Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 49: Jacob Garvin | Training Hard, Training Smart, and Building Better Systems

Transcript

EP 49: Jacob Garvin | Training Hard, Training Smart, and Building Better Systems · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

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  Or training done, done within reason will not only get you
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  probably better results, but the ability in chemistry, if your
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  whole team is always going to be like super optimal, kind of easy
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  movement based list all the time, then you're not really
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  bonded to anything. If you can kind of look at it
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  full picture, like there's a, there's a six month period to go
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  hard, the six month period to train smart.
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  You're not, you're probably never not.
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  You're never going easy necessarily, but it's getting
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  assets to bind like we were probably setting up to fail.
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  If it's just game level readiness year round, you're
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  playing teams that are probably just naturally bigger, faster,
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  stronger than you have more resources.
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  You're already at dispatch, so you cannot afford to widen the
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  gap by not taking nutrition seriously.
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  It's pretty, it's a pretty cool job, arguably, I think one of
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  the best in the world. And that's why I went into this.
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  And so if the sunshine tax of that is those early years are
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  going to be really hard and very time consuming, I think it's
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  still well worth it. My career goal right now is to
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  turn the two programs I'm currently working with end of
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  dynasties. And I think there there'll be a
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  lot of film in that in, in doing it with the with the people you
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  love and, and kind of staying true to one spot.
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  Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
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  I'm your host, John Bloom, and today's guest is Jacob Garvin.
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  Jacob is the Director of Sports Performance for women's
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  basketball and volleyball at Oral Roberts.
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  I've had an experience at Stanford, SMU, and Exos.
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  Jacob dives deep into his path to ORU, including the impact of
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  starting out as an athletic training trainer before
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  switching to S&C. Jacob also gets into how he
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  builds out his training weeks based on Daniel Bove's quadrant
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  system, his use of force plates, how he sprints his volleyball on
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  women's basketball players, and how to dial in the nutrition
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  program at the mid major level. If you're getting value from
• 1:52
  these conversations, give the show a follow and leave a
• 1:54
  review. It helps us continue to reach
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  and impact more coaches. Let's get into today's episode.
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  Jacob, man, I'm, I'm excited to get a talk with you today.
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  You know, we've never, we've never actually going to talk in
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  person before really connected in person, but we've, we've
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  worked with some, you know, some of the same people, been around
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  some of the same people and I've heard really great things about
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  what you're doing. I really enjoy the stuff you put
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  out on Instagram. So man, I'm excited to learn
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  from you today. I appreciate John, same thing.
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  Like I'm a big fan of the podcast and it's an honor to be
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  on. Yeah.
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  It's cool to see. You know, I've seen Anthony on
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  here. I don't know Colton Ross, who?
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  Well, I don't know him personally at all, but I've
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  heard so much about him. Yeah, me being in the volleyball
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  position. So it's cool to see him on here
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  recently. Yeah, I'm, I'm excited to be
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  here. Well, cool man.
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  You know, it's funny. We we found out we we both grew
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  up in Plano. But you know, I don't really
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  know your story, man. Like what's your story of
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  getting into this field, getting the profession and getting now
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  to or Roberts, where you at now? Yeah, so I got a, I'll say,
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  similar story to life, strength coaches.
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  I grew up playing sports, played football, ran track, played
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  basketball. Basketball became my main thing.
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  Played it through high school. I wasn't good enough to play in
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  college. Just really loved the game.
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  But I knew I wanted to stay involved in it.
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  And I was always a kid who kind of liked the training process, I
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  think, more than my teammates. Like I enjoyed practice.
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  I enjoyed the weight room. It wasn't something I was like,
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  OK, I just want to play games and I just want to, you know,
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  get to the end goal. It was kind of like I enjoyed
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  the the grind of it all. And so that kind of led me down,
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  you know, being the kid looking up things on YouTube, basketball
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  training, Audi building and all these kind of things.
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  You'd find me on YouTube back then and I would say Paul
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  Fabrics was a huge influence on me.
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  Him being, you know, he's been putting out content for a long
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  time and him being this NBA Frank conditioning coach, slash
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  training, slash skills specialist.
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  I was like, man, like this is what I want to do.
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  This is the goal. I think I even emailed him at
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  the time was like, you know, how do you even end up in this
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  position? I think he shot me back was
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  like, oh, you know, it's we're going to put out some stuff on
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  how to do it. But he's got a very
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  unconventional path, you know, being in the private sector.
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  And so I was like, OK, that's what I want to do.
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  I'll find a way to get there. And when it's time to go to
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  school, I knew I wanted to go to Baylor.
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  My dad went there. I kind of have a joke that I was
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  kind of indoctrinated to go to Baylor.
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  It's just like, you know, I was I was at I was in Waco since I
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  was a little boy going to football games and it was a good
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  fit. It was, you know, Christian
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  School, a lot of great programs. And they had an athletic
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  training program, which is sounded great.
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  I'm like, OK, I didn't know a ton about athletic training, but
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  I knew it was a route to the NBA, to college basketball.
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  And at the time, like, OK, when you're 18, sit down, pick a
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  major, you know, you don't know much.
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  So I'm OK athletic training. I know it's not necessarily what
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  Paul favorites does, but I know it's you work with athletes in a
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  very one-on-one setting and it's got training in the name.
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  So it's got to be, you know, it's got to be close to what
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  he's doing. There's athletic trainers in the
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  NBA and NFL and all that. And so I go ahead and sign up
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  for it. And then refreshment year, like
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  first couple weeks, we do like an orientation for the program
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  because there's one of those things where it was a joint
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  deals like you do three years of kind of like a pre medical
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  Health Sciences degree and then you do like your last two years
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  of actual athletic training. I remember that first
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  orientation and they sat down and it shows this video.
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  There was like this compilation like insane injuries.
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  It's like the video where the guy gets sliced to the neck and
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  hockey, the one where he survived there was, you know,
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  all these insane PCL tear, ACL tear, all kind of stuff.
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  I remember. So Andrew doctor Andrew
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  Gallucci, the program director of the time was like, you know,
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  if you don't want to do this, like kind of hop out now, like
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  This is why we go into this. It's like to save lives at the
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  end of the day. Like that's the peak of the
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  profession. He's like saving lives when
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  thanks with the fan and I remember sitting there like, oh,
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  this is not necessarily what I thought.
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  You know, I'm not exactly what I thought it was.
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  My this is cool and I'll stick with it.
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  And so finished undergrad in Health Science studies, got to
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  the grad program and 1st rotations with Baylor
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  volleyball. So again, I'm athletic training
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  something like taping ankles, rehab, that kind of stuff.
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  And got to Baylor volleyball and immediately was I met Chris
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  Lowe, who was the strength coach at the time for volleyball.
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  And I was just so impressed with what he did.
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  I'm like, oh, shoot, this is a career.
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  Like they every team here has a strength coach and they're the
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  guys were. And again, this sounds so stupid
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  in hindsight, but this is me being, you know, 19 years old
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  for sure not known what's going on.
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  Like, oh, shoot, this is I kind of felt guilty.
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  I'm just like, this is kind of what I want to do all along, you
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  know, be in the weight room actually training athletes.
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  And I had a bunch of conversations with him about his
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  background and, and basically he was big on at least our
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  conversations. He was big on injury prevention,
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  injury mitigation through training.
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  Like, OK, so you can kind of do the things that I'm going to do
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  through strength conditioning. So that seed was kind of
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  planted, like, OK, this is a career.
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  This is kind of what I want to do all along.
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  But I, you know, I've committed to this athletic training
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  program. Let me let me stick it out.
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  Then I go to Baylor soccer and Mallory Hinderlong was the
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  strength coach at the time and she's now Auburn women's soccer.
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  And same thing was like, wow, this is really cool.
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  Love what she was about of the just like, almost like the
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  culture building aspect to strength conditioning is like
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  you as an athletic trainer, you get a a really cool one-on-one
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  environment with athletes where it's like they're really open up
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  to you. But building that team culture,
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  the discipline, kind of bonding athletes together.
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  It's hard to do in the sports medicine space versus strength
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  conditioning. It's like, you know, you put
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  your your team through something really hard together and now all
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  of a sudden they're bonded through that.
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  And there's this again, you're building this culture.
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  And that was something that I saw Mallory do and it was really
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  cool again. And like the seed kept getting
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  kept growing a little bit. It was planted and it was
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  growing. And I was it was that was the
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  spring of my first year in the grad program.
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  And I was listening to I was a big fan again, big fan of Paul
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  favorites was listening to a podcast with him and Ramsey
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  Nyjam. And I was sitting there on the
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  couch. I was I was at my girlfriend of
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  the time now wife apartment sit on the couch watching this
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  podcast and I'm like, wow, this is exactly what I want to do
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  this. And it's a giant industry.
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  OK, Like I have to switch. It was like, that was the
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  podcast from like, this is everything about this I love and
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  I have to get into it. And again, I felt kind of
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  guilty. I'm like, I don't know if I
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  should quit the program now. Like I've already put in so much
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  effort to get here. And it's not an easy program by
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  any means. I mean, it's it's it's pretty
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  rigorous. It's condensed in the two years,
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  I think it probably could be like 3 years of curriculum, but
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  it's condensed into two and or more.
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  So it's six years condensed into 5 because they sprinkle some of
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  your undergraduate work into your grad school portion.
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  And it's you're, you're going to class from, you know, 8 to 1 and
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  then you're working clinicals from one to five, 7:00 PM and
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  then you're going home and studying.
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  It's just, it's a, it's a lot of work.
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  So to quit it, I was having some second thoughts, but at that
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  point I'm like, I want to be a strength coach.
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  I don't know where I'm going to go with this, but I'm going to
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  keep telling the past. And I already had a summer
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  internship lined up with Houston men's basketball on the athletic
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  training side. So I went to work for John
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  Houston. And there I was supposed to Alan
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  Bishop, who was like the king of strength conditioning.
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  I'm sure. I'm sure you're very familiar.
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  And I was just like, again, first day.
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  It was like first day. I'm there.
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  I don't even have the gear yet. I'm like in a plain T-shirt and
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  khaki shorts, like on the sideline of the baseball field.
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  And they're right. They're doing tempo runs at 6:00
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  AM music going. It was just so it was so
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  incredible. And then they go straight from
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  that to the weight room. The weight was just again, it's
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  like the most efficient, intense session I've seen at that point.
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  I'm like, no, like this if the the podcast between Ramsey and
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  Paul had confirmed it, that was like the nail in the coffin.
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  Like this is what I want to do for sure.
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  And so I spent the rest of the internship again, trying to give
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  my all on the inflation side, because I think there was a
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  there's so much to gain from that.
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  It's like knowing the anatomy, being familiar with injuries.
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  I think there's just it's still very valuable.
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  But knowing that I want to do train finishing and I wanted to
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  be respectful to John, who is my the man who took me on time and
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  not be, you know, just get there and be like, you know, I don't
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  want to just want to be a train that that's I thought that'd be
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  disrespectful. And so I just, you know, come my
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  head down, tried to get as most as I could out of the athletic
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  trains while still trying to observe and like ask Bishop
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  questions if I could here and there.
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  And so when my internship finally ended, I, I went to
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  Bishop and, and asked, you know, basically told him like, Hey,
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  you know, I really love what you're doing.
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  I want to be a strength coach. He was like, oh, really.
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  Like, you know, I did not full time and was very helpful.
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  Like we we sat down for maybe an hour and he was the one who told
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  me, you know, hey, actually stick this out.
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  Like stay in athletic training. This might make it harder off
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  the bat to get a job. But in the long run, you having
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  this dual background of sports mat and train finishing will
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  probably set you apart, especially if you want to work
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  in high level basketball. And so that was again, all I
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  need to hear. Like I'll stick it out.
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  I will kind of give my all of the program and then so after
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  that internship, I went on to do this.
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  This was a great thing about the program too.
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  I'm so grateful for is they have all these connections like the
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  the Houston connection was not something that I went out and
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  cold called to get. It was already a pre established
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  Baylor Houston connection. And so from there I went on to
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  come home for the the fall. I worked at SMU as an athletic
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  training intern with Miles Storden at the time, who's the,
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  the men's basketball AT and that was great.
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  And Miles was phenomenal. And so Miles actually worked as
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  a strength coach for a little bit early in his career.
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  And I felt like I could tell him like, Hey, you know, I'm
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  planning to go into strength conditioning and he almost kind
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  of tailored the experience nice during my internship for that.
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  So he he actually was his brother was a strength coach for
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  the Mavs for a little bit. And he, I want to say his first
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  job out of school was an intern strength coach for the Mavs.
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  And then he he hopped over to SMU and he he did the whole he
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  did like football for a little bit and moved over to
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  basketball. But so him having that
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  background kind of out seen in both worlds was super helpful.
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  And then I met Vinny Colludi and Anthony Cockrell in that same
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  time. And I told them, you know, hey,
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  this is what I want to do after school.
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  I want to be a strength coach. And they had invited me to come
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  back for a year, like, you know, we'd we'd love to have to come
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  back an intern. So I did that fall semester
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  internship, finished up, went ahead and graduated and then
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  came back to Dallas for the next year.
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  So now I was an intern for men's basketball, women's basketball,
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  volleyball, men's basketball with Vinny and women's
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  basketball and volleyball with Anthony and did that for a year.
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  It was great. It was very much like a throne
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  of the fire experience like supposed to a lot of athletes.
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  They gave me a ton of like looking back on and like man,
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  I'm so grateful for like the autonomy they gave me.
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  Like let me have pretty much full control over the program
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  for the walk ONS. Obviously you would sign off on
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  it, but so I had two guys, 2-3 ish guys who I got the program
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  for all year, which again I look back to my man for a big time
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  Division One men's basketball. It was pretty cool right out of
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  school. And then with Anthony, he gave
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  me a ton of responsibility and and you know with him working
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  two big sports at the time, it was like he might be on the road
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  with one and he would allow me to cover for the other teams out
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  again fresh out of school. That was a great experience.
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  But it being an internship, you know, I had to find a way to pay
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  the bills. I worked at Exos concurrently at
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  the same time I did an Exos, the Genpop location, it wasn't the
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  cool Plano one where you're training Kosovo players and
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  obviously you know, it was American Airlines over at DFW.
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  They have American Airlines headquarters and EXOS partnered
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  with them. And so basically I'm training,
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  I'm spending my asking me how to grade 2.
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  They would pretty much consolidate all the training
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  from 6:00 AM to like 10:00 AM. Then you might have some stuff
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  throughout the early afternoon, but it worked out to where most
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  days I could go from there straight to excess in the
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  evening. And I'm training like flight
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  attendants, pilots, people do accounting for that's cool.
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  American. Yeah, it was, it was a crazy
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  dichotomy. It's like I'm going to train
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  like 7 footers in the morning to like some of mom who again does
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  taxes for American. So I did that for a year and
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  then I went to Stanford for the next year.
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  I was looking at the landing position there where it's a it's
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  a tent position. So it's only it's only one year
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  contract. So you come in, you're an
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  assistant with the basically whatever what Perkins wanted to
• 13:33
  do. So I was assisting with men's
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  basketball with Michael Robinson, I assisted with
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  women's basketball with Victoria Saucedo and then baseball with
• 13:41
  Gunner Cederberg. And then they give you 3 sports,
• 13:45
  3 Olympic sports with some of the smaller teams like beside
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  fencing, sailing and women's lightweight rowing.
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  So those are the teams I ran, did that for a year that was
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  probably, I probably grew the most the last, you know, few
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  years within that, just working with six teams and maybe over
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  100 athletes for sure. And so many different coaches.
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  Stanford's such a cool spot because they have 16 strength
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  coaches on staff and that might not even be counting the
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  football guys. And so just such accelerated
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  learning, kind of drinking like drinking water from a fire
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  hydrant. But I grew a ton and then was
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  fortunate enough to get it being a one year position, but was
• 14:21
  looking for a new spot after the year it ended and was fortunate
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  at the landing position. ORU it just made a lot of sense.
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  It was women's basketball, volleyball, Loved what Coach
• 14:30
  Anderson was about. And then having that good
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  friends in town, I think kind of talked a little bit off the
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  podcast. So good friend from high school
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  here, lives here in Tulsa. And so he had known a guy who
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  you probably maybe know, he had known a manager for the men's
• 14:43
  teams named Shaquavis Dupree. My friend Phillip knew him.
• 14:46
  Shaquavis got me in contact with Coach Anderson and I just kind
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  of kind of was God's plan from there.
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  It it rolled out really well. It was, it was, it was kind of
• 14:54
  it was happening really fast. It was like I was on the phone.
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  So I talked, I'd apply. I saw the position.
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  So I told Philip with my hand and he, you know, gets Tulsa.
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  He had reached out to Shaquavia, Shaquavia said got my resume to
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  to Coach Anderson, say I applied on Friday, he'd got to her by
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  Saturday. By Monday I'm on the phone with
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  her and then by the next Monday I'm interviewing with admin,
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  those kind of people. And then maybe 2 weeks later had
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  landed the position. So it all happened really fast.
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  And I guess it's been super, super fortunate to be able to
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  make those jumps in the last three years.
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  But that's it's kind of how I ended up where I am here.
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  Now that's super cool, man. It's really cool to hear that
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  full story. You know, thinking about your
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  your background with athletic training and going through that
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  whole program, how do you feel that maybe impacts the lens that
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  you see training through maybe a little bit differently than
• 15:43
  people that you know, like me that just strength conditioning
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  and maybe some of the advantages of for you from from doing that
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  whole experience? Yeah, I think, I think it
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  definitely helps me. I think one in my day-to-day
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  job, it helps me working with other athletic trainers.
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  I think I'm able to kind of speak their language and I think
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  they appreciate it that we can kind of, again, the rehab is
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  still there as they still own it, but we can collaborate.
• 16:05
  Things can kind of bleed over a little bit if an athlete
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  sprained an ankle, you know, we can say, hey, you're focusing on
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  this quality with with Brie in the weight room and then you're
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  going to focus on this other quality with me in the way.
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  Or you're going to focus on one quality in the train in the AT
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  room and then another quality with me in the weight room.
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  And it just blends a little bit more seamlessly.
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  I think. I think being an athletic
• 16:27
  trainer, the knowledge of the anatomy is very helpful because
• 16:33
  when you, your whole schooling is learning anatomy by touching
• 16:38
  people, basically, you know, not to, to make a sound off, but
• 16:42
  you're, you're learning where the muscles insert, how the
• 16:45
  ligaments move. All these stress tests that you
• 16:47
  do really teach you how the ligaments connect from one bone
• 16:50
  to the next. And I think that allows me to
• 16:54
  just, it doesn't, I wouldn't say it doesn't make OK, doesn't make
• 16:57
  phenomenally better strength fields, but in small things
• 17:00
  allows you to maybe move through different ranges of motion.
• 17:02
  You just know, OK, this joint turns this way when you put in
• 17:04
  an extension, those kind of things.
• 17:06
  So like little things like say we're doing a row and I'm big on
• 17:09
  maybe moving the shoulders. So if you're at the bottom
• 17:12
  portion of the range, you're going to pronate the palms, get
• 17:14
  a giant strike in your upper back and then rotate the palm
• 17:17
  back to the neutral grip when you're coming down or when
• 17:19
  you're rolling up is what I mean to say.
• 17:22
  So things like just the anatomy. And I will say my first year or
• 17:25
  two out of school, I think I feel like training really made
• 17:28
  me look for like what's optimal? Always looking for optimal
• 17:30
  training. And I think now that I'm about 3
• 17:32
  years into the actual strength conditioning field, I'm
• 17:35
  definitely pivoting a little bit more towards the hey, like I
• 17:37
  just need to do hard things. Yeah.
• 17:39
  And there there is AI think athletic training put me more in
• 17:43
  the science based camp, which I think has a lot of value.
• 17:47
  But you can go too far in that camp where you're not building
• 17:50
  the culture, you're not making teams do anything hard.
• 17:52
  You're not athletes. I think really value hard
• 17:55
  training. I've I've heard this from a lot
• 17:58
  of athletes over the last maybe five years, like our strength
• 18:00
  coach is great, but I'm never sore or like I was in that
• 18:04
  workouts never that hard and and that strength coach might be
• 18:07
  great. And and you know, it's like
• 18:08
  don't take that athlete without a grain of salt, their opinion
• 18:11
  without a grain of salt. But I think I feel like training
• 18:14
  maybe maybe more of a science based lifter and as I've got
• 18:17
  more to the field, there's just there's just value in, hey, the
• 18:20
  training is going to be hard at this time of year and maybe it's
• 18:23
  not going to be that way all year, But that's kind of how
• 18:25
  I've I've made pivoted from that original mindset.
• 18:28
  Yeah. Now that makes a lot of sense.
• 18:29
  How, how have you been trying to find that balance where OK it we
• 18:34
  are going to push really hard these certain times, but still
• 18:36
  within a system that's like smart intelligent training, but
• 18:39
  kind of still finding a way to mesh both of those two things
• 18:42
  together. Yeah, I think it's definitely
• 18:44
  difficult. For example, with, with a
• 18:46
  volleyball office and we're running right now, it's, it's
• 18:48
  pretty hard because there's, there's a time and place we are,
• 18:51
  we're not playing the games. We have a couple spring
• 18:53
  scrimmages, the end of March, early April and that's about it.
• 18:58
  And so you and you're, you're only with the 8 hour NCAA
• 19:01
  practice and weight room window. It's, it's just not that it's
• 19:05
  not that easy to push people into overtraining.
• 19:09
  And so I thought because we're an 8 hour window, I can really
• 19:11
  squeeze out those four hours and make them extremely hard versus
• 19:13
  when you're in and that's in the offseason versus when you're in
• 19:16
  the end season, Especially when I have two sports like
• 19:19
  volleyball and basketball where jumping is is so prevalent that
• 19:23
  I think the tendons just take such a big beating from the
• 19:26
  sport itself. So the weight room might look a
• 19:29
  little bit it's definitely going to be less intense from a
• 19:31
  jumping a plyometric standpoint. And then I might be
• 19:33
  complimenting things that they're doing on the court by,
• 19:37
  you know, so if you're doing a ton of applying measure on the
• 19:38
  court, we're going to do some more heavy, slow work at a
• 19:40
  reasonable volume in the weight room.
• 19:42
  So I think it's just it's what time of year is it?
• 19:45
  What kind of team do you have? I think like with volleyball,
• 19:48
  for example, you know, I'll be honest, we we're trying to turn
• 19:51
  this program around. We're trying to create greatness
• 19:54
  and I've been trying to, you know, instill in these young
• 19:56
  women like this is going to be the roster to turn the narrative
• 20:00
  on ORU volleyball. We're going to create a winning
• 20:02
  season. We're going to create a winning
• 20:03
  culture. And so in that case, I think
• 20:05
  almost hard training also can help a little more from a a
• 20:08
  psychological aspect. I think that's something early
• 20:10
  on the first year or so, I was kind of I wasn't a big fan of
• 20:14
  whole mental toughness thing. I was like, you either have it
• 20:16
  or you don't. I almost got that from my own
• 20:19
  experience where I was like. As a basketball player, I was
• 20:22
  someone who could go really hard in the weight room and, and
• 20:24
  drills and conditioning drills. But then I maybe was a softer
• 20:27
  player on the court and I had other guys who, or other other
• 20:31
  teammates who maybe were kind of coasted and some of those mental
• 20:34
  toughness style drills, but they were dogs on the court.
• 20:36
  So I, I had come to the conclusion that you just either
• 20:39
  have it or you don't. And I don't think that's so
• 20:41
  true. I think I think it can be
• 20:43
  developed and if anything, our training done with done with any
• 20:47
  reason will not only get you probably better results again,
• 20:51
  done with with with reason and appropriate context, but the
• 20:55
  builds team chemistry. I think if you just if your
• 20:57
  whole team is always going to the Super optimal kind of easy
• 21:01
  movement based list all the time, then you're not really
• 21:05
  bonded through anything versus Hey, we went to a really tough
• 21:08
  offseating with Jacob and now we have one that we have inside
• 21:11
  jokes among the team because of that.
• 21:14
  We went to something together. Now it's I think just builds
• 21:17
  team chemistry a little better than always being in that
• 21:20
  science based realm. For sure.
• 21:22
  Yeah, You know, I I kind of feel the same way about my first
• 21:25
  couple years where I was like, I'm trying to.
• 21:27
  I want them always to be, you know, have great readiness and,
• 21:30
  you know, be feeling great and be ready to go.
• 21:33
  And, you know, fully agree with a lot of points you're making
• 21:35
  too. And also like one thing I
• 21:36
  started to feel too, it's like, OK, if you know, let's say with
• 21:40
  basketball, if in the summer and fall, like they're, you know,
• 21:45
  always feeling pretty good, it's harder to make them then feel
• 21:48
  good throughout the duration of a long season.
• 21:50
  Because like, if we build this base of like doing hard things
• 21:54
  and getting adjusted to volume and an intensity there and you
• 21:59
  know, they build that stress and you know, maybe, you know, maybe
• 22:02
  they are beat up a little bit, but now we have something to
• 22:04
  actually pull back from in season.
• 22:06
  And now they've built up a level of durability and adaptations,
• 22:10
  stressed that now they they can handle this long season versus
• 22:13
  we felt so good. And you know, the summer is so
• 22:16
  good in the fall, really good in the season.
• 22:18
  But now, like, our bodies are kind of breaking down as the
• 22:21
  season goes on and on. Yeah, I know 100%.
• 22:23
  And I think it's, you know, if we want to sell strength
• 22:25
  coaches, we love selling injury mitigation, durability in
• 22:30
  interviews. I think it's like something, you
• 22:32
  know, you bring up with an administrator or coach, but then
• 22:34
  when injuries happen, we also don't want to take credit.
• 22:37
  I'm not saying injuries are nuanced and there's a lot there,
• 22:42
  but I think we should be training out, almost exposing
• 22:46
  them to the Max amount of stress they commit up that a body can
• 22:49
  handle. And that way you are physically
• 22:51
  prepared versus I think, and you probably know this better than
• 22:55
  me, but basketball is a sport that's very big on feeling good
• 22:59
  readiness, kind of like year round, almost like soreness is
• 23:01
  almost a cuss word sometimes. I that's why I tried to instill
• 23:06
  in this, this women's basketball team this past year was like,
• 23:08
  just trust the process. Like summer, you're, you're
• 23:10
  going to feel like crap Preseason, you're still going to
• 23:12
  feel like crap. Like I'll I will eventually turn
• 23:13
  the dial down and it will get better.
• 23:16
  And it's just like if you can kind of look at it full picture,
• 23:18
  like there's a there's a six month period to go hard, the six
• 23:21
  month period to train smart. You're never you're probably
• 23:23
  never not you're never going easy necessarily.
• 23:25
  But just getting asked this to bind that because yeah, we we're
• 23:27
  probably setting up to fail if it's just game level readiness
• 23:31
  year round. Yeah, I remember, I don't know
• 23:34
  if you know the name Josh Bonnetul.
• 23:36
  He's kind of out of collegius training this team now, but he
• 23:40
  was for a while. He was the strength coach for
• 23:42
  men's basketball at Purdue for a number of years and they're
• 23:45
  really, really good. And he and he had got into a
• 23:48
  real big like kind of Sprint based program.
• 23:50
  And I remember I was talking to one time and, and he was talking
• 23:53
  about maybe some point in the summer, the fall, I think.
• 23:55
  And he's like if, like if we start to get a couple like, you
• 24:00
  know, a strain or a tweak kind of here and there, like, like
• 24:04
  I'm good with that because I know that we're kind of pushing
• 24:06
  the limits to the spot. I need to push kind of in the
• 24:09
  same life. Like if like, like we got it.
• 24:10
  We got it. We got to let the body adapt.
• 24:12
  And sometimes there's going to be things there, but we we have
• 24:14
  to, you know, in, in these high performance takes and we got to
• 24:17
  push it sometimes. Yeah.
• 24:18
  A. 100% it's like that's what you're here for.
• 24:20
  It's I think we can fall into the Gray zone where it's like
• 24:22
  I'm here to manage load, but with all the constraints around
• 24:26
  my job, I don't really get to manage load the way I made maybe
• 24:30
  think optimal. And I'm also here to create, you
• 24:35
  know, robust athletes. But then if I'm always kind of
• 24:37
  got that caution tape on, then I'm not really creating the most
• 24:40
  robust athlete possible. So I'm in this, I'm just doing
• 24:42
  everything at a OK level. Yeah.
• 24:44
  And then expecting great results.
• 24:46
  It's. Yeah.
• 24:47
  So as you know, as you kind of mentioned that point with
• 24:50
  managing load and obviously usually the most Low's going to
• 24:53
  come from the sport in college athletics, especially during
• 24:56
  that 20 hour period. I know I've seen you put out
• 24:58
  some stuff with Daniel above's kind of quadrant system and and
• 25:01
  then his frameworks there. Are you with either of the
• 25:05
  Staffs you're with, are you having any influence on kind of
• 25:07
  practice planning and kind of weekly planning at all with what
• 25:10
  those days look like? And then kind of being able to
• 25:12
  match and consolidate stress within what you're doing in the
• 25:14
  weight room? Or is it more so they're doing
• 25:17
  what they're doing and you're kind of adapting and adjusting
• 25:19
  based off what's happening in the in the sport?
• 25:22
  Yeah, yeah. So with with volleyball, I was
• 25:25
  really fortunate Coach Albright, I I came to him when we first my
• 25:29
  first got on campus and pitched the quadrant system to him.
• 25:32
  He's a big fan. He's like this makes a lot of
• 25:34
  sense. Really like it.
• 25:35
  I'm I'm a huge fan of. I think it's one of the things
• 25:37
  where the I don't see a lot of teams really implementing it, at
• 25:42
  least in in basketball. And I I had this theory that the
• 25:45
  first team to really go all in is going to is going to make a
• 25:49
  difference. I think, I think we're getting
• 25:50
  to the point in college basketball where especially at
• 25:54
  the power for level where nutrition's high, you know, the
• 25:59
  nutrition budgets are insane. Everyone has the equipment they
• 26:02
  want it almost like you're you're, you're starting to see
• 26:04
  this neutralization where, oh, OK, so Houston has this, so
• 26:06
  we're going to get that. But Houston has this Kaiser
• 26:08
  machine. So we're going to get it so that
• 26:10
  the the facilities are starting to equalize.
• 26:12
  Nutrition starting to equalize using something like a quadrant
• 26:15
  system could be the secret sauce of actually keeping athletes
• 26:18
  fresh and ready in the season and mitigating some of those
• 26:21
  injuries. So that was my big pitch to
• 26:24
  Coach Albright and who's on board.
• 26:26
  And so with volleyball, you know, I got here to RU in mid
• 26:29
  June and volleyball picked up in late July, so and they play in
• 26:33
  August. So it's a pretty quick turn
• 26:34
  around. So we didn't have a ton of
• 26:35
  offseason training, but we hit the ground running with the
• 26:38
  quadrant system pretty much. And yeah, we would just we would
• 26:41
  break it out where game we would even lift on game days.
• 26:43
  I think something I would I'll go back to that point, but I
• 26:46
  might change that next year. But it would be.
• 26:48
  So hey, we got to play Thursday, Saturday, then Monday is going
• 26:51
  to be our hardest practice on the court.
• 26:53
  So we're thinking we're keeping a long in duration and high in
• 26:57
  intensity. I'll tell no one like this needs
• 26:58
  to be our most game like practice and then we're after
• 27:02
  practice we're going to hit the weight room again.
• 27:04
  Strength lift, think speeds in the .5 to .65 range.
• 27:09
  If we're talking about velocity based training, and that's where
• 27:13
  I would hit all my big compounds like a split squat of squat,
• 27:15
  chin up, those kind of things that hinge.
• 27:16
  And then Tuesday would be we, we would call it QQ, 2 day, so long
• 27:20
  duration, low intensity, some more technical work, kill
• 27:24
  drills, limited live play. And then they'll come in the
• 27:26
  weight room afterwards and hit what I'll call a tissue health
• 27:29
  lift, 30 minutes. Think all accessories.
• 27:32
  So calf raises, core work, tib work, shoulder health work,
• 27:35
  especially volleyball. Again, filling in kind of those
• 27:37
  gaps from from the first day. And then Wednesday, what we did
• 27:40
  this year was it was off from the weight room, but on court it
• 27:44
  was one hour ish pence game like, but not not super long
• 27:49
  like Monday and Thursday you're playing.
• 27:51
  We would do a pregame primer lift on Thursday and Saturday.
• 27:56
  And then Friday would be pure recovery Q1 day and the Saturday
• 27:59
  would be at Q4 again, high intensity, high volume.
• 28:01
  And what I'll probably change next year is I think move, I
• 28:06
  think the pregame primer lift could be it was basically AQ3
• 28:10
  lift. So you're not because we weren't
• 28:12
  lifting after the game. So this is something I came in
• 28:14
  and I wanted to, you know, come, come in guns a blazing.
• 28:16
  I want to introduce postgame lifts with every team I'm
• 28:19
  working for. And then you run to compliance.
• 28:21
  It's just how how how the game works.
• 28:23
  And so basically the rule is, you know, you can't lift anybody
• 28:27
  after 9:00 PM. It's got to be completely
• 28:29
  voluntary. And then technically, if it's
• 28:32
  completely voluntary, I think like you really can't run the
• 28:34
  session. You're just there to supervise.
• 28:35
  And so it came to the point was like just too messy.
• 28:38
  It's not going to work. So I'm like, at the time, let's
• 28:40
  just do the pregame primer lift. But I think next year what we'll
• 28:42
  do is just move that same idea and just put it on Wednesday.
• 28:45
  And that's basically what I did with basketballs.
• 28:48
  And I thought we saw pretty good stress, stress consolidation in
• 28:52
  terms of how the girls are feeling.
• 28:53
  I think we can definitely do a, we can definitely improve on
• 28:56
  objectify, you know, finding objective ways to measure that.
• 28:58
  Something I want to do next year is have them jump on court on
• 29:02
  the force plate, just roll the force plates over there and that
• 29:04
  will give me what we would do. We would jump day of in the
• 29:09
  weight room, but I think just taking that primer lift out
• 29:11
  because again, the whole idea behind the Q4 lift is making it
• 29:15
  high intensity. It's making it high intensity,
• 29:18
  high volume because you're already having a high identity
• 29:20
  volume. So if I'm doing it before the
• 29:21
  game, I can't do that, especially with with high men
• 29:23
  and athletes. And so that's why I think what
• 29:25
  I'll do next year is just put that primer lift on Wednesday
• 29:28
  day before game and it's having them jump on the force plates an
• 29:31
  hour, hour or less before the match starts.
• 29:34
  Now where I can get more consistent data of, OK, this is
• 29:37
  how we ran the week. Are the jump numbers improving
• 29:39
  the other year or at least maintaining for what they were
• 29:41
  in the preseason? So volleyball was great in terms
• 29:43
  of collaborating there. And I think we just, we can
• 29:46
  tweak that up a little bit more this year.
• 29:48
  And then a basketball me coming into a more established system
• 29:51
  with basketball, they made it. We didn't we didn't put it to a
• 29:53
  tee like that. I would say that the staff I
• 29:56
  came into they've been doing for four years and I pitched it to
• 29:58
  them. It's not like they weren't
• 29:59
  receptive, but we I think they have already have a pretty good
• 30:03
  intuitive system how to consolidate stress.
• 30:05
  I would say Coach Anderson has a great intuitive eye on when to
• 30:09
  pull back and when to go harder. She's not one of those coaches
• 30:11
  where it's like, well, we'll, you know, while we're running
• 30:13
  into the ground every week. And so with basketball, it was
• 30:18
  more we're still using it, but knowing that we can't do post
• 30:21
  game lifts, we're just doing a modified version where I'm
• 30:24
  having to basically read and react.
• 30:26
  So it's like Monday practice will be Q4 in my mind and giving
• 30:30
  most times first out from the game we're playing on that
• 30:31
  Thursday, Saturday conference schedule.
• 30:33
  So post practice we're coming in and we're hitting a strength
• 30:37
  lifts, same idea. Tuesday tissue health lift won't
• 30:40
  be too redundant here. And then Wednesday that primer
• 30:42
  lift before the game, same thing we did.
• 30:44
  So with basketball, I did force play jumps on the Wednesday
• 30:47
  primer lift. Next year I'll probably do them
• 30:49
  on court. I think it's just a good measure
• 30:51
  of like, it's great to know well where you, how you felt day
• 30:54
  before the game, before that practice, but I think it's even
• 30:57
  better to know how you feel right before your step on the
• 30:59
  court. That was something we did SMU
• 31:00
  with with Vinny was pregame force play, jumping.
• 31:04
  It's takes a little bit extra effort to roll them over there,
• 31:06
  but I think it's probably worth it.
• 31:08
  Yeah, Yeah. No, I couple, couple points when
• 31:11
  I got off of that, I guess 11 quick question.
• 31:13
  So when you're going to do those pregame force play jumps, are
• 31:15
  you going to tell them the number?
• 31:17
  That's a great question because you know, it's like if it's bad,
• 31:19
  yeah, you can psych them out. I would say in my experience at
• 31:23
  SMU, the numbers were always insane.
• 31:25
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was, you know, the pre AME
• 31:27
  adrenaline guys are throwing down windmill dunks and and they
• 31:30
  come over, hey, come over, get a quick jump up 7, you know, just
• 31:33
  insane numbers. And I think I will say I think
• 31:36
  with the with the roster we had this past year, if I told him a
• 31:39
  down number, it might throw him off.
• 31:41
  And now, you know, you're not you're not playing into someone
• 31:43
  having an off night. I think probably not.
• 31:46
  I think probably best bet is just hey, just come over here
• 31:48
  and jump real quick. Give me two jumps, hop back in
• 31:50
  the drill and then just get that data to coach.
• 31:54
  Maybe if it's a huge PR maybe let them know, but might have a
• 31:57
  standard of we don't want to talk about it.
• 31:59
  Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely tricky is like you're saying,
• 32:01
  like, you know, maybe it could help them mentally if they get
• 32:03
  APR, but you definitely don't want to do anything to throw
• 32:06
  them off at all now. Yeah and like you're talking
• 32:09
  about the post game lifts like where it's like OK, you know,
• 32:11
  just like during the quads is like OK, games are most intense
• 32:14
  thing like let's put the, you know, consolidate, let's get the
• 32:16
  lift afterward. Like when you run into the
• 32:18
  actual logistics, it's it's it's hard because I remember when I
• 32:21
  was at Weber State, we actually, if you didn't play this amount
• 32:24
  of minutes, you've got to do something after the game and we
• 32:27
  would do that and made I've been in line with compliance
• 32:29
  potentially, I don't know, hopefully they're not listening.
• 32:33
  You know, some nights it was like if it was like a loss or
• 32:36
  like a guy doesn't get to play at all and then like they got to
• 32:38
  do it then some, some of them would be great for the other.
• 32:41
  Some of the guys, it's like, Oh my God, I do not want to be
• 32:43
  here. And it's like they're trying to
• 32:44
  see their family sometimes, you know, I don't want to be there
• 32:46
  till 10:00, whatever. It's hard.
• 32:49
  It's hard. And that's.
• 32:49
  Logistically, it's so hard. I mean, we we did, we did the
• 32:52
  past two places I was at again under that that voluntary
• 32:55
  standpoint and it yeah, guys can take contact them and say no and
• 32:58
  then see how your game ends. You're waiting for guys to
• 33:01
  finish up the family. Some guys talk to the media.
• 33:03
  Yeah, guys in the locker room, you know, yeah, it's just.
• 33:05
  It's so it's like if you want to have a team lift, it gets really
• 33:08
  hard to end up having guys come in kind of one on ones.
• 33:11
  Yeah, if you if you lost even. Yeah, even worse.
• 33:14
  Yeah, but no, that that's really cool how you broke down that
• 33:17
  week when I was actually over you.
• 33:18
  Like I would talk with the head, our head coach a lot about what
• 33:22
  we're doing in practice, not necessarily exactly from the
• 33:26
  quadrant system view, but more So it's like, OK, this how long
• 33:28
  we want to go maybe more half court versus full court kind of
• 33:31
  live non live type of stuff. But then I would I actually
• 33:33
  operate on a very, very similar schedule as you where Monday we
• 33:36
  would hit our her main strength lift.
• 33:39
  Tuesday was more of a quadrant 2 day.
• 33:41
  We would do the Wednesday more of our quadrant 3 primer day on
• 33:45
  the Wednesday only only the low minute players I'd have lift on
• 33:49
  the game days Thursday and Saturday and then Friday we do
• 33:52
  recovery. And then also I I really like I
• 33:54
  started doing this in conference play between those Thursdays.
• 33:57
  Saturdays we do like a do like a 1 by 10 to 1 by 15 of a bunch of
• 34:02
  different things like get on the Kaiser and do some like
• 34:05
  abduction, adduction, hip stuff, do some like feet elevated push
• 34:09
  up some hamstring curls, like the just kind of low intensity
• 34:12
  stuff like that. And just like the one by 15, one
• 34:15
  by 20 or 10 type thing. And I really like that kind of
• 34:19
  between those two days, they're kind of just regenerating them a
• 34:21
  little bit. But no, that's cool how we kind
• 34:24
  of lined up there pretty good as we talked about both working
• 34:28
  with basketball, working with volleyball for you, you know,
• 34:31
  it's kind of interesting in the in the strength coach position
• 34:34
  where most people are just focused on this one program, but
• 34:37
  you're heavily involved in with two Staffs, two programs.
• 34:41
  How do you try and balance like being great for each one of
• 34:44
  those? And obviously sometimes there
• 34:45
  are conflicting schedules, conflicting travel and all that,
• 34:48
  but still trying to set things up where you can be the best
• 34:52
  coach and, and for those Staffs and for those players.
• 34:54
  It's hard and it's a great question.
• 34:56
  I think, you know, I'll talk to other strengthens on the road.
• 34:58
  And what sports do you have on basketball?
• 35:01
  Only two. That's great, you know.
• 35:02
  Yeah, on paper it is great, especially when I came from my
• 35:05
  last spot where I was working six teams.
• 35:07
  Yeah. But if you want to do a great
• 35:09
  job with two teams, it becomes pretty difficult.
• 35:12
  And so I think it's just become, I mean, one, just acknowledging
• 35:17
  that you're going to have heavy seasons like with this past
• 35:20
  where we crossed over from January to March, where it was
• 35:23
  until now, basically where it was women's basketball
• 35:26
  conference play and then volleyball offseason days, you
• 35:28
  know, days were long. It's just kind of par, par for
• 35:31
  the course. I think you say acknowledging
• 35:32
  that, acknowledging that if you want to do a great job, you can
• 35:35
  take a sacrifice. And I've tried to get in the
• 35:37
  mindset lately of not worrying too much about sustainability.
• 35:41
  I think that's something just, you know, our, our generation's
• 35:44
  big on is like work life balance.
• 35:46
  And I think for good reason. I think maybe the, you know, you
• 35:48
  should work 100 hours and get paid 30K mentality should die.
• 35:53
  Like, I don't think it's good for depression, not good for
• 35:55
  anybody. But I do think, you know, I'm my
• 35:58
  wife and I don't have any kids yet and playing time with my
• 36:01
  hands. So it's got I, I, I, I'm in the
• 36:02
  mind. So I can commit to this for, for
• 36:04
  now. You know, it, it may be a long
• 36:06
  days and a lot of planning and and physical mental energy at
• 36:10
  the time, but then just committing to the season you're
• 36:12
  in and knowing that I'm just going to do this till I can't.
• 36:15
  I think it's that that mentality served me better than like fight
• 36:18
  constantly fighting like I shouldn't be working this much
• 36:20
  or I shouldn't find ways to scale down.
• 36:22
  And so that that's been a big thing for me lately.
• 36:24
  And then also just trying to almost just just know where
• 36:27
  you're at in the year, especially with our job being I
• 36:30
  think the main focus being the offseason, for example, like
• 36:32
  just giving volleyball a lot of attention in this offseason,
• 36:35
  trying to make the biggest gains while knowing that with
• 36:37
  volleyball I'm having 4 hour plus ish lifts a week right now.
• 36:41
  And versus when wins basketball was in season, it was 3 30 to 40
• 36:46
  minute lists. You know, so, so just you're
• 36:47
  realizing that it's never going to be or it's rarely going to be
• 36:50
  full out strength coach demands on both ends.
• 36:53
  Whereas, you know, my, my strength coach demands are
• 36:55
  pretty high on volleyball right now.
• 36:56
  With basketball, it's more, you know, it's shorter lists, it's
• 37:00
  helping out with practice, it's helping out with nutrition and
• 37:02
  it's it's talking to coach about how we can maybe feel fresher
• 37:05
  for the big game coming up. Just a different kind of demand,
• 37:08
  I think. And so like having a different
• 37:10
  stimulus helps a little bit. And I think just making, I'm
• 37:13
  really big on trying to make teams feel like you're their
• 37:15
  only guy. I think, I think that goes a
• 37:17
  long way. I think being in the last couple
• 37:19
  spots where I did work on multiple teams, little things
• 37:22
  like try to never have a volleyball shirt on while I'm
• 37:25
  working women's basketball and vice versa.
• 37:27
  And like when I was at Stanford, I had fencing, rowing and
• 37:32
  sailing. I think it, it could be really
• 37:34
  easy to be like big timing those teams that I got to go work with
• 37:36
  basketball, but no, like never showing up without a fencing,
• 37:39
  rowing or sailing shirt on and making them feel like they're
• 37:41
  the best in the world. You know, for those, those 3 to
• 37:43
  4, two to four sessions we have together a week.
• 37:45
  I think just that goes a long way for bias.
• 37:47
  I think athlete starts to pick up on that when you have
• 37:49
  multiple teams. And then no, you're not the
• 37:50
  priority. I'm not saying it's always, I'm
• 37:53
  not saying it's necessary strength coach's fault.
• 37:54
  There usually is one team might have more demand on you, but I
• 37:57
  think to the best of your ability, when you're with that
• 37:59
  team, being present, making them feel like their main priority
• 38:02
  will just go a long way and create a buy in and create a
• 38:06
  better culture, create a better report of those athletes.
• 38:08
  It's always difficult to do, but those are some of the things
• 38:10
  that I try to implement to best my ability.
• 38:13
  Yeah, no, those are some really great points, Jacob.
• 38:15
  You know, like you talk about the sustainability aspect and I
• 38:19
  I think that I think that's a, a huge point you made where like,
• 38:22
  you know, you've talked about Coach Bishop earlier and in the
• 38:25
  book I had and he had a quote. I don't read the exact quote,
• 38:28
  but it was basically advice for like people early in their
• 38:31
  career, like, you know, trying to get in this profession is
• 38:33
  like you, this is never a better time.
• 38:36
  Were you able to commit more, have less responsibility, like
• 38:39
  to just pour everything into this?
• 38:40
  And I think like when you do that for a period of time
• 38:44
  unsustainably, that is going to set you up for better
• 38:48
  sustainability. In the future.
• 38:50
  Right. If you try and have
• 38:51
  sustainability from the beginning, you're probably not
• 38:53
  going to become good enough or get enough connections or enough
• 38:56
  experience to actually get to a point where you can make a good
• 39:00
  living and have a good career and have better, you know,
• 39:03
  balance in the in the future. No, 100% when I was at SMUI was
• 39:09
  doing, I mentioned earlier, working, it'd be early mornings,
• 39:14
  SMU till the mid afternoon and then I'll go to excess and train
• 39:17
  until maybe 9:00 or 10:00 PM. And yeah, wasn't good for my
• 39:21
  physical mental health, my marriage even.
• 39:25
  But I think it really set me up to then going to Stanford.
• 39:27
  It's just, it's like every step is kind of, and every step has
• 39:30
  become a little more sustainable.
• 39:31
  Like having two jobs was not sustainable.
• 39:33
  But luckily, like my wife is committed to the process, like
• 39:37
  held down. And then we got to one job and
• 39:39
  one job with a lot of teams was maybe not sustainable for
• 39:42
  forever, but it was a little more stable in the previous
• 39:44
  step. And now I have one job with two
• 39:46
  teams and it just, it just keeps getting a little bit like you're
• 39:48
  saying like every step of the way gets a little bit more
• 39:51
  sustainable and manageable and you kind of have to commit.
• 39:54
  It's just, it's just the I look at like the sunshine tax of our
• 39:57
  profession. So people in California joke to
• 39:59
  like, you know, super expensive to live there.
• 40:01
  Taxes are high. It's high, but it's a beautiful
• 40:04
  state, you know, being there for years.
• 40:06
  It's a state that's great for your mental health from a, a
• 40:08
  nature standpoint, great weather, islands, beach, all
• 40:10
  that kind of stuff. And I look at strength
• 40:12
  conditioning as that. It's like, it's, it's a
• 40:14
  phenomenal job. Like I'm, I never tried to pitch
• 40:16
  it as like, oh, like, woe is me. How to be a strength coach.
• 40:18
  It's like hell, like this is a privilege.
• 40:20
  You know, it's like I get up and I, I train athletes in a nice
• 40:22
  weight room and I get to have an input on the kind of food they
• 40:26
  eat and I watch and help out with child's games for a living.
• 40:30
  You know, it's just like at the end of the day, it's like take a
• 40:32
  step back and look at the perspective.
• 40:34
  It's it's pretty, it's a pretty cool job and arguably I think
• 40:37
  one of the best in the world. And that's why I went into this.
• 40:39
  And so if the sunshine tax of that is those early years are
• 40:43
  going to be really hard and very time consuming, I think it's
• 40:46
  still well worth it. Yeah.
• 40:48
  I love it. I love it.
• 40:49
  You know, you mentioned you've mentioned nutrition and, and
• 40:51
  helping with with food choice a little bit there and I've seen
• 40:54
  it, you know, a couple of videos and you're making smoothies, all
• 40:56
  that stuff. I can't lie, that's making
• 40:59
  smoothies and and cooking breakfast and electrolytes in
• 41:02
  college and doing all that every day.
• 41:04
  That's something I don't miss having to do every day.
• 41:06
  But how you know, being at a mid major like Oral Roberts, you
• 41:10
  know, you talked before about power force where you know the
• 41:12
  nutrition at the highest level kind of standardized.
• 41:14
  But being on a mid major where there's maybe not as much
• 41:16
  resources, how do you try and go above and beyond to create as
• 41:22
  good an experience and you know, X Factor of nutrition, freer
• 41:26
  teams and athletes as possible and with the resources you do
• 41:28
  have? But before the end of this
• 41:30
  interview, I need to hear more about the breakfast stories
• 41:33
  because I don't know if he knows you're famous for that, really.
• 41:36
  There's the I think there's a Blackstone back.
• 41:38
  There should still be up in that.
• 41:39
  That's yours, right? That's what we got.
• 41:41
  OK, Yeah, they bring that up all the time.
• 41:43
  Like, yeah, John Bloom used to. He would be out there cooking
• 41:45
  eggs and bacon. I'm like, man, that's another
• 41:47
  level of commitment that is as next level.
• 41:49
  But so being at the midnight two major level, I, I think it's
• 41:52
  that much more important because like in the power 4 level, it's
• 41:56
  all kind of standardized. They ought to have these
• 41:58
  nutrition departments and it's all taken care of.
• 42:00
  It's not that way at the mid major level.
• 42:02
  So I think it's, it's a chance to separate yourself.
• 42:04
  It's I tell the the athletes I work with at ORU all the times
• 42:08
  like you're, I always say it's to discourage them.
• 42:10
  I'm like, you're already at a disadvantage.
• 42:11
  You're playing teams that are probably just naturally bigger,
• 42:14
  faster, stronger than you have more resources.
• 42:17
  They just walk out of practice and have a freaking buffet of,
• 42:20
  you know, salmon and rice and veggies and fruit, you know,
• 42:23
  every day you're already at a dispatch.
• 42:26
  So you cannot afford to widen the gap by not taking nutrition
• 42:29
  seriously. I look at it like it's just one
• 42:31
  of the controllables. We can try to do the best we can
• 42:34
  on first thing because mine is locker room nutrition.
• 42:37
  It's not. I've never meant to replace
• 42:38
  meals that we were given a a budget to go.
• 42:41
  I'm sure as you know, we're given a budget to go to Costco.
• 42:43
  And I will say on the women's side it's not bad because women
• 42:47
  don't eat as much food as men. I hear on the men's side it's
• 42:49
  probably harder to to maintain because guys just pound food
• 42:53
  grocery. Bags and take it all home too.
• 42:55
  Right, right. Yeah, I got the sack, the cloth
• 42:58
  sack and all that. So just trying to one create an
• 43:01
  environment where healthy food's just kind of standard.
• 43:04
  I know like Anthony talked about this a little bit when when
• 43:06
  y'all spoke big on that as well. Like if, if your whole locker
• 43:10
  room is full of like Rice Krispies and some like Rice
• 43:14
  Krispies and, and candy, you know, some something that I've
• 43:17
  seen before, which is kind of crazy.
• 43:19
  I think it just creates a culture of like, oh, nutrition
• 43:21
  doesn't really matter, especially in basketball where
• 43:24
  you will have a lot of people telling them like, it doesn't
• 43:27
  matter because if people look at it in in calories in calories
• 43:29
  out, you can do whatever you want.
• 43:32
  You know, you're going to burn it off.
• 43:32
  It's like there's there's some truth in that.
• 43:34
  I'm not saying especially basketball players need to eat
• 43:37
  super clean at every meal. I think there is some value if
• 43:40
  not just getting extra calories, but it can't be the standard.
• 43:43
  That can't be our foundation. I think that if your foundation
• 43:46
  is fast food, candy, processed sugars refined, you know,
• 43:51
  everything is packaged processed crap.
• 43:53
  I think you're you're setting yourself up to being kind of an
• 43:55
  inflamed state. And not only that, but I'm
• 43:59
  trying to set you up for a lifetime of health.
• 44:02
  Not just I think it's something we feel just can really bring
• 44:07
  value or an area of strengthen us to really bring value to is
• 44:10
  creating a long term habits. I can look back to college.
• 44:13
  My athletes can look back to college and think, oh, I'm going
• 44:16
  to do this because Jacob or John taught me how to eat this way.
• 44:19
  And I think that's something that's really cool.
• 44:20
  So in our locker room, we try to have plenty of protein sources,
• 44:25
  I think like yogurt drinks, cleaner protein shakes, grilled
• 44:29
  chicken cleaner meat sticks, those kind of things, plenty of
• 44:32
  carbs, lots of fruit, lots of, again, try to find things that
• 44:37
  you would maybe find like a Whole Foods, like like a that's
• 44:39
  it bar versus just buying gushers or, you know, things
• 44:44
  like that, keeping as close to Whole Foods as possible.
• 44:47
  I think it's very important. And then buying what's on sale,
• 44:51
  honestly at the mid major level. So what's in our locker room
• 44:53
  changes pretty frequently. That sounds simple, but it, it,
• 44:56
  it's been pretty helpful. It's like, OK, if, if these
• 44:59
  chopsticks are $5 off for now, we're getting that instead of
• 45:01
  the other one. And that stretches your budget
• 45:04
  quite a bit. So the locker room is huge.
• 45:06
  And then as you, you mentioned the post training smoothies, try
• 45:09
  to do that in the offseason. It's an everyday thing.
• 45:12
  You're not leaving the facility without getting it in season.
• 45:14
  It's sprinkled a little bit more, maybe once or twice a week
• 45:17
  kind of thing. And I look at that as just
• 45:19
  especially with women's athletes, getting them to eat 3
• 45:22
  meals a day can be a challenge times.
• 45:24
  You know, you've all heard, heard the joke of like the girl
• 45:26
  dinner versus the boy dinner. It's like they'll eat like 1
• 45:28
  bowl of Mac and cheese and call it a day And like that's their
• 45:31
  only meal for the day. I encourage them to get 3 meals
• 45:33
  a day. Doesn't always happen.
• 45:34
  So I look at the smoothie as a supplement to that.
• 45:37
  It'd be great if you got three meals and the smoothie, but
• 45:40
  that's another way to get a great protein source, some carbs
• 45:44
  in an easy, convenient package you can just take and go.
• 45:47
  And they're like, I try to make them something that they enjoy.
• 45:51
  And then when it comes to supplements, I think at the mid
• 45:56
  major level, you have to find your big rocks.
• 45:59
  Like what's going to be the most biggest bang for your buck
• 46:02
  versus at a powerful level I've seen it's like it's like
• 46:04
  whatever you want. Again, I can't speak for every
• 46:06
  school, but some of the places I've been, SMU and Stanford,
• 46:08
  it's kind of like whatever you want goes.
• 46:10
  And when it comes to bio nutritional products.
• 46:13
  So with us being the mid major level, things like Omega threes
• 46:17
  I think are very valuable in reducing soreness.
• 46:20
  Vitamin D super cheap and I have two indoor sports, so they're
• 46:24
  not getting a lot of sunlight most of the year proved
• 46:26
  everyone's deficient vitamin D and it's good for your your bone
• 46:30
  health, your immune function pre a team is 1.
• 46:32
  We can't give them technically. So I just educate them on the
• 46:35
  benefits and then encourage them to to buy if they have the
• 46:38
  funds. And, and most athletes once that
• 46:40
  once they find out the benefits, especially in basketball and
• 46:43
  volleyball are like, OK, I'll do it like, OK, it improves your
• 46:45
  ability to repeatedly jump and Sprint.
• 46:48
  What does that sound like? Oh, basketball or volleyball?
• 46:49
  OK, I'll go ahead and get it. And then we'll also do some
• 46:53
  electrolytes. We'll do either sports drinks or
• 46:57
  sports drinks on the home games to replace them like glucose and
• 47:00
  electrolytes and then things like liquid IV on the road.
• 47:02
  But don't really want to overdo it there.
• 47:04
  I know there's there's some science coming out about how you
• 47:06
  can, you can get a lot of electrolytes from food and if
• 47:09
  you can actually overdo it by taking all these powders because
• 47:13
  of the the vitamin content. Yeah, no, man, that was, that
• 47:16
  was an awesome breakdown. Really, really good.
• 47:18
  We we've talked a little bit about force plates with, you
• 47:21
  know, doing the pregame jumps a little bit, but you know, walk
• 47:25
  me through and y'all got Hawkins there right?
• 47:27
  And, and I'm actually getting some Hawkins plates back for,
• 47:32
  for my business coming up. So I'm excited to kind of be
• 47:34
  able to get back into those right now.
• 47:36
  But what, what, what are you looking at possible, I guess
• 47:39
  first kind of throughout, you know, offseason in season, what
• 47:43
  does the maybe frequency of using that and, and kind of
• 47:45
  testing look like for you? And then what are the kind of
• 47:47
  the key things and metrics you're looking at over time with
• 47:50
  those two sports? With with the force plates in
• 47:53
  the offseason we we do we use it purely for testing, so not
• 47:58
  necessarily for readiness. So if we have a three or four
• 48:00
  week training block, we would go say at the beginning of the
• 48:02
  training block we test and then same thing post test 3 to 4
• 48:06
  weeks later. With both sports.
• 48:08
  I pretty much use the same three tests as of now.
• 48:11
  We just do a counter movement jump, a non counter movement
• 48:13
  jump, and a death jump. Just looking for one.
• 48:17
  Basically the difference between your non counter movement and
• 48:20
  your counter movement looking to see are you more of an you rely
• 48:23
  more on your eccentric contraction or are you more of a
• 48:25
  concentric based athlete? And then def jump looking to
• 48:29
  measure, react to strength like how quick can you get off the
• 48:31
  ground? And those are all valid
• 48:33
  qualities for both basketball and volleyball.
• 48:36
  And then we'll shift that down to once the end season begins.
• 48:40
  I would love to continue those 3 metrics next year I will or
• 48:45
  those three tests. I will say this year, just for
• 48:47
  time and constraints, it became I just to kind of remove jumps
• 48:51
  instead of squad jumps and depth jumps.
• 48:53
  We might get some here and there, but not on the frequency
• 48:55
  I would love to get. So in season, kind of remove
• 48:58
  jump becomes our pretty much gold standard and we're doing it
• 49:00
  on those days before a game. So like with women's basketball,
• 49:03
  always day before a game on the road, it makes it difficult.
• 49:05
  That's just a gap in the data trying to find a way to navigate
• 49:09
  that constraint. But that's just that's just the
• 49:11
  the world we're living in there. So I get kind of remove jumps
• 49:14
  within the primer lift on Wednesday.
• 49:16
  And then with volleyballs past year, we got kind of jumps on
• 49:19
  game day, which is nice, which is what I want to do for both
• 49:21
  teams going forward. And so we look at, I'm looking
• 49:24
  at it from the off seasons where you establish A baseline and
• 49:29
  look to be driving results. Training should be improved.
• 49:32
  You should be jumping higher, you should be getting off the
• 49:33
  ground faster, you should be jumping higher and doing it
• 49:35
  quicker. And then once we get to the end
• 49:37
  season, I have that that those baseline results, I'm ideally
• 49:40
  want to see that number keep climbing higher, but I'm also
• 49:44
  using it for readiness, like as a whole team below average.
• 49:46
  OK, then maybe practice was was a little too intense or, or the
• 49:50
  way it was too intense, you know, or, or a combination of
• 49:51
  both. And so we're using more for
• 49:53
  readiness in the Indian season, more for performance in the
• 49:55
  offseason. And then metrics wise, I'm not a
• 49:58
  force plate guru by any, any means.
• 49:59
  I keep it very simple. I'm looking to see are you
• 50:02
  jumping higher and are you doing quicker jump height and on for
• 50:07
  counter movement and squat jumps contraction time.
• 50:10
  Once you jump higher, once you do it quicker times, and then
• 50:13
  def jump, jump higher and get off the ground quicker.
• 50:16
  Those 22 super simple metrics for athletes to digest.
• 50:21
  And then I'll look at myself and look at things like RSI and
• 50:24
  breaking RFD. Those are probably my BIG4
• 50:28
  outside. I haven't dealt too much into
• 50:29
  some of the more maybe niche ones, which I need to.
• 50:32
  I'm actually just started reading Take Off by Daniel Bow.
• 50:35
  Hopefully that fills some of the gaps there.
• 50:38
  But to me, that's an easy way for myself to know that we're
• 50:41
  moving the needle and to explain it to athletes like, OK, you're
• 50:43
  jumping higher, but you're taking your gap kind of super
• 50:45
  slow. That's not good.
• 50:47
  We're going off the ground way quicker, but you're not jumping
• 50:48
  high. We need both.
• 50:49
  We want both to be trending in the right direction.
• 50:52
  Yeah, yeah. No, that's great with with the
• 50:54
  force plates in any of that data or any other metrics you're
• 50:58
  taking, you know, sprints, any, anything you could use.
• 51:02
  Are you doing any type of profiling or kind of bucketing
• 51:05
  at all with any of your athletes?
• 51:07
  This year, I'll be honest, I did not.
• 51:08
  But the goal is to do that going forward.
• 51:10
  We did a lot of it, took almost. I adapted for women's
• 51:14
  basketball, but so Gunnar Cederberg at Stanford is, is
• 51:17
  very big on this. I mean, he's got a really cool
• 51:20
  system there with the baseball team where they force plate jump
• 51:24
  every day, pretty much they Sprint every day all year round.
• 51:28
  And so he's constantly looking at who's forced dominant, who's
• 51:31
  velocity dominant and it's filling the gaps.
• 51:33
  And there's you're just constantly, OK, if I'm, if I'm
• 51:35
  more velocity dominant, I'm going to go on a force dominant
• 51:37
  program for maybe 4 weeks and bring that gap up.
• 51:39
  And now I'm going to go velocity dominant for four weeks and
• 51:41
  bring that gap up. And I, I, I would say I use the
• 51:46
  testing measures on my women's basket team this year, but we
• 51:49
  didn't get into full on force velocity profile, which is the
• 51:52
  goal for this next season. And I mean that by all
• 51:54
  offseason. We have a Max velocity day where
• 51:56
  we're doing counter movement jumps and things like a flying
• 51:59
  10 yard Sprint. And then we'll have another day
• 52:01
  where it's more of a force dominant day.
• 52:03
  We're doing non counter movement jumps and a 20 yard Sprint.
• 52:07
  So I think like not using momentum, accelerating versus
• 52:11
  pop in speed, how quick are you when you have momentum?
• 52:13
  I think it's very, I think I think it's super valuable and
• 52:17
  Gunnar does a phenomenal job. I mean, some of the sessions are
• 52:21
  he creates a culture there where the guy, I mean, you could have
• 52:24
  anywhere from 5 to 2530 guys in the session and they are almost
• 52:30
  robotic in terms of they just they understand the language
• 52:32
  uses on the sheet. I think he does a really good
• 52:34
  job of laying a foundation early on so that guys understand the
• 52:38
  sheet and doesn't do a ton of demos because guys just know,
• 52:40
  OK, if it says essay a single arm HK that's half kneeling and
• 52:45
  then they can fill in the rest. And then he'll he might tweak up
• 52:47
  the coaching cues from there once they're actually doing it.
• 52:50
  But I say that because I think when you lay a foundation like
• 52:53
  that, then it allows him to incorporate the sports science
• 52:56
  piece so seamlessly. Because I know my guys are doing
• 52:59
  the right stuff. Now I can spend time collecting
• 53:01
  all this 20 yard acceleration data and in the the force plates
• 53:06
  in the same session. So I mean that that's what a
• 53:07
  session looks like at Stanford baseball, which is it?
• 53:09
  It's insane. It's it's come in warm up and
• 53:12
  then it's Sprint work climetrics within that testing, they're
• 53:15
  collecting data every session. There's no just putting the
• 53:18
  timers out for intent to have the evolved smart speeds, which
• 53:21
  helps to just sense the data to the cloud.
• 53:23
  But say you have a, you have 4 lifts, 1 then will be a force
• 53:28
  day, one then will be a velocity day.
• 53:30
  And on the force day you're hitting 20 yard sprints and now
• 53:32
  kind of room and jump on the force plate.
• 53:34
  On velocity day you're hitting kind of movement jumps and
• 53:37
  flying 10's. And they're doing that all year
• 53:38
  round. So he's getting just insane
• 53:40
  amounts of data and he's just, he's profiling guys based on
• 53:43
  that, based on their ratios of camera jump height to non camera
• 53:47
  jump height and 20 yard Sprint speed to 10 yard Sprint flying,
• 53:51
  10 yard Sprint speed. And you see guys just become
• 53:53
  freak athletes. I mean, Stanford baseball has
• 53:54
  some of the best athletes on that campus jump the highest
• 53:57
  Sprint the fastest. And I, I give I'll give Gunner
• 54:00
  full credit. He won't take the full credit,
• 54:02
  but I'll give him full credit because again, just using that
• 54:04
  kind of system where it's like, Hey, find your weakness, bring
• 54:06
  it up. OK, now you actually made your
• 54:08
  weakness for strength. Bring the next one up and you're
• 54:09
  training all the qualities, but you're just you're tweaking.
• 54:12
  It might be like, hey, I'm in a force dominant program.
• 54:15
  So now I'm hitting lower speeds on the VBT for this four weeks
• 54:18
  and and everyone might be in the same exercise, but one guy's got
• 54:21
  chained, one guy's got bands and I, I have not done it yet here
• 54:25
  are you? But something that's definitely
• 54:26
  in the works, I think has a lot of value for for basketball.
• 54:29
  I think basketball players especially love
• 54:31
  individualization. They love the idea of like, Oh,
• 54:34
  this is a program just for me. And that's a way to to do that
• 54:37
  for them in an objective way, not just like, oh, like you look
• 54:39
  slow or like you look. So, you know, you look like
• 54:41
  you're strong and slow or you look like you're weak and, and,
• 54:44
  and twitchy. Because I know I have the
• 54:45
  objective data to back it up. And here's how we're going to
• 54:48
  make your weakness your strength.
• 54:49
  Yeah, no, that's really, really cool.
• 54:50
  Do you? Do you Sprint your volleyball
• 54:52
  players? I didn't this past season, but I
• 54:54
  am now in this offseason. We are doing on our upper body
• 55:00
  days, so our lower body days just for time constraints.
• 55:03
  We're just keeping it like plyometrics on one of our upper
• 55:05
  body days. We're starting it with
• 55:07
  acceleration works. We're doing things like banded
• 55:10
  bounds, unresisted bounds, LED three-step bursts, 10 yard, 5
• 55:14
  yard sprints, 10 yard sprints all times.
• 55:16
  And they love it. Honestly, all I haven't seen I,
• 55:18
  I know Anthony's sprinting his girls now, but we weren't when I
• 55:21
  was there some other Volvo partners I've been around
• 55:23
  haven't sprinted, but I think it makes a lot of sense.
• 55:25
  One, not only is it a good foundation to jumping higher,
• 55:28
  but I mean so much of the sport just like can you get, can you
• 55:30
  get the ball? And I think sometimes that's
• 55:33
  where we maybe sell shorts passes.
• 55:34
  And so that's that's been a big point of system.
• 55:36
  Right now we're only doing one day.
• 55:38
  I think there's bigger qualities we need to hone in on.
• 55:40
  But I think as we get closer to the season, I'm trying to run
• 55:42
  probably 2 Sprint days. Nice, nice.
• 55:44
  In the beginning you talked about your story.
• 55:47
  You talked about, you know, first seeing like Paul favorites
• 55:49
  and PGF performing. I remember that was, I remember
• 55:52
  actually like when I, so I stopped playing football at ACU
• 55:56
  at the end of spring training my freshman year, decided, OK, I'm
• 56:00
  going to stop playing football. I'm going to go into like
• 56:02
  coaching. I remember actually, I think
• 56:04
  his, his videos on like vertical jump training were some of the
• 56:06
  first videos that I watched on YouTube, like right after I made
• 56:09
  that decision. But you talked about, you know,
• 56:11
  OK, I want to I want to do what he's doing.
• 56:13
  And you kind of talked about your path, like as you've gotten
• 56:15
  further in that, like where do you see yourself?
• 56:18
  Like what? Like do you have a goal?
• 56:20
  OK. This is still like where I want
• 56:22
  to be in the future of my career.
• 56:25
  Or are you kind of just like I'm going to be really, really good
• 56:27
  at Oral Roberts and you know, that's going to take me where it
• 56:30
  takes me and then that next file will take me where that takes
• 56:32
  me. Do you have, do you have
• 56:33
  something that you're working towards?
• 56:34
  Yeah. So I got in in this to work in
• 56:37
  high level basketball. I was like, I want to work in
• 56:39
  the NBAI want to stick courtside NBA games, work with NBA
• 56:41
  players. I'm not saying it's off the
• 56:45
  table, but I will say I think my perspectives change.
• 56:47
  They've become a little bit more broad the past couple years
• 56:50
  actually, after actually being in the field.
• 56:52
  And so I think my goal is still to work at the highest level of
• 56:55
  basketball, but I love or you and I work with great people and
• 57:01
  I have family in town and there's no great facilities and
• 57:05
  it is it is a great mid major to be at.
• 57:07
  And so I look at that now. It's like, how can we turn or
• 57:09
  you win this basketball into the high school basketball?
• 57:11
  How can we be winning the summer league?
• 57:13
  How can we be making into the way tournament appearances?
• 57:15
  And to me, that's almost become more enticing than, you know,
• 57:19
  maybe bouncing and finding a more established program or a
• 57:22
  program that's currently winning more games than we are.
• 57:24
  I think it's just, it's my career goal right now is to turn
• 57:28
  the two programs I'm currently working with into dynasties.
• 57:32
  And I think there'll be a lot of film in that in, in doing it
• 57:36
  with the with the people you love and and kind of staying
• 57:39
  true to one spot. I would love to get to the point
• 57:42
  where I'm able to solely provide for my family.
• 57:45
  I'm, I'm married. I said no kids earlier, but kids
• 57:49
  are. We like to have kids in the
• 57:50
  future. And as you know, it's just,
• 57:52
  there's just limitations to try and condition at times.
• 57:55
  And so I think a goal of mine would be to become a sole
• 57:58
  provider through the school itself or through starting a
• 58:00
  side hustle while I'm here in Tulsa.
• 58:02
  I think that's that's one thing that again, I'm inspired by your
• 58:04
  work is like that's guys who step out and start their own
• 58:08
  business that I think so much of.
• 58:10
  You know, you look at some of the guys from making be the most
• 58:12
  sustainable money in train conditioning.
• 58:13
  It's either probably at the highest level of men's
• 58:16
  basketball or football, or they're running their own
• 58:18
  company. And so I look at that as a
• 58:21
  career goal now, but I don't, I'm not saying I necessarily
• 58:23
  want to leave the collegiate setting, but I'm looking to find
• 58:26
  a way I can train kids two nights a week for sure.
• 58:29
  And to supplement some of that, that incomes, again, high level
• 58:32
  basketball is the goal, but I want to turn, you know, be where
• 58:37
  my feet are now and and turn where I'm at into the high level
• 58:40
  basketball. Yeah.
• 58:41
  You know, and you know, if I could go back to when I was at
• 58:44
  like over year, some of the spots I would, I would
• 58:46
  definitely try and start something on the side while I
• 58:50
  was still in that where then, you know, if if you ever do
• 58:53
  like, hey, I am going to go start my own business or
• 58:55
  whatever. It's like now you've got
• 58:56
  something built up, you got some proof of concept, you got
• 58:58
  something to build off of versus just making the jump and going
• 59:01
  into it. But I also think, you know, you
• 59:03
  see a lot of people kind of, I feel like doing it more now, but
• 59:05
  like there's also some like credibility that comes from your
• 59:09
  position in college that can help you start that stuff on the
• 59:11
  side. So yeah, I mean, if I was back
• 59:13
  there back back in college, I got definitely trying to start
• 59:16
  something on the side. Definitely recommend that for
• 59:18
  sure. How do you you think about
• 59:20
  development for yourself? I think working in a field like
• 59:24
  this, it's honestly one of the coolest aspects of it because
• 59:28
  you know, if you, if you're working in maybe a corporate job
• 59:31
  that you don't really love, but it pays the bills, then you
• 59:34
  don't, you know, you think of developing skills as maybe it
• 59:37
  means to make more money versus I think in our profession, we
• 59:40
  look at it as, you know, this will this will make me have a
• 59:43
  greater impact on the assets I work with when it comes to skill
• 59:46
  development, I'm big on one. Try to do things on your own,
• 59:50
  and I mean that by running your own program on yourself.
• 59:52
  I think to the best of our ability, not saying they need to
• 59:55
  be world class athletes, but we should be able to practice what
• 59:58
  we preach to an extent. And not only is that going to
• 1:00:02
  your athletes going to see that and they're going to buy in a
• 1:00:04
  little bit more when you're, you know, when you're doing a demo
• 1:00:06
  or just. Based on the way you carry
• 1:00:07
  yourself, but I also think that answers a lot of your
• 1:00:10
  programming questions. When you've already run the
• 1:00:13
  program on yourself, then it's OK.
• 1:00:14
  I saw this pitfall coming. I can tweak it before the
• 1:00:16
  session comes. And so I'm big on that.
• 1:00:19
  I think you'll, you'll learn a lot just from training yourself.
• 1:00:23
  That's what's so cool about our fields.
• 1:00:24
  Like it's such a physical field. So learning doesn't always have
• 1:00:27
  to be a book or, or, you know, reading an article.
• 1:00:30
  And so, for example, my my last spot at Stanford, working with
• 1:00:34
  Michael Robinson, who was again, a great mentor to me.
• 1:00:37
  I can't give him enough credit. He was the kind of mentor who
• 1:00:39
  would sit every week we sit down to continue education and we
• 1:00:44
  would train together almost every day of that one year I was
• 1:00:47
  there and it would be training of a very similar style what we
• 1:00:50
  were giving the men's basketball team.
• 1:00:51
  And so through that process, I'm learning what, what works, what
• 1:00:55
  doesn't, what feels good, what doesn't feel good from a
• 1:00:57
  movement selection standpoint. And you just start answering
• 1:00:59
  some of your questions. And, and that another thing is
• 1:01:01
  getting messy. I think something I'm trying to
• 1:01:04
  embrace is just doing things, you know, you're not going to be
• 1:01:07
  good. It's, I mean like forget, like
• 1:01:09
  doing a podcast, like it's not, not easy to, I'm sure I'm trying
• 1:01:12
  your own and start, start up a podcast from the ground up.
• 1:01:14
  And, but you just did it. And over time, I'm sure every
• 1:01:17
  episode you feel more confident and every episode gets better.
• 1:01:21
  And I think that applies to a lot of skills.
• 1:01:23
  It's like, Hey, can I just avoid, Don't let perfect be the
• 1:01:26
  enemy of good and just do it. And what that looks like for me
• 1:01:29
  is when I'm speaking to a team, I think, you know, a big role of
• 1:01:34
  strength coaching, be like the motivator, the guy who gets the
• 1:01:36
  team fired up and not say I'm, you know, beating on the walls
• 1:01:39
  and screaming at the lady. But sometimes I'll hold, I would
• 1:01:42
  find this early on, like holding back from maybe trying to come
• 1:01:46
  up with some little motivational talk.
• 1:01:47
  Not not nothing needs to be Ted talking for super long.
• 1:01:50
  But lately I've been like, just say what comes to mind, Think
• 1:01:52
  before you speak, but just do it.
• 1:01:53
  If it's not perfect, it's OK, because over the years you're
• 1:01:56
  going to get better and better talking to your teams.
• 1:01:57
  And then and eventually you're going to get to the point where
• 1:01:59
  you know how to get team fired up.
• 1:02:00
  You know how to get team like they were were pre practice lift
• 1:02:04
  girls came in with horrible energy and you need and the lift
• 1:02:07
  was was subpar. Kind of just going through it.
• 1:02:09
  You might need to bring everybody in.
• 1:02:10
  Hey, how can you how can you restart the the button for the
• 1:02:13
  day and make sure that interview doesn't bleed into practice?
• 1:02:16
  And I feel like that just comes from reps.
• 1:02:18
  It just comes from trying and not and not being afraid to
• 1:02:21
  sound corny or be cringy and just doing it.
• 1:02:24
  And over time it just gets easier and easier.
• 1:02:25
  And and besides that, just buying other coaches program
• 1:02:28
  things. That is a big one.
• 1:02:30
  For example, I bought the PGF twitch code recently and I've
• 1:02:34
  been like taking a bunch of stuff out of that and throwing
• 1:02:36
  them up in my own programming. The vert code and the cockerels
• 1:02:39
  program framework for flight. I think those are, those are
• 1:02:42
  ways where not only can you support some of your peers, but
• 1:02:46
  you can learn it. I think those are sometimes just
• 1:02:47
  as valuable as, as buying a transition book.
• 1:02:50
  And sometimes I, I feel, I think social media makes us have this
• 1:02:53
  urge where it's like, I need to be constantly reinventing the
• 1:02:56
  wheel or else I'm not moving the needle in my field.
• 1:02:59
  But there's a lot out there already.
• 1:03:01
  There's a lot of really good stuff out there.
• 1:03:02
  And I'm at the point where it's like, Hey, you know, I just
• 1:03:05
  finished my 3rd year. Like I you, you can let
• 1:03:08
  innovation come naturally, but I think if we're just searching
• 1:03:10
  for it without having done our homework, we're missing the boat
• 1:03:13
  a little bit. So, So for me, I look at how
• 1:03:15
  there's so many great programs out there, there's so many great
• 1:03:17
  coaches out there. Why not take what they're doing
• 1:03:19
  and implement it into your own setting and maybe modify it
• 1:03:23
  where you need to modify Everything doesn't need to be
• 1:03:25
  new and flashy. And I think again, I think
• 1:03:27
  social media makes us think that way because that's how you stand
• 1:03:30
  out. It's like being a little bit
• 1:03:31
  controversial or having an unorthodox approach, but there's
• 1:03:36
  just so much value already out there.
• 1:03:37
  And then and then last, just like reading books and and
• 1:03:39
  podcasts like this one are, are thing very, you know, a great
• 1:03:43
  way to continue to develop skills because it's not a
• 1:03:46
  profession, in my opinion, where you get home and maybe some
• 1:03:50
  days, but you get home, just want to turn it off.
• 1:03:51
  It's so such interesting content that, you know, I can finish a
• 1:03:54
  day of work and, and listen to the strength numbers podcast on
• 1:03:57
  the way home or the PGF performance podcast on the way
• 1:03:59
  home. And it doesn't feel like I'm
• 1:04:00
  like studying. It's just an it's enjoyable
• 1:04:02
  content. And I think all those things
• 1:04:04
  are, they all come, come, what's the word?
• 1:04:08
  They all come together to help you develop your skills and
• 1:04:10
  strength for sure. Man, Jacob, this, this has been
• 1:04:12
  awesome, awesome conversation, man, awesome.
• 1:04:15
  Get into, you know, connect for the first time, hear your story,
• 1:04:18
  learn about how you got where you're at.
• 1:04:20
  Man it it's really cool what you're doing.
• 1:04:22
  I'm excited to see the the way you get a continue to impact
• 1:04:27
  those two programs, like you say, make them the big time,
• 1:04:30
  make them, you know, great programs and dynasties and
• 1:04:33
  excited man, to see just the way you continue to grow.
• 1:04:35
  I mean, from that, you know what we just talked what you just
• 1:04:37
  talked about right there and just whole conversation, it's
• 1:04:39
  really clear that you care about this a lot, man.
• 1:04:41
  You're super invested in learning and really, really
• 1:04:44
  thinking about it in a cool way. So man, I'm excited to see just
• 1:04:46
  the way you continue to impact, impact athletes, impact to their
• 1:04:49
  coaches and impact the people around you, man.
• 1:04:51
  Thanks gentlemen. This has been great.
• 1:04:52
  I really appreciate you. Yeah, is there, you know, if if
• 1:04:55
  people listen in, wanted to check out more of what you're
• 1:04:58
  doing or connected to you, is there anywhere they should go?
• 1:05:00
  Yes, I'm on Instagram. You can look up Jacob Garvin or
• 1:05:04
  Sniper Strength is my alternative name.
• 1:05:07
  Or just you can look up the ORU directory.
• 1:05:09
  Shoot me an e-mail. I think it's jgarvin@oru.edu.
• 1:05:12
  Those are the two spots. Awesome, Jacob, I appreciate you
• 1:05:14
  being on today, man. Thanks man, Appreciate you.
• 1:05:17
  If you enjoyed this conversation and want to go deeper, check out
• 1:05:19
  my book Strength in Numbers, Insight from top Coaches, and
• 1:05:22
  How to Build your Career, Handle failure, and Achieve long Term
• 1:05:26
  Coaching Success. It brings together insights and
• 1:05:29
  wisdom from over 100 coaches across all levels in sports.
• 1:05:33
  You can find it on Amazon and LinkedIn, the show notes, and if
• 1:05:35
  this episode helped you follow the show and leave a review.
• 1:05:38
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• 1:05:41
  people.