Latest / The Source – The Jorgensen Land & Cattle Podcast / Episode 7: Managing People

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Episode 7: Managing People · The Source – The Jorgensen Land & Cattle Podcast

• speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Over a hundred years of experience lie in ideal South Dakota. The team at Jorgenson Landon Cattle is gonna take the time to offer insight into that experience along with many other industry experts. If you're ready to learn and grow, this is the Source. As Tom Burke would say, ⁓ happy days. Welcome to the Source. ⁓ little different episode for you guys today. ⁓ we're gonna talk about a topic that ⁓ farmers and ranchers deal with on a day-to-day basis, but ⁓ But maybe don't think about ⁓ certainly not discussed amongst groups. We talk a lot about genetics, we talk a lot about soil health practices. But ⁓ I heard a gentleman on the Beef Pros podcast many years ago and went back and tried to find the episode and it's not out there anymore. ⁓ he said they they send us to college to learn how to manage cows or for our guests learn how to manage the economics of the operation. And we come out having to manage people. And ⁓ man, what a What a hard a hard thing to have to learn, especially at a young age. And ⁓ even as an older person if you step into a leadership role, having to learn that on the fly is a is a big challenge and man, what a what a guest to have sitting with me because ⁓ Mr. Nick Jorgensen went to college and did definitely come straight back into that that managing people role. And so, ⁓ Nick, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself again to the to the folks at home and ⁓ Talk a little bit about speaker-1: Yeah, well thanks, Jamie. You know, like we you know, the first first time we talked, I'm CEO Jorgensen Landing Cattle. ⁓ one of the partners, ⁓ my dad's Brian, runs the farming side of the operation. My cousin Cody runs the livestock side of the operation, my uncle Greg, ⁓ is kind of a part-time sales guy for us, but he's semi-retired as well. And and I just you know, a s a CEO at ⁓ Jorgensaline cattle means something different than when you hear the word CEO at a at another business. And I like to tell people it it means something different primarily because you can never be a CEO to someone who changed your diapers. And ⁓ you know, I never heard speaker-0: Put that way, but that is ⁓ as good as a gifts. speaker-1: I yeah I like to say I I I I fill in the gaps more than anything else. And you know, one of those gaps, Jamie, ⁓ was was people, was was handling people. You know, you you made a comment in the introduction there. You said it's it this is something that farmers and ranchers deal with every day. I I I'd like to personally correct you a little bit because I don't think they deal with it. They live with it. Well I they live with speaker-0: That would be probably speaker-1: whatever difficulties or opportunities come across. But I don't think they truly take the time to deal with it. Yeah, right? Absolutely right. And I think that's kind of the critical part when you talk about like, you know, when you say deal with it, I think manage it. I I and I don't mean to be super critical and I don't sit inside a lot of other people's operations, but the simple fact is they don't. Right. Yeah. They they don't manage it. They they roll with whatever comes, right? They and and they find themselves oftentime reacting. And I'm gonna tell you the truth, ⁓ speaker-0: Thank you. speaker-1: You know, ten, fifteen years ago, that's what we were doing. And even to a to a ⁓ to a certain point today, we have to be reactive. ⁓ but you know, we've we've made a pretty strong effort here at Jorgens Atlanta Cattle to be as proactive as possible around this. But you know, ultimately and I I don't wanna not give credit where credit is due, people management is is hard. Finding people to work in agriculture is hard. Right. So this isn't an easy thing for people to deal with in the first place, but you have to be very deliberate about it. Right. Like we are, to to really to take that weight off your shoulders, so to speak. Absolutely. Yeah. speaker-0: So so let's go ahead and step back to when you first came back to Jorgensen's and what the employee landscape looked like at that point. ⁓ and maybe remind us kind of how many bulls we were dealing at that time, kind of put it into per some perspective there. speaker-1: Yeah, so so I I graduated college and ⁓ came back to the operation in two thousand fourteen. ⁓ I wanna say two thousand fourteen, we were probably right around that three thousand bulls a year that we were marketing. and ⁓ I I I did a little little researching or digging into our operations history before this podcast. So in our sale catalog. For years and years and years we listed every employee's name in the book, including the owners. And so I I looked at four time sets 2025, 2015, 2005, and 1995. Take a guess how many employees we had in 1995, Jamie. Including owners. Including owners. Twelve. Twelve. There was twelve people listed in the sale book book. speaker-0: Yes, ⁓ speaker-1: Guess two thousand five. The same twelve. Twelve. Guess two thousand fifteen. Probably twelve. Twelve. Guess twenty twenty five. ⁓ was 47. Forty seven. It was forty-seven that were that were in the sale book. Right. Now I you know, I did I I should have done a better job checking to make sure we got everyone in there, but it but it was forty seven that made their picture in the sale book. And we actually we transitioned, so I want to say probably 2020, this is just a little fact. We stopped putting employee names in the book because it was too many. Right. And the other thing that really changed was if you look at ninety five, two thousand five, twenty fifteen, it's like the same names. speaker-0: Right, exactly. speaker-1: Right. We had a very, very consistent team and that that's something that, you know, we can get into, but that's the way that generation of people was. When you had folks, they were lifers. As a matter of fact, we've got one guy today that's still in that sale book today. Aside from the owners, there's one there's one guy, he's been with us for forty five years, Shane Bingham, ⁓ was in all those sale books. And after When we started growing this thing, I think what you find is is the generation of people that well, like us, myself, yourself, that loyalty is different. Right? Yeah. It it's harder to find to find lifers, so to speak. Now that's not to say they don't exist and there's not guys that aren't really, really good and really, really committed. I wanna make that clear. But you know what? It's it's just one of the side effects of growing your team. You're gonna deal with turnover. And so like twenty twenty, we just said, Man, this was it was getting really tough to Well, first of all, made sure we got all the names in the book. We had a couple of situations where we forgot a name and that never feels good. Right. Right. And then some situations where we put a name in and we're making this book in March. And then by the time the sale rolls around, that person ain't here anymore. And so we we just kind of went away from it and we listed the owners and we said thanks to our team. And then this year, ⁓ with a couple of the changes we made, we decided, well, we have we got Boston on the team now that take good photos of the team. We've got Reagan on the team that can kind of coordinate all this stuff from an HR perspective. So we got everyone's photo and we just put everyone's photo in the book. And I I really like that. I think it it dedicates a little more space to the team, right? Cause you know, that book gets a lot of attention. Everyone's face is in there. ⁓ and it's ⁓ it's something we can repeat every year pretty easily. speaker-0: Right, and and how beneficial is that when somebody rolls in here to look at bulls and you know, they they can at least see a see a face and go, Okay, that guy does work here, I can speaker-1: I saw him. I saw him the other day. Yeah. And s you know, so so kind of back to just you asked the question like, all right, we were leasing three thousand bulls in twenty fifteen. This year it's gonna be s well, I shouldn't say leasing. We marketed three thousand bulls. This year it's it's gonna be over six thousand, probably sixty two hundred and fifty more or less in there. So we've doubled the amount of bulls we release and but we have tripled, well, almost quadrupled. the amount of employees. So the other thing I you know, so you look at man, that's just not super efficient. Right. Right. So I'll make a couple of comments there. We were grossly understaffed in 2015. That was and I I want to make it clear. I don't want to take any credit for anything here. But when I came back, that was one of the first things I noticed is man, we just don't we can't get everything that we need to get done done when it needs to get done. And so you I'll I'll give you an example like weaning time. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Right. We'd go to wean calves. That was an all hands on deck scenario. I mean, we had probably nine of our twelve people engaged in that. Well, guess what else is going on during weaning time? We're trying to get hay put up. Yep. Depending on the year, you might still be combining. Right. ⁓ you could very well be trying to get cover crops in or, you know, even really speaker-0: Keep trying to speaker-1: If you're starting weed early, you can and and and so what would happen is everything would get put aside for a couple of days. And that but that was the way that was just one example. That was the way every project went. Right. Right. So we're weaning, it's all hands on deck. We're breeding, it's all hands on deck. ⁓ you know, the middle of June, and all right, we're it's it's hay time. And so these cows will go out to pasture and they get left alone for a month 'cause we gotta get hay put up. And and then the other part that happened is is we had Cody was out feeding cows. Right. I was out feeding cows. I was out putting up hay. I was, you know, Brian was in the combine. I was in a combine. And, you know, that was one of the things that really changed. And I w we don't deserve all the credit ourselves. We brought in some outside resources, but it's that difference of working in the business versus working on the business. And it became evident to me as like, man, I it's important. Getting all these operational things are important. But who's steering the ship here? Right. It's really hard to steer the ship when you're sitting in front of a in in in front of a baylor. Really, really is. speaker-0: And I'll I'll give you a little my own perspective there from my first job straight out of college. You know, when we're we're two guys on a place and ⁓ start keving cows the fifteenth of January and we got six hundred cows to Kevin, it's the two of us. All you did I mean, it was everything you had for twenty hours a day and you got nothing done. You kept cows, you fed, you cleaned, and that was speaker-1: Nothing else done. Well and you're fried because that that's that's a better example than weaning or anything else because calving is is absolutely taxing. Yeah. You're involved in that. You you don't have the physical space, you don't have the mental space, you don't have the emotional space to deal with anything else. Nope. Right. And it's just that it's it needs to get done. It absolutely needs to get done. But man, it it's harder to to to run that business. speaker-0: Well yeah, and you know, you you even tie that back to Kafka isn't as good as it probably needs to be. And there there's just a lot of little gaps there that maybe aren't getting filled in. That's the difference between being profitable that year for sure and and not making any money. Yep. ⁓ so I think that's really unique that that you guys saw that and just said, look, we're gonna put an emphasis on adding people to this team that can help. speaker-1: We did. And and so just, you know, to kind of sum up that comment I was making, you know, so I I it doesn't seem very efficient, right? We quadruple the team, you double the amount of bulls that you're marketing. Well, I I actually ran it yesterday. So if you look at total revenue, it tracked one hundred percent. Okay. We quadrupled the team, we quadrupled revenue. So you can actually I and I don't we don't have it pulled up, but it's really, really neat. That those two lines track almost perfectly together. Starting and actually we started growing that team about 2017. And from 2017 to 2025, revenue actually more than quadrupled here. Right. And so, you know, you always kind of find yourself wondering, hey, do we have enough people? Are there too many? ⁓ and that that to me was a real good level set to look that and say, Hey, look, we're not out of line in any way, shape, or form. But you know, I will say Ninety five to two thousand seventeen, man, we ran lean. We were we were pumping out a good amount of revenue with not that many people. Right. But it was just there was a turning point there when, all right, this thing's gonna get serious and and we're gonna start, you know, I'll just we're gonna be we're gonna exceed ten million revenue and even more. You gotta start running that business too. Right. You just have to start running that business. Absolutely. And ⁓ and that's it's it's not been an easy thing. Right. And and one of the other inflection points that we kind of hit recently was ⁓ you know, for ten years, not quite ten, let's just call it eight or nine, I was kind of primarily responsible for coordinating an internship program, coordinating the H two A program, which is a a big part of what we do. Right. We'd be we'd be you know, up up a creek if it weren't for you know our guy, our friends from South speaker-0: We'll talk about that in a minute. speaker-1: ⁓ and then just kind of coordinating generally ⁓ the hiring and firing. And last year we actually we brought in Regan Nielsen, who's my sister and she handles HR for us now. So now that whole responsibility is is on you know, it's not her job to figure out who who needs hired and or fired, but it is her responsibility once we've decided, hey, we need got an open position here, you go out into the marketplace and help us get it filled. ⁓ And that that makes a big difference. And, you know, it's it's all about ⁓ you know, just for me personally and as a as kind of the CEO at I view my biggest responsibility really as just making sure the ship's pointed in the right direction. Right. And ⁓ that was just another thing. It was certain that was consuming a lot of my time. Like, hey, ⁓ do we have enough people? Does this person need to go? Do we need to add a new person that it's important, but it distracts from you know my overall responsibility of making sure that the ship is getting rowed in the right direction. Absolutely. Yeah. speaker-0: Absolutely. So let's go to 2017. And you guys make the decision as an ownership team that we need to grow staff. What did that look like in 2017? Were you hiring for specific positions that you guys had thought through and come up with? Or did you just want to bring team members in and then let them get in where they fit in and find their strengths and use them to the best of their ability? speaker-1: So a lot of a lot of things happened kind of concurrently. So I'll just kind of take you through it. ⁓ you know, like I mentioned before, back into perpetuity, right, to to nineteen ⁓ nine, right. This organization was very flat. And what I mean by flat was e everyone did everything There were no middle managers, right? There was an ownership group and then there was everybody else. And a lot of time that ownership group was s sandwiched right in with the operational guys because they're out there doing the stuff too. Absolutely. We brought in some out it outside help. ⁓ we've been working with Keep Farmers Farming, which was a division of First Dakota. Now it sits inside the South Dakota Egg Foundation. ⁓ Alan Hoyer is is is the consultant's name, has been working with us since either seventeen or eighteen. I I can't remember for sure, but speaker-0: I don't want to break your momentum. Folks, if you have not looked at Keep Farmers Farming and looked Alan Hoyer up, that gentleman is a wealth of knowledge. Please, everybody, we will pop his contact information on the screen right here. If you have any questions about succession planning or business running, please get in touch with Alan. That gentleman is outstanding. speaker-1: Yeah. I cannot I can't speak enough accolades for Alan in that program. It it has been probably one of the working with them has been one of the single biggest difference makers for us getting to where we are today. And so case in point, you know, we we brought Alan on board and he, you know, he he does succession planning, but he actually stepped in and just helped us figure out like w how do we want to structure this organization. Right. Right. 'Cause it it cannot stay flat forever. And This is a contentious point that I'll stand by that I think even some people in our our organization ⁓ disagree with a little bit, but I I I feel pretty confident in it is that you get to a large enough team, everybody can't do everything anymore. Agreed. Right? Agreed. It used to be, you know, Jimmy, you you you spent a lot of your time in the office. Andy Tagadoff spends a lot of time in the office. And he would go feed bulls when were short. Right. Right? Yep. And that's great because you have flexibility. But what ends up happening is like, would you do the opposite? Would you bring and I I gotta be really careful how I phrase this because I don't want to belittle anybody. Right. But would you would you bring, you know, anyone f operationally inside and ask them, hey, will you come sell bowls for me for the day? speaker-0: And and the answer has to be no there. speaker-1: And it's no offense to anyone. It's just not it's you're not it's not your area of expertise. Right. And so Andy goes out and feeds bulls. I can guarantee you I appreciate the help, but he's not as good as the guy that does it every day. Absolutely. Right. And it make it's the same argument the guy that feeds bulls every day is probably not as good as the guy that goes sorts bulls every day. Right. Or goes out and moves cows. And you get to a large enough team, you can start to kind of segment people. It happens in every organization. Right. And and and a farm and ranch organization ultimately as a business is no different than any other. Right. And I think that's one thing we do in agriculture. Well, this is a farm and ranch. You're right. But it's a business. Right. You're running a business here. And so we we started to structure the organization. Right. And we we put it, you know, we had the ownership group in place. We put in place kind of a a middle management team, if you will, these operations leaders like like today, you know, John Barfus, who really kind of oversees all operations for us. And then you've got you know, Philip running the feed lot, you've got Dylan Donahue that that runs the cows. You've got ⁓ and even even we've refine that even more over time, like where we have Mike Cochair kind of leads that feed team. Right. We bring in, you know, these guys on the hay team, we make a crew leader, and you've got this middle management structure that then they're responsible, you know, for those people on that team. Yep. Right. And it allowed us, and when I say us, I mean the ownership group, to really Get out of the day-to-day operations. Yep. Right. And so what we did was we took four employees out of the operational structure. Right. And that was actually probably more because Andy Tagadoff was in there, you know, at the time and and some other office people that we just kind of moved them out of operations. And that immediately created a need for more folks right away. Because we lost people. Yep. Didn't lose them. We just repositioned them. Right. And so we had that structure in place. The next thing we started doing, and this has evolved over time, but We started like actually objectively tracking how many people we need on a team. So we have a a couple of Excel spreadsheets that we use that you know, we break the business down into let's just say activities. And so like, you know, feedings and activity, breedings and activity, sortings and activity, spraying, combining, chopping, bailing. They all sit on this spreadsheet and we actually map out, okay, every week of the year, how many people do I need on that team? Right. And so obviously on the hate team, it's it's blank. from you know a September first to May first, but then May first to September first. Right now we've got seven people that are on that team. Right. And so we can you can run across that horizontally and you can look on a weekly basis how many people I need on this team. And we just call it a people needs chart, but it helps us map out kind of the seasonality of how everything works. Yep. And then that helps us figure out, okay, do we need a do we need an H2A worker that's here seasonal? Right. Do we need an intern? that you know is here for three months and and fills, you know, one of those sorting's a great example. Right? Our heavy sorting season is is May fifteenth to really July fifteenth. Yep. No better fit than for a college intern to come in here and get exposed to something they're not going to see anywhere else in the world at the scale of what ninety bowls a day going out the month of June. Yep. You're not going to see that anywhere else. No. So we can we can decide, all right, we need an intern in this role. We need a spring intern, for example, for semen testing. Right. Right. And then there's also these roles like feeding is a great example. That's not seasonal at all. No. Right? At least in the feedlot. Cow feeding is a little bit different, but in the feedlot, we need guys there every day of the year. Right. It's the only thing we do every single day. Right. And then so it lets us look at this and we can break it down and say, all right, well, it looks like based on the mix of what's going on this week, we need to go find ⁓ you know, a a farm equipment operator, 'cause we need a guy to sit in a baylor or sit in a combine, right? Run a combine for us. Or we need a a pasture guy, right? Or a past I say guy of a pasture individual. And that's kind of how we started to build out how this looks. Okay. Absolutely. And then it's just a matter of, you know, do we run ads on Facebook? Do we put ⁓ on a job board? Do we go find a headhunter? Right. And that's kind of how that process works today. speaker-0: And I think it's it's so unique that you guys, you know, number one, you brought Alan in and then he along with you guys had the wherewithal to look at it from a team need rather than just a person need. And y you know, I I'm good at a lot of things. If you hired me and then expected me to sit in a tractor for fourteen hours a day every day, I'm not gonna be here anymore because I that speaker-1: Yep. Yep. speaker-0: Number one, I don't enjoy it. Number two, I'm no good at it. So it's gonna cost both of us a lot of money. speaker-1: Yep. Well and it and it goes it goes the flip side. Like I want to make it really clear. I'm not stratifying, you know, how good of a job someone does because they're in the office or or operations, right? There are some people that can write a desk call. I'm one of them. I you I I spent my my day as well and you do too, right? Yeah. We're in the office. Yeah. Right. Work done there. Some days it sucks. But there are some people that would would absolutely hate their job if they had to write a desk. They would hate it. Yep. And they could sit in that tractor for fourteen hours a day. That's what they love. Or they can be out on that horse for fourteen hours a day. And it's about placing people where they want to be, not putting a round peg in a square hole. Because you put a round peg in a square hole, they're gonna hate it, I'm gonna hate it, and it's gonna cost everyone money, just like you said. Right. More than it should. Right. speaker-0: So so you start to build this team and and we've gone from fifteen twelve in two thousand fifteen to now sitting at forty up upper forties at this point today. speaker-1: And I should I wanna stop you. One critical point there is that's not including the teammates at the Lazy J Grand Lodge. If you include them, that is where you speaker-0: That's where the fifty two number comes from. Yep. Okay. So you bring people in and and employee retention we know is in the agriculture sector is just a bear. Yep. ⁓ some of it's because I think again, we've tried to fit a round peg in a square hole. Some of it is ⁓ guys making promises that they probably know they're not gonna fulfill. ⁓ on both sides, absolutely absolutely. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. On both sides. The employer's just as bad at that as the employee, I can tell ya. speaker-0: And and some of it is that ⁓ a guy like me, you know, I I have a master's degree in nutrition, got done with school and I didn't want to go write a desk. So I went and grounded out for two years and and decided, you know, I've got an education and this does not pay near good enough for me to be out here for eighteen to twenty hours a day, Kevin Cow's infected. speaker-1: Yep. It's it's the highest and best use of your time. Right. Is what I always say. speaker-0: And and so so how do you strike that balance of of retaining the right people in the right places to to keep this team moving forward? Because my gosh, do we do a lot of things at speaker-1: We do a lot of things. And so that's that was another change that took place. And I I want to be careful how how much I I lean on this because no, I can't. Theoretically I can talk about kind of the philosophy. Then there's also the reality there. But so let me talk about a philosoph philosophical change that we made about the same time, seventeen, eighteen ish. Go back to your, you know, your out of college ranch experience. How many days of work of week did you work? Seven. You worked seven. speaker-0: And if you don't want to talk about speaker-1: a very common thing. I'm gonna guess, you know, people listening to this that are working on a farm or ranch today, it's more common to work seven days a week than it is to work five. speaker-0: I'll I'll go ahead and tell you my my house that I lived in was twelve steps from the front door of the cabin barn. There was literally no getting. speaker-1: Yep. So you no getting away. Right. You were at work world really kind of twenty-four seven. Right. For some people that's great. Some people actually really, really love that. And I gotta tell you the truth, if I didn't have five kids and a wife that I loved, I would probably be one of those guys that would just be here all the time. But I've I've got a life outside work. You need that life outside of work. I think that's a huge piece of of r retention. Is the fact that, yeah, hey, we want you here and we want you committed and we want you full time, but we don't want your whole life. Right. And so we were in the same boat. I wouldn't I'm not gonna sit here and say that we work seven days a week, but it was it was a solid six. And what had started to happen is, you know, that Saturday, Saturdays really started to suck. Mm-hmm. Because you were starting to see these signs of people that wanted a life. And then we would try and, you know, you're trying to work on a project like, hey, we're gonna process 400 calves today. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Well shit, all of a sudden you get you only got three guys because I I had to go do this this weekend, I'm going to the river. And then everyone's upset because I wanted to get this done, but I can't. Right. And so we made the decision to just say, Look, the the cows gotta get fed. Mm-hmm. That's gotta happen on Saturday, Sunday, no matter what. Yep. ⁓ you know, during planning season, look, we want those things running 'cause you got a short window. Right. The cows don't take a break during calving season. So there are certain things that you just gotta blow this reel at the wheel. But generally we're gonna say, we say to our team, this is this is Monday through Friday. You're welcome to come in Saturday. Yep. You're welcome to come in on Sunday. But I'm not gonna force you and say, hey, we've got a big project every Saturday we're working on. Right. ⁓ and to me that was it was a big deal for myself. And I, you know, I don't want to speculate on how everyone feels about it on the team, but you know, it was meant to be a meaningful thing to to signal to people, we want you here, but we don't want your whole life. And so that was one from a retention perspective is you don't have to come here and expect that you're gonna be here seven days a week. Right. Right? Yep. Some people still do it and that's great. Yep. But that's their own choice in a lot of cases. Yep. ⁓ so there was that. I think another thing. that that we take seriously that actually I think maybe even just gets a flies under the radar and and maybe goes I'm not gonna say underappreciated, but probably un unrealized with a lot of our employees is is the benefits that we offer. Right. This you know, you're gonna be an hourly employee here, but you can get health insurance. Right. You can get dental. We do lunch here every single day, you know, free of charge. All these different things I think that's meaningfully different than just, hey, look, I'm gonna go work at a feel line, I'm gonna make X dollars an hour and that's that. Yep. ⁓ not everyone takes advantage of that because it's not meaningful to some people, but it is an option that's presented to everyone, right? And so you've got that as well. And then I think I also want to probably, you know, make clear that when there is stuff on the weekends, like chores is a great example, feeding bowls. We rotate through our team. So it ain't the same guy. You know, we don't have someone here that is forced to be here seven days a week just because you're on this team. Right. We rotate through that team. And so yeah, you might have to work a weekend. In the in the winter it might be every other. ⁓ in the summer it might be every four or five. But we rotate through. So everyone gets that that time of their life. That that was a a big one for me. we've all we'd always done that, but I that's really important. And so those are those are two things. And then I I think the last one that just f from a retention perspective is and and y you guys are gonna see this. Every Monday this this team meets, the whole team. Yep. We all get together, we have an operational meeting, and everyone knows, at least at a high level, what's going on everywhere else inside the business. Right. And in that meeting room, you're gonna see banners that have our vision and our mission. Yep. Right. And a couple other cultural things in there that And then frankly in all the other buildings you're gonna see, you know, different you're gonna see those banners as well. You're gonna see some standards that we have in place. And the whole idea there is to is to make it clear that This does this isn't just like you're not just here to feed cows. Right. You're part of a a way bigger thing that's going on here. And you hopefully that's meaningful. Right. Right. That this isn't just a this isn't just an eight to five and I I feed cows and I go home and I don't really know why the hell I'm doing it. Right. Right. We try and make it really clear how it all fits together. We involve our our team in the annual strategy sessions we go through just to try and make it feel like you're you're part of something bigger than just what you're doing yourself. speaker-0: And and you want that guy driving a feed wagon to understand that that the bulls that he's feeding are controlling the genetics of the largest seed stock operation in the United States. I mean I mean we're we're we're a center point here for for genetics moving out into the industry and and for somebody that just drives a feed truck, maybe maybe that doesn't click for them, but I think we've done a nice job of trying to make sure those guys understand that hey speaker-1: Two hundred thousand cows. speaker-0: We're a great big picture here in Ideal. And and so I think that's really important. speaker-1: Yep. But you know, I I should probably step back and say, you know, ultimately, ⁓ you know, that this this is a job for folks. And you're gonna get people that that that don't get it and have to move on or wanna move on. And that's just that's just part of life. And and so that's you know, that's where Reagan comes in and kind of our function around how many people we need on teams and where we gotta fill those roles is really, really nice because we can be prepared. Right. Right. Right. ⁓ for when those things happen because they're just gonna speaker-0: So so let's talk about the South Africans a minute because ⁓ it's a a a solid portion of our team at this point and ⁓ th those guys are are working dudes and and they're a lot of fun to have around. ⁓ kind of touch on when you started that and the the the team of South Africans that you've put together that it seems like I've been here for two years and and that team looks really, really similar from when I started. speaker-1: Yep. So we actually started working with the H two A program back in twenty fifteen. Excuse me, twenty fifteen, used it for a couple years and like your typical farmer and rancher, didn't like all the regulations and paperwork that come along with it. And so we actually we stepped back away from it for a couple of years. I think we st we started up again, I believe in twenty twenty. So it was like two years. We used it fifteen, sixteen and then took a break for like three. And then it just became evident like We've just we've got these seasonal jobs here. And I'll you know, I I'll give you two really good examples. Show silage truck driver, silage truck driver, silage chopper operator, guys on the hay crew, guys who run a planner. That that's that's very seasonal. That's exactly what that program is designed for. Yep. And what you need in those roles is guys that are here to grind, here to work, and here to s to sit in that seat. And it it That program has worked so well for us because that's exactly what we get. You know, these guys in a lot of cases and w we say South Africans, that's all the guys we get. H to a programs opened at a whole bunch of different nationalities. But ⁓ we we have always gotten ours, the firm we work with pulls them out of South Africa. These guys leave their families, go halfway across the world for nine months to to to make money, right? They're here to work. They're incentivized to work. They're incentivized to work well. They're incentivized to to be good people. Right. And they are. They're great people. And it's it's a it really is a perfect fit for us. 'Cause I gotta tell ya, we'd be we'd be in really big trouble if we didn't have guys to to to fill those roles. We wouldn't get a put up, we wouldn't get salvage put up, it'd be really tough. speaker-0: If you ever get a chance to go to a South African Bri ⁓ man, everybody out there, those boys know how to have a party and make some phenomenal food. If you ever get a chance, join in on one of those. Cool deal. speaker-1: Yeah, that you know that was a that was so we yeah, we did an event on June fourth, kind of a team retreat. And the our our guys from South Africa actually had had been asking us for a while, like, hey, we want to do a bride for you. And we finally just we got it coordinated. Big thanks to to Reagan and Chef Dan to to kind of making that whole thing work. But you're not kidding. That food was unbelievable. I I gotta tell ya, I I could eat I could eat biltong every single day. Yep. Every day. speaker-0: Yeah. So so anybody out there, if you have a South African employee, a ask him about a bride and see if he can get some friends together and have one. It is it's an experience of a lifetime. speaker-1: Well and it was you know, it was a cool event too, 'cause it wasn't just about, you know, trying their food, but it was it was about kind of understanding their culture and getting to know more about those guys, right? 'Cause they're they're here nine months out of the year, but their home is somewhere else. Right. And the way they grew up and their culture is is somewhere else. speaker-0: I I really wish we'd have made sure that we filmed Josh. 'Cause that was that was a very neat. Yep. Very neat little presentation he put together. speaker-1: Yeah, Josh did. Yeah, it was really cool. They're just they're they're great people. Really are. Great guys. And I get people that ask me a lot, you know, you know, what's it like? And honest to God, it's It's no different than someone who grew up in the United States. If you find good guys, look, there's bad ones, but guess what? We got a ton of bad of Americ ton of bad Americans too. Yep. Right. That don't want to work hard. Right. ⁓ and aren't honest. And and we've run into those guys too. But you mentioned that team has stayed the same. That's because we found really, really good guys. Right. They treat us well. We treat them well. There's there's no reason to change those things up. Right. Right. And ⁓ it like I said, we'd be we'd be in big trouble without those guys. speaker-0: So so we talked about the seasonal labor aspect with the H2A program. Touched just a minute on the intern program. Cause I think I think one thing here and the reason why that works at Jorgensen's is because of scale. ⁓ I know if you're a small operation, an intern program is going to be really tough because you're not going to be able to just send them. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Because most of ⁓ don't have any experience. So so touch on just a minute how that's structured for you guys and and how you go about sourcing those interns that come in here. speaker-1: Yeah. So we've been running an internship for for for years and years. You know, we would get an intern here, an intern there, maybe an international student here or there. Really ramped it up around 2015. you know, we're a big South Dakota State University family. That was generally where we focused. We'd go to a career fair at SDSU and ⁓ you know, try and come home with a handful of interns lined up. This year, ⁓ I believe we've got five. speaker-0: Yeah, I believe that's right. speaker-1: Yeah, blue. We've got five of them from several different universities. Auburn, South Dakota State, I think a couple more. Yep. ⁓ to to say that it's like a, you know, there's not a curriculum, right? I mean, you're you're here to work, but we do try our best to first of all position those those kids where they want to be inside the operation. I think that's the other really nice thing about having scale is hey, look, ⁓ I wanna I wanna be on a hay crew in the summer. Okay, well, we can accommodate that. I want to sort bulls. We can accommodate that. I want to work around cows. You know, we can generally accommodate that, right? And so they they they get to operationally learn in a place that's really unique and does stuff at a scale that you're just not going to find in a whole lot of other places. But I think the other thing that we try and be deliberate about is getting them involved in the larger scope of the business. So like we we have monthly management meetings this Thursday, we we're running through them. ⁓ we generally those some those summer interns come in and s and sit in in those meetings. So yeah, they get to see the operational part, but then they also get to see, you know, some of the the administrative and business decision making and the discussions that we have, you know, so they get exposed to that as well. You know, one thing we've done one time it that the interns have always been operations team people. We've we've one time we had a summer intern that came in like in the office ⁓ and did some administrative stuff. Probably something that that we could think through a little bit more. But, you know, operations is really seasonally where it's at. It's just it you know, three months out of the year to come in and and take a it's sort of an administrative role is tough. Yeah. Not a lot of seasonality there. Yep. ⁓ You know, it's and generally they're summer. So like we've got five kids here to summer, ⁓ you know what I will say on this podcast is a lot of tech schools will have like a spring internship program. Right. And man, those are a really good fit for us too, because we get into like semen testing and freeze branding. You know, even if it's only three weeks, you know, someone that wants to to get in and and be in that work and shed and be exposed to breeding soundness exams at a scale that you're not gonna see anywhere else. The the data entry that we do and the decision making that goes on there, I think is a really good opportunity. We have a little bit of a harder time filling that one. speaker-0: Nowhere else on the w in the world will you see. speaker-1: Yeah. And you know, we always make it work, but man, it the the years we've had spring interns, that's been a a super good fit. ⁓ never really done fall. I don't think a lot of schools do ⁓ Spring and summer, heavily weighted toward summer. ⁓ ha has been something we've been doing for about ten years. speaker-0: No, it's not a real speaker-1: And you know, now with with Reagan on the team, one of the things we're trying to do is get a little more rigorous around not necessarily a curriculum, but like look, you're gonna get yeah, you're you're gonna spend your time in the feedlot this summer helping sort bulls. But right we'd we'd love to get you for a day out on the hay crew just to see how that works, or a day out at Pasture to see how that works. Get in your meetings. speaker-0: Yeah, br bring you into the office one day and see all that data that you're putting into the computer. Yep. What is Jamie doing with it on the backside that's helping us make decisions moving forward? 'Cause I I think that's a really, really critical part of the understanding of what we do. speaker-1: Correct. here too. Yep. And that just you know, it just it takes coordination, someone to make sure that happens. Yep. Yep. And and that's where I did it I I that was my I just didn't have time to to organize that the way it should have been. And so she's doing a good job there now. speaker-0: Yep. And again Reagan. ⁓ you mentioned for just a minute ops team meetings. When you when you started that structure and you put that middle management together, who was dictating who was involved in those in those ops team meetings on a monthly basis? And then what does it look like today? You know, I know like our sales team, ⁓ that's a lot of different voices in the room and it makes for a really unique environment. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ if you touch on that a minute, I think that would be some beneficial information. speaker-1: Yeah, so I'll actually I'll touch on the the weekly ops meetings and then the monthly ones, but I'll I'll hit on the monthly ones first. And so we started those about the same time that we did everything else. And Alan came on board and seventeen or eighteen put this structure in place. And you know, we we recognized right away, well, if if Cody's not the one or Greg's not the one selling those bulls every single day, how is he gonna stay abreast of what goes on? Now we don't have a super spread out team. And so, you know, they get that feeling every day, but real, a real formal kind of reporting, hey, let's go through and talk about this. Meeting was gonna be needed. And so we decided to set those up. And as far as who gets involved in them, you know, at first it was the ownership group that decided what team members. And as we've grown, you know, like, you know, for a nutrition team meeting for example, you know, we're gonna lean on Phillip a little bit and say, hey Philip, Bring who you gotta bring. Yeah, who you need. Get who you gotta get here. Dylan, get who you gotta get here. John, same thing. Yep. ⁓ and what it ultimately results in is, you know, it results in a full room in here. Right. Right. Yep. ⁓ but you get you you know what what they would generally call it, like, you know, in the corporate world is like real good cross functional interaction. Right. Right. And so you don't you're not running these silos, right? And everyone knows why these decisions you know, John Barfus understands from agronomy side why we planted a thousand acres of forage wheat this year. Right. And why it's gotta be chopped at this point in time because it's you know, we need it for feed and there's just there's an effort is to reduce blind spots as much as possible. Then on the weekly meetings, those were something that I I th my dad put in place eighties, nineties, long, long time ago. And you know, it's a it's a it's a funny story. I ⁓ you know, as this business is gr team has grown, ⁓ the f the facilities, right? When we we we moved in we we were in the homestead house until 2017 or 18, and then we built this office. And, you know, I can remember I got involved in those when I was in in college still. Well, even before then when I was working, but we did it in the o in the kitchen of our old office. And, you know, it would be a table like this and there'd be two guys sitting in front and then ten guys around in the room. And when that team started to grow, we ran out of room in there. So we moved into the dining room in the old office. And we had room for about three or four more people in there. And it was when that got too small, that was actually kind of what kicked it out. ⁓ crap, we need a bigger office. And so that was why we built this place. Moved into the conference room downstairs. We outgrew that too. And so now we're upstairs in the old sale facility in the office. but as far as who so what we do is j just deep insight into how that works is six thirty every Monday morning for years and years it was just the ownership group that got together. And you know, from six thirty to seven thirty they talked about business issues, coordination stuff for the week, then they rolled those plans out at seven thirty. Well, when we changed the when we added that middle structure We needed those guys in in that six thirty two. So it grew from the four owners to I think for a while it it was it was six people. It it was John and our feedlot manager at the time. And today I I think we generally have about six to eight, just depending on which partners are around and that kind of thing. And then we actually go from six thirty to seven with that group. And then we bring in a handful more operations leaders from seven to seven thirty just to make sure the decisions there are known by those leaders before we go tell the whole team, right? Because it would suck for Mike Cochera to be the one hearing, all right, hey, look, here's what I gotta have my team do this week at the same time your team hears it. So he knows it before and then he can be and answer those questions because even you can have a really good meeting and at 730 be done at eight. speaker-0: Ready to wear. speaker-1: We actually then after that at after that seven thirty split out into teams and then spend about another fifteen minutes to a half hour digging into like the real operational stuff going on on the Catalops team that week. You know, and the the reason we do that is just the everyone needs to know the high level stuff, but the agronomy guys don't need to waste their time saying, Hey, look, I gotta move bulls from fifty-eight to twenty today. And I need you and you to do that. That's Not necessary for him to know. Absolutely. And it's likewise, you know, we don't need to know which field's gotta be sprayed this week. Right. So, you know, there's there is a division of what you need to know and then whatever you know, what the teams actually hear as well. speaker-0: And and to me it's so wild that that you were a that of course the culture was set clear back when when the family started those meetings. But I've been involved in a lot of organizations that that even corporate level organizations that try and have a 7 30 on a Monday morning meeting that nobody shows up too. Nobody shows up to you. And the buy-in that we get here at Jorgensalanta Cattle to me is just phenomenal that ⁓ most Monday mornings, ninety-five percent of our staff is there at seven thirty. Not not walking in the door at seven thirty. They're sitting there at seven thirty, ready to start a meeting. speaker-1: Yeah, you get a couple guys. Yeah, they'll come rolling in a little late. But I I your your point's exactly right. And I mean we we make that abundantly clear. At no point in time is it ever implied that these are optional. No. These are mandatory meeting, and even if you don't feel like it's worth your time, it absolutely is. Yep. It's absolutely worth your time. The other thing that I don't want to discount is lunch. Yep. speaker-0: But that's speaker-1: And strictly from a business coordination standpoint. I don't want to talk about it as a benefit. I want to talk about what it does for the business. So every Monday through Friday, we do lunch here in the office for our team at noon. Average, there's probably forty people here that come in. We get some folks that don't come in and eat, but there we get forty people that come in and eat. The reason we do it is so they don't gotta drive twenty minutes to winter and then you know that ends up being an hour, hour and a half, and it just kind of blows your whole day up. So we can keep everyone here. Yep. Feed them a good meal. The byproduct of it is you kind of have an impromptu, informal meeting with your team every single day of the week at noon. Right. And so I get to come in and, you know, I'm not operationally involved at all, but I get to talk to Philip for 10 minutes about, you know, whatever stuff is going on. And Philip and John can get together and you know, the the feed team can talk with it, the Catalops team about hey, where we're at on shores and all. It just it serves as this communication point that is kind of forced. Yep. But it ends up, you know, I you allows you to pivot midday. Right. ⁓ and I I I think it's it's a it's a real it's a real meaningful thing. Yep. speaker-0: And and I think to be honest, everybody's just a little bit more loosened up. Yeah. You know, at lunch, you're sitting down to have a meal, you feel more speaker-1: Yeah, it's not quite so sty like you know, not quite such a speaker-0: Feel like you're in a meeting where you have to be prim and proper and so speaker-1: They're they're they're both meaningful. They're both meaningful. But the you know, the the gears the gears really do turn at at that those lunch discussions. Yeah. speaker-0: And and so I think there's gonna be a lot of folks watching, Nick, that are gonna be going, Well, we don't manage a great big team. A and a lot of them it's just a family team. But I'm here to tell you that the smaller team is probably hard to manage than the bigger team. And ⁓ I'd like you to just any words of advice you have, whether it's a forty year old with two kids and one hired man, yeah, making a go with three hundred cows. speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: to a big feedlot out there that happens to catch this managing thirty employees. What would you give them from managing those people to keep everybody happy and to keep your rig rolling their direction you want? speaker-1: Yep. I the number one thing is maybe you don't do Monday meetings, maybe you don't do monthly meetings, but you gotta communicate. You absolutely have to communicate and your team has gotta know what's going on. I'll ⁓ my dad tells this s story better than I will. And you know, I I also want to make it clear, I'm not throwing my uncle or my grandfather under the bus, but my dad was insistent that we have these meetings, and the reason starting back in the early nineties, and the reason was is No one knew what the world was going on. Right? You'd show up to work on Monday and ⁓ all right, here you're doing this today. And all of a sudden at noon, that changes because we gotta get this done. And those things happen, right? But it it was the communication was poor. It was really, really poor. And then, you know, what you'd also get is even then, you know, we had a we we were farming and we had we had this the you know, albeit a lot smaller, bowl operation and cow calf operation. But you'd get this that you know, everyone was on both teams. Right. And you'd get, well, dad would say, Hey, look, I need you in a sprayer today. And then all of a sudden it'd be well, where the hell are you? I need you to help work cows. Right. And then you know it and you just you'd get this this pole across people, and that's not good for anyone. No. And so to me it's about communication. Yep. Right. Things are gonna change, right? Schedules are gonna change. But if if your team knows what's going on, and you've made it clear what you want them to do. I think that's gonna that's gonna get you ninety percent of the way there. Yep. And it doesn't have to be in the structure we do it, right? ⁓ it could be you can meet on Wednesday, whatever. I I don't right. Not gonna every business is different. But you gotta communicate with your team. speaker-0: I will tell you one thing for us when we were little two man team up there was just when you got to the shop at night and you stopped and had a beer together, and I know that sounds ridiculous, but you stopped, you sat on the back of the pickup, drank a beer. Well, by the time that was done, you had talked about everything that got done that day and all of the plans for tomorrow. speaker-1: Maybe even the next day. speaker-0: And and then the next morning there was no need to communicate. Yep. And each one of us just went our separate ways and at the end of the day you found your way back to the shop and away you went again. Yep. So so but I do think it's important to put some structure to that. I I think it's truly important to put some structure to that. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. You know, it's i it's interesting you mentioned that having a beer thing. That was something that was that that really we we did for a lot of years. And that was that was probably one of the one of the downsides of of a growing team is that becomes something that that can't happen anymore. No. Unfortunately. And that and it it it was the same for us. For a lot of years, you know, you'd get done you get done chopping and the whole team got together at the end of the day, had a beer and just talk about how it went, what the plan was for morrow. And it worked really, really well. But that was when there were ten guys. When there when there's forty that that's a totally different scenario, which is which is why we've got to be a little more formal. 'Cause it's it's corporate. I mean, right, wrong or otherwise, this this is a corporate deal here. Right. And and it it it always bugged me because I grew up with that. It was great, but it's just it's a growing pain that we had to deal with. speaker-0: Right. And take the flip side of that coin again, you're encouraging your employees to have a life outside of work. It's probably not always good that every night you sit in the shop for an hour before you go home. speaker-1: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can tell you that my wife didn't appreciate it very much. But you know, there's there's another and I was I was thinking about this last night, you know, knowing that this we were gonna have this conversation this morning, just another piece of advice I would offer is, you know, for anyone in agriculture, right, for a lot of people, this is a primarily it's a lifestyle. Like I got into this because this is what I wanted to do. I wanted to sit on a horse all day. speaker-0: But speaker-1: You know, I wanted to I wanted to run a planner all day, all these things. Don't forget that you're running a business. Right? Yep. And also don't forget that you have a family. And that well, you know, ⁓ not everyone does, but if you got one, you really gotta think about what takes priority there. Cause I think some people, and maybe they're forced into it, maybe they make that choice, but that that that business suffers. And in a lot of cases, that family suffers too, because you want to maintain that lifestyle. Right. What I'm not gonna sit here and say is that, you know, every every business should figure out a way to put a middle management structure in and that every business farm and ranch owner should step away from operations because every business is different. And I think the key there is is what your thoughts are on growth. Right. Man, if you're running those three hundred cows and it's been that way for 10 years and you have no desire to change that, that's that's fine. Yep. But you you don't have to worry about HR. You don't have to worry about planning out your team because you cause you know where you're at. Our business is a lot different. We want to grow. Yep. And we got to a point where we weren't gonna be able to if I didn't step out and Cody didn't step out and Brian didn't and Andy Tagadoff didn't step out of operations. Yep. Not everyone has to get there, but I would really encourage you to think about ⁓ how I'm running this thing and Am I truly getting that family light, that family time? And is my family life the way I want it? Because I can tell you what I think is more important. Right. Right. Absolutely. And and it's it's really important to to get away. To to be able to step away from that business for a minute and be a family. I gotta tell you, and this is maybe I take it to an extreme, but my wife will if she was sitting on this podcast, she would say, I have no idea what's going on over there. It's because I don't, I don't bring it home. I got no desire to bring it home. ⁓ and that's that's I I probably take it to an extreme that's a little bit too far. But I'm also the type of guy generally that jabbering away on this podcast, but I I don't say a lot of words most days, right? So there's a balance there. ⁓ but I you know I've I've said it four times and I'll repeat it. Just don't forget about your family. speaker-0: Yep, yep. Nick Nick's pretty quiet. And and I think for for that statement, there there's ways to be creative out there, guys. And ⁓ some of it is, unfortunately, for those of you that have kids, it's it's what your kids wants are. My dad is Kal Kev veterinarian, did Fort Pier livestock for years and years and years. Fortunately, I wanted to be with him and he was always willing to take me. speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: But that was what we did. We worked cows and worked cows and worked cows and worked more cows. But I wanted to be with my dad and my dad was willing to teach me and have me with him. And that was that was such a blessing. So so I don't think I think you just need to think about how it needs to look for you in your situation. speaker-1: Yep. Yeah. That's a really good point. 'Cause there are a lot of families that bond over over that work. Right. Right. And those those bonds are built standing by the chute together or sitting in the tractor cab together. Yeah. You know, Jamie, that's that's that's one where I'll I'll probably get a little bit I'll get a little deep with you here. So I grew up like I mean so so we had hogs, right? For for years. We got rid of him in I think two thousand three 'cause we were losing money like crazy in that market and we we we dumped the operation. But speaker-0: But your son speaker-1: I grew up and I I'll get this wrong, my dad or my mom could say better, but I was probably in the hog barns when I was eight, nine. And it was a super safe environment because these these sowers were all in crates and I just pushed a cart around and I fed ⁓ I took a hose, I washed crates down, did all this stuff, right? It was it was a blessing for me because it that was probably like one of the safest ways to grow up in a crowd. There was no risk of getting hurt. You know, I wasn't around PTOs, I wasn't around heavy engines. There weren't, you know speaker-0: Me. speaker-1: Totally different scenario with it with cattle in in my opinion. And I, you know, I was I was out stacking bales and I was pretty young. All these things that I got involved with. It's and and a big part of that, you know, I think was that, you know, a lot of times my my my dad was was there. What I struggle with, and this is just me opening up a little bit personally, what I struggle with is now that this team is is so big, there's there's two, there's two parts to it. The first is ⁓ I don't want burden that team. Right. And we were asking you said it earlier. We asked these guys to do a lot of stuff. Yep. And, you know, for me as as the big boss to to to come out to you know, James Nyman and say, James, you're Hayes gonna sit in a feed truck with you today. Yep. Is that really the best thing for James? speaker-0: Right. Is it is it fair to ask that? speaker-1: And yeah, I'm not saying I don't know the answer. Like I I struggle with this every day. I don't know if that's right or not. The other part, and I I I gotta be careful how I say this, but is it the right thing for Hayes to be in with Jam for Hayes' sake? Yep. Got a big team here. Ten, you know, 20 years ago, these guys were all family. Yep. I knew Shane being in like my uncle. Right. Monty Mays was my uncle. And I there was no question whatsoever that I could spend the day with Monty and everything would be fine. Yep. I I don't I don't know James that well. Right. Right. I don't know Mike Kachair that well. ⁓ and so it you know becomes a question as a parent too, like, you know, all right, I I obviously I inherently trust these guys to a degree 'cause they work for me, but do I really want a ten year old or an eight year old with them if if they're busy and that's not their primary focus? Right. So that's that's a balance I always try to strike is h you know, I want to get my kid involved, but how do you do it? I'm just opening up speaker-0: I I think I think it's really fun that you brought that up because the gentleman that I worked for straight out of college had when I got back there was six boys under the age of ten. And you know, I kind of just became family, like you're talking about. And so of course you always had little boys with you. And there was several rules. One of them was you never repeat to your mother what you hear in the hand tractor at midnight. That was not allowed because she would have my hide. Yep. And if there was a day if I was saddling something and there was a job to do and I knew there wasn a chance that it could get pretty hairy, there was a lot of tears, but you weren't saddling coming with me. No. Yeah, I am not your father. I am not gonna be responsible if something happens out here. speaker-1: For sure. And you know, it's it's especially it's it's it's I think it's especially applicable to us because this feedlot's full of bulls. Yeah. And I'm not gonna say that, you know, I I think our our cattle generally have really good disposition, but man, bulls are bulls. Yep. And you know, you don't need a ten year old standing at a gate. Nope. Right? 'Cause that's that's how you get teeth busted out or get your ass thrown in the air. Yep. And you just, you know, it's it's a little different than working around, you know, just cows out of pasture, in my opinion. Having been exposed to it for a lot of years. speaker-0: U adults can get hurt here pretty easy if you're not on your toe. speaker-1: And they Yeah. They do. So, you know, it's just a it's a tough balance, but not everyone's in that situation. Right. Right. And I know a lot of folks that frankly would see that situation and and be totally comfortable with putting their kid there. And I'm not saying anything bad about those folks. It just ain't me. speaker-0: at all. Yeah. Well yeah, and it it it would be different again if you were with them. speaker-1: Yeah. It would be. It'd be totally different. speaker-0: than if you're sending me with them. So so I think that's a really a really unique perspective for a lot of people out there that haven't speaker-1: But I do th it's you know, it's it's important from the standpoint of you know, if if we want these kids to come back to agriculture, they gotta be exposed to it. Right. They they have to be exposed to it. And, you know, I'm here to tell you today I I'm doing a poor job of it with my kids and and you know, I've got a lot of time. But ⁓ you know, it's a risk we run when you insulate ⁓ from that and they don't understand, you know, what we're doing and why we're doing it, ⁓ they're not they're not they won't come back to agriculture. Right. And so I think I do think it's important that, you know, Families do get involved in some way, shape, or form. It's just finding those jobs that are the right ones. Right. You know. Yep. speaker-0: Well, Nick, I've taken up a pile of your time this morning. speaker-1: I could I could I could do this for another hour. speaker-0: ⁓ do you have any any just closing thoughts as far as, you know, we we've talked a lot about how the Jorgensen team manages people. And ⁓ everyone everyone from the office step to the ops team and communication ⁓ is is a critical part of that, especially from the office to the ops team. There's a lot of stuff going on here. ⁓ just just give me some closing thoughts on on managing. This that's well. speaker-1: You know what said a lot of stuff about what we do. And I want to make it clear, like I I don't in any way, shape, or form feel like we're experts right in this. ⁓ we're we're learning all the time. I mean, listen, I don't get me wrong, we got our fair share of of struggles. Yep. But I do think what maybe what maybe differentiates us from from from a counterpart, what whatever counterpart exists, ⁓ is that we are deliberate about it. And I'll go I'll go back to that that comment you made right at the beginning about dealing with it versus living with it. We deal with it to as much of a degree as we possibly can. There there's there aren't a lot of things that that we just live with in this there are some that you just have to. One of ⁓ is just turnover, right? Just as an example. But we try to be proactive. And I think that an Alan Hoyer makes this comment a lot when he meets with us. It's that We're playing from a position of strength. I'm not gonna say we're the best at it. I'm not gonna say we're experts, but we're not bad at it. And when you play from a position a position of strength, it allows you to be offensive. Right. And I I like being in that position more than, you know, a lot of these folks that are on the defensive, like, ⁓ shit, I just I don't have enough help. I can't get all this done. I know it sucks. But if you're really having those conversations with yourself, you should really step back and say, All right, well then I I should do something. Cause I hear people all the time, well, you just can't find folks in egg. I just can't find good help. Right. That is wrong. Yep. You're and I'm I'll be blunt, you're just not working hard enough at it to actually find it. You're not working hard enough at it. And if you can't keep those people, maybe you should step back in in introspectively a little bit and say, How am I running this business that's causing me to not be able to keep people around? Right. Right. Cause if I'm an iron fist guy out there that says, damn it, you're gonna do what I say when I do it. And I don't you'll need to know, you'll know when you need to know it. That ain't gonna last very long for you. Right. Because managing they don't teach it in school and you don't learn it. You you learn it on the fly and you can learn it from the wrong person. You can learn how to do it the wrong way. Yep. And I can tell you for a fact, because I've seen it and I won't point fingers, but I I've I've known a lot of people that have been really bad at it. And it was just how they were taught to do it. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. speaker-1: You can really screw things up. So you you gotta be really introspective in and and think about what you need to do to just ultimately make your life easier. Right. That's yeah that's ⁓ that's But there it's it's the people are the most important thing on our I mean our our without our team we'd be cooked. Yeah. We'd be that we wouldn't be that we wouldn't be having this conversation. Right. ⁓ there wouldn't be six thousand bulls going out, hell there wouldn't be three thousand bowls going out. Right. Far and away the most important thing, but I will also say it's probably the most diff dealing with people is the most difficult and most time consuming thing. And you just you have to be deliberate about it. speaker-0: Well folks, ⁓ what a what a neat episode I think for you guys out there. ⁓ it's just not something we talk about in this industry. Nope. it's it's something everybody and I think Nick you summed it up with the when I said deal with it and you said live with it, I think that is that there's a lot of power there because there's a lot of people just simply living with it. Yep. And I think if you're deliberate, you put structure to it and you deal with it. speaker-1: I agree. We complain about it when speaker-0: You can take that small three man team and and really accomplish great big things all in all in one stroke. ⁓ so with that guys, I'm gonna leave you with an Alan Hoyer quote. ⁓ in the Bible it says, Without vision we shall perish. ⁓ and that that is something that managing people, managing cattle, managing crops, vision is important. You're gonna see that as a theme, guys, in this in this podcast, because when Alan said that, that hit me hard. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ we're we're gonna go to that that vision statement a lot because man, it drives everything that we do. With that, thank you, Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Boston. Behind the production equipment back there, we would be cooked without him because I have not technically seen. No way. And ⁓ we will catch you guys next time. Thanks for tuning in to the source. speaker-1: So thank you, Jamie.