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Highridge Goes Private to Expand Differentiated Offering in Spine · Vanguards of Healthcare by Bloomberg Intelligence

0:21
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Vanguards of Healthcare series.
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Speaker 1: My name is Matt Hendrickson, the medical technology analyst at
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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence, which is the in house equity research platform
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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Elpeak. We're pleased to have with us today
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Speaker 1: Rebecca Whitney, CEO of high Ridge, a medical device company
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Speaker 1: that is building a portfolio of solutions for complex spine cases,
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Speaker 1: including motion preservation and mainly invasive surgery. Rebecca, thank you
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Speaker 1: for joining us today.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Matt. I'm really excited to be here.
0:47
Speaker 1: I am excited for you to be here too. Let's
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Speaker 1: just start right in with kind of you know, laying
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Speaker 1: the listeners know, kind of your career path that led
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Speaker 1: you to the CEO role of high Ridge.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll try to keep this thrill top we brief.
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Speaker 2: I have always felt very fortunate because I love what
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Speaker 2: I do, and even as a young child, I was
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Speaker 2: that person running around the neighborhood starting businesses over the
1:09
Speaker 2: summer and going door to door trying to sell everything
1:11
Speaker 2: from hair scrunches to babysitting services. And so I like
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Speaker 2: to say that business leadership is sort of in my blood,
1:18
Speaker 2: and finding a career where I always tell people this,
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Speaker 2: I think if you find something that you love to
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Speaker 2: do and you're naturally good at, success follows. So for me,
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Speaker 2: it's just been this series of steps that have one
1:29
Speaker 2: of course, led to the next and eventually led me here.
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Speaker 2: But I did not set out thinking that I would
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Speaker 2: be a CEO of a company. I truly, you know.
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Speaker 2: My background is marketing, so more of a strategic commercial
1:39
Speaker 2: sales marketing side of things. And so you started off
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Speaker 2: pretty early on. I was twenty two years old when
1:45
Speaker 2: I took an internship with Bad Medical at the time,
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Speaker 2: and that internship led to my first job in marketing.
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Speaker 2: So straight out of MBA school, I kind of went
1:52
Speaker 2: into that and the rest is just built from there.
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Speaker 2: And so I've got, geez, I'm dating myself now, almost
1:58
Speaker 2: thirty years of experience in medtech. I always been in medtech.
2:01
Speaker 2: I've worked in several different sectors, and every experience has
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Speaker 2: sort of led to the next, and so I've always
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Speaker 2: biased towards saying yes as opportunities present themselves, and has
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Speaker 2: just kind of taken it one step at a time.
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Speaker 2: And here we are so certainly not something that was
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Speaker 2: predestined or that I set out to achieve, but have
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Speaker 2: loved every step of the way and just felt really
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Speaker 2: fortunate to have always loved what I do, and especially
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Speaker 2: in an industry and a market that is actually helping
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Speaker 2: patients at the end of it all.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, that's kind of interesting because you know,
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Speaker 1: the saying yes to new roles and new challenges and
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Speaker 1: things like that. That's not the first time I've heard
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Speaker 1: a guest come in and say that, because it really
2:35
Speaker 1: does open up the doors for new experiences and being
2:38
Speaker 1: able to then use those experiences to kind of build
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Speaker 1: your skill set to be even a bigger, a better leader,
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Speaker 1: and even expanding that leadership role.
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Speaker 2: That's right, And I take the same approach to my
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Speaker 2: personal life. I feel like if you can keep an
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Speaker 2: open mind and just be receptive to the opportunities that
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Speaker 2: present themselves personally and professionally, you're just going to learn
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Speaker 2: and grow and experience so much more. And so for me,
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Speaker 2: I've worked at you know, thirty one person startup that
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Speaker 2: was private equity backed all the way up to ge
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Speaker 2: Healthcare and Covidian, which is not Metronic, And so my
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Speaker 2: range of experience big company, small company, privately held, publicly held,
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Speaker 2: every one of those opportunities creates more experience which then
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Speaker 2: gets applied to whatever I do next. And so it's
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Speaker 2: all led to this, which has been great.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, it's funny that you talk about
3:20
Speaker 1: the building up from thirty one people to some of
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Speaker 1: the size of a metronic company, which is tens of
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Speaker 1: thousands of employees, because the path the high rejection kind
3:29
Speaker 1: of then went the other way.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: It went from being a segment of zimmer biomet which
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Speaker 1: then spun off the Spine Dental to be a smaller
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Speaker 1: publicly traded company Zimvy, and then Zimby spun off Spine
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Speaker 1: to become a privately held company. So walk through that
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Speaker 1: path to becoming a private company. And then also those
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Speaker 1: who are new to high Ridge because it is a
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Speaker 1: private company. You know, I saw that. You know, it
3:57
Speaker 1: was about a four hundred million dollars run rate when
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Speaker 1: you were a last zim But ground the listeners of
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Speaker 1: where your position is in the spine market compared to
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Speaker 1: some of the other players out there.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll take the second part of that question. First,
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Speaker 2: we are a top seven spine competitor, and so top
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Speaker 2: seven may not sound overwhelming in other sectors, but spine
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Speaker 2: is highly highly competitive. There were two hundred and fifty
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Speaker 2: spine companies in the US alone, so to be as
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Speaker 2: top seven player is actually very significant, roughly the size
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Speaker 2: of Orthopix, So just to kind of put that into perspective.
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Speaker 2: And so when you think about the big players in spine,
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Speaker 2: we're certainly one of those, which is fantastic, But we're
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Speaker 2: not huge, we're not metronic, we're not globus, and so
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Speaker 2: I think we're very uniquely positioned. We like to say
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Speaker 2: we're the best funded startup in spine. We have scale,
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Speaker 2: we have products, we have people all over the world,
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Speaker 2: but we're not so big that we can't be nimble
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Speaker 2: and aggressive and very fast paced. And so to your
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Speaker 2: point around becoming a private company, you're right. We've gone
4:52
Speaker 2: through almost the opposite of being acquired and integrated up
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Speaker 2: and I will tell you, having gone through this twice
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Speaker 2: in the last five years, extract ding a company is
5:01
Speaker 2: much more challenging and time consuming than integrating because you've
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Speaker 2: got all this shared DNA that you have to unravel
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Speaker 2: and you're finding things that you didn't even know were commingled.
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Speaker 2: So going from Zimmer to zimby was a good step
5:12
Speaker 2: in the right direction, because when you're part of a
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Speaker 2: huge orthopedic company, spine just doesn't get the focus and
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Speaker 2: the resourcing that you need to really be successful. And
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Speaker 2: so Zimmer of course appropriately understood that spine and dental
5:23
Speaker 2: would be better served not as a part of that
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Speaker 2: that mothership. And I think that was a very good step.
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Speaker 2: The problem with ZIMV, You're not the problem, but the
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Speaker 2: reason we're now a privately held spine only company is
5:34
Speaker 2: because you need that focus. And when you've got a
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Speaker 2: dental business and a spine business, ZIMB essentially becomes a
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Speaker 2: holding company. And so all that led us to say,
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Speaker 2: these businesses, even as a part of ZIMB, are going
5:45
Speaker 2: to be better served as independent entities. So we started
5:48
Speaker 2: that process shortly after becoming ZIMV, which eventually led to Hyrich.
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Speaker 2: So you're right, it was sort of going the opposite
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Speaker 2: direction of where we started, which is a big conglomerate.
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Speaker 2: We were able to get a much more focus as
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Speaker 2: a part of zimby the publicly traded market is very
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Speaker 2: interesting when you're running a newly spun company like that. Yep,
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Speaker 2: we could talk more about that, but I think for
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Speaker 2: us being privately held and being a per placed buying
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Speaker 2: company has given us the focus, the resourcing, and the
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Speaker 2: investment we need to really take this thing and make
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Speaker 2: it home. And the potential's always been there, we just
6:18
Speaker 2: needed the right ownership structure.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love to dive deeper into the benefits
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Speaker 1: of going private a little bit further. But I also
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Speaker 1: am curious about kind of your overview or kind of
6:28
Speaker 1: your initial thoughts of the spinoff process, because you said
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Speaker 1: it's very complicated. It's commingled, and even for something, as
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Speaker 1: you said, like Zimby was a holding company essentially for
6:38
Speaker 1: a separate spying company and a separate dental company, but
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Speaker 1: it still sounds like there was enough commingling of assets
6:44
Speaker 1: and infrastructure that it made it a very let's call
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Speaker 1: it an interesting story as you divested.
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Speaker 2: Yes, so I'll talk about the Zimby spinoff first. We
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Speaker 2: announced that deal in February of twenty twenty one, and
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Speaker 2: it took us thirteen months. We went public March first
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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty So for thirteen months you had people
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Speaker 2: planning for this separation on all sides, the ZMRA side,
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Speaker 2: the ZMV side, and it's everything from which people go
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Speaker 2: with the deal, because, believe it or not, it's not
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Speaker 2: clear cut. You've got all these shared resources, and so
7:12
Speaker 2: it's people, it's systems, it's processes, its strategy. You know,
7:16
Speaker 2: everything has to be negotiated. And I love to say
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Speaker 2: it's sort of like an amicable divorce, right, everybody knows
7:22
Speaker 2: you're going to be better off, but you still have
7:23
Speaker 2: to go through the pain of separating. So that took
7:27
Speaker 2: a long time. I think it actually helped Hiridge though,
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Speaker 2: because then to be a carve out of a spinoff
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Speaker 2: in relatively short order. A lot of that heavy lifting
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Speaker 2: had been done as part of the Zimbra spin So
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Speaker 2: when we became high Ridge, we went through the same exercise,
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Speaker 2: but a lot of that that resource allocation and kind
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Speaker 2: of separation between the two divisions had started to happen.
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Speaker 2: But what was different is, to your point, Zimbi still
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Speaker 2: had a lot of shared infrastructure. So I hired a
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Speaker 2: brand new executive team once we became high Ridge. My
7:54
Speaker 2: thirteen direct reports, only two came with the deal, So
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Speaker 2: new head of Operations, new CFO, new head of a
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Speaker 2: which are head of legal, so on and so forth.
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Speaker 2: So being able to bring in new talent was actually
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Speaker 2: really fun. But that's another something that I think is
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Speaker 2: often overlooked or not fully appreciated. You sort of have
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Speaker 2: to rebuild the whole company.
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Speaker 1: Which is something that it's kind of like you're talking
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Speaker 1: about that amicable divorce, because it's something where you know
8:14
Speaker 1: it's more work for you to do, but you get
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Speaker 1: to choose your person that you want to run operations,
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Speaker 1: you want the other segments that you want to have
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Speaker 1: that running. So I think I feel like that's a
8:24
Speaker 1: good sign for kind of allowing you to be able
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Speaker 1: to create your team absolutely.
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Speaker 2: And one of the things I love to do is
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Speaker 2: build high performing teams. So every one of these hires,
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Speaker 2: you know, took my time to make sure that not
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Speaker 2: only could they run their function, but would they be
8:36
Speaker 2: a part of building hires because you get a different
8:39
Speaker 2: talent pool when you're a pure place buying company, and
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Speaker 2: specifically on the surgeon facing commercial facing side, we've totally
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Speaker 2: rebuilt those teams as well. And so being able to
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Speaker 2: bring in people with really deep spine experience who know
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Speaker 2: how this business works, know what it takes to win
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Speaker 2: on the commercial side was really fun to your point,
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Speaker 2: and being able to hand pick that team and understand
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Speaker 2: how all these different components will work together to build
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Speaker 2: what is now High rig has been a blast.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then you talk about some of the other benefits.
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Speaker 1: I mean, because my initial thought with the private company
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Speaker 1: is you don't have to worry about the quarter by
9:09
Speaker 1: quarter kind of stepping stones. You don't have to tell
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Speaker 1: us analysts, Oh, this is what we did this quarter.
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Speaker 1: You can make it a long term project. Is that
9:18
Speaker 1: the main benefit that you get out of going private
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Speaker 1: or there are other benefits that we're just not aware of.
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Speaker 2: I think it's two things you touched on the first
9:25
Speaker 2: and I'll give you an example. Hig Capital, who is
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Speaker 2: the one that purchased the company. My managing director at
9:31
Speaker 2: HIG Capital. First time we sat down and had dinner
9:33
Speaker 2: together in Colorado, he said to me, do you think
9:35
Speaker 2: you spend enough on R and D in innovation? And
9:37
Speaker 2: I said absolutely not. And he said, would you be
9:40
Speaker 2: able to double your budget and put it to work?
9:42
Speaker 2: And I said absolutely, And that's exactly what we've done.
9:44
Speaker 2: So being able to double our investment in R and
9:46
Speaker 2: D gives us the opportunity to build a pipeline in
9:49
Speaker 2: a portfolio without having to answer to the street every
9:52
Speaker 2: ninety days about where those dollars are going and where's
9:54
Speaker 2: the ROI. So you just got a little breathing room
9:57
Speaker 2: to play this thing for the long haul, which I
9:58
Speaker 2: think has been really beneficial without those quarterly pressures of
10:01
Speaker 2: having to manage them, you know, to the street. So
10:04
Speaker 2: I think that's one. I think the other benefit, honestly
10:06
Speaker 2: is all PE firms are not created equal. But in
10:09
Speaker 2: our case, we've got an operating team on the hig
10:12
Speaker 2: capital side who really took our time to learn the
10:14
Speaker 2: Spine market, learn the Hi Ridge opportunity. And so we've
10:17
Speaker 2: got really smart people that are almost like an extension
10:20
Speaker 2: of what we're doing behind the scenes. So I think
10:22
Speaker 2: of it as this horse power. It's almost like the
10:25
Speaker 2: phone or friend analogy. Right.
10:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got.
10:27
Speaker 2: Really smart people thinking differently about how to optimize the
10:30
Speaker 2: value creation and that's been a huge benefit that we
10:32
Speaker 2: did not have as a publicly trade a company.
10:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know the other thing too, just with
10:37
Speaker 1: this whole path to where high Ridge is today, is
10:41
Speaker 1: you we talked about the spin off from zim Orbio.
10:43
Speaker 1: Might we talked about this spinoff from zimv Now you're
10:46
Speaker 1: high Ridge. But one of the first things you did
10:49
Speaker 1: was spun off one of your own businesses. That's right,
10:51
Speaker 1: And so what was the rational for that spinoff? And
10:55
Speaker 1: was that now three times a charm type of moment
10:58
Speaker 1: where you were able to get that pretty quickly out
11:00
Speaker 1: the door and be able to focus on your core
11:02
Speaker 1: spine assets.
11:03
Speaker 2: That's right. And that was always part of a strategy
11:05
Speaker 2: because it's all relative. So inside of Zimmer's spine was
11:09
Speaker 2: that rounding error division that wasn't getting resourced instead of
11:12
Speaker 2: high rids. The same thing was true for our bone
11:13
Speaker 2: healing business. It's a very good business, it's a healthy business.
11:17
Speaker 2: We knew that if we could separate these two sell
11:19
Speaker 2: that get it off on its own and it is
11:21
Speaker 2: doing quite well, and then use that capital to fuel
11:23
Speaker 2: the growth we need in spine, it'd be a win win.
11:26
Speaker 2: So very strategic on our part and very happy to
11:28
Speaker 2: see that that concluded relatively quickly. Yeah, in short order,
11:32
Speaker 2: it's been good.
11:33
Speaker 1: And let's let's talk about this portfolio now, because you know,
11:37
Speaker 1: the two kind of key products that when it was
11:39
Speaker 1: part of ZIMV was the MOBC, which is the cervical
11:42
Speaker 1: disc replacement, and then the tether, which is for motion
11:45
Speaker 1: preservation for patients with scoliosis, what mes through how those
11:52
Speaker 1: products are differentiated from kind of traditional standard of care
11:56
Speaker 1: for those various disease states.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll start with the tether. It's my favorite
12:01
Speaker 2: product to talk about because it truly is changing lives.
12:04
Speaker 2: And to your point, this is treating adolescent children who
12:07
Speaker 2: have scoliosis, and it's doing it in a way that
12:09
Speaker 2: does not fuse the spine. So the traditional method standard
12:13
Speaker 2: of care is to basically play s crewis and rods
12:15
Speaker 2: all up and down the spine when an adolescent has
12:18
Speaker 2: goliosis and fuse the spine into alignment, and that solves
12:21
Speaker 2: the clinical problem, but it comes with some limitations long term,
12:25
Speaker 2: where as these kids continue to grow, their mobility could
12:27
Speaker 2: be limited and their ability to live this very active
12:30
Speaker 2: lifestyle could be compromised.
12:32
Speaker 1: Well, I was about to say, I mean, because if
12:33
Speaker 1: you're doing pediatric patients, I mean, the bone structure is
12:36
Speaker 1: much smaller already. How is the bone going to expand
12:39
Speaker 1: in a proper way when it's all fused together. You
12:42
Speaker 1: have multiple verter base fused together.
12:44
Speaker 2: Bingo, right, and it doesn't take you just hit the
12:47
Speaker 2: nail on the head. It's very difficult to understand how
12:50
Speaker 2: that's a good long term solution. It's been the only
12:52
Speaker 2: solution for many, many years. So this for cheaper body
12:56
Speaker 2: tethering solution that we came up with and invented hand
12:58
Speaker 2: in hand with a bunch of thought leading around the world. Essentially,
13:01
Speaker 2: long story short, it uses growth modulation, so as that
13:05
Speaker 2: child grows, the spine brings itself into alignment without having
13:08
Speaker 2: to fuse the spine. And so it's a pretty novel approach.
13:12
Speaker 2: The patient needs to be properly indicated. It's important that
13:14
Speaker 2: this isn't for everybody, but for those patients who fit
13:17
Speaker 2: that sweet spot in terms of the specifications that are
13:20
Speaker 2: approved by the FDA, it can be a wonderful, life
13:23
Speaker 2: changing technology. And so it's a passion project for me
13:26
Speaker 2: for HIRIDS. Bringing that product to market has been incredibly rewarding,
13:30
Speaker 2: no incredibly rewarding.
13:31
Speaker 1: And then how have you been able to because any
13:34
Speaker 1: new novel technology that replaces standard care, it requires a
13:38
Speaker 1: lot of physician education. So how have you gone about
13:41
Speaker 1: with that process to get these physicians aware. Is it's
13:44
Speaker 1: still kind of a regional, kind of large hospital setting
13:47
Speaker 1: or are we seeing it kind of expand out nectionwide
13:51
Speaker 1: to kind of all the hospitals out there for.
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Speaker 2: This product in particular, have taken a very customized approach
13:57
Speaker 2: which has worked well where these surgeons who helped us
14:00
Speaker 2: invent the procedure and we're really instrumental in helping us
14:02
Speaker 2: bring it to market, they're so passionate about this too,
14:05
Speaker 2: and so we actually will match up a new surgeon
14:07
Speaker 2: that needs to be trained with one of our thought
14:09
Speaker 2: leading KOL surgeons and they'll actually customize the training and
14:13
Speaker 2: procedure for that new surgeon. So they'll go we call
14:16
Speaker 2: them reverse observations. They'll actually go into the learning surgeon's
14:19
Speaker 2: operating room and help them and customize that training so
14:22
Speaker 2: that people get very comfortable with it. We found that
14:24
Speaker 2: to be far more effective than running a national lab.
14:27
Speaker 2: We do those two, but it's such a unique procedure.
14:30
Speaker 2: It really requires that hands on, customized approach and that
14:32
Speaker 2: seems to be doing very well.
14:34
Speaker 1: And is that something then that takes a few cases,
14:37
Speaker 1: maybe slightly more cases, and then the surgeon feels comfortable
14:40
Speaker 1: where that your representative doesn't need to be there for
14:43
Speaker 1: that when it can move on to the next hospital.
14:45
Speaker 1: Is that kind of the strategy.
14:46
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So it differs by surgeon, but usually
14:50
Speaker 2: three to five cases and then they're often running okay,
14:52
Speaker 2: So it's a fairly early learning curve as long as
14:56
Speaker 2: we take this customized approach and do the hands on,
14:58
Speaker 2: you know, very close supervision if you well, just to
15:00
Speaker 2: get the comfort factor there. But after that they're often
15:03
Speaker 2: running and very self sufficient.
15:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then moving on to MOBC because that's actually
15:09
Speaker 1: more of an interesting market because it's more developed. But
15:13
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of rotation in and rotation out. Yes,
15:18
Speaker 1: and you're saying yes, and why, I'll let you. I'll
15:21
Speaker 1: let the expert describe kind of that rotation that's going
15:24
Speaker 1: on in the market.
15:24
Speaker 2: It's fascinating. So, first of all, MOBC is the most
15:27
Speaker 2: clinically studied spinal inpunt in the market. We have over
15:30
Speaker 2: twenty years of clinical data on five hundred and ninety
15:33
Speaker 2: nine patients that have been followed, so that's a long
15:36
Speaker 2: time to collect clinical history, but it is very positive. That's
15:40
Speaker 2: a good thing because I think people underestimate in spine specifically,
15:45
Speaker 2: there's a lot of shiny objects syndrome where everybody wants
15:48
Speaker 2: to try the newest, latest and greatest, and that's a
15:50
Speaker 2: good thing because it drives innovation. But when you think
15:52
Speaker 2: about it, these implants are sitting inside of somebody's body
15:55
Speaker 2: for decades, right, So I think that clinical history and
15:58
Speaker 2: those proven clinical outcome are critically important. That's helped us
16:02
Speaker 2: with MOBYC. So it's been around for twenty years, over
16:05
Speaker 2: eleven now in the United States, started in France, and
16:07
Speaker 2: we're working on innovation to continue to make that product
16:10
Speaker 2: very competitive and relevant. I think our single biggest strength
16:13
Speaker 2: is that long clinical history. Some of these entrants that
16:16
Speaker 2: have been coming in and out have struggled because of
16:19
Speaker 2: some clinical outcomes that I think have been maybe not
16:22
Speaker 2: as superior as they were hoping. Yeah, and you know
16:24
Speaker 2: the surgeon just last night and here in New York
16:26
Speaker 2: actually we were hosting a big event speaking about this topic,
16:30
Speaker 2: and doctor Rick Geyer, who's at the Texas Back Institute,
16:33
Speaker 2: who helped pioneer this entire segment of the market, was
16:36
Speaker 2: talking about the critical importance of having that long clinical history,
16:39
Speaker 2: because when you're a surgeon that's putting these devices in
16:41
Speaker 2: a patient, you got to be sure that you can
16:43
Speaker 2: stand behind the product. And so I think that's what
16:45
Speaker 2: we've seen is as people have played around with new technologies,
16:49
Speaker 2: new materials, new sizing approaches. Sometimes you just need time
16:54
Speaker 2: to understand is that really going to stand the test
16:55
Speaker 2: of time. And I think that's what's driving some of
16:57
Speaker 2: this movement.
16:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is not the only case in
17:00
Speaker 1: tech where you've seen that, where there's been you know,
17:02
Speaker 1: eight to ten different products out there trying to buy
17:04
Speaker 1: for market share, and that gets narrowed down to you know,
17:07
Speaker 1: if I'm thinking about this, it really kind of three
17:10
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, Globis kind of talks about Simplify,
17:14
Speaker 1: but they kind of don't talk about their you know,
17:16
Speaker 1: cervical disc and so basically it's come down to that,
17:19
Speaker 1: you know, going from that ten to three major competitors,
17:21
Speaker 1: which is kind of what you're seeing some of these
17:22
Speaker 1: other more mature markets throughout.
17:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Yeah, that's right. The consolidation is happening.
17:28
Speaker 2: And I think that's another example where Simplify was acquired
17:31
Speaker 2: by New Invasive and then of course Globus when Simplify
17:34
Speaker 2: was a cervical disc only company, they can drive that focus.
17:38
Speaker 2: Globus is understandably huge with a lot of priorities. One
17:41
Speaker 2: of the benefits we have as high Ridge being kind
17:43
Speaker 2: of in that sweet spot is we're not so big
17:45
Speaker 2: that we can't still focus on the things that set
17:47
Speaker 2: us apart, like we'll be see.
17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know the other part is you
17:51
Speaker 1: know your you know, Varage navigation system, which kind of
17:56
Speaker 1: you know, kind of gets clumped into that enabling technology.
18:00
Speaker 1: And when you think of enabling technology, you think of
18:02
Speaker 1: those big million, million and a half dollar robotic systems
18:05
Speaker 1: I get placed in the hospital. But that's not this.
18:08
Speaker 1: So what is the Verage navigation system and kind of know,
18:13
Speaker 1: how do hospitals benefit from this enabling technology without requiring
18:18
Speaker 1: that million dollar plus robot.
18:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, so our enabling tech strategy is twofold, and you
18:25
Speaker 2: touched on the first part, which is taking our flagship
18:27
Speaker 2: products Varages, our posterior cervical system, vital Is, our posterior
18:31
Speaker 2: threacal lumbar system. Both of those systems are now compatible
18:35
Speaker 2: with the navigation systems that you already see in the market.
18:38
Speaker 2: So we recognized appropriately so that there's an install base
18:42
Speaker 2: that's quite massive, and so surgeons have spent the money
18:46
Speaker 2: for these expensive robotics and navigation solutions as you mentioned,
18:49
Speaker 2: and it's integrated into their workflow. So strategy one is
18:53
Speaker 2: to take our implants and instruments and make sure they're
18:55
Speaker 2: compatible with the systems that are already out there. So
18:57
Speaker 2: that's happened now, and that's very good because the surgeon
19:00
Speaker 2: can use our products without having to acquire a new
19:02
Speaker 2: piece of capital, equipment or change that workflow. In addition, though,
19:05
Speaker 2: we also fully recognize that as a top seven spying
19:08
Speaker 2: implant provider, we need an enabling tech solution that is
19:11
Speaker 2: more than just making this stuff compatible, which is why
19:14
Speaker 2: we just launched a partnership with Pathkeeper in the fall,
19:18
Speaker 2: so about about five months into this, and we are
19:20
Speaker 2: the exclusive distributor in the United States for Pathkeeper, which
19:23
Speaker 2: is a navigation platform that allows us to now co
19:26
Speaker 2: develop with them where we will have solutions for things
19:29
Speaker 2: like the tether that are very unique and proprietary to
19:31
Speaker 2: us through Pathkeeper.
19:33
Speaker 1: Very interesting, Let's jump into the Pathkeeper because then that's
19:35
Speaker 1: going to kind of segue to the next part where
19:37
Speaker 1: you know, the expansion with acquisitions. But I'm jumping ahead
19:40
Speaker 1: here with Pathkeeper itself. What is the technology because you know,
19:46
Speaker 1: when I looked it up, it was you know, the
19:48
Speaker 1: predicate was the seven D Surgical Envision three D, which
19:51
Speaker 1: is kind of a novel navigation system using kind of
19:56
Speaker 1: ultrasonic light or I'll let you describe it a little
19:59
Speaker 1: bit more, but it's differentiated from the rest of the technology.
20:02
Speaker 1: So is the how is the Pathkeeper going to kind
20:04
Speaker 1: of be that novel new navigation system in the market.
20:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think they have a couple of things
20:09
Speaker 2: going for them. The first is the price point. Again,
20:13
Speaker 2: some institutions, the big academic learning centers can afford the
20:16
Speaker 2: million dollar plus platforms, but most cannot. And so Pathkeeper's
20:20
Speaker 2: done a very nice job of developing what I would
20:22
Speaker 2: consider this next wave of next generation enabling tech that
20:26
Speaker 2: is keeping the price point very much front and center.
20:29
Speaker 2: That was not the case when the first wave came out,
20:31
Speaker 2: and so they're priced appropriately. Where our goal is to
20:34
Speaker 2: get this in the hands of every ASC and every
20:36
Speaker 2: community hospital as well as the large academic teaching centers,
20:40
Speaker 2: so that this basically building accessibility so surgeons and institutions
20:44
Speaker 2: that want it can afford it. That's number one. Number two,
20:47
Speaker 2: the workflow is very simple, so it's very easy for
20:50
Speaker 2: a surgeon to adopt the Pathkeeper technology and not have
20:53
Speaker 2: to learn how to run a very complex, cumbersome machine
20:56
Speaker 2: or change the way they operate. So they've done a
20:58
Speaker 2: nice job of kind of seamlessly in a writing all that,
21:00
Speaker 2: which is great. And then to your point, it's predicated
21:03
Speaker 2: off of seven D, so operates very similarly similarly in
21:06
Speaker 2: terms of how it behaves and the navigation it provides.
21:09
Speaker 2: So we're excited about it. We're starting with the complex
21:12
Speaker 2: spine applications because of our strength and the tether and
21:15
Speaker 2: the complex s bine in general, but working with them
21:17
Speaker 2: to develop a minimally invasive approach as well, which will
21:20
Speaker 2: help expand the relevance outside of just this complex line.
21:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I actually what catches my attention that with
21:26
Speaker 1: the seven D though, was the fact that because it
21:28
Speaker 1: was using light versus kind of optical lenses, there wasn't
21:34
Speaker 1: the risk of having to reposition the patient if the
21:39
Speaker 1: optical sensors and the kind of older navigation systems got
21:44
Speaker 1: out of line. Is that the same with the path
21:47
Speaker 1: keeper exactly?
21:48
Speaker 2: Yep, that's exactly right. So you've got benefits as far
21:51
Speaker 2: as that goes. And it's also very very very low radiation,
21:54
Speaker 2: which is becoming a growing concern, So you know, keeping
21:57
Speaker 2: that radiation does down, especially in these pediatric scolios kids
22:00
Speaker 2: is critical. So yeah, all of the above, I think
22:03
Speaker 2: it's a very compelling value prop with some nice features
22:05
Speaker 2: and benefits that but it's also not asking for a
22:08
Speaker 2: massive seed change in terms of adoption and usage, and
22:11
Speaker 2: so I think it kind of hits that sweet spot
22:13
Speaker 2: of being differentiated enough but not asking for a huge
22:16
Speaker 2: learning curve for adoption.
22:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what is how are you investing in
22:20
Speaker 1: that commercial plan? Is it salesforce? Is it increased manufacturing?
22:25
Speaker 1: A combination of two other factors involved.
22:28
Speaker 2: So that's the other really nice thing is relatively simple
22:31
Speaker 2: to learn. And so our existing salesforce, we have over
22:34
Speaker 2: four hundred sales reps in the United States, they can
22:36
Speaker 2: pick this up, train it, you know. There the Pathkeeper
22:39
Speaker 2: team is helping us of course with the capital sale
22:41
Speaker 2: and items of that nature. But yeah, it'll be integrated
22:43
Speaker 2: into our salesforce and so we won't require a specialized salesforce.
22:46
Speaker 2: And that idea is that if you overburden a process
22:50
Speaker 2: in the infrastructure, it can become number one, it's not
22:53
Speaker 2: you know, sustainable from a cost perspective, but number two
22:56
Speaker 2: it becomes too complicated. So simplicity here is the key,
22:59
Speaker 2: and the ability to just weave this into our existing
23:01
Speaker 2: salesforce is a huge plus.
23:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it's you know we're talking about. It's just
23:05
Speaker 1: how do you get that navigation out there and everything
23:07
Speaker 1: to the masses. Essentially, Yes, but that's not the only
23:11
Speaker 1: thing you guys have expanded the portfolio with. You've also
23:14
Speaker 1: had the acquisition of a sels's key products, and then
23:18
Speaker 1: you also have a licensing and agreement to use the
23:21
Speaker 1: active L. I'll let you choose which direction to go
23:26
Speaker 1: with describing those products. But it just seems like there's
23:29
Speaker 1: a common theme here of taking that capital that you
23:31
Speaker 1: took from the bone healing divestiture and incorporating it into
23:35
Speaker 1: expanding your portfolio.
23:37
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, you're exactly right, And all this was very intentional.
23:40
Speaker 2: We've got a bunch going on internally in terms of
23:42
Speaker 2: new development, but we knew we couldn't get it all
23:45
Speaker 2: done fast enough, and so going out to source some
23:47
Speaker 2: of these portfolio gaps rapidly was part of our strategies.
23:50
Speaker 2: So starting with active L, that's an interesting one because
23:53
Speaker 2: we've got this strength and MOBC. Active L is a
23:56
Speaker 2: lumbard disc replacement, and it's actually been on the market
23:58
Speaker 2: for quite some time through ask you lap so b
24:02
Speaker 2: Braun parent company over in Germany. Their focus is really
24:05
Speaker 2: in Europe, and they approached us a year or so ago,
24:08
Speaker 2: a little longer than that, actually indicating their desire to
24:11
Speaker 2: exit the US market. And so we actually have acquired
24:14
Speaker 2: the product for the US and so more of just
24:16
Speaker 2: a licensing deal, we own it now, We own the
24:18
Speaker 2: five ten k we own the design history files. The
24:20
Speaker 2: reason that matters is because we're able to launch it
24:23
Speaker 2: actually this month under the high Rich name. So it's
24:26
Speaker 2: a really nice compliment to MOBC, and it now puts
24:29
Speaker 2: us squarely in that position of one of two solutions
24:32
Speaker 2: for lambar spying disk replacement and then MOBC. You put
24:36
Speaker 2: the two products next to each other, they almost look
24:38
Speaker 2: like cousins of each other. So the design is very similar,
24:41
Speaker 2: the surgeon customer base is very similar. So we're really
24:44
Speaker 2: excited to continue to invest in motion preservation solutions because
24:49
Speaker 2: again for patients who can are properly indicated, it's just
24:52
Speaker 2: such a better option. So really excited about that. That's
24:55
Speaker 2: one the sales point. We actually sought out an expandable
25:00
Speaker 2: cage because that's been a gap in our portfolio and
25:04
Speaker 2: when the Seals opportunity presented itself, the more we learned
25:07
Speaker 2: about it, the more excited we got because they have
25:09
Speaker 2: a very unique differentiated flare Hawk is the name of
25:12
Speaker 2: the cage, and that exists today and is doing fantastically
25:15
Speaker 2: well since we close that deal in September. In development
25:19
Speaker 2: is another expandable cage platform called Toro, and that is
25:22
Speaker 2: a titanium expandable more of a traditional solution for both
25:26
Speaker 2: a lift tliff and lateral and so we're actively developing
25:29
Speaker 2: that out. Again, one of the things we were able
25:31
Speaker 2: to do was pick up that IP and that development work,
25:34
Speaker 2: but really put fuel on top of it now with
25:37
Speaker 2: it being in our hands and so looking to introduce
25:39
Speaker 2: that over the next year or two. And that's going
25:41
Speaker 2: to be another, I guess arrow in our quiver when
25:44
Speaker 2: it comes to kind of building out that expandable cage platform.
25:47
Speaker 2: So really excited about those assets. And we also picked
25:49
Speaker 2: up some great talent from the sales team, marketing operations,
25:53
Speaker 2: R and D and they're doing great inside.
25:54
Speaker 1: A Hyrid interesting and then you know, kind of it's
25:57
Speaker 1: interesting you talk about how you know toro is used
26:00
Speaker 1: for a lift lift lateral. Those cases makes me think
26:04
Speaker 1: about the spine market in general. Let's just kind of
26:06
Speaker 1: circle back there, because it's really three D chess. In
26:10
Speaker 1: my mind, it feels like you have the cervical spine region,
26:13
Speaker 1: you have the lumbar spine region, you have you know,
26:17
Speaker 1: the the as you go down all the vertebrates. You
26:20
Speaker 1: have different surgery preferences or you know, you have the
26:25
Speaker 1: A lift T lift lateral, different you know, areas to
26:29
Speaker 1: go into the body. And then you also have these
26:31
Speaker 1: kind of different treatment options with either bodies. You have
26:37
Speaker 1: expandable bodies. Within those inner bodies, you've got the motion preservation,
26:40
Speaker 1: you got enabling technology, you got you know, dis replacement
26:45
Speaker 1: versus cages, things like that. It's a long winded way
26:48
Speaker 1: of saying, how have you seen the spine market evolved
26:51
Speaker 1: over the years, and what are some of the key
26:53
Speaker 1: developments that you're most excited about?
26:56
Speaker 2: You even just listening to you, it's amazing. This is
26:59
Speaker 2: such a complicated market. That's why it's fun and I
27:02
Speaker 2: think that's why we love it. But to your point,
27:03
Speaker 2: there are a million ways you can approach any spine
27:06
Speaker 2: surgery and there is no one way to do it,
27:08
Speaker 2: and again that's why there are so many products and
27:10
Speaker 2: solutions to satisfy all these different approaches and all the
27:13
Speaker 2: different surgeon preferences. I think we are seeing a movement
27:17
Speaker 2: toward a couple of key things. One, I think the
27:20
Speaker 2: motion preservation and when people don't have to be fused.
27:23
Speaker 2: I think there's a growing awareness as this informed healthcare
27:26
Speaker 2: consumer understands that there are options out there that don't
27:29
Speaker 2: necessarily require a fusion. So I do think we'll continue
27:32
Speaker 2: to see that space to grow, not just arthroplasty or
27:35
Speaker 2: even this tethering solution we have, but in general, I
27:37
Speaker 2: think there's a trend toward how can I treat this
27:40
Speaker 2: situation as least invasively as possible. I think that's the
27:43
Speaker 2: only going to continue.
27:44
Speaker 1: I agree with that because I mean, think about just
27:46
Speaker 1: as the aging population, they're more active still, yes, And
27:51
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, you know, we were talking about skiing
27:53
Speaker 1: earlier before this recording started, and I'm just thinking, my
27:56
Speaker 1: dad is still skiing. He's in the seventies, and so
27:58
Speaker 1: basically being able to have that ability to keep doing
28:02
Speaker 1: what you love to do requires that kind of motion preservation.
28:05
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, and so I think even solutions
28:08
Speaker 2: we haven't thought about yet. I mean, one of the
28:10
Speaker 2: things that we're working on is taking that toether technology
28:13
Speaker 2: and applying it to adult indications. Is there a way
28:15
Speaker 2: to almost provide a strain relief on the top and
28:18
Speaker 2: bottom of these fusion constructs to preserve that mobility. So
28:21
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot there, And at least what
28:23
Speaker 2: I hear from patients and surgeons alike is again that
28:26
Speaker 2: informed healthcare consumer is starting to ask questions and information's
28:30
Speaker 2: out there now where people can come to the table
28:32
Speaker 2: with an opinion and a desire, right, rather than just
28:35
Speaker 2: you need a fusion So there you go. So I
28:36
Speaker 2: think that's number one. I think the other huge area
28:39
Speaker 2: that is just about to explode is not just enabling technology,
28:42
Speaker 2: but AI and what that means for treating better outcomes
28:46
Speaker 2: or creating better outcomes. I mean that that, to me
28:48
Speaker 2: is where we're about to see the next big wave
28:50
Speaker 2: of innovation. We're seeing it everywhere right in every day
28:53
Speaker 2: to day life. But if you think about it being
28:55
Speaker 2: able to take a million different examples of how patients
28:58
Speaker 2: have been treated touched on all the different options there
29:01
Speaker 2: are to be able to plug that into an algorithm
29:03
Speaker 2: and say, for this patient, you know, this gender, is height,
29:06
Speaker 2: this weight, everything else that goes into it, this is
29:09
Speaker 2: the very best way to treat that patient based on AI.
29:12
Speaker 2: I think that is truly going to change the way
29:14
Speaker 2: spine care is approached. And one of the interesting things
29:17
Speaker 2: about spine is that the outcomes, at least for lumbar
29:19
Speaker 2: spine are still not where they need to be. So,
29:22
Speaker 2: you know, we're getting better as an industry, but we
29:24
Speaker 2: still have not solved the perfect way to treat these patients.
29:27
Speaker 2: And I think AI is going to help tremendously with that.
29:29
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I'm going to love to jump into
29:30
Speaker 1: AI in a few minutes. But just the last thing
29:32
Speaker 1: about the spine market that I'm just curious about is,
29:34
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about, you know, certain specifically enabling technology.
29:40
Speaker 1: We talked about the pathkeeper has a lower ASP, which
29:43
Speaker 1: is ideal for the ASC setting and the amulatory surgical
29:46
Speaker 1: center setting. What does the rise of ASC mean for
29:52
Speaker 1: the spine market overall from volume perspective, from products that
29:56
Speaker 1: the ASC would buy that maybe the hospital won buy.
29:59
Speaker 1: Just curious your thoughts on where that direction is going.
30:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I actually spent two years when I was
30:04
Speaker 2: inside a Zimmer on the hipp and eese side starting
30:06
Speaker 2: up their ASC division, and so I novaus space really
30:09
Speaker 2: well and it's fascinating hips and these were driving that
30:12
Speaker 2: charge through. COVID Spine was a very quick follower behind it.
30:16
Speaker 2: And as we've talked many times already today about the
30:18
Speaker 2: complexities of spine, it's not for every procedure and spine,
30:22
Speaker 2: but for those that are appropriately matched to that setting,
30:25
Speaker 2: I think we're only going to see it continue to grow.
30:27
Speaker 2: MOBYC is a great example, you know, cervical disc replacement
30:30
Speaker 2: that is a perfect procedure for the ASC because you
30:33
Speaker 2: have an otherwise healthy, active patient to your point that
30:36
Speaker 2: is looking to get in and out same day. It's
30:38
Speaker 2: I used to save this the whole time. The ACS
30:40
Speaker 2: are better for the patient, better for the surgeon, and
30:42
Speaker 2: better for the provider and the pair. So it's one
30:44
Speaker 2: of these unique areas in healthcare where everybody wins. One
30:48
Speaker 2: stakeholder doesn't have to give anything up to benefit the others,
30:50
Speaker 2: and so I think because of that, the shift will continue.
30:54
Speaker 2: The challenge on the industry side is the complexities of
30:57
Speaker 2: servicing these customers where the surgeon is never going to
31:00
Speaker 2: do all of his or her surgeries in a surgery center,
31:02
Speaker 2: and so inventory needs multiply because now you're operating in
31:06
Speaker 2: multiple locations in Yeah, and that's a very real concern
31:09
Speaker 2: that we have to solve for on the industry side
31:11
Speaker 2: because inventory and spine is not cheap. Yeah, the complexities
31:14
Speaker 2: of having sales reps in multiple locations to cover these cases.
31:17
Speaker 2: So these are logistics that we're actively working on.
31:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's let's just jump into AI because that
31:23
Speaker 1: could be a great segue for that inventory management because
31:25
Speaker 1: you know, we had a guest on and recent IPO
31:29
Speaker 1: talking about how their AI technology allows them to develop
31:34
Speaker 1: and implant customized for the patient. And one of the
31:36
Speaker 1: things that it does is it reduces that inventory need
31:40
Speaker 1: because you already know the size of the implant that
31:43
Speaker 1: the patient is going to have, so they do the
31:45
Speaker 1: you know, the preoperative planning, they customize the implant, the
31:49
Speaker 1: implant gets delivered. So walk me through your thoughts on
31:54
Speaker 1: that AI and if that's what you're thinking about as
31:56
Speaker 1: well within regards to that inventory management.
31:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think AI for sure is going to benefit
32:01
Speaker 2: clinical outcomes as we talked about, but you're right, efficiencies
32:05
Speaker 2: because it takes the guesswork out of it using data,
32:08
Speaker 2: so you're not just hoping that you're going to have
32:10
Speaker 2: the right inventory. You can actually prove it through these algorithms.
32:13
Speaker 2: And you're right. What it does for us is if
32:15
Speaker 2: we can reduce our cost to serve, we can pass
32:17
Speaker 2: along that value to surgeons, we can innovate more. So
32:20
Speaker 2: much of our time right now and our resources go
32:22
Speaker 2: into inventory management and so using AI to be smarter
32:26
Speaker 2: about it, and I love this bell curve, right. I mean,
32:29
Speaker 2: as you know you're going to use one implant in
32:32
Speaker 2: a patient, but you've got to bring in everything in
32:33
Speaker 2: the kitchen sink because you just don't know quote unquote right.
32:36
Speaker 2: AI takes that guesswork out. And my analogy is always,
32:39
Speaker 2: you know, if I were a size seven shoe, I
32:42
Speaker 2: don't order everything from a five and a half to
32:44
Speaker 2: a thirteen and half size increments. I order a size seven,
32:47
Speaker 2: and if I'm not sure, maybe I order a seven
32:48
Speaker 2: and a half just in case. But in spine we
32:50
Speaker 2: bring in everything and then send ninety percent of it back.
32:53
Speaker 2: So it's wildly inefficient, and AI will help with that
32:56
Speaker 2: because to your point, being able to customize the implants
32:59
Speaker 2: that are needed based on patient input is going to
33:02
Speaker 2: be a game changer. So really excited about what it
33:04
Speaker 2: means operationally as well as clinically.
33:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what's Hyridge's strategy for all this, because you know,
33:10
Speaker 1: you talked about earlier when you were talking with your
33:13
Speaker 1: partners at HIG the commitment to doubling that R and
33:18
Speaker 1: D investment. So I'm assuming there's got to be a
33:21
Speaker 1: little bit of AI component in that R and D
33:23
Speaker 1: investment internally or externally. I'd just love to hear what
33:26
Speaker 1: your thoughts are with that.
33:27
Speaker 2: Yes, So we're very early on the AI side of things.
33:29
Speaker 2: I'm actually very excited. We're coming up on our two
33:31
Speaker 2: year Hybridge anniversary April first, and a lot of the
33:35
Speaker 2: work has been restarting the innovation engine, separating the company,
33:39
Speaker 2: hiring the team. Nowouts all behind us, and so part
33:42
Speaker 2: of that long story short, we have an amazing IT
33:44
Speaker 2: leader who has been very focused on making sure the
33:47
Speaker 2: nuts and bolts are set. Now that that's behind us,
33:49
Speaker 2: we're turning our attention to AI, and so what we're
33:51
Speaker 2: doing right now is incorporating that into these design team
33:54
Speaker 2: discussions we have with these surgeons to think about ways
33:57
Speaker 2: as we innovate these new systems, how could we AI
34:00
Speaker 2: right from the beginning. So that's about as far as
34:02
Speaker 2: we've gone so far, but we're about to turn that
34:04
Speaker 2: up and I'm excited about what's next for that. On
34:06
Speaker 2: the operations side, we're looking at all kinds of different
34:09
Speaker 2: systems and solutions that will allow us to take that
34:11
Speaker 2: and do exactly what you said, which is streamline our sets,
34:14
Speaker 2: provide information to our our surgeon customers and frankly administration
34:18
Speaker 2: as well to help them make better decisions. Particularly in
34:21
Speaker 2: the ASC setting, it's important to provide. It's more of
34:24
Speaker 2: a business to business sell. So if we can use
34:26
Speaker 2: tools like AI to help them run their practice more
34:29
Speaker 2: efficiently and therefore require less inventory from us, again, everybody
34:33
Speaker 2: wins and we're able to just make a much better
34:35
Speaker 2: business to business relationship there because it's more of a
34:37
Speaker 2: just selling an implant at that point.
34:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know, as we kind of close
34:41
Speaker 1: out this episode, just love to hear how we collect
34:44
Speaker 1: all these thoughts together, and you know we kind of
34:47
Speaker 1: themes I'm getting out of this is you know, you're
34:50
Speaker 1: you're specializing in key growth opportunities within spine. How does
34:55
Speaker 1: that play out over the next five years or so.
34:57
Speaker 1: Is this something where you just keep those that bread
35:00
Speaker 1: and butter and you just dive deeper and get more
35:03
Speaker 1: penetration that way, or is this an expansion story where
35:07
Speaker 1: you expand that portfolio at so will you become a
35:09
Speaker 1: more diversified spine company like some of these larger companies
35:13
Speaker 1: that are out there today.
35:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I would say innovation is a long term strategy.
35:17
Speaker 2: It wasn't a twenty twenty five initiative. Our pipeline and
35:21
Speaker 2: everything we want to do is just getting going. So
35:23
Speaker 2: you can expect more from us, whether it's additional M
35:26
Speaker 2: and A. Our internal development efforts are starting to hit
35:29
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six in a big way. Also, so
35:31
Speaker 2: you know, innovation is the lifeblood of any medtech company,
35:34
Speaker 2: in particular spine. It's the best way to boost top
35:36
Speaker 2: line revenue. And we're not going to stop. And I
35:38
Speaker 2: would say that what's unique about us is we're also
35:41
Speaker 2: building a surgeon destination at High ridch and so we're
35:44
Speaker 2: doing this in very close partnership with the surgeon community
35:47
Speaker 2: and that's been really fun to see these surgeons come
35:50
Speaker 2: to the facility and really partner with our engineers to
35:52
Speaker 2: make sure that we're building a company this relevant, not
35:55
Speaker 2: just today but five plus years out. So much more
35:57
Speaker 2: to come on the innovation from.
35:58
Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking forward to that. And you know what,
36:00
Speaker 1: maybe next year in twenty twenty seven, when we kind
36:03
Speaker 1: of have this follow up conversation with you, we'll bring
36:06
Speaker 1: it closer to April. We'll bring a birthday cake. We
36:08
Speaker 1: can celebrate your third birthday.
36:10
Speaker 2: Rich I love it.
36:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Rebecca, thank you so much for joining us today.
36:14
Speaker 2: Thank you it was a real pleasure, appreciate it.
36:16
Speaker 1: And thank you to our producer Mariam Trory for all
36:19
Speaker 1: the behind the scenes work, and thank you to our
36:21
Speaker 1: listeners for tuning in today. We hope you join us
36:24
Speaker 1: for future episodes, and if you'd like to stay up
36:25
Speaker 1: to date, you can click the subscribe button on Spotify
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Speaker 1: or your favorite streaming platform. Take care,