Latest / Online Business Uncovered: Simple Strategies for Female Entrepreneurs / 57: From offline to online with guest Lori Webber

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57: From offline to online with guest Lori Webber · Online Business Uncovered: Simple Strategies for Female Entrepreneurs

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the digitally she does it show.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is episode 57, and in today's episode, I'm talking to my guest Laurie Weeber about what it takes to create a successful online program.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So let's jump right in and get started.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the digitally she does it show.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Karen, and I'm here to lift the lid on what it actually takes to create a successful business.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you are an ambitious creative ready to build a business on your own terms and without compromise, then this podcast is perfect for you.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: With my award-winning approach to marketing and expert knowledge in creating online courses, this show will leave you feeling inspired, energized, and ready to bring those big dreams to life.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Join me each week for a dose of motivation and marketing know-how, along with actionable step-by-step strategies to help you accelerate your business's growth.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So let's dive in and don't forget to subscribe to all my upcoming episodes, which drop every Wednesday.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Digitally She Does It Show.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am going to be talking to my guest, Lori Weaver, who runs the Mindful Eating Clinic.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Lori has created her own online course and program, and so I thought today it would be great to bring her on board so we can dive into her business and she can share her own experience when it comes to creating an online product that serves many people and that helps her clients to move forward.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, Laurie, thank you very much for coming on board today.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've been talking about this for a while, so I'm really excited that you are joining me.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to just tell the listeners a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you help your clients?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, yes.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, firstly, thank you, Karen, very much for having me and hello everyone listening.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, so my name's Laurie, and as Karen says, my business is the Mindful Eating Clinic.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And essentially, what I do is I help people find a happy life with food.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what that means is I can support people who have what you might call a disordered pattern of eating, and that might be something like yo-yo dieting, a kind of a roller coaster of weight gain and weight loss.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also offer coaching on a slightly more therapeutic basis for people with overeating disorders.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I help people find a relationship with food that is normal and much more um instinctive, much more intuitive, so that they can just live a much more freer life, you know, that it's um food freedom is one of my little taglines, and that's what I really try and and and create for people.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it came out of my own experience.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a chronic period of disordered eating, and I managed to put that right relatively late in my career.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was in my mid-50s, and because I was so kind of chuffed, I think, that I'd finally done it, I sort of thought, well, I don't really want to sit back, I want to try and reach people in as many different ways as I can to help them hopefully do it sooner than I did.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And hence this whole idea about looking at various ways that I could touch, touch people, um, initially one-to-one, either face to face or online, and then looking at other ways to get that to get that information out.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So to offer people a different kind of kind of journey, which I know is what we're going to perhaps talk about in a bit more detail today.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that sounds great.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's one of those things that not everyone obviously will need what what it is that you offer, but those that do, it's going to be so valuable to them.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I know sort of with eating, I I guess sometimes it can be just you know, from really bad habits, or like you say, from a disorder that people are experiencing, but just having that support in place, being able to guide people, given the fact that you have that experience yourself, I think is is really powerful.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's quite interesting actually how many people have something going on around food that they actually find uncomfortable.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it might just be that they have endless cravings, you know, that they they can't just have one bit biscuit from a packet, they actually find that they always end up eating all of them and they don't want that, you know.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be something that appears like that relatively small to something that is perhaps more fully blown and dominates and has dominated someone's life for for quite a long time.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that I think can be all-encompassing as well.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: It plays out in other areas of their life, doesn't it?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, you know, yeah, it plays it plays out in the way they eat, but often it's connected to something so much deeper that often needs to be addressed as well.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely right.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and so my approach looks at all those potential external factors that might actually be creating a situation where the eating behavior is what somebody needs to do in order to manage something else.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And some of those discoveries can be really eye-opening for many, many people, and sometimes by by addressing some of those factors, someone can actually sort out a lot of the eating on its own without always directly challenging the eating behaviour itself.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of unhelpful eating behaviour is because of poor nutrition as well, and that really underpins a lot of the work that I do.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that we that we look at early on.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that because the work is quite multifaceted or holistic or however you want to put it, that's actually why, in a way, when I first started to look at writing a course, that was a little bit challenging because I sort of because my work with with clients is very bespoke.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have someone who sat in front of me and I do a sort of diagnostic um assessment, and then I think, right, well, I'm gonna actually give them this tool now, or I'm gonna give them that tool.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's easier to respond face to face because you're in that sort of immediate situation.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas online I had to stand back and I had to try and think, right, okay, so what's the most logical journey for someone?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of what's the normal order or the the average side of sort of process that I would go through with someone?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to I had to stop myself from thinking, yeah, but what if, what if, because the nature of the of the online programme, which is called the Mindful Way, um is that it should take someone on a logical journey to hopefully get to the point that they would get to if they were working one-to-one, but obviously in a different context and format and also with a different price point.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so I had to sort of try and put myself in the shoes and try and think, you know, really work it out step by step.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually found myself when I was designing the programme adding in additional pieces of material just to try and cover off some of those what ifs, you know, to try and sort of have a little safety net to say, right, if at this moment you're thinking or you're feeling, and then to sort of offer something at that particular particular point.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been a very, very exhilarating actually, and and I and I don't and that's not my my um hyperbole at all.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it really has been really interesting and fascinating and quite stimulating for my one-to-one work to actually think about some of those additional uh tools, additional pieces of content that somebody might need in order for that journey, and I know that word's used a lot, but I think when someone's on an online course, particularly when it's something like this, when it's about self-development of some sort, I think you really have to try and make that journey as smooth and as logical and hand-holding as you possibly possibly can.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why my program is littered with videos because I want them to feel as much as possible that they are sat in front of me for those two or three minutes at that particular stage in the course.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree with you.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think that's the thing with when you automate something that you deliver in person, that journey needs to really be planned out and thought through because that's the pathway, that's that's what your students are going to be following to get to that result.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that's the point of it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so the experience of I think delivering something in person and then putting it online is so different, and and as you touched upon, there is more thought needed, I think, in terms of what your students are going to need because everybody consumes content so very differently.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So some people like the visual, some people like to read text, some people like workbooks to work through, some people like video or audio and whatnot.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you create something that is going to be put out in the world and you know, going to be put in front of people that like to consume in different ways, then as a course creator or or somebody that's creating a program, having to step back and think, okay, how can I deliver this in a way that's really going to land with my students, but is also going to touch upon the different ways that they like to learn as well, so that they get the best learning experience from me because ultimately I want the content that I'm I'm creating, I want that to land, I want that to work for them, and you know, so so maybe I need to kind of try and approach this in different ways.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting that you touched upon video because video is great because you get to build rapport with the person behind the camera.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: People get to see your face, they get to know you, get they get to like you, they get to build that trust with you.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and even though you know many people obviously don't want to be in front of the camera because you know then there may be that sense of they don't want their face all over the course and they don't want to see it be seen, they just want to maybe create audio over slides or or or whatever that looks like.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think V video is so important for connection because they get to they get to see you, they get to experience your journey, and they'll they'll feed on the energy that you're bringing through in those videos.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think so, and um and it it obviously depends what it what the course is on, you know.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you're if you're teaching somebody something very practical, like like um well, I was gonna say car mechanics, but that then I'm thinking, well, you probably videos are really important then because you've got to show, but it wouldn't necessarily have your face on it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And but I would I would say that very often there's a reason why someone has bought your course rather than someone else's, and that surely eight times out of ten, nine times out of ten, is gonna be because because because it's you, because it might be the way that you're expressing yourself.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so if nothing else, maybe just come on at the beginning and say hello, welcome to my to my course, and and just to give them a give them a taste of what they're going to get, even if they don't need to have that personal connection with you every single single time.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing about video is is that is that yes, it is it is not very comfortable for some people because they don't like to see themselves.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um but um but what what helped me when I first started to do all of this stuff, which was quite a long time ago, because I've had other businesses where I've had to show up in this way, so it's a bit easier for me.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: But um I always just imagine that I'm just talking to one person.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody is is is a bit nervous about it, just imagine you've got your best friend in front of you and you're just gonna say, Hello, John, welcome to my course.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: What you're gonna get is one, two, three, four, and I hope that you can and and that's it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And just make it nice and conversational and don't and just don't worry.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, if there's the odd little hiccup in the voice, I think that's much more natural.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not in the 1950s BBC delivery anymore where everything has to be, you know, very, very plummy and very, very absolutely perfect.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't at all.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It just needs to be relaxed.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Crikey, if you look at half the stuff on YouTube, it's so it's so casual.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's all sorts of of you know stumbling over words and things, isn't there?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just how everyone is now.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it adds to charm.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it it's it's interesting because I've done courses where like I did I did a uh quite big course where the person delivering the course, it were you it so much money was thrown at the course, like it was the production was spot on, there was not a word out of place, there was not an um, an uh, a you know, you know, those filler words, there was nothing, it was so perfect, but I felt like it lacked something, it lacked a realness about it because it was so staged, and they they felt obviously felt that that was the right thing that they wanted to deliver for their for their course, but I don't think it needs to be like that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is charm in something being real, I think that's what people buy into, and it's only natural in everyday life that you're going to stumble over your words or you're going to add an um or an R into something, and it's okay for it to happen.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's more important is the value and the content that you're delivering and making sure that it's exactly what your students need at that point.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what they're most likely going to you know care about, not whether you are pitch perfect and on point with all of your videos, and it's and it's exhausting, isn't it?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to be perfect.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing this is the thing that stops progress because everybody's idea is so different.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So what I see as being perfect, somebody else might come in and be like, oh, that's not, that's not, that's I I that's not right.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So and so because it's so subjective, it doesn't exist.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can't sit and worry that your your content isn't perfect enough, or your videos don't look good enough, or all of this, that's not the point of it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: The point is that you're creating this content that provides so much value to your students that it supports them in their journey, and I think that's the thing.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, because you'll be amazed how many people I speak to who like, I I I want to create an online course, but I don't want to be in front of the camera, and so instantly they they they have cancelled it out, they're not gonna be in front of the camera.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, and I'd also like to pick up on that point that you said about perfection, and I think that sometimes when we're writing content, so so my my big flagship program, The Mindful Way, which I just mentioned, that actually came after I had created another couple of shorter, smaller online programs, courses.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I had already sort of got to grips with a little bit of the idea of um the flow of the content, but I think even if you're doing it for the first time, I think you have to at some point say, right, what is my overall, my overarching outcome?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's my intention for this course?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And how will most people um need content in order to get there?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can't possibly predict everybody's learning style.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think at some point you have to sort of stand back and say, right, I think that's about it, because otherwise we can keep adding to it all the time, and then it rather defeats the object, which certainly in my case was to have something that was going to provide some passive income that actually took didn't that that that took some time to pet to put together, of course, but then didn't take any of my ongoing time at a much lower price point so that I'm offering something across a range of prices for people to suit all different budgets.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um whereas if you're just constantly going in reinventing the wheel all the time, you're you're actually giving that giving that course too much time for it to actually be serving certainly that commercial purpose for you.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we have to bear that in mind.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, once it's out there, maybe have a tool that allows people to give you some feedback.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So on on the platform that I use, which at the at the moment is teachable, although I'm looking at other things and we can talk about that if that's useful, um, it it allows me on my steps, which is what I call them, teachable calls them lessons, I think, it allows student student comments.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when anyone um enrolls, in my opening video, I say, please, please, please leave a comment.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Something really worked for you, that would be really helpful, if there's anything that you think could be better, I'm really, really open to it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I also put my email address in.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've had some emails come through suggesting little you know changes, and I thought, God, that's actually brilliant.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can't possibly test and live the course in the way that everybody's going to.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, there's nothing to stop you then going back and and changing a few things around.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it can it can evolve, it doesn't have to be perfect.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, it's it's something that's going to evolve, like you say, you're not going to get it perfect necessarily the first time around.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You might get it close, but the only way to really know if what you've created works is by getting it out in front of people, getting people on board, getting their feedback, getting their insight, and then tweaking and amending and then putting it back out and then and then rinse and repeat.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the way you build a successful online course or a program that really does serve your audience.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that whole thing about perfection, it's like, I don't know if my course is going to work, I don't know if it's good enough, I don't know if people need this, even though the it should have been validated really at the beginning.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But but it but even those sort of imposter syndrome, you know, feelings can start to come in at that point where it's time to get it out into the world, and you it ends up sort of being so all consuming because because what happens is you you start to sabotage getting your your course or programme out there because you're so caught up in the fact that it I don't know if this is perfection, I don't know if this is gonna, you know, and there are so many ways to address that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the the the key is to get people into your course or your program because that's going to be the thing that's going to tell you exactly what it is is working, what is not working, what needs tweaking, and that feedback is so incredibly valuable because, like you said, you wouldn't necessarily have known unless somebody pointed out that you know this minor tweak could could happen, and and that could tense your program.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That it could be the thing that takes your program to the next level, that little change that somebody else has suggested.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's and it isn't a criticism.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: This whole thing, feedback is a gift, and and it is, and I think we have to let go of some of that, don't we?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And say, look, just because you have a constructive stroke negative point, that's actually for us as course creators to decide what to do with.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to act on it, but I think we'd be we'd be silly if we didn't consider whether this person had a point, but this person could be one in a hundred, and the other ninety nine, actually, it's fine for, and I think because we're the experts, we have to take a take a judgment on that, don't we?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's still helpful to have the suggestion.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Always, always.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also, just another point I want to make on that is if you put your course out in into the world and you're attracting people to your course, you would be really lucky if you didn't get somebody that wanted a refund or made a complaint or in in the history of running that course.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because here's the thing you're you're putting something out and you hope that you're going to attract the right students to the thing that you have created.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Chances are one in a hundred customer students, you're going to get somebody that is going to criticize it, that is not going.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: To be very nice, that is going to want to refund for whatever reason.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to be right for them.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't mean that the program or the course is rubbish, it's it's not valuable.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's nothing to do with that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's sometimes you just attract the wrong type of people, and that's it.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And not everybody has the right mindset, you know, not everybody is prepared to do the work.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the other thing as well.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're creating something that you're asking somebody to do.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you are asking them to spend time, work through your content, do what you're asking them to do, invest in themselves, commit to it, and not everybody, not every student is going to be able to do that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not a reflection on you as a course creator.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just have to be brave, you just have to do it, and you have to accept, like any service or product, there's always going to be someone that that it isn't going to work for.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of people in in my kind of work, lots of would, you know, want more of a magic wand.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a number of reasons for that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some people are very, very connected and attached to the way that they that they eat, and they and they might think that they should change something, but they don't really want to change something.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, in my online program, I have something that I don't tend to do in my one-to-one, and that is a section on where they are on the on the change circle, so that they can actually ask themselves, are they ready to start, or do they need kind of a week to get their head straight?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, and then I give them a couple of exercises to look at where they are now and look at where they want to get to, so that that actually creates more of a mindset for change.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really need to do that in one-to-one because with the one-to-one, it's more of a commitment, so they they already know that they are sort of in that place because they're making more of a financial investment in the time.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a tweak that I had to make.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to also just come back to the point that we were talking about in terms of learning styles, and and so on my program, I've tried to think about the the auditory, the visual, and the kinesthetic learning styles, which are the three main ones.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've got the videos, I've also got not a transcript of what I'm saying, but a written sort of summary there or thereabouts of the points that I'm making in the video within the same the same step.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've got downloads which are worksheets that they can actually have a physical copy of and they can get a get a pen out and actually you know write stuff down.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what I also did, which was an additional investment, but I think that it's an important part and quite and quite special, is that when they sign up, they get a box.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do have one down here, but I haven't got it now.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it's a box about this big which contains a folder for them to put all their downloads in.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It contains a little box of coloured pencils, because I I do quite a lot of visual psych psychology work with with them.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: It contains a nice notebook and pen.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, it has a little special thing that I won't give away.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh yes, and then it also has specially designed an A3 printout of the map of the journey of the program, and little places where they can write little wins that they've had each month, little challenges, obstacles that are still persisting, and also any questions that they might have for me.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they can do that each month so they can see how they're doing, and then what that does is that then feeds into the one thing that my particular program takes for me in terms of time moving forward, is that I have a once-a-month community call with everybody online, and at the moment I'm hosting that on um Zoom and via a private uh Facebook page, but I'm looking at a different platform where I can actually have everything rather more self-contained because not everyone that's on my program at the moment does Facebook, and so that means that I'm missing some of that community conversation, which which I think is quite an important element to what to what I'm offering, and so as part of this idea to to actually create a program that touched lots of different learning styles, but also gave somebody something that they might be getting from somewhere else that was that was my competition.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I sort of thought, well, how can I create something that means that they're not missing that particular element?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and that's the monthly online call.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I have half a dozen, sometimes I have much, much more than that.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: That I think is also an added element to my my program that makes it attractive.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: The only downside of that is it does limit the number of people that I would have on my course at the moment, but of course, it's not to say that I can't upscale and do it differently, because I don't want 150 people on a Zoom at the same time if I'm if I'm trying to just give them a little bit of personal personal help.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that idea that they they enrol with you and they get sort of a nice little goody box and it per and is personalised.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds as though you've put so much thought and attention into what you've created, and I think that comes through.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um a couple of years ago, I ran a group programme.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't do it last year.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, I did do it last year.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: I did it early last year, and then I did it several times the year before, and that was one of the things that I did.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: I put together a little goodie box and then I sent them out.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've got like the course creators workbook, and you know, I could included that, and I I wanted it all pretty, and so that when they opened it, they had an experience.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because who doesn't who doesn't love getting a little package through the post that's all beautifully wrapped that they can unravel and see, you know, all of the goodies inside.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It just adds to the joy of what they're part of.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I just love anything that kind of gives those per that personal touch, because, like you say, you know, that could be the difference between your program and your competitors, and also I think it sets you up for being the person to go to, the one that really does care and that can be trusted, and that has you're championing your students to be successful, yes, and I think that that's what comes through when you're going that extra mile.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and then what I also do is when they get on to month four, so month month one is the kind of setup of where they are and trying to understand their eating behavior, and then month two they they they do a huge amount on understanding the benefit of different nutrition and they do a food diary, and then month three is all about emotions and your and your inner voices and the things that are driving you to behave in a certain way, but then month four is all about body image.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm gonna actually produce something tangible, so I actually have another little investment here, and I've actually created an A5 state stapled booklet, which is their body image workbook.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they have all the exercises, and they get that in the post halfway through with a little um green peppermint teabag and a little note from me.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you know, so so I hope that that then sort of re-energizes at that moment where maybe somebody might feel feeling a little bit of a mid-program dip, because my programme is a six-month programme, it's got six steps.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I actually thought, well, you know, I kind of worked out that particularly in this first first year, because this is the first year of this programme, I thought, right, well, I'm just gonna have a little bit of a play with the numbers, and as long as I was making enough in this first exploratory year, I was quite I was quite fine about that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've got a whole box of them, so you know, they actually didn't cost very much per booklet.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's actually worth it, as you say, for somebody to just get this thing through the post unexpected.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's you can't really put a price on that.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it actually comes back to, well, you can, but you know what I mean.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: It actually comes back to this, to this whole principle of saying, what's my intention for this program?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: My intention is that somebody at the end of the six months has completely turned around their relationship with food, understands themselves better, has a better quality of life, is more confident, is more happy and accepting in their in their body, is going out, you know, and doing things that they wouldn't have done at the beginning, be it swimming, be it whatever it might be, and that the experience has been really wonderful and positive for them, that's a tick.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the second tick is they're going to give you feedback that then everybody else is going to read.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, why wouldn't you invest and try and make that experience the best it it possibly can be?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's especially if it's a service industry, if it's a development thing like I'm doing, you don't want somebody to be dissatisfied.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's my stuff, car mechanics, you know, Excel training, doesn't matter what it is, you have to really focus on how you're gonna get somebody from A to B and what that middle bit has to look like in order for the majority of people, not the odd naysayer, let's just let them go out the back door, but the majority of people, what are they gonna need?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And how can I bring myself to it to make it a different experience versus going with Joe Blog's down the road?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, 100%.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I think for me, the the testimonials, the reviews, the feedback is actually the thing that's more important, and at the beginning, it outweighs, I think, the money earned.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's a bit of a bold statement, but testimonials, reviews that are that are favorable, that talk about you in a in a highly endorsing way is goes a lot goes further than the money that they pay.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can leverage that throughout your entire program.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: When you launch, when you relaunch, when you relaunch again, it becomes this currency that you can then draw upon in order to promote your program, which is going to lead to new students coming on board.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when people are thinking about creating an online course or a program, it's it's worth thinking about the experience that they deliver and how they can make it exceptional.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they get those fans, they get those people that are coming on board absolutely loving the thing that they're experiencing and wanting to then shout about it.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's where you can then start to be like, okay, if you love what you've experienced and it's worked for you and you've got the results, come on board as an affiliate, and then you can shout about it and get paid, and then that's what's going to equally help grow your program in the future as well, because you've got these ambassadors that have experienced it, but also they have motivation because they're going to benefit as well.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think what you're doing is absolutely spot on.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the first year of anything, it's a lot of trial and error.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have all the answers that you need until you put something out into the world and get that feedback and get people experiencing it.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, day one, you're not going to have that.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to give yourself time for the program to exist, live, breathe, grow before you start maybe drawing in those higher numbers.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I so I think, like you said, as long as you've got your numbers, and as long as you're not out of pocket and you're breaking even, or you know, you've got something in the pot that just ties you over.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay, I think, at the beginning, because you're building something that you can scale and build on.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that because with online courses and and and programs, there are so many different ways of doing it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just have to go with your gut feel.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a six-month programme, but I sort of I thought, now hang on, you know, because of the because of my target market, I thought there's a there's a chance that actually they're gonna need longer.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, although it's a six-month program, they actually have eight months to complete it.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually made a decision to then say, right, I'm gonna make it finite, and then I've I've actually had a couple of people say, What happens at the end of eight months because I'm really behind?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've actually created an additional purchase product service, which is actually interestingly called my pathway, which is a very small monthly fee, which enables any of my program members to have unlimited access to all the content.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: So they could go right back to the beginning, or they can play that really helpful video, or they can play any of my guest, my expert guests' videos again.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: They've just got access to all of it, also the community page and also the Zoom meetings for as long as they stay a member with this little trickle, you know, monthly, monthly bit.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I also incentivized, or I am in the process of to say if you bring someone on to the program at a full price, so not when I'm running a discount, but at the full price, you can be a pathway member for life for nothing.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So to sort of try and encourage to get a few more people on because I want this constant um influx, because mine is is evergreen, someone can join at any time.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's it's actually been quite quite helpful to have on the Zoom call someone who's only just started and someone who's on month three who's going, Oh, that thing that we did earlier in this month, that was really, really helpful because, and I'm thinking this is good, because this is really generating some excitement about what's to come, because my program is on a drip feed, so when you join, you get the introduction, and then you only get the next month as it as it comes.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and because some people pay monthly and some people pay in one in one go, but even the people that pay in one go, I didn't I didn't really want to give them access to everything because my program is set up in that order in a specific way.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean, some people listening might think, well, that's a bit controlling, but it I don't think they would get as much out of it if I gave them everything and they sort of thought, oh, I'm just gonna try that thing in month five without having done the work in month two.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to sort of think about think about that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: But so I think that there are always potential upselling, side-selling opportunities.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing to say on that is that anyone who's a Mindful Way program member can still have one-to-one with me, but I offer that at a discounted rate.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've tried to give them um advantages, you know, over and above just the course content to being a member.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So they get access to you, which means that you're more accessible to them, you know, as opposed to you being this evasive person that that's never around.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're actually involved in the program and available for them to you know to contact, which I think is a great idea.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: The the just just my thoughts on a drip-fed approach, I I think this works really well if you are developing a course where each module builds on each other.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you sort of say, you know, you really need to do step one before you do step two, and then you need to do step two before step three.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to give access to the full course, people are going to jump in and out of stuff, and they're going to try and skip ahead because they want to get it done, they want to get it out of the way, and they don't think they need a bit because they think they're okay in that bit, and and actually by forcing them to go through each step before they access the new content, I think can work really well.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are sort of options in platforms whereby um instead of drip feeding on a monthly basis or a timely basis, you can actually drip feed your content based on a completion.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: So they have to complete a certain percentage of that lesson before they get access to the next one to ensure that they have done the work.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so so there are many things out there I think that helps to support a student's journey as they're moving through that content.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I think absolutely a drip fed approach is really useful if you you're delivering something that builds, that builds like they have to do step one before step two, before step three, so on and so forth.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and I think also students appreciate that as well.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think so, and I think that they have to to some extent put their trust in you, don't they?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: That actually you you're the expert and and that you know the best way for them to be accessing the um content, really.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because you because at the end of the day, you have designed the program for a specific outcome, and so therefore, the way that you deliver that content is going to be very specific to them achieving that outcome.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so if if you feel a different fed approach approach, then that's what it needs to be.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like to kind of leave um the listeners with some tips.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody is currently thinking about creating an online course or a program, so we're talking about programs as well, with maybe a hybrid approach, so maybe it might be part automated, part live.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: What would be the three tips that you would offer them?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think the most important thing is to really think about the the process.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: So think about the journey from the from the user's perspective, and try and think about as many of the pitfalls or the difficulties that they might have.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: So a bit like that whole FAQ idea, what would the FAQs be and answer those with the material so that you're going going along with what might be in their in their mind?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think the second thing is that you have to include as many different content formats to answer learning styles.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means you've got to push yourself out of your comfort zone for something, then I think you just absolutely have to, even if it's just at the beginning or at the end.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because imagine how much more likely someone is going to give you feedback if you come on on a video and say, hello, thank you so much for buying my course.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really hope that it's been helpful.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: What would be really helpful for me would be if you could kindly say a few words about your experience of learning how to XYZ.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is think about bringing your personality.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't done anything on your personal branding, and there are lots of marketeers out there who will quite happily help you with that, think about what it is about you that you can bring to this learning experience, because it is much more than just learning how to do something.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's make it an experience, let's make it something that's more fulfilling and interesting or fun or exciting or unexpected than maybe they think it's going to be.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's going to be a lot about you.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are your real brand values?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what's what's what's what are those little extra different bits about your personality that you can bring and just just put put them out there?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's gonna like everybody.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can't please all the people all the time.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: All of those cliches, they all apply, so you might as well just get yourself out there because there'll be plenty sufficient people who will engage with you and will like your courses over somebody else's for that very reason.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: They are amazing tips.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing those.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm literally like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I really agree.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I love your tip about the F.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: FAQ.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's such a great thing to do.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you get a Google Doc or a Word doc and literally write down a handful of FAQs, what would people ask?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or go and ask your audience, you know, jump on Facebook, jump on LinkedIn, wherever your audience are going to be, and actually ask them questions what they would want to know.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then that would be a great way to not only write your your frequently asked questions, but also it give you really great insight in how to get started with knowing what your students are going to want.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I love those tips, they're really useful.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: And absolutely, I've got to agree with you a hundred percent.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about being authentic and injecting your own personality into what you do.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Are you able to share just very briefly for the listeners in terms of how you would perhaps go about launching and maybe marketing your program?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you have any specific strategies that you're currently using that you've found to be really successful?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so I I mention it quite a lot to my mailing list.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I have I have offers um now and again which I try and tie in with the with the seasons.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I first launched it, I did loads of Instagram reels and I talked about it in a very sort of chatty way.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: My actual marketing strategy was to look at all the kinds of issues that my program would help.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually created some posts both on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram around those particular challenges.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I offered a couple of bits of insight around the challenges, and then I then I would then promote the program as a way of addressing that particular issue, be it emotional eating, let's say, and a whole lot more.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did run some Facebook ads and I had some pretty good traction.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: The sales were disappointing, and I and I'm still sort of going through a process of looking at my Google analytics as to what the journey on the website was and whether there was, you know, whether there weren't enough calls to action on the website page.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but in terms of attracting um energy, it was basically a rhetorical question.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to be able to manage your weight without being on a diet?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, the reason for not having sales could be that quite a lot of those people don't want to do online, they know that they're not very good self-starters, could have been the price point, although I don't think so in the scheme of things.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: But what it did bring me was another sort of 50 or 60 followers to my page, and I think also what you have to understand is that people might not buy straight away, so they might visit your program information and they might file it away, either they haven't got the budget or it's not quite the right time.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean they won't come back.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think any kind of engagement is bad engagement, you know, even if they don't buy at the time.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Facebook ads were quite good.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: I actually also because my program is is possibly slightly seasonal, so somebody going on now, they might buy it now.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of thinking as I get towards Christmas, it's unlikely somebody would buy my program probably in October, November, to actually start it then.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm already planning my marketing for quarter four with a January offer.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: So for people to buy it in those those two months leading up to, and then to have another big kind of big cohort starting in January, because seasonally that's when people are thinking about doing my kind of thing.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of my my a lot of my marketing is about me thinking, what do I think perhaps the mindset is of my target market?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm looking at 30-something with young children, the kids are about to break up for school, they're not gonna be thinking about getting it getting stuck into an online program when they've got children running around for the next six weeks.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not gonna happen.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it depends what it is that you're selling, but for me, that's what I have to try to do so that that marketing strategy is not is not energy perhaps wasted at that time when those seeds are gonna fall on ground and they're just not gonna germinate.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with Facebook ads, it's a different beast.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about building awareness and building bringing people into the top of your funnel.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: So giving them maybe something that is either a low price offer, high value but low price, or you're giving them something to sign up to, so you're building your email list.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: But what I love about what you've just explained is your intention, and you seem to have a really good handle as to your ideal student and when this is going to be ideal for them.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And like you say, maybe it is the seasonal thing, but because you can sort of tap into that, you know that there are parts of the year that you can maybe run something to bring them on board.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: And because that again, that's something I get asked a lot is how do I get my course out into the world and how do I make sales and how do I, you know, build up my my student base and all of this, and and that and the answer is strategy, you know, it's all about strategy, it's all about understanding your audience, their needs, what you're offering, all of this, and then putting a plan in place and creating a strategy.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think that that increasingly there is a need to actually show up.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a need to do the whole social media thing, and I know people don't like it, but it goes back to that point of difference, doesn't it?
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: That that actually I find, I mean certainly for my one-to-one clients, and I'm and I think it it it will be the case for the for the course as as well, is that people say, Oh, I've been following you on Instagram for about a year.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's how long it takes for them to be seeing posts, for you saying talking about your course, sharing the feedback, banging on about it, and you think, oh, really, am I going to go and talk about it again and again and again?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not that every post should be a sales post.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important that you offer some little nuggets and tips, and because they have to, your your your potential student has to trust that you really are an expert.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do you do that?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: By building up credibility, by putting your face out there, putting your words out there, putting your expertise out there, so that then when you say, Oh, and by the way, did you know?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they go, Oh, yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, why would they?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why would they take a punt and spend 100, 200, 300 pounds?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a lot of money to commit to somebody that they don't feel they know.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about consistency and building that know, like and trust and and and repeating the messaging as well.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: And people need to hear things many, many times over in order for it to really land.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and as you touched upon before, not everybody is ready to buy at that moment that they come into contact with you.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then even if they bank it in their minds to say, Oh, I really like this person, at the right time, I'm gonna I'm going to check out this program.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: We both know life gets in the way, things get forgotten, priorities change, and then that's why you've got to keep showing up so that when they are in that place where they're ready to press the go because they're ready to take that next step, you want to still be that person that is at the forefront of their mind.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there are no quick fixes.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: The only way to do this is by showing up, by being consistent, by being committed, and and think and connecting to the long game.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: What are you wanting to do?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: What are you wanting to achieve?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: What is this for?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference it's going to make in your life?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then commit to yourself and to your future students in showing up.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the way you do it, which is obviously what you're doing really well.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and thank you for sharing because you you have shared so many golden nuggets today that I really hope that my listeners have enjoyed, and that you've gained you you've just shared all of this amazing value.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for that.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've we've talked a lot and we've covered a huge amount.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm going to put Laurie's details of her of her program in the show notes.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: So for anybody that is interested in what Laurie is offering.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: But Laurie, thank you so much for coming on board today, sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, and talking about your programme.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: It has been so much value.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's my absolute pleasure.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've really, really enjoyed it.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you, Karen.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for taking the time to listen to today's episode.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you found this episode of value.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, please feel free to share it with others who you may think will also benefit from listening to today's episode.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're feeling inspired and would like to know more about getting started with creating an online digital course, then why not download my free ebook, 10 Steps to Digital Course Success, by visiting my website www.pink-lemondigital.com.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: I will be back next week with another episode, but until then, have a great week.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the digital she does it show.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to check out the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned in today's episode.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: New episodes drop every week on a Wednesday.
• 54:08
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• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for tuning in today, and I will see you next time.