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BRYAN KOHBERGER TRIAL: VICTIM KAYLEE GONCALVES’ DAD WITH US LIVE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Brian Coburger trial joining
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Speaker 1: us tonight. Kaylee Gonsalvas's father is with us live. I'm
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
0:20
Speaker 1: with us.
0:21
Speaker 2: My niece called.
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Speaker 3: And she was very frantic.
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Speaker 4: And she was asking me if I had talked to Kaylee.
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Speaker 4: Katie Spudles directly voicemail circling Maddie.
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Speaker 2: Nobody's answering.
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Speaker 4: It's ringing and ringing, right me, ringing.
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Speaker 2: To return on the TV and we see live news
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Speaker 2: coverage and gives out one play hero.
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Speaker 4: Kaylee and Maddie are both dead.
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Speaker 3: A Quadrille homicide.
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Speaker 5: News came in that the police are responding to a
0:59
Speaker 5: call of someone found unconscious. That's the call that originally
1:05
Speaker 5: came in, and then they responded and then they found
1:09
Speaker 5: before additional bodies, the four bodies of these students inside
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Speaker 5: the home. It was originally a call not retaining two
1:20
Speaker 5: four dead bodies, but that's what they found when they
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Speaker 5: entered the home. It was shocking news to hear, especially
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Speaker 5: coming from just the most quiet town.
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Speaker 1: You were just hearing investigator reporter Ava Waynehouse. At the
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Speaker 1: very beginning, we didn't even understand what had happened. At
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Speaker 1: the beginning, when police were called to the King Road address,
1:49
Speaker 1: no one knew what was to unfold. As the news unfolded,
1:57
Speaker 1: it got worse and worse and worse. And that is
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Speaker 1: for us on the outside looking in. Joining me tonight
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Speaker 1: is a very special guest, Steve Gonsalves. This is Kelly
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Speaker 1: Gonsalvas's father, Steve. Thank you so much for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate you supporting these kids.
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Speaker 1: I really don't even know how to take that, because
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Speaker 1: I don't know who in the world could not support
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Speaker 1: you and your family and Kelly and the other children.
2:34
Speaker 1: There are children that were killed that night. I just
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Speaker 1: want you to know before we start that you and
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Speaker 1: your wife and your family are the objects of so
2:51
Speaker 1: many prayers. I know it's hard for a lot of
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Speaker 1: people that have never suffered as a crime victim to
3:02
Speaker 1: identify or to relate to what you're going through, but
3:07
Speaker 1: I know from firsthand experience that it's horrible and that it.
3:13
Speaker 3: Never goes away.
3:15
Speaker 1: And I look at you as you speak to the press,
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Speaker 1: as you go about your life, and I've got to
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Speaker 1: tell you, I am in so much awe and admiration
3:27
Speaker 1: about how you continue forward, how you put one foot
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Speaker 1: in front of the other and you get up every
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Speaker 1: day and you keep going and you keep fighting. You
3:39
Speaker 1: were mentioning earlier how people ask you, Hey, how did
3:44
Speaker 1: it turn out?
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Speaker 3: What do you mean by that? Steve?
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Speaker 2: We have a we have a Facebook page, so we've
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Speaker 2: garnered attention from other countries, and I guess maybe from
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Speaker 2: those countries respective of it. Two years, they assume it's over.
4:03
Speaker 2: They assume that we're done, so they they'll chime in,
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Speaker 2: they'll comment, they'll send us messages and ask us how
4:11
Speaker 2: did it turn out? You know, people have their own lives,
4:15
Speaker 2: they're running around doing their own things, and then they
4:17
Speaker 2: catch back up. They're like, oh, yeah, what happened there
4:20
Speaker 2: in America? And they reach out to us directly because
4:25
Speaker 2: we've opened up those lines of communication, and we have
4:28
Speaker 2: to tell them it hasn't even started. We have not
4:32
Speaker 2: even got to a schedule yet.
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Speaker 1: You know, when you say it hasn't even started, I've
4:39
Speaker 1: got to tell you, going through the trial is.
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Speaker 3: Going to be pure hell. And you know that in
4:45
Speaker 3: addition to what you've already been through.
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Speaker 1: I wonder how you and your family feel as you
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Speaker 1: see other cases hit the headline and take away focus
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Speaker 1: from what you know to be the most important case
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Speaker 1: there is. I remember when my fiance was murdered, I
5:07
Speaker 1: felt like I had stepped off the world. And I
5:10
Speaker 1: look back and amazingly, the world was still spinning. People
5:14
Speaker 1: are still going to work, people are still going out
5:17
Speaker 1: to nightclubs and movies and out to dinner. And I
5:23
Speaker 1: think it was just too much for me to take
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Speaker 1: in because my world had stopped. I couldn't hear music,
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Speaker 1: I couldn't even hear the clocks ticking in the house.
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Speaker 3: It just no no TV, nothing, Everything had to stop.
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Speaker 1: And I've been wondering how you deal with the fact
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Speaker 1: that seemingly the world is marching on.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're reminded of that every day you wake up
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Speaker 2: and you need to get up and go to work,
5:51
Speaker 2: and you have all these pressing issues. So yeah, it's
5:58
Speaker 2: part of the reason why we're is to make sure
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Speaker 2: that my daughter's case is going to get the right
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Speaker 2: people and the right attention and then you know the
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Speaker 2: right resolution. So you think it's a guarantee in America,
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Speaker 2: but I think those times have changed. I think you
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Speaker 2: really have to come up and you have to say
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Speaker 2: something and you have to get people involved. And I've
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Speaker 2: heard that from other people who have cases that were
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Speaker 2: never solved where they wish they could have gone back
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Speaker 2: and picked up that phone or opened up that door
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Speaker 2: where there's people, you know, knocking on their doors trying
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Speaker 2: to try to get the inside story. So I knew
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Speaker 2: with my child there wasn't anything I wouldn't have done to,
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Speaker 2: you know, make sure that I was talking and getting
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Speaker 2: that information out and getting people's attention that we can't
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Speaker 2: allow people to be go to school, go to college,
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Speaker 2: and be killed in their sleep from from some outsider.
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Speaker 2: You know, there's terrible thing is going on, but a
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Speaker 2: complete stranger hunting your child down and getting them while
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Speaker 2: they're sleeping. It's just just you can't get that through
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Speaker 2: your head that that's even possible.
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Speaker 1: Mister Gonsalves, what you just said has been my theory
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Speaker 1: from about day three, hunting them down because people always ask.
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Speaker 1: Of course, as you know now, the state doesn't have
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Speaker 1: to prove a motive, but practically speaking, a jury will
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Speaker 1: want to know a motive. And I believe with all
7:36
Speaker 1: my heart from what we know now, and that may
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Speaker 1: change as a trial progresses, that the victims were hunted down.
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Speaker 1: There is no motive that we can understand normal people
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Speaker 1: can understand. I think you're right, mister Gonsolvist. I think
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Speaker 1: they were hunted and stalked and watched.
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Speaker 3: Now.
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Speaker 1: I know the state came out in court and said
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Speaker 1: there's no evidence of stalking, and I take that to
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Speaker 1: Maine in the legal sense, like sending Kelly emails or letters,
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Speaker 1: or leaving things at her doorstep, just showing up at
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Speaker 1: her work trying to date her. I don't think it's
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Speaker 1: stalking in that sense the way we normally think of it.
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Speaker 1: I think it was more, as you said, hunting.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to be careful how I describe some
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Speaker 2: of the things that's out there. But yeah, this is
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Speaker 2: a criminologist. This is somebody who spent you know, probably
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Speaker 2: a century studying law and getting the ins and outs.
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Speaker 2: This person knows there cannot be a direct connection and
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Speaker 2: easy direct connection. That's how everyone gets caught. So you
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Speaker 2: got to reverse engineer it back to what he was
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Speaker 2: doing and the steps he was taking. I think this
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Speaker 2: will go all the way back to his Pennsylvania home,
9:05
Speaker 2: in his actual room. You're going to find out that
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Speaker 2: he planned this murder from that actual location, and he
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Speaker 2: left Pennsylvania with a thought and a motivation to go
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Speaker 2: out and kill someone.
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Speaker 1: You know, Steve, you are bringing up a lot of
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Speaker 1: evidentiary implications with what you just said. I think what
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Speaker 1: you're saying is entirely possible. So you believe, and I
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Speaker 1: understand you are not divulging your source.
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Speaker 3: You believe, and.
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Speaker 1: I'm interpreting that Coburger was at Pullman and upon going
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Speaker 1: back home before he started school, he had locked into
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Speaker 1: your daughter.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if he locked into the actual victims.
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Speaker 2: I just know that there's signs that point to this
10:01
Speaker 2: individual had a lot of troubled past and he I
10:08
Speaker 2: believe they're going to show that this crime started back there.
10:13
Speaker 2: I think they're going to be able to prove that
10:16
Speaker 2: he thought and planned and strategized this murder and came
10:20
Speaker 2: out here picked a community. I even think the Smile
10:25
Speaker 2: and personal film. I think he picked this area because
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Speaker 2: of some previous killers in this area, and I think
10:30
Speaker 2: he came out here thinking that he was going to
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Speaker 2: outdo them. He was going to be that type of killer.
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Speaker 2: The Northwest has a history of some pretty prevalent mass murder,
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Speaker 2: serial killers, and I think he came out here with
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Speaker 2: an idea and a notion that he was going to
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Speaker 2: show them how to do it.
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Speaker 1: I don't think there's any question, mister Gonsalvas, that he
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Speaker 1: was motivated. Of course, I'm just a trial lawyer and
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Speaker 1: a crime victim. I'm not a shrink. I don't think
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Speaker 1: there's any question that his attack, and of course he's
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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in the court of law.
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Speaker 1: His attack was motivated by his bizarre interest in criminals,
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Speaker 1: the criminal mind, and criminology. It could have been a
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Speaker 1: desire to know what it feels like to murder someone.
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Speaker 1: I don't know the motivation, and frankly, don't care about
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Speaker 1: the motivation. I care only about motiv as it relates
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Speaker 1: to what a jury will want to hear. It's all
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Speaker 1: I would care about, because to me, it doesn't matter
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Speaker 1: why he did it, matters that he did it. Question
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Speaker 1: to you, and I know you've been asked this before,
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Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start?
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Speaker 3: For you? When? Where? How did you learn something horrible?
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Speaker 2: It happened We were sitting at home as a family.
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Speaker 2: Almost everybody was here. Olivia was living down southern California,
12:10
Speaker 2: but everyone else was here. We were watching a football game,
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Speaker 2: and you know, we started the phone rang and we
12:18
Speaker 2: heard that something was going on. As a father of
12:21
Speaker 2: five kids, I can't tell you how many times we
12:24
Speaker 2: think something bad has happened and the kids. We can't
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Speaker 2: find one of the kids and they're just hiding underneath
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Speaker 2: the table or something. So you try to stay calm,
12:34
Speaker 2: and you try to tell yourself that this is just
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Speaker 2: some rumor something that's been blown out of proportion. Maybe
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Speaker 2: there was some type of accident, but it's not like
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Speaker 2: what it's been described to you. So you just sit
12:49
Speaker 2: there and you start getting active. You know, we all
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Speaker 2: started grabbing computers, laptops and started searching. And then we
12:56
Speaker 2: did see that, you know, King Road on King Road.
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Speaker 2: So then we're thinking it's a bad fight, some kind
13:04
Speaker 2: of quarrel between a relationship with something, the things that
13:08
Speaker 2: you typically hear out here in Idaho, where you know
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Speaker 2: you're going to have those types of fights and those
13:13
Speaker 2: type of news stories, But you're never thinking it's going
13:16
Speaker 2: to be a homicide of four people. You know, it
13:20
Speaker 2: just that just doesn't go there. And I don't think
13:24
Speaker 2: we even understood what happened for weeks you know, we
13:27
Speaker 2: were just in a daze, like what you're describing, like
13:32
Speaker 2: I couldn't even hear music, you know, music stopped harmonizing.
13:37
Speaker 2: Things just don't make sense anymore. You're just you're just broken,
13:42
Speaker 2: and you're just trying to figure out who's responsible and
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Speaker 2: what you're going to do about it, and how you're
13:49
Speaker 2: going to get to the hold them accountable and figure
13:52
Speaker 2: out the truth. You know, I really needed to know
13:55
Speaker 2: the truth, and since that day, we've been on a
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Speaker 2: mission to make sure that we do everything to get
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Speaker 2: to the bottom of this.
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Speaker 3: Crime.
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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Gray. You know, Steve, I remember when
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Speaker 1: I first learned on the phone from Keith's sister that
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Speaker 1: he was dead. First of all, I didn't believe it.
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Speaker 1: I thought there had been an accident of some sort,
14:34
Speaker 1: and if I could just get there really quickly, I
14:36
Speaker 1: could fix it. I could talk to the doctors, I
14:40
Speaker 1: could talk to the empt Somehow, I.
14:42
Speaker 3: Didn't even know where he was, and I remember.
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Speaker 1: Not believing he was dead until I was reading upside
14:55
Speaker 1: down what my pastor was writing and said Bernstein Funeral Home.
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Speaker 1: Then it started kind of dawning on me, and I
15:05
Speaker 1: assumed it had been an accident until he told me
15:10
Speaker 1: that Keith had been murdered shot. When you first got
15:17
Speaker 1: that call, mister Consolvis, what were you told that allowed
15:23
Speaker 1: you to think, well, there's been some misunderstanding, there's been
15:26
Speaker 1: an accident.
15:27
Speaker 3: I'm going to find out what's really happening.
15:30
Speaker 1: Like she's hiding under the table like when she did
15:32
Speaker 1: when she was little. What were you told to make
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Speaker 1: you think, Okay, I can fix this.
15:39
Speaker 3: I'm going to find out what's happening.
15:40
Speaker 2: You know, I have so many other children around me
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Speaker 2: that were in so much pain that I really didn't
15:46
Speaker 2: have a lot of time to even think about myself.
15:49
Speaker 2: I grew up on a football team all the way
15:52
Speaker 2: up to college, and your coaches just pounding your head
15:56
Speaker 2: that it's not about you, it's about your team, it's
15:58
Speaker 2: around it's about the people around you. So I kind
16:02
Speaker 2: of just turned myself off and then just focused on
16:05
Speaker 2: all these kids that were in pain. And then I said,
16:10
Speaker 2: I'm kind of old fashioned, So I just said, you
16:12
Speaker 2: know what, guys, we have to pick up the phone.
16:14
Speaker 2: We have to figure out what happened. You need to
16:16
Speaker 2: call all of her friends. And that's what they did.
16:20
Speaker 2: They got out on social media. They started finding everything,
16:22
Speaker 2: and that's when it became It still wasn't real, though,
16:27
Speaker 2: it wasn't real, because I know my girls. I know, Maddie,
16:30
Speaker 2: these are's like some of the sweetest, most gentle souls
16:34
Speaker 2: that you've ever met. So gentle people don't get murdered.
16:38
Speaker 2: It's just not It's not something that even makes sense
16:42
Speaker 2: to you. So I don't know when it actually became real.
16:48
Speaker 2: I know that when you talk about going to the funeral,
16:51
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking just how appalling the whole thing
16:55
Speaker 2: was and how gross it was, and how I had
16:57
Speaker 2: to go into this place and I'm conducting business. That's
17:01
Speaker 2: where I switched. You know, I can't be a victim.
17:06
Speaker 2: I'm one of those guys. This is like, I'm going
17:08
Speaker 2: to turn this on whoever did this, and I'm coming
17:11
Speaker 2: for him, and I'm going to get them, and we're
17:14
Speaker 2: going to bring wrath on this individual. And if that
17:18
Speaker 2: means I got to wake up four in the morning
17:21
Speaker 2: and do interviews and talk to people and work with
17:25
Speaker 2: willing people as strangers become friends. And that's what we're
17:30
Speaker 2: That's what we did, you know, That's what we're doing
17:32
Speaker 2: right now to this day. I'm still trying to connect
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Speaker 2: dots with anyone who's listening, you know, and that includes
17:40
Speaker 2: the prosecution team, whoever wants to pick up the phone
17:45
Speaker 2: and reach out to us if they have something. We're
17:47
Speaker 2: still here, We're still collecting data.
17:50
Speaker 5: When everything originally happened, the lack of confirmation, you know
17:56
Speaker 5: from I mean, at first it was rumors of murder
17:59
Speaker 5: suicide that was ruled out, things like that. When you
18:03
Speaker 5: live in a small college town, it hurts to not
18:09
Speaker 5: know exactly. And even forty eight hours later, when we
18:12
Speaker 5: were still on seeing students who are feeling like they
18:16
Speaker 5: wanted more from local authorities, and especially wanted more for
18:22
Speaker 5: the families of the victims.
18:25
Speaker 6: Goldberger's trial officially changed venues to Ada County in hopes
18:28
Speaker 6: of a fair trial. What's next for the suspected Idaho
18:33
Speaker 6: students killer.
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Speaker 7: Just around three am, in fact, it might have been
18:38
Speaker 7: even a little earlier, a man named Brian Christopher Coberger
18:42
Speaker 7: was taken into custody in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. That is nearly
18:47
Speaker 7: three thousand miles away, in fact, much more more than
18:50
Speaker 7: twenty five hundred miles away from the crime scene here
18:53
Speaker 7: in Moscow, Idaho.
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Speaker 1: That's right, arrested three thousand miles away from the crime
19:00
Speaker 1: scene at King Road, the spot where Steve Goldsolves believes
19:06
Speaker 1: the murder plan was actually hatched. Who is Brian Coburger. Well,
19:15
Speaker 1: we can come up with all the theories we want,
19:17
Speaker 1: but I want you.
19:18
Speaker 3: To see Coburger on video. Now.
19:22
Speaker 1: This is after a female traffic cop, and I want
19:26
Speaker 1: to emphasize a female, a lady cop had pulled him
19:30
Speaker 1: over for a traffic violation. Yeah.
19:34
Speaker 2: I was just slightly into the crosswalk. So yeah, yeah.
19:38
Speaker 5: Where I'm from Pennsylvania, we actually don't have like crosswalks.
19:42
Speaker 8: Oh, so interest here if you're kind of slightly Yeah,
19:45
Speaker 8: there's a little bit more leeway as well, Like there
19:47
Speaker 8: are a few.
19:48
Speaker 5: Lines, Like there's one white line, there's another one.
19:51
Speaker 8: Like there's like a like a certain margins from which
19:54
Speaker 8: you can actually kind of quit your Viet Goo plaice
19:57
Speaker 8: or vehicle.
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:59
Speaker 9: Yeah, laws very state to state, but there is a
20:02
Speaker 9: law in Washington for blocking an intersection like that proceeding
20:06
Speaker 9: through and you don't when you're just stalling.
20:09
Speaker 3: I forget the actual verbiage.
20:10
Speaker 9: I can find it for you, but it's like stalling
20:12
Speaker 9: blocking an intersection. I'm just curious about Oh no.
20:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can find it for you. He seems normal.
20:18
Speaker 10: He's actually challenging the lady cop on her knowledge of
20:22
Speaker 10: the traffic law and actually has her look up the law.
20:29
Speaker 9: Listen, Okay, so I found it. So I don't know
20:32
Speaker 9: what in Pennsylvania to the where you go to find
20:36
Speaker 9: law has, But in Washington it's called the Revise Code
20:39
Speaker 9: of Washington. So I'll try to turn my brightness up.
20:41
Speaker 9: But it's basically it's just called an RCW. So it's
20:45
Speaker 9: RCW forty six sixty one dot two zero two. So
20:49
Speaker 9: it's no driver shall enter an intersection unless there is
20:52
Speaker 9: significant space on the other side of the intersection to
20:58
Speaker 9: accommodate the vehicle he is operating without obstructing the passage
21:01
Speaker 9: of other vehicles, despite any traffic control signals signal indications.
21:06
Speaker 1: And it goes on and on and on. Joining us
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Speaker 1: Tonight Live is the dad of Kili Gunsolves. Steve is
21:15
Speaker 1: with us, but to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned
21:19
Speaker 1: psychoalyst out of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker. You
21:23
Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, we see
21:27
Speaker 1: not only that and the dismissive treatment, the challenging of
21:32
Speaker 1: the lady officer.
21:33
Speaker 3: His car is.
21:34
Speaker 1: In the crosswalk while people are trying to cross.
21:37
Speaker 3: Okay, simple, easy.
21:39
Speaker 1: But then we fast forward to helping out and I'm
21:44
Speaker 1: putting that in quotes a female colleague with her home
21:48
Speaker 1: security video when he actually hooks it up so.
21:53
Speaker 3: He can watch her at home.
21:56
Speaker 1: What changing clothes, going to the bathroom, who comes to
22:00
Speaker 1: her front door, sitting on the sofa watching TV. I mean,
22:05
Speaker 1: it goes from one thing to the next. Regarding women.
22:08
Speaker 1: We see him being asked to leave bars because he
22:12
Speaker 1: freaks women out, walking.
22:14
Speaker 3: Up to them saying, Hey, what's your home address. It's
22:17
Speaker 3: just on and on and on with him and women.
22:23
Speaker 1: I'm curious as to how that played in to him fixing.
22:28
Speaker 11: On Kelly Nancy four psychopaths, which he most certainly is.
22:35
Speaker 11: Sex and violence are fused, they are considered one and
22:40
Speaker 11: the same. They go hand in hand. So with the
22:44
Speaker 11: female cop, we can't see that he's lying prolifically. He
22:47
Speaker 11: says there are no crosswalks in his state. He's fascinated
22:51
Speaker 11: by the law because that is the thing that gives
22:55
Speaker 11: him proximity to thinking about crimes, just like an alcoholic
22:58
Speaker 11: might work in a bar, or a pedophile might work.
23:01
Speaker 3: In a school.
23:02
Speaker 11: A man who wants to commit murder will surround himself
23:05
Speaker 11: with criminality. But to answer your question, I've always felt
23:10
Speaker 11: that these girls are so beautiful and lovely that he
23:15
Speaker 11: wanted to eradicate something good.
23:17
Speaker 1: You know, when we think about what doctor Bethany just said,
23:24
Speaker 1: the aspect steve, which I know no one likes to
23:29
Speaker 1: think about, but proving this case will require this, the
23:37
Speaker 1: lying in wait aspect, There's no question about it. Yes,
23:42
Speaker 1: the state is said in open court there's no evidence
23:44
Speaker 1: of stalking, but we know his phone turned up along
23:49
Speaker 1: that strip behind the king wrote address multiple times.
23:54
Speaker 3: We know he was watching the house and your daughter.
23:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, for people who aren't familiar with this area, you
24:02
Speaker 2: don't just randomly take a right turn and find yourself
24:06
Speaker 2: in another state. You purposely have to drive and take
24:12
Speaker 2: like at one time we looked it up, it was
24:15
Speaker 2: like fifteen different intersections and turns to get from Pullman
24:21
Speaker 2: to anywhere close to what are these girls in Ethan work.
24:26
Speaker 2: So it's just not like a random Oh, I just
24:28
Speaker 2: took wrong turn here and I found myself in another state,
24:32
Speaker 2: in a town that I'm not familiar with. This person
24:36
Speaker 2: was very familiar with those areas, and there's not a
24:41
Speaker 2: lot of real reasons why he should be over in
24:44
Speaker 2: those areas that often. And I'm sure that is going
24:50
Speaker 2: to be dug into quite deeply once we get into
24:52
Speaker 2: trial time.
24:53
Speaker 1: When I think about the number of times that we
24:57
Speaker 1: know of, I wonder how many times are there that
24:59
Speaker 1: we don't don't know of that he was in that
25:02
Speaker 1: area watching that house. I heard doctor Bethany say something
25:11
Speaker 1: about him.
25:13
Speaker 3: It's hard for regular people like us to relate to
25:16
Speaker 3: what I'm about to say.
25:18
Speaker 1: A person that wants to eradicate destroy something good. Steve,
25:27
Speaker 1: tell me about your daughter, my girl and boy. You know,
25:31
Speaker 1: I have twins the same age, the same age, and
25:36
Speaker 1: I can't imagine why someone would want to hurt them.
25:42
Speaker 3: Tell me about Killy.
25:44
Speaker 2: Katie was a beautiful friend. She got along with everyone.
25:49
Speaker 2: We never even had to ever have any kind of
25:53
Speaker 2: conflict with the school or teacher or anything along those lines.
25:57
Speaker 2: So and Maggie, I know Maddy exactly, was the same
26:02
Speaker 2: type of person. So I feel like, if if you
26:07
Speaker 2: are a corrupted soul and you want to strike out
26:10
Speaker 2: of society, you're going to look for somebody who's going
26:14
Speaker 2: to matter, somebody that the world looks at and says,
26:17
Speaker 2: that's a beautiful person. That's who I want to be
26:19
Speaker 2: like that. That's that's a pinnacle of achieving being a
26:24
Speaker 2: good human being. So I think that, in the end,
26:28
Speaker 2: is what made them targets. It was their their beauty,
26:31
Speaker 2: their smile, their laughter, their way they treated others. They
26:35
Speaker 2: played by the rules, doing things the way that you
26:37
Speaker 2: want your children and you raise your children to do so.
26:41
Speaker 2: In a way, he was striking out when it was
26:44
Speaker 2: a statement he was making when he picked them. I
26:47
Speaker 2: don't like him looking like he did a white collar crime.
26:50
Speaker 2: This isn't a white color crime, people. This is this
26:53
Speaker 2: is people.
26:54
Speaker 3: You work your.
26:55
Speaker 2: Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody
26:58
Speaker 2: has a dream of their children going to call. You
27:00
Speaker 2: trust the community, you trust the school, you send them off,
27:03
Speaker 2: and then they get killed while they're asleep that night.
27:06
Speaker 3: In their beds.
27:07
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to treat this guy like he
27:09
Speaker 2: just like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.
27:13
Speaker 2: It's not white collar. The person who did this crime
27:17
Speaker 2: looked at one of the victims and said, I'm here
27:18
Speaker 2: to help you. If that's not malice, that's the most
27:22
Speaker 2: type of evil that you could ever hear of. That
27:24
Speaker 2: shouldn't be rewarded with.
27:25
Speaker 3: The suit and the first haircut every time he came.
27:29
Speaker 2: That's wild. That's wild.
27:31
Speaker 4: We've been told that he does have shopples around his
27:34
Speaker 4: knees or whatnot, but it's like, you know, that's I
27:36
Speaker 4: don't I don't want.
27:36
Speaker 2: To be hidden.
27:37
Speaker 1: You are hearing mister and missus Gonsalves, the parents of
27:40
Speaker 1: Katie Gonsalves, speaking out crime stories, with Nancy Grace.
27:55
Speaker 3: Two Steve Gonsalves joining us tonight.
27:59
Speaker 1: This is a chillies father, What do you make of
28:03
Speaker 1: Coburger's new look with his uh, let's come metrosexual and
28:12
Speaker 1: apparently there are female fans of his going crazy online.
28:21
Speaker 1: I mean, how bass awkwards is that that this guy
28:27
Speaker 1: would have fans demanding hair salon, trim, new clothes every
28:34
Speaker 1: time he goes to court, not in a jury's presence.
28:39
Speaker 1: It's like he's getting everything he wants. Every demand is
28:44
Speaker 1: given to him at his whim.
28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the reason why we felt the
28:50
Speaker 2: need to get a lawyer to make sure that everything
28:52
Speaker 2: was done by the book. And I questioned that everything was,
28:57
Speaker 2: you know, done on paper or where where were these
29:02
Speaker 2: rights coming from? Who was making the decisions to give
29:05
Speaker 2: him the ability to not have normal cuffs. I just
29:09
Speaker 2: don't think you any father is going to be okay
29:11
Speaker 2: with their accused mass murderer being treated with any kind
29:17
Speaker 2: of preferial treatment whatsoever. I'm not I'm not asking for
29:20
Speaker 2: him to be in shackles and orange during his trial.
29:23
Speaker 2: Everybody deserves a fair trial, and an a fair trial
29:26
Speaker 2: means you look presentable and you don't look like a criminal.
29:30
Speaker 2: But we're not even there yet. They're trying to delight everything,
29:34
Speaker 2: and nobody's arguing that they're not trying to, you know,
29:36
Speaker 2: push things back and won't asking for more time and
29:39
Speaker 2: I need more years And in my mitigation, which for
29:44
Speaker 2: people don't know, comes at the end of the trial,
29:46
Speaker 2: but my mitigation expert witness is I need to delay it.
29:52
Speaker 2: I'm just we're frustrated that he's being treated with these
29:56
Speaker 2: these these preferential things, and we can't find them on paper.
29:59
Speaker 2: You know, me who made this decision? I can hold
30:02
Speaker 2: that person accountable. You know, these are elected officials. I
30:05
Speaker 2: can hold people accountable. But if you don't put it
30:08
Speaker 2: on paper. It makes it very hard for me to
30:09
Speaker 2: understand who did it. So this new judges is doing
30:14
Speaker 2: it by the book. Everything I've seen I like and
30:17
Speaker 2: and that's all I'm asking. We're not asking for him
30:20
Speaker 2: to come in there with the ball and chain and
30:23
Speaker 2: you know, a mask over the top of him. We're
30:26
Speaker 2: just saying, why is this man being treated different than
30:29
Speaker 2: the criminal that comes in an hour after him or
30:31
Speaker 2: an hour before him. Why is he being treated one
30:34
Speaker 2: way as a mass murder and these other individuals are
30:38
Speaker 2: being treated in a different manner. That's that's what we're
30:42
Speaker 2: pointing out, and that's what we're using like forms like
30:46
Speaker 2: this to bring to people's attention that some of these
30:50
Speaker 2: things are questionable and we don't like him, we don't
30:54
Speaker 2: like them one bed.
30:56
Speaker 3: Have you seen him in court?
30:59
Speaker 2: Yes, I've definitely seen in court multiple times. The very
31:01
Speaker 2: first chance I was given an opportunity to see him
31:04
Speaker 2: in person, I was there. And we're going to keep
31:09
Speaker 2: that same position where when we can be there and
31:13
Speaker 2: it's a court hearing of any magnitude of any real
31:16
Speaker 2: decision being making, we're going to be there.
31:18
Speaker 3: Did he look at you?
31:20
Speaker 2: No, I've heard that sometimes he has looked in that direction,
31:25
Speaker 2: but I've never seen him look at me.
31:27
Speaker 1: I want to tell you what happened, mister Gonsalves. When
31:30
Speaker 1: I did go to my fiance's murder trial, which was
31:33
Speaker 1: a big blur. I thought my dad drove me, but
31:38
Speaker 1: my mom also drove me. Had had to take off
31:40
Speaker 1: of work, and my dad, at the time was working
31:44
Speaker 1: for the railroad his whole life, and my mom was
31:47
Speaker 1: payroll clerk, and they would take off to drive me.
31:51
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, over two hours one way to get there,
31:56
Speaker 1: and I never focused on the defendant. But at the
32:02
Speaker 1: end of my testimony, I came down off a very
32:06
Speaker 1: tall witness stand, it was equal to the judge, and
32:10
Speaker 1: I was walking out, and I looked down at the
32:13
Speaker 1: States table and I saw Keith's bloody clothes, which I
32:18
Speaker 1: had never seen until that moment. And then I kept
32:21
Speaker 1: walking and I came to the defense table, and I
32:25
Speaker 1: looked at the lawyers first, because he was flanked by
32:28
Speaker 1: a bunch of lawyers, and I looked him in the eyes,
32:31
Speaker 1: and they looked down. And then I looked at the defendant,
32:36
Speaker 1: I guess for the first time, in the face, in
32:40
Speaker 1: the eyes, and he looked down, and none of them
32:44
Speaker 1: would look up at me standing at the table.
32:47
Speaker 3: And then I walked out.
32:48
Speaker 1: It was dead quiet in the courtroom and all I
32:51
Speaker 1: could hear in my boots on that marble floor walking out.
32:57
Speaker 1: And I'm curious went through your mind when you first
33:03
Speaker 1: saw Brian Coburger.
33:06
Speaker 2: I don't know where I actually heard it, but I've
33:07
Speaker 2: always heard, and it's always stuck with me that the
33:10
Speaker 2: eyes of the opening of a man's soul. So yes,
33:14
Speaker 2: I wanted to peer through this man's soul and understand
33:20
Speaker 2: the best that it's possible, what kind of person this
33:23
Speaker 2: person is. So yeah, it's not easy, but I have
33:32
Speaker 2: an obligation and I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking
33:35
Speaker 2: about what this person stepped into when he picked my daughter.
33:39
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's a very uncomfortable situation. We get
33:46
Speaker 2: people requesting all the time for us to sign off
33:49
Speaker 2: so they can get their hands on these photos, these
33:53
Speaker 2: a top of the photos, or these photos of the
33:56
Speaker 2: crime scene. It's disgusting and we've made known.
34:00
Speaker 1: Steve, I don't understand who is wanting you to sign
34:04
Speaker 1: off to.
34:04
Speaker 3: Release those photos. I mean, I've never.
34:09
Speaker 2: I'm assuming there from other countries.
34:11
Speaker 1: I've never seen the crime scene photos in my fiance's case.
34:15
Speaker 1: I've never tried to see them except I was so
34:18
Speaker 1: young when that happened. I had never even been in
34:21
Speaker 1: a courthouse. I didn't even know what a defendant and
34:24
Speaker 1: a plaintive was. I knew nothing. I've never gone back
34:30
Speaker 1: to the scene where he was murdered, because for me,
34:33
Speaker 1: that just means reliving it. And I have children to
34:37
Speaker 1: raise now and I don't want to be in that
34:40
Speaker 1: again ever. But when you say people want you to
34:45
Speaker 1: release the crime scene photos of your daughter, what are
34:52
Speaker 1: they thinking? They're like, they're like vultures circling. It's I
34:57
Speaker 1: don't understand that. How dare they?
34:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, clickbait, it's viewers. It's it's disgusting, and we don't
35:07
Speaker 2: want it. We want nothing to do with any of
35:09
Speaker 2: that disgusting behavior. And hopefully it's it's not even possible.
35:14
Speaker 2: But as a just a regular parent, you don't know,
35:17
Speaker 2: you don't know what's possible. I mean, so much of
35:19
Speaker 2: this is so new to us, and it doesn't make sense.
35:23
Speaker 2: So if one day I woke up and there was
35:26
Speaker 2: pictures of our our children on a newspaper with some
35:29
Speaker 2: blurred out stuff. I wouldn't even know what to say
35:32
Speaker 2: or what to do or what my rights would be.
35:35
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's definitely people out there right now who
35:39
Speaker 2: want to make money of a crime, and they know
35:42
Speaker 2: that that's something that would bring people to them. And
35:45
Speaker 2: we're in an attention economy and these people want that.
35:49
Speaker 2: They actually are hunting at them.
35:51
Speaker 6: Suspected Idaho students killer Brian Coberger gets a win as
35:56
Speaker 6: Judge Grant's change a venue request.
36:00
Speaker 8: His family has attended every hearing in Brian Coberger's prosecution,
36:04
Speaker 8: but is now forced a fundraise to afford relocating to
36:07
Speaker 8: Boise for the trial. The family of ten released a
36:10
Speaker 8: statement expressing their extreme disappointment in the decision, criticizing the
36:13
Speaker 8: state's failure to cross examine the defense's witnesses effectively. Now
36:18
Speaker 8: they are hoping to raise enough money to rent a home,
36:21
Speaker 8: feed themselves, and account for three months of lost work.
36:24
Speaker 1: Steve gonsalves, this is Cally's father. He's living in pure
36:31
Speaker 1: hell every day, waking up to relive the day before this,
36:37
Speaker 1: while he's got other children, his wife of course, who
36:41
Speaker 1: was suffering as well, and now dealing with having to
36:46
Speaker 1: travel to Boise hours away, miss work, set up housekeeping
36:52
Speaker 1: there and drag.
36:53
Speaker 3: Himself to court every day.
36:59
Speaker 1: Mister again, please know for what solace it is to
37:03
Speaker 1: you that you and your family are the object of
37:06
Speaker 1: so many prayers, and I hate what you are.
37:11
Speaker 3: About to go through.
37:13
Speaker 1: It's a horrible ordeal where you'll have to relive everything
37:18
Speaker 1: that happened from the first moment you picked that phone
37:21
Speaker 1: up and learn that something was wrong.
37:26
Speaker 3: Up to the moment in court, and you will be looking.
37:29
Speaker 1: Right at Brian Koberger the entire time, if he will
37:34
Speaker 1: even meet your gaze, which I doubt.
37:40
Speaker 3: Why Why is this trial moved?
37:44
Speaker 1: I understand to protect it on appeal if we get
37:48
Speaker 1: a conviction, But my question to you, the hardship is
37:53
Speaker 1: going to bring upon you and your family. You've set
37:56
Speaker 1: up a gofund me I want to talk about it's important.
38:01
Speaker 3: That you have the go fund me.
38:03
Speaker 1: Help Kieli Gounsolves's family attend trial, explain the hardship it
38:11
Speaker 1: will bring on you and your family.
38:13
Speaker 3: State.
38:13
Speaker 2: I'm literally running to like the equivalent of a train
38:17
Speaker 2: wreck that has my daughter it and Maddie. I don't
38:22
Speaker 2: want to be in that courtroom. I don't want to
38:24
Speaker 2: see and hear what I'm going to have to hear.
38:27
Speaker 2: But my daughter deserves it. She's beautiful, She's everything to us,
38:32
Speaker 2: and I have to be there for her. And I
38:36
Speaker 2: I'm going to be willing to hear and see things
38:39
Speaker 2: that I never ever thought i'd ever have to be facing.
38:43
Speaker 2: But I have to. Knowing what I know, I can't
38:49
Speaker 2: sit on the sideline. I mean, I have a lawyer
38:54
Speaker 2: who was a prosecutor who prosecuted murder cases, and he said,
38:58
Speaker 2: nothing is more impact to that jury than to see
39:02
Speaker 2: firsthand the damage that this person is done to the
39:06
Speaker 2: people that are important to them.
39:08
Speaker 3: Steve, you have to be there.
39:11
Speaker 1: I know in your own heart you feel you have
39:13
Speaker 1: to be there, but as a felon, a prosecutor over
39:17
Speaker 1: a decade, you have to be there, and you have
39:21
Speaker 1: to have your wife there, and you have to have
39:24
Speaker 1: the entire family there, and they have to be on
39:28
Speaker 1: the very front row behind the prosecution. There's no way
39:34
Speaker 1: for this cup to be taken away from you. There's
39:39
Speaker 1: no way you can't show up. You understand that, right
39:42
Speaker 1: I do, and.
39:45
Speaker 2: I don't want to put it on anyone else. But
39:47
Speaker 2: I hope, I hope all all families find the strength
39:51
Speaker 2: to at least be there at certain key moments because
39:56
Speaker 2: they are all these children. People need to understand and
40:00
Speaker 2: how much pain and how beautiful these people were. And
40:05
Speaker 2: the only way that you can really show them that
40:08
Speaker 2: it is through your face, through your emotions, through you
40:11
Speaker 2: being there supporting them. And yes it's grulish, and yes
40:15
Speaker 2: it's gross, and we don't want to be there, but
40:19
Speaker 2: I feel I have to be there. My family will
40:22
Speaker 2: be there. But I know we're not the only victims.
40:25
Speaker 2: And I know that some people think that we're just
40:28
Speaker 2: trying to draw the attention to ours. It's not that
40:31
Speaker 2: I just can't ask other people to walk my path.
40:36
Speaker 2: I can only walk mine and my family I can
40:39
Speaker 2: walk and coach and counsel them. But I hope everybody
40:44
Speaker 2: finds some strength to let that courtroom understand what the
40:49
Speaker 2: world is missing.
40:50
Speaker 1: Mister Gonsalvez, thank you for being with us tonight. And
40:55
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine any father doing a better job for
41:01
Speaker 1: his child than you are doing tonight and every night
41:06
Speaker 1: for Kelly, and I'm just very proud that we got
41:09
Speaker 1: to speak with you. For those of you watching or
41:13
Speaker 1: listening now, please help Kelly Gonsolves his family attend her trial.
41:19
Speaker 1: It will be a long and arduous ordeal for them.
41:24
Speaker 1: They are leaving their home, they are leaving their jobs
41:29
Speaker 1: in doing without, to be in court and fight for her.
41:36
Speaker 1: I want to thank mister Gonsalves for being with us.
41:41
Speaker 1: I also want to thank you for joining us here.
41:46
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, good bye friend,