Latest / The Swan Effect - Creating and Sustaining Your Financial Wellbeing / S3E7 Who runs the world? Girls!

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S3E7 Who runs the world? Girls! · The Swan Effect - Creating and Sustaining Your Financial Wellbeing

• 0:00
  Malika Petersen: Your legacy is about more than just investment returns. It's about the peace of mind that comes with knowing that you partnered with an investment manager who has the right skills and experience to grow your wealth. Old mutual wealth is a world class investment destination offering you a wide range of investment strategies and specialist wealth management solutions. Together with your financial planner, we model a strategy around your specific need, supported by a multi skilled team dedicated to taking your wealth further, whether your goal is to grow your wealth, generate income or preserve capital, we select the best and most suitable investments based on your investment strategy and our extensive research and insight.
• 0:49
  Malika Petersen: Our mutual wealth is an advice led wealth management business aimed at providing financial planners and their clients with a full suite of industry leaning strategies and services. For more information, please visit our website www.oldmutual.co.za/wealth
• 1:20
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Hi there. I'm Arthi Rabikrisson,
• 1:23
  Malika Petersen: Hello, I'm Malika Peterson.
• 1:25
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Welcome to
• 1:27
  Malika Petersen: The swan effect podcast.
• 1:29
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Money makes the world go round, yet it's not so easy to understand its complexities, particularly when it comes to investing.
• 1:38
  Malika Petersen: That's why Arthi and I are using this platform to educate, inspire and help you gain confidence in your relationship with money
• 1:46
  Arthi Rabikrisson: so that you can better manage your finances and investments.
• 1:51
  Malika Petersen: We are two women in finance.
• 1:53
  Arthi Rabikrisson: That's pretty cool, isn't it?
• 1:55
  Malika Petersen: It certainly is. You've been in stockbroking, private wealth management, asset management, and now an award winning businesswoman who is coaching and assisting businesses with capital and strategic advice.
• 2:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And Malika, you have a wealth of experience in wealth excuse the pun, in financial planning, investments and relationship management. So you're also at the coalface, when it comes to where and how people are investing, both getting it right and getting it wrong,
• 2:27
  Malika Petersen: and stuck in the gray areas too. Indeed, I've seen the many phases and moods of financial cycle and how our decisions at those times impact us. So listeners and subscribers, if you are looking to get unstuck, feel empowered and make some strides in how you tackle your money, we are here to help you,
• 2:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: and it all starts with listening to this upcoming episode. Enjoy.
• 2:56
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Hello, listeners. It is the beautiful month of August, a month that I must add that has a huge impact for women in South Africa as we celebrate Women's Day on the ninth of August. But of course, more broadly, the month of August is squarely focused on highlighting issues that women still face, and also to showcase those opportunities too. In this episode of The Swane Effect podcast, we'd really like to focus on those opportunities. So how about looking at the role of women in financial empowerment of their households and communities?
• 3:33
  Arthi Rabikrisson: After all, who really runs the world? It's definitely us girls.
• 3:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: When Malika and I started this podcast, everyone we spoke about our mothers and grandmothers and how they were actually able to stretch that money, that Rand, to ensure that everyone had what they needed at home, right, and even to the wider community as well. The reality is, is that women can take what they're given and really grow it organically. So by the same token, then everyone, if we financially empower women more, there would be an organic increase in economic empowerment and perhaps even quicker results regarding how we actually get that economic engine to kick itself into gear. What do you say Malika?
• 4:18
  Malika Petersen: Hi Arthi hi listeners, yes, I absolutely couldn't agree more. I mean, I've seen this happening in my own family, Arthi and you have right now. Now imagine each and every family having this opportunity, because the women in the household could do so. I mean, the impact would just be huge. And that is why I think this is the topic that we need to get critically in 2024 still, about half the world population is female,
• 4:46
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yes.
• 4:47
  Malika Petersen: And the sad part is that an estimated 342 million women and girls will be living below the poverty line by 2030 this is according to the United Nations, right?
• 4:58
  Arthi Rabikrisson: That's an awful fact
• 4:59
  Malika Petersen: So it's an absolutely awful fact, and it also tells us that urgent action is absolutely emperative now, while we might want to solve global property right here, now, yes, our podcast has always been about the small, practical action that our listeners can take. Uh huh, like we've said before, even skyscrapers are built one brick at a time.
• 5:25
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, so let's get right into it then, Malika, let's talk about why financial education and empowerment is so important for women. At a recent forum that we both attended, there was a lot of discussion around financial advice and how women interact with that advice. Okay, there was also a key component in that discussion about empathy and inclusion, which I always find very, very interesting. I think the thing that really piqued my interest was around how few women are engaged in the advice process with their partners. So traditionally, men have had basically the financial planning, the risk cover, all of those types of discussions with their financial advisors in isolation. And the biggest challenge with this is that women have a higher, ever, actually a 50% higher mortality rate than men. What that means, yeah, what that means is that the chances are of your spouse, of your partner, of your husband, passing away before you do is actually 50% higher, right? And of course, now it means you're not familiar with the financial advisor. You have not met as a woman. You've not met the financial advisor. You don't have any kind of a relationship with them. Now, imagine relying on a person that you don't know in your greatest time of need. I mean, that would be so difficult and of course, causing unnecessary stress in an already stressful time.
• 6:54
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Financial Planning everybody should be a process where both your husband and your wife partake in it. Ensures that both parties are comfortable with the financial advisor who will be that key individual assisting you with that administrative tasks that are necessary around death. And of course, I mean, let's not just talk about death, but also throughout the partnership, the marriage in place, yeah, it ensures that both partners are comfortable and they understand the estate plan. Now, I must say, there are many, many occasions where I bounce my business and other ideas off my husband. And of course, I just find that having a second set of eyes, let's call it, that helps me to consider a perspective that I may not have seen before, and that, for me, is such a great benefit. And I'm sure you do the same Malika as well. So those financial goals that we set as a couple then directly impact the legacy that we want to leave. So both of our opinions, both of our views, I believe, are quite imperative.
• 7:53
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We spoke about this in the youth month episode as well, about the kind of blueprint we're leaving for our children, right? Who will mirror those behaviors when they get older? Okay, so if I look at and if I contrast, if I look back just one generation, my own parents, from a financial planning perspective, it's actually been far more my dad's responsibility to interface with the financial advisor and make, I suppose, the proprietary decisions on investment products. My mom, historically, has not been in those conversations. However, I must say, even though she's not in the conversations, she's somehow taken it upon herself to still be very clued up about what is there? Why is it there? So she does ask a lot of questions.
• 8:35
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, that is that generational difference that I think we're trying to allude to, Malika about that balance potentially even still being skewed now, and I mean me as their child, I check in often to ensure that my mom is up to speed, that they're jointly still making those decisions about their cash needs, their investing and consumption behaviors as well.
• 8:53
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So trying to ensure that, I mean, they're coming to an age where we don't want to talk about it, but they're aging, some of these things are going to come to fruition. So really want to ensure that the balance is there, and there's a comfort about should something happen, both parties are in a position to ensure that they can talk to a financial adviser. What do you say to that Malika?
• 9:14
  Malika Petersen: I'm glad that you brought up kind of the point of children's perspective. So I mean, Arthi, being with it being for your own child, but also you being the child to your parents, right? Spoke about this in our June episode, how our youth need to have the kinds of conversations with their parents so that they can have better investments and that they make better financial decisions. I absolutely love that.
• 9:40
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ah Malka, I'm having a bit of a giggle, because I love how you're inadvertently calling me a youth. I love it
• 9:48
  Malika Petersen: Arthi you are young, and we'll always be young at heart. On a serious note, like, let's consider financially empowerment. In education, especially for our girl children. I want to talk about our girl children because obviously, it's women's month, and we want to make sure that we're covering that. Yes, about 46% of employees in the financial sector are women. Now that's a relatively good number.
• 10:12
  Malika Petersen: Women also make up 53% of the entry level banking or workforce It's not great because nearly 50% of the world is female, but Right? 46% are women. However, only 15% of those occupy executive roles. Now this is a shocking statistic, especially when you consider that we make up half of the world's population. Yes, and there's also two reasons why it's really, really important to focus on educating our girl children. A recent study by Forbes magazine found that even in 2024 women are still earning 16% less than men on average.
• 10:49
  Malika Petersen: Now significant, yeah, that surprised me. I must admit, I didn't think the gap was still so big. What this essentially means is that it does require additional effort for a woman to create a financial legacy or build a financially free future.
• 11:06
  Malika Petersen: Some of the other kind of stats that shocked me from that study was that around one in four working women, which is it was actually 26% right? Which is actually more than one in four, but yeah, yeah, they're not contributing to their retirement. Ah, and among working women that are saving for their retirement, it is 30% of them don't know how much they actually need to retire comfortably. Now, 20% of men don't know the same thing. But when you understand that 30% of women don't understand this, and as we've spoken before about how in in the state. So the stuff I gave you earlier on about the the woman, very much, is kind of the person that organically grows financially or things within the home. So that's very important, because we're also responsible for education, they have to ensure that women understand this so that they are able to relay that to children.
• 12:12
  Malika Petersen: financial sector that's kind of realigned more or less in the state, but again, less than 1/3 of physicians at a senior level.
• 12:20
  Malika Petersen: Then nearly half of women reported that they are actually confident about their finances.
• 12:25
  Malika Petersen: So 48%
• 12:28
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay,
• 12:29
  Malika Petersen: Although only 28% of them felt that they were empowered enough to take actions and they were confident that they understood, but they didn't feel empowered enough to take action, which shows you that there's a massive gap between actual physical understanding.
• 12:42
  Malika Petersen: And again, this relationship between the financial adviser and women, they would have found more confidence to take action if they had a better relationship with, okay, okay, then kind of just over half of women are confident with managing investments, but less than half of them are comfortable creating a diversified portfolio. Now this that links back to where we spoke about kind of a diversified portfolio. In the past, we've spoken about inflation, beating returns, the importance of that, and it is important that women understand, or alternatively know exactly where to go, like the financial advisor to help them with that understanding, yes, yes. The second reason that financially empowering our girl children is very important is because of the marriage contract. Now, in South Africa, traditionally, most couples were married in community of property. Most of our parents are married in community of property. Yes. Now, while this kind of still remains the default in the absence of anything else. There are other marriage contracts that should be considered in order to protect both parties divorce now, yes, yes, we've spoken about how things are just different today, right? The evolution happens. Things change. In a recent study has shown that 39% of marriage is ending divorce. As we know, a significantly higher than the previous generation. So it just makes sense to ensure that you are financially protected by making sure that you have the right marriage contract.
• 14:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Definitely.
• 14:17
  Malika Petersen: Am I even proud to say that as South Africa, we've achieved gender parity in the attainment of tertiary education in 2020. Actually very bright, and I'm very proud of that, as in South Africa.
• 14:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: No, definitely we have to take that to be proud of where we are winning. But then, as you've just opened our eyes with all of these kind of stats around, where are we actually starting to fall short, and how do we actually claw our way out of that? So I think sometimes in the narrative and in the conversation, it's often lost about the benefits around empowering females, and what does it actually mean, and what are some of those practical steps that can be taken? We are very practical on the show, everybody. We really like to take it down to that level. So let's just talk a little bit about that. What are some of those benefits, and then we'll look at the practical steps from there. So even though, as you're saying, Malika, women account for about 40% of the South African workforce, and is there, earning on average, 16% less than men, women are still estimated to contribute two thirds of the economy's discretionary spend. I mean, look at that, right? Sure. And in South Africa, we have what's known as the it's huge. It's definitely huge, Malika and, I mean, that's more the formal, right? Economy. Now we've also got the kasi economy as well, which is basically the more informal one everyone, which is said to create approximately 1/3 of jobs in South Africa. That's a significant number as well.
• 15:45
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And also, these are largely driven by women of color. Yeah.
• 15:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, so this shows us, everyone that women are essential in driving the economic growth of the country, and it's actually highly beneficial that we spend time and resources empowering women to ensure that this innate ability to grow the economy is catalyzed with financial literacy and of knowledge. All right, so let's consider an example, Malika, of a very typical informal business that makes up the kasi economy. So a woman may start a small business looking after young children while their parents are at work.
• 16:25
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, so this may start off with maybe one or two kids that she takes care of from her home.
• 16:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay? Now, if we empower this particular woman with financial literacy, with business skills, and then she might be able to buy some educational toys for the kids. Eventually might be able to employ staff, expand premises, or actually rent, maybe even buy, at some point, additional premises for the business. Look at this kind of snowball effect as a result of just that literacy and that education. Word then spreads, she gets more clients. Goodness, how amazing to be able to grow this little business with more children. Now let's also think about what kind of an impact this actually has on her community. One, she's going to start to invest in the training required to provide those children with care, proper care, with either maybe foundational or preschool education, and that's going to set them up for success when they do go to formal school. Okay? So look at that now, and this is definitely, you know, this is more than what we would have had in the past, right? So you're definitely moving the dial and moving the needle there.
• 17:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Secondly, she would be creating jobs in her community, because if she's bringing on staff, she's employing people that's now going to have another kind of impact, because her staff are going to be empowered and educated and be able to provide better for their family. Right?
• 17:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Three, right? The third one, she then creates the need for space and premises that will be cleaned up. It'll be set up in a particular way to accommodate a really friendly environment for the kids to thrive in this, of course, is going to bring on other types of jobs, in terms of builders, painters. What about toysmiths, cleaners? She may suddenly offer a meal for the children, creating the job opportunity for a chef. She may offer holiday care, right?
• 18:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because, I mean, imagine school holidays. Parents are still working. Kids still need that kind of stimulation. It might then give all the children a safe space to go to during that time. She may offer to teach some skills in that space as well, I guess we I mean, we could go on about this, but the point I think I'm trying to make here is that this little business from one to two kids, suddenly, with this lovely uplift and catalyst being literacy and empowerment, results in a growing business within the community, and also even greater peace of mind for those who are being employed.
• 18:54
  Arthi Rabikrisson: There's less stress, there's more productivity, there's so much more focus. I mean, I could go on and on about these potential benefits, Malika.
• 19:03
  Malika Petersen: I think this is such a great example Arthi of that snowball effect, right?
• 19:06
  Malika Petersen: Yep. And yet, let's also look at the operating a business. I mean this cash, this payment, so women, are making use of financial services system all the time, right? And I don't know about you, Arthi, but it does seem that there's a lot of offerings, be it savings, investments or whatever it may be, that tend to be gender neutral.
• 19:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah. I mean, that's a valid point. I think you're making Malika and and again, you know, gender neutral is not a bad thing, okay?
• 19:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because in many instances, let's be honest, there possibly isn't a need to have a female only, woman only type of savings product. And again, I say this without having done any kind of research about are there any differentiators for men or women that would warrant that?
• 19:56
  Arthi Rabikrisson: However, I must point out, and this was something I was reading not too long ago, it was some really interesting work that was done by the women's world banking teams. If you Google their website, you'll pick up some information on that in other parts of Africa, like Malawi and Kenya and Nigeria, it was actually found that for women running small businesses, there actually was a great opportunity to tailor gender inclusive products. Okay, so let's use our example of the kasi childcare opportunity now.
• 20:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, so some of the questions that would have come to mind is, then, how does a woman ensure that perhaps some of her needs around safety and security in transporting money to a branch?
• 20:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because remember, a lot of these businesses start off as cash only Okay, before kind of migrating into other types of transactional products. So let's assume it's starting at that basis of, I'm getting paid in cash, and now I have to go and go to a branch and deposit it.
• 20:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And we do know, I mean, we don't need to go into the stats about it, but there is difficulty in terms of safety and security for a woman traveling on her own, especially with potentially money on her to get to a branch.
• 21:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So how do we actually account for that, that that's not becoming a deterrent for somebody to actually go and make a deposit, other things like fees on deposits, for example, not eating into her very, very small profits, which are needing to go into so many things. How could that even be tailored into maybe smaller deposits without some sort of a fee or penalty, also that there is enough information to actually help her address all of those questions that she has. I mean, I'll even look at my own instance here, Malika, because I'm a very cost conscious business owner, right?
• 21:37
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And often time, even my bank doesn't have enough information to share with me on their online portal. And I mean, I use all of the digital products, okay, but I'm often found wanting with certain information because I have certain questions that are just not being answered. So I then go ahead and I email my bank, and I'll say, Here's my questions. Can I get more information? Sometimes they do have that detail. So yes, they'll send it to me, but sometimes that information is still too high level for what I'm looking or what I'm asking for, and unfortunately, the person who's responding to me doesn't even know where to get that information, so it kind of stops there, and it becomes a bit off putting and I'm just wondering, can you imagine somebody in that kasi economy with their own little business trying to get into banking products, having a lot of questions, and probably somebody's not understanding what they're looking for. It could be a bit of a deterrent.
• 22:31
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So I guess at the heart of what I'm trying to say here, Monica, is there has to be an understanding of the fundamental drivers of how women view money the motivators for using money, and I think once you tap into that, because I think they'll be quite different for men. Then as a financial services industry, we may start to get some of the things right, and obviously, then that brings greater satisfaction. And what we're really hoping for greater active participation of women within the industry.
• 23:01
  Malika Petersen: Ja, so I think what you're suggesting Arthi is that there should be a finger on pulse on more gender inclusiveness around that to our African neighbors, or for those awesome finds and the headway that they've made there. But I also think that we need to remember that we need to think about how we like to take on new products, safety, cost, etc, etc. That's just to name a few, but also the why, yeah, when you creating a new product or service offering, because that's going to have a big impact. And this should really be an acknowledgement of the nuances to serve the needs of a female client base as opposed to a male one?
• 23:42
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, I agree with you. And you know, as you're talking it's actually making me think of one of the well known road insurance providers. Well, that's what they started off being known as.
• 23:50
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's the branding is even tailored to women. And I think you know who I'm talking about here, right? And you can see that the services that they offer take that into account quite explicitly around the concerns that women have. Now, I haven't actually checked this again, but I assume that there is a significant take up by women of their products, and I think it's men too, right?
• 24:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because it also addresses, especially for men, you've got women in your life as well.
• 24:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You're probably worried about their well being too. So it kind of addresses their concerns as well, and they might be going with that. So, yeah, that's what he brought up to my mind.
• 24:26
  Malika Petersen: Well, so, so, I mean, I think basically a few, there are few things that need to to happen, right? Yeah, us as women, and I would almost argue us as women in finance, right?
• 24:38
  Malika Petersen: Because I think we probably have a bigger responsibility, but we need to be far more vocal, okay, more regularly about, you know, what we are understanding and not understanding about our investment products or what doesn't work for us, right? We almost need to even migrate to that. I wish you had this conversation because I think that will allow us for our new thinking about products and services and just see them in a different light and actually go, Okay, what? What is it that I wish that I had right? Yeah, I mean, obviously the providers in our financial ecosystem need to ensure that there are mechanisms for robust feedback that can kind of flag, fail points, pressure points, and also then opportunities. I mean, this can be via one on one, conversations, questionnaires, focus groups, a whole host of things, so many things you could do, yeah, nowadays. And then, of course, design with the client in mind, always, especially in this case, I think the female client psyche being central.
• 25:42
  Malika Petersen: Those foundations in the theory of money for women is where it's about serving others rather than being self serving.
• 25:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, yeah, that's that's key. That's important.
• 25:56
  Malika Petersen: And the only way, I mean, I want to go back to that stat that says 53% of finances is women, or 49 or 48 or whatever it is, but only 15% going senior position. What that essentially means is that the probability of a man or male developing these products is high because he's sitting in that senior position. So the only way that you can have your client in mind is that you need to understand what the client's needs are, and the way that you do it. Do that is by asking, trust me, us ladies love talking, and we will have no problem today.
• 26:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Definitely, we just open the doors here. Oh my goodness, look, you know, Malika, I I feel like we've really, like, you know, we're prodding on a blister, and this one is, it's potentially bust open a little bit here, because things like this, it is a sore point for many, many women that they're feeling like they're not being heard, or their needs are not being met. They don't know how to ask and then also no one's asking them. So your point is so valid, and maybe that is also the key reason why women find other ways and means of sorting out money and savings, and fortunately, it's mostly on a cash basis, which, as we know, will be detrimental over time around if you think about inflation, and all of that cash has not beaten inflation at all.
• 27:11
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, so it's making me think about all of these things. And I suppose as we wrap up our conversation today, Malika, perhaps I want to share. I know that you know, as a woman, I know how to make a plan, and I know other women there too. We always know how to make a plan.
• 27:27
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But what I'm realizing is sometimes our plan needs to be explicitly shared and jostled for positioning okay to emerge as something that can instigate meaningful change for us, for our girl children, for our communities and society at large. So really, everyone, we shouldn't be continuing to settle and make do, which is what we're very good at doing.
• 27:51
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah. Rather, we co create and we spread the impact widely, another thing that we're very good at doing. So it's what we do best. Let's do more of it. I think that's my keytake
• 28:03
  Malika Petersen: I absolutely agree with those empowering words, and I think that my parting shot would be that power is in our hands, in our voices and in our actions. Just like the Women's March for the past laws in in 1956 for gender and ethnic equality, we as women can create the change that we want to see. And like we've said so many times before on this podcast, we know for sure that the changes that we implement
• 28:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Mm, preach, Malika, preach. It's like you're don't only impact ourselves, they impact our families, our on the soapbox. So, so beautiful. And yes, we are communities, our country and future generations to come, right?
• 28:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: certainly doing our bit and more, I believe, to help shift the narrative with our podcast.
• 28:51
  Malika Petersen: I firmly believe.
• 28:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So Well, Happy Women's Day, Happy Women's lifetime. Malika,
• 28:59
  Malika Petersen: Happy womens everything indeed,Arthi. Im really feeling energized now that I really want to get some more done.
• 29:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yes, me too.
• 29:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Me too. Okay, shall we
• 29:10
  Malika Petersen: For sure? Ciao everyone,
• 29:12
  Arthi Rabikrisson: All right.
• 29:12
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ciao everyone,
• 29:16
  Malika Petersen: Sharing is caring
• 29:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: and knowledge is power.
• 29:19
  Malika Petersen: Time for you to be daring
• 29:22
  Arthi Rabikrisson: and let your money confidence bloom like a sunflower.
• 29:27
  Malika Petersen: Thanks for joining us. We hope you found these ideas and guidance useful.
• 29:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Do subscribe, share and write a review or send us comments. We would love to hear from you.
• 29:38
  Malika Petersen: Catch you on the next episode
• 29:40
  Arthi Rabikrisson: of the swane effect podcast,
• 29:43
  Malika Petersen: bye for now.
• 29:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ciao.