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Best Ever Sand for Sand Tray Therapy! · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy, a weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy to elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas.
• 0:26
  Cathi Spooner: So you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:34
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:48
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there, good morning, good morning, good morning.
• 0:51
  Cathi Spooner: It's morning here in the United States.
• 0:53
  Cathi Spooner: Good afternoon to you if you're outside of the United States.
• 0:58
  Cathi Spooner: So today is Thursday.
• 1:00
  Cathi Spooner: I usually go live on Wednesday, but I was having air conditioning put in yesterday, so I I decided it would be better to wait another day to go live and I'm really excited today because I have some guests for Jurassic Sand to talk about their sand.
• 1:23
  Cathi Spooner: If you are interested in doing sand tray.
• 1:27
  Cathi Spooner: If you're already doing sand tray therapy with your clients, you may or may not have experienced the torture of dusty sand.
• 1:39
  Cathi Spooner: So today I invited, um, Mary and John from Jurassic sand to talk about their sand and how it is Well, in my opinion, it's more beneficial because it's not dusty, so I invited them on to talk a little bit about their sand.
• 2:00
  Cathi Spooner: So that is today's episode, talking about, uh, my favorite sand to use in sand tray therapy that is not dusty.
• 2:12
  Cathi Spooner: So let me bring them on and introduce them for today.
• 2:17
  Cathi Spooner: Hey, Mary and John.
• 2:20
  John: Hi.
• 2:20
  Mary: Good morning Cathi.
• 2:21
  John: Thanks for having us on.
• 2:23
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I'm excited to have you.
• 2:25
  Cathi Spooner: Very excited to have you.
• 2:27
  Cathi Spooner: I love jurassic sand.
• 2:29
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and have probably almost every sand that you have.
• 2:34
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and they're all phenomenal.
• 2:37
  Cathi Spooner: So I thought maybe, um, so if, uh, if anyone, anyone is joining us live, go ahead and post your name in the comments.
• 2:47
  Cathi Spooner: If you have questions for Mary and John about their sand, that would be awesome.
• 2:53
  Cathi Spooner: Post those in the questions.
• 2:55
  Cathi Spooner: And for those of you who stay to the end of the broadcast, even on the live, I'm sorry, even on the replay, there is a, uh, surprise at the end special gift.
• 3:09
  Cathi Spooner: So, alrighty.
• 3:10
  Cathi Spooner: So post your name in the comments, ask any questions.
• 3:15
  Cathi Spooner: Also, if you're watching on the replay, you can always ask question as well because I can always reach out to, um, Mary and ask her and she'll give me an answer right away.
• 3:26
  Cathi Spooner: So, all right.
• 3:27
  Cathi Spooner: So do you, can you guys, tell us about your sand and what makes it not dusty.
• 3:35
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe a little bit about Jurassic sand.
• 3:37
  Cathi Spooner: That would be awesome.
• 3:39
  Mary: Okay.
• 3:39
  Mary: Well, the main point about Jurassic sand is that it's natural and it's made basically, it's a desert sand, so it's just made from the wind blown and, um, that's compared to a lot of the manufactured sands that you can get in, um, home improvement stores and things, where it's, um, made from crushed rock and pulverized rock down to a certain size.
• 4:05
  Mary: So our sands, the grains are more rounder usually and smoother because they've just been blown in the wind.
• 4:11
  Mary: So long.
• 4:12
  Mary: What about
• 4:13
  John: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 4:14
  John: The all natural part of our sand is definitely what makes it no dust.
• 4:19
  John: And, um, when you excavate sand from the earth and then pulverize it to a certain grain size, that's going to cause a lot of dust, and it's also going to cause a lot of sharper angles on the grains.
• 4:32
  John: All of our sand has really smooth round grains.
• 4:34
  John: And so that also leads to less dust.
• 4:37
  Cathi Spooner: Well, that answers my, I've always been so curious how you got your sand so smooth.
• 4:44
  Cathi Spooner: That's especially the garnet sand.
• 4:47
  Cathi Spooner: I didn't realize it was more of the windblown debris.
• 4:52
  Cathi Spooner: That's pretty cool.
• 4:54
  Cathi Spooner: And you know what?
• 4:55
  Cathi Spooner: That's one of the things that I really like about your sand is because it is natural.
• 5:01
  Cathi Spooner: And as a sand therapist, like someone who uses Sand tray therapy with children, adolescents, and adults and we're adding all those miniatures and you can see all my miniatures in the background, it feels to me like it's more grounded because it, uh, okay this is totally going to sound nerdy but you guys will get it.
• 5:22
  Cathi Spooner: It's more natural and it feels like it's more grounded to the earth and I don't know it just feels more powerful as a sand tray therapist to me.
• 5:34
  Cathi Spooner: I love that part about your sand and there's different textures to them too.
• 5:40
  Cathi Spooner: And I love that.
• 5:43
  Mary: Yeah.
• 5:44
  John: Definitely.
• 5:45
  John: And we have different grain sizes, which leads to those different textures.
• 5:49
  John: And so that's a lot of, a lot of play therapists like having different textures and different feels on their sands.
• 5:56
  John: Um, it's not always about the color or the aesthetics of the sand, but it is a lot about what they want to use the sand for in different grain sizes, really.
• 6:07
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 6:08
  Cathi Spooner: How do you get it to be not dusty?
• 6:13
  John: So, that's really done by nature.
• 6:15
  John: And so, when it's been blown around for millions of years, and then when we go get it, we get it to be not dusty, um, right when we get it from the earth, and so.
• 6:28
  Mary: Right, but, but to clarify, in some of the garnet sands, we, we do have to wash those.
• 6:33
  Mary: Right.
• 6:34
  Mary: Because they don't, um, it's just not the same kind of deposit where they're from, but, um, we do do a, a washing, but, um, some of it is just screening too, just, just to make sure, because it is all natural, you know, you don't want to get a scorpion in your sand or something
• 6:54
  Cathi Spooner: And I'm from the east coast.
• 6:56
  Cathi Spooner: So I, I never, we moved here five years ago to the West Coast because I live in Southern Nevada.
• 7:02
  Cathi Spooner: We never had scorpions.
• 7:04
  Cathi Spooner: And then we moved out here.
• 7:05
  Cathi Spooner: I'm like, Oh, I don't really like scorpions.
• 7:09
  Cathi Spooner: And I never thought about having scorpions in my sand.
• 7:12
  Cathi Spooner: But that's the thing.
• 7:14
  Mary: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Mary: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Mary: It is from the desert.
• 7:16
  Mary: So, yeah.
• 7:17
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 7:18
  John: And yeah, we definitely, uh, ensure that all our sand is not dusty.
• 7:23
  John: When we're, when we're getting the sand, when we're cleaning it, we definitely do the eyeball test and make sure there's no nuisance dust or anything like that.
• 7:32
  Cathi Spooner: And no scorpions.
• 7:33
  John: Yeah.
• 7:33
  John: Make sure no scorpions.
• 7:35
  Cathi Spooner: That'd be funny.
• 7:37
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 7:38
  Cathi Spooner: So do you want to, um, Do you want to tell us a little bit about your sand?
• 7:42
  Cathi Spooner: And I know, um, John, you have some samples there and I can add your phone whenever you're ready.
• 7:51
  Cathi Spooner: And so for those of you that are watching, um, John and Mary have some samples about their sand and then John's going to use his camera so he can show you a little bit about the sand.
• 8:02
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're watching, If you're watching live and you have questions about the sand, go ahead and post those in the comments and then we can answer those.
• 8:13
  Cathi Spooner: If you have questions after the broadcast, if you're watching in the replay, feel free to post those questions and I can always get back to about those.
• 8:24
  Cathi Spooner: Alrighty.
• 8:25
  Cathi Spooner: Let me add John's phone.
• 8:28
  Cathi Spooner: Okay, I'm totally nerding out because I, I love their sand.
• 8:33
  John: Yeah, definitely.
• 8:34
  John: And you can see all the different colors, but beyond that, the different grain sizes.
• 8:40
  John: So, yeah, yeah.
• 8:42
  John: If you rake through this, this is our original Jurassic.
• 8:45
  John: It's a lot finer than, say, our deep purple here, which is a garnet.
• 8:51
  John: And so these have much bigger grain sizes.
• 8:55
  John: And so that's a big draw for play therapists is the different grain sizes and what you can do with that.
• 9:01
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, and you know it's interesting too because I know you guys don't do the the black volcanic sand anymore, but for me that garnet sand, especially the coarse grain, Um, kind of, kind of filled that, I'll call it a void because it's really, really dark and the grains are really, uh, more coarse and thick like that volcanic sand was.
• 9:30
  Cathi Spooner: And I loved that volcanic sand.
• 9:33
  Mary: The grains are more angular.
• 9:35
  Mary: Sure.
• 9:35
  Mary: We have one that's a little coarser called Riverbed.
• 9:38
  Cathi Spooner: Yes, that was cool too.
• 9:41
  John: And yeah, we've gotten a lot of positive feedback about people liking the riverbed for wet trays.
• 9:48
  John: So when they get it wet, they actually really like the riverbed sand for play therapy.
• 9:53
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, that's interesting.
• 9:54
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, because I was going to ask you which of those Which of those can get, some of them can get wet, and some of them cannot get wet, right?
• 10:04
  Mary: All of the sands can get wet, but we do have a lighter weight, um, one we call kknot sand, if you want to show that.
• 10:11
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, the knot, yes.
• 10:13
  Mary: And that's actually not a sand, it's made from the interior of corn cobs, and so that one is, um, crushed corn cobs, like it's, made from that.
• 10:24
  Mary: But we have it as an option because some people need to something lighter.
• 10:28
  Mary: And so, like, if you say you're you have 50 pounds of sand in your sand tray, well, you can't really carry that around.
• 10:35
  Mary: It's too heavy.
• 10:36
  Mary: But the equivalent amount of knot sand only weighs 16 pounds.
• 10:40
  Mary: So if you say you're traveling to a client doing an in home Session, you can carry a tray of that in.
• 10:48
  Cathi Spooner: And did you find, I thought I remembered, um, the knot sand was good for kids who have sensory issues like they do they, they don't because sometimes like with kids with sensory processing, especially the tactile, sometimes different textures in the sand will be unbearable.
• 11:10
  Cathi Spooner: Have you had, I'll tell you that experience with the knot sand?
• 11:15
  Mary: Yeah, I've, I've heard from just a couple, um, teachers about that and they say some, um, some like maybe special education kids like say the knot sand or like the riverbed sand because it's, um, rougher and they can feel it versus say our original, which is very smooth.
• 11:33
  Mary: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Mary: And that and so, but I think different children have different preferences too about like what fingers to feel and yeah, I just don't like the feel of the really smooth and others do
• 11:45
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 11:48
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, because i've i've had people ask me in sand tray trainings that I do if I, they'll ask me about using rice and things like that.
• 11:58
  Cathi Spooner: And I always kind of showed them the, the knot sand if they brought kids who were looking for, you know, cause sometimes the preschools will use the rice instead of the sand.
• 12:12
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Cathi Spooner: And that, uh, the sparkly white one.
• 12:19
  John: Oh yeah.
• 12:20
  Cathi Spooner: Stardust.
• 12:22
  John: One's really cool.
• 12:23
  John: It's pretty much like a water.
• 12:26
  John: When you have it in a bag and you move it around, it's very liquid like, and you can see just how round the particles are, the grains of sand.
• 12:35
  John: So, it's pretty cool.
• 12:37
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 12:38
  Cathi Spooner: And what is that one made out of?
• 12:42
  Mary: Um, all of the sand, you know, is sand, which is quartz, which is silica.
• 12:48
  Mary: That's what sand is.
• 12:50
  Mary: And that one's, um, I'm not exactly sure where we get that.
• 13:00
  Mary: They're all from the desert Southwest.
• 13:01
  Mary: It's just, um, this is one that actually is, um, just very smooth and very slippery.
• 13:08
  Mary: So you have to be careful if you spill it.
• 13:10
  Cathi Spooner: Yes, it is very slippy slidey.
• 13:12
  Cathi Spooner: And I'll an interesting thing about that sand.
• 13:16
  Cathi Spooner: I, I had a, um, a kid that I was working with a child, uh, male, and he, that was for, he had a lot of anxiety.
• 13:27
  Cathi Spooner: That sand was so soothing for him.
• 13:30
  Cathi Spooner: Like if we had to talk about difficult things, I would get out.
• 13:34
  Cathi Spooner: I would, I would make a little.
• 13:36
  Cathi Spooner: Cause I had some small sandboxes as well that I used for training, but I brought one in for him so that when we were talking, I filled it up with some of that, uh, stardust.
• 13:48
  Cathi Spooner: And he would, he would use that as his self soothe while we talked, cause he was older.
• 13:55
  Cathi Spooner: While we talked about some of the things he was worried about.
• 13:59
  Cathi Spooner: And his mom got him some of that sand So he can have some at home.
• 14:09
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 14:11
  Cathi Spooner: It's very slippy slidey though.
• 14:16
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Cathi Spooner: When I do sand training in person sand trainings and I have that one available for people to use.
• 14:24
  Cathi Spooner: So when I do the in person I'll have all your sand in different sand trays and people get to use.
• 14:30
  Cathi Spooner: different sand trays with the different sand.
• 14:32
  Cathi Spooner: And that was very popular.
• 14:39
  Mary: So one question we get a lot is about cleaning the sand and how to keep it clean, especially now with the pandemic.
• 14:50
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 14:50
  Cathi Spooner: So how do you guys have suggestions about cleaning the sand.
• 14:57
  Mary: Um, yeah, well, so there's different, there's different kind of levels of, of clean.
• 15:02
  Mary: And so one option would be, um, you know, to screen it, like if you're just trying to get twigs or debris out of it, but usually your sand trays are indoors so you're not worried about that as much, you know, so so the easiest option is just to screen it to get debris out.
• 15:18
  Mary: But then to actually like disinfect it or sanitize it um There's different things you can do one option is to use the spray bottle of like nine parts water one part bleach.
• 15:30
  Mary: And you can spray it and get it moist And, um, you know, kind of move it around, spray it, get a good covering.
• 15:36
  Mary: So it's moist and you let it sit for like a minute and then you just let it dry and it'll be, um, and that's disinfecting.
• 15:43
  John: Yeah, that's sanitizing.
• 15:48
  John: And then another option is Lysol.
• 15:50
  John: You spray it.
• 15:51
  John: But the, the trick is with those disinfecting and sanitizing is the idea is to get every grain of sand.
• 15:58
  John: And so it's really tough when there's hundreds and hundreds of thousands, millions of sand.
• 16:04
  John: So you, you're not going to get every grain.
• 16:06
  John: So really the best way to keep your sand clean if you're doing sand tray is to make sure you and your client wash your hands thoroughly before you touch the sand.
• 16:16
  John: Because that's going to ultimately keep it the most clean.
• 16:19
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:20
  Cathi Spooner: And I'll usually have, um, I'll usually, we have a lot of, um, of those hand sanitizer disinfectant all around our office.
• 16:32
  Cathi Spooner: And I always have them use that before we go in and they have to do that after we leave.
• 16:39
  Cathi Spooner: Sometimes with the different sand because some of it kind of sticks to their hands a tiny bit.
• 16:44
  Cathi Spooner: So sometimes they'll wash their hands, but I, here's one of the things I learned a long time ago at a sand tray training for, um, the, for a therapist is really, you don't want to wash your figures in the sink because then the sand will collect at that little U so I always suggest that people keep like a bucket of water and then do it and wash their figures in the bucket of water, which you can put bleach in there too.
• 17:22
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and then Or have a bucket of water nearby and the kids can wash their hands in the bucket, not with bleach in it, but just so that the, their sinks don't get clogged up with sand.
• 17:37
  John: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Mary: Oh, that's a good idea.
• 17:39
  John: Yeah.
• 17:41
  John: And then another way to actually sterilize the sand is to put it on like a cookie sheet and put it in the oven and turn the oven up to 200 degrees Fahrenheit.
• 17:51
  John: And then put it in there for four hours, let it sit overnight.
• 17:54
  John: So it cools.
• 17:55
  John: And then when you wake up in the morning, you'll have warm sand, that's been sterilized.
• 18:00
  John: And so that's a good option.
• 18:02
  John: And so with, with those cleaning techniques, we often get asked, you know, how often should I replace my sand?
• 18:09
  John: And we always tell them never.
• 18:11
  John: Our sand lasts forever.
• 18:12
  Mary: So if the sand is non porous, non permeable, so the sand will last forever.
• 18:18
  Mary: Where, where the danger comes in is, we actually even had one, um, preschool call us because a child, they were standing around the sensory table, and a child, you know, they were, What?
• 18:31
  Mary: And we actually explained to them how to clean it and that the sand is fine.
• 18:35
  Mary: You just need to get the other debris out of there.
• 18:38
  Mary: And in that case, we had them put it in a big, um, garbage can, a big garbage can, and put a hose down in the bottom.
• 18:45
  Mary: And so everything came up in the water and they could just spill the, the dirty water off the top.
• 18:51
  Mary: And then spread the sand out, like on a sheet in the sun and let it dry.
• 18:56
  Mary: And it was, you know, good as new.
• 18:58
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, that's a great point.
• 19:00
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Cathi Spooner: I could just imagine if my son saw that when he was little, they're grown now.
• 19:07
  Cathi Spooner: Never touch it again.
• 19:11
  Cathi Spooner: You know, that's true because when I, I, uh, I, I got your, Originally I got Jurassic sand 'cause I was so tired of the dust.
• 19:22
  Cathi Spooner: I tried the cheaper options.
• 19:24
  Cathi Spooner: But when you're working with children and they sift and they pour, it's like this cloud of dust that rises and it is torture.
• 19:35
  Cathi Spooner: So I decided, you know what?
• 19:37
  Cathi Spooner: Gonna order the sand.
• 19:39
  Cathi Spooner: I've had your sand.
• 19:41
  Cathi Spooner: Um, when did I get it?
• 19:43
  Cathi Spooner: Like 2000, probably 2004.
• 19:46
  Cathi Spooner: Is when I when I ordered and I it was funny because it was your original sand.
• 19:51
  Cathi Spooner: So it's the orange one.
• 19:54
  Cathi Spooner: And I I have like yeah that one, it's that one which is very soft and silky um And so, you know, I lived on the East Coast, so I was in Virginia.
• 20:08
  Cathi Spooner: I didn't know how you got this awesome sand with these weird colors, because I'd never seen sand like that.
• 20:13
  Cathi Spooner: Like, sand doesn't come in that color from the East Coast.
• 20:17
  Cathi Spooner: Anyway, so we moved here, and I moved to Southern Nevada, and I worked over there in Southern.
• 20:24
  Cathi Spooner: Utah and I went to Sand Hollow and I thought to where I was like, Oh my gosh, real color, real color sand mesmerized, but that's actually a real color sand.
• 20:41
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 20:41
  Cathi Spooner: And then there's a pink coral.
• 20:44
  Cathi Spooner: What is that?
• 20:44
  Cathi Spooner: Coral pink.
• 20:46
  Cathi Spooner: That's my other, yeah, um, state park.
• 20:50
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, so that's my other destination to go and see that other state park where they have these colors.
• 20:58
  Cathi Spooner: But I mean, who knew you have like those, those colored sands and you have the do you still have the golden cambria because I thought I saw it in there so if people want more of like a beach beach vibe that was a nice one to get and my other favorite that you have and again I did not know this was real sand because now I live in the Mojave Desert and we went I took a drive over to um Lake uh Valley of Fire And in Valley of Fire, they had that Mojave sand color.
• 21:33
  Cathi Spooner: And I remember looking at it thinking, yeah, that I love that one.
• 21:36
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 21:37
  Cathi Spooner: I remember looking at it thinking, that's a real color.
• 21:42
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 21:44
  Mary: That one's really smooth too.
• 21:45
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Cathi Spooner: That one's really smooth and it's got this really.
• 21:51
  Cathi Spooner: So that, that beach sand really gives you the beach vibe.
• 21:56
  Cathi Spooner: And then this is my experience with it.
• 21:58
  Cathi Spooner: And the Mojave sand is got this when, and when, cause I've, when I use these at the sand trainings, people use it different sands.
• 22:08
  Cathi Spooner: And it's always interesting to me when they create their sand tray at the trainings, how much they, seem different in the different sand so I get asked that question all the time.
• 22:22
  Cathi Spooner: Does color make a difference?
• 22:24
  Cathi Spooner: And i'll say well yes, and no, it really depends on who's ever creating the sand But it does I think with the texture and the color a little bit gives it really a different experience.
• 22:40
  Cathi Spooner: So people will ask me all the time, you know, should you, you know, have more than one sand tray or different sand?
• 22:49
  Cathi Spooner: And ideally, I think that's awesome.
• 22:53
  Cathi Spooner: If you can offer more sand experiences, because it's always interesting to see what people do with it and the, um, different kind of sand trays and their experience in those sand trays.
• 23:08
  Cathi Spooner: And, uh, if that's the case, though, I always tell people you have to come up with some kind of, um, You have to come up with some kinds of rules because when they use one sand figure and then they put it in the other sand, then you get these hybrid mixed sand trays, which drives me crazy.
• 23:27
  Cathi Spooner: It's kind of like letting people mix your Play Doh and your Play Doh.
• 23:33
  Cathi Spooner: That is not a thing.
• 23:34
  Cathi Spooner: That's a rule.
• 23:35
  Cathi Spooner: No mixing Play Doh.
• 23:36
  Cathi Spooner: So in the playroom, cause I have different sand.
• 23:39
  Cathi Spooner: That's my rule.
• 23:40
  Cathi Spooner: You can't, you have to give me your figures.
• 23:42
  Cathi Spooner: And is that, yeah.
• 23:45
  Cathi Spooner: You know, that's my way of doing it.
• 23:47
  Cathi Spooner: Well, thank you for being on today.
• 23:50
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and for any of you interested, I do have, um, if you're interested in learning more about play therapy or expressive arts, I have some trainings coming up, I do have some sand tray trainings.
• 24:07
  Cathi Spooner: I have an online supervision group.
• 24:09
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested in that.
• 24:12
  Cathi Spooner: Um, if you're interested in the sand tray trainings, you can also go to my website and I will post, I'll post the link for the discount code.
• 24:24
  Cathi Spooner: I'll also post a link.
• 24:26
  Cathi Spooner: I have a free pdf for must have sand tray therapy.
• 24:33
  Cathi Spooner: So I'll post that for anyone interested in that free PDF.
• 24:37
  Cathi Spooner: And thank you so much for joining us.
• 24:41
  Cathi Spooner: All right.
• 24:44
  Cathi Spooner: Bye for now.
• 24:46
  Cathi Spooner: See you later.
• 24:54
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 24:58
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gain new insights and ideas to support your work, helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 25:10
  Cathi Spooner: Sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 25:13
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 25:19
  Cathi Spooner: Remember play therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth, whether you're a new play therapist or experienced.
• 25:26
  Cathi Spooner: I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work and relationships.
• 25:35
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topic suggestions for future episodes, I'd love to hear from you.
• 25:42
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 25:54
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 25:58
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning, and growing.