Latest / Weeknight Mysteries Podcast / Ep. 82 Claudia Lawrence: The Cars, The CCTV & The Missing Answers

Transcript

Ep. 82 Claudia Lawrence: The Cars, The CCTV & The Missing Answers · Weeknight Mysteries Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Weeknight Mysteries podcast. Thank you very
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. My name is Yuras. I am
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: here with my co-host Rain. How are you today?
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: As always, feeling very good. How are you today?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I'm doing pretty good today. Before we get going, I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: would like to ask all of our listeners who enjoy
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: our podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel and please
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: follow our podcast on any of the podcast apps that
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: you listen to the podcast on. It always helps us
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: moving forward. And today we're going to be jumping into
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: another case. Well, to be honest, it's going to be
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the same case that we talked about in episode number 74,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I believe. And this is maybe like a couple of
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: months ago, we talked about Claudia Lauren's disappearance. Remember when
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: we first initially talked about claudia's case we agreed that
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of interesting uh strange details that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: So many so many yeah.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: So many uh interesting details that uh and characters characters
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: or clues that we could try to investigate but back
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: when we recorded a couple of months ago i don't
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: think we had um prepared to go into the individual
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: clues as much and to kind of talk more in
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: depth about the case.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting actually because our previous episode the
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: first one i thought we already did a good job
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: covering everything because it wasn't a rabbit hole it wasn't
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: a deep dive but it also wasn't a shallow one
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: seems like we talked about multiple different people different sightings
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: so if interesting individuals theories and even the pub and
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I thought that was it and I was surprised genuinely
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: surprised when you said you want to go back to
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Claudia's case what made you go.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Back to it so when we first researched Claudia's case
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I kind of already knew that there is a bigger
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole here than what we initially talked about and
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I think my research leading up to this episode confirmed
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: those suspicions i do think there are um more things
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: here to talk about and to be honest after doing
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: all of the research for this episode i still think
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: there is probably enough room to keep talking about claudia's
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: case even longer because well to be honest um As
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I was kind of trying to dig into the case
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit, I noticed that a lot of people
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: are saying that they already know, like police already knows
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: who is responsible for Claudia's disappearance. And apparently it has
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to do something with those four men that were arrested
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: but then later released. And specifically one of those men,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: one of those men with the initials PR. I don't
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: know if we mentioned the PR name, initial guy, um,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: on our last episode regarding Claudia's case, but I was
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: digging more into it. I think I found his name and, uh,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I even think I found allegedly, I mean, I think
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I found the other three men who were also arrested, um,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: back in, I think it was either 2015 or, uh, uh,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: or 2016. Um, but they were released without, uh, you know,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I think the the crown in UK, which is the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: court or something like that. They deemed that, uh, there
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: wasn't enough evidence to, you know, try to put these
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: people away.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Or at least one of them or all of them.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so after that, uh, I think the case
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: kind of got a little bit more cold. I'm not
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: going to lie. Uh, but, but we have things to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: talk about here. Uh, and kind of progress this discussion
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: a little bit. So what I was thinking is we
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: could really quickly go over the case one more time
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: for the people that have not heard about Claudia Lawrence
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: case and maybe add some stuff that I potentially missed
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: last time we talked about Claudia's case. And then we
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: could kind of go over some of the additional clues
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that we found. And I feel like right now we
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: have a better understanding on Claudia's case.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: This case is crazier and more complex than I thought.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: It is, actually. I'm not sure if it's necessarily more
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: complex than we thought, but I think there's more information
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: online about it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I guess what I'm trying to say is that I
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: would expect it to be just that it, that's it.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Like there are four interesting men And she just disappeared,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: something like that. But I'm surprised, genuinely surprised. And for
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: our audience, for our listeners, you just prepared a 32-page
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: document that we're going to tackle today.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, the 32-page document, I think, includes screenshots and pictures.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: But still, it's 32 pages.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: That's why I was saying that, to be honest, I
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: felt like there's even more research to be done here. Mm-hmm.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But let's delve into it. So let's kind of go
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: over the general story first before we jump into the
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: little nuances that we dig deeper this time. So on
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: 18th of March, which was Wednesday, 2009, Claudia Lawrence was
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: a 35-year-old chef. And she was working at the University
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of Goodrich College. She was last seen leaving her work
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: from college, which was located in the city of York
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: in UK. Claudia was last spotted near her home and
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: she spoke to both of her parents by phone that evening.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Despite appearing in regular mood, good spirits, she failed to
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: report to work the next day and she has not
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: been seen or heard ever since then. Something must have
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: happened to her most likely in the morning or during
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the night of 18th of March, Wednesday. Police later treated
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the case as a suspected murder, with multiple individuals arrested
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and subsequently released without charge. Claudia's fate remains unknown to
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: this day. Claudia was born in Malton, To parents Peter
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and Joanne, she also has an older sister, Allie. Claudia's
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: father was a successful solicitor in the UK, which was
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a legal profession. Her mother was a member of the
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Malton Town Council and served a term as the mayor
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of Malton at some point. Claudia, growing up, she was
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: privately educated at the York College for Girls. She later
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: attended a local catering college and qualified as a chef.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: She initially worked at several hotels and restaurants in New York,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: but became tired of the unsocial hours. So it seems
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: to us that she wanted to be available for her
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: free time during regular hours. She didn't want to work,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I guess, during those evenings when she could hang out.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: So in 2006, she found a job at the University
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: of Goodrich College in York, and she was working there
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: as a chef in the canteen of the university's main campus.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Claudia was considered punctual and reliable by her employer. In 2007,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Claudia purchased a terrace cottage in the York suburb of Heworth,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: which was situated about three miles from her work. That
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: would be five kilometers or our non-American listeners. Claudia remained
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: single throughout her life, but she had a sociable and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: outgoing social life. She was reported to have been engaged
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: in a series of short-term secret relationships with men, some
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: of whom were married and were in relationships. Claudia was
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: discreet about this, and her family knew little about her
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: relationships with men. After moving to Heworth in 2007, Claudia
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: would regularly spend evenings at the Nags Head pub, which
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: was really close by to her home. Claudia began relationships
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: with several men whom she met while drinking in the pub,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and her father admitted that the romantic affairs had created
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: awkward situations with her lover's partners.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: It's kind of weird. I just have to jump in
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: over here. Because he did mention that her family apparently
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: did not know much about her relationships. But then again,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: her father said that it created some awkward situation with
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: the partners. So did they actually know about it or not?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: This is actually a very good point that you brought up.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Because this is a bit of a contradiction. And I
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: don't think I personally know to what extent her parents
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: knew about her secret life.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it feels like they know more. No? They
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: know about the awkward situations.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So it seems that they knew about something.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Some, but not all of them.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe she didn't really know exactly who they were. Oh, yeah.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe they just heard some gossips.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Here and there. Yeah.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Claudia had been to Cyprus on holiday several times and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: she was believed to have explored the job opportunities there. Now,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: when we jump to Claudia's disappearance, we know that her
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: day seemingly started very normal on the 18th of March
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: at 6 a.m. She started her shift at the canteen
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: in Goodrich College, Roger Kirk Center. She completed her shift
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: at 2 p.m. and was recorded on CCTV leaving the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: college on foot. A few minutes later, we have the
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: footage of her leaving. At around 3 p.m., she was
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: recorded on CCTV passing a shop in Melrose Gate near
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: her home, which is an area close to her home,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and she was seen also by a neighbor, apparently. During
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the course of the evening, Claudia spoke to both her
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: father and mother on her mobile phone. Her mother described
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Claudia's mood as normal and relaxed. They discussed celebrating the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: upcoming Mother's Day as well. So it seems that Claudia
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: had some sort of plans after moving forward. So this
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: is why her disappearance happened. Seems strange and definitely sounds
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: like something that was not of her own consent. Looks
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: like something terrible has happened to Claudia. And to us,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: it looks like she definitely did not run away and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: start her own life. Claudia told her mother that she
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: was at home during the call and that she is
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: planning to go to sleep early since she would have
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: to get up early On the 19th, before 5 a.m.,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: in fact, the next day, in order to walk to work.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Because at this point, her car was under repair, so
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: she was making that three-mile walk to work on foot.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, I remember in the previous episode, the first one
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: where we talked about Claudia, we were talking about the
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: distance between her own place and her workplace. Do you remember?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I remember.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: We were trying to gauge if it's actually walkable. And
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: if it's doable on a daily basis.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on how much you like walking.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: In terms of Claudia's case, I guess. Did it make
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: sense for her to just walk in the morning? Or
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: was it better for her to have just taken the bus?
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm not even sure if there was a bus
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: that early. in new york i mean maybe there was maybe.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: There was but i if i remember correctly i could
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: be wrong we talked about that it's walkable it's okay
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: it's a nice walk nice morning walk i.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Also think that it's probably walkable i feel like you.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Do that kind of walk in the morning when you
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: go to the office your office.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah and i think people are walking this distance sometimes
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: it's not impossible But I mean, every day, to be honest,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: to walk three miles is not favorable, I would say.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Because it is a lot. Because two and back, that's
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: like 10 kilometers of walking every day.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Could you remind me if this was her first time
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: walking alone? Or was she already doing it for quite
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: some time?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. As far as I'm aware, it's
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: not known how long her car was on other repairs.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe someone knows actually. But I don't. So I don't
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: really know how often did she walk to work.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Because if it was just a one-off, then it's whatever.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: It's fine, right?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: So I think that was the case. I think she
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: was just waiting for her car to be fixed.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: No, I meant maybe the car has been already there
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: for a week or two.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I think I've seen a blog where they were talking
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a little bit about Claudia's car somewhere, but I didn't
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: really dig into it. So just another example of how
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: there's more to talk about even after today regarding this case.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, it depends how detailed you want to be
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: in this discussion. So she had sent her final text.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: text message from her mobile phone at 8 23 p.m
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: that day and a final incoming text was received at
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: 9 12 p.m and after that nobody is known to
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: have seen or heard from claudia so i think we
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: already found out that the incoming text was actually made
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: by a man from either from Cyprus or from UK,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: but it was sent by a man who was from Cyprus.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure which one of these it was,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: but somehow it was that Cyprus connection that sent her
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the last text message. I personally didn't find any connection
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: between the last message that she received and her disappearance.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: So the following day, which was Thursday, 19th of March,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Claudia was scheduled to start work regularly at 6 a.m. However,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: she did not show up to work and her manager
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: had called her mobile phone number. Although the phone rang,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the call was directed to voice messaging and the manager
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: took no further action that day. So this is quite
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: important for us because In fact, when the manager called
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: her mobile phone, which was, I assume, you know, shortly
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: after 6 a.m. when Claudia forgot, well, didn't show up
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to work, her phone was still on. Because we will
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: find out that her phone was, I think, switched off
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: around noon on that day. So it seems that to us, potentially,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it seems that something has happened to Claudia, potentially already
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: at this hour. And... you know, early morning hour at six.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: And to us, it seems that the culprit or multiple culprits,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: whichever way it might be, they had turned off her
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: phone at around noon. That's what I'm thinking. Another detail
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: is that this phone of Claudius was never located. Another
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: thing that we have to mention is that on the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: same day when Claudia was reported missing, or basically when
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: she was not reported missing, but when she didn't show
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: up for work on the 19th, in the evening she
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: had arranged to meet a friend of hers named Susie
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Cooper at the Nag's Head, which was the pub that
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: was right next to her home, and she was spending
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: her nights there. She was a regular at the pub.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: So Susie showed up to the pub, however Claudia didn't.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So Susie attempted to call Claudia. Claudia was normally a
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: prolific user of her phone and Susie was surprised that
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: she wasn't able to get a hold of Claudia. So
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: what happened next is that the following morning Susie tried
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: to call her again. Now this was on Friday, the
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: 20th of March. Again, no one picked up the phone.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: So at this point, Susie started to become concerned and
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: she contacted mutual acquaintances, including a man by the name
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: of George Foreman, who was the landlord of the Nags Head.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And she was hoping that he would know where Claudia was. However,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: George Foreman did not know where Claudia was. So Susie
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: called Claudia's father Peter later in the day, and then
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Peter called his daughter's manager at Goodrich College, and he
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: was told that Claudia had not shown up for work
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: on neither 19th or 20th of March. It was already
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: two days that she has not went to work. Peter
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: then showed up to Claudia's home, and I don't know
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: exactly how they... planned it or how they linked up
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: with George Foreman, but apparently from the information on Wikipedia,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Claudia and George Foreman entered the house together and the
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: two men found the house to be in an orderly state.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: The bed was made and there were unwashed dishes in
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the kitchen sink, suggesting that she had eaten breakfast that morning.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: This is one of the clues that I'm kind of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: like leaning strongly towards that You know, if there was
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: unwashed dishes in the kitchen sink, to me, it seems
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: that she did wake up to eat breakfast. So I
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: feel like maybe she was not, you know, something didn't
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: happen to her during the night. Maybe she actually woke
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: up in the morning. But I think that's also debatable,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to be honest. Claudia's handbag containing her purse, bank cards
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and passport was in the house. Another clue is... which
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: made a lot of people question why would she leave
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: these things behind if she ran away. Or even if
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: she went to work, if she woke up, ate her breakfast,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: left the unwashed dishes, why would she leave her handbag
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: with her purse, bank cards and passport if she was
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: going to go to work? But we don't really know
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: her daily. routine perhaps she would leave these items at
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: home anyways because you know in the canteen you don't
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: really need those items anyways right like why would you
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: need your passport and purse.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah i always leave my passport at.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Home yeah you don't need it when you go to work.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: No not at all unless you're leaving for work then.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: I guess the bank cards were a bigger topic why
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: did she leave her bank cards potentially but i guess
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the bank cards i've seen some people were saying that
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: apparently back in 2009, using cash was still more common.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: That makes sense.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: You know, like bank cards were not new technology, but
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like as widely used as today. Maybe, you know,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: back in 2009, you couldn't go to like a small
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: store and pay with a card.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that happening. You know, for a
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: second there, my dummy brain thought like, oh, maybe she
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: did Apple Pay or Google Pay. And then I remember
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: it was 2009.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: No, no, I don't think I don't think she did
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: the Apple Pay.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: No.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. So the only significant items that were missing
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: from her home was her mobile phone and a set
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: of hair straighteners, as well as a bag which she
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: normally used to carry her chef's whites to and from work.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: So this is important because to me personally, now that
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about the case for the second time, And
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I had some more time to kind of think about
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: this case a little bit more. To me, it seems
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the fact that she's carrying her phone, hair straighteners, and
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: her chef whites, or at least a bag which her
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: chef whites would be in, to me, that seems that
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: she possibly left for work. I mean, the biggest elephant
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: in the room is the hair straighteners, remember? Mm-hmm. But
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I've seen so many people online saying that hair straighteners
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: were a big thing back in 2009. And apparently, some
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: people are thinking that because she brought hair straighteners, she
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: was probably going to go somewhere after work.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking as well. I could see
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: that happening because your hair in the kitchen is always
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: up in the bun. And it could go crazy. It
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: could go frizzy. it could become curly, wavy when you
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: take that bun off. And I was thinking maybe she was,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: or she was intending to go to a pub or
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: meet someone or go on a date after her workday.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: And she wouldn't look presentable. She doesn't want to look
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: like sweaty with frizzy hair all over the place. I
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: could see why she would bring a hair straightener. I
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: wonder why she didn't bring makeups though.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. But also I wonder if For
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: how long, if she was planning to go somewhere after work,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: how long would she go there for? Why I'm asking
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: this is because she had already made plans that evening
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to meet up with Susie Cooper in the pub. So
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: we already know that she was going to be at
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the Nags Head pub that evening if everything went right.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: But she didn't.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Do you know the exact time? Like maybe 8 p.m.?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: We don't. Okay, so roughly around that time.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I just assume it's evening time in the pub. I'm
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: not really sure. I'm also thinking maybe the hair straighteners
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: was literally her daily job routine. You know, like maybe
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: she finishes work and she fixes the hair before she
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: even leaves.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That could be a thing, but I
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: could also see it being a special occasion thing.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Special occasion for how long? For the whole night.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Because maybe she was supposed to meet up someone.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Someone special. But Susie Cooper at the pub.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Someone special is going to pick her up
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: after work or something. They're going to meet in a
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: special location. And then right after, she was supposed to
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: meet Susie.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I could see that happening. And they were going to
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: be in a pub anyways. It's going to be a
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: girl's night out. So it might as well look pretendable,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah. I could kind of see that now that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: you put it this way. So it is suspected that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Claudia left the house normally to go to work at
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: around 5 a.m. on the morning of 19th of March,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: but she never arrived to work.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: What time did she leave?
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Well, we don't really know, but she would have to
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: leave at around 5.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Because she starts work at 6.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a long walk.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, so it's like 6 to 4?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's 6 to 2, 6 to 3. Oh, okay.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Perfect. Yeah. A lot of time. So much time before
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: she had to see Suzy in the evening.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: We don't know exactly when.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: No, for example, let's just assume that, like, she ends
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: her shift 3 p.m. And then she was supposed to
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: meet Suzy at, like, let's assume 7 p.m.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Then she wouldn't have a lot of time.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: She wouldn't have a lot of time.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: If that was the case.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: So police were contacted at around 2 p.m. on the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: 20th of March, Friday. This is the same day when
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: her father and George Foreman went into her home and
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: found it in an orderly manner. According to Wikipedia, police
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: acted slowly in this case. They argued that Claudia was
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: not a vulnerable person and there were no signs of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: foul play. So they didn't really immediately start, I guess
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: they didn't, They didn't put enough urgency to the situation,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like, according to Claudia's parents. Claudia's family became
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: increasingly insistent that Claudia was abducted. Police did eventually upgrade
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the case from a missing persons case to a suspected murder.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And the investigation started. So remember there were two sets
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: of investigations. There was this first investigation that was quite botched.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: according to some people. And there was the second investigation
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that was apparently way better. And the second investigation, they
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: led to the arrest of the five men, the release
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: of CCTV and other things. So the original investigation considered
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: four possible outcomes here. So the first three, they ruled out.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So the first possibility that they ruled out was that
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Claudia left with a new lover to take up a
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: new job or to take a break because... It doesn't
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: make sense. It doesn't make sense. The second one that
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: they had ruled out was that Claudia had suffered an
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: accident or a medical emergency on her way to work
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: because the route was checked and no trace of her
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: was found.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there would have been way more commotion.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: No?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: No.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It seems to me that this one also doesn't really
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: make sense.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Unless it's hit and run and someone, I don't know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: hit her.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I think so, but I feel like police are really
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: leaning towards foul play here. The third one that they
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: had ruled out was that she was a victim of
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a random attack by a serial killer. There were reports
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: of people acting strangely in the Heworth area in the
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: days leading up to Claudia's disappearance. I don't know what
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: these reports are, to be honest. Uh, these reports, however,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: were investigated alongside cases of known serial killers who might
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: have been active in the area. They were also considered,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: but all of them were ruled out. I don't think
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: there was like a active serial killer, you know, like, um,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: like a Israel keys in York. So, so I think
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: they were just looking at in general across the country. Okay.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: So it was just like shot in the dark. Hopefully
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: it landed. Basically, or were there like, as you mentioned,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: there weren't any active serial killers at that time, no?
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I think there were in the country, but not maybe like.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: In specific area.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when he came to the conclusion that Claudia
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: was a victim of foul play committed by a person
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: that she knew, and profilers suspect that she knew her
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: attacker and that her personal life actually holds the answer
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to her disappearance now when they were investigating the first
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: critical clue that was I guess put forward was the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: fact that her phone remained on until 12.10 p.m. This
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: is already way past the time that she failed to
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: show up to work. This is like almost the end
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of her shift, to be honest. But something happened and
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: someone turned off her phone. at 12.10pm on the 19th
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: of March, was switched off. I found some people on
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Reddit saying that the reason they believe it was someone
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: she knew is that her phone remained connected to the
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: same York cell mast for 4 hours before being deliberately
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: switched off. Her manager had phoned at 10 a.m. with
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: no reply, and then it was switched off at 12,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: potentially when the killer saw it had a missed call
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: on it. So this is what people on Reddit are saying,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and I can't argue with that. That does seem logical
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to me. The police was... It was established that the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: phone was connected to a mast in the Heworth area
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: throughout the morning of the 19th, up to the point
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: it was turned off. This means that the phone did
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: not leave the area. The only CCTV camera on Claudia's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: most direct route to work was the Melrose Gate post office,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: and the recording from the morning of the 19th of
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: March did not show Claudia passing, but it's possible that
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: she passed out of camera view or took a different route.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: So this is actually interesting at this point about the
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: CCTV on this Melrose Gate post office, because if I'm
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: not mistaken, and I had seen those CCTVs, it does
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: seem to me that Claudia is actually picked up on
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: it on the 18th when she was walking back from work.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: So it's natural for us to assume that she would
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: walk past it again going back to work. It's the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: most direct route. Why would Claudia all of a sudden
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: take a different route? It doesn't make sense. So now
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: we are starting to kind of narrow down the where
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: something may have happened. It must have been the area
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: between her home and the Melrose Gate post office. Because
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: after that, Claudia had never walked past it, so it
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: seems that something happened there. The search was then extended
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: to Cyprus. Police think that she may have received job
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: offers there. Some people who have been interviewed in connection
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: to the Cyprus connection have been reluctant and less than truthful. Apparently,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the last message that was received by Claudia was from
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a man who was in Cyprus. So this is the
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: last message that she received at like 9 p.m. on
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the evening when something potentially happened to her. or leading
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: up to the morning when something happened to her. University
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: of York campus was also searched. Police were looking for
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the driver of a rusty white van who was seen
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: trying to talk to women on Claudia's route to work
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: in the days before she disappeared. This is one of
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the clues that we delved deeper this week. So we're
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: going to be kind of going back to this rusty
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: white van in a little bit. I think last time
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: we just briefly mentioned it. I did find some information
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: on it. Not too much, though. In 2010, police started
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: searching areas of Heslington in New York. Based on new information,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: land near the children's play area near a muddy farm
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: track was searched. The search was relocated to a field
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: near to the university, an area of land which is
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: bordered by a playing field and student accommodation. Nothing of
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: significance was discovered. This was later considered to be hoax information.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Police said Claudia's relationships with men hold the clue to
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: her disappearance. The investigation focused on men she had been
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: involved with. The general finding of the original investigation was
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: that Claudia had probably been abducted and murdered shortly after
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: leaving her home on the morning of 19th of March
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: to go to work. It was considered likely that her
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: killer was a local man that she knew. And then
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in 2013, a major crime unit started to reinvestigate this case.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And this is the unit that actually seems like made
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: actual breakthroughs in Claudia's disappearance case. Because there were new
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: forensic searches done at her home. The crime unit used
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: new technologies and found additional fingerprints and a man's DNA
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: on a cigarette and in her car. So in her car,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: meaning the one that was under repairs, I believe. So
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: this is where things get very interesting for us now,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: because I've read another article where a detective or like
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: an investigator, another, I think, content creator or something like that,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: He apparently had been in communication with police privately about
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Claudia's case. And police apparently told him that they are
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: very confident, police is very confident, that Claudia's killer had
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: been to her home. So this is where the fingerprints
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: and an additional apparently man's DNA on a cigarette and
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: in her car become relevant.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Question have they ever figured out whose dna was it.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know because they did make an arrest uh
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of you know four individuals so we don't know on
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: which basis these individuals were arrested so it could be
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: potentially the dna evidence But we can't confirm it.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not... Either they know about it and
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: it's not a public information or they don't know who
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: it belongs to.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Exactly. That's basically what it is. We don't really know.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Her mobile phone data showed that Claudia spent time in
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the Acombe area of York in the weeks leading up
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: to her disappearance.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Sorry, really quickly. Where is this Acombe area? Is it
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: far away from her apartment?
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I think it's further... I believe, if I remember correctly,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: it's on the western part of York compared to her home,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and I do think it's a little bit farther away.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: It's not like a walking distance.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It could be. It could be a
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: walking distance. It depends. CCTV footage was also released by
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the new task force, which showed a silver Ford Focus hatchback,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: which was, you know, the model was made between 1998
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: and 2004, which was driving along Keyworth Road. And then
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the car's brake lights come on as it approached Claudia's home. Apparently,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: this particular Ford Focus, this is during the night of
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Claudia's disappearance, unexplainably starts braking as it approaches Claudia's home. Now,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: there's nothing suspicious about that, I guess. But the fact
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: that it was one of the, I believe, few cars
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: driving during that hour. And now it's stopping at Claudia's house.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: It could be just a random car slowing down, though.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I believe it was stopping in such a way where
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: it felt like.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: It's not slowing down.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It felt like it was.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Intentional.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: The new investigation team made a number of arrests and
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: on 13th of May 2014, a 59-year-old man, I believe
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: his name was Michael Snelling, we have some more information
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: about him, was arrested on suspicion of murdering Claudia. So
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: now they pulled the trigger. They pulled the trigger and
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: they arrested this other guy who worked In the university.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: He was a biology lab technician.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Wait, I don't know. Maybe I just forgot about the
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: whole thing during the first episode of Claudia's case. But
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I don't remember this guy.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I think we briefly mentioned him. Oh, okay. But I
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: kind of tried to look for more information about him.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: That's coming up. So this man was apparently on friendly
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: terms with Claudia and he had given her lifts to
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: work and back home And the man's house was searched
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: in York as well as his mother's house in North Shields.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: He was released on bail the next day and then
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: released from his bail in November. So I assume that
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: the logic here would be that the police maybe think
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: that he was... supposed to give her a right to work.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, now I remember him.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: You remember?
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Now I remember this guy.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: What do you remember about him?
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: That he was suspicious. That he was supposed to give
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: her a lift, as you mentioned, but for that particular
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: day he didn't or something?
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. We don't know that. From my understanding,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: we don't know if he was supposed to give her
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a lift. What we know is that he would sometimes
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: give her a lift. So I think police came to
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the conclusion that maybe this guy was giving her a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: lift on the 19th. And then he, you know, did
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: some foul play as they started driving.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: This was what I remember. Really? Yeah, this part. But
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: then I don't remember anything after that.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I was able to find a bit
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: more information, but not that much. We can jump into
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: it in a bit. Then later on in July of 2014,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: police arrested Paul Harris, who was the landlord of the
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Acombe pub that we talked about earlier. Paul was arrested
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: on suspicion of Perverting the course of justice, apparently there
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: was a minor discrepancy that he had given to police
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: while being questioned, and after that he was actually quickly
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: released without charge. Paul complained that police had excavated a
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: section of the cellar floor of his pub. Paul Harris
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: stated that Claudia had been a customer at his pub
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: in the weeks before her disappearance. and he had spoken
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: to her, but stated that that was his only connection
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: with Claudia. Later on in the year, more CCTV footage
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: was released showing an Astra van parked outside of Claudia's
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: home around 9 p.m. on the night of her disappearance.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: This is something we also graced past last week. Essentially,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: what I was able to find about the Astra van
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: was is that we do have some CCTV footage of,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a police car or if
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: it's a regular car with one of those cameras that
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: keep filming everything for potential accidents. And apparently someone was
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: driving past Claudia's home at 9 p.m. and there was
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: this small kind of like astrovan, white astrovan, parked outside
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: of Claudia's home at 9 p.m., and police, I guess,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: were interested to find out who it belonged to, but
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I believe no one really came forward regarding that. The
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: following year, in 2015, In 2015, police released CCTV footage
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: of an unidentified man walking nearby to the alleyway at
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: the rear of Claudia's home. This was on March 18th,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: on the evening where she was still apparently okay. She
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: called her parents, talked to her mother and talked to
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: her father. I think her last outgoing message was somewhere
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: around 8 p.m. So we know that she's still alive
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and I think she is definitely still in her home
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: But already at 7.15 p.m., so this is, I believe,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: maybe like an hour or something. Actually, I should even
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: find this. Before she sends her last text message to someone,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: we don't know exactly who, there was a man. There
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: was a man walking by. So I found the timestamp.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: It was 8.23, 8.23 p.m. is when Claudia sends her
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: final message, but already at 7.15, which is more than
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: an hour before, right? More than an hour before, there's
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: a guy, there's a guy, unidentified man, walking nearby to
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the alleyway at the back of Claudia's home, And this
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: was 7.15 and then the same man, seems like the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: same man returns and walks behind or like walks the
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: same route in the rear of her home at 5.07 a.m.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: the next morning, which is weird because Claudia is a
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: woman who went missing. around this time, and now we
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: have an unidentified man walking around. He also was reportedly... Yeah,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: we're going to kind of get into it. Maybe we
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: even have some footage here for us to view somewhere.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: The next year, in 2016, the Crown Prosecution refused to
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: pursue a case submitted by police against four men who
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: had been arrested on suspicion of murder, citing lack of evidence.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: So this is exactly... What we were talking about earlier,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: police had apparently submitted a case against four men, which
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: the Crown Prosecution Service denied. They rejected to pursue a
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: case because there wasn't enough evidence. The suspects that were
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: submitted by police, these four men, they had been regular
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: customers at the Nags Head. They all denied any involvement
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: in Claudia's disappearance. If you dig deep enough online, you
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: will find who these guys are, allegedly. Police never officially
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: named these men, but if you, as I've said, if
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: you really look around, I think you could find who
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: they are. And then further investigation took place. There were
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Two things that happened, I guess, more recently. The first
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: one was in 2021 when police searched a location called
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: the Sand Hutton Gravel Pits, which is a wooded area
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: around eight miles away from York City Center. Apparently, the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: search was prompted by new evidence. Police did not disclose
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: what the new evidence was, actually. This land has been
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: used as fishing ponds since 1969. Police had drained one
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: of the lakes on site to allow a fingertip examination
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: of the lake's bed. However, nothing was found. We have
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: another thing that I found, which was kind of spooky.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: It's a spooky situation, and I think you could even
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: find it. Maybe I'm going to show you what you
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: could look for in the file. In 2022, there was
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: a very... I don't even know what to call it. Apparently,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: it's a floral tribute. Floral tribute meaning that there is
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: some flowers on the ground. And there is like a
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: paper next to those flowers, okay?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And this is not in like, let's say, a graveyard
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: or something. This is just a random spot.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: This is a random spot. In fact, I believe that
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: it was not disclosed where this spot is at. It's
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: never disclosed where exactly this location was. But what we
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: have here is that there was a floral tribute. There
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: was a bunch of flowers and there was a picture
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: of Claudia and the note. The note says, God bless her.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: She is in the water. There also seems to be
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: arrows drawn on the piece of paper pointing in the
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: same direction. So it seems that the... This is foul, though.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: It's like it's so wrong. If it was the killer,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: then it's so wrong to just drop clues and taunt.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Or someone who knew.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so... cruel to taunt her family like that
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: don't you think so could be the killer could be
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: someone pulling a prank or could be someone she knew
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: but either way it's cruel.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: So um apparently this uh note and i guess the
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: flowers were sent to police but oh.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: It's actually interesting because i'm looking at the i'm looking
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: at the writing okay and why do i'm sensing that
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: it's a woman's writing from the looks of it i
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: just think that maybe it's a bit too neat for
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: it to be a man's handwriting.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I i could see that i could see how this
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Could look like a woman's... I'm gonna be putting this
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: on the YouTube channel. Our listeners could.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Especially the one, the writing, God bless her. The way
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: it's written, it's so neat.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, to be honest. If I had
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: to bet, I would bet that this is such a
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: good catch. this looks like a woman right what oh
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: to be honest what man also i will say leaving
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: uh flowers and something like that it feels like a
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: more likely to be done by a woman.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: And the choice of flowers to be honest It.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Feels like a woman thing. It just feels like a
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: female may have left this on the ground. I agree
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Now I wonder if this was left out of hatred
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: or out of love, out of care. Because I could
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: also see it going in two different directions. It could
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: be one of the partners of the guys that she
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: dated with. Because this, oh no, now I'm looking at it,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: she is in the water. This is definitely out of hatred.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: God bless her, she is in the water. Maybe they're
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: just giving a clue or something.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so could this be the killer? It's a woman's handwriting.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's a killer, to be honest. Why
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: would the killer expose themselves like this?
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Psychotic.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but to be honest, I do think
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: that this is a... You made a really good point
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: about this whole thing being done by a woman. It
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: feels like a female left it there, potentially, in my opinion.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: We're just completely assuming here, but it speaks to me
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: like it's done by a woman.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: That's a good point, actually. You know, when I was
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: looking at this thing, I just wrote it off as
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: some crazy hoax thing. I never really even thought much
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: about it, but you have a very good point that
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: this does look like it could be a female.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: But what does that mean, though? What does this give us?
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: A woman hated her?
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's hate. I wouldn't be jumping.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: What about this, she is in the water?
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Clue!
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: From whom i don't know a woman who knew what happened.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Yes and just giving a clue to police that i
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: know that her remains were placed in.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: The water but then again this is not a completely
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: innocent woman then this.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Is a woman who would be somehow going about giving
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: tips in this weird way.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah wouldn't step up Wouldn't expose herself. Be a witness.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: She probably knew something. Or he could be also a man.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: We're just completely assuming here. But would leave odd clues.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Would even... I mean, the thing is, if I was
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: the police, I would interview the flower shops around the area.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: That's a good point.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: It's an arrangement. It was bought in a flower shop.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. Maybe they could find who sells
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: these types of flowers.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe they could even track.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's undisclosed, but maybe the flower shops nearby, I
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: would try to investigate that.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's a good point. Maybe they
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: could have done something with it. I hope that he did.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I hope they did and nothing came out of it.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: I hope they actually tried to put some effort towards
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: this particular note. So we have... Last time we talked
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit about this man called... Who did we
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: talk about? We talked about a man by the name
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: of Christopher Halliwell, but I'm not going to go into
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: it this time because I'm pretty confident that Christopher Halliwell
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: is not responsible in Claudia's case. Police came out and
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: said that there is no connection between Christopher Halliwell. Christopher
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Halliwell is a man who has been... charged with two
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: murders in Swindon, which is in a different part of
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the UK. But it seems that Christopher Halliwell was somehow
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: either killing people or, I don't know, committing crimes specifically
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: on the 19th of March. They came to this conclusion somehow. And,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: you know, this is the same day when Claudia goes missing.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: They tried to connect him to York area because... His
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: father was living kind of close to York, but police
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: came out and said that they actually have CCTV footage
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: of Christopher Halliwell. They have footage of him in a
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: gas station on the day when Claudia disappeared. So for me,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: this feels like a clear cut footage. rule out of
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Christopher Halliwell and doesn't look like he has been responsible
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: for Claudia's case. So this is generally what we have.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: We have a short list of things that we kind
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: of want to delve a little bit more deeper into
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: this time that we have not done last time. So
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: These are the clues that I specifically wanted to investigate
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: a bit more. So the first would be, apparently there
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: was a rusty van parked and a man driving this
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: rusty van. And apparently this man was trying to talk
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: to women leading up to the disappearance of Claudia Lawrence.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: And this van was parked. on the route from Claudia's
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: home to her work. So I tried to find some
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: more information about this particular man, or the rusty man,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and I found an article which was written in 2009.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: So this came out quite early into Claudia's case. And
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: apparently detectives, and I'm just going to read a little
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: bit of it, detectives are hunting for missing York chef
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Claudia Lawrence they say that another witness has came forward
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: to say that she was approached by a van driver
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: in the Melrose Gate area the press revealed last month
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: how a jogger contacted police following Claudia's disappearance to raise
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: concerns about the driver of an old, dirty and rusty
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: white van who tried to speak to her in the
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: street as she was running past. The jogger said this
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: incident happened in Melrose Gate, which was part of Claudia's
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: route to work at the University of York, just before
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: the 35-year-old Heworth woman went missing. North Yorkshire police said
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: that she told them that she also saw the van
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: approach one other woman and she thought that the driver
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: might have been asking for directions. Officers said that they
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: had nothing definitive to link this particular van to the
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Claudia Lawrence case. And they dismissed claims by a source
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: that the jogger had seen another woman being approached by
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: the van driver. However, they urged any other witnesses with
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: information to come forward. Police confirmed today that one woman
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: had contacted them after they read the article to report
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: an incident in which she too had been approached in
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: a road off Melrose Gate by the driver of a van.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: which she had seen in Melrose Gate a short time earlier. However,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: the detective who is leading the Claudia Lawrence case stressed
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that this other incident had happened in June and the
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: vehicle had not matched the description given by the first witness.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: So it seems like the second witness was not talking
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: about the same person and the van wasn't even white
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: in the second case. However, police are still investigating this
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: information and they are asking for information about this original
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: white rusty van. I don't think anything came of it,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: but that's what we have. I mean, what are your
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: thoughts about this particular clue?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what to say.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seems that there was a white van,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: rusty white van, who was.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: And it seems that... When were they asking about it?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: When was it seen? I think it was... It doesn't
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: really say when.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: So we don't really know when.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Actually, this reminds me of that link. There's a YouTube
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: video wherein you sent me a link to watch. And
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: it's just a bunch of, like, piece together. It's a compilation. Yeah.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: And I did see like a white van there. Are
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: we talking about the same thing or is it just
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: a random one? It could be a random one.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: No, we're not talking about the same white van.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: It's like this case has a lot of white vans.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you mentioned it. I was like, is it
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: the same thing?
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: No, this is where things could get confusing. This is
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: not the white van.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Not connected at all.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Not from the footage. Oh, that's crazy. It's a different
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: white van. But I guess nothing came of this clue. Yeah.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting though. I remember we talked more about
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: this white van in the first episode. We thought it
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: was suspicious though.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe we talked about a different one. We're talking about
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: a different one. There's multiple ones. You have no idea.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Like this is a different white van. I'm telling you,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: you could get lost in this case.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: I'm already lost. Yeah.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: So we're back from a little break. Got some energy back.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: So now when we go back and we talk about
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: the cars that are... you know, described in this case.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta let us know about the cars because
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: they are confusing.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: So, if I'm not mistaken, there are three different cars
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: that are.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Suspicious.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Or like, police were asking about three different cars. So,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: the first car that they were asking was a white,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: rusty van. And the information was that University of York campus, sorry,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: like a woman was also approached.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, this was the, what I call it, the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: kidnapper van.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently police were looking for a driver of a
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: rusty white van who was seen trying to talk to
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: women on Claudia's route to work in the days before
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: she disappeared. So this is the first one.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: The second one was the Ford Focus hatchback that started stopping.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Kind of like took an intentional, it seems like an
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: intentional break.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the second one. And the last one
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: is this Astrovan, which was kind of like seen.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: On a dash cam of another car, I don't know
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: if it was a police car or if it was
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: a civilian car, but someone had the dash cam in
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: their vehicle, and as they were driving past at 9 p.m.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: past Claudia's home, they spotted this car. Somehow that footage
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: was acquired by police, and then police were inquiring about it.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: So there's three different cars, okay?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: And, sorry, just really quickly.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: With the compilation of the CCTV footages, the white van
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: seen in those are not related to the case at all,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: which states random.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: So we don't have footage of the rusty van.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: But I've seen a white van there.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is the Astrovan that you've seen. It's not
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: the white rusty van. The white rusty van is only
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: a witness statement. Mm-hmm. that someone has been apparently approaching
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: women in and around the Melrose Gate area, joggers or
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: something like that. And the suspicion here is that they
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: are pretending to ask for directions with the actual goal
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: of abducting women, potentially. So this is the first clue. Now, actually,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: we're moving to the second clue, which is the silver
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Ford Focus hatchback that inexplicably starts stopping. So I was
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: able to find more information on this other clue, actually,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: and I could read a little bit about it. The
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: clue that we have is CCTV footage was released, which
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: showed a silver Ford Focus hatchback car which was made
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: between 1998 and 2004, driving along Heworth Road. The car's
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: brake lights come on as it approaches Claudia's home. So
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: I was kind of trying to find some information a
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: little bit about it. This is what I have on
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: this other clue. An old-style silver Ford Focus hatchback was
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: shown on CCTV, taken the day after Claudia vanished. Okay,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: so this was taken the day after Claudia vanished. Okay, maybe.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Wait. Oh, no, no.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Not after Claudia vanished. It was taken on the 19th
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: of March. So in the early morning hours of 19th
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: of March. So on the same morning when we think
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: that Claudia potentially, you know, left for work. And something
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: happened on the way to work, potentially. The footage was
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: actually captured at 5.42 a.m.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: In.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: This hour, we're assuming that Claudia's already out.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Claudia, if she was actually going to work, I believe
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: by 5.42, she would have already been getting close to
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: her work because her work starts at 6 a.m. So
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: when this was captured, it was literally only... you know, what,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: like 18 minutes before her shift starts.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised. Sorry, really quickly. I'm actually surprised at
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: how dark it was. For some of your trees, I
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: thought it was lighter than this.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: It was somewhat dark at this hour because we see
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: that the streetlights are still on. North Yorkshire police released
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: CCTV footage of this vehicle during major appeals, hoping the
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: public could identify who was inside of it. Detectives wanted
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: to know if the car stopped to offer Claudia a
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: lift to work or if the driver witnessed something significant.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Because Claudia's phone remained in the York area and detectives
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: concluded that her disappearance was a targeted attack by someone
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: she knew, finding the driver of this car became a
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: major focus in piecing together the timeline of her disappearance.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: And we have a couple of screenshots here of this car.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: So apparently, as I can see, yeah, you're looking at
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: the correct ones. From the CCTV stills that we can see,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: it does look to me that the car starts braking.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: As you can see, like the lights come on.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You can see it.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: And we have a different angle of it apparently approaching
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: the location where it was breaking. So, yeah.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: The place is kind of dark and gray.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: I would find it a bit scary to walk around alone.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: And I went online and I saw people on Reddit
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: commenting that some people were saying that this could potentially
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: be a getaway car. driven by an accomplice at the
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: request of the killer. And someone else added to that
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: comment that, yeah, it was a car caught breaking on
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: CCTV right outside of Claudia's house in the morning after
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: whatever went down, went down. So basically, I find it,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: I guess, entirely possible that this could be A car
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: driven by someone who maybe knew the killer of Claudia
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: and was about to assist them to remove her body.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Because it does look like that
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: could be possible here.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: It could be a possibility. It's just so interesting at
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: how empty the streets are.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it's 5.40 a.m. Not one, though. You know, it's like,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: York is not that big. York is not a very
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: big town. So I wouldn't expect.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: It's not as odd.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't expect a lot of people at this hour.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It's a work day.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: So whoever was a driver of this car, and I'm
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: assuming that maybe... Do you think there's a chance that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: this is just a random passerby?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I think there's a chance, definitely, that this car is
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: not connected.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: Completely innocent driving back to, I don't know, wherever, and
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: they just didn't hear the plea of the police for
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: them to step forward.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's entirely possible. I think it could be
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: like even some kids out of towners that don't even
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: know about the case.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: I could see how this was.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: But could you also see it being an accomplice?
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I could see it also being an accomplice, to be honest.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: I think the people on Reddit made a fair point,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: in my opinion. this stuff so let's jump to the
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: second clue this or maybe the third clue or like
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: piece of information that we kind of graced past last
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: week and this would be about the 59 year old
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: man who lived close by and also worked at the
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: university now we know that this is michael snelling michael
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: snelling was a former university of your colleague and the
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: neighbor He was arrested in May 2014, five years after
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Claudia disappeared. He was arrested on suspicions of murdering Claudia.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: He was questioned, his home was searched, and he was
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: later released on bail. Michael Snelling was a former colleague
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: of Claudia's working as a biology laboratory technician at the
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: University of York, where she was employed as a chef.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: They were known to be acquaintances with Michael occasionally giving
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: her lifts in his car, and both of them being
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: regulars at the Nags Head pub. On May 13, 2014,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: five years after Claudia disappeared, He became the first person
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: arrested in connection with the case. Following his arrest, police
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: carried out extensive forensic searches at his home in Burnholm Grove, York.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe this is a new location. Maybe he moved ever since,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: you know, because it was five years later. As well
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: as property belonging to his mother in the town of
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: North Shields. A car was also seized during the operation.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: After being placed on conditional police bail and undergoing months
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: of investigation, North Yorkshire Police officially released Michael from his
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: bail without charge on November 17th in 2014. So, my
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: thought about this is that, I mean, to be honest,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: the first thing that jumps to me is that they
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: probably have something more on Michael Snelling than what we have. Because,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: I know that this guy is, like, known to give her,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: you know, a lift to work.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: But is that enough for the police to actually go
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: inside this place and search it? It feels like they
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: have more.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like they maybe have more information. I guess
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: he's also at the nag's head a lot, you know,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: at the pub. So I don't really know what to
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: make of it. But it seems that there's nothing that
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: came out of it, so... I don't know if we
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: can gauge anything else from this. The other thing that
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: we jumped into more this week was Paul Harris, the
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: landlord of the Acom Pub. So Paul Harris, remember, was
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: the landlord of the Acom Pub in New York who
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: was arrested on the same year. So they arrested at
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: first Michael Snelling. Now they arrested Paul Harris.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Sorry, really quickly. Is this the same guy who complained
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: about the police incident? Ruining his basement?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. This is the same guy. And they arrested
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: him in July of 2014, also five years after Claudia's disappearance.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: This time he was arrested on perverting the course of
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: justice during the investigation. And apparently Claudia Lawrence had been
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: a customer at his pub in the weeks prior to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: her disappearance. In July of 2014... He was arrested, he
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: was 46, so he would have been 41 during the
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: time when Claudia disappeared. And he was arrested because of
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: a minor discrepancy in a witness statement that he gave
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: back in 2019, so it really came back to haunt
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: him five years later. Police used power tools and jackhammers
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: to dig up sections of concrete in his pub's cellar
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: and removed items including doors and a chest of drawers.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Paul Harris maintained his innocence throughout, stating that he only
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: had a brief, casual acquaintance with Lawrence. He was released
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: from police bail without charge that same year. Following his release,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Paul Harris spoke out publicly on Sky News. He said
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: that police had fed him to the wolves and given
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: the Claudia Lawrence family false hope about finding out what happened.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: While social media scrutiny heavily impacted his business and his
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: family because Paul Harris name was put out there in
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: the public he said that due to the attention that
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: he had his business and his family got affected personally
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: so if he is innocent it is very unfortunate what
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: has happened to him I don't know if he's Guilty, though,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: would you see any way that he would be guilty?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think you have to agree with me
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: that how can we know anything, right?
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like all of the information we have
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: here is generalized. Like, there must be a reason why
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: the police went into his basement and dug it out. Right?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: It's not like they just go in a random dude's
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: house and just dig out their basement. They must have
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: something more.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, apparently it was a minor... discrepancy uh when
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: he was giving his statement to police so he apparently
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: lied about something to police potentially and that came back
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: to bite him five years later but.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: Isn't like his basement a bit too specific basement of
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: not his house right basement of his bar a pub.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: And how would he be involved would that mean that
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: he was the guy who went to his to claudia's
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: place in the early morning hours, killed Claudia, then took
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: her body and hid her body in his basement somehow.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Somehow. Well, the police didn't find anything in his basement,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, right?
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what they were actually thinking here. I'm
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: pretty sure they had the reasons, you know, but I
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: just can't imagine those reasons.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. It's just very interesting. A minor discrepancy
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: in his statements is enough for the police to literally
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: dig his basement, not his home basement.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: His pub basement. It's just very interesting. Maybe that discrepancy
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: wasn't as minor as I'm thinking.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was something pretty serious. Now
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: we're jumping to, I believe, The last car clue in
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Claudia's case, and this is the Astra van. Astra van,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: I believe, is a brand of a little van that
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: is used by, you know, all kinds of working professions,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: I think, in the UK. We also have these in
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Lithuania as well. It's like these little vans, you know,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: where like it has like two doors, but they're like
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: a really big trunk back. And it's like used by
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: guys who would drive around and, you know, they're either
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: like repairing something on the go. So in the Claudia
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: Lawrence disappearance case, an untraced white Vauxhall Astrovan was spotted
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: parked opposite her home on Heworth Road at approximately 9 p.m.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: on March 18, 2009, the night when she was last
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: seen alive. So the 9 p.m. timestamp would kind of
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: put this citing in between the last message that Claudia
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: sent via her phone and the one that she received
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: by seemingly that you know Cyprus man so between these
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: two you know events we know that Claudia you know
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: most likely still alive I would I would bet the
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: astro man was seen parked opposite side of Police were
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: specifically asking for information about it. For some reason, this
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Astra van seemed quite interesting for them. Despite extensive appeals
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: and the release of footage by police in 2014, the
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: driver of this vehicle has never been identified and has
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: never came forward to clear their name. The vehicle remains
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: a critical, unsolved lead in one of the largest investigations
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: in North Yorkshire police history. Detectives strongly believe that Claudia
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: fell victim to an attack with someone who she knew
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: and was deeply familiar with the local area. So basically,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: we have the footage. We have the footage finally. I'm
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: looking at this. I'm just showing you what I'm looking at.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know if this is a police
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: car driving past or maybe it's a police car driving past.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But as you can see, like someone
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: is driving past.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: What's with the blue light, though? Is it a blue light?
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Is it even in the car or is it in
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: the building behind it?
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: That's a very good point. Actually, I didn't really see
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: it before you mentioned it. It does seem that there
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: is some sort of a blue light coming either from
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: the window of the terrace home behind the car or
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: it's coming from the car itself.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's from the window behind the car
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: because if you would look at the first one.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like on the roof.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Let me check.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: The light I meant. If you zoom in. And then
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: the other one, it's kind of like in front of it.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: So the car was clearly moving or something. Or... Yeah.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I think the car is parked.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. So I meant the car who took this picture.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, that car was moving. Absolutely.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: So I'm assuming this was just a regular... What do
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: you call this car?
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: Astrovan?
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Astrovan.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: What do you think about this car? I mean, it
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: looks like a very non....
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't have it let's put it this way no I
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: meant like as a regular person with an office job
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: i wouldn't have it i think maybe i'm just assuming
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: maybe regular people have it too but i'm assuming for
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: you to have this kind of car you would need
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: some sort of business right.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: I think usually people have it for a business purpose. Absolutely.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's very convenient for the day-to-day stuff.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like it's way too clunky and massive for,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: you know, just driving to the office and back like
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: city car.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Driving your kids to school.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, but, you know, okay, so what does this tell us?
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: This tells us that this car is never identified. This
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: means that this car is probably not... From the neighborhood?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because people there would recognize it.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. So if this car is, let's say, not
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: from the neighborhood, what does that mean? What does that mean?
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: Does that mean that this is a car that was
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: parked at 9 p.m. in this area opposite the street
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: where Claudia disappears?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: And....
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: And then it never comes back to this neighborhood.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting that no one actually noticed it.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: But then again, I'm putting myself in the shoes of someone,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: a local there. I don't think I would notice it.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't notice the car?
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Would you? If, for example, you lived there all
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: your life. Because you're more aware of cars.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. I don't know if I would notice it, to
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: be honest. It doesn't look like there's a lot of
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: cars on the street.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: So maybe I would notice it.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: It looks pretty empty.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I would notice it. And this is something
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: interesting because I was kind of, you know, like trying
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: to dig into each one of these clues that we
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: didn't really dig into last week. This is why we're
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: doing Claudia Lawrence episode number two is because we're digging
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: into stuff heavy. We're trying to dig it out, dig
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: this stuff out here. So what I found was quite fascinating.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: And this is where things could get very interesting, potentially,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: because hear me out here. Okay. I went on Reddit
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: and I found a post. And the post was quite peculiar.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. I'm going to read you
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: the post and I hope we're going to understand what's
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: happening here. Okay, so... There was a post and it
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: had a picture. It had a picture. Do you see
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: the picture with the white circle? Yeah, that looks like
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: a similar car, right? And basically, maybe I'm even going
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: to summarize what the post says without even having to
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: read it. And I'm going to show this image also
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: on the YouTube channel. So you see the car in
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: the white circle? Would you agree that it looks similar?
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: I'm terrible at cars.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: No, but like, come on.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, I would say. Because the thing is, I know
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: I'm easily trashable with cars. Because I would say, oh yeah,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: they're similar. But they could have been completely different.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: I guess they could be different. But at the very least,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: I will say it's possible.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: They're both big and clunky, and they look like nobody
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: who does not own a business.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Would own it. So what we're looking at in the
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: second picture, because I'm going to try to describe this
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: to the people that are listening to this podcast, and
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: they're not actually checking this out on the YouTube channel.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: So basically, we are looking at a Google Street View
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: image dated to March 2009. same month when Claudia disappears.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: And this Google Street View image is taken apparently, well,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the positioning of it, the direction which we're
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: looking at, apparently is looking towards a business owned by
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: one of the four men who were arrested. Oh, crap.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: So this is why things get very peculiar. Who is
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: this guy? Well, this is PR. PR, the infamous PR.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: I guess we're going to mention him a bit later.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: He is, I can't confirm this in any way, but
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: apparently if you go on Reddit, go online, go on
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: the forums, people are commenting that PR is responsible. Everyone
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: knows that PR did it. It's just police didn't connect.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: don't have enough evidence, and apparently PR and his friends
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: at the Nags Head are actually the four guys that
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: were submitted to the court. But the court said, oh,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: we don't have enough evidence. But what do you think now?
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: This is quite curious.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: Dude, I'm having goosebumps right now.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: It's a curious situation.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. If it were real.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: If it's real. So that's all we have, to be honest.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: Now let's move to the next one, okay? So the
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: next one would be the next clue that we digged
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: into this week. I know you're still looking at the pictures.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: No, I actually fed it to ChatGPT because I'm trying
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: to make sense if it's actually the same car. Because
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: as a car dummy, I'm just maybe overanalyzing things. Because
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: from the CCTV footage, it looks like the one is
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: curbed up. Like it has a shorter back. But from
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: the Google image, it looks like the car has a
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: longer back. Once again, maybe it's just the angle.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Shorter back and longer back.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Like see? Like for this one.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you have a point here. But
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: I also feel like it could be the same car.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: And mind you.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: And what are the chances?
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: Big chance. Big chances.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Of really?
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: This is a very common car.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: This is a very common car at the time in UK,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: according from what people are saying. Okay. So the. Chances
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: that this is just a coincidence are also quite big.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: But also the chances that it's not a coincidence are
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: also there, in my opinion.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: So it could be or it could not be.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. 50-50. Yeah, but this is cool digging that someone
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: did on Reddit. I mean, kudos for these guys.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: It's crazy digging. It's amazing.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: So now we jump to the other one. Another clue, man.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: Another clue, which is the unidentified man walking nearby to
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: the alleyway at the rear of Claudia's home.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, actually, this is super creepy because when you sent
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: me that link, for our listeners, it's in YouTube. Actually,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: if you would just Google Claudia Lawrence CCTV, it's literally
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: the first video. And it's just a compilation of CCTV footage.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: And I actually watched it like two times the speed
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: just to speed it up and one thing i noticed
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: the most obvious thing i noticed is this guy right
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: here yeah the some sort of like a big guy
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: with i don't know like black jacket yeah.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: This is the one that's uh i think.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: I think going back and forth i don't.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: Know So let me quickly read what I have here
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: on this thing and then I'll tell you more about it.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: So there is a crucial piece of CCTV footage of
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: a man walking down a path wearing dark clothing carrying
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: a bag. And just over a minute later the same
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: man returns towards the corner where Claudia lives. This man
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: has not been identified and the unidentified man captured on
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: CCTV walking near the alleyway at the rear of Claudia
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Lawrence's home remains one of the most critical unsolved leads
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: in the investigation into her disappearance. The footage was released
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: by police during a case review and the footage captures
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: a suspect behaving suspiciously just hours before the 35-year-old Claudia
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: Lawrence is believed to have been harmed. Detectives isolated two
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: significant timelines involving the unidentified individual near back of Claudia's
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: terror's house on Heworth Road in New York. The first
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: part is that which took place on March 18 at 7.15 p.m.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: So this is the time. when Claudia has not even
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: sent her final text message to someone. So we know
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: that Claudia is most likely still alive during the time
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: when the first portion of like the two sets of
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: footages that took place. So during the first portion at 7.15 p.m.,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: we know Claudia probably is alive, but the footage shows
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: a person walking into heworth place an alleyway leading to
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: directly to the rear of claudia's home a minute later
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: the individual returns carrying a bag over their shoulder Crucially,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: the person stops abruptly when another passerby walks past, waiting
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: until they are gone before continuing towards Heworth Road. This
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: was so spooky. And if you, I don't know if,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: can you find the link? I have like this link
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: where it says video, right? I don't know. Let's see
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: if you could find it. It's right above the stills
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: of the.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I could find it.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: Let's try to open it. Let's see if we could
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: view it together online right now. Because I want you
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: to kind of like do a reaction of it, if
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: it's even going to load. If you open up the link,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: it's going to be a BBC article. And if you
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: scroll down, it's going to be, yeah.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just waiting for the ads to go.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: So I don't have any ads, so I'm already viewing it.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: So let's just view it. And I might put this
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: on the YouTube channel. Yeah. I just wanted to react
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: to the time when he walks back a minute later
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: and he stops. This is literally so spooky to me.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I want to get your, you know, live...
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: Because you seem to be noticing a lot of good
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: stuff today. So maybe you'll see some more interesting stuff.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: Okay. So from what I could see at the very beginning,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: there's this guy talking. walking towards the right.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: Is this the direction of Claudia's apartment?
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: The back of her apartment.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: The back. Okay. And then BBC says, the person goes
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: out of camera, shot, but reappears just over a minute later,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: possibly carrying a bag over their shoulder.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: And look, they stop. Do you see how they stop
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: when they see someone?
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: One second. The person heads back toward him. He were
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: thrown and suddenly stops when They see someone else walk past.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: And look, look at the video. Wait, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: I'm also looking at it right now. I mean, it
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: does look like they just stopped when they saw another
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: guy walking back, walking past.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's creepy.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: That is creepy, right?
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: Because the thing is, there's a possibility that this guy
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: may have dropped something, but then again, he didn't stoop.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe he was checking if he had this wallet on,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: but it's just the timing.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: It's odd. The thing is, for me personally, why I
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: don't see the reason for him to even be... I
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: don't even see the reason for him to... Be all like,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: oh my God, someone's walking past. I'm going to stop
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to be real scared. Because we know that,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: or at least we suspect, that Claudia is still alive
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: at this hour. Claudia is not dead. She sent another message.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: So most likely Claudia is still alive. But the weird
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: part is that the same guy is later caught again.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was supposed to say that maybe this could
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: be just a regular guy going home. And then a
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: minute later, he forgets something or he lost something. And
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: so he went back to retrace the steps. You could
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: see that happening, right?
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: I could see that happening.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: But then again, what's this weird like he was seen again?
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: He was seen again. So the information we have is
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: the man is captured again in the same vicinity at 5.07 a.m.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: The following morning, you know, this is when we know
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: that Claudia might be dead at this hour. 5.07.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: She was already out and potentially walking.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Potentially or she's dead. We don't know, unfortunately.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: Or abducted.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: Abducted. So this man is captured again in the same
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: vicinity on the morning Claudia was scheduled to walk to work.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: He disappears from you in the rear alley for roughly
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: one minute before returning. The same thing. He pulls the
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: same stunt. This guy pulls the same stunt in the
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: morning when Claudia goes missing. Can we just agree that
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: there are so many strange things happening around Claudia's apartment
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: that day? Like there are so many different weird things happening.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: Investigators noted that poor CCTV coverage and low resolution around
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: the Heworth area at the time hampered attempts to get
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: a clear facial profile. According to BBC News, Detective Superintendent
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: Day Malin stated that the identity of the man near
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: the alleyway remains a vital element of the case. However,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: police cannot accept any speculative information. identification without conclusive backing
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: evidence despite multiple police appeals to the public and the
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: fresh search of the alleyway itself this individual has never
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: been formally identified or ruled out of the invest by
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: the investigation so what do you think about this guy
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: now you we have to say that something's not right.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: Here seems like he was waiting for someone to I'm
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: trying to think about it in a, oh, this guy
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: is creepy completely. But it feels like he was either
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: waiting for someone or... I don't know. I don't know
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: what he was doing.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: To me, if this is foul play, I could see
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: maybe him going in the back and just checking if....
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: She's already out.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: She's out.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe he checked if she's in the house and then
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: she was out. But then, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: could be the case. Now, I think this is the
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: last one. Okay. Last one is the four men that
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: were arrested on suspicious of murder. I know this podcast
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: is probably very long now, but it just has to
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: be done because it's a very big case.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: And if you're still listening, thank you so much.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, guys. So in March and April
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: of 2015, police arrested four men in their 50s from
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: the York area on suspicion of the murder of missing
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: chef Claudia Lawrence. However, none of the four men were
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: ever charged and they will not face murder trials. Following
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: a comprehensive cult case review launched in 2013, police arrested
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: one man on March 23rd, 2015, and three additional men
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: on April 22, 2015. All four suspects were known to
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: frequent the Nags Head pub near Claudia's home. Police prepared
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: and submitted a detailed file of evidence to the Crown
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: Prosecution Service to consider formal murder charges. On March 8, 2016,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: CPS officially decided not to bring charges against any of
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: the four men citing a lack of sufficient evidence to
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: provide a realistic prospect of conviction. Detective Superintendent Dave Mallin,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: who led the North Yorkshire Police Review, expressed intense frustration
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: that the investigation was severely compromised. He publicly blamed a
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: wall of silence from certain elements of the local community,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: stating that the case against the suspect was hindered by
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: widespread reluctance of key witnesses to cooperate with police inquiries,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: a flat-out refusal from certain individuals to come forward with information,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: people being deliberately economical with the truth to protect others. Legally,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: police and British media never officially released the names of
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: the four suspects to avoid compromising the investigation or defending
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: defaming the individuals while unverified names have occasionally circulated in
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: local gossip and online true crime forums. They have never
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: been validated by law enforcement. So now I will say this,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: there is this big big massive article on medium you
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: know medium is like a place where you could find
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: the articles usually they're paid but this one by major
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: lang the author is major lang this one's free and
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: it's crazy long the estimated read time is two hours
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: it's like a book oh my gosh this guy major
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: lang he wrote a book he wrote a book on
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: this case uh I'm going to even leave a link
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: in the description for all of our listeners because this
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: article doesn't just appear if you do Google search. I
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: only found it because someone else mentioned it on Reddit. Otherwise,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: I had no idea that this massive article is there.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: So if anyone is really interested, you could kind of...
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: of go in it. And I graced past it. I
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't do all of it. And the investigation there seems
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: pretty legit. Like this guy did a big, thorough research
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: on it. Mm-hmm. Like, it's the type of research that
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: you would need, like, several podcasts to just kind of dissect. Essentially,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: what are we talking about? We're talking about essentially that
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: PR is a man by the name of Peter Ruan, okay?
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: I believe that PR is Peter Ruan. I'm not saying
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: that he's guilty. I'm just saying that when people are
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: saying PR in the, you know, like... on credit, they're
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: actually mentioning Peter Ruan. And it seemed like this Peter
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: Ruan was a friend of Claudius, okay? He was a
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: friend of Claudius and apparently a drinking buddy at the
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: Nag's Head. Now, he was apparently dating a younger woman
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: by the name of Jen King. Jen King, okay? And
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: apparently Jen King and Claudia Lawrence were friends, but something
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: happened and the relationship turned sour. They were no longer friends.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: And it is kind of indicated, I believe, by the
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: people online that are claiming that, oh, Peter Ruan is responsible,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: is that apparently they're saying that Peter Ruan may have
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: been having an affair with with Claudia at the time,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: and that Peter Wan, somehow alongside the other three suspects
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: that were arrested, which, by the way, all of them
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: are identified in Major Lang's Medium post that you could read,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: apparently they somehow are responsible for Claudia's disappearance, and Jen
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: King is also apparently potentially involved This is what the
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: people are claiming. I'm not claiming anything. You know, we're
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: not claiming anything. We're just kind of like sharing what
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: we found. So I'm sharing this. Yeah, I'm just sharing
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: this information with you guys. And well, this same guy
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: drove the car or his business had a car similar parked,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: which was similar to the Astrovan. And there's other things
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: there in the in the Medium post that I didn't
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: really establish. But we do have a picture of Claudia, Peter,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: and Jen King, apparently. Jen King is the woman on
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: the very right, I believe. And people are saying online
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: that he is definitely responsible for the murder.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: From the picture, they did look like they were in
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: a close relationship. Either friendship or something else, I don't know.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: But it did look like, you know, it was some
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: sort of environment where she was comfortable with him, he
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: was comfortable with her.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I went on Reddit, and on Reddit people
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: are saying this. Someone says, I don't know, but I
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: read from another subreddit that locals and even police knew
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: who did it, but they didn't have the evidence to...
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: lock him up, and then someone is responding, locals generally
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: believe that it's someone known as PR, but no one
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: has enough proof, hence why people are also generally avoiding
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: naming the person, but I don't care, but why would
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: you not name him? Just name an individual, you know?
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: We're not accusing this individual. Someone says, do you remember
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: if that person actually knew her, or if they were
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: just a stranger, and the reply is, The person with
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: the initials PR was Claudia's close friend's partner. So the
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: close friend would be Jen King, and he was a
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: partner of Jen King. And he was also one of
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: Claudia's drinking buddies. And there are rumors that he was
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: one of the married coupled men that she was having
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: an affair with. PR was arrested but released without charge
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: and has since been interviewed on a podcast saying he
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with her disappearance. Okay, so there's
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: a podcast that I did not know about. It is
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: widely accepted in the local area of York that police
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: know who killed her, but with no body and a
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: lack of solid evidence, they can't bring charges. Yet the pub...
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: That's a key part of it all. Apparently more than
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: one person knows what happened. And someone saying that I'm
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: extremely confident it was PR. Anyone who knows the suspects
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: arrested will know who that is. A girl that's younger
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: than 30 had been going to a nag's head recently
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: and got on with him and went back to his
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: house for drinks. and ended up passing out asleep. When
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: she woke up, he was over her with his trousers off.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: If he's capable of that, I think it speaks volumes
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: about what else he's potentially done. So I'm not saying
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: that Peter Wan did any of this. I'm just saying
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: that a username on Reddit called Shadows, N-E-A-X, Shadows Next,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: two years ago made a comment about how someone with
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: initials was on top of a girl who was below
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: the age of 30 with his trousers off after they
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: went to his place and she passed out. So I'm
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: just saying that this person made this comment. I'm not
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: saying anything bad about Peter Ruanne.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: You're just reading the comment.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just reading a comment. So I'm not insinuating anything.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to leave this. Hopefully this podcast, hopefully
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: I just like unlocked some sort of a Pandora box
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: for someone who's interested.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely a Pandora box. But okay, wait, before
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: we move on, I would like to know more about
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: this PR, this Peter. Is there anything... more about him
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: like do we have more information that could you know
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: give us more indication that oh okay he might have
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: done it because right now it feels like the locals
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: and the police kind of knew it was him but
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: like is there any like indication i'm not saying like
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: evidence but i'm more saying like more gossips rumors whatsoever.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: So i think the biggest thing that would connect him
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: i guess is people are claiming he's one of the
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: four men arrested mm-hmm So that would be it. The
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: police probably have something. Yeah, I could see that happening.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: But maybe not enough. And also they had a close relationship.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: And he could have potentially, potentially cheating on his partner.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Jen King was the friend that the relationship turned sour.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: And yeah. So I would like to maybe wrap it
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: up here because this has been a long podcast. And
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: I don't have any more conclusions about PR necessarily. But
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: I will say this. I will just say that maybe
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: there's a follow-up on Claudia Loren sometime down the line.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: You know what's going to be interesting here?
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: If we ever go to York. Yeah. Yeah. And ask
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: around the area.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, UK is a place that we
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: are supposed to go soon, one way or another, for
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: other reasons, not like content reasons.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Tourism.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: Tourism, let's say. Yeah, let's put it that way. So
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: if we ever go to UK, which is so easy.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: It's like we have flights.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: It's a 20-euro flight.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: We got 20-euro flights to London. Seriously, it's so easy.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: Or like 30 or whatever. So if we ever go
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: to the UK, I think we should go to York
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: and we should go to the Nags Head.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and walk around the area.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, walk around the area and maybe film around a bit.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: Because no one's really doing that. Why not film around
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: a little bit and try to do some more... Digging.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: More digging. So I feel like definitely we might be
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: going there, potentially.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: And maybe we'll hear more about the locals. take on
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: it you know because you know like what we have
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: we're just basing everything on internet information i'm not saying
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get like official information there but maybe there
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: are some information that the locals know.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: Well it seems from the reddit that everyone knows yeah.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah because i'm very curious about this peter guy like
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: what do the locals know about him that we don't
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: that the internet don't yeah.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: But i think this is a good good uh good
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: Good content. Good podcast that we did.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: Dude.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: Crazy long. I don't even know how.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: Long this is. 32 pages. Those are your notes. It
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: was a very long one and you put your heart
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: and soul into this.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: And not really but it was just a lot of
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: uh copy pasting.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah i guess okay if you put it that way.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah so thank you guys for listening to the podcast.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: Let us know what you think about claudia's case and
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: we definitely hope justice will.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: Be served one way or another yeah thank you guys
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you on the next one and
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: leave leave your thoughts on the case and And if
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: you want us to return to this topic, which.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: We might have to.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we might have to.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Wait, if we're going to return to this topic, what
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: else is there to talk about?
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: I guess there's that major Lang medium post. It's like a,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: he wrote a book.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: It's like a book. So you could, there's something.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: There's still something. Jesus, guys. It's crazy.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys. Thank you. And we'll talk to.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: You later then. See you. Thank you for listening. Bye-bye.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: Bye.