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“When they Cuomo, we go high.” · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: On today's show, we'll talk about how Republicans are failing
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: to stop Biden's COVID relief bill, even though Democrats might
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: not get everything they want. We'll take a look at
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: the school reopening debate, talk about why New York State
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: underreported the number of COVID deaths in its nursing homes,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: and Tommy interviews Georgia State Representative Bea Wynn about her
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: fight against a new round of voter suppression legislation from Republicans. Lovett,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: tell us about the show this weekend.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Emily Heller.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: Jason Concepcion, Megan Gailey. I talked to Adam Grant about
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: his book on persuasion. I talked to Alicia Garza on
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: the protest in the Biden administration. We played a bachelor game.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: It's one of my favorite episodes in a while, John.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Cool. Very cool. Also, if you haven't, check out what
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a day is making black history episode from Friday. The
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: team put together a fantastic montage of black men and
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: women who just became the first in a variety of
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: fields and what it means to them. There are more
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: of these coming out over the course of Black History Month,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: so subscribe to What A Day and check it out.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: All right, let's get to the news. Joe Biden's $ 1. 9
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: trillion American Rescue Plan is moving. House Democrats introduced their
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: version of the plan on Friday and hope to pass
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: it by the end of this week. It includes all
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the president's priorities, $ 1, 400 checks, a $ 400 per week expansion
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: of unemployment insurance, money to speed up vaccinations, open schools safely,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: save state and local jobs like teachers and first responders,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and an increase in the federal minimum wage to $ 15
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: per hour. In the spirit of bipartisanship and compromise, House
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Republican leaders responded by urging all of their members to
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: vote no on what they're calling the Payoff to Progressives Act. Cool.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: First, the Republicans tried complaining that the bill wasn't unifying
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and bipartisan. Then they tried to pretend that they care
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: about the deficit again, said it was too expensive. Now
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: they're calling it payoff to progressives. The plan is still
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: one of the most popular pieces of legislation in years,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: maybe decades. 70% of Americans support it. Why do you
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: think the usually very effective Republican propaganda machine has yet
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: to dent the support for the bill?
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: So it is extremely popular. Our poll with Change found
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: that it has 69% support, nice, but also 39% report
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: among Republicans. You mentioned 70%. That's what the Times found today.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: It's gone up over the last months. It went from
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: 59% to over 70% in the Times poll. There was
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: a write-up in the poll, and I thought there was
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: a paragraph that I thought was.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Understated about their challenge here, right? Republican pushback is complicated
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: by the pandemic's ongoing economic pain with millions of Americans
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: still out of work and the recovery slowing. It is
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: also hampered by the fact that many of the lawmakers
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: objecting to Mr. Biden's proposals supported similar provisions, including direct
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: checks to individuals while Mr. Trump was president. So there's
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: still a huge economic crisis. it's popular and they all
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: supported this stuff before. So I think they've tried a
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: couple of things. I think what is striking about going
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: to this progressive bailout language is it doesn't feel like
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: it's an argument for the country at all. It feels
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: like now they're just talking to their own members and
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: trying to keep as many defections down because they've clearly
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: lost the public relations fight on the actual bill itself.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: So I think they're just trying to try to make
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: this as painful as possible for any Republicans, especially in
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: the House, that might bail and join with Democrats to
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: vote for it.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And Tommy, I mean, there may be a few
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: defections because like, isn't it at this point, like politically
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: stupid for Republicans to oppose this bill? So much of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the discussion over the last few weeks has been Biden
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and Biden's need and the Democrats need to find Republicans
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: or else it's politically damaging for them. But like how,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: how politically wise is it to oppose a bill that
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: 70% of people support?
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, if I'm a statewide elected official or in
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: a moderate district, I would want to be for this.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's the answer to your question. Is it
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: politically stupid to oppose this bill? I I think unequivocally, yes.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that the bill is going to be,
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: you know, the number one issue in the midterms in
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: 2022 or some like silver bullet politically for Biden. But
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: I'm very confident that everyone in the country wants the
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: pandemic gone. Everybody. They want to get vaccinated. They want
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: schools open. They want economic relief if they're out of work.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Like this is basic stuff. And like Lovett was saying,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, the arguments against the bill are either whining
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: about unity or whining about the bill being too big,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: or now they boil down to some sort of version
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: of this money is going to liberals and liberal states
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: and you hate liberals more than you want help. And
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: it's not working, right? I mean, 75% of independents like
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: the bill, 40% of Republicans support the bill in the
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: New York Times poll. I would want to find a
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: way to be for this. And I think, you know,
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: Republicans are really showing their colors here after all this
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: crying about if they're whipping against the bill, calling it
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: like a progressive bailout or a blue state bailout, right?
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: It's like very shallow stuff.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: There's also been a lot of parallels to 2009 in
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: the Recovery Act over the last several weeks. The big
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: difference here is in 2009, we were staring into a
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: very uncertain future and that even if the Recovery Act passed,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: we had no idea where the bottom was in the
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: economic crisis and when the economy would fully recover. The
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: difference now is now that we have the vaccines and
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: economic projections are looking so far, fingers crossed, like quite
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: good for the end of the year and into next year.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: And so if Republicans want to be against a bill
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: that passes soon, after like, you know, and we're all
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: sitting here in late 2021 or 2022, and the pandemic
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: is much more under control and the economy is back,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: it does seem like it is a much bigger risk
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: than being against the Recovery Act in 2009.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd also just say too, you know, even if
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: you take, if you are as, you are so generous,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: generous beyond reason on this progressive bailout, soundbite and say, well,
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: what do they mean? They mean they're against state and
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: local aid because they believe some of it will go
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: to cover budget shortfalls for blue states that had problems
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: before the pandemic. The issue of state and local aid
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: is still popular. It's not like you pull off one
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: of these issues that they're trying to drive home and
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: you find something where there's some weak underbelly of the bill.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: Up and down, the major pieces of the bill are
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: popular from top to bottom.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, also, Florida is going to get a check.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Texas is going to get a check. They're all going
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to get the check. They're all going to get like
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: people like their state and local government. Yeah, they're they're
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: going to get their checks. They're going to get their
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: unemployment insurance. They're going to get their state and local
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: government funding. All the red states get it. All the
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: people who voted for Trump get it, too. It's fucking absurd.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: So with most Republicans opposed in Congress this closely divided,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: just about every Democrat has to support the plan for
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: it to pass. One place where that might be a
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: problem is the 15 dollar minimum wage increase. The L.A.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Times reports that Senator Joe Manchin said he wants a
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: smaller increase, such as $ 11. And Senator Kyrsten Sinema said
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: she doesn't believe the minimum wage is appropriate to pass
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: through the 51-vote threshold budget reconciliation process. Budget Committee Chairman
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders disagrees. and said that he's, quote, confident that
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the Senate parliamentarian will advise next week that we can
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: raise the minimum wage through the reconciliation process. Tommy, how
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: do you think that Biden should be handling this issue?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Because he has now said both that he doesn't think
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: the parliamentarian will rule in our favor on a minimum
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: wage and that he's willing to compromise on the size
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: of the increase.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it does seem like he's trying to
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: do a little bit of expectation setting when it comes
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: to the minimum wage piece of this. And as you said,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: he's got two problems. The first is this procedural matter
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: where this random parliamentarian gets to decide if the minimum
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: wage can pass as part of the reconciliation process because,
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: you know, he will decide whether it impacts the budget.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: And then the second piece is getting votes from Joe
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema because Manchin thinks 15 bucks is
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: too much and Sinema thinks it's inappropriate. to pass in reconciliation.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: I think if I were Biden, I would do a
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: little bit less talking out loud about expectations or how
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: the parliamentarian may or may not score it. I would
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: focus on why it's important to get done, why people
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: desperately need an increase in minimum wage, why the minimum
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: wage is not a living wage in most states. I mean, there's,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I guess, a bigger message you could make about how
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: it's ludicrous that the U.S. Senate is so broken and
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: that this random parliamentarian gets to make a decision this big.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: The good news is that Bernie Sanders is confident that
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: it can be part of reconciliation. He's made the point
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: that opening up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for oil
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: and gas exploration was part of a reconciliation package. And
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: this clearly has a bigger impact on the budget than
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: that did. So, you know, but I would just, in
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: terms of messaging, I would just focus on the need
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: and why, you know, this is long overdue, frankly. Yeah,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I kind of think I agree with Tommy on this,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: that he should be sort of get caught fighting for this.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And if Manchin and Sinema want to be the ones
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: to sink it or potentially other Democratic senators, like then
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: make sure people know that they're the ones sinking it,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: not you, the president, who is the one who put
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: it in your package in the first place.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, so there's three things. So Manchin has a policy,
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: it seems little to do with the parliamentarian.
• 9:57
  Speaker 6: He has a policy opposition to going to 15. right?
• 10:00
  Speaker 6: And it seems like there's some negotiation there.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: Sinema has two objections, right? One of them is around,
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: she has said she doesn't want to go against the parliamentarian.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: And then she has another objection, which is she doesn't
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: know that it's totally germane to this and shouldn't be
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: because it's not in the spirit of unity, a good
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: idea to include it when it's not part of COVID. Now,
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: the parliamentarian piece, I think, she's been definitive about in
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: the sense of saying, I won't basically undo the filibuster
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: for any of this to get this in. If the
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: parliamentarian objects, she has not been as definitive on whether
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: she would vote against the package. And I find it
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: hard to believe she would oppose a minimum wage increase
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: she would support, but for the.
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: Fact that it's in the wrong bill, I think that
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: that's strange.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: So regardless- I agree.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: I think some of the expectation setting, though, might be
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: if you look at where this is heading, Bernie is
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: extremely bullish on it getting into the package. Manchin seems
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: like he would fight to get it to be a
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: lower number. I think if Biden is basically setting the
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: expectation on, I'm not sure we can get any minimum
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: wage done, and then they land at somewhere between where
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: we are now, which is $ 7. 25 and $ 15, I do
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: think it's important to be able to declare raising the
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: minimum wage for the first time in so many years
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: of victory, even if Joe Manchin gets it lowered. So
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: I agree on the thinking out loud, but a little
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: bit of like, hey, if we get to a minimum
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: wage increase, which is incredibly difficult under these circumstances, there'll
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: be a lot of people angry that it's not 15.
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, it would have been a
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: Herculean achievement under the circumstances.
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, it seems very clear that the chances of
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: us getting a $ 15 minimum wage increase right now are
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: very low because Joe Manchin has been very clear that
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want it at 15 and we need his
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: vote or we don't get it. So the question, so
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: then if you're Biden and the Biden administration and Schumer
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: and everyone else, you go to Manchin and say, okay,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: if it's ruled that it can be part of reconciliation,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: what does it take to get you to yes? Do
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: we delay the increase longer? Do we make it, you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: a lower federal minimum wage in some states like Virginia,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: where the cost of living is lower than in California
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: and New York, where $ 15 doesn't get you as much
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: as it does in maybe West Virginia. So like you
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: got to figure out if there's room for compromise. But
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I do think at this point, it's hard to see
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: a $ 15 minimum wage passing as is if Manchin is
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: so opposed. One place where Manchin is definitely causing problems
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: for the Democrats is with Neera Tanden. The senator said
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: he's opposing her nomination for director of the Office of
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Management and Budget, because she sent some mean tweets, which
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: he said would have a, quote, toxic and detrimental impact
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: on her relationship with Congress. He framed his decision as a, quote,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: meaningful step to end the political division and dysfunction that
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: pervades our politics. This morning, Senators Collins and Romney also
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: came out against Neera's nomination, leaving her without many options
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: for the 50 votes she needs. Mean tweets, guys. Tommy,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: why do you think Manchin did this? And what happens now?
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: It's completely ludicrous. I mean, just one note on people
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: who want to impact Joe Manchin's vote on the minimum wage.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Reverend William Barber, his Poor People's Campaign has been organizing
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: rallies in West Virginia with folks who would benefit from
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: a minimum wage increase. So that's one way to actually
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: impact politics in West Virginia. Why Joe Manchin has drawn
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: the line on mean tweets, I don't know. Maybe I'm
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: just being, this cuts close to home as a guy
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: who sends mean tweets, but I believe in freedom of speech.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I believe that there's a lot to criticize in Washington.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Like if he has a substantive critique of Neera's qualifications
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: or her policy views or her work at the Center
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: for American Progress, that would be one thing. That's a
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: conversation that they could have. But I mean, you have
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: members of Congress who are vicious and dishonest and cruel
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: and do cruel things all day long. and prioritize their
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: own political futures over a good policy. And what this
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: vote to me says is you can't criticize us or
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: you can't advance in Washington. And I think that is
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: total bullshit. You know, I think that like the message
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: this sends to anyone who wants to climb the ranks
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: in DC is shut up and, you know, never, you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: color outside the lines or speak honestly. I mean, I
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: think it's a terrible, terrible precedent.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you won't see any of us at a confirmation
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: hearing in Washington for a number of reasons. But one
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of them is definitely because of the mean tweets that
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: we've sent.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Honestly, that's been the hardest part of the past couple
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: of days is just watching my own confirmation chances swirl
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: down the drain.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little... I would also.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Joe Manchin voted to confirm Jeff Sessions, who was denied
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: a federal judgeship for being a fucking racist.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Like this is- Rick Grinnell. Rick Grinnell.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Fucking Rick Grinnell.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Twitter troll.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: So like it's beyond absurd.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: Like criticizing Neera Tanden on substantive grounds, denying it over
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: tweets is bullshit. I don't presume to understand Joe Manchin's motivations,
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: what he's trying to project. Again, I say that as
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: one of the biggest Joe Manchin fans in the world.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: And I don't ever want.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: That to go unnoticed.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to take that away from you at all.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: But there's a little bit of like, it's obviously very
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: high stakes in terms of, you know, the Biden administration
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: not wanting to get pushed around.
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: It's high stakes for Neera Tanden.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: But like, clearly, like people like Joe Manchin saying that
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: Neera Tanden should not be confirmed. People like Hugh Hewitt
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: writing that she should be confirmed. It's sort of like
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: almost like a free chance to demonstrate some kind of
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: bona fides in one direction or another when you know
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: that Ultimately, the ideological stakes.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Are very low.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: We know the Biden general position that's going to come
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: out of ONB. It's true whether or not it's Neurotandin
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: or some of the others that have been floated like
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: Gene Sperling.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Others.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: So, you know, I do think it's really hypocritical and
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: despicable that a Senate may not be able to confirm something,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: you know, when the previous president was a monster tweeting
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: like crazy all the time. And a lot of those
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: no votes will come from on the basis of tweets
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: from the people who supported Donald Trump for years.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Who supported Donald Trump and pretended to never see those tweets.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: One of the things that really annoyed me most about
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: about this is Susan Collins saying that she doesn't necessarily,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that Neera doesn't necessarily have the experience to run OMB.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Of course, Neera has the experience to run OMB. She's
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: had high level positions in the government. She's run the
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Center for American Progress. Again, you can take issue with
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: her positions on certain issues, if you would like, that's
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: completely fair. The idea that she doesn't have the experience
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: is fucking bullshit.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: This is but it is the perfect cancel culture like
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: anger story. Right. Because all like the Republicans who go
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: on TV all day and get really mad about cancel
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: culture are almost never impacted by the actual event they're
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: mad about.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Like all the people on Fox News angry about and
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: mocking the San Francisco school board. don't live in San
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Francisco and don't send their kids to public school there
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: and thus will not be impacted by the names of
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: said schools. But they want to find and seek out
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: and highlight these issues to get people mad about them.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And it's a ridiculous waste of time.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, long term here, I think, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: by the time we record this, it could be over.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: But I think, you know, the White House said they're
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: pushing ahead on Neera's nomination. Um, I guess you could
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: still get, she could get Murkowski's vote. She needs one
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Republican vote now if Manchin's a no. So I guess
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: you look at Murkowski. I don't know who you start
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: looking at beyond that unless someone does something. Kind of wild.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Like another Bill Cassidy moment, right? I don't know.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: But by the way, actually totally plausible.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Again, it could be withdrawn by the time this is out.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: But I also, first of all, fight for the posters.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Fight for the right to post. Honestly, we want people
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: in government who grab a glass of Chardonnay at 11 p.m.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: and start arguing with people that have no pictures with
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: their faces.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: We want that. Fight for freedom of speech? Are we
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: for freedom of speech or not? It's so frustrating. Everyone
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: is for freedom of speech until it hurts their feelings.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I, and I will say that if we, if,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: if near is pulled and we end up with like
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Jean Sperling, uh, you know, that is another outstanding progressive
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: to be in that role was very experienced and, you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: like long-term big picture for the future of the Biden administration,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the Biden agenda, it will be okay. but it is
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: fucking bullshit that it.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Is coming to us.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Bullshit.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Nira, fight for Nira. Hey, I want every Red Rose
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: out there to fight for the right to post.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: But this is about shit posting.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: First thing came for Neera Tanden's tweets.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: This isn't about the federal budget. This is about shit posting.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: First thing came for Neera Tanden's tweets, but I did
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: not speak up. I supported Bernie in the primaries.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: If any speech should be acceptable in almost any circumstances,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: it's criticism of powerful elected officials. You know what I mean?
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: It's like... Any chilling of free speech of elected officials
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: is a real, real problem. This is not like getting mad.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: This isn't Tom Cotton going on Fox News being mad
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: about the Muppets being edited, right? He's going to vote
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: down someone who was critical of his colleagues because he's
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: pissy about it.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to go on record as saying I
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: am not standing up for the San Francisco school board, though.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Some of that shit is crazy.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, sure. Like I look, I totally agree. But
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: it's like, why is it national news? Because a bunch
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: of Republicans sought it out because they wanted to lift
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: it up and get people mad about it. Right. Like
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: that's why this whole conversation gets so exhausting.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: This is it is it's you're totally right. Like they
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: they pick something. That is annoying or sounds silly and
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: they lift it up to put it on the same
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: plane as much larger, more consequential debates.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And it is fucking absurd. all right let's move on
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to the debate over reopening schools speaking of schools uh
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: president biden said last week that his goal is to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: have grades k through eight open five days a week
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: by the end of april Currently, an estimated 60% of
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: students aren't attending in-person classes full time, either fully remote
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: or hybrid. The Biden administration has been saying that passing
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the American Rescue Plan would help schools reopen safely by
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: funding physical distancing, testing, contact tracing, and ventilation. Vaccinations would
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: also help. The challenge there is that as of now,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: educators are only on the priority list in 28 states.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: And as Dr. Fauci told me on Thursday's episode, the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: timeline for vaccinating children is probably sometime this fall. Republican
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: strategists are looking to exploit parents' frustration, of course they are,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: by blaming school closures on Democrats and teachers' unions. One
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: former House Republican official told the New York Times, quote,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: school closures have radicalized suburban mothers for the last six months.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Let's start, Tommy, with how much power and influence does
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: the federal government have when it comes to reopening schools?
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Very little. The federal government has very little authority when
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: it comes to pushing for school reopenings. A lot of
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: the control is local. What Biden can do is fight
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: for his COVID relief package to get passed because that
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: has $ 130 billion in it that will be used to
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: safeguard K-12 schools. And it's also what the teachers unions
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: are pointing to in saying, hey, this needs to happen
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: to make these schools safe for everybody before we can
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: go back in. Biden can also, you know, his messaging
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: can be powerful. They can use the bully pulpit to
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: make the case for schools to reopen, to talk about
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: why it's important. He can also, you know, just handle
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: COVID better than Trump did, right? That will make it
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: safe to reopen schools at some point. But in terms
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: of when it comes to forcing schools to be open,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: the president has very, very little power.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, love it. So the federal government, you know,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: does offer guidelines on how to safely reopen schools through
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the CDC, which has recommended that at least partial remote
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: learning wherever there's high community transmission of the virus, a
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: category which currently includes most of the country. So it
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: is tricky for the Biden administration here. And I sort
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: of get, digging into this debate, you sort of get
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: why there's been, you know, the press calls that mix messaging.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's more like some nuanced messages, partly because
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: of the CDC guidelines, like Biden campaigned on a promise
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to follow the science on COVID and So if the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: science or the CDC is saying, well, if you're in
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: a high transmission area, we wouldn't recommend you opening unless
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: you can adhere to really strict guidelines. Is there anything
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: the Biden administration can really do to push schools to
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: go faster than the CDC recommends?
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: So, first of all, it's yes, it's it's extremely important.
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: Complicated.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: It matters how old the kids are.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: And by the way, saying that 90% of schools shouldn't
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: fully reopen is different than saying most schools should have
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: some form of partial in school, partial at home, different
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: for K-8 than 9-12, different depending on the community transmission.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: So I think it's a really difficult issue. I will say,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: as I was just reading and prepping for this conversation,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: I found myself more and more angry about the last
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: year and just the lost year that we had. Because
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: I would say, first of all, there was just an
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: absence of leadership. Just words to express sympathy and support
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: about the difficulty of this situation. What we got out
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: of the past president was just like, schools must reopen
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: with no guidance, no leadership. Betsy DeVos was at her
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: fucking lake house. So it was a despicable abdication of
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: leadership that caused a lot of this. And then, you know,
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: There's been this effort, I think, on the part of
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: some Republicans to make this about parents versus teachers unions.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: And I think teachers unions are also local. And there's
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: been incredible variation in terms of what they've done, in
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: terms of what they've called for. The other piece of
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: this is that for parents, for teachers, for everybody, there's
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: no great outcome here. The Times looked at what happened
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: in Rhode Island when they reopened schools. Incredibly difficult. A
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: lot of sacrifices. You look at places where schools aren't open.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: Kids falling behind and having mental health difficulties. Parents, especially moms,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: have had to stay home or give up jobs. It's
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: a horrible issue. And so you see that in the
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: polling where it's like, should schools reopen safely? Of course
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: people say yes. Are you worried about your kids going
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: back to school? Of course they said yes. Are schools safe?
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: Should schools reopen?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Kind of reopen? Yes. Not reopen?
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: Like parents, everybody is all over the place because there's
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: no great answer. But like, giving money to help make
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: sure schools can do testing, ventilation, making sure there's masking,
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: making sure that you're setting up protocols so that kids
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: can stay in groups, that like the way you divide
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: children changes. I mean, this is what Raj Shah, who
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: is head of USAID, and Randy Weingarten, who's the head
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: of the AFT, the union, basically have written up what
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: we need to do to get schools to reopen safely.
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: It's just, it takes money.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: It takes incredibly sophisticated and thoughtful planning, and it just
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: hasn't been there. And now we're almost in March. Even
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: if you pass Biden's plan, when is that money going
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: to be able to make a difference?
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: So I think they.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Should try very hard to get teachers vaccinated, put these
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: plans in place, do safe school reopenings. But in reality,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: I think we're still looking at trying to do as
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: much as you can before the end of this year,
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: but making sure schools are open in the fall. I
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: think that's the reality.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I think what gets lost in this discussion is that
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Almost everyone is in agreement that remote learning is bad
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't work well. Like I have several family
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: members who are teachers and they have described to me
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: the process of teaching children remotely. And in some of
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: these school districts, the hybrid learning where some kids go
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: in and some are, and it is a disaster. It
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: is hard to do it. The students aren't developing well academically.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: They're not developing well emotionally. It's not easy for teachers
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: to do these lessons. They don't like it. The parents
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: obviously don't like it. The administrators don't like it. Like
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: everyone is in agreement that kids should be in school
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: attending in-person classes. Of course, there are trade-offs and there
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: are risks. And the reason it's not easy is because
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: you can say both two things can be true. That
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: remote learning is bad for children and that there are
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: risks to both children and teachers involved. for being in
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: schools when there is a deadly virus running around out there.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So like it is a fraught, difficult issue. I do
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: think that so far the messaging has been we want
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: schools to open, right? They want to be on the
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: side of schools opening. And I think trying to say
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: we want to give schools and teachers and children every
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: resource possible and available to make sure that the schools
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: can open safely is sort of the best position to hold.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: And again, it's not just a question of resources, though
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: it certainly is. A lot of this comes down to
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: trust and to feeling that your kids are going to
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: be safe when they're in school. And if you're a teacher,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: that you're going to be safe when you go to school.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And because the messaging has been so mixed and because
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: there's been such a lack of leadership from the Trump
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: administration over the last year, it's going to take some
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: real time to sort of rebuild that trust just around
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: the messaging of what's safe and what's not.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's also just so many different equities here, right?
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, like teachers obviously want to feel safe in
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: the classroom. Parents want their kids to go back to school,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: but they also don't want their kids coming home with
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: the coronavirus and getting them sick. So like everyone's got
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: a different vantage point. There's a lot we could do
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: right now to make schools safer, right? Universal masking. You
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: group kids and teachers into stable groups that don't change
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: so that if one person gets the virus, only a
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: limited number of people are exposed. They need schools need
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: better ventilation. That could be open windows. It can be
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: HVAC units. And then you just need like lots and
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: lots of testing, including asymptomatic testing for kids, for students,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: for teachers to spot these outbreaks. But like what I
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: guess I don't totally understand is why teachers weren't a
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: priority 1A when it came to vaccination in every states.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: I think something like 28 states teachers can get vaccinated
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: right now. But like, for example, here in L.A. County,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: teachers are in the 1B tier, which means starting in March,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: 10% of COVID vaccinations will go to teachers. So the
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: 1A was healthcare workers. But for example, I went to
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: the dermatologist last week. Everyone in that office had been vaccinated.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I'm glad they were. I agree they should have been vaccinated.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: But those aren't healthcare workers who are treating COVID patients
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: and thus needed to get vaccinated, right? So if the
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: priority was opening schools right away and making sure the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: environment was as safe as humanly possible, I would imagine
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: you would just want to make vaccinations available to every
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: teacher on day one, right? Like sometimes this tiering that
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: we do, I think, can get in the way of
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: even our own priorities.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with that, Tommy. I mean, I think
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: for the states that do not have teachers on the
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: priority list as of today, they should do it immediately.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And I think the federal government, while Joe Biden and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: the federal government can't force the states to put teachers
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: on the priority list right now, they can certainly talk
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: about it a lot. They can use the bully pulpit.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris said this last week. Joe Biden has said it.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Fauci said it to me. Teachers should be a priority
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: right now. If you are a teacher, you should be
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: able to get a vaccine immediately. Now, where there has
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: been some confusion is because Fauci and the CDC also
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: said it's not a requirement for every single teacher to
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: be vaccinated for schools to reopen. And, you know, what
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: he said to me is basically I think that's that's
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: a question of demand, too.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Like if there are some teachers who don't want the
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: vaccine or don't get the vaccine, like you can't hold
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: out to open schools. because some people, you know, don't
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: want to get it. But it should be available to
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: every teacher, certainly.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: We will look back on this period and we will
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: find it abhorrent that we open bars, but not schools.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: We should have done everything in our power over the
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: previous year to get the transmission rate low enough so
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: that schools should have been first. not last, they should
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: have been first. And as more and more evidence has
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: come in, as we see that kids can get it
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: and they can transmit it, though not as much, and
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: that as you get older, the Times has done a
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: great reporting on this, that the older the kids get,
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: the more they look and transmit like adults. It's not
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: perfect in places that have open schools. It's not gone
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: very well in Rhode Island. It's not gone particularly well.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: You read about it. It's incredibly stressful for the teachers.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: Teachers and staff have gotten sick. Schools are open and
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: closed and open again. That wreaks havoc on the parents
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: trying to figure out their own work schedules. There's no
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: good options here, but Tommy pointed out to the four
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: steps that Um, like even the teachers unions have gotten
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: behind and it is incredible that we haven't been able, uh,
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: as a country to rally enough resources to get those
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: things done. Because one thing that they have found is
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: the places that have done that, that have been able
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: to take those steps, keep the kids apart, keep them masked,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: keep them in stable cohorts, do the testing, do the tracing, uh,
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: do the masking.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: It works. It works.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: It has kept the kids safe and has made it
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: possible for them to get an education.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So the question is like, how did Biden, you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: we just had this conversation that, you know, we all
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: decided is a very nuanced, difficult debate, which is like
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: a bullseye for Republican demagoguery. Any kind of nuanced, complicated
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: discussion about a policy issue. So how did Biden and
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the Democrats and teachers union sort of handle the political
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: challenge from Republicans on this issue? Because they are really
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: amping up their criticism on this.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: I'll say just one thing, which is we shouldn't be cowed.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Like the idea that there's some radicalization going on that like, oh, there's,
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't see any of that at any polling.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: What I see in polling is that everyone understands this conflict,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: that there is a sense of that there are trade-offs here,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: that nobody has perfect answers. So my view on this
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: is like, just acknowledge the difficulty and set up, like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: I think basically what Biden is saying, we want schools
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: to be open. We want, uh, uh, to follow the
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: science and make sure it's done safely. We want teachers
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: to be vaccinated. We want kids back in the classroom
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: as soon as possible for as much of the week
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: as possible. And I think as long as they're reflecting
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: the difficulty of the debate and the trade-offs and what
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: parents are going through, kids are going through, teachers are
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: going through, I think that's all you can do.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Tommy, what about you? What about you?
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, the first thing I would say is if
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: you want schools to reopen, then vote for the COVID
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: relief bill. And if you refuse to do that, and
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: if you refuse to give the hundred plus billion dollars
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: that schools need to retrofit and be safe, then you're
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: not really serious here. I also do think like politically speaking,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: this may feel like an acute short-term issue, but if
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: But if cases keep going down as they are, if
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: we're all vaccinated by the end of the summer, you know,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: I do think just handling COVID generally solves this school question.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: And you can, you know, you can manage the problem.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it is incredibly cynical.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: No, it's what you said at the beginning, Tommy, which
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: is like, It's just like when we would always say,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you know, the best Biden would always say during the campaign,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: best way to open the economy again is to fight
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the pandemic and to get the pandemic under control. It's
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: also the best way to open schools again. If the
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: CDC is saying that schools can open for in-person attendance
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: where transmission rates are low, then. Get the transmission rates low.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: And the way to do that is to vaccinate everyone
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: as fast as possible.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: So this could be this could be a problem that
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: gets that gets solved by the by the summer and fall.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: And I think that the messaging is so far the
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: messaging is right. Like Sean Patrick Maloney, the House member
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: who's running the DCCC this year, said, you know, you're
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: going to see an area after area. The Republican attempts
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: to exploit frustrations while the Democratic Party addresses those frustrations
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: with real solutions. That was sort of his message about
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: the Republican campaign. attack on schools. And then I think even,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: you know, the teachers unions, Randy Weigarten said, like, if
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the NFL could figure out how to do this in
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: terms of testing and the protocols, then we should be
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: able to do it too. My members want it. They
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: just want to be safe.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Which I think is sort of the right side to
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: be on.
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Like, I just don't get why vaccines aren't at least
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: available to every single teacher. I mean, in 27, 2018,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that school year, there were 3.5 million full and part-time
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: public school teachers in the United States. That's not that many.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not saying they all could get vaccinated
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: right now, but they all should have the vaccine available
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: to them right now. If we're saying that this is
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: absolutely critical and that we need them vaccinated to reopen schools,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: then we should vaccinate them in the same way we've
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: decided that the dermatologist's office is absolutely critical and therefore
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: all of them should be vaccinated so that office can
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: be open safely. In the same way, the dentist, everyone
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: in a dentist's office is vaccinated because dental care is critical.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: We just need to prioritize education in the same way
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: that we have healthcare. I think that seems entirely appropriate.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally agree. Last story for today. The Wall Street
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Journal reported last week that federal prosecutors in the Eastern
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: District of New York are investigating how Governor Andrew Cuomo's
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: administration handled the pandemic in the state's nursing home after
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: New York Attorney General Letitia James released a report that
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: said the state's Department of Health published data that undercounted
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: the number of COVID-related nursing home deaths by as much
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: as 50%. This comes on top of the criticism Cuomo
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: has received for a March health department directive that said
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: nursing homes couldn't refuse to admit a resident who came
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: back from hospitalization and had still tested positive for COVID-19. Lovett,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: what is the Cuomo administration's side of the story here?
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And how well do you think it holds up?
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Well, there's It seems like their defense is twofold.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: On the communications front, they're saying they never failed to
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: communicate any deaths, but that they were just referring to
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: people who died in hospitals versus people who died in
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: nursing homes, and that they were worried about Trump misinformation,
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: misusing their data. And then on the actual outcomes of this,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: in terms of the nursing home deaths that took place
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: in New York, I don't know what their explanation is
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: other than They were moving quickly to make a bunch
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: of very difficult decisions in an unprecedented pandemic.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Tommy, it seems like, you know, the
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Cuomo administration says, OK, well, on the decision to, you know,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: tell nursing homes that they have to admit patients, even
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: if they're COVID positive, back from the hospital. They say, OK, well,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: that was the CDC guidance at the time. Other states
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: like Florida did it as well. You know, you can
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: argue about the merits of that decision, but it does
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: seem like withholding data about nursing home deaths and then
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: trying to not count them as deaths just because the
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: person died in the hospital, even though they were originated
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: at a nursing home. So you don't count it as
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: a nursing home death anymore. just because the place that
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: the person actually died was in the hospital and not
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: the nursing home, seems pretty bad to withhold that data. Yeah.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, this does seem very bad. So in terms
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: of disclosing the data to the legislature, this Cuomo aide
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: who was recorded on a conference call talking about this
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: issue said that basically they got an inquiry from the
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: legislature about nursing home data, and then they got one
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: from the Department of Justice. And they decided to prioritize
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: responding to the inquiry from the Department of Justice first.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: And then they also argued that, you know, the data
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: sets they had were inconsistent, they took a while to
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: clean up, etc. I mean, I do think that like,
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: any criticism of New York's handling of COVID does have
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: to be viewed in the context of them getting hit first,
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: getting hit the hardest, like, you know, it laid bare
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: just how unprepared the entire country was. to manage COVID
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: because if you look at Tish James' report on nursing
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: home deaths, it talks about the lack of PPE and
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: how that put residents at risk. It talks about the
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: lack of testing and screening and how that there wasn't
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: enough training for staff, right? And it's found that bad
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: nursing homes had more fatalities, like all things you would expect.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: All that said, I can't understand any excuse to withhold
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: this data, to screw around with numbers this way. I mean,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: it seems completely inexcusable it's good that the Tish Jame,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: the attorney general's office, has put out a report despite
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: also being a Democrat, right? Like there's no cover up
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: by the party here. There's just something weird happened in
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Cuomo's office. So we're getting to the bottom of what happened,
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: but it looked extremely bad. Yeah.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And so like, you know, there's sort of three parts
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: to this story. There's the original directive about nursing homes,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: and you can debate that policy choice that was CDC
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: guidance at the time. Then there's the sort of misreporting,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: underreporting of the data, the withholding of the data from
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: the DOJ and from the public and from the state
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: legislature when they asked for it. And then the third
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: part is, you know, Assemblyman Ron Kim in the New
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: York state legislature told the New York Post that the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Cuomo administration needs to show contrition to the public and
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the families of people who died in nursing homes. He
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: said that to the Post in response to those comments.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Kim says that Cuomo called him and threatened to destroy him.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Do you think that episode will be included in the
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: paperback version of Cuomo's American crisis leadership lessons from the
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: COVID-19 pandemic?
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: No. with an expanded epilogue, you know, in an unprecedented pandemic,
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: there will be mistakes. There will be mistakes that look
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: avoidable in hindsight. There's a lot of things they got right.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: There were going to be a lot of things they
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: got wrong. We were learning about this virus in real time.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: But I do think that this moment is sort of
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: an acute, like Cuomo has had a reputation for a
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: long time of being a bully, of being vindictive, of
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: being a bare knuckles fighter, whatever would be the euphemism
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: that would be in a report. He also then set
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: himself up as a hero in this crisis, as a
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: leader in this crisis.
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: He wrote a book about it.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Um, and the combination of this scandal and the scandal
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: exposing some of his bullying tactics in the past on
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: top of him, I think getting over his skis and
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: deciding to declare victory over the pandemic in the middle
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: of the pandemic is, it looks very, very bad. It
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: just all comes together to look extremely, um, foolish.
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, to look to Tommy's point, like
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: there are some, because the federal response was so bad
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: and because New York was hit first and hit so hard.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: You can't really completely fault the state's leaders, Cuomo included,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: for how bad things were. At the same time, you
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: can't try to take all this praise and write a
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: book about leadership when you know that things haven't gone
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: perfectly and that some are the reason that that the, uh,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: that things got better in New York is because the
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: wave hit so hard and so early, right? Like, it's like,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: if you don't want all the blame, you also can't
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: try to take all the credit. Yeah.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: I also will say too, like, uh, you know, this
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: is true of, of, of, of Gavin Newsom in California
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: as well in that I do like that does not
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: detract from the, I think, the important role these governors
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: played in being more honest communicators about the seriousness of
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: the pandemic being about, you know, rejecting the downplaying of
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: the pandemic that Trump was putting forward through the entire
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: time he was in office during the pandemic. And I
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: do think that that was important. And I do think
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: that that played a role in this image that I
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: think has been, you know, undermined, to say the least,
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: by what's come out in the last few days about
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: the nursing home deaths.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I do think it's a lesson that so
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: far the Biden administration is heeding, which is like in
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: a pandemic, there's going to be bad news. There's going
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to be failures at times. You just got to be
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: honest and you got to communicate with people constantly. And
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: you got to have to make sure that that communication
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: is honest. And then when you make a mistake, you've
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: got to own up to the mistake, right?
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: And that's the irony here, right? Because like New York
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: got hit hard and hit early and the fatalities were
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: awful and the situation was bad. But what Cuomo got
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: credit for was holding these daily televised press conferences where
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: it seemed like he was communicating rationally and clearly in
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: a way that was a stark contrast to Trump. And
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: then if you go on and withhold very important data
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: sets and act like it doesn't really matter that you
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: did so because a death is a death, you undercut
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: your entire argument for why your leadership was good.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: And you.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: you do so in a way where you look pretty callous.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's a big problem.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Before we go, this was obviously a very serious story,
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: but it has led to some reporting about Cuomo's bullying tactics.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: And there was one anecdote that did make me laugh.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: And in this difficult time, it's important. Apparently there was
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: some kind of a list for people who don't get
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: yelled at. and this was in the Times piece, State
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: Senator Liz Krueger, a Democrat from Upper Manhattan who holds
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: sway in the legislature, et cetera, never been yelled at
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: by the governor for a reason. She said, Joseph Pococco,
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: a former aide, said she was on the do not
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: yell at list. I responded, you people have such a list?
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: He said, it's very small.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Mr.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: Pococco is in federal prison and could not be reached
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: for comment.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: A do not yell at list is so good. Yeah.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: I just like the little touch of they couldn't get
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: him because he's in prison.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: That's all I had.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you talk to people who've worked
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: for him, who've worked for him for years. Like, yeah,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: that's the reputation he has. He's an asshole. People say
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: that all the time.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: It's not great.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: OK, when we come back, we will have Tommy's interview
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: with Georgia state representative B.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Wynn.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: We are very excited today to talk to our guest,
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Bee Wen. She's a member of the Georgia House of
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Representatives and represents a district in the Atlanta area that
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: was once represented by friend of the pod, Stacey Abrams. Bee,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for doing the show.
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me on.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: And that is my piece of street cred because most
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: of the time people are very uninterested that I'm a
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: state rep until I tell them, well, I have the
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: seat that Stacey Abrams had before she decided to run
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: for governor.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: It means you are already doing and destined for great
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: things is the takeaway here. So we wanted to talk
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: with you today because there's a growing conversation about voter
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: suppression in the wake of the 2020 election. And Georgia, unfortunately,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: is at the center of it. Republicans in Georgia have
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: introduced a sweeping voter suppression bill. in response to their
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: election losses in November and then again in January. Can
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: you fill us in on some of the specific things
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: that this piece of legislation would do?
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: So I do want to start off by saying this.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: In the past four sessions that I've served in the
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Georgia General Assembly, I have seen bills related to voter
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: suppression every single year. And obviously the country has seen
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: the long lines here in Georgia, sometimes spanning up to
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: 11 hours for people who are waiting in line to
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: cast a ballot. And we saw a lot of the
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: voter suppression manifest itself in 2018. And so this is
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: not new to Georgia, though this year it is more
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: aggressive than it has been in the past because of
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: the results of the 2020 election and then the two U.S.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Senate runoff seats in 2021. So Republicans dropped a 48-page
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: omnibus bill sort of encompassing all of these things that
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: they've been talking about for the past year and the
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: past several years. And so it does a number of
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: things that would be damaging to both local election boards
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and to voters. So to begin with, I'll highlight some
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: of the top liners. One, it restricts local election boards
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: from receiving any kind of grant funding in 2020. there
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: was grant funding that all local election boards could apply
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: for to make up for some of the added financial
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: costs of running elections in a pandemic and running an
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: election with unprecedented turnout. And so that restriction would take
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: money away from election boards and Thus far, we haven't
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: seen the Secretary of State commit to allocating more funds.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: The messaging behind that is it's a liberal organization specifically
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: targeting certain counties and giving them liberal money. But we
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: see that Republican counties have also received those grant fundings
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: and they.
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: Have been given the discretion to use them in a
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: way that supports all voters.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: So some of the things were new equipment, PPE, and
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: hazard pay for their workers. Two, there's a massive attack
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: on absentee ballots, which Republicans have been planting that seed
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: prior to the results of the June primary, prior to
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: the results of the November and January elections.
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: The messaging around absentee.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Ballots is that it opens the door or it is
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: right for fraud that we have actual no evidence as
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: it pertains to absentee ballots being insecure. In fact, the
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: audit in Cobb County showed that out of 15,000 ballots,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: two came back, but they were both valid legal voters.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: One was a wife who signed the ballot for her husband,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: which is understandable. I think in a lot of situations,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: family members say, oh, go ahead and sign it for
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: me without understanding the full implication of the law. And
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: the second ballot was somebody who signed on the front
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: of the.
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: Ballot versus the back of the ballot.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: And so the restrictions around absentee ballot voting are related
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: to showing ID. When you apply to vote in Georgia,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: when you apply for registration, you already have to show
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: a form of ID. One of the reasons absentee ballot
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: voting is so successful for older voters, for rural voters,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: for people who basically don't have access to internet, smartphones, printers,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: is that that information is already stored with election boards
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: and the Secretary of State. And so the new provision
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: would require somebody to enter in a driver's license number
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: or a valid state ID number. And if they don't
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: have those things, then they have to make a copy
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: of an ID and send it in the mail, which
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: also I think is disconcerting to voters for security reasons,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: because we know that voter fraud isn't an issue in Georgia,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: but identity theft certainly is an issue. There is an
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: attack on secure drop boxes. This is probably one of
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: the most absurd pieces of the legislation. We successfully implemented
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: secure drop boxes in most of our counties, especially our
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: metro counties. And those drop boxes already have regulations around them.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: They have to be monitored 24-7 by video surveillance. They
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: have to be bolted to the ground. They have to
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: be on government property. ADA is accessible everywhere. and election
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: boards have to.
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: Empty them at least once a day.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: In this bill, those secure drop boxes can only be
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: located at early voting locations inside the building and only
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: during the hours in which the early voting location is open.
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: That means if you are a worker who.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Works in non-traditional hours like many workers do, you would
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: have to go between 7 and 7.
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: Or whenever the hours are for that specific day.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: The convenience of the secure drop boxes were also so
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: that people would not have to go inside and expose
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: themselves further to other people. So the other piece of
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: that is election boards invested a lot of money in
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: these drop boxes, and now they are going to potentially
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: see all of those financial benefits investments being wasted. And
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: in testimony last week, all the election directors that testified
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: said that they liked the drop boxes and voters liked
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: the drop boxes as well.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: There is also a.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Provision that would no longer allow a voter who came
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: to the wrong precinct but was in the right county
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: to cast a provisional ballot. That would automatically throw out
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: a significant number of valid ballots. The example that I
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: like to give is on election day in November, I
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: was a poll monitor, and the precinct that I monitored
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: was also an early voting location. So voters thought that
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: it would also be open to everybody on election day.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And so they came to this early voting location to
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: cast their ballot.
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: They were in the right county. They cast their ballots provisionally.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: And those are automatically cured at the end of the
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: night by elections boards. And so In that particular precinct,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: there were probably about 600 people who voted in person.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Over half of those were provisional ballots. That means automatically
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: 300 people in just one precinct in one of our
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: largest counties, their ballots would not have counted even though
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: they are legitimate voters. So those are a few of
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: the things on the table in this 48-page omnibus bill.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Seems wildly complicated and solving a problem that doesn't exist.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: What communities do you think would be the most impacted
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: by this bill if it passed?
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, I actually forgot as you're asking me about the
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: community issue. One of the most blatant things in this
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: is the prohibition of local election boards to expand weekend
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: voting and to eliminate Sunday voting altogether.
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: So in 2020, over 70,000 voters voted on Sunday and.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Of those 70,000, over 36% were Black Georgians. So the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: elimination of souls to the polls is directly targeted at
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Black voters who turned out in unprecedented numbers. So it
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: will be.
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: Black voters, older voters, rural voters, and then people who.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Simply just can't make it to the polls because of
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: the demands of their job.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: What argument are Republicans putting forward for eliminating Sunday voting? Like, well, like...
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: let's pretend they're acting in good faith for five seconds.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: What is the argument there?
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: There is none.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: They have been very, I think, smart and strategic not
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: to address that specific portion. And so when they're talking
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: about this bill, a lot of their focus is around
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: absentee ballot and alleged fraud or just one single incident
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: of fraud being a justification for changing these laws.
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: And so they.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Haven't had a response to Sunday voting. It is just
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: so blatantly obvious that it is targeted towards souls to
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: the polls, that I'm not sure that they will be
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: able to come up with a reason as to why
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: eliminating Sunday voting improves election security or elections integrity in
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: any way.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: You're absolutely right that, you know, we have seen a
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: number of voter suppression bills before. It had a huge
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: impact on Stacey Abrams' race in 2018. But one of
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: the reasons we wanted to talk about this specific bill
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: today is because It is advancing this lie that the
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: election was stolen from Donald Trump, that our elections are
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: no longer trustworthy, and we suspect that that will be
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: perpetuated in lots of states that are controlled by Republicans
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: as part of a broader voter suppression effort. You have
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: spent more time than most people have or possibly could
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: trying to disprove that lie, going through voter rolls. How
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: effective is that effort to correct the disinformation And how
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: much damage do you think has been done to Georgians'
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: faith in the voting process?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: You know, they have repeated this lie so many times
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: and they not only repeating the lie, but allow misinformation
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: to go unchecked. So in the committee hearings in which
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani and Trump's team came in, there were so
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: many instances of lies and misinformation and Republicans were silent,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: knowing that what was being said by witnesses in these
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: committee hearings was not true.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: And in some cases, they weren't even controversial.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: It is true that it is legal for both parties
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: to have a ballot curing program.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: It's not disputable. It is in our state law.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: And so the fact that they were unwilling to speak
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: up at any point in that committee meeting just to
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: correct some of the information, the fact that we had
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: members sign on to the Texas lawsuit knowing that the
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: election was not stolen, And the fact that they continue
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: to allow all of this to go on, it is
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: really challenging to undo. Because we know if you hear
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: a lie a certain number of times, people begin to
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: believe it. But what they're doing is a disservice to
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: their voters. And we saw that with the January election
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: in which Our voters were enthusiastic.
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: We turned out. People were excited to vote.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: When I was a poll monitor in DeKalb County on
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: that day, I talked to both Republican and Democratic voters.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Republican voters were angry. They were very angry, but they
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: were not angry at Democrats. They were angry at their
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: own party. They were reluctant to vote. They felt like
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: their vote didn't count or it didn't matter. In fact,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I had to help a Republican woman look up her
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: vote on the Secretary of State website to show her
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: that it did count. And she did leave after that,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: but she had pulled up in her car just yelling
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and angry. So I think that it has done irreparable harm.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: We saw violence towards our election workers, threats towards our
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: election workers. And we see massive pressure from Republican constituents
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: to fix something.
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: That wasn't broken in the first place.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that some of this stuff is going
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: to come back and bite them in the butt because
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: the bill that passed no excuse absentee ballot voting in
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: 2005 was passed by Republicans to turn out rural voters.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: So some of this stuff is going to suppress their
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: own votes.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: So, you know, part of why we're having this conversation
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: today is these voter suppression efforts are happening in dozens
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: of states. And a lot of people are looking to
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: the U.S. Congress for help. There's a bill before the
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Senate and House, there's H.R. 1 and S. 1, that
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: would do a whole bunch of things to help prevent
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: voter suppression efforts like this, like what's happening in Georgia,
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: from happening. How would H.R. 1 impact Georgia's ability to
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: fight back against this voter suppression law?
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: Look, we have been, you know, banking on winning these
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: two U.S. Senate seats.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: And one of those reasons is because we need to
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: have a Federal Voting Rights Act that can act as
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: a safeguard against some of the things that we're seeing
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: in the state legislature. And specifically, the preclearance provision, I
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: assume that that would be restored and protect some of
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: the things that are going to get passed in the
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: state of Georgia. But HR1 also does a lot of
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: things that we've been proactively trying to do in the
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: state of Georgia, such as same-day voter registration, such as
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: codifying the ability to use secure dropboxes to use absentee
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: ballots with no excuses. So it is extremely critical that
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Congress passes H.R. 1 because what we're looking at in
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: the state of Georgia with this omnibus bill is something
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: that is going to have a devastating impact on voter
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: turnout in the state of Georgia. But also it is
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: taking us back to a time in which people are
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: having to fight for the right to vote again. And
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I think somebody said it best when they said, this
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: is Jim Crow in a suit.
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: It is Jim Crow in a suit.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: And when we think about the history of this country,
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: it was founded on the premise that the only people
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: who could vote were white men who owned land. And
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: if we think about what is happening now, it looks
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: like those restrictions are going back to a place where
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Republicans believe in the severe limitations of who should be
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: allowed to vote. It's gone as far as a Republican
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: woman who served in the legislature a couple years ago
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: suggesting that there ought to be an education level associated
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: with the ability to vote. Basically, a literacy test. And
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: so we're in a really dangerous place as we begin
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: to see that voters of color are coalescing and building
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: these broad-based coalitions so that we can see policies that
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: change our lives in a meaningful and positive way. And
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: so I think we're in a really dangerous place in
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: the state of Georgia. We need Congress to act and
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: to act swiftly because these election laws are not just
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: related to voting and elections, but it will fundamentally change
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: so many things in our state. Um, and then we
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: have redistricting coming up as well. And some of those
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: things pertaining to redistricting are also covered, um, in both
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: the HR one and, um, the companion bill.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Well, we got to get rid of that filibuster and
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: got to pass those bills. Uh, B-Win, thank you so
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: much for doing the show. Thanks for all you're doing
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: to raise awareness about this and to fight back on
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: these voter suppression efforts. It is ugly stuff. And we
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: really appreciate your wisdom today.
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me on. Thanks for all y'all do.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Thanks to Representative B-Win for joining us today. And we
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: will talk to you guys later. Pod Save America is
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed and edited
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou, Caroline Rustin, and
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Elijah Cohn, Narmal Konian, Yale Freed, and Milo Kim, who
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: film and upload these episodes as videos every week.