Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 25: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 3 - Am I Ready? Are We Ready?

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25: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 3 - Am I Ready? Are We Ready? · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey, everybody, happy to have you here.
• 0:01
  We're going to continue on in the conversations around
• 0:04
  therapeutic full disclosures and just want to touch on a few
• 0:08
  things before we dive into the conversation.
• 0:10
  So this episode we talked about recognizing the readiness for a
• 0:16
  Full disclosure. So we have to determine that is
• 0:19
  the person in a space, they're ready for the Full disclosure.
• 0:22
  And then we're also going to discuss topics like timing,
• 0:26
  safety, fears, what kind of support system needs to be in
• 0:29
  place, and just being able to commit to the process.
• 0:33
  So anyway, looking forward to having the conversation.
• 0:39
  Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
• 0:41
  I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
• 0:44
  in the space today. What we're going to be doing is
• 0:45
  diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
• 0:49
  authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
• 0:52
  about a single action or a moment.
• 0:54
  It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
• 0:57
  the rich connection and meaning that our life has to offer.
• 1:00
  So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
• 1:03
  regular listener, know this. What you're building here goes
• 1:06
  beyond a conversation. You're here to challenge, to
• 1:09
  change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
• 1:12
  your authentic self. Because when you dare to show up
• 1:14
  fully, the rewards are immeasurable.
• 1:17
  So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started.
• 1:21
  Hello everyone, welcome. Thanks for joining us again.
• 1:25
  The three of us, Lana, Luke and myself as we continue this
• 1:28
  series around full therapeutic disclosures.
• 1:32
  This really has been fun to dive into.
• 1:35
  And I will say, I know we've said this all three episodes
• 1:39
  that we've done like we are going to slow this down or we
• 1:41
  are going to break it apart. And it has actually been really
• 1:45
  fun to go through the notes and think through, at least for
• 1:49
  myself, the details and the specifics and a lot I were going
• 1:55
  through some notes today. And we're like, we're going to
• 1:57
  make that a whole episode. We really are breaking this
• 1:59
  apart and hopefully slowing this down for a lot of you who are in
• 2:06
  this space who are considering this.
• 2:07
  And today we're going to talk about really that question.
• 2:10
  And I think a lot of you might be asking, am I ready?
• 2:12
  Are we ready? And we're going to try our best
• 2:15
  again to address some of those questions that you can ask
• 2:19
  yourself. As always, please, please,
• 2:23
  please know that we'll do our best to try and cover as many of
• 2:26
  these things, but every single one of you and your relationship
• 2:30
  and your situations are different.
• 2:32
  So hopefully this sparks further questions.
• 2:35
  Let yourself go there. If we say something and your
• 2:39
  brain goes in a different direction or you notice your
• 2:42
  brain taking in different direction, maybe some fears come
• 2:45
  up. Push pause.
• 2:46
  And I cannot stress enough how important it is to push pause
• 2:50
  and give some time and attention.
• 2:52
  Write them down. Your brain is pulling something
• 2:54
  up. Your body is giving you some
• 2:56
  information. So I, I really want to encourage
• 3:00
  and I, I know Luke and Alana will join me on this, really
• 3:02
  want to encourage your own individuality in these
• 3:06
  conversations. So whatever's coming up for you
• 3:09
  is valid. We're just going to try and do
• 3:11
  our best to get those because the juice is rolling.
• 3:15
  That's not a good term to get the sparks going in your brain.
• 3:20
  OK, It's let's just dive into this question, Am I ready?
• 3:24
  How do I know if I'm ready? And I think just overall,
• 3:29
  whether you're the betrayed or the betrayer, as the couple,
• 3:33
  we're going to break it apart. But I think overall, the first
• 3:36
  thing, let's just talk about the timing because I think that
• 3:39
  matters to be able to determine if you're ready or not.
• 3:42
  What are your thoughts about that?
• 3:44
  It's funny, this one came up yesterday.
• 3:46
  I had a unprofessional that was that we were talking about how
• 3:51
  do I know if the client's ready for disclosure and thinking
• 3:54
  about the acting out partner and we talked about this last time,
• 3:58
  but it's stages of change and the ones timing matters from is
• 4:04
  the person willing to submit to the process.
• 4:08
  So timing is, is like I am feeling the impact of my choices
• 4:14
  and I recognize I need something different and we move on that
• 4:19
  experience of OK, it's time to go and recognize I feel for the
• 4:25
  person that's been betrayed because they so much is outside
• 4:29
  of their control waiting for that person to be at a spot
• 4:34
  where they are ready to let go of that outcome.
• 4:37
  So timing has more to do with the pain and I can't keep doing
• 4:41
  this anymore. That's the way that I see it.
• 4:44
  Yeah, I actually agree with that.
• 4:45
  It's a good perspective. I want you to say that again,
• 4:48
  timing has a lot to do with it. You didn't say this word, but
• 4:51
  willingness to let go of the pain.
• 4:54
  Yeah, let go of the outcome. Go the outcome and lean into the
• 4:57
  pain. Yeah.
• 5:00
  That resonates. It's interesting because I find
• 5:03
  myself deep in thought about my personality and I have similar
• 5:09
  clients where I needed the information yesterday.
• 5:14
  Don't tell me to wait 6 to 8 weeks or even longer.
• 5:18
  Fill in like multiple explicits. Like are you effing kidding me?
• 5:22
  No, I need it yesterday. I need it right now in the
• 5:24
  second here. And I did that many times.
• 5:27
  I insisted on the information many times.
• 5:31
  Yet there is so much in the process of really thoroughly
• 5:38
  exploring that for the be trained partner in a Safeway
• 5:42
  that they can dig deeper and understand more and share with
• 5:46
  more clarity that I wasn't willing to make timer space for.
• 5:52
  And it's interesting because when I hear timing, there are so
• 5:55
  many might be trade clients who are like now, like the timing is
• 5:59
  now. And if when we have that, there
• 6:04
  is a certain level of healing process, they get sacrificed.
• 6:08
  Now, does that mean that the person can't have certain pieces
• 6:12
  of information that they may need for safety immediately?
• 6:16
  No, they can still have that if that there are some safety
• 6:19
  pieces that are needed immediately.
• 6:21
  I think if somebody would have sat me down and said, Lana, I've
• 6:25
  got you. We've got this process.
• 6:29
  We are actively moving forward with it.
• 6:32
  Here's the dates we're looking at in every single week I meet
• 6:36
  with your partner, we're doing this, we're moving forward.
• 6:40
  I think that would have gave me peace and assurance.
• 6:43
  That's never been my experience of having somebody else guide of
• 6:47
  like I got this. It was more of a well, I think
• 6:50
  you both told each other everything.
• 6:52
  So I think we're pretty good. And so we we did our own kind of
• 6:58
  fumble through Full disclosure process, but it was very
• 7:01
  different. So I think I just want to speak
• 7:03
  to those B trade partners who that even talking about timing
• 7:08
  can feel triggering because they really need and they do need it.
• 7:14
  They need and want the information as soon as possible.
• 7:18
  Yeah. And I think we're going to
• 7:19
  address this more deeper further on down when we divide it up to
• 7:23
  each partner. But when you're saying that just
• 7:26
  the emotions, like I can feel the emotions even as we were
• 7:29
  talking and how emotional that is to want it now, need it now
• 7:33
  and deserved it yesterday. Like I get that.
• 7:37
  And it also makes me think too how important it is in the
• 7:41
  readiness to have that emotional capacity to absorb the impact of
• 7:46
  more truth. And so you rightly so, needed it
• 7:51
  yesterday. And we have to consider the
• 7:54
  impact that getting more is going to take on your body.
• 7:58
  And so being ready timing wise is so much more encompassing
• 8:05
  when you just think about the emotional piece of us.
• 8:08
  And then the other thought was dates with timing.
• 8:12
  We don't want a disclosure to also piggyback a anniversary, a
• 8:19
  birthday, a holiday, like things that you want to eventually
• 8:25
  maybe have some positive feelings about.
• 8:27
  So just more on a logistic basis around timing back came to mind
• 8:32
  also that we want to consider. Oh, for sure.
• 8:35
  And I will put out there, there are particular clients that do
• 8:40
  better in an intensive format. While that's not my typical
• 8:45
  recommendation, there's pros and cons to both.
• 8:49
  But there are couples that do better of just coming and doing
• 8:53
  a three day intensive and we do all of the same thorough
• 8:57
  process. It's just done in a condensed
• 8:59
  way. So I will just lay that out
• 9:02
  there 'cause that's not one we're really going to go in
• 9:05
  depth on because it's the same process, it's just shortened.
• 9:08
  But that is something that we do as well.
• 9:12
  The next one that I was thinking around are we ready?
• 9:16
  Am I ready? I I think the goals somewhat
• 9:20
  need to align for. The part.
• 9:24
  What are our goals? The first thing that comes to
• 9:26
  mind is if my goal as a betrayed partner is to get the
• 9:31
  information, use it against them and bail, that's not going to be
• 9:36
  helpful. That's just one idea that came
• 9:39
  to me. But what is the goal for you
• 9:45
  individually and as a couple for this therapeutic disclosure?
• 9:50
  And we need to be on the same page.
• 9:53
  Where have you seen the goals be different besides that one?
• 9:57
  I have seen couples where they their goal, one person's goal is
• 10:03
  to prove like prove to me you're sorry, prove to me you love me.
• 10:08
  Prove to me that I was the only one you ever cared about.
• 10:12
  And I just have to put out there that doing all of this doesn't
• 10:17
  prove anything. And it doesn't make that feeling
• 10:21
  of proving anything go away. And it could come from the other
• 10:24
  side, too, of one's trying to prove wanting it, prove the
• 10:29
  other's trying to prove it. And while that may be a
• 10:33
  temporary motivation, that's not going to actually move us
• 10:37
  forward in the healing process. I'll tell you a goal that I see
• 10:41
  that they actually the both people align on that's not
• 10:44
  helpful, which is OK. The goal is, is that we can do
• 10:47
  this, we can put it behind us and just not have to worry about
• 10:50
  it anymore. Or if we can get truth out this
• 10:53
  time, then we won't have to address truth in the future in
• 10:57
  the same way from a mistake standpoint.
• 11:00
  And it's more an exercise of something I've never done before
• 11:03
  that I'm going to keep doing than it is just let's get to
• 11:07
  this place so we don't worry about this anymore.
• 11:10
  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I also glad you brought that one
• 11:13
  up too. I also see a lot of unhealthy
• 11:15
  control, hyper vigilant type of behaviors creep into here as a
• 11:19
  goal. It makes sense.
• 11:21
  So I'm not discounting that. Like it totally makes sense and
• 11:23
  you might still be in that space.
• 11:25
  But I think slowing it down for each of you to realign and make
• 11:29
  sure we're not doing this out of control or justice seeking for
• 11:35
  revenge purposes or for some another way to hold or assert
• 11:39
  power and control over. That's something just to be
• 11:43
  aware of personally. And if you have someone who's
• 11:45
  trained in this can also help watch for that because I think
• 11:50
  that's harder to see in yourself, but you want to just
• 11:53
  be aware of that. So because again, the, the
• 11:56
  purpose of this is to help it move you through the into phase
• 12:01
  3 of reintegration and repair and creating a whole new
• 12:06
  relationship. So we want to try and limit, I
• 12:09
  would think, as many of these unhealthy motives to do this as
• 12:15
  possible. Yeah, And I've seen the it's not
• 12:19
  realized, but it's definitely accomplished through a healthy
• 12:22
  disclosure. Is the the shift in the, the
• 12:27
  power dynamic that he held or excuse me, the acting out
• 12:30
  partner held or a very long period of time.
• 12:35
  And I watched it come up one time with a client where he
• 12:38
  really wanted his partner. He's like, OK, I can do a Full
• 12:40
  disclosure, but can we just, can you just promise me you won't
• 12:44
  leave at the end? I can give you truth, but will
• 12:47
  you just not leave? That control that, right,
• 12:49
  There's what I'm talking about. Let me try to control the
• 12:51
  outcome, yeah. Yeah.
• 12:53
  And he's, I'm pretty sure he's, I never felt like I could do it,
• 12:56
  but I really feel like I can, if you can just promise me that you
• 12:58
  won't leave. And he phrased it probably 35
• 13:01
  different ways other than that. And I have empathy for that,
• 13:06
  that we all have those attachment drives that are hard
• 13:11
  wired in each of us that is scared to lose that primary
• 13:15
  relationship at some level. And so I have empathy for that.
• 13:20
  And as long as we are in that place of controlling the
• 13:23
  outcome, we're still in a place of manipulation at some level.
• 13:28
  Right. This one really probably could
• 13:31
  have said the at the very beginning, but safety is another
• 13:35
  another really important piece to consider when we are asking
• 13:39
  ourselves are we ready? Am I ready as an individual and
• 13:41
  are we ready as a couple? And like we've said so many
• 13:44
  times, physical safety absolutely a must.
• 13:47
  But emotional, mental, physical, sexual, like all of those
• 13:51
  different dynamics and domains in the relationship, we want to
• 13:55
  feel a sense of increased safety when we're moving towards this.
• 14:00
  This is a very vulnerable experience for both partners.
• 14:05
  How do you respond to someone who is brand new in the journey,
• 14:08
  who absolutely does not feel emotionally safe with their
• 14:12
  partner, and they're doing the Full disclosure to hopefully
• 14:15
  gain some of that emotional safety back?
• 14:18
  Now that's a really good question.
• 14:19
  And I the first thing is if there is any kind of emotional
• 14:23
  abuse, that's not safety clunkiness, OK?
• 14:28
  But that's one of the things that we've talked about that we
• 14:30
  look for specifically in the disclosure from the betraying
• 14:35
  partner is to eliminate some of that destructive language to
• 14:39
  cause further emotional harm. But if that's happening in your
• 14:42
  home on a regular basis and is not being the betraying partner
• 14:47
  is not, and I want to say stopping because it's hard, but
• 14:49
  stopping like if there's active gaslighting, blame shifting,
• 14:55
  manipulating, then we're not doing one, in my opinion.
• 14:59
  We've got to see that betraying partner has to have some
• 15:02
  significant awareness around this.
• 15:04
  I I don't know how you would trust your partner in a
• 15:06
  disclosure if that still is actively happening on such an
• 15:09
  extreme levels. Yes, there is, there is steps
• 15:15
  towards emotional safety that we're looking for and
• 15:18
  emotionally corrective experiences that we're looking
• 15:20
  for. And this provides an opportunity
• 15:22
  to rebuild more trust. But if you're still being
• 15:27
  emotionally thrown around the room, it's not OK.
• 15:33
  That's usually if I'm working with like if Luke and I are
• 15:36
  working together with these, this couple, that's when I'm
• 15:39
  like on the phone going, hey. And that's different.
• 15:44
  And I want to make this really clear to our listeners.
• 15:46
  That's different than getting triggered because I think back
• 15:50
  and when people are first going through this B trade partners
• 15:54
  can be getting triggered all day long and never feel safe.
• 15:58
  That's different. I like the verbage you used
• 16:01
  because it was very descriptive Amy of being emotionally thrown
• 16:04
  around the room. If you were, if you feel like
• 16:08
  your partner's emotionally throwing you around the room
• 16:10
  because they're gaslighting you, they're manipulating you,
• 16:13
  they're extremely defensive, they're yelling at you, they're
• 16:15
  name calling you. If those type of behaviors are
• 16:18
  actively happening, that's different than you getting
• 16:22
  triggered all day long and not feeling safe in the
• 16:24
  relationship. Yeah.
• 16:26
  Can you summarize that one more time?
• 16:28
  So what's the difference between safety when it comes to feeling
• 16:31
  triggered versus the other safety you're talking about?
• 16:33
  Could you summarize that? Both feel unsafe, right When I
• 16:38
  am feeling triggered, I feel very unsafe in the relationship.
• 16:42
  I don't know who I can trust. I don't know what's happening.
• 16:45
  My body's setting off all the alarm signals so it feels very
• 16:49
  unsafe. But when I'm being triggered,
• 16:52
  it's usually something's happening today that's
• 16:55
  triggering all of the betrayal and the stuff that's happened in
• 16:58
  the past. Yet if I'm emotionally unsafe in
• 17:03
  the relationship because you are actively again, Amy's words, I
• 17:08
  love it of emotionally throwing me around the room.
• 17:11
  You're gaslighting me, you're being defensive, you're spinning
• 17:14
  my words. I'm feeling extremely confused
• 17:17
  every time I try to explain myself when I'm clear before I
• 17:20
  talk to you, when you're name calling your actively trying to
• 17:28
  manipulate the situation or how the B trade partner sees her
• 17:32
  world and her reality. Like all of those type of
• 17:35
  behaviors are extremely emotionally unsafe.
• 17:40
  So different from feeling unsafe while I'm triggered versus
• 17:44
  there's active emotional abuse that is happening that is
• 17:49
  creating that unsafety right here and right now.
• 17:53
  Yeah. OK.
• 17:53
  Thank you. Yeah, I think you and help me
• 17:57
  with this one y'all if you could.
• 17:59
  But acting out partners that really won't do a Full
• 18:04
  disclosure anyway when they're not safe people, there's not a
• 18:06
  lot of them that are going. OK, I will submit to that
• 18:09
  process. I will do it.
• 18:11
  I think there's a few, I think there's a few of them that kind
• 18:13
  of go along. But if everybody takes a step
• 18:17
  back, you see the person that's going along that's kind of like
• 18:21
  it's. Not for the right reasons like
• 18:23
  you were about earlier. It's either to further
• 18:26
  manipulate or put on the mask of see, I'm doing all the things,
• 18:30
  checking the boxes like we've been talking about.
• 18:32
  So you're right, it does happen. I think in large part that's our
• 18:36
  job as professionals to be able to be attuned to that and slow
• 18:41
  it down and not rush into something because that's where I
• 18:43
  think a lot of times it does get missed professionally.
• 18:46
  They don't see that and then they go forward and then now we
• 18:49
  have more injury but. Let me just feel for the
• 18:53
  betrayed partner because think about that.
• 18:54
  Working with a professional that identifies like you're not in a
• 18:57
  safe environment. It doesn't make sense to do this
• 18:59
  Full disclosure. And that person's pretending to
• 19:02
  go along like they're in what they do.
• 19:04
  A lot of gaslighting and manipulating, saying I'll do it
• 19:06
  for you, but I there, I don't really, there's nothing else to
• 19:11
  share. There's active emotional abuse
• 19:13
  going on and it's happened to be stopped because it's not safe.
• 19:18
  We all three of us have been duped before by clients that
• 19:23
  like, we've been like, I don't know, like my gut's telling me
• 19:27
  something, but I have nothing to prove it.
• 19:30
  And then stuff has come out later.
• 19:32
  And I've watched other professionals who are top of the
• 19:34
  field who were being actively manipulated because some of
• 19:40
  these people who have spent their life wearing the mask are
• 19:44
  that good at wearing the mask. And so I don't want to put out
• 19:48
  there, your professional will catch it, don't you worry.
• 19:51
  We got you. Because the truth is, is that
• 19:55
  while we may have our uncomfortabilities and Amy, I
• 19:59
  know you do this well and I know I do this with my clients, that
• 20:04
  if there are red flags or uncomfortabilities, we explore
• 20:07
  them together as we're going into the Full disclosure.
• 20:11
  And so hopefully the B trade partner is going in with.
• 20:15
  As much as can be eyes wide open and listening to their own
• 20:19
  intuition. But they're.
• 20:21
  Eat them where they're at, right?
• 20:23
  We still ultimately do what our clients want.
• 20:26
  And even though we might be seeing some things and
• 20:29
  expressing them, if they want to go forward, they go forward.
• 20:31
  And so I'm glad you brought that up because, yeah, I never want
• 20:34
  to give the idea that we're foolproof.
• 20:36
  And I guess really underneath that comment too is the
• 20:40
  importance of finding people that are trained and
• 20:42
  understanding these types of behaviors because it does give
• 20:45
  you a better chance of having someone bring it up versus what
• 20:50
  a lot of us have seen when people aren't trained and
• 20:52
  educated in this. But yeah, you can't guarantee
• 20:54
  any of this. And we started this whole
• 20:57
  disclosure series with saying there is no guarantee and this
• 21:02
  isn't a check done. There's so many insurance and
• 21:05
  outs to this. And we're just like making a
• 21:07
  whole episode on emotional safety.
• 21:08
  But one thing that I just want to say, and then we'll move on.
• 21:11
  When you were talking about triggers, Alana, and when we
• 21:14
  slowed down the difference between not feeling emotionally
• 21:18
  safe because of the triggers versus active emotional abuse
• 21:21
  happening. This is also why going back to
• 21:24
  timing matters because one of the things that that I work hard
• 21:29
  with my clients is to help mitigate some of those triggers.
• 21:34
  So even though you listening might be just like Alana just
• 21:39
  validated the heck out of you with, yeah, I feel way unsafe
• 21:42
  because I'm triggered all the time.
• 21:44
  That does play into the emotional readiness.
• 21:48
  Trade. Partners, yeah, partners, we
• 21:51
  don't want to. We want to have some of that
• 21:53
  hyper vigilance, fight, fight, freeze responses, living more in
• 21:58
  and be really the coping skills to be able to get yourself in
• 22:00
  that window of tolerance that plays into the readiness.
• 22:03
  So if you are in that space, then I just wanted to say you
• 22:08
  would not be ready if you would be needing to work on some of
• 22:12
  those skills to become ready and create more of that emotional
• 22:16
  safety within your own self. So I just wanted to add that
• 22:20
  piece there. I I love that.
• 22:23
  And I'll just put, we're going to do an episode specifically on
• 22:28
  how the betraying partner prepares and how the partner who
• 22:31
  has been betrayed prepares. And we will go deeper into some
• 22:37
  of those skills that you use to get yourself ready because it's
• 22:40
  a deeper conversation. And what you just said there was
• 22:43
  so important. Amy.
• 22:45
  The next one is mutual respect. Can we just I actually would
• 22:49
  love to hear Luke. What?
• 22:51
  Because you do work more with betraying partners, I'd love to
• 22:56
  just hear you talk about what that might look like to have
• 23:00
  respect for the partner who's about ready to hear some truth.
• 23:06
  Do you mind setting us up, Amy? With what?
• 23:09
  What the what came up for you with this, this mutual respect
• 23:13
  and what you've seen? I'm just saying like how much
• 23:16
  this plays into being ready. So if we look at like them
• 23:21
  asking themselves this question, am I ready if there's no mutual
• 23:25
  respect happening in the relationship for what the other
• 23:30
  person is about the other person is experiencing and what the
• 23:34
  person who is providing the disclosure is also going
• 23:39
  through. I think that's that's AI.
• 23:42
  Look at that as a what's the word I want to use like
• 23:45
  foundation, I guess to that level three phase of healing as
• 23:50
  a couple. Yeah.
• 23:52
  So what, Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
• 23:55
  Because the, what came really strongly to me was the and the
• 23:57
  entitlement piece. I, I, I feel entitled to hold
• 24:02
  secrets. My partner, I can choose what to
• 24:05
  share with them. It's really entitlements,
• 24:09
  choosing what I share, choosing what I don't share, making
• 24:12
  choices of somebody else subconsciously or consciously.
• 24:15
  And then it's no, they're their own person having their own
• 24:17
  experience. They get to make their own
• 24:18
  choice, and I've manipulated and navigated that for so long.
• 24:23
  I'm done with that. And that's in a, that's in a
• 24:26
  good moment, right? That's in a, that's on a good
• 24:28
  day. I'm saying all that stuff.
• 24:30
  I'm sitting there with my therapist or my coach or
• 24:32
  connected to the people I'm around.
• 24:34
  But yeah, I respect that person enough to give them reality.
• 24:39
  And I also think respecting the partner's response, I'm thinking
• 24:47
  more of the betraying partner to respect the betrayed partners
• 24:51
  response to hearing truth. I think that needs to definitely
• 24:54
  be something that they need to prepare for their feelings and
• 24:58
  the results of the just. I think that's something that
• 25:02
  can be really helpful to prepare for that professionals can help
• 25:06
  you as a couple prepare for is having respect for the results
• 25:10
  that come from that disclosure. Because again, we can't predict
• 25:13
  that everyone has free will, free choice after truth comes
• 25:17
  out, what they choose to do and me moving forward.
• 25:20
  And it can help to tap into a little bit of that respect for
• 25:26
  results as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:29
  And if that's if you go in with an expectation of what this will
• 25:32
  look like, then that's pretty impossible to have.
• 25:37
  Of what? And it comes back to that,
• 25:39
  whatever you need to heal like I, I recognize that I can't
• 25:42
  determine that anymore. I do think of some of my B trade
• 25:46
  partners who do a really good job of being able to be in a
• 25:52
  place of allowing for truths to come forward, being in a place
• 25:57
  of being ready to hear. I have others who that question
• 26:02
  or like if someone says to them, hey, we need to have mutual
• 26:06
  respect. I imagine a few of you hearing
• 26:09
  this had a little flare of response to that of like, are
• 26:13
  you kidding me? Why do I need respect?
• 26:16
  They didn't respect me when they were doing ABC or D.
• 26:20
  And so just I want to speak to that part that can get activated
• 26:26
  around that of we are asking to come together in respect when
• 26:31
  clearly there wasn't respect in the relationship already.
• 26:36
  And just recognize that there are different parts.
• 26:40
  And can we access that part that does want to respect the other
• 26:45
  person as a human being and create that environment where we
• 26:49
  can heal together and notice the betrayed part that gets
• 26:53
  activated and angry. And we can notice that is my
• 26:57
  betrayal trauma. That is that part that's
• 27:00
  activated and we can make space for that and we can prepare to
• 27:04
  go through the Full disclosure being sensitive to that part.
• 27:08
  But also just recognizing that that is a part and I validate
• 27:14
  that part. I validate the feelings that
• 27:17
  come up around that absolutely. And I see a lot of the ones that
• 27:22
  do the disclosure to the majority, they are doing such
• 27:25
  amazing work respecting each other, like watching them show
• 27:29
  up and show everything that they don't want to show.
• 27:34
  And that person hears all that, the betrayed partner hears all
• 27:39
  of that. That's a form.
• 27:40
  That's a deep form of respect. That's a deep form of respect
• 27:43
  that they have listening to their partner share all of their
• 27:47
  history. Let's just call that what it is.
• 27:49
  Like they're providing space for that.
• 27:51
  And then that respected you were talking about Amy, of there's an
• 27:57
  emotional response, which there will be.
• 27:58
  I can respect that emotional response.
• 28:00
  I'm going to give space for that emotional response.
• 28:04
  Yeah. And one thing that just as
• 28:06
  Lonnie, you were talking came to mind too, that why we're
• 28:09
  bringing this up and why this is important, I think to assess
• 28:12
  readiness because I have seen clients where and I'm going to
• 28:16
  genderize because this was the particular client case I had.
• 28:19
  They had agreed to move forward with disclosure and it I was
• 28:24
  sharing this couple with a colleague and the betraying
• 28:30
  partner was actively working on putting the truth down and he
• 28:35
  was in that process. But what was happening was my
• 28:40
  client everyday she was like, what did you say?
• 28:43
  What are you doing? Answer me this question.
• 28:45
  I need to know this right now. There was no space for that
• 28:47
  partner to do the work to give her what she was asking for.
• 28:52
  And that is a lack of respect that can get in the way and harm
• 28:56
  you as a betrayed partner. And so this is also to protect
• 29:01
  you, not to force you to respect some someone that that might not
• 29:06
  deserve it right now. So I think maybe adding the
• 29:09
  language of respecting the process can maybe be less
• 29:14
  activating because if you are in that state of hyper vigilance
• 29:18
  and you are after your partner every day.
• 29:21
  And how many times have we seen that where they're getting these
• 29:25
  many discoveries, disclosures because they're hand pecking
• 29:29
  them for it 'cause you're so desperate to get that, which is
• 29:33
  understandable. But my client was coming to me
• 29:38
  more and more triggered and harmed and it's not healthy.
• 29:42
  It is not helpful. And so my job with my clients is
• 29:47
  to give them this type of feedback and help them manage
• 29:53
  themselves in a way so that they can heal.
• 29:57
  And when you are not respecting the process, then it can harm
• 30:00
  you. So I think that falls into this
• 30:03
  mutual respect as well. That's a great point.
• 30:07
  And then the other one is just addressing fears.
• 30:08
  We're going to do a whole episode on all of the fears that
• 30:11
  are most common going through this.
• 30:12
  But I just wanted to throw this in there is when you are
• 30:15
  determining whether you're ready, it does take, I think, a
• 30:19
  Herculean effort to lean into some of these fears that come
• 30:23
  with a full therapeutic disclosure on both parts.
• 30:27
  So we're going to make that a whole episode.
• 30:28
  But please just take note if you are having some fears, not
• 30:32
  addressing them, ignoring them, shrugging them or discounting
• 30:36
  and saying to yourself that you shouldn't be afraid.
• 30:38
  No, we're going to. We're going to dive into that.
• 30:41
  But it's valid and we need to address them.
• 30:44
  Yeah, when we talk about readiness, speaking to the
• 30:47
  betraying partner never feels like I'm ready, never feels that
• 30:52
  ready. Just I, I don't want it just
• 30:54
  going to feel like an end of a relationship.
• 30:57
  And it is to a certain extent. It's the end of old patterns or
• 31:00
  it's the process of starting to end old patterns.
• 31:03
  So if you find yourself listening to this going like how
• 31:05
  do I know if I'm ready but I don't how I want to be ready.
• 31:09
  That's enough to start the process.
• 31:11
  That's enough. But you don't have to know
• 31:13
  everything. I think the attempt for us doing
• 31:15
  this podcast is there's a little bit more information, but never
• 31:18
  feel ready, but just sit with a professional that can help you,
• 31:22
  that can look at that and look for things that maybe need to be
• 31:26
  tackled before diving in. But for that person, but for the
• 31:30
  betraying partner, I'm like hey, don't overthink this, just let
• 31:35
  go of the outcome. Thank you.
• 31:37
  Luke's got a hard stop, so we're going to go.
• 31:41
  Thanks, Luke. Yeah.
• 31:42
  Thank you. And yeah, Ilana, to your point,
• 31:46
  we've talked a little bit about this, but I think just I know my
• 31:49
  brain works this way of separating.
• 31:52
  OK, if I'm the betrayed partner, how will I know I'm ready versus
• 31:56
  the betraying partner? So maybe let's just flipped
• 31:59
  through some of our bullet points and for those of you who
• 32:02
  have brains like me that like to see it, we're categorized.
• 32:05
  Maybe this will help, but I think when you are the betrayed
• 32:09
  partner, how do I know I'm ready for that?
• 32:13
  We did talk about the emotional stability and safety, but this
• 32:15
  question just came to my mind. I think sometimes I see couples
• 32:20
  get to this space where they've done all the things, they've
• 32:25
  tried to do all the things, they've tried to create the, the
• 32:28
  trust or they've tried to check off boxes, right?
• 32:33
  Listen to the podcast and do all the things And I, I will hear
• 32:37
  clients just say I'm stuck or just feel like we can't move
• 32:41
  forward. And if this piece hasn't been
• 32:44
  done, I'm like, yeah, that's why you're feeling stuck.
• 32:47
  I'm going to go back to that healing pyramid that we talked
• 32:50
  about before. You might feel a little bit more
• 32:53
  trust or maybe sometimes you feel safe and sometimes not, or
• 32:57
  maybe sometimes you trust and sometimes you don't.
• 32:59
  You might get me getting percentages in some of those
• 33:01
  areas, but not really what you want or not as much as you need.
• 33:06
  And I feel like that would be a good indicator that you need it.
• 33:11
  You need this disclosure to help you get more of the safety, more
• 33:16
  of the trust, more of the vulnerability.
• 33:19
  I don't know if you have anything to say to that, but
• 33:20
  that just came to my mind. Yeah, I was just thinking, I've
• 33:24
  had different clients where I've asked questions around just what
• 33:30
  their story has entailed. And I think about when the
• 33:34
  partner who has been betrayed as well.
• 33:36
  I'm not really sure. Yeah, I don't know.
• 33:41
  And those are, while it may sound like I'm asking questions
• 33:45
  around that teen out, what I'm really exploring is their
• 33:52
  history and her story and if she knows I've been betrayed.
• 33:57
  But I don't really know how or what that exactly meant or what
• 34:00
  that entailed or how often those type of questions do leave
• 34:04
  holes. And again, we said this in past
• 34:07
  episodes. That does not mean you need
• 34:09
  every little detail, but having an understanding of your
• 34:14
  relationship and have that shared meaning is a really
• 34:20
  foundational piece of healing that shared understanding and
• 34:23
  shared meaning and then a shared plan going forward.
• 34:26
  Yeah, I would add a shared timeline because that's another
• 34:29
  thing that I feel like can as a betrayed partner can help you
• 34:34
  ascertain if you're ready for not if you're finding gaps in
• 34:37
  time of your marriage and your life information is going to
• 34:43
  help fill in some of those gaps that that that is needed.
• 34:48
  That's necessary. Again, going back to like your
• 34:50
  right of truth and right to your timeline support system.
• 34:55
  We didn't talk about this for both, but support system is a
• 34:59
  betrayed partner is an absolute must.
• 35:03
  If you're not feeling like the professional you're working with
• 35:07
  going into this disclosure, this full therapeutic disclosure does
• 35:13
  not support you, has not heard you, is not their and has your
• 35:17
  back, knows exactly what you want from this need from this,
• 35:21
  then I would highly recommend slowing down and taking a step
• 35:25
  back and re evaluating. But also not just from your
• 35:28
  professional but from people around you.
• 35:32
  Even if it's just one person that I had a client one time
• 35:35
  that actually brought her safe person with her to the
• 35:38
  disclosure and that person wasn't in the same hotel room as
• 35:44
  my client, but she was in the same hotel and was just on call
• 35:49
  because she wasn't quite sure what she was going to need right
• 35:50
  after. But she knew that if she needed
• 35:52
  someone to be physically with her, that person was ready.
• 35:55
  I thought that was so beautiful. So being able to know who that
• 36:00
  is for you, I think is really important.
• 36:02
  And this I just want to put out there this process, we highly
• 36:10
  encourage each of you to have your own support professional.
• 36:14
  There are professionals out there who will try to be 1 like
• 36:18
  it for everybody that you try to do the B trade Partners were
• 36:23
  being the partner for the B trade, being the partner for the
• 36:26
  person who has betrayed and then also trying to be the couple's
• 36:29
  therapist or couples coach. I do not recommend that in this
• 36:34
  process when you can have three separate professionals and then
• 36:40
  each person. There's so many times we've been
• 36:42
  in a Full disclosure where my person has a look to me in the
• 36:46
  eye of just like needing that anchoring and needing that
• 36:50
  reassurance. And my only job when I'm in a
• 36:53
  Full disclosure is I am fully attuned to my one client.
• 36:57
  That is where my body is pointed to.
• 36:59
  That's where my eyes are. That's where I'm checking on
• 37:01
  them. I'm worrying about them.
• 37:03
  And there's so much happening in a Full disclosure as a
• 37:07
  professional, when I know I'm fully invested in my client and
• 37:11
  I know the other professional Foley is invested in their
• 37:15
  client, and each of you are being tended to and taken care
• 37:19
  of, and then you as a couple are being tended to.
• 37:23
  It is such a beautiful process that creates so much more
• 37:26
  safety. And us as professionals, when
• 37:29
  we're working closely together, then we can really talk and
• 37:34
  navigate and make sure that we're creating this whole
• 37:38
  healing circle. I just while I know it can be
• 37:43
  done, I fully believe best practices is each person has
• 37:48
  their own support person and you have a separate person for
• 37:50
  couples. Yeah.
• 37:52
  No, I love that you brought that in there.
• 37:53
  It's so important. And then just really quickly,
• 37:56
  we'll just talk about, OK, as a betraying partner, you are the
• 38:00
  one giving the disclosure. You are giving full truth to
• 38:04
  know that you are ready. First and foremost, you've got
• 38:09
  to lean into acceptance and responsibility.
• 38:11
  That ownership is a must and your professional is going to be
• 38:16
  helping you in every piece of your truth to make sure that it
• 38:20
  comes across with full accountability, transparency,
• 38:23
  honesty, responsibility, without the blaming, without the
• 38:28
  victimizing, without blame shifting, like all of that has
• 38:31
  to be assessed. So I would say if you are not in
• 38:35
  a place as the betraying partner or you're ready to take
• 38:40
  accountability and accept the consequences of your actions,
• 38:43
  then you're not ready and keep working on being ready because
• 38:46
  that's a process. For sure.
• 38:49
  It's OK to take more time to be ready for that, but that you
• 38:52
  need to be ready for that. It's funny because there are
• 38:56
  people where it takes them years to really have acceptance and
• 39:02
  responsibility. I'm not going to make a partner
• 39:04
  wait for years, but they have to be willing to try.
• 39:09
  It's Luke's been saying, right? It's just that I'm well, what he
• 39:13
  ended with, even if you're ready and not ready, OK, I'm willing
• 39:16
  to try. OK, we'll start there.
• 39:20
  Obviously full acceptance and responsibility and
• 39:22
  accountability take time, as do rebuilding trust.
• 39:26
  But if you. And even acceptance takes a
• 39:31
  great level of awareness, and awareness comes in stages
• 39:36
  because we remove denial in stages.
• 39:38
  And so I think, and you know what I'm going to say, probably
• 39:42
  a lot of B trade partners do this, where my brain goes to
• 39:46
  what it looks like to be fully accepting and fully like owning
• 39:50
  and responsible. And so that's what my brain's
• 39:53
  like. Oh, that's what we want for Full
• 39:55
  disclosure. And yeah, that would be the
• 39:57
  ideal. And what we want is somebody who
• 40:01
  is willing to be on the path to actively be trying and working
• 40:05
  on it for wherever they are in the journey.
• 40:09
  Yeah, that word clunkiness just keeps coming to my mind, right.
• 40:12
  It's going to be clunky. The betraying partner is going
• 40:16
  to have moments usually after they've met with their
• 40:19
  professional like, OK, OK, OK. And then I'm not, I'm not.
• 40:23
  And that will hopefully increase the more work they do.
• 40:26
  But, and it might look clunky. And again, that's our process as
• 40:30
  professionals also is to help make them aware of the
• 40:34
  clunkiness in that. But willingness is a beautiful
• 40:37
  word to add to that. Which goes perfectly into the
• 40:40
  next one of preparation and commitment to the time it will
• 40:45
  take. And I was OK.
• 40:47
  This I do want to say is it takes so much time between
• 40:52
  sessions to work on full disclosures.
• 40:54
  So if you think that you'll just come to session, you'll work on
• 40:58
  it in your session and then not think about it until your next
• 41:01
  session, then it would take you forever to be prepared.
• 41:05
  There's so much work, I would even say daily work as the B
• 41:10
  train partners preparing for Full disclosure.
• 41:13
  So they have to be willing to put in that heavy lifting.
• 41:18
  You're so right. And that's where I see a lot of
• 41:21
  it fall apart is when that commitment level is not there.
• 41:25
  And it makes so much sense to my partners to see that and take it
• 41:31
  so personally that they're not, they don't see that commitment.
• 41:35
  And I just want to validate how hard that can be to see when
• 41:39
  you're hearing us say this is what it requires and you might
• 41:42
  not be seeing your partner do that course that would hurt.
• 41:46
  But it is. It is a commitment.
• 41:49
  Can I really quick just, if I can depersonalize it, and I'm
• 41:54
  going to say this and just cuz I'm going to say it doesn't mean
• 41:57
  that you're able to depersonalize it, but it feels
• 41:59
  very personal. If it's a very, if they really
• 42:03
  loved me, if yeah, if they really cared about this
• 42:07
  relationship, then they would do this.
• 42:09
  But really it goes back to the readiness for change.
• 42:13
  If they were really ready themselves to face it, to tackle
• 42:16
  it, then they would be doing it. But I just highlight that it
• 42:21
  will feel very personal. And some of our work is really
• 42:25
  separating their own choices and where they are from what that
• 42:30
  says about us or our relationship.
• 42:33
  Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm glad you left that
• 42:36
  in there. And then I would just say the
• 42:38
  long term commitment to rebuilding trust as a betraying
• 42:41
  partner like we've been saying, this is not a A1 and done.
• 42:45
  So if you're going into this process of OK, I'll commit and
• 42:49
  then OK, well you have all the truth and now you know and you
• 42:54
  should just trust me. This is the beginning of
• 42:57
  rebuilding that trust. This is the foundational layer.
• 43:02
  Remember, safety comes after this truth, not trust.
• 43:08
  So if you're going into this thinking that, OK, I'm giving
• 43:11
  you the truth now, you should trust or I deserve trust or
• 43:15
  however you're framing that I, I just want to highlight,
• 43:18
  remember, safety comes after you've given truth.
• 43:22
  There is work to still be done. We're getting on the same page
• 43:26
  with this. We've got to be on the same page
• 43:29
  as a couple, and this is getting both of you on the same freaking
• 43:33
  page. There's a house being built
• 43:36
  behind me, and they put a foundation down probably before
• 43:42
  we moved in, before our house was even built.
• 43:45
  And so that's been at least three years.
• 43:48
  That foundation sat there unbuilt on for years, and guess
• 43:54
  what? There's no home like a
• 43:56
  foundation just sitting there while it is laying down that we
• 44:01
  can build a home on top of it and it's a good foundation.
• 44:05
  It's not a home. Now, actually what was really
• 44:08
  interesting is in the last six months they restarted or maybe
• 44:13
  someone else bought it or I don't know.
• 44:14
  But then they came in and they did the framing and then after
• 44:18
  the framing they came in, did the electrical and then they did
• 44:22
  the plumbing. Actually, they probably did the
• 44:23
  plumbing first. I don't know what order they do
• 44:25
  houses in, but there was, and then they did the sheetrock and
• 44:29
  then they did the finishing and there were so many steps that
• 44:33
  actually got it ready. And then even then there was
• 44:35
  moving the furniture and then the people came in.
• 44:39
  So this is the foundation. There's no home yet on top of a
• 44:44
  foundation, but we also can't have a really secure home
• 44:47
  without a nice secure foundation.
• 44:50
  Great analogy. The last one I have on there is
• 44:52
  understanding the impact. I think again, with a lot of
• 44:55
  these, it's going to come in stages and doses because
• 45:02
  expecting or being expected to understand I think fully the
• 45:08
  impact that you as a betraying partner had with your choices
• 45:14
  would be unrealistic. And so I think, but I think a
• 45:16
  willing, we're going to just keep using that word, a
• 45:18
  willingness to understand the impact.
• 45:22
  I really want to include that one and maybe we'll wrap up
• 45:24
  there because that's a big part of the process.
• 45:27
  It's a part of the process as you will hear us talk more about
• 45:30
  later of the impact on your partner.
• 45:36
  If you want to move forward, you need to be willing to hear it.
• 45:40
  You need to be willing to take that journey into understanding
• 45:44
  it as best you can. I know all you betrayed partners
• 45:48
  want that so bad and want them to understand it so perfectly.
• 45:51
  It's a willingness and we start there.
• 45:54
  So I think if you are the betraying partner and you're
• 45:57
  wondering am I ready, I would love for you to ask yourself, am
• 46:00
  I willing to lean into understanding the impact of my
• 46:04
  choices rather than resisting avoiding?
• 46:08
  What was that? Even when it hurts.
• 46:11
  Even when it hurts. Especially so it's a sign of
• 46:17
  readiness, like we've been talking about and in our whole
• 46:20
  episode. It's OK if even listening to
• 46:23
  this, you don't know if you're ready.
• 46:27
  It's OK to take some time and listen internally and explore
• 46:33
  the fears which we're going to go into next week and take some
• 46:38
  time to explore and let all of this just sit of the what I need
• 46:44
  and what are my hesitations and where am I at and where is my
• 46:47
  partner at and exploring this with safe professionals who
• 46:52
  understand it. Yeah.
• 46:55
  So it's important, it's foundational and it's hard work
• 47:01
  and it is so worth it. Those who put in this work,
• 47:09
  those who invest in themselves and do this healing work, it is
• 47:15
  so worth it, no matter the outcome of your relationship.
• 47:18
  I was going to say no matter the outcome because we've seen it
• 47:21
  both ways and I've never once heard a regret going through it,
• 47:27
  even if the outcome isn't what they had wanted, hoped or
• 47:30
  expected. I've heard regrets from partners
• 47:33
  who weren't ready to be honest, but for my.
• 47:36
  Partners for sure, but if you are doing this for you and you
• 47:43
  go through that process authentically, even if your
• 47:48
  partner like I guess the person that specifically came to line
• 47:51
  with this, it didn't work out the way that my partner had
• 47:54
  hoped. But, and knowing that she was
• 47:57
  still lied to, it was still worth it to her because she knew
• 48:05
  the process and the reality that her partner would do that
• 48:11
  through that process helped her feel more secure in her
• 48:16
  decision, in her next step forward.
• 48:18
  So she didn't. It didn't turn out the way she
• 48:20
  hoped, but she didn't credit. Yeah, In Doctor Skinner's book
• 48:25
  Treating Trauma from Sexual Betrayal, he gives some
• 48:27
  statistics on full disclosures, and I believe the number was 94%
• 48:34
  after doing Full disclosure. We're grateful they went through
• 48:37
  that process, which is a huge percentage.
• 48:40
  As always, thank you for hanging out with us this week.
• 48:43
  Thanks for learning more about full disclosures.
• 48:46
  Next week, we'll dive more into the addressing fears and
• 48:50
  preparing for Full disclosure. So as always, thanks for hanging
• 48:53
  out with us this week and we look forward to seeing you all
• 48:56
  next week. Hi, this is Hallie Roderick with
• 48:59
  Choose Recovery Services. And I wanted to tell you a
• 49:02
  little bit about our upcoming Courage to Thrive Intensive that
• 49:06
  we'll be hosting in Spanish Fork, UT on October 23rd through
• 49:09
  the 26th. If you're a woman who's
• 49:11
  experienced betrayal trauma, we would invite you to consider
• 49:15
  joining us in Spanish Fork. It's a beautiful time to be in
• 49:18
  Utah. The fall leaves are coming, and
• 49:20
  it's a great opportunity for you to take the next steps forward
• 49:23
  in wherever you're at in your healing journey.
• 49:26
  At these intensives, we like to create opportunities for you to
• 49:29
  actually experience healing and not just learn about it.
• 49:34
  So we'll be addressing the topics of healthy boundaries,
• 49:38
  learning to rebuild trust in yourself and others.
• 49:41
  We'll take a look at grief and how it shows up in betrayal,
• 49:44
  trauma, and so many more things. We also have some opportunities
• 49:48
  for you to experience some somatic healing because we all
• 49:51
  know that trauma effects our physical bodies as well.
• 49:55
  So if you're in a place where you want some additional
• 49:58
  support, taking the next step forward in your healing journey,
• 50:01
  please check our show notes For more information on how to
• 50:04
  register for the upcoming intensive.
• 50:06
  And I hope to see you in Spanish work on October 23rd.
• 50:13
  Hey, thanks for joining us today.
• 50:14
  If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
• 50:17
  with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
• 50:20
  chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
• 50:24
  what we can do is set up a quick conversation we need.
• 50:26
  Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
• 50:29
  unmask the outline itself.