Latest / Exit Algorithms / The New SEO: How to Rank in ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity with Chris Panteli (#73)
Transcript
- Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Welcome to Exit Algorithms, the podcast where we decode what it really takes to unlock growth, streamline operations, and prepare your business for a high value exit. I'm your host, Pete Vera, and today I'm joined by Chris Pantelli. He's a founding partner at Linkify, now one of the world's largest and most successful PR agencies. He's also most recently launched Total Authority. a platform helping companies get discovered inside AI powered search engines. Chris, thanks for coming on the show today. I'm excited for this. Chris Panteli: Thank you, Pete. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's excited to be here. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Absolutely. Yeah. Can you start off and share a bit about your background, your professional life and business journey and what led you to Linkify? Chris Panteli: Yeah, so we started Linkify about five or six years ago now. I was running a fish and chip shop at the time. So straight after university, I got a degree in economics and then did what all sort of half Greek, Cypriot, English people do, took over the family business of fish and chips. I was doing that for like a decade and then started to see the industry change. Got like itchy fingers, wanted to do something different, was looking online and saw these... businesses making money online. So I thought I could do that. Started a personal finance website that started making like a thousand dollars a month, like quite quickly. And I realized that like an important part of that was getting backlinks. And then I came across a strategy of how to get the best backlinks in the world, which was like earned media links. And I could pitch journalists and get featured in publications. I did that and managed to get myself quoted and my site linked on places like the New York Times and Forbes. And that's when I came across my now business partner who had seen my link profile and said, right, these are amazing. Like, how did you get these? Do you think you could do that for some of my clients? I said, I don't see why not. And then Linkify was organically born from there. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, awesome. Fish and chips. Man, that's my favorite meal. It is, Yeah, it's actually pretty good over here down south. I'm impressed. ⁓ The southern deep fried style is good. But I lived in Europe several years, so I had my fair share. Chris Panteli: Mm-hmm. No, really? There you go. Do you get it much where you are? Yeah? Mmm. You're fair, yeah that's good. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: That's awesome. Do you find it helpful to have that background in a different industry like food? Has that translated into your later business life with Linkify? Chris Panteli: Yeah, I think so. ⁓ It's very different in terms of marketing, like marketing from like a fixed location. Position is really hard. like you have to get scrappy, which I suppose is a skill set which translated. ⁓ Also, you have to be extremely economical and ⁓ conscious of costs and margins. So you get much better margins in the online world or you can do if you you focus on that and you have the whole world as your potential customer as opposed to just that like small radius around where your restaurant is. So yeah, I think there's things that definitely helped. I think the most important thing is for me was just motivationally to go from, at the time that I sold the business and got out, I'd been diagnosed with type one diabetes as well, which is one of the reasons I was looking for something else to do. I didn't think I could spend the next decade on my feet for like 14 hours a day whilst having to like manage my sugars. I thought it's gonna be easier to be sat down at a laptop. So yeah, I'm grateful that everything coincided and gave me the ability to do that. Yeah, so I've always got this sense of gratitude whilst running Linkify. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, oh, that's awesome. I think it's helpful to have a more holistic viewpoint too, from brick and mortar to not helping companies online. So can you explain a little bit more about backlinks and is that the inspiration for the name, Linkify? Chris Panteli: Mm. Hmm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. So, mean, backlinks are one of the, or if not potentially the most important part of the Google algorithm in order for your site to appear higher up in the search results. So pre-AI Google was the undisputed king of discovery online ⁓ and people could find your business by searching for keywords in Google. And then if you appeared in spot one or spot two or spot three on that lucrative page one, then you would get free traffic to your website. People would buy your products and services and you'd make lots of money. So people want to be on page one. The joke is that if you want to murder someone and bury and hide a dead body, you hide it on page two of Google because nobody goes to page two. It's like you want to be on page one. So the The Google algorithm historically has been sort of two parts. One is content, know, good content and enough content and relevant content. And then the other part of that algorithm is backlinks. And backlinks are Google's patented way to determine how they can trust websites. So it's sort of like an algorithmic voting system. If a more authoritative or trusted site like the BBC or Forbes or the New York Times, if a site like that is giving you a backlink, so a hyperlink back to your site, it means that they trust your website. They're sending that trust, or Google's patented term is page rank, and the more of that page rank that is sent to your website, the more trusted your website is in Google's eyes, and the higher up that they will rank you. That's the short and tall of it. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Okay, and that's the strategy there. What are some things that you consult with businesses on? How do you businesses get listed on some of those big name websites? Chris Panteli: Well, there's a whole host of backlink strategies. You can outright buy them, which is against Google's terms of service. there's whole industries which just exist to sell backlinks. So they'll create sites and then sell links from those sites. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes Google will identify this and give a manual action. You can earn links just completely naturally. I don't know, Ed Sheeran released a new album, then people or tour dates, then websites are gonna link to that because it's newsworthy and they're gonna say you can find out where his tour dates are here at his website and they'll get a link. You can like outreach other websites and ask them to feature you. So there's a whole host of different strategies. The strategy that we do is the safest, which is digital PR, so earned media. So rather than buying a link or going about in like a nefarious way, you are trying to get... the media, the news, journalists to quote you in their article and then hopefully by way of attribution they will link back to your website as well. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Okay, yeah, I was gonna ask too, say you take on a new client, what are some of the first things you do on board and then what are you auditing and looking for to drive growth? Chris Panteli: So they'll come to us normally it will be because they want to incorporate this sort of link building into their existing strategy. They will be producing content, they may have other types of link building activities that they're engaged with, but what they really want is to build brand for their business, build that visible brand by having their business associated with much larger and trusted publishers and organizations. So the strategy is always to get them in the highest, most well-respected publications of all time. And the way that we do that is position the founder, find somebody that has relevant niche credential expertise that represents the business. So this can be easy in certain industries. For example, if a law firm comes to us, then the founder who is a lawyer is the obvious choice to be the spokesperson for that business. And that makes sense because they can expertly talk to the media about all things related to law. can be a bit trickier if it's a more niche specific business, but then there's still ways to position an expert that makes sense to be forward-facing to the media in order to try and earn that ⁓ tier one coverage. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, ⁓ that's awesome. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see business making when trying to build authority and visibility online? Chris Panteli: Hands down, the biggest mistake I see is that businesses don't think that they can do this and therefore they just ignore it. Like, there are so many opportunities, especially when you have forward-facing founders, and this is another mistake they make, they don't put their founders forward, they don't start building brand to people within the business as well as to the business. And I think this is the biggest shift that we're going to see now with AI search as well. And you can see this now. We've been running some tests recently where if you go inside of some of the LLMs like ChatGPT and you ask a question about things like, let's say facial peels or like a health sort of treatment, if you're going to engage in that conversation with ChatGPT, I'm looking to do a facial peel in this particular area. ChatGPT isn't just recommending clinics that it thinks it can trust. It's recommended specific doctors that are known to be good at that particular treatment and therefore the clinic that that doctor works at. So if you're a med spa or a health clinic and you want to do well and be surface inside of LLMs, you can't just have sort of no-face entities working within the business. They need to build personal brands as well inside of the business to be recommended. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, interesting. think that not a lot of businesses think about it in those terms. Chris Panteli: And it's like, ⁓ my God, how much more work is there to do? There's already a lot of work to do, but it's gonna be what sets you apart for years to come. And the people that start doing this now are the ones that are gonna succeed. And it's there to do as well, especially in like PR friendly niches. If you're in like a home service, professional services, like there is always journalists looking to include those expertise within their article. So if you can send authority and trust to people. within your business and have them as like public known figures within your business, then your business will do better for it. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: And you mean within your business as in like voices in the industry or do Chris Panteli: like actual people that are working in the service. If you're a law firm, the lawyers in the business. If you're a med spa, the doctors in the business. If you're like a startup and you've got, you know, founders in there, let's say you're an energy tech startup, then you want to have like what the founder who's like an ⁓ energy expert being forward-facing and engaging with the media. So a recent example, we've got a really large company in the UK, ⁓ retail electronics company called Curry's. And the founder, recently left. The CEO recently left the company and the share price tanked. And the reason was because he was intrinsically tied to the authority of that business. So this is actually a risk that you can do. A risk is where you put all of your eggs in one basket. So because he was like the face and life and soul of this huge, you know, multi-million dollar company, when he left, it was like, well, you know, who else is... going to be the forward-facing person for this business. So you need to have personal brands inside a business and not have it all concentrated in one or two people. Have it spread out across all of the key people inside your business. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, oh, really interesting. That's a good takeaway. Yeah, how, and we're gonna, I would love to shift and talk a little bit about AI search and how's that affecting people's visibility online and how has the strategy shifted even within the last 12 months? Chris Panteli: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's so fast moving and anyone that I think that says they've got the answer is probably being disingenuous because it's like, you know, it's changing every 30 seconds, but yeah, it is. It's completely shifting. think we're seeing things that zero clicks go up and up and up. So you used to be able to go onto Google. You would search for something. Maybe you would click on multiple different links. You would go in. I actually had a really good conversation with someone a month or so ago where they were. talking about how us, our age, our generation, the kids of today will never know this, but we got good at Googling. Like, if you wanted to find something, it was like, okay, I need to find this information. I need to figure out how I'm gonna structure this in Google. And we got good at Googling. We got good at like, I need to find this website, I need to find this person, I can't remember what they did. I know a couple of things, like you put these words in and you become a good Googler. Now you can just go inside of an LLM and ask the most convoluted, question and the chances are you'll get like, you know, the correct answer back. So people are discovering information in a completely different way. They are not using very, very short, high intent keywords necessarily, you know, best law firm in Dallas, Texas. They might be inside of chat GPT. They might be inside of Claude. They might be inside of perplexity. They might say, I recently had a car accident. I wasn't you know, very affected, wasn't really an injury, it just sort of bumped me, but I'm not sure, like, is there something I should be doing here, like, to get some compensation? They might not even know, and that's like, that is so top of funnel compared to law firm Dallas, Texas. But this journey that they start on inside of the LLM may lead them to a, based on everything that you've said, I highly recommend that you visit a personal injury law firm. ⁓ TrackGPT will know that they're in Dallas, Texas, likely because of that saved memory, and then it's going to recommend one, two, three, four firms. So how do you become that recommended firm? We have to understand the difference in how those people are going to potentially get to you. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, ⁓ fascinating. And that's a great example. Yeah, because you can give it more context and then it'll give you a hyper-specific answer. What are some strategies you recommend businesses do to try to optimize for that type of search? Chris Panteli: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So I think a really important thing first of all is to understand your ICP. Really know your customer and then start to synthetically create those potential query fan out queries that people will make. So if you are a company that sells running shoes, let's say, and you sell lots of different type of running shoes, like men's running shoes, women's running shoes, children's running shoes, running shoes for people with flat feet, running shoes for people with wide feet. You're gonna have your sort of classic Google keywords that you want people to hit those core landing pages. But outside of that, LLMs, they're making what we do call a query fan out. So they will query around that in firstly, in a way that it thinks is best to do, and then also potentially on a personalized level. So if ChatGPT, if your personalized chat, Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Hmm. Chris Panteli: chat GPT knows that you are, let's say, ⁓ overweight, ⁓ then the chat GPT may, when you search for running shoes or men's running shoes, it knows you're overweight, so maybe it's going to add that to part of that, way that it query fan-outs that search. It's going to search for men's running shoes, men's running shoes for people that are overweight, and men's running shoes ⁓ top-rated, let's say. It's going to make two or three ⁓ searches that are fanned out from the original So to have this sort of understanding of that, I think is important because that's the sort of content that you need to produce and have on your website. And then the other strategy then is go and look at what chat GPT is determining to be a valid source for its decision making. And it will show you this in its sources. So it shows you where it's gone. So if you're a law firm, operating in Texas and you think potentially people could be searching for ⁓ a divorce lawyer, Texas. If you search in ChatGPT right now, best divorce lawyer, Texas, you will then see a list of sources and it will tell you the websites that it has gone to in order to extrapolate that information and then give it back to the user. So if it has gone to ⁓ three law directories, let's say, I don't know, Texas lawyers, lawdirectory.com, maybe it's gone to Forbes, best lawyers in Texas, and maybe it's gone to a Reddit thread, subreddit-texaslawyers. There's four places there that you need to try and also be in because that's where the information is coming from. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, wow, yeah, that's a great tip right there. ⁓ Yeah, looking at what AI is looking at. Wow, yeah, and I imagine it makes SEO so much more complicated now, right? With that query fan out, there could be 100 terms instead of just the few that may have, like how has strategy shifted around SEO? Chris Panteli: Again, is hard. mean, it's tricky to say Google just released in the last couple of days its documentation around what it suggests is You should be doing for AI visibility within Google's, know AI ecosystem It's saying the AI SEO is just SEO but Google lies about everything So it's tricky to know exactly what what to do. But in terms of what it's saying in its documentation It doesn't want to see you get like inauthentic mentions across the web, is the same as it's saying, you know, don't go and get dodgy paid backlinks. It's saying that certain things are hyped, like these LLMS.text documents are potentially not necessary. And then it's also talking about still producing meaningful content for the users and looking at these broader potential search queries. But again, you need to see what's working, where your traffic's coming from. So I think tracking is important, but tracking is difficult. ⁓ A good strategy is to be doing content, good content, being in the places that you think your customers are, answering lots and lots of questions around the things that you do, making sure that your information on your website is readable. ⁓ It doesn't need to be chunked. This was one thing that came out, like everyone saying, ⁓ you need to chunk your content. You don't necessarily need to chunk it, but it needs to be... readable. Yeah, and so we have a good SEO strategy and do brand building alongside that. I think is the SEO 2.0 for 2026 and beyond. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, got it. It makes perfect sense. You mentioned meaningful content. I would love to pick your brain a bit more about what is an effective social media strategy look like? For business owners trying to step up their game, is there a certain cadence? How many times per week or what type of content have you seen work the best? Chris Panteli: Yeah, that's a good question. That's tricky. We know that the LLMs, depending on which model, like to pull from social media of choice. We know that Gemini obviously pulls a lot from YouTube transcript or YouTube videos because that's within Google's ecosystem. I think that social media content is really important because it's... going into like the next rounds of training data for the LLMs and you're also able to reach your audience, you know, in a more personable way. ⁓ But again, it's going to vary niche to niche. I think the important thing is to not just think you need to be on every single social media platform in the world and think about what social media platforms are important to you, your business and where your customers live. ⁓ We had like a client call the other day with someone who they were like crushing it with their social media. had like a food website and they were crushing it on Instagram, which is a platform which lends itself to like ⁓ food and food pictures and stuff. They were like, want to I want to I'm not doing very well on this other platform. Twitter, I think it was. It was like, well, you know, your audience there? Like, where are you getting Where are you connecting with your audience? Because if they're not there, then it's probably not worth the ROI of investing the time there. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: That makes a lot of sense. ⁓ I think a lot of businesses try to focus on LinkedIn. ⁓ Is that, do you see, you know, I guess it does it just depend on the type of business that they're, you that it is and their ICP, it sounds like it comes down to narrowing that down and figuring out which channel to really focus on. Chris Panteli: Mm. Yeah, I think so. I think it's important to have well-built out social channels across all the platforms in terms of ⁓ your information. So, LLMs, they derive trust from consensus of information. So, if I've got on my LinkedIn profile that I'm Chris Pantelli, co-founder of Linkify and Total Authority, and then on my Facebook, I put that I'm a county Champions darts player and all I talk about is darts. I don't mention my business and then on my Instagram account I'm like, ⁓ you know Chris Pantelli scuba diver I coach scuba diving LLM's gonna be like who is this guy? What does he do? He does like loads of different things like you need to clearly be Talking about yourself in your business in the same way across all platforms. That's how LLMs Are able to trust because they derive trust from consensus of information and you can see this back from like with Google and you're looking at local SEO and NAP, NAP, name address, phone number. If you have like a divergence in that information across directories, your own website, Google business profile, other websites, if the information is like a little bit different, like the address doesn't match or is different on one side to another, then it's an instant like algorithmic distrust to that information, which is why citation cleanup services exist because people want their citations and Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: in. Chris Panteli: everything to be, you know, accurate. So I think it's important to be on social media platforms. I think that's important as well when you are doing the sort of work that we want to do with clients, which is ⁓ putting them in front of the media. So in the era of AI, when you can produce like hyper realistic fake images, I did a video of myself the other day in Gemini's new model where I asked it to rip the skin off my face and reveal a robot and it looked Awesome, I can't believe it. So in that era, we want to be able to have like journalists and, you know, even potentially customers be able to go, who is this person that's, you know, representing this company? Can I trust them? And that's going to be having like multiple profile pictures out there and having well-built out profiles. You don't want to land on a LinkedIn page on someone that you might want to engage with as a journalist or maybe do business with as a client. And they've got no banner, you know, no profile picture. one connection and they've never posted like instant distrust. So you do need to put the time and effort in across those other platforms as well. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, I love that perspective. That lens that you have ⁓ is really unique around, know, AI search engines and being consistent across the platforms. That's something to take away too. ⁓ Yeah, so what type of, I would love to know more about the link between, so you're building your content strategy, you're posting every day, you know, videos, clips, combination of text and video. ⁓ When, at what point do you bridge that gap between just generating content and then getting listed on, you know, getting in front of media like the ultimate goal? Chris Panteli: Yeah, so for us, like, two separate things. Engaging the media, we recommend you do through inbound journalist requests is the place to start. So the biggest platform for that was Harrow, help a reporter out, free to sign up. Journalists will post or they will send, you will receive an email three times a day from journalists that are proactively looking for sources to quote in their stories. And that will be across different verticals. And it's normally very well vetted and curated for you know, tier one publications. So it might be a journalist writing an article for Healthline saying, I'm looking for a health expert or an MD or a doctor to give me some comments on the story I'm working on about the heatwave in the UK and what people that have allergies can do to, you know, prevent X, Y and Z. So if you are running a health business or you have health credentials, that's perfect. You should answer that. And hopefully if they include your commentary, you get the link. And there are query, they are posting these sorts of inbound requests all day, every day across all verticals. Well, not all verticals, but across many verticals. So you can really, really hone in on what the are right for you and dial into those and try and answer them. And when you do that, you then be able to like start formulating relationships with journalists. And that's how you then take it to the next level. Recently, we got a client from, we've been working with him for years. doing a more traditional PR approach over the past six months. by helping him engage with journalists, he's a real estate ⁓ brokerage owner. does like nearly a billion dollars in volume in Austin, Texas. We had a New York Times op-ed piece where they went to his house, did an article, took photos of him. We got him a TV CNBC ⁓ news slot, like a talking head spot a couple of weeks ago. And this stuff just, you know, the whole point is to business. position and build him as the go-to authority within his local area. And you can do this, it just takes time and engagement and yeah, I think that's what will differentiate the businesses that survive into the future because it's hard to do, but if you do it, that's how you build that moat of trust. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, 100%. Wow, yeah, lot of good takeaways there. ⁓ Man, I love that thought process and strategy. We touched on it a little bit earlier, but I'd love to hear how you're most leveraging AI these days. How is it affecting your industry the most? Chris Panteli: Oh, AI is my, I love it. And I just feel like I'm getting left behind every day. So it's stressing me out. We're using it like as much as we can. I mean, I've got, can look at my desktop now on the bottom. I've got codecs, I've got Claude, I've got anti-gravity. I've got everything. You know, I'm using Hermes agents to do stuff. We're doing as much internally. are automating as many processes as possible. We are testing AI in terms of like actually delivering like the work for our clients. It's a bit tricky in terms of like the work that we do. Like we don't want to be writing AI stuff like to journalists because it doesn't work, but we can certainly like research and analyze and test and all of that, which is working really, really well. ⁓ And then from like a business growth perspective, we're able to like repurpose content really, really well. Analyze internal data as well in order to improve our internal operations. Recently I did a study where we were able to analyze, I think we took like a thousand pitches that we'd done to journalists. I was able to easily identify from Airtable the ones that we'd sent and won compared to the ones that we hadn't won. So there was a percentage of winners against the losers. And then I was able to produce... had so much internal data, like time that we received the request from the journalist, time that we sent the pitch back, word count, of niche that the journalists were operating. So all this information, I was able to just like use like a deep research analysis of it and was able to get like awesome information back. Like 70 % of ⁓ quotes that you won were for pitches that were sent back within an hour, let's say. as opposed to, you know, past the hour or ideal word length was between 300 and 700, like 80 % of the pitches that you won were between that word length. And this just took minutes. You know, I we had the data, but to analyze it took minutes. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, crazy. Yeah, what an interesting use case. And you mentioned a few other use cases as well. ⁓ Man, and there's so many tools out there. You're clearly a cut ahead of a lot of people in terms of AI implementation. I'm curious how you choose the right tool and how do you separate the wheat from the chaff and choose the one that works in your business? Chris Panteli: Mm-hmm. I don't know, I wish I had the answer to that, honestly. I try and stay off YouTube because when I see, I don't want to get into bed and watch something interesting. I just started The Pit, I don't know if you've seen that, it's fantastic, but I just started watching The Pit, so it's like, oh, I've to watch the next episode. If I put YouTube on and I see someone say, the insane latest new AI agent model, I think, oh, they can't be another one that I've got to look at and learn. So I would stay away from YouTube. I think the safest thing at the minute is to stick with the big players. So Codex, I love. ⁓ I use OpenA, ChatGPT for all of my strategy conversational stuff. And then I love Codex for building tools and things like that. And it has really generous usage. Claude, Claude I like a lot. Everybody raves about Claude. I'm not as... I haven't fallen in love with it like I know a lot of people have. I think I prefer Codex, but yeah, I don't know. If you've got the answer to that, tell me. don't know. do you avoid shiny object syndromes? Impossible. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Exactly, yeah, I think it is. It is impossible to some extent just with how many new tools are coming out and ⁓ new features. It's crazy, even just a few months ago things have been changed quite significantly. I don't know, maybe just trying a tool and having a specific outcome you want and, you know, just giving it a shot. Chris Panteli: Yeah, yeah, that's true. And, and I do think it's good to use, to use more than just one because you will find that certain things are better at some like certain tasks and others. Like I'll use perplexity for sort of just like quick, fast internet searches. But if I'm going to do any sort of, yeah, like planning, it'll be chatty PT. I like Claude for like intense coding work as well. So I think, and then I like Gemini as well. if I'm going to do stuff where I know I want it in like in Google products. If like there's some stuff that you just you know you want to live in a Google Docs you may as well start here because it's going to put it really nicely. So there's different things. I mean, I mean, who knows what it's going to look like in a year's time. There's probably going to be like one or two key players I imagine and all of these like open claw and Hermes agents and all of these like side things that have blown up will the big boys will bring into their ecosystem I imagine and then we'll be left with just like two or three big players, I think, I don't know. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, who knows, I could see that happening for sure. Do you see a benefit of going directly to the LLM, like directly to Claude, directly to ChatRBT, rather than using, ⁓ for example, Perplexity, which has access to those LLMs within it? Chris Panteli: Yeah. Yeah, I I probably use perplexity just as a search replacement for Google, just because it's fast. And yeah, if I'm going to do an actual task, I wouldn't use perplexity for anything like anything task based. So I do all like website builds and developments inside of Codex, which does limit me then to the Codex models. I mean, having said that, got, I have everything live inside of GitHub. So everything is cloud-based. Every project is a repo which lives in GitHub. And then I can access that repo and work on it from any of the models that I want via their desktop apps. So I will work on either with Claude or Codex on any of our GitHub repos, if that makes sense. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Interesting. Yeah, and for the agents specifically too, you'd want to go directly to the whatever model it is. Chris Panteli: Yeah, agents is, I'm not, I don't think I'm at a place yet where I want to be with like agentically running stuff. I mean, it does it for you inside of things like the codex app. will run like multiple agents simultaneously, but having like Hermes styles agents running like five or six or 10 agents at the same time to produce the same task. haven't found an actual use case for that for us yet. ⁓ and I don't want to lose like an entire week to figuring it out just yet. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, that's true. It is a time investment for sure. It's like training a new employee almost, you know. Chris Panteli: Yeah, yeah it is, but then I suppose once it's done you don't have to pay him. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. ⁓ awesome. Well, great tangent here. I know we're coming up on time. We've got one final question for you, Chris. What is one practical tip for business owners who want to start building their visibility and authority online right now? Chris Panteli: Make sure you are beautifully presented on your website's about page. Make sure the about page is easily visible and accessible. Don't bury it in like eight clicks of navigation and screen from the rooftops within that about page section about your skills, credentials, awards, accolades. Link all of your social icon favicons, multiple social ⁓ profile images, previous media mentions and features. Like absolutely. We are in the era of personal brand and brand, and I still get like client calls booked from real businesses that are making real money. And like, I'll look at the website before the call and go, I can't even see who works here. There's no like about pages, no team page. Like can't do that in this era. Make sure that you've got that. And once you've got that, then you can start looking at things like engaging the media to get coverage in publications. But get that right first. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Wow, yeah, ⁓ that's great. I just took a note. I need to step up my about page. Chris Panteli: ⁓ Yeah, and don't have it under like, I see some, and you'll go down and it'll be like, okay, I just want to see like the team or like who's the owner and where's the about? And then it'll be like our story. So you click there and then there's like eight more buttons and then you just want to know, you know, who's the CEO of this business? Who's the owner? Who are the people behind it? Like, I don't know why you wouldn't do that in this day and age. Yeah. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: sense. Great, great takeaway. Love this conversation, Chris. Amazing, amazing insights. Chris Panteli: Thank you so much for having me Pete. ⁓ actually if anybody wants to get, I've got a free cheat sheet they can get at linkify.io slash cheat dash sheet and that will give you everything you need to know to go and get your first five pieces of like tier one coverage. That's all in there. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Great. Yeah, I was just going to ask you if you had it, where's the best place to find out and learn more. I'll put that in the show notes. Chris Panteli: Okay, awesome. Thank you so much, Pete. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Absolutely Chris, great having you on.