Latest / Core Memory / The Joy And Doom Of New San Francisco - EP 55 Jayden Clark

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The Joy And Doom Of New San Francisco - EP 55 Jayden Clark · Core Memory

0:00
SPEAKER_03: To me, it felt like that, you know, the hype was around media.
0:04
SPEAKER_03: Everyone was spinning up their new interview series.
0:06
SPEAKER_03: They were,
0:06
SPEAKER_03: you know,
0:07
SPEAKER_03: whether it be like a fund or even startups at this point,
0:09
SPEAKER_03: right,
0:10
SPEAKER_03: taking on a whole media team.
0:12
SPEAKER_03: And it felt very samey, you know.
0:14
It's like I'm not going to go ahead and like name like startups
0:16
or whatever,
0:17
SPEAKER_03: like with media arms that do this.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: But to me,
0:19
SPEAKER_03: it just felt,
0:20
I felt like I was seeing a pattern of like the same interview
0:22
with the same
0:23
SPEAKER_03: founders saying the exact same thing because these founders,
0:25
they go and they're raising and they're saying the exact same
0:27
thing to the exact
0:28
SPEAKER_03: same VC.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:30
And they're going to be doing the podcast rounds in the lead up
0:32
to raising funds
0:33
SPEAKER_03: or,
0:34
SPEAKER_03: you know,
0:34
SPEAKER_03: a product announcement or all these sorts of things.
0:36
SPEAKER_03: And I think with that,
0:37
SPEAKER_03: you also kind of,
0:39
SPEAKER_03: you get locked by comms teams,
0:40
SPEAKER_03: especially if you want to go after like bigger and bigger guests,
0:43
SPEAKER_03: right?
0:43
Like you're having to run things by comms,
0:45
like all of these sorts of things.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: And again, these are all just people that are just doing their jobs.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: So definitely can't fault them.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: But I felt like... Oh, yeah, you can?
0:52
SPEAKER_03: I can, yes.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: You said it, not me.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Hello, I'm Kylie Robison, a writer for Core Memory.
1:15
This is a very special episode because it's my first time
1:18
hosting alone and I
1:19
SPEAKER_02: brought the best person to do it with,
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Jaden.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Jaden, how are you?
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Please introduce yourself.
1:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm doing okay.
1:25
I just walked through an entire construction site and I was
1:29
escorted off the site.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: By a construction manager.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: It was very, very nice, by the way.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: But we're pretty good.
1:38
SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm feeling pretty good.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: It's just a great day to be alive in the center of the universe.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: In the center of the universe.
1:46
And for the listener with a keen ear,
1:48
you sound otherworldly,
1:51
perhaps Australian.
1:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: Please tell me more about that.
1:55
SPEAKER_03: Tell you more about Australia.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Perhaps that or how an Australian ended up in the center of the universe.
2:02
SPEAKER_03: Goodness gracious.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean, my story is fake, really.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
2:06
SPEAKER_03: it really is like,
2:07
SPEAKER_03: I feel like if you were to sort of,
2:09
SPEAKER_03: you know,
2:09
SPEAKER_03: ask somebody,
2:10
SPEAKER_03: how can you build like the fakest kind of character?
2:13
SPEAKER_03: Just like just the most sort of, I don't know.
2:15
SPEAKER_03: My story doesn't really make sense.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: But like I moved here just straight out of high school.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: So I went to performing arts high school in my little town of Wollongong,
2:25
SPEAKER_03: Australia,
2:25
SPEAKER_03: so two hours south of Sydney.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, just kind of wanted to play saxophone for a living.
2:31
SPEAKER_03: So people,
2:31
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
2:32
SPEAKER_03: people on X.com,
2:32
SPEAKER_03: the Everything app,
2:33
SPEAKER_03: I think they've probably been seeing little glimpses of this,
2:35
SPEAKER_03: this other alter ego or what would have probably been my original ego.
2:40
But yeah,
2:41
that's what originally got me to the US,
2:43
was actually playing saxophone.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: So I moved to San Francisco at age 19 to go to the Conservatory of Music.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Which is crazy.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: And a little bit more about you.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: You're a podcaster.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: It's such a slur.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: It's such a slur.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: I wish, you know, I like to call it like a glorified consultant.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:01
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of what I tell,
3:02
SPEAKER_03: you know,
3:02
SPEAKER_03: that's what I like to tell women if I ever,
3:04
SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: make a,
3:06
SPEAKER_03: you know,
3:06
SPEAKER_03: get the urge to even speak to one.
3:07
But as people probably know that I only,
3:09
I can only really do this on podcasts.
3:12
What people probably don't know is I was actually nonverbal
3:14
until we started recording.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
3:17
So tell me more about how you got into podcasting from playing
3:22
the saxophone.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: How did we get here?
3:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
3:24
SPEAKER_03: I think it was like,
3:25
SPEAKER_03: you know,
3:25
SPEAKER_03: it's like a very,
3:26
SPEAKER_03: very natural career path of,
3:28
SPEAKER_03: you know,
3:28
SPEAKER_03: jazz saxophone did a little bit of time at a hedge fund,
3:32
SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: straight out of music school.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: So go figure that pretty stereotypical career path.
3:37
SPEAKER_03: You know,
3:37
SPEAKER_03: then went back to music publishing,
3:39
SPEAKER_03: did a lot of content,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
3:41
SPEAKER_03: with my old teacher,
3:42
SPEAKER_03: sort of like worked with his music publishing startup making music.
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SPEAKER_03: what's called jazz lesson videos, a really, really nice YouTube channel.
3:48
SPEAKER_03: Still,
3:48
SPEAKER_03: they're still going,
3:48
SPEAKER_03: still going,
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SPEAKER_03: like publishing digital resources,
3:51
SPEAKER_03: all of those sorts of things,
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SPEAKER_03: like making a lot of jazz tutorials.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: Then naturally decided to do a B2B SaaS startup.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: And so,
3:58
SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: built that in both Sydney and,
3:59
SPEAKER_03: you know,
4:00
SPEAKER_03: moved back to San Francisco at the beginning of last year permanently,
4:04
SPEAKER_03: uh,
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SPEAKER_03: to build that.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: And then, yeah.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: So, and then, you know, naturally lead you to podcasting.
4:08
So just again,
4:09
stereotypical career path,
4:11
um,
4:11
pretty just straight out of the book.
4:13
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think like
4:15
SPEAKER_03: I think how I...
4:16
SPEAKER_03: ended up starting it, right?
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Or like even thinking about wanting to do it was,
4:21
SPEAKER_03: uh,
4:22
SPEAKER_03: you know,
4:22
SPEAKER_03: just,
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SPEAKER_03: just like doing little bits of work,
4:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
4:24
SPEAKER_03: like,
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SPEAKER_03: like helps TBPN a little bit in the early days,
4:26
SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: working with guys like Brent Liang,
4:28
SPEAKER_03: obviously close with guys like,
4:30
SPEAKER_03: uh,
4:30
SPEAKER_03: well,
4:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
4:30
SPEAKER_03: obviously he's at A16Z now,
4:32
SPEAKER_03: Eric Torenberg.
4:33
And it was sort of got to the point in which,
4:36
uh,
4:36
I had sort of all these people in my ear.
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SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, maybe you should, maybe you should do a show.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: Maybe, maybe this is like a better fit for you.
4:41
Like,
4:41
I know Eric was always saying like,
4:42
man,
4:43
you should,
4:43
you should have a show.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: Like you should do a show.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: And I always felt like a bit kind of imposter syndrome.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: It's like, what have I really, like, what have I done?
4:51
You know,
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I'm like this 27-year-old,
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you know,
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single,
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now unemployed,
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basically,
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guy.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: Like, what would I even have to say?
4:59
SPEAKER_02: That's every podcaster ever.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: So you're in great company.
5:03
SPEAKER_03: Just to join the club.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:06
But you're really underselling yourself,
5:07
actually,
5:08
because...
5:08
I was fishing for that.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: So you were just featured in The Times.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: You've had a slate of other features in big publications.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Can you remind me of the others?
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SPEAKER_03: The New Yorker.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: The New Yorker.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: That was a funny one.
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SPEAKER_03: Kyle's article.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm speaking to him a bunch.
5:25
That was on the permanent underclass,
5:27
which I can't say that I necessarily coined.
5:30
SPEAKER_03: I think...
5:32
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of funny, like I had a few people sort of yelling at me.
5:34
SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh no, like, this was you, this was you, like, please.
5:38
But I think my contribution to that was more sort of along the
5:41
lines of like,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
5:43
SPEAKER_03: you have two years to accumulate capital,
5:45
SPEAKER_03: right?
5:45
SPEAKER_03: And so like the whole idea of like AGI 2027.
5:49
And so I just thought it would be really funny to just like
5:52
post a series of tweets
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SPEAKER_03: for weeks on end,
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SPEAKER_03: just referencing like,
5:55
SPEAKER_03: you know.
5:56
You have two years to accumulate capital to escape the
5:59
permanent underclass.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: And now,
5:59
SPEAKER_03: of course,
6:00
SPEAKER_03: now with flawed code,
6:01
SPEAKER_03: all of these sorts of things,
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SPEAKER_03: that discourse has kind of come back,
6:04
SPEAKER_03: actually.
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SPEAKER_03: It's kind of interesting how it comes in waves.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: You're really good at a consistent format, which I love.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: All right, what do we do at Core Memory?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: We cover innovative,
6:13
SPEAKER_00: fast-moving,
6:15
SPEAKER_00: forward-thinking companies,
6:16
SPEAKER_00: which is why Core Memory is sponsored by Brex,
6:20
because Brex is the intelligent finance platform for many of
6:25
these companies,
6:26
SPEAKER_00: 30,000 companies from startups to the world's largest corporations.
6:31
rely on brex's technology for their finances they've got smart
6:35
corporate cards high
6:37
yield business banking and expense automation tools that are
6:42
fantastic i hate doing
6:43
my expenses and brex's ai's and software run right through
6:48
those expenses figure
6:49
out where we're spending money and take care of so much stuff
6:52
for you so you don't
6:53
SPEAKER_00: have to waste your time on it yourself
6:56
Go to brex.com slash core memory to learn more and just,
7:00
you know,
7:01
get with the program.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Let's get going.
7:03
Let's get out of this archaic finance software and move toward
7:07
the future.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Core memory and Brex.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: We met at, I think it was the 4th of July party last year.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: And that was also in The Times, the peptides.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: And we're just a part of this,
7:20
SPEAKER_02: like,
7:20
being in your 20s San Francisco world where you can end up in
7:23
The New Yorker
7:24
SPEAKER_02: because you made a meme.
7:25
And I just wanted to dive into that more because I think it can
7:29
be really insular.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes when a legacy publication covers it,
7:33
SPEAKER_02: like,
7:33
SPEAKER_02: for example,
7:34
SPEAKER_02: the arena or Cerebral Valley,
7:36
SPEAKER_02: uh,
7:37
SPEAKER_02: It's sort of this bird's eye view of what we're doing out here.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a lot weirder and dumber and more fun in all the ways.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: So I just wanted to explain that.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Going back, TBPN, tell me what you did with TBPN.
7:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
7:50
SPEAKER_03: so I mean,
7:50
SPEAKER_03: like,
7:50
SPEAKER_03: really just,
7:50
SPEAKER_03: like,
7:51
SPEAKER_03: honestly tried to help them,
7:53
SPEAKER_03: Brent,
7:53
SPEAKER_03: you know,
7:53
SPEAKER_03: work directly with Brent,
7:55
SPEAKER_03: just,
7:55
SPEAKER_03: you know,
7:56
SPEAKER_03: just doing,
7:56
SPEAKER_03: just helping them with their clipping strategy,
7:58
SPEAKER_03: right?
7:58
And any other help that I could give,
8:00
you know,
8:00
just in the very early days.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I mean, it's like,
8:05
SPEAKER_03: I guess I'm sort of like vaguely associated with them for,
8:08
SPEAKER_03: for a period,
8:09
SPEAKER_03: uh,
8:09
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:09
SPEAKER_03: I think to take,
8:10
SPEAKER_03: to take much credit for,
8:11
SPEAKER_03: for,
8:11
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:12
SPEAKER_03: what,
8:12
SPEAKER_03: how,
8:12
SPEAKER_03: what they've become and,
8:13
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:14
SPEAKER_03: what they've turned into,
8:15
SPEAKER_03: uh,
8:15
SPEAKER_03: that would,
8:15
SPEAKER_03: I think that'd be wrong to do,
8:16
SPEAKER_03: but,
8:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:17
SPEAKER_03: obviously like just,
8:18
SPEAKER_03: just happy to have,
8:19
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:19
SPEAKER_03: played a,
8:19
SPEAKER_03: played a really,
8:20
SPEAKER_03: really small part,
8:21
SPEAKER_03: uh,
8:22
SPEAKER_03: in,
8:22
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:22
SPEAKER_03: in sort of.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: what they have become because they are a juggernaut now.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And,
8:26
SPEAKER_03: um,
8:26
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:26
SPEAKER_03: and as,
8:27
SPEAKER_03: as you know,
8:27
SPEAKER_03: they're,
8:28
SPEAKER_03: they're great guys,
8:28
SPEAKER_03: like,
8:29
SPEAKER_03: like big,
8:29
SPEAKER_03: big,
8:29
SPEAKER_03: big fans.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: And,
8:30
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:30
SPEAKER_03: I hope to go down to LA and just,
8:32
SPEAKER_03: just catch up with them,
8:33
SPEAKER_03: like,
8:33
SPEAKER_03: see,
8:33
SPEAKER_03: see what their studio is like now,
8:35
SPEAKER_03: all sorts of things.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: But,
8:36
SPEAKER_03: uh,
8:36
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
8:37
SPEAKER_03: just kind of,
8:37
SPEAKER_03: I think like,
8:38
SPEAKER_03: you know,
8:38
SPEAKER_03: and I think from then it was sort of,
8:40
SPEAKER_03: uh,
8:41
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
8:41
SPEAKER_03: just,
8:41
SPEAKER_03: just people reaching out.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
8:43
SPEAKER_03: okay,
8:43
SPEAKER_03: well maybe,
8:44
SPEAKER_03: and then it sort of made me believe like,
8:45
SPEAKER_03: oh,
8:45
SPEAKER_03: maybe the media thing is the thing that I should do.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: And again, it's only been four months since I've been doing it.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: Four months is crazy.
8:52
SPEAKER_03: It was like four years.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Four years, I bet.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we were unemployed at the same time.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: Real.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: And watching you and partaking.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: I went on an episode of MOTS when I was deeply unemployed.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: And it was really fun.
9:04
SPEAKER_03: And it was about unemployment.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: And it was about unemployment, yeah.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: Now we're doing it.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: I mentioned you on the last podcast.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: I said, Jade responded to my tweet, unemployed light.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so tell me more about your podcast.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: Members of technical staff, MOTS, what do you do on the podcast?
9:23
SPEAKER_02: What do you talk about?
9:24
SPEAKER_02: What's the goal?
9:24
Yeah,
9:25
I think the goal,
9:25
the goal is to be neither timely nor timeless,
9:28
right?
9:28
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
9:28
SPEAKER_03: like some,
9:29
SPEAKER_03: somewhere in between,
9:30
SPEAKER_03: uh,
9:30
SPEAKER_03: because I think,
9:31
SPEAKER_03: you know,
9:32
SPEAKER_03: I,
9:32
SPEAKER_03: I think like,
9:34
SPEAKER_03: like I was kind of mentioning,
9:35
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
9:35
SPEAKER_03: I,
9:36
SPEAKER_03: I,
9:36
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've,
9:37
SPEAKER_03: I think I've done enough in which I can have takes on stuff.
9:41
SPEAKER_03: But I,
9:42
SPEAKER_03: I've also not done enough in which I can necessarily,
9:44
SPEAKER_03: in which I feel confident in being like a source of truth all the time.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: You know,
9:48
SPEAKER_03: obviously you can,
9:49
SPEAKER_03: you can do your own research and I think you can,
9:51
SPEAKER_03: I think it's good to be overprepared as,
9:53
SPEAKER_03: as any host of any show.
9:55
SPEAKER_03: Um,
9:56
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
9:56
SPEAKER_03: I,
9:57
SPEAKER_03: I think that the cool position that I'm in,
9:59
SPEAKER_03: especially,
9:59
SPEAKER_03: you know,
9:59
SPEAKER_03: with my Twitter account,
10:00
SPEAKER_03: these sorts of things,
10:02
SPEAKER_03: um,
10:02
SPEAKER_03: is that I've,
10:02
SPEAKER_03: I've,
10:03
SPEAKER_03: I've managed to build up a,
10:04
SPEAKER_03: a,
10:04
SPEAKER_03: a,
10:05
SPEAKER_03: a decent following.
10:07
SPEAKER_03: with some just really, really great minds.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: And so,
10:10
SPEAKER_03: you know,
10:10
SPEAKER_03: I know an audience is there for my antics,
10:13
SPEAKER_03: whatever you want to call it,
10:15
SPEAKER_03: mental illness.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: So there is an audience there for it.
10:18
SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, I think for me, I really thought about...
10:23
SPEAKER_03: To me,
10:23
it felt like a lot of tech media especially was just kind of
10:26
fitting into like a,
10:27
SPEAKER_03: it was like a box,
10:28
SPEAKER_03: right?
10:28
SPEAKER_03: It's like, to me, it felt like that, you know, the hype was around media.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: Everyone was spinning up their, their new interview series.
10:35
They were,
10:36
you know,
10:36
whether it be like a fund or even startups at this,
10:38
at this point,
10:38
right?
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Taking on a whole, whole media team.
10:41
And it felt very samey,
10:42
you know,
10:43
it's like,
10:43
I'm not going to go ahead and like name,
10:44
like.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: startups or whatever, like with media arms that do this.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: But to me,
10:48
SPEAKER_03: it just felt,
10:49
I felt like I was seeing a pattern of like the same interview
10:51
with the same
10:52
SPEAKER_03: founders saying the exact same thing because these founders,
10:54
they go and they're raising and they're saying the exact same
10:57
thing to the exact
10:57
SPEAKER_03: same VC.
10:59
And they're going to be doing the podcast rounds in the lead up
11:01
to raising funds
11:03
SPEAKER_03: or,
11:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
11:03
SPEAKER_03: a product announcement or all these sorts of things.
11:05
SPEAKER_03: And I think with that, you also kind of
11:08
SPEAKER_03: you get locked by comms teams,
11:10
SPEAKER_03: especially if you want to go after like bigger and bigger guests,
11:12
SPEAKER_03: right?
11:12
Like you're having to run things by comms,
11:14
like all of these sorts of things.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: And again, these are all just people that are just doing their jobs.
11:17
SPEAKER_03: So definitely can't fault them.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: But I felt like- Oh yeah, you can?
11:21
SPEAKER_03: I can, yes.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: You said it, not me.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:25
But I think that's coming from like a traditional media
11:27
background into this new
11:28
SPEAKER_02: media environment.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: And you're joining like the rooms of podcasters.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: And as you mentioned, this box.
11:34
So tell me more about like making this new thing and making it
11:37
something you enjoy
11:38
SPEAKER_02: because you're putting like
11:39
SPEAKER_02: everything into this.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
11:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_03: I think for me, uh, I don't know.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: I just,
11:45
SPEAKER_03: I thought what,
11:45
SPEAKER_03: what CBPN was really,
11:46
SPEAKER_03: really awesome because I,
11:48
and I actually find my favorite bits of CBPN is actually when
11:51
just John and Geordie
11:52
SPEAKER_03: go back and forth and they're like,
11:53
SPEAKER_03: have their takes.
11:54
SPEAKER_03: I actually think that is the magic of it.
11:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I think their integration of the timeline is
11:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, that is magical, right?
12:00
SPEAKER_03: That they were the first to even do it.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: And I'm really,
12:03
really glad that they still have that as sort of like a core
12:05
part of their show,
12:06
SPEAKER_03: right?
12:06
Really speaking to their,
12:07
their core early audience,
12:08
if we want to talk about it like that.
12:10
Um,
12:10
and obviously,
12:11
you know,
12:11
I've taken some elements of that again,
12:14
not necessarily timely.
12:15
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm, I might go ahead and pick a topic that I find funny.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Or I find culturally relevant.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: And of course,
12:20
SPEAKER_03: you know,
12:20
SPEAKER_03: that's,
12:20
SPEAKER_03: that's why I'm always trying to say,
12:22
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
12:22
SPEAKER_03: this is San Francisco niche technology culture podcasting,
12:25
SPEAKER_03: right?
12:26
I was trying to make it like the longest run on sort of like
12:29
sentence descriptor possible.
12:31
SPEAKER_03: But,
12:32
SPEAKER_03: you know,
12:32
SPEAKER_03: I,
12:32
SPEAKER_03: I think,
12:33
SPEAKER_03: you know,
12:33
SPEAKER_03: to,
12:33
SPEAKER_03: to,
12:33
SPEAKER_03: to really talk about that and,
12:35
SPEAKER_03: you know,
12:35
SPEAKER_03: I,
12:35
I'm really just going after like a few thousand people that
12:38
also happened to
12:39
SPEAKER_03: control a large amount of,
12:41
SPEAKER_03: you know,
12:41
SPEAKER_03: just represents a large GDP.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of weird.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: Like you've seen the joke where like oomph is in office,
12:48
SPEAKER_02: you know,
12:49
SPEAKER_02: like when JD Vance became the vice president,
12:51
SPEAKER_02: people were like,
12:51
SPEAKER_02: that's oomph,
12:52
SPEAKER_02: which is one of my followers.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Poster's in control.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Poster's in control, which it's like, it's so funny for us.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: And we were talking about this in the peptides pod.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: It's just sort of like, oh, wow, it feels so funny and stupid.
13:03
I'm going to parties with people and then they're like heads of
13:05
state,
13:06
which is just bizarre.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: But okay, going back to the podcast, what are some topics you've
13:12
SPEAKER_02: dove into in like the niche world of San Francisco.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: So the very first one was San Francisco parties, right?
13:18
It's just like,
13:18
just one that you,
13:19
that's just,
13:20
that is a timeless topic,
13:21
right?
13:21
SPEAKER_03: I say timely nor timeless.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: I would say that that is a timeless topic.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: Again, in a city with about 800,000 people.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: And so,
13:28
SPEAKER_03: you know,
13:28
SPEAKER_03: you've got the stereotypes,
13:29
SPEAKER_03: like,
13:30
SPEAKER_03: you know,
13:30
SPEAKER_03: everybody taking their shoes off,
13:32
SPEAKER_03: right?
13:32
The girls ruining their fits because they like to pair their
13:34
fits with particular shoes.
13:36
Um,
13:36
half empty,
13:37
like sparkling waters,
13:39
like the coil spin drifts,
13:40
nobody really drinking.
13:42
SPEAKER_03: Everybody just kind of asking, what are you building?
13:44
SPEAKER_03: Really just trying to like tap into the stereotypes.
13:47
SPEAKER_03: And of course that was with Madison when she did the enforced ratio part.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: And that's,
13:51
Explain that more because I don't think our audience is going
13:53
to know what enforced ratio is.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's important.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: But please, what was enforced ratio?
13:58
SPEAKER_03: Enforced ratio.
13:59
SPEAKER_03: So it was organized by Madison.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: So she had just moved to the city and,
14:04
SPEAKER_03: you know,
14:05
SPEAKER_03: she had a group chat called the seven girls of SF.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: Obviously,
14:07
SPEAKER_03: like another one of those San Francisco stereotypes is that there are,
14:10
SPEAKER_03: quote unquote,
14:11
SPEAKER_03: no women in SF.
14:12
SPEAKER_03: Now, of course, a bunch of us.
14:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:14
SPEAKER_03: We like to debunk this on the timeline, right?
14:16
SPEAKER_03: The X.com, the everything app timeline all the time.
14:19
SPEAKER_03: Um,
14:20
SPEAKER_03: but it was one of those things in which,
14:21
SPEAKER_03: again,
14:21
SPEAKER_03: you go to a technology-centric party and oftentimes it's like,
14:26
SPEAKER_03: you know,
14:26
SPEAKER_03: the ratio is like nine to one men to women,
14:28
SPEAKER_03: right?
14:29
SPEAKER_03: And then obviously...
14:30
SPEAKER_03: You go even deeper technology,
14:31
SPEAKER_03: mostly male dominated field,
14:32
SPEAKER_03: et cetera,
14:33
SPEAKER_03: et cetera,
14:33
SPEAKER_03: all those sorts of things.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: And so,
14:34
SPEAKER_03: you know,
14:35
SPEAKER_03: Madison tried to buck that trend,
14:37
SPEAKER_03: uh,
14:38
SPEAKER_03: but very,
14:38
SPEAKER_03: very,
14:38
SPEAKER_03: very deliberately by calling it enforced race.
14:41
SPEAKER_03: And so that's what she did.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: She enforced a 50 ratio, carefully calibrated, uh, and
14:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it ended up being really, really cool.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I think that legacy kind of lives on, right?
14:52
It's like,
14:53
and now like the seven girls of SF has become a meme of its
14:56
own,
14:56
right?
14:56
SPEAKER_03: It's like just a big group chat of all the girls.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, not all the girls, probably a couple of hundred.
15:01
Again,
15:01
Madison can speak to that a little better than I can because
15:03
I'm not in the group chat.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: I think one of my signals is in that group chat.
15:09
SPEAKER_03: One of your signals.
15:10
SPEAKER_03: One of my signals.
15:10
SPEAKER_03: One of my military-grade encrypted accounts.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: Exactly, to talk to girls in San Francisco.
15:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what I need actually too.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like the parties thing I find really fascinating.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: I guess I wanted to dive into that a little bit more.
15:23
You also make great content about these parties because you did
15:28
the all girls and
15:29
SPEAKER_02: just you and Theo.
15:31
SPEAKER_03: I wish I did that.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: I must say, okay, I've got to add a disclaimer.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: Please.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: So Madison wanted for that to happen.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: She messaged me so it would be really, really funny.
15:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: It would be very, very funny.
15:44
Um,
15:44
and I just kind of like made as like many sort of cautions as,
15:48
as possible.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: I was like, just, you know, check with everybody.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: If you want me to come, I'll come.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: Obviously I don't want to be,
15:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to be intruding on a space,
15:54
SPEAKER_03: all those sorts of things,
15:55
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
15:57
SPEAKER_03: ended up being there.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: And it was hilarious.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: I,
16:00
SPEAKER_03: I,
16:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad it was,
16:01
SPEAKER_03: you know,
16:01
SPEAKER_02: I feel like,
16:02
SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's,
16:02
SPEAKER_03: it's one of those things in which,
16:04
SPEAKER_03: uh,
16:04
SPEAKER_03: I,
16:05
SPEAKER_03: I've,
16:05
SPEAKER_03: uh,
16:06
SPEAKER_03: I've tried to be very,
16:06
very careful.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: It's like just playing into like the, you know, I'm terrified of women.
16:11
It's like,
16:11
how do they let me in all these sorts of things,
16:13
but very,
16:14
very funny.
16:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, turns out it was really great for my career.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:17
SPEAKER_03: So we take, we take the wins.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: The wins.
16:20
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but yeah, very, very timeline native.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, we'll see if that bit lives on.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, you've lived many other places.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: You are a very storied 27-year-old man, honestly.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: So what makes San Francisco parties so unique and weird?
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Or are we just in a bubble and we think we're so important?
16:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, what makes it so sort of bizarre?
16:41
SPEAKER_03: No, I think it's weird.
16:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:42
SPEAKER_03: No, I think it's totally weird.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: I think it's like,
16:44
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
16:45
SPEAKER_03: again,
16:45
SPEAKER_03: I think the,
16:46
SPEAKER_03: obviously like the,
16:48
SPEAKER_03: I think especially the ones that we find ourselves,
16:50
SPEAKER_03: right?
16:51
If we're going to sort of like stand on it,
16:52
like,
16:52
like sit on our high horse for a second.
16:54
You know,
16:54
those that are,
16:55
especially those that are all like very Twitter native.
16:58
SPEAKER_03: Again,
16:58
SPEAKER_03: it is,
16:59
SPEAKER_03: I would say the,
16:59
SPEAKER_03: the,
16:59
SPEAKER_03: the,
17:00
SPEAKER_03: the,
17:00
SPEAKER_03: the Twitter circle is a bit more of a bubble than necessarily,
17:03
SPEAKER_01: uh,
17:03
SPEAKER_03: say the whole of SF,
17:05
SPEAKER_03: right?
17:05
SPEAKER_03: Because again, we've, we've got like,
17:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's going to be sort of like the same 50 to a hundred people.
17:10
And kind of,
17:11
like you said,
17:11
there might be some people that are actually kind of important.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they're actually talking to heads of state or,
17:16
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:17
SPEAKER_03: they're,
17:17
SPEAKER_03: they have,
17:18
SPEAKER_03: uh,
17:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:18
SPEAKER_03: they've already had like three or four exits,
17:20
SPEAKER_03: uh,
17:21
SPEAKER_03: or,
17:21
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:21
SPEAKER_03: it's just.
17:22
people with a few hundred thousand followers on X and they
17:25
might go ahead and say
17:26
something that's to do with that particular event and then
17:28
other people that were
17:29
SPEAKER_03: there.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: And it's just like,
17:30
SPEAKER_03: we,
17:31
like the people that we end up hanging out with at these
17:33
particular events,
17:34
SPEAKER_03: they have like this pull on the timeline,
17:36
SPEAKER_03: this cultural pull.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, and again, it sort of comes back to that, that, that audience, right?
17:40
SPEAKER_03: It's like that audience captures like,
17:41
SPEAKER_03: okay,
17:42
SPEAKER_03: well maybe they're only speaking to a few thousand people,
17:45
SPEAKER_03: um,
17:46
SPEAKER_03: or a few thousand people,
17:47
SPEAKER_03: uh,
17:48
SPEAKER_03: will,
17:48
SPEAKER_03: will only get it.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: But
17:49
SPEAKER_03: But those few thousand people,
17:50
SPEAKER_03: they tend to be pretty wealthy and they tend to be making decisions.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: And so with all that, you have kind of like neuroticism.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:58
SPEAKER_03: Maybe some autism.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's sort of like a buzz term now, I think.
18:01
SPEAKER_03: Like everyone's autistic now.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: Or self-proclaimed autistic.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: More importantly.
18:08
Uh,
18:08
but you know,
18:08
you end up,
18:09
you end up with some interesting characters,
18:11
right?
18:11
SPEAKER_03: It's like maybe those that are,
18:13
SPEAKER_03: uh,
18:13
SPEAKER_03: not so great with,
18:15
SPEAKER_03: with,
18:15
SPEAKER_03: with,
18:15
SPEAKER_03: with social cues,
18:16
SPEAKER_03: uh,
18:17
SPEAKER_03: or,
18:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
18:18
SPEAKER_03: all of those different things,
18:19
SPEAKER_03: the shoes off,
18:20
SPEAKER_03: all of those different stereotypes.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: So I know, I think it is, I think it is particularly weird.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: Oh, another one, uh, is the themed parties.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: Like the peptide ray.
18:28
Like,
18:28
um,
18:29
you know,
18:29
I,
18:29
I have friends that are throwing like fruit themed parties.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, the Kiwi party.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Were you at the Kiwi party?
18:35
SPEAKER_03: Got dragged on the timeline.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it did.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: I was only there briefly.
18:38
So for an explanation,
18:39
I'm trying to decide if we can say whose party it was.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Did Dylan Patel tweet about it?
18:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, editors.
18:48
So we were at a party at Dylan Patel's house,
18:51
which is also Jorkesh and Sholto's.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: These are
18:53
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:54
SPEAKER_02: AI people,
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Twitter people in the space,
18:56
SPEAKER_02: and they have this very nice house,
18:57
SPEAKER_02: and they threw this party that was Kiwi-themed,
18:59
SPEAKER_02: and it got dragged on the timeline because people were like,
19:02
SPEAKER_02: this is for toddlers,
19:03
SPEAKER_02: right,
19:03
SPEAKER_01: people?
19:04
SPEAKER_02: I saw it, and I was like, my God.
19:06
Once it escapes containment out of our little bubble,
19:09
people are like,
19:09
what the fuck?
19:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh!
19:10
SPEAKER_02: Another one,
19:11
SPEAKER_02: performative coding at the bar,
19:13
SPEAKER_02: performative,
19:14
SPEAKER_02: doing math at the party on that little sheet of paper.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: Once that escapes containment, that's what people think we are.
19:19
And you get the classic,
19:20
you know,
19:21
the classic quote tweet dunk of nuke San Francisco.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
19:24
SPEAKER_03: It happens over and over again.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: And so,
19:27
SPEAKER_03: you know,
19:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
19:28
that seems to be the sentiment when these sorts of things
19:31
escape containment.
19:33
But,
19:34
you know,
19:36
every single time we seem to just find a way to make it kind of
19:38
weird.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: But I don't know.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: I have a good time.
19:41
I mean,
19:41
I spend a lot of time on mots sort of,
19:43
you know,
19:43
either maybe slightly dunking.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: But I do remember actually vehemently defending the Kiwi parties.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: Right?
19:50
SPEAKER_03: Because I was like, wow, like people seem to be going unreasonably hard.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: I think it was an easy dunk.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: Very much so.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: I personally,
19:59
having been to a bunch of these things ranging from really
20:03
fucking weird to just
20:04
SPEAKER_02: sort of someone doing math in a corner or Legos or whatever.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: What I wouldn't give.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: I find it really endearing.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: I think that people really mean well.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I take that over like some sort of LA influencer kind of Hollywood vibes.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: That's the sort of range in my head.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, there's like this very endearing energy.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: And these people also tend to be building really weird shit.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: There's biotech, AI, robotics, all sorts of stuff.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: And they love to talk about it.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: And yeah,
20:34
it's just a different scene now than perhaps someone who's
20:37
listening who lived here
20:38
SPEAKER_02: 10 years ago,
20:39
SPEAKER_02: which was like,
20:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
20:41
SPEAKER_02: some dot-com bubble burst.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was here during the cloud time.
20:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, even, you know, just pre-COVID, right?
20:49
It's like I was living sort of like in that mid-market corridor
20:52
near where the
20:52
SPEAKER_03: Twitter headquarters used to be,
20:54
SPEAKER_03: right?
20:54
SPEAKER_03: Uber, Square, Dolby is still there, I think.
20:58
SPEAKER_03: And it's just like...
21:00
Obviously,
21:00
I was at art school,
21:01
so everything kind of felt all fresh and whatever.
21:04
SPEAKER_03: But basically, it kind of felt box-like.
21:08
It was the same sort of thing with the prompt engineers a
21:10
couple of years ago where
21:11
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
21:12
SPEAKER_03: oh,
21:12
SPEAKER_03: if you become good at prompting,
21:14
SPEAKER_03: you can go ahead and make like 300K at,
21:16
SPEAKER_03: say,
21:16
SPEAKER_03: XLab or whatever.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: Um,
21:18
SPEAKER_03: but it was a similar sort of thing in the cloud time where it's like,
21:20
SPEAKER_03: oh,
21:20
SPEAKER_03: you know,
21:21
SPEAKER_03: if you just learn how to engineer the cloud or some shit,
21:24
SPEAKER_03: you become a cloud guy.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: You can go ahead and make 300k at Google, right?
21:28
SPEAKER_03: There were like courses on like cloud or cloud engineering.
21:32
Um,
21:32
and you know,
21:33
like,
21:33
like sales,
21:33
like,
21:33
like dream force was like the hot thing.
21:35
SPEAKER_03: And you know,
21:36
like there's sort of like these like middle level executives
21:38
walking around and
21:39
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
21:39
SPEAKER_03: it was very,
21:40
SPEAKER_03: it felt very,
21:41
SPEAKER_03: very stale.
21:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I, I, I, you know, I,
21:44
SPEAKER_03: I would say that now feels much, much more exciting, right?
21:47
SPEAKER_03: Like the AI thing, I don't know.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: It seems like there's optimism in the AI.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: Obviously,
21:50
SPEAKER_03: you know,
21:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to much more events than I was when I was in art school,
21:53
SPEAKER_03: but at the same time,
21:54
SPEAKER_03: right?
21:55
It's like,
21:55
I think,
21:56
you know,
21:56
to even bring it back to the parties,
21:57
right?
21:57
SPEAKER_03: It's like, everybody's doing some cool thing.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: A lot of,
22:01
SPEAKER_03: a lot of the people tend to be,
22:02
SPEAKER_03: you know,
22:03
SPEAKER_03: wealthy or even those that are,
22:05
SPEAKER_03: that are unemployed.
22:05
SPEAKER_03: Again, it's sort of like what we spoke about on MOTS, right?
22:08
SPEAKER_03: It's like, it's more like, oh, congratulations, you're unemployed, right?
22:10
SPEAKER_03: It's not like a, like this...
22:12
SPEAKER_03: bad thing.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, you must be exploring something.
22:15
SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, what are you, like, what are you checking out?
22:17
SPEAKER_03: What are you thinking next?
22:18
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
22:19
SPEAKER_03: you know,
22:19
SPEAKER_03: everybody's either wealthy or unemployed or,
22:22
SPEAKER_03: but,
22:22
SPEAKER_03: but I guess where I'm going with this is like,
22:24
SPEAKER_03: no one really has anything to prove,
22:26
SPEAKER_03: at least,
22:26
SPEAKER_03: at least at the events that I try to go to.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:30
Maybe it might be different if you go to some,
22:31
like,
22:32
corporate Luma thing.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the corporate Luma thing.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: That's also,
22:35
SPEAKER_02: like,
22:36
it's so funny because I'm thinking of all the niche bullshit
22:38
that I would love to
22:39
SPEAKER_02: explain.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: The Luma versus Partyful.
22:42
Partyful invites,
22:43
they tend to be more fun,
22:44
and Luma invites are corporate.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: The peptide rave was a Luma invite and Burb,
22:51
SPEAKER_02: the host,
22:51
SPEAKER_02: she was getting dragged for it on the timeline.
22:54
She's like,
22:54
I couldn't,
22:55
you know,
22:55
do this many people with a party full and blah,
22:57
blah,
22:57
blah.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: It was very funny.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: So it's just like sort of niche stuff like that that make up this town.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And you skipped town from the pandemic era, right?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:07
SPEAKER_03: So I was, I, I left right at the end of 2020.
23:09
SPEAKER_03: So I actually, I was here sort of for the brunt of it, right.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: You know,
23:12
SPEAKER_03: uh,
23:13
SPEAKER_03: and yeah,
23:14
SPEAKER_03: like ended up,
23:15
SPEAKER_03: ended up going back to Australia for a little bit and sort of,
23:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
23:17
SPEAKER_03: spent a few years spending more time in,
23:19
SPEAKER_03: in Sydney,
23:20
SPEAKER_03: Australia than San Francisco.
23:22
SPEAKER_03: But I,
23:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
23:22
SPEAKER_03: I think,
23:23
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
23:23
I managed to spend enough time in the city to sort of really
23:26
see this sort of AI
23:27
SPEAKER_03: wave bubble,
23:28
SPEAKER_03: whatever you want to call it.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: Really come of age.
23:31
SPEAKER_03: I really thought like 2022 was, was particularly interesting.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: Sort of like that, that, that pre-Chachi-BT era.
23:36
SPEAKER_03: Cause I think you had to be,
23:37
you had to be a little strange to have stuck through San
23:40
Francisco through that
23:41
SPEAKER_03: period.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
23:41
You know,
23:42
there,
23:42
there was some,
23:43
you know,
23:43
there was some,
23:43
there was just interesting times.
23:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
23:45
SPEAKER_03: Every time that we live in,
23:46
SPEAKER_03: it seems to be interesting times now,
23:47
SPEAKER_03: but,
23:48
SPEAKER_03: but that time in particular where the city really felt,
23:50
SPEAKER_03: uh,
23:51
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, just down and out.
23:54
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
23:54
SPEAKER_03: 2021 felt down and out.
23:55
SPEAKER_03: Even a lot of 2022, the city felt down and out.
23:59
SPEAKER_03: So yeah,
23:59
SPEAKER_03: for you to stick around San Francisco,
24:01
SPEAKER_03: you had to chip on your shoulder,
24:03
SPEAKER_03: be a little strange.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: I moved here in 2021.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Pretty strange.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty strange.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: I think like, yeah, it is different.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: I was young.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, I had just turned 23 and, you know, it was COVID times.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: I didn't really know much else could happen.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: People were always complaining that there wasn't any parties anymore.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't know.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is just, this is life now.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: But now it really does.
24:29
It feels like there's multiple party falls every weekend,
24:32
all the time,
24:32
constantly.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: And,
24:35
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
24:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
24:36
SPEAKER_02: you've bounced in and out of San Francisco,
24:38
SPEAKER_02: but I really feel like no one understands it.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to say you take it seriously, but you do, like, sort of.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, it's my full-time job, whether you want to call what I do a job.
24:47
SPEAKER_03: It's my full-time job.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: I know I have to.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: It's like I've tied myself to the timeline in this city.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't know whether that's a good thing.
24:55
will i enjoy it but i think like that's my pet niche which is
25:00
sort of documenting
25:01
the weirdness of this time and i can never tell if it's like
25:04
i'm on my high horse
25:05
and it's not that interesting but then you're in the new yorker
25:08
you're in the new
25:08
york times all this weird stuff like people actually want to
25:11
know and i'm curious
25:13
like what's the weirdest party what's the weirdest gossip like
25:16
what's the weird
25:17
SPEAKER_02: true weird shit you've seen and it can't be peptides unfortunately
25:19
SPEAKER_03: I know.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: Well, it's the first one that comes to mind, really.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: It was good.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: God, it's such a good question.
25:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
25:27
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:28
SPEAKER_03: I think there's like a lot of really easy ones where,
25:30
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:31
SPEAKER_03: maybe you get into like,
25:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
25:32
SPEAKER_03: the polyamory stuff or whatever.
25:36
SPEAKER_03: But even then, like, I feel I'm so far removed even from that.
25:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean...
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Not a rationalist.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: They're going to come after me,
25:41
SPEAKER_03: but I feel like that's more of an East Bay thing,
25:43
SPEAKER_03: Berkeley thing.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
25:45
SPEAKER_03: Not really my thing.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, I, I don't know.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: It's,
25:49
SPEAKER_03: it really is so hard for me to go past the peptide thing because,
25:52
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:52
SPEAKER_03: I,
25:52
SPEAKER_03: I,
25:53
SPEAKER_03: I was sort of a part of those conversations even before say July 4th,
25:56
SPEAKER_03: right?
25:56
SPEAKER_03: Which is what,
25:57
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:57
SPEAKER_03: Jasmine and I spoke about,
25:58
SPEAKER_03: obviously what,
25:59
SPEAKER_03: what Jasmine,
25:59
SPEAKER_03: uh,
26:00
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:00
SPEAKER_03: wrote about in,
26:01
SPEAKER_03: in the New York Times.
26:02
Um,
26:03
and you know,
26:03
I think,
26:04
I do feel like that will continue to get weirder.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: I do think it will continue to get weirder.
26:10
Just because it's like,
26:10
you know,
26:10
we're,
26:11
we're always looking for shortcuts in Silicon Valley.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: We're always looking for shortcuts.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: We like, we believe in like that magic pill, right?
26:16
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
26:17
SPEAKER_03: like,
26:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:17
SPEAKER_03: so many people here have grown up,
26:19
SPEAKER_03: uh,
26:19
SPEAKER_03: or,
26:19
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:20
SPEAKER_03: and continue to read,
26:21
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:21
SPEAKER_03: the sci-fi stories,
26:22
SPEAKER_03: all of these sorts of things.
26:24
SPEAKER_03: Um,
26:24
SPEAKER_03: I do think,
26:24
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:25
SPEAKER_03: I think on that,
26:26
SPEAKER_03: I,
26:26
SPEAKER_03: I've always thought that the whole discourse around the,
26:29
SPEAKER_03: the,
26:29
SPEAKER_03: the AI thing to be really,
26:31
SPEAKER_03: really strange,
26:32
SPEAKER_03: that's where I feel like it is a bubble.
26:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_03: And I've been thinking about it like a lot recently because,
26:36
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:36
SPEAKER_03: obviously going back to Sydney,
26:38
SPEAKER_03: Australia,
26:38
SPEAKER_03: especially a place like Bondi Beach,
26:40
SPEAKER_03: for example,
26:40
SPEAKER_03: it's just like the hottest people in the world.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:42
SPEAKER_03: And they all tend to be like relatively successful.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, Sydney, it's an expensive place, right?
26:47
SPEAKER_03: You've got to be doing something to stay afloat in Sydney.
26:51
Um,
26:52
but you know,
26:52
it's not like,
26:53
you know,
26:53
Claude Code is AGI,
26:54
like no,
26:54
no one cares.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:55
SPEAKER_03: No one cares.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: Like, right.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: They're like going to the beach.
26:58
SPEAKER_03: They're jacked, like super, super fit.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, they might be like working kind of like big four.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they're like a lawyer or a doctor or something.
27:06
Um,
27:07
but like there is,
27:08
there is no,
27:09
no such thing as like Claude Code is AGI.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:11
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:11
There's no such thing as like,
27:12
oh yeah,
27:13
permanent underclass in two years.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, that is what feels like the bubble here.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: And, and, you know, I, I always like...
27:20
SPEAKER_03: I always think about how these labs especially have like,
27:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:24
SPEAKER_03: whether it be like marketing themselves,
27:25
SPEAKER_03: like the AI leaders coming out and saying like,
27:27
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:27
SPEAKER_03: one to five years,
27:28
SPEAKER_03: everybody's like 20% unemployment.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: That's what Dario has been saying along those lines.
27:33
SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, Sam Altman posting the Death Star.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: And then obviously all the,
27:36
SPEAKER_03: all the rhetoric in San Francisco,
27:38
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:38
SPEAKER_03: whether it be like,
27:39
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:39
SPEAKER_03: groups of researchers,
27:40
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:40
SPEAKER_03: I hang out with lots of research friends.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: We have lots of researcher friends who are at these labs.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: Um,
27:45
SPEAKER_03: and you know,
27:45
SPEAKER_03: like,
27:46
SPEAKER_03: I think,
27:46
SPEAKER_03: I think they're,
27:47
SPEAKER_03: they're honest and I think,
27:48
SPEAKER_03: and I do think they're all like doing their life's work,
27:51
SPEAKER_03: but I do wonder how productive it is to sort of be talking like that,
27:54
SPEAKER_03: whether it's like,
27:55
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:55
SPEAKER_03: where there's an agenda behind it,
27:56
SPEAKER_03: you know,
27:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't necessarily want to like lay claim to that,
27:58
SPEAKER_03: but that to me has always felt like the weirdest thing.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: Because I just don't think that that's how the real world works.
28:04
I just think the real world always takes a really,
28:06
really long time to catch up.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:08
SPEAKER_03: And things don't happen, you know, like that.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:11
SPEAKER_03: So a bit of a tangent,
28:13
SPEAKER_03: but I think aside from peptides,
28:14
SPEAKER_03: that's always the thing that I'm thinking about is like,
28:17
SPEAKER_03: how far off the rails have we gone here?
28:20
SPEAKER_03: And maybe I'm wrong.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'm wrong and everything changes in six months and like,
28:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
28:24
SPEAKER_03: we're properly unemployed.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: Fermanent underclass.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: We have podcasts or some shit.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: Could happen, but.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
28:30
SPEAKER_02: I,
28:31
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:31
SPEAKER_02: in my slight doom era,
28:33
SPEAKER_02: I was quite concerned about the automation of the workforce.
28:36
And I think that's something that's really escaped containment
28:39
because it's talked
28:39
SPEAKER_02: about by these leaders on world stages.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: Constantly.
28:43
SPEAKER_03: Is this still happening right now?
28:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: Check the timeline.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: They're going to be tweeting about it.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: I met Matt Damon.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: But I think like that is sort of like what you're speaking to.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you experienced this.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Once you leave the bubble, people are like, is AI going to kill us?
29:01
SPEAKER_02: That's something I get all the time.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Once I leave the bubble, is it going to kill us?
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Is it going to take our jobs?
29:05
SPEAKER_02: And it's sort of like,
29:07
SPEAKER_02: you know,
29:07
SPEAKER_02: a Will DePue tweet making it to my grandpa's phone for some reason.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, dude, I don't it.
29:14
It continues to shock me how much this little bubble impacts
29:17
the rest of the world.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: So,
29:20
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
29:20
I think that the permanent underclass thing was a perfect thing
29:23
for The New Yorker
29:23
SPEAKER_02: to write about because it's a really great joke,
29:27
SPEAKER_02: really great bit.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: But, man, things are weird.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: They continue to get weirder.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: We got Claude Cowork now.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
29:33
And,
29:33
you know,
29:34
and the resurgence of the permanent underclass thing,
29:36
right?
29:36
SPEAKER_03: Because it's kind of like every,
29:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
29:38
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:38
SPEAKER_03: I don't necessarily want to put a time period on it because I do think,
29:41
SPEAKER_03: I do think 2025 felt,
29:43
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:43
SPEAKER_03: there was some cynicism starting to creep in,
29:45
SPEAKER_03: right?
29:45
SPEAKER_03: There was, there was some, there were, there were doubters, right?
29:48
There were,
29:48
you know,
29:49
like we,
29:49
from the,
29:50
from the crypto era,
29:50
there's some FUD.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_03: Fear, uncertainty, doubt.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh,
29:54
SPEAKER_03: and,
29:55
SPEAKER_03: and,
29:55
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:55
SPEAKER_03: obviously Claude,
29:57
SPEAKER_03: Claude Code,
29:58
SPEAKER_03: uh,
29:58
SPEAKER_03: Claude Opus 4.5 and Claude Code being AGI,
30:01
SPEAKER_03: you know,
30:02
SPEAKER_03: people not being able to shut up about it.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, shut up, babe.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: You know,
30:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm just vibe coding my,
30:06
SPEAKER_03: my,
30:06
SPEAKER_03: you know,
30:07
SPEAKER_03: one person,
30:07
SPEAKER_03: $1 billion B2B SaaS app,
30:09
SPEAKER_03: you know,
30:09
SPEAKER_03: we can do that now,
30:10
SPEAKER_03: uh,
30:10
SPEAKER_03: or something.
30:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:12
And it's like,
30:12
you know,
30:12
that it's,
30:13
it's just another,
30:14
yet another step change.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, odds are that, you know, the rhetoric ends up dying down.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: People get used to it.
30:20
Uh,
30:20
you know,
30:20
obviously TBPN,
30:21
you know,
30:21
they famously have the goalposts now.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: The goalpost prop.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: So the goalposts continue to get moved.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: AGI, the definition changes.
30:29
And then we all go back to sort of being a little bit cynical,
30:32
fear,
30:32
uncertainty,
30:33
or whatever.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: It does feel like a, you know, continuing cycle, right?
30:38
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
30:38
SPEAKER_03: and then,
30:38
SPEAKER_03: you know,
30:39
like fucking Deloitte or somebody will go ahead and add 3% to
30:41
their headcount.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like, oh, cool.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: Well, we've expanded the Deloitte headcount.
30:46
SPEAKER_03: Everybody was saying that they were going to be automated.
30:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, no, they're just consulting on AI projects now, right?
30:51
SPEAKER_03: And they need more because some Fortune 500 CEO has been,
30:55
SPEAKER_03: or some Fortune 500 board has been like,
30:58
SPEAKER_03: cool,
30:58
SPEAKER_03: we need to do the AI thing.
31:00
SPEAKER_03: Let's get in KPMG.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: Let's get Accenture to do it.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: And so, I don't know, this is, this is my cynicism starting to creep out.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: Um,
31:08
SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
31:09
SPEAKER_03: I,
31:10
SPEAKER_03: I am,
31:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm actually just concerned that,
31:12
SPEAKER_03: you know,
31:12
SPEAKER_03: you're going to have both sides of,
31:13
SPEAKER_03: especially in the US,
31:15
you're going to have both sides of the government really
31:16
railing against AI and
31:17
SPEAKER_03: technology.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
31:18
Just because I just don't think we in Silicon Valley are doing
31:20
a good enough job of
31:21
SPEAKER_03: conveying it to the lay person.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: We're getting pretty technical.
31:24
SPEAKER_03: Look at us.
31:26
God forbid,
31:27
God forbid a niche San Francisco technology podcaster have a
31:30
take.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Good for you for having a take.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: And you're really entering media at a time where permanent underclass,
31:39
SPEAKER_02: you could be totally fucked with me.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Which is great.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: I could think of worse things.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: Worse people to be screwed with.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank God.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: I need some buddies out here.
31:49
Since day one,
31:50
the Core Memory podcast has been supported by the fine people
31:54
at E1 Ventures.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: They are a young and ambitious VC firm in Silicon Valley,
31:59
SPEAKER_00: investing in young and ambitious companies and people.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much to E1 Ventures for all your support.
32:06
You know,
32:07
new media is sort of this fuzzy term in San Francisco right
32:10
now.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: We have the YC new media, A16Z new media.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Everything's new media.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: And you were just adopted into the first class, right, of A16Z new media.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: It was so funny seeing that list.
32:23
I was talking to a girlfriend because I saw like someone I know
32:27
from opening eye
32:27
SPEAKER_02: comms,
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Logan Kilpatrick on the Gemini team.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: I was like, what actually is this?
32:33
SPEAKER_02: So can you tell us why you applied, what this even is, all that?
32:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:38
So,
32:38
I mean,
32:39
obviously like my,
32:40
my selling point with that is Brent and Eric,
32:42
right.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: Obviously like Brett and the Yang and Eric Torenberg,
32:45
SPEAKER_03: um,
32:45
SPEAKER_03: those who are sort of spearheading this effort at A16Z,
32:48
SPEAKER_03: of course,
32:49
SPEAKER_03: you know,
32:49
SPEAKER_03: Brent did God's work at TBPN as well.
32:51
Like really,
32:52
really,
32:52
I do think,
32:53
I do think they are some of the best to do it.
32:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so yeah, my, my thing was like, oh cool.
32:58
SPEAKER_03: They're doing a thing.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: will probably be good.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: And it's as simple as that for me.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: I think,
33:03
SPEAKER_03: um,
33:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
33:04
SPEAKER_03: like it's,
33:04
SPEAKER_03: it's funny because yeah,
33:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
33:06
SPEAKER_03: I saw the list too and I was like,
33:07
SPEAKER_03: wow,
33:07
SPEAKER_03: like you're putting me with these guys.
33:10
SPEAKER_03: This guy runs Gemini.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: Like you sound like.
33:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm just the guy that,
33:14
SPEAKER_03: like,
33:15
SPEAKER_03: well,
33:15
now has been posting girlfriend posts who doesn't have a
33:17
girlfriend on the
33:18
SPEAKER_03: timeline.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Great bit.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, it's like, is this technology?
33:21
SPEAKER_03: I don't really know.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: But,
33:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
33:24
SPEAKER_03: I think what it really feels like is sort of,
33:27
SPEAKER_03: again,
33:27
SPEAKER_03: kind of what we've been talking about,
33:28
SPEAKER_03: right,
33:28
SPEAKER_03: is like those with some sort of cultural pull and sort of trying to...
33:34
SPEAKER_03: collate them, right?
33:35
SPEAKER_03: Collate them into some sort of cohort, right?
33:36
SPEAKER_03: You know, um, talk about this sort of stuff.
33:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
33:39
SPEAKER_03: obviously they,
33:39
SPEAKER_03: they're making the joke where it's like,
33:40
SPEAKER_03: okay,
33:41
SPEAKER_03: the fellowship for the terminal online.
33:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I've sort of been making that joke too.
33:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:45
Um,
33:45
but yeah,
33:45
no,
33:45
I'm,
33:46
I'm just really,
33:46
I'm,
33:47
I'm really excited to just kind of,
33:48
well,
33:49
Communicate and collaborate with,
33:51
uh,
33:51
with those that are in the same spaces as me,
33:54
really.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Um,
33:54
SPEAKER_03: and I do think,
33:55
SPEAKER_03: I do think,
33:55
SPEAKER_03: uh,
33:56
SPEAKER_03: a lot of,
33:56
SPEAKER_03: a lot of companies,
33:57
SPEAKER_03: a lot of,
33:58
SPEAKER_03: you know,
33:58
SPEAKER_03: even companies that,
33:59
SPEAKER_03: uh,
33:59
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:00
SPEAKER_03: that I work with,
34:01
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:01
SPEAKER_03: even,
34:01
SPEAKER_03: even outside of Mott,
34:02
SPEAKER_03: right.
34:03
SPEAKER_03: Or, or even, you know, some of the Mott sponsors, right.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: Um,
34:06
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:06
SPEAKER_03: they,
34:07
SPEAKER_03: they,
34:07
SPEAKER_03: they want to work with me because they're taking X,
34:09
SPEAKER_03: X.com,
34:10
SPEAKER_03: the everything app,
34:11
SPEAKER_03: super seriously,
34:12
SPEAKER_03: right?
34:12
SPEAKER_03: It's becoming,
34:12
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:13
SPEAKER_03: as much as we all have our critiques of the algorithm,
34:16
SPEAKER_03: I tend to prefer,
34:18
SPEAKER_03: um,
34:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:18
SPEAKER_03: a lot of what,
34:19
SPEAKER_03: what Twitter or X was as opposed to now.
34:22
SPEAKER_03: But in terms of,
34:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:24
SPEAKER_03: releasing your product,
34:25
SPEAKER_03: right,
34:25
SPEAKER_03: if you're a tech company,
34:26
SPEAKER_03: releasing a product,
34:27
SPEAKER_03: um,
34:27
SPEAKER_03: if you're a tech company selling to other tech companies,
34:30
if you're somebody who wants to quote unquote build in public
34:33
or whatever the hell
34:34
SPEAKER_03: we call that now,
34:35
SPEAKER_03: um,
34:35
SPEAKER_03: It's still a really,
34:36
SPEAKER_03: really good place to do so,
34:38
SPEAKER_03: especially if you're going for other people in tech.
34:41
SPEAKER_03: Right.
34:41
I think,
34:42
you know,
34:42
if you're,
34:42
if you're selling to like a business,
34:44
right.
34:44
If you're going for some brick and mortar mom and pop
34:46
businesses or whatever,
34:47
SPEAKER_03: maybe you're selling to,
34:48
SPEAKER_03: maybe you're selling to some like middle,
34:50
SPEAKER_03: middle manager at a,
34:51
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:52
SPEAKER_03: at a,
34:52
SPEAKER_03: at a,
34:52
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
34:53
SPEAKER_03: At a slightly larger company,
34:55
SPEAKER_03: they're probably not spending much time on X.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: They're probably spending more time on LinkedIn.
34:58
But the cool people seem to still be on X.
35:01
And I do think that's what this effort is about.
35:03
It's like,
35:04
okay,
35:04
well,
35:05
all of these companies,
35:06
A6 and Z portcos,
35:08
you know,
35:08
and beyond,
35:09
right?
35:09
They're taking X more seriously because they realize that is a
35:11
viable channel in
35:13
SPEAKER_03: order to go after other people in tech,
35:16
SPEAKER_03: other tech companies,
35:17
SPEAKER_03: tech startups as well.
35:18
yeah so you know we both have friends uh properly working yc
35:22
and a16z new media and
35:25
i've asked multiple times what they actually do and i've been
35:27
told i've been told
35:29
and i still don't think i know what they do so you're gonna
35:34
share portco stuff like
35:36
SPEAKER_02: how does this work do you even know yet so fresh
35:38
Um,
35:39
you know,
35:39
I,
35:39
I think,
35:40
I think it really is just a means of collaboration.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: You know,
35:43
SPEAKER_02: I,
35:43
I think it's just a means of collaboration with those that are
35:45
also on the
35:45
SPEAKER_03: timeline,
35:46
SPEAKER_03: at least to me on the surface,
35:47
SPEAKER_03: that's what it looks like.
35:48
That's honestly as much as I can really say just because I
35:51
don't really know.
35:51
I mean,
35:51
I,
35:52
I do think it does feel to me kind of like what I was saying,
35:54
right?
35:54
SPEAKER_03: It's like, there just seems to be this effort, right?
35:57
SPEAKER_03: Whether it be, um, startups themselves spinning up a media arm.
36:01
SPEAKER_03: I don't think that that's the right way to go, but.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: You know, we, we see it happen all the time.
36:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, or, you know, a VC fund spending, uh, spinning up a media arm, right.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: Like this idea that attention, right.
36:11
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
36:12
SPEAKER_03: like,
36:12
SPEAKER_03: like everybody can build the thing now or,
36:14
SPEAKER_03: you know,
36:15
SPEAKER_03: so people are saying,
36:16
SPEAKER_03: I would still debate that as a,
36:17
SPEAKER_03: as a former engineer,
36:18
SPEAKER_03: uh,
36:18
SPEAKER_03: that I don't think.
36:20
I don't think everybody can vibe code a billion dollar business
36:22
right now with Claude Code.
36:23
SPEAKER_03: I still don't think that is the case.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: You can get a leg up for sure.
36:27
SPEAKER_03: Um,
36:27
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
36:28
SPEAKER_03: the idea that,
36:29
SPEAKER_03: okay,
36:29
SPEAKER_03: well,
36:30
SPEAKER_03: if software is being commoditized,
36:31
SPEAKER_03: if everybody can build this thing,
36:33
SPEAKER_03: then it's going to be about the distribution.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: And so it's just about,
36:36
SPEAKER_03: I think startups now,
36:37
SPEAKER_03: uh,
36:38
SPEAKER_03: VC firms now,
36:39
SPEAKER_03: they're making a bet on X.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: They're making a bet that X is...
36:42
SPEAKER_03: the way to do it if they're selling to other tech companies.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's really what this sort of effort seems to be.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: Right.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: So cool.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: We're just, we're just here riding the wave.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: And as someone who's joined like sort of this new media,
36:55
SPEAKER_02: independent media life,
36:57
SPEAKER_02: I am sort of trying to rack my brain.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: This was also an article,
37:00
SPEAKER_02: if you recall,
37:01
SPEAKER_02: I think it was the journal that was like,
37:03
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:03
SPEAKER_02: hiring journalists as storytellers.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that discourse?
37:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_03: It got shot down so quickly because we just started making fun about it.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: We just started ripping it apart on the timeline.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: Like Storyteller just became,
37:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
37:17
SPEAKER_03: it went from the article to becoming a slur in less than 24 hours.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes, very natural.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: Nobody's heard about it since.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not going to lie,
37:24
SPEAKER_02: I did not read that article,
37:25
SPEAKER_02: but I saw all the worst people in the world.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: Never be caught dead consuming content, only creating it.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: But,
37:35
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:37
SPEAKER_02: this world we're living in,
37:38
SPEAKER_02: the new media world,
37:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to rack my brain for,
37:41
SPEAKER_02: like,
37:42
why this transition happened why people want to own a little
37:45
media arm and i think
37:46
it's like grabbing for that attention seeing these independent
37:49
creators like you
37:51
know on youtube have these big audiences able to tell like a
37:55
very compelling story
37:56
in a way that like traditionally you have to go through rooms
37:58
of comms people and
37:59
then reporters and editors to get like some version of your
38:03
story out so now it's
38:04
SPEAKER_02: like more about owning it i think yes
38:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:07
SPEAKER_03: And I think,
38:07
SPEAKER_03: you know,
38:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
38:08
SPEAKER_03: I'm starting to get into like pseudosciencey kind of stuff,
38:11
SPEAKER_03: but I mean,
38:11
I do think there is a bit of a correlation to sort of like meta
38:14
ads falling off,
38:15
SPEAKER_01: for example,
38:16
SPEAKER_03: in terms of,
38:16
SPEAKER_03: in terms of a strategy for distribution.
38:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, there is just, there's so many software companies now.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: There's so many VC backed software companies now.
38:25
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, and there's so much VC money floating around.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: And so more startups,
38:31
SPEAKER_03: uh,
38:31
SPEAKER_03: more software,
38:32
SPEAKER_03: also a lot of,
38:33
SPEAKER_03: a lot more people willing to pay for software.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:35
I mean,
38:35
which is,
38:35
which is also,
38:36
you know,
38:36
great thing for software companies.
38:37
And so,
38:38
you know,
38:38
I,
38:38
I really do think,
38:39
I mean,
38:40
part of it's just like differentiating yourself.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:43
SPEAKER_03: Um, part of it's attention.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: I think, you know, the whole, the whole clearly thing, right.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we kind of, we kind of saw how that strategy played out.
38:49
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
38:50
SPEAKER_03: it turns out you still do need a,
38:52
SPEAKER_03: a,
38:52
SPEAKER_03: a working product for the attention thing to actually work.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: Um,
38:57
SPEAKER_03: but,
38:57
SPEAKER_03: you know,
38:57
SPEAKER_03: I,
38:58
SPEAKER_03: I think,
38:58
SPEAKER_03: I just think we're still sort of in that,
39:00
SPEAKER_03: in that exploration phase as to like,
39:02
SPEAKER_03: okay,
39:03
SPEAKER_03: well,
39:03
SPEAKER_03: does the startup spinning up the media arm,
39:05
SPEAKER_03: does that work?
39:06
SPEAKER_03: Is that the right way to go?
39:07
SPEAKER_03: Or are we better to, billboards are making a comeback.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: Big comeback, huge comeback.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: And so it's like,
39:13
SPEAKER_03: okay,
39:14
SPEAKER_03: and then what does the pricing look on,
39:16
SPEAKER_03: say,
39:16
SPEAKER_03: like a billboard campaign,
39:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:18
SPEAKER_03: coming from SFO to San Francisco?
39:21
SPEAKER_03: Like, what does that look like?
39:22
SPEAKER_03: Or maybe if we're going after X,
39:24
maybe you end up sponsoring somebody like me who just says a
39:27
bunch of shit online.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: But,
39:29
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:29
SPEAKER_03: like,
39:29
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:30
SPEAKER_03: Dylan Field,
39:30
SPEAKER_03: for example,
39:31
SPEAKER_03: like,
39:31
SPEAKER_03: I'm just listing off one of my best friends.
39:33
You definitely know that he's my best friend because it says
39:35
follows you on X.com
39:36
SPEAKER_03: and everything out.
39:37
SPEAKER_03: That's how you know we're best friends.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: Um,
39:39
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
39:39
SPEAKER_03: like,
39:39
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
39:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
39:40
SPEAKER_03: I,
39:40
SPEAKER_03: I joke,
39:41
SPEAKER_03: but it's like,
39:41
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:42
SPEAKER_03: people like that will follow accounts like me for whatever reason,
39:44
SPEAKER_03: that's their own problem.
39:46
SPEAKER_03: But,
39:46
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
39:47
SPEAKER_03: if,
39:47
SPEAKER_03: if people know that they can get in front of those decision makers,
39:50
SPEAKER_03: maybe part of their budget is better spent with someone like a mot,
39:54
SPEAKER_03: someone like a core memory.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: Something like that.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: And so I do think we're sort of in this like exploration phase.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
40:01
SPEAKER_03: what does,
40:02
what is the most useful attention for us when there are so many
40:05
software companies
40:06
SPEAKER_03: being spent up and so many people willing to actually pay for this stuff?
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: It's like a real attention grab, as you're saying.
40:12
And I'm curious,
40:14
like,
40:14
you're four months now for MOTS,
40:16
which is so strange.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: It feels like it's been so much longer.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: I know.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: You've gotten so much shit done.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Tell me more about building your own new media company in San Francisco.
40:27
SPEAKER_02: Tell me about your guests, how you find topics.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, tell me the process.
40:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean...
40:33
SPEAKER_03: You know,
40:33
SPEAKER_03: I definitely,
40:34
SPEAKER_03: it goes kind of back to,
40:35
SPEAKER_03: you know,
40:36
SPEAKER_03: early conversations that I actually had with Brent and Eric,
40:38
SPEAKER_03: right?
40:38
SPEAKER_03: Again,
40:39
I probably wouldn't have had the stones to even try this if it
40:42
hadn't been for
40:43
SPEAKER_03: people like that pushing me in that direction.
40:45
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, really, really grateful for those early conversations.
40:49
Brent especially was somebody who was like,
40:51
you know,
40:51
he's sort of like...
40:53
SPEAKER_03: I remember we were having dinner at an Indian restaurant just downtown.
40:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh,
40:56
SPEAKER_03: and you know,
40:57
SPEAKER_03: he,
40:58
SPEAKER_03: I said,
40:58
SPEAKER_03: I was like,
40:59
SPEAKER_03: I was like,
40:59
SPEAKER_03: oh,
40:59
like here's what I would do for a show if I were to do a show
41:01
and sort of just like
41:02
SPEAKER_03: told him the,
41:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
41:03
SPEAKER_03: what ended up becoming,
41:04
SPEAKER_03: uh,
41:04
SPEAKER_03: members of technical staff.
41:05
SPEAKER_03: I had the name in mind as well,
41:06
because I just thought it'd be so funny to just call it member
41:08
of technical staff.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: Everybody at AI labs,
41:10
SPEAKER_03: they're called a member of technical staff,
41:12
SPEAKER_03: whether they are actually like a staff engineer or whatever,
41:15
SPEAKER_03: it doesn't matter.
41:15
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like A16Z partners.
41:17
SPEAKER_03: Everybody that works at A16Z is a partner.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Um,
41:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, nothing wrong with that.
41:21
SPEAKER_03: It's just kind of funny to me.
41:23
SPEAKER_03: But basically,
41:24
SPEAKER_03: you know,
41:24
SPEAKER_03: so I gave him that pitch and he's just like,
41:25
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
41:25
SPEAKER_03: I think you should,
41:26
SPEAKER_03: I just think you should do this full time.
41:28
You should do it yourself and you should try and get the first
41:31
thing out in two weeks.
41:33
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, okay.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: Cool.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so, you know, I just, just thought about it.
41:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh, got, got our mutual friend, uh, Lan.
41:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:42
Uh,
41:42
you know,
41:43
as,
41:43
as,
41:43
as the first,
41:44
uh,
41:44
the first MOTS co-host in the first couple of episodes.
41:47
And yeah,
41:48
obviously got to,
41:49
you know,
41:50
locked in like a first presenting sponsor as well.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: You know,
41:52
the cool thing about just like being in the city and just
41:54
having friends did a
41:55
SPEAKER_03: recent episode on just like,
41:57
SPEAKER_03: you know,
41:57
SPEAKER_03: the social scene in San Francisco and how it just,
41:59
SPEAKER_03: it pays to just have friends,
42:00
SPEAKER_03: right.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: Just to be nice to people and not actually ask.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Of anything.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: But I digress.
42:04
Basically,
42:05
you know,
42:06
was able to go to,
42:06
uh,
42:07
you know,
42:07
a company like Inference.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:08
SPEAKER_03: Um,
42:09
SPEAKER_03: and yeah,
42:10
SPEAKER_03: like gave him the pitch,
42:12
SPEAKER_03: said,
42:12
SPEAKER_03: Hey,
42:12
SPEAKER_03: I've been rocking your badge on,
42:14
SPEAKER_03: on Twitter for the last year.
42:16
SPEAKER_03: Just generating them impressions.
42:17
They thought it'd just be funny to give random schizophrenic
42:20
accounts like me a badge.
42:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, and that was a really, really easy sell.
42:23
SPEAKER_03: So they came on and then sure enough, cool.
42:24
SPEAKER_03: Have revenue.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: Great.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: We can, I can start doing this.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: Gave me an excuse to do it full time.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the show topics, basically stuff that I've probably tweeted about.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Tell me more,
42:34
SPEAKER_02: because I really,
42:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
42:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry,
42:36
SPEAKER_02: audience,
42:37
SPEAKER_02: if you do know what we're talking about,
42:38
SPEAKER_02: but I just feel like it's so insular that it's like worth explaining,
42:43
SPEAKER_02: because once it escapes containment,
42:45
SPEAKER_02: we've known for several months.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: So what are some of the topics we're going to see on The New York Times?
42:49
SPEAKER_03: Be careful, I'll stop on my day once.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: As you should.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: I would know.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: As you should.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: One must earn the right.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've earned the right to do that.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh, no, but basically, yeah.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I, I think, yeah, the, I mean, the topics, um,
43:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
43:05
SPEAKER_03: I,
43:05
SPEAKER_03: I,
43:05
SPEAKER_03: I do think it's really just about like,
43:08
SPEAKER_03: uh,
43:08
SPEAKER_03: it's,
43:08
SPEAKER_03: it's really about sort of,
43:10
SPEAKER_03: again,
43:10
SPEAKER_03: not being timely nor timeless.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: It's like something that I have posted about,
43:14
SPEAKER_03: obviously it was,
43:15
SPEAKER_03: it was,
43:15
SPEAKER_03: the peptides thing was a layup for a very,
43:17
SPEAKER_03: very early show.
43:18
The,
43:18
the,
43:18
the San Francisco parties was a layup for a very,
43:20
very early show.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: And then obviously the guests, they just end up being my friends.
43:24
SPEAKER_03: That's the cool thing about it.
43:25
SPEAKER_03: Like, obviously it was really easy to just like, oh, cool.
43:27
SPEAKER_03: Kylie's unemployed.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
43:29
SPEAKER_03: Surely she'll have some time.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
43:31
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
43:32
It's kind of funny because it's actually kind of hard to get a
43:33
hold of you during that time.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: I hate responding to anything ever.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: And meanwhile, now I'm employed slash unemployed podcasting.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Jaden, come on.
43:44
SPEAKER_03: And you're like responding straight away.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: No.
43:47
now that i have a job and i have to look at my phone
43:49
unfortunately yeah yeah very
43:50
unfortunately totally but yeah we talked about unemployment and
43:54
that as a status
43:55
symbol which was something i definitely experienced during that
43:58
unemployment time
43:59
and yeah i think you just tackle some of the stuff of course
44:02
you go through the
44:03
timeline the tweets and tdpn does this too which i just fucking
44:07
love because yeah i
44:08
SPEAKER_02: mean because i'm on twitter too much is really what it is
44:10
SPEAKER_03: Of course, of course.
44:11
SPEAKER_03: And people love having their stuff read.
44:14
SPEAKER_03: You know, I went on a date once.
44:15
SPEAKER_03: I went on a narrative violation.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Narrative violation.
44:18
SPEAKER_03: Who would have thought?
44:21
SPEAKER_03: Maybe cut this one out.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: No,
44:22
SPEAKER_03: basically,
44:22
SPEAKER_03: I do remember going on a date and,
44:24
SPEAKER_03: and,
44:24
SPEAKER_03: uh,
44:25
SPEAKER_03: they were actually going through my favorite tweets,
44:27
SPEAKER_03: right?
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Just in front of me verbatim.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: I was like, what kind of fever dream is this?
44:32
SPEAKER_03: I was like euphoric.
44:33
SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is, this is sick.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was also a little bit cynical.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: I was like, ha ha ha.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: What are you trying to get from me?
44:40
SPEAKER_03: I see what you're doing.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: Like you're doing the exact right things right now.
44:43
SPEAKER_03: You're saying the exact right things.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: I started to get a bit cynical.
44:45
SPEAKER_03: I was like, what are you?
44:47
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, it's an amazing feeling.
44:49
SPEAKER_03: It's an amazing feeling.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: Every single time I get like, you know, even just a mention on TBPN.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
44:55
Like there's just this feeling of euphoria that,
44:57
uh,
44:57
is very,
44:58
very hard to describe.
44:59
SPEAKER_03: And I think,
44:59
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:00
SPEAKER_03: playing into that,
45:00
SPEAKER_03: obviously like TBPN,
45:02
SPEAKER_03: um,
45:02
SPEAKER_03: it is always like very,
45:03
SPEAKER_03: again,
45:03
SPEAKER_03: TBPN,
45:04
SPEAKER_03: they do the timely so well.
45:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
45:06
SPEAKER_03: And then of course, like they're, they're on five days a week.
45:08
SPEAKER_03: They cover, they literally covering, covering the news.
45:10
They were able to get timeline,
45:12
collate timeline reactions according to the,
45:14
to the news.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, whereas, you know, for, for, for months, right.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: It's very, very topical.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: And I can do,
45:20
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:20
I can go through the various Twitter searches and basically
45:23
look up the term that
45:24
SPEAKER_03: I'm wanting.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: Chinese peptides, easy term.
45:26
SPEAKER_03: Plenty of tweets there.
45:28
SPEAKER_03: San Francisco parties, easy term.
45:30
SPEAKER_03: A lot of tweets there.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: I hope to,
45:33
I think the next episode that I'll do will be something along
45:35
the lines of like,
45:36
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:36
SPEAKER_03: the X timeline or the starter packs that came out yesterday.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh, the starter packs.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Please explain the starter pack.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Do we dare explain what teapot is on this podcast?
45:45
goodness gracious yeah this part of twitter yeah i mean i feel
45:49
like i feel like you
45:50
know as much as i've been out around for a little while i'm
45:52
probably not the best
45:53
person to explain it but it did it did start you know come
45:55
around 2021 really right
45:57
SPEAKER_03: you know like another mutual friend brooke bowman right uh
46:01
SPEAKER_03: come up with this concept of like vibe camp and,
46:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
46:04
SPEAKER_03: we sort of had the,
46:04
SPEAKER_03: the sim clusters of Twitter.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: And that's over the last couple of days,
46:07
SPEAKER_03: what people have been yearning for,
46:09
SPEAKER_03: you know,
46:09
SPEAKER_03: like they've been wanting the sim clusters back.
46:12
SPEAKER_03: And I do think the startup acts,
46:14
SPEAKER_03: they're almost like this last ditch effort to sort of revive some of it.
46:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, I think, yeah, Teapot,
46:21
SPEAKER_03: kind of ended up evolving into like,
46:23
SPEAKER_03: like the anonymous accounts of late 2021,
46:25
SPEAKER_03: early 2022,
46:26
SPEAKER_03: where a bunch of us,
46:27
SPEAKER_03: that's when my account came of age.
46:29
SPEAKER_03: Not, not sure I would necessarily classify myself as teapot.
46:32
SPEAKER_03: Obviously go, go all the way back to 2021.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: It was sort of that,
46:35
SPEAKER_03: you know,
46:36
SPEAKER_03: that post rationalist sort of,
46:38
can we just getting into terms where if you were to try to
46:40
explain them to a child
46:41
SPEAKER_03: from the Victorian era,
46:42
SPEAKER_03: they would blow up.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: Just give them a sprite and end it quickly.
46:45
SPEAKER_03: Self-destructs.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: No,
46:46
SPEAKER_02: you're explaining exactly how I would describe it,
46:49
SPEAKER_02: which is a bunch of buzzwords that we both half understand,
46:53
SPEAKER_02: but we know everyone says at these parties.
46:56
Yeah,
46:57
so I would just describe it really as,
46:59
yeah,
46:59
it's a post-rationalist thing.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot more structure and people get very...
47:03
SPEAKER_03: It kind of like goes back to the bloggers, right?
47:05
SPEAKER_03: Like the East Bay bloggers, like Slate Scar Codex, right?
47:09
SPEAKER_03: Scott Alexander, um, those kinds of writers.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: And so,
47:13
SPEAKER_03: you know,
47:13
SPEAKER_03: I really do think that that's probably,
47:15
SPEAKER_03: you know,
47:15
SPEAKER_03: if we were to really trace the etymology back,
47:18
SPEAKER_03: um,
47:18
SPEAKER_03: it really does come back to that sort of like East Bay thing.
47:21
SPEAKER_03: Um,
47:21
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
47:21
SPEAKER_03: again,
47:22
SPEAKER_03: it's hard for me to,
47:22
SPEAKER_03: it's hard for me to really talk about it because I,
47:24
SPEAKER_03: you know,
47:25
SPEAKER_03: I've,
47:25
SPEAKER_03: I've actually never lived in the East Bay.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: I've always been in San Francisco, so.
47:28
yeah no it's definitely a very east bay thing and i just like
47:31
to say it's a bunch
47:32
of shit posters that technically have a lot of influence in
47:36
different ways and uh
47:38
yeah so they released these starter packs and i think one was
47:40
teapot thinkers
47:41
SPEAKER_03: teapot thinkers modern modern day aristotle yes he's growing daniel
47:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
47:48
SPEAKER_03: Rune.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
47:50
A bunch of anon shit posters that Nikita Beer,
47:55
the head of products,
47:57
a.k.a.
47:57
SPEAKER_02: kind of Twitter CEO making these starter packs.
47:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: That's that's something you should cover on your podcast.
48:03
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: I actually want to do this next week.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: If I can get Roon on next week, it'd be perfect.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: But,
48:07
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:07
SPEAKER_03: it's funny,
48:08
SPEAKER_03: like on the Caltrain,
48:09
SPEAKER_03: the way down here,
48:10
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:11
SPEAKER_03: from San Francisco down into the peninsula.
48:13
SPEAKER_03: But basically,
48:14
SPEAKER_03: I was actually...
48:15
SPEAKER_03: I was on a roll,
48:15
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:16
SPEAKER_03: doing like all of these tweets,
48:17
SPEAKER_03: right?
48:17
SPEAKER_03: You'd be able to look at them afterwards, maybe.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: But basically...
48:21
SPEAKER_03: You know,
48:21
SPEAKER_03: just sort of like making the joke where it's like,
48:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:23
SPEAKER_03: on a first date,
48:24
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:24
SPEAKER_03: maybe the date asks like,
48:26
SPEAKER_03: oh,
48:26
SPEAKER_03: um,
48:26
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:27
SPEAKER_03: like,
48:27
SPEAKER_03: like,
48:27
SPEAKER_03: what do you,
48:27
SPEAKER_03: do you like to read?
48:28
SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, of course I like to read.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: It's just like, oh, I'm into, I'm into like Jack Kerouac.
48:32
SPEAKER_03: I love, love poetry.
48:33
SPEAKER_03: Be like,
48:34
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
48:34
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm like a more like modern day thinker kind of guy,
48:37
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:38
SPEAKER_03: guys like,
48:38
SPEAKER_03: uh,
48:38
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:39
SPEAKER_03: like Growing Daniel,
48:40
SPEAKER_03: Arun,
48:41
SPEAKER_03: Squirtle.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:43
SPEAKER_03: Just list off like anonymous accounts.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: I don't understand.
48:47
SPEAKER_03: These are my friends.
48:48
SPEAKER_03: Or like the idea of trying to explain to my mom or someone who's like,
48:51
SPEAKER_03: you know,
48:51
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
48:52
SPEAKER_03: what are these weird little friends of yours?
48:53
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
48:54
SPEAKER_03: like,
48:54
SPEAKER_03: I was like,
48:54
SPEAKER_03: oh yeah,
48:55
SPEAKER_03: that's,
48:55
SPEAKER_03: um,
48:55
SPEAKER_03: that's Squirtle says,
48:56
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
48:57
SPEAKER_03: don't,
48:57
SPEAKER_03: don't worry.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: He's actually like a, he's like a quant.
49:00
SPEAKER_03: A quant.
49:00
SPEAKER_03: Or it's like,
49:01
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
49:02
like these are like really successful people hiding behind
49:04
these anonymous
49:05
SPEAKER_03: accounts.
49:05
SPEAKER_03: And that's sort of, it's been the case for a few years now.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that,
49:09
SPEAKER_02: like,
49:10
SPEAKER_02: the feeling we have of,
49:12
SPEAKER_02: like,
49:12
SPEAKER_02: everything being so busy and sort of frothy is the bubble,
49:16
SPEAKER_02: like,
49:16
SPEAKER_02: the proper AI bubble,
49:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean?
49:17
SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, like, man, how fuck do we get if this bubble pops?
49:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, do the parties just stop?
49:23
SPEAKER_02: Does the LaCroix stop running?
49:25
SPEAKER_02: Like...
49:25
SPEAKER_03: It's hard.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: It's hard to say.
49:27
I mean,
49:27
I think,
49:28
you know,
49:29
my only personal experience with it was sort of COVID.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:32
SPEAKER_03: Um,
49:33
SPEAKER_03: but then it's,
49:34
SPEAKER_03: it's really,
49:34
SPEAKER_03: really hard for me to even comment on it because again,
49:36
SPEAKER_03: I was at art school.
49:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I saw everything fall off.
49:39
SPEAKER_03: I saw everybody leave the city.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: I saw those that stayed just kind of like,
49:43
SPEAKER_03: you know,
49:43
SPEAKER_03: they're in their like one bedroom apartment on zoom all day.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
49:48
And so,
49:48
but yeah,
49:49
like,
49:49
I mean,
49:49
what,
49:49
what does that look like without mass lockdowns?
49:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, what does that even look like?
49:53
SPEAKER_03: It's hard,
49:54
SPEAKER_03: it's hard for me to say,
49:55
SPEAKER_03: um,
49:56
SPEAKER_03: you know,
49:57
SPEAKER_03: I,
49:57
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't be surprised if you do sort of have a flight,
50:00
SPEAKER_03: right?
50:00
SPEAKER_03: Because I mean,
50:00
SPEAKER_03: I do think part of,
50:01
SPEAKER_03: part of,
50:01
SPEAKER_03: uh,
50:02
SPEAKER_03: San Francisco's revival,
50:03
SPEAKER_03: of course,
50:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:03
SPEAKER_03: God King,
50:04
SPEAKER_03: Levi's heir,
50:05
SPEAKER_03: Daniel Laurie.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
50:07
SPEAKER_03: We did a host of Daniel Laurie party,
50:08
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
50:09
SPEAKER_03: he's,
50:09
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:09
SPEAKER_03: he's been,
50:10
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:10
SPEAKER_03: like,
50:10
SPEAKER_03: like he's like very,
50:11
SPEAKER_03: very pro business,
50:12
SPEAKER_03: right?
50:12
SPEAKER_03: He's doing the short form content going,
50:14
SPEAKER_03: making Instagram reels with like,
50:16
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:16
SPEAKER_03: new businesses opening up.
50:17
SPEAKER_03: He's doing like Instagram reels with freaking like BlackRock.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: It's like, I'm at the BlackRock event.
50:22
SPEAKER_03: And so he's like very unapologetically pro-business.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: It's giving a lot of people confidence in the city.
50:27
SPEAKER_03: But where I'm going with this is that also, you know, the AI labs, right?
50:31
SPEAKER_03: They've decided to headquarter here in San Francisco, right?
50:33
SPEAKER_03: It's almost like San Francisco is just the luckiest city in the world.
50:36
SPEAKER_03: Luckiest city in the world.
50:37
SPEAKER_03: Time and time again, gold rush, silver rush, the railway roads, right?
50:41
SPEAKER_03: Tech bubble one, right?
50:42
SPEAKER_03: The dot-com bubble.
50:43
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you say tech bubble number two or,
50:45
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:46
SPEAKER_03: just before the housing crash or whatever,
50:47
SPEAKER_03: right?
50:48
SPEAKER_03: The point is that it's just lucky over and over and over again.
50:52
And we've struck gold again with the AI labs,
50:54
not only like,
50:55
you know,
50:56
coming of age,
50:57
right?
50:57
ChatGPT becoming a thing and this is in just this flood of
51:00
capital into this
51:01
SPEAKER_03: technology,
51:02
SPEAKER_03: but the labs making a conscious decision to headquarter in San Francisco.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:08
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, if a few of them go bust, I mean, I doubt it.
51:11
SPEAKER_03: I really do doubt it.
51:13
SPEAKER_03: But if a few of them go bust,
51:14
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
51:14
SPEAKER_03: I could,
51:14
SPEAKER_03: you could,
51:15
SPEAKER_03: you could see a flight out of San Francisco again.
51:16
SPEAKER_03: But again,
51:17
SPEAKER_03: I just think it's like one of those places in which it's not,
51:20
SPEAKER_03: it's not really like a Detroit.
51:21
SPEAKER_03: It's like, it's like, it's a very, very livable place, right?
51:23
SPEAKER_03: There's water on every single side.
51:25
SPEAKER_03: It's beautiful.
51:26
SPEAKER_03: You have Marin County up north,
51:27
SPEAKER_03: you've got the peninsula down,
51:29
SPEAKER_03: like there's just so many amenities.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, I just, I, I don't ever see it going away.
51:34
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter what the politicians try to do if they,
51:36
SPEAKER_03: if they try and,
51:37
SPEAKER_03: you know,
51:37
SPEAKER_03: pin everybody against the billionaires and they get a,
51:39
SPEAKER_03: they get a tax pass.
51:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
51:40
SPEAKER_03: you know,
51:41
SPEAKER_03: I,
51:41
SPEAKER_03: I do,
51:42
SPEAKER_03: I would like to say that I doubt that that's happening,
51:43
SPEAKER_03: uh,
51:44
SPEAKER_03: that it was going to happen,
51:45
SPEAKER_03: but MOTS gets political.
51:47
SPEAKER_03: But basically,
51:48
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
51:48
SPEAKER_03: I just,
51:49
SPEAKER_03: I don't see San Francisco going anywhere,
51:51
SPEAKER_03: regardless of what happens.
51:52
And where I want to end it is I really do think stuff we're
51:56
going to see on MOTS or
51:57
DBPN or on our timeline we're going to see in the New York
52:00
Times in three months.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: So what can we expect?
52:03
SPEAKER_02: What are you looking at?
52:04
SPEAKER_02: What are you seeing?
52:05
SPEAKER_02: What's the big trend right now?
52:06
I'm going to say Claude Cowork is going to be blowing up in
52:10
about three months in
52:11
SPEAKER_02: mainstream media.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: What are you looking at right now?
52:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:13
SPEAKER_03: Well,
52:13
SPEAKER_03: it does,
52:13
SPEAKER_03: it does feel like,
52:15
SPEAKER_03: it does feel like,
52:16
SPEAKER_03: again,
52:16
SPEAKER_03: there's,
52:17
SPEAKER_03: there's been that step change,
52:18
SPEAKER_03: kind of like what you mentioned with Claude,
52:19
SPEAKER_03: Claude Code,
52:20
SPEAKER_03: Claude Cowork.
52:21
SPEAKER_03: There does seem to be this renewed sense of fear amongst everybody here.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: It does.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, even I feel a bit more angsty.
52:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know if that's me.
52:30
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's just jet lag.
52:32
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's just artificial stimulus.
52:34
SPEAKER_03: I got the coffee right here.
52:35
But basically,
52:35
you know,
52:36
it does,
52:36
it does feel,
52:37
you know,
52:38
everyone feels angsty again.
52:39
SPEAKER_03: Right.
52:39
SPEAKER_03: You know, the, the, the permanent underclass is coming back.
52:41
SPEAKER_03: I do think,
52:41
SPEAKER_03: uh,
52:42
SPEAKER_03: you know,
52:42
SPEAKER_03: when,
52:43
SPEAKER_03: when the New Yorker article came out on the permanent underclass,
52:45
SPEAKER_03: sort of like,
52:46
SPEAKER_03: you know,
52:46
SPEAKER_03: the latter half of last year,
52:48
SPEAKER_03: you know,
52:48
SPEAKER_03: it was pretty easy to just kind of laugh it off.
52:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, okay, well maybe, maybe Leopold.
52:53
SPEAKER_03: And you go, hey, Leopold.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: I really like Leopold.
52:56
SPEAKER_03: He's awesome.
52:57
SPEAKER_03: So, so, you know, wrote situational awareness.
52:58
SPEAKER_03: It's Leopold Ashenbren's book.
53:00
And obviously,
53:01
you know,
53:01
that,
53:02
you know,
53:02
that's,
53:02
that's all AGI 2027,
53:04
right?
53:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, like very, very aggressive timelines.
53:07
SPEAKER_03: Um,
53:07
SPEAKER_03: but you know,
53:08
SPEAKER_03: the,
53:08
the discourse around the permanent underclass or two years to
53:10
accumulate capital,
53:11
SPEAKER_03: it all felt very sardonic,
53:12
SPEAKER_03: very sarcastic.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: Everyone was kind of like, you know, kind of like laughing about it.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: But now Claude Code is here and Claude Code work.
53:19
SPEAKER_03: Everybody's feels a bit angsty again.
53:21
SPEAKER_03: That is the vibe at the moment, I feel.
53:24
SPEAKER_03: I do think there's a lot of optimism.
53:25
SPEAKER_03: People are still moving to San Francisco.
53:27
SPEAKER_03: They want to build the AI thing or the next AI thing or whatever.
53:31
SPEAKER_03: But it feels a little more angsty now, right?
53:34
SPEAKER_03: That feels like a step change.
53:35
SPEAKER_03: Whenever that happens, there's always that angst for a few months.
53:38
SPEAKER_03: We'll see what happens after that.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: That's a really good guess because just before you got here,
53:42
SPEAKER_02: I think I was scrolling past a tweet that was like,
53:44
I'm feeling really down because like I could be actually fucked
53:48
as a coder,
53:49
SPEAKER_02: an engineer,
53:49
SPEAKER_02: a writer or whatever.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: I saw this tweet and you're right.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: This is bubbling beneath the surface, but I'm like scrolling.
53:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, right past.
53:57
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think that's right.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
54:01
SPEAKER_02: And you can feel it here.
54:03
You can feel like sort of this nihilism about this change
54:07
because we get used to it so fast.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: But then when it really is in your face,
54:11
SPEAKER_02: like it's happening,
54:12
SPEAKER_02: we're automating,
54:13
SPEAKER_02: you know,
54:14
SPEAKER_02: like regular work you didn't think we were going to touch yet.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: Like we've gotten there that quickly.
54:18
SPEAKER_02: It's it's happening.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think that's a good guess.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's the same.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing with like the X timeline, right?
54:23
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
54:23
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
54:24
SPEAKER_03: the whole thing in this past week,
54:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
54:25
SPEAKER_03: yesterday,
54:26
SPEAKER_03: right,
54:26
SPEAKER_03: when the starter packs released,
54:27
SPEAKER_03: everybody was furious,
54:29
SPEAKER_03: right?
54:29
SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, and I say everybody, I mean, it's the power users.
54:32
SPEAKER_03: The power users are furious.
54:33
And,
54:34
you know,
54:34
I do,
54:35
you know,
54:35
I tend to be not as worried about X.com,
54:37
the everything app.
54:38
SPEAKER_03: I just think network effects are too strong.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: But,
54:41
SPEAKER_03: you know,
54:41
SPEAKER_03: like,
54:41
SPEAKER_03: I do feel like it's like,
54:43
SPEAKER_03: it's like that,
54:44
SPEAKER_03: it's that same,
54:44
SPEAKER_03: it's the same energy,
54:45
SPEAKER_03: same vibe,
54:46
SPEAKER_03: same whatever.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: You know, we're getting kind of wee-wee with it.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: But, like, everybody is angsty, right?
54:51
SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, big X algorithm change.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: You know,
54:54
SPEAKER_03: like maybe we're,
54:55
SPEAKER_03: we're verging into some,
54:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
54:56
SPEAKER_03: like hyper slop algorithm,
54:58
SPEAKER_03: right?
54:59
Like AI generated video is,
55:01
is,
55:01
you know,
55:01
you can't,
55:02
you can't tell what's real anymore.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, like real sort of nihilism.
55:05
It's like,
55:06
um,
55:06
and yeah,
55:07
we got the same thing with the X algorithm,
55:08
right?
55:08
The starter packs came out and like all the power users were
55:10
totally furious.
55:12
I think at the end of the day,
55:13
it's probably not going to matter too much.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: Um,
55:15
SPEAKER_03: you know,
55:15
SPEAKER_03: like I might not like the algorithm changes,
55:18
SPEAKER_03: but at the end of the day,
55:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm still going to spend 16 hours a day on the fucking app.
55:20
Yeah.
55:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to shake my head to let the algorithm know that I disapprove.
55:24
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
55:25
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that is the feeling.
55:27
SPEAKER_03: It's almost like a feeling that we're going into a bad world.
55:30
SPEAKER_03: And I'm kind of like, my brother in Christ, we're the ones building it.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:34
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
55:36
SPEAKER_03: If it's so bad, we have some control over this.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: We have some control over the messaging.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: I think the messaging is really important because...
55:44
SPEAKER_03: It's going to be a thing in the midterms.
55:46
SPEAKER_03: And at this stage, both sides don't like AI.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: They don't like technology,
55:50
SPEAKER_03: you know,
55:50
SPEAKER_03: whether it be a data center thing,
55:51
SPEAKER_03: electricity thing,
55:52
SPEAKER_03: a fucking water thing.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
55:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, there are so many, there are so many nails, right.
55:58
SPEAKER_03: That can be hammered here.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Jaden.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
56:03
SPEAKER_02: Please plug all of your things,
56:04
SPEAKER_02: your X to Everything app,
56:06
SPEAKER_02: your podcast,
56:06
SPEAKER_02: please,
56:07
SPEAKER_02: for the audience at home.
56:09
SPEAKER_03: Goodness gracious.
56:09
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
56:10
SPEAKER_03: I feel like whenever I plug my Twitter handle,
56:12
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
56:12
SPEAKER_03: oh,
56:13
SPEAKER_03: you know,
56:13
SPEAKER_03: I made that when I was like a 14-year-old kid.
56:15
SPEAKER_03: It's like a PlayStation Network gamertag or something.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: It's so good.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:19
SPEAKER_03: But, uh, you know, my handle on X is at creatine underscore cycle.
56:23
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know,
56:23
SPEAKER_03: for those watching,
56:24
SPEAKER_03: hopefully you can tell that I work on my arms because God,
56:27
SPEAKER_03: I'd be non-verbal,
56:28
SPEAKER_03: not feeling the touch of a woman for eight years.
56:29
SPEAKER_03: I gotta have something to show for it.
56:31
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, uh, creatine underscore cycle.
56:34
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I, I post full, uh, MOTS episodes onto that account.
56:38
Um,
56:38
you know,
56:38
my,
56:38
one of my recent little projects,
56:40
of course,
56:40
is Swole as a Service.
56:41
SPEAKER_03: So,
56:42
SPEAKER_03: you know,
56:42
SPEAKER_03: like the,
56:43
SPEAKER_03: the gym interview with,
56:44
SPEAKER_03: uh,
56:44
SPEAKER_03: with,
56:44
SPEAKER_03: with Sholta and Dwarkesh can be making a lot more of them.
56:46
SPEAKER_03: You can find that on YouTube.
56:47
SPEAKER_03: Um,
56:47
SPEAKER_03: and yeah,
56:48
SPEAKER_03: like if you want just more extra little bits of MOTS,
56:51
SPEAKER_03: you can also check out at MOTS underscore pod.
56:54
I'm just kind of like,
56:55
you know,
56:55
shit posting from the MOTS account,
56:57
posting other little clips.
56:58
SPEAKER_03: So if people ever want more of this thing, right.
57:00
SPEAKER_03: So people don't get exhausted on my account.
57:02
SPEAKER_03: They can also follow that account.
57:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, that's, that's sort of, that's, that's, that's where I am.
57:07
SPEAKER_03: Mostly X, but you know, perfect.
57:09
SPEAKER_03: There's some gym interviews on YouTube too.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: I love Jaden.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: I love Mott's.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: I think you're doing great work.
57:13
And there's no other better place to look at this sort of weird
57:17
world with someone
57:19
SPEAKER_02: who's so funny and so Australian.
57:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, actually, I do have one more question.
57:22
SPEAKER_02: I forget.
57:23
SPEAKER_02: Bench press.
57:25
SPEAKER_03: Oh, what's my max?
57:27
SPEAKER_03: Please ask me that.
57:29
SPEAKER_02: What is your max bench press?
57:31
SPEAKER_02: And then explain why I'm asking that.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:34
So,
57:34
I mean,
57:34
I guess the explanation as to why is because I got TBPN to ask
57:37
Brian Chesky.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: I'm so proud of that.
57:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm so,
57:40
SPEAKER_03: so proud of my pull on the timeline that I can get,
57:42
SPEAKER_03: um,
57:43
SPEAKER_03: you know,
57:43
SPEAKER_03: guys that are my friends to ask sort of like the pinnacle of like,
57:46
SPEAKER_03: like the technology gym bro.
57:48
SPEAKER_03: You can see him working out at Fitness SF.
57:50
SPEAKER_03: That's a regular thing.
57:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm not doxing him.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: I won't say which one, just to respect the man's semi-privacy.
57:57
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, my one rep max, keep in mind that I weigh about 160 pounds.
58:02
SPEAKER_03: I kind of fluctuate.
58:04
Important disclaimer for those that actually lift,
58:06
but my one rep max is 290.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
58:08
SPEAKER_03: Not up there with Chesky's 315, but I do weigh quite a bit less than him.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Locked in.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: Locked in.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: We'll get you to the TML rack as soon as possible.
58:19
SPEAKER_03: God, please let me in the thinking machine.
58:25
SPEAKER_03: Please let me squat in the thinking machine.
58:26
SPEAKER_02: They don't have 45 plates.
58:28
SPEAKER_02: It's over.
58:29
SPEAKER_02: It's so over.
58:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay, to be fair to them, I really like the people of Thinking Machines.
58:33
SPEAKER_03: John Shulman, actually, he's a fan of jazz, right?
58:35
SPEAKER_03: So we bonded a little bit on the timeline over jazz music.
58:39
And so,
58:39
you know,
58:40
plenty of friends at that lab,
58:42
like we have at a lot of these labs.
58:44
But no,
58:44
obviously,
58:45
clearly the 45s are going to be slightly out of view in that
58:47
picture.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, okay.
58:50
SPEAKER_03: Funny, funny jabs.
58:51
SPEAKER_03: Hopefully they see it as funny.
58:52
SPEAKER_03: If not, I'm sorry.
58:53
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
58:53
SPEAKER_02: We'll get you in there.
58:55
SPEAKER_02: Go follow Jaden.
58:55
SPEAKER_02: Go listen to Mott.
58:57
SPEAKER_02: And thank you again for podcasting with me.
58:59
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: The Core Memory Podcast is hosted by me, Ashley Vance.
59:09
SPEAKER_00: It is produced by David Nicholson and me.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: Our theme song is by James Mercer and John Sortland.
59:17
SPEAKER_00: The show is edited by the John Sortland.
59:23
SPEAKER_00: Thanks as always to Brex and E1 Ventures for making this possible.
59:29
Please visit our Substack,
59:32
YouTube,
59:33
and podcast channels to get more of what Core Memory makes.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, y'all.