Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / FULL TEARDOWN? Angels have intriguing trade chips if they decide to rebuild
Transcript
- 0:09Speaker 1: G Hey, Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo territory.
- 0:12Speaker 1: I'm Mike D. Giovanna, former La Times baseball writer and
- 0:15Speaker 1: host of the show, joined by my regular co host
- 0:17Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo, the former Angel slugger, and our regular ht
- 0:22Speaker 1: what do we call you? Sam? Corresponding contributor Guru Sam
- 0:27Speaker 1: All the above? All the above, de Welcome back, Sam,
- 0:31Speaker 1: glad to have you well. I don't know what's going
- 0:34Speaker 1: on baseball. See back in the day, as we like,
- 0:37Speaker 1: as we old folk like to say, it seemed like
- 0:39Speaker 1: we didn't even start talking about trades until first second
- 0:42Speaker 1: week of July. But we're almost seven weeks out of
- 0:45Speaker 1: the August third trade deadline, and speculation and rumors are
- 0:48Speaker 1: already beginning to swirl, and as you can imagine, a
- 0:52Speaker 1: lot of them are swirling around the Angels right now now.
- 0:56Speaker 1: The Angels are thirty and forty five going into their
- 0:58Speaker 1: weekend series against the Athletics, but they're only eight games
- 1:02Speaker 1: back in American League West, which leads me to our first. Oh,
- 1:07Speaker 1: there's only one team with a winning record, by the way,
- 1:10Speaker 1: Seattle Mariners thirty eight and thirty seven in that AL West.
- 1:14Speaker 1: What do you guys think their approach should be. And
- 1:17Speaker 1: I know we're still a few weeks away, but you know,
- 1:19Speaker 1: you got to start thinking about this thing right now. Sam.
- 1:22Speaker 2: The fun when you mentioned the eight games back, I don't.
- 1:25Speaker 2: I think that is the least relevant piece of information
- 1:28Speaker 2: I've ever heard. But the funny thing is I've been
- 1:29Speaker 2: around the I've been around the Angels long enough to
- 1:32Speaker 2: know that, like, they can justify just about anything at
- 1:34Speaker 2: any time if they try to. And so I've seen
- 1:37Speaker 2: them say, like, all the boys deserve a shot at
- 1:38Speaker 2: this when we're like below five hundred. But if you know,
- 1:41Speaker 2: the division is as bad as it is, if they
- 1:43Speaker 2: were to you know, they played a little bit better
- 1:44Speaker 2: the last few weeks, if they were to like be
- 1:46Speaker 2: eight games back at the end of July, Like, are
- 1:49Speaker 2: we going to see that justification rear?
- 1:50Speaker 3: It's ugly ahead again, I would certainly hope not.
- 1:53Speaker 2: If you ask me what I think they should do,
- 1:55Speaker 2: I think a full teardown is the only smart option here.
- 1:59Speaker 2: The Angels, you know, have essentially nothing to look forward
- 2:02Speaker 2: to as an organization right now. I mean, they have
- 2:04Speaker 2: a couple young pictures maybe in their farm system. Maybe
- 2:07Speaker 2: we'll you know, maybe at some point we'll we'll hit
- 2:11Speaker 2: you Wallber Your in is probably the first starting picture
- 2:13Speaker 2: I've seen this organization, you know, really develop in a
- 2:17Speaker 2: very long time. So in that sense, maybe there's something
- 2:22Speaker 2: there in the future you have to build around that.
- 2:24Speaker 3: You have to be able to. Their farm system when
- 2:25Speaker 3: it comes to their position players is extremely weak.
- 2:28Speaker 2: You know.
- 2:29Speaker 3: I just don't.
- 2:30Speaker 2: I just think that you need to trade the pieces
- 2:33Speaker 2: now that will build you a future, you know, in
- 2:36Speaker 2: the years to come, and that is something they've never done.
- 2:38Speaker 2: You look at the farm system, you look at the
- 2:40Speaker 2: trade deadlines.
- 2:41Speaker 3: Year after year.
- 2:42Speaker 2: They have consistently held on to players when they should
- 2:44Speaker 2: not have. They've had opportunities to actually put themselves, you know,
- 2:48Speaker 2: in position to compete by trading those players, and they
- 2:50Speaker 2: just haven't done it. So you actually have Redetmers, and
- 2:54Speaker 2: you have Jose Soreano and maybe even Joe Adele who
- 2:56Speaker 2: could really get you something back, like legitimate big league
- 2:59Speaker 2: starting pitching that can build you a future.
- 3:02Speaker 3: Will they do it? I don't know. I really doubt it.
- 3:05Speaker 3: Should they do it? One hundred percent? This is a
- 3:07Speaker 3: five alarm fire.
- 3:08Speaker 2: Redebtmer is the most inconsistent pitcher the Angels are put
- 3:11Speaker 2: out there for year after years, finally looking like like
- 3:14Speaker 2: prime Clayton Kershall right now, like, do something about it. Seriously,
- 3:18Speaker 2: this is the easiest answer on the planet. I don't
- 3:20Speaker 2: think they'll they'll listen to me, but I think it
- 3:22Speaker 2: makes a ton of sense.
- 3:24Speaker 4: Mark, what do you get step on the gas or
- 3:27Speaker 4: all this chat? Steam needs a closer. He's out there,
- 3:33Speaker 4: Boston's not playing well, do what it takes. Maybe Raphael
- 3:37Speaker 4: Jevers too.
- 3:40Speaker 1: Three we do with the Giants?
- 3:42Speaker 5: Oh boy, the Giants are unloading too. I don't know.
- 3:49Speaker 5: I agree with Sam.
- 3:50Speaker 4: I think that my only real question is when is
- 3:54Speaker 4: the like when when might the Angel's window actually be?
- 3:57Speaker 5: To me?
- 3:58Speaker 4: Twenty twenty nine, twenty thirty so well, I mean, do
- 4:02Speaker 4: you disagree? Do you think it's now?
- 4:05Speaker 1: Well? I think a lot of that depends on if
- 4:07Speaker 1: Arty's willing to open up the pocketbook again. And my
- 4:11Speaker 1: indications and everything we've been led to believe at this
- 4:13Speaker 1: point is that's that's not going to happen.
- 4:16Speaker 3: Maybe their window is when he sells.
- 4:18Speaker 1: Their window is just going to say, maybe he sells
- 4:20Speaker 1: a team next year, Maybe the CBA comes down, the
- 4:23Speaker 1: expansion comes down, Boom already puts a team up. Maybe
- 4:26Speaker 1: by next year they got a new owner in then
- 4:28Speaker 1: I think that window can be moved up. But yeah,
- 4:31Speaker 1: if Arty Marino is the owner, I'd say that window
- 4:34Speaker 1: is at least three three to three to four years out.
- 4:36Speaker 1: I can't disagree with you on that, mark, Okay.
- 4:38Speaker 4: So that's kind of where I was coming from. And
- 4:41Speaker 4: I have a bunch of players that I'm not going
- 4:43Speaker 4: to read all of them from other organizations that are
- 4:45Speaker 4: young that I would probably target twenty twenty one years old,
- 4:50Speaker 4: a ball et cetera. For guys like Debtver's and Sorano,
- 4:55Speaker 4: I gotta I mean, if you're gonna, I'd listen to
- 4:58Speaker 4: all any and all offers. Well, i'd listen on any
- 5:02Speaker 4: virtually anyone. There are a few that I probably would not,
- 5:05Speaker 4: but and I would ask for a lot in return,
- 5:08Speaker 4: especially early. And you never know if a team some
- 5:11Speaker 4: of these teams like to strike, you know, if they
- 5:14Speaker 4: like Detmers enough, you come at you with you know,
- 5:17Speaker 4: multiple maybe they're number one overall prospect and an additional
- 5:21Speaker 4: top ten and who knows, maybe more.
- 5:25Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not even sure what Sam's total tear down
- 5:29Speaker 1: even looks like. And I've said in the show before.
- 5:31Speaker 1: I do think you need to identify a couple of
- 5:33Speaker 1: guys that you do want to retain and build around.
- 5:36Speaker 1: I think Urania is one of those guys. Sure, Debtmers
- 5:41Speaker 1: is tricky for me because he was pitching so well
- 5:43Speaker 1: right now, but position player wise, you know, there's not
- 5:47Speaker 1: a lot in the cupboard right there. But I would
- 5:50Speaker 1: go back, you know, in terms of Debtmers and Siriano,
- 5:53Speaker 1: I would go back to what the Oakland Athletics moneyball
- 5:56Speaker 1: Billy Bean early two thousands. They had a guy. They
- 6:00Speaker 1: had guys like Debtmers and Soreano all the time, Tim Hudson,
- 6:03Speaker 1: Mark Molder. These guys were star pitchers. As they entered
- 6:08Speaker 1: and moved through their arbitration years, the A's knew financially
- 6:13Speaker 1: they couldn't retain them. Opened before the two thousand and
- 6:16Speaker 1: five season, they traded Tim Hudson for three players. One
- 6:18Speaker 1: of them was One Cruz, who had a four point
- 6:21Speaker 1: zero five VRA and twelve big league seasons, not a
- 6:23Speaker 1: bad pick. But for Mark Moulder, they sent him to
- 6:27Speaker 1: Saint Louis for three players, one of them being a
- 6:31Speaker 1: young Dan Herron, who I believe is twenty four at
- 6:33Speaker 1: the time. Developed into a three time All Star, So
- 6:36Speaker 1: they would trade a guy like Reed Detmers before he
- 6:39Speaker 1: got to be expensive for maybe two Redetmers. Now, if
- 6:43Speaker 1: you can do trades like that, I would go for
- 6:46Speaker 1: it if I'm the Angels right now. But the question is,
- 6:49Speaker 1: do you do we think Perry Manassian is the GM,
- 6:53Speaker 1: the same GM who signed Jordan Romano, who brought back
- 6:58Speaker 1: Mancata at third base, who's signed Drew Pomerantz, who you know,
- 7:03Speaker 1: the track record for me is not great. Do you
- 7:05Speaker 1: would you guys trust him to make the kind of
- 7:08Speaker 1: franchise altering deals that could really really trigger a rebuilding process.
- 7:15Speaker 3: No, but I also don't really know what options you have.
- 7:17Speaker 2: I mean, you could wait till this to the off season,
- 7:19Speaker 2: and you know, then the value is a little bit lower,
- 7:23Speaker 2: but ultimately, yeah, that might be the move, right, I mean,
- 7:25Speaker 2: you wait till post you know, post lockout, and you know,
- 7:30Speaker 2: who knows what this off season will look like, winning
- 7:32Speaker 2: will end, what kind of window there will be to
- 7:34Speaker 2: even make trades like that. I I don't trust Perimanauzi
- 7:37Speaker 2: and I don't think he's done a good job in
- 7:38Speaker 2: this role in a capacity whatsoever. But at that at
- 7:41Speaker 2: the end of the day, Like I I, you have
- 7:44Speaker 2: to make some moves. You have to start building your
- 7:46Speaker 2: farm system, you have to start putting a plan in
- 7:48Speaker 2: place to win games here and I and I don't
- 7:50Speaker 2: fully believe that there's any way for this franchise to
- 7:53Speaker 2: be a success under Ardi Mareno, But I also don't
- 7:57Speaker 2: really know what other options there are. You just you
- 7:59Speaker 2: just to sit in this you know, painful purgatory for
- 8:02Speaker 2: a year after year he can actually try.
- 8:04Speaker 3: Something, And you know, I don't.
- 8:06Speaker 2: I think the all the other options, you know, watching
- 8:09Speaker 2: Red Demers for the next two and a half years,
- 8:11Speaker 2: pitch on a you know, seventy to seventy five win
- 8:14Speaker 2: team Sorreana and it's the same thing every time.
- 8:17Speaker 3: So I don't see it getting any better.
- 8:18Speaker 2: And I think you have to take a shot, even
- 8:20Speaker 2: if it's not in the best case scenario of you know, conditions.
- 8:24Speaker 1: And purgatory is a good word. I've used that word
- 8:26Speaker 1: in stories when I've written about this in the past. Mark,
- 8:31Speaker 1: what's your confidence level that Perry could pull something like
- 8:34Speaker 1: this off if he.
- 8:35Speaker 4: Had the green light to do so. He's made trades before.
- 8:38Speaker 4: It's not like he hasn't. Both ways, though, spelling then
- 8:45Speaker 4: going for it as well for him in his last
- 8:48Speaker 4: year of the contract and an uncertain future.
- 8:54Speaker 5: Going.
- 8:55Speaker 4: You know, the teardown route has to be kind of
- 8:58Speaker 4: daunting unless you have some sort of either verbal agreement
- 9:01Speaker 4: or otherwise that you're going to have a longer time
- 9:04Speaker 4: to bring it all together and give the fans something
- 9:08Speaker 4: to show for So far, if the record speaks for itself,
- 9:11Speaker 4: it's not great. The vision is hard to define as well.
- 9:14Speaker 4: It seems like it's always competitive and happy with the
- 9:19Speaker 4: guys they bring into camp. I think he brought in
- 9:22Speaker 4: a number of guys this year he was hoping to
- 9:23Speaker 4: possibly flip four prospects. You mentioned a few of them,
- 9:26Speaker 4: Romano Romano, Palm, Rance, Yates, Alec Manoa, Adam Frazier, some
- 9:31Speaker 4: guys that are already here Darnault, Cacucci, Jorge Hilaire and Moncata.
- 9:35Speaker 4: All these guys are veterans making bigger money. Almost there's
- 9:41Speaker 4: really no trade value there with any of those guys,
- 9:44Speaker 4: some due to injury, some due to poor performance. Some
- 9:46Speaker 4: are no longer even around the top two. So hard
- 9:49Speaker 4: to trade guys that are no longer on your roster.
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- 10:13Speaker 5: Who's gonna be in this series?
- 10:16Speaker 1: Well, the Angels start a weekend series in West Sacramento
- 10:20Speaker 1: against the Athletics. We picked him before, how can you
- 10:24Speaker 1: not pick him again? I'm going with Nick Kurtz. He's
- 10:27Speaker 1: hitting two ninety two with a nine to ninety three OPS,
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- 11:34Speaker 1: And Welcome back to Halo Territory with Mark Trumbo, Sam
- 11:37Speaker 1: Blum and Mike D. Givanowell. Let's talk about one of
- 11:41Speaker 1: the articles that has fueled some of the speculation, early
- 11:44Speaker 1: speculation as we approach the trade deadline. It was written
- 11:47Speaker 1: by ESPN's Jeff Passon and Kylie McDaniel, published on their
- 11:52Speaker 1: website yesterday, and they ranked the top one hundred trade
- 11:56Speaker 1: deadline candidates in MLB. As you might suspect, Derek schoobl
- 12:00Speaker 1: of the Tigers and Byron Bucksman of the Twins were
- 12:02Speaker 1: one to two, but the Angels had eight players in
- 12:06Speaker 1: that top one hundred, including Debtmers at number six, Jose
- 12:10Speaker 1: Soriano at number seven, and Joe Adell at number twenty three.
- 12:15Speaker 1: The other players Angels on that list Sam Bachman at forty,
- 12:19Speaker 1: Chase silseth fifty one, Jes Solaire fifty three, Ryan Zephyr
- 12:25Speaker 1: John sixty and little surprise, Kirby Yates at ninety one
- 12:30Speaker 1: also on that list. I don't know, maybe if Kirby
- 12:33Speaker 1: just starts pitching like he did in twenty twenty four,
- 12:36Speaker 1: he'll garner some interest on that trade market. Let's take
- 12:41Speaker 1: a closer look at what Jeff and Kylie had to
- 12:43Speaker 1: write about some of these guys on Debtmer's fourth most
- 12:47Speaker 1: strikeouts in the Big leagues behind Jacob Manzarowski, Christopher Sanchez
- 12:52Speaker 1: and Dylan Cees come not walking hitters or giving up
- 12:56Speaker 1: home runs as a metric darling. On top of that,
- 12:59Speaker 1: whatever that means. Complement all that with an additional two
- 13:03Speaker 1: years of club control, and his value has skyrocketed this year,
- 13:07Speaker 1: giving the Angels a genuine opportunity to start a long
- 13:11Speaker 1: needed rebuild the proper way. Now, Debtmers is three and
- 13:15Speaker 1: five with a three point six eight ERA and one
- 13:18Speaker 1: hundred strikeouts and fifteen starts in the season. But look
- 13:21Speaker 1: at his last five starts one point three six ERA,
- 13:26Speaker 1: thirty three innings, pitch, twelve hits, five walks, thirty nine strikeouts.
- 13:32Speaker 1: So as we said, read Debtmers, I'm not sure his
- 13:36Speaker 1: value is going to get any higher. What do you
- 13:39Speaker 1: guys think they can get for Reed Debtmers? And I
- 13:42Speaker 1: totally agree with Mark. There's some guys out there who
- 13:44Speaker 1: might be willing to strike early. Maybe this trade could happen,
- 13:48Speaker 1: you know, early July, well before the trade deadline. What
- 13:51Speaker 1: could this guy get you? Right now?
- 13:54Speaker 5: Sam?
- 13:55Speaker 3: Mark, I you want me to go.
- 13:58Speaker 2: You want the research on the best available.
- 14:01Speaker 5: Lot I did for Debtmers?
- 14:06Speaker 4: Okay, so a metric Darling by the way, stuff plus
- 14:10Speaker 4: Mike get with it.
- 14:13Speaker 1: I'm old school that way he wins.
- 14:16Speaker 4: Does he have what's the whip? Actually that's the school too,
- 14:21Speaker 4: probably so Detmers. Some of these teams that made sense
- 14:24Speaker 4: to me. I'm going to have to look down to
- 14:25Speaker 4: read it. Those listening don't don't care about that. But
- 14:29Speaker 4: the Rays have a top five system. It's kind of
- 14:32Speaker 4: debate that these are subjective as far as their farm
- 14:34Speaker 4: system rankings. They got a twenty year old Theo Gillen
- 14:38Speaker 4: is an athletic center fielder with a plus speed on
- 14:40Speaker 4: base skills, developing power. A really good player, guy named
- 14:44Speaker 4: Anderson Brito, right handed pitcher. He's compact with a really
- 14:48Speaker 4: strong arm and a really nasty, wipe out, breaking ball
- 14:51Speaker 4: and a catcher Caden Bodine. He's twenty two years old.
- 14:55Speaker 4: He's a switch hitter, putting out, putting up huge numbers
- 14:58Speaker 4: this year. The other team that I know or at
- 15:02Speaker 4: least assume, really like Stemmers. A lot of compliments from
- 15:05Speaker 4: them are the team in blue up the five freeway.
- 15:09Speaker 4: Now do we not trade with them? I don't know
- 15:13Speaker 4: if they're interested. They have what appears to be the
- 15:16Speaker 4: number one or number two rank farm system. Some people
- 15:19Speaker 4: think it's constantly juiced and overrated, and that's fine, but
- 15:25Speaker 4: they do have some intriguing prospects, and what we are
- 15:28Speaker 4: light in in the minor leagues is bats. So I
- 15:32Speaker 4: believe he's the number one prospect. I'm gonna say, Hosea
- 15:36Speaker 4: de Paula could be.
- 15:38Speaker 1: Josh Joshua Joshua.
- 15:40Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, he's a very good player. All right. You
- 15:44Speaker 5: know you're familiar with some of these guys.
- 15:46Speaker 4: Sweet swinging out fielder, huge towns are your hope. I mean,
- 15:51Speaker 4: these guys are good players, yeah, and you need to
- 15:55Speaker 4: start acquiring another guy at Duardo Contaro's twenty years old.
- 15:59Speaker 4: It's all young guys is with big potential. There are
- 16:02Speaker 4: ways off. You know, the ETAs are going to be
- 16:04Speaker 4: twenty eight, twenty nine on most of them. The Cardinals
- 16:07Speaker 4: make sense too. Maybe you can pluck Liam Doyle their
- 16:10Speaker 4: first rounder and someone else. I think that mersvalue is
- 16:13Speaker 4: extremely high and he's peaking at the at the right time.
- 16:17Speaker 4: As far as Soriano, so the Braves keep coming up.
- 16:21Speaker 4: They're an obvious trade partner. Their farm sism is not.
- 16:24Speaker 5: Good at all. It's pretty barren.
- 16:26Speaker 4: They got a couple guys that Briggs mackenzie was the
- 16:29Speaker 4: one that stuck out, stood out nineteen years old, projectable starter.
- 16:33Speaker 4: The White Sox actually have a very good farm system
- 16:35Speaker 4: if they or at least they have a number of
- 16:38Speaker 4: prospects intriguing left these big guys and the Padres. I
- 16:42Speaker 4: threw on there just because you never know what they're
- 16:44Speaker 4: going to do. Ethan Sallas tremendous catcher record, international bonus
- 16:49Speaker 4: and the guy Cruz Schoolcraft six 's eight Lefty. He
- 16:53Speaker 4: really intrigued me. He's not put up great numbers, but
- 16:56Speaker 4: I don't know why. And he was a two way player,
- 16:58Speaker 4: but he's a pitcher only now. So these are some
- 17:01Speaker 4: teams that I think makes sense. Could be there's probably
- 17:04Speaker 4: gonna be suitors from all over if they do listen
- 17:07Speaker 4: to offers.
- 17:08Speaker 2: Though.
- 17:09Speaker 1: Yeah, what Passion and McDaniel wrote about Soriano is interesting
- 17:12Speaker 1: as well, and I think it pertains this situation for sure.
- 17:15Speaker 1: He started the season by giving up one run in
- 17:17Speaker 1: his first thirty seven to two or third innings. Memory
- 17:19Speaker 1: was American League Pitcher of the Month, and we did
- 17:23Speaker 1: a whole show asking the question, is this guy in ace?
- 17:26Speaker 1: But he's posted the ARA approaching five point since the
- 17:30Speaker 1: stuff really plays, and plenty of organizations believe they can
- 17:34Speaker 1: work out the control kinks that plague. Soriano added that
- 17:38Speaker 1: two years of control and the same pitching hungry organizations
- 17:41Speaker 1: that want debt meers, contenders and teams that intend to
- 17:44Speaker 1: contend in the coming years will be interested in Soriano.
- 17:48Speaker 1: I'm not so sure Soriano's gonna get you what Detmer's
- 17:52Speaker 1: is right now. I do think I don't think it's
- 17:55Speaker 1: a health issue, but I just think he looks to
- 17:57Speaker 1: me like more of a number three slash force starter.
- 18:00Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what you get. Do you think
- 18:02Speaker 1: his value he's dropped a little, a little, Sam, I
- 18:05Speaker 1: don't think so.
- 18:06Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think what you find is
- 18:08Speaker 2: teams tend to be cocky, right, Like they tend to
- 18:10Speaker 2: look at the angels and say they're not figuring that
- 18:12Speaker 2: out with this guy, we can. I mean, that's like
- 18:14Speaker 2: been the formula you've seen year after year. So I
- 18:17Speaker 2: would imagine when you look at just the raw ability
- 18:19Speaker 2: of Jose Soreano, combined with the fact what he already
- 18:22Speaker 2: kind of put on paper in that first six weeks
- 18:24Speaker 2: of the season, would probably maybe even make him more
- 18:26Speaker 2: of I don't know, I mean, listen, you know, not
- 18:28Speaker 2: an expert exactly on how teams might evaluate the minute
- 18:32Speaker 2: differences between a pitcher pitching really well and with a
- 18:34Speaker 2: certain moment compared to a guy who's struggled over the
- 18:37Speaker 2: course of a couple weeks. But I think that he
- 18:40Speaker 2: might have more or equal value than debtmers. And I mean,
- 18:43Speaker 2: you know, the teams that I think will be you know,
- 18:46Speaker 2: maybe the most interested are.
- 18:47Speaker 3: The ones that would not be able to afford pictures
- 18:49Speaker 3: like this in free agency.
- 18:50Speaker 2: Who would look at two and a half, two plus
- 18:52Speaker 2: years three playoff runs with an ace type pitcher and say, okay,
- 18:56Speaker 2: like there's you know, this is worth us giving.
- 18:58Speaker 3: Something up in a signific way.
- 19:00Speaker 2: I mean, look at like what like Mason Miller got
- 19:02Speaker 2: last year, I mean the number three overall prospect in
- 19:06Speaker 2: baseball plus like three other prospects. I mean, no, he
- 19:08Speaker 2: had one more year of control, and he's you know,
- 19:10Speaker 2: maybe the best closer in baseball, and there's some other
- 19:13Speaker 2: dynamics to play there.
- 19:14Speaker 3: But you can get some of the best prospects in baseball.
- 19:17Speaker 2: For these guys I think, I mean, just given given
- 19:20Speaker 2: the years of control, given the raw ability, given the
- 19:23Speaker 2: you know what.
- 19:23Speaker 3: They've already put on paper.
- 19:25Speaker 2: I mean, I think that there's there's a lot there
- 19:26Speaker 2: in this if like if you don't, if you if
- 19:28Speaker 2: you're in the Angels front office and you're saying sitting
- 19:30Speaker 2: here saying like we're gonna do it with these guys,
- 19:33Speaker 2: like then why aren't you? Why are you thirty and
- 19:35Speaker 2: forty five? So that would be my that would be
- 19:37Speaker 2: my counter Marcus.
- 19:39Speaker 1: So you're shaking your head a little bit there.
- 19:41Speaker 4: It's I mean, say, I agree with Sam On on
- 19:46Speaker 4: most I think Detmers has a little more value than Sorry,
- 19:49Speaker 4: I don't, just especially if you get an owner involved
- 19:53Speaker 4: that happens to really like a guy storry On or
- 19:56Speaker 4: recently we've we've talked about it quite a bit. Just
- 20:00Speaker 4: doesn't it's not as Chris, It's not easy to find
- 20:04Speaker 4: what's going on. Still, he's kind of in between on
- 20:06Speaker 4: some of his pitches and still getting it done. But
- 20:09Speaker 4: Detmer's that slider is disgusting, and he seems to have
- 20:14Speaker 4: been able to translate that mentality that he had in
- 20:17Speaker 4: the bullpen last year to the starting rotation. Very aggressive.
- 20:23Speaker 4: He's peaking at the right time, so this would be
- 20:25Speaker 4: selling very high. Soriano is also selling very high, and
- 20:28Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean Soria. They both should command
- 20:31Speaker 4: a big haul if you could get you know, if
- 20:34Speaker 4: you trade both of them and get eight players who
- 20:37Speaker 4: knows these teams that are in it and they have
- 20:40Speaker 4: the prospect capital. That's why you want the deep farm
- 20:43Speaker 4: system to be able to make these moves. It's going
- 20:45Speaker 4: to hurt sometimes sometimes these guys don't pan out at all,
- 20:48Speaker 4: maybe oftentimes, but uh, you know, you get a GM
- 20:52Speaker 4: like Dombrowski, he might be willing to pay up.
- 20:56Speaker 1: The other guy high on the on their rankings, who
- 20:59Speaker 1: would probably bring back some value as Joe Adell. Now
- 21:01Speaker 1: Joe is only hitting two fifty three with the six
- 21:03Speaker 1: ninety two OPS, ten homers, forty one rbas on the season.
- 21:08Speaker 1: Buddy's been on a bit of a tear of these
- 21:10Speaker 1: last ten games three seventy two with a nine to
- 21:13Speaker 1: sixty OPS, only one homer, but four doubles, six RBIs
- 21:18Speaker 1: and as as you'll hear on the broadcast pretty regularly,
- 21:22Speaker 1: his exit philosophies are excellent. Right now, Joe Adell, what
- 21:28Speaker 1: do you guys think? What could he bring you back?
- 21:31Speaker 1: Right now? And talk about a cell high candidate? You know,
- 21:34Speaker 1: right now, he's as hot as he's ever going to be,
- 21:37Speaker 1: with the exception of maybe some of the long balls.
- 21:39Speaker 1: A pretty intriguing guy for some teams. The Phillies definitely
- 21:42Speaker 1: were sound like they're very interested in him with the
- 21:46Speaker 1: injuries they have in the outfield.
- 21:48Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it goes back to even my last
- 21:51Speaker 2: point about teams kind of feeling like they can get
- 21:53Speaker 2: more out of players in their you know, systems than
- 21:56Speaker 2: I go back to even like the Brandon Marsh trade.
- 21:58Speaker 2: I remember talking with Kevin Long at the World Series
- 22:01Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two and he was just like, yeah,
- 22:03Speaker 2: like we couldn't really believe what he was doing with
- 22:05Speaker 2: the Angels, right like that was kind of I remember
- 22:07Speaker 2: the exact quote, but I feel like that is kind
- 22:09Speaker 2: of the sentiment that you hear when players get traded,
- 22:11Speaker 2: and I think before they get traded, when they when
- 22:13Speaker 2: they look at a player like Joe Adell and see
- 22:15Speaker 2: the abilities there. I think it's a good sign that
- 22:17Speaker 2: he's kind of getting hot. Normally, his heaters are home runs,
- 22:21Speaker 2: right like we saw it last June. I mean, he
- 22:23Speaker 2: had like fifteen home runs in June. I mean then
- 22:25Speaker 2: that is when he's at his best. You usually just
- 22:27Speaker 2: see the homers. So I think it's a good sign
- 22:29Speaker 2: that he's getting on base more. He's you know, just
- 22:31Speaker 2: making contacts, he's you know, just performing well spraining the
- 22:35Speaker 2: ball over the field. That shows that he's maybe growing
- 22:37Speaker 2: a little bit as a hitter. You know, we had
- 22:39Speaker 2: that one epic low light of the ball bouncing office head.
- 22:42Speaker 2: But ultimately, like you know, his defense is better. I
- 22:45Speaker 2: think there's a good player in there, and I think
- 22:47Speaker 2: another team would would you know, probably pay up to
- 22:49Speaker 2: see if they can, you know, unlock the former you know,
- 22:52Speaker 2: top five, top two or three prospects in the in
- 22:55Speaker 2: baseball potential that you know, I think everybody still thinks
- 22:58Speaker 2: is in there, and he's shown a little.
- 22:59Speaker 3: Bit over the course of the last couple of years,
- 23:01Speaker 3: so you.
- 23:03Speaker 2: Know, he's not going to maybe get you the same
- 23:04Speaker 2: or he's one last year of control, so he's not
- 23:06Speaker 2: going to get you the same as one of these,
- 23:07Speaker 2: you know, maybe top tier starting pitchers. But I again
- 23:10Speaker 2: I say sell off. I don't think it should stop
- 23:11Speaker 2: at these three. I think there should be more. And
- 23:14Speaker 2: you know, uh, we'll see, We'll see what they said
- 23:16Speaker 2: to you.
- 23:17Speaker 1: Yeah, the biggest fear in all these trades is that
- 23:19Speaker 1: you're going to deal a guy and he's just going
- 23:21Speaker 1: to go on to this become a star with that
- 23:23Speaker 1: next team.
- 23:24Speaker 5: I don't know.
- 23:24Speaker 1: Joe's been around so long. I don't even really think
- 23:27Speaker 1: of him as a young player anymore.
- 23:29Speaker 3: Mark.
- 23:29Speaker 1: Do you think he's sort of peaking right now? Or
- 23:32Speaker 1: is there more in the tank for Joe Adell? It
- 23:34Speaker 1: is this his value as high as it's ever going
- 23:36Speaker 1: to be right now? No, I think last year's value
- 23:40Speaker 1: was quite a bit higher. He's a hard one. He
- 23:44Speaker 1: is hitting the ball hard. As you said, he is
- 23:49Speaker 1: doing some things better. I think his defense was was
- 23:52Speaker 1: uh superior last year. Sorry, but you know it's on
- 23:58Speaker 1: base percentage is still not where most teams would like
- 24:03Speaker 1: to see it. The home runs are inconsistent, and you know,
- 24:07Speaker 1: as far as the trademarket goes.
- 24:09Speaker 4: You mentioned Buxton earlier. He's also got Taylor Ward and
- 24:11Speaker 4: Seya Suzuki who are ranked ahead of him. So if
- 24:15Speaker 4: he was the lone corner outfielder with you know, the
- 24:20Speaker 4: power of potential that a team might need, then I
- 24:23Speaker 4: think that, you know, the return would obviously be a
- 24:25Speaker 4: lot more now that there's a few other guys in
- 24:27Speaker 4: the mix. I don't know, you know, they might prefer
- 24:30Speaker 4: Joe over all of these guys at Buxton, probably not,
- 24:32Speaker 4: but Taylor Ward and Joe Adell. I mean, if you
- 24:35Speaker 4: were opposing GM and you needed a right handed BATMC,
- 24:38Speaker 4: which one would you look to acquire?
- 24:40Speaker 1: I would take Joe Adell at this point, I think no,
- 24:44Speaker 1: Sam would not. I mean, I haven't seen Taylor play
- 24:46Speaker 1: this year, so.
- 24:47Speaker 3: He's he's got he's getting on base the time. I mean,
- 24:51Speaker 3: he's haven't even look.
- 24:51Speaker 1: At his numbers before he asked me put me on
- 24:53Speaker 1: a spot there, Trumble.
- 24:55Speaker 7: I don't know.
- 24:55Speaker 1: I just think Joe's so much younger, and I think
- 24:58Speaker 1: he has more upside at this point. I'm just looking
- 25:00Speaker 1: at it from that perspective. I think, yeah, I think
- 25:03Speaker 1: Joe peaked last year from a power standpoint, But maybe
- 25:06Speaker 1: this is maybe the version we're seeing this past two
- 25:08Speaker 1: weeks is a better Joe Adele where he's not hitting
- 25:11Speaker 1: so many home I mean how many balls he hit
- 25:13Speaker 1: hard to the right center field, down the right field line.
- 25:16Speaker 1: I mean he's using the big part of the field,
- 25:18Speaker 1: as we always say here. I mean, he's doing things
- 25:21Speaker 1: you want to see out of a player. So I
- 25:24Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just I would pick Joe over Taylor
- 25:28Speaker 1: word But like I said, I have not looked at
- 25:30Speaker 1: his numbers. We're going to close a show with a
- 25:32Speaker 1: clip from Jeff Passon, who actually appeared on the Foul
- 25:35Speaker 1: Territory Network yesterday, has some interesting thoughts on the big
- 25:39Speaker 1: picture Angels and what direction they should take as this
- 25:43Speaker 1: trade deadline approaches.
- 25:45Speaker 4: You have on here Jose Soriano on Re Demers.
- 25:47Speaker 3: Would they really do that?
- 25:49Speaker 1: I mean, have they finally have two guys that are
- 25:51Speaker 1: pretty good as pictures?
- 25:52Speaker 3: Now?
- 25:53Speaker 1: Would they really trade him?
- 25:54Speaker 3: Because they both have years of control left, don't they?
- 25:57Speaker 1: They do?
- 25:58Speaker 7: They both have two years of control at this season,
- 26:00Speaker 7: and I don't like doing this, aja.
- 26:03Speaker 1: But I'm gonna do it anyway. What else do they have?
- 26:07Speaker 4: Mike Trout?
- 26:09Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike Trout's awesome.
- 26:10Speaker 7: He's also in his thirties and it as good.
- 26:14Speaker 8: As I mean, here's the thing, the thing try Joe, Yeah,
- 26:24Speaker 8: I listen.
- 26:25Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
- 26:25Speaker 7: Zach Netto is a really good player, and I think
- 26:29Speaker 7: the Angels have a bunch of okay guys to complement
- 26:34Speaker 7: those two starting pitchers Mike Trout and Zach Netto. And frankly,
- 26:38Speaker 7: it's just not enough. And how do we know it's
- 26:41Speaker 7: not enough? Because we look at their record, because we
- 26:44Speaker 7: look at the way that they play, because we look
- 26:46Speaker 7: at their farm system and it's not good, and it
- 26:49Speaker 7: doesn't have a lot of guys who are near big
- 26:51Speaker 7: league ready and going to be impact type players. So,
- 26:54Speaker 7: if you're in that scenario and you're taking an objective
- 26:56Speaker 7: look at how do we get out of it? I'm
- 26:59Speaker 7: not the who's going to advocate for straight up tanking.
- 27:03Speaker 7: I think that's a problematic thing in sports, period, and
- 27:07Speaker 7: I think the draft lottery's done a really nice job
- 27:10Speaker 7: of disincentivizing teams from doing that. But how if you
- 27:13Speaker 7: are the Angels, do you not look at your current
- 27:15Speaker 7: state of affairs and say, we need to tear this
- 27:19Speaker 7: thing down and start over. I If Arty Moreno is
- 27:24Speaker 7: not going to go out and spend, and it's almost
- 27:27Speaker 7: like Josh Hamilton scared him off of that with the
- 27:32Speaker 7: five year, one hundred plus million dollar contract that had
- 27:35Speaker 7: negative war by the end of it. If Ardi Morino
- 27:38Speaker 7: is not going to go out and spend, this team's
- 27:39Speaker 7: not going to be any better. I mean, they shopped
- 27:42Speaker 7: in the bargain basement this offseason hoping to land a
- 27:45Speaker 7: guy who could resurrect his career, and none of those
- 27:50Speaker 7: panned out. Now, they were low dollar signings. There was
- 27:53Speaker 7: not a whole lot that they were putting in to
- 27:55Speaker 7: do that. But this Angels team, it doesn't have a
- 27:58Speaker 7: good present, doesn't have a particularly good future. And so
- 28:02Speaker 7: why wouldn't you start from scratch at this point? Because
- 28:06Speaker 7: Red Debtmer's and Jose Soriano both will have a ton
- 28:10Speaker 7: of trade value and bring back the sorts of packages
- 28:13Speaker 7: that can make your farm system good overnight.
- 28:17Speaker 1: All right, starting from scratch? Interesting words from one of
- 28:22Speaker 1: the nation's premier baseball writers, Sam What does that look
- 28:24Speaker 1: now you mentioned right off the top, it sounds like
- 28:27Speaker 1: you would agree with with Jeff's.
- 28:30Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree with him.
- 28:31Speaker 2: I mean, I think he's right. I think, you know,
- 28:33Speaker 2: everything he says makes sense, Like look at their record.
- 28:36Speaker 2: I mean, I don't you know Aj asked those questions.
- 28:38Speaker 2: He asked me those questions too, and I go on,
- 28:40Speaker 2: I don't always understand them. But you know, listen, I
- 28:44Speaker 2: think like this is pretty clear cut. This is this
- 28:47Speaker 2: team is not winning with these players. You have to
- 28:49Speaker 2: make moves. You have to start from scratch. I mean,
- 28:52Speaker 2: I will go back to can you do it with
- 28:54Speaker 2: Artie Marino? I mean, I'm a Knicks fan. They just
- 28:55Speaker 2: did it with James Dolan, so they figured it out.
- 28:58Speaker 2: I think there are where, there is a world where
- 29:01Speaker 2: somehow you can win despite you know, having one of
- 29:04Speaker 2: the worst donors, if not the worst owner in pro sports.
- 29:07Speaker 2: But it starts with making the right decisions, and it
- 29:10Speaker 2: starts with recognizing where you're at. And that has been
- 29:13Speaker 2: the number one problem here. They've never been able to
- 29:16Speaker 2: level with either with the fans or with themselves of
- 29:18Speaker 2: kind of where they're at.
- 29:20Speaker 3: I think, you know, it's it's painful, it is not fun.
- 29:22Speaker 2: To trade away Redetmers when he's pitching like this, right
- 29:25Speaker 2: if nobody wants to not see Redetmers on the mound
- 29:28Speaker 2: every five days. He is as fun of a player
- 29:31Speaker 2: as the Angels have right now. And I think that
- 29:33Speaker 2: that has always been the difficult thing here, right, like
- 29:36Speaker 2: to be able to understand see the forest from the trees,
- 29:39Speaker 2: to be able to understand what it takes to get there,
- 29:43Speaker 2: and they've never been. I've always complimented teams like the Rays.
- 29:47Speaker 2: You know there, you know you trade away Evan Longoria,
- 29:49Speaker 2: Like that's painful stuff, Like you know, you get attached
- 29:53Speaker 2: to players, But I think the best organizations understand that
- 29:55Speaker 2: you get attached to winning, right, Like, you do what
- 29:58Speaker 2: it takes, you make the payinful sacrifices. I go back
- 30:01Speaker 2: to the next They did that numerous times on this
- 30:03Speaker 2: path to win in a championship. I think that that
- 30:05Speaker 2: has been the biggest thing that's missing. That's kind of
- 30:08Speaker 2: what Jeff's I think saying here, is like, yeah, I
- 30:10Speaker 2: mean great to have great players, but better to have
- 30:13Speaker 2: winning teams. And uh, it's pretty clear cut what they
- 30:16Speaker 2: need to do.
- 30:17Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned zach Netto.
- 30:18Speaker 2: Should they should he be on this list, maybe I don't,
- 30:22Speaker 2: you know, I don't think you'd be selling low. I
- 30:23Speaker 2: mean he's I think right now, his reputation, his performance,
- 30:26Speaker 2: everything is probably a little bit in question, but ultimately
- 30:29Speaker 2: right like, he's someone that would would would garner.
- 30:31Speaker 3: A lot of interest.
- 30:32Speaker 2: So I think you got to put everybody on the
- 30:34Speaker 2: table and really assess where you're at. I don't saying
- 30:36Speaker 2: they definitely need to trade someone like Zach Netto, who's
- 30:38Speaker 2: got a lot of years left and you know, in
- 30:39Speaker 2: theory is the person you want to build around if
- 30:42Speaker 2: you ever do get there. But you have to think
- 30:44Speaker 2: about everything right now.
- 30:45Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that Neto is not on the list.
- 30:47Speaker 1: I'm assuming that Passing and McDaniel are looking at him
- 30:52Speaker 1: as part of the core that you don't want to trade.
- 30:54Speaker 1: And I've said it before, I think you have whether
- 30:58Speaker 1: Detmers is on this list or not. I think the
- 31:00Speaker 1: Angels need to identify a handful of really good young
- 31:04Speaker 1: players that they think they can build around, and whatever
- 31:08Speaker 1: you can get for the rest. I think you try,
- 31:10Speaker 1: you listen on everybody, and if Netto is not the
- 31:13Speaker 1: guy you want to move forward to, now might be
- 31:15Speaker 1: the best time to trade him.
- 31:17Speaker 5: If reed.
- 31:17Speaker 1: Detmer's is a guy, and you guys raise some great points.
- 31:20Speaker 1: With the GM being on his one year deal, essentially
- 31:24Speaker 1: the owner situation being in flux, it would even have time,
- 31:28Speaker 1: you know, to really conduct a thorough tear down and rebuild.
- 31:32Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to, So that's another wrench
- 31:36Speaker 1: that I didn't even think about before we went before
- 31:38Speaker 1: we tape the show. But Mark, I'll leave the last
- 31:41Speaker 1: word to you. Agree disagree with what Jeff Passon is saying.
- 31:45Speaker 1: Do you have sort of your own maybe definition of
- 31:48Speaker 1: what starting over would look like.
- 31:52Speaker 4: I know what it looks like, been through it with Baltimore.
- 31:55Speaker 1: That's true.
- 31:56Speaker 4: It's very ugly, and you have a lot of customers.
- 32:00Speaker 4: I think at worst angels are eleventh and home attendance,
- 32:02Speaker 4: and those customers might not have an appetite for you
- 32:07Speaker 4: know what a rebuild actually looks like because it can
- 32:11Speaker 4: be very ugly. A lot of mental mistakes, a lot
- 32:13Speaker 4: of cents are I don't competing to the best of
- 32:23Speaker 4: my knowledge, Parazza Oswald parrazz is a guy that I think,
- 32:28Speaker 4: Actually I am a big fan. Most people that at
- 32:32Speaker 4: least listen semi regularly know that I think that many
- 32:35Speaker 4: teams would like to have him. The Burghs, for example,
- 32:37Speaker 4: they just d favorite Rangifo and need some infield help.
- 32:42Speaker 4: And Christian Moore is, you know, banging down the door.
- 32:45Speaker 4: A lot of it appears. You know, what else does
- 32:48Speaker 4: he have to prove? It is the PCL But he
- 32:51Speaker 4: is the first round pick and they've played a little
- 32:54Speaker 4: slow with him. But he's going to have to be
- 32:55Speaker 4: up here at some point. So who you know? Who
- 32:58Speaker 4: do you move in order toccommodate that? I don't have
- 33:02Speaker 4: to answer that, fortunately, but I am intrigued by it,
- 33:07Speaker 4: and I think that's the about the extent of the
- 33:09Speaker 4: notes I have. But I also that the Angels have,
- 33:13Speaker 4: to my knowledge, never done a real read build, so
- 33:15Speaker 4: there may not be a blueprint. And Michael Olias with
- 33:20Speaker 4: the Orioles had done something similar, if I'm not mistaken
- 33:23Speaker 4: with with Euston.
- 33:25Speaker 5: And the word is.
- 33:26Speaker 1: Not in Already's vocabulary, it never has been. He hates
- 33:29Speaker 1: the word. I don't even think you'll allow anyone to
- 33:31Speaker 1: even use it. I don't know if that's you know,
- 33:35Speaker 1: they did have some years where they were clearly sellers,
- 33:38Speaker 1: you know, when they trade away Estevez and and and
- 33:42Speaker 1: the other closer went to the Braves.
- 33:45Speaker 3: Name is Gaius.
- 33:47Speaker 5: Yeah.
- 33:47Speaker 1: I mean they've been obvious sellers at times, but for
- 33:51Speaker 1: some reason, they did not sell show show Heytani when
- 33:54Speaker 1: they had the perfect chance to do so, and I
- 33:57Speaker 1: think they'll rue that day forever.
- 33:59Speaker 2: Uh.
- 34:00Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how already views his ownership with
- 34:05Speaker 1: the team right now, if he looks at himself as
- 34:07Speaker 1: a short timer, if he's planning on holding onto this
- 34:11Speaker 1: team for several years into the future. I just don't
- 34:14Speaker 1: think he's ever had the stomach for a rebuild. But
- 34:17Speaker 1: until he opens up that the wallet, I agree with
- 34:20Speaker 1: Jeff passing, the Angels aren't going to get very far
- 34:23Speaker 1: with what they have right now. So close the show
- 34:25Speaker 1: with that, Hey, thanks for listening and tuning in. Please
- 34:29Speaker 1: like and subscribe and we'll see you next time on
- 34:31Speaker 1: Halo Territory.