Latest / Getting After It / 186 - You're Not Stuck, You're Avoiding a Decision

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186 - You're Not Stuck, You're Avoiding a Decision · Getting After It

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're not stuck.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to sit with that for a second because I I know that it does not feel that way.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like your circumstances, it feels like bad timing, or you're in a situation that doesn't have a clear exit.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing I want you to remember from this entire episode, if nothing else.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about decisions today and how sometimes you can feel stuck by contemplating certain decisions for such a long time, or from not deciding to do something that you already know that you need to do.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've run this scenario in your head hundreds of times before.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: You want that outcome, but you're too afraid to actually take that first step and make some kind of decision.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you already know what the answer is.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Many, many times we already know what the answer is that we need to do to get to the next spot that we want to be at.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this whole episode today, I want to be clear about something is there is a gap between knowing and deciding.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And within that gap, many people can lose years of their lives.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: I lost a couple months of mine falling into this trap.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody names it for what it actually is.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk about that today.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were new here, this podcast is all about how to get you outside your comfort zone and push you to do hard things.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is gonna be one that's fresh on my mind.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's about loss aversion through decision making.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I've I've felt stuck before.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And many times throughout my life, when I have that feeling, it's because there's something that I know I need to do that I haven't done yet.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not a motivation episode.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can go back and listen to episode 179 where I talked about how you don't need more motivation, you need fewer excuses.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want an episode like that, go go take a listen to that one.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it could be helpful.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not an identity episode either.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's about the in-between.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's more specific than both of those.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're in that spot where you know you have a decision that you need to make, it can feel like you're in limbo.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: It might even feel like you're in purgatory, where you're living some kind of hell every single day, um, avoiding that decision and and staying in the same place that you are.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh like I said, I want this to be a little bit more personal.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to know that I have experienced this too, and it's something all of us human beings, we go through at some point in our lives.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Mine came a few weeks ago.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I to paint the picture a little clearer, December of last year, I decided that I needed a new job, that I needed to find a place where I could grow because I had open conversations with my boss uh about my growth trajectory uh where I was, and he made it very clear that there really was nothing I could grow into.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they weren't hiring new positions, there wasn't anyone anyone's position who I could take.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so there was just this place for me where I was comfortable.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I had a steady paycheck, I was good at what I did, but deep down, you know, especially with having a podcast called Getting After It, I always believed that I need to push myself in ways to to continue that self self-growth for myself and to learn more about myself and what it means to work hard, what it means to do difficult things.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I went through uh an interview process with one company, it sounded like a great opportunity, and I made it through the entire interview process and eventually got a job offer.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I regret taking that job.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's the only way I can really say it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I do regret it because you know the job itself was fine, the company itself was not where I wanted to be.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's an important distinction to make.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there were aspects about the job that I just I wasn't interested in doing.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that sounds a little crazy, but really that's that's the thing.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I couldn't see a future for myself in this position at the place I was at.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that I wore that in like I guess I didn't wear it, but I had that way on my mind all the time.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I wasn't supposed to be here, that this was not the place for me, that there was something else I needed to be doing.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um got to the point to where you know I had these conversations in my head all the time of like it feels so wrong to be here.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and not like the wrong in terms of like, oh, I'm I'm you know, I may have made a bad decision, maybe this wasn't for me.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like you know, you're on the trails wearing flip-flops trying to do a trail run.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's like everything's uncomfortable.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you probably slip and fall more, you stub your toes quite a bit.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of wrong I'm talking about here.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So just wanted to get that out there.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it got to the point to where I actually I had a business meeting in Hollywood, of all places.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hollywood, California.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know who has a business meeting there, but hey, sure enough, we did.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the entire plane ride, it it felt like something was about to break.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like this angst inside of me was building up to the point to where I couldn't take it anymore.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing in the back of my head that I didn't want to be here, that there was plenty of other places I could go and work.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that feeling did not go away.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I got in an Uber with one of my co-workers, and it just without saying anything negative about her, um, because I don't want, you know, to her to listen to this or anything like that, um, she's definitely another target audience.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that whole time, you know, I was in the car and trying to have small talk with this person, and I was I felt like I was wearing a mask.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was being someone who I was not.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And doing that long enough will wear on you.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt like that was my entire experience at that company was I was always trying to fit some kind of mold.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was always trying to uh wear a costume and fit in, and I hated it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I finally got to my hotel room uh in Hollywood, I closed the door behind me, and I'm not kidding when I tell you this, I I fell down to my knees.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was in a rough spot.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have I've known for weeks that this wasn't gonna be my feature, that I needed to find whatever was next for me that got me excited, that it was a place that I enjoyed working, I enjoyed my coworkers, and I liked what I did.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Which is not too hard to find if you actually seek and try and do that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to tell you why I took this job, honestly, you guys, it was mainly because of the paycheck.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: The paycheck was something that I thought was a joke when they told me that that's what they were gonna give me.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was my base salary was more than my entire um OTE was at my other position.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that felt good, honestly.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the fact that they're like, Yeah, you can have this much.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I thought to myself, like, man, this is amazing.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is great.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that number kept me in this position longer than I should have been.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I was on my knees, I I prayed.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: When I have big struggles like this, the first person I go to is God because he's got all the answers.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I firmly believe that.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't pray for him to make my situation easier or to, you know, have a job given to me the next day somewhere else.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I prayed for strength because I I knew what I needed to do, and that was call my boss and put in my two weeks' notice.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, husbands, if you ever have an experience like this where you're convinced that this is what you need to do and that you um have a conversation with God and He gives you the strength to do it, always talk to your wives first.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Always talk to your wives.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I that's exactly what I did.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I called my wife right after that prayer, and I just told her what I was feeling.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I told her all the feelings that have been bottled up inside of me for the weeks that I've known.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I told her, like, I think I need to put in my two weeks' notice.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think I need to be done here and try and find whatever's next.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think it's this.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I remember her words to me were if you're not happy with where you're at, then do what you gotta do.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do what you gotta do.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's what she told me.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that gave me strength along with the the prayer I gave to God.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I wanted to know if that was what I needed to do.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I hit my knees and I prayed and just said, Hey, I'm about to do this.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if this is wrong, I need you to tell me.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a I'm I'm really I'm calling it quits here.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And once I got up, I called my boss and I said, Hey, you know what?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I gotta let you know, like this is not working out for me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is not um the place that I want to be, and I I don't think that I I can keep keep doing this.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I can't keep I didn't tell her this part, but I couldn't keep putting up the f facade and being someone who I wasn't because that was the hardest part.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I did that, my confidence eroded, my self-image eroded, and all these negative mental thoughts constantly swarmed in my brain.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I had that conversation with her, I hung up the phone and I felt immediate relief.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Immediate relief.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was relief of a of a man who finally stopped lying to himself, who made this decision that he knew he needed to do and had full confidence in his decision.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I did is I called an Uber.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I called an Uber and my trip to Hollywood lasted about uh an hour and a half.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have to be driven to a breaking point to actually do what you gotta do, like Ali said, and make the decision you know you've been putting off.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my breaking point.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the entire time I was driving into the Uber, or driving in the Uber to LAX, which is about 45 minutes, LA is terrible for traffic, but I was listening to music, I was listening to podcasts, and I just felt like I just felt peaceful.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And goes to show like I have a strong faith in God, and I know that his decision or his hand was in my decision-making process, and that in fact I did have the strength that I prayed for.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a huge factor in this piece.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I'll do an episode about praying and talking to God because it has been such a benefit and such a helpful thing for me in in the terms of getting after it, not just with things I do at work or with my family, but like my training.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like I've talked to God so many times while I'm running.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But again, that's not that's not the topic we're going into today.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's for another episode.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um But that moment, I made the decision.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: The very second I acted on what I already knew, everything I'd been carrying for months, it evaporated.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I learned that that's what avoidance costs you.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that is what a decision can give back to you.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a note on that.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know not everyone's in a not everyone is in circumstances where they can rage quit and call their boss and say, I'm putting my two weeks in and be okay.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I saved up enough to be okay, like I'm now getting uh to the end of other interview processes.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so just want to make that distinction that I know my situation was unique, and I know that not a lot of people can do things like that, but just wanted to throw that out there.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And your decision might be completely different than mine in terms of like leaving a job.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It could be having a hard conversation, it could be breaking up with that person who's been dragging you through the mud for months, and you know that you've been needing to do it, but just been avoiding it because it's uncomfortable.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And with all things of getting after it, we try and endure the uncomfortable situations and come out better for it.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go back to the idea of being stuck because stuck is not a state.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that stuck is a story that we tell ourselves.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: You don't actually get stuck, like you're not trapped um with cement around your feet, stuck in a block of cement where you can't move.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where that analogy came from, but um, you know what I mean.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not physically stuck, and there is a massive difference between uh those two things because one implies something happened to you, and the other puts the responsibility exactly where it belongs.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's on you to make this decision.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite stoics, you guys should know by now that I love the Stoics, his name was Seneca, and he said this almost 2,000 years ago that applies, I would say, just as much as uh back then as it does today.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, While we are postponing, life speeds by.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sit with that for a moment, because that's a powerful one.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a that is the description of the mechanism that is happening here.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's every day you spend in in that limbo is a day that passes, and with or without you participating in it, it's gonna go on.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was I was talking to Allie about um her dad a while back, and one of the things that she said about grief was that you know it's it's hard because you go through this process where you know her father passed away, and it's hard because the the world just keeps going.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it felt like in those moments for her and her entire family that their world was shattered, but the world's gonna keep on moving, regardless of if you decide to do anything or not.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I I would say that the weeks that you spend convincing yourself that now isn't the right time, that adds up.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like all things in life, it compounds.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point you look up and realize that you've spent a year in a holding pattern, you could have exited in a day.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I see this in training all the time.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: How many times have I talked about, you know, when I'm not feeling up for it and I just go through the motions?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that period where I'm just going through the motions, it can add up.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be weeks where you know I'm either not as excited about my training plan as I am, or I'm fatigued, or other things in my life are going on.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I was going through this whole job crisis, I my training suffered for it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it was because like I started losing who I was.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, like my confidence eroded, and my entire thought process was surrounded around this one decision that I needed to make.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in my life felt like it was out of sync because I was always constantly thinking about this decision, and I've been in that loop many times before.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: But this is what I'm trying to get at of like, it's not an actual thing being stuck, it is a story that we tell ourselves, which that can be hard to swallow.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: That that's that's reality for you, but that's a hard thing to swallow because at the end of the day, especially in my own decision, I was gonna have to tell myself that I was in the wrong, that I made the wrong decision.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, you have to understand that um staying put is also a choice, and it doesn't just it doesn't carry uh the weight of one because it feels kind of passive.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Naming it is the first thing that you gotta do.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you feel like you're stuck, if you feel like you're in a situation where you know that there's something you need to do, but have just kind of avoided it because loss aversion is a real thing, name it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Call it out.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that you know that you understand what it is.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not choosing to decide, you have to say that for yourself and let it land.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the cost of indecision because this is where I want to hit hard.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I think we deeply underestimate what limbo actually costs us.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I for sure did.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know what I was costing myself.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Most people, I would imagine that they calculate the risk before making some kind of decision.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: They run the numbers on what might what they might lose if they leave, if they change, or if they commit to something.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And doing those calculations, it feels responsible.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they feel like you're being prudent, but almost nobody calculates the cost of not doing, uh, not deciding.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that cost is real and it's ongoing.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it compounds in a way that it's much harder to see.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what Limo cost me.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you can kind of put the points together here and calculate that for yourself.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't just the time, it was who I was becoming.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it was.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: It cost me a lot.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And every day I showed up in that role was a day that I spent performing a version of myself that I I didn't recognize.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that erosion, that slow, quiet drift of yourself, um, it's one of the most expensive things that a person can carry.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't show up on some balance sheet, it feels palpable.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to tell you about my brother Drew.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: You guys might have known, you might know Drew because he's been on the show, I think, four or five times.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: But his story is one that I really admire.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, there's a lot that you can learn from it too and apply it to your own life.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But my brother Drew, you know, we were always uh gym buddies.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: We always went and worked out together.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: It started in college, and life happened.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, he started getting a little lazy with his training, with his eating, and you know, years go by, and Drew became a 260-pound man who's 6'4, and he wanted to change.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I would always tell him, like, hey, Drew, you gotta start running, man.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You, I feel like you would really like it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you like that training, you like that discipline and that commitment.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like you would do great.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he would always tell me, like, nah, running's stupid.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then he would say things like, you know, I tried running, but my knees hurt so bad.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, like a few weeks go by, and we talked about Team Tim a lot uh when Allie first joined the family.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that got both of my brothers excited.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And my brother Drew was like, hey, I'm actually gonna train for Team Tim.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is when I was going for sub three in February 2023 or 2024.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 2024.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Drew's like, can you help train me for Team Tim?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that was in November of 2023.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the here's the key thing.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell Drew as much as I wanted to that like he would enjoy running, that he would be great at it.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's got long legs, he'd be so good at it.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, something that helps me with my mental health and like all these things.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell him all the benefits of running, what I've learned from it, what it's taught me, what I've gained from it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the key difference here is that he, Drew, he had to decide for himself that that's what he wanted.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it came from that small decision.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that small decision has rippled throughout his life in so many other areas.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: When we started training together, he finally caught the bug.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Okay, let's go all in.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna go all in, I'm gonna lose my weight, and I want to be a runner.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to help me run, which I was honored to be a part of his journey for, but you can take me out of the equation.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was all Drew doing the work.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was him who was committing to actually exercising and pushing himself to eating healthier, to showing up for his family still.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that has to be personal, it has to be from inside of you.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to change your life and make some kind of decision that you've been avoiding, you've got to commit to it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it has to come from you.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because even if I if I wanted to, you know, go up to him and be like, Drew, I'm worried about your health.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to start running.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it probably wouldn't have been effective because it has to be a personal, internalized decision.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's a completely different man.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now he's he's lost a lot of his weight, now he's down to 215.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he pushes himself in the gym, he shows up for his family, he shows up for his job, and he says a lot of the reasons are because of what he's learned from running, how to embrace discomfort, how to um push through when you're tired and unmotivated, and you know what you have to get done.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I really admire him for that, for coming to that conclusion and becoming a different man.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what he could.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have been if if indecision was still a factor here, who knows where he'd be.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he would be on my 600-pound life, but he he might be pretty unhealthy.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And who knows?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: If he's unhealthy like that, maybe his family would suffer because he wouldn't show up as much as he he is now, or maybe his job would suffer because of the same thing.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, indecision is just as costly as the decision that is made.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes more.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the decision that's made, that's gonna cost you a lot too.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like for him, it meant workouts, it meant eating healthy, it meant stretching and and and waking up early in the morning to go out and push himself on a trail.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that is something that is powerful, but it all started with one decision.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we avoid decisions?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if the cost of indecision is that high, and it's as high as I've been talking about, why do we do it?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we stay there?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we keep walking past the decision day after day?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say two reasons, and they kind of work together.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: The first is loss aversion, and this is a psychological reality that what we might lose feels larger and more real than what we might gain.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: The salary I had, I felt like if I lost that, that felt more concrete concrete than the fulfillment of me having this relief from the job.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not irrational.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make that clear as well.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like these are not irrational thoughts or feelings that you're having.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually how human beings are wired.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, losses loom larger than equivalent gains do a lot of the times.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we are built to protect what we have.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: We are wired for hunter-gathering, hunter-gatherer minds and um understanding scarcity.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that that part of us can actually keep us in somewhere because we want that security, we want that safety.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it says, you know, you have a family, you have bills, you have people who are depending on you.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not the time to take risks.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, yes, that is true, but a lot of the times it's just fear wearing a costume.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the question I had to ask myself during this time was am I being wise or am I protecting my comfort?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because from the inside, those feel identical.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they they use the same kind of language, they make the same arguments.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: The only way to tell them apart is to get brutally honest about what you're actually afraid of.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Which brings me to the second uh reason that we avoid decisions, and that's ego protection.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Epictetus said it this way.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's another one of my favorite stoics.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: His story is nuts.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: He was a slave and then he became uh a very well-known stoic, but he says, first say to yourself what you would be, and then do what you have to do.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is that most of us have already told ourselves what we are.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've made commitments, public and private, and we've built a self-image around a role, a choice, or a direction that we're in.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And to change that direction means admitting out loud to yourself and maybe to others that you were wrong.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what I was just talking about earlier.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had to admit that I was wrong for making the decision that I did.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that's harder than the actual decision itself.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes having to take a blow to your ego does not feel good.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if we go back to the teachings of Jocko Willink and Extreme Ownership, one of his points, one of the laws of battle that he talks about is no ego.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because ego doesn't do anything for you but make you feel good about yourself.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's where you got to be a little bit humble.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You got to introduce humility into your life if you don't already have it.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's not a comfortable thing to say, man, I was wrong.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I took this job offer because it had a good paycheck, and you know, I wanted to be comfortable, and and I have to wear a face mask every time I I pretend like I show up to work wanting to be there.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hard.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Loss aversion plus ego protection, those are two things that are gonna be difficult.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And from my own experience, those are the two engines of avoidance.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they work together so smoothly that most people never see them even running.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you decide?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um how do you decide when you don't feel ready?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's a a very valid question.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and here's the thing that nobody tells you clarity does not come before the decision, it comes after.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: To go back to my own story, I did not have a plan when I called my boss.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did not have another job lined up.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have some financial runway mapped out besides like, okay, I know how much is in my savings account, and I'll be okay.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know exactly what was next.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I had one thing.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: The certainty that the cost of staying was higher than the cost of leaving.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that idea, that concept was enough for me.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Winston Churchill, who is someone who I absolutely love, I'm reading this book.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Walking with Destiny.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Churchill, Walking with Destiny, written by Andrew Roberts.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's an 1100-page book about Winston Churchill, and I the stories in it are unbelievable.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what I've learned about Winston Churchill is he would make decisions all the time.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he led uh Britain through World War II and his entire career in politics, he was making decisions all the time.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes he made the wrong decisions, but afterwards he would always adapt.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he changed course when circumstances demanded it without needing to have the full picture in hand first.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that he said is to improve is to change, and to be perfect is to change often.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Winston, I I love you, but obviously none of us are going to be perfect.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: But that's an important point.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: To improve is to change, to be perfect is to change often.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And his life was proof because he did not make perfect decisions.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: He made decisions and then he adapted.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: The plan built itself after he committed to that decision and to that direction.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's our model here.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I'm trying to get at.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to know everything that comes after the decision.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: You need to trust that motion will reveal the path in a way that's that's standing in it never will.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell you about the phone call that I made before I called my boss.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to Allie, like I said.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But what she said about do what you gotta do or do what you need to do, that meant the world to me.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I went through everything with her.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about the role, I talked about the money, I talked about the timing, the fear, the feeling that I had in that hotel room.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to her about all of it.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she knew that I didn't have a plan.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: She knew that there was no guarantee.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there was not some kind of spreadsheet I had with financial implications, none of that kind of stuff.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Just do what you need to do.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Six words.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Six powerful words.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they were more powerful than any strategic, uh anything strategic she could have said to me.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because they were confirmed what I they confirmed what I already knew.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: That the decision was mine to make, that the people who love me would be standing there on the other side of it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that staying stuck to protect the comfort of the people uh who didn't need protecting was a story that I made up.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So find your alley.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whoever that is that you can talk to about these kind of things, and not someone who will make the decision for you, but someone who will sit with you in the weight of it and send you back to yourself, bring you back to who you are.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's make this this let's make this concrete because this is my favorite part of every episode where I give you some things that you could work on and hopefully change your life, hopefully help you get after it a little bit better.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And an episode about decision making that doesn't give you anything to act on this week would be exactly the kind of irony I can't live with.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not doing that today.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And here are five things that you can do.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the first thing, if you remember in the beginning, I talked about naming the thing.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Don't name the feeling of being stuck.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not I'm not sure what to do.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Name the actual decision that you know you need to make.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Write it on a piece of paper if you have to do it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I need to leave this job, I need to have this conversation, I need to commit to this or walk away from it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Naming it specifically does something to it.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: It stops being a fog and becomes a thing that you can look at directly.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot deal with something you haven't named.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's step one.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Step two is calculate the cost of staying, not the risk of leaving.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sit down and actually do this.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the fear that you're feeling, because it's all real.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And understand what the ongoing price of not making your decision is.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: In time, in identity, in self-respect, in the slow erosion of who you said you'd be.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Put a real number on it, or at least a real description.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like figure out what that is.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: What does another six months in the what cost you?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: What does another year look like?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Step three is ask the honest question.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a part where you you gotta put down the ego a little bit, you gotta let it sit.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And ask yourself, are you being wise or are you protecting your comfort?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know the difference, and only you do.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to be willing to look at it.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Loss aversion dressed as prudence is still avoidance.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Ego protection dressed as patience is still avoidance.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Get honest about which one you're actually running.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Figure that out.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because honesty is the is an important step in this whole process.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't know what's important to you or what you actually care about, and what the cost of indecision is actually costing you, and how much you're gonna have to pay later on, that's a scary place to be.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: So get honest about it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Step number four is find someone like Ali.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: One person who will listen without some kind of agenda that they're trying to push to help you get back to who you are.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is not a person who's gonna make this decision for you.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go to your mom and say, Mom, please, like, can you just do this for me?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who will sit with the full weight of it with you and then say, in whatever words are theirs, do what you need to do.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then number five is make the decision before you have a full plan.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Brett, that sounds very irresponsible.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I can do that.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm in it now.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm living the repercussions of that phone call I made to my boss.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because right now I'm not employed.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm close, but I'm not there.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a steady income yet.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: But commit to the direction.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: I firmly believe that the path builds after you move.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the plan always comes afterwards.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: The full plan always comes afterwards.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're anything like me, with my own job, I am working my ass off to make sure that I have something in the future that I can have to provide for my family, to take care of myself, and to to have a little money, to have fun, right?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because hey, life's life's not always serious, guys.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I talk about that a lot, I feel like I'm I feel like I have a very serious podcast, but really it's life's not that serious.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Life is meant to be enjoyed.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if a decision that you're avoiding is costing you that life where you you can enjoy it, it's not worth it.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care who you are, it's not worth it to be living a life that you hate.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's really it.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Waiting for clarity sometimes feels responsible, but that's what it looks like when I'm deciding in my hotel room if that this is it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm waiting for that clarity, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the decision that you make is what gets you into the Uber back to Salt Lake City.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to close with Drew again.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's here's what I keep coming back to.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: I could not make that decision for him.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I tried, I talked to him, I challenged him, I pushed, but nothing happened.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the truth about this.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody can make this for you.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not me through this podcast, not your spouse, not your training partner, not your boss.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can give you some some ideas, I can give you some things to think about, but the decision is yours.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: The avoidance is also yours.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the crossing of the line, whenever it happens, will be yours too.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I guarantee you you will feel relief, you will feel more like yourself.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what changed, Drew, going back to him, was not that his circumstances got better.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: What changed was that he wanted it for himself, badly enough to actually put in the work, and that the cost of staying where he was was weighing on him.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Quite literally, if uh I'm being honest.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's my brother, I can say this kind of stuff about him, I love him.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: But one day he decided, and he hasn't stopped moving since.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't have a full plan.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: He made one decision.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: That is what is available to you on the other side of the decision that you're avoiding.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So here's your challenge for the week.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Identify the decision you've been calling a situation.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: The thing you've been framing as I'm stuck.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what's actually true there is I haven't decided yet.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Name it, write it down, and say it out loud.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then this week, not when the timing's better, not after you have the full plan, make one move in the direction you already knew was right.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're not stuck.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: You are just one decision away.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode hit home for you guys, please share it with a friend.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you know that they're going something, you're going through something that you know they might be in a similar situation to some of the things that we talked about today, please send it to them.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd love for this to land and to help at least one person make a decision to get them to the life that they want.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what this whole thing is about.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: It said in the beginning that getting after it is a it's a podcast all to get you out of your comfort zone and for you to do hard things.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: But from my experience and from the experience of others, I know that getting out of your comfort zone and doing hard things creates a life that you're proud of, a life that you want, a life that you enjoy and can be shared with others.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you guys are listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please feel free to rate the show.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: That helps it more than you know.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, comment on YouTube if uh if you want or anywhere else.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: I always love hearing from you guys.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: But really appreciate you guys for listening.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And until next episode, my friends, name the decision that you gotta make and keep getting after it.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, guys.