So I just always find that interesting when people tell
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: me like, oh, I always thought this character would like
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: look like this person or this person or this person.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And listeners, if you have any thoughts or experiences about that,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: please let let us know, because I really am interested
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: in it. But today we have to issue a spoiler
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: alert because we are going to spoil the heck of
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: this recent book because we're talking about Silvia Monino Gusse's
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty novel Mexican Gothics. So it's pretty recent and
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. If you don't want to be spoiled,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: leave now, go read it.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty quick reread and then come back and
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: then come back. And it was very, very successful.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: It was critically acclaimed, and yes, is now being made
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: into a show for Hulu.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: A content warning.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: We are discussing a little bit of eugenics, suicidality, general grossness, death.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Murder, cannibalism.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: We're not getting too much into any of thatens llucinogens.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is true.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: It's so funny sometimes when we put the like content
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: warnings together and like this is making it sound so
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: much worse it's going to be.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: But I just don't want to miss.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Anything, right, But yeah, all those topics are on the table.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: If that gives you a taste for what this book
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: is about.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it does have influences of Jane Austen and
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Emily Bronte, which I wanted to talk with you about,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: right because before we recorded this, Samantha, one of the
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: reasons I was like, I think we should do this
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: one was because I know you like Gothic, and I've
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: read did it kind of had some stuff to do
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: with like Jane Austen Emily Bronte, So I was like,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I think Samantha will like this one. I'm interested in it.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And you said before like you got that vibe right.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Right immediately, like I was like, oh, is this supposed
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: to be a retailing of Weathering Heights because it's kind
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: of that all ominous bit with and it's true with
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: like the head of the household haunting the entire home
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: type of thing. So yeah, I was like, Okay, this
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: is definitely that. And then they actually make mention of
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: the authors and I was like, there, it is perfect.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't say Jane Austen necessarily, because Jane Austin was
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: not in Horror in any way whatsoever or the Darkness,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: so I don't think that would be true of it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: But the Bronte sisters for sure, Mary Shelley maybe even
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: which sounds like Katerina loved those authors as well, but
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: you know that's further down the road. But yeah, I
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: was immediately the style of it, the way that it
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: sets up the characters, boy, that it sets up the
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: romance very ominous you know something's going down. You know,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: she's walking and thinking everything's fine, and they're like, oh,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: nothing's okay, and.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: It's a trap. Like that's the entirety of the.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Thing, And much like the Bronte Sisters, the home has
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: a huge part in being part of the darkness.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very like I said, the author does a
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: great job of painting a picture because immediately you can
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: see like this fog and they're going up this hill
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: and there's this old mansion there, and there's just something
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: off about it. Like the atmosphere was excellently done. And
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it did remind me of the Bronte Sisters of things
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I've read from them.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: I know, so they enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very much.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Oh I did too. I really enjoyed it. I was
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: telling everybody about it and like what are you talking about?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Like you got to read it?
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it really draws you in. At least that
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: was my experience. It was kind of immediately like who
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I want to know?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: It painted these really vivid and often unsettling or disturbing images,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and yeah, much of it does take place in this
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: decaying mansion that is shrouded by fuck.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: So the environment is a big piece of it.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: It is very atmospheric and very excellent building tension because
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, something's wrong. Something's wrong. I don't know
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: what it is, and something's off. Just all these little things.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh, all right, so let's get into the platte.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: The story takes place in nineteen fifties Mexico and follows
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Noami Taboada, a young, beautiful, clever, stubborn, witty social light
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: who dates for fun is studying anthropology. Kind of gives
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that vibe of someone who's like trying a lot of things,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: but is really into anthropology at this current juncture. After
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: receiving a bizarre letter from her cousin Katalina, claiming that
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: her English husband, a Virgil Doyle, is poisoning her, Noami
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: leaves Mexico City for the Doyle home, which is called
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: High Place and it's located in the mountains outside of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: a small town called El Trionfo And Miami does this
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: at the behest of her father. Her father is like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: you're so stubborn, You're so determined. I know you can
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this. Something is wrong.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Well you please go and look into this.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: And I really want to read the letter that they
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: receive from Catalina that starts this whole thing, because I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: think it gives a really good vibe of like the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: writing and what's going on. Okay, he is trying to
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: poison me. The house is sick with rot, stinks of decay,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: brims with every single evil and cruel sentiment. I have
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: tried to hold onto my wits to keep this foulness away,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: but I cannot, and I find myself losing track of
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: time and thoughts. Please please, They are cruel and unkind,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: and they will not let me go. I bar my door,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: but still they come. They whisper at nights, and I
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: am so afraid of these restless dead, these ghost, fleshless things.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: The snake eating its tail, the foul ground beneath our feet,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the false faces and false tongues, the web upon which
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: the spider walks, making the strings vibrate. I am Catalina,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Catalina Taboada, Catalina, Kata Kata, come out to play. I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: miss Noemi. I pray I'll see you again. You must
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: come for me, know, Ami, you have to save me.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I cannot save myself as much as I wish to,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I am bound threads like iron through my mind and
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: my skin, and it's there in the walls. It does
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: not release its hold on me. I must ask you
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to spring me free, cut it from me, Stop them now,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: for God's sake.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Oo too.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: And now, knowing the end, I'm like, oh she.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Was saying, she's saying it, yeah, all of it. So
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Nimi is transported to the High Place by Francis Doyle,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: and the road is treacherous and misty, and upon arrival,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: she's immediately unnerved and annoyed by the strict rules of
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: the house, largely imparted to her by Francis's mother, Florence.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: She's not allowed to visit her cousin without a chaperone.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: There's no speaking at dinner, no smoking, which, by the way,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: Nimi smokes. Yes, she's one of those cool girls that
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: like the way you picture it, they describe it. She's
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: one of those cool girls and things like that. Florence
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: clearly does not want her to be there, and the
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: house itself isn't welcoming either, dark and decaying with patches
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: of black mold. Also, they are very behind in technology,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: uses lamps, oils, oil lamps and candles.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: There's no radio, there's no TV.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Everything is a little dark and they like it that way,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: just so you know. And yes, it's the kine with
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: patches of black molds every where. Even the wine is
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: clothing and almost rotten, too sweet over the top. The
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: head of the house, Howard Doyle, is old and ill
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: and inappropriate. Miami is informed that Catalina is suffering from tuberculosis.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: But she is.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Unconvinced. And yeah, by the way, Francis is someone important
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: and they are. She tries to flirt with him at
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: the very beginning.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: She does. She does, and you can tell he's like, oh, yeah, this.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Is He's not been around many women.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: So once Miami is permitted to see Catalina, she begs
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Miami to get her a tincture from a woman in
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: town named Marta Duval and by tricking the family because
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: they're pretty sure, they're like, you can't go it's too
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: high to get up here, you can't go down. So
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Miami tricks the family and is able to get a
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: ride into town and to walk around unhindered, and she
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: goes to talk to Marta, who tells her that the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: family is cursed, and that one of the Doyle, Ruth,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: killed several of the family members, shooting Howard before taking
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: her own life.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Howard survived.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: In another instance of Francis' father, Richard, was found dead
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: in a ditch near the home. Noami then goes to
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: visit the local doctor, asking him to come to high
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: place to give a second opinion on Catalina, and the
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: doctor is really reluctant because he's like, Oh, I'm not welcome.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: They don't want me up there.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And Howard himself has made recent racist comments about how
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: none of the locals are competent, but he ultimately agrees
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the local doctor agrees to come and give his opinion.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And let's step back a bit and talk about Howard
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and the Doyles at large, because all right, So, during
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, British companies and families flooded into Mexico
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: in order to take advantage of local resources. The Doyles
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: in this book are one such family, and the house
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: is near a once profitable silver mine that was later flooded.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: There's this cemetery on the property with some of the
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: bodies of people who died working in the mine. They
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: are to reopen the mind, Noami learns, and she suspects
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that they intend to somehow make Catalina docile in order
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to use her money without her complaints. Howard frequently speaks
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of quote superior and inferior types and of survival of
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the fittest, and keeps books on the subject around. Something
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that angers Naimi, which in turn seems to amuse Howard.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: So the local doctor confirms that it fits tuberculosis. It's
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: unlike any he has ever seen. And by the way,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: when Miami was in a town and meets with Marta,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: is too because Catalina sends her to her as the healer.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: She's a healer and gets a tinture to Catalina. Finally,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: but oh dear, it calls to have a seizure and
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: makes the Doyles even stricter about when Naomi can visit her.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Of course, they all play the victim kind of gas
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: lighter hmm. Naomi starts having disturbing dreams and visions of
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: a gold woman, a buzzing coming from the walls, the
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: mold moving, pulsating and almost calling to her, and her
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: dreams that seem real, unpleasant ones that seems to almost
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: drug her to having sex with Virgil and wakes up
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: to after she hears place of open her eyes. She
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: starts sleepwalking, something she hasn't done since she was a child,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: and feels that she's losing her grip on reality early,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: similar to what happened to her cousin, and she begins
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: to suspect that Catalina may not be ill and the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: house is haunted or at least coming for them.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, as all of this is happening, know Ami and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Francis do grow closer, Sincenomi has to smoke outside. They
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: walk around the misty grounds together, and know Ami learns
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that Francis, who is definitely the black sheep of the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: family studies mushrooms and insects, is well read and interesting.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Know Ami, who has enjoyed many relationships in the past
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and continues to enjoy like it's kind of funny how
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: often she'll be sort of like, she's not my usual type.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: She feels herself growing closer to him. However, he is
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: still somewhat distant and warns her that speaking Spanish is
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: not allowed in the home and that they can hear
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you that she should leave. He's clearly like very on
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: edge and worried about her. This is underscored by other
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: comments from the family like smoking, Hurt says just things
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: like that it's very sketchy.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: So growing increasingly frustrated and disturbed, too afraid to sleep,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: and feeling cut off. After Martha disappears, Noimi decides to
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: send a letter to her father requesting he's send help
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: or at least trying to go out and get help somehow,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: trying to leave the place.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: She's done. She's done with this place. She needs to
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: get out.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: But the night before her departure, the Doyles informed her
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: they'll have one final dinner together and that she must
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: see Howard before she leaves.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: To NOI me, he's horror.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Howard is covered in boils, one of his legs bloated,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: and he is clearly on desk door and by the way,
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: he's like she had imagined she was going to come
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: into him being tucked in as sickly. No, no, he's
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: naked and showing off all his boots, including the boils,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: and the smell of his body is terrible, and she
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: tries to flee, but Virgil and Florence forced her to
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: hit her knees in front of him, and he kisses
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: her really grows by the way, making her swallow with
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: the black liquid from his mouth that stains his teeth,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: that gets literally oozing out of his face, and she
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: feels incredibly ill and passes out, having visions h No.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: When she wakes, Francis is in her room watching over her,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and she is understandingly furious. Francis explains that Howard is
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: actually hundreds of years old. He at one time he
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: was quite ill and determined to find a cure for
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: his illness, so he found locals in this area who
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: were using a strain of mushroom to heal themselves. Howard
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: exploited this and formed a symbiotic relationship with the mushroom
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and part after eating the infant of a local woman
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: who had used the mushroom, obviously against her will. Many
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: others who partook died, but Howard believed his survival meant
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: he could use his medicinal knowledge to make himself a mortal,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and to accomplish this requires a number of things. So firstly,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: the house is infused with the mushroom.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: The air inside is full of spores.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: It heals the family in there and makes their lives
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: last longer. It is what has been calling ton Ami,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: dulling her senses, making her want to give into Virgil's
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: advances and wants her to become part of the family. Secondly,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the exploitation of the working class in order to fund
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: their internal lives is something that they have to do
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to achieve this immortality.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Thirdly, they need children.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Howard didn't want to quote dirty the bloodline, so he
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: decided to have children with his sisters. Lately, though, the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: women of the family have not been producing as many children,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: and Howard, to Florence's chagrin, believes introducing new blood like
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Catalina and Noemi, who are combatible with the fungus, is
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the key to their survival. The visions Noemi has been
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: experiencing are what they call the gloom, which is essentially
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: a hive mind or like that kind of spiderweb thing
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that Catalina described in the letter at the top. Since
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the mycilium is connected and bodies can serve as mulch
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: for it, it has absorbed the memories of those before it,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and that means that Howard can transfer himself into a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: younger body. It also kind of explains like the haunting
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: it's sort of like these memories that you experience in
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: the Gloom. Francis tells Noami in Spanish that he will
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: help her gather supplies because again they don't understand Spanish,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and that the tincture disrupts the effects of the spores
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: but must be used sparingly. No amis hesitant to trust him,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: also understandable, but agrees on the condition that he helped
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: rescue Catalina too, and later she also decides he should
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: leave with them. Francis informs her that the fungus keeps
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: them from leaving, that that is what happened to his father,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Richard when he tried to escape.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: That's how he ended up in that ditch.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: She may be able to leave, but he is part
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: of the family as and much longer exposed to this fungus,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: will not be able to But Miami does not give
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: up and communicates with the women before her in the Gloom,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like through her dreams, to try to find a solution
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to this. Frances gives her the tincture and a razor
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: blade after she asks for a weapon. Noaimi attempts an escape,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: but only makes it a few meters outside before the
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: house and the fungus makes it feel like she can't breathe.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Virgil carries her inside and humiliates and harasses her. She
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: is told she must marry Francis, who in turn instructs
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: her to play along. That their chance of escape will
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: be when Howard's body dies and he transfers his consciousness
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: into Virgil. That Ruth weakened all of them when she
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: killed some of the family and attempted to kill Howard.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, Ruth is one of the daughters who hated
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: the process.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: I guess all the women kind of hated it, except
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: for Florence, correct from what I can gather, Like we
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: find out Agnes later on.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get a real read on Agnes.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell if she like willingly sacrificed herself or
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: unly sacrificed.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Yah are all important, But yes, the women were not happy.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Ruth was one of them that was very not happy
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: and tried to get out. Try to kill everybody did
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: not work. So all these things happened. Ruth was the voice,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: by the way that said open your eyes. One of
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: the things that that was interesting. The pair Francis and
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: uh Nymi are married and they prepared to escape. However,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Francis is detained and Virgil reveals he drugged them and
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: makes clear he desires to make annoy Ami his Noami
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: fights him off, knocks him off, taking a sip of
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: some of the attentionure, and retrieving the razor. So all
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: this happened while Virgil was pretty much attacking and accosting her.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Catalina has them too, and they go to find Frances
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: only to discover his mother is coercing him to giving
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: his body to Howard, so it was always France's and
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: not Virgil.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Oh dear the plan.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Miami tries to stop him, and Florence attacks her, who
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: was really strong at this point, leading to Francis killing
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: her row. Catalina stabs Howard in the eye because she
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: comes awake and alive and starts stabbing the hell out
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: of him, and the trio flees into the mines and
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: tunnels as the house shudders around them, and they feel
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: the pain because Howard's in pain and Francis is struggling
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: under the influence of the fungus as well.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: It's bad, Yeah, it's not good.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: So they find Agnes's grave and Agnes is one of
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the sisters, one of Howard's sisters that he that he married, Yes,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: that he married. They find her grave and no Ami
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: realizes that she was sacrificed, buried alive so that the
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: fungus could have a human mind. And that's something Howard
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: like determined that it needed, was this human mind. And
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: she exists as a living, waking nightmare, a body to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: grow spores out of so Howard can control his family
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and others in their orbit.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: No Amy tells her to open her eyes.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: She tells Agnes to open her eyes, which, yeah, just
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: as she has heard in her visions. Virgil reveals that
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: he always intended for Howard to die and now wants
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to truly take his place, because yeah, Virgil has just appeared,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and he wants to use Catalina and know Ami for
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: childreness like Howard. Catalina says Virgil in the eye, and
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: no Amy sets the body of Agnes on fire. All
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the mushrooms start to burn and the trio scapes down
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the mountain. They are cared for by the local doctor,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: though Francis takes several days to wake. When he does,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: he reveals he has a dream of high place and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: better condition than ever, that he is locked in and
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: unable to escape its opulence. They also kind of question,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: like if you burn mushrooms a lot of times mushrooms
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: grow better out of the ashes, which also gave me pokes.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh but anyway, uh no. Amy tells him
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: it was just a dream and promises to take into
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Mexico City where they can be together.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: The end, it was ominous ending.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, so I must ask, do you
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: know anything about Hillo series?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I don't. I think it's the ten part series, that's all.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: Okay, So it's gonna be a limited series.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Are they going to try to open it up like
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Game of Thrones and we're all gonna be disappointed?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I don't think, so, okay,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: just check it. But it was I mean, it was
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: definitely to me, it felt like it there was room
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: for a sequel, and this is the reason rogue.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: So she did leave it open unless if they could
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: be haunted by this, as if there's going to be
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: a call for them, because there's also like the whole
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: legends that a lot of the miners were burned alive
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: on purpose or purposely killed let to die so they
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: could be fertilizer.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: For those yeah mulch mulch they.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Were called yeah yeah, Okay, well just get into the themes.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Then, let's get into the themes.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: One of the big themes, yes, is using women and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: using the working class. So I wanted to start with
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: this quote. No Amy, like any good socialite, shopped at
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: the Palatio Derio, painted her lips with Elizabeth Arden lipstick,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: owned a couple of very fine furs, spoke English with
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: remarkable ease courtesy of the nuns at the Monticeta, a
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: private school, of course, and was expected to devote her
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: time to the twin pursuits of leisure and husband hunting. Therefore,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to her, any pleasant activity must also involve the acquisition
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: of a spouse. That is, she should never have fun
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: for the sake of having fun, but only as a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: way to obtain a husband, which would have been fine
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and well if father had actually liked Hugo. But Hugo
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: is a mere junior architect, and Miami was expected to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: aspire higher. So I want to include that because this
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: is right in the beginning. Hugo is this guy she's
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: attracted to. She's hanging out with this costume party in
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: the beginning, And I feel like this code is a
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: really good example of a lot of things we talked
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: about in persuasion. But you know this idea, you have
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to get a husband, that's your whole goal. You have
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: to get a good husband of good standing. But this
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: was sort of this whole book was sort of the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like horror of that. This whole book was, Oh, Catalina
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: did that, and now she's trapped in this night like
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: living nightmare where she's basically just a just a shell
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: of her past self and someone to use for money
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: so that they can open their mind again.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And they're trying to do that to know am me
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: as well, and.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Also just someone used to create, pro create to get children.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: This is like this whole statement of like, oh, you've
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: got to find a good husband, that's your whole point
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: in life. This book was like whoa, Okay, but look
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: at the horror right.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Well, also, you have to remember the reason she came. Yes,
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: she wanted to save Catalina, but the bargain was that
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: her father was going to let her go to the
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: university to continue to study in theothology. And the only
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: way she could do this was by doing this favor
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: and her mother was very disappointed and the fact that
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: she wanted to go and said the line that is,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: you're supposed to be a debutante to wife and anything
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: in between was a distraction from the true purpose.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: So like, that's.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: The entirety, Like even though yes, they're a little more normal,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: I guess is the word, but like this at this point,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: that's the whole purpose of women in Mexico. And she
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: was talking about the fact in the nineteen fifties Mexican
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: women were not even allowed to vote, so of course
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: this made sense. This is their livelihoods. But yeah, the
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: tragedy of it is holy crap. Look at what happens.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: We become a who old trap and we become sacrificial to.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: The patriarch, which is that conversation?
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Ye, right, And this is the line girls were supposed
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: to follow a simple life cycle from debutante to wife
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: to study further when we mean to delay the cycle
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: to remain a chrysalis inside a cocoon. And yeah, exactly,
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: that's that line. She was not cool either way to
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: being just herself.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: There was a part of me that when I was
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: reading it, like you never really get to see Catalina
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: before she's induced to this state.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: But the way that annoying me to describes her as
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: she was a very vibrant woman, kind very kind like
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: she was a very just.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Lively interesting person. And now you just see her and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: she's in bed and kind of like a very shell
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: of herself. And no Amy, I felt was a very
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I thought interesting hero. And I thought she was like, Oh,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: she's funny, she's witty, she's charming, she's got these interest
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and faults and all this stuff.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: And I liked her a lot.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And then to see her like, again, I could be
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: reading way too deep into this, but to see her
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: kind of pulled into this marriage she did not want,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: which is what happened to a lot of women. And
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: to hear you're going to be used for children and
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that's it. To see her reduced to that was like, oh,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: this is kind of what we were asking of women
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: a lot at this time in marriages. Was like, you
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: make yourself smaller, you reduce yourself, and you are secondary
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: to whatever.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: The man, the head of the household needs.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, here's another quote. Mister vascal Esos makes it very
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: clear that the unattractive will not procreate. Beauty attracts beauty
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and begets beauty. It is a means of selection. You see,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: I am offering you a compliment. So this is by
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Howard and he's being all creepy, which is often all
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the time, but that was throughout the book too. Is
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: kind of really reducing people to genetics. That's where this
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: whole idea of like superior and inferior and genetics comes in.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But it's just really grows. It's just really gross or.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: To hear them talk that way, and to know that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: this guy has lived a hundred years and is really
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: looking at it as just like, how can I prolong
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: my life in the life of my family?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: How can you play a role in this right?
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: And the thing is like, I don't think it's just
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: even his family, it's just his life. So he just
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: needs to use the children for him to continue to live.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Which I thought was interesting too because I feel like
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: that's you know, we've talked about this before, but that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: idea of your children being more a representative view than
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: actually something like you're you're more concerned about how they
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: represent you than themselves, And that was definitely shining through
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: in this in this book, because yeah, he.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: You know, I just realized I thought Fences couldn't be
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: his next in line because that wasn't his kid. Yes,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: it was his grandkid, but not his kid. I thought
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: it had to be his kid.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I think they thought so, but they were so desperate.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Oh so they because they didn't. Why didn't he use
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Virgil just.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: For because he liked Virgil better so.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: Vert, but that was his actual kid.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, but he wanted Virgil to like, he actually wanted
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: him to live and have his own life because he
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: was the quote better one. So Francis was more expendable.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to try it with him, and if
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: it doesn't work, then I'm sure they would have gone
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: for Virgil, which is why, probably why Virgil was like, no,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to kill this guy.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Because yeah, if I remember correctly, it was never like
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: it had to be his kid or something.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I think they really tried to keep it very in
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the blood, and this was there like, oh god, it's
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: not working.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: We have to branch out because we're dying off desperate.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: That was a sidetrack, yes, yes, but here's another quote
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: to underline this point. A woman's function is to preserve
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: the family line, and I think that that was throughout, Yes,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: this idea, we need the women to have the children.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: But after that, like that's all they're they're all, they're good.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: And you see this suffering of Agnes especially which again,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: as I said, I wasn't clear, and maybe it could
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: because I read this in one sitting because I was like, oooh,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I wasn't clear. I felt like Agnes did agree to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: sacrifice herself.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: She was like, Okay, I'll do it.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: But then after because essentially involved bearing her alive, right
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and so in that she was in that process, she
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: was like, Okay, maybe I didn't want this or maybe
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I was wrong, but throm that the spores grow and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the mycilium grows, and so it's like her living nightmare.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: But it's the pain of this one woman who was
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: keeping this whole thing alive.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And she's, yeah, she's having this nightmare.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: It's really pretty disturbing and descriptive of when you finally
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: realize what's going on and how it describes her as
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: just this like trapped woman who is just in this
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: nightmare and that's her whole existence, and like to have
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: that woman's pain at the suffering of all of.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: This, at the heart of all of this I think is.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Pretty telling about how we treat women. It's something we've
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: talked about a lot in our horror things about how
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: we'll just use women's pain for all kinds of things.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: In this case, Yeah, and then something else is definitely
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the suffering and expendability in the minds of this family
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: of the working class, because the servants are seen as
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: kind of like test cases for this fungus. Are either
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they are husk like they are literally servants that are
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: living in the house that are just kind of hollowed
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: out and controlled by this fungus, and that is what
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: kind of props them up up. You got the miners, yeah,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: who who are buried, So just using people in that
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: cool way and throwing them away. And then there was
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, especially in the beginning, because I
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: would say this book took a turn in the middle
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: about what you thought where it was going. Maybe you
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: knew it was ominous, but you weren't quite sure. But
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: there was a whole there's a whole lot of stuff
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I noticed about women navigating men and social situations. So
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: here's a quote I wouldn't say demanding exactly concern, more
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: like she replied taking care to smile to show him
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: this was really a small matter that might be easily resolved,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and it must have worked for he nodded, And I
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: just remember reading that being like, so, yeah, this is
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: still we still talk about doing this stuff as women
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of like you got to put on your smile, You
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: got to manage this man's anger and his expectations and whatever.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And you know, at first when she first gets there,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: like you know, something's off, but she's still trying to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: be and still trying to get what she wants by
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: managing these people. And you just see so many instances
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: of her having to deal with like real nonsense and
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: having this fear of what will happen if she doesn't placate.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Them, right, She definitely has to control her temper ayes. Yeah,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: And then there's another quote. It bothered her to be
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: thought of poorly. She wanted to be light. Perhaps this
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: explained the parties, the crystalline laughter, the well croffed hair,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: the rehearsed smile. She thought that men such as her
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: father could be stern, and men could be cold like Virgil,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: but women need to be liked or they'd be in trouble.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: A woman who is not light as a bitch, and
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: a bitch can hardly do anything. All avenues are close
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: to her.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, but she she definitely had like an
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: inner war of She was very strong willed, so she
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: felt this, tried to do this, tried to into this,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: all of these customs and expectations around her, but in
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the end was ultimately like, no.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I need to see my cousin.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: You're not listening to me, Like got fed up. But
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I did think that that was interesting. And here's another quote.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Then you won't help me. You're afraid of them. Oh
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and here I am without a friend in the world,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: she said, clutching her purse and standing up slowly, her
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: lip quivering dramatically. Men always panicked when she did that,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: afraid she'd cry. Men were always so afraid of tears,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: of having a hysterical woman on their hands.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I just thought that was funny. She's clearly learned the game.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: You're right, well, the woman hysterical woman has been had
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: been used again when they were trying to when she
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: was trying to talk about how do I get my
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: cousin AULI here, I think we're just too hysterically.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I thought that was a really I
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: liked that twist where she has that moment of like,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: maybe Catalina is perfectly same and there's something wrong in
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the house.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: Right, there is something wrong here.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really really liked that. Yeah, just to note again,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I thought know Amy was a badass. If it's not clear,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I really liked her a lot. There was a lot
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: of stuff that we've talked about before in horror of
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: not believing women, dismissing women, gosslining women. Here's a quote
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I want you to go know, Amy Virgil says, she's
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: been asking for you. She here being Catalina. Besides, I
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: think this is a matter that maybe best handled by
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: a woman. It might turn out that this is nothing
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: but exaggerations and marital trouble. It's not as if your
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: cousin hasn't had a tendency towards the melodramatic. It might
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: be employed for attention. In that case, Why would Catalina
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: is marital troubles or her melodrama concern us, she asked,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Though she didn't think it was fair that her fatherly
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: old Catalina melodramatic. She'd lost both of her parents at
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: a young age, one could expect a certain amount of
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: turmoil after that. So this is early in the book
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: where knowing Me and her father are talking about whether
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: or not knowing Me should go visit Catalina. And I
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: thought this was interesting where she's sort of immediately like
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: defensive of Catalina, like she's, oh, no, I agree, something's
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: going on here. I don't think she's being melodramatic, like
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: maybe I don't want to deal with it, but she
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: does become very productive of Catalina. She's a big defender
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: of Catalina. She won't leave her behind. So I did
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: like really seeing that where she was not ever like,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: oh I think she has lost her mind or oh
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I think she.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Was always always thinking, oh I remember how she was.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: This does not match with how I remember her, and
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to just dismiss her. So I really
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: liked that, especially like the doctor. So the Doyles have
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: a doctor that they use who turns out to he
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: kind of like influenced by the fungus as well, and
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: he's so dismissive of Catalina and of no Amy.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: He's he's a part of the family, Yes he is, but.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like they kind of like don't treat him
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: that way, but yes he is.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, he's like he's a descendant of them, so
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: therefore he creeps close to them.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, and he's incredibly dismissive. And you also see Virgil
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: laughing at Noami's suggestion of the psychiatrist, which was also
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: racist because yes, again this was that whole thread through
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: line with the Doyle family of like, oh, the vocals
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: could not possibly have like a therapist, that would be ridiculous.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And then like when you see the blurring of dreams
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and reality and the gaslighting, because they knew what was
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: going on. They knew what was happening to know, Amy
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Catalina went through the same thing. I don't think we
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: said it, but Catalina tried to get away too, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: just playing on like oh, you're sleepwalking again, or maybe
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: something's wrong with you, Oh maybe your stressed, like turning
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: it on her.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: They also blamed her for catalina seizure, which had happened before,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: and they, you know, did not relay that part at all.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: They're like, wait, you knew this, and you're trying to
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: pretend like I did this on purpose, and then you
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: said it was op opioids and yeah, that was none
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: of that that doesn't you are every bit as the
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: gas lighter of the entirety of the thing, and they
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: bade her feel so guilty that she felt guilty and
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: therefore was like I almost killed my cousin.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: They were very very effective at cas slighting, especially with
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the dreams, because they would kind of try to get
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: her to admit to the dream and kind of succumb
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: to the dream, and when she wouldn't, they would be like, oh, no,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: it was just a dream, even though she had a
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: real sense that it wasn't and she was right, but
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: they would just be like, oh, no, you walked into
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: my room. What There was also the idea which we
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: talked about before, of no Ami building off of the
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: work women have done the past. So she was able
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: to hear these other women like Ruth and later Agnes
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: and hear like what they went through, and they would
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: talk to her and try to give her advice as
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the story progresses, and then no Ami is sort of
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: able to take that advice and use.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: It for them.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And yes, as we said, feeding off a woman's pain,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: because that's sort of what this whole thing was about, literally, yeah, yeah,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: including eating children, yeah yeah, And then there was a
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: lot of weaponizing of sexuality, especially against na Amy from
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: what we see, a lot of using her desires against
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: her because she is which may have been planted, yes,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: very much influenced by the fungus. But she was somebody
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: who likes, she likes dating, and she liked being with men.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: If I'm remembering quickly, she had never actually had sex
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: because she was too worried about the reputation, what they
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: would say about her.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: But she did like like that aspect, she.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: Flirted, but then also she would lose interest after a
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: couple of days.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: But Virgil in particular, you see him manipulating and dehumanizing her,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: her harassing her, trying to make her feel certain ways.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Here's a quote another pretty Girl for his collection, which
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: is something that was said about Howard, I believe about Miami,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: but kind of this idea of like, oh she's pretty,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: let's bring her.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: In, which yeah, because that's the whole Like if Francis
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: had been possessed by Howard, that would have made her him, yeah,
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: which was that intent. And then Virgil soon on talks
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: about how he was going to take her for himself essentially,
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: and then when Frances came to her rescue essentially or defense.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: He was that we can share her.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: Oh. I was like, oh yeah, no angry, no, no, yeah.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Just talking about her, Yeah, like she's an object. This
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: gross nasty. There was a lot of stuff about family
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: in here. We've already talked about a lot of it,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I would recommend reading it for more because
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: it's sort of hard to break down. But I mean, essentially,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: you've got this fungus family and the family and the
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: drama within and uh sort of the tears within of ideology.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And then you've got, as I said, know, Ami and
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Catalina annoying me, really not giving up on on Catalina.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And then yes, there's a lot of stuff about eugenics
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: and racism, the superior inferior ideas, natural selection, immortality, there's incest,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: good blood versus bad blood. There's wanting to use Catalina
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: no Ami for different sush heart of your blood, the
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: whole idea of uh no Ami and Francis speaking in
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Spanish because they never bothered to learn Spanish, as.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: In fact, it was almost forbidden yah, and that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Is forbidden the house.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of imagery around the snake eating its tail,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: so like it's just a circle of this creature eating itself,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: which is sort of what is going on here with
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: trying to keep this bloodline going. And it's all of
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: this is rooted in sexism, misogyny, racism, and colonialism, this
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: family and their immortality.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, and they should be noted that they obviously the villains,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: and this is the Englishman coming to Mexico to take
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: advantage of the silver mines which they've always made their
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: money in. Yes, that is bigger than a metaphor beally
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: more obvious.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I think so. And then I wanted to end on
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: the horror because this book is really very good, like
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: getting under your skin. It's really creepy. I really really
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: enjoyed it, so I just want to include this quote
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: to close it out, so you kind of get a
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: taste of what's going on here. Next to Miami, the
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: wall had started to quiver, beating to the same rhythm
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: as a golden woman beneath her. The floorboards pulsed to
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: a heart alive and knowing the golden filaments that had
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: emerged together with the mushrooms, covered the wall like a
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: netting and continued to grow. She noticed then that the
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: woman's dress was not made of place, but was instead
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: woven with the same filaments. The woman raised a gloved
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: hand and pointed at Knowaimi. She opened her mouth, but
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: having no mouth, since her face was a golden blur,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: no words came out. Noami had not felt scared, not
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: until now, but this the woman attempting to speak. It
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: made her indescribably afraid, a fear that traveled down her
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: spine to the soles of her feet, forcing Noami to
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: step back and press her hands against her lips. She
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: had no lips, and when she tried to take another
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: step back, she realized that her feet had fused to
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: the ground. The golden woman reached forward, reached toward her,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: and held Noimi's face between her hands. The woman made
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: a noise like the crunching of leaves, like the dripping
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: of water onto a pond, like the buzzing of insects,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: and the pitch black darkness, and Noimi wished to press
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: her hands against her ears, but she had no hands anymore.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Nimi opened her eyes, drenched in sweat. For a minute,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: she didn't remember where she was, and then she recalled.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: She had been invited to high place. She reached for
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: the glass of water she'd left it by the bedside
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: and almost knocked it down. She gulped down the whole
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: glass and then turned her head. The room was in shadows,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: no light, golden or otherwise dotted the wall surface. Nevertheless,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: she had an impulse to rise and run her hands
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: against the wall, as if to make sure there was
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: nothing strange lurking behind the wallpaper.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I love it. I really really enjoyed it.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: It was very good.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, highly recommend great Halloween read.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Great all the time read uh to be honest, and
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: it's got a lot of going on that we didn't
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: even talk about.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, check it out.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Uh if you're if you're interested and you haven't already,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: And as always, we're looking for those recommendations for our
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: next book club. You can send those to us at
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: our email, which is Stephanie your mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I Ever told You.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Chris do No,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. Perspection of I Heart Radio for more
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