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Not saved not baptised · Walk Talk: Faith in Motion

• Randy: Alright, so some people say that you are not actually saved unless you've been baptized. Well, I would say maybe you're not baptized unless you've been saved. We're going to talk about that today and a whole lot more on this episode of the walk talk. All right, brother. Let's get into this. Pj Verdin: Yep, let's talk about it, man. Randy: All right. So hey, I'm I'm liking that we're, you know, getting some people who are open to sharing their testimony with us. It's been cool to, you know, kind of put out an online ask and have some people, you know, raise their virtual hands and say, Hey, if you're looking for someone to tell their story, I'll tell my story. If you're looking for a Christian, you know, business owner, entrepreneur, or someone who's just, you know, their faith impacts their work every day. Hey, I'm happy to come and share. So With that, I know you were weren't able to join when I interviewed Nathan Bush. but did you have a chance to catch up on it? Pj Verdin: Yeah, man, I I was able to watch it and you know I I appreciate Nathan, you know, coming on and sharing his time and his his testimony with us. And you know, it was it was I mean, another good interview, another good episode, you know, did kind of bring up some some things that, you know, I I I feel like I've experienced in my walk early on. I feel like there was been there were some things that kinda made me think about conversations that I've had with people before who were, you know, struggling or or dealing with certain things in certain ways and just a lot. It just kinda brought up a lot and and honestly, you know, I've I've had a a a few few people, you know, kind of reach out to me and and, you know, just with with some questions and stuff like that about about some of the things. And so it yeah, man, it's it's all it's all all good. Randy: Yeah, so I you know, I know you know, we've discussed this a few times, but when we do interview people, you know, we don't want to jump in and we don't want to overwhelm their story. We want to let them tell their story. And usually that generates a lot of thoughts, at least I know it does on my end, that I want to, you know, Pj Verdin: Sure. Randy: come back to later on without interrupting them too much and you know, taking Pj Verdin: Yeah. Randy: away from the story that they're trying to tell, which I I appreciate them coming on to share. And I appreciate, you know, Gina coming on and Nathan and other folks that we have lined up. but at the same time it generates a lot of things that, you know, I want to discuss that I I'm like, no, I'll wait and I'll save those things for later on because I want to respect their you know, time and be in and you know, take a time out of their day and let them tell their story. So I'm sure Pj Verdin: Right. Randy: I'm sure on your end it probably generated thoughts and things that you want to share as well. Pj Verdin: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And and I mean, truth be told, that happens whenever it's just me and you, on on an episode. I mean, there's a lot of Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: times, you know, when whenever we're engaged in a conversation and and you know, like we've talked about before, it it it happens so fast and every there's so much Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: condensed, you know, that that I feel like sometimes we we don't even get to go into certain things as deep. And so I I'll I'll re watch our our stuff every now and then and and and and and I'll be like, Man, you know, and so yeah, I mean a lot of things bring up questions for sure. Randy: Well we'll you know, when we're you know, we're trying to stick to a certain format, we're trying to stick within about an hour. And if we just kind of went wherever we, you know, feel like we, you know, might want to go, it'll be two, three, four hours sometimes. I mean, you know, we're still having conversations, you know, in between recording episodes that are going an hour Pj Verdin: Yeah. Yeah. Randy: or two sometimes. So it's like for the sake of the people listening, it's like we're trying to keep, you know, do our best to keep on topic. Pj Verdin: For sure. We might still be on the first episode. I mean, if it's you know what I mean? Like we just be still talking from then. It's just, you know, it is just because Randy: Right. Right. Right. Pj Verdin: I mean that that's that's what I love. Like that was kind of like, you know, one of the things that we talked about early on about whether or not even we're even doing this is like, man, like, you know sharing our walk is a daily thing. Cause our walk is a daily thing. You know what I mean? Everything new things Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: happen. Like, you know, and this is something that that you and I have talked about, you know, personally outside of the show is like, man, it it's crazy for me. I mean, we we haven't been doing this for a a a very long time, but it it's crazy for even me just personally to go back and look at like if I go watch our first episode, for me to sit here and know how much I've grown and how many things have become more clear. and and Randy: Mm. Pj Verdin: how some of my views have have changed a lot. And my understanding has changed a lot since since that very first episode, man. And it and it and it's cool to see, you know, like it I mean, obviously it's it's happened for me in real time. and and but yeah, man, it it's just it's cool. And and and I guess that that's that's a kind of a cool thing for anybody who has been watching f since the beginning to be like, wow, man, like you know, that that's what that's what this walk looks like. You know what I mean? That's what transformation looks like. That's what you know our minds always being renewed looks like. So Randy: Right. Yeah. Well yeah, it that's exactly right. And and one of the things that, you know, I also want to just clarify too is that, you know, we let people come on, we want them to tell their story. And, you know, just like you and I, you know, we try to like, you know, we we might try to highlight the points where we agree or maybe where we disagree a little bit, but we try not to make this a a conversation where we're debating each other or arguing about things. Same thing when we have other people come on, we're not here to debate them or argue with them. There's definitely times where you know we're gonna have people share things that we don't completely align with, or maybe it's the way we used to see things before we fully understand the gospel. Again, it's not a debate show. This is just a conversation, and you know, we let people tell their story, and it's definitely gonna, you know, stir up feelings and generate thoughts that we've had before. And like you said, you could look back and see this progression and this growth and this maturity that's happened. in in your own on your own walk with God and I and I could see it in mine as well. And you know, when I'm having these conversations with other people, either things that they say or things that were said to them usually will remind me of similar things that I've heard. Like for example, Pj Verdin: Right. Randy: you know, one of the things that I remember, you know, I remember hearing you know, when when Nathan was talking about, you know, how a pastor was basically telling him, I think it was a pastor that, you know, you have to you know, Be baptized. If you're not baptized, you know, I kind of got the impression that he was saying, if you're not baptized, you're not saved. And I could tell you firsthand, and we've talked about this a little bit, people have told me things like that. People have gone even further and said, Not only, you know, do you have to be say baptized to be saved, but you have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, meaning speak in tongues to be saved. Pj Verdin: Yeah. Randy: And I've had people, you know, pastors, other believers tell me all kinds of crazy things like that and other things similar. that made me feel like I wasn't saved, I wasn't a Christian, I wasn't, you know, right with my walk with God. And and it's just so confusing early on. You know, we're not pastors, we're not priests, we're not Bible scholars. Pj Verdin: It can be. Yeah. Randy: And so it's very easy to be confused. Pj Verdin: Hundred percent. It can be very confusing. Especially you know, th that's the thing. This walk with the Lord is it's so tricky, man. It's it's it's you know, it's n it's dislike a whole lot of other things, right? Like I mean, you you know, there's there's certain people that, you know, hold a title that you trust, like I I mean You know, you you trust that that somebody in the NBA is good at basketball. You know what I mean? Like you you you trust that, you know, a doctor knows knows more about your health than you do and it et cetera, so on and so forth. But man, the the thing about it is is is that's not how it works all always necessarily with a a a somebody has with the title of a pastor or or priest or whatever, what have it it's so It is a little bit tricky, but we we still a lot of times and especially early on whenever we're trying to figure this out, it's like, okay, well, you know, if I wanna learn how to get my finances together, I'm gonna go talk to a CPA or something. So you you you learn about God and you're like, you what? well I guess I need to talk to a a pastor or a priest. And and and you have the same expectation, like they're gonna they're gonna, you know, lay it all out for me and and it'll be black and white just like everything else and I'll know what I have to do. And that's just not the case, man. That's just not. Randy: Well, and you bring up you bring up a really interesting point. And what it made me think about is, you know, like when you mentioned like a doctor, like I would I would think most people would want to trust a doctor, you know, health, you know, or with their with their physical health. But even then, not everything the doctor might, you know, suggest might be beneficial for them. I mean, we know like for example, like diet, like what you eat is not it's not for everybody. Like not everyone you know, is gonna react the same eating the same kind of foods. One person might be in their best health health eating like a Mediterranean diet. One person might be in their best health eating a carnivore diet. Someone else might be able to pretty much eat, you know, either, you know, everything, but if as long as they eat it in moderation, they're pretty good. But we're all different physically and we all have to be treated individually. And to a certain a certain extent, you know, it's the same thing with our spiritual life and our spiritual walk. Pj Verdin: Right. Randy: And and that might not be intuitive for most people because most people might look at it like, no, wait a second, like a sin is a sin, it's black and white, etc. But like we talked about previously, like with just the issue of like eating meat, sacrifice to idols, right? And and you know how you could extrapolate that across a multitude of different areas in a person's life. There might be things that God has called one person to do that He has not called another person to do. And and that's where the individuality comes in, and we have to all wrestle with God and our own faith on a on a one on one basis. Pj Verdin: Yep. And and I mean I think that there's even, you know, following the analogy of of you know, trusting a doctor with your health, like there's a reason why there's something called a getting a second opinion. And and and Randy: Exactly. Pj Verdin: and to circle back to, you know, the idea of needing to be baptized in order to be saved and all that stuff. I mean, i it you can get in there and and you know it's pretty explicit with this of the apostles or explain it. But I mean like, you know, like I always say, the very first person that was basically saved, right? The day of the the crucifixion, Jesus said today, you'll be with me in heaven was not baptized. Right. So so Randy: Thief on the cross. Yeah. Pj Verdin: you know, I would just say, just think about these things, man. Like you know, I actually you know what that just made me think of? I came across an interesting fact the other day. And we might need to actually look this up for it to be accurate. But I wanna say, Randy: What got? I'll start looking. Pj Verdin: I wanna say that the statistic for Protestants and Catholics that have read the Bible in their entirety in its entirety, I wanna say the the percentage is something like twenty, maybe thirty percent of Protestants. Claim that they've read the whole Bible. Randy: 17%, it says. So you were pretty close. Have read Pj Verdin: Wow. okay. Randy: the entire Bible. About one third have read all or most of it. And 50% have read half of it. So, so let me just say that again. 17% Pj Verdin: So that that's a that is a Randy: have read the whole thing. One third have read all or most. So I they they must have done some sort of survey where they said, Have you read all or most? And someone people said, Yeah, most of it. Pj Verdin: O of that of that 17%, probably. Of that seventeen percent, a third of them are saying that well, I mean I've read most of it, I guess. But but Randy: Most of it, yeah. Pj Verdin: but the thing about it is is that's staggering, bro. You you think about it, what that tells you exactly is that seventeen percent of people have read it. The other what is that? freaking eighty three percent. are are are basing their eternity or their eternity and their knowledge and relationship with God or or or or things of the Bible based on something else somebody's telling them. Don't know for themselves Randy: Okay. Okay, you ready for the next stat? Fifteen to twenty-five percent actually read it daily, with about thirty percent saying that they only read it about once a week. Pj Verdin: And look, man, I I'm not sitting here claiming that I read my Bible every day. I do, I do not. you know, I I mean I I spend time with the Lord every day. but do I read my Bible every day? I don't. You know what I mean? I I I could be better at with that. But what I will tell you is this like there are times whenever like I'm I'm I again, I guess this is this is just me, and and not to say this is right or wrong. But this is just me. I don't read my Bible every day. I don't have like a set 15 minutes like, well, I gotta get in my 15 minutes of Bible reading today. There there might be two or three, four days will go by and I I don't even touch my Bible. And then there are days whenever I feel like the Lord puts something on my heart and I have to force myself to put my Bible down because I'm digging in one thing leading to another, to another, and I feel like the Lord the Lord is just Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: like all over me, growing me, showing me. And I'm like just deep in it. So I mean, there's a it's a duality, I guess. Randy: Let me just clarify. So the first stat, the seventeen percent of Americans have read the entire Bible, that comes from the annual state of Bible reporting from the American Bible Society. And then the other stat about people reading daily, that was a pew pew research poll. so that's where those numbers are coming from. And and let me just jump in and say that look, I I love what Andrew Farley says this you know, a lot of Christians think they're getting quote unquote closer to God. The more they read the Bible. How do you you're getting closer to God? Because I'm reading my Bible every day. We got to recognize that for the first few hundred years, Christians didn't have a Bible. The New Testament didn't exist till the 300s, right? So they were maybe lucky if they had a letter from one of the apostles. Maybe lucky if they had one. And then they were even luckier if they had that in combination with, you know. the the law and the prophets and and you know what's now considered the old testament so for a lot of early church history they didn't have a quote unquote bible and even if they did have a Bible they a lot of them weren't even literate to even be able to read their Bible. So in modern Christianity we tend to judge each other and judge ourselves on how much we read it. And you know that has nothing to do with whether or not you are one with God, if you are one with Jesus If you have the spirit living inside of you, that that's not to judge anybody, but at the same time, we are privileged to live in the year 2026. We are privileged to not only have Bibles easily available on our phones and bookstores online. Pj Verdin: Access, yes. Randy: We have the access, we have all the different versions and translations, and still, even though we have all the access, a lot of Christians still fail. To study it for themselves, even though they go to churches. If if they're anything like the churches I've been to, every church I've been to, pretty much, the pastor said things like, Don't take my word for it, go read the Bible for yourself. You know, this shouldn't be the only time you're hearing the word of God. You know, this this, you know, if this is all that there is, like you're you're you're missing something. And, you know, it's still the the the data tells us that it's not happening like it should, right? Pj Verdin: Right. Well, and then, you know, what what you see almost everywhere you look is and and and and I love it. It's a it's a blessing too there are so many people out there, you know, that are so knowledgeable on this Bible. And and I I see, you know, people come across my my timeline all the time. I mean, like there's there is I I think it's a actual term called a Bible nerd. And I'm like, that's dope. You know what I mean? Like somebody who just knows their Bible. Man, I've seen these things where like these kids like are are on this show and like a game show and they got like these judges like just picking random scripture like hey look you know j just to make it easy one John three sixteen can you give me the the ESV version? And like these kids will like, you know, be able to rattle it off like any anything that you throw at I'm like, man, this is cool. Anyways, I I say all that to say this, like You see these people who spend this time in the word and and and and actually reading it and understanding it and letting the Holy Spirit guide through guide them through this whole process. And and then you see people arguing with them, like, no, that's not right. And they're like, well, show me where it's not show where what I'm telling you is in the Bible. And they're like, well, no, but the pastor of the church that I go to, and you're like, okay, well, you can't show me in the Bible because you don't know, because you don't, you've not checked, but I do know. I know what the Bible says. You know what I mean? But you see Randy: Mm-hmm. Right. Pj Verdin: these these these minds of these people who are very well versed in their Bible. And I'm not saying that that, you know, that there's a lot of people who who could quote the Bible back and forth on on both sides of arguments. That's not my point. I'm just saying it's funny to see somebody who's never even held a Bible in their hands start trying to tell these same people like, you're wrong about that. You're wrong about that. Like it just it blows my mind. Randy: Right, right, exactly. Yeah, it it blows my mind too. And I and I do think that again, not judging anyone for reading it or not reading it, you know, or being a nerd, a Bible nerd, or not being a Bible nerd or Bible enthusiast or hobbyist or whatever you want to call it. but if you do take your faith in you know seriously, if you do take your walk with Jesus seriously, then you probably wanna know what's in there. You probably have a hunger and desire. I know I have since You know, since I first accepted Christ, I've had a hunger and desire to know what was in there. And the more I learned, the more discernment I felt like I had, and the more questions I had, and then the more I learned because I had more questions. And then, you know, I found, you know, tough topics where I got to the end of my understanding and I had to seek out, you know, better understanding and either read a book or listen to a a sermon on it or ask questions of people that I knew. And Like it's just a lifelong journey of just pursuing, you know, the knowledge of God and just the understanding of what the Bible is actually, you know, telling us. And it's not always a hundred percent clear because context is important, and you know, things were written at a certain time in a certain culture to a certain group of people. And you know, it's important to understand all those aspects to really get the full message because we know there's so many. Different levels of understanding and layered learning that happens. And sometimes there's some confusion when you only read things on the surface. And I could tell you, you know, personally, I've I've heard so many attacks on the scriptures from atheists and skeptics who say, Well, the Bible says this, and how could your God, if He's a God of love, do that? And it's like, well, you gotta understand too that there's this whole thing where you know, a lot of the Bible was told orally for a long time before it was written down. And that means they condense things and they left out things that at the time didn't seem important that sometimes would answer a lot of those questions that the skeptics had if they had been written down. And so where do we have it written down? We have it written down in other traditions and other books that support the Bible. and it because it's not part of the canon and it's not like you know considered the inspired word of God, a lot of times those things get ignored, but a lot of times it answers a lot of the very questions that skeptics have. So even if you just take the Bible in in its you know at face value, you know, cover to cover, even then it's not enough. It's it's we gotta be hungry. We gotta be hungry for what the word of God tells us. We gotta be having these conversations like you and I are having now and and like I hope are generating with other people. and we gotta be willing to, you know, speak respectfully. to people in authority when we think that they are not correct, when they are misinterpreting, when they're not going deep enough, when they're not humble enough to admit when they might be wrong or they might need some instruction. I think those are all good and healthy things for us to do as believers who really care about the truth. Pj Verdin: Yep. Absolutely, Ben. And and and I could tell you this this came from a direct conversation that I had with someone and this guy and I hadn't seen each other or talked in in a in a very long time. But we had worked together a couple of years back and and you know, I I had saw on social media that it seemed like he had given his life to the Lord and you know I'm I'm I'm seeing these posts and I'm like, Man, amen. Glory to God. Randy: Awesome. Pj Verdin: Well like one one day he reaches out to me and you know, he just was going through some things, wanted to share his heart, wanted to have a conversation. So I was all about it. So we did that and and so like man, he's just, you know, kind of telling me about it and he's like, Man, he's like, I just wanna let you know. He's like, you know, I'm I'm I'm praying and he's like, you know, I'm trying to use my discernment for you know, for this. But he's like, Sometimes, you know, I I thought that that You know, that's how I got to this point was by using my discernment and and he's like, you know, now I feel like I was wrong. Maybe I read it wrong. And I'm like, Huh man, I said, you know, I don't know. And I was like and I don't even remember how it came about, but I was like, you know, I was like, I was like, so like have you have you read the whole Bible? You know what I mean? And he was like, No. And I was like, Well, how You know, like you you're throwing out these big church words like discernment. Hey, I'm I'm praying and I'm using my discernment and I'm like, Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: so you are what are what are you checking this against though? You know what I mean? Like you know, I I yeah, you Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: it it's like, you know, if you don't know what the word of God says, then I you don't understand, you know, you don't you don't have a a full clear picture of his character and his heart. And yes we have his helper, but I mean, again, same same characteristics, you know what I mean? It's like which which will will I think be more easier to identify whenever it's dealing with you and talking to you whenever you you have a better idea of of who he is. So it was just crazy. Randy: Right, right. Pj Verdin: But but so it just made me think and and again, you know, it I mean, I agree with you, you know, not saying that that that reading the Bible is an end all be all, but I mean I think about it the in in the same way, right? You could say, well I can I could have a good relationship with God and and never never read it. And and and that that might might hold true. But in the same way as as like think about that as like speed dating, right? Like you meet somebody like, hey, what's your name? I'm such and such. Hey, hey, would you like to date that? Versus like, you know, whenever you meet somebody who you get excited about and you you want to stay on the phone all night just talking about them, learning them all the thing. You know what I mean? Like we I I think for the majority of us in relationships, we we've experienced that that point. And it's like, well, reading the Bible is is kind of like experiencing that with God, like getting to know him. Like w you know, like so I I do Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: think it's important. Randy: Yeah, I I agree. I agree. And you know, I I think that I think like I said earlier, I think discernment does come with, you know, knowing it, knowing the verses, actually like memorizing it, or at least like, you know, not even not even if you don't memorize it, like just understanding what it's saying in general, right? Because like I'm not a big fan personally, like I can't name off of a bunch of scripture like references and say You know, this passage says this. I know the verses. I couldn't tell you where to find most of them without looking it up, but I know generally what it says. But even going beyond that, you get more understanding, more discernment by digging deeper. And for me, everything that I believe that the Bible's saying, I I filter through two lenses. And the first lens is the lens of the gospel. And, you know, my understanding of the gospel, which is more than just, you know. For God so loved the world and gave his only son, right? That whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. Like to me, the gospel is much deeper than that. The gospel is starts with the bad news and it ends with the good news. The bad news, we've all sinned, we all fall short of the glory of God. Therefore, all of us are born spiritually dead, which is, in other words, we're born in the image of Adam. And the only way that we could ever Have the life of God given back to us, which is what Adam lost, is by the finished work of Christ, by believing that Jesus is who he says he is, that he actually did die to forgive us of our sins, and that our sin is dealt with forever. Past, present, and future sins is dealt with. It's forgiven, it's washed away. And therefore, if we simply believe, we will receive the Spirit of God who will indwell us. And and I that's my understanding of the gospel in a nutshell. I went through it very quickly, right? And and but that's my understanding of it. So when I hear people preach things or they interpret passages that tell me that no, I don't have the spirit of God because of XYZ, I filter it, filter it out. Or if I hear people say, Well, you know, I still need forgiveness for my sins, when I know my sin had to be forgiven for me to ever receive the spirit of God, I filter it out. I know that all my sins are forgiven. I filter everything out, right? If if so if any Pj Verdin: You need to be baptized, water baptized. Randy: Yeah, if if I need to do anything to be saved, I filter it out, right? And then I and then and then the second thing I filter everything through is the lens of was it old covenant or new covenant? Because God had a plan. There was something He was doing with the Old Covenant, and it was basically all types and shadows. Everything in the old covenant was to point to Jesus. Everything in the new covenant points backwards to Jesus. The old covenant pointed forward to Jesus, the new points backward to Jesus. So Pj Verdin: Amen. Randy: I can't take anyone who preaches any kind of law, any kind of Moses. I can't take that and without, you know, without without filtering it out. I filter it out because my understanding is the the new covenant didn't start when you turn the page from Malachi to Matthew when it says new covenant. The new covenant didn't start right there with the birth of Christ. We know that new that the covenants are only brought about through blood. Jesus lifted the cup and said, This is the blood. This is my new the new covenant in my blood. Right, Jesus said those words. So that tells me everything up until the point of Jesus' death was part of the old covenant system. And everything from the resurrection forward is part of the new covenant system. Therefore, when I hear people preaching things that are old covenant teachings in a new covenant context, I filter it out. So to me, my discernment comes from understanding those two things first and then filtering every Bible verse that I read through those two lenses, every sermon I hear. Through those two lenses, every conversation I have about the gospel, about Jesus, about faith, about any you know, book of the Bible, theory, prophecy, etc., I filter it to those two things. How does it line up with the gospel? And how does it line up with my understanding of the new covenant? And if if something doesn't feel right there, then I either have a question or I or I have to filter it out, or it's it takes deeper study and deeper conversation. And and this is where a lot of our conversations have have spawned from because I think you're going through a similar process where you're like, well, wait a second. How does this verse in James fit in with the idea that the work is finished? Right. How does this idea, you know, in whatever book, you know, mesh well with the idea that I don't have to, I have to do anything more than rest or that my sins are still forgiven, even if I sin tomorrow? And it's like, it generates a lot of good conversation and a lot of good discussion. And to me, those are the two two lenses I filter everything through. That's where my discernment comes from. Pj Verdin: Absolutely. And and and I mean that's that's a a a solid place for anybody's a a solid way for anybody to filter those things through, honestly. I and I wish that that more people would. I mean that's my literal l literally my heart for for our Christian brothers and sisters because too often what I see is you know, or here even is is a hybrid mixture between old and new covenant. I I unfortunately see a lot of people who do not understand their new identity in Christ that he gives us that's part of the the the process. I see I see too many people who still have this transactional relationship with God instead of just a relationship where it's like, hey, listen, you know what, God, I'm gonna do this for you and then you're gonna do this for me. Or I'm getting this because I did this for you. Or, you know, you died for me. So now I have to XYZ for you. And and it's like, okay, man, those things all sound super spiritual and super good, but they're wrong if you want to go according to the Bible. the word of God. You know, it it's something else. You know, and and I one thing that I I've really enjoyed in in in some of my deep diving man is and I think I've I've talked about this before, but it's going and and looking at the actual words, what they meant in Greek or what they meant in Aramaic. You know what I mean? I I really don't go go too much to to the to the Hebrew because that's more Old Testament stuff. Every now and then I'm interested to see. But but you know, I I I try to I and and and just I guess to come full circle and preface, I I have done this before and and and I'd I'd I think that it's it's bad advice in my opinion. But, you know, people who whenever I I read the Bible, I read it cover to cover and I I just I didn't know any better. I thought that that was the best way to do it. And that's what I've advised other people to do. I would I today, if you ask me today, hey man, I look, I you know what I decided I need to read my Bible, I would say start in the New Testament. You know what I mean? and and yeah, then you can go back and reference the old testament just for for point of reference, but I would say to start in the New Testament, you know what I mean? We the the crazy thing is is even starting from the beginning, reading from Genesis to Revelations, we I now know, which I didn't in the beginning, that that's not in chronological order. So thinking that you're reading it just like any other book from start to finish is is already not in the right order. So I would definitely say, man, get in that New Testament and and shoot really. Maybe start after start after John, even you know what I mean? And and and then Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: go go back, you know, start in in the actual New Covenant, not the New Testament. And then just but but yeah man, that would be my advice just to as as a side note. But yeah man, Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: I do it breaks my heart man to see, you know, I and I mean I see it all the time. Like so so many many brothers and sisters in Christ who are just still seem like they're so lost or or like they still have this scared straight relationship with with God like man like if I don't do this he he's gonna punish me or he's gonna be upset with me. You know what I mean? And and it it it it almost reminds me of you you remember you remember the the Jim Carrey Bruce Almighty Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: Right. Remember what what did he say? God's just a mean kid with a magnifying glass and on the hand. You know what I mean? And it's like man, and that sounds silly, you know, whenever we say it like in the context of a Jim Carrey movie, and I and I know it's, you know, probably got some laughs, but it's like realistically, you know, people may not use those same words, but that's kinda how it it they describe their relationship with God. And I'm like, man, I feel like you you don't you don't understand him, then you don't know him really. Because like we we've said before, like God is love. And Paul's really clear in Corinthians about what those characteristics of that that loving God looks like. You know what I mean? And Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: and and Jesus himself, like we were talking about earlier, you know, w told people the stuff that they didn't want to hear. He's like, you know, if somebody sues you s for your tunic, give them your jacket too. If they ask you to go a mile, go two miles. Does that sound like a God who who's like, what, you didn't do what? Okay. I got something for you. That's not our father, bro. That's not the Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: that's not the loving God that I serve. Randy: Yep. Yeah, 100%, man. And I think you you bring up a good point. a lot of times when I'm talking with people, it's very easy to sense that they don't quite understand who they are in Christ. They don't understand. It's it's we don't spend enough time talking about our new identity in Jesus Christ. The Bible says that if you are in Christ, you are forgiven. You are forgiven of all your sins, past, present, and future. He no longer sees your sin. He separated you as far as your the east is from the west, not just Pj Verdin: It is from the west, yep. Randy: the sins you committed up to the point that you accepted him, all your sin that you will ever commit. He is an eternal God who sees everything, past, present, and future. And he has separated you from every sin that you're ever going to commit. It says that we are redeemed, we're justified, we are adopted, we are made part of his family, we're made new, we're set free, we're God's workmanship, we're we're part of his body, we're an heir. Of God and alive to God, dead to sin. I mean, the Bible goes on and on about who we are in Jesus. We're a new creation, the old has has passed away, the the new has come. I mean, we are literally sons of God, we are children of God if we are in Christ Jesus, and we are heirs, we are heirs, and we have the the the power of the Holy Spirit, the eternal God living in our bodies, right? I mean, what more could we Pj Verdin: Amen. Yeah. Randy: ask for? How much closer. To God, can we get than that? And I think most Christians, if you heard me saying these things, would generally agree with probably all of it. But then through various different teachings or interpretations of certain passages or feelings that they may feel, because we know feelings are always the best thing to go by, right? They're going to start to back away from some of those things. You know, they commit a sin and they feel bad. And now they go and they ask God to forgive them again because now they feel like they're not forgiven. Now they feel like God might be mad, mad at them or You know, they lose their job or someone, you know, close to them gets sick or passes away. And now they think, well, you know, is God judging me? Is God like, you know, punishing me? You know, He disciplines those He loves, right? So I must be getting disciplined by God. And we forget that no, we are totally forgiven, that we are, you know, we are sanctified, we are purified, we are holy, we are set apart. God is not looking to discipline and judge us at all. He he's not looking to do that at all, but we start to. You know, back away from what we believe. And the best thing I ever heard is we know this in our hearts because we've been given a new heart. We just needed to go from our hearts to our heads. And most people get it opposite. Most pastors I hear say, You know this, this is head knowledge, but we needed to make the one foot trip from your head to your heart. No, it's the opposite. God has given you a new heart if you are a believer, but we don't always allow what's in our heart to move up to our heads. And become a new way of thinking, a renewed mind. That's why Paul said, be transformed by the renewing of your mind, because your heart's already been transformed. You already Pj Verdin: That's right. Randy: have his word written on your heart, his law written on your heart, right? It's your mind that really needs to be renewed. And that's why, you know, we have to focus on learning, understanding the scriptures. That's going to lead to spiritual growth. And then that's going to help our mind to be transformed. And that's going to help us to really understand. Who we are in Christ. Pj Verdin: Right. And and and it it seems so simple, man, but it I and I get it, it is hard because we've been conditioned and taught and learned even even before we even know Christ, what we know of Christ or of churches is is is backwards in my opinion, for the most part. You know, and whenever you get into these situations where you're like, man, I know I haven't my track record sucks lately, then you start Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: you you go back to identifying yourself based on the old man that's died, that died with Christ. You know what mean? And and Randy: Right. Right. Pj Verdin: and and your first thought is not my new identity in in who I am in in Christ. You know what mean? And and and it and then everything after that is is a domino effect that spirals down based off of who you think you are instead of who you know you've been made because of of what Jesus did. You know, like you said, f yeah and and that's a that's another thing that I I've talked about with with many people, you and I have talked about it. Like, you know, in that same mindset, you know, most Christians would I if I say, Hey, can you follow your heart as a Christian? They would say, No, your heart is wicked above all things. I'm like, Your it was, but you Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: know, salvation, this grace through this faith, the second covenant, right? That looking through that lens now says that I have a a new heart. Of flesh, not of stone. That like you said, Randy: Right. Right. Pj Verdin: God's word and his law is written on, which is what's his law? To love. Love as he's loved us. You know what I mean? Simple plain and simple. And it's like, okay, man, but we we it it's so easy for us to fall back. And it's so easy for man, I I see it all the time, these these scriptural acrobatics of we start out and it's like, yeah, look, you're you're you're saved. You're delivered, you're chosen, you know, you're you're renewed, you're transformed, you're you know, equipped, you're all these things. And then they'll throw in out something. But if you go look in Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: in in in you know first Samuel, Saul had the spirit of God, but it left him. Why? Because he Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: he wasn't obedient. The Holy Spirit doesn't leave us. God said it plain, I'll never leave you nor forsake you. Once once you're in this new covenant, that's God's word. And he don't go back on his word. We know that. You know what I mean? So it's just period. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And we yeah, he he just Randy: Yeah, that's right. And it's his word to himself. He's making the promise to him. Right? So it's from God to God. And we're just sandwiched in the middle. We have no part of it. Pj Verdin: taking us along for the ride because he loves us that much. Period. Randy: Yeah, the old covenant was between him and us and we failed, you know, him and Israel to be specific. And Israel failed over and over again. And so he said, Well, hey, this next covenant, like I gotta take the weakest link out of the equation, which is you, and I'm gonna put it myself in there. And so the new covenant's not between God and man, it's between God and God. And you know, that's that's you know, why he came as a man, so he could be that other side of the covenant. So, you know, we're not we're not relying on a nation. To be perfect and holy and uphold the law. We're not relying on ourselves to be perfect and holy and keep the commandments. It's already been done. And if Pj Verdin: Or sure, not yeah. Randy: we are in Christ and it's been done for us, if we are in Christ, we get the victory. The janitor gets a super bowl ring. Every player that sat on the bench gets a super bowl ring. The owner, the manager, everybody, the water boy gets a super bowl ring. Not just the guy who scored the winning touchdown. Everyone who's part of the organization gets the ring. And there's so many Christians who don't want to put on their Super Bowl ring that Jesus went out and won for us because they're still out there trying to all by himself. There's there's they're Pj Verdin: All by himself. He wa he was he was the whole team. Randy: still trying to, they're still out there, you know, trying to trying to run into the end zone. And it's like they they don't want to understand that, like, no, it's like this is not you trying to make it to the end zone, and every time you sin, it's a five yard penalty. That's not what Pj Verdin: Right. Randy: your your spiritual walk is. Your spiritual walk is you not trying to kick a field goal and and every time you go and kick it, you know, the Lucy in the form of Satan comes and pulls the ball right out from from in front of you and you fall on your on your butt. No, your spiritual walk is Jesus already scored infinite points and the enemy scored zero. We already won. We got the Super Bowl ring, and you don't gotta do nothing now. All you do all Pj Verdin: We're not Randy: you gotta do is just be part of the team. And if you don't wanna be part of the team, you don't get the ring. It's that simple. Pj Verdin: Yeah, we're we're not on we're not on fourth down and a million yards to go. You know what I mean? For all the five yard sin penalties. You know. Randy: Right, right. And so there's nothing you need to do. You don't need to you don't look, bapt baptism is great. Okay. To me, that's like buying the jersey. You I'm a Saints fan, you're a Saints fan. I got the Saints on the wall behind me. You know what I mean? If someone wants to say, Man, Randy, you you a big Saints fan, how come you don't at least buy a jersey, dude? Like I would say, Yeah, that's probably a good point. I probably should get a jersey. Like, you know, I I should I should w Pj Verdin: Rep the team. Randy: wear one or a hat. Like I'm part of the team, like, right? Like That's not a bad thing. Maybe I'll go and do that. To me, that's what baptism is. It doesn't make a difference, you know, it the in the in the grand scheme of things. This is not you, you know, or you're saved at the moment of baptism any more than you become a Saints fan the second you put on a jersey. It's like something that's already internal to you, but Pj Verdin: It's an outward it's an Randy: but but go ahead and do it. It's a good thing to do. Pj Verdin: Yep, it's an outward expression of an inward change, basically. It's it's it. It it's the Randy: Exactly. Now Pj Verdin: same it's the same thing as as as wearing a wedding ring. The wedding ring is not what makes you married. It's just a a symbol Randy: E exactly. Exactly. Pj Verdin: that shows that you are for for anybody else to be able to readily Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: identify. That's it. Randy: Now now I will grant you that, you know, if you are that type of person that like you maybe were struggling, you know, to really embrace your faith or you were feeling a little un insecure or unsure of your faith and baptism like helped you firm that up, then then praise God. Glory to God. I mean, I I could see that again with the analogy, man. If I'm a Saints fan and like You know, I'm walking around with a bag on my head today, and tomorrow we win the Super Bowl and I get a jersey. I'm gonna probably walk around a little bit different. It's probably gonna look a little different. I'm gonna feel different inside when I take that bag off my head that says ain't on it, and I put that jersey on it that says breeze. I'm probably gonna feel a little bit different, and it's probably gonna show up a little bit different as I go and talk to people about you know how big of a fan I am. I totally get that. And for some people, that's what baptism does for them. For some people, Pj Verdin: Yeah. Yeah. Randy: They might be in this space of like, man, maybe the Holy Spirit's working. Maybe I'm a little unsure. Maybe I got too many questions and I'm not, I don't really understand it. And then they go to get baptized. And for them, it's like, bam, that's that's all I needed. I needed to just take a step. I needed to take an action. Totally get that. I totally get that. That's how some people react to bat baptism. And that's and that's great. I think we should all do it. I think if you are a believer, you should get baptized, even if you were sprinkled as a baby, you know, in a Catholic church or whatever denomination. I do believe you should do it, but that's not what saves you. Pj Verdin: Absolutely. Amen. A hundred percent. And look, man, you know, I I'll I'll say this as well. Like, man, I I know, right, where we we we understand that that God does reward obedience, right? So the obvious conclusion to draw would be that he punishes disobedience, right? Now, I mean w you you you can see some of those examples in in a in a lot of old testament stuff, but it's funny because even back then you see God having the these these back and forth with Moses where he's like, here goes these people again. You know what? I'm about to have to do this. Moses and and what does Moses do? He pleads and God concedes. He's like, you know what? You're right. I'm gonna give him another chance. Goes to show you how loving he is. But anyways, my my point is this. So I I I think about because I again I don't subscribe to the idea of my Heavenly Father knowing the the amount of love that He's already shown us being up there waiting to punish us for not doing the right thing or not doing what He wants or you know, I I think about it like this. Okay. If your walk with God is like a garden, right? That God gives you and and He says, Listen, I want you to be obedient. And and I want you to take care of this garden. You know what? You gotta tend to it daily. You gotta pull all the weeds out. You gotta make sure you're watering the seeds. You gotta spend some time being obedient and and and and taking obedient to my wishes, which is taking care of this garden. Right? So if you do, then you're gonna see, you know, fruits and you know, multiplying, you're gonna you're gonna see all the things. Now, on the other hand, if you're not ob not obedient. to to what he told you, hey, take care of my garden. Then if nothing grows and you know it it it rots and withers away and and ultimately in the long run to get it to where it needs to be takes a lot more work than if you would have just kept up with it. Is that God punishing you or is that a result of what you weren't doing? You see what I'm saying? That's not God saying, Randy: Mm-hmm. yeah. Pj Verdin: wow, you didn't listen to me. Well guess what? Now this is gonna happen. No, God is like, hey, listen, I I you have a new heart. You have my Holy Spirit, the helper, living inside of you. You have everything that you need for joy, happiness, peace, love. You have you have everything that you need Randy: Life and godliness. Pj Verdin: 100%. You have it all. Now, whether or not you you you choose to to cultivate those things through your obedience, man, you know, it's not gonna be an easy life, but it's gonna be a peaceful, blessed life. You know what I mean? Through the right perspective. Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: But but if you don't, then I'm not I'm not sitting here with the ruler or with the belt waiting to spank you. You're just going to see the lack of results in that and that's that's your punishment. That's not God saying, wait, wait till you get home, wait, wait till you see what he that that wrath is not there. I if if he still wanted to have vengeance and and wrath against us, then he would have never came into the the form of a human and died for us. If that's what he wanted. Like I just don't see it. And so this this idea of these people like and I again I get it. This is this is me preaching to to my old self, bro. You know what I mean? Like I I I even I thought about this whenever I put this hat on today. I was like, you know what? I used to love the saying, man, faith over fear. And and I remember somebody asked me, and I you know, I was still like getting getting new to this, you know, my actual walk. Like being v invested and excited about my relationship with God and and they were like, well what what does faith over fear mean? And and I I was super proud of myself. I was like, man, you know, it it's it's me being more afraid of of of not sharing God or or my faith in God than than I am of what you'll think of me. That's what faith over fear means to me. And I was super proud of that. You know what it means to me today? It it it it it means to me that this is this is how I got saved by grace through my faith, not my fear. I wasn't scared into like, Randy: Mm. Pj Verdin: I don't want to go to hell. I was like, man, I got faith in Jesus because he you know, I understand who he is, I understand what he did. And and I put my Randy: Mm. Pj Verdin: faith in God now. I'm not afraid of you I I guess if I'm if I'm fearful of of of of something is is Well, I I mean I have a reverence a reverential fear for the for the Lord, but I'm just saying like I don't have that like, man, I I'm I wanna believe in God 'cause I'm afraid of hell or or because I I Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: I think that God's gonna punish me or because of X, Y, or Z. That's what faith over fear means to me today. Randy: I I I think that's I think that's great, man. And that's totally different than what I would have said. And I like I like it a lot because I think a lot of us maybe, you know, explore faith because of fear, fear of damnation, fear of the wrath of God. But ultimately God wants us to choose him because we love him and because it's, you know, he loves us. And you know, my answer, I would say to me, what faith over fear means is everything you do. Every choice you make, every decision you make, every feeling you feel, you have an opportunity to either walk in faith or walk in fear. You know, when you choose not to quit the job that's killing you because you don't know if you're gonna find another one, that's walking in fear over faith. When you choose to, you know, say I do and marry that person that you love, not knowing if they're gonna love you back their entire life and be faithful to you like you're gonna be to them, that's choosing. Faith over fear. And that to me, that's like every every moment of our lives, we're either walking in faith or we're walking in fear. And I think that's the the plight of humanity is like, you know, every second of every day we have a decision to make about how we're gonna live, how we're gonna act, how we're gonna be. And a lot of times we choose fear because we're scared. What are people gonna think of us? Is that gonna hurt me? You know, am I gonna be sore tomorrow? Am I gonna miss out on something good? And that's the fear. And the faith is I'm gonna just do it. I'm gonna trust God. I know it's the right thing to do, whether it's speaking up or it's taking that bold step or it's you know, whatever it is. You know, you you hear someone spewing lies, and you're the only one who stands up and tells the truth, knowing that, you know, in some some countries that might cost you your life. You know, in this country it might cost you your job or it might cost you your reputation. To me, that's what it means, faith over fear. It's like, how am I gonna live my life? Am I gonna walk around scared of what could happen or have faith that God is bigger? Pj Verdin: Absolutely. And and and just to be explicitly clear, that that just because you are walking in that boldness of faith doesn't mean that nothing bad is gonna happen to you because we see in scripture Randy: That's right. Pj Verdin: that you know Paul that was a a bite mighty bold man of God out there preaching and got stoned and left for dead and then rolled back in. That you know that doesn't mean that the bad thing doesn't happen. It just shows you that that we understand. Within every fiber of our being, which is which is, you know, the works that James was talking about whenever he said faith without works is dead. What I understand in the fiber of my being is is to live is Christ and to die is gain, right? So it's like if if if you understand that you're in relationship with the person who can kill your body and your soul, and you're you're in a relationship with him, then you you're not worried about somebody who could just kill your body. Period. Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: That and that's that's Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: the work. The work is is belie that faith, you know what I mean? For who whoever believes in him shall not perish but have an everlasting wi life. That belief that is is that faith that actually leads to like, man, I am willing to die for this faith. And and you know, unfortunately what you know, I won't get too far into it, but we are seeing a shift in our nation where people are, you know, facing persecution from other religions inside of America today. Randy: Mm. Pj Verdin: Because of their because of declaring that Jesus is King. So y'all can Randy: That's right. Pj Verdin: look that up in the news. I'm not gonna go too far into that on on this episode. But but man, just understand that, yeah, we are called to walk in that that boldness, in that faith. and and not not in fear. Randy: Yeah. And and and you're a hundred percent right to say that, you know, just because we are walking in faith, just because we are, you know, in a right relationship with God, that doesn't mean everything's gonna be perfect. It doesn't mean all the doors are gonna open. It doesn't mean everything's gonna go our way. You can't just you know expect that it's gonna be all rainbows and unicorns. In fact, in most cases, it's probably gonna be the opposite. Jesus said they're gonna hate you because they hated me first. And like Pj Verdin: Come on. Randy: you mentioned, Paul had all sorts of bad things Happen him and he says, I've learned to be contempt, whether I have food to eat or not, whether I have a place to sleep Pj Verdin: That's right. Randy: or not, whether I'm in jail or in prison or free. I've just learned to be contempt. Yeah. Pj Verdin: Shipwrecked, yeah. Yeah. Randy: And it's like, you know, our life in a lot of cases are gonna be worse, you know, if we accept Christ, because now the enemy is gonna come at us. And, you know, I don't believe God is trying to punish us. I think he kind of lets the natural laws of the universe, of the planet, of our legal system and everything, take care of things for the most part. Just like when my son got a speeding ticket, I let him deal with it and have to pay the fines and the penalties. I I didn't really need to like come down on him very hard because he already had the system coming down on him to take, you know, he that he had to take care of and he has to deal with the repercussions. But I definitely think the enemies out there are trying to attack us, you know, I Pj Verdin: Well I Randy: I think I don't think he would need to if we weren't, you know, in Christ. Pj Verdin: I I would just interject this, man. Like it I would say in the context of the world view, our w our lives might look worse in in God, but like we we know better, right? We we in in this world but not of it. So it's like, yeah, man, like I I c I can get that. That, you know, it's like be if if we're we're focused on on what success looks like through the lens of the world, you know what I mean? Like, y Randy: Right. Pj Verdin: you know, then then yeah, then living in Christ does it is w is quote unquote worse. But in in in in the grander scheme of things, in in the things in the realm of things that matter, you know, it it's exponentially I mean, you know, it's it's the only way, really. And and and I did I did want to also just say, you know, the the the the verse, you know, God has not given us a spirit of fear, but power, love and a sound mind. And those three things right there will get you through anything and everything in my in my opinion that that Randy: I agree. Pj Verdin: that you can face in in this world, period. Randy: Yeah, yeah. Faith over fear, man. I mean, why do you need the fear if you know that you have power, you have the love of God, you have a sound mind, you know, you're able to discern, you know, what his will is and and what the truth is, like then there's nothing to fear. You fear when you don't have those things and you're reading Bible passages that make it seem like you could lose your faith, like you could lose your salvation, like God's mad at you at every little thing that you do, then you start to have a lot of fear, right? When you don't Pj Verdin: Man. Randy: understand the gospel, you don't understand the new covenant, you start to get filled with some fear. And you're like, Man, I thought me and God were cool. Now I'm reading this verse in Hebrews and I'm like, I'm starting to feel some fear. What's going on here? Pj Verdin: Hey, what it's funny, what's the cliche, brother? People fear what? People fear what they don't understand. So if you're that that's the that's Randy: yeah, a hundred a hundred per or a thousand percent. Pj Verdin: yeah, that that's the that's what they the the cliche is. So so Christian brothers and sisters, let that sink in for a minute. If you're sitting there with with this this idea of being afraid of God or or what he thinks or what what have you. Do you really understand your father? Do you understand who you are in Christ? Do you understand? Because whenever you do, th that's not fear. I mean, some people, you know, so I I have heard people call it a reverential fear. I you know, I I think of it you know, it would be more adequately described as respect, maybe, but like, man, it's just it's like for me it's just a love thing. It's like, man, you know, it it's I just I just love him. And and and you know that that's all I need to to keep me in check. In the same way that I don't need to be afraid of my wife. She you know, she can't, you know, I mean, maybe she could shoot me or something, but she's not gonna physically overpower me. She's not gonna I don't fear my wife and that's not I just love her and that's enough to to you know what I mean? That's sufficient enough for for this relationship. I it doesn't require me thinking, well if I do this, she's gonna be No, I just love her. That's simple. Randy: And and for anyone out there who's thinking of one of my favorite verses, I believe it's Proverbs 17 that says, you know, the fear of the Lord is the is the beginning of wisdom, and fools despise wisdom discipline, I think it is, in instruction, something like that. I would just point out, notice that it says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, not the end. I Pj Verdin: Hmm. Yeah. Randy: I would I would say that the end is not fear, but love of the Lord. I would say that Pj Verdin: Love. Hundred percent, yeah. Randy: the beginning, sure, the beginning is fear. But then as you do start to gain wisdom and you grow in knowledge and understanding, that fear changes. And if that hasn't happened, then it's a good thing to think about. It's a good question to ask. And that's where you have to wrestle with your own faith and wrestle with your understanding of, you know, the word of God and what God is actually saying to you. Cause I think that's a good place to start, but that's not where you want to end. Pj Verdin: And and I would also I would encourage I haven't done this, but I'd encourage for people to go look up that word, the the word used for fear there in in Greek or Aramaic and and see if it doesn't have a double meaning there that that might change. Randy: That'll be Hebrew 'cause that's Proverbs. Pj Verdin: it it my bad. Well yeah, Hebrew probably my either way, I'm saying go look up the original meaning of the word because a lot of times those things will add context. Sometimes there's duality to words and in the way they use and they use specific words you know, not very similar but but somewhat similar to how we have, you know, Words that mean different things that we can choose, synonyms. they do that, but a lot of times they are more specific and and meticulous about which versions of the words they use for different places and for different reasons. So yeah. Randy: Yep. All right, man. Well, hey, I I think we covered a lot of ground today. I think you know, at the end of the day, I I love the conversation we had about, you know, who we are in Christ and our identity in Christ and you know how we filter everything through the gospel. I think that pretty much does it for this episode. What do you think, man? Pj Verdin: Yeah, man, I I would just as a closing thought, I would just like to say this. You know, if if if Anybody out there listening today has has heard anything that that you know kind of struck a chord with them and and made them feel some type of way. I I just want to be completely transparent. Like, man, this is not me criticizing or or condemning or any my my heart for for my Christian brothers and sisters and those Christian and brothers in Christ to come, those who haven't got there yet, is man like I I I know that, you know, knowing about Christ at least and and and trying it is is a step in and of itself. And it's like I I see so many people with the desire to know their God and they don't ever get to and that that literally breaks my heart. And and and it just comes from from lack of guidance, you know, i in in in places of authority where they think they are their their needs are their needs are being met and and and I feel like they're there's a a a shortage or a a disconnect there and and and and if I really it's so if anything that I s I've said personally made made it sound like I'm coming at you, it's not that my my heart is really just like, man, I I I want I want y'all to experience the the joy and the peace and the rest that there is in in understanding who we are in Christ because of what he did for us that we can't undo. It's just it's it's a game changer. So I just wanted to Randy: Amen. Pj Verdin: clear that up. Randy: Amen, man. Good, good wrap up there. Well, I think that does it for this episode of the walk talk. So thank you all so much for listening. If you haven't already, please like, subscribe, and follow the show. And before you go, let us know what you think and where you disagree with us in the comments Pj Verdin: Yeah. Randy: down below. God bless. Pj Verdin: God bless.