Latest / SCARS AND ALL / Narcotics Detective’s Son, Addicted to Narcotics | Harold Greenawald | Ep. 4

Transcript

Narcotics Detective’s Son, Addicted to Narcotics | Harold Greenawald | Ep. 4 · SCARS AND ALL

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the Scars in All Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: As always, I'm Frank Wills, your host, and today we got a special guest for you guys.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, good friend of mine.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've known him for about three years now, and he was actually a resident at one of my treatment centers who has surmounted all odds, all obstacles, all adversity.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um he was actually a pain in the ass for quite some time, actually for a couple years.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um but now he's sitting here with three years sober, right?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Three years?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Three years sober.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um he actually works for me, and I thought it would be great to get him on the podcast to hear his story and hear how he came to be and and just kind of what life was like for him growing up in Pennsylvania and the kind of scars and trauma that he had to deal with and he's had to overcome.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to welcome Harold to the podcast.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, Frank.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's all we we talked about it over the phone a little bit, like all of this stuff is pretty surreal, you know.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, this is this is insane.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought I'd be sitting here like this.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's definitely a podcast, it's definitely on film, it's definitely kind of like different, you know what I mean?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're not used to saying anything on camera, right?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, they they definitely didn't have these setups when you were doing drugs.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: If they did, there was something else going on.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a little bit.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so what do you think of the set?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's pretty cool, right?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I keep looking at this bike on it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Does it work?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, it could.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely a real motorcycle.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it took six of us to get it up here, so it was quite the it was quite the feat.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it kind of goes with the vibe.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love Harley's.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: You recently purchased a motorcycle, I understand.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's fun.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: That dyno, yeah, I love it.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the coolest things in the world.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Cause it's like, it's almost like like roller coasters and skydiving, you know, you kind of just pivot over to a yeah, to throw.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, at the end of the day, we're still who we are, and we still like to, you know, get that rush or what have you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: We just channel it in a different way and and different, you know, use different methods to to attain a similar uh effect.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me about yourself, where you grew up, uh, the family, the dynamic, um, what was it like?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: What was how was it for you, the experience um growing up?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're you're still pretty young, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 26, turning 27 in November.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I grew up in a very small town, Hamburg, Pennsylvania.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe about a hundred thousand people in the whole town, you know.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't even think you guys have a town within a hundred miles of this place that is as small as Hamburg is, you know.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's as traditional as it gets.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you want to talk about surrounded by uh foreign fields, um, all you did was hunted and fished.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I loved it growing up.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually cool.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love fishing.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been hunting, but I love fishing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, yeah, it's one of the greatest things in the world.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um now I understand there's a there's a there's an Amish population near you, right?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot of Amish people out there.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: So what was it like like just cruising by in your car and then seeing them in horse and buggy and stuff?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: You you got you got used to it eventually, you know?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so in the town my mom grew up, Fleetwood, that's where they were mostly at.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say Fleetwood's about 45 minutes away.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: You would always just see them on their horse and buggies just kind of just kind of rolling around, you know.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now they sell stuff, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: They like bake goods and they have restaurants and stuff like that.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh, not really restaurants, so like there's a difference between Amish and Mennonite.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Amish is very strict, they they don't really use cell phones, no electricities, no cars, nothing like that.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: But then the Mennonite are a little less strict, so like they'll be the ones who will use a work van.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: They won't they won't take it out for just for fun, like it'll be for work stuff only.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So a little less strict.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's all.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they're like kind of into acclimating to regular society a little bit, or at least at least using some of the benefits of technology and things like that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if it if it if it makes work easier, like they'll use it.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have any friends growing up?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Did they do they go to public school?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, at least like in my in my school, we didn't have any.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I heard there there was some in the in the town next to me, but if they were going to school, they were doing some kind of woodworking, or uh they were in the machine shop.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's all they really kind of did.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've always found that that kind of thing fascinating.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's so fascinating.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a completely different way of life, you know.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they're just kind of left in their own little world, you know, and they just they're very yeah, like they're very family oriented, you know.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And plus, like I don't know if you've seen the thing, like once they turn 18, they're given the opportunity to like abandon that kind of a lifestyle.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: They get a pass, right?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: For a while, a year, something like that.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for as long as they want.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and then they can come back.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the catch is like nobody can talk to them.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like out of out of their uh uh family and friends.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: While they're gone?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: They call it uh rumspringham.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Rumspringham.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like uh it's essentially like like like 18, you're becoming an adult, so they give you the opportunity to learn about the rest of the world.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if you decide to come back, they'll they'll they'll accept you right away.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: But if you decide to stay out, well then they're not gonna talk to you.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, so you're basically banished.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's rough.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Hamburg, Pennsylvania, mom and dad, brothers, sisters.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh mom and dad and my sister.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Sister, one sister.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: What does dad do for a living?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my my dad works for the state of Pennsylvania.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: He is actually a narcotics detective there.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that did not know that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody did.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, no one no one knew that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, a narcotics detective.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he ended up having a son that was habitually addicted to narcotics.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, like it's a little ironic, but if well, once I go into it a little bit more, it'll make much more sense.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's get into it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was uh a very confusing thing for me for a long time.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um in what sense?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he was very uh he was very good at his job, you know.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like if you Google his name, one of the top things that he did was he took down a sex trafficking ring out of Philadelphia.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you know.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I always had this really weird idea.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, like this this guy was cool.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, like you know how I am.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now just imagine him just an older version.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like pretty laid back.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like dude, he just hunted and fished and just did whatever.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he was a really chill guy, you know.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like he just did a lot of stuff, you know.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it kind of got confusing for a while.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, me and my sister, like when social media got really big, it was kind of weird on whether or not that like we could take pictures with him because like he he was like very like underneath everything, you know.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of undercover.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like he he never had any kind of a social media, so it was weird taking pictures with him sometimes, and a lot of late hours, you know.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like there were some days like we wouldn't see him for like a month or two.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: He had to go back in for training and all this other stuff.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it was this really weird thing where like we couldn't really talk about it with my friends, but obviously some people knew because it was a small town, you know.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also uh like first he worked over in Philadelphia and then he moved out eventually.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, just a really weird dynamic.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it was well, yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: What was that like for you?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Does that feel like you had like almost like a hidden father kind of like a like it wasn't a regular family, or you see, was there any like envy or jealousy watching your other friends and their family dynamic with the father and things like that?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, not really like like the older I get, the more appreciation I have for him.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right, obviously.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: He was the the most stand-up guy in the world, like like coolest guy, like coolest guy ever, you know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you really think about it, like the only difference between a drug dealer as and and a cop is one is trying to catch them and the other is trying to sell it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's they're they're using the same methods in one way or another.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're just on it's the same coin, just two different sides.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I get that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was it was really weird seeing it, you know?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, like you hear the music, you hear kids at school, like we were at a point where cops got a really bad reputation for a while, and I was like, damn, well, my dad's pretty cool.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like this dude taught me everything, how to play sports, you know, like like we used to just practice for fucking hours outside.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: We used to he like he taught me everything about hunting and fishing, and the thing is, like, we did it well, you know.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like we spent a lot of extra hours, more time than anybody else, doing stuff that people didn't want to put the time in for.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And because of it, we got a lot of results, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, what was mom like?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my mom.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: She had to be a pretty solid woman to yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was great.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I said, the last time she was here, uh me and her, we made these shish kebabs for everybody.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that was her thing.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: She loves throwing like little small parties for everything.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my mom's one of five, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So she's the second to oldest one, and she's just very, very motherly.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like she just like thrives in her role of that, you know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, did she work or was she a stay-at-home mom?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: She worked, yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um she used to work in an office.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you ever see the movie Office Space?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Literally that kind of a setting.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Cubicles, you know, nine to five, whatever, the whole thing, right?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but she made junk mail.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like spam mail.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like she like that's what her company did.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if you remember the men's health magazines.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: She was sending out the the letters to try and get people to sign up for that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it was that kind of a deal.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened was eventually magazines and books sort of started getting pushed to the side because the internet was blowing up, you know.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, she she got laid off sometime.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I want to say it was my sophomore or my junior year, you know.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that got kind of weird for a minute, you know.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because she spent her last 20 years or like 15, 20 years at this one company, got laid off, and then kind of kind of struggled on what to do next.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because a lot of people that like like their work becomes their identity to a certain point, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's your like that's your foundation.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like eight hours every day is pretty much your your routine, you know.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like her first priority was to wake up, being my sister for school, get ready for work, take care of my dad, and then and then go and do her stuff, right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, like after she got laid off, it kind of c it it really threw a a a whole wrench into her system, and it was kind of hard getting back on her feet after a while.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: It got weird.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll go into that in just a little bit, but that's that's kind of what she did.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So what was your first um exposure, would you I would say, to drugs and alcohol?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And what kind of led you up to that point?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just curiosity.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you see you see all the movies, you see all the older kids, right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I always played sports in a small school, so that just means you know everybody.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then plus I had a younger sister, so I knew all of her, she played sports too.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So like I knew all of her friends, she knew all of my friends, so we just knew everybody because of that, you know?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and just eventually we just started trying things, you know.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, alcohol was first, very simple.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I actually hated it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I remember me and my dad, we actually brewed our own beer, like let it sit in the basement, fermented over like I don't know, six months or whatever.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I tried it, like I like snuck it away uh one night when I had my friends over, and it was probably the worst tasting stuff I ever had in my entire life.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, like it wasn't a good batch whatsoever, like it was just terrible, you know.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I knew there was a reason, but like I don't know why I was so infatuated with it because like I'm I'm looking at all the adults and everybody older, like there's a reason these people are doing this, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, like I'm gonna figure it out, you know.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I just had like this very weird attract like uh attraction to it since forever.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: So were there's was there a lot of drinking going on in the home?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did your dad drink, mom drink?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: They did, but they were extremely functioning, you know, like like they were extremely functioning.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's there's really no other way to put it.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's funny, I learned a lot of stuff about my parents the older I got.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um both my parents were were were very popular growing up.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, dad was in a fraternity in college, I think my mom was the president of her sorority in college, you know.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So like they were just always involved with everything that just every honestly anything that had to do with a party.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was their thing, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like that was that was kind of one of the things that that that fucked my mom up for a while, was because after she lost her job, um, she had a she had a bit of a drinking problem for for a few months, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember she was saying to me, like, this is what me and my dad uh she said, your father and I, that's what we do is they drink.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I understood that, you know, like a small town in Pennsylvania.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't hunt and fish, there's not there's not like a lot, there's not a whole lot for you, you know?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Other than church or drinking.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was that's that's really like some of your only options, you know?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like obviously you can get in get in touch with like book clubs and stuff, but like book clubs.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you know, like I can see you in a book club, bro.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, we are we are in a book club playing.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we are in a book club.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Technically we are, yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So first exposure was alcohol.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: How old were you?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I had to have been a freshman 14, 15?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, freshman, probably.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like I had tried it before that.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember one time, like I was throwing out this mini fridge for my dad, and there was like a beer inside it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like took a sip of it, like literally just a sip, but it was the most awful thing in the world, so I instantly just threw it out, you know.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that didn't, like, I don't think that really counted because it was like so so young, you know what I mean?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't even matter.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the first real time I'd have to say was definitely fresh in year of high school, you know.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um the first real instance where where where I just took off with it, right?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was over at my friend's house, we were all there, like all of us played sports together.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what like either um in baseball, basketball, soccer, one of them we all played together, right?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um we were over at my friend's house, and then we just went through his k his parents' liquor cabinet and just ran with everything we could, you know.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was one of the first times.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I remember I drank way more than everybody else, but it was still alright, you know?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, like it it's it wasn't bad.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't bad.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was the issue was it was I was I started to fall in love with it right away, you know?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you developed a personal relationship with alcohol from the onset.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, of course.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like growing up as a kid, like you you see your your your f your family, especially drinking so much together, you you start to think of drinking with being having a good time.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's what it was for me, you know.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, alright, well, if we're gonna have a good time, that means we're gonna have to drink.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I would drink heavy with um with a lot of my friends and stuff, but I always had like some kind of sport uh sports game going on.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was either practice during the summer, games going on during the school, so it never got bad enough at that point to where like anybody would realize anything.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And plus, like I just I got just good enough grades where everybody kind of just left me alone.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of flew under the radar.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much, yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so at what point did so you graduated high school, obviously.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did not.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um Man, I I was honest, like I was forced along into into passing high school.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do you mean by that?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I hated school, but only because I I just thought it was a waste of time.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did very well at it when I tried.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't want to try, you know?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And because I played sports, like I'm always gonna remember this one guy, Mr.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Zimmerman.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: He like forced me into one of his AP uh was it AP Civics or something?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh but it was years ago.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Only because I played sports, he was the softball coach for a while, you know, he used to go to all the soccer games.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so late, like I just had like a bunch of teachers kind of like helping me along.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I never understood why, you know.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like for some reason these guys really liked me, and probably because they saw you had potential yeah, yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what fa that's what's their favorite word for me.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So much potential.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but potential is a weird thing, you know, because everybody else sees it, but you don't.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, of course not.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're living in your own skin.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you've got your own objectives and your own likes and dislikes, and like my potential involves me actually giving a fuck and doing what you want me to do, which is the opposite of what I want to do.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm not directly benef benefiting from it 30 seconds from now, then I'm not I'm not really involved in it, you know?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because the reward for trying in education is like that's the long game, you know what I mean?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And but for sports, there's very much uh instant gratification in that because you're playing, you're competing, yeah, there's a winner and a loser at the end of the day.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: But like to get A's and B's all through school, it's like okay, then because even if you finish high school, what are you gonna do with a high school diploma?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing really.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot you can't do without it, but the next thing is obviously college, and it's just like so now I have to keep trying and keep trying and live up to this potential.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's no instant gratification there.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's nothing behind it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing behind it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm happy I'm happy I did.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, I'm very, very happy I did.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because I did go into college for a very, very little bit.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at this point, like I was smoking weed every day, random pills here and there.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh random pills, okay.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of pills?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, it was as random as as it could come by.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh stealing stuff out of my girlfriend's mom's medicine cabinet, random stuff uh uh my friends would have at the time, and you know, so it was always some kind of a Xanax or somebody's Norcos that they had from like a surgery from months ago.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did you know to take pills?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where did that come from?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, the mood dude, you learn everything from movies and friends, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like if if I seen it in a movie, like I was trying it, you know.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was as straight, like, like I thought it was as straightforward as it as it went, because like in my mind, drugs and alcohol were a sign of having a good time, you know.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like I thought it would be stupid to not have a good time all the time, you know.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even for my graduation, uh, my high school graduation, I remember I just drank the entire time.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was it was actually pretty bad.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I was driving back to somebody's house after you know, walking across stage and doing everything, and I accidentally slammed my truck into like one of those gas station poles.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But luckily the truck's solid, just slipped a little bit in it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was like the first time I was like, ooh, you know what I mean?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like the first time I really had a good one, you know, and nothing bad happened, but I was like, ooh, that could have been bad, you know.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't, so let's move on.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that maybe would have been the first indication that what you're doing too much.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I'll probably go into it a little bit later, but like across all of it, there was always moments where I started noticing I was a little bit different than everybody else, you know.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like this time with was the very like a the most solid sign I've ever gotten, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was smoking weed with a bunch of my friends, we were going to the mall, and one of them literally just looked at me and said, like, dude, you know what?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to get so fried right now.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like I had the most disgusted look on my face when he said that because I was like, What do you mean?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What are you even talking about?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why why would you why would we not?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're not doing anything, it's not like we have work.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who who cares?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, let's just get fried out of our mind and go do whatever we want, you know?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But not everybody sees it that way.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there was, and so were you have coming to these realizations as you were Growing up, or are these all retrospective determinations based on the older you get and the longer you've been sober kind of thing?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I just ignored them.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I remember each moment where somebody was like, like, either they said like this always happened, they either said they didn't want to do Coke on like a Tuesday night, and I was like, why not?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or like my friend Blaze when he said, dude, you don't have to get so fried, and I was like, Why not?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember almost every moment where somebody like kind of questioned why I was doing so much at that at that point.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you just dismissed it.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course, because nothing was bad yet.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing was bad.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so when do things start to get bad?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right after right after I dropped out of college.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: That that's which was I was 18, 19, maybe.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically I had started doing coke every single day.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: That got really, really bad.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and about the same time my mom kind of lost her job and wasn't able to kind of pick up her pieces yet, you know.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there wasn't any focus on me from from the family or from anybody else, right?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to kind of just do whatever I wanted without without consequence at this point, you know.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I it was really weird.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was just doing a lot of cokes, seeing a bunch of random people drinking on top of it, and just driving around Pennsylvania.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because like 45 minutes in Pennsylvania will get you to the next town over, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: 45 minutes here might get you to like Pasadena.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Pasadena to Encino.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not, yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, or back home, it's a completely different, like each town's got its own vibe going on, you know?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's very different.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so I dropped out of college um because I had gotten a girlfriend pregnant at this point.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was probably one of the scariest moments, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was all coked out.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I figured I had to drop out of school, you know.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: What else was I gonna do?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also like I remember I I went to my dad and I was like, hey, like, like what do I do now?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I think I'm gonna go move in with her and just get a job and just try and figure it out, you know?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like I like I feel super weird about this to this day.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of looked at me and he was like, I have he's like, I I have nothing for you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, he's like, you're 18 now, and you're gonna have to figure it out.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of it, you know?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that was like the whole the whole conversation.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember we sat down, we were in the we were in the back living room, and then that was really it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just started packing and then and then I left, you know.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was a huge turning point, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because what was your expectation going into that conversation?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Did you think you would like offer more help or more assistance or at least some more advice?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, absolutely.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I was younger, like he was very much involved in my life, like he was always he always had something to say, you know?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this time he didn't.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So like so that like really scared me, you know.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was either like, damn, I fucked up so badly that he's got nothing to say now, or I just take what he's saying and just go, oh damn, well I'm 18 and I do gotta figure this out, you know.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it was weird.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to figure out whether this was extremely bad, or he was just disappointed, like yeah, you know, I'm I'm trying to weigh everything out.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like that hurt a little bit.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was super weird because like like if like you think about it, like I dropped out of school, that's gone for the time being, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like did this conversation take place after you dropped out of school?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Did he know that you dropped out of school?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even think we talked about it, but it it it was it was pretty much assumed at this point, you know.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I wasn't doing too well before that, and they and they knew that, you know.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um but like you don't do you don't you don't do well your freshman year, that's like 90% of college students, so like it's not that big of a deal, you know.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: You just take that fifth year and it's it's whatever, you know.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so I dropped out and we kind of went our our separate ways after that, you know.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I had a very big problem and I was gonna try and come up with a very big solution somehow.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: How'd that work out for you?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it went horrible.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude, everything like that shaped the rest of my life up until now.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was the the very turning point moment that my addiction took off.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even talk to my family anymore, you know.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um really it was just such a a weird time.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because like very shortly after that, um the the the the the the girl I got pregnant, her family was very much in the meth.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing coke, they were doing meth, and I remember I ran out one day and they said, Oh, this girl said she's like, Oh, well, like why don't you just try some of this, you know?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, what's what's this?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: She crushed it up on a piece of paper for me, lined it all up, and like I remember looking at it, and I was like, Well, it's white like Coke is if they're doing it and they're not dying right now, like how how bad could this be?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I did it, and then it was actually like the greatest day in the world.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because that's a game changer going from Coke to meth.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was the most confusing moment in my entire life.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I still remember the day.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was a sunny spring day.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: You guys can probably imagine it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all the le all the leaves on the trees are the brightest green in the world.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: The the sky is so blue, and like it is just a beautiful, cool but warm day outside.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's perfect, you know what I mean?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just kind of had my world, my, my world shattered, but I just tried meth for the first time, and then all of a sudden, everything is just making sense, you know.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, drugs aren't actually as bad as what everybody says they are, you know.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just dropped out of school, life's not over.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna figure this out, you know?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was it, like I think you will only understand it if you've done it before, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like that very first time you did meth, I'm always gonna remember that day.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was just the complete opposite of what everybody describes myth as to be, you know?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: What, like horrible?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because it is horrible.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: It it's absolutely horrible.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: See, all of those feelings and thoughts you were having were fake.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: They were brought on by a very synthetic source, a very euphoric thing that you probably habitually chased for a number of years after that.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: For the next four years, I think.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So was it really that great?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know it felt great in the moment because none of your problems even mattered.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing mattered.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing mattered.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely nothing mattered.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I was I was living in the trailer with the my my with my pregnant girl fan.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Living.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Started doing meth, and yeah, it was good.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Trailer in Hamburg, Pennsylvania.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds amazing.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, it was it was actually it was actually pretty nice for the time being.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was such a consistent.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So she was pregnant doing meth?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm not even gonna try and guess.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think it would do anybody any good, you know.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a weird one.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: People ask me that a lot, and I I I just choose not to answer that, you know.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have no clue.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the meth took off then.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: It took off.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I only say I like it was so good because like I know I have to remind myself that I'm going to love it for a long time if I ever decide to to to just fuck my life up again.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm gonna love it for a while, and then it's gonna get horrible, you know?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I like I don't I don't ever lie to myself about it because like like I know like if I would ever relapse again, I'm gonna enjoy it for about four to six months before everything crashes and burns.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, bro, I think that's being generous.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Being very generous.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I could it could go on for another four more years, like it did the pat the last time.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or you could die.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or go to prison.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of variables in that equation, brother.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, trust me, I've been there.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Los Angeles is not Hamburg, Pennsylvania.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: I remember my my when I when I had some time and I relapsed, it was just gonna be for the weekend.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: It turned into eight years and another prison term.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I I always said I was the one once I came and lived here, I was really happy.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I got high in in small town Hamburg in uh LA.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot more users here.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if I found a group of people that used the way I did, I I it would have it would have gotten really bad.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily in Hamburg, Pennsylvania, there's only like fucking 200 people who use drugs in the whole town.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: You come over here, there's probably like two million.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot, quite a bit.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, quite a bit.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I got high here for a while, like especially when I was younger, I it would have been so much worse.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm really grateful I'm from out there and dealt with that in the beginning.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what ended up happening?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I got a job.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got a really good job.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was working at FedEx, making$22 an hour, but the minimum wage in Pennsylvania was seven, is still seven dollars and twenty-five cents.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I'm making almost twenty dollars more than the minimum wage.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's almost like making thirty some here, right?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was good.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was able to uh uh I was able to afford an apartment eventually, you know.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um actually I gotta take a step back before that happened.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh the the girl who was pregnant, the my girlfriend at the time, it was a very complicated pregnancy.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is where it gets really weird.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I I almost skip past this.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was very complicated.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um she was bleeding all the time, so we had to go to the doctor all the time, but like at this point, we're we're two tweaked out little weirdos, like trying to figure out how a how do you like doctors and and ob gyns and and just the whole thing, you know?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I was constantly calling out of work to like go and take her to the hospital, so we only had one car at the time.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was still working.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: The doctors were telling us it was good, you know, even though she like she had these thyroid issues or whatever.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you try telling a 19-year-old that, dude, I have no clue.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: So for as confusing as it was, it was still working out, you know?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I started I started using meth every day, but I'm able to kind of chill out when it gets too much, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can put it down uh during the week and kind of like eat a little bit, drink some water, get myself stable again, keep working, you know.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also it was FedEx in the middle of the night, so like it's they didn't really care what you were doing.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: They like they were they're oh, it was COVID too.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they they were just happy that you were even showing up, you know.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember they saw me uh in a complete sweat in the middle of winter, and then they decided to move me into the back of the truck.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: They say they just moved me into the very back of the warehouse and they said, Alright, your job is to just unload this trailer and that's it.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, that's cool, I could do that.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a it was a great job for a tweaker, dude.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they just like it.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: They just gave me a uh a trailer to unload and that was it.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Nice for 10 hours straight, yeah.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but eventually, eventually her water broke early, right?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of the the beginning of the end of it all.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um take her to the hospital, same situation, like we're both super confused, she's bleeding a whole lot.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've kind of been tweaking for a little bit at this point, so I have like no idea what's going on.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um But eventually she gives birth to him, but then he but then he passes right away.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like like he like they did the they had a heartbeat on him, right?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like they were able to kind of monitor everything that was going on inside.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't exactly like his stillborn, like I don't know what the the different classification of it is, but essentially the second that she gave birth he passed away, right?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that that fucked us up for for I don't know, probably forever, to be honest with you.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Did he have a name?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude, they gave us uh they gave us a like a birth certificate slash death death certificate.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like one and the same.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um Malcolm.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Malcolm, yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's one.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I still feel weird about it because it affected the the next four years of my life, you know.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um it put my life in perspective and then in what way?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I I I was doing what I thought was the right thing by dropping out of school, getting a job, trying to save money up for an apartment, because we're actually still living at at her mom's house at that at that time, right?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Her or in the the trailer in Auburn, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like I thought I was doing the right thing, you know.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I was doing meth, I didn't really consider it bad.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I really justified my actions in saying, Oh, well, well, my dad drank beer his whole whole life, so I'm gonna do meth, you know?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought I thought that was a perfectly fine trade-off, you know.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but after he passed, this whole sense of like what's right and wrong just completely left my mind, you know, because I I thought we did everything right, you know.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it still turned out like shit.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it went horrible, you know.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then like that's why like he asked me the question, like, was she using it all during the pregnancy?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even want to like I'm not gonna drive myself insane trying to figure that out, you know.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just no point, you know.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um just kind of torn up that the that it happened, yeah.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like well, it's a tragedy.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: I tried talking to God a little bit about it, trying to figure out like what was what like what was the point of that, you know?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why did I have to drop out of school?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I have to start start doing meth because of this?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because like after we lost the baby, we we went on a bender.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like we I spent all the money I had in my bank account for uh hotels and trips and uh not just hotels, honestly.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: We just went hotel hopping across New York, Pennsylvania, Jersey, Oklahoma.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like we just we just started driving around everywhere, just buying as much as I'm escape, not even trying to heal, dude.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I was I was ready to just burn it all down, you know?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because this whole idea, like I I generally like I was really hurt by the fact that I tried doing the right thing for nothing, you know?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh, it doesn't matter if you do the right thing, it's it it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, you know?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I fought with that for a long time to like was there was there a point to any of it, you know?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because you had tried hard and failed.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: So what's the point of trying anymore?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: So now so do you think you developed this kind of mentality of I'm just gonna do what I want to do from here on out, whether it's right or wrong or indifferent?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I always kind of had that idea, you know.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but but when I was when I was using it was a different concept at that point, right?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always kind of did whatever I wanted because like I I had good enough grades and I was just nice enough to people sometimes, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: To where it wasn't an issue, but once the drugs took over, then it was all that everything went out the window, right?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was extremely rude to my parents, all my friends left me because I was just just this weird, mixed-up junkie, right?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then everybody left.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just absolutely everybody left.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not it's and it the only person I have to blame was was myself, you know.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because looking back, like I was just I was just a dickhead to people.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember I tried showing up for a Christmas one time after that had all happened.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I could only stay for like 10 minutes.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was so weird, like everybody was staring at me, I was all tweaked out, and I just had to leave, you know.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent the rest of the Christmas at a McDonald's parking lot just ripping through stuff, you know, just over and over and over again.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was probably like one of the worst days in the world, like just thinking about how I can't even be around my family, can't even have a kid right, I can't I can't even go through school right, you know.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of seemed like I was fucking everything up at this point, and that there was nothing that was gonna fix it.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like there was there was nothing there for me.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: This there's nothing in this world that's even available anymore.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: These scars that you were developing over the course of your life were starting to dominate you in a way.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: I started looking for people to blame, you know.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I start I started blaming my dad for being too hard on me when I was growing up.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: But now I love but like now I really appreciate it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, of course.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then I I blame my mom for just being uh being like a helicopter mom and being too close.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's all I want.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like it didn't matter what it was, like I was just finding something else to blame that wasn't me, you know.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that's kind of normal, bro, because you know, when you start getting into that mentality of like I can't do anything right, you know, it doesn't you don't want to take accountability for that on some level.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: You need to look for a scapegoat.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because I did the exact same thing, you know, my dad abandoning me, my stepfather, like same exact bro, being too hard on me, um, my mom, you know, all these different entities, people, situations, and that just progressed as I got older.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: When I started going to jail, it was Los Angeles Police Department, California Department of Corrections' fault, you know.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I couldn't ever take accountability.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I could never own up to my own my own actions.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was the one that put myself in all of these situations.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And all these other people tried to do was help me, right?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then left to my own devices, I always chose or didn't choose, didn't have a power of choice, drugs and alcohol.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that was I remember I don't know if you can relate to this, but it took me a long time to reconcile the consequences of my actions with my actions.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: It it can't it came around eventually.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it but it has to, otherwise you wouldn't be sober here today.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's my that's my opinion.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because we have to put those that equation together.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because for a long time, it's it's their fault, it's his fault.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if if she hadn't done this, you know, even when the cops pull behind you and you know you're going back to prison, it's like, damn, if I hadn't a fucking, if she hadn't like if I like the last time I went to prison, I was driving somebody somewhere.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like if she hadn't a fucking needed to go over here, like I wouldn't have got pulled over.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Never mind that I'm abscouting from parole, like my parole officers looking for me.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're looking for me for a fucking burglary that I did.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking, you know what I mean?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: Never mind all that.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's her fault because she needed to go to fucking IKEA or whatever the fuck.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: So shit gets bad.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: What at what point do you come off to California?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: After I moved to Jersey, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I Oh, I s I I started doing fentanyl then.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I actually do need to talk about this a little bit.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about that.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um So after I got really tweaked off on meth, dude, I tweaked out in Philly.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: I started running around.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, I was running around at like until four in the morning.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we we had this this different bat, like I don't know.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I hate with like all these guys to like tell me they're like, oh, you don't know about like the real meth.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, shut up, dude, you know.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: But there's one time where I think I had it, and it was the night that I tweaked out in Philly.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I ended up calling my dad in in the worst bit of psychosa that has ever hit, or the first time it actually hit, you know.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and after that point, I kind of scared myself enough to to put it down, you know.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I was gonna be able to just smoke and drink and get back to normal life.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so found a job in Reading, Pennsylvania.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then one of the one of the dudes I worked with was doing pills, and I was like, oh, I could I could do a pill.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's no big deal.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, a pill is not meth.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, we're good, you know what I mean?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm still justifying it that like I don't even know what this is.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was a little blue pill.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, blue pill.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: They were crushing up and snorting them.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then they just smoke on top of it, and you would just get really fried, you know?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what that's what I did.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we did for a while.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: While you know, and I'm always gonna remember the the the day I got sick, like you know, like like I was talking about earlier, those little moments where you know, like either someone says something to you, or you're like like you're like, oh, this is way too much right now.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: We had a really heavy weekend, we had a great week of work, like it was in sales, right?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we we we crushed it, you know.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the weekend we just partied really fucking hard.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: We got way too many pills, just did as much as possible, and then Monday came around and I was sick.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was a weird kind of sick, like like a like a 20, 21-year-old um, like hangover sick, you know what I mean?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like there there was there's no good way, yeah.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no way to describe it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, didn't want to get out of bed, kinda depressed.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is weird, right?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember I I had saved it, I had saved one just in case.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I like I crushed up, snorted real quick.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh me and my friend, we hop in the car, we start going to work, and it was silent.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were we were just silent the whole way there.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I and and and I turned to him and I said, Hey, you feel like shit, like you feel like shit this morning?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, me too.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did you do another one this morning too?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we were just silent the rest of the way until we got to work because that was the first time like because it because I felt better, right?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was, yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so like the whole ride, I was like, Oh, this is really bad.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I like I knew what it was, you know.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: They they called them perks over there.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um But they're not blues or yeah, like the crushed fentanyl it's pressed fentanyl, that's all it is.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, um, but like that's when I dude, it was like the same thing with Meth.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: I had that feeling like like I knew it, I just didn't care enough to like try and fix it.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, it'll be fine, whatever.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like I thought I was invincible, you know.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then this started a really, really expensive habit.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, dude, those blues were just way too expensive.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: How much were they out there?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like 20, 30 bucks a pill?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, literally, 20 or 30, you know.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you might be able to uh like you might be able to get them in bulk for a decent price, but if you were using like that, it it's not, you know what I mean?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's expensive.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I dude, I was not a smart drug addict, you know.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like apparently everybody else, I was not smart.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't either, bro.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just burned through everything, you know.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, no, the the those stupid pills brought me down.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: They did.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was horrible.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I'd lost the I had lost the apartment and the friends I had made again, right?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I collapsed on the meth, rebuilt my life up, had a car again, was working, and then lost it all again, right?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was weird.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know like we were sitting in the car one day, and somebody was like, Hey, you know these pills are fentanyl, right?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody went silent, dude.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was like like you hear a pin drop in a car, like it was crazy.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I was the first person to pipe up.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: I like looked at everybody and I was like, nah, like it's fine.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, like so-and-so, like would never do that to us, you know?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like I would like I just wanted everybody else to be fine with it, you know.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew it was bad, but like I just didn't care, you know.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then we were hooked, dude.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: We were we were so stuck after that, you know.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I become homeless, I I start bouncing around between girlfriend's mom's house, my parents' house, a Kate, like only when I would say I was gonna get clean, but that would I would only end up staying there for like a week.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: They like they they would never see me, you know.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up going to rehab.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I actually stayed the full 30 days because I had I like like I said, I'd lost everything.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: How did you hear about rehab?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: How did you know about rehab?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh through my par uh through my parents.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or or actually maybe maybe the the girlfriend I had at the time.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe maybe it was her.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember the first place I went to, she said I'd I just had to go to this place, give them two hundred dollars, and then that was it.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was a giant brick building, just hallways full of uh full of bed, like it was just giant hallways, and then there was like two, three people in a room, sometimes four, and that was it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: They had one little group room, ping pong table, and that was it, right?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: I quit I quickly left that place because I was there for math and I was like, nah, I gotta figure it out.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm not like you guys.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I left.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was exactly like them.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was just 19, you know.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the next one I went to uh was in Pennsylvania.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: I actually completed the 30-day stay for once.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then they were talking about sober livings and stuff because I was so excited.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time I stayed through a rehab.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was only been to two of them or three of them at this point, right?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because the first two I took off, so I stayed the full 30 days.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I called my parents and they were like, You're not you're not coming back here.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What do you mean I'm not coming back here?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've actually got 30 days sober right now.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what's the issue?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I was I was actually really pissed off by that.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, but like I wasn't taking into consideration the f the the years of just abuse towards them, you know, like like I had ruined everything, you know.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the facility starts talking about sober livings for me and everything, and I was like, eh, I don't want to, but if I have no other choice, I guess I will, you know.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um they wanted to put me in a spot in like Lehigh Valley or or Lehigh out in Pennsylvania, and I was like, nah, if I'm gonna do anything, I felt like moving to Jersey for some reason.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I found a random spot out there, and then just random sober living or just a random spot?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just a random sober living in New Jersey.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just a random place, and it was it was like the IOP and sober living mix thing, you know.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was just a really weird situation.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I had been put on Suboxing at this point, uh, which I have my own feelings about.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you care if I talk about that?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Suboxing at all?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I I hate Suboxing.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: The first time I was put on, it was from that rehab in um Pennsylvania.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: They sat us down in a room, right?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was like I'm always gonna remember it.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was the girl, it was me, and it was somebody else, right?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Alright, sit statistically, if you don't take one of these three options, you have like this percentage of relapsing.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What the fuck?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, it's crazy, but okay.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: The options were methadone, suboxin, or vivitrol, right?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: They said vivitrol was for drinking, so I was like, Alright, I don't really need that.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then so it was up to methadone or suboxin, you're right, and I don't they just tell you a bunch of random scientific stuff about it, and like it makes no sense, you know?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I called my dad because like I like like he's who who I went to for like questions about anything, you know, and he and he looks at me and he goes, Methadone is for when you don't have enough money for dope.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Suboxin, I have no idea what that is.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Invivitrol stops you from drinking.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, okay, like so methadone sounds horrible.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like I'm not gonna do that, but it sounds like I can get away with this Suboxin stuff, so I sh I should be alright, you know.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: But eventually, when the Suboxen kind of got bored, like boring, like like nothing was really happening on it anymore.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: I tried just stop taking it, you know.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I finished my my next 30 days, and then I got sick as fuck for like nine days, dude.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was the dumbest thing in the world.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't I didn't really understand what I was getting into at all, right?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: And like they literally sat us down in a room and they were like, Yeah, you're like you're probably gonna relapse if you don't take one of these three things, you know?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what they're giving you is a synthetic opiate.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's all it is.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's stupid.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really, really it's really dumb, you know?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because like then I was doing this weird back and forth thing with Suboxin for a while where like I would take it, I wouldn't take it, like I tried getting off it, but it wouldn't work.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like all it was doing was just not ever really being so you know what I mean?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was never really sober.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was it was so weird.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it's I hate I hate this stuff.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I really do, you know, because like eventually eventually for me it just wasn't enough anymore.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it it like I I would like itch for it, you know?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wouldn't work.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: So like I just said fuck it.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go do I'm just gonna do just gonna go do what I've already been doing, you know.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the sober living in Jersey.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um get all tweaked out one night, cops come, I get kicked out.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I tried ju like juking the cop out and just get leveled by the guy as they were taking me out of the house.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, he was a big guy, and I thought I was gonna be able to just run off, you know, and I was like, I'll get my stuff later, it's not a big deal.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: But no, dude, he he cracked my vertebrae actually.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the hospital after.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: This this is a whole nother weird story, too.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: You got a lot of weird stories.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're just weird.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're like they're nothing ever too exciting, but they're just super weird.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're exciting to from the outside.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, bro.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it I have a love-hate relationship sometimes because like like after like you think about it for like all those years, you're like, damn, I'm just a a bum, you know what I mean?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like it's weird.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can have the days where I laugh about it, but like for the most part, I'm like, damn, I wasted a lot of time, you know?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wasted a lot of time and then spent a lot of time away from family.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: I still haven't reconnected with most of my friends back home.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I live in California now, so it's different, right?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's really weird.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: After I got kicked out of that store living in Jersey, dude, they 5150'd me.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time that's ever happened.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because they thought like I was gonna try and climb out the window.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like the cops came into the room, so I threw the window open and I was gonna jump out the back of it, but the dude like grabbed me by the waist.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they thought I was trying to kill myself, you know?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, nah, I was like, nah, I just overdosed.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was so dumb.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I wake up.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually funny.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, wait, back up.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you OD'd?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's is that why the cops were there?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this was this was like another Well Butrin thing.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this happened twice.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I did not know that.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just never told anybody that.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: So for context, my boy here likes to snort Well Butrin and go into a psychosis, which I was very much a part of the second story, but I was not privy to the knowledge that this had happened prior before, which I'm just finding out now, which is hilarious.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now we can laugh about it, but at the time it was fucking gnarly.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: So so you've done this before.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: A jump out of a window.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is sounding very similar.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was the same thing.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the same thing.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was the same thing.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: Did you break a leg?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, not vertebrae this time.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he could yeah, because both times something broke.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's fucking awesome.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: It I didn't need anything.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: He said I just cracked it because when I was like waking up in the hospital, um uh the doctor was like, Yeah, you you just cracked a vertebrae.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was freaking out.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, dude, I cracked it.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, is that like I kind of felt like Mike Tyson where he's like, I broke my back.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like because you know you can't breathe when you break something around there, you know?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't a big deal, it just was a slight little Yeah.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: So now it makes sense why they 5150'd you, bro.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a mystery.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: We don't need Sherlock Holmes to figure that out.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, it's 5150, so 72-hour hold.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was still gonna justify that for a minute.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna figure out.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not buying that shit for a minute.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, 72-hour hold.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they put me in.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, so I'm waking up, they give me volume to kind of settle down a little bit.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't have clothes on, you know.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have the the I have the the the hospital gown on.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: Dude.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna tell the second story in a minute, but oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's it's it's so good.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a mirror image.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you're telling me the story I was a part of.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's why this was in Jersey.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's fucking maintaining.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I never told anybody because I didn't.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: Doing well butcher, bro.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: I did it twice.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: For some reason, you just want to take your clothes off and do weird stuff.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, dude.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just snort a bunch of shit and get really weird.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's cool, man.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm not judging you, though.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not judging.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: That like that's why that's why I didn't tell anybody about the first one either.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right, because you feel like super stupid, right?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, well, so by the way, this kind of happened already in Jersey.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, literally this exact same thing.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably like a year apart.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like a year apart from each other, actually.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: Was it that recent?
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, recently enough because yeah, it had to have been.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't too far after that that you came out to California.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was almost right after that.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I wake up in the hospital, they put me in the hold.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have the nightgown on.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, it was so funny.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, the nurse got me, dude.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: She was so nice.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, Oh, yeah, we just need this room, whatever.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're having a great conversation.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, besides from the fact that, like, you know how the gown is open in the back, you're like your whole ass out.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm walking through the hospital and I'm like pinching it closed.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it was super weird.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she leads me down into this room, and she's like, All right, or into this other hallway, and she's like, Alright, um, you can just go in through these these doors or whatever, somebody will be there to show you to your room.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Okay, cool.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, excuse me.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: The first door opens, I walk through it, it shuts behind me, and then another door opens in front of me, right?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, wow, that's a lot of security right here.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's kind of weird.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was kind of waiting for her to follow me in, but she didn't.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm kind of looking around and I'm like, okay, cool.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Walk through the next door, and then I'm just standing there.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a long hallway with a big room in front of you, like it's got the projector up on the thing, you know, a bunch of little tables or whatever, and I'm like slowly putting it together, you know.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hey, so is anybody gonna show me to my room right now?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or like it was really weird.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: So then I find the little med window, I look at the nurse in there, and I'm like, hey, what's what's going on?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's like, or I said to her, I'm like, shouldn't like I be going to a room, or she's like, Oh yeah, like your your room's gonna be all the way down the hall.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I walk over to it, and it's an upside-down orange tub, so it's like screwed into the ground, you know, like it's just a plastic bin that's been flipped upside down, and they screwed it into the floor.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, I know exactly what it was.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was able to kind of peep some of the people around me.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: There were obviously some of them had very clear mental issues, others uh others had drug issues like me or whatever, whatever whatever it is, yeah.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I go up to the front and I'm freaking out now because I figured it out.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, I'm actually in like a fucking insane asylum right now.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm freaking out, right?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's one person screaming over in the corner, they have a fucking playroom, you know, and I'm like really worried.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: And also I'm butt naked in this thing, too.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like my ass is still out, you know.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really scared now, you know?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I go up to the nurse again and I'm like, hey, like, where am I?
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, like, why am I here?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, hey, can I can I just leave?
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're still in the hospital.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: I should be able to just leave, right?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, no.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, Oh, they like didn't you try and like didn't you try and kill yourself?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, I was just getting high.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What where's this coming from?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, You tried jumping out a window, and I was like, Yeah, to run away.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this was this was very thought out, thank you, you know.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so I'm stuck there for the next 72 hours.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: How high was this window?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Just one story, like it it, you know, uh townhouse, one story.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't, yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't like off the 12th story or something like that.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was literally like probably like 10 feet up.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it wasn't, yeah.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were fucking with you for sure.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, dude, yeah, I mean, like, I think I was naked, so like it, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: It looks a little strange from the outside perspective.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know it made perfect sense to you.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, it did at the time.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it always does.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: I had a whole plan in my mind.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I seen the cop lights on, I was gonna throw the window open, run across the little little roof on the on the on the patio, and then just take off.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I got speared, dude.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: I got spear.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there I am.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm stuck in the hospital for 72 hours, you know.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to find a way to uh get clothes.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, like the server, they're not gonna bring me anything.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not, you know.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm literally in the hospital gown with nothing for like a day or a day and a half.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Who brought you stuff?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mom and dad?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh first one of the one of the the girls that were there came up to me and was like, Oh, you do drugs, right?
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, you know, she gave me like her boyfriend's pair of pants or something, just something to throw on.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would I was like, Thank you.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because like, dude, literally, you know, you know the material I'm talking about.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's that like you could rip it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's I've been in one before.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a stupid green jump shoot, like a uh, I don't even know.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like I eventually I call my mom.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: I told her I had a bad reaction to some medication or whatever.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say so they bad reaction.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: So and they ended up putting me into this special hallway for people, you know.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do you think your mom's an idiot, bro?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's not dumb.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh yeah, no, no, she figured it out real quick.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: Of course she did as soon as she got there.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I said, dude, I love my mom so much.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like she, as as fucked up as I was, like, she, you know, she'd always came through, right?
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like when it was serious, you know, like like if I'd ask her for like$20 or whatever, she'd she'd tell me to fuck off.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, No, I can't, right?
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I was like stuck in a hospital and I was like, look, I I am naked right now.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like she she would come through for that, and for that I'm I'm always grateful for her, you know, like that, yeah.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you get out of there eventually.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: I started smoking crack in there.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sweet.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the other girl who asked me if I did drugs, she was like 60, mind you, you know what I mean?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, teeth missing, everything.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Her boyfriend was able to sneak her in, a fucking pipe and a few rocks, and a lighter.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started smoking crack.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, if I'm gonna be here for 72 hours, might as well make it worth it.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, just did that for a while.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then eventually I told my mom I was gonna get it figured out.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, thank you for the clothes, but I can just figure it out, you know.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I started staying, like I stayed with that girl and her boyfriend for a while.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Her boyfriend told the hospital that um he was my uncle and I was gonna live with them, you know, and it was all good.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it wasn't.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: I started doing what I thought was heroin out there.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like in my mind, if those little blue pills were fentanyl and fentanyl was worse, well then heroin was just gonna be fine, you know.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um the only thing is there's no there's not really any heroin left.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was just fentanyl.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember the first few bags that I did it, I I was it felt like just getting kicked in the face, you know what I mean?
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were just so high, like there's there's no way to describe it.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like this weird tweaky feeling, but it's a down like it's but it's a downer at the same time.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's there's no good way.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that was like a really disgusting drug to me, you know.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: They were trying to say it was heroin, but it it it it wasn't, you know.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was just cheap as fuck, you know, and you could buy a lot of it, and you know that led into me sleeping on the beach in Jersey.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: My my phone was turned off, I had no I had absolutely nothing.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was stealing whatever food I can from the Dollar Generals and the Walmart's that are around the gas stations, you know.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because that couple was weird, they tweaked and they tweaked fucking hard, you know what I mean?
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I'm not doing this.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um but to the day the the the the night that I decided to to to call to come over to LA, um we had just picked up again.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna shoot up with them.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had smoked a little bit of weed beforehand, and it was like the absolute worst and most disgusting situation ever.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, like they couldn't find a needle.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the girl is crawling on her hands and knees, getting underneath the bed to find it.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: She finally finds one, and then for some reason the guy looks at me and he's like, Ugh, I have a hard time getting my neck, so like she just does it for me, and I'm like, okay.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I was like, wow, I don't know why you're telling me that, but okay, you know?
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm watching her just go and go because it's dull as fuck, you know what I mean?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's trying to get it through the skin, it's not going.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually it pops through, she misses, does it again pops through and misses.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: And at this point, he's just bleeding down his fucking neck.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just staring at this whole thing.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: And dude, I'm I'm disgusted.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm the perfect amount of fried off the weed to kind of give me some clarity about what the fuck's going on, I guess, you know.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was disgusting.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: By all intents and purposes, you know.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, I'm living with this couple who are 60 years old, shooting up in their neck.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: This guy is literally just dumping blood out of his fucking neck.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is horrible.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I was a varsity athlete with it with a great family, with a great fucking family.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like now, it's this.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that had just put my whole life in perspective so much because like I was gonna do it with them, but after that, I was like, I was like, no, I'm I'm good.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it was just the the worst situation imaginable, you know.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: And plus I knew the guy had fucking uh like hep C or whatever too, you know?
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like I thought it was supposed to be like nice and easy, like no, that looks absolutely disgusting.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was the morning after I connected my phone to the to the library hotspot and then and then found you guys.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I used the TextNow app or whatever, and that was it.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so you hit up Lux Recovery.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I I hit up anybody.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know that was a thing.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: The guy at this one of the guys at the sober living told me that you could just do that.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I didn't know.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I didn't know that was possible.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I tried it, you know.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, dude, fuck it, any like anything's better than this, you know.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm I'm stuck, I'm homeless, and like the shit sucks right now.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was also smoking a lot of crack, so like whatever money I had was gone within an hour.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't matter.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I I was working for a short time.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: That paycheck was gone the first day I got it.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it didn't I just had been completely burnt out, you know?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was horrible.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you come out to California and refresh my memory.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_02: Did you complete the first time?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: And go to outpatient?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was yeah, I was I was I was the first person in outpatient.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: You were one of them, huh?
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I did I had I had nowhere else to go.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I was at that point, like I was as ready as I thought I was, you know.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just not, I don't know, like it was just weird, you know.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like once I s once I got some food in me, once I got healthy again, like, then I was like, oh, I could probably do this again, you know what I mean?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I bet I could like figure it out, you know.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, and plus, you know, like one of the dudes I had gotten closer to, dude, he was working a job.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: We left eventually, and then I was able to just milk his money fucking too.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, Yeah, just keep buying shit, it'll be alright.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna work any day now.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: That never happened.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're just playing Xbox.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember that.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually you came back.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it wasn't too long, yeah.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, oh, this is getting kind of this dude's getting kind of weird now.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: He was weird, yeah.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but I I I fully did it to myself though, dude.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, of course, that I mean change the record, bro.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: We do it to ourselves every single time.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_02: Every single time.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, you so you come back to treatment again, and then you complete the 30 days, and then so there's two stories that I think are relevant.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_02: The first one is the Well Butrin story, which I thought was the first time.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was not the first time.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, I figured that out.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_02: You heard it here, folks.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: So he's habitual Well Butrin sniffer.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I get chills when I see him uh at work traumatized.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: I get a little warm.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because like, dude, like it's such a distinct, like it has such a smell to it.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's gross, bro.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Disgusting.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's fucking disgusting.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: You just you deserve to be here.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_02: You definitely burned your seat right there.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never I'll never forget.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we started this, we opened our outpatient, and um I had moved out of where I was living to manage um the first sober living that we had, and Harold was a resident there, and I remember uh I'll I'll never forget this story because it not only traumatized you, it traumatized me.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because I get this phone call from another resident, and he says, Hey, um I don't really know what to do right now, but Harold's acting kind of funny, and I was like, Okay, you know, I've at this point I've known Harold for a little while now, and I'm like, Well, what do you mean by funny?
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, Well, he's naked in the living room with a kitchen knife, right?
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay, I'm on my way.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember any of this, to be honest.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't remember.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I remember all of it.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I get there, and now at this point, all of the residents have come outside because they're terrified.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Has anybody called the authorities?
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh they hadn't, so they proceeded to do that.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to go clear the house.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I went to go look for you.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like a scene from a horror movie.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even I'm not even kidding.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I walk in and I'm yelling your name, no response, but I hear the shower on in one of the bathrooms with the door was closed.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I open the door, and just imagine it's it's literally from a scene from a horror movie.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's it's the hot water, so it's steamy, right?
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And there's enough of the shower curtain drawn that a body could be behind it, and I thought he was behind it.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm looking around the room, there is blood everywhere, everywhere.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: It looked like yeah, you still got the scar.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he almost chopped his finger off.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll get to that in a second.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_02: But he severed almost like an artery tendon in his finger.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_02: The the tendon.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: The tendon, and it bled everywhere, but we don't know that yet.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just looking for this naked individual, and there's blood everywhere.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm like scared to go to the shower, and I'm yelling, Harold, Harold, Harold, and like I do this kung fu move with the you know, moving the shower curtain, but ready to like ready to see if he's gonna pounce at me with the with the knife, and you weren't there, and then there was a long bloody handprint all along the wall going down.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, long story short, uh you weren't in the house.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_02: You escaped.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think you jumped out of a window.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do I can I could tell you the only thing I remember is jumping down off a fence.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I jumped down off a fence and broke my ankle.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that happening.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That happened, but then I blacked out again, yeah.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next thing I remember doing is coming to at some d like like at some guy's house.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm walking around the backside of his fence, and then I make it all the way to the back, and then um I just collapse.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I tried going.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I like I I I knew I was on a mission to go that way.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just had to keep going.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's kind of crazy.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your body will like my body literally took over.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what was happening, but I knew I had to go that way.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I was just an autopilot, but like I remember it, you know?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just had to go.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: You got like three miles away.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now keep in mind this is in Hollywood.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_02: For those of you who don't know, Hollywood's a very densely populated area, and to get three miles naked is impressive.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because when the when the authorities finally did show up and we're giving them our statement and stuff, and and basically reporting a missing person almost at that point, um, during that process, they had you, they they found you three miles away, and they rushed you to the hospital because you had a broken ankle.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was good times.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't this time.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't this sobriety because you had one more, you had one more relapse in you.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember that one too.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Very well.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: That one.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_00: That one was w was pretty short.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was pretty short.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a one one-off.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was a one-timer.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was pretty sad.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I got back, I I I got reconnected with with the with the old girlfriend.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: She came out here.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I had no money.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I this had just healed up.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: This was all good again, right?
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to walk.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um But then somehow they like we ended up picking up from some random connect that we found just through, you know what I mean?
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I remember, dude, I f uh dude, I kinda I kinda fucked her over.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So she paid for it.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just snagged the drugs, fucking got high for the night, right, in that front room.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't I don't remember anything after that.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't Yeah.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I was coming home and I had something to do that day, that's why I was coming home to change.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't going to, that wasn't in my plan.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I got home around 7 30 or what have you in the morning, and I found you unresponsive.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: 7 30 in the morning is crazy, by the way.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you were cold, you were blue, and you were unresponsive.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you had blood coming out of your nose.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, we went into full-on, you know, save herald mode with the Narcan and the CPR and and everything else, and and uh mouth to mouth.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's our kissing story.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I still tell, I still tell people that.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_02: We made out a little bit.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't believe he was really unresponsive because I think I felt some tongue at one point.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden my hands just reach out.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, wait a minute.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the sandlot.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I was I was like, I was being okie doked.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: We can laugh about this now.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_02: This is three years ago, but it was scary, and I still think about it to this day.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh, but thank God we're able to bring you back.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember anything.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I just remember the night before.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um because 7 30 in the morning, like I I don't wake up for anything in the morning.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I have a very hard time waking up, right?
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it was the fact that I was either still getting high or or something.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember kind of getting into the ambulance or whatever.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I remember like there was two people on either side of me, like, but then that was it.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like Yeah, we were able to bring you back in the room before the ambulance got there.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I was on I was on 911 and I was doing CPR, I was doing compressions and mouth to mouth after we administered, I think, two or three shots of Narcan, and you came back.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you and and as soon as we came back, the ambi the emergency first responders got there.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude, it was it was it was I fucking hated it.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I wake up and I'm soaking wet, dude.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was soaking wet.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_02: But that was the time.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh-huh.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And now here we are.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_00: That that was it.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um that one hurt the most.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I had overdosed before in Jersey.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um cops had woken me up on on a sidewalk once.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'd overdosed in the back of a car in the middle of a heat wave in Jersey as well.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_00: But but this one um this one was different because it it like this proved to me that dru like drugs aren't working anymore.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_00: That that like hurt.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that hurt more than like any break like breakup for me at that time, right?
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like that hurt the most because like like dude, my my solution forever is not working anymore.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, the fuck am I supposed to do?
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I didn't want to be sober because getting sober sucked, right?
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: But now every time I do drugs, something fucking horrible is happening, you know what I mean?
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, w I've done drugs, only drugs for the past four years.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had chosen drugs over my like all my family and all my friends, like everything, you know.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had I had liked drugs that much.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing I enjoyed, you know.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Before it was before that, it was sports and hunting and fishing, but but now it was only drugs, right?
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that was it.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, dude, it was it was such a bad comment.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, dude.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was heartbreaking, you know.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was probably a defining moment for you.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Can you pinpoint the moment you realize I can't keep living this way?
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I had a few moments like that.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You like when I called and I seen that person digging underneath their bed for for that for that dirty needle, you know, like like that's dude, that would that was for me where I was like, alright, like, because they they kept saying to themselves, oh, we're gonna get this figured out any day now.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember looking at them like, dude, you're fucking 60, you're not getting this ever.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then I looked at myself and I was like, oh damn.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying the same thing right now, that any day now this is gonna get better, you know?
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't, like, and especially seeing that the dude, like it's such a clear vision in my mind, like watching her miss and miss and miss, and like, like, it was just gnarly, and then the way like the whole thing was just fucking disgusting, and I was like, Yeah, I I can't I can't do this anymore.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not even that good, you know what I mean?
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like it wasn't like and like all it was making me do was either either fall out in random places because the fentanyl was just fucking too much for me, or I'm just getting high and then sleeping on a beach.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just it wasn't it was horrible.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_02: So after that, you have this defining moment the worst overdose up to this point.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_02: What changes?
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was mostly a lot of under the surface stuff, right?
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I really had to start taking some sort of a program seriously.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, for me it's A N A C It's all kind of the same for me, you know?
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because I I've done it all, you know what I mean?
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've done them all, so like I don't really care what it is, what kind of a meeting, but I then had to start practicing something.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had to start showing up for something.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know what stuck with me?
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I looked at you one day and I said, like, dude, I have fucking no responsibility.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_00: What am I like how am I supposed like I I forget what I said exactly, but I remember I said I had no responsibility to anything right now.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you said to me, like, all I had to worry about was groups, meetings, and then something that like like you only said like one or two things, right?
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're like eventually you'll get more and more and more.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you were actually fucking right.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then that literally was the only thing I had.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I had was groups, and I might like dude.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I remember in the beginning, I was not a very nice person, like it like in those groups, but I still showed up for them, you know, like because like I had to start I had to start believing in something, you know.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it was that, and then it did expand eventually, right?
• 1:21:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's safe to say your mind kind of opened a little bit.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I had dude, it it had to.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I was heartbroken when I started overdosing every time I touched something, you know?
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because like like my like my time was up, you know what I mean?
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just gonna be the very next time something happened, you know?
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I it was it was not gonna be very good.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna be fucked forever.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I I had to become willing and open to to just do anything different, you know?
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_02: In your opinion, like what was the most heartbreaking thing that you had to let go of when you chose or started to choose recovery?
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_00: See, I was I was I was pretty ready after that.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was pretty set.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like losing the drugs for me kind of felt like like I was losing like uh like who I was, you know.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had only been doing drugs and I was obsessed with them for so long that that that was that was heartbreaking, losing that, you know.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I really didn't I had nothing, you know.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know if you remember, I came in with with one book bag.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I still had like I still have the it's a Nike Elite basketball bag.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I still have it.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_00: That was the only bag I had at that time, you know.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I had.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it really I I wasn't I didn't have much to lose anymore, except for that one bag.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was it.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Better not lose that bag.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I still have it, yeah.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I have everything from those first like the from that first year that I got, you know.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I still have everything, yeah.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want to get rid of any of it, yeah.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what has recovery given you the addiction never could?
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Mm.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean family and friends again.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's my biggest thing.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um community.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm huge on on community right now.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just having a group of people that you can fall back on for anything, right?
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um do the it gave my it gave me my family back a little bit, you know.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's kind of it's a little difficult having a relationship 2,000 miles away, you know.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, like I could do a little bit better of calling them.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I call my mom pretty consistently because she because she likes it, you know.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's a big talker, she likes to do that.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um, as far as uh my dad and my sister goes, we're we're we're still working on it, you know.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's better than what it used to be.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so much better.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if this is all I get for the rest of my life, it's just a couple calls and texts here and there, like obviously I want more, but I can be happy with that, you know.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what does scars and all mean to you?
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like the title of this podcast.
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just stuff that you're you're you're always gonna remember, you know.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, like if I could take this off, I have a big scar all the all the way down the inside of my arm from from that night, uh um which night?
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_02: The Will Beauty night?
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's two of them.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: The second one.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, from the second one, yeah.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I also have I have another hole, it's just a it's just a scar now on the inside part of my thigh.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So like I got a couple of these more in my finger, too.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, dude, every time, like I can't grab stuff right anymore, right?
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I I have all these like kind of physical reminders on me.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the mental ones are probably the worst, you know.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's some nights you're just kind of laying in bed, just remembering all of it, like all like seeing my mom cry, my sister in a fret, like my dad just fucking disappointed, you know.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then also I remember when some of my friends tried bringing up the fact that I had had a drug problem, uh, and I just wasn't hearing it.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, they look so disappointed.
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like dudes I've known since before middle school.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I've known these guys since we were like 12 or 13, maybe, you know.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And slowly, one by one, like it's the same like disappointed look that like I'll be trying to go to bed at night, and I just remember fucking these guys over, you know.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I used to have my stuff together, a couple of them moved in with me.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We lived together, like in my apartment when the when um when me and my girlfriend were pregnant at the time, right?
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like all that, and just seeing them just slowly lose faith in in me, you know.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that was probably the hard like the hardest thing is like having nobody have any faith in you ever, you know, and like watching it disappear, it's it's for me, it's it's it's crushing.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the worst feeling in the world.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's not the that's not the truth today.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's weird today.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_00: See, like today it's hard to believe though, you know.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_02: I believe it.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you told me you were gonna be here today at 9 30.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_02: I believed it.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_02: I believed it.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was a time where I'd be like, maybe I'll come pick you up.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I'm not sure you're gonna be here, let alone show up and on time.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there wasn't a doubt in my mind that you were gonna be here and you were gonna be on time.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, showing up not high to places that still gets me every once in a while, you know.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Showing up not high.
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I'm always gonna remember that Christmas where I got all tweaked out and like everybody was staring at me.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like you were a fucking goldfish in a bowl.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I lost so much weight, everyone's staring at you, so like like I'll remember that every once in a while.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just showing up places and not being fucked up is like I don't know.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's cool for like I like it.
• 1:27:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a good feeling, you know?
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because like, dude, there was a there was a moment I could not put anything down.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't, like, didn't matter how badly I wanted to not sniff something, I I I I literally couldn't do it.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had this fucking magnet to it, you know, to where like I just had to do it.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like, dude, like that were butrin well butrin shit is disgusting.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's by four, but like I loved it still.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Loved it.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't matter how like you couldn't breathe or how nasty it fucking tasted, still loved it.
• 1:27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_02: So now that you've been sober three years, would you say that you've been able to turn or at least to some degree these scars into assets and they're no longer liabilities that define you?
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have a completely different perspective on life.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of people assume I'm a lot older.
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's kind of weird, like I'm like I'm only 26 years old, you know, but be being homeless at 21 or 22, you know, just being stuck on drugs, like you really put your life your whole life in perspective, right?
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_00: You really start to kind of figure out what's really important, you know.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also, like AA helps a lot with that, right?
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you start learning a very mature vocabulary, you know what I mean?
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of that kind of helps as well.
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I really realize that like life is supposed to be enjoyable now.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is all good.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, dude, we were talking about, like, I just bought that motorcycle.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love that, you know what I mean?
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I never would have had these things.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just calling my mom and like calling some of the guys too, like, that to me is fucking great, you know?
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love that.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's the simplest things in the world, but I love it, you know.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, life is actually enjoyable today.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_00: You get to do things, right?
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of like people staring at you fucking crazy as I'm like tweaking all over the place.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's going from a completely ashamed of myself to being able to walk in public is is pretty nice.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I used to only walk uh walk around when I when it was dark out because I was too embarrassed of like people seeing me, you know.
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hadn't showered in days, haven't eaten days, and plus out on top of it, I'm tweaking, so like you just look crazy in general, all picked apart and stuff.
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like did a lot that did a lot to my self-image for a long time, and I still kind of I still fight with that, you know.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes I think I'm not I'm not big enough anymore, you know, like like yeah, just shit like that, random stuff.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's anyone out there watching this podcast, out there struggling and suffering, what words of advice would you have for them?
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_02: They're suffering in silence.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just give it man, just give it a try.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I don't know if you're anything like me.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_00: In in the very back of your mind, you have this idea that what you're doing is not right, you know.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And all all it all it really takes is just reaching out to somebody, you know.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's it.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just reaching out and just saying like you just need help, because like I would have been stuck in Jersey forever, you know.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had no plans of getting anything figured out until I made that phone call and and and then you guys were able to help me out, and then three years later, it actually worked, right?
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I hate when people try and bash some of the recovery programs and but they still keep fucking up, right?
• 1:31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, dude, this this has worked.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what if it if what if you actually try and this program works for you?
• 1:31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's you know, like nothing bad is gonna happen from like trying this different thing.
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Cause it took me a little, you know, obviously it took me a while to come around to this type of thing, but eventually it was worth it.
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I I've gotten everything back in the InSun.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's crazy, you know.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you're willing to reach out.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Harold, I want to thank you for coming out.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_02: You did an amazing job.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_02: I learned some things about you today that I haven't heard.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't wait to tell our friend group that that happened twice.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just kidding.
• 1:31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but no, man, thanks for coming out.
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have a special relationship, you and I, you know, um, because as as fucked up of an experience that was for you, overdosing, you know, um, on one hand, I'm I'm super, super stoked and happy and relieved that we were able to save you.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've been in that situation where people didn't make it, you know, and and it's traumatic either way, you know.
• 1:32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Just one has a happy ending and the other doesn't.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so glad you're here.
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you're still with us.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, thank you for coming out and getting vulnerable with us today, bro.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna conclude our episode today.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_02: But next week, stay tuned.
• 1:32:25
  SPEAKER_02: We got another special guest.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she's a really good friend of mine.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's an ex con, um, but she's now a program director and in college.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_02: She's gonna be an LMFT.
• 1:32:34
  SPEAKER_02: She's she's a badass.
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_02: So stay tuned for her, and thank you for listening.