Latest / Thick No More / They Told Me the Statistics. I Refused to Become One. | Cristina Gilbert

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They Told Me the Statistics. I Refused to Become One. | Cristina Gilbert · Thick No More

• 0:00
  Welcome back to another episode of Thick No More.
• 0:03
  Today I'm joined by someone who's been challenging
• 0:06
  expectations since childhood. Diagnosed with ADHD at just
• 0:10
  eight years old, 1995, a time when girls were rarely
• 0:14
  recognized, Christina grew up with labels, statistics, and
• 0:19
  doubts being put on her future. But instead of letting those
• 0:22
  define her, she's carved her own path.
• 0:24
  From struggling in classrooms to thriving in chaos of
• 0:28
  professional kitchens, to completely reinventing herself
• 0:31
  in the Netherlands where she built a marketing agency and now
• 0:35
  works in Ed tech, Christina has turned every risk factor into
• 0:38
  resilience. And her story is about grit,
• 0:42
  creativity, and proving that neurodivergent brains don't just
• 0:46
  survive, they can thrive. Christina, welcome.
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  I'm really excited to share your journey with our listeners
• 0:52
  today. Well, thank you so much.
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  What an introduction. First of all, thank you so much.
• 0:56
  No, it's, yeah, it's lovely to have you on.
• 0:59
  And yeah, I, I, I loved, I loved exploring, you know, digging
• 1:04
  into your, into your story and everything.
• 1:05
  And I know the listeners are going to love this.
• 1:07
  So I listen, I'm, I'm sure you know already because I know you
• 1:10
  listen to the podcast. There's a question I ask
• 1:12
  everybody and it seems to get a great, great reaction this bit
• 1:17
  because I've I've had some some common songs on and some not so
• 1:20
  common songs. So you walk in a room, a tune
• 1:22
  starts playing every time. What would your song be?
• 1:24
  Right, so I thought about this for a while, actually.
• 1:29
  Yeah, it's what? It's the one question I
• 1:31
  struggled with the most, to be honest with you, I think.
• 1:34
  OK, so at the risk of sounding obscure for the sake of sounding
• 1:37
  obscure, it'd be Awake by Tycho, instrumental sort of atmospheric
• 1:43
  electronic artist out of California.
• 1:46
  And he has a it's a very cinematic sort of presence in
• 1:50
  his music, but also very calm and grounding.
• 1:53
  And yeah, it's just one of those songs that makes me feel calm,
• 1:56
  grounded, happy. And I hope people feel that way
• 1:59
  when I enter a room. I hope they do anyway.
• 2:01
  I mean, I'm an energetic person that thrives on anxiety, so.
• 2:05
  Probably, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:06
  Well, yeah, it's funny, you know, we, I asked that
• 2:09
  questions, you know, to everyone and everyone goes.
• 2:11
  Well, listen, you know, I had to think really long and hard about
• 2:13
  this question. Like all the other questions are
• 2:15
  quite straightforward for this one's.
• 2:17
  OK, so I don't know that song, but I do make a point.
• 2:20
  Again, listening to everything afterwards, so I'll go and check
• 2:22
  that one out. And yeah, good choice.
• 2:24
  Please go give it a listen, yeah.
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  I will, I will. So you know, you've been open
• 2:29
  about your ADHD and what I like to do is take people back.
• 2:33
  And I appreciate it's difficult, but this is a space for our
• 2:36
  community. It's a space for people to
• 2:39
  listen and know that things are going to be OK.
• 2:40
  And the only way we can let them know it's going to be OK is by
• 2:44
  talking about the past. So would you be kind enough to
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  sort of take it it's back to when you're diagnosed with ADHD
• 2:49
  just A and, and you know, and 95 that's still rare.
• 2:53
  So sort of talk us about that, how it happened, how you found
• 2:56
  out about it and what it meant at the time.
• 2:58
  Sort of. Tell me about it.
• 2:59
  Sure. Yeah.
• 3:00
  Let's go back. So it was both a good and a bad
• 3:04
  thing being diagnosed at 8. Yeah, 1995.
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  Like you said, neurodiversity was still kind of a not as open
• 3:10
  as a topic, but yeah, I was in 3rd grade.
• 3:13
  And Mrs. Romlakan, I still remember my teacher's name.
• 3:17
  Wow. She, yeah, wonderful lady.
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  And she, you know, was perceptive and took my parents
• 3:22
  aside at a parent teacher conference and said, look,
• 3:24
  you've got a good kid. She cannot pay attention for the
• 3:27
  life of her. So I would heavily suggest that
• 3:31
  you have her tested for ADD. It was called ADD back back
• 3:35
  then. Yeah, yeah.
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  You know, I, I was the kid that was shifting in my seat and
• 3:40
  looking around and fidgeting with everything and, and she
• 3:43
  noticed the symptoms right away and, and told my parents and and
• 3:47
  my parents, sure enough, they, they got me in to see a doctor
• 3:50
  and had me tested. And, yeah, of course, off the
• 3:54
  charts. And, you know, actually, at the
• 3:56
  time, it was pretty rare for a girl to get diagnosed,
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  especially back then. It was considered a boy's
• 4:02
  condition. And when you thought of ADHD, it
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  was these boys that were, you know, every, every class had
• 4:08
  that one kid, right. Bouncing off the walls.
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  Yeah. Interrupting the teacher, being
• 4:13
  loud and disruptive, you know, And it presents differently in
• 4:18
  girls. So a lot of girls are overlooked
• 4:21
  when when being diagnosed. As a matter of fact, I have a
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  lot of friends that have ADHD and they didn't get diagnosed
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  until their 30s, almost in the into their 40s.
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  And they said, oh, I struggled because they were looking for
• 4:32
  the symptoms that present themselves in boys, not girls.
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  So I was very lucky to, you know, to have that.
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  But yeah, I mean, of course with girls, it presents with
• 4:41
  inattentiveness. And, you know, that the labels
• 4:44
  are different, but they're still labels that hurt.
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  Ditzy, airheaded space cadet. You know, these are all things
• 4:50
  that I've been. Did you were your were your
• 4:53
  parents open with you about the, you know, the statistics that
• 4:57
  you were given? You said you were kind of off
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  the off the charts. I mean, how, how did it?
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  How did it did knock your confidence growing up, you know,
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  as a girl in the 90s? How did it affect you inside?
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  Was you aware of, you know, the ADHD?
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  I mean, did you feel different? I guess?
• 5:14
  But yeah, tell me a bit about that.
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  Yeah, yeah, My parents were very open, especially my mom.
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  She bought every book that was available and did all of her
• 5:22
  research. And actually we found or they
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  found a an ADHD specialist. So I didn't see a regular
• 5:30
  pediatrician. I saw somebody who specialized
• 5:32
  in treating ADHD kids. So I was very lucky in that
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  sense that I was made aware of all the statistics.
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  But that's a good and a bad thing, right?
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  Because I grew up thinking that I was meant to be a screw up.
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  I heard about the, you know, you're going to be way more
• 5:48
  likely to end up with an unplanned pregnancy.
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  You're going to be way more likely to drop out of college
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  and go from low skilled job to low skilled job that you
• 5:58
  probably, you know, if you don't really curtail you're impulsive
• 6:02
  because ADHD kids have impulse control issues, right?
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  And I definitely did. If you don't learn to curb this
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  impulse control issue, you're going to end up in jail legal
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  trouble. You know, and I I get that he
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  was trying to steer my parents into giving me structure and you
• 6:20
  know, and and and you. Just sorry to interrupt your
• 6:23
  sentence, no? No, please.
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  You and you and you heard all this.
• 6:27
  You heard him kind of saying all this.
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  Or was this relayed to you? To you?
• 6:30
  Wow. Oh, yeah.
• 6:31
  Oh, yeah. He.
• 6:33
  Wow. He was old school, too.
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  I mean, he he was older. I think he actually is still
• 6:37
  alive. Gosh.
• 6:38
  But thank you, doctor. I won't say his name, but yeah,
• 6:40
  I don't know. Maybe maybe it's good.
• 6:42
  But she's very retired at this point.
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  But, you know, he was old school.
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  He was in my face. You know, if if you don't learn,
• 6:50
  if you don't take your medication, if if you're, you
• 6:52
  know, don't obey your parents and obey their structure.
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  Because of course, I pushed against it.
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  Of course I rebelled. My parents put the guardrails on
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  and I tried to RIP them off at every turn.
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  And, and you know, you're going to end up pregnant, you're going
• 7:04
  to end up in, in prison, you're going to end up, you know, with
• 7:06
  no, no money and a screw up and you're going to disappoint
• 7:09
  everybody. He was very, and he did that as
• 7:12
  a, he was trying to be protective.
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  But hearing those things as a kid is so like, you learn not to
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  trust your own instincts and you learn that you know, me at my
• 7:24
  base level, I can't trust my first impulse to do something.
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  I always have to second guess myself.
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  I always have to, you know, I I can't be trusted without yeah, I
• 7:35
  keep repeating myself, but guardrails, you know, if the
• 7:38
  structure is there, then that's OK, but but me at my base level,
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  you know, I if I do my first impulse or what my instinct is,
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  I'm going to end up in trouble or hurting someone.
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  You're. Disappointed.
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  Yeah, I know. And it upsets me to to hear, you
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  know, the fact that you heard all those those those those
• 7:55
  things said, I mean, that that's just scary.
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  I mean, you know, my story, I got told those kind of things by
• 8:02
  teachers, but I mean, to have a doctor kind of or a specialist
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  say those kind of things. Maybe it was blunt tactics and
• 8:09
  blunt force trauma that, you know, trying to carve it into
• 8:12
  you. The fact you still remember it,
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  I guess. Yeah, does mean that it was that
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  it was planted into you. So maybe it was done for a
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  purpose and maybe, maybe maybe that shaped you.
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  You know, who are the adults? You mentioned your parents.
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  Who are the adults in your life that kind of helped you believe
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  in you then and not made you think you're going to be like
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  that, I guess? Yeah, gosh.
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  Well, my parents, of course, it goes without saying, you know,
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  they, they were very overprotective and, and you
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  know, really gave my life a lot of structure and that's probably
• 8:45
  the only reason I got through K through 12 without flunking out
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  of school completely. You know, they got me on
• 8:51
  medication, they got me help and gave me support.
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  I also had great teachers. Actually never really got
• 8:58
  bullied by, I mean, there was a few, you know, where I had a
• 9:02
  history teacher that was quite mean to me every once in a
• 9:05
  while. But but the vast majority of
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  them were, were good and supportive.
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  And I think that's because I had involved parents.
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  You know, my mom went to my, all of my teachers and said, Hey,
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  look, my kid is neurodiverse. She has ADD she's going to need
• 9:17
  special, not special treatment, But you know, please make her
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  sit in the front of the classroom so she can pay
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  attention. Make her, you know, fill out A
• 9:25
  to do list every day so that she knows to do her homework,
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  because if she doesn't write it down, it's not going to get
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  done. And I don't know it exists.
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  So, you know, so I, I think that was, you know, teachers, I had
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  great teachers also, I was a swimmer.
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  My parents got me into sports as a young kid and I think that
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  gave me a lot of confidence. I was a shy kid in the classroom
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  because like I told you about the, the base level instincts, I
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  always thought I was going to be stupid and slow and you know,
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  I'm going to be in the, in the slow classes.
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  You can't say that kind of stuff anymore.
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  But, but that's what they were. That's kids called it back then.
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  You're, you're the slow kid, you know, but in swimming I had a
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  coach Anne, my coach, I, I was, I was definitely the loud,
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  mouthy kid in the pool because I had confidence, you know, I, I
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  was good at that thing. And she instilled a lot of
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  confidence in me and saying, you know, you're talented at this,
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  you're good at this. And for the first time, you know
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  I you. Believe that.
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  I'm hearing by an adult that isn't my my mom or my dad that
• 10:21
  says, you know, you're good, you're going to be successful.
• 10:24
  Look at you, you get in the pool and it's like watching a dolphin
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  swim, you know? So that, that was a a big
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  confidence boost for me. So coach, teachers, parents,
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  other kids, not so much. But.
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  Yeah, I, I, I, you know, I hear a lot when you have that, that,
• 10:39
  that focus, that drive put in front of you.
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  And it is only like 1 destination.
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  So the one destination being getting from one side of the
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  pool to the other, that's your focus point, right?
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  Yeah. And then if someone's someone's
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  encouraging you to get from one side to the other and telling
• 10:53
  you you're going to do it because you're really good at
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  it, it's, it's easy to believe that.
• 10:56
  And it's easy to, to find that niche that, that, Hey, I'm
• 11:00
  actually good at this. You know, I can do this with my
• 11:02
  eyes closed. Not that you would swimming, but
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  you know what I mean. So you, you, when we spoke
• 11:08
  before, you kind of told me that in your words at school and
• 11:12
  college, we're a real mixed bag. I remember you saying that I
• 11:14
  really, it stuck in my head. And so tell me about going
• 11:19
  through those periods through school, through through college,
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  the challenges, you know, the biggest challenges you've faced
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  and how did you, how did you navigate them?
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  You know, in your mind what was your mindset and how did you
• 11:32
  control it, I guess. Yeah, so, so I think growing up,
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  I learned how to because like I mentioned about the, you know,
• 11:41
  me not being able to trust my first instinct because I thought
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  I was, you know, but I was going to be a screw up if I followed
• 11:48
  my first impulse to do something.
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  So that led me to sort of learn a lot of coping mechanisms and
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  masking. And that was a lot of like
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  following what other people did because they were normal.
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  So if I just hang in the back and observe, observe other
• 12:05
  people and do what they do, then I'll be perceived as normal and
• 12:09
  I'm not going to stick out. And so that was kind of, I drove
• 12:12
  that into myself and and that's just kind of how I coped with
• 12:17
  social situations and school and work and just, you know, do what
• 12:22
  other people do. Yeah.
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  And when I, of course, as soon as I graduated high school, now
• 12:28
  I'm on my own, you know, moved out of the house and all of the
• 12:31
  support and structure that my parents had put in place
• 12:36
  disappeared overnight. I'm on my own now, right?
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  So as you can imagine that that was a total mess.
• 12:45
  You know, that combined with me not really knowing who I am,
• 12:48
  just masking and, and and kind of mirroring what other people
• 12:52
  are doing my peers to appear normal just led me to yeah.
• 13:00
  Safety blanket removed, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 13:04
  And also, you know, growing up in a structured home, it's even
• 13:08
  worse when you move out because, yeah, like you have all this
• 13:11
  freedom to explore and do whatever you want.
• 13:14
  There's no one to tell you no. And I.
• 13:16
  Think for anything off the rails a bit.
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  Definitely, you know, and I think the first couple of
• 13:21
  semesters of college were OK. I was still taking my
• 13:25
  medication. I was still had those habits
• 13:28
  coming from my parents and growing up as I had the habit of
• 13:34
  still making lists and going to school and doing the thing.
• 13:37
  I had a routine. But I slowly realized I don't
• 13:40
  have to do any of this, you know, and I stopped taking my
• 13:42
  meds, you know, was hanging out with all the wrong people, you
• 13:46
  know, because I, I would befriend anyone.
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  I was, I was kind of just I, you know, I moved from one social
• 13:52
  circle to the next to the next. And I kind of make friends with
• 13:54
  anybody because I knew how to mirror and mask.
• 13:57
  So I, I, I could become whatever people wanted me to be.
• 14:00
  I used to, my mom used to say I was a chameleon, you know, and,
• 14:04
  and, and so of course that led me to hang out with the wrong
• 14:07
  people and a lot of drinking and drugs and parties.
• 14:12
  I was just like, well, I don't actually have to go to school.
• 14:15
  I can just party. There's no one telling me no.
• 14:17
  As long as I have a a job and I can pay for my apartment,
• 14:19
  nothing else matters, you know, and I went crazy.
• 14:23
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that and that, you know,
• 14:26
  again, it's a story that we're hearing and, and, and we, I'll
• 14:30
  take you back to the swimming pool.
• 14:32
  You know, if you treated maybe those college years like the
• 14:35
  swimming pool, you need to get from one side to the other, the
• 14:38
  focus probably would have been would have stayed.
• 14:40
  But I guess it's really, it's really easy.
• 14:43
  I don't know if you heard the saying be an eagle, not a
• 14:45
  seagull. So it's really easy to be a
• 14:48
  seagull in a group and fly around in a group and then saw
• 14:51
  saw yourself. And I get I get why you would do
• 14:54
  that after you've your safety blankets removed of of your mom
• 14:58
  and dad intervening and saying, say, make sure she sits at the
• 15:01
  front. You're free.
• 15:02
  You're the freedoms there for you to kind of, you know, be
• 15:07
  you, I guess. Tough times.
• 15:08
  Yeah, I, I, I, I get it. And I don't want to take you any
• 15:12
  further down that route because you'll probably both end up
• 15:14
  crying. But yeah.
• 15:15
  OK, so this is this is the bit. I love this bit about you.
• 15:19
  So then we find ourselves, right?
• 15:21
  We find, we find Christina in a kitchen, right from dishwasher
• 15:26
  to running a line, right? This the tell me what why you
• 15:30
  think that environment worked worked so well for your brain.
• 15:34
  And this is a really interesting point actually this.
• 15:37
  Yeah, So yeah. Oh, man, I also love this bit
• 15:40
  about myself. Yeah.
• 15:43
  I because it was where I really learned.
• 15:48
  I got structure back into my life.
• 15:50
  It wasn't from my parents or peers or teachers or coaches.
• 15:53
  It was, it was the path that I found AI was dropped out of
• 15:58
  college. I was working full time.
• 15:59
  I always liked to work that. That was the one thing my doctor
• 16:02
  wasn't right about. I didn't go from job to job and
• 16:05
  I couldn't. I could always hold down a job.
• 16:07
  And I love to work, I think because it gave me structure and
• 16:10
  a routine and it also paid for my apartment and alcohol and
• 16:14
  stuff. But, but so, yeah, so I started
• 16:18
  working at a grocery store and I was working in the front, you
• 16:22
  know, customer service desk, running a cash register and
• 16:26
  anything to get me away from the general public, right?
• 16:28
  I was like, I, I want to, you know, maybe go to the produce
• 16:31
  department or stock shelves or I want to do anything else other
• 16:33
  than customer service. And, and so I, I went back to
• 16:37
  the, the produce department in this grocery store and they were
• 16:40
  like, hey, do you want to cut fruit?
• 16:42
  And I was like, yeah, sure, that sounds fun.
• 16:45
  Yeah, why not? And so that's how it kind of
• 16:48
  started. It was like dishwashing, cutting
• 16:50
  fruit, prepping stuff, prepping fruits and vegetables and making
• 16:53
  some salads. Very basic stuff.
• 16:55
  But it taught me knife skills and it gave me my structure back
• 17:00
  that I so desperately needed to. Yeah, to, to get my life in
• 17:05
  order. You know, from then on, it was,
• 17:08
  I liked it. It.
• 17:09
  So kitchens are are almost military esque.
• 17:12
  They're very regimented. You know, you wake up early, you
• 17:15
  know, you put on your chef whites, you go into the kitchen
• 17:18
  and, you know, you have to make sure everything is clean and you
• 17:21
  have to make sure your station is clean and there's a there's
• 17:23
  an orderly regimented process. And yeah, it was, I know a lot
• 17:28
  of kids with ADHD kind of go into the military to get that
• 17:31
  sort of the sense of boundaries again or, or structure or
• 17:34
  discipline. And for me, the kitchen gave me
• 17:37
  that. And yeah, from then on it was
• 17:40
  like, you know, I, I went on to work in, in many kitchens and,
• 17:44
  and I, yeah, I, I just love the environment.
• 17:46
  And it was, it became an obsession.
• 17:48
  I loved making food because, yeah, not only did it give me
• 17:51
  structure, but also just making food for people is great.
• 17:54
  It, it puts a smile on everyone's face.
• 17:55
  Everyone loves good food. So it was, it was the perfect
• 17:59
  environment for me where I learned, yeah, discipline.
• 18:02
  And it's almost, again, a focus point, I guess every day.
• 18:08
  You mentioned about cleaning, you knew you needed to go in and
• 18:10
  clean. Then you would obviously have, I
• 18:12
  guess, what you needed to do for the day.
• 18:15
  So the structure getting from one point, from point A to point
• 18:18
  B to complete the day, the focus in your mind was right.
• 18:22
  This is what I need to do. This is what I need to focus on.
• 18:25
  And that's where I need to get to, similar to the swimming,
• 18:27
  right? But your mind was coaching you
• 18:29
  rather than a coach coaching you at this point.
• 18:31
  Your mind, you were telling your own mind, right?
• 18:34
  This is what I need to do. And that's where I need to get
• 18:36
  to I guess. Absolutely.
• 18:37
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 18:39
  There's something about it being so fast-paced.
• 18:42
  It's also very, it's a very physical job.
• 18:44
  You're on your feet, you're constantly moving and there is
• 18:47
  no space for your mind to wander.
• 18:50
  And I just really, I liked that I I'm, I'm not sitting here
• 18:53
  overthinking or ruminating on things or, you know, paying
• 18:55
  attention to the hundred thoughts and that comes through
• 18:58
  my head at a time. You know, my head is a firework.
• 19:00
  It's like an explosion constantly.
• 19:02
  It's exhausting. But here, if I have to pay
• 19:06
  attention, there's heat and flame and knives and, you know,
• 19:09
  people going behind inside and, you know, to your right and
• 19:13
  they're carrying a, you know, hot oil.
• 19:15
  I mean you, you can't let yourself drift in that
• 19:18
  environment. I like it, Yeah, I can tell.
• 19:23
  And when you're talking about you, some really enthusiastic
• 19:25
  about it, I think there's also maybe something that parents and
• 19:28
  educators can take from that about matching environments to
• 19:33
  your mind. I mean you mentioned the pool,
• 19:36
  you mentioned the coaching, you mentioned that the working in
• 19:39
  the kitchen in the direction and the focus.
• 19:42
  I think for any young listener listening or any parent
• 19:45
  listening, maybe having that mindset of, OK, this is letter
• 19:49
  A, Letter B is the finish line, how do I get from A to B and
• 19:53
  what do I need to do to retain the focus?
• 19:56
  I think is a really interesting point to be honest with you.
• 19:59
  Right. No, exactly.
• 20:00
  This is a. This is really important.
• 20:02
  You know, you bring up a great point is you know, you have to
• 20:05
  match your environment to a neuro diverse mind.
• 20:08
  I think the biggest lesson is that environment matters just as
• 20:12
  much as the effort. For a long time I thought
• 20:14
  success was just about willpower.
• 20:16
  If I could just try harder and focus more than I'd be fine.
• 20:19
  But what I learned is ADHD brains don't thrive in every
• 20:23
  environment. And that's not a character flaw,
• 20:25
  you know, it's just wiring. It's just how our brains work.
• 20:27
  And for parents, if you, you know, if you have a neurodiverse
• 20:30
  child or educators, I'd say like, don't ask why isn't this
• 20:34
  child focusing? Ask what kind of environment
• 20:37
  brings out their focus. Some kids need movement or
• 20:41
  quiet, some need hands on learning, some need a bit of
• 20:44
  adrenaline. You know, they're get your kid
• 20:46
  in sports or get your kid in the kitchen or in dance lessons.
• 20:50
  Make them move. You know, not every kid is is
• 20:52
  wired to sit at a desk or, or in an exam hall for 3-4 hours and
• 20:58
  just focus on a blank sheet of paper.
• 21:00
  You know, it's yeah. I think the big thing is it's
• 21:04
  going to be OK. You know, to any parent it's
• 21:06
  going to be OK. You would just like, you've just
• 21:09
  listed a few things there that that they can do.
• 21:13
  And it is, it is finding that focus point.
• 21:16
  It's finding that drive at that thing, that spark that really
• 21:19
  makes that child go, hey, I'm actually pretty good at
• 21:22
  swimming. I've realized that, you know,
• 21:25
  so, yeah. So so you're, you're in the
• 21:27
  Netherlands now. You moved to the Netherlands,
• 21:29
  which was a big leap. I guess it'd be cool to tell
• 21:31
  people what drew you there. And then we also talked about
• 21:35
  you, you, you set up and ruin your own marketing agency.
• 21:38
  So tell us how the move came about to the Netherlands and,
• 21:41
  and how did you, how did you go really from kitchens to
• 21:47
  marketing? I'd love to hear this story,
• 21:49
  really. Yeah, well, in true ADHD
• 21:52
  fashion, the dots may look random, but they connect
• 21:55
  perfectly in my mind. Like to me.
• 21:57
  Yeah. Well, yeah, of course.
• 21:58
  Actually, as you do, you go from kitchen to Ed tech, I mean.
• 22:02
  Totally sure. Yeah, I was working in
• 22:07
  restaurants and I was dreaming in of opening one of my own.
• 22:11
  And there was actually a move. So I, I'm originally from
• 22:13
  Orlando, FL and I moved from my hometown in 2000, I believe.
• 22:19
  And I moved out to Colorado just to get away, clean myself up,
• 22:23
  you know, get out of the party scene.
• 22:25
  Because I knew if I lived in Orlando and I was hanging around
• 22:28
  the same people doing the same drugs and, you know, going to
• 22:31
  the same parties, I was just going to end up nowhere.
• 22:34
  So I, I moved out to Colorado in part to, to kind of get out of
• 22:38
  that environment and just see something new and, you know,
• 22:41
  trade in the beach for the mountains.
• 22:42
  And there was AI. Should do, right?
• 22:44
  I should do. Of course, of course.
• 22:48
  Yeah. I say like it's so easy, you
• 22:49
  know, beach for mountains. Why not?
• 22:52
  Yeah, just anybody can do it. Yeah.
• 22:54
  So, so I Long story short, I there was a restaurant in
• 22:59
  Westcliff, Colorado, which is a tiny little western, your
• 23:03
  stereotypical western mountain town with like one St.
• 23:06
  You know, it's got the corner store and it's got the post
• 23:09
  office and it's got the couple of restaurants and and that's
• 23:12
  it. And there's, you know, beautiful
• 23:14
  backdrop of mountains. And there was a, an old feed
• 23:17
  store, horse feed store in its original building and it been
• 23:22
  converted into a restaurant. And it had a, a little
• 23:28
  greenhouse and a garden and a little potato cellar.
• 23:31
  And I wanted to manage that restaurant so bad.
• 23:35
  I applied and it didn't work out, but it sparked this thing
• 23:39
  in my head where I was like, well, I'm not right.
• 23:41
  The hyper focus of ADHD. I'm not satisfied with just
• 23:44
  knowing how to make food. I want to learn how to grow it.
• 23:47
  I want from like seed to plate. I want to know how the entire
• 23:51
  process works. So and, and you know, I, I
• 23:54
  finally felt OK. I haven't, you know, I'm, I'm
• 23:56
  not in the party lifestyle anymore.
• 23:58
  I'm not doing any of the crazy crap I was doing in, in Orlando.
• 24:02
  So it's time for me to go back to school and get my life back
• 24:05
  on the rails. And like really, you know,
• 24:06
  focus, focus in this is my thing.
• 24:09
  And so I looked at schools and the washing.
• 24:12
  I want it. I think it's Washington State
• 24:13
  University. But anyway, one of the schools
• 24:16
  in Washington state, which is a gorgeous state anyway, and I
• 24:20
  kind of wanted to move there anyway.
• 24:21
  And I was looking at they have a really great farming program and
• 24:25
  I thought this is what I'm doing now.
• 24:27
  And, and I was convinced and, and then I looked at tuition
• 24:30
  costs and, you know, my heart sank and I cried and I'm never
• 24:34
  going to do it. So I, I was like, well, no, no,
• 24:36
  no, no, no, no, this is, this is what I'm doing.
• 24:39
  Like this is my thing. I'm going to be a farmer slash
• 24:41
  restaurant tour. So this is there we can, right?
• 24:45
  Absolutely. You can't be swayed.
• 24:47
  You know, people think ADHD people can't focus.
• 24:49
  No, no, no, no. We focus way too much on things
• 24:53
  when we find our thing. And that was my thing.
• 24:55
  It was food. I'm food and I'm being a farmer,
• 24:57
  you know, farm to table restaurant, that's what I'm
• 24:59
  going to do. And so I started looking outside
• 25:01
  of the box and looking at different countries like, hey,
• 25:04
  what if I moved to Costa Rica? What if I, I don't know, you
• 25:08
  know, why not? And I always kind of wanted to
• 25:10
  move to Europe. I know all the, it makes perfect
• 25:13
  sense, right? So I'm like, OK, I have to like,
• 25:16
  I, I yeah, maybe let's go to Europe.
• 25:19
  Well, of course, the first country that comes up is the
• 25:21
  Netherlands because they are the number 2 exporter of
• 25:24
  agricultural goods in the world, second only to the United
• 25:28
  States, which is huge. It's this tiny postage stamp
• 25:30
  size of a country is responsible for so much farm farming it's
• 25:36
  crazy. So I was looking.
• 25:38
  At tuition costs, yeah, right. Yeah, right.
• 25:41
  So I, you know, I was like, OK, so I looked in tuition costs.
• 25:45
  It's not that expensive. It's actually cheaper for me to
• 25:47
  move to Europe rather than stay in America and go to school
• 25:50
  America. Yeah.
• 25:52
  So I mean, come on, ridiculous school costs.
• 25:55
  But it was cheaper for me to move to the Netherlands and and
• 25:58
  go back to school. So that's what I did.
• 26:00
  A lot of heartache on the way there, but I, I eventually did
• 26:03
  it and, and well, it's a lot of technology, the farming here.
• 26:08
  So I thought I was just going to like go out and work in a field
• 26:10
  or whatever and that I, I could have chosen to do that.
• 26:13
  But a lot of the farming in the Netherlands is focused on
• 26:17
  greenhouse. That's how they're able to
• 26:18
  produce so much with such little space as they've just scienced
• 26:24
  it. So, you know, operating a
• 26:27
  greenhouse is like operating a big piece of machinery
• 26:29
  basically. So it's a lot of engineering and
• 26:31
  it's a lot of chemistry and it's a lot of just math and science
• 26:34
  and boy, my brain just doesn't like that.
• 26:36
  So I but I did like the the business aspect of it.
• 26:40
  So a lot, the program that I went to had a lot of marketing
• 26:43
  and sort of business development side of it, because a lot of the
• 26:46
  kids that go to these programs are going to one day either
• 26:50
  inherit a family farm or run their own farm.
• 26:53
  So they have to learn the business side of it as well.
• 26:56
  So I liked the marketing side. So there we go.
• 26:59
  Okay, that's how we get from point A to point B.
• 27:02
  Wow, okay, so you adopted the marketing because of the
• 27:05
  business side and then you I take it you so did did that give
• 27:10
  you the same? We have to be careful how we
• 27:12
  answer this really because it's your job, right?
• 27:14
  Does that give you the same passion marketing as as as
• 27:17
  working in a kitchen did for example?
• 27:19
  It does, yes, because it is creative.
• 27:22
  Well, OK, Yeah. All right, all right.
• 27:25
  Here we go. Yes, it it is creative.
• 27:27
  And I, I think I I needed to latch on to that.
• 27:30
  But the reason that I chose it in the first place, your honesty
• 27:33
  here is because I just wanted to stay in the Netherlands.
• 27:36
  I didn't want to go back to the United States.
• 27:38
  For me, it seemed like going backwards.
• 27:41
  I I wanted to explore my new life in in the Netherlands, in
• 27:44
  Europe, and I didn't want to go back.
• 27:46
  But I knew I was going to lose the student visa.
• 27:48
  So I looked into visas I could get and being an entrepreneur
• 27:53
  was a choice for yeah, for, for Americans that want to move to
• 27:58
  the Netherlands. They really encourage business
• 28:00
  growth and and entrepreneurship here between the two countries.
• 28:03
  And so it was pretty easy to open an agency.
• 28:07
  I just, I had 50 bucks in my pocket.
• 28:09
  So I went to the thing and I gave them my business plan and
• 28:12
  paid for, you know, a business license here.
• 28:15
  And that was that. And and then I was like, well,
• 28:17
  now I have to learn how to market.
• 28:21
  Yeah. So you, you, you, you have your
• 28:23
  marketing agency which is successful, our paths crossed
• 28:27
  because you work alongside serious assessments.
• 28:32
  And for anyone that doesn't know, so we're looking about
• 28:35
  like exams. So tell me, tell me particularly
• 28:38
  what both of us and everyone else that's been on this podcast
• 28:41
  has been through. Why?
• 28:42
  Why is fairness and exams such an important mission for you
• 28:46
  personally? Yeah, fairness and exams is is
• 28:49
  very personal. You know, growing up being
• 28:52
  neurodiverse, I often felt like the system was stacked against
• 28:56
  me. Not because I wasn't capable or
• 28:59
  intelligent, but because of the way we were tested didn't fit
• 29:02
  how my brain worked. You know, it's a terrible
• 29:05
  feeling to sit in an exam hall and know the material I've
• 29:08
  studied. I know it.
• 29:10
  But this format just doesn't work for me or this the way the
• 29:14
  exam is set up and engineered. I just feel like it's not
• 29:17
  testing me on the right things and therefore I fail and I can't
• 29:21
  move on with a career. The whole the whole system is
• 29:24
  just lacking for neuro diverse students.
• 29:27
  And you know, and that's why it matters so much.
• 29:29
  An exam should measure what you know and what you can do, not
• 29:33
  how well you can sit still for three hours or navigate a system
• 29:37
  that wasn't designed with you in mind.
• 29:39
  You know, if someone worked hard and studied and they know the
• 29:42
  material and they've built the skills, they deserve a chance to
• 29:45
  show that on equal footing. So, you know, for me that being
• 29:49
  in this field now feels like a way of rewriting that story.
• 29:53
  I get to help build systems and, you know, hopefully influence a
• 29:57
  product that will help students have what I didn't have growing
• 30:01
  up. You've come full circle, right?
• 30:02
  Absolutely. Full circle, yeah.
• 30:04
  So do you think, do you think, do you think that traditional
• 30:08
  schooling could adapt better to serve, to serve brains like
• 30:13
  ours? You mean, I mean, what's your
• 30:15
  thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:16
  I do think that traditional schooling could do a lot more to
• 30:19
  support brains like mine, neurodiverse students, you know,
• 30:23
  being ADHD is not about being less intelligent.
• 30:26
  It's about how our brains handle focus and motivation and
• 30:29
  planning. Because of lower dopamine,
• 30:32
  dopamine activity, we struggle with sitting still.
• 30:34
  We always want that dopamine hit.
• 30:36
  So staying on task and waiting their turn.
• 30:38
  These are all things that delay dopamine.
• 30:40
  We just want it now. And yeah, that's why we're we're
• 30:42
  two to three times more likely to drop out or repeat grades as
• 30:46
  a kid, which can take a huge hit on your confidence.
• 30:50
  But I think if traditional schools for neurodiverse
• 30:53
  students, you can let kids move around or stand up.
• 30:57
  A lot of ADHD kids are fidgety and you know, you need sort of
• 31:00
  physical, physical space to move around, you know, talk to
• 31:05
  yourself. I know when I work from home, I
• 31:07
  look probably look like an insane person because I'm I'm
• 31:10
  walking around. If I really want to concentrate
• 31:12
  on something, I'll go stand in the kitchen and do other things
• 31:15
  while I'm thinking of what to write, or you know how to set up
• 31:18
  an ad, or you know how to how to building a.
• 31:23
  Slide deck. Presentation for a sales pitch,
• 31:26
  you know, it's I'll go and do other things, physical things,
• 31:29
  or I'll talk to myself, or I'll pretend like I'm talking to
• 31:33
  somebody in front of me. Yeah, I, I think, I think the
• 31:38
  journey you've been on is incredible.
• 31:40
  And you, you are without a doubt, you know, you, you have
• 31:43
  come full circle. And I think it's great how you,
• 31:46
  how you're now almost giving back to people like myself and
• 31:50
  you who, who, who are still suffering today.
• 31:53
  Really. You said about a kid that you
• 31:55
  mentioned the nude kid. So take, take yourself back to
• 31:58
  being 8 years old. Let's just go back to when you
• 32:01
  when you got your diagnosis, for example, what, what would you,
• 32:04
  what would you, what would you say to Christina when she was
• 32:07
  like, if you could whisper to yourself in your own ear, what
• 32:09
  would you say to yourself? Oh man, I don't want to say.
• 32:12
  That it gets better. It does, but not in the way that
• 32:14
  you think because you're always going to struggle you.
• 32:19
  Unfortunately, got. Life handed on hard mode and
• 32:23
  that's just the luck of the draw for you.
• 32:25
  And you're going to struggle with things your entire life and
• 32:27
  it's it's, it's it. But it will get better because
• 32:29
  you're going to learn that, yeah, you have coping
• 32:33
  mechanisms, You're going to spend a lot of your childhood
• 32:35
  trying to be other people. You're going to try to fit in by
• 32:40
  adopting mannerisms and personalities from other people
• 32:43
  and and learning how to mask and mirror.
• 32:45
  But when you realize that you are really cool and smart and
• 32:50
  talented, let your personality shine.
• 32:53
  And ADHD is not something to be ashamed of.
• 32:56
  It's going to make you stronger. Once you learn how to harness
• 32:59
  the good parts of it, you're going to realize how good you
• 33:03
  were all along. Your bass instinct isn't bad.
• 33:06
  You're not a monster. You're not slow.
• 33:08
  You're not the weird kid. Well, you are a little bit.
• 33:10
  But wait, it's. Good.
• 33:13
  Wait, it's good. I like weird.
• 33:15
  Nothing wrong with being weird. That's a beautiful word.
• 33:18
  You know that, right? And and anyone that's listening
• 33:21
  right now that's got a son or a daughter or someone that's
• 33:23
  struggling, just listen to those words.
• 33:25
  It will be it's not going to be better.
• 33:28
  It's going to be OK. This is the other question I ask
• 33:30
  everyone that comes on this podcast because they're not.
• 33:33
  What does thick no more mean to you personally?
• 33:35
  Yeah, think. You know, as a kid, being
• 33:41
  diagnosed, knowing you're different, different isn't good.
• 33:44
  When you're a kid, you want to fit in with your peers.
• 33:47
  You don't want to stand out because standing out means
• 33:49
  getting bullied and feeling othered and feeling broken.
• 33:54
  Yeah, you're, you have something that makes you not normal and
• 33:58
  it's scary. You don't want to go to the
• 33:59
  remedial classes. You don't want to, you know, be
• 34:02
  labeled as something that is something that creates a lot of
• 34:07
  shame for you because you're going to feel broken and you're
• 34:10
  going to feel slow and you're going to feel like damaged
• 34:13
  goods. But thick no more means
• 34:16
  realizing that that's not true. You're not damaged, you're not
• 34:19
  stupid. You just think differently and
• 34:21
  that's good. The world needs people who think
• 34:24
  differently. Difference is valuable.
• 34:26
  It's, it's a, it's a different perspective.
• 34:28
  You're going to make people see things in ways that, you know,
• 34:31
  they, they didn't think that way.
• 34:32
  And that's a good thing. Different is good and it's, it's
• 34:37
  about embracing that and, and, and just learning that different
• 34:41
  is good. Perfect.
• 34:44
  Amazing. Yeah, shedding the old shame.
• 34:46
  And and really embracing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:48
  It comes, it takes time. And once you realize that those
• 34:53
  labels that were chucked on you, they don't stick, you know?
• 34:55
  They're just words, you know? Absolutely.
• 34:57
  So I always allow people to reach out if anyone wants to get
• 35:01
  in touch with you, maybe for some marketing advice, maybe for
• 35:05
  some personal advice about ADHD, maybe to learn how to cook or to
• 35:08
  swim or farm. They get a hold of you.
• 35:14
  I am. Well, I'm on LinkedIn.
• 35:18
  Christina Gilbert, Cristina, I'm also on Gosh, this is also the
• 35:25
  one thing that I didn't prepare. Let me see, we can put we can
• 35:28
  put your LinkedIn details. On there and I can always send
• 35:31
  them your way and I'm sure people will come and come and
• 35:33
  chat to you. And one last question before
• 35:36
  before we close off. So what?
• 35:37
  What's next? Don't tell me you're going to go
• 35:40
  and build a skyscraper or something like that.
• 35:41
  But what's what's Yeah. Oh yeah, that would.
• 35:44
  Be. That would be something,
• 35:45
  wouldn't it? I mean, let's not rule that out
• 35:47
  now. No, let's not, you know.
• 35:50
  It's possible, right? Yeah.
• 35:51
  But I think what's? Next for me, you know, earlier
• 35:56
  in my life, gins really felt like where I was thriving
• 36:00
  personally, it was all about myself and and me was a very
• 36:03
  selfish sort of I get the structure that I need and and
• 36:06
  look at how well I'm doing and this is good for me.
• 36:09
  And now coming full circle at tech and, you know, being in the
• 36:14
  education sector is where I feel like I can help other people
• 36:18
  thrive. It's not about me anymore.
• 36:20
  It's about taking the skills that I've learned, the coping
• 36:24
  mechanisms, the life experience with living with ADHD.
• 36:27
  And then and it's giving back to other kids, parents, caterers,
• 36:31
  designing technology that really has someone like me in mind.
• 36:37
  And so, yeah, I think the the focus has has definitely shifted
• 36:41
  and I see myself continuing in that direction.
• 36:44
  I really want to, you know, I think I, where is, I think
• 36:49
  growing up hearing neurodiverse people are, are, are never going
• 36:53
  to, you know, thrive in careers like a neurotypical person
• 36:58
  would. I think that's, that's obviously
• 37:00
  false. You know, I think we can help
• 37:02
  influence. We have a, we have a brain that
• 37:05
  works differently than everybody else.
• 37:06
  So, you know, we, we, we really have a lot to gift the world of
• 37:11
  education in terms of perspective and designing
• 37:14
  technology and designing exams or learning platforms that
• 37:18
  really are inclusive for all students.
• 37:20
  So that's, I mean, I don't see myself going anywhere.
• 37:24
  That's the thing. I actually want to just thrive
• 37:27
  in this space and, and maybe help people.
• 37:30
  We really. Look forward to seeing seeing
• 37:32
  where your journey takes you. And I want to thank you for
• 37:36
  basically sharing so openly. And I think what I love most
• 37:40
  about the story is you've kind of shown odds stacked against a
• 37:44
  child and isn't the end of the story.
• 37:46
  It's actually the beginning to to a completely different one.
• 37:49
  And you've proved that your testament on the journey you've
• 37:51
  been on. Anyone that's listening really
• 37:53
  should should listen to this and, and realize that you, you
• 37:56
  know, Christina is actually proof that you can actually flip
• 37:59
  the script. You know, if anything's
• 38:00
  resonated with you and you want to reach out to Christina, the
• 38:03
  the the, her information will be in the show notes.
• 38:06
  You know, for me personally, I think we need to challenge
• 38:09
  stigma and share stories like this.
• 38:11
  We remind the world that being thick was never actually the
• 38:14
  truth. And and you've highlighted that.
• 38:16
  Lovely. So thank you so much, Christina.
• 38:18
  And, and remember everybody that I always tell you this, you
• 38:22
  know, you're not alone and you are actually thick no more.
• 38:25
  Thank you, Christina. Thank you so much for having me
• 38:27
  on. Jay, thank you for letting me
• 38:29
  tell my story. You're very welcome.