Latest / Troubled Men Podcast / Feral Zone 23 JOE GELINI: CHA WA RISES UP

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Feral Zone 23 JOE GELINI: CHA WA RISES UP · Troubled Men Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Inside the Feral Zone. Greetings, listeners. Welcome back. Inside the Feral Zone of the Troubled Men podcast. I am Renee Komen, operating under cover of darkness from inside Snake and Jake's Christmas Club Lounge in the heart of the Clempire. Many of you may know the Feral Zone is a sister podcast of the Troublemen podcast. It appears in the space from time to time as is warranted. And tonight, Manny is occupied with some school book depository work, possibly feathering his sniper's nest. But that being said, we have a longtime guest host of the Feral zone, the great Mr. Jeff Treffinger. Welcome, Jeff.
• 0:57
  Speaker B: Greetings, Renee.
• 0:58
  Speaker A: How are you? I'm good, I'm good. You may know Jeff Jeff Treffinger from his work with is a founder of Tribe Nunzio, founder of the Geraniums, also guitar player in the Glenn Styler rock band, also owner of the Mermaid Lounge, owner of Truck Farm, on and on. We have a new project, Ultraviolet, and I'm kind of letting the cat out of the bag here. It's going to be exciting, exciting recording project.
• 1:28
  Speaker B: And don't leave out target of Manny Chevrolet's sniper rifle.
• 1:34
  Speaker A: Sure, I think he's. We're. We're all in the crosshairs. But so that being said, we have a terrific guest tonight. I'm going to go ahead and introduce him right off the bat before we get into our gripes. He's a twice Grammy nominated drummer, bandleader, songwriter, educator, a founding member of the Mardi Gras Indian funk band Chawa. He's worked with the Wild Magnolias, Art Neville, Preservation Hall Jazz Band, Big Chief, Monk Boudreau, Alvin Young, Bloodheart, many more. He's also taught many places around the city. Noka cac, Ogden Museum of Southern Whatever, Music Box Village. I love the Ogden Museum.
• 2:20
  Speaker B: I do too.
• 2:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Also, he was an on and off music director at the Nola Detox. So you can tell right off the bat we have a lot of things in common. Welcome, Joe.
• 2:31
  Speaker C: Thanks for having me, Rene.
• 2:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, man, thanks for making it.
• 2:34
  Speaker C: It's my pleasure.
• 2:35
  Speaker A: It's a little bit of shifting schedules here, but we all pulled it together.
• 2:39
  Speaker C: New Orleans style, right?
• 2:41
  Speaker A: Exactly. Well, you know, the Feral Zone, sometimes we get right into it. But since we have a lively group here at the table, I'll go into my. Some of my usual grievances that I need to air. First off, Jeff, you know, you're a builder, you deal with safety and permits department all the time. And you, you have. Not all the time. Not all the time. But I'm sure You are aware of their. Their new Healthy Homes apartment certification?
• 3:10
  Speaker B: Oh, yes, I am.
• 3:11
  Speaker A: Boondoggle. You know, I got notices on two of my properties months ago. I was thinking, oh, I'm just not going to do it. I'm just not going to do it. Then I decided, well, here they're going to find me if I don't do it. So. But. But I. I waited one day too long. I thought maybe they'll let me slide. You think they're going to let me slide? No, no, no. They're going to charge me.
• 3:33
  Speaker B: You called me.
• 3:34
  Speaker A: I called you. That's right. So I went ahead and filled it out, you know, actually went down there and spoke to him, you know, tried to try to put the glad hand on him, but. And thought maybe it might have worked. Now, then I got a notice the other day that. That, well, one of my apartments went through. I just had to pay the $50 fine. Then they'll. They'll give it to me. Then the other one, they said, well, there's an H vac permit that's hanging this up. I'm like, h vac permit?
• 4:01
  Speaker B: Oh, you have an open permit?
• 4:03
  Speaker A: Open permit? What the fuck is an open permit?
• 4:06
  Speaker B: It's a permit that wasn't closed.
• 4:08
  Speaker A: Well, I mean, why do you need to. Why do you need to close it? I mean, like, you get the permit and then the. Well, now, this is for. From a period of time that I didn't even have any H Vac work done that anybody would pull a permit for.
• 4:27
  Speaker B: You know what? We'll go. We'll go romping through the One Stop Shop tomorrow together, and I'll show you.
• 4:35
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 4:36
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to talk. You know, this is public.
• 4:42
  Speaker A: Right.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: This could all come crashing down on both of us.
• 4:45
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Careful. Is that right? Yeah.
• 4:47
  Speaker B: This Healthy home stuff, I don't know. I think they should start with healthy people.
• 4:51
  Speaker A: Well, no, I think the healthy home stuff is definitely going to be a nightmare because you take one of the most corrupt departments and inept departments in the whole city government outside of the executive branch, outside of Latoya Cantrell's actual, you know, operation, why would you want to invent this whole other regime and put them in charge of it?
• 5:16
  Speaker B: Well, you know, that's an excellent question.
• 5:19
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 5:20
  Speaker B: And I don't know why. They certainly have gone down a couple notches since COVID They were on a roll. You know, they were actually, in a good way, improving prior to Covid. Yeah, it was much More user friendly used to go in there and it was like, you know, it was like going to a deli. You know, you put who you needed to talk to and you'd sit there and wait and your name come up and you go to a desk and you talk to someone. You get something done.
• 5:50
  Speaker A: Okay?
• 5:51
  Speaker B: And no more. Now it's like an empty hallway and nobody comes out. And there's one poor human being at the desk who takes all the grief of every, every human being in the city who's pissed off, just like you.
• 6:07
  Speaker A: Just like me. Right. I'm sure I'm not alone.
• 6:09
  Speaker B: Only that's their job, is to deal with people like on a conveyor belt of anger.
• 6:14
  Speaker A: Right. And, and just shine them off, you know, it's. It's like it's a haunted department where.
• 6:19
  Speaker B: You know, I wish it was that active.
• 6:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
• 6:25
  Speaker C: Sounds like a great gig.
• 6:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, my sis, my daughter works at city hall now.
• 6:30
  Speaker A: Okay. My condolences. Yeah, well, no, it's a steady gig. I know you have to kill somebody to get fired from New Orleans city government. So it's lifetime employment. Well, I was in a parking lot the other day. I was trying to park, and I was actually trying to leave the parking lot, and a woman had driven by, like she's passed me up in the lane. She's going to, you know, down the line looking for another parking space. So I back up slowly. I'm waiting to see, you know, where I can cross into the other lane. Suddenly, she throws the car in reverse and backs up into the side of my car.
• 7:09
  Speaker C: Oh, man.
• 7:12
  Speaker B: And it's hot.
• 7:14
  Speaker A: Oh, man, and it's hot.
• 7:16
  Speaker B: It was summer.
• 7:16
  Speaker A: It was. It was a slow moving crash, but a crash nonetheless. So now I'm, I'm in.
• 7:21
  Speaker B: Was she polite?
• 7:22
  Speaker A: She was polite. We were both polite. Now I don't know if she thought somehow that was my fault. We didn't really establish fault and we just figured, well, you know, this is not a big deal. But now I'm sweating it, man. I'm like, oh, geez, what is she going to tell her insurance company? I have a lawsuit on my hands. I may have to rely on Redmond. I may have to pull out a big gun.
• 7:41
  Speaker B: Now, let's see, she's you. Well, it's not. She's going in reverse in a parking lot.
• 7:47
  Speaker A: Yeah. You can't back up into somebody and say, I mean, what, what's, what's the defense?
• 7:54
  Speaker B: She didn't know what gear she was in.
• 7:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
• 7:57
  Speaker B: And who got the space?
• 8:00
  Speaker A: Well, I mean, it was not my space. We weren't, I was in a space, I was leaving. So anyway, it's a very bizarre situation. Enough of that. Back to our guest, the great Mr. Joe Gilini. So you are not from New Orleans.
• 8:13
  Speaker C: I am not from New Orleans.
• 8:14
  Speaker A: Now you have the name Jalini and which is Italian, I assume. You know, there's a lot of Italian sounding names in New Orleans, but I think that you and our co host may be some of the few actual real mainland Italians here in New Orleans. Because everybody else is Sicilian who has an Italian name.
• 8:37
  Speaker C: Well, actually my dad's side of the family is, they would say, part Sicilian, part Roman.
• 8:44
  Speaker A: Okay, all right. So a mixed marriage.
• 8:49
  Speaker C: Yeah, it was like, you know, anyone who's Italian understands the dichotomy of, you know, regions.
• 8:57
  Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. Well, a lot of people in New Orleans understand as well. I have nothing to do with Italy personally, but I'm well acquainted with the geography of the area and the history of the area.
• 9:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I heard that at one point there were more Sicilians living in New Orleans than living in Sicily, like the turn of the century.
• 9:17
  Speaker A: Wow. Really?
• 9:19
  Speaker C: I, I, you know, don't quote me.
• 9:21
  Speaker A: Right, right, right, right.
• 9:22
  Speaker B: Well, it could be in America because the Sicilians were brought in after the great migration, after the end of slavery. They thought they could use Sicilians as farm laborers.
• 9:34
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 9:35
  Speaker B: And they underestimated them.
• 9:38
  Speaker A: Right. It's a wily bunch.
• 9:41
  Speaker B: They underestimated their ability to listen to directions.
• 9:46
  Speaker C: Well, I could, I could give you my, my dad's favorite Italian joke. You want to hear it?
• 9:51
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 9:53
  Speaker C: Why don't Italians like Jehovah's Witnesses?
• 9:56
  Speaker A: Why?
• 9:56
  Speaker C: Italians don't like any Witnesses.
• 10:00
  Speaker A: That's a good one.
• 10:00
  Speaker B: It is a good one.
• 10:02
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: Well, so not being from New Orleans, where do you hail from?
• 10:07
  Speaker C: So I grew up in New England, Rhode island and Connecticut. And then, you know, I went to music school in Boston.
• 10:16
  Speaker A: Okay, well, tell us about your family. So, big Catholic family?
• 10:21
  Speaker C: Yeah, Well, I have three younger biological brothers, actually. One of them lives in New Orleans and is a very successful and talented production manager. And his name is Tom Gilini and he works over the Joy Theater and he tour manages some national acts and you know, does. He went to Loyola and so love that he's here.
• 10:51
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 10:52
  Speaker C: I've got two, two other brothers who live in Santa Monica now in la. And, and yeah, we just, you know, we. It was very, my, my dad was really responsible for kind of like instilling the love of New Orleans in, in me.
• 11:09
  Speaker A: How was that?
• 11:11
  Speaker C: He was in. He was president of a broadcasting company at the, you know, towards the end of his career, and he. He worked his way up, but he was, you know, back in, in the 90s, there was a. There was a broadcasting convention in New Orleans called the Natpeak Convention. And he actually took me to that when I was on my Christmas break, my first year at Berkeley, and. But before that, he was always bringing back music from New Orleans and, you know, just kind of like regaling me with the, like talking about Tipitina's and the different restaurants and nightclubs and. I mean, it was just really, really incredible.
• 11:57
  Speaker A: Before you'd ever been to New Orleans, you were hearing these tales.
• 12:00
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker A: Sound like Oz or something.
• 12:02
  Speaker C: Totally did. I mean, it's, you know, I grew up in this very white, upper middle class, you know, sub suburb of New York City in Westport, Connecticut. And it was, you know, I have great memories from there, but it, it was like the antithesis of New Orleans.
• 12:24
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 12:24
  Speaker C: Culturally.
• 12:25
  Speaker A: Right.
• 12:25
  Speaker C: Yeah. So I was really looking for something. I was on a. A spiritual journey.
• 12:33
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 12:33
  Speaker C: And Quest. Yeah, quest. And New Orleans, really, ever since has just been, you know, I felt like I. I lived here in another life.
• 12:42
  Speaker A: Interesting. Yes, yes, I know.
• 12:44
  Speaker C: But he would always bring them, you know, like, I was listening to the Meters in high school and Dr. John and the Neville Brothers and Astro Project and all that.
• 12:52
  Speaker A: Now, now, were you already playing music at that point and, like, through elementary school and high school?
• 12:57
  Speaker C: Yeah, I started really gigging when I was about 16 years old.
• 13:01
  Speaker A: So did you come up through the school band program, playing marching band, that kind of thing?
• 13:05
  Speaker C: Yeah, I did all that, but then I quickly, like, got involved and I was like, playing blues and, you know, I was actually gigging and like, going out and playing at bars when I was 16.
• 13:16
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 13:17
  Speaker C: So. So, yeah, I was, like, committed to it immediately.
• 13:22
  Speaker A: Sure, sure. Now, friends of yours that you were bringing all these New Orleans records around, Meters, what did they think about all that? Was that.
• 13:30
  Speaker C: I mean, I used to, you know, like, we'd play. I remember that when I finally figured out how to play, Look a PI PI on the drums, I was like, I, like, invited one of my best friends over who was. I played. He played guitar with me and he was just. He looked at me, he was like, whoa. And I had like, you know, I was like, wait, come here and check this out. You know, I finally figured it out.
• 13:57
  Speaker A: Nice. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's precious material, man. It's.
• 14:04
  Speaker C: It's like gospel.
• 14:05
  Speaker A: Right? Right. What kind of bands were you seeing coming through there? What, what, what was your taste outside of the New Orleans thing? Were you into rock and roll, jazz?
• 14:16
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean everything just sort of the nature of it being there, like growing, Going to high school in the early to mid-90s, it was like a lot of, you know, a lot of rock bands know, Nirvana hit when I was a freshman in high school.
• 14:32
  Speaker A: Now you're a fan of Nirvana?
• 14:35
  Speaker C: I mean, I am, I, I am. And you know, Dave Grohl was probably the drummer that first catapulted me into like wanting to actually sit down and listen to CDs and try and tapes and try to figure out exactly how to play those things.
• 14:52
  Speaker A: That style.
• 14:52
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker A: Now, now here's something I haven't heard anybody say this, but I thought it right away. Dave Grohl's drumming style, to me I can draw a direct line back to Bill Ward from Black Sabbath.
• 15:07
  Speaker C: Oh yeah, well, I mean he's, he's an incredibly musical drummer and.
• 15:12
  Speaker A: Dave Grohl.
• 15:13
  Speaker C: Dave Grohl, yes. And I was just.
• 15:14
  Speaker B: And Bill Ward.
• 15:15
  Speaker C: And Bill Ward, Yeah. I mean, you know, those were, those records were epic. But then that, that really just kind of like lasted a couple years for me because that was, you know, that things moved quickly. And then I got into, you know, I was playing in some blues bands and you know, I would go to see what, you know, when I was old enough, I'd go to see the Allman Brothers play their residencies at the Beacon Theater. Oh, cool. And we would go to different jazz clubs in New York City. You know, we go see like the Mingus Big Band and stuff like that. They played at the Fez.
• 15:53
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 15:54
  Speaker C: I don't even know. It's still there. But it was an underground. They had the whole, the whole band, like Randy Brer would play with them. I mean it was just really, it was, it was really epic. But yeah, so I got, I got, I got exposed to a lot of stuff. I got, you know, then of course there was sort of like the jam band scene, you know, like Fish and the Dave Matthews Band and, and things like that were all kind of happening concurrently with, you know, the. I was listening to jazz and I was listening to all sorts of different music and you know, spending a lot of time listening to the Meters and you know, just kind of. I just love music, so. Sure, sure. I've always had a very open minded approach to.
• 16:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's a good music. Why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:44
  Speaker B: So, so what was your first Band. And what kind of music were you playing when you finally, like, had the soup of your influences and then whatever friends you had that had, you know, their own skills and you all came together.
• 17:01
  Speaker C: I mean, the nice thing about where I grew up in Westport, Connecticut, was that a lot of my friends played music. And it was like sort of. It used to be a. It was known for being, like, sort of a bohemian, like, artist colony, you know, even though I was born with the silver spoon in my mouth, you know, like Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward lived down the, you know, the street.
• 17:27
  Speaker A: Really?
• 17:27
  Speaker B: Did you get salad dressing?
• 17:29
  Speaker C: I did, yeah. Well, I mean, of course, that was a rite of passage.
• 17:33
  Speaker A: Do you get to go to their house and hang out with them?
• 17:36
  Speaker C: No, but, like, he came to our school one time and did like a. You know, what was it like? Kids in the wall or kids in the. Kids in the hall? No, not kids in the hall. I can't remember what his. His. His charity was that. Okay, that. That he did, but, I mean, he would, you know. Yeah, it was. And Nile Rogers lived there. Michael Bolton lived there. Asher. A lot of, like, you know, Ashford and Simpson. Oh, wow.
• 18:06
  Speaker B: Jeez, that's quite a neighborhood.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. No kidding.
• 18:08
  Speaker B: What are block parties?
• 18:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, like, Danny Korchmeier lived there. Keith Richards lived in Weston next door. Just a lot of, you know, and then there were a lot of, like, you know, session players that lived in there. So it was always just kind of like we were always in the orbit of these really, like, amazing musicians.
• 18:33
  Speaker A: Now, did you have an opportunity to study with any of these guys when you were in high school or, like, take private lessons or.
• 18:40
  Speaker C: Not really. It was sort of like we would. You know, it was. We were kind of too young to, like, really experience what. What that would have been like. But. But, yeah, it was. It was. It was a pretty incredible place. I remember my. I got so mad at my dad when I was in, like, it must have been like a. 16 years old. And he was like, my friend invited me over to his neighbor's house where the drummer from Mountain and Noel Redding were just jamming in the basement.
• 19:25
  Speaker A: Cool.
• 19:26
  Speaker C: And my dad was like, no, you can't go. It's a school night. And you know, that resentment will sure, sure, sure carry for my whole.
• 19:35
  Speaker A: I understand. Yeah, I have a few of those, too. My father showed up at Old Man Rivers and dragged me out of the parking lot when I was about to see the Ramones.
• 19:45
  Speaker B: Really?
• 19:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:46
  Speaker B: You were on the west bank then, right?
• 19:48
  Speaker A: You were in Algiers? Yeah, I Was in Algiers. But somebody picked me up again. It was a school night. I went without permission. My parents had gone to run an errand somewhere. I just took off and was gone. You know, they didn't know where I was. Well, maybe I left a note saying I went to see the Ramones or something like that. But I just secured somebody's id, an actual ID that kind of looked like me. And I was about to go use that, and I'm kind of jogging across the parking lot and a car pulls up right in front of me. It's my father and he rolls down the window, he goes, get in the fucking car.
• 20:23
  Speaker C: Wow. So, I mean, but if you remember at that period of time, like in the early 90s, early to mid-90s, there was a period where from like, I want to say 1993 or 4, to like 1994, Kurt Cobain committed suicide and Jerry Garcia died in the summer of. I think it was the summer of 1995. And take your word for it. And just that shift in the world of music, it became like, I remember I was going to see the Grateful Dead. And then when Jerry died, that whole. That was a gigantic scene on the Monkey Amongst Itself. And then I remember that summer and fish sort of started filling the void of some of those, the lifestyle of that. So, you know, we'd go see like a ton of live music. And so it's really interesting just to think on a, on a certain level that like from 1993, like, you know, it was like Kurt Cobain, he died. That was sort of like the end of an era. And then Jerry died a couple years later. That was the end of an era. And, you know, all these different changes were happening just within a few years of each other. And it was really interesting just to be, you know, at least like a teenager and kind of be able to, you know, have, have a little bit of a taste of all that.
• 22:06
  Speaker A: Sure, yeah. Yeah. So, so you, you graduate from high school, you go to, to Berkeley. Now, did you know other people that had gone to Berkeley or how. What was your experience with, with, with Berkeley?
• 22:20
  Speaker C: That's an interesting situation because.
• 22:24
  Speaker A: Berkeley College of Music, for any of our listeners that we're not talking about Berkeley in California, Berkeley and Boston.
• 22:31
  Speaker C: I'm not that much of an academic.
• 22:33
  Speaker A: No, no. Just explain to our non musician friends out there.
• 22:38
  Speaker C: I didn't go to the University of California, but you know, Berklee is one of the most esteemed music schools in the country. In the world. World. And you know what was interesting was That I was spending a lot of time in Boston when I was a teenager because my, my mother was terminally ill and she had her doctors up at UMass and Hospital and, or I'm sorry, Mass General Hospital. And so I spent a ton of time and my grandparents lived in Boston and my dad used to work in Copley Square in Boston. So like, I was very familiar with Boston and had a lot of time on my hands. And I would go to Berkeley and I felt like I was like sneaking into a club. But I would literally go down into the basement of the percussion department and just listen and like sort of audit all of these classes that were happening. But just by like I had my ear against the door and it wasn't difficult to hear them. I mean, they were, you know, the walls weren't insulated very well and it was like fantasy land for me. I just was absolutely like blown away. And I don't know that I had any other music school that I even wanted to go to. You know, there was like North Texas State and there's Miami and you know, some of the conservatories. But just Berkeley to me seemed like this dream come true. And, and I just, I put all my eggs in one basket.
• 24:31
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 24:31
  Speaker B: I like that Is the only place you applied to.
• 24:36
  Speaker C: I think I applied to UMass just to have a fallback. Yeah. Actually what happened, Safety school. What happened was actually I had to, I got in on a provisional basis. They said that I had to because I was a drummer. I had, and I hadn't really had a lot of, you know, music theory experience. And because Berklee doesn't discriminate, they make everybody do the same core curriculum. And you know, they were, they would say like, well, we have a lot of problems with drummers dropping out because they haven't learned any theory. So I had to go to a five week summer program that they had which was like really, really fun. But I, I, I passed, I got the, you know, I, I got into Berkeley. You know, I found out, I think, you know, it was only a few weeks before the semester started, but I got in and you know, in the.
• 25:39
  Speaker A: Rest is history now what kind of do you wind up studying with some amazing teachers there? I'd imagine anybody that we would know of or anybody to mention.
• 25:50
  Speaker C: I think the first thing that really was like that there were a couple things that were like, that literally happened just within the orbit of Berkeley that were really sort of life changing for me. Boston and Cambridge has this really amazing. At least they did when I Was there scene of, like, touring jazz musicians? So there were, like, a lot of jazz clubs. And I remember seeing John Scofield when I was 18, and I. You know, I was kind of thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna see some, like, wild fusion drummer like Dennis Chambers or, you know, Dave Weckel or Vinny Kaliuda. And it was Idris Muhammad.
• 26:36
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 26:36
  Speaker C: Who recorded on the Groovilation album that came out that year. And it was like, Larry Goldings and Idris Muhammad and John Scofield. And anyways, it was the first time that I'd ever seen, in person, someone play, like, in the New Orleans drumming style.
• 26:55
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 26:55
  Speaker C: And I was obsessed.
• 26:58
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker C: I, like, just jaw dropping to the floor. Like, if he had started living, levitating over the drum throne, I wouldn't have been surprised because that was how. I mean, it was just like a seismic shift in my whole concept of the role of the drums and how you could even play them.
• 27:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. Now, was he playing some tambourine as well?
• 27:25
  Speaker C: He was. You know what the great part about it was that I went. This is what had actually happened was that my. My mother passed away in my first semester at Berkeley, and I went back to. I had to. This happened during my midterms, and so I missed my midterms, and then I had to go back to. I decided to go back. I didn't. Wasn't forced to, but I decided that would be the best thing for me. And I went back, I took my midterms, and then my dad was taking me and my brothers, like, on vacation for a week, just to kind of, like, decompress and have some time by ourselves and be able to go through the grieving process. And it really felt like a spiritual experience. I went to see the band, Scofield's band, the night before I was supposed to. Or two nights before I was supposed to drive back or be back in Connecticut or take the train back. Whatever I was gonna do, it was only three hours away. And I went up to Idris after he played, and I was just like. I probably sounded like I was five years old. I was like, yeah, that's great. You're really good. You know, you're from New Orleans. Yeah. Yeah. So I. I went up to him, and I was just like, you know, sort of, you know, know. I don't know. I was very. I was. I was, like, desperate to learn about it. So I said, hey, would you give me. Would you consider giving me a drum lesson? And he was like, sure, kid. You know, like, I'M here all weekend, you know, come pick me up or, you know, just come meet me in the lobby of the hotel at noon and we'll figure it out. And I was like, you know, I went and got a practice space at Berkeley and I went, I took the, the tea, like the, you know, to Cambridge and met him. He took the, he took the subway back with me to, to Boston across the river and we did this like two hour lesson. We went to Jack Strum Shop. We did all this stuff. And then, you know, he was even late to his, I think, his lobby call.
• 29:40
  Speaker A: Because he was hanging out with you.
• 29:41
  Speaker C: Because he was hanging out with me. And it was like, it was just the most amazing thing and how generous he was like, oh, it was just incredible. He was such a thoughtful and kind person. And, you know, he'd explained to me like, you know, the, the bass drum and the hi hat, the way that I'm playing those with my feet is just like mimicking a brass band bass drummer. And you know, he'd like do the. Austin Auto was like. And, and I was like, wow. And then, you know, he said, and I'm playing the Mardi Gras Indian tambourine patterns on the, on the floor Tom, you know, And I was like, what's a Mardi Gras Indian?
• 30:31
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 30:32
  Speaker C: And he was like, you need to go to New Orleans. All right? You need. You. I can't explain it to you and give you the full relevance of it or if you don't have the context. And, and I literally was in New Orleans in January of 1996. So, like two months later.
• 30:54
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 30:54
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 30:55
  Speaker A: So giving you your directive, this is the next thing you need to do.
• 30:58
  Speaker C: Yeah. I was like, yes, sir.
• 31:00
  Speaker A: Okay, so. And you were, you were finishing Berkeley anyhow, about that time or.
• 31:05
  Speaker C: No, I had just started Berkeley. That was my, that was my Christmas break. My dad took me to New Orleans. My dad took me to that NATP convention. And I remember I went, I went to the Mermaid Lounge to see Galactic and I took my dad and his friends and we were there at like, you know, like three, four o' clock in the morning, which was like, you couldn't even. Clubs didn't even stay open that late in, in Boston and Connecticut. So just being out there and, and seeing it, and I remember seeing Stanton for the first time. And I went to see my. In fact, the, the, the great really cool story that happened was my dad said, okay, so this is before cell phones and before, you know, know, email and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So He. My dad got me a ticket to New Orleans. He said, now, look, I want. When you. When the plane lands, I want you to get your bag and I want you to go out and take a taxi and tell the taxi driver that you're going to Snug harbor and just meet me there. And we went in. I. The. So I land my feet landed on Frenchman street, and my dad was there. Snug harbor went and Silas Marsalis.
• 32:15
  Speaker A: Nice. One of my teachers.
• 32:18
  Speaker C: I mean, just. It. It was. It did not disappoint. You know, I was. Sure I was. And one of my friends was going to Tulane that I played in high school with one of my best friends. He's a bass player. And, yeah, we just. I was. I was all in.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 32:33
  Speaker C: Yeah. And then I went to Jazz Fest a couple times. Once, you know, during. When I was at Berkeley. And, you know, of course, that was during my finals. And I came back and had to take all my finals in, like, three days, but it was, you know, it was worth it.
• 32:52
  Speaker A: But now, after. After being down for that. That convention, you had already decided, once I'm done with college, I'm going down to New Orleans. I'm moving down there.
• 33:00
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 33:01
  Speaker A: You made that decision.
• 33:01
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 33:02
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 33:03
  Speaker C: But also, you know, to let, you know. Know about. Disclose the loop on the Berkeley thing.
• 33:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:09
  Speaker C: I. When I took a semester off and I was infatuated with, like, modern and sort of traditional gospel music. So I. I went up to Dennis Montgomery, who was the head of the gospel department, and I said, you know, like, hey, I'd really like to, you know, put, you know, playing the ensemble and. Which was, you know, a little bit arrogant of me. Like, the best drummers, the top drummers at Berklee were doing that ensemble. And he was like, well, if you're not enrolled, you know, you can't just, like, take one ensemble class and blah, blah, blah. He said, but I need a sub drummer from my brother at church on Sunday.
• 33:56
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 33:57
  Speaker C: You know, want to. You want to do it? And I was like, yes. And I literally, like, showed up to Concord Baptist Church. It was like this huge congregation, like, probably 1,500 people. And it was me and Dennis and best. Still probably one of the absolute best musicians I've ever played with in my entire life. And I played with some legends and just sat down and he just started playing, like. We started, like, playing, like, you know, shout gospel music. And it was just like, feet to the fire. And I did that gig for, like, two years.
• 34:33
  Speaker A: Nice immersion.
• 34:34
  Speaker C: Yeah. And I never Took the ensemble. I just played at church.
• 34:38
  Speaker A: Well, that was probably even better, man.
• 34:40
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
• 34:40
  Speaker A: In the trenches, you know, doing it for real.
• 34:42
  Speaker C: 100%. 100%. And then there was Wally's in Boston, which was where I went to school with the guys from Lettuce.
• 34:54
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 34:54
  Speaker C: You know, like Adam Deitch and Adam Schmeens Smirnoff and those guys. And they were doing. They were just kind of starting. They had a residency at Wally's, which is this little hole in the wall jazz club. And so I got to watch Lettuce, like every Sunday night play. And know it was just like the. The scene around. It was like a real hip scene around Boston at the time. And. And there were a ton of clubs and there was just like a lot of live music happening. And, you know, even being in college, I had an opportunity to play at a lot of different venues. I played. I played with the Czech Radio Symphony at Symphony hall in Boston. I played with Richard. Richard Stoltzman, who's like one of the best clarinetists in the world. I played at Concord Baptist Church. I played. You know, I had a lot of really, really incredible experiences, all before I graduated, man.
• 35:56
  Speaker A: Fantastic.
• 35:57
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 35:57
  Speaker A: I was gonna say, yeah, there's not a lot of musicians in Boston, but I just.
• 36:05
  Speaker B: Well, making yourself available and being open.
• 36:09
  Speaker C: Yeah. I mean.
• 36:10
  Speaker B: And ready to go. I mean, what was it within you, do you think, that just made you so confident that you could do these things and so ready and available to do them without fear?
• 36:27
  Speaker C: I would say partially naivety.
• 36:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 36:36
  Speaker C: Probably. You know, the. The thing about Berkeley is that it. If you. If you didn't. I think it taught you almost more than anything, confidence.
• 36:48
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 36:49
  Speaker C: And there was a lot of, like, the teachers there were like, actively gigging music musicians, and they were like, if you get called to do a session last minute and it's at like 2 in the morning, do it, you know, because they would have. Berkeley would be running the studios all throughout the night. And, you know, they. They basically were. It was sort of like, you. You can't be shy now. That got me into trouble in certain situations, but it also got me opportunities that I other would have otherwise would never have had. So, you know, I think it's, you know, like, obviously in hindsight, there are things that I probably would have, you know, opted to have a little bit more experience before I jumped right in. But at the same time, it's kind of like if you. I think as a musician, especially. Especially like if you are able to be confident in being able to, like, keep your. I remember the first time I played with Walter Wolfman Washington. He was like. I was, like, 26 as I was young, and he was just like, keep your eyes open and your ears open, you know, just like. Like, just like, look at me, you know? So I think that there's a lot. You can come cover a lot of ground if you are a musician and you are really listening.
• 38:21
  Speaker A: Focused, attentive.
• 38:23
  Speaker C: Focused, attentive. If people, you know, I think really good musicians will give you good, like, body language and some, like, feedback, just physically, if you're paying attention to them. And it's all. And as a drummer, I, you know, it's all about making it feel good.
• 38:40
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 38:41
  Speaker C: So if you can. If you can do that. And I, you know, that's one thing that I learned from playing with the Mardi Gras Indians. Like, when I was playing with Monk Boudreau, I was still, like, learning all of the style. Like, I'm. I'm a thousand times better at playing it now than I was then, but I was coming from the approach of, like, I just need to make sure that he's, like, dancing. And I would just look as the drummer. You're always looking at people's backsides, you know?
• 39:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:11
  Speaker C: Literally, you know, you're looking at the band and if they are moving. And then the other thing about. The other thing that's interesting about the Indians would be playing with the Indians would be like. Oftentimes if we were playing at, like, DBA or a small club in New Orleans, I wouldn't literally wouldn't be able to see this, the audience, because of the feathers. So I would rely on the Indians themselves, like, dancing and, like, you know, moving their hips, and they sort of, like, march in place a little bit sometimes.
• 39:40
  Speaker A: Right.
• 39:41
  Speaker C: And I knew if I was doing that, all the other technical stuff was irrelevant.
• 39:46
  Speaker A: Take care of itself.
• 39:46
  Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:47
  Speaker A: Right.
• 39:47
  Speaker C: Exactly.
• 39:48
  Speaker A: Well, this is a fantastic story. And we're gonna get. You're about to. You know, you're talking about getting to New Orleans. We're going to get into all that. But I think this is a good time to take a little break here. I'm going to get another cocktail for myself, get another round of. Of some Shirley Temples for you boys, and we'll be right back.
• 40:19
  Speaker D: Walking down on by down that morning Here they come. Enjoy. Welcome to New Orleans, home to the eighth wonder of the world, the Louisiana Mercedes. Excuse me, Caesar Superdome. Home to the greatest free show in the world, Mardi Gras achiwawa unane Giacomo finane Super Sunday fun day Social aid and pleasure clubs Mardi Gras engines extraordinaire Kuchi MAU Walking down on by down that morning Camellia red bean blue plate real mayonnaise Coochie mak no humba that morning Achi wah wah hunane jackamo fina nay let em come make no humba that morning welcome to New Orleans Crawfish a Tuesday Achiy I'm Tom Where I'm from don't start no trouble There won't be none Meet me that morning my face painted red Rock to the rhythm tell them don't get scared Here we go the band go to bumping whole gang jumping women in the Holland here we come Rocket to the rhythm Big bass drum Load my pistol and sharpen my knife I ain't nothing nice I don't know but you've been told something like the rock I'd like to roll we on our way here we come, here we go Whole gang joker we on fire Come on Gucci maw Home to the world champions New Orleans Saints to the who that nation from the wild creation we don't buy down on that dirty ground Let him come let's go get them.
• 42:22
  Speaker A: And we're back back inside the feral zone.
• 42:25
  Speaker B: Oh, I like this.
• 42:26
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, these guys are great.
• 42:27
  Speaker C: This is awesome.
• 42:28
  Speaker A: Back with our guest host, the great Mr. Jeff Traffinger, and our terrific guest, the great Mr. Mr. Joe Gilini.
• 42:37
  Speaker C: Well, thanks for having me, man.
• 42:39
  Speaker A: Thrilled to have you. Now, Joe, I know you're not familiar with how this podcast works, but. But Jeff Traffinger has been here many times. Probably too many times for him, but I keep tracking him back. Okay, but you know, this is a listener supported operation that we have here. And you know, to that end, we have a PayPal and a Venmo link in the show notes of every show, as well as the Facebook posts that we use to promote it. And you can, our listeners, our devoted listeners will send in contributions to those links to pay for our cocktails, pay for our Arnold Palmers, our Shirley Temples, what have you. Also in the show notes, we have the links to the Patreon page where we have our handful of patrons who are still supporting us week in and week out. We love you. Also, check out the Troublemen podcast T shirts that we have the link to there. And as I mentioned last week, it's about six weeks till Christmas, so it's not too early to start placing your orders, is it? Six weeks, six months. I Meant to say weeks, months. Who knows, Jeff? That's why I had.
• 43:48
  Speaker C: No, no, no.
• 43:49
  Speaker B: I. I was like, I got to do something.
• 43:51
  Speaker C: Well, we're in Nick and Jake, so I sort of felt like that time.
• 43:55
  Speaker A: Time is elastic here.
• 43:56
  Speaker C: It is. It's relative.
• 43:58
  Speaker B: I don't even know that I'm on Earth.
• 44:01
  Speaker A: I know.
• 44:01
  Speaker C: We're actually in a hole in the space. Time continuum.
• 44:05
  Speaker A: Space station. I've heard about these places. Yeah, yeah. And what else? Yes. Follow us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, and rate, review and subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening to it. Give us five stars. Cost you. Nothing helps us a lot. And I want to mention a couple of dates I have coming up here and the. Actually the. The day that. That Joe's band's record is coming out. August 29th, the Katrina anniversary. Your. Your. Your next LP is dropping that day. Well, I'll be playing a show on the North Shore with Dave Easley at Ruby's Roadhouse.
• 44:46
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 44:46
  Speaker B: Something else is still there.
• 44:48
  Speaker A: Rubies is still there, man. Dave Easley's still there.
• 44:51
  Speaker C: That's awesome.
• 44:53
  Speaker A: And so I'll be doing that. Yes. August 29th at Rubies. The next night I'm playing with Ed Volker from the Radiators. Terrific show with. What is that trio? Mollusk will be. That's Saturday, August 30th at Chicki Wawa.
• 45:08
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 45:08
  Speaker A: And then, uh, our. My. My guest host, we have a show coming up with one of your bands, Tribe Nunzio, which is being reconstituted and. Or has been. And, and we're playing a terrific show at the broadside on September 19th.
• 45:23
  Speaker B: Yes, we are.
• 45:24
  Speaker A: That's going to be.
• 45:24
  Speaker C: Those are some great, great bands.
• 45:28
  Speaker A: I'm so blessed, Joe. God shines his face on me still. Yeah, Always has. It's been, it's been a continuous blessing, as they say.
• 45:38
  Speaker C: Well, it's that, you know, you're a great player. So it doesn't. Doesn't surprise me. But that's still like some choice. Choice lineup.
• 45:46
  Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. And I want to mention that it is Tiki Tuesday here at CJ Cruises Club Lounge.
• 45:54
  Speaker B: And ladies and gentlemen, Tiki Tuesday.
• 45:56
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's. It's been a big hit here. You know, it's like it's the summer doldrums and think, well, you know, people aren't going out. They don't have anything to do. But since they started Tiki Tuesday, it's been a steady build. Now we come in at 7:30 here.
• 46:11
  Speaker B: You got people at the bar where's Martin Demme.
• 46:14
  Speaker A: Well, you know, we love Martin Denning, but. And then here we have the. The duo that's always here on Tuesday nights. They have the. The guitar player and the, The. The chromatic button accordion. So it has that. That kind of French. Oh, now they're playing one of my favorite songs, the Girl Watchers theme. Nobody plays that song anymore except for these guys. I think it's actually called Music to Watch Girls By.
• 46:46
  Speaker C: Nice.
• 46:47
  Speaker B: Which I love this one.
• 46:48
  Speaker A: Is there any better kind of music than the music?
• 46:52
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 46:52
  Speaker A: Or I should say, isn't all music music to Watch Girls By?
• 46:56
  Speaker C: So true.
• 46:57
  Speaker B: Anyway, that's what music was invented.
• 46:59
  Speaker A: That's what it was invented by, far as I know. Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 47:02
  Speaker A: Okay, well, so check out those gigs and you can find all my dates on the Renee Coleman Facebook page or, you know, iguanas.com. all right, enough of that. Back to our guest, the great Mr. Joe Jellini now. So, Joe, you, You. You make it to New Orleans. You've been living. You've been nursing at the, at the. The aesthetic teat of New Orleans since you're in high school. That's a turn of phrase you weren't expecting, were you?
• 47:28
  Speaker C: No, but I think it's very apropos.
• 47:30
  Speaker A: Yes. Thank you.
• 47:31
  Speaker B: I wasn't even expecting.
• 47:33
  Speaker A: I like to catch. And I know you very well. All right. You know, you know. Well, you should know. You know, you never know what's going to come out here. So. So you've been studying, you've immersed yourself in all these different genres. The gospel, the Mardi Gras Indian thing. You get down to New Orleans and you fall right in with the Mardi Gras Indians. Well, we're gonna kind of accelerate a little bit. You don't have to go into details at this point. In Snake and Jake's, we're not going to stand on details.
• 48:07
  Speaker C: Spend too much time at Snake and Jake's. Before that, like, in that middle section, I was probably like, at Snake and Jake's a lot.
• 48:16
  Speaker A: Well, you know, I was going to say. I was going to point out a couple of things about, about Snake and Jake's and, and, and our podcast. And I would say, you know, as a guy in recovery, which you are.
• 48:28
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 48:30
  Speaker A: Snake and Jake's is often like the last straw. The, like the bottom. People's bottom right before they go into recovery. It's more than one person. And also this podcast is. Has on more than one occasion, been the trigger that sends people back out on a spree.
• 48:48
  Speaker C: Oh, God.
• 48:49
  Speaker A: So.
• 48:50
  Speaker C: Well, I'm I'm getting full of these topo chico, so I don't know if I have any. Any room in my.
• 48:56
  Speaker A: Anyway, we're going to walk you out.
• 48:58
  Speaker B: Very slowly, make sure you get.
• 49:00
  Speaker A: I'm just saying, you know, it's happened more than once on. You know, people come on the podcast and, you know, we make it look so good that.
• 49:08
  Speaker C: That's funny. Well, you should do it. You should do it at the end of the. You should have it at the very end of the night when, you know, people are like, yeah, I think I'm good.
• 49:17
  Speaker B: I used to deliver pizzas here.
• 49:19
  Speaker A: Oh, wow.
• 49:20
  Speaker B: When it was a Christmas club, you know, lounge.
• 49:23
  Speaker A: Oh. Before it was Snake and Jackson, before.
• 49:25
  Speaker B: It was Snake and Jack.
• 49:27
  Speaker C: I have some. I have some stories about this bar.
• 49:32
  Speaker A: Really?
• 49:33
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
• 49:34
  Speaker A: So let me guess. Let me. Let me just. Let me just do a cold reading here. You know how the. The. The. They used to do cold reading. Yeah, the psychics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna guess that you were here with Jun Yamagishi and Michael Ward and. No, no, no, I don't think Michael. I think maybe Michael was gone by then. Yeah, I'm guessing Jim Yamagishi and. Okay, well, you tell us, is it. Start with it with a G or a J?
• 50:06
  Speaker C: Trent Reznor. Trent Reznor.
• 50:09
  Speaker A: Trent.
• 50:10
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 50:11
  Speaker A: Now, how. How did you find yourself with Trent Reznor? Were you guys. Were you playing on any of those sessions?
• 50:17
  Speaker C: No, I was here at the bar drinking. I had literally just. I think it was 2000. It was probably October, November of 2000. And I found myself being belly up to the bar next to Trent Reznor.
• 50:34
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 50:34
  Speaker C: And Trent was, you know, indulging at the time. And I had this cockamamie idea because one of my friends that I was graduating with said he gave me a cd, and he said, if you see Trent Reznor down there, give him my cd. You know, trying to network.
• 51:02
  Speaker A: Okay. And kind of a long shot, but. All right.
• 51:04
  Speaker C: Yeah. So I. But I called him in Boston. I was like, hey, Bob. I went out, I stepped out outside. I called him. I was like, hey, man. Like, what do you want me to do? Like, he was like, yeah, I guess. I don't know. Like, just go talk to him. So he was walking out to his Porsche, and he was with a very attractive young woman. And I was like, you know, so green. I was like, trent. Trent kind of like waving my arms, flailing, coming up to him, and he looked at me and he goes, you were that. That was Hitting on my girlfriend at the bar, weren't you? And, and he goes into his leather jacket, into like a, to like grab his gun.
• 51:52
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 51:54
  Speaker C: And I was like, holy. And I looked and I just instinctually, you know, the door was open and I, I, I looked at his girlfriend and I just went to extend my hand and said, hi, I'm Joe. We haven't met before. And he goes, is this the guy? She said, no, it's not the guy. He said, oh, hey, just kidding. What's up? And he gave me. And I told him the story. I still, I don't know how. I was probably drunk, you know, and I had the gumption to continue doing that. And then he gave me.
• 52:25
  Speaker A: Well, he had the confidence from Berkeley, plus the alcohol.
• 52:28
  Speaker C: So he gave me his address and his phone number and he wrote it down on a piece of paper. He said, stop by anytime. And I was basically like, no way. You know, I'm like, that's, that's way too crazy for me.
• 52:44
  Speaker A: Right. Part of the magic of you went.
• 52:46
  Speaker B: From death to, you know, dining with stars.
• 52:51
  Speaker C: And then at the end of the drinking sort of movement was, you know, years, years later was basically, I was here and I was, we were, I was here with some friends and we, it was like, you know, the sun was coming up and I was incredibly drunk, and he was my buddy, was hanging out with these like, off duty undercover cops, which was a little sketchy to me.
• 53:26
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 53:26
  Speaker C: And they said, okay, let's go to Ms. Mays when they kicked us out of, you know, daylight here. And I said, I'm in no condition to drive a vehicle. And they said to me, it's okay. We will give you a police escort, but, but here's the only, here's the only catch. You know, we'll be, you'll be following us and we'll have, you know, like the right of way, but if you rear end us, you're fucked. We're gonna have to arrest you. And I was like. And my buddy's going like, do it, do it, do it. And I did it. It was, it was one of the more insane things I've ever experienced in New Orleans.
• 54:14
  Speaker B: New Orleans finest.
• 54:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. He had no. Well, you know, I wasn't speaking. I just. Since you told that story. I was at Michael Ward's house one time over in Holly Grove, and, you know, we're in his bedroom and I was just going to be there for a little bit, but, you know, there I was and there was a knock at the door and he goes, and opens up the door, and it's inside the house, and it's a uniformed New Orleans police officer. And I'm like, what the.
• 54:42
  Speaker B: Is his bedroom door?
• 54:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, his bedroom door. And he goes, oh, no, it's okay. It's a friend of mine. And he comes in and, you know, we wrapped up our business and I left and I told the guy goodbye, and he stayed and he did whatever he was doing with Michael. But it's New Orleans, baby.
• 55:00
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 55:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a different sort of gravity here.
• 55:04
  Speaker C: Yep, sure is.
• 55:05
  Speaker A: Well, getting back to your story, Joe, so. So you, You. You. You worm your way into the. The. The Mardi Gras Indian culture, and you go deep in. You. You. You find yourself at Indian practice with. With big Chief Monk Boudreaux, and you. And. And you're playing with these guys and. And talk about that. That must have been a dream come true.
• 55:29
  Speaker C: Sure. Well, you know, everybody knows about the Wild Magnolias and. Well, maybe everybody doesn't, but it's the. The group that started the Mardi Gras Indian funk movement.
• 55:42
  Speaker A: Well, now I'm gonna cut you off again because I like to do that.
• 55:45
  Speaker C: Yeah, go for it. No, yeah, you've got the right of way.
• 55:48
  Speaker A: Yes. Thank you. Now, but don't rear end and you've.
• 55:55
  Speaker C: Chop it up, chop it up, man.
• 55:57
  Speaker A: Stay heavy on the break. Well, I always like to leave a lot of room in front of me anyway. You know, I'm not. I don't like to tailgate anybody, but, you know, Quint Davis, founder of Jazz Fest, you know, many. So many things he's. He's done in his life, you know, and I always say, you know, if he had done just any one of those, as we say in Judaism, Dianu, it would have been enough.
• 56:24
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 56:24
  Speaker A: And. But. But correct me if I'm wrong, you've studied this more than I have, but I think the. The first iteration of a Mardi Gras Indian group getting together with a funk group is Wild Magnolias with Willie T. You know, Willie Turpenton on the advice on the suggestion of Quint Davis. You guys should play together.
• 56:52
  Speaker C: Absolutely. That was crazy, man. Yeah. The first single came out in. I think it was in 1969. It was actually Zigaboo on the drums, George French on the bass, and Quint put it together and, you know, as the story goes, as Quint has told me, he like, go. He was in college, and it would go to these bar rooms for Indian practice and bring a reel to reel, tape recorder, and you know, he'd record these guys, and then he had, you know, the genius idea of putting it together with, you know, a rhythm section. And eventually it was, you know, Willie T and the Gators basically backing up the Wild Magnolias and the Golden Eagles and they called it the Wild Magnolias.
• 57:46
  Speaker A: Band invented a whole genre. Just.
• 57:50
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, just absolutely epic. And, you know, I basically. I had gotten an opportunity to do some gigs with Monk, and I was just like, if I had gotten a gig with the Rolling Stones, it wouldn't.
• 58:06
  Speaker A: It wouldn't have been better.
• 58:07
  Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, literally, I was just like, that infatuated. So, you know, I started playing with him, and eventually I became his musical director for a little bit. And I was putting the bands together and, you know, rehearsing the bands and, you know, learning all. I went to the source. I went to. I literally went to Louisiana Music Factory. This is back when, you know, it was needed to have CDs. And I bought everything I could find. The Wild Magnolias, the Wild Chapatoulas, you know, the Donald Harrison stuff, all the sort of ancillary, you know, recordings that have been made with, like, you know, Rebirth and the Wild Magnolias. And anyways, I just. I dove into all of Monk's records, the Wild Magnolia Records, the Wild Chapatoulas.
• 59:01
  Speaker A: And Monk is haunted.
• 59:03
  Speaker C: He's haunted.
• 59:04
  Speaker A: He's coming from when he goes into the thing, goes into the trance.
• 59:08
  Speaker C: He's feeling the spirit.
• 59:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:11
  Speaker C: So he. And I was, you know, like, I was just eating up anything that I could get from him. And he said, you've got to learn how to play in the street. And. And I said, okay, well, what does that mean? He said, well, you got to go to Mardi Gras Indian practice. And I. I was like, well, what's that? And he said, you got to go hook up with Geechee. And so I went to Universal Indian practice uptown. It was at Honda, Won and Nora Wood, Geechee Johnson, who was the bass drum player for the Wild Magnolias, and incidentally, the first drummer that really brought the bass drum into the folds in the street. Because it had been like tambourines and cowbells and bottles and whatever other shakers or percussion, you know, handmade stuff. And Honey Bannister, who's the singer in Chawa, he was running it. And. And I just literally brought a bass drum and sat. Stood, stood next to Geechee and learned, like, just literally copied everything that he did. And he taught me everything that he, you know, that he. He did. And it was. You know, it sounds. It's like a.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker B: It's a.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker C: It's a relatively sort of like the jazz in regard to, like the. It's like, similar to, like a jazz cymbal beat. Like, it is not complicated, but the nuance is profound and. And really can, you know, differentiate like, an amateur from a. A master.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker C: And his feel was absolutely incredible. And I'm. I'm still. Years later, you know, I'm still realizing things that he would play from 15 years ago that I look at and I go, oh, that's what it was.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker A: It's still clicking for you?
• 1:01:16
  Speaker C: Yeah. And I learned how to, like. You know, the thing about Mardi Gras Indian music is that, especially with drummers is that it's like. It's not necessarily the. That challenging to play the rhythm, but to learn where the downbeat is and the pickup is with these things is, like, very difficult for a lot of people, even people in New Orleans, to be able to pick up. Because the way that. The significance of playing in the street, besides the cultural significance and the sort of, like the interactions of the, you know, the. The Indian tribes meeting each other and the chiefs meeting each other on the street and all the different interactions like that, it's really significant because the, you know, when the. The Indians do the call and response thing in the street, there's no one's counting you in, right? And they do it in a. They'll go from like a. This is very like, Berkeley technical, but they'll go from like a roboto sort of meaning no time for all. Yeah, the time is, like, sort of.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker A: Free and don't have tempo yet. A tempo?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker C: Yeah, they'll, you know, like, you know, like, I'm going downtown. I'm. And then they'll go, I'm gonna take them downtown. Hip hop. Good way. So you have to. It literally starts. People get turned around all the time.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker A: Where the phrase starts.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker C: Yeah, it starts on. It's a pickup on beat four. So it goes, take me downtown. That's four. And then you go into the. You go into downbeat from. But people often think, as I did when I first got there, that that beat is. The beat is the downbeat, which turns the time around, and you get some very sharp looks.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker C: But, yeah, I just dedicated. I mean, you know, I. I just was. The people there were just so incredibly kind and welcoming and, well, is generous with their time.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker A: You. You must have felt that when you move down here, it's like, oh, everybody, this is how people in New Orleans behave just in. In not just musicians, but just people in general, don't you think?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think that the. The thing about it, too, is that there's, you know, I often say that, like, the tradition is innovation here, because every style of music that's been born here, which is really the episode center of all of American music. Popular music. Yes. Ragtime, jazz, you know, rhythm and blues. I mean, even going back before that, like, literally. Like, literally, like John Philip Sousa marches, you know, like pre ragtime, all the way up to, like, you know, the first, you know, Cosmo Matassa recording, the first rock and roll records, you know, all the way up to bounce music and dirty, you know, south hip hop and, you know, anything that's, you know, that's relevant today. But the thing is, is that tradition is innovation. Innovation is the tradition. And, you know, like, all of these incredible styles of music. I think if you can go back and really honor the idea that to keep it alive, it has to be studied. You know, if you really respect the art form and you go back and you really dig in and you're doing it for the right reasons, I think, you know, whatever your social, religious, cultural, you know, background is. Is. Is, you know, immaterial if you're. If you're really approaching it and coming correct with it.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker A: Yes. Because this is all a divine pursuit. And. And the. This divine pursuit is universal. It transcends any particulars.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker B: It's reverence.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker A: Yes. Well, we're kind of getting to the downslope of the podcast because we. You have the gift of gab as to me and Jeff, but I want to get to your actual band. Chowa.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker A: So, you know, you guys. So you start Chowa. So you're. You're. You're apprenticing or, you know, spending all this time a deep dive with Monk. You're his music director. At some point, you decide, well, I want to start a band of my own.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker C: Yeah. It was sort of around the time I was playing. It was kind of, sort of a luck in a certain way, because Monk had rejoined the Wild Magnolias, and, you know, they had a famous sort of parting of the ways. So I wound up getting asked to produce Bo Dallas Jr's record with his dad, Bodala Senior, on it, which was the last stuff that he recorded. And I actually had Monk and Bo in the studio for the last time together and had them record together. And I, you know, I was cutting my teeth. I'd never produced a record before. And at that point, I. I sort of like Chawa it really honestly and truthfully, it came out out of selfishly wanting to play the music more because we would have gigs, but we weren't playing every week.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker A: Wasn't a regular gigging kind of.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker C: I mean, it was. It had, you know, we toured and we had different stuff. I. You know, and like, epic performances. Like, I. I played Bodalla Senior's last, you know, final live shows and, you know, and the song, he could. He could sing better than he could talk because he had had multiple strokes.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker C: And it was really like. I was just like, the guy hung the moon for me and I just wanted to be in his orbit. And so. But by doing all that, and it gave me a lot of responsibility to sort of like, you know, write some music and produce the album and be the music director. And around that time, because I had been so comfortable getting so comfortable getting different people, you know, getting the players that really understood the style and the music and everything. You know, Chawa started just sort of as a. Originally, as sort of just like a personal project that I wanted to. To play this music as much as possible. So eventually we, you know, sort of like, we're coming up in the ranks. We started at the very bottom. And then as we started playing festivals and kind of getting a little bit more of some notoriety playing bigger venues, you know, basically I got a great manager and he got me a great book agent. And then we, you know, a year later we were in the. Or less than a year later, we were in the studio recording our first record. And at that point, it was sort of like I. I had to. I gave my notice with the Wild Magnolias and Monk because it was getting too much for me to handle the response.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker A: You can't do everything.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker C: Yeah. So. But I have, like, tremendous respect for that. All those families and tribes and organizations that gave me my start. And I still look up to him to this day. And. And Chawa really just started like, you know, we just. We were. We were getting gigs, right. You know, and. And I was starting to kind of get into the idea that. It's funny because as a drummer, like, one of my favorite drummer jokes is what was the last thing the drummer said before he got fired at rehearsal? Hey, guys, I've got an idea for a new song.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker A: That's a good one.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker C: So sort of like close the loop, you know, like all that stuff from Berklee, which I swore I would never use at the time. I was like, I just want to play drums. I just want to be a drummer for the rest of my life. And then I had to start writing songs and music and come up with stuff like literally just out of, like, all right, put out a record. Got to put out another record. Then I was like, well, I can't just like cover Wild Magnolia, right. Wild Chapatoulas, you know, stuff. And there's only like a handful of the call and response things that you can kind of do on like a 10 song LP. So I started writing and co writing and, you know, getting more in that vein of things. And then by the second record, we got nominated for our first Grammy. Yes. And then we made another record and we got nominated for another Grammy. And then Covid happened and sort of like blew my life up as it did with many people. I don't know if you've heard of this global pandemic.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker A: I'm aware of it marginally.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker B: You know, I was out of town.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, Jeff was mostly out of town.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker B: Was out of town. I didn't see it.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that one didn't play at our local venue. So, you know, and I, you know, we went up, we went through some lineup changes and stuff like that. And basically I decided that I wanted to write the entire record myself. I mean, with co writers too, but, you know, just to be able to have my complete, like the statement be completely my baby.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker C: And so I got a chance to. We got a single coming out, why you gotta do me like that? Which is a song that I co wrote with the great guitar player and producer, Shane Terrio. Sure, Shane Terry. And we were able to get Irma Thomas to come sing on it.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker C: Which was a, you know.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker A: And she sounds better than ever.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker C: Oh my God.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker A: Her voice sounds as good or better than it ever has.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker C: And she, she came in and was like. She was a total, total professional. Sure. Not like, you know, prima donna. Not, not at all. I mean, she was like, I look, she was like, look, I want you to give me notes, I want you to produce me. I need to get some feedback here.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker C: And I was like, yes, ma'. Am.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker B: I'm about to produce Thomas.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker C: Yeah, totally. But we also did it with, you know, Donnie Markowitz. We did it at his studio at Mid City Sound.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker A: Irish guy.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker C: The famous Irish Markowitz.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker C: But I don't know if you know Donnie, but he's. He's been in New Orleans for, I think over a decade now. But he comes from a very serious Hollywood background. He got. He won the Oscar for Dirty Dancing. Time of My life. He. He wrote that. I mean he's. He's got like some legendary shots. Yeah, he's got a billion streams. So like he was there producing. He's a. You know, like he's one of my mentors.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker A: Oh, cool.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker C: And he was, you know, producing the vocal sessions for Irma and for John Butte and for a lot of the background vocalists.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker A: And so you have all the. All these kind of great guest vocalists on. On this record.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So I mean just working with Irma was. And. And John were just like absolutely phenomenal. And then, you know, basically, you know, so I co wrote or wrote or arranged every song on the record. And you know, it's all stuff that we're talking about. We sort of elevated a lot a little bit because like in the sense of like what the Wild Magnolias did at the time they came out in the early 70s and they. There was like very syncopated funk and kind of like disco and like all sorts of analog synths and this psychedelic funk stuff. And that was the music of that era. And we sort of wrote songs in the style of like, what is contemporary to us. And you know, it's not just call and response. Not that there's. I mean, by. One of my favorite records in the world is the Monk Boudreaux Live of the H and R bar, where it's just percussion and call and response. Right. Vocals. But you know, we. There's only so many times you can.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker C: You do that.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker C: And so this is sort of just like, I think the natural evolution of, you know, what's come before it, man.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker A: So cool. And that's again, that record's coming out August 29th.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker A: So you've released three singles, I guess two, two under the new singles coming out. But yeah, the record sounds terrific. Everybody look for that. And you guys have some. A few dates coming up. You're. You're gonna be. I noticed looked at your dates, uh, in September you're playing in Bo. Boise, Idaho and Brixton.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker A: London.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker C: Well, we're also playing in Paris.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. Lovely. Well, I feel like I'm in Paris right now.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker B: When are you in Paris?
• 1:15:22
  Speaker C: We are in Paris.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker A: Jeff is going to be over there, so maybe he's going to come.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker C: We are going to do. So the. The New Orleans Jazz Museum has been very supportive of our cause and Gallatin Records is part of that and we're partnering with them.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker A: Oh, cool.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker C: On some things. And so they have this event that. It's the first time that we've done it. But it's in. Will be in Paris on the. Performing on the 19th and 20th. It's just part of the band.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker B: Of what month? Of what month?
• 1:15:55
  Speaker C: September.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker A: Okay. 19th and 20th.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker C: So yeah, we're playing Paris on the 19th, 20th.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker A: And then we're playing right before you go to Brixton for all the Hammer Riots.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker C: Yeah, they were playing on the 21st of September in London.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker A: I was at the Hammer Riots in the 80s Brixton. Or I was there right after them, I should say a couple of days later.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker C: Good old. And then we. Then we.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker A: We could really swing a hammer in Brixton.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker C: Really could get away with murder. Then we come back and we're playing our album release party at Toulouse Theater. That's on Friday the 26th of September. Nice.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker A: Then you have a gig at Blue Nile on October 5th. I saw with Angelica.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker C: Oh, that was. That was last October.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker A: Okay. Sorry. It's okay. I'm. I'm not good with calendars.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker C: It's okay.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker B: You know, they end and they start again.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker A: Start again.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker D: Car.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker C: And this. The hole and the space time continue right here. There are no snake and jigs.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker A: So we. We have to wrap this up. But there's a couple of things I have to get to. To with you. We skipped over your whole recovery. I didn't get to hear your bottom story. All that, which is. I love. I love that we did it.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker C: We did it offline.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker A: But, but, but, but. Well, we'll get to that first. So the ninth step, which is making amends. Yes, that's the one. All my friends skip. The ones where they. Where they repay all the money. They ripped you off right when they were out there. They just seem to just. It's like. It's cool, right? It's like it's. It's. Sure, man, whatever.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker C: I mean, your program, alcoholics being alcoholics.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker A: We could just. Just skim over that one, right? It's like, hey, I forgot it a long time ago. This again. This is your recovery, man.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker C: They also have a program called Al Anon for friends and family of alcoholics.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker A: Oh, no.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker C: To get over your resoundance.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker A: I don't have any friends. I only have.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker B: I think every one of my wife's sisters has been in that.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker A: I only have my usual host who is here. One time I mentioned that, I said, well, you know, Manny, we're friends. He goes, we're not friends. He said, we're writing partners and drinking buddies.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker A: I said, okay.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker C: At least he's honest.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker A: I mean, I guess that's true. He goes, my friends, I call up with my problems. He goes, I wouldn't call up you with my problems.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker C: Brutal.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker A: No, I like it. I like it. So the other. So we. Now we've covered that. The other one is checking out your credits. Did you or did you not make a record with Louise Goffin?
• 1:18:48
  Speaker C: Oh, good question. Thank you. I did not been doing this a while. I did not perform on the. On the single. But we co wrote it.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker A: Oh.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker C: Which was a wonderful experience.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker A: So you. You were around Louise?
• 1:19:03
  Speaker C: Yeah, no, we. We literally. We were at.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker A: Dated Louise.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker C: No.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker B: I did.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker C: I'm happily married, children, so Louise is amazing.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker A: So to those of out in radio land that don't know who Louise Goffin is, she's Carol King and Jerry Goffin's daughters. So the two Brill Building golden children had a golden child, which is Louise Goffin, their only child.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker C: The funny part about this is that I'll try to make this long story short, since we gotta wrap it up, but basically I went to do a show at south by Southwest. My manager the time basically had us do a party there for the Buddy Holly foundation. And they. The guy that runs that foundation, or is it the, you know, board of directors? I'm not sure what his exact role was. Basically said like, look, I'd really like to hook you up and have you go to the South, Louisiana, you know, songwriting.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker A: Conference.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker C: Conference. Yeah. And this was back in 2019. And I went. And the way that they set it up is basically they're like four. Basically, it's like kind of Nashville style. You get four people, put them in a room. You get, you know, 25 each on the publishing, and you write a song and then you perform it that night. And so I really got into the, you know, into the song with Louise. And I had sort of. I'd come with some notes that I had, you know, written something the night before. And it actually, it was. The subject matter was that I was writing a song about my father and his new love affair with. That happened with my stepmother. And they met at one of my gigs after, like the summer after my mom died. And it was basically like, you know, the song's called My Love supreme. And it's basically sort of about the story of my dad. Just kind of like he. He, like 50 years old, he left this, like, incredibly successful career, retired and like, went and sailed around the Caribbean with my stepmother. And, you know, when they first got married and just really, you know, like, left of a situation that was like this very, you know, like, we lived in this upper crust neighborhood with this, you know, thing and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he really, like, just did his own thing and want and like, you know, lived his life. And the. So the. If you look at. Listen to the lyrics of the song, it really talks about how I think he was able to take all this pain and, you know, this terrible situation where my mother, you know, was sick for years and died. And he was able to, like. My mother told me on my back porch the year that she died. She said, I need to tell you something. If you're. If. If this. If something happens to me, I want you to encourage your dad to remarry. He is a wonderful, generous, kind person that deserves to have a loving partner.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker A: Oh, man. So he had great parents.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker B: Jesus, where do you find those?
• 1:22:59
  Speaker C: So. And that's. And that's what he did. And, you know, and actually my stepsister and I. Not at the time my stepmother is, you know, the mother of one of my best friends from high school, and I had. Hadn't met her until after my mom died. And so we were. We actually kind of like, set them up on, like, a little bit of a blind date.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker A: Very sweet.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker C: So the song that Louise and I. And there were two other writers on it, but, you know, I was feeling myself. I was like, you know, I'm just gonna go for it and kind of brought some of that. Some of those lyrics and the subject matter. And of course, you know, with any co write, the magic of it is being able to have, you know, the other writer take any of the ideas that you have that are, you know, that can't necessarily, like, coexist together or that aren't really, you know, make making sense as far as the direction or the form of the song. And we just had an absolute blast. And I had no idea who she was.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker C: I was literally, like. At one point, I was like. I, like, turned to one of the other writers who was like, man, this guy has, like a kind of like a cow king sort of like tapestry kind of vibe. And, like, the guy looked at me and was like, right. And I called my manager and he was like, who did you wind up writing with? And I said, man, she's awesome. Incredible writer, and she's, like, so fun, and we had such a blast. Her name's Louise. He said, louise who? I said, louise Goffin. And he was like, this is right before I'm about to go on stage with her to perform the thing in front of the entire conference, he goes, oh, you know, Goffin King. I was like, what do you mean? So he explains the thing to me. I was just like, oh, man. I really wish you had told me after we played, you know, couldn't you.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker A: Couldn't you have waited half an hour? Well, that's a great story.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker C: Thanks.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker A: Well, Joe, thank you so much for coming and doing this. Thank you, Jeff. This has been terrific. The whole second segment of this show was during the beautiful set that these two. These two guys played.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker B: Gorgeous.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker A: I think it. It sounded just right.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, it did. It sort of was a perfect soundtrack.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker A: Everything makes sense in.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker B: In Snake, wherever we are, whatever universe is, you know, this is you.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker A: Well, again, thank you so much, Joe. Everybody go look for Chowa, their new record coming out August 29, and point dates everywhere. And I am Renee Coleman for Manny Chevrolet, Jeff Traffer and the great Joe Jalaney. We are signing off from inside the Feral Center. Good night.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker D: Gave you a place to rest your head? Let you sleep in my own bed? Even gave you the shirt right off of my back? Why you want to do me like that? Gave you every last hour, every last dime? Even made you bail when you were doing time? You turn my house right into a shack? Why you wanna do me like that? Who needs friends when you got enemies like these? Heaven help em? Heaven help em please? Well, if you don't know now you're bow to learn. Cause every bridge I'm about to burn? You can scream and yell but step on back. Why you want to do it like that? I'm going to be your shadow every day? And if you try and run, I'll block your way? Going to rule the day you cross this cat. Why you want to do me like that? Why you wanna do me like that? Why you wanna do me like that? You need a friend when you got enemies like me? Yes, you will. Heaven help em? Heaven help X Walk the spot, twist it around? Knock on the door, Speak your wish out loud? Leave the GRE GRE on the ground. Why you want to do me like that? Why you want to do me like that? Why you want to do me like that? Why you want to do me like that?