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The Horrors Of Room 308: The Case Of Grace Millane · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Imagine for a second that you're just, you know, standing
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a really crowded modern city.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Right. Like totally surrounded by people.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Exactly. There are literally thousands of people swarming around you.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: And there are these high definition cameras mounted on, well,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: pretty much every street.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Every ATM and every storefront.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Right. And you've got this smartphone in your pocket that
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: is just silently bouncing signals off cell towers like every
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: few seconds.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: You're completely tracked.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, you as a modern citizen, you're arguably the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: most surveilled, the most connected human being in the entire
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: history of our species.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: It's wild to think about.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: It is. So my question is, how do you just vanish?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that is the ultimate digital paradox, isn't it?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: We all just assume that this connectivity equals safety. Right.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: We think visibility equals protection.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Because someone is always watching.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. But the terrifying reality is that for a moment,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: the whole system could just go completely quiet.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: And that sudden, like, deafening silence is exactly what we're
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: unpacking today.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a heavy one.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It really is. We are taking a deep dive into
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: this harrowing case from 2018. It's a case that gripped
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: not just one nation, but two entire countries.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We've got a really massive stack of source materials for
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We do. We're talking interview transcripts. We have all the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: trial details, complex timelines. And a ton of digital forensics.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: But our mission today isn't just to tell you another
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: true crime story.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: No, not at all. We really want to examine how
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a modern, you know, seemingly innocuous act like going on
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a Tinder date while you're backpacking in a popular tourist spot,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: how that just spiraled into this absolute labyrinth of deception.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: We're going to look at how a pathological predator was
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: eventually unmasked by all of this.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Right. And we also want to dissect the actual anatomy
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of a modern investigation.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Like what does it actually mean to process a digital
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: footprint in the real world?
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And we're going to explore the deep psychology of
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: compulsive lying and look at the critical role that surveillance
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: plays in our modern justice system.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: We really want to ask you, the listener, to consider
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: this question. How does our technology both expose us to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: immense danger and then ultimately serve as this inescapable witness
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: to the truth?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: It's a lot to untack. So look, let's just get
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: into it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: That was good.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Before we look at the mechanics of the police work
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: or even the psychology of the perpetrator, I feel like
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: we have to talk about the human center of this story.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: We absolutely do.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: We really need to establish who this young woman was
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: before she just became, you know, a headline on international news.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Right. We are talking about 21-year-old Grace Mullane.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Grace was from Essex in England.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: She was born in 1996 and she was the youngest
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: of three siblings. She had two older brothers, Michael and Declan.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And when you read through the source materials, like when
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: you look at the interviews with her family and the
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: statements from her friends, the picture they paint of Grace
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: is just incredibly consistent.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone said she was deeply sociable, very lively, and
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: highly creative.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: The sources actually describe her as a homebird.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: A homebird, yeah.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Which I think is a really telling detail, especially when
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you consider the sheer scope of what she was undertaking
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: with this trip.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. She was incredibly family-oriented.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: And she had just graduated from the University of Lincoln, right? Yeah.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: with a degree in advertising and marketing.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: That's right. She had her whole professional life ahead of her.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: And yet she was choosing to step out into the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: world to do this massive independent thing.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And you can really see her character in her actions
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: leading up to the trip.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Because before she even left for this year-long backpacking tour, which,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: by the way, was a trip she had meticulously saved
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: up for over a really long period. Right.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: She worked hard for this.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: She did. She did. And she did something quite remarkable
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: before leaving. She actually cut off her long hair and
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: donated it to the Little Princess Trust.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And for those who might not know, that's the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: charity that makes real hair wigs for children suffering from cancer, right?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly. Cancer and other conditions where they lose their hair.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: And, I mean, from a psychological standpoint, that is a
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: very deliberate act of compassion.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It's not just a spur-of-the-moment thing.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. Growing your hair out to donate it,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: requires months, sometimes years, of forethought.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You really have to plan it out.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Right. It requires a sustained level of empathy and delayed gratification.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: It tells you a lot about her baseline empathy as
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: a person.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she wasn't just passing through the world. She was
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: deeply considerate of the people around her.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: She really was.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: So in October 2018, Grace leaves her family home in Essex.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: She heads to South America first, right?
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Yep. She spends six weeks traveling through Peru and Meeting
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: other travelers, doing the classic adventurous backpacking experience.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Which is such an amazing thing to do at that age.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: It really is. And then on November 19th, she arrives
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: in New Zealand alone. And then 11 days later on
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: November 30th, she reaches Auckland. That's New Zealand's largest city. Right.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: She checks into a place called the Base Backpackers on
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Queen Street. And she's sharing a room there with other
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: young travelers.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: You know, what's fascinating here is the underlying sociology involved.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Of the modern gap year.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Or the long-term backpacking trip, yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly. I mean, it's a huge rite of passage for
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: young adults, particularly in the UK.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. Everyone seems to do it.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: But it relies on a very specific psychological duality.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by duality?
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Well, on one hand, it's characterized by this fierce, admirable
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: sense of independence.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Sure. You're out there on your own.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Right. You're navigating foreign transit systems, you're managing your own budget,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and you're making your own itinerary every single day.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of responsibility.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: It is. But paradoxically, to do that successfully, it requires
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: an enormous amount of vulnerability and trust.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Wait, trust in who? Strangers?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Think about the environment of a typical youth hostel.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: You are sleeping in a dormitory room with people you
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: met like three hours ago. Right.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been there. It's weird when you actually think
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: It is. You are relying on the goodwill of fellow
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: travelers to tell you which neighborhoods are safe. You're relying
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: on locals to help you find your way.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, backpacking culture operates on this unspoken social contract, doesn't it?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Like mutual aid and radical openness.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: That's a perfect way to put it. You literally have
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: to be open to new experiences and new people.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, the entire concept of the trip just fails. You
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: just stay in your room all day.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But that openness intrinsically creates a vulnerability that predators
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: can exploit.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: God, that makes perfect sense. I look at the modern
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: backpacker almost like a deep sea explorer.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, how so?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: You're out there in the dark exploring the unknown, but
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: you are tethered to the surface by this digital umbilical cord.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you mean. Smartphone.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Right. Even though Grace was thousands of miles away from
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Essex and physically alone in Auckland, digitally, she was constantly
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: connected to her family.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, her brother Declan noted that she was essentially bombarding
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: the family group chat with, Details.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Just constant updates and pictures of her trip.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She was a constant, vibrant, digital presence in their
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: daily lives.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Right. And if you are that kind of traveler, you know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the one who updates the WhatsApp group every time you
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: see a cool landmark or try a new coffee shop.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Which is how most of us travel now, honestly. Yeah.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: So any break in that digital tether isn't just some
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: minor oversight.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 1: It's not like someone who never texts suddenly going quiet
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: for a day. For Grace, going silent was an immediate
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: glaring disruption in her baseline pattern of life.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And if we connect this to the mechanics of an investigation,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that constant communication is a massive asset for detectives.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Because it creates a timeline.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The moment the communication stops, you have a rigid,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: undeniable timestamp for when the timeline of a potential crime begins. Wow.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Furthermore, the sheer volume of data generated prior to that
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: silence indicates gives you a high-definition map of her final days.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Her state of mind, her intentions, everything.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And that digital trail is exactly how we have such
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: a crystal clear picture of what Grace planned to do
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: on her first full day in Auckland.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: So let's look at that day.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's look at Saturday, December 1st, 2018. It's the evening,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: just before 6.00 p.m. Okay. Grace leaves her hostel on
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Queen Street. She's dressed for a nice night out. She's
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: wearing a black knee-length dress, white shoes, and she is
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: carrying a small handbag.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: And she's heading into the heart of the city center.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: She had made plans to meet a man she had
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: matched with on the dating app, Tinder.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: And according to the source material, she initially didn't seem
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: entirely certain about meeting up with him. Really?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: There was some back and forth messaging, a bit of
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: hesitation on her part.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: But eventually they made a concrete plan to get drinks.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Right. Which is such a universally understood experience now, isn't it?
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. The slight hesitation... The vetting via text message.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Trying to gauge their vibe.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then taking that leap of faith to actually
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: meet in person in a public place.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: So she meets this guy at Sky City.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Sky City is this major entertainment complex in Auckland.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It's massive. It houses bars, restaurants, a huge casino, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: this landmark tower.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: So it's exactly the kind of place you'd choose for
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: a first date with someone from the internet.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Because it projects safety.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Exactly. It is highly public. There are massive crowds. There's
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: private security everywhere. And there are cameras covering almost every
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: square inch.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Right. And while she's there, Grace is messaging her friend
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Amina back home.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: She texts her. And this is a direct quote. I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: click with him so well. He's an oil manager. He
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: lives in a hotel.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Wow. So from Grace's perspective, this is a massive success.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: She thinks she's having a great time. She's 21. She's
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: in a vibrant international city. And she's out with a
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: successful older professional who is apparently wealthy enough to live
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: in a hotel. Right.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: So the date progresses. About an hour later, they move
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to a venue called the Blue Stone Room.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: And this is where the timeline introduces a detail that
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: requires very close attention.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: What happens?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Well, at one point, Grace gets up from the table,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: presumably to go to the restroom or maybe to the
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: bar to order a drink.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: While she's away, the man sitting across from her picks
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: up her small handbag, And begin systematically searching through it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, I really want to stop here for a second.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's intense.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Because if you are on a first date, the other
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: person's bag is an absolute boundary you simply do not cross.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, completely.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Why would someone do that on a first date while
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: the other person is in the bathroom? I mean, is
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: he just incredibly nosy? Is he looking to see if
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: she has cash to pay the bill? Like, what is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: actually happening here?
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: This is a critical moment of behavioral analysis. Hmm. In
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: a normal social context, going through someone's bag is just
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a massive violation of privacy.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: That's just rude.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But in the context of predatory behavior, it is a
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: calculated intelligence-gathering mission.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Wait, so he's looking for vulnerabilities.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Exactly. He is looking for resources and logistical data. He
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: might be checking her wallet to see how much money
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: she has.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Jesus.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: He could be looking at her identification to confirm her
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: age and nationality. But crucially, he's likely looking to see
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: if she has a hotel key card or a hostile lanyard.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Because that tells him her living situation.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Yes. Is she staying somewhere with high security? Is she
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: sharing a room with people who will notice if she
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't come home? Wow. It's a subtle but profoundly invasive
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: act of assessment. He is gathering the data he needs
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: to inform his next move.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: That is deeply chilling. He is essentially sizing up the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: prey while she thinks she is having a lovely conversation
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: about his career.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And Grace, of course, has absolutely no idea this has happened.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: No. She returns to the table and the date continues. Right.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Just after 9.30 p.m., they leave the Bluestone room arm
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: in arm. They are walking down the street together and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: they head back to where he is staying, which is
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the City Life Hotel.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: And it is at this exact point, as they walk
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: through the doors of that hotel and step into the elevator,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: that the digital umbilical cord you mentioned earlier is completely severed.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: It's just gone.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: The constant stream of WhatsApp messages, the photos, the updates
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: to friends and family in Essex, it all abruptly stops.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Which makes the silence that follows even more devastating, you know.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Because the very next day, Sunday, December 2nd, was actually
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Grace's 22nd birthday.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. And her family and friends in the UK
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: doing what anyone would do on a loved one's birthday.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: They're sending messages. They're posting on her social media walls
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and trying to call her.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: But Grace isn't responding to a single one. Both of
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: her mobile phones are going straight to voicemail.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Her brother, Declan, realizes almost instantly that this is not
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: just a traveler who forgot to charge her phone or
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: someone who got distracted on a hike.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: This is a girl who would never, under any circumstances,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: ignore her family on her birthday. Right.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So by Wednesday, December 5th, her parents contact the Auckland
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: police all the way from the UK and formally report
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: her as a missing person.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So what do the police do first?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Well, the police follow standard protocol for a missing tourist.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: They contact the base backpackers' hostel on Queen Street.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: The staff checks her room and confirms that Grace never
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: checked back in on the night of December 1st. But
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: it's worth noting that initially, the police didn't immediately jump
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: to the conclusion of foul play.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Right, because all of her belongings, like her clothes, her passport,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: her main luggage, all of that was still at the hostel, right?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: They probably thought, you know, she met some people, maybe
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: went on an impromptu side trip out of the city
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and just dropped off the radar for a few days.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Precisely. It's a relatively common occurrence in backpacking hubs. Young
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: people change their plans on a whim all the time. Sure.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: But the detectives still need to establish a timeline... and
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: trace her last known movements to ensure she actually is safe.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: And this is where the modern urban landscape changes the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: game entirely.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Right, they don't just put up posters anymore.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: No, they pull the CCTV from the city center.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And we aren't talking about, like, one grainy black and
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: white camera outside a corner store where you can barely
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: make out a face.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Not at all.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: We are talking about a highly networked, dense web of
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: municipal and private surveillance.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, and through that vast amount of CCTV footage... They
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: quickly trace her path backwards from the hostel.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. So they find her on the cameras.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: They do. They identify the man she was seen walking
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: with on Saturday night. Furthermore, investigators dive into her digital footprint.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: What did they find there?
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Well, on the very night Grace was last seen, she
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: had updated her profile picture on Facebook. Okay. Underneath that picture,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: a comment was posted saying, beautiful, very radiant. The police
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: traced the account that posted that comment, and the face
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: matched Grace's the man seen drinking with Grace in the
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: CCTV footage.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: It was the Tinder date.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. His name was Jesse Kempson. Okay. He was 26
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: years old, and he was, in fact, residing at the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: City Life Hotel in Auckland.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Which is what he told Grace.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Right. But that geographical fact... is about the only true
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: thing Grace believed about him.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Because he was absolutely not an oil manager.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Not even close.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Let's look at who Jesse Kempson actually was, because the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: background the sources provide on his life before he met
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Grace is just staggering.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: He was born in Wellington. His parents split up when
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: he was young. He moved around a lot, was partially
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: raised by his grandparents. And by this point in 2018,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: he was virtually estranged from his entire family. And everyone
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: who knew him, former friends, landlords, employers, they all described
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: him using exactly the same phrase.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: A pathological liar.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, a pathological liar.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: What is fascinating here is the sheer scale and audacity
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: of his deception. It's important to distinguish between everyday lying
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: and pathological lying.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, what's the difference?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Well, psychiatrists sometimes refer to pathological lying as pseudologia fantastica.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: That sounds intense.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: It is. We all know people who might exaggerate a
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: story to make themselves look a bit more successful or
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: tell a white lie to avoid an awkward social situation.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Sure, like saying you're stuck in traffic when you're just
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: running late.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Those lies are for external practical gain. But Kempson
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: lived in a completely fabricated alternative reality. He lied for
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: internal control and to rewrite his own existence.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And the list of lies he told is just bizarre.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: He told people he was the cousin of a famous
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: All Blacks rugby player. He told multiple people he was
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: dying of cancer.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Just massive, unnecessary lies. Right.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: He claimed to be a high-level corporate manager for Woolworths,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: when in reality, his rent at the City Life Hotel
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: was being paid by state welfare benefits.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: And he didn't just lie in passing conversations. he built
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: entire elaborate personas that required massive cognitive load to maintain.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: For instance, a former landlord reported that Kempson claimed to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: be a professional softball player who had been signed by
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: New Zealand's national team, the Black Sox.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Wait, and he used that specific lie to avoid paying rent, right?
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: He told the landlord he was waiting on a massive
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: contract payout from the team.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And for eight weeks, he spun these complex excuses
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: about bank transfers, and team management.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Eight weeks?
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But eventually, reality pushes back against a pathological liar.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: The landlord actually picked up the phone, contacted the Black
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Sox management, and the whole facade instantly collapsed.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Kempson was exposed and immediately evicted.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I try to picture what it takes to live like that.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Every single day, you're waking up and having to remember
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: which lies you told to which person.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: It must be exhausting.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: It requires constant, exhausting energy to keep it all standing.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Because of this, he was continually being evicted from apartments.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: He was continually being fired from jobs. In fact, his
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: most recent job was in telephone sales. And he was
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: fired from that job for lying on the exact same
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: day that he met Grace Mullane.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: That timeline intersection is absolutely critical to understanding his mindset.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: On the afternoon of December 1st, his professional life has
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: just imploded yet again due to his own compulsions. He
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: is exposed, he is broke, and he is a failure.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Hours later, he is sitting across from a 21-year-old tourist,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: spitting a brand new web, claiming to be a wealthy
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: oil manager.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So how does that psychology work?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Like, if you are a pathological liar and you spend
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: your entire life spinning these massive tails, and every time
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you get caught, the only consequence is that you just
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: move to a new apartment or get a new entry-level job.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Does that embolden you?
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Do you start to think you are invincible?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You do. When a person lives a life of constant
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: extreme deception without facing severe pernick consequences, like without going
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: to prison, without facing total public ruin, they begin to
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: develop a profound sense of omnipotence regarding their own narrative.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: They think they control reality.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: They believe that they can talk their way out of
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: any situation. They view their own linguistic agility as an
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: invincible shield.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: They think they are the smartest person in every room
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: they walk into.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Yes. They assume everyone else is gullible. And on December 5th,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: that belief was put to the ultimate test.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Because the police, having identified him from the CCTV and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: the Facebook comment, brought him into the station to answer
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: some questions.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: And at this point, remember, it is still just a
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: missing persons case. They are just trying to fill in
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the timeline.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Okay.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Let's go deep into this interrogation on December 5th. Because
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: watching someone who believes they can lie their way out
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of anything go up against professional homicide detectives is like
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a master class in psychological tension.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: It really is. The police bring him in and they
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: ask him to tell them about his date with Grace.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And what does he do?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Kempson is immediately cooperative. He is conversational. polite, and seemingly relaxed.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: He confirms they matched on Tinder, they met at Sky City,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: and then he says it was his idea to go
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: up to Andy's Burger Bar to get a drink.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: But the reason he gives to the detective for choosing
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: that specific, highly public place is wild.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: He tells the detective, and I'm quoting here, I didn't
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: initially know that she was real. He actually starts explaining
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the concept of catfishing to the police.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Right, like they don't know what it is. Yeah.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: He says, catfishing is where someone uses your photos and
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: pretends to be you if she wasn't who she said
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: she was. At least in my mind, I'd feel safe.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: If we look closely at that statement, it is a
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: brilliant example of a manipulator acting attempting to seize control
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: of the narrative from the very beginning. Wow. Okay. This
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: is a classic Darvo tactic. Darvo. Deny, attack, reverse victim
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: and offender.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, right.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: He is projecting an image of a cautious, safety-conscious, vulnerable
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: young man who has been victimized by internet dating in
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: the past.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: It is incredibly audacious. I mean, he is sitting across
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: from detectives who are investigating the disappearance of a young woman,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and he is actively trying to center his own physical safety.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: He's projecting his fear of being deceived by a woman
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: while simultaneously lying to the police about his identity, his job,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and what happened that night.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: He is trying to establish a baseline of innocence by
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: pretending to share the police's concerns about safety. But the
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: detectives don't interrupt him.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: They let him keep going.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: They're testing his baseline. They're letting him talk, letting him
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: build his version of events, and letting him lock himself
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: into a highly specific timeline.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And the timeline he gives them is that the date
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: ended nicely. A hug, a kiss on the cheek, and
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: they parted ways on the street around 10.00 p.m.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: The detectives even test him. They show him a single
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: CCTV still image from the street and say, OK, she's
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: going that way and you're going across the street. And
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Kempson elaborates.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: He just can't help himself.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: He doesn't just agree with the prompt. He adds completely
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: unnecessary detail.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: He describes his exact walking route to the detectives. He
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: says he went down Victoria Street. headed towards the viaduct.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: And when the detective casually points out that it's a
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: bit of a funny roundabout direction to walk to get
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: back to his hotel, Kempson leans right back into his
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: safety narrative. He says, I feel safer down that way.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: It's the pathological liar's reflex. Any challenge to the story,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: no matter how minor, is met with an immediate, confident justification.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: He then claims he tried to message her the next
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: day on Tinder, but noticed she had unmatched him. heavily
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: implying to the police that he was simply a victim
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of a bad date who got ghosted.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Having locked him into this narrative, the detectives begin to
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: escalate the pressure.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: They stop playing nice.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: They stop playing the friendly, curious role. They tell him
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: directly that they're very concerned for her safety. They introduce
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the phrase, foul play.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: They explicitly tell him that they have to consider the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: possibility that she has been murdered.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: And here is where it gets really fascinating. Because when
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the detective asks him how he would feel about providing
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: a voluntary DNA sample to compare against potential evidence, Kempson
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't hesitate or ask for a lawyer.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Not at all.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: He says, 100%. I mean, I know I haven't done
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: anything wrong, so I'm happy to do it.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: That enthusiastic faux cooperation is a hallmark of a suspect
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: who believes they've completely outsmarted the investigation.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: He thinks he's won.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: He thinks that by appearing entirely open, transparent, and helpful,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: he will instantly dispel any suspicions. He thinks the police
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: are operating on gut feeling.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: He even asks, sounding almost genuinely naive, am I being
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: arrested for something I didn't do and seems relieved when
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: they say no. Right. But here's the thing about building
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: a house of lies in the year 2018 in a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: major international city. While he's sitting in that interview room,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: spinning this elaborate tale of parting ways on the street
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and worrying about Internet catfishing, a team of analysts in
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: another room is pouring over the CCTV data.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: All six terabytes of it. Terrible. That volume of data
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: cannot be overstated, and the mechanics of how police process
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: it are crucial to this case.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: How do they even go through that much?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Well, six terabytes is thousands of hours of high-definition video
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: from hundreds of different angles, spanning multiple days. They aren't
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: just watching it like a movie.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Right, that would take years.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: They are using facial recognition mapping, they are time-stamping pivot
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: points like hotel entrances and major intersections, and they are
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: building a digital spider web of his movements. It is
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: an unblinking objective record of reality.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: So I have to ask you, is it just pure
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: arrogance that makes a criminal lie about their physical movements
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: in a modern city center? Or is it a genuine
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: inability to comprehend the omnipresence of the technology surrounding them?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Because the footage the police had completely destroyed his timeline.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It is a combination of both, but primarily arrogance driven
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: by his specific pathology. A pathological liar... is accustomed to
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: dealing with human memory, human emotion, and human gullibility.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Right. He's used to tricking people.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: When they lie to a landlord or an employer, it's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: a battle of words. They're used to winning those battles.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: They are not accustomed to battling an objective, immutable technological record.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: He simply didn't factor the cameras into his risk assessment.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Because you can't gaslight a camera.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. You can't.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: And the cameras show that they never parted ways on
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the street. They didn't walk in opposite directions down Victoria Street.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: The cameras tracked them arriving at the City Life Hotel
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: arm in arm.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: They entered the elevator together.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: They exited on Kempson's floor together. And the digital spiderweb
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: confirmed one horrifying, undeniable fact. Grace never left that building.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Which means everything he just confidently told the police was
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: a calculated fabrication designed to hide a murder.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And while his interrogation strategy highlights his profound arrogance, it
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: is what... The digital forensics caught him doing in the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: 24 hours immediately following the murder that truly exposes the
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: depths of his psychology.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: The timeline of what happened after Grace died is incredibly disturbing.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: The source materials detail exactly what Kempson was doing, minute
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: by minute, hour by hour. Let's start at 1.30 in
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the morning on Sunday, December 2nd. Grace is lying dead
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: in his hotel room. What is Kempson doing?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: He is on his smartphone conducting internet searches. And the
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: search terms are not the frantic queries of someone who
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: has just had a terrible accident. They are chillingly pragmatic.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: He searches for hottest fire. He searches for flesh-eating birds. Oh,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: my God. He searches for the Waitaker Ranges, which is
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a vast, dense, forested regional park west of Auckland.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: So he is actively researching cremation, natural decomposition, and disposal locations. Yes.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And following those logistical forensic searches... The data extraction from
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: his phone shows that he trolled through a pornography site
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: and then used his camera to take several intimate degrading
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: photographs of Grace's body.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: It is a level of depravity that is incredibly hard
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: to even process.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: It's horrific.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: And it continues. As the sun comes up on Sunday morning,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: he leaves the hotel. The CCTV cameras track his every
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: move through the city. He goes shopping. He buys a
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: large suitcase. He buys specific cleaning supplies. Just before noon,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: he takes a taxi to a car rental company and
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: rents a red Toyota Corolla.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: If we contrast this behavior with a genuine panic response,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: which is exactly what his defense team will later claim
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: this was, the difference is stark.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Panic is chaotic. Panic is erratic, emotionally overwhelming, and often
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: leads to irrational immediate flight.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: You run away.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly. What Kempson is doing is not panic. It is calculated, methodical,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: project management.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Project management. Wow.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: He is sourcing materials, securing transport, and executing a step-by-step
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: logistical plan to cover up a homicide.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Wait, stop, because we are about to hit what might
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: be the most psychologically incomprehensible part of this entire timeline.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: This part is wild.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: It is Sunday afternoon. Grace's body is still in his
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: hotel room. He has the cleaning supplies. He has the
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: rental car. And what does he do? He goes on
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: another Tinder date.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: He goes to a bar and meets up with another
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: woman he had been messaging on the app.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: How is that not just pure sociopathy? I need to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: pause on this. Because it defies all logic.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: If you are in the middle of trying to dispose
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: of a body and chemically clean a crime scene, going
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: on a date in a public place is the absolute
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: last thing on earth you would do. It introduces a massive,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: unpredictable variable into your cover-up. What kind of mind does that?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: It requires a profound, terrifying detachment From human empathy and reality.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: But from a behavioral perspective, it also speaks to a
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: deep desire for power and control.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, explain that.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: We talked earlier about how his lies emboldened him. Sitting
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: across from a new woman, having drinks just hours after
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: murdering another woman, is an extreme exercise in dominance.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: He knows a horrific, lethal secret that she doesn't. He
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: is playing God in his own mind.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It's like an adrenaline junkie pushing their luck to the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: absolute limit. He is flaunting his crime right under the
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: nose of a new victim. And he actually lets the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: mask slip during the second date, doesn't he?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: He does. The woman he met that afternoon later came
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: forward and reported that he had incredibly disturbing, intense conversations
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: with her.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: What did he say?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Out of nowhere, he started speaking about burying bodies. No way. Yes.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: He bragged about having friends who were police officers and
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: knowing how investigations worked.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: He is literally weaving the reality of what he's doing.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: The body in his room, the police investigation he knows
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: is coming into his pathological life. in real time.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Exactly. He couldn't help himself. And his behavior was so unsettling,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: so intense, that his date was terrified. Her intuition flared up.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Thank God.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: She made him feel so uneasy that when he later
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: offered her a ride in his car... the very same
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: rented red Toyota he procured to transport Grace's body. She
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: completely declined, made her own way home, and never spoke
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: to him again.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Her intuition absolutely saved her life.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: It really did.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: So after this bizarre, terrifying second date, Kempson goes back
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to his project management. It's Sunday evening now. He goes
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: out into the city center and hires a rug doctor,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: which is an industrial carpet cleaning machine.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: And true to his pathological form, he provides a ready-made,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: smooth lie to the store staff. explaining that he needs
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: it urgently to clean up some red wine stains in
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: his apartment.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Later that night, around 9.30 p.m., the CCTV catches him
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: loading two suitcases onto a hotel luggage trolley, taking them
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: down the elevator and offloading them into the trunk of
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the rented Toyota. The next morning, Monday, December 3rd, at
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: 7 a.m., he's on camera again, buying a shovel at
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: a hardware store. Two hours later, he's spotted at a
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: car wash, power washing the rental car, which he then
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: returns to the company.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: He went through a meticulous, cold-blooded cleanup process. He dumped
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: the cleaning supplies, Grace's belongings, and the rug doctor in
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: various municipal bins around the city over the next two days.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: He really thought he had thought of everything.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: He did. By December 5th, the day Grace was officially
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: reported missing by her parents, he believed he had perfectly
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: handled the situation. The room was clean, the body was
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: hidden in the Whitaker Ranges, and the car was returned.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: He thought he was untouchable.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: But the walls were rapidly closing in because the physical
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: world was catching up to the digital one. By Friday,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: December 7th, Grace's father, David Mullane, had flown from the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: UK and arrived in Auckland. And the public pressure on
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the police was mounting exponentially.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: David Mullane held an incredibly emotional, heartbreaking press conference.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing that.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: He described Grace as a lovely, outgoing person. fun-loving daughter.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: He emphasized to the media how radically out of character
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: this silence was, noting that she usually contacted them daily.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: You could see the sheer agony of a parent who
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: knows in their gut that something is terribly wrong, but
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: is trapped in a foreign country desperately waiting for answers.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: And the police, while keeping their forensic cards very close
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to their chest, revealed to the press that they had
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: spoken to a person of interest. They stated publicly that
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: they had grave concerns for Grace's safety. And then, on Saturday,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: December 8th, as the CCTV and cell tower evidence became insurmountable,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Jesse Kempson was formally arrested for murder.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And this is the moment where the pathological liar's web
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: finally breaks, and he is forced to pivot to a
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: completely new narrative.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, because he can't deny he was with her anymore.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The polite, safety-conscious victim of catfishing vanishes instantly. When
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: confronted with the irrefutable visual evidence that the police know
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Grace never left his room, his story changes drastically.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: He tells them a completely new story. He claims that
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: during the date, she started talking to him about the
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: book and movie Fifty Shades of Grey. He claims they
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: went back to his room, started having normal consensual sex,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and then she asked him to introduce bondage to have
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: what he termed more violent sex.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: He says they ended up on the floor and she
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: explicitly instructed him to hold her throat.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: He is attempting to build a legal defense based on
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: consensual erotic asphyxiation. He claims that after this occurred, he
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: left her on the floor, went into the bathroom, took
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: a shower, fell asleep in the shower. And when he
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: woke up the next morning and returned to the bedroom,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: he realized Grace was dead.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: And his explanation for everything that followed, the suitcase, the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: rental car, the shovel, the Google searches, was that he
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: woke up, saw her, and went into extreme shock. He panicked.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: He essentially argued to the detectives that he was too
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: afraid to call the police because of how bad it
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: would look for him. So his only perceived option was
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: to hide her body.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: However... Despite admitting to burying her, he fiercely denied any
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: intent to kill, maintaining that it was a tragic, unforeseen
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: accident during a consensual act.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: But as he is sitting in the station spinning this
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: new web, the police are finalizing their search grid based
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: on his digital footprint, specifically the cell tower pings from
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: his phone when he drove the rental car.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that data is so precise now.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: On the same day he is arrested, shortly after 4.0 p.m.,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Officers searching a dense area near Scenic Drive by the
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Waitaker Reservoir locate a body buried in a suitcase about
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: 10 yards from the road.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: It was Grace.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: The formal identification followed shortly after, confirming the absolute worst
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: fears of her family and sending a wave of shock
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: across the entire nation of New Zealand. The act of
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: search was over. Now was a matter of forensic analysis
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: and legal prosecution.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: And the autopsy results completely scientifically dismantle Kempson's new narrative
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of a sudden tragic accident.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: They absolutely do.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: The forensic pathologist confirmed that Grace had indeed been strangled
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: to death, but there were also deep bruises on her
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: arms and chest that were entirely consistent with being forcefully
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: pinned down against her will.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: The most critical piece of forensic evidence, however, pertained to
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: the actual physiological mechanics of strangulation.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, break that down for us.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: The pathologist testified that to cause death in this specific manner,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: considerable unyielding force would have been required. And more importantly...
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: that immense pressure on her neck must have been sustained
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: continuously for between four and five minutes.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I really want you, the listener, to stop and think
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: about that specific time frame. Just count to five in
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: your head right now. One, two, three, four, five. Now
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: imagine doing that 60 times.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: It's a long time.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Four to five minutes is an absolute eternity in the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: context of a physical, violent struggle.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Physiologically, it means the victim goes through distinct, observable stages.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: They struggle. They fight back. They panic. And eventually, due
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: to the severe lack of oxygen to the brain, they
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: suffer hypoxia. They lose consciousness. They go completely limp.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Meaning that for several minutes, he was actively, forcefully choking
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: an unconscious, lifeless person. You cannot accidentally do that while
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: you are engaged in a consensual act. It requires a deliberate, sustained,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: unyielding decision to end a human life. Which brings up
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: a massive question for me. How do defense teams get
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: away with weaponizing a victim's private life to excuse that
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: kind of lethal sustained violence?
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: It's a highly controversial and deeply troubling legal strategy, often
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: referred to colloquially in the media as the rough sex
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: defense or the Fifty Shades defense.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: It sounds so gross.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: To understand why it works, you have to understand the
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: legal concept of mens rea, which is Latin for guilty mind.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: To convict someone of murder, the prosecution must prove intent.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: The defense relies on exploiting societal taboos around sex to
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: muddy the waters of that intent.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: By making it about the victim's choices.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Right. By introducing elements of BDSM or unconventional sexual practices
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: into the courtroom, the defense attempts to shift the focus
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: away from the lethal actions of the perpetrator and onto
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: the alleged sexual preferences of the victim.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: It is pure victim-blaming dressed up as a sophisticated legal strategy.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: It asks a jury to believe that because a young
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: woman might have an interest in a certain kind of
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: consensual intimacy, she is somehow responsible for her own murder.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The defense hopes that by making the context of
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: the death feel chaotic, consensual, and socially taboo, the jury
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: will hesitate to find the deliberate intent required for a
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: murder conviction.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Because they're confused by the context.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: The goal is to introduce enough doubt that the jury
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: opts for a lesser charge, like manslaughter. which carries a
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: significantly lighter sentence.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: But the prosecution in this case and the public watching
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: it unfold were having absolutely none of it. This exact
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: frustration was echoed during the trial, which began in November
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: of 2019.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: The trial lasted just three weeks. For most of it,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Kempson remained stony-faced in the dock, occasionally glancing down at
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: papers or holding his head in his hands, showing virtually
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: no emotion. Wow. His defense team stuck rigidly to their narrative.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: They argued that it was an accidental death, a tragic
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: case of sexual misadventure caused by inexperienced or intoxicated people
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: trying something that went horribly wrong.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: But the prosecution came armed with an absolute mountain of evidence.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: They didn't just rely on the forensic autopsy. They relied
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: heavily on that digital footprint we talked about earlier.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Which was so crucial.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: They painted a picture of a man who did not panic,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: but who calmly and callously set about covering his tracks.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: They called his narrative a labyrinth of storytelling and lies.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: The prosecutor's closing statement was incredibly powerful. He reminded the
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: jury of the physiological timeline of death.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: The four to five minutes.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. He explicitly stated that at some point during that
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: five to ten minute window of strangulation, Grace lost consciousness.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: She became limp and lifeless under his hand. And he
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: made the conscious, deliberate decision to carry on applying pressure.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: The prosecutor essentially looked at the jury and said, if
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: that is not reckless, intentional murder, then somebody needs to
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: explain what is.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And the jury agreed entirely. On December 22, 2019, after
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: just five hours of deliberation, which is remarkably fast for
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: a complex murder trial with this much technical and forensic evidence,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: they found Jesse Kempson guilty of murder.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: The sentencing was severe. He was sentenced to life in
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: prison with a minimum non-parole period of 17 years. The judge,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: in delivering the sentence, specifically highlighted his total physical dominance
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: over a vulnerable, diminutive young woman in his room. And
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the impact on the family who had to sit through
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: all of this was just devastating.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Grace's mother spoke to the court about the daily unending
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: torment of imagining the terror and pain Grace experienced knowing
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: she died terrified and alone in a stranger's room.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: It's just heartbreaking.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: The family acknowledged that while the guilty verdict was welcome,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: It would never reduce the suffering of having their lives
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: ripped apart.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: The case resonated so deeply in New Zealand that Prime
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Minister Jacinda Ardern held a press conference and gave a public,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: highly emotional apology to the Mullane family on behalf of
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the entire country.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: She did.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: She said, your daughter should have been safe here and
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: she wasn't and I'm sorry for that.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: To understand why a head of state would do that,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: you have to understand the national psyche of New Zealand.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Right. They cried themselves on safety.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Their identity is heavily tied to being a safe, hospitable,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: welcoming destination for travelers. It was an unprecedented national outpouring
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: of grief and shame that this could happen to a
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: guest in their country. But following the guilty verdict, the
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: legal proceedings regarding Jesse Kempson were not over. In fact,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: a much darker, wider picture of his predatory behavior was
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: about to be unmasked.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Right, because of something called interim name suppression in the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: New Zealand legal system.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's explain this.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: During the murder trial and for a long period afterward,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Kempson's identity was legally hidden from the public in New Zealand.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: His name wasn't published, his face was blurred on TV,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people outside of New
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Zealand were confused by this. Why protect a convicted murderer's identity?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: It is a fascinating and often controversial legal framework. The
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: purpose of interim name suppression is to ensure a fair trial.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, for who?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: When Kempson was convicted of Grace's murder, he was already
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: facing two more entirely separate trials for other crimes. If
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: the New Zealand media published his name and labeled him
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: a convicted murderer, it would irreversibly taint the jury pool
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: for those upcoming trials.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: The judges suppressed the name to protect the integrity of
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: the subsequent legal proceedings, not to protect the criminals.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Though it became almost impossible to enforce in the digital
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: age because UK tabloids and international social media users immediately
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: published his name, violating the New Zealand court order.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the internet moves too fast.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: But this brings us to those other trials, which is
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: where we truly connect the dots. Because Grace Mullane was
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: not an isolated incident. She was the tragic culmination of
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: an escalating pattern of behavior.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: When Kempson was first arrested in 2018 and those blurred
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: images of him were broadcast on the evening news... Two
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: different women recognized his build, his mannerisms, and his circumstances immediately.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: They went straight to the police, and they both had
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: horrific stories to tell.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Because of the massive prejudice a high-profile murder conviction would bring,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: these subsequent trials were held as judge-alone trials in 2020.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Meaning there was no jury present. Right.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: The judge heard the evidence and made the ruling. Let's
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: look at the first one in October 2020.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: An ex-partner of Kempson testified to enduring severe systemic abuse
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: during their relationship. She detailed physical, sexual, emotional, and financial abuse.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: It was everything.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: She testified that he would regularly hold knives to her throat,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: choke her, force her to perform sex acts, and he
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: completely drained her bank account of $ 10, 000 using his lies
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: and manipulation.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: He was found guilty on eight charges and sentenced to
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: seven and a half years for that abuse. And then
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: just a month later, in November 2020, he was on
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: trial again, this time for raping a young British tourist
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: he had met on Tinder. And the timeline here is
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: what truly chills me.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Yes. This sexual assault occurred eight months before he murdered Grace.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Eight months.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: He forced himself on this tourist in his hotel room
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: and explicitly threatened her, saying, If you don't do this,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I will kill you and I will kill your family
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: and you know I will. He was found guilty and
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: given another three and a half years.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: So if we step back and look at this complete
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: horrifying picture, the defense's argument in the motor trial that
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Grace's death was a panic resulting from a consensual accidental
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: encounter completely disintegrates.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Absolutely crumbles.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: We are not looking at an unlucky guy who made
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: a mistake. We are looking at a serial predator. We
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: are looking at a man who systematically targeted vulnerable women,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: often tourists, who lacked a local support system and used
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: a combination of pathological lying, financial exploitation and extreme physical
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: violence to control them.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: As Kempson's own stepbrother phrased it in an interview, he
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: was a pathetic fantasist who lied until he had no
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: way out and then resorted to destructive, lethal behavior.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Behind the grand illusions of a successful businessman or a
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: professional athlete was a deeply dangerous, escalating reality. Predators rarely
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: start with murder. They escalate to it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I think it is so important to acknowledge that those
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: two women came forward. Their bravery, seeing this man on
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the news and choosing to relive their trauma by going
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: to the police... ensured that the full scope of his
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: danger was documented by the justice system.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: He was incredibly brave.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: The judge added those sentences concurrently to his life sentence.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: And it's worth noting that when the judge read the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: guilty verdict for the rape trial, Kempson's polite, cooperative mask
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: completely fell away. He had a highly aggressive outburst in
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the courtroom, yelling obscenities at the judge, finally showing his
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: complete lack of remorse and his utter disrespect for the
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: authority holding him accountable. So.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: As we look at the aftermath of all this, we
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: have to look at the legacy of this case because
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the reverberations were massive, both legally and culturally.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: There was an intense justified public backlash regarding the trial itself.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: People were furious at the victim blaming nature of the
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: rough sex defense.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: It sparked a massive conversation.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: It sparked necessary, urgent conversations in the UK, New Zealand
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: and globally about how the legal system treats victims of
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: sexual and physical violence. and whether defense attorneys should be
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: allowed to use a victim's sex life against them.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: It highlighted the grotesque reality that a victim can effectively
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: be put on trial for their own murder, their private
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: life picked apart and judged just to excuse the person
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: who strangled them.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: It led to massive campaigns to ban that specific defense
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: in courts, pushing for legislation to ensure that consent cannot
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: be used as a defense for inflicting grievous bodily harm
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: that results in death.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Tragically, amidst all of this advocacy and legal reform, Grace's father,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: David Mullane, who had been such a stoic, dignified, and
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: emotional pillar throughout the search and the trial, passed away
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: from cancer in November 2020.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: And it was shortly after that, in December 2020, that
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: the interim name suppression finally lapsed after the Supreme Court
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: denied Kempson's last-ditch appeal.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: The whole world finally saw his face.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: The whole world knew the name of the man who
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: did this. But I don't want to end this deep
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: dive focused on him or his lies. I want to
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: focus on how Grace's family and friends took unimaginable grief
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: and turned it into a force for immense good.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: They really channeled their pain into action. They raised a
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: record amount of money, over 11,000 pounds, for the White
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Ribbon Campaign, which is a global charity dedicated to ending
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: male violence against women by actively engaging with men and
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: boys to challenge toxic behaviors and attitudes.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: And they also established the Love Grace Campaign, and there
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: is a profound, almost heartbreaking poetry to the mechanics of
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: this campaign.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: There really is.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: They ask the public for donations of handbags. They then
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: fill these handbags with essential items, toiletries, luxury items, and comforts.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: They then distribute these bags to women who are seeking
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: refuge from harmful and abusive relationships in shelters.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: It loops back perfectly to who Grace was at her core. Yeah.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: The empathy she showed when donating her hair.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Exactly. She started her journey by giving a piece of
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: herself to kids with cancer. Her family continued that exact
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: spirit of compassion.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: They took a symbol of the night she disappeared, the
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: small handbag that Kempson rifled through to assess her vulnerability
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: and gather predatory intelligence, and they turned it into a
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: literal survival kit for other women fleeing violence.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: That's incredibly powerful.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: They reclaimed that symbol of vulnerability and turned it into
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: a symbol of support and escape.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: So to recap the extensive journey we've taken today, we
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: followed the hopeful steps of a young, adventurous backpacker navigating
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: a new city. We unpacked the digital forensics, An untangled
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: maze of data.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: A lot of data.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: We analyzed the complex psychology of a pathological liar who
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: house of lies finally met the objective truth of technology.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: We saw the exposure of an escalating serial abuser. And
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: we witnessed the enduring, compassionate legacy that a grieving family
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: built in the name of their daughter.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: It is a heavy journey, but an incredibly important one
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: to understand, especially in how we navigate the world today.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: And I want to leave you, the listener... with a
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: final thought to mull over regarding the landscape we explore today.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Consider the double-edged sword of our modern digital lives. The
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: very technology that allows a predator to hide behind a
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: curated Tinder profile, to craft a completely fee life, and
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: to hunt for victims from a hotel room, is the
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: exact same technology. The terabytes of CCTV, the cell tower pings,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: the digital search history that ensures they cannot hide in
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: the real world.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: That's the paradox we started with.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Does our digital world make us more vulnerable to deception?
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Or does it ultimately serve as the most unblinking, inescapable
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: witness to the truth?
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on this deep dive. Keep
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: asking questions, keep looking beyond the surface, and take care
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: of each other out there.