Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Meta Muse A.I. Agents Need ETH 🤖 SharpLink CEO Interview

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Meta Muse A.I. Agents Need ETH 🤖 SharpLink CEO Interview · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Meta had a big announcement. And of course, the question is,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: how is this play into blockchain? And one of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: biggest blockchains that might be involved in the agentic revolution.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: And that is Ethereum. Let's take a look. Before we
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: get started, I want to thank our sponsor.
• 0:13
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• 0:48
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• 0:52
  Speaker 1: can get away from the banks. I wanted to bring
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: back to the show Joseph Shalom coming in from SharpLink.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: How are you, Joseph?
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Doing great. Happy to be back. And this is going
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: to be a fun topic today.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: So big announcement from Meta. They had their Meta Connect
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: announcement just yesterday. Most of that was built around a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: small little Muse device. And I think within that, it
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: starts to move into a question on how is this
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: going to affect a Gentic for the consumer crowd? Because
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: you've got now Meta going at it maybe with a
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: different angle. When you look at what happened yesterday with
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Meta and possibly Meta going maybe not on chain for
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: agentic involvement, which will eventually include payments and so on.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: And then you look at this right here. This is
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: something you guys put out. And I want to highlight this.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: This is the biggest.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Winner in the $ 4 trillion agentic revolution. And I'm going
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to blow up this graphic right here. I'm going to
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: go down here that says build something new. And you'll
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: notice there's Circle, Coinbase, Ripple, Binance, Tether, Kraken, and then
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: agents that will be built by companies like Anthropic, OpenAI.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Google Meta.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So when you see that and the opportunity here, Joseph,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: explain to me where you see Ethereum playing a big role.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: So the meta announcement around Muse, we're going to look
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: back and see that as critical in the evolution of
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: agents helping consumers. That may be more in your personal life.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Book me a dinner, help follow up on bills and
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: the like. We're really focused on what comes next. You know,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: you had AI, generative AI, now agentic. We're focused on
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: agentic finance, which means for the first time in history,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: there will be an agent working on your behalf and
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: every technology revolution changes something. In this case, agents actually
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: give you unbelievably strong attention spans that don't exist in
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: today's society with financial literacy. So the idea that an
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: agent can understand your financial life, your interest, and then
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: take actions to make your cash more productive, your portfolio
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: more fulsome, rebalance it, and do really important things like
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: get you a better mortgage, get you a better credit card.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Muse is going to start doing that in many elements
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: of your personal life. In agentic finance, it's going to
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: happen in your financial lives. And it'll start very slow.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: And it's going to be more impactful than almost any
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: financial tool we've seen. It will need neutral rails to
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: make sure that the agent works for you as opposed
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: to for another company. And Ethereum is going to end
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: up playing a very important role as that uncensorable neutral
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: rail that your agents can run on to support you.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: So OK, so with what's happening with Meta, And what
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: you're talking about with the Gentic finance, finance, of course,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I think needs that settlement layer.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Ethereum plays that big role there.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But you look at Meta, which has been very close
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to the vest in the past. Do you think it's
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: going to be a situation where Meta is going to
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: kind of use their own proprietary network, their ability to
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: handle whether.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: It will handle payments? We'll see.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And it is really going to just be training the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: consumer so that they'll trust it in the financial agentic space?
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Is that kind of the connection?
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: I think it'll start there. But as soon as companies
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: like Meta or Robinhood or others want these agents to
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: do financial transactions for their community and users, they need
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: a different set of rails. They need programmable money, that's
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: stable coins. They need to access assets in a tokenized fashion,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: that's tokenized real-world assets, And in order to move that
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: money and execute, they probably have to be on chain.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Not all payments, credit card payments don't need to be
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: on chain. But if there's an agent trying to help
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: you with your financial life, they need access to your
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: entire financial life. And they need to be able to
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: execute at a gentic speed. That requires blockchain technology. I
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: think meta will start in your personal life. But again,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: when it gets to your financial life, it's going to
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: have to be on chain. And Ethereum and other blockchains
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: are poised to benefit for this. but for the benefit
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: of the consumer, not for the corporate chain.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: So with that being said, and you consider, is this
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: an ETH versus Meta? What you're saying is this is
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: more of Meta eventually will utilize something like an Ethereum
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: blockchain when they're ready to graduate into more complex transactions.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Is that what I'm getting?
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. They need speed of light, programmable money, and that
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: happens on-chain. not on bank rails.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I want to play a clip here because this is Zuckerberg.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Kind of sparking a little bit of a meme coin
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: season here, but let's take a look.
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: To that jolly and completely customizable character and personality. That
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: little guy's name is Jolly, by the way. We believe
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: that Muse will make you money with the expectation that
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: over time we will profit by taking a small fee
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: from transactions.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: Let's get back to work, Mark.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Jolly, of course, is now being traded out there on
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the meme side of this. But a couple of things
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: within some of the things that came out around Muse,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a feature alert. You've been asking for this one. Your
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Muse is getting its own email address. Add that to
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: a thread, forward stuff, et cetera. This is going to
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: be something that the question mark, I think, is still
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: out there as to whether or not.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: People will trust this.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: As they are now starting to question, do I trust
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: it with my finance world? Granted, it's very early on
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: in agentic finance and also just agents doing other things
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: for us. Do you think this is something at some
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: point is gonna pit Ethereum as an ecosystem versus Meta
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: as basically a distribution hub?
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: No, I think the trust question you asked is critical.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: It took our parents time to trust e-commerce. It took
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: us time to trust agentic and generative AI. But I
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: think what you're going to end up seeing, and this
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: is really important, you're going to trust things where they
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: can do no harm. Meaning if you have an agent
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: who wakes up every day, sees your paycheck get deposited,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: and you're in idle cash earning a fraction of a
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: percent of interest, it will move you to another account
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: that gives you three and a half percent. It doesn't
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: take a lot of trust for that to happen. When
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: it rebooks your flight at a lower fee, you'll trust
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: it to do that. It will take a little bit
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: more time than executing transactions on your behalf like trades.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: And it'll take more time before you trust your agent
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: to borrow and lend. Over time, every time we have
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: a technology revolution, we're a little bit wary about the guardrails.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: But if we have the right principles in place and
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: your agent's working for you and eventually It starts with
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: a human in between to make the decision, but eventually
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: you'll trust your agents to do things within your delegated authority.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: And Paul, this is really important. This could be one
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: of the biggest booms for consumers in terms of saving fees,
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: generating more interest, having lower rates of borrowing. So I
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: don't think it's a muse versus Ethereum. I think what
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: it may end up becoming is the traditional banks and
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: insurance companies versus Robinhood and meta and anthropic. One has
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: an interest in serving and protecting their own fees and moat.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: The other one is there to help consumers have a
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: better experience. So I think it's going to be the
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: incumbent financial players who have trillions of dollars of fees
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: at risk versus the disruptors who are here to build
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: a better outcome for their consumers. And they may take
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: a fee, but that fee will pale in terms of
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: the benefits that their consumers will get.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I would agree with that, Joseph, in the sense that
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: there's a huge vacuum right now on fees, especially from
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the traditional finance players that have been out there. They've
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: been gouging, I think, consumers for quite some time. But
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: here's my question. When you look at companies like Anthropic, Meta, Google,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: we'll look at XAI, et cetera, you could pretty much
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: put all of them in one bucket. And my question is,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: what if they decide to do something on their own?
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got XAI pushing out X money. You've
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: got now Elon even going out with X numbers. You've
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: got Meta launching this device here that is more of
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a personal AI device. Anthropic, I imagine, will be doing
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: some similar things as will OpenAI. Why would they leap
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: into going on the blockchain if they can go out
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: and build something different?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: That's the question I have. What do you think?
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Sure. I think it goes back to... two points I
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: made earlier. One is for just basic agenda capabilities where
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: you don't need to audit it, you're not interacting with
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: someone's money, you're just helping them with their email or
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: their travel plans or calling people back almost like a
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: personal assistant, which is, I think, going to be the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: first use case. You don't need to be on the blockchain,
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: but as soon as you want money to move in
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: an instant, you want it to be auditable. You want
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: it to have access to your portfolios, to your loans,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: to your mortgages. Those type of transactions need to run
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: in a very, very controlled manner so that it's very
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: clear the agent works for the user and the agent
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: doesn't work for Anthropic and Facebook and Meta and others.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: So I think that is the key distinction. I think
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: in every financial revolution we've ever seen, Paul, it starts
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: the same. An amazing innovation, lots of competition, benefits for consumers,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: but we saw it from railroads to telecom to internet
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: browsers to social media. It ends up having a couple
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: of concentrated winners, and the consumer ends up becoming the
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: business model. I think we have an opportunity with agentic,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: especially in finance. We know the revolution is happening. We
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: have a year or two to actually put guardrails in
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: place so the trust is there, not for regulation's sake,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: but many environments like the pharmaceutical industry blossomed because you
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: had regulation. We need that in place today. And I'm
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: generally not a pro-regulatory kind of guy, but I think
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: it's in the interest of all these players to have
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: rules and open standards so that it doesn't have one
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: or two winners that control your financial life.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Joseph, are you at all worried about this
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: trust ecosystem that has been failing most, I think, almost
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: every American out there in many different ways? We won't
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: go into the details of those. But one of them
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: has always been around mostly social media platforms. Meta dead
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: on in the center around trust. Then, of course, this
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: gets out there. Meta has been quietly using contractors, human contractors,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: now to handle some of the phone calls made through
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: its AI agent. Bad deal for Meta. because this, of course,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: raises privacy concerns. This gets distrust in the community and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the retail consumers out there. And then you have all
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: of this AI FUD that's happening almost daily on every
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: major network out there. That's my question, is when do
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: you think that trust level will be at a point
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: where an average consumer will say, yeah, I'm going to
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: let it run my 401k and manage my Fidelity account
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: over here because I trust it?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I don't think they will until there are guardrails in place.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: It's very different to give up a little bit of
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: your personal data to have a social interaction with somebody.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: You might give up your vacation pictures, Paul, in order
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: to share them with others. I think there need to
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: be guardrails in place. And I think the three are
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: basically very simple. One is your agents work for you,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: not for whoever is the infrastructure or the corporate chain
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: behind it. Second is your agents have to have a
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: persistent identity. They need to be able to go across
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: different silos, across different companies and still represent you. When
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: they leave Muse, can they operate in another ecosystem so
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: they don't forget your interests? And I think the third
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: thing is very, very important is that these agents have
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: accountability to you and that you always know what authority
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: you gave them and no one can change the time
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: limits or budgets or the scope of what you allow
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: them to do and start doing things outside your control.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: So I think we're going to need to see a
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: little bit more trust. I'm old enough, Paul, to remember
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: the early days of the internet where we all clicked
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: on privacy policies. And then a year later, you realize
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: they're using your data in a way that you didn't understand.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: So it'll take more education, trust, and standards.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we became the product very quickly, unfortunately.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And that is the issue. So you mentioned identity. I'm
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: assuming you're alluding to ERC 8004. So explain that a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: little bit for our audience, because I think this is
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: an important level up in terms of using the blockchain.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the first idea is very simple. Your agent
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: who represents you should be able to work across different ecosystems.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: You shouldn't have to have a different agent who forgets
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: your identity, who forgets your history, who doesn't understand your
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: preferences Just because you're moving from Citibank to Fidelity to
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Muse to Anthropic, it needs to be an agent with
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: persistent identity. The second thing is really, really important. We
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: can't create walled gardens where anyone can exclude your agent
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: from being involved in competing. Otherwise, we end up just
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: having two or three big winners. And so what ERC8004 is,
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: it's an Ethereum standard where it lays out the rules,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: how agents can be trusted how agents can trust one
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: another without actually knowing who's behind the agents. Like I
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: have a reputation when I go on eBay that I
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: can pay and the eBay seller has a reputation that
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: they're going to deliver without knowing who the other party is.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: And this allows agents to trust one another based on
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: reputation without having to disclose identity. These are the type
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: of standards that are going to be built to make
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: sure that the agents work for you and not for
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: some corporate chain. And I'm being very direct. We need
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: to not repeat the errors of other financial revolutions and
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: make sure the consumers end up becoming the net winners,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: even if they rely on big technology companies to help
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: them with their financial lives.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: So you have what we're showing here is 8004 Scan,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: which is really the agents on chain right now. You've
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: got BNB.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Leading the way right now. Ethereum number three.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And if you look further on down here, you see
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Robinhood starting to move, obviously with its young chain, but
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: accelerating into agent use. So that I could see being
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: a big part of this. And to your point, this
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: would change things quite dramatically. What does this look like in, say,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: 12 months from.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Now, Joseph?
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: In 12 months from now, I think there are going
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: to be crypto native or technology native companies, the likes
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: of Robinhood, Coinbase, Circle, Meta and others who are going
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: to build super apps, Paul, that have access to every
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: element of your financial life. They'll know your deposits. They'll
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: let you earn. They'll have access to your credit cards,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: your stocks and bonds and funds, to your mortgages, to
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: your insurance. And while they may not control it, they
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: will have agents that are seamlessly involved to understand your
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: preferences who are, while you go to sleep, they're going
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: to take your idle cash and move it to a
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: higher yielding account. When your auto insurance comes up for renewal,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: you're not going to forget about it. They're going to
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: be able to bid that out to make sure you're
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: getting the best coverage at the lowest fee. And when
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: eventually mortgage rates drop, they're going to wake up in
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: the morning and say, wait, I can refinance and repay
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: my mortgage. I don't need a mortgage broker. So these
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: super apps, which have access to your financial life and preference,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I think are going to challenge the large financial institutions
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: who think of every element of this as different apps
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: and businesses. And the biggest winner should be consumers. It
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: will take trust for that to evolve to autonomous financial lives.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: But over time, when people see the benefits of this,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: I think you'll see these challengers wipe out trillions of
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: dollars of banking fees and financial services fees that are unjustifiable.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Last point, Paul, we saw when Skype came out. in
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: 2003 and calls became free, no telecom company could charge
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: you long distance. With stable coins and agents who can
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: move your money in an instant for free, why are
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: people paying 6% to move their money across borders when
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: the new benchmark is free? And you're going to start
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: seeing these new narratives and it's going to save consumers
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: trillions of dollars.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Well, and you've got company after company gouging for immediacy,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: even all the way down to payroll companies, gouging for
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: instant transfers to companies like ADP, et cetera. There's been
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of that has happened outside of just what
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: we're seeing in the traditional banking system. I'm talking about
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: almost every financial sector out there.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: So I would agree.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Here's the ecosystem map here. My question is, Will chains
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: become hubs of expertise? You can kind of see the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: scale leaders in here, the service hubs, where the core
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: infrastructure would end up being, obviously right there with ETH
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: and Gnosis, emerging ecosystems that are coming.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: What do you think here, Joseph?
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: I don't think we should be in a world where
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: one chain dominates everything. I think there are going to
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: be a series of chains who in different domains have expertise.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: I believe very strongly, and Sharplink has been built on
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: this conviction, that Ethereum is winning the capital markets use
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: case and is going to be winning a lot of
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: the agentic finance use case. But there are other great chains.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Solana is doing well in meme coins. Others are doing
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: well in payments. Others will do well in specialized fields.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: We should live in an omni-chain world as long as
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: those chains are truly decentralized and no one person can
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: change the rules of the game. And Ethereum is that
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: leading decentralized blockchain where it's not owned by anyone. And
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: you can trust that the rules won't change. But I'm
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: not suggesting there should be another infrastructure monopoly. We're going
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: to live in an omni-chain world and each will have
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: a specialization. Ethereum is where the liquidity is and where
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: capital markets is. And that's why you've seen ETH, the token,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: rally over 70% in the last three months because they
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: see institutional adoption and agentic finance coming. And that's why
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: we're here to help investors get access to that opportunity.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: The 70% run in three months means we're going from
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: narrative to production to mass adoption.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Well, you have BlackRock out there with their report. Most
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: everybody has probably seen this, the machine native economy and
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: what they're talking about is connecting intelligence to commerce and compute.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I want to go down to page six on this report.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: for some of you guys that are maybe listening to
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the audio version of this. And this is kind of
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a diagram of the payments protocols that are out there.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And when you look at them, these are a lot
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: of the same companies. Visa is mentioned in here, Google, Stripe, Coinbase,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Now, some of these, yeah, could ride on
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: something like an Ethereum blockchain, but for the most part,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: they don't really mention it. So do you think this
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: is something where they're still learning in the essence of
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: how this is going to be constructed in the future?
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts there?
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I spent 20 years at BlackRock. It's my former
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: home and second family. I think the point they're making
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: is when you look at agentic commerce and finance, and
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: it was very clear, they're not going to run on ACH,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: which is a 1975 Federal Reserve money movement standard. They're
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: not going to work on credit card rails. And it
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean that every transaction has to be on the blockchain.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: But if it needs to move instantly, like cross-border payments,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: or you need to pay somebody peer-to-peer, or you're involved
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: in some financial transaction, it needs to be auditable. And
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: agents need to have that 24-7, always-on, programmable money. That
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: is what agents require. They're not going to wait a
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: day to move money from agent to agent. So I
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: do think the BlackRock report acknowledges that ACH and card
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: networks are not the future. But I think we're in
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: the early stages of discovery. That's why I've been writing
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: about the importance of not falling into the traps of
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: prior financial revolutions where you end up having three or
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: four gatekeepers. This has the promise to help consumers achieve
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: full prosperity because agents provide full financial literacy and they
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: have full attention spans. And Paul, I don't know about you,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: but my attention span is not on at night. So
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: I think the BlackRock report is reinforcing our belief that
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: commerce and finance will be run by agents on behalf
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: of the consumer, not on behalf of the corporate chains.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I want to jump over to a clip. And this
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: is in reference to mobile, because mobile essentially is going
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to be the new device for all things compute, including finance.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: This is Qualcomm's Snapdragon for AI.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: The AI smartphone is here. From a single device to
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: intelligent experience across your entire ecosystem of devices.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Snapdragon can now run 30 billion parameter mixture of expert
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: models directly.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: From flash storage. is actually we have now clarity what
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: an AI smartphone look like. We've been talking about that
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: for a couple of years. We now have to design
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: chips to allow the phone to be working even when
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: you're not operating it and with an all day battery
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: life and a lot of AI at the edge. But
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: for those things to be possible, there are two things
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: are gonna be very, very important.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Trust, you have to.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Trust the agent and the AI is gonna be working
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: on your behalf. And then you have to have low friction,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: otherwise you do it ourselves.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: All right, so you mentioned two things, ease of use,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: low friction, and trust, which kind of layers into the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: privacy side of things. When you consider privacy and you
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: look at the expansion of Zcash, really, which has kind
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of taken over the privacy narrative, do you think Ethereum
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: eventually can reposition as a privacy chain in the future?
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: So I think Zcash is a great product. It's a
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: great protocol. It arose... Because most of the other blockchains
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: were really focused on security, winning new customers, and were
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: more retail oriented. Zcash is really important because the largest
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: institutions in the world want to trade on chain, stable coins,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: tokenized assets, participate in DeFi, but they don't want to
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: give up their identity. So Zcash you can think of
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: as a specialty protocol that will give you additional privacy.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: I think what you're seeing is that Ethereum and other
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: chains are catching up. And their roadmap includes native privacy features.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: So the idea that you can just opt in to
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: have a certain transaction have privacy. So the transaction is
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: still written on the blockchain, but it doesn't disclose who
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: the transactor is on either side. I don't think that'll
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: be the default, but I think over the next year,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: you'll see most chains, but particularly Ethereum, build privacy as
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: an option features in. And Zcash will continue to be important.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: but you won't need a specialty chain to add on
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: privacy features to your transactions. I think institutions are going
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: to require the opt-in to privacy or opt-out, either way.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: And that will help adoption accelerate.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Joseph, we have been watching AI agent meme coins. And
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: this has opened up, I think, an opportunity. I'm just
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: showing you the Mancer illustration here. You can kind of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: see some of the stocks that are trading out there.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: And when you look at something like a Tesla, which
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: is available out there as a tokenized stock, available right now,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and you look at the meme coin agents that are
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: essentially running underneath this stock, they go out and buy it,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: trade on it, and then, of course, they get stimulated
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: to go out and promote it and pump these tokens,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: hence the Tesla stock. And you can kind of see,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, they get pretty creative on this. Do you
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: think there is a potential here for this kind of
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: thing to happen at much more scale?
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: I think it's a temporary moment, the way GameStop was
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: a temporary moment several years ago, because I think there's
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: a difference between owning the actual Tesla stock, Paul, where
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: you have all the same rights to vote and dividends.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: You actually own the stock in tokenized format versus what's
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: happening a lot are people creating synthetic versions or wrapped
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: versions of the stock. You actually don't own Tesla. You
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: own some sort of promise. And what we're seeing is
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: like a very short term arbitrage where agents are stepping
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: in and saying, wait, there's a price difference between the
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: actual Tesla stock and the wrapped meme version of it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to step in and run some trade
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: to try to capture some of that difference. I think
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: that'll get collapsed over time. You saw that with the
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: HIMS stock. and I won't use the acronym for the token,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: it's inappropriate, but it was a temporary moment where you
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: had exuberance. I think the more interesting thing is that
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: agents who understand your goals and preferences will actually be
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: able to build you better portfolios and borrow against it
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: and lend against it in a way that meets your
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: short-term and long-term goals. But I think this meme AI
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: agentic trade is really a temporary phenomenon because the markets
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: aren't efficient enough. And again, on a Saturday night, if
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you own the real Tesla stock, it doesn't trade. But
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: at 3 in the morning on the Saturday, you can
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: own the synthetic version of Tesla. And there are people
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: stepping in to try to take advantage of that arbitrage.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: You see this in every market in the world, FX, commodities, gold. Eventually,
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: the system will become efficient. And people should own the
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: real tokenized version of the stock that you can trade 24-7.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: But we're in a bit of chaos before the energy
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: and new financial models are being built. It always happens
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: when you have a big boom, innovation, chaos, and then order.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I would consider myself a traditional investor in the sense
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: that I would go out and buy a stock. But
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: in most cases, I'm just really wanting price exposure. I'm
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: not really interested. And in many cases, I hold serious positions.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I don't really care about the governance. I'm sure that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: that's going to do just fine. I'm looking at the
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: particular stock and is there an upside? Is there a
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: long-term vision or innovation? I think that's where meme coins
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: kind of play into this because you look at a
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: meme coin support mechanism for a traditional stock that essentially
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: creates demand. Now you've got something that is kind of
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: interesting in itself, but it also could be almost like
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: a little incubator or a laboratory of new products or
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: services that could eventually... Elon is notorious for launching products
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: out of things like this. So I imagine there's going
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: to be some other companies that kind of get in
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: there and do the same thing.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: You know, you had MetaMask doing this.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Meme coins with revenue share are happening around the mask
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: token and under Meta as a stock. So I think
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: this is going to be something that I think there
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: will be some interesting. And you have to remember, too, Joseph,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: not that I defend this demographic, but The younger demographic
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: really gets this, and they are very active in these ecosystems,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: whether they're trading on Joop or FOMO, looking at things
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: on Backpack, utilizing those stocks within other DeFi applications.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Applications.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: There's a lot more, I think, out there than what
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: TradFi has been able to give them credit for. Does
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: TradFi get to that state?
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I agree with you. In fact, I think of AI
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: as the new means of production. If you're a young
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: person and You're worried that you're not labor anymore because
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: labor is getting disrupted. You don't have the capital. If
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: you have access to Claude or other AI models, you
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: should be able to build not only a meme coin,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: you should be able to build new businesses in an instant.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: And so I think it's actually quite encouraging for young people.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Don't get pessimistic. You have an ability to build a
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: business that would have taken a year or 50 years ago.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: You can build it in an afternoon or a weekend.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: So I'm actually quite encouraged. I think the big banks
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: and financial institutions are gonna spend the next several years
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: almost denying that this revolution is happening. They're gonna try
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: to defend trillions of dollars of fees that they charge.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: But as soon as your agent has financial literacy and
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: full attention span, those are the first fees that are
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: gonna get disrupted. And I think it's gonna be a
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: very positive story. And I think young people shouldn't go
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: negative and be dissuaded. This is an opportunity for them
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: to build businesses on the weekend in an instant and
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: to be creative again because you don't need labor and
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: capital anymore. You have a new means of production and
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: that should be encouraging for young people.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the winners in this space. One of
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: them that I watch very heavily is Uniswap. This, of course,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: is Hayden talking a little bit about why should asset
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: issuers create a liquidity pool in Uniswap. And what he's
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: saying here, it's kind of like being listed on every
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: exchange on earth at once. When you have that kind
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: of opportunity, I think, especially for asset issuers, doesn't that
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: seem like it would be a natural evolution of my
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: stock that I've been building on Wall Street for the
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: last 20 years in my company to be able to
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: go out and issue this in some of these secondary markets?
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Don't you think that's a positive?
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: It's a very positive thing. So we are a public
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: company listed on NASDAQ. Our competitors are listed on New
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: York Stock Exchange. And for your listeners, They have essentially monopolies.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: As soon as they list a company, those companies almost
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: never change. And you can only trade that stock and
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: related options in that venue. When you start seeing tokenization
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: and 24-7 trading, any stock, any bond, any fund, gold
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: can be traded on any centralized exchange. But more importantly,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: you're going to have these decentralized venues like what Hayden
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: has built at Uniswap. where as long as you have
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: two sides to a trade, they will be automated market makers.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: And it shouldn't just be Bitcoin and ETH. It could
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: be Tesla versus Meta. It could be Tesla versus a
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: stable coin. And this can happen 24-7. And I think
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: it's going to give competition to the centralized venues. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: I think traditional finance needs competition because that's how they innovate.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: So there are a number of protocols. I would list
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Uniswap as one of the winners. In fact, the Robinhood experiment,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: which is happening on Ethereum, A lot of the trading
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: transactions are happening through Uniswap. So I'm quite bullish that
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: this will be not just a crypto story, but any
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: assets can be traded in a much more efficient manner.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: And so I'm bullish on Uniswap and these automated on-chain
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: market makers.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Speaking of TradFi, my last question to get your opinion on,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: you've got Securitize launching.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Basically ARK. This is ARK's, you can now buy it.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: It's ARK VX. So here you have it available as
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: a tokenized stock, getting exposure available. But the point that's
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: interesting here is it doesn't necessarily operate like a traditional,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say traditional, like this new age tokenized stocks,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: which are much more effective in terms of turnaround. You
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: look at just some of the things in terms of liquidity.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Quarterly offering to repurchase up to 5% of the outstanding
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: shares at NAV.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Requests may be prorated.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: These are things that sound like old TradFi models here,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: not the new evolution of where tokenized securities are going
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: to be going. Do you think we're going to have
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of companies like Securitize maybe at some point
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: have to eventually kind of shift the model to what
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: is really going on in the market when it comes
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: to tokenized securities?
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Well, full disclosure, I invested when I was at BlackRock
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: and Securitize. I served on the board. I don't anymore.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: But I think if you're referring to Cathie Wood's announcement
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: from ARK, that she is essentially launching a venture capital
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: fund on chain, digitally native on Ethereum, I think it's
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: an incredible story about access. Because for most of history,
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: individual investors could not get access to venture capital. You
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: had to need You needed to be an accredited investor.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: You needed to know the manager. What she's trying to
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: do is essentially do two things. Build distribution for a
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: new ARK venture capital fund on Ethereum. So you have
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: a new audience who can not only access this, but
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: trade it on a more regular basis. You're not locked
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: in for 10 years like a typical fund. But two,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: in addition to access, she gets massive distribution to new investors.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: These people may be sitting on Ethereum. They may have
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: a wallet like a MetaMask wallet. They may be investing
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: in Bitcoin and ETH, but they realize they're in their
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: 30s now. They need to own the S & P 500,
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: but in their wallet. They want to get exposure to
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: venture capital. They can now do it through a tokenized
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: version of a fund. So it gives access that didn't
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: exist and to the issuer distribution, but with more liquidity
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: than you would see in a paper or analog version
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: of of an alternatives fund. So I think this is
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: the future, and I think she's going to be very
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: successful given her experience, her marketing, and the fact that
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: it's being built in a digitally native way. This is
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: the future of finance, and it's happening in real time.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: You saw the ARK announcement this morning.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a little bit skeptical just in the sense that
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: they've made this step. When you look at how to
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: buy the fund, you can kind of see this is
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: traditional to me, It's like what I would do on
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Fidelity or Schwab or anywhere else.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: You know, it's full KYC.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: You know, even though it does a link wallet, it
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily give you the ability to leverage against it
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: or trade it in any way in terms of DeFi.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: So to me, this is just a digital way to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: buy it, you know, in a wrapper that maybe didn't
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: exist before. So I'm skeptical as this. I think eventually
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: they're going to move more advanced markets. And make this
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: very similar to what's out there in the market today
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: that I can get exposure to in a much better
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: way and have a lot more flexibility because I think
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: that's what consumers want is they want flexibility.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Don't you think so or no?
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Consumers do, but you do need KYC when you're selling
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: securities in the U.S. I think what's interesting is that
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: the biggest institutions in the world, and I worked for
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: one for 20 years, when they own a stock in
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: a fund, Paul, they borrow and lend against it.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: If you are an individual and you own a stock
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: in a Charles Schwab account, it sits idle. I think
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: when you have it in tokenized form in a wallet
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: with a smart contract, you'll be able to own the
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: S & P 500 in digital format and lend.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: It out and earn a little yield.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: I think eventually this ARK fund will be able to
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: be used as collateral. Now, it might have a bigger
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: haircut than a treasury bond, but eventually there'll be DeFi
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: markets who will accept this as collateral or allow you
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: to borrow against it or lend it. So I think
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: first step is getting it in digital format. That is
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: the prerequisite for it to be portable, transferable, and what
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: we call composable. The same way as the biggest institutions
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: in the world borrow and lend against assets, you'll be
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: able to do that in a smarter way. So I
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: think it'll take time for this to get traction. But
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: once it does, it's going to change everything. It's going
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: to make a digital version of a stock, bond, or
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: fund actually more liquid and valuable than the analog version.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: So as we end this, Sharplink, of course, up on
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: the market today. So Joseph, we do thank you for
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: coming in. I know you're very busy.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: We appreciate it.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Paul, thank you for having me. I think this was
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: a great discussion. And I'm optimistic that consumers will be
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: the biggest winner when we look ahead two or three years.
• 38:25
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• 38:28
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• 38:31
  Speaker 1: member group.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: The link is in the description.