Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Barry Stagner: Don’t Let The Wrong Voices Influence You

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Barry Stagner: Don’t Let The Wrong Voices Influence You · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Hey friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in, and especially for
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sharing the podcast.
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But most importantly, I think we can thank you for your prayers.
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Glory be to God for what he's doing here.
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So, and in part, because I get to talk to great people, like today's guest, Barry Stagner.
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He's the senior pastor of Calvary Chapel, touched and located in California.
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He does regular Q&As, round tables, conferences, discussing the truth about God and Bible prophecy.
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His latest book, The Time of the Signs.
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I said that right.
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The Time of the Signs, a chronology of Earth's final events.
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And over it is YouTube channel, The Truth About God.
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You can look them up there if you haven't already.
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I'm sure most of you are probably following Barry.
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Brother, thank you so much for your time today and welcome back.
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Thank you David.
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It's always a pleasure to be on with you.
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Yeah, so with guests, I always have an email exchange back and forth talking about what
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the body of Christ needs to hear, what's on your heart, the topics, and the big one,
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and it's going to be for a while, it's Israel, and how the American church responds and
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maybe hasn't been faithfully supporting God's chosen people.
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And there's confusion in the scriptures, and I think that's, you know, Barnabew would
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have tested that in all these other surveys where the American church is declining in
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biblical literacy.
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Before we jump into, we're going to touch on replacement theology and whatever else is
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on your heart.
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Is there anything you want to say like, overall, what you're seeing in America, maybe the
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church versus what's going on in Israel, anything you want to say off the top, Barry?
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Yeah, David, I think as we're watching things draw down to where the focus of world
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attention is on the nation of Israel.
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We have to remember that all this is prophetic, and you know, as you were talking, I couldn't
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help but think of the fact that we've got new terminology in these last days, much of
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it related to technology and social media platforms.
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We've got a group now that are known as influencers, and that's a good moniker for them, because
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they do have influence out there.
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Many have names of people following them.
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And what I think about with that reality today is that having, combining ignorance with
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a microphone is not always a good thing, and many people are being led astray today concerning
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the nation of Israel, two very popular social media platform people.
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Today Tucker Carlson and Candace Owen have spoken out, Owen's rather have spoken out
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about the nation of Israel, accusing them of being genocidal and things of that nature.
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And you know, David, I think we have to remember that Ezekiel 36 says that God was bringing
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them back into their land for his name's sake.
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And that's the whole point of the re-gathering of the nation of Israel.
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The Lord said, you know, every day the Jews are outside of the national homeland.
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I gave them my name being profaned, and he even told the Jews, listen, I'm not doing
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this for you.
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I'm doing this for my name's sake, and for the sake of my name's glory.
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So, you know, I really think that there is a sad state of affairs in much of the church
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today where, you know, just obvious biblical truth is overlooked or denied.
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And you know, I was kind of thinking about some of the things we've heard from the two
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I mentioned a moment ago where, and I say this without apology because the ignorance
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that has been expressed from that pair of influencers is a bit appalling.
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And I think one comment in particular makes a point where Candace Owen said, the Muslim
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quarter is a ghetto.
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Well, the Muslim quarter includes the temple mount.
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It is kind of a swatmeat-type atmosphere there in the heart of the city and has nothing
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to do with where the Muslims live.
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So the statement just showed gross ignorance of the reality of what takes place in the
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nation of Israel.
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So, who we listen to matters in these last days.
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So let's dive a little bit deeper into this, the ignorance, and the deception we're hearing
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from Candace Owen's and Tucker Carlson.
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And I want to ask you, Barry, how do you think, I know they rose to fame and they were
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working for some Christian or conservative outlets.
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Even Dennis Prager, Candace Owen's was, before I ask this question, though, I want friends,
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I want you to go back if you, on worldviewmatters.tv.
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Dr. Jake Jacobs and I talked about this not in depth, but we did mention some of the
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influences, especially of Candace Owen's on a podcast about a week or so ago called
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Carlson Candace and Doctrine of Demons.
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And we call that out.
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And we need to continue to call that out.
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Why?
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Because they influence millions, millions of people who probably most of them don't understand
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scripture, don't have a biblical world view, and we'll believe what they say because
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they're fans.
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That's dangerous.
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So how do you think the church, Barry, got to the place because there's a lot of Christians
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that follow Tucker Carlson and Candace Owen's and there's different categories of Christians
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as you and I know, but it's, we're in a dangerous place because of what they're talking about.
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How do you think we got to that point where people are believing them and what they're
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saying about Israel, which is demonic, Candace Owen's calls Israel and the Jews demonic,
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but we're saying my goodness, look at her and what she's saying.
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But people are following these two, can you share a little bit about that?
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Right.
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Yes, she called them a cult, called Israel a cult.
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And I think part of the problem here is the avoidance of teaching Bible prophecy and
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the whole Council of God.
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And when you study Bible prophecy carefully, what you're going to find is that the
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whole world is moving in a singular direction where Israel is going to take center stage.
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Zechariah 123 says the whole world is going to siege Jerusalem as a burdensome stone.
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And that means world attention is going to be focused on the nation of Israel.
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We're moving in that direction.
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And rather than rejoicing in the fact that we're watching Bible prophecy be fulfilled
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right before our eyes, people are turning against the nation of Israel out of again.
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Just ignorance of what the Scripture actually says.
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You know, David there is an unfinished business with the nation of Israel from Daniel chapter
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9 because there are 69 of the 70 heptads that have been fulfilled that were declared
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for Daniel's people and the Holy City.
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That would translate as the Jews of Jerusalem.
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And the 70th week is yet unfulfilled.
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So I think one of the grave dangers of replacement theology is that it requires the portions
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of the Bible are in error because if God has done with the nation of Israel, if the
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church has replaced the nation of Israel, or if he has simply cast aside or has somewhat
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argued the church is a continuation rather than a replacement, how did the 70th week
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of Daniel get fulfilled?
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There was the one that was to be revealed, the Prince of the people who was to come.
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When is that fulfilled?
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Where did that man take place and the world follow after him?
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So it pokes major holes in Scripture.
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And when you start doing things like that, you're in big trouble.
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And when you poke a hole in Scripture, you've opened a window for doctrines of demons.
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Amen, brother.
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And I think this is helpful to a lot of people who maybe haven't visited this in a while.
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And I want to mention the last phrase or the last sentence in Zechariah 123, and all
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the nations of the earth will be gathered against it, against Jerusalem, right?
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And that's, we're seeing that already.
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And we've just assumed that America would always support Israel.
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I think we're seeing a shift not necessarily in the administration, of course, that we
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have now currently praise God.
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But in the nation itself, and people vote, elections have consequences.
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Who knows what's going to happen in the midterms next year, and in the next presidential
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election.
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But let's go back to replacement theology, Barry, and try to break this down for people who
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don't understand, because it's pretty confusing if you've read the Bible for a while, and
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you go, wow, there are people that believe that the church has replaced Israel.
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How do you understand when God talks about the Old Testament ever-lasting covenants?
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How do you explain that away?
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Let's start right there.
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You go all the way back to the Deuteronomy, and you see, unconditional everlasting covenant
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made with the nation of Israel, the Jewish people, and the land that God had given them.
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And that particular phrasing is peppered throughout the whole of the Old Testament.
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You'll find it mentioned in revisited time after time.
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And I think one of the problems that we're going to debate the issue, I think if the churches
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replaced Israel and all of the unfulfilled promises made to Israel, are now applied to
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the church, that means the church is going to go through the tribulation, the time of
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Jacob's trouble, and all the other things that are foretold regarding the experience of
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the nation of Israel during the 70th week of Daniels.
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So you can't take this cut and paste approach, David, to scripture, and say, well, all the
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blessings now apply to the church, but none of the foretold problems or catastrophic
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events that are foretold for the nation, including two-thirds of the Jews dying during the
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tribulation, now apply to the church.
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It just doesn't fit, David.
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It doesn't make any sense.
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It's completely inconsistent with the biblical narrative.
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Let's talk about that.
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How I'm sure you've talked to people, maybe even some pastors who have gotten this wrong
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on replacement theology, how do they explain that the church can inherit the blessings,
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but the curses don't apply to us?
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How do they explain that or defend that?
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Well, they don't.
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Well, there is no defense for it.
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And David, it's interesting because so often, you know, we see places like, you know,
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where God has said, I'm going to scatter you among the nations, and this has looked
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at as a permanent status, and you know, the Lord did scatter them amongst the nations,
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but he also, I think, one of the most beautiful things that is often overlooked too, is the
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fact that, you know, the Lord promised, he told the Jews that my thoughts toward you are
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peace and not of evil to give you a future and hope in Jeremiah 1210.
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And you know, the interesting part about this is the previous verse says, I'm sending
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you into captivity for 70 years for your disobedience.
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So, you know, that tells us that God disciplines his people.
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Even as Hebrews reminds us of, you know, our own experience, that those whom the Lord
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loves, he chastings, and he scourges every son whom he receives.
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And the fact is, if God can cast off his chosen people, the Jews, well, the New Testament
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calls the churches chosen people too.
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So do we then, what do we do with the promise of Ephesians 113, where we're told we have
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a guaranteed future inheritance, which is proven by the presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling
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in us, as temples of the Holy Spirit.
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So again, if you just let the scripture, the whole council of God, and scripture and
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interpret scripture, you're going to be in a far better place to understand these things.
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Instead of going off in some of these tangents that many, sadly, Bible interpreters have
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followed by isolating certain passengers.
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And they explain away the supernatural fact that Israel came into the land 2,000 years, you
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know, over the past 2,000 years, despite other nations and attempts to destroy them.
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And then in 1948, wow, miracle.
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But what about Romans 9 through 11, particularly when I think it's, is it nine when it talks
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about the, the, we will be grafted in or they will be grafted in it.
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I don't remember.
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I'm just paraphrasing how it's worded.
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How do they suggest so the church is completely separate from Israel?
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Is that their view then?
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Yeah, and that's a great point, David, because how do you be grafted into nothing?
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Yeah.
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I mean, if God has done with them, if they're the root, if you sever the root, then the
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branches are going to die.
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So again, you know, this all points to what the Bible talks about.
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You were mentioning Romans 9 through 11, all Israel is going to be saved.
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But we need to interpret that through Zachariah 12 to 14, where we're told, during the
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tribulation, 2 thirds of the Jews are going to die.
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And then Zachariah 12, 10 says that at the second coming, there's going to be a third
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of the Jews that survived who look upon the one whom they pierced and mourned for him
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as one mourned for the only son.
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And this is a salvation of all Israel.
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God is going to supernaturally protect them.
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He's going to, you know, basically, use 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each tribe, male Jews
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to proclaim truth to the nation of Israel as well as the rest of the world during the
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tribulation.
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But I think we have to remember that not everybody who hears the gospel receives the gospel.
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So even though these 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each tribe, are proclaiming truth to their
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brethren, their countrymen, with the same kind of burden that Paul had for his own countrymen,
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that doesn't mean that everybody's going to receive the mishap in David as their Savior
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and Lord.
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And they'll reject Jesus during the tribulation for the same reason, that they did back
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in the time that Jesus walked the earth.
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He wasn't what they wanted him to be.
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We're not looking for someone to judge them.
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They're not looking for someone to save them.
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Many were just looking for someone to acknowledge who they were, as God's chosen people, and
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get them out from under the hand of an oppressive Roman regime.
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So not a whole lot has changed down through the ages in some capacities.
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But David, things are, I believe, wrapping up real soon in the 70th week of Daniel is
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on the horizon.
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Agreed.
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We've got to take a brief pause.
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We need to dive into this a little bit more when we come back because there's also confusion
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about what does that mean, all Israel and when, when will they be saved?
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And what does saved mean, saved from sin, saved from destruction?
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Let's talk about that in a minute with Barry Stagner on World View Matters.
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Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily.
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Stay informed at harbingersdaily.com.
15:26
So Barry, well, first before we jump into this again, I want to mention your YouTube channel,
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The Truth About God, and you did, you do many podcasts with Amir Sarfati.
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Well, you've been talking about the Palestinian state a lot.
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And what have you been, what have some of the discussions been about recently if you
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can just sum it up for us?
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Well, I think one of the main things to remember, it's an adage that I can't remember
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who floated at first, but it's basically, the Palestinian has never missed an opportunity
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to miss an opportunity.
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And you know, throughout the course, all the negotiations, the land that they have been
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offered, that they refuse as part of a negotiated deal, releasing the hostages, all those things
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are never going to do that simply because that's their ace in the hole, so to speak.
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And as soon as they release the hostages, well, they know their demise is on the near
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horizon.
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So they're not going to release them.
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They'll never come to the bargaining table because of the two negotiating groups, there's
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only one who does not want, you know, this shared landmast.
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The Palestinians have no desire to see a nation of Israel alongside a nation of Palestine.
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And so, you know, again, this is going to go nowhere.
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And I think the strange thing to me, David, is how many Western leaders just can't see
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it.
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And you can't see, you know, the actions of the Palestinians and Hamas and the reality
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that, you know, the two-state solution in their mind, how they teach their children
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in elementary school age classrooms to hate the Jews.
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So it's not, you know, ever going to go anywhere for the world wouldn't like it to go.
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And that's not because of Israel.
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But you know, David, it's pretty curious to watch some of these developments on these
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platforms that we talked about at the top of the show.
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Because the reality is this is dealt with, this whole Palestinian issue is dealt with
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quite simply if we understand the word Palestinian or Palestine.
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You know, this is Hadrian, the Roman Emperor.
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This is his effort because of a man named Barclqwa who led a revolution.
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He was kind of a misdiagnetic figure in ancient Israel and Hadrian who, you know, actually
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had plans to rebuild the temple after its destruction in 70 AD.
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And because of these constant revolutions, he finally got tired of it for a bit tour
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reading in, you know, the circumcision, the other practices of the Jews.
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And Barclqwa led a revolution against him.
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And because of that and because of all the things that Hadrian did to quilts this revolution,
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he renamed the area after the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines.
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Now the Philistines were from Greek.
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They were Greek ethnically.
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The way you say Philistine in Latin is Palestinian.
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So the Palestinians really are pointing back to the Philistines who are Greek or at least
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Creighton in nature.
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And we know that the modern Palestinians are not Greek.
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They are not Creighton.
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They are Arabs and everybody calls them Arabs.
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And the Arab countries are called upon to support them because they have no relation
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with the ancient Philistines whatsoever.
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And David, one last thing here, the interesting part about the word, Alistina or Philistine
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is that the word means invaders or immigrants.
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So who's invaded the land?
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Israel didn't take anything from the ancient Philistines.
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It was their land that the Philistines actually invaded.
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So this is kind of off topic.
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It's a little miraculous, I think, that with all the demonic forces and the misinformation
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that's coming against Israel, they are still, I mean, there's still some hope for the
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church to maybe more people wake up in the church.
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And we're talking about the media, we're talking about the education system, different
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countries and people who have no idea about world history and who have believed the
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talking points and the lies and the deception is really miraculous that they are still as
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strong as they are, they are still, you know, they are going to be on their own one
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day.
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And that's a frightening thought if you're an American to think that our country will
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be part of this deception, this turning against Israel.
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I'm sure you guys talk about that as well.
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And we do, and it's interesting.
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We've got this little landmass of 8800 square miles that is the focal point of the whole
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of the world.
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And it's interesting, David, just last year, Iran and Israel traded places on the global
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scale of military might.
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And Israel took place number 16, was formerly held by Iran as far as the strength of their
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military.
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And Iran slipped down the number 17, so you've got this little tiny piece of land that's
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so small on a world map, you have to write the name out in the Mediterranean.
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And yet here they are, the 16th strongest nation in the world.
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They've got the 8th strongest economy in the world as well.
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And that has to be gone.
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Just no way.
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With everybody being against you and everybody turning on you to see this land flourish and
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become that land flowing with milk and honey, which is, you know, basically a metaphor
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for being prosperous.
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And we're seeing their economy just boom.
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And even though, you know, tourism was shut down during much of the COVID situation, and
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now you've got a war going on that has shut the country down and much of the tourism
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down.
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And if they continue to flourish, and again, that has to be the hand of Almighty God.
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He has a pull this hand from them.
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They are still as chosen people by birth.
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The church, I believe, is God's chosen people by faith.
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And someday all Israel is going to be saved at the second coming of Christ when they look
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upon the one whom they pierced.
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You know, a lot of the argument, Barry, we hear is there are certain parts of the Bible
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that are figurative or symbolic.
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We hear that.
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And we talked briefly before we got on today about Revelation 21 through 7.
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So both the Old New Testament support this dispensational understanding of God's plan
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for Israel and Revelation 21 through 7, it's 6 times it says that Christ's kingdom will
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last 1000 years.
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Again, Barry, how do they misread that or get that wrong?
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Is it just, I don't know, I know it's deception, but what are your thoughts on that?
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When you allegorize the whole book, because you just don't see anything beyond 70 AD,
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still hanging out there except for the second coming, then you have to do that with portions
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of scripture that are clearly literal.
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And David, I think the test for what you just mentioned, it's the same Greek word that's
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the Latin word is milli annum, 1000 years, milli annum.
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And you find that same word used also by Peter when he talks about to the Lord a day is
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as a thousand years and a thousand years a day.
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Now that only makes sense if it's taken literally, and it's the same Greek word, so it should
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be taken literally at the end of Revelation there that Jesus is going to come back.
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He is going to rule from Jerusalem, he's going to sit on David's throne, which is the
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throne of human government, and he's going to rule the nations with a rod of iron for
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a thousand years.
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So kind of meshing this together with the replacement theology mindset, if God is done
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with the nation of Israel, then why is Jesus coming back to the Mount of Olives?
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Why is he going to rule and reign from Jerusalem for a thousand years?
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And on top of that, the proverbial nail and the coffin of that kind of thinking for me,
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David, is why is the city that descends out of heaven called the New Jerusalem?
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If God is done with the Jews and Jerusalem, it just doesn't make any sense.
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It doesn't.
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There's so much, I mean, you have to do theological gymnastics for lack of a word to try to put
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some of this together, and it's just sloppy, very sloppy and irresponsible theology.
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So now, back to briefly a couple of minutes left, Barry Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens
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and many others, like them who are influencing a lot of people, have got this wrong.
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What can you encourage believers who are watching and listening to this podcast to respond
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to this?
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Because there's so much out there that it's just people buy it and believe it.
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So how can we respond to some of this?
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David, I think the first response is quite simplistic.
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Don't confuse popularity with accuracy.
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It's sadly a lot of this script in the church that the anointing of God is measured by
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the number of people in the seats, and that's simply never been true.
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And it's certainly not true of accepting somebody's particular interpretation of some
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of the biblical passages, and especially I think Candace Owens, being Catholic, they
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allegorize the book of Revelation.
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So of course, she's going to do that.
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Of course, she's not going to see a place for the nation of Israel.
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So just because somebody has a big following doesn't mean they know what they're talking about
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when it comes to the word of God.
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So David, a mere night here, everywhere we go, I can't find a church to teach his Bible
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prophecy.
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So I think really what needs to happen is for people who have found a church where the
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pastor is not an erotic or lunatic, and is talking about the things that the Bible teaches,
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but avoids Bible prophecy.
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A lot of times, guys do that because it's not easy.
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It takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of homework to stay on top of these things.
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But if you can't find a church that teaches Bible prophecy and the whole Council of God,
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then go to the church that teaches the Council of God, even though they may leave Revelation
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out and don't study Daniel.
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And supplement online, I think that's one of the few positives of the internet age that we
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live in.
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You can find good, solid teaching, but I would also say that with a caveat.
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Be careful.
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Yes.
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Don't listen to anybody and everybody, because there's some goofballs out there in the realm
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of Bible prophecy that are giving misinformation as well.
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So we need to be cautious in who we listen to.
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Amen, brother.
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And as you said, just because influences with mass followings does not mean they're right
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or accurate in what they're saying.
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Even churches, particularly some of these big mega churches with secret sensitive, outreaches
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they might not be accurate as well.
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So friends, when, if and when you feel the need to approach your pastor, always do it
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with love and respect and maybe, maybe you'll get through to him.
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But that's for another podcast, Barry.
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It's great talking about this.
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We are going to be having these conversations for a long time.
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I heard another brother on a recent podcast say Israel is now the dividing force in the
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American church.
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And I don't think he's wrong about that.
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I think we're going to have to continue to defend the truth, the whole Council of God,
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as you said, biblical prophecy.
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And as Olivia Melanick was on the podcast, I said, how do we overcome this?
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What's one of the solutions?
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And he said it's simple.
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Three words.
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Read your Bible.
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So I think we're going to get people to do a little bit more of that.
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Brother, thank you for your time.
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Friends, I didn't give the website, BarryStagner.com.
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He's also on YouTube.
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You can follow his great podcast.
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Brother, thank you for your time again.
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Lord willing, we'll talk again soon.
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My pleasure, David.
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Thanks for having me.
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And friends, we appreciate you guys so very much for your prayers and sharing the podcast.
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And bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.