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EP244: ABC Home Team Podcast Panel with Arpa, Banks, and Cooper · The Sovereign Man Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Does every man have men around him that he can rely on, that he can trust?
0:06
Speaker 1: The men are going to tell you the ugly truth.
0:08
Speaker 2: The whole iron sharpens iron concept.
0:11
Speaker 2: It's a place where a man can be of service to one another.
0:15
Speaker 2: That's distinctly different than support.
0:18
Speaker 3: Once the concept is introduced to them, something in them wakes up.
0:22
Speaker 4: You're a man living in the modern world
0:25
Speaker 4: in a time when men and manhood are not what they once were.
0:30
Speaker 4: You live life on your own terms.
0:33
Speaker 4: You're self-sufficient.
0:34
Speaker 4: You think for yourself, and you march to the beat of your own drum.
0:38
Speaker 4: When life knocks you down, you get back up,
0:41
Speaker 4: because in your gut, you know that's what men do.
0:44
Speaker 4: You're a badass and a warrior, and on the days when you forget,
0:48
Speaker 4: we are here to remind you who you really are.
0:53
Speaker 3: Welcome to Sovereign Man Podcast, where we aim to make men masculine again.
0:57
Speaker 3: I'm your man, Nicky Ballou, and we're doing something a little different today.
1:00
Speaker 3: We've got a podcaster panel here featuring some fucking great men.
1:06
Speaker 3: ARPA, Banks, and Cooper.
1:09
Speaker 3: A, B, C.
1:10
Speaker 5: Welcome men.
1:13
Speaker 5: You know, I never realized it was A, B, C like that, you know?
1:18
Speaker 1: You're the master podcaster.
1:19
Speaker 1: He figures all this out.
1:21
Speaker 3: the heavy hitters of flubbering man right so men um we're gonna have a conversation today really
1:29
Speaker 3: but what we want to talk about today is what's the fucking men's group why should a men's group
1:36
Speaker 3: exist why should a man be part of a men's group and how can you ensure if you're running the men's
1:43
Speaker 3: group that men's group is delivering the goods for the men that are members of it so in no particular
1:49
Speaker 3: order, you know, why don't you start chiming in on this? And why don't we start with Cooper,
1:57
Speaker 5: the CEO of ABC? Let's go one question at a time, though. What was the first one?
2:01
Speaker 5: All right. What's a fucking men's group, Coop? What's a men's group?
2:04
Speaker 1: So I always like to tell the story of how I met Blue. It was that Raymond Ayer was my publisher,
2:10
Speaker 1: and I launched my book, and he comes up to me, congratulations on the book, and then he says,
2:15
Speaker 1: do you have men in your life, Cooper? And I says, not really. He says, would you like to get some?
2:20
Speaker 1: I says, yes. He says, OK, here's the date and time of our next meeting. Come. That was six and a half
2:26
Speaker 1: years ago. And that to me is the epitome of it. Does any man or does every man have men around him
2:35
Speaker 1: that he can rely on, that he can trust, that when he has issues in his life, that he can talk to them
2:41
Speaker 1: in a confidential way to get suggestions, help, support, whatever it is he needs.
2:47
Speaker 1: And I can say that I certainly, I wish I had been in a men's group far beyond when I joined as I did.
2:54
Speaker 3: So far sooner. You mean you wish you had joined?
2:56
Speaker 3: Far sooner, yes. Far sooner. Far earlier in my life.
3:00
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. That's a good, succinct definition of what it is.
3:08
Speaker 5: Can I add to that? Can I add to that?
3:10
Speaker 3: By all means.
3:11
Speaker 5: so i i think i think the part that that uh cooper has met has met uh left out is you know in a men's
3:19
Speaker 5: group we're not there to fluff each other's nuts uh you know empathy is one thing but it can be
3:26
Speaker 5: you know in in today's world it can be done to detriment right so in a men's group the men are
3:32
Speaker 5: going to tell you the ugly truth right we're talking the the whole iron sharpens iron concept
3:38
Speaker 5: and sometimes you know a man needs to tell even be told you know what's the lie he's telling
3:44
Speaker 5: himself so he can see what the truth is and then make an educated decision and be put into action
3:50
Speaker 5: rather than just shit talk you know into a future that's better for him and family you know what i'm
3:55
Speaker 5: saying banks is shaking his head banks i i know you kind of concur what am i missing well i mean
4:02
Speaker 2: from the what perspective uh to me i've always looked at it as a place where men can be of
4:08
Speaker 2: to one another and that's distinctly different than support we all we all know that one but that's
4:15
Speaker 2: not what men need you know they can stand on their own fucking two fear they ought to learn how to by
4:20
Speaker 2: being in relationship with other men so it's not about support at all let's remove that it's not a
4:26
Speaker 2: support group it is a place where a man can get help if he asks for the help that he needs that's
4:31
Speaker 2: him taking some ownership over what needs,
4:34
Speaker 2: where he does need assistance.
4:37
Speaker 2: But more so at a higher level where I see it always serving for a man is
4:42
Speaker 2: actually providing him a place to be of service again.
4:46
Speaker 2: Because to me,
4:46
Speaker 2: it's bringing men back to the level of looking beyond their own basic needs,
4:52
Speaker 2: getting, you know,
4:54
Speaker 2: emotional or mental support and actually standing in a group dynamic again,
5:00
Speaker 2: a social culture.
5:01
Speaker 2: A place that brings men into uniformity, some sort of a place where they're allowed to actually explore who they can be and what they can affect in the world.
5:12
Speaker 2: And that is very different layers.
5:14
Speaker 2: It's not support.
5:15
Speaker 2: It's not help.
5:17
Speaker 2: It is stepping into another level of being of service.
5:20
Speaker 2: And that means to me, it's not about telling a man what I want to hear or expecting to be told what I want to hear.
5:27
Speaker 2: It's getting down to the truth.
5:29
Speaker 2: That's where service lies to me.
5:30
Speaker 2: I've been given a lot of support in my life personally.
5:33
Speaker 2: That was a lot of fluff.
5:35
Speaker 2: Fluff.
5:36
Speaker 2: It was people who bought my excuses.
5:41
Speaker 2: They did not challenge me.
5:43
Speaker 3: It's very interesting because a lot of men hear about groups
5:51
Speaker 3: and they get excited because I think it's a missing.
5:55
Speaker 3: I think most men don't even realize
5:57
Speaker 3: that they've been craving masculine-only spaces.
6:00
Speaker 3: You remember Dr. Robert Glover when he came
6:03
Speaker 3: and he spoke to us a couple years back?
6:06
Speaker 3: He said to us, men have been craving masculine-only spaces
6:10
Speaker 3: and they didn't even know it, right?
6:12
Speaker 3: Well, how would they know it if they were exposed to it, right?
6:15
Speaker 3: So they didn't even know it.
6:17
Speaker 3: But once the concept is introduced to them,
6:20
Speaker 3: something in them wakes up.
6:22
Speaker 3: The problem is that men have become so feminized
6:26
Speaker 3: that they don't understand what a masculine-only space is supposed to be like.
6:30
Speaker 3: They think that it ought to be a little bit like that feminized world that they're already a part of.
6:37
Speaker 3: And that feminized world is all about, as you said, ARPA, so elegantly fluffing your nuts, right?
6:44
Speaker 3: And it's all about, as Banks, you said, help, support.
6:50
Speaker 3: You know, there was a man who was part of the men's work that we all grew up in.
6:57
Speaker 3: His name was Van Maris, the Van Man, we called him.
7:01
Speaker 3: And he used to say, support is for tits, not for men.
7:08
Speaker 3: And I just thought that was absolutely brilliant and true.
7:12
Speaker 3: I think a reason to be a part of a men's group is to constantly and consistently be challenged
7:19
Speaker 3: on the personal standards you're maintaining in your life.
7:22
Speaker 3: Are your standards elevating you
7:24
Speaker 3: or are they having you sink back?
7:26
Speaker 3: What are your men's thoughts on that?
7:27
Speaker 1: I would have potentially said it more around goals,
7:31
Speaker 1: keeping goals in the forefront and achieving them.
7:34
Speaker 1: And the men pushing you to not believe your own bullshit
7:38
Speaker 1: and where you are falling down
7:41
Speaker 1: or operating a five or six instead of a 10,
7:44
Speaker 1: the men are going to call you on it,
7:46
Speaker 1: which helps elevate your game.
7:48
Speaker 3: You see, it's interesting that you say
7:49
Speaker 3: And I think goals are important, but goal achievement, I think is a function of consistent effort and consistent effort is a function of how high your standards are.
8:01
Speaker 3: Cause there's a bunch of men who have lofty goals and yet they don't seem to achieve them.
8:07
Speaker 3: There's a man that's in our community and he's a nice guy and he has these lofty goals of entrepreneurial success for himself.
8:20
Speaker 3: And yet his effort is minimal.
8:23
Speaker 3: He's come and he's revealed to all of us what his effort has been.
8:27
Speaker 3: He's made big commitments and not followed through on them.
8:31
Speaker 3: And the reason is because he doesn't have a standard that I'll do what I say.
8:35
Speaker 3: That's not a standard for him.
8:37
Speaker 3: My minimum acceptable standard of behavior is if I say X, I'll do X.
8:43
Speaker 3: And I think that's why he's not achieving his goals.
8:45
Speaker 3: And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that, Coop.
8:49
Speaker 1: I would agree.
8:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you can set goals from now to the doomsday,
8:53
Speaker 1: but if you're not operating at a high enough level,
8:56
Speaker 1: then you're not going to achieve them.
8:57
Speaker 1: Then you're just blowing hot air.
8:59
Speaker 1: So yeah, a man needs to have standards that are sufficient to achieve those goals.
9:05
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't, then he's not going to achieve them.
9:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think part of the problem with the whole goal setting thing is the eagle trap, right?
9:11
Speaker 5: So the eagle is going to say, oh, you know, I got these great fucking big goals.
9:15
Speaker 5: But then his, you know, an eagle will self-protect itself by lowering standards and making the excuses so it doesn't get hurt.
9:23
Speaker 5: You know, so it's that double-edged sword, the iron sharpening iron part, right?
9:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the results are a direct reflection to a man in his standards.
9:36
Speaker 5: Because any man that achieves large results has some fucking crazy standards.
9:47
Speaker 1: But isn't he a bit of chicken and egg?
9:50
Speaker 1: He's not going to get the goals unless he has high standards.
9:53
Speaker 1: But he's probably not going to set high standards if he doesn't set some goals for himself.
9:57
Speaker 5: That's not true at all.
9:59
Speaker 5: Men bullshit themselves all the time.
10:01
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm going to go out there and make a million dollars this year and never achieve it, right?
10:05
Speaker 5: And quite frankly, if you look at a lot of the training, they always say to set these extremely high goals, right?
10:12
Speaker 5: It's always, you know, aim for the stars and hope for the moon kind of thing, right?
10:16
Speaker 5: Because they know, like, men are just not, they're not going to perform unless they actually do step up to the, you know, and do elevate their standards and then they hit that home run, right?
10:24
Speaker 5: But most men, you know, aim for the stars and hope for the moon.
10:27
Speaker 5: That's what they're doing.
10:29
Speaker 5: And that's all ego talk.
10:30
Speaker 5: That's ego driven.
10:32
Speaker 5: You know, that's not really standards driven.
10:34
Speaker 5: If men had elevated standards, you know, you aim for the moon, you hit the moon.
10:39
Speaker 5: That's a high standard.
10:42
Speaker 2: I think there's a, you know, like the what part of being a part of a men's group in whatever capacity it operates in.
10:49
Speaker 2: It's a primary vehicle for, I'll speak first, for me to elevate my character.
10:54
Speaker 2: Right.
10:54
Speaker 2: First form of my own individual character, discover, you know, gaps and deficiencies, whatever it might be, my own bullshit.
11:03
Speaker 2: So it's about molding character.
11:04
Speaker 2: He said iron sharpening iron.
11:06
Speaker 2: I can only do that in a way where I'm around men, at least in how I need to show up in the world, because the world demands more of a man.
11:16
Speaker 2: It demands more of a man and it demands character development.
11:18
Speaker 2: I think that got lost when most of men's arenas were, for lack of better terms, became an open
11:25
Speaker 5: door to anybody and everybody. And that sort of fell apart. And I think men's characters
11:31
Speaker 2: slowly started getting softer. They became lower. Their impact on the world around them,
11:37
Speaker 2: whether it's families or whatnot, started to change. They were not showing up like men any.
11:43
Speaker 2: The why of it all is that, you know, as a being with character, I got to fit into the world around
11:48
Speaker 2: There's an influence in social culture that I play, whether it's with other men, within my family units, within my professional career, or how I am actually playing a part in my city, my neighborhood.
12:03
Speaker 2: That's a huge part.
12:05
Speaker 2: I want my neighbors to look at me as the man on the street, where if my kids are in trouble, go talk to that man.
12:10
Speaker 2: You don't know him very well, but he seems like a good man.
12:13
Speaker 2: Go to see him.
12:14
Speaker 2: If you're in trouble, you can count on him.
12:16
Speaker 2: And that part, I think the major benefit of why a man's circle is a necessity or an environment that is masculine is simply to help the character development of a man.
12:28
Speaker 2: Such that he can start to fit into the world around him when he is off on his own in a more productive fashion.
12:35
Speaker 2: For me, you know, like I remember, you know, having a daughter and then all of a sudden looking at who I was and then how I was, you know, how I was fitting into the world.
12:44
Speaker 2: And that shaped and shifted and changed my own self-image.
12:50
Speaker 2: And I started looking at my character.
12:52
Speaker 2: And it was very difficult to find a place to develop that character
12:56
Speaker 2: in a way where I could show up as a proper husband, father, brother, son.
13:02
Speaker 2: So that's what it's done for me is help with character development.
13:05
Speaker 5: That's an interesting point, character development.
13:07
Speaker 5: And it's funny how increasingly it seems like women think that they can develop a man's character in their sons, which is so far from the truth.
13:23
Speaker 5: I don't know where this lie perpetuated from and when it started, but this movement of separating boys from fathers has been around for quite a long time.
13:33
Speaker 5: And it's getting, well, I don't know if it's still getting worse.
13:36
Speaker 5: we may have plateaued that part of the bell curve and i think the pendulum's swinging the other way
13:41
Speaker 5: but you know how many how many men are out there that just didn't grow up with with fathers but i
13:46
Speaker 5: mean like masculine fathers right a man that knows how to be a man uh for the sake of showing his son
13:53
Speaker 5: how to be a man uh how to teach his man how to enter the world like that it's kind of gone well
13:59
Speaker 5: 50% divorce rate, right?
14:02
Speaker 1: Number one.
14:04
Speaker 1: And of the 50% men who are still having a family,
14:07
Speaker 1: how many of them are masculine men?
14:10
Speaker 1: I know we all like to go back to the 60s and 70s
14:12
Speaker 1: when men were masculine.
14:14
Speaker 1: And 50 years later, the society is very different.
14:18
Speaker 5: Very, very different.
14:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's not even that.
14:19
Speaker 5: It's even the education system, right?
14:21
Speaker 5: Since the Second World War,
14:23
Speaker 5: we've been funneling kids out of being,
14:25
Speaker 5: you know, getting that direct learning from a mentor into these halls of schools where,
14:34
Speaker 5: you know, I think now mainstream education is starting to realize, like,
14:37
Speaker 5: this is not the way to educate boys.
14:41
Speaker 5: And you can see that from the graduates and who's graduating.
14:45
Speaker 5: It's all women or mostly women now, as opposed to what it was, right?
14:51
Speaker 5: That mentorship isn't there anymore.
14:53
Speaker 5: And the whole market's starting to reflect it.
14:55
Speaker 5: I don't know if you've noticed, but in Canada, our GDP is 63% funded by our government, which is a very feminine type organization.
15:06
Speaker 5: Like this is not the way that men used to run things.
15:10
Speaker 5: It is the way we are now.
15:12
Speaker 3: Well, let's come back to how we're having the conversation about this particular episode, which isn't to go on a rant about what's being done in society and government and so forth.
15:26
Speaker 3: we're talking about a men's group we're talking about why a men's group we're talking about
15:30
Speaker 3: what is it that is in it for a man to be part of a men's group and what has a men's group succeeds
15:35
Speaker 2: so talk about that well i'll say a little bit more about that because like i had i mean i i product
15:41
Speaker 2: of a divorced family no problem i had great role models as a result i had a masculine father and i
15:46
Speaker 2: have a masculine stepfather however they gave me good role model examples to live into but
15:53
Speaker 2: They had to accept me. We're family. So it really didn't help me develop my masculine character. It gave me a role model to move towards, an example. It really, the being a part of a group of men in some form or shape allowed me to find a belonging amongst men, which they didn't have to accept. They don't have to accept at all.
16:17
Speaker 2: They're not my father. They're not my buddies in a lot of cases. They're not even my friends in a lot of cases. But the acceptance of being inside of a group of men and finding that really did a lot for the development of my character.
16:32
Speaker 2: And as a result of building those relationships, I go out into the world or I'll call them bonds, relationships, bonds with those men.
16:41
Speaker 2: I'll go out into the world and it feels like I have all these people behind me that nobody else can see.
16:49
Speaker 2: Nobody else can see. But to me, they're there all the time.
16:53
Speaker 2: Whether I'm facing a difficult circumstances, a challenging moment or a confrontation.
16:58
Speaker 2: I sort of have that invisible army at my back of men that have accepted me.
17:04
Speaker 2: And I also have access to wisdom, knowledge as a result of it.
17:08
Speaker 3: See, that's what I'm looking to hear.
17:11
Speaker 3: Because men today, they're living in an environment where they're being crapped on for being a man.
17:17
Speaker 3: They're also living in an environment where distraction is huge with technology, cell phones, social media, text messaging, you name it, right?
17:27
Speaker 3: So for them to be able to break away from all that, they really need to see something that's given them a tangible benefit, right?
17:36
Speaker 3: And what you just talked about, Banks, that's a tangible benefit.
17:40
Speaker 3: Developing your character as a man, I think, is job one.
17:44
Speaker 3: How do I become a better man?
17:45
Speaker 3: How do I become the kind of man that I'm proud of, that I don't beat myself up in my private thoughts?
17:54
Speaker 3: Because that's what most men are doing today.
17:56
Speaker 3: They put on this fucking mask out in the world.
17:58
Speaker 3: Like, I'm great.
17:59
Speaker 3: Everything's great.
17:59
Speaker 3: Look at me on social media.
18:01
Speaker 3: I'm amazing.
18:01
Speaker 3: I'm doing all this great stuff.
18:02
Speaker 3: I make a gazillion dollars.
18:04
Speaker 3: And inside, they're fucking hollow.
18:07
Speaker 3: You know?
18:08
Speaker 3: They're fucking hollow.
18:09
Speaker 3: Remember that movie back in the 90s, Hollow Man, with Kevin Bacon?
18:14
Speaker 3: These dudes are fucking hollow, man.
18:17
Speaker 5: Right?
18:17
Speaker 5: Yeah.
18:18
Speaker 5: And the best part is, is each one of them has that whole hollow presence.
18:23
Speaker 5: So they buy the other man's hollow presence.
18:25
Speaker 2: Or go on and adopt somebody else's false persona as an example of what they ought to be.
18:34
Speaker 2: I realize that being accepted for who I am along the way has grown me into a confident individual no matter where I am.
18:43
Speaker 2: And it comes back to, you said hollow, right?
18:46
Speaker 2: So I hear lack of substance when I hear that.
18:50
Speaker 2: A man who develops character amongst men and has some status.
18:53
Speaker 2: He's got access to resources, knowledge base.
18:56
Speaker 2: I would rather rely on a man than an AI system any day of the week.
19:00
Speaker 3: Dude, we're the anti-AI in a way.
19:03
Speaker 3: Like AI is fucking great.
19:04
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong.
19:06
Speaker 3: But remember in our community, we were telling men to create their CPRs or their context purpose results for the tour.
19:13
Speaker 3: And then ARPA created a tool for men to do it.
19:15
Speaker 3: And they fucking outsourced everything to that goddamn tool.
19:18
Speaker 3: And that's not the purpose because that's not a real CPR.
19:21
Speaker 3: oh, that's just some bullshit, highfalutin, good-sounding thing.
19:24
Speaker 3: Right?
19:25
Speaker 3: Cooper, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
19:27
Speaker 1: Well, what I was going to say is around this whole issue of character,
19:30
Speaker 1: around mentors.
19:32
Speaker 1: I look at my buddy group, and it's got, by design,
19:38
Speaker 1: the different levels of demographic in terms of age.
19:41
Speaker 1: By design, given that you're the designer, Coop.
19:47
Speaker 1: And I just see so much of how the younger men,
19:51
Speaker 1: are gaining the benefit from the older men in terms of what I always like to refer to as life experience.
19:59
Speaker 1: And life experience is the best teacher.
20:01
Speaker 1: And so, you know, in my work as a leader of a CFO group, we talk about peer experience.
20:07
Speaker 1: We don't like to give advice.
20:09
Speaker 1: And I see the same thing in the men's work.
20:11
Speaker 1: And so the men learn the best when another man can say, well, I've been there and here's how I handle it, good or bad.
20:17
Speaker 1: And I think that's where they learn the most. And as well as to Arpa's point about this whole mentoring process being lost, at least I think we are doing it by design or otherwise of younger men who we are is encouraging.
20:31
Speaker 1: You know, I wish I was a 25 year old man knowing about men's groups and joining one at that stage of my life rather than waiting until I did in my 60s.
20:41
Speaker 1: So, you know, I think that's the biggest benefit that we bring.
20:44
Speaker 1: And as we go up in age, different men may have missed it.
20:48
Speaker 1: If a man is 40, but he didn't just join until he's 40, he missed, so to speak, that 25 to
20:53
Speaker 1: 40 mentoring period.
20:54
Speaker 1: So fine, now he gets it.
20:56
Speaker 1: And hopefully he can somewhat catch up to where his age is versus, you know, what he
21:00
Speaker 1: should have learned when he was a 25-year-old man.
21:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of truth to what you're saying.
21:05
Speaker 3: And I want to just come back to this point about a men's group in a sense being the anti-AI,
21:12
Speaker 3: because I think really I'm hearing from too many people that they want to just fucking
21:17
Speaker 3: give everything over to AI, including the ability to reason and think for themselves.
21:23
Speaker 3: And I think that's a huge problem.
21:25
Speaker 3: I know, Arpa, in your business, you're using a lot of AI, and I know that you're very keen
21:29
Speaker 3: on AI and high on AI.
21:30
Speaker 3: I use a fair amount of AI on my book.
21:33
Speaker 3: So I...
21:33
Speaker 3: Well, let me finish.
21:34
Speaker 3: I think...
21:34
Speaker 3: Let me finish.
21:35
Speaker 3: Go ahead.
21:36
Speaker 3: but I don't think AI is advanced enough right now to take over from humanity basic functions like
21:45
Speaker 3: relating to others like thinking for yourself like deductive reasoning and I think people that try to
21:52
Speaker 2: make it a replacement for those skills are fucked well I think it's a symptom I think you know that
21:59
Speaker 2: technological advancement is a symptom of people who have lost touch with being able to rely on each
22:03
Speaker 2: other specifically when men are not able to count on each other because and that's where i think the
22:09
Speaker 2: purpose behind uh you know not just reason what it does for a man but the purpose behind it is to
22:15
Speaker 2: create some social well-being by having strong masculine presence in the right places i've seen
22:20
Speaker 2: men build the world and maintain that structure and if they're not doing it they can't count on
22:27
Speaker 2: one another or they don't they lack the capacity to know how to do it in terms of their own behavior
22:32
Speaker 2: or in the trust factor that they have with other men,
22:35
Speaker 2: those things quickly get eroded.
22:38
Speaker 2: They were foundations of our civilizations
22:40
Speaker 2: and the rise of every bit of progress that we've ever had.
22:43
Speaker 2: Every bit of progress that we've had has been founded
22:45
Speaker 2: off the bonds that men have created over generations.
22:49
Speaker 2: And the benefits have permeated everything,
22:52
Speaker 2: which has been fundamentally great for the advancement
22:56
Speaker 2: of society in many different ways.
22:59
Speaker 2: unfortunately if we allow relationship or the interaction between people to die and separate it
23:07
Speaker 2: is going to harm us so the purpose uh behind being a part of these is being able to fit into the world
23:13
Speaker 3: in a way and do the job that i'm built to do so i gotta say there's a lot of there's a lot of truth
23:19
Speaker 5: to what you're saying but go ahead i'll add in here so the the bond between men like masculine
23:27
Speaker 5: men the thing about men is action right so ai will not replace that uh never it's it's it's not going
23:36
Speaker 5: to build roles it's not going to discover you know some something new technology or whatever the hell
23:43
Speaker 5: it is uh and it's not it's not going to do that what it does do and then and i find that it does
23:49
Speaker 5: it very well is it replaces the administration staff which is mostly uh run by women um
23:57
Speaker 5: It's a research, it's a research aid. It is a fantastic research aid. And I use it for everything. I'm using it, shit man, just before this call, I was researching how to up my marketing game online. And it's giving me so much, you know, quick feedback, something that I would have relied on my administrator for, who I have replaced with AI. And I don't regret doing it at all. It's faster, it's more reliable. You know what I mean?
24:27
Speaker 5: Like, those are the positions that are in the biggest jeopardy.
24:33
Speaker 5: And it's funny, I was reading an article about how the feminization of our government has led, and the schooling system has led to all these hyper-feminine positions in the workplace.
24:47
Speaker 5: And yet those are the ones that are going to be facing replacement by AI first.
24:52
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
24:52
Speaker 5: like who's going to need a well shit I replaced my administrator AI answers my phone uh sets
25:00
Speaker 5: meetings emails all that and and as the days go by it gets more more uh more intertwined so like
25:10
Speaker 5: that that's and that's in my business that's me what I'm doing personally I don't know what some
25:13
Speaker 5: of these other larger companies are doing um you know I've read I've read one one company had killed
25:20
Speaker 5: like 2,600 jobs in replacement of AI.
25:23
Speaker 5: So that's the stuff that's going.
25:25
Speaker 5: Amazon killed 45,000 jobs.
25:27
Speaker 3: 45.
25:28
Speaker 3: And it fucking ran into a buzzsaw
25:31
Speaker 3: because the AI took down the entire Amazon site
25:35
Speaker 3: for 48 hours.
25:37
Speaker 3: It wasn't up.
25:38
Speaker 3: One publisher I know has 300 authors on Amazon
25:42
Speaker 3: through their self-publishing arm.
25:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:45
Speaker 3: The entire catalog got taken down by the AI.
25:48
Speaker 3: I had AI take down all my Amazon accounts because it looked at me as a fraudster.
25:53
Speaker 3: They're making a lot of mistakes.
25:55
Speaker 3: So what I'm saying is that I think there's people that are rushing to AI without properly
26:01
Speaker 3: thinking and working it through.
26:03
Speaker 3: And then there's folks like you're a very methodical man.
26:06
Speaker 3: Whatever you do, you try it out.
26:07
Speaker 3: But inside our community, that AI tool you created was a neat tool, but I also don't
26:16
Speaker 3: like that the men used it.
26:17
Speaker 3: I think what that tool should have been made available to a man once he'd
26:21
Speaker 3: submitted his CPR as a way to kind of, you know,
26:26
Speaker 3: evaluate it, not as a fucking tool that would then,
26:29
Speaker 3: cause that's how they used it to fucking create their goddamn CPR. Right.
26:32
Speaker 2: I mean, on the topic of the year, I think I, I,
26:36
Speaker 2: I mess around with it with some specific business cases. Um,
26:39
Speaker 2: I will say this though,
26:41
Speaker 2: it's inclined to buy any piece of bullshit I put into it and sell it back to
26:46
Speaker 2: me and make me feel really good about it. One thing that, you know, and that doesn't matter
26:51
Speaker 2: if I was to, I would imagine would do the exact same thing if I was talking to it in a personal
26:56
Speaker 2: context. When I'm talking to a man, one who's been given the opportunity to see me and be around me,
27:03
Speaker 2: that man don't put up no bullshit. He will push back hard on me. I've instructed tools to do that.
27:10
Speaker 2: they do not sufficiently they do not have the ability to stare at me look at all the little
27:16
Speaker 2: things that go on when they're uh when we're standing there face to face next to one another
27:21
Speaker 2: they can men can see me and they pick up on small details whether it's an inflection in tone
27:29
Speaker 2: a slight uh body movement or hapik and a man can catch that so men are very very good because men
27:37
Speaker 2: don't like to be lied to no they don't uh so when it comes to being around men i will trust the
27:44
Speaker 2: input when it comes to the personal development that i need to do on myself to grow my character
27:49
Speaker 2: to change my behavior to raise my standards to actually get somewhere in life over any piece of
27:56
Speaker 2: technology there's just something that that that i believe a human being and particularly a man can
28:02
Speaker 2: do is sense something he knows he's been trained for eons to do it and to pass up that or to
28:10
Speaker 5: not take advantage of it i find is a big loss yeah i agree the ai cannot cannot sniff out bullshit
28:20
Speaker 5: um and i i don't know who was it again that said the like 80 or 90 percent of communication is
28:26
Speaker 5: non-verbal right like how did ai won't pick up on that yeah sorry above 90 the opposite it's not
28:34
Speaker 1: the words it's the emotions yeah so that's exactly what ai won't pick up on it unless you're um you
28:40
Speaker 1: know particularly if you're just doing texting with it yeah unless of course you want to get into
28:45
Speaker 2: hyper facial body recognition software but you know what i'm sorry i'm a man who also values
28:50
Speaker 2: privacy both my own and a respect for another individuals so i it's not an application that
28:56
Speaker 2: should ever come into the mix of social well-being i mean how many times have we seen even prior to
29:04
Speaker 2: our day our technology replacing real human interaction it creates more hostility than it
29:10
Speaker 3: does connection you know i think someone should create maybe i'll fucking take it on an ai code
29:17
Speaker 3: of conduct and a code of ethics because AI, as ARPA has demonstrated, can be a fucking awesome
29:26
Speaker 3: tool inside business, but it can be misused and it can be used in a way to cripple a man's ability
29:33
Speaker 3: to function and think and solve problems. And what we want it to be is something that is an adjunct
29:42
Speaker 3: that helps supersize our problem-solving abilities,
29:47
Speaker 3: not something that causes them to atrophy.
29:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, 100%.
29:51
Speaker 2: I'd rather work with the tool
29:54
Speaker 2: when it's helping me get more intelligent
29:56
Speaker 2: than trying to take away my intelligence
29:58
Speaker 2: than hear the name of that in that sense.
30:00
Speaker 2: And this is where I don't want to spend too much time on AI,
30:03
Speaker 2: but when it comes to dealing with men,
30:05
Speaker 2: I know I'm dealing with not artificial.
30:07
Speaker 2: Dealing with actual.
30:09
Speaker 2: Actual men.
30:10
Speaker 2: You know, actual intelligence, you know?
30:13
Speaker 2: There's a capacity, and intelligence is beyond just logic and reason,
30:16
Speaker 2: which are very masculine functions.
30:18
Speaker 2: There is an emotional component to it.
30:21
Speaker 2: There is a physiological one.
30:22
Speaker 2: There's a spiritual component to it.
30:24
Speaker 1: 100%.
30:25
Speaker 1: 100%.
30:26
Speaker 1: Let's remember something obvious, and Harper touched on it.
30:29
Speaker 1: AI is just a tool, and it's all about how you use it.
30:32
Speaker 1: They're great for, you know, if you think, you know,
30:36
Speaker 1: here's the world of history and knowledge and everything else,
30:39
Speaker 1: And nobody, no matter even a voracious reader like blue, can know it all.
30:42
Speaker 1: So you go and say, tell me about this.
30:44
Speaker 1: But then you got to do some thinking of what the hell to do with it.
30:47
Speaker 1: And I think that's the part where a lot of people fall down is they just want AI to give them the answers instead of using it as an assistance to help them think better or to get the answers quicker or have more data to come up with answers.
31:01
Speaker 1: Friction, baby.
31:03
Speaker 2: When I have to think, when I am forced to actually have to comprehend and go through those nuances, that little frustration, that agitation that comes up in my mind, that's actually what's building.
31:14
Speaker 2: It's not a problem.
31:16
Speaker 2: It is the process of rewiring.
31:18
Speaker 2: That friction and trying to remove it from my life is not beneficial.
31:24
Speaker 2: And more often than not, I'm not getting that friction from AI.
31:28
Speaker 2: I get that from relationships or, you know, interactions with other humans, particularly men, because let's face it, between the two genders, men aren't agreeable.
31:38
Speaker 2: They're not.
31:39
Speaker 2: Or at least if they are going to come to an agreement, all the details need to be sorted out.
31:44
Speaker 2: They don't just arbitrarily make agreement.
31:47
Speaker 2: And that friction is what helps me evolve.
31:51
Speaker 5: I'd say that men are not agreeable. I would think that's not entirely the truth because men can agree to disagree and walk away and still be friends. Good luck finding women who agree and disagree.
32:04
Speaker 3: Like from a personality point of view, men are more disagreeable than women.
32:10
Speaker 3: We're more open about being disagreeable.
32:13
Speaker 3: But the truth of the matter is, I think women are on the surface of it more agreeable.
32:19
Speaker 3: But behind that fucking surface, they can be absolutely fucking viciously disagreeable, you know, in a way that men in general aren't, you know.
32:31
Speaker 3: I just look, I love my woman.
32:33
Speaker 3: She's a great woman.
32:34
Speaker 3: All you men have met her.
32:36
Speaker 3: Getting her to go on a fucking trip is a nightmare for me.
32:40
Speaker 3: A nightmare.
32:41
Speaker 3: She's so disagreeable about the whole process.
32:44
Speaker 3: And, you know, she smiles.
32:45
Speaker 3: And, you know, I've been invited to have dinner in Las Vegas with my buddy,
32:52
Speaker 3: Wayne Allen Root.
32:53
Speaker 3: Right?
32:54
Speaker 3: Good man.
32:55
Speaker 3: We've done some work together.
32:56
Speaker 3: We've never met before in person.
33:00
Speaker 3: So I'm going to Vegas.
33:01
Speaker 3: So I'm just going to get there a little early and have dinner with him in August.
33:06
Speaker 3: And I said, look, you should come so we can have dinner with him and his wife.
33:10
Speaker 3: And I think it's really great.
33:11
Speaker 3: And, you know, there's a lot of reasons she, she knows of Wayne.
33:14
Speaker 3: She likes Wayne and man, it's just, you know, just like, just like to me, it should be,
33:22
Speaker 3: yeah, okay, sure.
33:23
Speaker 3: Book the trip.
33:24
Speaker 3: And it's not, you know, it's definitely not.
33:28
Speaker 3: And if I lose my patience, it is not a good time.
33:34
Speaker 3: Like, you know, she's going to get pissed.
33:36
Speaker 3: And there's going to be no sex for Baloo for a couple weeks because of that, you know?
33:41
Speaker 5: So what would happen if you bought the airline ticket for her and just said, hey, it's booked, we're going?
33:47
Speaker 5: Oh, I've done that before.
33:48
Speaker 5: And?
33:49
Speaker 3: I'll go through weeks of hell.
33:51
Speaker 3: Weeks of hell.
33:51
Speaker 3: Really?
33:52
Speaker 3: Oh, gosh.
33:52
Speaker 3: Wow.
33:54
Speaker 3: Interesting.
33:55
Speaker 3: Baloo, remember task number two, be a good listener.
33:58
Speaker 3: Oh, dude, dude, I'm telling you, I am listening.
34:02
Speaker 3: It's just, this is a good idea for both of us.
34:04
Speaker 3: It's a really good idea.
34:06
Speaker 3: It's a really, really good idea at a personal level, at a, at a, at a soul level, at a,
34:12
Speaker 3: at a business level.
34:13
Speaker 3: It's just a good idea.
34:15
Speaker 3: But like I said, um, you know, I'm just more open about being disagreeable.
34:20
Speaker 3: She's more disagreeable with a beautiful smile on her disagreeableness.
34:25
Speaker 3: Oh, Nikki.
34:28
Speaker 3: anyway it's not good so men you know as as as we kind of wind down our conversation
34:36
Speaker 3: uh i think we've had a good series of back and forths on what a men's group is what is in it
34:43
Speaker 3: for a man to be in a men's group what it takes to have that men's group give that man a lot of
34:48
Speaker 3: success. And also we have talked about the importance of a man maintaining his sovereignty
34:57
Speaker 3: and how he thinks and not outsourcing his sovereignty to AI, which is a nice bit of a
35:05
Speaker 3: sidebar conversation. As we're looking to wrap this up, I want to just get some final thoughts
35:10
Speaker 2: from every man. And let's start with Cooper. You asked an interesting question earlier,
35:15
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure we exactly tackled it entirely yet.
35:18
Speaker 2: That secret sauce stuff that makes it work.
35:21
Speaker 3: I thought we did tackle it,
35:22
Speaker 3: which is the secret sauce is always raising standards
35:27
Speaker 3: and making sure.
35:27
Speaker 3: That's one of them.
35:28
Speaker 3: But I think men need to have fun together.
35:31
Speaker 2: They need to be engaged in meaningful, purposeful,
35:34
Speaker 2: solid directions where they're moving
35:38
Speaker 2: towards something that's greater than them.
35:40
Speaker 2: I mean, the standards help that momentum build,
35:44
Speaker 2: but without having some fun,
35:45
Speaker 2: without having a direction, a vision, you know, for where they're going or the impacts that they're
35:50
Speaker 2: causing, I think that dimensionality is lost because the standards are, as you said, that
35:56
Speaker 2: bare minimum, right? But there's also like living towards a code of conduct, as you touch on that,
36:03
Speaker 2: you know, then there's that spirit at which it's done in, you know, I think it's also about having
36:09
Speaker 2: people to compete with, like actually engage with not against necessarily sometimes, but yes,
36:14
Speaker 2: but to compete with, to open up that part of the,
36:20
Speaker 2: I guess you could call it that spirit that might be missing when a man's off
36:23
Speaker 2: on his own. And to be honest, I don't know about you,
36:27
Speaker 2: but I have fun in lots of different forms,
36:29
Speaker 2: but I never have as much fun as when I'm hanging around men.
36:32
Speaker 2: I don't know why it's an actually good time. It's a different type of fun.
36:37
Speaker 3: So, you know,
36:38
Speaker 3: I think that's a good point that you're making that having fun's important.
36:42
Speaker 3: And I also,
36:43
Speaker 3: It just made me think that I know there's a code of honor from the work that we've done,
36:46
Speaker 3: but I think sovereign man ought to have a code of conduct, right?
36:50
Speaker 3: And the first fucking thing about our code of conduct is have fun.
36:55
Speaker 3: The second thing about it is keep raising your standards, right?
36:59
Speaker 3: Because if a man is having fun in life, it's just going to make him want to participate more.
37:07
Speaker 3: The juice will be worth the squeeze.
37:09
Speaker 3: But a man's got to keep his eye on standards.
37:11
Speaker 3: So those are two aspects of a sovereign man code of conduct that I think are valuable.
37:17
Speaker 2: And I think another part of that secret sauce is, you know, is I wouldn't say getting rid of an ego that keeps an environment of men working together.
37:25
Speaker 2: It's knowing where and when and how to engage with the ego.
37:30
Speaker 2: That is a very important part to keeping some degree of harmony existence there where, yes, conflict can emerge, but in a productive sense.
37:39
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't allow allowing it the appropriate space.
37:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
37:44
Speaker 2: Like I've had some moments where, yeah, like, hey, it's actually gone to the place where, okay, I'm going to be physical with another person.
37:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit of a little bit of fighting.
37:54
Speaker 2: But you know what?
37:55
Speaker 2: The man I fought with cared more about me in that moment.
38:00
Speaker 2: So even then it was, you know, his his his ability to exercise care and control his ego when mine was out of control.
38:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:09
Speaker 3: You know, I'm going to borrow this from the Code of Honor, but commitment before ego is a good way to encapsulate all that.
38:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's good.
38:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:22
Speaker 3: All right.
38:23
Speaker 1: Final thoughts.
38:24
Speaker 1: So my final thoughts as I'm listening to Banks, and it is one of our codes, is do your best.
38:31
Speaker 1: And when I think of the number of years that I've been involved in men's work and seen many men come and go,
38:37
Speaker 1: And the ones who left versus the ones who have stuck it out and elevated their game,
38:42
Speaker 1: that, first of all, is the essential, is giving it your best.
38:47
Speaker 1: But there's also something, and again, I see this in my CFO groups.
38:50
Speaker 1: Some people are made for this stuff, or they put their mind in the right place.
38:54
Speaker 1: They're open.
38:55
Speaker 1: I told a quick story at the beginning of how we met, and I was totally open to find out
39:00
Speaker 1: about this.
39:02
Speaker 1: And it may, again, come to this thing about ego, that we bring men in on a guest basis,
39:07
Speaker 1: And because very painfully obvious within, you know, if they join and do three meetings in, they're just not the right person.
39:16
Speaker 1: And they probably know it too.
39:17
Speaker 1: But I think it comes back to a fundamental.
39:20
Speaker 1: I am open to learning.
39:21
Speaker 1: I am open to, I know I want to do better.
39:24
Speaker 1: I am open to elevating my game.
39:26
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, am I doing my best in that environment for me, first of all?
39:31
Speaker 1: I'm useless to anybody else if I'm not giving my best for what I can do.
39:36
Speaker 1: And then obviously expanded to those around me.
39:39
Speaker 1: And so I think that's one of the things that we endeavor.
39:41
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell you a quick point that I remember.
39:44
Speaker 1: One of the men, I think he was a guest, and he was just on guest night.
39:48
Speaker 1: And it was somebody I brought.
39:49
Speaker 1: And one of the things that really impressed him on that night was he said he could see how much the men on the call, so much for, I know you don't like this word, Banks, but helpful, caring about another man and doing what they could to be of service to them.
40:06
Speaker 1: man. And he was surprised in this environment to see that. And that was, for him, sort of the
40:13
Speaker 1: epiphany of what he would want to get out of this thing and why he was considering joining,
40:18
Speaker 5: because that really hit home for him. I think the care is being infused with support.
40:26
Speaker 5: You know, men don't support, like women support. You know, we empower, we embrace, we coach,
40:37
Speaker 5: challenge, and we're always action-driven.
40:40
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying?
40:41
Speaker 5: Because a man that grieves his father can't grieve forever.
40:46
Speaker 5: After he's given some time, he has to get back into action.
40:51
Speaker 5: Otherwise, he'll never get over.
40:52
Speaker 5: He'll never get over the loss.
40:54
Speaker 5: And that's the truth, right?
40:58
Speaker 5: That's why the support's for tits.
41:01
Speaker 5: We don't do that.
41:02
Speaker 5: A man can take a few days and then he has to get moving again.
41:06
Speaker 5: Otherwise, he'll die in grief and that's not right.
41:10
Speaker 5: But I think one of our code of conduct should be embrace your masculine.
41:13
Speaker 5: Embrace your masculine.
41:15
Speaker 5: A lot of men don't know that it's okay to do that.
41:21
Speaker 5: Be the man.
41:23
Speaker 5: Be the man you're supposed to be.
41:25
Speaker 5: And if that means that you have to turn to another man and call him out in the most brutal and honest way for his benefit,
41:32
Speaker 5: it, then you should be doing that.
41:35
Speaker 5: That's your
41:36
Speaker 5: God-given obligation
41:38
Speaker 5: to being in a circle with men.
41:40
Speaker 5: Tell them the ugly truth so the man can
41:42
Speaker 5: make changes and be in action to fix that.
41:45
Speaker 5: Be a better father,
41:46
Speaker 5: better man in the world.
41:48
Speaker 5: Embrace your masculine.
41:51
Speaker 3: Alright, Banks.
41:52
Speaker 3: Truth quickly, brother.
41:54
Speaker 2: To be honest, I think being around
41:56
Speaker 2: men's circles over time
41:58
Speaker 2: and whatever arena that's been in has
42:00
Speaker 2: taught me that I am
42:01
Speaker 2: like virtually the same as 99 of other men 99.9 as a matter of fact the only small difference in
42:10
Speaker 2: variable there between the good and bad out there in the world is the ones that they surround
42:14
Speaker 2: themselves with 99 of us are just the same though and when i started realizing that it actually
42:20
Speaker 2: allowed me to realize i can have a bigger change on the world because i can relate with people get
42:24
Speaker 2: together and actually conquer something bigger than myself and my own we'll call it bullshit
42:30
Speaker 2: goals you know nice to have you know all of that shit you know it's given me more meaning for
42:36
Speaker 3: something that matters yeah this has been a great podcast panel we ought to do this again um a few
42:44
Speaker 3: times this year and and talk about other topics that we want to get into i think it's valuable
42:51
Speaker 3: for the four of us to come here and talk out loud and think out loud with one another because it
43:00
Speaker 3: solidifies our thinking around how we want to serve the men inside the Sovereign Man community
43:06
Speaker 3: and in the world of love. So thanks for coming, man. It was really great to have you here.
43:11
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
43:12
Speaker 5: Pleasure. Good times as always.
43:15
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And that's a wrap.
43:18
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to the Sovereign Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your
43:23
Speaker 4: life and become the man you've always wanted to be, we invite you to join the movement at
43:29
Speaker 6: sovereignman.ca.